Locked In with Ian Bick - I Went to Maximum Security Prison at 50 – How I Survived | Lori LeDonne

Episode Date: September 21, 2025

Lori LeDonne grew up in Connecticut with a good family and a passion for music. But after suffering a miscarriage, Lori turned to drugs, starting a battle with addiction that would last decades. She got sober for years, only to relapse in her early 50s — a relapse that would change everything. Lori ended up giving drugs to a young woman who overdosed, leading to a manslaughter conviction and a three-year sentence in a women’s maximum security prison. #AddictionRecovery #WomenInPrison #LockedInPodcast #ManslaughterCase #TrueCrimePodcast #RedemptionStory #PrisonStories #secondchances Thank you to BLUCHEW & PRIZEPICKS for sponsoring this episode: BlueChew: Visit https://bluechew.com/ and use promo code LOCKEDIN at checkout to get your first month of BlueChew FREE & pay five bucks for shipping. Prizepicks: Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/IANBICK and use code IANBICK and get $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup! Connect with Lori LeDonne:Websire: LeDonneMusic.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/ll_keyz/Email: [e-mail] Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Use code LOCKEDIN for 20% OFF Wooooo Energy Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 Lori’s Story: From Tragedy & Addiction to Prison Redemption00:48 Growing Up in Connecticut: Family, Childhood & Early Struggles03:55 Discovering Music: The Creative Escape That Shaped Her Life07:43 High School Years: Pressure, Expectations & Emotional Battles12:34 College Dreams Shattered: First Major Loss That Changed Everything15:05 Miscarriage & Rock Bottom: How Addiction Took Over Her Life21:51 Drugs in the Music Scene: The Dark Side of the Industry26:24 Fighting for Sobriety: Relapse, Recovery & the Endless Cycle33:35 Grief, Loss & the Pain That Kept Pulling Her Back40:36 Relapsing After Years Sober: The Moment Everything Fell Apart45:18 The Overdose: Manslaughter Charges & Crushing Guilt49:15 Courtroom Reality: Facing Charges, Sentencing & Prison Time53:39 Walking Into Prison: Fear, Shock & First Challenges59:20 Finding Purpose Behind Bars: Connection & Personal Growth01:05:47 Women’s Prison Life: Daily Struggles & Survival Tips01:10:31 After Release: Healing, Self-Discovery & Rebuilding Life01:16:04 Lessons Learned: Regret, Redemption & Newfound Purpose01:23:03 Turning Pain Into Purpose: Helping Others Through Her Story01:26:47 Final Thoughts: Acceptance, Growth & Moving Forward Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Join us June 11th through 14th opening weekend as the tournament kicks off in Los Angeles. Tickets are just $10 and kids under 12 were free. Get yours now at Los Angeles FWC26.com Pounding on her chest and pounding on her chest. And I did CPR and I called 911 and they just couldn't revive her. How hard was that sentencing hearing? Horrible to hear that I want you to suffer. Tell us about prison.

I got a nickname when I was in there. My big stature herself, they started calling me Big El. What do you think are the top things a woman needs to know to survive women's maximum security prison? Lori Le Dohn had a good family and a passion for music, but after a miscarriage, her life spiraled into decades of addiction. A relapse in her early 50s led to a young woman's overdose and a three-year sentence in a woman's maximum security prison for manslaughter. This is a story of how Lori survived prison faced her demons. and turn her sentence into a mission to help other women escape addiction and change their lives. Lori, welcome to Locked in.

Thanks so much for coming today. Thank you for having me. I know we had to kidnap you in an Uber to get you over here today. You did. You did. But I'm glad we can make this work and just getting over being sick. So thanks for moving things around to adjust the schedule this week. I'm glad you're feeling better.

Yeah, when I get sick, I'm just miserable. I'm glad I had like the last couple days, no interviews to just like recuperate. Still got a little lump in my throat. but I did not want the miserable, Ian. Yeah, I get so depressed when I'm sick. I get sick like twice a year. I got sick in February before I did the Mr. Beast thing like the week before and now I'm sick again.

Can't win. You're still smiling. I'm always smiling. People, when I do like when I'll ask like a serious question during the interview and it gets put out on a clip, that's like a serious thing. People are like, why is the host smiling? Like it's so weird. It's like that's just my personality.

It's not like, I don't think it's like a joke or fun. It's just, I'm always smiling. Yeah, I kind of got that same thing. That's a good thing. I don't think it's a bad thing at all. Yeah. Did you grow up in Connecticut? I did.

Where? I grew up in Huntington, Connecticut, Shelton. Okay. What was your upbringing like? I had a really good upbringing. My parents were really young. They had me when they were teenagers. So they were very, very motivated and they had their own businesses.

So they were out a lot and busy a lot. I was there for my little brother and sister. who are twins, and they were seven years younger than me. What kind of business did your parents own? My mother recently passed. She owned a real estate company in Connecticut, and my father was a CPA. So would you guys say you were middle class, upper class? I would say we were upper class.

Never wanting for anything at all? Never. My mother was very successful, so she had a lot of people working for, and she did really well. She was the top, one of the top real estate agents for condo sales for 35 years. What were some? Oh, yeah, go on. Yes. And so she, also from there, she did a lot, a lot of work with the American Cancer Society, because she had got cancer very young, and they didn't give her a lot of time. So I grew up very, very religious, and she prayed a lot and really gave her word to God that she was going

to put her energy in her time into. finding a cure and putting money back into the cancer society, to raising breast cancer awareness. What were some values both parents instilled in you as a child? What goes on in the family stays in the family. That was a big, big, big one. So that was a big Italian one that my father had instilled on me there. I'm just going to leave it at that. And then I would say generosity.

I came from a really, really generous, generous face. family. And that was, I think, one of the really good qualities that I got. Work ethic. Always work, work, work, work, work your hardest. But my mother was really behind. I was an artist. So I graduated high school early. And they wanted me to be a doctor and a lawyer. And I was like, no, I'm going to Berkeley College of Music. I'm going to Boston. So it didn't go over well. But they said, My mother was still really proud of me. My father was going through his own struggles at the time. So he was kind of, they weren't getting along. And they got, when I went away to school, they separated. And so it was a little tougher for my brother and sister than it was for me. I was a lot more independent growing up. Kind of did my own thing. Who were you closest to? In my family. Yeah, out of your mom and dad. My mother.

By far. When did you develop a taste for music? Was it when you were a kid? I was three years old, and I'm going to age the hell out of myself, but what everyone knows anyway. So there was three phone books. Remember those things called Yellow Pages? So I climbed up on them, and I boosted myself onto my great-aunt piano bench, and I started playing Born Free with both hands on the piano, just thinking, like, everybody knows how to do this at three.

Cool. It was the first time I saw a piano, and I just thought that's what you do with it. I knew already. So I got myself, my mother comes running in the room, freaking out. How do you know how to do this? I thought I was in trouble. I was like, scared. I thought, what do you mean?

I just, I don't know. You know, when you're little, it's so, I can see the same scene unfold in my head because they were so upset almost and not knowing how like, I'm just, da, dun, da, da, da, da, da, da, like with both hands. So it started then. And they got me a piano. and I learned how to play, and then they got me professional lessons. And I did my first original performance at 9 from an original piece that I wrote. And I was really bored in high school. I got super bored.

So I had enough credits to get out early. And I petitioned to the board of education and got into an early admissions program. So I had to do something first. It was really weird. They put me in Sacred Heart for a year without telling the teachers. in my junior year of what would have been my junior year of high school. And they didn't tell the teachers how old I was. And if I graduated, I got to go to college.

So I had to be able, not graduated, but if I passed the class, should I say, that one, that two semesters of fall and spring, then I could go and start college. And that's what I did. It's always the most creative ones I feel like struggle in high school. I definitely struggled in high school to kind of fit in in that. And I left high school a semester early too. I was just bored. I had enough. Yeah. I had a really good program when we were there.

It was called Inter-Arts that they offered for one of the semesters. And that was when I was a sophomore. And they pulled it. And it was the state of Connecticut offered you could audition. And then they would take two people from each city and pay for them for their whole afternoon. So they would come and pick us up at 10.30 in the morning. And we would spend the rest of the day at a college where they would offer all of these. really cool, you either could dance.

You were either into the acting arts, visual arts, or music. So you could audition for any of the programs. So I auditioned for acting and music and got accepted into both. So I got double the credits, which allowed me to graduate early. So even though your parents envisioned a different career path for you, they were still very supportive of your music as a kid and into high school? Yes. My mother wore more than my father, but yes.

Do you think that was hard on your dad that you wanted to go a different route? I don't think he understood as much. I think he wanted me to use my brain. And, you know, like, you're so smart. You can do whatever you wanted. And he was more setting it up with, didn't want me to be disappointed and wanted me to have a good career and a good income. Aside from creative, how else would you have described yourself in high school? I would say friendly, happy, outgoing.

I liked to be involved with a lot of different groups. I didn't really kind of feel like I was with one kind of group of people. I liked going around with all the different groups. Sometimes I hung out with kids that were doing sports and other times in the theater groups and sometimes music. So I wasn't there a lot. I got to leave early. So by the time they made me come back and graduate in 1980. So which was weird, I'd already been out of school for two years.

So there were people that I didn't really even know who I was. Like, who's that girl walking with her class? Because you figured you would know everybody you went to high school within a smaller town. What do you think was your saddest memory from your upbringing? Oh, that is a really loaded question. I'm going to say being let down by my father was really one, because he was like my hero. He was so, he used to watch me sleep. I have pictures of him watching me sleep as a baby.

And we had a lot in common. We were so almost too much alike. but I had put him on such a pedestal so when he took himself down off it it was a big realization aha moment for me because I always thought that no matter what happened it would always be him that had my back and I think I realized that

when some of the things had unfolded that did for me the only one that was going to have my back was me do you feel like you were put on a pedestal by your parents and that there was a lot of pressure on you? It was a lot of perfectionism put on me, expectations by my father. You know, and as a child, like, I was expected to have a certain amount of grades. Like, I got punished for getting under a A.

You know, there's huge expectations of, in my family, in general, but especially for my father, really expected that of me. And he was a very scary man. Do you think there was more pressure put on you than your younger siblings? Yes. Why do you think that is? Because firstborn. I think that comes kind of along with it. I think my parents were, you know, they do the experimentation of not really knowing what they're doing.

There were kids still. I don't think anybody knows when they have their first child what to do, you know. But, and I did it to myself. I can't just blame them because I could have not paid attention and not done it. I took it right on. I took all of that pressure on. You know, you have a choice to do that too. Even when you're young, you want to please.

I always wanted to please my parents so much, almost to, a fault, almost to the point where it became self-destructive for me later on. This episode is brought to you by prize picks. You and I make decisions every day, but on prize picks, being right can get you paid. Don't miss any of the excitement this season on prize picks where it's good to be right. I've been on the app since the start of this season and it's honestly the most fun way to follow football. You can lock in a lineup in under 60 seconds and it keeps you engage every play. Here's what I'm going to. with this week. Derek Henry, more rushing yards. After that fumble against the bills in week one,

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Yes. Tell us about after high school. Well, I ended up getting introduced to narcotics due to an atopic pregnancy that ruptured right after high school. I met someone that was involved in the record industry. and I ended up meeting a whole bunch of people and getting my things where it needed to be. So I got signed right from college. So, and you just get plunged into that world.

So it changed really quickly. When I had surgery, I got so enthralled with being able to have narcotics. And at that time, my father was still alive, and I shared those with him. So we were able to have a whole new friendship and it became involved with partying. my father and I.

Was the pregnancy intentional or? No. I was getting, I was with someone. We were getting engaged. But it was not intentional at all. I didn't even know I was pregnant. I was five months along.

Five months without even realizing? Without knowing you still have your period. I was four and a half, four and a half months. And then I started to bleed. My friend found me unconscious. And they rushed me to the hospital. I had a BP of 60 over 30.

So the priest came in to give me my last rights, which I refused. because I knew in my heart I was going to be okay. And I thought if I gave in to have the last rights, it was my way of saying I'm ready to die. And I wasn't. Like, I already knew I saw, like myself later. Because you have all these weird moments when you're at that time.

And I was at that time. So I had 18-hour surgery that day. And I had 27 more after that. How old were you at the time? I was 21 when that happened. So by the time I was 30, I was operated on 27 more times and extremely addicted to narcotics. Who is the guy with your fiancé or the guy you were engaged to?

Don Dempsey. He was the son of the senior VP of Epic Records. And your parents approved of the marriage? Yes, very closely with their parents. They did a lot of things together. Everybody went out together. They all, even with my father-in-law's work, all the work people from the company. would come to my house and it was great.

It was like a family family back then. And that record company is what you were assigned to? Yes. No, I was signed to a subsidiary one that's underneath the same umbrella. So somebody from there got a hold of my tape because it was very easy to get in the right hands at that point for me. So it was just dropped in the right place at the right time. Somebody found it and I got lucky. I got a call from Cindy Lopper's producer Frank Rand one morning and said that my contract would be

getting in a studio. So what happens when you get signed, especially at that age? Oh my God. I just was so excited on that moment. I mean, literally my legs gave out and I was like, this is it. You know, I was so young and I didn't do all the things you were supposed to do. Like have an attorney come and check your stuff and, you know, you don't ever sign it right away. And I was like, where do I sign? Where do I sign? So I signed everything away to the label. I signed all my master's without even knowing. And you were given money up front? no no I was not they paid for everything and they took me everywhere and they paid for all my promotions and they you know I was mined and dined all over and introduced to a lot of different

people which you know allowed me to do a lot of other things with my career but um what happened was is Sony came right in right after that and so my record ended up being shelved I had like my 15 minutes of fame in that um but you know from there I got, you know, the people that I got to me allowed me to do many other things and get involved. I went to Minneapolis, actually, right at that time, when CB, right after CBS had done that and come in and taken that. And I was doing some work here, doing a lot of studio work, doing playing some bands, but I wanted to get clean. I needed to take him off that medication. So the record deal came after the pregnancy or before? The record deal came during.

During the pregnancy. It was all happening at the same time. So is this where your life starts to unravel? Yes. So tell us more about the pregnancy and what exactly happened. So back then there was no, nobody knew when you were getting meds. So it was very easy to doctor shop. And I became a really pro-doctor shop, became addicted to those men again.

I was in so much pain. I was so blown apart. And I'm very small. So to have a baby explode and then have 18 hours of surgery behind it, You know, the doctors will give you whatever you want. So they were sending me in the mail prescriptions of 100 milligrams of Demerol hundreds at a time. So I became addicted really young and then I would get off it. And then I'd have need surgery again because I'd grow cysts and I had demetriosis.

All these things were happening as a result of being cheloid inside. So I had all the scar tissue that was growing and growing. And then again, your addict's telling you, well, your doctor is given to your scripts. So keep taking it. it gives you every reason to stay on them. And it also, all the things that were wrong with some of the things I hadn't dealt with it growing up, it gave me the mechanism to shut it off. If I'm feeling uncomfortable and oh my God, I'm remembering something that happened,

I could just take this pill and everything goes away. It's such a quick fix. You know, it's so many times in this world, nobody wants to feel uncomfortable moment. And that's what I've learned as an adult and as I've aged a lot. all of this, is that you can be uncomfortable for a second. It's okay. You're going to make it through. Or I feel like when I was younger, you had, oh, just take this pill. This will make it go away. It was the norm. Nobody really looked twice about it if you took pills. If it was prescribed, if it was prescribed, it was like it was okay. So I had to deal with the fact I had two more

miscarriages after that. One had a stillborn in my hand and the other baby died after that. and I just, I didn't want to be addicted to the medication anymore. So my parents sent me to the Mayo Clinic. And I ended up having a full hysterectomy. So I had everything removed. And so that was another thing to deal with is being 29 years old and having no body parts. I mean, they had to take out everything because it was so bound up with scar tissue. My hair, it was, scar tissue was bound to my hips everywhere.

So if I didn't want to be addicted to medication, it was going to be the only answer. How did your parents react to that? first miscarriage? My father did not pay attention to it at all. It was very easy. My parents had a way of pretending things weren't happening, so they didn't have to face it. My mother was by my side for that first one.

For the hysterectomy, and when I had to get everything removed, I was completely alone. Nobody showed up. What about your marriage? Did that start to unravel? It unraveled immediately. immediately.

And he also gave me an ultimatum as well. So it was either going to, he asked me to choose my career or him. And I've been playing piano since I was three, so that I packed that night. Why would he want you to give up your career? I don't know. It's a great question. I think he felt threatened by it. I think because I was traveling and I was doing a lot of different things.

and, you know, he just, he knew what it was going to be like to be the husband of somebody like me. And I don't think he wanted to buy all that. Why did your dad start to turn towards drug use? His childhood. He had a horrible, horrible childhood. And I don't think he ever dealt with it, ever, would never talk about it, would never speak of it. He was an alcoholic and turned to pills with that because he would call me up and ask me what pills I had. But he was so successful.

He was brilliant. He retired. at 35. I mean, he was a smart, smart, smart man, but he couldn't find a way to be comfortable in his own skin, you know, he couldn't. And I was so afraid I was going to turn out like him. I quit drinking when I was 30, but I still stayed on those pills because the doctor was still prescribed. Not 30. Yeah, I got sober when I was 30 and I stopped drinking when I was 30, but I ended up going back onto the pills when I had problems with later on in life. When the doctors took me off everything, I was still in so much pain. My friend brought

over heroin and said, you know, this will help you, try this. And that's when I went from pills to heroin. So 21 years old, you have the first miscarriage. You start to get hooked on this medication. What's going on with your career at the time? I was playing all over, still playing. It was cool to be high then. That was heroin sheikh days in the early 90s. So it was cool. you know, as I got up into my 20s, so through my 20s, you know, it was like through the 80s and everybody was doing cocaine. That was a cool thing. It was totally accepted. People were doing out right on the bars back then. Like you'd be sitting in a bar and people would be cutting up lines on the bar and no one would think twice of it. And like that just does not happen now.

It was a very different vibe in the world in the 80s into the 90s. And then when I start right before, when I was struggling to get clean through the 90s, 91, 92, I'd stopped drinking. My father died in 92. So I was struggling all of then to get cleaned, but it was cool. I had record labels. I had Atlantic Records was actually coming down to see me then and was interested in a band I was in called Johnny and now. And we were all shooting dope. And they would bring us, Atlantic Records was fine with that. They didn't realize what was going to happen when people started to tour and got sick. and they realized it real quick during that time. I think between the 90s and everybody that was signed to subpop

and had problems with the same drugs, had the same problems touring. So I was involved with a lot of that horrifying addiction of getting out of that. So I tried to go get methadone to help myself out of it. And I became addicted to the methadone as well. So now I own it all. Pay off your home. Travel for life. Drive a Ferrari.

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Book it with Price Line. Download the Priceline app or visitpriceline.com. Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. I had two addictions going. How'd your dad's death affect you? my father's body stopped working at 44 from the abuse and from developing hemochromatosis from a blood disease that we have and it was one of the worst times of my life to have him be gone because he was my protector he was like you know he brought all of the he was my foundation and even though he had

let me down as a young person there was still that hope that he was still loved me you know my dad still loves me never let anything happen that same guy that that watched me sleep. You know? My mother was my biggest cheerleader, though. So I have to say that, you know, as much as I loved my father, I miss her so much more

because she was always my cheerleader. And same with my grandmother. I was closest, I think of everybody to my grandmother. My grandmother believed no matter what I would make it. They were always really behind my career. I would be doing a show. I did Rod Stewart and I was there as Rod Stewart as someone that was a runner on the stage for a live show.

And I would text my mom and I'd be, I'm on behind the tree on stage left. Like, turn on channel five. So she turned on channel five. And I'm like, I'm sticking my foot out. You can see my foot. I'm texting her. It's like, silent. I put my foot out.

And I'm like, she's like, your left foot is famous. You know, she'd be like all excited. So those were things that they could be really proud of me on. And they weren't really understanding that I was still struggling with some stuff on the inside that I had to get through. So she would never talk. about that stuff, they would always talk about all the good stuff, you know. Would you have considered yourself successful in your 20s in the music industry?

Yeah, I would. I got, we, I did a lot of, a lot of really great shows. I got to work of Boyster Colt with EZO, Brittany Fox, a lot of really fun metal vans that I got to, actually would come on for 10 minutes in the beginning and I put all the keyboards. And that was when, like, you had to have 15,000 keyboards. I'm exaggerating, but, you know, so I would play like sideways. and I'd have to play up on something because I was so short, I couldn't even see over them. So if I could see my face. And then I had my guitar on

and the smoke coming off the stage that I'd be done. I would just do the intro because most of the metal bands were guys' bands. But I loved that job. It was a great job. And I got a lot of exposure and I got to be out there doing what I love to do. Why do you think drugs were so common and acceptable

in that era? I think that people didn't know what was going to happen. I think that it was setting a president. I don't think people know what crack in cocaine we're going to do to people's minds and to people's families, to people's cities, to people's communities. I don't think they knew the repercussions yet. I really, really don't. I don't think they knew what it was going to bring. And I think it was celebrated much differently than. I think the economy was different. So it looked very, it was like, it was like the rich man's aspirin. they used to call it.

But I think of it now and all it does is make me like nauseous. It really like physically makes me sick because I can think it through of all the destruction it caused to so many people that I know. And it's still causing. So you were saying around 30

you try to go get sober for the first time? Yes. Tell us about that. I did well for a minute. I did well for a minute. I relapsed. that was one that I went into that they made it really really the first one that my first treatment that I went into

they made it really really easy so they kept you on so much methadone on so much things so they didn't really have to deal with it and you got out and you were just sick all over again so I couldn't stay clean off that but the second time that I went I did I was able to I got I went back right away because I relapsed I think four months in I relapsed So, and I told my mother right away. I was like, I can't do this.

I'm not making it. I need to, like, go away, go away. And they sent me out to Minneapolis. And why Minneapolis out of all the states? They call it the land of the 5,000 treatment centers, not the land of 5,000 lakes. But they have a lot of really, really good programs. And it was way more advanced than New York City, believe it or not, with the way that they handle things. Because that old, that adage of tough love, I don't think that tough love works.

that tough love puts people and make them think that they're not worthy. And it really is the other way around. You need to know you're supported when you're getting to get help. You're feeling so shitty about, I know for myself, I felt, you know, especially after relapse, I beat myself up so badly. Like, how can someone so smart do this? How could, you know, everything, all these wonderful opportunities and all these things I've been handed and I'm throwing it all away.

And I needed to figure that out. I needed to learn coping skills. I never realized that that's what I was lacking the most of anything, was the ability to find something to calm myself down that wasn't a quick fix or wasn't going to be self-destructive. Nobody teaches you those. They're kind of no-brainers for us to learn. Everybody was so easy, so ready back then,

especially then, you know, your kids running around class, riddlin, put them out riddlin. You know, I feel like there's a whole generation that's addicted to Adderall. You know, I went back to school recently on a grant and was scared to death that I was going to be behind everybody because I talked to my counselor about it. Like, I'm like the only one in my class that doesn't have an Adderall prescription. Am I going to be behind? And he's like, you're doubting your brain.

And I said, well, I'm doubting my age first because I do have that. And I don't have that, you know, just got out of school head. I said, but that really first. frightens me that people feel like they need that to be to get ahead but I just I was like I'm just going to do me and get through it like the way that I've always done it and not worry about being artificially kept awake was it hard to still stay in the music industry while trying to get sober no not for me because I knew that it was going to take everything away if I kept getting high. I started to begin to learn how to keep it through. I think that I removed myself out a little more

than I would have if I stayed in. I became much more focused on where I was going and who was going to be there. And I always gave myself a way to go home to get out. Any kind of thing that I knew, if I felt uncomfortable, I left. And a lot of times, a lot of those places I would go by myself or just with one other person that knew my circumstance. Once I gave up drinking, I saw what it did to my father. It was really easy for me to never drink again. And I, you know, was when so many things that people were drinking, it doesn't bother me at all. I don't ever think I'm missing anything. It was such a bad look for me afterwards when I would see how people's behavior. And I never wanted to look like that again. I just kept picturing myself

looking that way and seeing women that were so beautiful coming in the beginning of the night and then seeing them drugged out leaving. And it was just horrifying to know I did that to my family and I did look that way to my friends. So I didn't want to go back there. I really, really didn't. So having the ability to think it through, I think was what made it work for me. And I also had the right people in place. I had the right people to call if I was feeling, you know, oh man I could really you know but the most of my biggest trigger was pain that was my trigger and not just physical pain from from the surgeries but emotional pain as well so I knew I needed to get to the bottom of that what do you think that was the hardest emotional pain you were struggling with one of them was not being able to provide the man that I love with a child it had come up it had destroyed relationships that I was with I had to learn how to still feel like a woman even though I had no body parts at all as a woman. I had to be, I've been on the same amount of Perman artificially since my 20s. One good point of that is I never went through

metaphors and I never had PMS. So there's like really good things about that as well that I look now. I'm like, whew-foo. But that was a really hard thing and I had to understand why that was happening. I understand now why. I have like a million kids. Now our friends that that need me there for them and I live alone. I will never live with another human again. It allows me to be the best person that I could be for myself for sure. So now that looking back on it and having the insight to see really helps me to understand and why the things unfolded the way they do.

I also had to get through with my father dying, with, you know, why he was self-destructive of why he treated me the way that he did when I, you know, why he wasn't there for me when I needed him. all of those forgiveness things. I had to forgive him for being an addict. I had to work on that. I had to forgive my mother for seeing the way he treated me and shutting the door and walking away and not doing anything about it. There was a lot of that that I had to do. But a lot of it, I think most of it was to forgive myself.

Because not until later did I realize the hell I put my family through. I trained them to not trust me. So now coming out of jail when they're questioning everything I do, every single thing still to this day. I can't be mad. How can I be mad? I set them up to believe this. So now the only thing I could do is arrive authentically and have my actions over the past five years and continue to do them, show them that this is the person I am. I never wanted to be around my family.

I was like always the one that was gone because I was high. You know, who wants somebody to be around your family and have to. fake not being high. I wasn't the responsible one. I'm now the person everybody calls because they know I'll show up. And I really like being her. I wasn't able to be her until I was able to find those coping skills. And unfortunately, my friend had to die in my arms for that, for me to get there. You know, I regret every fucking moment of that day. I really do. Um, you know, I feel like, you know, everything unfolded so I could have a lot. life because this trajectory has allowed me to be filled more than any drug has allowed me to be filled.

You know, my work with the ACLU up with the Capitol, they listened to me. They denied me parole this year because of the victim's family. So I could not pass even with everything that I've done, even with my nonprofits working with incarcerated people right now, writing music with people with lifers right now to get their voices out. They still would not let me go. But five days after they denied me, they surprised me in Hartford and called me up to Hartford. And it awarded me this gigantic, beautiful citation. You know, Rep Sastrum and Senator Winfield and a lot of the members of the General Assembly thanking me for all of my work. And it was a beautiful thing.

But I have to be honest, it felt a little bit like a Cracker Jock Prize, a little bit. Because where were you five days ago? because I right now, next week, I could be in juvie helping the kids, which I can't because I'm on parole still. Gentlemen, enter the room love muscle first. Blue Chewable tablets are like sending your love muscle to boot camp. Stronger, harder, longer lasting, like it's saluting at attention. Last time I took one, my girlfriend joked we should play the Olympic theme song.

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22 years off of heroin. So when you were 30, you got sober. And then when did you relapse? 53. At 53. And that was the incident that went to prison. So what happened at 53 that caused you to relapse? And what were you doing in between that time?

I was not I was still smoking weed so I wasn't like 100% sure when I say sober I say I met off all of opiates I was doing a lot of work in the dance club so I was still like a little bit of experimenting at that point so I didn't have a lot of feet grounded I didn't like you know we experiment a little bit with Molly and with ecstasy throughout the years because I got involved heavily with EDM music and doing that So again, I had to pull myself out of that as to stay sober currently since I've been out. You know, I go, you know, very, very few shows. But I stay connected in other ways through Zoom and through just showing up what I'll do is I'll wait until the end of the night and I sleep the whole night and I take a shower and I go out at like four in the morning when everything's getting ready to close so I can hand out, you know, my USBs. And I look like I'm just all shiny and I've been up all night.

You know, like I've been up all night and I'm still shiny and I've really only been up about an hour and a half. But that's my way of keeping myself safe now. So I'm not, you know, I'm not engulfed in that world because that's a little harder for me to be up and dancing. And although I really don't sink myself into any of that stuff anymore at all, I don't need to be around people who do. So it's a way for me to say a lot of the people that I am, work with now are much, much older and have. have lived through it and are now sober anyways. You know, there are DJs who have been on the scene for, you know, decades. So it works much better for me that way. So that 20-year period, you didn't get in any trouble.

You were just focused on the music career. What happens at 53 then? The man I was living with for 12 years left. But not only that, he disappeared. So it's a really scary thing when you can't get a hold of somebody who you've slept next to you for 12 years and who you've loved so much. Really, really been deeply in love with. And I didn't know where he was. And I relapsed.

He just walked out? No, I knew he was going to do some things for himself for a little bit and needed a little bit of time, which was fine. We spoke of it. And he needed to do some little mental work for himself, which was fine. But he never came back. ever he came back like six months later showed about my door when it was not welcome six months later but i um i was not handling it well because he just cut me all he didn't call me he didn't i didn't know if he was dead or alive i really didn't i did not know he was considerably younger than me we were

together for a really long time did it feel like the first time that other your your first uh real love left you over the baby it did and it also felt like when my father let me down It's that abandonment stuff that kept coming up. That was the root issue. Absolutely. Absolutely. Again, somebody strong. Again, someone who I thought again, again, male who had my back.

And then right after that, I was violently attacked and raped by gunpoint and left to die. I was, my family doesn't know they're going to hear this now. Nobody knows. except Yale and my psych doctors. But they told me if I ever told him he's no longer alive now. So which is why. After all this time I can talk about it because he told me he'd kill my family if I talked about it. This was right after he left?

This was right after the guy left, yeah. And before you tried drugs again? This was right while I was relapsing. It just all came at once. So it just gave me more of a reason to get high. Why do you think your first instinct was to turn to drugs after that long of a time period? 20 years was a long time. Because I didn't want to feel anything and I knew that was the fix.

I didn't know what else to do at that time. Usually I play. I'll work out. I have those coping skills, but I didn't have enough feet on the ground and enough foundation and roots built underneath me to be able to carry myself through that ordeal and that trauma. I wish I did. I wish I knew what I knew now because I have those tools. but I didn't at that point.

And the only thing I wanted to do is to not feel it. And that was the quickest way I knew. And once that you do it the first time, once that needle goes in that first time, once you feel that again and you're in that low-level place, it gives you every reason to keep going and keep doing it. So I relapsed and then I relapsed very and reeled myself in very quickly. But you do go back out. You do. Just for whether it was not a very short time. what happens is when you have an addiction like that, you go right back. It's like, it's unbelievable how

fast you get your tolerance back. So like you're sick after a few days, which may not happen to somebody who is just trying it for the first time. It's as if your body remembers your brain remembers your most, your most intense part of your addiction of when you're the most strung out. I detoxed myself at home. It was so sick. I was like, I'm never doing this again. I'm never doing this again. They had put me on Xanax when my father died. My brother. had overdosed as well in 2005 on the same day my father died in 1992 so 1990 sorry yeah do you think addiction runs in your family yes absolutely absolutely my grandmother my father's mother was found dead after drinking alcohol she had broken her hip and was found dead on the floor she was eventually

she was an alcoholic it goes way back yes how long till it was it was it till you ended up in prison after that relapse weeks weeks because I went into Norwalk Hospital to get clean off of Xanax because I wanted off of everything. Once I kicked the heroin again when I had relapsed and I was only out for a little bit a couple of weeks. I was like I'm done with all of this and I went into Norwalk Hospital because I wanted off all the pill. I want everything. I just don't want anything anymore. I need to find out why I'm doing this. I don't have any more relapses in me. And I went to Norwalk Hospital, told them everything.

I said I went off the Xanax. they helped me get off that and I met the girl that died inside there. She had tried to kill herself on Oxys. She was a writer and wrote lyrics. And I said, man, we should get together. We got along great. We got along great. We got along great.

When she got out, she had called me and said she was trying to kill herself that day. Can she come over? She had some lyrics and she'd love to sit down and play the piano. I really wasn't in the mood to do that, but I was like, sure. And she came over and I wanted to write some music with her. and she told me she was in pain and she needed, she wanted to get heroin because she wasn't so much pain. And I was like, I gave it up.

I can't. Not doing that. We're not doing that. She says, if you don't get it, I'm going to go out and get it. If you don't go get it for me. Now, I'm in the middle of still detoxing from Xanax, so I'm not like thinking 100%, I'm not all sharp and on point, and I let her talk me into it.

And I went, and I did go get it. And I came back and hers had fentanyl. And mine didn't. How is that possible that one would have? I don't know. Was it the same batch that you guys? I got it from the same person. I got it from the same person.

I couldn't figure it out. That's what I didn't understand because I wasn't even really high. And I was not losing at the time. So it was a relapse time. I had used it such a short little time before for the couple weeks, but it was just, it wasn't like I was on a run. So I didn't have this gigantic tolerance, even though I felt like I did because I got sick when I without it, I didn't have it built up.

So when she died, I kept, I was pounding on her chest and pounding on her chest. And I did CPR. I'm with lifeguard. I was trained to do it. And I called 911 and they just couldn't revive her. How long does this all unravel from? Did you guys smoke it or inject it or? Snorted.

Snorted it? So from the moment she snorted it, how long does this all unravel? Five hours. So you guys are just sitting in your apartment? hanging out and then she got nauseous she went into to my bathroom and and um and i had a um a new apartment my new condo that i bought and um so she was like you know when you're nauseous and you put your head on like the tile how that tile feels on you it's nice and cool so she was like laying on that and i gave her a zofran under her under her tongue for nausea and i just kept coming in and

checking on her and she had looked like she had fallen asleep on on a pill and i and i went to check on her and I noticed blood coming out of her nose. And her lips were a little starting to turn blue and I realized she wasn't breathing. And I called and that's how it all started. And they arrested me for operating a drug factory because they said my house was too clean and I cleaned it and let her die.

Like that's how they wrote that up. They arrested you that same night when the ambulance came? No. They said to, they sat with me. I was sobbing. And they said if it wasn't here, she would have done it somewhere else. It's a good thing. Most people drag the bodies out so they're not in trouble. I was like, oh my God, it would never just my friend. You know, I would never think about that. And they were like, don't worry. I did not even know I was in trouble. Four months later, I was at the, I did a party for Governor Cuomo when people still liked him at the time. And I was coming back from New York City. I had designed a whole party for one of his campaigns. So I was coming back from Chelsea Pierce that I had done it. And they,

they told me it was just going to be a $500, I mean a $5,000 drug charge. That's it. And just go down and pay it. So I went down to pay at the station. And I went with, I went with a bondsman. I went $500 in my bondsman. And we just, like, I said, let me just get to take care of it right now. I stopped at a bondsman place, you know, explained my situation. And I said, I have 500 bucks on me. We said, can we just go take care of? He said, sure, we walked over. And they said, do you have $105,000. And I was like, no, that's not me. What do you know?

And they said, you're wanted for manslaughter. And I had no idea. I was like, I'll be right back. And I went to run because I panicked. I didn't get far. I didn't get far. Did she die before the ambulance get there? Yes.

So she was dead on the scene? She was dead. So now you're running away from the car. cops when you were going to turn yourself in for you thought was a lesser charge, what happens? Oh, well, someone scooped me like right at the door. They snagged me. I mean, because I freaked. I didn't know what was going on. Like, just to get hit with your wanted on $105,000 manslaughter charge. What? What? What? I started laughing because I was like, you got the wrong person. Do they end up giving you bail?

The DA came to see me at night first, an undercover guy all scruffed up and tried to get me to bring him to the guy's house and told me he'd have me home by 9 o'clock that night. When was the last time you felt in control of your business finances? Expenses tracked, invoices sent, taxes ready. That's where Found comes in. Found brings your banking, bookkeeping, invoicing, and taxes together in one simple app.

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No. And you didn't want to give him up? Hell no, I would never do that. Even though that he killed your friend? No way. I bought it. It was my responsibility. I couldn't do that to somebody.

That's not the right thing to do. I don't, clearly he's going to find out what happened because it was all over everywhere in the news. It was everywhere. I couldn't even, it got to the point, I couldn't even go up in front of the judge

because there was so much media frenzy. I'm sorry, I'm like a little Italian. I'm knocking everything ever with my hands. There was so much media frenzy that they were screaming murder, murder in the hallways, and the judge wouldn't let me. out of the cell. So not once did I ever go and sit up in front of a judge until the day I was

sentenced. Did you have survivor's guilt that you weren't the one that took those drugs that were laced? Yes. And survival's gratefulness at the same time. Because it could be me there and her up here sitting in this chair right now talking to you. It was whoever picked that bag. I put him on my dresser. We each pulled one. Now, had you bought from this individual before? Yes. And it's always, there was never fentanyl. Never. Why do you think this time was different? Do you think he knew what he was doing?

No. I don't. Not at all. I don't. Did that contribute to why you didn't rat him out? Yes. And I knew he had a lot of kids. That was another reason why.

They needed him. Why do you think at that moment you didn't want to save yourself? I feel like most people would. I wasn't raised that way. You just don't do that. What's the deal they end up offering you, or do you go to trial? My first offer was 25 years. I had four attorneys, two that were hired and two that were their wives that helped along on the case.

I got three years. That's what we settled on. It was actually 10 years for each charge. One was for man two. The other charge was for operating a drug factory. So freaking ridiculous. They ran concurrent. Three to serve, seven special parole, which I'm on now.

Did the victim's family speak at sentencing? Yes, for 45 minutes. Did she have a big family? Yes. How old was she? 22, much younger than me. And you were in your 50s at the time. How hard was that sentencing hearing?

Horrible. to hear that I want you to suffer. I want you to know what it's like to feel this pain. I want you to stand in front of your maker and have him tell you what a horrible human being you are. That's how it went. Do you genuinely believe that if she wasn't at your house that night she would have been somewhere else doing the same thing?

Yes. I do. That's what she came to my house. to do. She was on a mission. I met her because she tried to kill herself. I played back in my head a million times and if I didn't, if I just said no that day, if I just told her how I really felt and didn't really feel like having to, if I put myself first and listened to my own what I wanted for myself. But I could, I could do what it could have should is forever. And what I really need to, you know, realize that as soon as I go into that mode is I need to take myself out and think about what

she would want for me, you know, what she would want to see me doing? And what my mother, who passed, I was up for release for parole. And the victim's family came in and flipped. And it was to go say goodbye to my mom before she died. And she died three days later when she found out I wasn't coming home. She called, I had called her and she asked me and I told her how it went. And she asked me at that point if it was okay if she if she died she was going to let go so that was it was the last time i spoke to her and you never got that closure with her no i never got to see her she didn't want me to go she didn't want to see me like that um and and you know they put you in that black box and put you in a um chains in a wheelchair and cover your hands and she didn't want me to see her like that

and she didn't want to see me like that. We wanted to remember each other in a different way. My family didn't want me around there either as well. So I respect that. I wish I could have said goodbye in person. Do you ever think about what would have happened if the man that you were with didn't leave you and you never relapsed?

Do you think about that? Yes. I think I would still be a very, very unhealthy woman. I don't think I ever would have taken this time to figure out what it was that was keeping me destructive, it was keeping me unhealthy, which was keeping me attracting the same sick people. I'm not her anymore. You know, it's like I'm,

it's like comparing me as like trying to, you know, go back to my whole house. I don't live there. It's like I'm just, I've really gotten out of, out of it by going through those moments of being uncomfortable and figuring out why I was doing the things I was doing.

You know, why do I why can all these other people navigate so easily through life and I'm supposed to have this like you know great IQ or being able to get out of school and I can't I can't make ends meet I can't figure out how to get out of my own way I was in my own way all the time so being learning to settle myself down how to find quiet in the stillness how to count my breaths how to stick my feet in the sand. How to, instead of waking up in the morning and going through all the things that are wrong, I'm like, oh my God, I have this beautiful place around me.

I have great friends in my life. I have this ability to write music. How lucky am I, I start going through those. And those are a conscious effort I had to take. Because I'm like, you know, I think it's kind of human nature. You wake up and you're kind of like, you know, you get that, those moments of clarity of when that lucidness when you first wake up in the morning of, you know, what's going on today, okay. And so you can take that breath. And I was really so stuck in all the things that

were wrong instead of everything that was right. Tell us about prison. I never knew nothing about prison. I didn't know that you were, you had books. I didn't know what that was about. I didn't know that people, um, were still racist as bad as they were. It was like a small, microcosm of what it's like back to here, but 40 years ago. So I was really, when I came on that scene, I was so wide-eyed and I was putting money on people's books. Every single person, I had, I had naive like a neon sign on my forehead. Take advantage of me, please. Because I just didn't know. I really was, I thought I had seen everything and I thought I was all worldly and I'd been all over, you know, all these different great places.

And I had, you know, performed with all these huge rock stars. And I was like, I, you know, I know it all. And I had no clue about anything at all. So when I first got there, I used the restroom, the bathroom. I was stomach sick. And the food was horrendous. And I went and ran to the bathroom because I was sick. And it was during count.

And we were at, they put the overflow in the, gym because there wasn't enough places for everybody it was illegal what they were doing and they had channeling news outside trying to film putting us all over on top because we were just on top of each other and all these like bunks that were falling apart with all blaring fluorescent lights on they're trying you know everybody's screaming and fighting and it was it was horrible experience to have to be put into that after when you don't even really know what's going on how your life's can unfold you don't know I'm looking at 25 years right now I'm so I got sick off the food I come to the bathroom. I come out and I hear, what? I hear this lady yell. Give me your badge now. I knew

a second. Like my stomach fell. I knew what that meant. I was like there. I'm fuck. Screw screw. Excuse me. I'm in big trouble. I'm in big, big trouble. So they came and they grabbed my ID and they told me to pack up my stuff. I was going to the hole. Now everybody's calling me. I got a nickname when I was in there. big stature herself they started calling me big out right from the beginning so now you hear everybody yelling big oh don't take big out in there right so there's these four gigantic COs that come to grab me and like it's so overkill because like i'm not 110 pounds right now soaking wet so they got my arms behind me and they're pulling up my head's down now i'm mad so i'm picking up my head because

I'm mad. No one's going to take me. And I got all my friends screaming, don't take her. So the harder I fight, the harder they pull up because they want my head down and they take you through that walk of shame all through all of the different units to Seg. And I get there and this girl's there and she's like, the first person I see her nose is like sprawled across her face, like flat, all bloody, flat. And now the COs, I have to be a little careful. because I am still on parole. So if I have check out for a minute, you'll know why if I say, oh, I can't go there. Okay, so I'm going to go with this one.

So the CEOs are now placing bets on if they put him in the cage who would win if they fought. Now, I can't believe what I'm hearing and how everything is unfolding. Like, they're literally trading money, placing bets to put these two girls and let them fight it out in a cage. And that was our wreck cage was like a dog cage, that we had to go in an hour a day. They let us out between 5 a.m. and 6 a.m. When it was that right about, I don't know, maybe 10 degrees out in the winter? Yeah, so I didn't go outside. How long were you in the hole for?

I was in the hole for a week, and I was not allowed my glasses. I was not allowed anything. The books that they gave us for pieces of books. They weren't even whole books. They were like, and I wrote a story about this. They were like representative of who we were. There was books with no beginnings and books with no endings and books. and they wouldn't give me my glasses to read the damn book.

So I sat by myself and you know what I did. I wrote a song. And I sang it and I sang it. And every day I sang it. And I sing over and over and over. Because I couldn't have a pen. I couldn't write. I couldn't do anything.

There was the only way to remember it. And mental health came like the third day in of me singing it and asked if I needed help. And I was like, I don't need help. And it was over the weekend. And sure enough, on the Monday morning, I hear them taking the girls to the bathroom. And I hear someone going, I did it. I got a ticket now I'm going to SIG. And I was like, that's my song.

You know what? I'm all excited. Now everybody starts singing with him. Now the whole unit is singing the song that they've heard me sing for three years, three, I'm sorry, three days straight. So they know all the words. It was amazing, honestly. That was my trajectory of life changed at that moment. Because I got to witness a whole bunch of girls discover what it felt like to be connected,

to be creative and to be singing together. It was like for that moment, I felt hope. And for that moment, I could tell I was healing. And if I was, so were they. And that's when I knew that I had something there. Like something's with this. And I became the girl that wrote a sex song. I would hear C.O. saying,

how weird it is to be going down a hallway in here singing out of going, I did it got a ticket. It was pretty cool. So that whole experience, it was able to make something good out of it in the long run, like to this day. And I use that as an example. And now I'm able to, you know, go back and forth online. I'm on core links and, you know, getting rap lyrics from guys that are never going to come out. And if I could get a link, you know, my link posted of me creating the songs for them, for their family, it's all about connection.

People need to feel that connection to feel hope. We're treated so poorly in there, the things that they take away from us. We had water, a water main break. We were allowed eight ounces of water over a 24-hour period. That's it. And the CEOs were drinking the stuff that was donated. And the only reason why I know is because I didn't have a lock on my door because I was the laundry workers. So I was able to, I had a lock on my door.

my door was able to be popped because I was the laundry worker so I could move in and out. What security prison did they sent you to? Maximum security. That was because of your charges? Yes. There's only maximum in here,

but there's like a linear version of it in York and Iantic. What type of women were in this prison with you? What kind of charges? Well, the most horrendous charges that you could think of. I mean, you know, there was a lot of murder charges.

There was a lot of women that had very sad charges. There was a lot of self-defense charges. And we don't have that in Connecticut anymore. So a lot of women who had put up getting beaten for years that had finally killed their attackers and killed their abusers where I was in prison with. And they were lifers or in for at least 30 to 40 years. There was a lot of women that were in there for white collar crime, for more from white collar crime for fraud, fake, doing fake things.

A lot of, there was some really horrendous things that were done with jetting money away from Niant, from, I'm sorry, from the Sandy Hook thing. So I had some really horrible, horrible charges for diverting money from all those funds and things like that. So they have that white collar. But there was a lot of gang members in there, a lot of gang members that were in our sergey for a long time and they used to stick him in SIG and in the whole. whole and how do you expect people to heal when you're separating them and they have no connection?

It's impossible. It's impossible to be in those conditions. You're freezing cold. You have a threadbare blankets and you expect people to live for decades in there. It's just, it's, it's so dehumanizing. It's so degrading. It's, they film us naked when you go to Segg. Where do those films go? We're trying to, I'm up at the Aesil you right now trying to. to stop that, trying to get them to put in something to stop all of the strip searching. Stop all the strip searching. They have never once, in the history of Nyantic, found anything when people were going from General Pop to say, not one time if they found a weapon or drugs.

When they come in, oh, sure, that's a different story. But going moving from just from unit to unit and having to keep taking your clothes off and putting back on. And then you have COs that are commenting on your body parts. and that's not normal and not fair and not have anything to do with helping people get better at all. And then we found out that they were doing it to the kids that they were training the kids up at Cheshire.

So we started to go, I got with Barbara Farah from solitary, from sob solitary, and started going up in front of Cheshire to get them to stop having solitary confinement. We needed to stop. There's no reason to chain a 13-year-old kid up. There's serious mental issues and things going on that's not going to be solved with chaining them to a,

So that was a big, big mission of mine, and she did get that pass. So that's finally passed. Now it's just getting it to work, the action of it behind it. So there's so many things that they sign off on that they say they're going to do for formerly incarcerated people that get out, eliminating charges, taking boxes out of going to school, taking boxes out of finding a job, taking that check box out of finding an apartment to make life just a little bit easier to get them reintegrated. and they say they're going to do it, but nothing's ever put into place. So even when the things get signed off on, we still have to be there to watch. They're implemented because that's what I want to see now is the change.

I told those girls. I told way more than one of those girls that when I got out, I was going to fight for the things that they were going through. And they said to me, yeah, that's what everybody says. And I was like, yeah, and I'm not to everybody girl. And I remember those words I said to them. And I feel like an obligation. I really, really do. If now that I'm out and I have the platform and the voice and able to make some music to kind of bridge the barriers of people that may not maybe not want to listen to this, these are uncomfortable conversations.

Not everybody wants to hear about this. My family sure doesn't. But maybe if I can play some music or do some creative things, people will be willing a little bit more to hear what I have to say. So I'm really trying to be the person I told him I would be and do the action that I'm expecting. Our people that are representing us, our senators, our reps in this state are telling us that they're going to do. I'm trying to be that person, you know, without being a politician because I do not. No. Every time I walk into the Capitol, I'm like, that the games begin because that's really what it is.

it's a big game. But if I am complaining about it and not doing anything about it, I'm a hypocrite. I can't be her. You know, I spent so much time in my life looking for the right person instead of just becoming the right person. Do you think females are treated worse in prison than men? I think when females are taken advantage of in prison. I've watched it. Tell us about that.

Females are given drugs and females are given cosmetics. Females are given undergarments by CEOs in exchange for sexual favors. And I don't think that happens in men's prisons at all. No, they don't sell undergarments on commissary. Why would they want to do the trade? Because a women would want a really pretty victorious secret bra to come in for her to wear than a Bob's Barker

bar that's you know doesn't fit her right so the CEOs would come in with all pretty little trinkets for the girls that they can't buy

on commissary and that's the main difference from males who don't want a fancy underwear pretty much I don't think the men can be enticed

with sex like women were enticed with sex I think it's much easier for them for them to get taken advantage of by the CEOs

and that the men to get taken advantage by a CEO. I also think that I think the men stand behind each other much more than the women do. And I think the men take matters into their own hands where the women are so, you know, quick to tell on each other. They don't, it's, it's very catty and very, it's like high school. It's like high school, like, you know, it's just a lot of really people that need mental health. That's really what the key is, is people that need to learn coping skills and have mental health. And there's no, their quick fix in theirs to just lock somebody up and to SIG and shut the door and shut the lights off. And they also over, they over-medicate.

They over-medicate everybody at night. They just want to put everybody to sleep and put them down. So they have med calls 7, 8 o'clock. And people are sound asleep so they can sleep through the night. What do you think are the top things a woman needs to know to survive a woman's maximum security prison? I think she needs to know to stay in her lane. I think she needs to know to never ask anybody while they're there. That's a big no-no.

I think she needs to know the level of mental illness around, so you learn to have some compassion. Because the women that picked on me the most, the women that came after me the most, were the women that were the most hurt and the women that were in there for the most serious stuff. of the women that had the most problems. I was in one unit one day before they had switched me out, and I was the only white girl in the unit. And they had put four units out at once. There was another white woman that had come and sat next to me.

And I'd gone over to look for something before I sat down to actually get, I had brought up pieces of cloths that we had used to clean with. They were at grip sheets. So I stashed some out there. So I didn't have to sit down the ground. And I went to go ask a girlfriend. looked at me and she was like on the other side of the fence and she was not white and she looked over at me and it was very racist and I didn't understand because I've never I don't feel that way so she was like all right I'm not giving you shit and she used another some more expletives in there and I was like oh whatever I'll just sit on the ground so I'm sitting on the ground and this girl comes up to me we had just these taco jar taco sauce jars that you got in commissary feel like this high right so um it was empty and she had filled it with water and she walked right over to me and took the top off

and dumped it right over my top of my head. And it was like, you know when the, you know when I'm watching a show and the record scratches and like everyone in the room was like, it was like that. It was like everybody got quiet and all I heard was like

this concoffiny of, oh shit, oh shit, oh, dude, you see that? Like you could see this whole like symphony of everybody's little exorcets come out and I just sat there and I'm all wet and my hair is like, I look like a drowned rat and I'm sitting in my friends like, don't do anything.

I said, oh, I, yes, I have to. I can't just not do anything. So I waited, and the girl got up underneath the camera, and I just simply kind of, just a little nicely softly walked behind her, and she didn't see me. And when I was right behind her and she was under the camera,

I ducked down low and ran full force as fast as I cut at the bottom of her legs and took her right up, and she hit the ground. And then it was really good to hear everybody like, oh, Mark! And everyone's like flipped out, and like, now they're gathering, and around us and she's on the ground and I'm looking over. And I know I'm screwed because she's really big. And I just haven't to, like I got it right off her balance because I'm small. So I got her right behind her knees.

And she goes, you know you really effed up, right? And I said, yep, I'm standing over and she stood up. And she grabbed my shirt. And she threw me down and knocked the wind out of me. And I like, I open up my eyes. And now I'm laughing. And she's laughing. And she put her hand out.

And we ended up being like the closest to friends ever since that day. But nobody ever messed with me again. And that's what I had to stop. I had to stick up for myself or I knew that at that moment was like, there's a defining moments in prison and those times. And even though I was considerably older than her and smaller, she was pushing me. She was going to see what she could get from white lady. I had it very, very good in there a lot better than most people.

So my commissary days were very large. And I stayed safe by, you know, feeding the people that I had to need to protect me. And that's what I did. I kept everybody. And I would tell women that too. Make sure you have your people in place. So do you feel like you had to pay for protection in prison? Absolutely.

How would you go about that? Find out everything that people liked because I also worked for the gym. So working for the gym allowed me in charge of fit wreck. Fitrek does not stand for fit wreck. It stands for free inmate time. It sells all the things that they don't sell the regular people that you have to be ticket free for over a year. So it was more for the long people, not people that were just had like small. stints. You had to be there for a minute. So your ticket free for over a year, you can come to FitRack. And FitRack, they sell a lot of things they don't sell on commissary. And because I worked there, my boss would give me like a hefty bag and be like fill it. Just take it back to your cell. So all of the things that the people couldn't buy, like the laundry girl loved sunflower seeds. She couldn't buy them. So I would come with five sunflower seeds. So I knew my laundry was done first and folded. So I like, I sent myself up like you would in real life. Like,

And I literally traded coffee for protection. I had, you know, girls that would, you know, stand in my doorway. It's crazy. But that's what you need to do. Like, you need to learn to survive. If you knew that things were getting tough, you know, I also, as soon as I got there, I found out that you were able to get a greyhound in your room. If you were able to get to the east side, which was a little less.

So that was like, I had these missions of things that I wanted to do that I would try to manifest for myself. That I would like, I'm doing that. I'm going to find myself every way possible. Ready or not, summer is coming, and Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance is on now. Right now through May 25th, get up to 70% off everything home at Wayfair. Plus, score amazing doorbuster deals all sale long and surprise flash deals on Memorial Day. We're talking thousands of products at every style and budget. Now is the time to save big on must-habs for your patio, backyard, and beyond.

These savings won't last. So don't wait. Shot Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance now through May 25th. So the last eight months that I was there, I got a greyhound in myself. What did you learn about yourself at prison? What did I learn about myself? I learned that I had no coping skills previously and that I was able, if I could get myself to sit and be quiet and be quiet and learn to be uncomfortable for a moment, that that was going to be the way I was going to be able to survive the rest of my life without. relapsing and dying because it's really gotten to the point where it's live or die out here for an opiate

use disorder person. It is. And I had to learn to live with pain. So I had to like really concentrate on finding different coping skills. And I learned that I wasn't giving myself enough credit for having my own back. You know, I always felt like I needed something else to make myself feel better without ever knowing that I just had to remember how to do it for myself. So I really learned to slow down. I think that was the most the thing I spent so much of my life running and running and have to do more

and more and better and I have to be best in this and I was getting in my own way and I was tripping myself up instead of allowing myself the grace to do it the right way. Looking back on it, would you rather be younger in prison

or older in prison? Older in prison. Why? Because people are, they respect you a little differently and they look at you a little differently. I think hearing something from my mouth as an old, there's not a very lot of very older ex-harijuana addicts. They don't make it.

So it, I was a little bit of a unique demographic. I think for, for me to help someone, maybe help out of something that I've already learned, it's easier to take it and hear it from someone who's maybe your mom's agent, not your mom, than it is from your peer. I think you hear it differently. I don't think you hear it as, you don't hear it like a threat. You don't hear it like, um, a competition thing, you hear it as more of a motherly or nurturing advice when it comes from someone a little bit older. And I think for me, all I wanted to do is to help others because that was what I was realizing was filling me up actually more than drugs did, is how I felt when I made a difference in someone's life. You know, it really did it. It, everything started to

make sense of why things unfolded the way they did. And it allowed me more empathy of an understanding of having to live the way that you live in jail. How long did you end up serving and said? Three years. You did the full three? Yeah. No early. No.

I think I had one month early. It was 20, 35 months. What was the hardest thing that you found coming out of prison? Not having my mother there. Not having the support of my family at that time because they were afraid. They were afraid. So they were supportive from a distance And I don't blame them like I said

I also came out and one week later We were locked down for COVID So do you think that made it easier? That made it so much harder. That noise, it was, the silence now is beautiful. The silence then was deafening Because I was so I was like an infant.

I didn't know what was going on. A lot of change in three years. It doesn't seem like a long time but it really is and a lot of changed. My family, everybody went on without me. I didn't want to be around some of the people that I was around, but I still had a lot of my close friends that had, you know, are good people and they were doing the right things that I wanted to be around,

but nobody could see each other. So it was a really difficult time for me to navigate. I got my family, I had to remember that just because I had the time to take time to get better, then not, excuse me, not everybody else did. So do you think it's harder to rebound after prison when you're older or when you're younger? I think it's harder to rebound when you're older. I let everybody know straight up. I learned that right away that I had to tell people that I met right away what my history was because everybody Googles you.

They really do. And I just wanted to be my authentic self. But it was much harder coming out. I felt that people aren't as willing to give you another chance when you're old. or they felt like I should have known better, and I should have. I, you know, I had my attorney asked me that, you know, he said to me, why, what would ever in God's name make you do that? And I was like, I was still detoxing myself.

I was still sick myself. Just because you're not using too at the time, doesn't mean your head is not still in that mode. And that's what I had to realize. After you realize also when you're in jail is that, you know, I may have made the decision to get better. It doesn't mean everyone else around me has made this. same decision. So you really have to keep all those eyes open and ears open. And you know,

you become so vigilant. You become so super vigilant. How are you able to rebuild? I was able to rebuild by reaching out to the people that had worked with me inside. I'd work with some music and they with a music company. They hired me before I got out. So that helped. And it was really, I had to rebuild by seeing what was available for me as for grants at the time. I had no money. My mom had passed and lived control of my money to my family and they were worried. Of course, they didn't want to give it to me being that I had relapsed before I'd gone in. I did go in clean though. It was just like that one time day with her, but still like, you know, and I don't blame them again. I was able to rebuild by using my story and telling my story and showing people what I did to

get through it. So I got hired by Yale Divinity School and I did a semester with them on how my prison story related to Dante's Inferno, Longfellow's interpretation of Dante's Inferno, and to write a piece on maybe a section of it that I could relate to that I felt was a way that Dante was expressing the same feelings. So we paired up with the students and that was their final was the performance. And it was fabulous to be able to do that. So I started doing more and more of that. And I'm doing that now in a lot of different colleges around the country. Being able to speak and do music in creativity, incarsal, and in formally incarceral situations, and work with the students.

So I'm doing that now with UNC as well, Chapel Hill. If you ever had the urge to use drugs again, what would you do in that moment? I would reach out to someone that I know that's clean and in the same position in my or reach out to my therapist. I had two surgeries recently, and I asked them to put an allergic to opiates around my wrist. And I did both of them with nothing because I was scared. I was scared. Why do you think this time around you have the strength and willpower to understand that, whereas you never had that before? Because I took the time to find out why I was being destructive.

I took the time to forgive the people that hurt me. I took the time to forgive myself and to learn other coping skills instead of having to reach out for that. And it's life and death right now. There's too many, it's scary out there. I want to be, I feel like from everything that has led me to this moment

is for me to set an example that you can get through it. So I think I'm more determined because of that. I would never be able to look up. myself in the mirror or face myself again if I went back on that because it's how I've really come to feel comfortable on my own skin for the first time in my life

and if I can help someone that's in their 20s or 30s feel comfortable now instead of you know my age now I turned 63 two weeks ago. Happy birthday. Thank you. I think but I wouldn't have been able to say that a few years ago. Now it's just it is what it is

you know and I want to be able to help people from not having to go through and relapsing. I don't want anyone to relapse a 50 freaking three years old and do that to their family. So if I can help somebody and teach them some coping skills or teach them how much music can help them, how much creativity and expression of themselves and the freedom of expression can really, really help balance and process yourself. If I can really help people with that, then my jail time wasn't for naught.

It wasn't for nothing. And if I could go back and change anything of obviously it's going to be the death of my friend, I would not have her die. But at least this way, I can feel something came of it. I, you know, I didn't continue the behavior. You know, I'm trying to look for a, I am finding a way out. I don't have to look anymore. I am finding a way out. And the only way that you can really show somebody that is not by telling him.

I mean, the only way, yeah, is by your actions. You've got to show them. So if I'm not practicing the same things, it's not going to land. Do you think you'll ever be able to make amends with their family? No, I want to. They told me they'll never forgive me. They told me they want me to suffer every day of my life. And they just denied me my parole.

I had over 35 letters from all over the world of people asking, to please let me so I can do more work so I can get into this facility. so I can get in, it counted for nothing. And I have to accept that every day when I wake up, how much I've hurt other people. And that's one another really, really hard thing for me, that I can never take that back of how much destruction I put in my own family's life of theirs.

It's a lot to forgive. And that's a big weight on your shoulders. Huge. How do you continue to move forward with that weight? So that was a huge visualization project that I had done with my, that I did because I had to find a way out of it. Because I could feel even talking about it, it sits like right here. It sits right here.

It's a really hard thing to know that you hurt. Someone else is so bad and there's nothing you could do to turn that back. I pictured all of the mistakes that I made and I wove them. And I gave each of them a color. And I pictured me weaving and weaving and weaving a gigantic hammock. And I have now secured that hammock on each side to a tree. So I visualize that hammock holding me up of getting through all of those circumstances we've used to this beautiful hammock that I've allowed the space for in my life for me to rest

and lay my head. Because really when it comes down to it, the one that got me through all of it is me. Grateful, so freaking grateful for all the friends I've had because I wouldn't have been able to do it without their support. but I've woven them into my into my hammock. They're all woven in. They're the sparkle.

They're the bright colors in the hammock. So the dynamics of the darks and the lights and all of that is built such a strong foundation under me that I literally visualize that hammock holding me up and giving me power and strength. Lori, I appreciate you coming on the show today. Thanks so much for coming. Thank you for having me.

You did really well. I did. And thank you to Mary for connecting us. You're welcome. I appreciate you having me. I really, really do. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I hope it helped bring some closure to your story as well and was therapeutic for you. You know, every time you talk about it, and I hope she's at peace, and I hope their family can find some peace, but every time I talk about it, I heal a little bit more. So thank you for the safe space. Always.