Locked In with Ian Bick - Inmate Interviews Prison Guard | Ben Steidle

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

Ian Bick sits down with current and active correctional officer Ben Steidle to gain a firsthand perspective on the inner workings of the criminal justice system. From the daily intricacies of their job to their interactions with inmates, our guest provides compelling insights into the challenges and realities of working in corrections. We explore the highs and lows of their career, while also delving into broader issues within the system and discussing potential avenues for reform. Whether you're curious about life behind bars or passionate about justice reform, this episode offers a captivating glimpse into the world of a correctional officer and the quest for a more equitable system. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Ben Steidle: https://www.tiktok.com/@bennettdavis22 Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:08:24 - From Childhood to Becoming a Prison Guard 00:12:52 - Diving into the Correctional Officer Career 00:17:22 - Life as a Correctional Officer 00:21:48 - Life as a Prison Guard 00:26:17 - Daily life as a correctional officer 00:30:32 - Working in a prison facility and the challenges of staffing and mandated overtime 00:34:59 - Ensuring Safety and Providing Support 00:39:33 - Consequences and Accountability 00:44:07 - The Culture of Correctional Settings 00:48:54 - The Cycle of Incarceration and Reentry 00:53:19 - Inmate Technology in Prison 00:57:36 - Communication in Prison 01:01:44 - Use of the SHU Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At Hyundai of Glendale, lease a new, 2026 Hyundai-Tusan-S-C front-wheel drive for 269 a month, plus tax for 36 months, with owner's assurance in America's best warranty, 10-year, 100,000 miles. Stubbed by Hyundai of Glendale today or Hyundaiof-Glindale.net. 36-month lease, 4,49 to its signing. Tax title license and dock fees extra, plus government fees and taxes. 7,500 miles per year, expires 6126. Who available at this payment? PH 71529, pH 71529, pH 7159.

It's becoming more ingenuble. too. I mean, I've watched some videos where basically they're, you know, they use a cell phone, call somebody, somebody shows up with a drone like Amazon drop ship. Yeah, isn't that crazy the drone thing? It's nuts. How is the prison system like combating drones? Shoot them down. You guys shoot them? Yeah. With a, like a gun? With a shotgun, yeah. Wait, really? In this episode, we sit down with current and active correctional officer Ben Stiedel to gain a firsthand perspective on the inner workings of the criminal justice system. From the daily intricacies of his job to the interactions with inmates,

our guest provides compelling insights into the challenges and realities of working in corrections. We explore the highs and lows of his career while also delving into broader issues within the system and discussing potential avenues for reform. Whether you're curious about life behind bars or passionate about justice reform, this episode offers a captivating glimpse into the world of correctional officers and the quest for a more equitable system. Now, if you enjoy the Lockton podcast, remember to leave us a review on Apple or Spotify

and subscribe to the Ian Bick YouTube channel. You can also stay up to date on upcoming guests and what's going on in my life by following me on Instagram at Ian underscore Bick. Now sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with Ben Steedon. You had a younger guy that was from Kensington, and I thought, like, his story was cool. And then I started to pay more, less attention to, you know, like the incarceration portion of it, but like more what your message was.

And I became like pretty intrigued. You know, found it to be rather inspired. Thank you. Yeah. The message portion, I think, is what makes our show different from a lot of the prison channels. Right. And I know that you have like a big viewership too, which, you know, it's easy to like easy to talk to you and listening to you talk and how you make other people feel comfortable. It's because I'm awkward.

But, you know, and your story itself was also, like, really intriguing. And then, you know, like the overall thing is that I just really appreciate how people don't let, you know, struggles and setbacks hold them back. And, you know, beyond that, too. So you're able to overcome that one. And then you've turned your, like, mission into reaching down and helping pulling other people up. So it's not just about your ascension into paradise. You're trying to bring people with you.

And that portion of it I found to be like really cool and interesting. Thank you, man. Yeah. I mean, for so long I tried to make everything about me and my story. And I thought that was like the golden goose to bring me to the next level. And it's not. It's about what I like my creativity and building something that can help others. And because I was that guy that no one gave the time of day to about their story.

So now if I could do that for other people, it works out. I had listened to, well, obviously I did a. a bunch more research as like as the crunch time was coming down. And I guess you did like an interview with something in Alaska. And I listened to that one. So it was like a deeper dive that you had ideas of somewhere that you like wanted to go and pushing your story. And then it became less about your story and just the experience.

And then, you know, what do you do with it? Yeah. Do you ever watch like the fraud stories on Netflix or anything? Yes. So, like, there'll be guys that have their own docs on Netflix or stuff. The fraud guys that reach out to, like, say, me because they want to come and market their show. And I actually had a documentary on HBO years ago. Which I did not know about.

And, like, that popped up. And now, you know, scrambling to, like, download HBO before I get here. It's off of it. So don't worry about that. I'll give you the private link. I got the private folder. Because when they merged with the Discover, they got rid of a bunch of stuff. Okay.

But anyways, like, I realize I'm, I was like these individuals who want to, wanted to push their story out and it was all about them and stuff. And like I was watching this one particular last week and I'm like, wow, that was literally me two or three years ago. Like I was kind of like just like an asshole and very selfish about that. I think one of the, have you ever seen that movie too for the money? No, I've heard of it though. It's with Matthew McConaughey and Al Pacino.

Okay. And it's about a real guy. And he's telling his story and how he got his story to make it to Hollywood. was by being a caddy and going around with the people golfing and sales pitching them for the six hours that they're out there playing golf. And when I heard like how much grinding that, you know, you were doing to figure it out, I kind of pictured that because I feel like on a long enough timeline, you can wear somebody down about something.

I mean, it's difficult to not be interested in what you have to say. Yeah, I mean, I think eventually it'll get there. I mean, now, like, I'm learning, like, I just learned all the equipment. I do this all myself now. Like, there used to be a team and this and that. And now it's just, like, back to the basics. Because that's what I did with the club. So now it's just me.

I have my brother helped me book guests now before I was reaching out. Like, I reached out to you directly. Yeah. But there's just so much. And it's, like, hard to keep track. And, like. You have no idea. I was sitting there and I was like, holy shit.

Yeah. Then people want to get out of call because they don't think it's me. And I'm trying to, like, juggle everything. And it just like, you know. Which is funny because that was like my immediate thought. I was like, there's no fucking way that he got back to me. Because it literally, it must have been, I think I made four trips that month. And all of them were like over a four hour drive.

So that's at least eight to ten hours in the car for each one. So I listened to nonstop just your show. Thank you. And yeah, it had me going. Did you listen to Stephen Dominguez episode? He was a prison guard at Rikers that got taken down by the. DEA. Yes.

So is that story kind of like similar to yours a little bit? Oh, I wasn't corrupt. Okay. But you are a prison guard. Yeah. And you've probably encountered individuals like that. Right. So when I had reached out to you, like I said, I like it.

I love, you know, what your message is and that, you know, there's two sides to inside of prison. But at the end of the day, both you and I are in prison. I love that. We get the good perspective. It's our experience together, too. And I think that there's, you know, like a different conceptualization of what people see. So, you know, anytime that you're like trying to tell a story, everybody wants to know, like, what about the showers? It's like, you know, some is a little bit different than you would expect.

I mean, every institution is different. Every state is different. You know, like the culture and the politics and all of that is. different. The rehabilitation aspect, or lack thereof, drastically different. But most of the time that it's filmed, it's done in California. And

Los Angeles and state prisons in California are drastically different than the rest of the country. Yeah, we had Hector Bravo on. He's a, like, a pretty popular prison guard that he retired. I saw that one too. Yeah, that 's more like what you see on TV and stuff. Right. But I think

people are interested in, like, the small town like prisons and the stuff that's not like the glorified stuff. Yeah, the things that you don't see. And, you know, there are, well, Pennsylvania prides itself on leading the way in corrections and rehabilitation. I don't necessarily know if that's entirely true or not. Yeah. So do you, when you come on like a podcast or I know this is like one of your first ones,

but like do you have to get permission to talk about your job and whatnot? So there's going to be different things that like I don't elaborate too far. on. And then of course, like the anonymity for other people and like privacy protection and stuff like that. Yeah, of course not. We don't get in the juicy details like that. Not too juicy, but there's, you know, it's a different experience. Absolutely. Yeah, we had one with Steve Purcell. He was my first ever prison guard. He was in New York, in New York State. Just your typical prison guard. And that was my first one. but I wasn't like an experienced interviewer by that point.

That was like my probably six or seventh episode or something. I saw that one too. Yeah, but the crowd, like the audience really liked it. They got a lot of good reviews because he was just like a normal person, you know? Yeah. And, you know, I mean, it's a job, right? So you wake up in the morning, I put my shoes on one foot at a time like everybody else. And you go and you're going for a reason.

Now, the big difference is, is are you going for the right reason? or is it just a job or are you going for the wrong reason? So let's talk about how you got into that job. Like where did you grow up, but what was childhood like kind of leading up to, you know, becoming a prison guard? So we have a running joke in my family when all this came about like leaving the academy

and was like, we always knew you were going to end up in prison. We just didn't know you're going to be on this side. So is that an insult or a compliment? It makes me smile either way. Yeah. So Philadelphia is an underdog story to begin with, you know. So probably one of the biggest things about me is I like when people tell me, like, no, you can't do it. And it's like, okay, well, fuck you.

I'll show you. Yeah. But so I grew up outside of Philadelphia. Okay. And childhood was good. I mean, you know, upper middle class family still together, you know, so it's a family unit and stuff. but middle child syndrome and red hair. So, you know, you're always running around.

I have an older brother and your sister. Are they all redheads, too? No. No. Wait, you're the only redhead? I'm the only one, yeah. Is that really actually a thing? Like, that's possible?

Yep. Really? I figured the whole family would be, like, redheads. No. Wow. But, so, yeah, but also, you know, one of the consequences of having red hair being 230 pounds covered in tattoos is that you're really easy to pick out of a crowd.

So you don't even have to be the one doing something for them to be like, well, he was over there. So you get adjacently brought into things no matter what. That is true. Were any of your parents or family members worked in law enforcement at all? Yes. My grandfather was a police officer in Wilmington, Delaware. Did that inspire you at all? It did.

Yeah, for sure. You know, something about uniforms. He didn't talk about it much, though. You know, like it was a job as much as it was, a big part of his identity. One of the big things about him was more like giving back in community service type things. So he would always dress. I mean, he had a costume for everything. So he was in every parade.

He was part of the clown brigade. He also started one of the biggest unions in the state of Delaware. the Delaware Association of Police. Oh, wow. And what about what did your parents do? My father is an international textile company. My mother was an interior designer and editor, and then I stayed at her mom. So you went very, very different off of what they do for work.

Yeah, pulled a hard left. What did they think of that when you, I know their initial reaction about ending in prison, but aside from that? Well, my mother's father was in law enforcement, so she, you know, adored that. I went to college for it. So I got a degree and it was just something that, you know, excelled in. Obviously, there was like a whole bunch of, you know, nervousness for it as well. It's not the kind of career path that they show up on career day in high school and go like, come on down. So did you know in high school this is what you want to do?

It, I had a general idea, yeah. Yeah, you know, in high school I wanted to go into, I wanted to join the FBI. So I was very focused on going to school for criminal justice. Never happened, obviously, but. And ironically, criminal justice is not what's going to get you into the FBI. It's totally different. It's totally different. It's different computers.

Really? Yeah. Did you want to, like, do something else in law enforcement? Yeah, so I, you know, I had gone to different police departments and, like, applied and began the process for the police academy. It's just, you know, prison said yes first. And that's pretty much how that went. And how I stumbled upon it was basically dumb luck. My neighbor was a corrections officer. And he was also a Masonic brother of mine. He was like, well, you keep banging your head on this door. You can try this one. You know, there's always openings. So that's how that came about.

So why state versus federal? Well, like the fed, so you can pick like the top three places that you would like to go. But when you're hired, you can go anywhere. So you can just kind of be anywhere. There's some famous Fed joints in Pennsylvania. AJ's dad, we were talking about, AJ Galante, was in Pennsylvania, too. And I know there's like a lot of the Philly mob type people and stuff in those. prisons.

Yeah. Well, so we have right on, it's like off market street, but that's like the federal holding cell in Philadelphia. Yeah, I was there at one point. Yeah. Yeah, you know who I was with? I was with four sex offenders that got busted at Fort Dix in New Jersey for selling child pornography inside the prison, which was crazy.

And then the other person who was notable was the DA from Philly, the Philly DA. You know the bald-headed guy? Yeah, Seth. That's his day. He had a mustache. I used to be on the yard or in the, he was in solitary and I was there and I would see him like in the cage or whatever when he had just got sentenced for like five years or something. Stealing money from his mom. It's insane.

What does he do now? He's out. I'm assuming this was years ago, right? I don't know if he's out because it was a few years ago. Okay. I don't know how much time he got. But I remember seeing it was like a big ordeal. It was a big ordeal.

Philadelphia is a very corrupt city to begin with. I mean, it's etched in that. I was watching the Irishman the other day, and, you know, they pull up the old mayor of Philadelphia, who was also like the chief of police and stuff at one time. And he's, you know, in there with the other mobsters and the union and all that. And it's like, yeah, that makes sense. What do you think is the biggest misconception about a correctional officer career was? The biggest misconception?

Yeah. Like, you know, if someone might look at, like, I'll put it this way, like when I worked at Whole Foods, people would laugh that it was like Whole Foods, a grocery store. But little did they know that that was like a real career, a great paying job. Oh, yeah, that's great. Yeah. And the food there is amazing. It's expensive, but it's good. Yeah.

The biggest misconception, people get really shocked when they find out that you don't have anything. It is you surrounded and it's a radio and handcuffs and maybe you have pepper spray or OC. Why do you say maybe? Is it to depend on the prison? It depends on the place, yeah. Okay. Or even if you like carry it. Yeah.

Did you see that episode with Damon Darling, the prison guard that got fired? after six months. They gave him some pepper spray. He didn't use it or sell the alarm. It came out a few weeks ago. I think I did hear something. Yeah. Yeah, it was really funny.

He, like, froze and he was just not cut out for the gig. Which you find out relatively quickly. And so part of that, too, is that, you know, when you're there, you also have to understand, like, the other side of it, you know, like the inmate side of it. Because they don't really have a choice. Like, they don't get to quit that day, go home. and, you know, not come back because they're there, right? And you can imagine how you felt on your first day.

I mean, I can tell you that nothing will tell you what you're made of until you step out for the first time we're in the opposite color of everybody else onto a prison yard. So what was your first experience like? I'm just happy nobody can see my heart downing through my chest. It was that tough? It's intimidating, you know. It really is. And people, I guess, don't, you know, in the movies, it seems like there's a bunch of gun towers and people are hanging out and they're right there, you know, to back you up.

No, it's three versus 600. Yeah, I didn't see any gun towers in the feds at all. I know they have like the perimeter truck, but there wasn't like armed snipers and towers or anything, at least like where I was at. Yeah, so they vary. You know, they're even, like, changing the names now, too. They're not correctional facilities anymore. They're institutions and campuses. To make a town more professional?

Yeah. Interesting. I mean, one of the funnier parts is walking down a prison hallway, and you're like, there's like paintings on the wall, like drawn on paintings. You're like, this is not the institutional gray I was expecting. Do you think that when you went through training to be a correctional office? or kind of matched what you signed up for?

No. Really? Absolutely not. It wasn't in the job description. But, I mean, there's, again, there's only so much that you can be taught from a book about what's going to be a real life experience for you and if you're able to handle it. So they try and do like a shock and all thing there. So for example, I think there were like 14 of us that started at the same time.

and then go off to the academy, and that number dropped down to four by the time. Four? Wow, and you were one of the four? There was somebody left in the first week. Really? Yeah. What do you think that was?

It was it mental or physical? So I would say that it's mental, and they say a lot of stuff to scare you because you ought to be aware that this is not a safe place. Like, no one's giving you a hard hat and a reflective vest. It's, this is real deal, and it can, you know, change at the drop of a hat. And then they, you know, kind of put more stuff on you talking about riots and you're signing

death waivers and make sure you fill stuff out so your family gets things and you're like, um, so like, how often does this happen? Yeah. It just so happened that I was going to the academy at the same time. we had our first correctional officer killed in the line of duty in like 20 some years. Inside the prison? Was there like a riot or something? Nope.

No, it was just a very angry man who was already sentenced to life and just. So it was a one-off. Yeah, a one-off situation. Wow. So were you in any of the prisons where like Bill Cosby or anything was in? Yeah. You were in Bill Cosby's prison? Well, I wasn't in that one, but I've been there before.

So Pennsylvania is an interesting place. So there's a prison that's very gothic looking, kind of what you would expect from seeing movies and stuff like that. And it was called SCI, Graterford. The thing about Pennsylvania is every prison is named after kind of its geographical location. So Graterford is greater Philadelphia area. But it was, you know, there are huge walls. They're stone walls. It's gothic looking.

And it was built by the inmates from Eastern State Penitentiary. And Eastern State Penitentiaries in Center City, Philadelphia. It's no longer an active prison, but that's where Al Capone was. It would be one of the more famous people. Oh, interesting. So Graterford was being closed down at the time that I was going through. And at the same time, Governor Ed Rendell's baby project, SCF Phoenix, was being built. They were still pouring cement at that time.

How do you become so knowledgeable about this? Are you personally curious about it or do they teach you about this stuff? Well, so from outside of Philadelphia and they have this thing called terror behind the walls, which is like a haunted house inside of Eastern State Penitentiary. That's actually a really good idea. It is cool if you go to see it. And then I've also done like the tourists during the daytime just because, you know, It is interesting.

And being involved in or going through school for criminal justice, it was interesting. And I, you know, ran a lot of races and marathons in Philadelphia. So you're, like, nearby that. And it's just, it's an overwhelmingly powerful building. They still have one of the big gun towers up there that you see. And then the big gate walking in and, you know, like, wow. I can only imagine what it would be like for you to walk there that day or that bus to be pulling up. Yeah.

Now, looking the way you look, obviously, do you have more of an advantage as a prison guard? You need to have a good attitude. And you've got to have thick skin, so being blessed with red hair, that they'll keep the thick skin. But, you know, obviously when you go in, you're not just being hazed by other officers. You're being hazed by inmates, too. And they're doing it to, you know, basically test to see, like, where you are. And this is something that, you know, they do day in and day out. You have to remember that they're bored.

It's boring if you're not actively active doing something with your time. But, yeah, you know, being big or small, it doesn't really change how they're going to interact with you. It's more about how, like, you're able to interact back. You know, are you going to be like a rigid prick? Are you timid? Do you stutter step? Do you like stumble over words when you do it? Playing sports all my life and having red hair. Got a quick lip.

So if we had an inmate that was under your watch here with us today, what do you think you would say about you? Fair, consistent, and serious. The best kind of guards. But, you know, not... You have to be serious. So, well, I think often, you're, well, I think, officers need to understand, is that every time that you're dealing with somebody, you're dealing

with them on one of the worst days of their life because they don't have that much control over everything that's going on. And you also have to pay attention, which is one of the good things that they do teach you in the academy about, like, you know, watching and stuff like that. So did you just get off the phone and now your attitude and behavior has changed because maybe you just heard something shitty from home or maybe something bad just happened there? Where being free, you know, you can get bad news from a text message and you, you're not going to take that as bad. That might be like a five-minute disruption to your day.

But with the phone being limited and somebody else is on it, you can't get whatever answer you went back right away. And now this is going to bother you and you have no control over stuff. So like it will be plaguing at you. So if you're able to be, you know, cognizant of that and then how you're interacting with them, Because, you know, there are rules. All of them ought to be followed.

That's how, you know, the institution flows in the safest manner possible. Are you going to give that guy that hard of a time right then? Or are you going to try and figure out what it is that's eating at him before, like, you have a problem turned into a bigger problem? Do you think that professional mindset is evolved from, like, watching a show like this where you can see the other people that were in prison's mentality? I think that when I was watching your show and hearing the interviews, like it just struck with my moral compass. And I was like, okay, yeah. And I mean, I was incredibly excited to participate.

Yeah, we're excited to have you, man. That's awesome hearing a different person. I don't like to hear the same thing all the time. Like it gets boring. You know, like earlier today I did a three-hour interview with someone and he went to prison, but it wasn't about prison. but it wasn't about prison. It was about his time in the military.

And then we covered prison, but like every episode I like to try to make different and switch it up. Yeah. I like the one with the guy who became the police chief. Oh, the sheriff? Yeah. Yeah, he was a character. So, you know, the show just struck with me in that way.

And when I had written to you, I was like, I like it. and maybe this perspective would be good. Just because, you know, conceptually, right, anybody who has gone and been in an institution, somebody rubbed you a wrong way or did something messed up. And, you know, you're seeing them at least four, five days out of the week for eight to 16 hours. You know, as an officer, so every year you do in prison, I do eight months. I mean, that's what the mathematical equation turns out to be. So, like, we're both there together.

Our experience might be a little bit different, but, you know, I got to deal with management. You just have to deal with me. You know, I never really looked at it that way. That's definitely a good way to look at it. So, like, we both exist in that environment. And if you approach it with the mindset that, like, I am here to do a job. And it is care, custody, and control, which is to ensure your safety, as well as mine. And like, we both just have to stay here. But you have to exist with people. And you need to

have relationships with people to be able to communicate, to know better what's going on. Like, is there a problem? Is there going to be a problem? Do you have a problem? Does somebody else have a problem? And you need to be approachable enough for somebody to entrust that information to you so that their safety isn't compromised. So question, and you could totally throw me under the bus for this too, but like I'll post videos where like a former inmate is talking about like where he hid contraband or how he snuck it in. As someone that's a correctional officer and you see these videos, does that help you improve

your skills a little bit? There's already like a limited amount of places for these things to go. Because I get labeled as a snitch for that. I mean, theoretically, it's dry snitching, right? So you're not telling on anybody, but like there's an idea. But we, you know, we know that it's in there and that it gets in there and the different avenues that it gets in. It's becoming more ingenuative, too. I mean, I've watched some videos where basically they're, you know, they use a cell phone, call somebody, somebody shows up with a drone like Amazon drop ship.

Yeah, isn't that crazy the drone thing? It's nuts. How is the prison system, like, combating drones? Shoot them down. You guys shoot them? Yeah. With a gun? With a shotgun, yeah.

Wait, really? That's what it is. But, you know, the whole institution then has to be like lockdown and then somebody has to go figure out where like the drone came from. Okay. But, you know, so like I said, every institution is different. So where geographically it's located, there's not too many that are, you know, inside of a city. But something I was always curious about is why don't prison systems just put cell phone jammers? Is that like a security risk or for like that the staff?

It probably would be a security risk, I think. Because cell phones are just not allowed in the secure part of the facility. There's quite a bit of facility out there where people have phones and whatnot. But, yeah. But, I mean, they would just use Wi-Fi because there's high-speed Internet in an institution. I mean, even I know years ago it was easier to smuggle stuff in, but it's got to be a lot harder for the corrupt guards to bring stuff in. There's got to be better security, right?

You would think it's like yes and no, because just as ingenuative as the inmates are. If you're going to do something wrong, you're going to figure out a way to do it. And if you have like the proper motivation, so either threatened or getting paid, one or the other. Yeah, that's very true. What do you think about the food in Pennsylvania state prisons? What's your take on it? Because I've talked to some people, they're like, oh, I would never eat it. But like in the prisons I was in personally, the guards are always eaten a meal from the prison.

So it depends on what institution you're at. Are you in a state place? Are you in a county jail? County's probably the worst, I'm assuming. Counties, certain counties, you can bring your own food. Really? Yeah. As an inmate or just a guard?

No. Okay. Okay. I was going to say it. But, I mean, that was baffling to me because that's not. how my experience was. Okay. So you have to eat the food or go hungry.

Oh, so you weren't allowed to bring a lunch? No. Really? Wow. It's probably like the only job in America. You can't bring your own lunch, right? Yeah. Well, I'm not entirely sure who it was, but somebody even screwed that up for all of us.

I could imagine. I mean, that's the stereotypical thing in TV shows. Like Orange is a New Black, all these prison shows where they put like stuff in the food, like, say drugs in a sandwich or, sneak it in and whatnot. I don't necessarily know if it was that that got it shut down. I think it was like something dumber. Really?

Yeah. Something dumber, like taking too long of a lunch break or whatever because we only have 30 minutes. Yeah. But, yeah, somebody messed it up for everybody. It's funny because when you go to the academy, you see all these really stupid signs and you're like, well, that's just common sense. Now, if there's a sign up there, enough people did that dumb thing to have the government make a sign. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense.

In Pennsylvania, do they give, like, Christmas bags or gifts out at all during the holidays? I think there's, like, a special meal. But so we do have a culinary program in Pennsylvania. When I was going through the Academy, there's SCI Camp Hill gets buses, inmates down to the Academy. And the Academy is a decommissioned mental hospital that we get to live in. So there's your first bit of terrifying because you actually lock into a cell every night, too. Wait, they lock you in? Well, that's where you live.

That's your like bunkhouse is in there. And inmates are walking freely through out the day. So there's just like at an institution where you have block workers and stuff like that, that's what you have. So that's your first interaction truly, like within inmate population. But the culinary director was from Disney World. Wait, did the guy left Disney World to come work at this prison? Well, you have to come work for the state of Pennsylvania. Wow.

I wonder if that was a better job. I guess maybe benefits and a pension and whatnot. Yeah, it's probably less creative food. Yeah. They tell you, enjoy all the food at the academy because it's not going to be the same when you come back. That's what they say. Now, something that's like constantly in the news is they're talking about like the mandated overtime and lack of staff in these facilities. Yes.

Is there a lack of staff in these facilities like that? And do you guys get forced into overtime? Yes, absolutely. So pre-COVID, you know, it's already a job that a lot of people don't want to do. I mean, just with the culture and the generation now, too, the ideology of leaving your cell phone at home or in your car and being unplugged from anyone is just like mind-blowing to a 20-year-old. So no one really wants to do that. And then, you know, we're also like the red-headed stepchild of law enforcement, essentially. Literally.

Yeah. So it's difficult to go fill that. And then, like, people will, right? And you have a very short period of time to figure out if you're about that life or not. And, like, you really need to know if you are or not because, like, it's not a game. You know, even at like a minimal security prison or institution, your life can change in a heartbeat. But I also think that when you like enter that career too is that you need to possess at least the insight that we are all just one shitty decision away from ending right up there. Like everybody is.

You know, I think on average, everybody commits a crime or two a day. Like, no one drives exactly 25 miles an hour. No one slows down below 15 miles per hour in a school zone. People run red lights. You accidentally walk out of somewhere. Now that you, like, self-checkout at the grocery store, somebody might not pay for that pizza. Happy hour.

Yeah. I mean, that's such a real statement right there because so many people are quick to judge, people getting out of prison. And I feel like you're showing a lot of empathy with some of these individuals. It's, if you don't carry that, you're not doing what your job is. Because like I said, it's about you've already been tried and convicted by a jury of your peers. You know, whether that was fair or not fair isn't up for me to say.

But you have been sentenced and are serving a punishment. My job is not to be there to punish you. It's to ensure that you stay there. But you're safe while you're there because you also have a fair. family that you're going to be going home to, that expect me to ensure your safety to a degree. Yeah. And that's what it is. So my job isn't to make your life harder.

It's to ensure that the institution flows on a day-to-day basis in the safest manner possible. When's the time that you did something really good for an inmate, like it helped him get through something mentally, where there for him was like a support system. I feel like we hear about all the bad all the time. We don't hear about the good stuff, the good moments. I think that you need to just be open and conscientious, you know, for people. So it's like there are specific incidents. I'm sure there's like countless ones. Respect is a huge thing, right?

And when you don't have all that much to be believing in or to ensure, like, you know, have some positivity in the day, a lot of people turn to religion. So one of the times, now I'm a bodybuilder, so food is incredibly important to me. So I can't imagine being Muslim and having to fast all day. So when Ramadan comes about, it's like a production pretty much to get everybody to come down to have this only meal of the day. So they have things called like pat sheets and stuff like that. You have to do X amount of pat searches a day at a minimum. you're supposed to do more, but at the bare minimum, you need to be doing this.

So people who haven't really been on their job that much during the day, here's where they're picking those numbers up. Now, you're messing with people that are, like, on their way to be exercising, like, their religious belief and they're hungry. So not only are they going down to pray, but then there's also, like, a meal line. And let's not be confused any time that there's a mass movement, you know, not every, but no one is there for praying too hard at church. So it's there.

But you can't just be, you know, everyone here is up to something nefarious. Because if you do that, you're not going to survive the day. And you're going to be making there. Don't be that guy. You know, that's the guy that gets me in danger and others in danger. Because if you're, you know, it essentially, because it can feel like that you're being, picked on, right? If you feel like you're getting like redlined every day, you know, pulled out of line to be like hit with a patch search by the same guy, same guy. Every time he sees you throughout

the institution, there's like, it just keeps rubbing you the wrong way until one day that you're having a truly shitty day. And it's like, that was one fucking time too many. Yeah. So you can't just be like, well, everybody here's evil. Not saying everybody there's an ink. you have to be like cognizant of like, yeah, anybody can be bad, but not everybody's doing bad all of the time. So if you operate that way, then you're a bit more fair and just when you're, you know, like doing these random ones, where it, you know, would seem more targeted if you didn't behave that way. And you can't just behave that way one day. You need to be consistent throughout your career and time there. So that, you know, at the end of the day, you can always count on me being me.

And that every time that you see me, you're getting the same me from yesterday, last month, last year. And that's very important now more than ever in this world with what's going on with law enforcement, where some people have the stigma that all, you know, law enforcement officers are bad because there's a few bad apples when that's just like not the case. Yeah. So to talk about that is you're guilty of being a bad apple if you are aware of something that you don't report up. So if you have an idea, because, you know, that's really what the problem is, is that people be aware of it or there's rumors of this or that. It's like, well, no, when you're in the trenches, you do know Johnny or Jimmy. and how you can be like, oh, well, that surprised me. No, the fuck, it didn't. Like, you knew.

You just didn't say anything. And I think that that's part of the problem. Yeah. And you are just as culpable. Just because you don't commit the crime, I mean, being a witness is just as bad. Because it's almost like co-signing. Yeah, not that people have to speak up. Like, yeah, that, you know, that's acceptable.

But you were asking before I went off on this tangent about, you know, the overtime mandates and all of that and understaffing. It's, yeah, it's a huge problem, which also puts like institutional security at risk. It puts the populations safety at risk, too, not to mention it makes for a worse experience. So how does that get fixed? How does a system fix that? Recruiting, money, or, you know. if you get like a really brilliant governor who then decides like, well, I think we need to diminish the inmate population. We'll just start closing prison.

So are you for that, like closing down prisons? Not essentially. I mean, you know, like there are you do some consequences. And there's consequences for all actions. So obviously there needs to be accountability. And like let's not raise a generation of like more belligerent people. So we already have, you know, participation trophies going out to kids for just showing up. You don't have to be the best and you don't have to win.

You still get one. So if you have a society that basically enforces zero consequences, you're just going to have a whole bunch of anarchy and end up with, like, more of these, like, spoiled and titled people that run around and just do appalling things. I mean, you know, we've all watched those Karen videos. Karen caught in the wild. And it's, it's like, dude, you're 46 years old. And you believe that that's appropriate to behave? Yeah, the woman that got caught in Central Park or whatever,

flipping off on a man and it was crazy like a couple of years ago. Yeah. And the woman on the plane who went nuts to? You get all of these things. So there has to be consequence. Do I entirely know what they are? No. You know, brighter men than me are the ones who came up with laws.

And then obviously more educated people than myself are the ones that defend them. But do you come up, I mean, do you come across a lot of cases where you're like, this person should not be in prison? Yes, they did something illegal, but it doesn't, you don't think it should result in a prison sentence. Yeah. You know, there are different avenues for everything. You know, I feel like a first-time felon that, you know, that should be a separate court. It's like, it's your first time. So what is it?

Is it non-violent? Well, then we need to, like, graph that. because there are some things, like, it's just one bad decision that doesn't necessarily need to be huge or epic. You can just make one bad choice. And it can be from a lack of forethought, or I didn't think it was that bad, or just like a complete lapse in judgment because you went out.

So I was watching the one story with the gentleman from, you know, Kensington. That's a bar fight. There's a lot of people in prison because of a bar fight. it's one bad decision made under like a bad context does he need to go for nine years or you know depending on what it is I mean I know that a person was grievously injured in that but there's also like a weight to it

you know because if the idea is about reform right and redemption and then to bring you back into society Well, you don't want somebody to go away for 10 years and be mistreated for the whole 10 years and then they're coming back into society because that's the society that just sent them there. They're not going to be reformed or receptive to things. And then if you basically put them in a gladiator school, what are you expecting to come up? No, that's a good topic. Do correctional officers refer to prisons as a gladiator school? There's definitely certain ones that are, yeah.

So you believe in that? Well, for sure. You just, like anything else, you know, how cities are different, right? That you just know like that area is bad. Like don't go over there. It's like a lawless zone. And that's because like the culture allows it to continue and to continue to grow. So in like a correctional setting, right?

So people join there. They're there. And then the culture, so to fall in line, you know, just change. just to get along, and then you perpetuate that. It's like, how are we okay as, like, a society literally sending people to gladiator school? Like, isn't that, say this, it's like the Roman Empire, go to a gladiator fight, and we're sending people to prison, and people are commonly referring it to as gladiator school. Like, imagine if, like, the president or a congressman, like, are talking about, hey, you're going to gladiator school. Like it just

You know Yeah And well they would never end up there They would go to club fed Yeah It's just a thought of it It's just it's crazy Like there definitely needs to be

Major changes made in the system Have you seen the documentary The Kaleifra Browder story? No I haven't No Rikers Island The Juvenile That's gladiator school

Yeah That's that breeds stuff. And, you know, his story is interesting and unique because it's a crime. He didn't commit. He actually never ended up on trial for it. But he spent years at Rikers Island and a majority of that time in administrative segregation. Like 23 and 1.

Yeah. It's the, you know, what that will do to a person. And not to mention, they kept offering him deals too, right? that you can go home but just plead guilty to do this. And I, you know, commendable spirit that he had because he refused. He easily could have taken a deal and gone home, but he refused to stand in front of a courtroom and say, I'm guilty of something that I'm not. Yeah. And it's wild because I have seen people go home that are innocent and they've been locked down since their juvenile life.

and adamantly defended the fact that they did not commit this homicide and would never cop to a plea for it. There's never going to be parole for them and continued to fight this journey of some for up to like 30 years that they're fighting. And then they finally are able to get released. So that's the type of reform that I do like to see. Yeah. And it's like how do you can't. I mean, I know we give individuals like that. millions of dollars, but how do you, you can't get back that time.

Not in the state of Pennsylvania. Oh, they don't give them money for that? No, you got to go through an entire lawsuit process, but. Yeah. Yeah, you don't just get compensation. There's a couple states that do. That just hand to you, I thought I was looking at it solely from a lawsuit perspective. Well, then think about it.

How much is your time worth? Yeah. How much is one day for you worth? And not just how much is one day for you worth. You have to add into that. experience because, you know, anybody who goes into an institutional setting and spend some time there, violence follows. It really does not matter. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how long you've been there. There is violence involved. You bear witness to some of the most awful things.

What's something pretty awful that you've seen? Yeah, you see a bit of stuff. But, you know, I think the most awful thing to see is that somebody did 30 years that was innocent and adamantly stood for it. And because of, you know, the way that the justice is 30 years ago is how they were persecuted. When they're found innocent, does that make you as a correctional officer feel bad that you were kind of like keeping them in there in a way? Like you were taking away some of their like, I guess their rights. That would probably be with like deeper reflection, quite frankly. you, when you see something and you've actually personally met that person and you've heard them talk and how they carry themselves and all of that, that you're just happy. Like, you're happy. You got it.

I mean, not many people do. I mean, even the appeal process, you know, or parole is kind of, it's, you know, if you're able to get it, you are happy for people. It's like, like I said, you spend time there. You know, we're all serving time for that eight hours. Yeah. Do you see a lot of inmates get released and then come back? And if so, what's like a reoccurring theme? I, well, as you know, the system's like Quicksand.

Once your foot's in there, you know, you are kind of attached. So I think, like, not going back and then being able to do, you know, more with your life and time and not getting shrug back into that struggle is incredibly commendable. Do you see people come back? Yeah. It's a rotating door in, out. But if you know, you've got like a five-year pigtail, like I said, the average person commits crimes in a day. I mean, they might just be minimal.

But if you're on paper, right, and you have a record. And I'm stopping you in a car stop. What's one of the first things that they ask you? You know, like in Philadelphia, are you on paper? That's how the whole thing with Meek Mill came about, though, too. That's another wild story. How does probation turn into that, you know? And you were only put on probation for X amount of years,

and then you've been going through this for 12th. to me, as someone that was in a position of having, like, supervised release, that was, that was more scary in some aspects in prison itself. And that's why a lot of people just max out. Yeah, because you've already, like, if I, God forbid, I ever had to do something over again, I'm not taken halfway out because that was miserable. It's like it's a pettier than inside prison itself. And it feels a bit demeaning.

Very, way more demeaning. More than the institution, because that one for you makes sense. How does going to, like, baby jail when you get out of, of jail feel. And you can't even have a cell phone or... But you can when you leave. Yeah. But then it's got to disappear when you come back.

Doesn't make sense. So if you want to... Here's one of the things. I've got kids too, so I hate repeating myself. So one of the things that you'll be telling somebody is like I feel like I'm not supposed to have to tell a grown man more than once, something. Right? Like I don't need to ask you more than one time.

So you want the person that just got out that's now going to a halfway house. to me personally, I want you to excel. But I'm not treating you that way. Now I'm putting all these added restrictions on you, which are worse and more demoralizing and dehumanizing than when you were incarcerated. And like, how does that make sense? Yeah.

No, I mean, I saw the halfway house. I was excited for the halfway house. And then I saw it firsthand how bad it is, the food, because those are for-profit businesses. they're making money. So it's unlike the federal prison that's not making money. These community reentry centers are making money off of you. So they want cheap food, cheap everything, low staff.

And it's all staff hired fresh out of college that just need the credits. Or they might still be in college. Yeah. I had like three case managers when I was in the halfway house over a six-month period. Right. And how's that helpful for you? No, they don't care about me. I would say you care more about me and you just met me than those individuals did.

That's their job. But then that's also how that makes you feel, right? Yeah. And the entire ideology behind it is that like this is supposed to be setting you up for success. And how's that when you have three different case managers in six months? That's three people that I forced on you that now you feel like shit. Because here are three people that just proved to me I don't mean anything. and that I'm not worth their time.

But I still want you to go out and do something productive. Or like, you know, I'm going to throw you back in. Were you surprised? I've actually never asked anyone this question. Were you surprised by what some of the inmates watch on TV in prison? Because I was shocked that, like, people watch, like, love after lockup and, like, prison shows inside prison. Do you see that at all? And, like, what's your guys' opinions on that?

Yeah. I mean, you know, because it's... It's interesting. I mean, the human condition is interesting. That's why people watch the things that they do. But, yeah, there's also, like, limited channels in there. Yeah, but to be in prison, like, watching that, I don't know. To me, it was just strange that we're literally in prison watching this stuff.

I mean, it is. Seeing them walk around with tablets was confusing the first time. Oh, yeah. That's a thing, right? Yeah. So can you talk about that, like, what that's like? So when you watch, like, these old movies and stuff like that, they're walking around with like a cassette player, right?

And then it moved into like little, you know, radios that are like this big and headphones and stuff. Now you see guys going out to the prison yard with like a manufactured like purse type deal that's got their tablet in it with their headphones on so they can go exercise. And is that given to the inmate for free? No. So they have to pay for the tablet. What's that tablet sell for? I've never really looked at a commissariat list. Really?

But they sell makeup in male prisons. What? That was a shock. Is that new? It's, no, it's been going on for a little bit. But that was definitely like, huh? I'll tell you what, where they make the money in the feds, those little MP3 players that you get for 20 bucks at my marshals, they sell those things for $149.

And then the headphones are separate. Present is a big business. The commissary, they're making a killing. Making a killing. Like it's, I mean, a bag of Doritos is a story. seven bucks. Yeah. So if a supermarket's able to sell for $3.50, that means they're making them for cheap.

Yeah. You know, it's a crazy, crazy thing. So do we end up in a world where, like, cell phones are going to be a normal thing now that we have tablets? Like, I have a friend who has a friend in prison where he's able to call him off of this tablet and watch movies on the tablet from his own cell. Like, is that, it just feels a little bit different now. I don't know if they're going down like that kind of route. So like the tablets are to be able to like send emails and stuff like that and then download music and things of like that nature.

But, you know, the emails are controlled just like the mail. And you guys are reading these emails? They get read, yeah. Every single one of them gets read? You just can't read legal mail. Okay. So if an email says legal mail? Yeah, it usually comes from like an attorney and stuff.

So we also had like a big thing that happens. Like mail doesn't come directly to the institution anymore. Now it goes to like a central hub and then it's sent down to Florida. And it goes through and then it gets scanned. And then the scanned part gets sent. Is that because like the K2 situation and synthetic stuff? It was more for like heroin and stuff like that in Arkansas. They were putting that on the paper and stuff?

Well, they've always done something like that. But we had like an institutional wide lockdown. for a number of time. I don't think it was more than two months. I think I heard about someone was telling me about this. But yeah, it was the guy from Kentston. He was on the talk. Okay, that had to do with the mail and stuff, right?

Yeah, it just had to, and it wasn't, you know, even nearby here, but it's like a statewide issue. So even some of those, like, community corrections places, so, like the halfway houses, which we have, like, some that are ran by the state. And then, but most of them are private. but even those became on lockdown too all for that which is like hectic

and you know that that would be like another time that I feel was like a missed opportunity for training now is when people can learn empathy because like so that becomes you know really overwhelming for us as like the staff there

because of now everything that you have to do, you know, normally it was inmates that were doing a whole bunch of stuff, but now they need to be like fed on cell blocks and stuff. So you're, that's the day you showed up to make money. What about the phone call situation? I know certain states are passing laws about capping what they can charge, but that could get expensive for people. That phone call thing is that's a highway robber.

And then you think about it too for like the families and stuff. So just to be able to call home, but we also want to call it that like, you know, you know, This is for like rehab and rehabilitation. You know, people have to have just something to look forward to, right? And they need like some kind of support. It's a negative environment. It can just breathe nothing but constant negativity. And there are people that try to be uplifting in there.

But, you know, not everybody is the same. And then some people, they're, you know, they're going to be courtside forever. So, you know, they don't really like look back at home. But if you're, you know, around him, that's just like a shitty thought to feel. So, like, you need to be able to contact people. You've got to be able to talk to family. Somebody has to, you know, care about you and that you feel cared for. Otherwise, it's going to be incredibly challenging to make it.

What about the 15-minute limits on those calls? Well, that's like the click-off time, right? But that doesn't necessarily mean that, like, you are done with the phone for the remainder of the day. You can get right back on. I mean, in some. Yeah, I think you had to wait like a half hour on our phones and the feds. You can't, but if there's nobody in line, I mean, you got to remember two. I hate answering the phone.

Like, if you call me, I'm going to stare at it until it goes to voicemail and sent you a text message like, I'm busy. What's up? Yeah, why do you think some people are like that? Because, like, you know, like, now, I don't know. I think it's just like a conditioning thing. So the phone is like drastically less popular than it used to be because now you've got these talents and you're sending emails. So like your information goes quick.

And then like you said, it costs a bunch to be on the phone. And I mean, if you don't have it, then the other person needs to. And, you know, if they're already putting money on your books or, you know, something of that nature, then like how much am I going to be giving to this a month? you know. Interesting. Are there a lot of like state representatives and government officials that walk through the prisons too? There should be.

Yeah. So something I saw firsthand was when someone would come that was high up in government or whatever, they would hide us away. Like, and so they would say they're coming. They're going to see you. They're going to talk to you. And then you get whisked away. Like when I was in a shoe for a few months, they do the once a week like walk where they come, your case manager, everyone. they come early and they walk fast so they don't have to talk to you.

I always felt like that's how it was with everything. And then, you know, conceptually, like you've got to imagine. So that's why, like when you are working, do what you say and say what you mean. Pretty much. So if I get stopped by an inmate and they ask me a question, I don't have that answer, but I tell you I'll find out, I better find out by the end of the day or before I'm done. done to find that answer for you. And I'll go out of my way to find you again to give you the answer.

Because if I told you I'm going to do it, I'm going to. You know every guard is not, or correctional officer is not like that. Which is ironic because we're all told that. Yeah. And you're told that in the academy and you're told that by seasoned officers training you at the academy. I would say probably in my situation, two out of ten I met were like that. Yeah. And those are the ones you always remember forever, like that they looked after you because

life comes full circle, you know? Right. Like I'll run, Danbury is a small town, and there's a Danbury Federal prison, which I was in. I'll run into guards at, like, the local bagel shop in the morning.

If you go, like, right before shift change, at the right time, they're all there. So they remember you and stuff, and they listen to the show and stuff. Yeah. I actually,

I got put in the shoe because my ex-girlfriend's cousin worked at the prison, and he used to come over to my house before I was in prison, and he had a report that I knew him. So they put me in the shoe for a conflict of interest.

But he ran into me at the bar like a year ago or a few months, like six months ago. And he was like apologizing. He's like, I just had to do my job. I'm like, dude, no hard feelings. Like you were, you did your job, you know? Like, I get it. Which I'm surprising that that's what happened is that you had to go. Did you get moved from the institution?

Yeah, they put me in the shoe, dragged me out for like four months. It was terrible. But you stayed in that institution. Yeah, he was allowed to work. I think he was put on perimeter and I was put in the shoe. So I couldn't do anything. But there was like prison guards that used to bounce for me at the club that never reported it, that literally were under the payroll and did not report it. Well, I guess you would have to have a more personal relationship.

But, yeah, that's, I mean, so it's funny to hear that. So he actually had to write down on paper. So he's doing what he's supposed to do, which is report knowing you. Not that there's anything more drastic than that, right? So he's not asking for separation. You didn't threaten him. Tried to extort him. He didn't catch you.

None of that. He just wrote down that he knew you. Or had a personal relationship with you prior to. They locked me right up. And you go to the shoe and he goes to perimeter. Yeah, and my life's affected. Way more. He gets to go home.

Now my life is way more miserable. Right. But I got great content. And I know that I had to, write a report. So I remember being in the dining hall. And then somebody called me by my government name. And I didn't move.

And then they asked about my family. And I had to like go back and be like, you know, hey, I think, like I feel like this is kind of, you know, an issue. And it was a little bit deeper than that because he actually had, you know, a pride. bad history with a family member of mine. And nothing. Wow. There's no separation. There's no, we're not seeing him again later.

He's not going. I think he did get taken out and brought down to the ship, but it was like less than 72 hours. What's your thoughts on the use of the shoe? So like when we're talking about Califah Router, right, is it really a persuasion technique? Like, does that actually deter somebody from doing something inside? Like, is that going to be a deterrent?

Like, the death penalty? Because obviously the death penalty is not that much of a deterrent because murder still happens, right? So how much shoe time is it? That's, like, true punishment. There's guys in there for six months for investigations because there's no cap. It's worse in prison. It's, and that is that torture. That is borderline torture.

But that's, you know, the max that we have to do. But is that benefiting you? And then is that going to aid me? Because at some time you're going to get out of the show. And there's this conflict there. But it can drive a person insane. And then the stuff that happens to you in there, like the changes in your mentality. that'll never leave you.

No. You know, you get to, that is now the gift that you get to carry forever. And that you then end up, like, taking home. But you also end up taking a back to the block, too. So does it necessarily change your mentality? I could see how it could make someone go crazy in there. Yeah. Like, you need to be mentally tough to make it through that for any period of time.

Would be challenging. And I'll tell you what the worst thing was. If you get in there on a Tuesday in the book. cart came Monday, your S-O-L until the following Monday, because some people are not bringing you a book, and you'd have that one officer that when you ask for a book, he hands you the Bible

or something religious. I read the Bible when I got to Philly, because there was nothing else to read. And, I mean, it's about our most famous death row inmate. What, the Bible is? Yeah, Jesus. Oh, okay. That makes sense. So it's just, like, things like that.

Like, they, it's just, it's nuts. It's a crippling experience for for somebody. And anybody, it doesn't necessarily, you can be incredibly mentally tough. There's going to be lasting damage. I mean, no matter what, you know, my own personal belief. I mean, the extreme isolation and then feelings that it makes you go through. And then, you know, there are people that use it for the wrong reasons, you know, it's like drastic manipulation. But there's a famous thing called the Stanford Prison Experiment. And that's, you know, literally something that it's about.

And when you learn about this in college, too, and, like, there was a movie about it as well, this was not a long period of time that these college students, some are playing officers and then some are playing inmates, that personality trait changes happen. And they had to close the experiment early. It was supposed to be over a number of months. It only lasted days. days before there was like rampant abuse and like an uprising. It was, but that's how mentally that can be.

And the shoe can break somebody even an incredibly tough person. It is just a harrowing experiment. Absolutely. So one of the reasons why you were saying that you had reached out because you like the inspirational aspect to the show. What does that mean for you? How does like this show relate to you in that regard? So I think that, you know, like what we were talking is that, you know, you found a way to take something that can potentially break an average person.

Like, that can be what defines you for the remainder of your life. And you didn't allow that to happen. And then you found a way to talk about it, express it, bring like, you know, here are things that were good for me. Here is like the parts of the experience that were terrible for me. It's inspired other people to open up. And instead of you just climbing the ladder is that you're always reaching back and down to help lift somebody up. And I think that that is really the message that needs to go out. I mean, the city of Philadelphia itself has a lot of misguided youth and that, you know, there's a drastic number.

They're going in and out forever. And if they knew that there were things. that they could do and apply themselves differently, that they wouldn't need to have this experience. Yeah, something I was, that the more and more I think of, because I'm helping this child with autism who has been getting picked up, picked on in school. He came to me, his family came to me,

and I'm helping them create content for him, like have his own podcast, because that then becomes a superpower standing out and being different. And I realize, like, how special. that makes them feel, and I want to do that for, like, more kids because there's more kids that feel like that. And I feel like when you have, like, access to a studio and the professional content, you can feel like one of these big-time celebrities are influencers. And to be able to show people how to do it.

I mean, you know, because a lot of people won't tell you what's in the secret sauce and you don't have an issue. Explain people how that they can do it. Yeah, I'll tell them. I don't really have a secret. Like, people, if someone asks me, I'll tell them. all day. I think the biggest thing is, is that the work aspect, because this is like a, this is a 24-7 thing. Like, you have to grind. You have to, there's no off. I mean, I was incredibly surprised on how quickly I heard back from you. Like I said, I didn't even believe it. I was like, no, there's no way.

Well, thank you, Ben. This has been a, you know, a great conversation. I really appreciate you, coming out here today and sitting with me for this. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I said, I do like the message that you put out there that there's so much, there's bigger things for people and that this isn't the defining moment of your life and that, you know,

this time can make you better and bigger and more Brazilian. And then I love the way that you're, you know, you drag people up and that's like a rare thing in the world. Most people would prefer to put somebody in a box and like leave them there.

I was a kid that was made fun up for putting quotes on Facebook and Instagram growing up. I was a quotes boy. When I was actually in prison, I would read books and highlight the quotes and write them down. I have all the old notes still and stuff. I just like I like quotes. I like inspiration and stuff.

Knowledge is power. Yeah. I mean, you know, and you pass a lot of that on too. So I think like that in itself is really cool.