Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was Set Up by an Undercover ATF Agent — Then Sent to Federal Prison | Kyle Farace

Episode Date: July 13, 2025

Kyle Farace grew up with a normal life—until he found out his dad was secretly growing and selling weed. What started as a curiosity turned into a full-blown operation, with Kyle eventually joining forces with his father. But everything changed when he got set up by a confidential informant and an undercover ATF agent, leading to drug and gun charges and a 3-year federal prison sentence. Kyle believes his own father may have had a hand in the setup. In this raw interview, he shares how prison changed him, the hustles that kept him going inside, and the struggle to rebuild life after getting out. #FederalPrisonStory #ATFStingOperation #PrisonHustles #WeedOperationGoneWrong #FatherSonBetrayal #CISetup #DrugAndGunCharges #LockedInPodcast Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Kyle Farace: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kyle_farace/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kyle.farace.7 Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00:00 Kyle's Unexpected Arrest 00:04:30 Teenage Years and Feeling Like an Outcast 00:09:36 Discovering the Family Secret Business 00:19:27 Legal vs. Illegal Gun Sales 00:24:07 Unexpected Arrest and Federal Involvement 00:28:36 Legal Advice on Facing Federal Trials 00:33:15 Life Before Self-Surrender 00:38:12 Creative Prison Hustles: From Pockets to Mattresses 00:42:44 Prison Life and Commissary Stories 00:47:11 Challenges of Dating Post-Incarceration 00:52:00 Friendship and Support During Prison 00:57:19 Unexpected Tattoo Expenses 01:02:08 Life Changes After Prison 01:07:48 Commissary Practices and Potential Scams 01:10:32 Creative Prison Cooking Ideas 01:14:23 Birthday Wishes and Sally's Pizza Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Come out of the apartment building, and there's usually traffic and I step out the front door, I'm like, damn, there's no cars on the road this morning. I was like, this is weird. And I start walking out to my car and I just hear a bunch of people

yelling my name and get on the ground. And I look back and there's a bunch of people running at me with guns. Kyle Ferrisi had a normal upbringing until he discovered his dad was secretly growing and selling weed. What started as curiosity turned into a full-blown operation with Kyle eventually teaming up with his father. But it all came crashing down when he got set up by a confidential informant and an undercover ATF agent, busted for pot and guns. Sentenced to three years at federal prison at just 25, Kyle believes his own father may have played a role in his downfall. From prison hustles to struggling with reentry, this is a story of how Kyle lost it all and found a way to rebuild.

Kyle, welcome to Lockton, man. Happy birthday, first off. Appreciate you having me here. Yeah, I appreciate you coming on your birthday, man. That's so cool. You could have picked any other day and you picked it at your birthday. But the real reason is you're coming for Connecticut pizza. Yep. Absolutely. Sally's.

Yeah, so I'm just a secondary option. Even though I'm trying to get you over to Stanziados. No, can't do it. I'm a Sally's guy. Yeah. I still have yet to try Sally's. I got to try Sally's. You got to do it.

I know. I'm slacking. It'll change your life. So you came today from where? I live in, I have a house in Saxons River, Vermont, southern Vermont, super small, quiet town. Yeah, it was like a two and a half hour drive maybe. Is that where you grew up?

Yeah, I grew up in southern Vermont, like smack dab, right in the middle of five major ski resorts. I was born in New Haven, Connecticut, lived in West Haven until I was six, and then it started to get bad. So my parents moved my sister and I up to Vermont. And there was your mom, your dad, you and your sister? Yeah, and then once we got to Vermont, my parents had another sister, another baby. So I have two younger sisters. Okay, so there's three total. What did your parents do for work?

My mom didn't really work too much. My dad did plumbing and heating. Owned his own business? Down the road he did, yeah. He worked for a fuel company, and after everything I went through, I got pinched. He started his own business. Why did they move out of New Haven to Vermont?

I think the crime was getting really bad. It's not like it was back in the day. It's nicer now. I don't know. A little bit nicer. I don't know. Like I remember growing up, we'd go down to the beach, watch the old men play botchy on, you know, on Long Island Sound, right on the beach.

It's not like that anymore. I feel like Bridgeport's the worst of the two. Oh, yeah, bridge ports a show. Yeah, it's kind of a dump out of the two of them. But New Haven, I mean, it's like the college vibe. They have certain towns you can hop around and stuff. My court case was out of New Haven. That's where I went to court on Church Street. Mine was out of Hartford. Out of Hartford. Yeah. Hartford's pretty gnarly, too. Yeah, I stopped one time at the Hartford Court during transit, like from court when I got my bond revoked and I had to sit in the Hartford courthouse for a little bit. And then my probation was out of Bridgeport Courthouse. My lawyers were out of New Haven. Okay. Who do you have for your attorney? It was Conway and Red Law Furn. So I had Glenn Conway and Susan Red.

I had John Einahorn. I don't know if you're familiar with him. They actually grew up in West Haven. And he was a commissioner, I think, a police commissioner at one point. And yeah, his dad was a lawyer, too, long line. I wonder if your family knows them at all. They probably do. Yeah.

Both of my parents grew up in New Haven. It would have been funny if we had the same lawyer. Yeah, I don't know. What was Vermont, like, growing up for you? once you move there. Boring. Really boring. It was like high school was small.

My elementary school, it was three of us that graduated sixth grade. And, yeah, it was just like you make your own fun. So it's, you know, you're bound to get in trouble. You know, you get bored. Yeah, it was tough. It was tough. But the older you get and you're still there, you appreciate the slowness of it, you know. It's just quiet.

How would people describe you as a kid? An asshole. Really? Yeah, I was a jerk. You might be the first person that self-describe those self-as-that. I was a jerk in high school, but I'm a good dude now. Why do you say you were a jerk? High school was really clicky, you know, so it was like my buddy who's out in the lobby now,

and it was like me, him, and a couple other close friends. It was just us that hung. and I don't know, it was tough. It was just, yeah, I don't know. It was really hard. It was hard. Did you feel like an outcast? Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. I feel like normally the outcasts aren't really the jerks. I hung with, like, all the dudes that skated. Like, we all went skateboarding, you know, and we just treated everybody else like garbage. You were a skater guy, huh? Yeah. And you don't strike me as a skater.

Not anymore. I can't afford to get hurt. You look more like a biker now. No. I can see you as a biker. No, it was, I don't know, it was tough, but you appreciate it. When you were a kid in high school, did you have dreams of what you were going to do in the future? I wanted to make a million dollars by the time I was 30, and I was on track, but it wasn't legit.

I just got caught up in some stuff my dad was doing. doing and the rest was history. When does this start? Is it in high school? It was, no, not in high school. I started to notice like all the toys we were getting, like snowmobiles, four-wheelers, all this stuff, driveway paved, hot tub, in-ground swimming pool, all this shit that nobody else had in town. I was like, what the fuck? Like, my dad's the only one working, you know, and he's working for a fuel company.

You can't be making that much money. And then I found out what he was really doing, you know, behind the scenes. So then I started doing it without him knowing. You know, it was growing weed, selling weed. How did you first find out? I was mowing his lawn. I used to go up and help him because he worked, you know, he worked all day long, went up to his house to mow the lawn.

And I saw like a beaten down path in the, in the bushes on the side of the property. And I was like, what the fuck is that? So I walk out there and there's like these huge fucking marijuana plants. So I was like, shit. Like that's how he's getting money. So I did it the next year I started doing it and made a decent chunk of money. And then the following year we did it together and made a lot of money and quit my job.

Well, I lost my job in 2008. I had a really cool job out of high school working for a design. firm and uh i was making the m tv movie awards the sb awards nickelodeon blames all that stuff and when the economy tanked i was like shit like i'm gonna start doing doing what my dad's doing so we started doing that together and uh that's when i got uh that's when i got picked up never wanted to go to college no i never wanted to go to college so yeah you were able to get a good job without college. I had a great job.

Yeah, I always felt like it was about connections, you know? It wasn't about, I never felt like I needed a, like a diploma. I didn't need a degree. Was that common among your friends, or were you kind of the odd one out for that? I have one close friend that went to school. He went out to USC for film, and he's still out there now. But yeah, I think he was the only. one that went to school out of our little circle.

So you discover your dad growing pot. That was at your family's house, like where you were, you guys were all living together. I had moved out after high school. I graduated, got my own place. So you didn't discover until after high school? After high school. But I noticed all the stuff that we were getting, you know, growing up at the house. I was like, how is, that's impossible.

How many plants are we talking about? Is it like a whole field or? Him? I don't know. maybe 20 or so, but when we did it together, hundreds. Is 20 a lot? Like, what does 20 amount to? It depends on how good you are at it.

You can grow a pound of plant easy. But, yeah, when we did it together, we made a decent amount of money, and we split everything 50-50. So if we grew 100, if we grew 100 pounds, split it 50-50, I can make, you know, quarter a million. And that's back when you can sell it for,

4,800 a pound. So you see the plants. Do you confront your dad about it? I confronted my mom. That's the same day. I didn't grow up smoking weed. I didn't know what it looked like. And I was like, I kind of had an idea what it was when I saw it.

Because it was like a garden out in the middle of the woods, you know. What did she say to you when you confronted her? She asked me where I found it. She didn't even know. She had no idea how your dad was making was funny. So did she confront your dad after you confronted her? Yeah, I guess. And nothing came of it because it still became a thing.

And he never said anything to you that day. No. So how do you go off on your own to start selling it? I got some seeds the next year. And I just, I grew them in the house until the following spring and put him out and made a little bit of money. and we ended up talking about it and that's when we started doing it together. How did you learn how to grow it on your own?

Trial and error. There was no... It's a weed. You can throw it out. You don't really have to do much. And, you know, after everything was harvested, it was just money in the bank. And he dealt with his people. I dealt with my people.

and by then I had three places that I was living at. I had an apartment in Holyoke, Massachusetts, because I was dating a girl who was going to school down there, and I had two apartments in Vermont. And my dad needed me to be his middleman to go meet people down in Hartford, and that's my time, I'll jump all over the place. That's where I come in. So you start selling on your own after that year when you start growing it.

Yeah. How long does that last for? Not long at all. Until I got rid of everything? Yeah, or just like what the dynamics of the business were before you linked with your dad to start selling. How did you operate it on your own? Just close friends from the skate part. Everyone smoked weed.

I never did. I knew everybody else did. And I moved what a little bit of weed I had grown. And that was that And this was while you were doing your design job. Yep. Yep. And you knew nothing about selling weed at all.

You never did weed in high school. You're just, are you making mistakes? No, I was doing it right, I think. Until I linked up with my dad. Tell us about how that comes about. We just ended up talking about it one day. And just decided to do it together the next year. but do it like really big.

And that year, it was really successful. And then it was the following year, he had ended up getting involved with some people that I didn't know. And that's how I ended up getting pinched. But what's a conversation like? Are you guys just at breakfast one day? It actually was at breakfast. Okay.

Because I used to drive up to my mom and dad's house at five in the morning and have breakfast with my dad and his breakfast with my dad and his. best friend and my mom. My mom would cook us all breakfast. And then we'd all go our separate ways, go to work. And we ended up shooting the shit about it over breakfast. And he just proposes the idea to start working together? Yeah. And what's your reaction? Hell yeah. I didn't, I wasn't tight with my dad growing up. So it was more like an acceptance thing. Did he ever tell you how he got into it? Like how does he go from plumber to a pot dealer? I never know. I never know. There's a lot of stuff I still don't know. I really don't know. Did your sisters know about this? They knew I was doing it because

my youngest sister was stealing weed from me and taking it to school and selling it in school. And then I'd have cash stacked in my closet and I had cash missing and shit. That was the youngest of the, okay. And when you guys had that breakfast and to talk about selling, did your mom know of your new arrangement? Yeah. and she was just casual with it she you know she wasn't all for it she was against it but I mean I was an adult there's nothing she could do

so you guys start this business arrangement how does it work who's doing what and how are you guys moving around we both put in the same amount of work it was just bust your ass in the springtime dig holes out in the woods it was all like guerrilla gardens up on top of mountains and shit um

we'd both put in the work digging the holes, hauling, hauling soil out into the woods, taking care of the plants during the summer, and then we'd both trim them in the fall. And how much are you growing? What are you? About 100 pounds dried. Not a lot compared to some people, but back then, to me, that was a lot. And what's a return on that?

So we'd split at 50-50, so I'd make between 200 and 250,000 and 250,000. Because you're selling it for $4,500 a pound. About $4,800. $4,800.000. Yeah, you obviously get a deal if you were buying a pound at a time, but if you're buying an ounce, that's $300 an ounce. And you're making that every season? Yeah.

I only did it for three seasons. Okay. The third season, I got arrested. And that's all cash? All cash. And where are you guys storing the cash? I was just putting it in the bank a little bit at a time. And then spending a lot, the girl I was dating at the time.

time, we'd go and stay in Mexico. I'd go out to California, went to Florida. Yeah, it was all over the place. And it was just like extravagant dinners. I'd cook dinners, everything. Did you guys have employees in this field? Or is it just you too? It was just us. As far as I know, on my side, it was just me. So were you able to still work your job or that was done by that point when you guys teamed up? When we teamed up, I had gotten laid off, and that was 2008. So it didn't really matter to me. I lost my job because I had this illegitimate income, you know. And how old were you at the time?

21. 21. How old was your dad at the time? Maybe 58? I don't even know how old he is today. At Serena and Lily, every piece is designed to make your home feel beautifully lived in. Since 2003, they've done. created heirloom quality furniture and decor using natural materials,

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on now. Fly nonstop round trip to Fiji from just 748 or enjoy a sunny Fiji stopover on your way to Australia with roundtrip fairs starting from 839. As a one world alliance member and American Airlines Advantage program partner, your miles go further across the South Pacific. Book now at Fiji Airways.com or contact your local travel agent. Conditions apply. Did you guys have conversations about, you know, this being illegal and worrying about ramifications if someone got caught, what that was. would look like. Yeah, I mean, now it's like a slap on the wrist, basically, but back then, yeah, it's a big deal. Were you guys taking precautions at all? I was. He wasn't? No, you, no, it was more like a bragging thing, dude. That's how, um, he got involved with, uh, he got involved with the CI and, um, introduced me to him while I was living in, in Holyoke.

and I had moved all of my shit already. I didn't have anything left. And my dad had a hard time getting rid of his stuff because he didn't know nobody. So he met this dude, introduced me to him, and, you know, he told this guy that I was going to meet up with him down in Hartford because the guy was from Connecticut,

and I would do pickups for my dad, you know, drop off and pick up money. Were you unhappy with the way your dad was running the operation? Like was there tension? There wasn't tension because I felt accepted by him, you know? And then one day I went to meet up with that CI and there was another guy with him. And that guy asked me if I had any hardware I wanted to sell him. I was like, you know, what are you talking about? Like power tools?

And he's like, no, like guns. And I was like, fuck, dude. Like, yeah, I've got a gun in the car right now. But I'm not going to sell it to you. And he's like, oh, well, can you get me this? Da, da, da, da, da. And I was like, yeah, I could. And then I went home.

He hit me up a few days later. Asked me if I can get him certain things. And I did. What kind of guns did you get him? Two AK-47s, a Mac 11. Breda 9mm, and there was something else, I think, a 38. How did you have connections to get guns?

Vermont, it was like, I grew up with guns. You know, my dad and I both hunted, and there was a gun shop just over the bridge in New Hampshire. And I was 21, so I could legally buy guns. My background was clean. And these were guns that I owned. I wasn't going out and buying guns. just to pick them up for this guy, you know.

And that, you know, they made it out to be like I was making these straw purchases, which I wasn't. I had every, I had all the receipts, everything. So these were illegal guns, not ghost guns or anything like that? No, they were totally legal. Did you wonder what this guy wanted the guns for? Yeah, he told me. He said he was a felon and he was in a motorcycle club and he couldn't buy guns. and that didn't strike any red flags with you

it did after the fact I feel like an idiot talking about it but like yeah it was fucking stupid dude it was all been there before were you gonna make a good profit on it no I wasn't making any money off of them so what were you doing just to make your I thought I was like

I don't know man I thought I was like living this movie lifestyle and it was just dumb dude really stupid idea so the CI to get this in order. The CI brings him to the meat.

Yeah, he was an undercover for the ATF out of Hartford. So there's the CI and the undercover agent working together. So who brings the CI to your dad? Like, how did that get? My mom and dad were going through a divorce. Okay, so backtrack. My mom and dad were going through a divorce. I had just gotten out of a seven-year relationship.

And my dad took off. to North Carolina to go see my aunt at the time. And he met this guy who I was introduced to as cousin Mike. And that was the CI. And the guy was down in North Carolina as well, visiting from Connecticut. Do you know the backstory on him? Like, did he get pinched or something and decide to flip on your dad? No idea.

I don't, the indictment was sealed. I don't know. I don't even know why my dad never got in trouble. So your dad sends you to meet with the CI. Do you bring weed to that meeting? Mm-hmm. So you bring weed to the meeting, you give the CI the weed. Yeah, it was either just weed or just guns.

It was never like, never brought weed and guns at the same time, nothing like that. But the very first time you met the two of them, you brought weed, gave them the weed and the ATF agent, who you didn't know as an ATF agent, asked for guns. The ATF agent met the second time. Oh, the first time the deal went fine, no arrest. Just cousin Mike. Okay. Then the second time you show up with more weed? Yes.

And he's asking for guns now. Yeah. Okay. So now it would bring us to the third time where you go and meet them with the guns. I must have met like five times. And then it got weird because the ATF agent introduced himself to me as seafood Mike. So there's cousin Mike and seafood Mike? Yeah.

I don't even know these fucking people. So Yeah, it got weird because Seafood Mike Asked me to Get rid of the serial numbers on the guns And I knew that was I knew not to do that

I was like, no, I can't do that And you know, good thing I didn't Because I think it's like a five year enhancement Per gun I mean, why couldn't he just do it himself though? You gave him the I think they wanted me to hang myself All right. So he tells you that on the phone?

In person. Oh, in person. Everything was under surveillance. Everything. And you brought the guns to that meet when he asked you to do it. Yeah, he wanted me to do it anytime after that. And you successfully sell him the guns. And you don't get arrested right in that moment when you sell the guns. It was like four months later.

Wow. When I told him I didn't feel comfortable doing it no more. And then about three and a half, four months goes by, don't hear. hear from the dude. And then I get arrested. Tell us one morning. Tell us about that arrest. So I had the three, I had the three apartments.

And I was, I was renting a house in Brattleboro, Vermont with a buddy of mine. And I had my routine. I get up early in the morning, get my car, get on the highway, go up to Dunkin' Donuts, get a cup of coffee, come back home, take a shower. So I go up, get my coffee, come back home, take a shower. and I come out of the apartment building, and it was right on a busy street, and there's usually traffic,

and I step out the front door, I'm like, damn, there's no cars on the road this morning. I was like, this is weird, and I start walking out to my car, and I just hear a bunch of people yelling my name and get on the ground, and I look back, and there's a bunch of people running at me with guns, and I'm laying in the middle of the street,

getting handcuffed. And then I'm in the back of an unmarked SUV. And by now there's a bunch of unmarked cars, cops. And they go into the apartment, go through everything. And then I get taken to Burlington, Vermont, for a court hearing that morning. And then I was released. And then just on pretrial for a year and a half after that.

What's going through your mind when you're getting a Are you thinking about your dad? Are you, do you know that you were set up? Come to find out, they were at my dad's house too. The feds were at my dad's house. Arresting him or? No. Just searching the place?

Yeah. And weren't the pot plants kept there? I had pictures on my phone. And when you take a picture on the iPhone, it gives a geolocation. So they found everything. At your... There were helicopters, everything. At your dad's house?

Yep. So are they thinking that's you or do they know your dad's in on it? They have to know my dad's in on it. But he doesn't get arrested that day. He doesn't get arrested any day. And when you first meet with your attorney, is it a paid attorney or a public defender? Did you ask the public defender about what's going on with your dad? No.

They had no idea. Like, public defender does no shit. So they call them public pretenders, you know? Did you think that your dad flipped on you? Yep. Oh, you thought your dad threw you under? Still to this day. I, you know, I have my suspicions.

Do you guys talk to this day? So the weird thing was while I was on pretrial, I was not allowed to speak to my dad, no contact. And if I did have contact with him, like on accent, because we lived in a small community, I would have to immediately let my probation officer know. And I had never understood why that was. But he wasn't under arrest. Nope. Never.

So if you think about it out loud, why would he flip on you? Do you think he got pinched and then he's like, I'll give you someone else? I don't know. I don't know. I'll never know. Have you ever asked him? Uh, no. It seems a little suspect that you weren't allowed to talk to him if he wasn't a cooperating witness.

Yeah. It's not just me, right? It doesn't add up, knowing what I know about the feds and stuff. Yep. And he was never charged, if he was charged, that would be different. Nothing. Yeah. Nothing.

It almost makes you wonder if he was picked up first and said, I got someone else. Down in North Carolina. Something happened. He wanted to save himself and then. Yeah, that's the way I feel about it. That's the way everybody that knows me well feels about it. And the lawyer didn't have any discovery, nothing? Or you guys took a plea deal too early?

If I can go get a discovery now, I'd love to. I'd love to. Did you not get discovery because you took a plea deal? I didn't know anything about the system. I don't know. I didn't know what discovery was. I was a kid, you know. So tell us about your process on with the legal system from the day you got arrested all the way through pretrial.

So it was just in and out of court. They were dragging it on, like motions to continue it, whatever. And then I had to, you know how they. It's all based on a, what is the scale? I don't know. Like acceptance of responsibility, it went down to a couple points, stuff like that, you know. So it was a seven-count indictment. I ended up pleading to dealing in firearms without a license.

Did they charge you for the weed too in the indictment? No, there were weed charges in the indictment. Okay. But I pled out. I pled out because I didn't want to take it to trial. wanted to because it sounded almost like entrapment because I didn't know I never approached anybody trying to sell guns and shit like that what did your attorney say about a trap and he said don't take it to trial he's like it's not entrapment you don't want to you don't want to go

to trial with the feds yeah you know that well it sounds like there's a lot of recorded evidence on you yeah a lot a stack and there was no one else on the indictment no co-defendants nothing just nobody nobody So how long did it take for them to offer you a plea deal? Year and a half. And what was that plea deal for? Plead guilty to the firearm charge in 37 months. Did you think that was a fair amount of time?

What was going through your head? I don't even know what was going through my head, to be honest. I just I couldn't believe it was actually happening It was weird It was really surreal Where's your mom in all this? Is she taking sides?

Is she? Oh, she was on my side Okay All the money she got from the divorce She used to pay for a retainer for the lawyer Do you think the divorce Had something to do with what he was doing? I don't know

I don't know And I just Two weeks weeks ago, contacted him for the first time in many years. Oh, so you guys didn't talk for a long time? Mm-mm. What did you guys talk about in this conversation? Just said, Happy Father's Day.

Why did you decide to reach out after that long? Girlfriend, he's been reaching out to my girlfriend. Ugh. And I was like, damn, like if something ever happened to him, you know, I know what happened was shitty, but the end of the day is my dad. of the days my dad. I know I would never, I don't know if he threw me under the bus, but I know if I had a child, I would never take a bullet from my kid, you know. Did he try to reach out to you at all even through your mom, your sisters during your criminal process? No, but he came to visit me

one time. In prison? It was weird, dude. After you were already sentenced and everything. Yeah. It was weird. I don't know why I put him on the visitor list. But my dad never wore hearing aids, right? Never wore hearing aids. And the one time he shows up to visit me, he's got a hearing aid in. I'm like, that's, that's bizarre. And he's talking about how much fun we had growing weed together. I'm like, I don't, I'm not having fun right now, dude.

You know? Like, you get to go home after this visit. Never put a dollar on my books. Nothing. Did he go back into the weed business? business? Yep. Yep. He doesn't live in Vermont, no one. He moved last year. He sold the house and moved away. What did your sister, your sisters think of your arrest? They were sad. The youngest one used to always say she was coming to visit me. I put my uniform on, get ready.

I sit there waiting for my name to be called and no one would ever show up. You think she just couldn't bring herself to do it? No, I think she just self-centered. Do you guys have a good relationship now? Sometimes. Sometimes. I do my own thing now. I take care of, I don't know.

I focus on myself, you know. So you get 37 months, that's the plea deal, and you get sentenced to that same 37 months? Yep. Okay, and where do they send you to? Fort Devons. And that was, that's a camp, right? The medical camp?

Yeah, it's a medical facility, but then there's the satellite camp. And you went to the camp? Yeah. So you got to self-surrender there after, like after a few months? How old were you when you walked in the doors at Devons? 23. 23 years ago. Maybe 24.

Now, Devons is probably pretty close to your house. Yeah, it's just right off of route, too. I wish they sent me to Devons. It was like an hour and a half. Yeah. They should have sent me to Devons or Otisville instead. They sent me to Oxford, Wisconsin for the camp. No, I was 25.

I think it was 25 when I got. locked up when I self-surrendered because I remember I turned 29 yeah I was 25 when I got locked up okay what's going on in your mind and the days leading up to yourself surrender dude I didn't eat oh man I had an apartment left everything I had well I lost everything after I got arrested Fed seized everything bank accounts 401K everything everything I had I had I IRAs. But I had a truck they didn't know about. So I was able to get a job, get back on my feet. And I had to leave it all behind. Again, I lost everything again when I self-surrendered. It was scary, dude. When you're a kid and you have to go and like, you know, even though it was a

camp, I was like, fuck. Were you doing research on prison? No, I didn't want to. Had you watched any prison movies, prison shows leading up to that? Nothing. Nothing. Okay, so just you had the general conception of what prison was. Yeah. So tell us about that first day when you self-surrender. It was weird, dude.

I never had to lift up my nut sack for another man and then spread my ass open. So that was a little weird. It was scary because I had to sit in the show. shoe until there was a bed space you know so I was there for a couple weeks and uh you know you get your three meals I don't know where you are you got to stick your arm out the slot in the door and they stick you with a needle was that a t-b shot yeah your first 24 hours there I was like fuck dude what the fuck's going on but uh remember I get my tray I get a couple slices of bread and I'd saved my bread and I kind of rash it because I didn't know when when I was going to get another tray

or what was going to be on the tray. But I sat in the shoe by myself. I think they put the AC on them on purpose. It was February, so it was freezing. It's always on in the shoe. Dude, it sucks. Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in a crowd.

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That's gofundme.com. Gofundme. This podcast is supported by Gofundme. And then I went to the camp and it was cool. Because you went to the shoe before even stepping foot in the camp, were you thinking that's what prison is going to be like? Like you've got to do 37 months in this box? Yeah.

Yeah, that was weird. And I thought that's where I was going to be. That's how I felt too, because you got put in, like, the detention centers, and it's like that. And that's what you see on TV, and you're like, this is, shit, this looks exactly like what's in the movies. Yeah. And then you go to an actual yard, and you're like, it's a night and day difference. Yeah, you don't have to wear the orange jumpsuit, you know, wear your sweats, your uniform, whatever. Describe the camp to the audience.

It was probably, I think, I don't, 130 dudes maybe. it was awesome. I had a good time there. Honestly, if I had to go back and do it again, I wouldn't do it any other way. I had a good time. What kind of amenities were there? What kind of people were there?

It was probably 80% Spanish, like Puerto Rican, Dominican, and then the rest was just you know, African American and us whites. And what kind of charges did they have? have. It was mostly drug charges. Yeah, I think it was mostly drug charges.

Were people asking what you were there for? I think people know. Somehow they know before you even get there. So no one came up to you to ask. Because so in the camp there was like a cork board by the bubble. And like two days prior a day prior, a piece of paper would go up with, you know, inmates' names or number. and your inmate number, the first three digits, tells you where you're from,

or what state you're out of. And I think, I don't know if people would have other people back home look it up, but I don't know how they find out. Were there cell phones at the camp? Not that I know. Oh, there's no contraband cell phones? Oh, yeah, there was. Yeah.

There was. I never saw one. Oh, you never used one at all? No. Was that by choice or? Yeah. I would sew pockets. into pants for people.

That was one of my, I had a lot of hustles in prison because I didn't have money coming on my books from the outside. Yeah, tell us about these hustles. Oh, shit. First one was like a pasta business. My, okay, so my cellmate,

he was a Rhode Island guy. I ran with, even though I was from Vermont, case was out of Hartford, Connecticut. I ran with the Rhode Island car. And like some of these guys were, mobbed up dudes and we basically just did what we wanted to do we had we had food drops every Friday um so we'd be like Friday nights we'd be in our our our bunk making sandwiches and

calzone pizza everything but uh some of the hostels was like uh sewing pockets and pants and you know the uniforms didn't have I don't know if uh you were at Fort Dix I don't know if the uniforms had pockets They did, yeah. Ours didn't. So everyone had to like stick their hands down the front of their pants. So I was like, shit, I'm going to put pockets in my pants. So everybody saw that and I was like charging six bucks a pocket. So for a pair of pants, they'd make 12 bucks.

And that was for the phone or just to put their hands in? Just to put their hands in. But then I sold like little pouches for phones. That's what we had at Fort Dix. People with the Spanish guys would, you could buy these pockets that would sew right in your crotch area to put your phone. It was a little phone pocket. Dude, I don't even know where the people hit. I don't know if they were hidden on the yard or what, but.

No, so, yeah, I had the pocket business. My cellmate, he was from Rhode Island. He was an older guy. He had a job in the kitchen. So we would steal food from the kitchen. We'd do salads on Fridays, tuna melts. And then this one big, this one big hustle we had, we boosted 20 mattresses from the warehouse because I had a job at the prison warehouse.

And so in the medical facility, there's a lot of guys on dialysis and they have, their mattresses are like these real thick, cushiony, vinyl covered mattresses. So there was 20 of them came into the warehouse, or however many. And I had already sold all these 20 mattresses, but I needed to figure out how to get them out of the warehouse. and into the camp. So the bus driver, who was an inmate, we had this whole thing organized. He pulls up to the back of the warehouse, where, you know, I was working at the warehouse,

pulls up, we load the bus up with the mattresses. He goes back to the camp, pulls around back, and everybody that bought the mattresses is lined up ready to get their mattresses. It was sick. How much were they paying for a mattress? $250. $250?

And the prison had no idea about this? Nobody gave a ship. what we did. And these were all used mattresses that the prison didn't care about anymore. And so they didn't notice that they were all missing? They were a brand new unicorn mattresses. And they didn't notice they were missing? No.

So we gave a shit. How would people send you the money? Just through food commissary. That's a lot of money. Yeah. Well, I split it with the bus driver. We called him big bus. I don't want to say anybody's name.

We called him big bus. This is a big fat Italian guy. and then my cellmate we split everything and no guard is noticing you guys back this bus up to the yard I don't know if the guard there was one Rhode Island guy I think the guards really respected him or were afraid of them because we they knew what we were doing

they didn't care so did everyone want a new mattress because the ones they currently had were just shot you know those thin saltine cracker cloth mattresses. They're probably full of bedbugs and shit. And these ones were... Yeah, you can't state. They were vinyl. And they were like these memory foam mattresses. And the prison never found out after that there's all these mattresses gone?

No. Maybe they did. But you were gone by that point. Yeah. And I don't know if G-shock watches were a thing where you were at. They didn't sell them anymore, but you can have them from other prisons. And they were, they were like Rolexes. Yeah, dude. It was like a Rolex. in prison. So I remember they first introduced them

at Fort Devons and I would take the early bus down with the prison mechanic inmates and I'd walk over to the prison commissary where I worked and I'd hopped the fence into the cage and people were buying

G-shock watches but they'd give me their old shitty time X or whatever they were and I would just swap them out real quick before the COs got into the office down there. So you would steal the G-shocks out of the commissary? Yep. And how much would you sell those for? I think it was like 50 bucks a piece, less than the mattresses.

How much were they going for on a commissary? I don't know. I don't remember. I used to have a commissary slip. And they didn't notice that the G-shocks were gone? Nobody ever said anything. Sounds very laid back. Yeah, can you imagine, like, ordering a G-shock watch and getting somebody's old time-ex in your box?

The inmates didn't say anything? No, nobody said anything. Wow. Yeah, dude, it was just stealing shit. So, just to... Explain to the audience about they're actually being inmates that drive the buses because someone listening is like, there's no way this is prison with people driving buses.

Like, they don't think that's real. No, it's a real thing. And then inmates will drive inmates that get out to halfway houses in Boston. And that whole thing is pretty much run by the Spanish guys. That's like some, their own racket. I don't know anything about it. And the camp driver will drive people to the airport, anything. They do errands for the prison.

Yep. Yeah, because I tried to, I got my driver's license sent in. I tried to get my license because I wanted to get out like in the real world, you know. but the Spanish community shut it down, which is fine. I don't know. They wanted to run their own thing. Was there a lot of contraband coming into the person?

I know you didn't see cell phones, but was there anything else? Yeah, we got a lot of lunch meat. That's where you wanted to smuggle in, lunch meat? Oh, dude, we got shit to make sandwiches, everything. Just no, we never messed with cell phones. I didn't want to, I didn't want to lose good time, nothing like that. What kind of lunch meat were you guys smuggling in?

Capical. mortadello so like some high-end Italian meat we got Italian bread everything it was good and who was bringing that in I don't know

Rhode Island guys and would you pay for that or you were just a part of just a part of it never paid for anything and everyone would just eat together yep dude and my cell mate

I'd this dude lived off of Swiss rolls Swiss rolls and snicker bars I don't know how he's fucking still alive, dude. There were so many guys that would just smash honeybuns all day and they were skinny.

He refused to. No, this guy, he wasn't skinning. He's a unit. Wicked good dude. We talked last week. But yeah, he refused to eat the food they served unless I made him food or we used to have breakfast burritos delivered at our cell, you know, like three times a week. And what was in these breakfast burritos?

How much would they cost? Scramble day. It was like five bucks for a six-pack of breakfast burritos. People don't realize you can live like a king off of very little money. You get your laundry done, your cell clean food for all meals. We really, like, I'll shoot the shit with people about it and talk about it. And I feel like nobody believes me. Like, we lived really well in there.

It wasn't bad. Yeah, you look about the cost of how much things cost now to get, like, your laundry done. if I go get my laundry done, it's like 50, 60 bucks. Dude, and you don't have to stress about shit that's going on in the real world. No girlfriend, nothing. No bills. I didn't have any bills. Except for whatever you're paying the guys on the compound to do stuff for you.

Yeah. Well, they were paying us. It was simpler times. But were there things you missed from the outside world? Or was it just that chill that you were just content with being there? Women. But I made, you know, I... I feel like the year and a half I was on pretrial, I kind of went a little crazy with that.

Got out of your system? And then got it back into my system after I got out. Were a woman more attracted to you because you were on pretrial or arrest? No. More so when I got out, that was tough to adjust. I remember the first girl I dated. You don't know how to tell somebody that. You know, it's embarrassing, kind of.

I remember she told me when she found out, you know, just found out through Google. She's like, I can't be with you anymore. You're a felon. It's like, I'm not a chomo or nothing like that, you know. And I didn't understand it. And then you'll date somebody. She'll know about it. And then she'll hang it over your head.

Like she's doing you a favor by being with you, you know. How long to take for that girl to find out? The first girl? Yeah, that dumped you. Like a week and a half So it wasn't a serious relationship No, no But it was like the first girl I tried to date

So I was like It was tough I feel like it's becoming more acceptable now Because of social media Yeah Like when I get first got out of prison It's because of your podcast Yeah

When I first got out of prison I had those same struggles You know Yeah But now there's people that actually Will message you Because you went to prison And they find that attractive

Yeah I feel like the worst struggle was trying to find housing Like, why does it have to be on a On a rental application, you know? Especially for a nonviolent. Oh, actually, technically you had guns on your case. Yeah, so I don't know if it was a violent or nonviolent.

Would it have been, do you think looking back on it now, you would have rather have pled out to say weed instead of guns? No. It was more time. The weed? Yeah. But maybe you would have had a better chance of getting a pardon or a... Yeah, like the main.

mandatory minimum change and stuff, but I don't know. I didn't know what to do. I just was my first time really getting in trouble. I got in trouble when I was younger for something stupid and did six years probation for that. What were you facing if you just topped out to a drug charge? I think it was 40 years. You know, they try and scare you with a number. And I forget how many million dollars in fines.

But I got out. I had no restitution, nothing like that. We were talking off camera when you got here about how much you like to cook prison food. Tell us about some of the meals you were cooking, how you learned to cook in prison and all of that. So trash can nachos. We used to call them trash can nachos because the dudes would cook them on top of a trash can. And it looked like something from the bottom of a garbage bag. And like Super Bowl Sunday, everybody had nacho bowls. But no, we were making homemade pasta.

We had a sauce business. And then I was doing tuna melts. I would steal cans of tuna from the food service warehouse. I had a can opener brought in. I'd have it hidden down there. So it was cool. What would you press it with a iron? No, there was in the kitchen.

You know, we had a few TVs in the kitchen. And like once the kitchen was shut down, they closed the gate. But you can still go in there and watch TV. And there was like a conventional toaster that was on like a conveyor belt. And you could use that to toast your bagels and stuff. And I'd make these prison, uh, these, uh, tuna melts in like a tortilla and like a bunch of tortillas. It was like the size of a VHS tape.

And I'd have tomato, onion, jalapeno, cheese. Now we cooked a lot of stuff. How much are you selling those tuna melts for? Seven bucks. Seven bucks? Seven bucks a tune amount. Oh, a higher end price, uh, tuna melt. And people would just buy them.

Yep. So you're making pretty good decent prison money in there with all your hustles. Yeah, and Homeboy, who was my cellmate, uh, he was at, you know, food service. So he'd also steal these things. We called him pillows. It was a huge bag of salad. And everyone would drop their bowls off on our lot. and we do like bowls of salad and stuff.

You know, we had so many hustles. Not just food. It was like selling, all that stuff. Did you think doing all those hustles in prison to help pass the time? Yeah. I passed the time writing letters a lot. Who would you write letters to?

A bunch of girls. Girls you knew or did one of those like pen pal sites? No, no. I didn't do the pen pal site. No, girls I knew from me. the outside there are some friends um and i would mark how i did it to pass the time i'd mark on the calendar the day i mailed the letter and then i'd count down the days it took to get back a letter and uh this my one friend sophia she always she was good for like three letters a week i'd get three

letters a week and we don't we don't talk no more but i used to have all the left i saved a lot of the letters but they're all gone now i feel like you form a connection with people that stick by you through prison and that communicate with you and the letters and whatnot? You know, honestly, dude, one of my best buddies lives out in Los Angeles. And he came to see me every Christmas, every birthday for three years more than my family did. My family was just up in Vermont. I don't know. That speaks volumes to me.

It means a lot. Did your mom visit you a lot? My mom moved to Key West. So I only saw my mom a handful of times. She was just done with everything, wanted to get out of there. Yep. Yeah, after the divorce, I think she just wanted to, like, dip out. Was she mad at you for getting arrested and getting sent to prison?

Yes and no. She couldn't. She couldn't be. I mean, I'm a kid. Did she feel embarrassed? I think she was mad more at my dad for allowing me to get wrapped up in what he was doing in the first place. Do you think she was embarrassed? No.

My mom was never embarrassed of me no matter what I did. Shit, man. My mom's threatened to fight teachers I've had for dumb things I've done at work at school. When you're in prison, did you see your mindset change? You know, did you want more for yourself in life? Oh, yeah, definitely. Absolutely.

What was going through your mind? I wanted to come home and hit the ground running. I didn't want to waste my time anymore. Just doing dumb stuff. And, uh, like, that's what, that's what I mean by like, if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't do it any other way. I feel like I utilized that three years to my advantage. And it was more, I look at it more of like, uh, it was a, it was a blessing of time.

Like, when does anybody on the outside have that much time to really sit and reflect and like plan what they want to do without any you know any distractions from the outside world like yeah you got to let's sit there and listen to dudes slamming dominoes and shit on the table but i mean that's really your only distraction in there yeah it's interesting the world kind of stops for you but life is still going on on the outside and no and you know like these two out in the lobby they don't don't never understand that it's it's weird People that never went through it will never understand it. It really does, time does stand still.

I look at the years I spent there, like I missed 20 to, from 21 to 22 and 22 to 23. It just, it feels like I'd never had those years in my life. Like I have the memories and experiences from prison, but not with anyone else from like the outside world or that was in my life. Yeah, I feel like I missed out on a lot, but I kind of gained a lot too. How much time did you do on 37 months? When I got 85% of the time you do in the feds. Yeah. So I didn't lose any good time.

Did you get extra halfway house time at all? I didn't go to halfway house. Oh, you declined it? Dude, I struggled. I, nobody wanted to come and let me do home confinement at their place. I finally convinced my youngest sister to let me do the six months there. I didn't want to go to Boston and go to halfway house. Yeah, nobody wanted to, nobody wanted me.

So she finally said yes, and then I did that. What was your plan for when you got out? I already had it planned. I went back to a job that I left. I worked up until the day before I self-surrendered, and the day after I got out and got my ankle monitor put on, I started working. What kind of job was it?

It was just a landscape job. But I did that, and then just did some construction after that. because I was making peanuts, landscaping. Yeah, and then the construction gig didn't last too long because the guy, the guy was a douchebag. So I left there, and my girlfriend at the time, who I ended up marrying a couple years later, invited me out to her shop.

She was a blacksmith. And we started making knives together. She's like, just hang out with me, da-da-da-da, make knives. and I started a business out of it. She signed me up for a TV show on the History Channel and went on that, competed on that, and won it, and then made a business out of it. How do you compete on a TV show for knife making?

So it was four contestants, and then you go head-to-head making a knife, and then it comes down to two people, and then you go head-to-head back of your home, forge and then uh there's one winner and did you win money for that yeah i won 10 grand oh that's it i thought it was like a big giant prize or so i blew it all in the tattoo wait one tattoo was 10 grand yeah that one that whole arm was 10 grand yeah dude it's not even done bro i think you got played on the tattoo yeah i think i did too this whole sleeve wasn't even 10 grand yeah oh man so you do that

you guys get married. How long after this, after prison was this? Eight years maybe. Did you feel like your life was finally coming together? You got past those, you know, the judgments of going to prison. Yeah, yeah. You were able to rebuild. Yeah. Yeah, that was no issue in the marriage, nothing like that. And she was accepting of the fact that you went to prison when you first met? Yeah, definitely. So do you believe that there's some person out there for you that will be comfortable with your past because I know a lot of guys Yeah, she's out there in the lobby right now. But a lot of guys do struggle with that or women struggle with that.

Yeah, I think it's even though it's not the woman so much, it's their family or their parents. Yeah, I feel like that some people are attracted to that aspect. But then the parents have an opinion of it. Yeah. Or they'll cut off their child because they're dating someone. Yeah, and then it makes you feel like a jerk because you're taking. them away from their parents. Was it hard for you to meet people's parents?

No. No. No, that wasn't bad at all. What would you say were the hardest parts of life after prison? I know you spoke of housing. Where are there other struggles? Being homeless. Being homeless because you couldn't get housing.

And in Vermont, like it's winters, winters are long. And it's tough. So you were actually homeless on the street? No, in my car, or I pitch a tent out in the woods. How long do you do that for? On and off, dude. On and off. I lost an apartment in a flood.

And then after that, it was hard to find a place. Rentals are hard to find up there. You know, living in between all these major ski resorts, everyone's Airbnb in their places. So it's tough. And your sisters didn't want to help you? I have one sister that lives in Massachusetts, and the other one doesn't want to help.

Was that because you went to prison? No. She's got her own. They both have their own families. I don't. So I don't want to infringe either, you know. Did you end up having kids? No.

Do you want kids? I did. I don't. No. Why did you change your mind? I just want to have a good fun. I just want to have fun. I don't want to be held down by responsibility like that.

All these years after prison, since so many years have passed now, do you still think about prison, think about the aspect of your life, think about the actions that led to prison? Think about it more often than not, actually. What do you think about? Just how surreal it is. I can't believe where I'm at now. I've never done better in my life

or been doing better in my life than I am right now. Like, my life is great. And I wouldn't be where I'm at if I never got locked up. What's your life like now? I have an awesome job. I work for one of the most stand-up dudes I know. This guy's name's Corey White. He's out of Dorset, Vermont.

and we both basically just run this. I work for him. It's like we run this construction company together and we just kill it. We work so hard. He's one of the hardest workers I know. He's a good dude. Why do you think you needed to go to prison

and experience what you did to have that life now? Just to not take things for granted. I took so much for granted, especially my time. I don't know. Yeah, I just, I don't know. I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't change any of it.

Do you feel like you're a different person now than you were before you went to prison? Yeah, absolutely. What do you think are the biggest changes, the biggest differences? There's some positive and negative. Like my patients are really, like I'm not as patient, like waiting in line. Like if I'm at the grocery store and somebody pulls out a checkbook, it's like, I'll have a meltdown, you know? Or like waiting in line to eat or waiting in line. to go to the bathroom.

Like, I just need things to be like, boom, boom, boom, instant. But, uh, no, I feel like I'm a harder worker now. Do you feel like it was a humbling experience going to prison? Yeah, I needed it. God only knows where I would be if I didn't go. I could be sitting in there longer. I could be dead.

Do you ever think about if you guys never got busted, if you guys just continued, like, what the heights would have been on it? It would have fizzled out with the way everything is now, with all the dispensaries, everything. It's more of a legal thing up there. Now, I know you mentioned that you just spoke to your dad a couple weeks ago. Where do you see your relationship going with him? Do you think you'll be able to forgive him, make amends with him, and rebuild a relationship? I could forgive him even if I never find out what happened.

I don't know. Maybe nothing happened. It's tough. Have you thought about just asking him? know, straight up man to man. Yeah, I don't think you would be honest about it. It's worth a shot, right? Yeah, I could ask him.

Just to sit down, maybe it helps bring closure, do you? I could try it. It'd be interesting to see what happens. Yeah, let me know what he says, you know? Well, I mean, the fact that he's reaching out, maybe he has something on his mind and some guilt, too, because so many years have passed. I couldn't imagine having to carry that weight,

knowing your kid, knowing your kid went away. I feel like most parents would have taken the heat for them. I know my dad would have. Yeah. I wish I could say this. If you had a kid, a son. I would. I would.

If I had a kid, hell yeah. I don't think he could do the time, though, mentally. I think it takes a mentally stronger person to be able to do that. Yeah. No matter what kind of prison is. The prison's prison, even a camp. You know, some people will make fun of people that went to a camp. It's lonely, dude.

It's lonely. And then, you know, you get your visit. I hated visits. You know, you got to say by to your friends or that sucks. I prefer not to have a visit because you got to dress up. You got to do all that. Yep. And you got to get stripped out.

And then you have, you have nothing to talk about. You have to listen to them and what's going on outside. And your guest just wants to hear about the prison stuff, but you don't want to talk about the prison stuff. Yeah, because you got to live that shit every day. Yeah. And then you feel like you're vulnerable because other people are looking at, your families and what's going on. But the vending machine food was good.

I never ate it. Did you guys have the vending machines? What were those burgers called Big AZs? I don't know, but they were good. I think they were big AZs. With like the seeds in the buns. They had that. They had chicken wings.

I can't believe people got chicken wings out of a freaking vending machine, but people would do it. No, dude. I never ate it. At our camp, the visiting room would also turn into a TV room. Yeah, same here. Yeah, we would get our single smuggled to us, whereas like at the low, you couldn't go into the visiting room. one that's not visiting, but at the camp you could.

So we would get money smuggled in from our visits and get sodas, food, everything. Yeah, we would just walk in there because there was cameras, but no one was meeting the visiting room. I'm sure people did that. I, you know, I just looked the other one. Why do you think you were more of a rule follower? Like you broke silly rules like the mattress and stuff like that. Anything with food, like stealing. Yeah, I'd steal from other inmates commissary and stuff.

Oh, you would steal from other inmates? Well, I worked prison commissary. So it was like I delivered the truck would pull up on commissary. I don't even remember what day it was. And I'd have to like hand out the inmates' bags. And we'd put like the white collar to, I know you're a white collar. But we'd put their bags in the back because they had the best shit. And we would put our bags in the back next to theirs.

We'd just be like loading, loading ship from theirs and ours. And you would sell their bags? No, we just eat their food. food. And they never said anything either? No. Wow. Because we didn't, we never loaded the bag. It was the COs that filled the bags. We just delivered them off the back of the truck. I would be pissed if I ordered commissary and I saw half my, and got, oh, well, I guess you don't get charged for it, though, if it's missing. No, you do. So you guys, you ring it out. Oh, like at our commissary, you would only get ringed out for the stuff they put in front of you. You don't get ringed out in advance.

Ours must have been different. Yeah, because ours, you would go the window and then they'd bring it out. They self-check it out. Not ours. Ours wasn't like that. Ah, so these guys were actually losing money. Were you at a camp or? Yeah, I went from Lowe's to a camp, and they were all the same way you'd go to the window.

And there would be inmates working in the back doing all the shopping. They'd bring it in a basket to the guard who would scan it. And if there was items that were on your list and you didn't get, you don't get charged for it. Oh, ours wasn't like that. The COs loaded the bags. Okay, that's how you're able to do that. And then they prepaid for it or whatever. Yeah, we got the commissary sheet.

You check off, you don't put a number next to whatever you wanted. Yeah, we never, there was no window, nothing like that. Interesting. But you wouldn't break, like, rules. Like, you didn't get involved in cell phones or anything that was, like, a serious rule, I guess you would say. I did have an MP3 player from the outside. You didn't want to buy the one on commissary? It was the same exact one on commissary.

But it was jailbroken like it had all the real music on it? So I, a good buddy of mine, another Rhode Island guy, his son is a lead singer of one of my favorite bands. And he was locked, you know, the father was locked up. And his son, who's the lead singer in the band, got him an MP3 player. And then it was given to me when he went home. So that's how I got my hands on it. What's something you would tell your teenage self If you could sit across from him today

What advice would you give him? Don't take your time for granted You never get it back It's the most valuable thing you have It's the most valuable thing any person has Do you feel like you'll ever forget about prison Or move on from it or will it always be a part of you? No, man, I don't think so

Which is a good thing, it's a bad thing, you know? Does your girlfriend ask you questions about prison? No, I feel like I always tell her about it, though. Just randomly you bring it up? Yeah, certain things will remind me of it. Like the time I made her prison nachos. Yeah, I can't believe you put it through her that. It was disgusting.

Yeah, you gave her hot dogs. You couldn't find the meat logs. You couldn't find a summer sausage if you put hot dogs in it. That's not the real experience. I got to get on Amazon, get the stuff you got. Yeah, you got to make it properly. When you guys come back to do some cooking stuff. I'll make you some pork fried rice.

Oh, you know how to fry the rice in the microwave? Yeah, ramen noodles? Yeah. You don't do it with water. No, we'd use macrol oil. Oh, I just fried them dry. And then you put a little bit of 190 in there just to steam them and then stick them back in. So it's just all dry for the frying?

Yeah, you brown them. You got to open the door, close the door, turn it on. Yeah, we used mackerel oil or some guys would actually have olive oil. Like when they were selling it on other compounds, that would sell for a lot. They'd have glass bottles off. olive oil. All right. Yeah, which was interesting.

Or guys would actually get like canola oil or something smuggled in. Yeah. But for the most part, because it's soybean oil in the macros. So that was perfect to fry with. Oh, dude. We got to do some cooking down here. Yeah, definitely. I'm looking forward to trying it.

And you got to make sure you give your girlfriend some real nachos, not some bullshit hot dog ones. You got to write me your recipe. I'll go home with your recipe. Yeah, I do a cold nacho where it's, so it's different layers. So you have like your chips. then you'd put some rice down on it. The chips are cold, you don't heat the chips. You're heating all the ingredients separately.

Like we said, the pickle is key. Yeah, the pickles on top. That's the cold part. So you do the rice, onions, cold onions, peppers, more chips, beans, cheese, if you want that. Chili, too. Yeah, the chili and bean pouch. Crazy amount of sodium in that. More chips on that.

Then you put your meat, your summer sausage, if you want mackerel, anything like that down. And then more, and then I would always put, honey on it. Honey is so good. I never heard of the honey. And a lot of restaurants now are doing like the hot honey on chips. Like we go to this place, Bobos down the road. And they have hot honey chips, hot honey chips, like all these different meals, which is

interesting. But yeah, then you put a layer of that. And the best part is the pickles. The big pickle bouch, you cut it up with your ID and put in cubes. Oh, you were cutting it with your ID? Yeah, or people would. We could the safety raisers and snap them on the floor. We would do that too.

the safety razors to cut onions with or guys would make at the shop like either out of mirrors or metal and it would look like a, it was like a dull kind of like plastic knife like one of those pizza dough cutters that look like that and we would use that for vegetables too.

It's so interesting all the things that people would make at prison. Dude, cheesecake. I don't know how cheesecake was made. I was a cheesecake guy. Oh, you were? Yeah, I made cheesecake. They were doing with pop tarts.

No, I never made cheesecake with pop tarts but it's just creamer, lime juice. or I mean lemon juice and whatever ingredients, graham crackers. And it's a non-baked cheesecake. I didn't realize it's got a, you don't need to cook it. And you can use either the cream cheese on commissary,

which was gross, non-refrigerated cream cheese, or you'd smuggle out the Philadelphia out of the kitchen. Oh, dude. Yeah, I've got to get online and try and find some of the stuff we used to go. Yeah, you got to look at all that stuff. And we had a prison commissary cooking show that we're bringing back, we're going to start a Patreon, but it was called Commissary Cookoff.

those videos are on YouTube. It's pretty cool. We had my dad competing against prison people because he's a chef. Oh, so is it just regular people competing against prison people? So we did everything. We did prison people competing against prison people, prison versus non-prison, prison guard versus prisoner, two people that have never been to prison before. We do things like that. Is it a timed, like a timed thing? Yeah, sometimes we did like a time limit. Sometimes we did like, you have to make a meal and a dessert. The desserts are kind of. kind of repetitive, but the meals are interesting, but desserts, like there was like the honey buns piled together with peanut butter and jelly in between or pop tarts. Like, there's so many

different options. Oh, my God. I want to come down and do it. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And, you know, every once in a while, I'll throw in some ramen noodles. I like, people think I'm weird for this, but I like my ramen noodles without water in it. I drain it. Oh, I do too. But I cook it with, I cook it with the broth. And then I take a, like, a half a stick of butter. And I throw that in there and then squeeze a bunch of ketchup all over it. Catch up. Dude. It'll change your life.

No, no, no. I'll put saratra or mayo in it. Like, I think mayo is good. I can't do mayonnaise. Really? Not in ramen noodles. That was what we were doing in prison. Mayo, crackers, the chips.

Done like Kool-Aid. That's gross too. Well, that's how you make the pork fried rice. We got to talk to your girlfriend out there, but this is disgusting. Oh, dude. She's seen me eat some pretty gnarly shit. And she still puts up with you, huh? Hot dog.

I love hot dogs. Oh, hot dogs are great, but it's just not prison-related. I mean, they did serve hot dogs during the week, but... Not in the heart healthy tray. Yeah. But, Kyle, I appreciate you coming out today, man. Thanks for sitting down with me. I hope you have an awesome birthday.

Yeah, I appreciate it, brother. Yeah, go enjoy your Sally's pizza. Oh, I'm going to. Take care, bro. You too, dude.