Locked In with Ian Bick - Inmate Reveals What Happened When A Chomo Was Put In His Cell | White George

Episode Date: April 21, 2024

White George recounts the gripping tale of how his involvement in gold heists led to a lengthy prison sentence, delving into the captivating stories that unfolded along the way. Try Magic Mind: https://www.magicmind.com/lockedin And get up to 56% off your subscription for the next 10 days with my code: LOCKEDIN Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with White George: https://www.tiktok.com/discover/white-george?lang=en Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - From Bodybuilder to Prison: White George's Story 00:05:22 - Walking Across America for Historically Black Colleges and Universities 00:10:22 - Addiction and Criminal Activities 00:15:26 - Support from Friends 00:20:20 - The Glasses Slap Incident 00:25:35 - Confrontation in jail 00:30:19 - The Stigma and Consequences for Chomos in Prison 00:35:08 - Creating Entrepreneurs from Ex-Cons 00:40:00 - The Difference in Prisons 00:44:53 - Letters and Scrabble Hustle 00:49:37 - Surviving in Prison 00:54:26 - Life in Prison and Repeat Offenses 00:59:24 - Recognizing Evil Individuals in Prison 01:04:03 - Facing the Judgment of Society 01:09:01 - Finding Opportunities in America 01:13:57 - Lessons from Going to Prison 01:19:01 - A Fun and Dynamic Episode Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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when you get four mobile lines from Spectrum. Visit Spectrum.com slash free-for-life to find out how. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Padiday presents in the red corner the undisputed, undefeated weed whacker guys. Champion of hurling grass and pollen everywhere. And in the blue corner, the challenger, extra strength, Hannity! Eye drops and work all day to prevent the release of histamines that cause itchy allergy eyes.

And the winner, by knockout, is Padaday. Padaday. Bring it on. I had a chomo in my cell. It seemed like an okay dude. And then one day, something was weird, so I kicked him out of the cell so I could read his motion discovery. I just got in his box and took it. What are you going to do?

I told the guard to get him out. I need some time alone. So I went through there and I'm reading him like, oh. And I started seeing pictures, the trash and filth at all the charges. And he came back in. I remember I just knocked that living crap. He didn't say anything to him. He just walked in a pal.

And he was crying. He didn't know what was going on. He tried to get something. I didn't like it. I just slapped him. Knocked him around for a while. And I told him pack his shit and get out. Welcome back to the Locked In with Ian Bick podcast.

On today's episode, I have fellow TikToker White George here to share how robberies landed him in prison for a lengthy stay. And of course, he's going to share all those juicy stories we all know and love about his time in prison. Thank you to everyone for all the love and support each and every episode. Remember to follow me on Instagram at Ian underscore Bick to stay up to date on any news and upcoming events related to the show. Remember to get your official locked-in merch at eanbick.com and use code locked in to get 20% off your order. And also, if you guys can hit that follow button, that subscribe button, that like button, if you're listening on YouTube, does us wonders to get in the show out to more people. Don't forget to leave us a review on Spotify or Apple. Now, without further ado, sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with White George.

GW. Mac Daddy. in the building. Dude, it's a pleasure to have you. Shout to Michael Springer for connecting us. Yeah, Springer's something else, man. Yeah, he's a good guy. He had me here for like three and a half hours. And when I was like, dude, we're out of memory.

He's like, but I'm not done. He can talk. No, no, he can talk. And I'm glad he was able to tell his story and it's out there now for the world to see. And it was really good. He's got an incredible story. And he's doing some really good stuff for the world.

He doesn't realize the power of his story. he's not comfortable telling it, you know, so he doesn't think people care. I watched the whole thing twice and like... Oh, you watched the whole thing? Oh, yeah. He did a great job. He told it like there wasn't, he didn't get lost. Like, he had it in a row.

And sometimes people, they come and they talk and they think that they miss stuff or they screwed up, but they did a good job. So it came out good. But I'm excited for your story, especially the prison aspect. You already give me some teasers in there. Oh. But tell the crowd where you came from. today and you drove here too.

Yeah, I grew up in a small town in Arkansas, like 5,000 people, no air conditioning to school my whole life, good friends, I mean, normal upbringing. Dad's a truck driver, Vietnam vet. Mom stayed at home. Yeah, that tumultuous childhood like everybody, but I knew right from wrong. Went to college, studying biology and chemistry. Thought I wanted to be a doctor or something. That was wrong.

Wait, you studied biology? Chemistry, yeah. So isn't that funny that there's actually someone with your name that is a biologist? And you went to study biology? I was a bodybuilder forever. So anatomy and physiology, kinesiology was always just my thing I was obsessed with. In high school, you were a bodybuilding? Yeah, in college, yeah.

Wow. That was 290 pounds yoked. You had a whole different life back then. Oh, yeah, I was athlete. Owned my own moving company, very successful, sold it, jumped into the mortgage business in Texas. Just, I don't know what I wanted to do. But everything I've done, I've done well, including crime. and yeah, just, you know, life goes on and I got this big scar on my arm.

I got an infection, and they gave me a bunch of hydrocodone. And that started a 10-year downward spiral. Just right from that cut. Yeah. What was it cut from? I got a splinter and tip of my finger, and then there's a bacteria that gave me cellulitis and almost lost my arm. They had to go in and move chunks of my arm out.

Because of a splinter. Splinter had bacteria on it. So you're telling me you never would have went to jail if it wasn't for that splinter? No, I never thought about it that way, but no. That's why I think of things, and that's crazy. It's a domino effect. It turns on that. You know, but looking back is that it took me out of my head.

I could cope better when I was on pills. And I got up to a 70, 75 hydrocodone on a day. That's a $10,000 month habit. You've got to feed it somewhere. And I was able to feed it for years. And then I couldn't. You know, the whole 2008 recession, everything fell. So I got the clever idea that I would take jewelry from people who didn't know I was taking it.

So you completed college? Okay. Oh, yeah. So you got through all of that. Got through alcohol. Yeah, I was a straight, straight-eyed-laced kid. I don't drink. I bounced in bars.

And then you had the bodybuilding. Yeah. I did that all through, into high school until I was 35. I think that was the biggest day ever got, like 315 with abs. Is there money in bodybuilding? No. So why do people do it? Ego, insecurity.

And the fact that I was really, really big and strong, power lifting and stuff. So I was usually stronger than everybody in the gym. Most places I went. And so that just, I love the war. against yourself. I love going in there and I'm competing against me. Does that make sense? Yeah. I put 500 on the pat squat bar and would I do 10 or 12 reps today or 15? What could I push? I just get off on that. You know, back then, though, there was no TikTok, no social media. It's a whole new world where you're able to monetize that. Like a guy like you, if you were big

like that and doing it now, you make some good coin. Yeah, you would. But, you know, I thought about as a birthday present to myself someday, getting ripped up again and see about the master, Sorry, not master's class over 50, but after this walk, I'm going to be pretty lean. That's a great weight loss program. Yeah, well, to tell people what you're doing the walk about, too. I'm going to walk across America from New York to California. It's about 3,000 miles. It takes six months, 20 miles a day, and I'm doing it in support of historically black colleges and universities and reading literacy.

Two things that I feel that people don't pay enough respect their attention to. Plus, I'll lose weight. I'll be skinny. I look like you when I'm done. So how does that exactly does that work though? The walk part are there rules to it? Are you allowed to stay in, do you stay in hotels? Some people camp.

I'm too old. And plus, if I try to take a crap in the woods, I'm crap all my ankles. I have a short leg so that ain't going to work. I will take my pickup literally and I'll move it 20 miles. I'll get an e-bike, chain it up. And after I get to my place, I'll get on it, ride back to my truck and just leapfrock. But I have some people want to come along and working on an RV and somebody to go along with me for film. and but all that will come as I start.

That's cool. You got to tell me when you're in a certain state. Maybe I come out there and say hello. That would be awesome. I'm starting. My whole premise is walk a mile in my shoes while I walk a mile in yours. Let's walk and talk. Tell me about what's going on.

Just a basic human level, you know, in prison, like you connect with some people you never would have. They want to be heard. I just thought it's a chance just to meet the most interesting people I can. Yeah, that's incredible. And it's that time alone to be introspective. And I have a lot of PTSD from prison and other things, and I think it's a good way to heal. So do you have it all mapped out, like which states you're going to and how that works?

Generally, but I know I'll have events to go too along the way, so I have to geotrack, mark my place, make sure I come back exactly to that place because I can't skip a step. I'm going to get all of it correctly. But it'll start in New York and just a straight line to California. And this is going to be like the weather matches up with everything. Yeah, you want to start on the east in the spring and head towards California in the fall before the winter hits because you've got to walk across the mountains. How long do you think it'll take? Six months.

Six months to do the whole thing. Yeah. Holy cow. I'm excited to hear about it. You got to check in. Oh, I will. I'm coming across New York, so you can come meet and walk a mile when I come through there. Okay.

And you're going to walk to New York City or just at this team? I don't know exactly what part yet. I thought about coming through New York City just for fun. Six months. Wow. That is so cool. Has anyone done this before? Yeah, there have been more people count.

There's been, sorry. Yeah, more people have climbed. Mount Everest in a year that a total have ever walked across America. Okay. Yeah, so, I mean, I know of two people that have done it recently. A lot of people do it like short sections north to south, but I'm going east to west. Incredible. It's how the idea came about, though.

You spent six months and the whole, right? Yeah. I spent about four weeks when you go to diagnostics because they just didn't have bed space and I started losing my mind. You know, I just started attaching reality and I started dreaming of things and I would imagine outside, smells, sights. And then I'd start walking the streets I knew and then I started making them up and houses and I made imaginary conversations with people. And this was a way that kind of saved my mentality, but when stuff got hard to imprison, I'd withdraw to that thought, not knowing

I'd ever do it. But it's just been on my mind for years. And then I met a pair of twins that were walking across. I just randomly met at Walmart. And two days later, I found a documentary about a guy who wheelchared across America. So then Gabriel Cordaris, Gabe, shout out to you. And I was like, I got to do this. I don't know why. I just have to. And that's all because of the splinter. Yeah.

Yeah, never thought about it that way. I always think of like cause and effect, you know, like what caused a certain thing. Like, we're here today because I randomly met Michael Springer in Arkansas because he happened to be my driver to the county jail. And he ended up having an incredible story. I went there to interview people, not knowing that he had an incredible story. And that's how he linked. And that's how he texted me.

and he's so polite he's like hey man can I give this guy your number I'm like Michael you give whoever man I don't care but it's funny before you all got there I reached out to him I said like my friend Danny's coming I don't know JD personally but I was like JD delay is coming I gotta connect you guys you guys yeah I'm JD out the funny as hell dude's got to you can hang a coat on his nipples yeah he really kid I'm like dude and he's gonna love the chelbo stories you do it hit it off are you gonna pass through.

Oregon? Yeah. No, no, no. I thought you're not going to do every state? No, I'm going to straight line, man. That's far enough. You don't pass Oregon to get out there? Oregon's up here.

I'm going, because New York... I'm not good with my geography. I'm going to like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, because I just moved out of Fort Wayne, so I want to walk back through and see all the people I know. And just I go like Kansas across the plains and I'll hit Colorado the bottom and then I'll get over to California across the Sierra Madre Mountains. Okay.

Interesting. The springer... He had the great guy. Really nice. Just, ah, man, anyone that hasn't seen it, they have to watch the Michael Springer episode. He'll get in your feelings about the military. Yeah, definitely. We talked about when we were locked up together.

And I knew it wouldn't full of shit, you know, the way he talked, I know enough veterans. And he didn't brag. You know, it was almost like low-key, just you could tell it to wait on him. And I understood why he did what he did, why he never wanted to be in his head because I knew that same feeling. I just picked a different drug. So when you got the splinter and you had the surgery, how old were you? It was 2001, so 23 years ago, 30, 2930? So the first 30 years of your life were not a complaint.

No drugs, nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Talk about a midlife crisis. I got hooked on them opiates and, you know, I just like the feeling because I didn't have to be me. So how much did you lose in between? Like you had a career, you had things going on. How quickly does that, like when addiction takes over, how quickly does it go from 100 to zero?

I managed it for a really long time. Nobody knew except the people I got the pills from. And like she told me, she could have bought a house or two with what I bought in pills from her for all those years because I had a consistent supply. But it was at the very end that last two years probably when the economy changed my job because I always made great money. It just went downhill. And I got desperate because I didn't detox and scared me. And I just had a broad idea one day. I saw a chance to slip in and get some jewelry somewhere and they never knew.

and gold was like an ultimate, when I got arrested the day before I got arrested, gold hit an all-time high. I knew gold. I could take a loop. When I'm looking at jewelry, I knew exactly what I could weigh it. I knew exactly how much I'm going to get for it.

My jeweler that I sold it to was impressed at how I knew gold now. There wasn't like precautions in place though when you sold that jewelry. Cash for jewelry? Nothing. So they're not checking it. No. So what place do you hit? Where do you see this jewelry?

Okay. Give us the whole rundown beginning. middle end. I'm convicted this. I never really talk about it. It's, I would look for houses for sale. Okay. And then I could take my iPad and look and I owned a moon company. So I knew house layouts really well. And I would look at my iPad and I could take a tour of the house. I could find the jewelry chest online. If they had one, if the house is vacant, I knew whether to hit it. And I would get their drop, their lot boxes. They hang on the door to get keys for realtors. I'd just get the box, get the key. I'd walk up in a shirt and tie and then pull up your

driveway in the middle of the day. Walk right in your house. And I never clean the door. people out because I had a morality issue with this. Don't laugh. I didn't want to anybody feel like they've been violated, you know, that was the thing I had. I quit talking to God. I mean, it's just, and because I wouldn't want anybody to do that to me, so I thought if, if I take pieces, they wouldn't notice, it may take them forever, if they don't know who to blame, maybe their husband or wife has an addiction or their kid, you know, so they wouldn't never suspect anything because I didn't know them. Unfortunately, that created victims. You know, I have victims in the world now because of it. Like, you know, you did. And that's the worst part,

but I'd go in, get just a few things. I was not greedy. Never greedy. That was the key. And I did it over and over. And, you know, we got addicted to the rush of it more than just be able to buy pills. Now, how much are you getting from a hall at one time? My best, I think, was a bag of gold teeth.

Teeth? Yeah. That someone just had random. Yeah, like it might be a... They do funerals, right? They get the cold fillings out. It was a bag. And I remember looking at it, I run the magnet over it, didn't react.

So I know it's gold. Got home tested it. It was 20, 22, and 24-carat gold. I think like 18 grand for four minutes of work. Holy cow. Yeah, that was. I can't imagine a big guy with you and the sin, in the suit, like the nice clothes walking in casually of this house. Clutman suburb in the middle of the driveway like I belong there.

And there was no close calls or anything? Oh, yeah. There was a, there was a couple. Give us a close call. Well, the one actually got arrested for. I have rules. I would never go into somebody's house under $100,000 because they worked really hard usually to afford that.

And I felt bad. I didn't usually go houses over 350, 300 to 350 because they're often self-employed or stay-at-home wife. So I had rules and I only went from like 10 to 2 and take an hour for lunch, just in case somebody comes home. Those are my hours.

But I have this plan and it just kept me safe, but I went to a neighborhood I knew better than to go to. I'd gotten a little desperate. And I remember knocking on the door over and over and over. I'd got in the key. And as I was about to put the key in the door, somebody opened it goes, can I help you? And I acted like I was there to meet the realtor

because that's what people assumed. Anyway, I tried to play it off. And about two weeks later, cops come with a warrant because they noticed the lot box was missing and then just everything on the room. Looking to see what's happening around your home? Rings battery doorbell helps you track packages and see who's at your door in real time.

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premium craftsmanship and tech that turns every drive into an adventure, or Jeep Rangler with legendary four-by-four capability and open-air freedom. Because freedom deserves the vehicle built to carry it. Jeep, there's only one. Hurry into your local dealer for the Jeep declaration of deals. Jeep has won more awards over its lifetime than any other SCB branch. Even the Jeep Grohl or registered trademarks of FCAUS LLC. Travelled from there. How did they tie it to you? I think my ex-girlfriend talked because she was kind of a part of it a little bit. She definitely knew she benefited. But they started looking. I mean, they ran, they tore my place apart,

running serial numbers and had nothing stolen, but I had lot boxes. You kept all the locksbox? I'd thrown him in the river. And I hadn't got a chance to throw them away. So they were like, what the hell? So, you know, I knew I was the jig was up. But they didn't give me my motion discovery until I took my time. So I didn't know what they had on me. Is that legal? No.

It's because you copped out to a plea deal? Yeah, but they still wouldn't give it to me until the day. I took my plea. Six months they had one couldn't get it. But if you had pressed to go to trial, though, they could, they would have had to give it. I would have got theft by receiving probably instead of residential burglary, in my opinion or an attorney's opinion. But it is what it is. It needed to happen.

How much money do you think you got overall from this? Mm-mm. You didn't get them. I'll never say. You'll never say. Well, I'm 18,000 on one hit. Don't. It's six figures. I will not say.

I'm still on parole. Nope. Holy cow. I mean, it was, you know, they knew. I mean, the cops, I fooled him for a while because they didn't know what was going on. But when they figured it out, then it started unraveling pretty quick. Like, it just, and I knew I was going to plead. I knew I wouldn't go to trial.

I was guilty as hell. The day they showed up at your house, was it like a whole big scene? Four officers, two from Little Rock. two in the town I lived in my door. And I didn't have a peephole. And I opened the door and they're like, you step outside. I'm like, crap. So I pulled the door behind me.

And they were going to get a warrant on. I'm like, well, come on in because I knew I didn't have anything. But then they had the lot boxes and they arrested me. And then they started dropping felony after felony, after felony, like pages of felonies. I think my bond was started a quarter million. And it went up, got reduced to a quarter million. And, you know, some other officers that came into to interrogate me, who I wouldn't talk to anybody, but they told me it's like, don't bond out.

If you do, they're just going to drop another charge on your. And they pull you. I've heard of that happening down in those areas. And then they raise it and you lose that initial money. Yep. And there was a U.S. Marshal I went to high school with. They'd had this huge drug bus called Operation Delta Blues.

Cops were helping guys run cocaine and all this stuff across town. Like, it was all over the state. Brought in 70-something guys. It was a big Fed operation. And I saw her and was talking to her. She's like, don't bond out. Because I was all over the news. hell I was on the news when they sentenced me.

Isn't that crazy that they could do that? I mean, what are you going to do? It's just not, I mean, it's just fucked, and they have the authority, and you can't fight back, and you can't do anything. I waited out and made peace with it because of what I did to people. Like, I kind of had this coming, so if I get screwed, it's just, it's part of the game, chalk it up. So you never, when you got locked up, you never got back out, like on a bond or a bail, you just, you just sat there. County jail for 370-something days I sat for. So that's your first.

time ever in prison. I've got arrested for crap and bonded right out on just petty stuff years ago. But yeah, that was my first time to being taken to the back in jail and deloused and yeah, the works. What was that like for you mentally? 39 years old. I was, I don't know if I was frightened. I just was so scared of the uncertainty.

And I remember this little guard, this little black man looked at me, grabbed my arm, he said, hey, big man, this two shall pass. And I remember looking at him like, I felt peace at that moment because he could see my anxiety. I didn't know. I mean, I'm too old for games. I'm a big boy. You know, I'm not into going to fight people because I'm going to try to hurt you. I just want to avoid all that.

And I had to figure out who to become in prison. You know, like, you can't be a hard ass. I mean, you're just asking for trouble. So I kind of went being an OG, an old-timer at 39, you know, and just kind of, I'm well-read. I speak well. So people gravitated me for legal advice. And it just, I don't know, I just, I had a different experience a lot because I went in so much older like that. Did you have support from your family?

No, God, no. I haven't talked to my mom 13 years. 13 years? Yeah, they disown me. Because of this case. Yeah, that and a few other things that she was unhappy about with me. But yeah, this was the, my dad died two months before I got arrested. And so he never knew.

He would have visited me. He would have loved to see the inside of the prisons he's always told me about. I'm not visiting you. I want to see the prison. But he would sit there and go, what they do, what they do? That would be my dad. But I never got to grieve his passing either. Because, you know, you're numb for a while.

They get locked up and you don't show emotion in there. So that was hard. That was really probably the most challenging thing. Plus, I drug my dad's name through the mud because we had the same name. I'm a junior. And that killed me. I wish it was a marine biologist, but it's not.

You can rock with it, get the photos changed or something. But, you know, I've been there just a little while, and some friends of mine came, put like 135 bucks on my books in county, which you know is because you're starving, right? And then my best friend, who I hadn't talked to yet, didn't even know if he knew $300 a month started coming every month.

USA Today, local newspapers. He has some friends, what do I send them? And he just hooked me up and that made, that changed everything for me. Oh, he took Harry. The whole time in. Both times I was in. Wow. That's incredible.

Shout out to you, Dave. Yeah, we've been best friends since we were five. That's a good guy right there because you would see a lot of your guys in prison that wouldn't really have anyone because they're the provider of their family. Their family loses everything from whatever that put them in jail and they don't have anyone. They have to work and stuff. I saw that. I mean, I had a lot of people write me letters because I just thought

everybody hated me. I didn't know what people's perception. I wasn't. That's your rigged out. That's incredible. That's the guy I want you to get on there, Loki. What is this name? Loki, hold on. Can I answer this? Yeah, just answer the phone. Hey, Loki. Can you hear me? Can you hear me?

I hear it. All right. Hey, I'm on the podcast with Ian right now. Yeah, just to do it to you I'll call you back buddy Bye That ringtone is amazing Monomana Holy cow I didn't even know they still make the

The custom ringtones now it is I had to fight it years ago It's on my background of Facebook The animals from the Muppets I love monomano Dude I love your energy I guess it keeps you young right Yeah I'm 52

Something's got two Yeah it keeps you young You've been through the ring Or you know you learn to have a different zest. I feel like I have the philosophy of a 12-year-old boy. Everything's just wide open and new. And you spend a year in county, you don't see grass hardly.

You don't see sun, you know. So those are sunset, sunrises. I stop every time I see one and just remember to appreciate it. When you're in the county, did you think that this is what prison's going to be like? Because that's what my experience was going to a holdover because I had no idea. I have nothing to compare it to. Okay, I was going to ask you this too. You know now there's no way we could describe prison to a free world person.

There's no way that you can have context or understand until you've been there, correct? Yeah. And I had friends trying to help me understand what I was about to face. And my mind still couldn't wrap around it, but it helped. But they kept telling me prison was better than county. And so I'm like, God, I hope so because county was horrific for a year. Okay, I won't tell you, when I first got there, you love this. I just got my first commissary.

I got a bag of coffee. And this old timer, he's been done 19 calendars, got out, already back in jail six months later, six foot six, 130 pound black guy. Asked me for a shot of coffee. We called him slim. So I gave him a spoon of coffee. He's like, that's it?

Get the fuck out of my cell. He hauled off and bitch slap me. And I'm like, and I remember going, did he just, pow, here comes a second slap. And he knocked my glasses off my face. And I remember I put all 320 pounds to try to punch him in the chest, to crack his chest plate. and I hit him in the solar plexus.

He just folded up. Went back out over a table. The Goon Squad came because he cut my nose with my glasses. The press charges. Like, no, I just don't want to see him again. And I didn't. But yeah, I got bitch slapped twice. Holy fuck.

A week into county, you know? And I'm just like, did he really just, is he that crazy? He bitch slapped you twice. Because I couldn't even react. I'm like, did he? Pow. My cellie looked at me. He was like, you just got bitch slapped twice.

So, yeah. I didn't catch a lot of grief over it. When you look back on it now, do you realize that if you realize that if you didn't hit him back, it would have been a lot harder for you in there? I'd probably had to fight a few more times, yeah. Yeah, but once you hit him back, no, I'm sure messed with you. No, no, no. That, and I also learned, like,

working out. You know, we'd hustle and wrestle and wrestle and stuff, and we had a guard who would give us 60 seconds to catch the corner to duke it out and if we don't eat pepper sprays, because he loved pepper spray people. But he liked watching the fights, right? Murphy, he was actually a cool dude. And so we'd work our problems out out there, but we'd roughhouse and

I played football. I mean, you know, and people started to realize that I'm physically stronger than just about everybody in my block. So I knew to play games to show without having to fight. Arm wrestle, things like that. I played a game where if you put your hands in mind, both your hands, I could take one hand and put you on the ground

because I could squeeze and just crush your hands and people. Things like that kept me out of trouble. You know, it's so funny that we both got the glasses slapped off our face. It's a great story. Holy cow. That story is, oh, man. I think that's going to go fucking wild.

Oh, I got to have, you got to try one of these, the magic mind energy shots that I gave you. This is your first time I ever trying this, right? I haven't had an energy drink, probably 10 years of any kind, so is this going to really check me up? Yeah, no, these things are great. So I stopped drinking regular energy drinks, and now I switched to coffee and I switched to magic mind. And doesn't leave you with a hangover. It doesn't leave you with, like, a crash. Like, when I was drinking energy drinks, I would drink it a few hours later.

You're crashed out. Now I'll do like my coffee in the morning, do one of these during the day. I'm fine, like no headaches, nothing, like it's great. They're served best cold. You keep it in the refrigerator. I just buy these like once a month, and it actually enhances your productivity, too. Like focus? Yeah, I mean, we're going to see, you're going to see firsthand.

I'll ask you again at the end of the episode. Bottoms up. Yeah, bottoms up, you shoot this thing down. And it tastes good, too. Yeah, that's actually not bad. That's not bad at all. It's the best cold. You have to drink a cold.

I'm seeing these pop up in a lot of gas stations. But yeah, I mean, you got to use Magic Mind. It's really good. And they actually, they hook me up with like this promo code, which is really cool for like listeners and stuff that I'm going to plug in the description. But yeah, that says on the bottle, boost energy and focus, crush procrastination for those procrastinators out there and elevate mental clarity. So let's see how clear your mind gets by the end of this. I talk fast. Let's see if it speeds up.

Awesome. Yeah. Shout out for Magic Mind for Hooking. That was up for us. Thank you, Magic, Mila. See if that works. Because at least as much as I drive and travel, I will tell you, I had a chomo in my cell. That's Richard Martinez.

I'm throwing him under the bus because I can't stay in the dude. This is in county jail. This is in county jail. He was actually in Indiana. I guess he had moved away to Indiana, but his girlfriend had some young kids. She worked at Walmart. He was giving him Benadryl to knock him out. And then he was taking pictures and molesting him.

Well, one of the girls, I guess, found out that he was doing it and told her mom. Mom didn't know what to do. total Walmart clerk, you know, manager there. They called the police. He had ran to Indiana. Brought him down here. You know, it seemed to, I didn't know all this at first, right? He seemed like an okay dude.

And then one day, something was weird, so I kicked him out of the cell so I could read his motion discovery. I just got in his box and took it. What are you going to do? I told the guard to get him out. I need some time alone. So I went through there and I'm reading. I'm like, oh, and I started seeing pictures, the trash and filth at all the charges.

And he came back in. I remember I just knocked the living crap. Didn't say anything to him. He just walked in a pal. and he was crying. He didn't know what was going on. He tried to get, he said something. I didn't like it.

I just slapped him. Knocked him around for a while, and I told him pack of shit and get out. And he came out. I mean, he was kind of puffed up a little bit. And the guard asked me, and I said, you know, he's here for molesting children. He just gave me a fist bump.

So I got, I was blown for a week. That was wonderful. Didn't go the hole. Then he went down to another cell. And I told that guy, as a big black guy, he know what he's in for. He tore that dude up,

tore him up, and then came out and stood on the chairs and was telling everybody what he did, put him on blast. This guy wouldn't roll out of the barracks. Would not, he would just sit by himself and TV. Nobody talked to him. So we kept telling him, we're going to hurt him. If you get found guilty, we're going to hurt you because you don't go to prison right away, right? He kept saying, no, no, the trial got put off them one morning. He's in that little holding room. He's about to go to prison. So we all knew them, but we couldn't get a hold of them. But friends did eventually. Well, that's such an interesting dynamic that it was in the county

because a lot of times people don't know their paperwork or anything, which is why he would have his paperwork to begin with because he's fighting his case. And you guys are kind of in the, in the mindset of, is he guilty of it? Is he not guilty of it? Because you probably would have felt bad if he was found not guilty, right? No. No. No, I just, you knew when you read it and you met him, you know child molesters.

And there was no chance of being found. No, no, no. He was too wormy, too storied that up. And when I read, it was so horrendous. It just, there's no way it wasn't. And then I never felt bad. I mean, why do you think the prison system's putting, though, him and yourself.

Nowhere else to put him in county. Really? I mean, they just, they came in. I mean, they had some kid that was coming out of the hole. He's 18 and they wanted to be scared. They wouldn't be naked peeing in the toilet when he came in. Like, blah, about, you know, I'm going to, you know, just, I don't know. I was like, I'm not getting naked, but I'll scare the kid a little bit.

An annoying little shit. You know, they stuck me with all the chomos. Yeah, that's what I did. Yeah. Every single, if there was, I don't, I don't think I ever had a sell me in the shoe or the hole that wasn't a chomo. Isn't that crazy? and I can't do anything about it.

And in the hole, you don't get paperwork on anyone. I would find out after the fact. You know, we got paper? We didn't get it in county. You had to get their motion discovery. But in prison, we put in a mail call for their time sheet that has their charges. And as soon as the serge comes in and how mails, somebody's staying right behind the serge. He'd go, Smith, and he go right here, just pick it out of his hand.

And then he put him on blast right then. Smith's in there for two counts of rape, a minor, blah, blah, blah. Just straight up, that guy's going to pack his stuff. I heard it in, like, federal prisons now they're not even letting people. have the paperwork or letting people know what they're in for or anything like that. You got to call on the outside there, don't you? Yeah, well, with cell phones and everything. It's so easy to, which is, looking back on it, it's crazy that I had a hard time.

Because knowing how many cell phones are in that prison now, like, come on, you couldn't even fucking Google it. It was a public case. And these people are trying to extort me and thinking I'm at Chobo. Like, that's just fucked up, you know? That's a rough ride of you. I know. They didn't be dirty, man. I've watched, you know, I've watched when you're talking about it.

I just can't fathom. You know, I got to Cummins Prison. That's the granddaddy. I lived about 30 yards from the execution chamber. So every day we went to the child. Oh, yeah, it's just death chamber, D.C. on the door. Holy shit. And Springer, every time we go to Chowell, we're walking right by the room where they execute people.

And there's a problem. 2,000 men there, and there's hundreds of chomos. So the thing is, they stick together. You can't whoop all of them. I mean, they'll shut the prison down. But I saw some shady stuff going to. One guy caught with over 400 pictures of children, not naked, like family pictures and all this, and where he got him, cut him out of magazines.

They arrested him for it, took him disciplinary court, judge found him not guilty because she doesn't know that he was using those pictures for masturbatory purposes. The sergeants were pissed off. We were pissed off. I mean, he had to change barracks. I mean, we got him out quick, but they're protected. Yeah. Yeah. Because they put pre-prison rape elimination act.

If you heard a Chomo and they can prove your intent, because of the charge, you can get a federal hate crime. Yeah, JD DeLay was put out some content on this recently about saying how crazy the statistics are that you could do a variety of things in prison. But if you heard a Chomo, they're a protected class of individuals. But other things can happen. Extortion's fine. All of these things are fine. But you hurt one of them or anything.

It's a whole federal charge. It's crazy. You found other ways to torture. I mean, you cut them off. I mean, you don't let them have good jobs. They all worked in the garment. factory because we made clothes and all that. So if you got assigned to the garment factory and you weren't a chomo, you were in hell.

That was like, it was an easy job, but that's the worst place to be. All right. So here's an interesting question for you, right? As someone that was like heavily involved with like, you know, being a part of that. And like, you beat up a choma before and you're open about that. How do you feel for the parents? Of the kid? No, the parents of the, of the, the chomo.

Because I do, I ask this because I do have some parents that listen that have reached out because they want me to have a perspective. of a chomo on the show and this and that. I don't know. I kind of feel for the parents, not because of their kid, but just because of what the kid... The stigma.

Yeah, the stigma and also that they have to deal with that. Like they didn't approve of that. They just got stuck with it, you know? Deal by association. Yeah. You know, I believe they're hardwired sexually that way. I just honestly believe they come out of the wound. That's what they like.

But the fact they act on it, that's where I'll draw the line. And now, I mean, I've known parents who dads who said they pay. put their own kid in the ground over that. Really? No dads who, I mean,

I've read about dads who shot their own kid. You know, if you heard other kids, I don't want my kid doing that. I'd turn them in. You can't fix them. There's a guy named John Adams.

Again, I'm putting him out there because I can't stand him. And I remember I was in prison and I hadn't been there that long and I already knew what his charges was. He had touched a boy, sexually molested him.

So how many others did he touched, right? And he had done, he had a five-year sentence, but he couldn't find a halfway house. He had no family to parole out to. So he didn't. most of his bid, went home, and while I'm in prison, he, I remember he came by my cell door

and said, hey, I'm leaving. I slapped him because he put his head in my cell and I just, you know, go home. And that's the ending I left. It wasn't. Own it all. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly Big Board Bucks slot machine by Aristocrat Gaming, Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is giving one person a $1.6 million dream package. The biggest prize in Yamava's history. Club Serrano members can earn daily instant prizes and secure a spot in the finale May 29. Don't pass go and own it all.

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Wow. Yeah, somebody else got him. What was your nickname? What did they call you? My last name, Sedbury. Sadbury? Yeah, that's all they. You didn't have a cool nickname?

I never had a cool one. Couldn't be MacDady in prison. That would work. Why? No one would have fucked with you. I don't know. Nobody just ever, uh, call me one just by my name. Can you tell the audience about the phone call with Mac Daddy thing?

I looked at you, plug your TikTok by the way, too, how this came about. All right. I went by TikTok, I created MacDaddy Life, which, by the way, I started doing physics video, science videos on TikTok. I was taking Coke bottles and beating them disappear. It went viral. And I told one story one time about the guy that came up with Jet and Ebony magazine.

That went viral and that's how I kept going. But I've always joked Mac Daddy. That's my name forever. It's on my caller ID on my phone to AT&T. Amazon, everything. I get mailed a Mac Daddy. Tell the, what was the dentist or the doctor story? Oh yeah.

When I go to the doctor, right, I'll call in to make an appointment. And they're like, Mr. Daddy? Because I'll say either Daddy comma Mac and this is Daddy. Yes, sir. How can I help you, ma'am? And you go in the doctor and they're like, oh, my God, you're Mac Daddy. It'll be years to figure this out. You look like a Mac Daddy.

You know what I can see you driving? What? There's movies where there's always like the actor, the big jack guy that has a monster truck and it says something outrageous and he's dressed at like a purple jumpsuit or something. You got, if I ever make it big, I've buying you a monster truck and it's going to say Mac Daddy. And a purple sequin jumpsuit. Exactly. Oh, man.

People in TikTok, I'll meet him in person. You, hey, Mac Daddy. You got the, that's why, you know, it works for JD. You have the look. You have the look. You know, that's why you've gained. following its looks and personality. That's what I attribute my success to on social media.

I have this look about me and I have this personality. You're non-threatening. I'm not threatening, but I went to prison. So it's just like, he went to prison and then you throw in the McLevin stuff and this. I don't know, it's great. And like this dynamic, it's cool, you know? It's just, it's fun. You know what?

Because we're ex-cons, though, we're making something of ourselves different because I honestly believe ex-cons are created for a permanent blue-collar class. Like, most of us will never rise above that, just low-paying jobs. You know, we're stuck. And that's what, 3 million people that are ex-cons in this country, that's a heck of a workforce. And it's very hard, as you know, to break past that. So, yeah, I think that, like I said, you're not threatening, but the juxtaposed

against what you did. Your crime was very intelligent. You're very aggressive. You know, I can't believe you wouldn't gamble to pay off your debts. I had to do what I had to do, man. That's my mentality. And when and that's put into a, like when I'm not under pressure and like all my decisions were made because I was under pressure.

And I always thought like this person need to get this money on this day. But there's always a next day. So had I just waited and figured out another alternative and knew it wasn't going to be the end of the world and I didn't need to move mountains, everything would have been fine. Because now, and it's just so much different now. Like I'm hustling on my own. I'm doing it in a healthy way though. Like I'm still the same person in that regard that I was back then 13 years.

ago, but I got this, like I got that hustler ambition personality, but now it's driven to something different, you know, like I'm editing videos, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. That's the grind. I think you were to, I think you were going to succeed no matter what you did, though. To be honest, with whatever you picked, I think you have that hardwired in your brain. You're going to find a way to succeed. You just pick the wrong area. I mean, you did, but I don't think you understand the mechanics of it well enough. Now you have a much better idea. I think you're going to be successful, whatever you try. Thank you. And you know what's funny on that topic, as you said, you watch the HBO documentary.

And recently I've been connecting with one of the producers from the HBO doc and who's done stuff for Netflix, big shows, and he just moved the town over. And he came, we connected, and we've been hanging out here at the studio. I've been showing him stuff. And he's like, because he was the initial person that interviewed me for HBO to get my story in. And he's just like so amazed at what's been able to been created from going to prison. And I was on a call today with these individuals that are doing like this reentry

Fair. And they're like, oh, what hiring people should we have? Like, what jobs that hire felons, this, this, and that? And I'm like, well, let's move past that mindset and think we should be creating entrepreneurs out of these individuals. Let's move past that mindset of they got to work like you were saying of those specific jobs. Let's bring it to the next level. Let's make a 3 million content creators. Let's push out these, you know, influencers with the tits and the ass and this and that, you know, and then let's bring some entertainment. value to it. Get rid of the lip sinkers. Yeah, let's do something fun, you know? Excon mafia. That's our collective ex-com mafia, right? They can't come after all of us. Allegedly. Word on the street.

Yeah, but I think that's the way the world needs to go to. Take the power away from the people that say you can't be anything after you go to prison. Why aren't there no ex-cons that ever sit in consultation or on the Bureau of Prisons? Now, think about it. And they're going to say, well, because you're an ex-com, but none of these old white dudes and women have any idea what it's like to be inside that gate. How can they possibly I'm going to give you a good one You ready

His name is Gregory Hall I was locked up with him He spent three years in the hole Because he would not cut his hair or his beard He's a white guy and he's Muslim Refused They humiliated They did everything they could

To try to break him And he went to the He appealed this one To the federal courts Appellate courts Took a handwritten motion To the Supreme Court They accepted it

They get a 3,000 every year And they only accept about 80 or 100 They took his first time A handwritten on legal yellow of paper it was accepted with a flex pan. Like, this is a big deal. He got a nine to zero decision against the state of Arkansas to let us grow our hair out and our beards past a half an inch or have beards at all because of religious faith.

Got the entire United States Supreme Court shut the state of Arkansas down. They weren't happy about it either. Not happy. Now, they had beers, but they made it hard on us. But I was locked up with him. And he had about $4,000 in copier fees so he could never have money on his books. But his lawyer said in magazines, and that was his currency. But he's probably one of the most intelligent.

people I've ever met. We talked about Christianity versus Muslim faith because he led all the Muslims in prison as a white guy. Like if you weren't praying five times a day, he was on you. You know, and dude's a super cool dude. Very non, just very, I don't know, I'll never forget the guy. And I'm sitting there looking at the transcript from the United States Supreme Court and just reading, you know, his signed version with all the original signatures like, you'll never see this. And so, you know, he probably taught me more about sticking up for what you believe in, you know, and he grew up, He lived in Pakistan for six years. Like, this is the most random person ever. But they gave him life plus 40 for attempted murder because he kept suing the county jail when he was in there and went in. So he threw the book out of me. He said he messed up. He shouldn't sue the county. Holy shit.

I've heard stories like that before. He went to trial. Yeah, life plus 40. Did you see the 60 minutes, Doc, about the federal prison? It just came out. The clips are circulating on TikTok. But, you know, to counter what you were saying about, they're not letting inmates sit. Like, states allow a lot of former incarcerated and,

the prisons and whatnot. The feds don't really do that. You can't go back into speak or anything. You might be able to, but they're not like pushing it. Is it like state prisons you see like jelly roll, for example, speaking? It's going viral. You don't see that in the federal prisons. I'm surprised they don't.

The feds, I think, would be more lenient about that because they're more progressive, in my opinion, than state. But I feel like states are trying to do more to battle incarceration and an addiction than the feds are. Yeah. Think about it. They let fentanyl come in all the time. They're worried about TikTok, possibly stealing our data. Because you're on TikTok, and it kind of is annoying, right? You know, Facebook's been fined almost $10 billion worldwide.

They've been fined $25 million for election tampering in Washington State, and that's the largest fine ever for that. Good luck for them on Facebook, by the way. It's all public record. They donate tens of millions in every political cycle. TikTok takes 90 minutes of eyeballs away from mainstream media, Facebook, and Instagram. So think about it. They want them gone.

TikTok hadn't really done anything. It's just as supposed, but it's okay for China to sit in the phone. Well, that's what I love about that senator that's like getting canceled on TikTok. Did you see that? Which one? Some senator in some state, it was like exposed that he took money, I think, from donors or whatever to vote for the bill. And everyone on TikTok's just lighting him up. He lost like a few hundred thousand followers.

He didn't Tom Cotton, is it? No, it wasn't Tom Cotton. It was this other guy. I think Kennedy was his life. I don't know who it is, but I've been seeing it on TikTok. It's just crazy. But serves them right. You know, how are you going to vote to ban TikTok?

When half the country's using it? Yeah, and it's doing so well for the economy. And I think it's so hypocritical that you have Biden on it, using it to campaign out. He said it'll side of bill to take it down. Why can they send us random text messages from politicians? They can spam us legally from politicians, but we can't, you know, like, Yeah.

It's not a fight I can win. I can bitch about it, but it just, yeah, it irritates me. What are you going to do, right? I had an idea, though, to get into prison. It's something I want to do called convicted cuisine. A pair of handcuffs open and make two Cs, right? Yeah. You have like, I don't know, Chevy Chase come into the prison to judge four model inmate spreads.

Give them all 30 bucks on commissary, and they all make their best spread and have somebody in there to actually judge it. Tell the backstory of each inmates so the viewer can kind of get attached to a story, root for somebody. I don't know, give them 150 on their books, $200 for first place, but it's a positive thing to do, showing prison in a different way. I just don't know how I'd pull it off. Did you see that commissary cookoff thing we used to do?

Yeah, I've been saying this for years. I just want to say that I did not get it from that. No, no, that's totally fine because I'm not, that's not my passion. You know, the videos are up there. It's fun. We had talked to some big producers about getting that, you know, something,

and people are like, well, it'll be too complicated to get into prisons and have that and the liability. But I was like, this doesn't have anything to do with going into the prisons. But we actually, with Michael Springer, filmed inside the Lowenow County Jail, the cooking stuff. Were they in pink jumpsuits in Lone Oak when you were there?

I don't know if it was pink. Maybe the girl, I forgot. Lonek was notorious for pink forever. Maybe it's pink, I don't know. Were you in Lownoke? Never there. It's tough over there. But the sheriff's a great guy.

Sheriff's Staley. You know, he's been to prison. Sheriff Staley's been a... Look at him, pretty sure Staley's the one. Yeah, I think he got it reversed. Mark Hampton's attorney. I used to work out with Mark years ago. But yeah, he got it.

He had his wife, I guess it got overturned. Yeah, it was Sheriff pretty sure it was Jay Staley. If not, I apologize, Sheriff Staley. But, yeah, that's the one I thought. He's a good guy, though. They got a good thing going on over there. I'm glad. So how much time do you end up getting?

And you got sentenced in-13 years. 13 years in prison. In county jail, you got that sentence. Yeah, it was in six months when I got my time. And I should have been out in about two months. They lost my paperwork. And I had to call my attorney after three. months, it took another three. So I sat there for that whole year. And then they split my time front and

back. So I didn't get full credit for sitting there. So they send you to this, is it called a maximum security prison? I went to Diagnostics first, which is a medium max. And then I went to Newport, which is a medium max. That's where I did it. Then I went to work release my first time around. And that was a godson. Work release, gave me some money to get out. I got to work out in the world. That was a very positive program, but it's hard to get into. And how long did it take you to get into that program? Several months. As soon as I got there after I got my 60 days in of a host squad, then I immediately applied for it in probably three, four months. But this is bad. I wrote a letter to the guy that's over programs because they have a six-month and nine-month snitch camp program.

You have to snitch to graduate. If you fart, induce, you've got to report somebody. You have to write somebody up twice a week. And you have standing for the group family. I apologize for my infraction. And I didn't want to go to this because I couldn't go to work release. So I wrote the most heartfelt letter I can that at 40, you know, I'm going to be just screwed if I do this. I need to earn a living. And he acquiesceded gave me a six-week in-program substance abuse thing. But when people found out that I got that overturned because I was high risk for it, everybody started asking me to write letters.

I didn't get a single other person overturned. But one dude that gave me so many problems working in laundry with me. He asked me to because he couldn't read or write. And I hated him so bad that I wrote the nastiest letter to this executive I could, calling him everything under the sun. I said, John, you want to read it? No, no, it's good. it went a week later that dude was gone.

Holy shit. You don't feel bad about doing that? Mm-mm. Was he a piece of shit? No. Okay. The coolest guard I had was Shinnika Nickelberry. Shout out to you.

I love her. She follows me on media. What's her name, Nickleberry? Shanika, Nickleberry. She's beautiful, like black and Cherokee Indian, real tall. And I did laundry. She was my boss. And we would talk.

She treated me like a human, you know. And this other guy was constantly trying to get me in trouble. If I were at nights, he thought I had it too easy. So I swapped todays. They found out nights as harder. It just never ended. He's an old crack head. He's not all there.

And I got tired of it. I got tired of the bullshit. So I just, yeah, I wrote a letter for him. He paid me $10. Was that like a hustle that you were doing all these letters for people? Most time I did it for free, especially if guys couldn't read or write. I did legal work to help them or figure stuff out. My hustle was Scrabble.

Scrabble? Yeah, I ran a store, but Scrabble. Tell us about the Scrabble hustle. I think I paid $10 to get a scribble game out of the gym to keep in my box. And every day I would set up from three to seven at a table. It would take on all comers a dollar a play and lose. You would lose? No, no, I didn't lose, no.

That guys had the whole entire Scrabble Dixir and memorized, but couldn't play defense. You know, I'd get cocky sometimes and almost get beat, but I just played it every day. What do you mean a dollar of play? It cost you a dollar to play me. The whole match. It's a bet, yeah. And so what happens if they get the dollar if you lose? Yeah, I'm never got a dollar.

But a Scrabble game could go on for hours. You're not making much money. No, but it's fun. I might play five or six dollars a day. Okay. And it's just for fun. I mean, I had money on my books. I did a store.

I didn't eat sweets in prison hardly. I think I had 92 Icy whites when I left. What's an icy white? Honey bun. You had 92. Yeah, I had rented other box space out. And yeah, I fed people. But I was just my hustle.

I'm a business guy. And in county, I did the same thing. And I usually pay. I never really had anybody not paying except once in county. He ran up a debt on me. Go get my money. He went it again. So, you know, now it's three for one instead of two for one.

Because he went past the week. and he got his money slip. So I'm like, okay, we're cool. Here's my list of what I want. Store came. He caught out. He caught out and said he was feeling threatened, so they rolled him out to different barracks.

And I told the serge, I was like, this ain't cool, man, at all. He goes, what do you want to do? I need my money or a piece of his ass. And he goes, you got anybody? And I asked what block he was in, and I knew a guy there. And I said, yeah, tell him I need a favor.

Yeah, he got his pound of flesh. Wait, the guards were just fine with it? This dude was cool. I've broke up fights. I've, you know, help de-escalate some situations. So I had, I guess, a different level of respect. And this guy was a bodybuilder, too. So we talked the same language, and he was cool.

So are you, like, running with a group of people, a group of individuals? Yeah, I mean, I have a core group of friends. And the longer you were there, it's not a shot collar like JD was, but it's by seniority. You would move up in the tables where you sat, to you got to the main spot. And because, you know, I'd sell a cigarette for four cookies. I'd buy a roll a thing, have my celly roll, ten cigarettes. for him. The rest, I'd just sell. And so four cookies for a cigarette, sometimes I have 30 or 40 cookies on my tray. They would just come pay their debt to me at the table. And I'd tell my buddies in my car right there, eat up.

And I'm like, well, dude, let me get some. Nope. It's business. There's their friends. That's why they're getting to eat all the cookies. So what do you think is like the psychology behind how you're able to maneuver? Because a lot of people go to prison and can't reach that level of hierarchy. What do you think it is for you besides the looks? Because that's obviously a part of it. experience, just life experience. I had my own business, you know, educated and I looked at prison as a game or jail as a game, you know, a dangerous game, but I knew how I figured out how to navigate without rip calls and ripple effect. And I was a nice guy. I tried to be pleasant. I mean, if you needed something, I could help you, I would let you try to take advantage. I mean, I'd just shut you down or cut you off. And I don't know, you just, people start to build a respect

and they would come to me for, I'd say it felt like a counselor. You know, like they got problems or could you help me read my motion discovery type thing? I don't know. I just found that was my natural groove. So what terminology would you use? And JD doesn't even like the word shot caller. We just all label him that. And he would never call himself a shot caller.

But if you were running the prison, though. No, no, no, no. Don't mistake that. Just in jail. It was my barracks. I was in there that same barracks for nine months. So you were running the barracks? People come in, but yeah, things would kind of go through me.

You know what I mean? Like, everybody has their own thing. but ultimately if there's stuff jumping off, I could kind of quiet it down where, you know, I don't make any assumptions that I was somebody. I wasn't. It's just the way I moved.

Yeah. I think I are in people's respect, both the guards and inmates, and that allowed me to get by easier. I think people are just fascinated with the survival aspect, how some people are able to do that and others, the majority are not,

and how someone escalates to that because you're a new guy on the block. So was it just luck and timing that you were able to kind of slide in? I stumbled around a little bit to kind of figure out my way. I had to learn the rules. You know, I had to learn take my leg out of my pants when I'm taking a dump. Wait, what do you mean leg out of the pants?

Don't never have both your feet in your pants. Why is that? I've never heard of this before. You ever got jumped on the toilet and you can't run or get up and fight? Because your feet, your pants are down. So you had to have one leg out. To this day, I don't take a shit with both feet in my pants. Holy cow.

I never thought of that. Yeah, because in open barracks, man, there's four, you got four guys sitting there. It's somebody run up and clock you. Okay. So you go to the mall, you have shoes on. you're taking off your shoes? I'm taking one shoe in my pants. No, are you actually?

Yeah, I still do. I don't sit to pee. I know that. That's common. Everyone says, like, that's sitting to pee. That's what I learned in prison. My cellmate made me sit to pee or kneel. I was just like, fuck it at this point.

I'll just sit. I'm not fucking kneeling. I never had to do that. That was never an issue. Because you were the boss of your own cell. I had some pretty heavy, you know, in prison, I had some pretty heavy weight guy, you know, cellies that, but that wasn't a thing.

We always wiped. We just, it's just what we did. But I never had. I had to sit, but yeah, I'd pull one foot out. I still take three and four minute showers. I can take a shower so fast because of prison. Yeah, that water, the push ones, I was always so mad when I'd end up in a prison with the fucking push buttons. Those things are the worst.

And then when I finally found a real faucet at like some of the older prisons, those are great, nice hot shower. But the push ones, that water is never getting hot. Well, I get to work where at least that shower curtains, individual showers. And I was in heaven. Like, wow, you know, that was. But it's, I had open showers I just did not like. I mean, that was, I wouldn't ever scared. It's just an uncomfortable feeling.

I would never do an open shower. I would just wait till everyone's done. And then I would go before they called count time or before they lock you in at the detention centers. If we're locked in at nine, I'd go 855 shower by myself in my boxers. No fucking way is Bubba coming up to me. You drop that soap, boy. You know, it's funny I never had that. The only time I've ever been hit on my dude was a cut.

my hair and I won't let a guy cut my hair anymore. You got hit on by a dude in prison? I'm trying to rub up against me. And what do you do? Elbowed him in the nuts. So how does this go down? I got kind of a screwy haircut though. He's cut in your hair.

Yeah, he's cut my hair and you feel him trying to rub up on you. And I'm like, you know, what dude, a couple of times I was trying to get through the haircut and ended up, he turned around, I just popped him right there. And he was, you know, been over. And I'm like, I don't know what happened. And I have gripped the clippers and just finish shaving it just to get done with it. But I would not let that dude touch me. and yeah, that was not cool to me.

I still can't believe they didn't give you a nickname. If they did, I didn't know about it. As Springer, he still calls me Sedbury. So tell us about, because there's a lot of listeners that I'm sure watch the Springer show or listen. When did you guys meet? 2015. In the prison, though. Yeah, in the South Hall at Cummins Prison.

How has that interaction? Oh, I hit it off with him right away. We had another friend named Shang that I hung out with that I met in prison too, and then they knew each other from the streets. here's the thing the whole time I was in prison and county jail, I never encountered a single soul that I knew from the streets. Like in for the world, anybody I met would have been prison-wise,

but I hadn't yet to ever meet anybody in prison or jail that I knew in the world. That's just not the crowd I hung with. So it was weird. I was at work release, and I hear some guy calling my name, my GW, what I go by, nobody called me that. I'm like, freak me out. It's been years, right?

Come up as a guy I graduated high school with since first grade, we went school together. He just church ministry. And they happened to be at work release and he heard I was there. And he was up in the barracks screaming for me. I'm like, Danny, what, you know, don't want to him. And describe work release. Like, how is, how much freedom do you have?

What's that like? You know, I will say this too. Prison sucks, but Arkansas is not as horrible. I didn't have that bad of experience with the administration. I, you know, that hasn't been that bad. Work release is a very strict place. But I remember we left prison. We're all shackled and changed, right?

And they drive us to the work release center, unhook us and go wait right here at the door. We're going to go get coffee. They went around behind the building to get coffee. And I'm looking at the road. You don't look at city streets and no fences, nothing. And we're staying there unchackled. But we just been shackled for the whole van ride. And I'm like, wow, food was better.

Oh, my God. You spent, I think, 60 or 90 days doing whatever institutional job there before you could get a real job. He had to be on a list. But it was very strict. Your shoes. I remember Sarge kicking my racket in the middle of the night because my bunkmate hadn't got his shoe straight. One was crooked. Like he's at work.

get up and fix it. So it's just that kind of stuff that just... But, like, you were treated better, you have vending machines, you could spend $35 a week cash at the vending machines. No pennies. Pinnies will get you sent back to prison. I wrote a little song to remind you, Choice Hotels, get you more of the experiences.

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Well, you get called with pennies, you're gone. Because there's no reason you'd have pennies. Because it's vending machine change. But the freedom of jobs, a lot of guys got went back to prison because they couldn't handle that freedom. Cell phones or tobacco. They had to dip or stealing, calling their girl on a company phone there. I mean, it was a good thing if you just worked.

worked it right. And you ended up getting kicked back to prison. I got out. No, I got out, went home, and then got it in trouble again. And I got a revocation. I went back for another 10 months. Did you get arrested for the similar crime? Yeah. And that time I was going in on open houses acting like I was interested in the house. Wait, why would you do the same thing over again? I still had addiction issues. I went back to it, yeah.

That one year in jail didn't kick it? No, the two years total then, no. I got out and I wanted to see how my tolerance was. And yeah, I went down that road again. Maybe you're too smart for your own good just to think about that aspect, you know? Like your mind was like, because that's something I would do. I'd be like, I want to just give it a shot and see where this leads. Now I won't touch it. I've had dental work.

I refuse pain medicine because I know I know I could, but I'm afraid one was too much. And it would just, so I won't do it. So now you were going to open houses just getting. I was going to open houses looking around like I'm interested. I'd make conversations, you know, because when I got caught, they would tell like, he acted like his name was Chris or Michael. and had a wife with kids. Yeah, I just came up with this whole story and kind of sociopathic a little bit.

And I would go in and just pull a piece or two and then, you know, making money. It didn't go on very long. They caught on quick. What happened, though, that was so bad is right when I got arrested, there was a realtor. Because remember, I'm acting like I'm a realtor. There was a woman that an ex-con, actually, somebody that got out kidnapped her and brutally murdered her. Just to get her money in ATM cards. And it wasn't until he did something on her cell phone updated.

to the cloud, the cops could find them. And so I got lumped in with all that negative press because it's real estate, houses for sale, and a realtor got. So they were extra hard on me because just the timing of it. 13 years from my first time in trouble for residential burglary. So you didn't go back, you didn't get another charge. You just had to conflate more of the sentence? No, I had a couple more, but they still revowed me, which would be six months. And they put a couple charges on and I ended up doing 10 total on it.

Just 10 months? Yeah. Oh, okay. And that was a part of the 13 years? No, that was been run concurrently. So they gave me 13 years. And in Arkansas nonviolent, you do two months on a year, one sixth. So 13 years would be 26 months.

And I did right at 24. I got an early kickout. Went back, got the revocation. And then they gave me eight with four suspended, you know, which would be eight months, two months on a year. And that worked out to be about 10 months total before I got kicked out because I sat in county for two months. It's crazy that how each state is so very different. Like on a 13 year, it sounds bad getting 13 years,

but you're only doing a couple years. Prison math. But then at the other end of it, would you rather do the time in prison and be free and clear, or would you rather be out and abide by the rules? Get out and buy by the rules. I'm okay with parole.

That's your freedom. You learn how to manage your life better into existence society with that leash on you. I understand why it's effective. If you let parole work like it's supposed to, you're okay. I don't really have a problem with it. You know, the Fed's abolished the parole.

in like the 90s or the 80s? I thought you still could have a little bit of a tail. You serve 85%. And I think with Trump's new policies that he enacted before he left, that's a little bit more, you get a little extra time off for programming. But you're serving the majority of your sentence.

I've got a buddy who's about to go to federal prison right now for embezzling and stuff. Yeah, I never saw that coming. And good dude, but he's waiting to get sentenced. The other day was his deal, but they pushed it back again. and he's been waiting for six months to get his time. But I want to say they told him he was going to do 40% or 50% of the Fed time.

That's what is. How much time is he getting? Not very much. He might do. If he's getting a year and a day, he's probably only going to do like 50%. Yeah, it'll be less than three years. I think 18 to 24, 18 to 30 months. Yeah, he's going to do at least 50.

So the way they, when lawyers, what I've learned is when lawyers tell you that, so say you get 18 months, right, the lawyer will count six months halfway house time. And then your good time on top of that. And the halfway house time, they'll put. on an ankle monitor or just dial in or whatever. So there's like loopholes for that. But like if you got a 20-year sentence, you're not going to now after 10 years.

Oh, God, no, no, no, no. No. That, no. But it's funny that when I remember when they gave me eight before suspended my public defender, she's like, oh, God, they're going to send you to a program. You know, that snitch camp. I'm like, no, they're not.

She's like, what do you mean? I said, they're never going to take me. I've been in prison for my revocation, right, waiting on this. They'll take you from the streets into that program. They will not take you because of politics. coming from a unit into that. So I was like, I'm going home in September.

I already knew. And sure enough, September 3rd, I was released. So when you went back in, do you have the same hierarchy? First time I worked every program I could. I tried to be the best it made I could, you know, just work it. And I really didn't help. So the second time I went in and said, fuck it. And I'm taking over, baby.

No, no, I didn't. I just sat back. I had my Scrabble hustle again. And I sat with a bunch of old-timers doing life. And that was the smartest thing I've ever done. they taught me how to read human nature, I could see, and you probably know this, I could see a guy on his rack with his box open.

And he would look, and immediately I'm looking around to see who's noticing. Like I could probably pick out the person that's probably going to make the hit before they even see the boxes open, right? So I'm watching, like, bam, I know it's going to be him. And when he sees that box, I've already found who his homeboy is he's going to look at, right? So I've already see the whole play before it happens. And these old-timers taught me how to watch human nature. It's so predictable because that's what they do all the time.

And they would get youngsters and try to set them on a straight path. And I just really gravitated to those guys. And so I tried to be helpful. But, yeah, I wouldn't take them programs. I wouldn't do anything I didn't have to. No, you said you were close to the execution chamber. Did you ever see guys walking to that? No, no, no.

They hadn't fried anybody in a while or shot them out. They keep it there and clean, though, just in case. It's clean and ready to go? Yeah, constantly. Could you see into it? No, no. Through the glass? I've seen pictures online, obviously, in the news.

Is it like eerie walking past that door? It's a little weird. Yeah, just every day you kind of notice it doesn't get more normalized. You're like, people die there. Have you been reading those articles that people actually want to, like, bring back, like, the firing squad or they could choose how they want to be executed in certain states? I think it's fair. Yeah. I was just like, I don't know.

It's weird to think about. How would you choose? How would I choose probably lethal injection if it was done right, quick and painless? Like, I wouldn't want to be, like, hung. I don't know how hanging would work. Is that instant? Yeah, if they break your neck. But if they got the science down right,

but you can either tear your head off or not, you'll just suffocate. There's different. The guillotine. I'd probably take a bullet in the chest. In the chest? 30 caliber, yeah, right in the heart. You think that'll instantly?

What the guy misses and it's off by a little bit. From my understanding, say there's four guys firing are five. Only one or two have live rounds, and they don't know who has the live rounds, so no one has to live with the consequences of it. Oh, that's how they do it? Yeah, you didn't know that. They don't just one person.

They'll have multiples up there. Some are firing blank. Some are firing live rounds. You just don't know which. But they're all. feeling the guiltiness of the conscience, though, right? Yeah, but they all can tell themselves that they didn't do it. They're psychological for them.

I mean, who would want that job? Wouldn't you want a headshot, though, or no? I got a big chest. I feel more confident they'll hit me in this chest in my head. Yeah, but then you read those stories about the lethal injection cases where the person, like, suffers, and that's no way to go out either. Yeah, strap down. I don't want to.

But I'm also never going to do anything to get to that point where that's going to happen. It's morbid we think about it, though, isn't it? Yeah, it's crazy, man. just hearing stories and what people do and how like how crazy people are like it just you know did you when you were there did you sense did you feel real evil around some people like you could just it emanates from them some people are evil you could tell like they're just there's there's evil people the guys walking around with shanks and trying to extort people and then you have the guys that try to be evil but they got a big heart like they they got to present themselves a

certain way and those are the guys like i adapted to because they did the guys that some bad shit on the outside. You know, they robbed people, they did this, they shot people, whatever, but inside they got a good heart. And they were just brought up a certain way or they were in that environment and that shape, you know, what they did. But then there's the guys that are literally just pure black heart, stone cold evil. Socialopaths and cycle paths. Yeah. Like the guys that were trying to fuck with me and stuff, those are just like some evil dudes. Like there's no reason with individuals like that. I don't, you know, you bring that up. Like I met a lot of dudes that were in from some violent crimes that I was end up being really close with.

A good friend of mine is actually getting out in two years. I think he's done 18 years. He broke two dudes next. He's 610, 3.50, though. He's a big dude. Somebody robbed him and it just, anyway, went south. And so he got 88 years and he'll do that 18 or 20 on it. And just the gentlest guy.

Like, when I found out my grandmother died, the chaplain never told me, even though my uncle's calling the prison over and over to let me know because they were going to try to get me out to go the funeral. You know, you can go be escorted, which I'm glad I did. and I don't want to go grandma's funeral like that. And he wouldn't tell me, but he didn't tell a lot of people that their family members had died. It was a control thing.

And that really got me. And he kept everybody away from me that night to kind of let me sort it out. And then I remember I got called in front of the whole executive committee of the prison. I'm standing there. It's like 30 people staring at me. I'm in this box, right? Apparently somebody in my family had wrote a letter to the warden thought that I should serve all 13 years in prison, like day for day.

What family member does that? Because the warden even goes, my 30 years. of doing this, I've never got a letter from a family member like this. And she goes, how does that make you feel? You know, that question, I'm like, I don't know what I'm supposed to feel. Like, just, you know, your mind is just, and I got out of that situation, I go back to barracks and he saw my face. He's like, what's wrong?

And I told him, and he told everybody just get out of the corner of the barracks. I'm on my rack. Don't nobody come touch. Don't come anywhere near your rack to lights out. He kept, because that's the day things can go really south. You know, I'm hurt and I'm in a really foul place. And if shit would have popped off, I mean, it would have cost me. You know, so again, a violent guy who just had a big tender heart.

So I knew a lot of those guys. Usually murderers were the people I hung with because... Do you say that so casually? I mean, when Big Big gets out, I'll help him get a job. I'll help him do anything. I'd invite him to your grandmother's house for lunch and she'd love him. He's just a really nice dude. I know you meet a lot of.

I mean, there's been people that have been convicted of murder or attempted murder that come on the show here. And, you know, it's the same thing. They're good-hearted people. And a lot of the times the people that have died in their cases were a part of that life too. You know, like I don't know the specifics, but they were involved in gang violence or they were doing something. It was like a collateral as a part of that world. Game, yeah, it's part of the chalked up to the game, I guess. Yeah, you know, it's a value prison taught me to value human life more.

Like I see somebody homeless on the street. I was locked up a lot of homeless people in county, right? I got to talk to them, hear their stories. And it changed my view on how I look at people. Like, you know an ex-con from a mile away. You'll meet them. And I don't care what it is. As long as they're a sex crime or you heard a woman, like, dude, we're cool.

You know what I mean? Because we're in part of that brotherhood or that fraternity. And if society won't give them respect, I will. You know, they did their time they got out. They must have figured it out or paid their debt. But we're judged so harshly in most cases, which in a way gives us a weapon. When you come out of prison, did you feel uncumbered? You know what I mean?

Like, you've already done. done all this, everything been stripped away from you, your name, your credibility, your money, you wouldn't have anything on you anymore. Yeah. And they still make it worse. Like it never ends. Literally from the day you get arrested. Actually, honestly, but it's like the day you first find out you're under investigation because you,

that's when the stress starts that that first day, get arrested. There's no, it's not innocent until proven guilty. You are guilty the second you're arrested all the way through throughout everything. And you're still guilty. I didn't feel a relief until I got off probation. So I got arrested in 2015. I got off probation in 2022. So that was seven years of my life every single day with that hanging over me.

I still haven't now, though. Yeah. And even still for the couple years after, it wasn't until I got this, what I do now, that I'm fully good because now I don't need to ever have that feeling of having to walk into a job. and knowing that they could reject me because of my felony. Do you know how I got around that? The only job that's ever turned me down is Amazon. Really?

It said they need, I was right at the five years away, been out, but I was still on parole. But I went in for interviews and I'm a convicted felon. They're like, really? And I'm, you know, I have 10 felonies, blah, blah. And they're like, well, you know, I don't know. I said, let me ask you something. Why didn't the judge give me a life sentence? He's like, I don't know.

I go, so why are you? And they kind of take a step back. And that kind of, for some reason, turns, gears and they kind of look at it differently because they're holding me to a standard that's not even applied by law and that's how usually I'll back people off yeah but I'm always open I don't lie about the application yeah I worked for Amazon too from Whole Foods see you got lucky got to work there I couldn't yeah because I think it's weird like with their background check it's like federal they only run for like sex offender cases I think state it's different I don't know who cares

I just I'm so happy I just don't have to be in that position and I want to inspire people to never have to feel like that by carving their own path and fuck these other restaurants and people that won't give someone a shot. And I guarantee you, you hire someone that that's been to prison that actually genuinely wants to turn their life around. They're going to work harder than any single other person out there. I've had three jobs where the head person there said they love felons. He says the hard.

He goes, sometimes it's a craps tube. When you get a good one, he goes, are the best workers I've got. Yeah. And I would say this, black guys are some of the best salesmen I've ever. ever seen. Like if they would just apply, you know, find it something different to sell because I've seen them work on a woman for a year to get in their bridges, a guard. And they'll get there. They just are so persistent, you know, I mean, I just look. I'm like, why aren't you selling mortgages or cars? You would make a killing because you're such a good salesman. I know. So what did

you end up getting into when you got out of prison? I got my CDL. It's the best thing I ever did. I've heard a lot about that from guys that got out. That is, my work release was for a truck and trailer repair company and sales company. So I got to drive vehicles on the property for the job, which is weird to drive, you know, when you get out. And they helped me get my CDL. So as soon as I got done, I went and took the test, and then I've still got it. I've got every endorsement, hazmat. So I have a clean record, you know, driving record. So I'm the gold standard when it comes to CDLs because I can get in anything legally. And I wish more prisons would set that up to get inmates. You'll see they got hope when they get out. They can get a good job. And you can

work for yourself with the CDL too, couldn't you? Yeah, but you go work for somebody that you're making, I don't starting off 800,000 a week, but you don't have home cost. If you're over the road, you're living in their truck. You know, you can stack money up for a year or two that way. And you see those trucks driving on the road that are looking, they pay even more. Like, I've seen ads like $2,000 a week or this or that because they're looking for guys. And it's a good. If you're getting now and you're single, do that all day. I went to the oil field after a while in New Mexico and Texas. Really? And when Biden and got elected, turned the whole thing upside down, then found a job in Indiana came up there.

But, you know, if you work hard, it'd be six figures. But, you know, like, what you said about me is, like, that I was destined to figure something out. The same goes to you, you know, like, you're always going to figure it out. You're anyone that's a hard worker in America and is determined, they're going to figure it out. And I think this is, like, it's a great thing. So something I think about is, like, I've seen homeless people on the street.

And you have homeless people, and then you have people that, like, ask for money. It is so easy to make something in America. Just like, I'm not saying millions, that's obviously not easy. But just to walk into a place in a world where everyone's looking for someone to work or whatever to get a job just to at least provide for yourself. I respect that more of the person that's trying than the person that's just asking for something. You know, looking back, I agree with you. But if everybody thought that way, we wouldn't have the opportunities we have.

You know exactly how stressful and hard it is to be a content creator and build this and go on your own. It is a tremendous amount of pressure, is it not? Yeah. And I can see why so many people give up because I feel it now and you just got to keep pushing through it. But if everybody thought the way you just said, we wouldn't have opportunity to all be taken up. But not even taking it being an entrepreneur, though. I'm just saying just because this, yeah, it does take a certain person to do this. You're talking about just in general with jobs.

I'm saying in general, yeah, like not just to go in off the street and like you could go to any store and they're going to hire you. Like any store, everyone's, even since COVID, like, so many people are looking for employees. But I know so many people say they can't find jobs. And I don't know why that is. Yeah. Do you think that's actually accurate? They're not trying enough.

I'm not trying. People have gotten comfortable with less. They're picky. Yeah, they're not wanting to do what it takes. You know that. It's opportunities there everywhere. But some people don't know how to recognize the opportunity, don't know what to do with in front of them.

I mean, I see it all the time talking to people. And I'm like, there's nothing you can't do. do. Literally, but some people can't see that or don't want to see it. Yeah, I mean, when I was on pretrial before, after getting found guilty, but awaiting sentencing, I tried to apply for a job and I applied to 100 places. Not one of them would hire me. Because your pretrial? Yeah, because they saw the news in the paper.

I went to Red Lobster. Couldn't get a job as a dishwasher. Fuck a dishwasher. Guy said, come back when you resolve your issues. A dishwasher. It was nine bucks. This is 2016, $9 an hour. Fuck you, Red Lobster.

Danbury, Connecticut, Red Lobster. If it wasn't for the cheese and biscuits, I wouldn't have to eat. You could get those in the frozen aisle now and then stop and shop. But isn't that sad? Like, you're going to say I couldn't get a job as a dishwasher. I'm not sitting here on my high horse saying that, like, I wanted to be the GM or something. I was just a kid that needed a job to, you know, to make some money. They didn't need to hire people that bad either.

Motherfuckers. I'd never go to that restaurant. Dan very good. Well, I'm not going to run lobster either. Ever. Cat and these for me. But that's, that's a... USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%.

Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Problem, you know, it's these places like this that are so anti, you know. What, uh, Taco Bell Hut, you know, the Taco Bell Pizza Hut, KFC or whatever you call them. I knew some people that applied. The manager wanted them because that felony showed up in the background check. They would not take

them under any. That's just their rule for it. Even though the manager knew they would be good, but there's nothing they could do to get around it. And I learned a lot of jobs to tell you they run background checks. They don't because they cost money. So I tell a lot of inmates lie. Just lie. And if it comes up, you weren't going to get the job anyway. At least you made a couple

weeks of paychecks. Move on. Yeah, you're not getting arrested over it, unless it's like a federal job, which you're not going to get anyways. But yeah, you do what you've got to do. And also lie about experience because in this day and age, you just have to have the knowledge to figure it out. Like if you want to go work at a restaurant, say you're the best damn chef and learn it as you go,

you know, and work your way up to get in the door. Confidence, been able to sell yourself, and you can figure it out. I mean... When I was a manager at Whole Foods, people would say, I don't really have experience. I would take them anyways because you could teach them. You give them that experience in a world where it's so hard to hire,

screw it, you know? They're looking for a job. I'm going to take them. I'm not going to turn away anyone. I'll figure it out. There's always a purpose. If somebody's teachable, I agree. But somebody not long ago asked about how do you go find jobs that you want these days.

I don't think I've ever went and looked at a wanted ad. I look for companies I want to work for. I remember when I sold radio in Dallas, I was trying to get a big client. And I found a prosthetic arm at a thrift store. And I sent it to him in a box and said, I'd give my right arm to work with you. And they were so blown away by this prosthetic arm. I got the account, you know, and it was, but I learned to just, think of different ways. I don't go to jobs because they're looking for somebody. I go because

that's who I want to. I target them and I show them that I'm somebody that they want to hire and that's just always worked out for me. I may have to show up 10 times, but they get tired of me showing up and hiring me. I do that in the mortgage business. What do you think are the biggest lessons you've learned from going to prison, your experience in the criminal justice system, everything you've learned afterwards, just, you know, the last 20 years of your life have been a lot different. You have two acts. You have before 30 and then after 30. What's your mindset changed into? Empathy. I did not know I could be so empathetic, like painfully empathetic for people now. It taught me to look at the human beings differently. It taught me not to judge

harshly. Everybody has a story. But again, I think a lot of it comes back to empathy and going to prison strip me of desires of, I don't want to own a Ferrari. I just don't care about that stuff. I don't need a 10,000 square foot house ever. I don't, I don't, I just don't want that stuff. I saw how people got caught up by wanting things, stealing, you know, to, to get those. It just changed how I view life and people. I value people in relationships as opposed to things now. And I know it sounds kind of weird, but I don't know. It taught me to grow up. It gave me wisdom. And it probably taught me how I love harder, just everybody in general, like genuinely just care about people. I saw so much hurt and pain in prison. And I had a fantastic father and I met a lot of

guys who didn't ever know their dad or had horrible abusive fathers. You know, I met your dad, great guy. A lot of guys don't have that. And I realized how lucky I was. And I realized at the point when I had nothing, when I got to jail, literally had nothing because Mike's Krova took everything I owned. So I was going out to nothing. And I realized I still had a lot more than a lot of people. you know, because I had this and this, and I had some people that cared about me, and that made me wealthy. I didn't need stuff.

And that, I don't know, when I say unencumbered, just I came out with a clean heart and a cleaner mind. And it changed me pretty dramatically. If there's one thing you could change from the past, is there something and would you do it? I mean, outside my crime and that I created victims, that's probably the thing that I live with the most guilt on, but I wouldn't change a single thing.

I mean, I got, my childhood could be, when I was 15, my dad was diagnosed with brain cancer, given a year to live. And exactly one year later, I'm in the hospital with spinal meningitis. They didn't know if I was going to live. And I'm thinking he's going to die that day because it's the year, you know, I'm a teenager, right? I'm losing my dad today. And I've been there in the hospital week for weeks. I can't walk.

My legs don't work for meningitis. And I remember my mom and sister came up to see us. And about two hours later, our preacher came in and said, hey, I got something to tell you, your house just burned down while we were all at the hospital. seeing me. And I got released the next day to go home after like four weeks in the hospital. We didn't have a home to go to. And so my dad didn't die. He'd beat cancer. He had four more times. Brain cancer finally got him in 2011. This was 1986, mind you. That's how long he kept living with cancer. And that right there taught me that's the worst day of my life because the hot water heater blew out, destroyed her house. And my mom and a little sister had stayed home, they'd be gone.

And I was already thinking I'm losing my dad to brain cancer. And then my life was touching go with Meningjadas. And I realize I'll never have a bad day again. To this day, I don't have a bad day because there could be nothing worse than that one day, January 5th, 1987. I almost lost to my family. You know, now I still don't have family now, but that pain of that, oh, man, it makes me fearless. So I wouldn't change really anything because I wouldn't be the man I am today.

I don't believe in living with regrets. I love that. G.W., thank you so much, man, for coming on the show today. Thank you. I feel, actually, I feel good. I like this stuff. Those are good, right? Yeah, I actually like that.

Yeah, I'll give you another one for the road. Heck yeah. This was so fun, man. Thanks, Ian. You know, when you walked in here, you could just tell the energy on someone, you know? You're just like, I don't know, there's something about you, you know? Like, you give off that good vibe and it was a good dynamic. And I think this episode's going to do really well and get your story out.

And hopefully it helps your platform and what you have going on.