Locked In with Ian Bick - I Worked Inside Nassau County Jail — Here's What Really Goes On Behind Those Walls | Officer Wayne James

Episode Date: September 6, 2026

Officer Wayne James studied criminal justice and psychology in college, always knew he wanted to work in law enforcement, and has spent four years as a correction officer at Nassau County Correctional Center — building a firsthand understanding of prison politics, inmate behavior, and the specific daily reality of what life inside a county correctional facility actually looks like from the officer managing it. In this episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, he shares what his upbringing gave him that protected him from going down the wrong path, what working inside Nassau County Jail really looks like, what prison politics and the culture behind slashings actually involve, what the difference between working with male and female inmates actually requires of an officer, and what building genuine respect from inmates actually looks like from the person who has to do it every single shift. _____________________________________________ #correctionalofficers #nassaucounty #truecrimestories #prisonguard _____________________________________________ Connect with Wayne James: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officer_waynejames/ Buy his Book: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Perception-Wayne-Daion-James/dp/B0H2X48VBT?tag=smgglusdsadts-20&ref=&adgrpid=195855865845&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=812900394363&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2786760930931149643&hvqmt=a&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9016137&hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&hvext=373771806062&hvcampaign=23946688003&hydadcr=17332_13842016_2502554&mcid=&hvocijid=2786760930931149643--&hvexpln=0&language=en_US _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction to Officer Wayne James 00:33 Growing Up in a Two-Parent Household 01:47 Martial Arts and Discipline 02:17 The Importance of Structure 02:58 Early Dream of Law Enforcement 04:07 Degrees in Sociology and Pre-Law 05:48 Applying Education on the Job 07:14 Balancing Professional Distance and Respect 08:38 Sharing Personal Background with Inmates 10:32 The No-Snitching Trap 13:02 Defining Snitching vs. Self-Preservation 14:56 The Cost of Not Taking a Deal 15:56 Discovering Snitches in Jail 16:29 Path to Corrections 17:24 Starting at Age 28 18:52 Nassau County Correctional Facility Overview 20:55 One Person Per Cell Policy 21:00 Safety Benefits of Single Cells 23:26 Countering the Buddy System Argument 25:16 Classification Issues in Prisons 27:21 Building More Prisons vs. Reform 28:29 Open Dorms and Gladiator School 29:51 The Culture of Slashing 31:05 Prison Politics and Rules 33:31 Psychology of Claiming Phones 34:18 Why Not More Phones? 36:34 Awaiting Trial and Conviction Rates 37:31 Court Accuracy in Bail Decisions 38:56 Genuinely Bad People 39:59 Encounter with an MS-13 Leader 41:21 Interacting with Violent Offenders 42:24 Fear and Self-Defense 43:52 Officers Killed by Inmates 45:07 Power Trips and Bad Officers 47:44 Female Officers Supervising Males 50:55 Female Inmate Charges and Behavior 52:00 Evil in Women vs. Men 53:39 Wrongful Convictions and Evil Acts 54:13 Central Park Five and Prison Trauma 55:29 Shower Safety and Surveillance 56:33 Need for Standardized Prison Operations 58:03 Overtime and Officer Safety 59:04 Why Not Hire More Staff? 59:55 Pay and Overtime Addiction 01:01:19 Consequences of Refusing Overtime 01:01:44 Notable Inmates: Nicki Minaj's Brother and Fentanyl King 01:03:43 Respectful Dangerous Inmates 01:05:11 Sharing Meals with Inmates 01:07:12 Chess and Double Homicide 01:08:31 Everyone Is One Accusation Away 01:10:45 Talented Inmates and Narrow Minds 01:13:30 Learned Helplessness and the Doll Test 01:15:45 Historical Oppression and Inferiority 01:16:50 Parenting as the Root Solution 01:18:12 Challenges of Single Parenting 01:20:15 Leaving Corrections for Policing 01:21:47 Inmate vs. Incarcerated Individual 01:24:29 Parenting as the Overall Solution 01:25:59 Should Police Work Corrections First? 01:27:43 Final Thoughts and Book Promotion _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka

Snitching is for people who break the law consistently and they're part of gangs and things like that. And then when they get caught, they tell to get themselves out of a situation. That snitching is overwhelming the amount of people that tell. My guest today is Officer Wayne James. For four years, he worked as a correction officer at the Nassau County Correctional Center. Today, he's revealing what life is really like behind the walls, from prison politics to violence and everything the public never sees. I come from a two-parent household. My parents have been together for over 40 years.

I have five sisters. I have four brothers. And my parents were very, you know, adamant about us achieving. And my mom was very firm on us doing well in school. And my father, you know, he taught me from a young age, a lot of, like, values. You know, I was six years old, my father was teaching me how to change a tire, tie, tie. And I feel like that was very, you know, vital in me becoming who I am.

How are you as a kid? What were you like? As a kid, I mean, it depends. You know, some to the one thing, I was, I didn't like people talking to me, like, in a disrespectful tone. So if another kid says something to me that I didn't agree with, you know, chances are we're going to have a problem. So, you know, that's something I had to learn to deal with as I got older. And as I got older, I started doing martial arts when I turned 18.

And that taught me the discipline and structure and how, and the more I learned how to really, really fight, the more self-control and self-discipline it gave me. because you don't use, you know, learning how to defend yourself to become aggressive towards people. You know, you use it to defend yourself. Now, do you think the way your dad and your family in general raised you was a big reason why you stayed out of trouble as a kid? Yes. A two-parent household is extremely vital to, you need that balance to keep kids out of trouble. You need structure. Most of the people I encounter.

as a correction officer and who I encounter now as a police officer, especially in that adolescent age, they come from a one-parent household. And that's why structure in a two-parent household is so important. And I try to stress that to people. You know, don't let your emotions cause you to leave a relationship that can be worked on because your kids are going to suffer. Did you know you want to get into law enforcement as a kid or would that come later on in life? Yeah, I knew as a kid I wanted to be a cop.

I actually, I wrote a note when I was a young kid. I was in like elementary school saying, you know, when I grow up, I want to be a police officer. You know what? Everyone says that as a kid. They want to be a police officer, a lawyer, a doctor. But I really knew because I kept to it. Like I stayed consistent with that idea. When I was in high school, I wrote down on a piece of paper, what if I could walk around all day helping people?

I was like, police officer. So I went to college for my associate's degree in criminal justice. And then when I was graduating with my associate degree in criminal justice, my academic advisor asked me, she said, well, if you want to be a police officer, you should get a degree in sociology. It's the study of human behavior. You can learn how people think and their behavior and why people do certain things. So then I got a bachelor's degree in sociology with a minor in pre-law. Now, do you think those degrees have helped you on the job throughout your years? 100%, because it allows you a better understanding of people.

You could be more patient. You know, sociology is very similar to, like, social work and psychology. I had a lot of those courses. So it allowed me to better understand people and not rush the judgment as to why they did certain things. And that's important in the field of law enforcement. So do you think all law enforcement officers should have this type of training or education? Yes, they should because you should understand different cultures, different environments. You know, and every background is different.

you know, everyone's upbringing might be different. There are different norms and different values. And when you understand people, you can better help them. So that's very important. I mean, you see it a lot now in law enforcement. I mean, and in politics, they've talked about having social workers come on certain calls. Now, I don't think that would be the safest thing for anyone, a social worker or the officers, because now you have to protect the social worker

and you also have to protect yourself and keep an eye on what's going on. But if the officer already had those tools themselves, then you could just eliminate having a social worker come on a call. So I feel like everyone should try their best to have that understanding and that education. Can you share with us an example of how that level of education has helped you in your law enforcement journeys?

I mean, yeah. I mean, from anything to when I was in, when I was a correction officer, you would have people who were suicidal. You will have people from, you know, all different religions, backgrounds. And I would have discussions with them on a deeper level because I could relate to them no matter what. You know, no matter their race, religion, I could relate to them and have an understanding of who they are because of my experiences

from my education and sociology. So that would allow me to relate to them. And they would walk away from my conversations like, wow, like, yo, thank you, Officer Jay, or thank you, Mr. Jay. Like, wow, I never looked at it like that. Or, you know, thank you. And being able to relate to people, especially when you're an officer, it's going to make them a better person because they're going to see that,

all right, listen, you're not, you're not, you know, immediately judging them in a negative light. And when you can understand a person and they don't feel misunderstood, they're like, wow, like they get it. And that will encourage them to not repeat the same mistakes. No, it seems like the correctional office or the correctional system kind of discourages officers to take that approach, you know, not sharing too much information about their lives or even talking to, you know, inmates in that regard. You kind of see it split of how officers treat inmates. How do you feel about that? Yeah, for a long time, I never, I didn't share, I wouldn't even share my birthday. Like, let alone the year.

I wouldn't share the date. So I would always tell them my birthday was the day I got hired. So I would tell them, when they asked me on my birthday, I would say, you know, it's June 17th. Because it was easy to remember because that's the day I got hired. So, oh, yo, Mr. Jay, what's your birthday, June 17? And, you know, in my mind, I'm like, all right, that's the day I got hired here. That's my birthday for you, for, you know, I didn't even think of it as like lying.

I'm like, this is my birthday for here. And you don't want to give them too much information because, you know, people, people just in, like, not just inmates, people in general can be very wicked and evil. And you don't want to give them information to, you know, to where they can find you or someone else or, you know, because even though as a law enforcement officer, I have a, you know, a license to carry, people in my family don't. So, you know, so even though I could protect myself, other people might not be able to protect themselves. But as I went along in my career, I realized they're humans. You can talk to them. You know, I would be able to divulge more information to them. I'm like, listen, listen, I'm from a neighborhood where things happened.

I'm like, I grew up around people that joined gangs. You know, trust me, I understand. Don't think I just had, you know, my life was a walk in the park. I understand where you're coming from. I can definitely relate to a lot of experiences, but I went down a different path. And, you know, like I said, I come from a two-parent household and my parents are still together. If it were a different case, you know, I would probably be a different case. You know? And so, you know, by the grace of God, I was able to not make, you know, a bad decision.

Because all it takes is one bad decision for someone to be incarcerated. And I met a lot of nice young men who I could tell were good at heart, were kind, and they got caught up in their environment and made a bad decision. So now they've murdered someone in their 19, 20, 21, and now they're going to go away for 20 years, 30 years because they made one bad decision. And they were, I would have conversations with them. I'm like, yo, this is a good kid, you know.

But we come from an environment where, all right, so you have no snitching. So if someone has a problem with you, who you know to be violent. You know to be violent. This person has shot people before. And they're not locked up. And now they have a problem with you. They could be jealous that a girl they like likes you.

You're good at basketball, football, whatever. What do you do? The resort to violence? Yeah, because you can't snitch and say, hey, yo, can't go to authorities. This person wants to kill me. This person wants to harm me. You're retaliating with violence.

So you retaliate with violence. It's a trap. It's a trap. You know, they have the stop snitching shirts. Everyone in the neighborhood was wearing them, no snitching. So you feel like you're left with one option. It's like, all right, well, I got to defend myself. And I can't wait for this person to come shooting at me.

So, you know, I'll go get them. And then you get caught. all because, you know, you don't want to die. Does that make that person a bad person? Not at all. I mean, they're trying to protect themselves. Exactly. And they fell into the trap of their environment.

All right, listen, no snitching. You know, it's like, yo, you didn't even ask to be a part of the no snitching. And to me, that's what I think is, for one, I think that's important that young people need to understand. For one, if you're a civilian, there's no such thing as snitching. If you are not a part of a criminal lifestyle, you cannot snitch. If you are not a part of any gangs, you're not breaking any laws. And I'm not talking about running a stop sign. If you are not a criminal, like in a gang or, you know, selling drugs and things of that nature,

you cannot snitch. You cannot snitching is for people who break the law consistently. the gangs and things like that. And then when they get caught, they tell to get themselves out of a situation. That snitching. And it's, I mean, it's overwhelming the amount of people that tell. So it's all a lie. You know, it's a scam that kids fall into.

And we need to help them get out of that. So now, what's your take on two individuals say they both agree to rob a bank? They both know what the stakes are, but one tells on the other one that get caught to take a plea deal. That snitching. And you both agreed to rob a bank. Yeah. And then one gets caught and tells another one. All right, you snitched.

You should just, at that point, you should just be a man and just take your time, you know? Yeah, I think that's where kind of I don't, you know, you know. necessarily agree with. I think in the snitching aspect, like they should take the time, you know, rather than cut a deal like what you're saying. But the other part, if you know, you know, someone committed a murder or something like that and, you know, you're cutting a deal for yourself unrelated case, that's fair game. It's kind of like part of the game, you know, in a way. Yeah, it's definitely part of the game. And people do it all the time. Like, so as an officer, I would want, I would want that person to snitch to get the other bank.

robber off the street to get the other bank robber on the street. Yes, please tell me who did that. But as a man, as the person you did the bank robbery and you agreed to do it, now you're going to tell on that person. It's just like, seriously, like you shouldn't have agreed to do it in the first place. And that's what all the young people, young adults

watching this show need to realize is that people will tell. the number one rule in life is self-preservation. So if someone knows that they can get out of a situation or make a situation better for themselves to roll on you, they will do it. I mean, we see it countless times on the show so many people 20 years in prison because they refuse to take a deal.

And it's like at what cost, you know, you just lost 20 years of your life when you could have got, say, five. Well, yeah, that's very rare. That's very rare. We've had a bunch of those individuals. Yeah, but out of how many people? It's low statistics, of course, you know.

Yeah, because, you know, I've seen plenty of situations where people were telling and people didn't know people were telling, you know, and, and it would, I would, it would blow my mind away. But, you know, sometimes I would be, I would be shaking down someone's cell and they would have their, you know, they would have paperwork out because they're just in the cell. And they're writing a note as to how they snitched, how they're going to snitch. And I'm like, this person? Wow. Like, you know, this person is a gang member.

You know, they're big and bad in the dorm. And they're writing a letter about how they're going to snitch. Now, the other inmates don't know this because they're not in the cell. But I know it. And I'm like, I'm like, this is all a lie. It's a scam. You know, kids keep falling for it. It's unfortunate, you know?

It's very unfortunate. How did you end up in corrections after college, after you got your degrees? So after I got my degrees, you know, corrections was like just a, you know, a stepping stone on my way to being a police officer. So I started with doing public safety first after I graduated college. And I took the test to go into corrections. And because I knew it would be, you know, a good, like, segue into being a police officer. So I'm like, you know, it's the levels of progression because now I'm a sworn officer.

And I'm like, I have no problem being locked. with the criminals and, uh, and, uh, but it's not for, it's not for everyone. Being a correction officer is definitely not for everyone. You, you work in long hours, you know, on average I was doing like 70 hours a week. How old are you when you first got on? When I first got on to corrections, I was 28. And what facility is this? Nassau County, uh, correctional facility. Now, were you considered young or was that about the normal age or? That was like the normal age.

Yeah, that was like the normal age. Yeah, I was, I was, I feel like that was a good age because it's not, I don't think it's a job for some, the young. Like, I think, I think, like, getting that job at like 20, which I've heard some places do that, it's too young. Even 21, maybe. because you have to be really, really mature. Your brain has to be really developed because you're going to be dealing with experienced con artists

who are great at trying to manipulate people. They're going to be very observant. They're going to know your routine better than you know your routine. You know, it was times where I'd be walking the dorm and they'd be like, yo, Mr. Jay, yo, yo, why didn't you, why don't you eat yet? You know I'm going to eat around this time.

I'm like, what? Like, they're very observant as to your behavior and everything about you. So it's important that you are, you know, wise so you don't fall for their traps. Tell us about Nassar County. How many individuals are housed there? What kind of charges? What's it like? So it's a maximum security facility.

It was like 1,100 inmates there when I worked there. It got housed up to 2000. And all types of charges, from murderers to, you know, grapice, people, I mean, you name it, gangbangers, I mean, all type drug dealers. Everyone is there. Everyone. So when I was younger, I didn't know the jail was that bad. You know, I grew up about 20 minutes from the jail.

And I didn't know it was what it is. So when I started working there, like within my first week, like three people got slashed. And I was like, what is going on here? I was like, like, like, this happens here. Like, you know, I knew like, I'm like, I'm sure a fight's happened, but like, especially to this capacity, I was like, wow. So it was definitely an eye open experience when I first got there. But I must say this. I like the way my facility was ran.

We only allowed one person in a cell at a time. So if someone was talking to you, they had to have a foot out of the cell. So if they wanted to talk to you at your cell, they wanted to talk to you at your cell. They had to have a foot or a body part out of that cell because only one person into a cell. And this prevents, you know, fights in a cell, you know, any type of assaults in a cell. And that is very important when having safety and control of a facility. So now you're saying there's only one bunk in the cell too. Only one bunk in the cell.

Now describe how that makes it safer and the benefits of only using one cell. All right, so that makes it safer because if someone's in a cell, they don't have to worry about a cellmate attacking them because, you know, the cellmate might fear for their safety. Now, you don't have to fear for your safety. And you don't have to worry about this person attacking you, like, to physically harm you with a weapon or you don't have to worry about them at saying you. because that, you know, that has happened a lot. I heard a lot of those stories and, you know, you had the, the PREA Act. Have you heard of that? Prison rape, Elimination Act, yeah.

Yeah, so that should never occur. No one, someone could be in for a small charge, you know, some small petty charge, you know, a nonviolent grand larceny, which is a felony. And they have someone a murderer in the cell with them. And this murderer beats them up, kills them. I mean, all types of things have happened in a cell. And why someone should have to worry about defending their life now, they're in prison to serve their time and go back into society. You know, you're locked up because society has deemed that you're unfit to be in society.

But you shouldn't now have to deal with, another human being who could be a straight up monster. And you shouldn't have to deal with that. And it would make the job easier for officers. As a correction officer, if I had to walk around and make sure that someone wasn't killed by another person in the cell, that makes my job way harder. When I had to walk around,

I only had to make sure that, you know, the person didn't overdose or hang themselves or do something to harm themselves and make sure that they were okay. But when you have two or more people in a cell, you have to worry about them harming each other. And that creates a whole different element that needs to be taken away. Now, some of the positives, though, of having a two-man cell are, you know, the buddy system if someone were to commit suicide or even just for psychological reasons having someone, how do you counter that?

Do you think the good outweighs the bad? Yeah, we don't need a body system because I'm doing 30-minute patrols. So if what buddy system, like they have someone to talk to? Because that can go away easily. Just as quickly as someone, as people are friends, they could become in. enemies. So they could be buddies at 10 o'clock in the morning and at 1015 they can want to kill each other. And then now I have a whole different, you know, element I have to deal with. It's a whole different component of the job I have to deal with. Now I'm doing a patrol

and they're like, Officer Jay, I need to switch shells. Now I have to do a cell switch switch and all list different things. And no, one person in two a cell. They're going to have time out in the day room and they can meet their buddies in the day room. And if they want to talk to each other, when the gates open, one person can have one foot out the gate talking to you.

You know, they can talk each other, you know, through the walls. You know, they could talk to each other through the vents. You do not need another person in that cell with you. that can cause you harm, you can cause them harm. People have told, you know, countless stories of being attacked by cellmate. And no one should have to worry about that. It's just, it's inhumane.

And then you're smelling another person's, you know, when they use the bathroom. It's just, it's unnecessary. Now, do you think it poses a bigger question of, you know, the prison system is not accurately or effectively classifying individuals? I always wondered when I was in prison, why are, say, a sex offender or a violent offender with someone that's, you know, a low-level white-collar, you know, fraud guy, nonviolent, you know? Why is that? Yeah, because you were white-collar, right? But even other individuals, too, that we hear about that are recruited to, say, prison gangs.

But, yeah, I was white-collar. But I would be in cells with child rapists all the time when I was in solitary. Why is that a thing? That shouldn't be a thing. This is what I'm talking about. That should not be a thing. Why is that a thing? One person to a cell.

If you have one person to a cell, they're going to have to create more jails, more prisons to house people. That's going to create more jobs. And that's not a bad thing. And that's better for the safety, the safety, the good order of the facility, for everyone, for inmates and staff.

You know, I can't, I have, like, I have friends who work at Rikers Island. And they tell me stories about body alarms at 12 a.m. 1 a.m. A body alarm for those who don't know means this is like an all-out. This is a serious situation. Anyone who could get to this floor or get here. And I'm like, how is that possible? And he's like, oh, well, people fighting in the cells at 12 a.m.

That's how you get a body alarm. Or someone can be, they could be cutting another person at 12. 12 a.m. This is insane. Like, the jail's on lockdown. Everyone is supposed to be sleeping. And then you have to worry about something like that. When you're doing your patrol, you see another inmate stabbing another inmate or something. This is ridiculous. No, people are going to say, you know, it's not really feasible to just build more prisons, especially when everyone says, let's shut down prisons. There's too many. How do you counter that? They're making money off prisons. So why can't you build them? Why can't you build them? And why can't you house people accordingly? And why can't you have one person to herself?

Why other countries do it? I mean, they're doing whole documentaries and specials on Netflix of, you know, of these different countries who, they're the nicest jails and prisons and, you know, I mean, I'm not saying we have to have that where it's that nice. It doesn't have to be what it is. I've seen things online where people are getting beat up in a cell for like five minutes, eight minutes. I'm like, where are the correction officers? What is this? That would never happen at my facility where I was a correction officer.

That would never happen. And then you look at these open dorm facilities, like a place like Fort Dix. That's a low security prison where they just put all these different offenders in. It's like the hood, you know, everyone's just. with each other and committing crime and like how does that help rehabilitation you know how does that fix anything it doesn't and you're so you're creating uh someone with a soldier mentality because all they're all they're thinking about is surviving and then one day they're going to come back out into society how does that help society you send someone to gladiator school where the

environment is war they're seeing all these different things and they're thinking about survival and then they're thrown back into society. How does that help society now? You send someone to the jungle and then you put them back near me and now they're Tarzan? Like, how does that help everybody? You know, if they should be going,

they should be rehabilitating. You know, they should be going to school. They should have different programs. They should have different social workers and therapists they could speak to. Really help them rehabilitating. You know, that's what it's about. You're sending them to gladiator school.

You know, you're letting them just run wild. I'm completely against open dorms. Because someone is sleeping, and then someone could just jump on you and attack you while you're sleeping. How does that help correction officers? How does that help other inmates? Like, that should be changed.

It should be changed. So now you mentioned, slashing earlier. What's with this culture of that? We hear about that a lot in these New York jails specifically. They all like to slash each other or cut each other. Why is that? Well, it's a testosterone environment. It's all men. And you want to teach people not to play with you or not to disrespect you. So if a person is bigger than you, you know, I'm You might not want to fight them. Or even if you could fight,

the best way to teach people to leave you alone or to instill fear in other people is, you know what, I'm going to slash this person. And that way, when everyone sees what I do to this person, they won't want to bother me, disrespect me. You know, their reputation is powerful, you know. And it's the power of perception, you know. If anyone has ever been incarcerated,

if they know someone who's been incarcerated, if you're a correction officer, you should get this book. Because the power perception is why a lot of things occur because people want a reputation of fear. Now, what's your take on prison politics and prison rules that inmates create? Are the prisons in the wrong

for kind of letting this occur and letting those types of things operate? To a certain degree, I mean, they live there. The inmates are always there. When I go home, even if I do a double, I'm there 16 hours. I'm going home. The inmates are still there.

So there was times where, so we, our dorms would have, like, 52 people. And when I say dorms, we call, like, the unit with 52 cells. We call that a dorm. They have cells. So it's not like they're just out in a room. open. They have cells, but we call it a dorm anyway. They will have five phones for 52 inmates. So sometimes the Bloods will say, all right, well, this phone is ours. So now that leaves four phones. Then you have MS-13. They say, well, this phone is ours because they were the two biggest

gangs in the jail. That leaves three phones for everyone else. And you never know. And just because the bloods have that one phone and MS-13 has that, they're one phone that's just for them. That doesn't mean they can't use other phones. But if you're not blood, you can't use the blood phone. But the bloods can use the other phones. So if you want to use the phone, you want to call your attorney, your family member, your friend, you know, you're battling your case. You want to go on the phone and that could easily create a violent situation. now because, you know, I saw a lot of fights over the phone.

You know, a lot of time I would intervene because I saw it getting there. And I would intervene, I'd be like, no, like, come on, like, no, you got to let them. You got to let them use the phone. Like, nah. You know, so sometimes, but at the, you know, there's certain politics in there that they're just going to happen. You know, it's too many of them, you know, I can only work one dorm at a time. You just, it's, it's just, I don't know, I don't know a good solution for that.

What's the psychology of, you know, these individuals claiming the phones? What's the purpose of that? Well, it's, it's a power play to, you know, to be assertive and place emphasis on their dominance, like, yo, we're a powerful, you know, figure here. This is our phone. Because you have to be a powerful group to say, to claim a whole phone. So, and that's what I think it is. And it's all about power.

Jail, prison, all about power. Which group can have, you know, the most fear, the most power? Because then those groups are going to have the easiest time. Why doesn't the prisons just add more phones? I always wondered that. Why would there be 200, you know, guys in a unit, say, and there's two phones or three phones? That's a very good question.

And they make money off the phones, too. That's a very good question. I've heard of, you know, institutions where they have phones in the cells. So if you put a phone in every cell, then every person would have a phone. And if you turn it off at a certain time, turn it on at a certain time, I don't know why you can't do that.

I don't know why you can't do. That's a very good question. I know they're adding tablets now and they have like the FaceTime type features on it. Yeah, because no matter, no matter, that's a, that's a, that's a recipe for disaster. Because no matter, if you take 52 people and you give them five phones,

they could be anybody. They could be teachers. If you put them in a stressful situation and it's 52 of them and it's five phones. They could be kindergarten teachers. Someone's going to fight over the phone. And it was only two TVs.

So they didn't have tablets in my facility. So it's two TVs. And, you know, if the World Cup is on or something, like, there's a certain, you know, demographic of people. like MS-13 is a Hispanic game, they're watching the World Cup. They're going to watch it. And if you don't let them watch it,

someone's getting stabbed or someone's getting cut or something. So it's two TVs for 52 people. Someone's not going to watch what they want to watch. And everyone wants to, you know, have the, you know, easiest time. Watching a certain show might make them feel better. Watching a certain sporting event might make them feel better.

I want to watch this. You want to watch this. Okay, now we're going to fight then. It's a recipe for disaster. They should have more. I think the tablets was a good thing. And they should have more phones. Now, the individuals that were housed there,

they're awaiting trial or waiting to take a plea deal? Yeah, there were awaiting trial. Sometimes they would, I mean, they would be there not too long after getting sentenced. So someone could find out they got life and they would be there like maybe another a maximum of four weeks. You know, we try to get them out of there quickly after they get sentenced. But, you know, they're waiting trial for all types of crimes. And sometimes they would be in there a long time awaiting trial.

I knew people in there are waiting trial for like four years. And is that typically violent crimes? No, that's for violent crimes, like murder, you know, stuff like that. They're waiting for that long. How often are those individuals convicted? Are most of them? Yeah, most of them. They either are they going to take a plea or they go to trial and lose, like 98% of the time.

So do you think the courts get it right at not giving bail to these individuals, meaning more or less they're guilty? Or more than not? I would say the people I met for violent crimes, they got it right. The system got it right with them. Majority of the time, overwhelming majority of time, they got it right. From the people I met and spoke to, like I said, it was just, it was people who they got caught up in a trap, you know? And, you know, for the most part, some people were just bad people.

some people they accepted that they're criminal they're gangster they that they that's just who they are and that's just what they want to do this is who they want to be now these people were very respectful when i met them but they understand that they're criminal and that's what they want to be and that's just who they are but they would say yes sir no sir please thank you And these people were like killers. So that also, you know, that was also astonishing to me. I was like, a person is such a respectful person. You know, this person is a killer.

And do you think there's no reversing that? Well, for these particular people? Yeah, the people that are genuinely bad. I mean, I think it's something that happened so early in their childhood or something. and some type of trauma because I don't just think we're just innately bad like that. It's just that these, I mean, one gentleman in particular,

he was the head of a gang. And he was so powerful that we had him alone. We had him alone. We had him housed alone. And I didn't know this at the time. So I went in there to do a patrol in the unit he was housed in. And he was like, hey, he was like, hello, sir.

Good morning. Sir, can I, can I turn on the TV? And I was like, yeah. He was like, um, and can I get on the telephone, please, sir? I'm like, yeah, you're in here alone. He had his own phone, had his on TV. I'm like, yeah. So I did the patrol.

I left out of there. And I said, who is this guy? because now I'm curious, like, he's saying, please, sir, thank you, you know. We had him in their firmament or whatever in his own, like, special area. And they were like, yo, this guy's like the leader of like MS-13. I was like, oh, I'm like, he's saying, please, sir, thank you and all that. He ended up getting like life. Yeah, he ended up getting life.

And then he had to go and get fed charges. What's it like for you, especially when you're first on the job, to interact with individuals that have violently hurt people? or have killed people just to be in their presence? Well, I mean, I grew up around some violent people, so in my neighborhood. So I'm like, all right, well, I understand what it's like, I mean, I know those people. So being around people that I don't know who are violent, it's like, okay, all right. I just treated, I treated everyone respect until you caused otherwise. I'm going to treat you with respect.

Most of the times I didn't even want to know what people were in for because I didn't want that to alter, you know, the way I perceived them. So I would treat people with respect until they close otherwise. And being around violent people, you know, I've been doing martial arts for, now I've been doing martial arts for 18 years. You know, I started doing judo when I was 18, you know, then I got into a boxing gym at some point. And then I did some BJJ. So I know how to defend myself very well.

So, you know, unless they had a weapon, I wasn't really concerned. I'm like, I can defend myself. So it's going to take more than just one of you to really harm me. And then I only needed, I would have only needed to defend myself against a group. for like a maximum of, I say, 30 seconds before I have 30 officers backing me up. And now you lose. So I never was really concerned about it. Were you ever put into a situation like that?

Where I had to defend myself like, what, one-on-one? Any situation where you're in fear of your life? No, I was never in fear of my life, but that's just who I am. Like, I'm a firm and strong believer in God. You know, what's going to happen is going to happen. So I was never really like concerned about my life. I'm like, whatever's going to happen. It's going to happen.

But the, so when you, when you work in a jail, especially if you're a correction officer, and I'm sure you probably know this, if you are respectful, that's going to travel. All the inmates are going to know like, nah, he's respectful. He's, yo, he's a chill dude. Like, yo, chill out.

Don't, you know, there were times where dudes were talking to me a little reckless, and inmates jumped in like, yo, chill. Yo, that's, you know, that's, that's, officer J. So, and I didn't even have to say nothing. So, like, before I can't respond, they would be like, yo, chill. So when you treat people like human beings and you're respectful, you know, because I could have went in there with a chip on my shoulder, like, yo, I'm an officer. You could never say this to me.

You can only do this. don't look at me, you know, you look at me this way, I'm writing you up. What's that going to do? I treat the people with respect, and if they did something wrong, you know, I handled them accordingly. So when you see some of these articles or news releases about officers getting killed by inmates, why do you think that happens? Well, there are, so we have mental observation dorms. So mental observation dorms,

was 15-minute patrols where I was at. And these people are mental. They can just lash out and attack you. And the regular housing, we did 30-minute patrols. And mental observation, we did 15-minute patrols, and it was two officers. General population is 30-minute patrols on one officer. So the mental observation, these people have serious mental issues.

And they don't care necessarily that you're correction officer, they might lash out and attack you just because. Just because. So, you didn't, it could be unprovoked. You probably didn't do anything. Probably didn't say anything to this person. You probably never seen that inmate. But they have mental issues.

So, I mean, every case can be different. Not saying that there aren't cases where an officer probably said something, probably did something. There's a comedian. And his name, Sadiq. Yeah, he did prison to Al Sadiq. Yeah, he told a story about how a correction officer searched him. Like, pretty much did like a strip search for no reason and a place that he shouldn't have done it.

And he said he had so much hatred for him that he was going to kill him. And he said he got right to him and like was going to kill him. and was going to kill him and one of his friends came around the corner and got him and stopped him. So that would have been a situation where it would have been a provoked attack.

You know, according to him, he was like, yo, this guy for no reason strip search me, I didn't even do anything. He was walking back from like, you know, lunch or something. And this dude, just because he could do it, he said, yo, no, I'm going to search you right now.

it's like, all right, come on, what is that for, you know? Why do those officers do that? And, you know, it's like in policing, there's some bad cops just like there's some bad correctional officers. Why do you find that happens? It's a power trip. These people, they need help. They need therapy.

You know, maybe, you know, growing up, you know, they never felt like they had a voice. They felt like they weren't cool. And now you see this person who you might perceive as a person. cool. And, you know, I could tell them what to do. And I got power and authority over them. And they're going to listen to me, you know. This year, it was a video of a female correction officer. She got attacked. I don't know when it, I don't know when it happened, but I saw it this year. And she searched an inmate cell. And he was like, why did you wake me up to search my cell? Like, so she woke this and made up to search herself. And he's like, why did you wake me up?

And she was like, I can do it. He ends up attacking her. And this was a, he was a violent inmate. You know, he's in there, I think he was in there for like murder. He's serving like 25 years already. Ain't going to wake him up out of sleep. No one likes, who likes to be able to, who likes to get woke up out of sleep? You wake him up out of sleep to search yourself.

That was just bad. Everything was just wrong on her, on like, on her part, the way she handled the whole situation. And then he's like, he's telling them why. Why did you do that? I never had no issues. I've never had this. I never had that. And then he's telling her, like,

I want to speak to a supervisor. She did everything wrong. She ended up getting attacked. And obviously, he, like, was pretty bad because a grown man is attacking you. So she just, why would you do that? And you should have a good explanation. Like, I would never just wake someone up at their cell

and just, yeah, I'm searching yourself. If I'm going to do it, you're going to, I'm going to give you a legit, a good reason. Like, listen, listen, I have reason to believe you have contraband, you have this, you have that. And then I'm known of having a reputation as a respectful and chill officer. So they're like, yo, Officer Jay is saying he got to search yourself. It's a reason. He's not on no, like, nonsense. Now, do you think female inmates should, I mean, female officers?

officers should be supervising males and vice versa male officers supervising females. What's your take on that? Well, I mean, there's some female officers who can handle themselves very well. And, I mean, I worked with the females in my facility for a year, you know? And I didn't want to do it at first because, like I said, I knew I wanted to be a police officer. And when you're a male officer and you're working with female inmates, you got to worry about accusations and all this stuff. but the crew I was working where it was so good that I didn't mind working that floor

and I never had no accusations or anything for the whole year but it was you know it was it was just it's different working with the females than working with the males you know the it's I was never no slashions or stabments or anything or that

so when I work with the females They didn't even, we didn't even have any drug issues with the females. It was a total, it was a different environment working with the females. And the females are extremely annoying though. Like, I prefer to work with the males. For one, like I said, I went ahead and have to worry about no accusations. And the males, they operate differently. When something's going to happen with the men, nine times of the 10, you're not going to know.

someone who just woke up to you bleeding and you're like, what happened? Like, but females, you're going to know 10 minutes before something happens. If they start yelling and all this stuff with men, it's silence. It's silence and then violence.

The women, it's always noise and all that. I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't. I can't with this. And then everything they need, you know, they got to come to you.

Like they need, I need this feminine product. I need this. And we would give it to them at my facility. So I don't, I mean, if you're, we're all supposed to be professional. So if people are professional and they follow their training, I think women can work with the men. I think men can work with the woman. What were some of the charges that these women were there for? prostitution

assault what was it I mean they were in there for murder you know because even if they didn't necessarily kill the person they were part of like the planning and things like that

like we had a woman who lured men into the woods to get killed and things like that so they were facing murder charges Do you think there was genuinely less evil woman than there are male offenders? As far as, like, crime? In the sense where we were talking about earlier with being a truly bad person, do you think that's more geared towards the males,

or do you think it's evenly dispersed? Well, we had way more males incarcerated at my jail than women, but I would say woman evil is different. because, all right, I'll put it to you this way. Like, so you had a gentleman named Jared Adams on your show, right? Mm-hmm. He was incarcerated for 10 years for being wrongfully convicted of great, right? Mm-hmm.

So that woman who falsely accused him is extremely evil, and she should be in prison. But she's not. So how do we equate, like... There's different types of evil. Yeah. That is extremely evil. I don't know. To take away someone's freedom and send them to prison and you know they did not do anything to you,

all because you don't want to be perceived as promiscuous, you know, or a horror or slut or something like that. So you say, yeah, you know what, they sexually assaulted me or he sexually assaulted me. And you send him, he was facing 28 years. And he got, you know, he got out of. You got a reverse. You got it at 10. So you're okay with this man going away to prison for 28 years and you know he didn't do that to you. How evil is that?

Like on a scale of evil, where do we put that person? If murder is 10, where do we put that person? Yeah, it's like people lying about crimes or it's even just as about to say prosecutors, you know, looking at evidence in a different way or not, you know, bringing it forward to the defense. Yeah, and those officers in his case, their detectives withheld information. They would have some of a statement. Of the co-defendants, I think, or something like that. Yeah, it was like they said they had like, he, Jared said he had like three sentences or whatever or three paragraphs. And it was like two pages long that in reality, that's disturbing.

Those officers should, they should face jail time. That's ridiculous because you, you, you withheld information. that allows someone to go away for 10 years. How do you repay someone 10 years of their life? That's disturbing. That's evil. I mean, look at these guys. I watched that was the Central Park Five documentary.

That was heartbreaking. I talk about Central Park Five in the book. Yeah. That was, I think, the first documentary I really saw about someone wrongfully convicted to that level. And not even just the freedom aspect. but what prison could do to a man in that, especially if you don't deserve to be there

because one of them got raped in there. Yeah. That's, and see, and like, how does that happen? No amount of money could take that back. And that's what I'm saying. How does that happen? Like, you could not do that at my facility. You couldn't do that at my facility.

We, everywhere you, all points of travel are covered. By a camera or by a, officer. By an officer. By an officer. The only time we didn't see you is when you were in the staircase. And so if you were going up or down the stairs, we would call, I'll say, I'm sending one down, or I'm sending two down. So you know to be expecting one or two inmates and, you know, 20 seconds or whatever. And if you don't see them, you know to check the staircase. What about showers? All right, so showers. In the 52 cell dorms I was telling you about, we had eight showers.

So the 52 cell dorms, it was two floors. So we had 26 cells in the bottom, 26 cells on the top, four showers on the top, four showers on the bottom. And it was like a steel door blocking, like the main parts of the body. Like we could see that, we could see your neck. and we could see your feet and stuff. But, you know, your private parts were covered by the door. So you would go in, you shower, and we could still see you.

So if someone tried to attack you in the shower, we could see that and we could stop it. So I encourage that, because I've heard stories too about people getting attacked in the shower, getting essayed in the shower. That is ridiculous. That should never happen. So why do you think there isn't one, say, streamlined plan for all prisons or just one general line of operation? Because every facility is so different than, you know, you hear some that are so laxed or there's so many loopholes or open areas where things can go wrong, where it sounds like your facilities ran a lot smoother and tighter.

Well, the people in power don't care. The people in control don't care because the people with power and control their kids are. not going to go to these facilities. No matter what their kid does, they're not going to go to these facilities. So they don't care about change and about improvement. And their kid is also not going to be working 70 to 80 hours in these facilities. So they don't care about change. But we have to care about change. And we have to advocate for ourselves and say, this is ridiculous. You know, I'm happy I worked at the facility I worked at to where things like that didn't happen. But in the jails or prisons where this is happening, their unions need to advocate for them.

Because you shouldn't have to worry about coming to work. Because if a prisoner could be attacked for five minutes or seven minutes without someone doing something, then you can be attacked for five minutes without someone doing something. And that's what officers should be thinking about. And it should be about officer safety as well. Now, speaking of officer safety and something you said earlier, you know, getting mandated overtime, working a 16-hour shift, how safe is that for an officer? I mean, I can't imagine you're as alert as you are on hour one versus hour 16.

Yeah, it's really not safe. I mean, so a lot of the time I would just sign up for overtime because they had a board. We could sign up. You can voluntarily say, all right, I'll stay here another eight hours. hours. But if sometimes you, a lot of times you get ordered. And it's really, it's not safe. You know, you're in an environment where you need to be at the utmost of being vigilant and aware and your alertness should be as high as possible. And they're saying, but we're so short-staffed, they're saying, listen, no, you have to stay because we have to cover this floor. You know,

and if we don't have this minimum man and we're not going to allow, be able to allow them to come out and things of that nature. I'm like, well, we need to hire more people then. Why can't they hire more people? You know, we see this across the board. Even with the police departments, a lot are struggling, too. That's a good question. I mean, I look forward to sitting down with politicians and different people and getting

answers to those questions because we should, safety should come before money. They have the money. Why don't you want to use it? Why don't you want to spend it? it's just they just don't really care that much. They just rather you just, you know, work 70, 80 hours a week to get it done. And, you know, and a lot of people don't complain because you're making overtime. You're making a lot of money.

So a lot of officers are like, I'm making money. I don't care if they don't hire. The more people they hire, the less overtime for me. Do you think you were paid fairly for that position? No, we should have got paid more. I mean, top pay at the time I was there, it was like $100K. I mean, with overtime, people were making $260 plus. For a regular officer?

Regular officer was making $260, $280, $300. I mean, I've met some Rikers officers that do very well. Yeah. But it's the overtime. Yeah, it's the overtime. So you can make a lot of money. with overtime. So people are like, all right, I'll make the overtime. And, you know, and they don't care, you know. I mean, I became one of those people. You get addicted to the overtime.

I was like that at Whole Foods. You get addicted to the overtime. But it's not safety is above everything, you know. And even if they hire more officers, those, that group of officers that want to worked overtime will still be able to, you know? And if there's no overtime, there's no overtime, but safety comes first, you know, and people being able to go home. It was times where I would sign up four days out of the week to sign up voluntarily work overtime. On my fifth day, I'm like, you know, I want to go home. The fifth day comes, I get ordered. Now, James, you got to stay. Now, what happens if you say no? Are you fired instantly? Not fired. I mean, especially if you're probation, you could just, but you could get written up.

You could get written up and go on your folder. You know, you could lose days because, you know, you're disobeying an order to stay. And, you know, and you took a note, you know, that you would, you know, fulfill your duties as a correction officer. So now you're going against that. Were there any notable figures that passed through your facility at all? Notable. I mean, I had a lot of. So, Nikki Minaj's brother was in my facility.

I had this gentleman, well, I'll call him a gentleman. He was a gangster. His name was the Fetano King. That was his nickname. And he was very notable. He was a leader of the Bloods gang. And he had, I mean, he was charged with selling drugs while he was locked up. So he came down to my facility to, um, to face new charges.

And, um, and he was, he was a respectable person. So he's well known for, you know, his, his crimes. But as an inmate, he was respectable. Like, and I ran into a lot of inmates that were like that. That, um, the most, the most dangerous inmates are respectful. to officers, in my experience. Why is that? Because they don't have to put on the show.

They're respected, so they don't have to put on a show to get respect. They're already respected. The fake thug, they got to put on a show and act like, oh, no, you ain't going to tell me what to do and this and that. They're putting on the show to make a scene, to be seen.

and be heard. But the people who are really feared and known, they don't got to do that. They already got their respect. So they talk to you like a gentleman. Oh, hey, what's going on, Mr. Jay, Officer Jay? Oh, yeah, please. Oh, thank you.

They don't have nothing to prove. So anytime I found someone that was trying to put on a show, I'm like, yeah, you're scared. You're not tough. You know, you're really scared and you're crying out for help or something. You want to get moved to a new unit or, you know, you want to get put in

our behavior management unit. It's like solitary, like 23-hour lockdown. I'm like, that's what you want. Because you're talking to a correction officer like this, you want protection or something. That's what I always saw it as. But, yeah, other than that, I mean, notable, Yeah, we had some gang leaders and people like that.

But no, I didn't, there was no serial killers. That was all for Suffolk. Yeah, Suffolk County. Yeah, later they had the go-go killer. But other than that, we didn't have anyone I could think of right now. That's real notable. Now, a guy like Nikki, or, yeah, Nikki Minaj's brother, is he housed separately or how does that work?

Yeah, he was housed separately at first. And, like, out of memory, they always, they always do that with people who are, like, a high-profile case or a high-profile person. At first it's always like, all right, you know, we're going to watch this person for, you know, the first 72 hours are the most crucial. Because that's when people are most likely to harm themselves. And the first 72 hours of lockdown, you know, all these different thoughts are going through people's heads. They're coming to reality with the situation. And they're like, oh, my gosh, what's going on? So, yeah, that's where he was housed at first.

And then he ended up, you know, going upstate. I don't recall whether he took a plea or he got convicted. But, yeah, he ended up leaving the facility. and going. How many of these inmates do or would you, you know, share a meal with or a dinner with or a drink with if they were free, you know? Like, are they just, you know, I think so many people ever, you know, wonder that. Because there's like this divide, you know, if you're in prison, you know, you're not really human or you're the bad person. Obviously, there's some crimes or some offenders that, you know, aren't in that category because they're so evil.

but I would say quite a few I would. And like, you know, you obviously have the dynamic of me being an officer. And but so they're not going to, they're not going to, they might not be saying what they really want to say to me. But a lot of them, I said, you know, we, we traded jokes. You know, we, I laughed with some of these people. Some of these people are very funny. They're very talented. They can draw like you wouldn't believe.

they can do, they have all types of different talents and gifts and they're human beings. You know, I had great conversations with some people. You know, I like playing chess. A lot of them, they play chess. One time I was talking to this guy, we were having a great conversation about chess. And he was telling me how he likes to, you know, do certain openings and things like that. And I'm like, hey, you know what? Say, what are you in here for?

Because I didn't know what he was in there for. And he said double homicide. My head started spinning. And I was like, so allegedly you killed two people? He's like, yes. I was like, I was just like, well, like he was the calmest person, so well-manored. I mean, like, I would sit down and, you know, I don't drink alcohol, but I would sit down and have a drink or bite a bite of food to eat with him at any time. And like, we had good conversations and I'm like, allegedly you kill two people.

So, I mean, you know, it didn't change the way I perceived him because, like, I always had, I still always had good conversations with him. And I don't, I don't know whatever happened with his case or whatever because he was still there when I left. So I would have to, you know, you know, I don't even remember his name. I'll have to look it up to see, like, if he got found guilty or, but it's just crazy. They're human beings. And I know a lot of people think, but everyone is only one accusation away from being in jail.

Or there's a lot of people that have done something that haven't been caught for. That as well. So, you know, like I always tell people, like I just said, I don't drink. But drinking and driving is a crime. So if you drink and you've had a little bit too much to drink, whether you know it or not, if you're above the legal limit, all right, you can be arrested. We have people in there for, you know, drinking and driving. So you can't tell, you can't say, oh, well, you know, all the way you're a criminal or this and that.

All right. How many people have, you know, had drinks and then drove? A lot, pretty much everyone, probably. Yeah. And they don't know if they were above the legal limit or not. You could feel fine and be above the legal limit. And most cops have, too. I've talked to a ton of cops.

Exactly. I don't even drinks. So, but for those people who do, you know, be, you got to be mindful of before you cast judgment on people. Like, you could have been, you could be in their situation. You get arrested and you can go to jail. And if you do it more than once, now, now we're talking, it's more severe now. So, they're human beings. They're, you know, a lot of them, like I said, a lot of them extremely talented.

I ran into a lot of funny human beings. It was a murderous in there that used to tell jokes and they were always they were hysterical. These people were really funny and cool people. And I'm like, but their environment made them, you know, who they were in the aspect of violence. You know, because everybody, you know, nobody wants to be, nobody wants to be a victim. You know, nobody wants to be a sheep. So when you come from a hard environment, you're like either you're going to be a wolf or a sheep.

You know, so I was blessed to, you know, not have to deal with a lot of things, you know. You know, so it's just, you know, and like I said, I come from a two-parent household. Did you ever encounter, you know, an inmate, you see him say the drawing, back to the drawing, And, you know, so artistic, so much talent. And you just wonder why that couldn't have been applied, you know, before they got into trouble

or before they made a decision that ended them there? Well, they don't know. So a lot of people, a lot of people can't see past the block or the town they live in. They can't, like, I've heard rappers, like Memphis Bleak. And, you know, he said, like, he, he, he, he, he, he. He had never been outside of like Brooklyn, really. You know, he was talking about going to Central Park for the first time or whatever. So you grow up in these neighborhoods and these kids can't see past their block.

Their mind is so, it's so narrow. That's a problem. That's why when I have conversations with kids, I'm like, listen, I've been around the world. I'm a police officer, but I've been to Dubai. I've been to Thailand. I've been to Malaysia. I've been to Brazil. I've been around the world.

You can see the world with a legit job. I make good money. You know, I have a career. You know? And as a correction officer, you don't even need college. You can be a correctional officer making $250,000. So I tell them, graduate high school and stay out of trouble. Graduate high school and stay out of trouble.

You know, I had to make a lot of sacrifices. A lot of people I grew up with, I stopped speaking to, you know, because I didn't want to get in any trouble. And these are people who are good people. But they were going down a certain path that I couldn't be a part of. And a lot of people don't have that will to know that, listen, this is, I have to think about myself long term. You know, and these are people that, you know, I grew up and I cared, I grew up and I cared about. and I had to say, listen, I can't be near you, you know, and I had to distance myself. And then I was busy because I was in college.

I was working full time. So I didn't really have the time to be a part of a lot of nonsense because I was so busy. And that saved me too. So kids need to know that it's okay to go your own direction. Just because you grew up with people, you don't have to stay attached to people. People grow apart. You can still care about somebody and keep your distance and love people from a distance because you have your eyes on a bigger prize. But kids have to be told this.

How are they going to know if they're not told this? You have to tell them that, listen, things can be different. You know, kids don't know their history. A lot of in the black community, there's this thing called learn helplessness. you know, a professor at a university, a university, she uses this study. When you are taught that you are inferior, and this is black people subconsciously, they go through this.

This has been proven with the doll test. Are you familiar with the doll test? Mm-mm. Where they have a doll test. case study they used from ages three to seven and they put a white doll and they put a black doll and they ask white kids and they ask black kids. They asked the black kids which one is the bad doll. Black children were pointing to the black doll saying it's the bad doll from three to seven years old. Why would they do that? Because they were taught somehow along the lines.

Yeah. So this is something that has to be studied. This is. This is something that has to be studied. This This is something, I mean, it's been studied and it's something that has to be looked into further. Like, why are you saying that that's the bad doll at from three to seven years old? The doll that looks like you, the black doll is the bad doll. And we're in a community where, I mean, throughout history, every time black people have tried to be positive and try to go above and beyond and be and have these affluent neighborhoods, We were always shot down. I mean, we see this with Tulsa, you saw with Rosewood, you saw with the move bomb in Philadelphia.

This is a police department in Philadelphia in 1985, 1, 1985 bombed a house. It was, the home was occupied by a liberation movement. So they bombed the house. The police department bombed the house, and then they let the house stay on fire for like, 90 minutes. They destroyed like 60 homes. Over 200 people became homeless.

And then what? And the only reason they approved this is because there's a poor black community. That's the only reason why they were approved to bomb the home. And then they let it stay on fire for 90 minutes, destroying the neighborhood. So, you know, so even when people don't have that information, There's still some, you know, there's still some, there's still something there as to why subconsciously black kids are feeling inferior. And what is that?

Who can give the answer to that? I mean, I think it all goes back to parents or parenting in general. You know, even a parent could easily remove their kid from a certain environment. Or friends are hanging around catching certain behavior. behaviors early on. Do you think that plays a big part? I mean, I definitely think your upbringing plays a big part. Parents need to hold their children accountable.

Parents need to do their research. Parents need to be active in their children's life, like not just letting the tablet raise your children or letting you to raise your children. You need to be active in your children's life. and you need to focus on their behavior, focus on educating them, focus on letting them know that there's a life outside of their neighborhood, letting them know to be leaders and not followers. That's a big problem in this world.

A lot of people, that's the power perception. That's the whole point of this book. A lot of people let their perception, you know, warp their reality, and they let that control them. we need to make a change in that aspect. Parents need to, they need to edify themselves so that they can edify their children. What do you say to the parents that, you know,

unfortunately do become single parents, whether it's through a death or, you know, just picking the wrong partner and then they're forced into, you know, having to work, say they're the correctional officer working a 16-hour day, then raising the kid. How do they even navigate that? Well, that's difficult because if you're a single parent, now, like you said, if you're a single parent and then you're always working, the streets is going to raise your children.

I've seen that countless times on the show. And so, and what was the outcome of those children? All bad. But, you know, it's so hard for me, it's like the person's tried, the mom in a lot of these cases are trying so hard to do the right thing only for the world to, you know, do have the opposite outcome. But why did that mom leave that person they were with? A lot of the times that guy's in the streets, it goes back to, I guess, the root cause of picking the wrong partner to begin with. Don't pick the wrong partner. And that goes to parenting as well.

You should be raising your young children, especially your young daughters, to pick wisely. Pick a man that has a career that's going somewhere in life, that has goals. Don't pick someone who's in the streets. where's that going to get you? And then they're going to say, well, I was young. All right, so you were young, so you didn't know right from wrong. You didn't know that someone, you know, breaking the law was the wrong option.

Like, it's a terrible excuse. It's a terrible excuse. And then it follows generation after generation because now you picked the wrong man. Now, five years later, when you say you're older and wiser, you say, all right, I'm not going to be with you now. and now you're a single parent raising a child and the streets is going to raise your child. The child is not going to have no firm system of support that can teach them right from wrong,

teach them certain fundamentals, and then they're going to go down a wrong path because they're going to be with their friends majority of the time. And if their friends are doing wrong and this child isn't strong enough to make their own decisions, you're going to be in a, you know, a world of trouble. How long did you end up staying in corrections for and why do you leave?

I was in corrections for four and a half years. And I left because I became a police officer. You know, that was always my goal to be a police officer. I had a great time being in corrections in the aspect of I was able to sit down for, you know, for hours with these inmates and have these conversations. And a lot of them would say to me, like, yo, I wish I had these conversations years ago. You know, because they, something would click. And they would be like, yo, I wish I had these conversations years ago, you know.

But they didn't, they were raising Singapore households that this person is working all the time. And they're out with their friends. So they're just doing whatever. Next thing you know, they get caught up in gang life. because they want to be a part of something. So they could join the gang they'd be a part of something and they think,

oh, these guys are my brothers or my friends or this is my family. And then they end up incarcerated. And then what? And most of the time is for something serious.

You know, an assault, selling drugs, or worst case murder. And then what? It's too late to, you know, a lot of things,

sometimes it's too late for them to, by time they realize the trap, you've already been caught. I'm curious your thoughts on this. I'm seeing this movement with like a lot of reform type people or activist type people in the prison space, you know, saying it's derogatory to call someone an inmate and refer to them as an incarcerated person or formally incarcerated. You know, is that really doing anything to change the overall? system or are we beating around the bush to identify the real problems? I think we're beating around the bush to identify the real problem. It's a distraction tactic.

Like, we used to, yeah, when I was, I went through that when I was in the jail, we started calling them, they started calling them incarcerated individuals. And, you know, and me, being who I am, I know people who have been locked up. I know, I know people from the streets. And I'm like, call them an inmate is, it's not, what's, what's, that means they are incarcerated here. They're our inmate. Like, incarcerated individual, I really didn't see really like the difference in that aspect.

I'm like, okay, no, we have bigger issues to focus on. I'm like, I never heard anyone. I've never called someone an inmate. And they say, please don't call me that. I'm an incarcerated individual. I never had that happen. I'm seeing that a lot, you know, lately, especially on social media. That's why I stay out of the reform space.

I'm more re-entry. You know, I'm all about how someone. turns their life around once they leave prison so they don't go back and that inspires people to not go to prison. I'm not going to be that person that's, you know, banging on Congress's door saying we need to fix X, Y, and Z in the actual prison because that's a long shot of that happening. But for me, call me an inmate, ex-inmate, former inmate all you want. You know, I own the past. I own the past mistakes and that doesn't define who I am now. It doesn't matter if you call me formerly incarcerated or anything like that.

I think it's bigger than that. Yeah, that's the way I see it as well. I see if someone owns their mistakes and they know what they've done or what they've been accused of, you know, I mean, if someone is innocent or not, I could see how calling them an inmate might offend them, you know, like, like, like. Like I was talking about, like I was saying, Jared Adams before, he's innocent. And he's calling him an inmate. And he's like, but even I think he understands that like, in that situation, all right,

even though I'm innocent, I'm an inmate. I'm an innocent inmate, but I'm in this system and I'm an inmate. So the overall solution is parenting. parenting. Parenting is a huge major component to stop in criminality. Get your children young. Establish a foundation. Teach them right and wrong. And teach them to be leaders.

Don't teach them to be followers. Don't allow them to be followers. You know, it's important that your children, you know, lead early. You know, when I was around my friends growing up and all that, I have friends who would drink, who would smoke. I never drank or smoked. I always had my own mind.

I was like, I don't want to do that. I don't think that's healthy. I don't see what that's going to do for me. And being strong will and being in my own, having my own mind, allowed me to stay away from a lot of nonsense. allows them to stay with him a lot of nonsense. And teaching your kids to be leaders, it would encourage them to not join gangs

and not want to follow people going down the wrong path. And you have to teach them consequences of actions. You know, because a lot of parents, all they do is baby their children and then the children will never learn consequences until it's too late. You have to teach them early what consequences, you know, could mean. Do you think most police officers should work corrections before becoming an officer? Yes, because when I worked in a, when I worked in a jail, the only thing we had was OC spray.

So that would definitely work with decreasing the amount of excessive force cases. Because if you only have OC and you're dealing with violent inmates, when you get into, you know, the outside world of policing, you're going to say, well, you know, I'm used to just have an OC. Now, obviously, now you're outside. They can have guns and things like that. But the only difference is, so on the outside, people can have a gun. They can have a bat. They can have, but inside the jail, they can have a knife.

And they can have a big knife. And when you're policing, if someone has a knife, that's deadly force you can use now. But if you're used to dealing with a situation like that with OC, that will change your mindset. And also, like I said, I'm a fourth-degree black belt. People who have a long period of training in defensive tactics and defensive tactics are less likely to use excessive force. This has been proven. People who are more trained in defensive tactics are less likely to use excessive force. So I encourage all officers to get training and defensive tactics and stay as physically fit as possible.

Well, Officer James, I appreciate you coming on the show today. I appreciate you having me. Everyone go get the book. It's available on Amazon, The Power Perception. And I thank you for having me. Yeah, we'll have the link in the description of this episode for you. I appreciate it. Awesome.

Appreciate you. Thank you.