Locked In with Ian Bick - Inmate Reveals The Truth About Using The Phone In Prison | Ian Ashton

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

Ian Ashton reveals his encounters with the law, periods of incarceration, and the gritty reality of prison life, culminating in a powerful tale of redemption and personal growth. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Ian Ashton: IG: @nysector YT: @nysector TikTok: @nysector FB: NYSector NYSECTOR on all music streaming platforms Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:03:31 - Growing up without a father 00:07:06 - Influence of Idols in Music Career 00:10:55 - Acting out and Getting into Trouble 00:14:54 - Falling into the Rabbit Hole 00:19:10 - A Brush with the Law 00:22:58 - A Long Road to Recovery 00:26:35 - First Time in Jail 00:30:05 - Getting Cool and Observing in Prison 00:33:46 - The Prison Hustle 00:37:03 - Contraband in Prison 00:43:53 - Phone Times and Hustles in Prison 00:47:20 - From Destruction to Redemption 00:50:54 - Discussing the Conversation with His Son 00:54:35 - The Purpose of Music and Growth 00:58:21 - Farewell and Safe Travels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Somebody approached me, go to the bathroom. We just squabbled real quick, and, you know, you get your respect from there, all right? They know I'm not somebody just to walk on. So what would have happened if you didn't go to the bathroom? You're going to look like you're afraid, and that's not a place to be afraid. It's time to stand on your own, too. And if somebody calls you to something, you got to go. Welcome back to the Lockton with Ian Bick podcast.

On today's episode, we have two Ian's on the show. That's right, two Ian's, myself and Ian Ashton, who's going to reveal how a criminal possessing charge ended up in prison. Remember, you could stay updated of the show by following me on my Instagram at Ian underscore Bick. And remember to get your official locked-in merch at Ian Bick.com and use code locked in to get 20% off your order. Now sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with Ian Ashton. Where does your name, Ian come from? From what I was told, my mother and my father liked Ian Fleming, the actor. So I guess that's what they came up with, you know?

Yeah. I thought it was cool. How about yours? My dad's dad's name was Irving. So they wanted like a name that started with an I. Right. So they landed on Ian. So it's Ian Parker, Beck.

Okay. Yeah. I'm Ian Patrick. I'm IPA. Oh, okay. Is that, are you Irish? Yes, I'm Irish and Italian. That's why you like 1090 Jake.

I think he's Irish. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. I think 1090 Jake's story is pretty cool. You know what I mean? It's unique. But I like how he has changed the narrative. So that's why I kind of gravitate towards that.

Plus he's hip-hop. He's hip-hop oriented. Yeah. Do you follow a lot of prison podcasts or podcasts in general? No, not per se. I do a lot of interviews on them with the music. But aside from that, I don't per se follow a lot of them. I follow ones with substance or something I can learn from.

How do you stumble across this one? Funny thing is, somebody at my job is a big fan of yours. Oh. And because I work in, at that point I was at an outpatient rehab center. I work as a certified recovery peer advocate now. So she saw it and she watches you all the time. So she was like, you know, your story is really, you know, is dope. Like you should really try to see if you could write in.

So just off of where my did it, you know, I checked out your podcast. I liked how you guys do it and the content, you know, how it's the story is to, you know, show how you change. Yeah. And how this, you know, being locked up is not it, you know. So I rode in and you guys wrote back. So it was cool. That's awesome, then. Yeah, yeah.

Pleasure. Did you grow up in Long Island? Yes, born and raised. I really never left. Where in Long Island? I'm from Mastic. That's in Suffolk County. Okay.

What was that like? I mean, I was a very sports-oriented kid growing up, so I was more into the sports. And me and my friends riding bikes everywhere. Mom doesn't know we're, you know, five miles down the road playing baseball at some park, you know. But we had a good time growing up Weren't those a good old days, man? You just go out on the bike until dawn or sunset And that's when you knew what time to come home

There was no cell phones Better be home before the street lamps come on Yeah, oh man, that was just a good old days Having the little wheelie bars on the back of the bike too And you would have someone else ride on the back And ride behind it For sure, that was a good old day What a flashback

Did you come from a two family home Two parent home? No, my mother was a single mother My father passed when I was young, He passed when I was seven, so my mother was the head of the house. And siblings? Yes, but they were all older, a lot older than me. Only one of my sisters was anywhere close to my age and she was 11 years older than me.

So I was really, they were more out of the house by the time I was even aware of what was going on. How'd that make you feel? I didn't know anything different really, you know, until I came to realize, you know, it was just me and mom, you know? So it was just, you know, once my father passed, it was an adjustment. But, you know, any kid really, you know, not having your father around that early, it kind of does affect you in a lot of ways. But I had to forgive all that. And that didn't happen until I was in reception up north in the state, honestly,

because I was with myself, by myself, had to learn to get independent again. And it was just like, you know what, I can't live in the past anymore. You know, I have to change it. Did you guys have a close relationship? you and your father from what you can remember? Yes, very much so. My dad was, we were really tight, you know, at that point. But, you know, life is, nothing you can do about it.

You know, it wasn't his choice. Did you go to public schools? Yes, I went to public school. I went to William Floyd High School. Big school. Very big school. Big into sports. You know, it was a good time.

I had a blast in school. What kind of a kid would people describe you as if we had some of your friends from back then here? I was friends with everybody, honestly. Like, I had never had problems in school with my peers. We all really got along with everybody, you know. Especially being a sports kid. You know, you're on a bunch of different teams. You know, I was with the older kids a lot of times.

So it was a lot of fun. What was your favorite sport that you played? Well, I ended up going to college for soccer, playing soccer. So that passed on to your son now. Yes, yes. I don't know. Runs in the family. Yeah, but I was a two sport athlete in high school. I played soccer and baseball.

I took those both very serious. Okay. So when you went to college for soccer, was that on like a scholarship? Were you playing at that level? No, I decided to go D3 to stay closer to home. I had offers, but it wasn't my path at that point. So I decided to stay closer at home.

I wanted to be close to home, honestly. That was the thing. I wasn't ready to branch out yet, I guess. What college did you end up going to? I went to SUNY Old Westbury in Long Island. Okay. For two years, I ended up tearing my knee. So then from there, I would pursue the Music Avenue.

So I finished my bachelor's at Five Towns College for business management and audio recording technology. So you switched majors halfway through? Yes. I went for media and communications to business management. What was your college experience? Like, was it normal, or you getting in any trouble or anything? Or you're just doing you? I mean, I caught my first.

misdemeanor, real misdemeanor in college, honestly. But I was, like I said, that was really, when the sports, when I hurt my knee, that's when sports kind of went out the window and I started gravitating towards the music. And I felt I had to live what I spoke about. So that brought me down the wrong path, so to speak. So the music is what you were speaking about that you felt that you had to go down. that path. Yeah, in a lot of ways, looking back at it, that was my biggest influence. How did you land on the music to begin with? Because you were very passionate about sports.

Music and sports are very different. Yeah, I was first a poet. Oh, this is a first. Yeah, I was a poet when I was very young. I was published in like the fifth grade elementary poetry book that they had that they would give out in first grade. So it was unheard of back then. So I don't know. When I got to middle school, like, I really loved hip hop. Like, it was my favorite thing to listen to, all my friends listened to it. And I just started writing one day. And it just kept blossoming and blossoming. So it was natural to go right into music as soon as the sports career ended? I was already, like, in between at that point. Once I got to college is when I started actually really caring about music that much. Before that, it was more just for fun.

Well, yeah, when I got to college, once I lost soccer, music was everything. That was my only outlet left because sports was my outlet. When I lost that, it became music. What did you think your mom's opinion was of your music career choice? In the beginning? Oh, she couldn't stand it. Oh, no, no, no, no. No, she couldn't stand there, especially at a college.

I had my own studio, but it was the first one I had was in my mom's house. So I had everybody and their mother through that thing. And she could not stand it. She'd come home. She'd smell all types of bad smells. And she'd be like, why are you doing it here? Why is everybody in here? Yeah, it was she didn't like it very much.

But eventually, I think now she appreciates it more because I'm more creative. And it's not all about the negativity for me. It's more for showing growth. Were you making any money during the beginning of your music career? No. Okay. So you think that had an effect on the path you would choose? I felt there was the end.

goal was to make money and that I could do it. So when I put my mind to something, I go full force. And it's something I never really gave up on. And it finally is coming to fruition now. So it's about the dedication you put into it. And nothing comes overnight. You know, it's a lot of hard, there's bumps in the road. There's hard lessons. There's bad deals. A lot of things can happen, you know. And when you're a child, you know, in the 20s, you're really not caring. You know, it's all about the glitz and glamour. Now it's about being stable and generational wealth. That's how I look at life now.

So what was it in the music that propelled you to go down that bad path? Like, why would you even start talking about that in the music to begin with? What influenced you? My idols influenced me. All of them were selling drugs and running around the streets and, you know, fighting and all that type of stuff. So if I wanted to be like them, how could I be like them? But I emulated what they said, not knowing that they didn't even really do that stuff, a lot of them. Maybe some of them did, but not all of them.

You know, so I felt that if I wanted to speak about it and be like that, I had to live that life. Who are some of you looked up to? JZ, DMX, Lil Wayne, you know, those were big influences, and they all were talking about what? drugs, guns, violence, you know, street life. So I felt like that's what I wanted to do so bad. Like that was it. Like, how can I be in the music and make hip hop and talk about things that I don't live?

Because everybody gets exposed for that. Well, I decided to live it, but it wasn't the right choice now that I know. Where was that pressure coming from? Like, was there social media back then that was kind of giving you that? No, it wasn't. It was the people that were, actually the better rappers in the hood. So for me, it was like, you know, they're getting all this attention, you know.

They don't have to work. Like, they got all this money, nice cars, jewelry, you know, everything I wanted, everything I felt I needed to have to be, like, famous or something. I don't really know per se. But it's a warped thinking. Warped thinking now, you know? So what was your first act into? that life that, you know, you got your feet wet.

Because you grew up a normal kid. You were just a sports, you know, you'd never gotten any trouble. Right. So what was that first instinct like for you? My junior year at high school, I started acting out. Honestly, I had a lot of anger issues, mainly stemming from situations I couldn't control but didn't understand that. So being as though that was the case, I was already getting in trouble.

in high school, but it wasn't outside of school. It was just in school. You know, I was getting in more trouble with the security guards and teachers than anybody. Like I said, I never had any trouble with my peers. We were all, I always got along with everybody. But I got into my first fight outside of school. I never got in fight to school,

but after I got out of high school is when I got to my first fight and got arrested my first time. And I was 18 years. old and it was probably for the dumbest reason in the world. I can't even tell you what it was for, but I just know looking back, it made no sense. There was no reason for it. But that arrest, like, I felt cooler at the time, you know? Oh, I got my first mugshot, even though it's like blacks and blue is all over me because it was a big melee fight. You know what I mean? But it

taught me nothing. It taught me nothing but more. Like, I was hungry for more. I don't know why, but like I set off a chain reaction Where'd you go looking for more? Anyway In the clubs You know I would be around my cousin was a wild one Back in the day too

So anyway he went We were into something You know bar fights for no reason Somebody looked at this room Somebody stepped on our shoes It was you know It's a shame But that's how it was

We were kids We didn't understand any better So it sounded like you had a lot of anger Yes Misdirected anger at people that didn't deserve to get what they got. Where do you think that anger came from? I had a lot of resentment for circumstances,

even though they weren't as bad as others. Emotionally, I was not there. I don't want to really get into why at this because I don't want anybody to feel some type of way. I've healed from that. I don't, it doesn't bother me anymore. But yeah, it was, I was just misunderstood.

I feel like nobody asked me why I was acting out ever. It was just, you know, he's got mental health problems or, you know, he's never going to be anything, you know? And to get locked up years later, it was like they won. So I had to prove that that wasn't the last straw for me. Like, I can change that narrative. You know, I want to always be in control of my own narrative. narrative, you know, and make those around me proud because I'm proud of me for once.

So the wake-up call was going to jail. So when you finished college, did you have like a career or you're just doing the music in your mom's basement? Yeah, that was my career. That and honestly, I was selling drugs too. And I was on drugs at the time, you know? It kind of went hand in hand with the surroundings that I had. How did you get exposed to the drug game?

That was just from the rappers and your name. A friend. A friend. Honestly, yeah. A couple friends who were into it at the time. And pills was the thing that was when like the oxycodone and stuff like that was popular. And I fell into that rabbit hole pretty bad, you know? A lot of lessons behind that.

But nine years later, you got a clean man, too. You know, I've been clean since 2015. So you can't recover. Absolutely. What was it for you that drew you into that? like once you discovered pills and any other drugs you were doing. Did it take away like the pain and sadness within you? Or was it like the money aspect of selling it?

Both. It was the being the man because I had it. It was numbing the pain from the traumas that I didn't want to face. It was cool to do it with certain people. You know, it was literally it was the epidemic of the old. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business.

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So everybody was doing it. You know? So it didn't seem so bad at the time, you know? But I didn't even notice I was addicted until maybe a year in. You know, and I'm like, oh, wow, I can't not have it. I'll be sick and this will happen and I have to do this. And how am I supposed to do this stuff if I'm sick, you know? So, yeah, it's a sad thing.

How was your relationship with your mom when this was going on? Terrible. Terrible, but my mother's always been a tough love type person, which I'm blessed for because that's the only way I learn, apparently. You know? My mother gave me an ultimatum one day, and she said, if you don't get clean, this is going to happen. And that was the last day I ever used. And that was after jail, after prison. No, that was before.

Oh, so you stopped using before you even went to prison. Yes, but me stopping using just made the selling. more, you know, because I didn't have a habit anymore. So all of it was profit. So you were still able to give up your habit and maintain selling it and being around those drugs? Yes. A lot of people can't do that. Well, I took the Vivitrol shot. What is that? What it does is it blocks, for 28 days, it blocks the opiates. So you can't even get high if you tried. So that was my blessing in that moment, because it was still around me, but I never used it. I didn't want to.

No craving for it or nothing. So that was a gift and the curse, you know, at the same time. But that the selling of it is what led me to my prison bit. So, you know, I didn't learn until I had to do the time, you know, after doing the crime. Now, when you say drug dealer, are you moving a lot of weight, or is this just to get by and pay some expenses? What are you guys doing? It was a decent amount. You know, we weren't kingpins or anything like that.

I wouldn't call that. But we were good. You know, we didn't want for anything. Nobody wanted for anything. It was a constant party. You know, everybody was always, it was the place to be. We were, we would have been around the way. Yeah.

So you guys weren't like expanding, making it really a business. It was just, just for fun, for whatever. We were young. We were rappers. You know what I mean? We just wanted to change and, you know, renting cars. And, you know, we blew the money. We didn't do anything smart with it.

Had we done that later in life, maybe we would have. But I would never go back. Yeah, exactly. So how do you guys end up, or how do you end up getting in trouble with the law then and going to prison from this drug dealing business? Well, it's the funny part is we had stopped before I even caught the bit. but not too far before. So I actually got caught for a gun charge.

So it was totally different, but it was because of, I had heard an empty threat that I was an easy target. So I took the demean literally. So my thought process at that time was better to get caught with it than caught without it. You understand? So when I did get pulled over with that in the car,

I had to eat it. So you just randomly got a gun and just started carrying it around for protection? Yes, more or less. That would be the easy way to say yes. Was it easy to find and get a hold of a gun? Whatever you want, when you're in that type of lifestyle, it's not hard to find. You can get it if you want to. Does that make you worried for the world looking back on it now?

like how easy and accessible it is to get guns illegally? Yes, and because the wrong people get them. And I probably shouldn't have one either. You know, I definitely shouldn't have. So me getting caught with it was probably the best thing to happen because I was reckless at that time and I didn't care. So me getting caught saved my life probably in a lot of ways. You know, because anything could have happened at that time.

It was just my mentality was I didn't care. You know, it didn't matter what tomorrow brought. Because I didn't think I would ever see tomorrow every day. You know, that type of mentality. So it was all bets are off and please, you know, like that. It was protection. I wasn't going looking for a problem. Genuinely, it wasn't.

But if something happened, I'm just glad I got caught with it. Let's just call it. So describe the day you got pulled over Because how would they even have searched your car To find the gun without probable cause? Well, this is the funny part. Okay, so I went to the gas station, right? I went to the gas station just to get some blunt wraps.

All right? Because I was smoking weed at the time. So I went to the gas station. I was on my way back. It's a four-way stop. And I see the detective car right in front of me. He's the opposite of me. So he's coming this way.

I'm going that way. All right? Stop the sign regular. I didn't have my seatbelt on. Okay? But I know detectives don't pull you over for seatbelts. Not having a seatbelt. They have more important things to do. So I didn't go reaching for it or anything. I just kept driving. They whipped around and pulled me over.

But I didn't run from them. I just pulled over. You know? It was a little simple infraction. If you're going to pull me over for that seatbelt. All right? So they come to the car. You know, you pulled you over? Yes, sir. I don't have a seatbelt. Don't I apologize. I take the ticket. That's on me. He's like, oh, it smells like marijuana in here. I said, sir, I don't smoke in his car.

Never have, never will. He's like, can you step out? I said, no, I'm not stepping out of the car. So they ripped me out of the car, of course. And they found the gun like that. Where was it just under the seat? It was under my seat. Yes.

You think someone told on you? Absolutely. So that's what you think. Okay. Yes. I have, I don't want to get into who. I know who, but it's water under the bridge. I'm not, there's nothing I can do about that.

It's over, you know? But yeah, they knew exactly where it was right away. When they found the gun, how'd they start treating you? Oh, like I was like the worst person in the world because it was a small 22. So they were, all these are cop killers. I'm like, listen, I was, no, that's not, that's not how it is. That was it. I shut my mouth and I, you know, just got me a lawyer.

And did you get bail that day when they took you the station? Yeah, it was $10,000. So I got out. Thankfully, I had a family member that bailed me out. Yeah, but then I was a long road from there, you know, a year and a half in the outside trying to fight something like that. At least you weren't inside trying to fight that. Very true, because I had the resources.

How old are you? 24. At that time? I think I was 29. Oh, so this was years had gone. by? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

So you had a good run, kind of. I did have a good run, and by the grace of God, you know, nothing, no terrible things happened, you know? So it's that whole span of time, no career, just music pushing weight, that was it? Like that was the life getting high until you got sober? Yeah, I got sober in 2015. I caught the charge of 2017. Okay.

So how old, you were 29, 2017? Yeah, I'm 37 now. So I was 20, yeah, something like that. 17, you know, 7, 30, 31 maybe. Around 30, 31, something like that. Yeah, something like that. Okay. I don't know, my math isn't great right now.

No, I would just put it in perspective. So over that year and a half, there was no opportunity to do like some type of plea deal or get no time because it was your first felony, right? No, they, my lawyer kept telling me they wanted me to talk. So I'm not about that. So I, over the three and a half, I mean, over the year and a half that I was fighting it, my deal never changed. It was, you blow trial, you're getting nine, or you take this three and a half with five posts. So I was hoping that they would drop it a little low, but that's the mandatory minimum anyway. So, yeah, so when I got originally charged, I got charged with criminal possession of a weapon in the second.

when I got officially indicted I also had a possession of a firearm charge on top of it so they did that to make me cop out to the highest charge and they dropped it when I pled guilty I pled guilty to the top charge which was the CPW second they dropped the possession of a firearm so it was basically they bonded me like they had me I knew I wasn't getting out of it I wouldn't talk

so I got my three and a half for five the minorsori minimum So when you go into sentencing because you took the deal and then you had sentencing? Yes. There's no self-surrender, right, to take you in that day? Yeah, you go in on sentencing. Okay. Yeah, you come to sentencing, you're already dressed in your greens,

you know, green sweatsuit to go prepare, you know, to go in and that's it. How do you get, like, your affairs in order on the street to go away for, like, three years? What was that, like, mentally and physically? It was tough on the mental, you know, because I have two kids, so making sure that they're going to be good. They're with the right adult. You know, I'm blessed that my mother stepped up for my son for me because I'm a single father who has custody of his child.

So, and my daughter's with a different mother, and she has a residential custody of my daughter. So I have good support system. And they were all with me the whole time as far as the support. So I am very blessed when it comes down to it. Would your mom think of you getting this gun charge and getting sentenced to prison? Um, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure it hurt more than anything. I don't know what type of backlash or what she heard because she's never said anything to me. I'm sure she got criticized and, you know, people whispering in the background and things like that. But my mother's a strong woman, man. So honestly, like, there's nothing that she can't get through. And she's a big influence on me, which is why I get through everything.

Sounds like a great mother. For sure. She's strong. So when you got booked and they brought you to prison, where'd they send you to? For reception, like in the beginning? Yeah, walk us through the whole process. I went to Riverhead for six days. I was in Riverhead reception, which is, you know, just a single cell, 23 and one lockdown.

From there, they sent me to Yapank, which is the other county jail, because I was sent this to state time. So they'd bring you to Yadpank for your transfer. So I stayed there for eight days in the park. Then I was shot right up there. And this is the first time I've ever stepped into jail. So the whole experience is new. I've always only done like an overnight, you know,

but bailed out and figured out a way out of it with lawyers. But, you know, I had good lawyers. This time I fired my original lawyer. So I kind of screwed myself because I trusted somebody that sold me down the river. Didn't fight for me, you know? So, but I've always had great lawyers in the past. and they got me out of a lot of things. So this was the wake-up call

because I never had to experience jail. So it's like going from the college to the pros type thing, or high school to the pros, because I'm in the street and then I'm going to jail for a long period of time, you know, with no experience behind how to move. So all my friends were teaching me how to, you know, what the etiquette was before I was going in

because they have all done time before. You know what I mean? And they've prepared me for it. So two weeks in county, straight upstate to the next reception. What were you expecting versus what was the actual reality once you got there? I was expecting a lot more chaos, like in your face chaos at the time. But when I got transferred to downstate reception, that's the upstate reception at that time.

It's not close. But like the minute I got up to there, like, yeah, there was five stabbings in two days. I'm like, oh, all right, so this is a little different. right, I guess I gotta be prepared. That was my first thought. So I'm like, man, I'm a little nervous, you know, definitely nervous because, like I said, first experience is new. I don't know what to expect.

So, yeah, I'm definitely nervous for a little while. Until you start getting used to it. You know, you're getting into the routine. You start getting to know people. You got, you know, in downstate what they have it is, it's like two, two and two. So it's like a horseshoe and you have single cells all around you. So you can start to get to new. know the people are in your in your tears.

So it starts to get a little easier after that. You know, you start to gain a relationship with people and you start to build something to where you got a little bit of respect. You know, and that goes a long way. It goes a long way, helping each other out when you have nothing because reception, you have nothing, at least for the first three weeks. Everybody's hurting, you know? You don't see commissary for at least three weeks to a month when you get up there.

So we're all, you know, banding together. How are you approached by other inmates when you first got in there? What did they say to you when you first walk in? I don't recall anything negative. But I was big on head down, observe, and know your surroundings before you have any conversations. I feel like that's a big thing in there because you have to know who's who. You know, there's certain people that run the shit and there's nothing you can do about it. So how do you maneuver around that?

You know? Who's got some pull? You start getting cool with little by little. You start getting cool people respect you because you're staying out of the bullshit. You're staying out of the business. All the politics is not for you. You end up being all right, you know? You get with the right people.

How do you figure out who is running the prison? I sit back and watch the phone. You know, who's on the phone all the time? And, you know, in New York State after 8 o'clock, that's all slot times. So that's how you start to know who's who, you know. What do you mean by slot times? Slot times. In New York, in the New York State prisons, you get half hour slot times.

So 8 to 8.30 will be a slot. 8.30 to 9 will be a slot. And it goes all the way to 11. You know who's who after 8. What you have to do is observe. You just watch it back. You know who's who after 8. If it's your first day, see who was on the phone after 8 o'clock.

What was the hierarchy? Are there gangs, are their crews? How are people labeled? Well, you got all the gangs, of course, which is rampant throughout. The neutrals, they call them in New York 550s. And that's just the neutrals. Those are the ones that don't fall under any gang. And most of them stick together.

And also in New York, a lot of it is based on where you're from. So Long Island and New York City. or kind of stick together. And then upstate has their, you know, clicks. So if you're not per se in a gang, but you're from Long Island, you know, city people will look out for you and your fellow Long Islanders will look out for you. And did you take a liking to anyone specifically? Did you roll with anyone?

Yeah, yeah. As far as like... Anything, a crew, a gang. Oh, no, no. I respect everybody, man. Honestly, I was more just cool. Like, I don't care about all the extra stuff. I'm just trying to do my time and go home.

I play a little cards here and there. You know, I have a couple real tight friends that I still talk to every day that were up there together. But I was more just laid back. I read a lot of books upstate. What kind of books? Everything. Biographies, suspense.

I was big on James Patterson. I read the whole Alex Clarol. I used to read James Patterson in prison too. Yeah, I read all the Alex Cross books from first one all the way up. Great book. Yeah, it was a cool, cool series. And then there was the other one about, what is it, read? NYPD Red, yeah, like that series, yep, I read all those.

Those were great. Yeah, that was the big for me. Reading got me out of there. I didn't feel like I was still in prison anymore. I got to go into it and feel like I was a character in the book. So for a little while I wasn't in prison. You know, the only time other than that That you get a chance to not feel like it is when you're sleeping

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Self-taught, or you knew from the streets? I learned in there. Really? Actually, yeah. So you're able to work your way up that quickly? Because it's kind of like a sacred job in prison. You know, In that, I was only doing it in the houses.

Like, you're not even really supposed to do it. But if, you know, especially during, I was in during COVID. So we couldn't leave the housing units. So a lot of the CEOs wouldn't mind us doing it. And then people would pay me through the commissary, of course. So I was doing that all day. We didn't have any programs because we were locked in the house. So, yeah, that was my hustle.

And you could buy, what, a razor or something off the commissary? Yeah, you could buy the clippers. with the guard, but people that were already there would leave the ones grandfathered in that you can't get through the packaging room anymore. So I had like four or five of those. And I started learning. I was getting pretty nice. Do you give a good fade?

Yeah, I started to learn. I was doing it only with the comb, though. I wasn't even using the guard because I didn't trust the guard. So I was just in the comb and I was learning through others. And it was cool. And people just trusted you to do their hair? I mean, who else you're going to go to? We're locked in.

You're not getting out of the house unless maybe you go to the yard. But at that time, people are actually cool with me messing their hair up because they wanted me to get better. It was cool. Like, I had a really good group of guys that I was in houses with constantly. Like, I can't even lie. Like, there was the drama and regular stuff. But, like, I always had a bunch of cool dudes. Honestly, that, like, they took a liking to me just because I stayed out of the way and I didn't get involved in shit.

Did you do the thing where you would pop out the razor in the actual razor blade? No, no, no. To use for, like, the adjups or whatever. No, I didn't get that for me. And if somebody wanted to do that, we'll get to raise it from the CEO because I wasn't trying to get into all that. And if it gets lost, my God. How were other inmates during COVID? Were they, like, more worked up and angry?

Or did it kind of mellow the place out? What was the dynamic? Everybody. It was hectic. That's like the best word I can say is hectic. Everybody's worried about what's going on. We don't understand what's going on because we're only seeing what's on the news. So we're not really immersed in the world of what's really going on.

We're so we get biased information, right? So we're worried about our loved ones because we're hearing about how everybody's dying. We're seeing people fall out in front of us because they have blood clots in their lungs and they can't breathe and they're just dropping. You know, we're trying to be safe for each other. But the COs are bringing it all in and the staff, right? They shut down our visits. So everybody's pissed. Now you've got to remember, visits are a lot of ways for the drugs to come in.

Now the drugs are getting worse. You know, you can't find them no more. People are losing their minds. It's sad. It was hard. It was a hard thing to do go through COVID-I think of then. Yeah, how'd that affect the whole prison economy? Were prices going up?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Were they? Yes, they went up a lot. Whereas a strip normally went for $50 for people. They were now paying. Yeah, Suboxin's just. they were now paying 200 for the same thing

because the only way they were getting it through was the packages Like through the mail, right? Right, because they couldn't get anything in visits anymore. So boxing kind of looks like a paper, right? Yeah, it's like a film. Yeah. And people were just laying that over their letters? I don't want to give out how they were getting it.

There were many different ways of how they would do it. I don't want to do that because if they're still finding ways, I don't want to be the one to ruin their shit. Excuse me language. But yeah, I wanted to, they're creative. People are creative. I know in a lot of prisons, they started to stop, they stopped getting the original letter.

They would do photocopies. Yes. Like in the feds, when I was there, like midway through it, they said, you're not getting your letters anymore. No scented letters. And everything's photocopied. Okay, yeah, they even stopped the legal mail from coming through. They have now where I was at, I was in mid-state.

for a while and they have a light, like an illuminated light that goes over the paper to make sure they're not spraying it. Yeah, the spray was popular too. They crack it down pretty quick. Yeah, they figured it out. They're finding a lot of things. Guys can make like five or ten grand off of one sheet of paper. Yes.

Isn't that nuts? Yeah. Some guys would rather be in prison because they were hustling. I'm not going to lie. I know somebody that left with a million dollars. On their books are just from the street. They're funneling it? Yeah.

You don't want to get in. to how, but yeah. Are you guys using Western Union in the state, too? No, they use a cash app. Okay. Cash app's big in there. But, but like for the technical prison itself, though, like if someone wants to put commissary on your books.

J-Pay. Jay-Pay. And is that through Western Union? No, you can actually load it up right on the app. Okay. Which is actually convenient. And they got tablets up there now, too. We got the tablets like, I want to say, 2019.

You had a tablet? Yeah. So what's a tablet like? You can download music on there You could get movies, rent movies You get emails from your friends outside It's actually a cool thing And it keeps inmates more sane

Does everyone get a tablet? Everyone gets a tablet They don't have to pay for it No, it's free from the state But you got to pay for like your stamps and stuff like that And then when you get the tablet You just have to pay for movies or are they free movies? They don't normally have free movies

It's rare sometimes they do it During the pandemic, they did. It was probably to keep us calm because of all the recklessness stuff was going on at that point. But, no, the movies cost money just to rent them. And I think you get like 48 hours or 24 hours. How much was a movie? It could be anywhere from some garbage independent film for $2 to like $10 sometimes,

depending on what it is. Yeah, it could be even more. Music, though, you can download music. I actually have a song on for that. people download all the time from me, which is great. And you got paid for that? Yeah. Yeah.

After a certain amount, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, it's crazy. Was that hard to get on there? You know, I was trying to get, while I was up there, was trying to get people to upload music of mine, so I could show people while I was there. But nobody could figure it out. And then I got home, and I figured it out myself.

So there's a way to do it. So I got it on. I only put one song on there for now. But it's cool because then the people that I still know up there, they go download it. they have somebody to brag about while they're in there. You know, I know this guy's on it. You know, because you never really see anybody you know on it. But when you do, it's like, oh, my boy's on the tabit, look, you know.

So it makes you, it's a bragging piece. Like, oh, I know this guy. You know, it makes you feel better in there. It's cool. When the pandemic hit, did they start kind of like changing up the meals? Like, did they move from like trays to bag lunches, skimbing out on the meals or anything like that? Not where I was at. Okay.

No, maybe for like the first week. Or if only if, because they were quarantined. houses by themselves. So housing units that got quarantined because somebody had COVID, they would do feed-ups. They bring you bag lunch and bag dinners or whatever. But no, they had the mess whole open. They just had us sitting. Instead of, we used to be crammed on top of each other, like on top.

And they had to separate a seat. So it wasn't six feet, but it was a seat. So it was a little more space, maybe like, you know, an arm's length. At least you can eat without having to be like this, you know. Out of respect. Were any of the guys becoming like germaphobs? Like during the pandemic, you would see people in the grocery stores, like in suits or whatever, like protective suits. How would guys in prison get creative to do stuff?

I mean, we would get the gloves. Oh, you guys were wearing gloves too? Yeah, yeah. Some of us have worked lawns and grounds. So you got the gloves for outside. So they were wearing that all around. It was weird. But a lot of us didn't even like take COVID serious.

Because we're hearing on the news and, you know, you don't believe the CEOs and what they tell you. You think, you know, it's always blue versus green in the state. So we kind of like didn't even care about it. Like, nah, you know, until we started seeing people fall out in front of us. And then we were like, uh-oh. But we were tasked with, you know, keeping our housing units clean. Like we all made sure it was clean just in case. Because like I said, we weren't bringing it in.

We weren't able to leave. We were stuck. So it was always coming from. staff. Were there a lot of fights and violence in this type of prison? Oh yeah. Yeah. It gets crazy in the mediums. But it always seemed to come in waves. You know, something with the gangs are happening. It'll cause a lot of things going on. But like, anything can happen. I'm sure you know. Like anything can happen at any time. Somebody's having a bad day. You stepped on there, a shoe, you could be fighting right there. You know, I saw a lot of violence in there.

definitely a lot of people getting cut their faces split open people's teeth you can see through their cheek it was yeah it got crazy and that was over what uh politics most of the time it's usually gang politics that cause that or they owe for drugs is usually the two main things it's usually what you see and you were able to stay away from all that yeah i only had to square up one time honestly and that was when i first walked in to reception upstate because I didn't understand the phones. So what do you mean? What happened?

Like, I just hopped right on the phone. Like, I just wanted to tell my mom that I was, you know, I was good, let the kids know I'm good. And so I like, yo, that's my time. All right, just give me one second. You know, I'm ignorant to it. Like, I know, like, don't go on after eight. I was already aware of that. But this is an eight o'clock.

So, yeah, somebody approached me. We can go to the bathroom. We just squabbled real quick. And, you know, you get your respect from there, all right? They know I'm not somebody just to walk on, you know? And that's it So what did he say? Go the bathroom?

Yeah, let's take it to the bathroom. All right. You put your shoes on and you go to the bathroom. So what would have happened if you didn't go the bathroom? You're going to look like you're afraid. And that's not a place to be afraid. It's time to stand on your own too. And if somebody calls you to something, you got to go.

And in those situations, they're not like being cheap. They're not pulling a knife out or anything. It's just a fair one. It depends on what you walk into. You don't know who you're dealing with, especially that first time walking. I don't know who. he is. You know? You don't know

what somebody has on him anytime. But I took the chance. I didn't have nothing. So there was nothing I could do. You know? And I took the chance and thank God he didn't put nothing on me. He could have. You know? So these phone times, they're not allotted by the prison system. That's what these inmates make up on their own. Yeah. The CEOs tried to do it, but one person with 30, 40 people in a house, you're not going to be able to keep track everything.

Listen, you just get into a routine, honestly. Like, I honestly usually avoided the whole 8 o'clock and a after. I didn't care about that. I'm tired anyway at 8. I don't need to be on the phone. You know, I just, and my kids are sleeping by then. So, you know, at that point, who do I have to talk to besides, to make sure they're good? Besides, mom's got my son, so I'm going to talk to them both.

And then my daughter got her own phone at that time. So I talked to them in a half hour click. I could do it at 5 o'clock, 5.30, nobody. bothers me. It's a time that nobody really cares about. And I avoid everything. You know, this is a very common theme in like movies and TV shows about the phone. Like just the whole stigma around it. You can't use someone else's phone can't cut in line. There's always like that big dude that's guarding the phone. It's selling phone hours. People make it a whole hustle. Yeah, they like police the phones in there. Absolutely. But hey, everything's a hustle. I heard in some prisons they're

doing the tablet works as a phone too. They have that in in the box. They have, they're able to use their tablets with the headphones, and they get it for like three hours a day now. Actually, my man just hit me up the other day and telling me how it was going. He's been in the box for like seven months now. It's for something he did in there? Yeah, for something he did. And they still give him access to the phone? You get the phone.

In New York State now, you get the phone in the box every day. They pass out the tablets. They give you your tablet, yes. For just three hours. Three hours. That's actually pretty cool. It's awesome. But compared to what it used to be.

Yeah, nothing. One phone call a month in the feds when you're in the box. It's crazy. Right. Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of the laws have changed. New York has changed a lot of laws, which has been helpful to the incarcerated people. Yeah.

Those tablets are probably definitely affecting, like, the economy in prisons. Like, with the phones and selling phone time and everything like that, if everyone has access now. Yeah, but you couldn't, when I was there, I left in 21. You couldn't use your tablet unless you were in the box. for a phone. They didn't have that access yet. I think that was something that was in the works.

But at that time, you had to use, there was either two phones in a house or three phones in a house. And that's what you used. How much time do you end up serving

on that sentence? I did three years out of the three and a half. I got, in New York State, there's two months good time a year for violent crimes.

My crime is considered violent because it's a loaded weapon. So I got two months every year. So I ended up doing three flat. And what was life like for you when you got out? Were you looking for a job? Was your probation officer strict? How did that work? It was, I was mandated to do programs in the beginning. But actually it was the biggest blessing for me because they mandated me to do a drug program only because my history of it,

no matter what, they make you do that in New York State most of the time. I was, I did the assessment for the place that I went to. And they even said I was. I didn't fit the criteria for it, but parole mandated it, so I had to do it. Blessing in disguise, I end up getting into the field, and that's what I do to this day, is I'm a certified recovery peer advocate, and the place that I went to is the one who pushed me into this field. So it was a blessing more than I knew, but I was open-minded to it. And so whatever parole needs, I just want to get off it. So, you know.

And they're open to having extensive criminal history, violence, criminal history, anything like that? Who? Yeah, on your record. Well, technically, my jobs, like description is more through a lived experience than anything. Like, that's how I connect with the people that I deal with and that I work with is because I have the experience of what they're going through now. Mine was just years ago. But it's a newer type of position, but it's being more recognized in the recovery community now because we connect on a different level. Yeah.

It's less clinical. It's more person to person, you know. I'm just a face of recovery. Like, you could be here too, you know? So it's me paying it forward in a lot of ways. And it's also me trying to redeem myself from the person I used to be where I was causing destruction. I heard they were doing that in a lot of states, like the peer recovery specialists. I think it helps tremendously, having someone that's relatable on that level to someone.

Yes, I agree. It makes, it's just an easier connection because I'm not an authority figure to you. I'm the same person as you. We're peers. You know, I just happen to have a lot of clean time. And I've been in recovery for a long time. And this is how I got there. It might not work for you, but how can we get you there?

And that's what I do all day. And I love it. Honestly, it gives me purpose. When you got out, what was your mentality? Like, did you want to go back into the street, hanging out with the old people you were with? No. Did you have a new mindset?

I had a totally different mindset. I worked on myself a lot. I took time to really get into it. with myself, understand, and forgive my past. And that's what's made me grow now and be the person I am today is because I learned to sit with myself. Coming, I didn't even wanna be involved anymore.

I'll go say hi, but other than that, like I won't hang out in a place that I know I shouldn't be. I'm a lot more aware. And I don't, and there's no knock to those people. You gotta get it how you live. And I never knocked the streets because it was still a part of me,

you know, it's something that I learned a lot from, good, better and different. But that's not the place for me anymore. It's just not. I can't be that same person. I can't risk another bit. What about your kids? How did they react to you coming home?

And what was that dynamic like? Well, see, they were visiting me the first year. And then once COVID hit, I wouldn't let them come see me anymore because I didn't want them to get sick on my accord, you know, because I didn't know how the pandemic was. I just seen everybody's dying all over the place. so they didn't see me for the last like year and a half of my bid so when I came home my son was very very excited my daughter she you know three years of

leaving a girl in her 9 10 11 you know it was a different like I didn't know she wasn't liking surprises at the time so she didn't take it as well but she's warmed up you know it took a little more work to have met that relationship were they old enough to understand what prison was and why you were in it? My son, not at the time. My daughter did.

She was a lot more mature for her age at the time, honestly, so she was more aware. But my son didn't understand. He was only five at the time. What was that first conversation like with him when it came time to have that discussion with him about it? It's more, he sees the change in me. He doesn't really remember that side of me,

but he didn't see a lot of that side of me. You got to understand my kids were sheltered from everything I was doing. They didn't know anything. But for him to understand it, I had to put it in perspective of, I made a lot of mistakes and I don't want you to make the same ones. So let me show. I was more of lead by example at this point rather than speak to him and tell them.

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and everything else I got going on and I work hard for also. And I still make sure I make his games with my daughter's games, you know, and be there full time as a father. So it was a hard conversation, but it was more of just let me show you what's going on.

Let me show you how I am now. So you don't even have to worry about what you thought you saw. How does it make you feel looking back on it that you lost that time with them? That was the hardest, time of my life losing with them honestly um kids don't deserve the mistakes we make and that's a hard lesson um and they don't yeah they don't deserve that their dad's being away because we want to do what we

want to do you know once you have children you got to kind of put them first at the same time like it's you and them there's no more just you you can't be bad selfish anymore you have to be positive selfish because if they don't see the positives in you they're going to do them to repeat the same mistakes you did. Kids think of us as idols. We're their idols, adults, you know. They're so innocent and they are very aware more so now because of the internet and the tabas they have. So you really have to, you have to be smart. As parenting is not easy, you know, there's a lot of, there's no manual to it. It's all about learning on the fly every time, you know, and everybody's different. Do other parents of their friends look at you differently in your eyes because of your

past? I'm sure some do. Nobody vocalizes that to myself, but if they do, there's nothing I can do about that. There's nothing I can do to change it. It is what it is. But look at the person you have in front of you now and you see the growth. Some people probably, the people that I have met after going to prison probably don't know unless they've heard from somebody. else because you wouldn't it's not the same person literally is not the same person if you met me you know four years ago as opposed to now

it's two different people so I guess it all depends what your mom think of you getting back into music after prison knowing that music put you into prison in the first place yeah she wasn't

she wasn't too happy with that one but you got to also understand that I wasn't originally going back to me music ever again. I was just going to music manage. But I had a lot of people ask me, where's your music? You know, and that's what got me. The fans got me back into it. Not anybody else. And then once I made that first song again, I fell back in the creative process. So, and I love that. So, yeah, mom wasn't heavy about that at all. But how's your mindset different towards music now, though? I'm more conscious of what I'm saying because I don't want people to misconstrue.

Because there is a past and a present and it gets kind of blurred in music in some ways. But I do come into the music with a plan every time because I try to make sure that people don't misconstrue it. Have you taken down like your old music because that represented a different part or do you use it to show your growth? I mostly took everything down. If there's some stuff up there, you can find it if you want to. but it's not on my page. So what's your music focused on now? It's a little bit more of a blend of,

this is how I used to be and this is how I am now. So it depends on what I'm going for. It depends on what the song calls for at that time. So I could be referencing old things or I could be referencing what's going on now as far as the growth and the positivity. So I'm more positive in my music these days, but there are references to old times,

if you get what I'm saying. So if your kid comes to you today and says, I want to give up sports and I want to get into music, what do you say to them? Do both. You can always do both. There's time for everything. But I wouldn't suggest giving up sports for music

unless you have a short path to making millions. And there's none of those left. I feel like it's unless you're born into a certain situation or you have those right connections and, you know, like your uncle's P. Diddy or something. That's probably not the best idea now. That's probably not the best one now. You can say, ah, sure. Right, there you go.

I don't even know. Questionable now. All this stuff is questionable now. Everything. Yeah, life's in question right now. Right. But if your dad's not ahead of some label, major label, like, it's not going to be as easy for you. But that's not to say you can't make it what you want to make.

make it because music for me is a passion it's not a career if it turns into career cool um but that's never been my first focus it's always been the message and and the therapy uh the therapy part of this for me it's therapeutic truthfully and people just happen to like it so you know so what's like the next five years look like for you what do you want to do next what do you want to accomplish you know i'm not a hundred percent i'm always i'm forever changing Like, I get bored very quick. But I really do like what I do as far as the peer advocacy, you know, in recovery. I feel it's necessary and needed.

And it gives me that purpose now that I didn't see I needed. I see that being something that I continue to go with. But, you know, this music is going to keep going. You never know. I don't know. Five years and a half, I got a house on the car. you know, more more, I just see a lot of good things coming, you know,

staying positive is everything. And as long as I continue on the path I'm on now and never divert to what it used to be, I think I'm going to be all right. Do you ever think back on your childhood and wish you took a different path? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely, but at the same time, it's not reality.

You can't harbor on that. Because if you keep harboring on childhood, man, how are you going to grow now and how are you going to stay focused on what's in front of you. The past is in the rear view. They call it a rear view for a reason. You know, like we're never supposed to look backwards. So, in that sense, like, who guess?

Yeah. You know, like, it is what it is. It's over with. It was a lesson, and you continue to go forward. I love that. Well, Ian, thank you for coming on the show today, man. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it was a pleasure to chat with you.

Absolutely, you too. Yeah, and we'll put your description to your music or social media in the bio for people to check into. Sounds great. And have a safe trip back to Long Island. Appreciate you, man. You too.