Locked In with Ian Bick - Inside a Violent Gang Member’s Brutal Life: From the Streets to Maximum Security Prisons | Jadon Russell

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

Jadon Russell shares his experience inside gang life, from street violence to surviving in maximum-security prisons. He talks about his time in crime, the choices that led to prison, and life behind bars. From gang wars to solitary confinement, Jadon explains the reality of the streets and prison system. #GangLife #PrisonSurvival #StreetViolence #MaximumSecurity #TrueCrime #ExConvict #CrimeStory #Redemption Thank you to LUCY & ORGAIN for sponsoring today’s episode: Lucy: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy.  Go to HTTP://LUCY.CO/IANBICK and use promo code (IANBICK) to get 20% off your first order. Lucy has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind.  Orgain: For 30% off your order, head to Orgain.com/IANBICK and use code IANBICK.  Connect with Jadon Russell: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/og_the1?igsh=MW50cncyY294azZ0Yg== Buy his book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DQBRRGLT?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cso_sms_apin_dp_4GJ3SDGF83EAEJDKX37H&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cso_sms_apin_dp_4GJ3SDGF83EAEJDKX37H&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cso_sms_apin_dp_4GJ3SDGF83EAEJDKX37H&starsLeft=1&skipTwisterOG=1&bestFormat=true&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYaCXc02eyyvmD0yd3Bxyb16N3B3lwiNywKY3YCJ7dsBS33G3-dB5nPj3g_aem_k-BxQaYuHCz9iF74dyFmKQ&dplnkId=8c7438cb-30df-47c1-8053-4ca290bd8e6a&nodl=1 Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introduction to Jadon Russell AKA OG Ryder 00:05:05 Growing Up Without Guidance: The Streets as Family 00:10:12 The Impact of Prison on Personal Development 00:15:31 Influences and Street Mentors 00:20:27 Transition from Juvenile to Adult Prison 00:25:51 Life After Incarceration: Struggles and Adaptation 00:30:46 The Cycle of Recidivism and Negative Thoughts 00:35:42 Experiences in County Jail and Poor Conditions 00:41:08 Life at USP Hazelton: First Impressions 00:46:00 Prison Bribery and Food Smuggling 00:51:10 Prison Life and Notable Inmates 00:55:50 Understanding Prison Politics and Racial Tensions 01:01:58 Facing Challenging Prison Environments 01:05:43 From Creativity to Educational Tools 01:10:49 Overcoming False Charges in Court 01:16:03 Overcoming Legal Battles and Life Transformation 01:21:34 The Power of Lived Experience in Storytelling Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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IQ bar.com, code Brain IQ. This is a paid message from GoFundMe. Meet Juan Naula. When a son was hospitalized for a viral infection, Juan started a GoFundMe to pay for medical expenses. It was 5K to pay the bill for my son, and I needed only 22 hours. It was amazing.

People really trust on GoFundMe. How did Juan raise $5,000 in less than a day? He posted a short video on GoFundMe, telling his story in 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Be specific. big quick and tell what are you going to be using the funds for. I was nervous to do it because it doesn't feel okay to ask money, but you shouldn't be nervous.

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Welcome to Lockton, man. How you doing, my brother? Thank you for having me, man. First and foremost, you know. Thank you for coming, man, all the way from Jersey City, right? Jersey, man. It's been New Jersey to be exact. You guys were supposed to get some snow today, right?

You were saying? I think so. It stopped. It was snowing recently out there. Okay. But it stopped. Cool. Well, I appreciate you coming, bringing the crew.

I'm glad you got to see the studio and we're definitely going to be connecting and collabing. Absolutely. Filming some skits and you shooting your movie. that you got in the works. Correctional corruption, man. We got that coming. Awesome. And plug in your merch and everything you got going on right now.

Level seven, man. I got the book out. That's on Amazon. That's going. That's up. And you can order that. The link is in my bio on IG. OG underscore T.H.

Number one, the legend. You can go order that right now as we speak, you know. And I want that to touch as many lives as it can. It's really aimed at the youth. But it's also for any person that's going through things mentally. Mental health awareness is real. So I wanted to use my experiences, you know, to delve into the world that corrupts us. And where does it stem from?

Where does it come from? All of the corruptional things that does affect us mentally. And that's why I wrote Level 7 book. I love that. Did you grow up in Jersey? All my life, Elizabeth, New Jersey, man, through and through. No, Jersey City. That's always been my stomping grounds, you know, the whole New Jersey, man.

Who do you grow up with? Who did I grow up with? Yeah, mom, dad, siblings. My mom, my pops. of my mother got divorced, I think I was 10, nine years old, I want to say, or maybe even eight, I want to say back when I was like eight, about to be nine, I remember they finally got the divorce and that was it. That's the last time I really saw or been around pops, really. So after that, the streets kind of took me at like the age of 10 years old. So me and him

was distanced from that point on, you know. What do your parents do for work? My mom, she was actually a school aide teacher. She used to deal with the special needs children, right? And, well, have you there, right? Ironically, her son is one of the baddest-ass-kids in school, you know what I'm saying? So that worked out pretty damn good with her always getting called to the principal office. So, yeah, my pops, he was a DJ, though. He loved music. He loved to do music.

He loved to work in computers as well. He was a computer technician. For as far back as I can remember, he dibbled and dabbled in computers a lot. But mostly music was his passion. What were some things they taught you as a kid when you were a young kid growing up? My mom's something that stuck out with her first is, you know, you have everything inside of you already to succeed. And I remember when I was locked up, she wrote me that inside of a card. That was something that she put in the card and that really got me.

She told me straight up, man. That's all she wrote inside of it. I love you. And it was during the hard times when I first got locked up facing, I think, almost my first five-year bit. So I didn't know which way life was taking me. And that card meant a lot to me on my birthday. And inside it, it said the same exact word. gave me young, you know. You don't need anything. Everything you need is inside you already to succeed.

So that's something she taught me. My father, he taught me, when you do good things, good things happen. If you do bad things, bad things will happen. He always said that. That was one of his favorite sayings. Was he against street life? Totally against it. That's why we fell out, man. My first time going to jail, actually. Can you imagine being 15 years old, catching your first bid, a shooting charge, and you call your father and he tell you, don't call me, son. I can't help you. And from that point on, our relationship just, you know, severed from there. It was a rap. Did your family struggle for money before they got divorced?

Absolutely. Poverty was, it was everywhere. When you look around us, I come from that. I come from shit, man, you know? Make no joke of it. Court Street, Catherine Street, these are the streets. And Elizabeth, it's poverty. It was filled poverty-stricken.

So making a way out with something, you know, you had to be filled with some type of determination. Because poverty was all around us. That's what we grew up in. How would your parents describe you if they were here right now? now as a kid? Determined. Determine. As a kid, I think they would say determined.

I was always determined. I didn't always look to their way, right? Or their guidance as the best way. I was just determined to do things. Better for myself, better for life, and ultimately better for them if I can. What was your long-term goal then if you had one? Like, did you want to go to college?

Nothing. I played ball shortly when I was young. That's the crazy thing. I love basketball, man. Basketball was my passion. So basketball was something I was passionate about at an early age, but after the streets took a hold of me at such a young age, basketball, I just left it behind, man.

The dreams just, you know, hoop dreams deflate, right? Like a true fiend's weight in the words of Jay-Z. Why do you think you went to street life? What do you think was that, you know, key factor that turned you on to it? Everybody could scream poverty. But I think ultimately, man, just love, really. But we confused it as love. I thought it was love.

You think the streets love you. when you grow up. You ultimately do. That's what I was around. So that's what actually I gravitated more to the streets. I thought that's what love me. That's what poor loved inside of me,

the things it taught me, right? The way it embraced you, the streets don't judge you. But we confuse that with love. Anything that just accept us for who we are, you suddenly would think that loves you, especially when you're young. I was 10, 9.

When I left my house, actually, my parents' house, I never looked back since. I never lived with them since. So you can imagine being that young of an age, man, how does it affect you, right? Growing up, you don't have an ultimate end. You don't know where you're going. You know you just want to be hardheaded and you think you know it all.

When you left, did you feel abandoned? Like they didn't chase after you and try to help you? Actually, that's what's crazy they did. That led to me and my father falling out ultimately too because when he came back and tried to get me out the streets at like 10, when he did pull up on me, he tried to put his hands on me. that led me to trying to even physically harm him, man. I put a gun in his mouth.

And so the trigger actually jamped when I pulled it. But my temper was so high and flared, you know, being so fresh in the streets and being full with so much negative thinking, I want to call it, because at the time, you don't think it's negative, right? You think you know it all. So I wasn't trying to hear anything. I wasn't even trying to hear his discipline when he was trying to give it to me. And the way he was trying to present it, right?

Physically, that's where it started at, like a chip of my mind. my shoulders, so to speak, in the streets, you know, you're going to let nobody touch you. You know what I'm saying? Put their hands on you. So I even tried to take it to that far of a stint as to, that even applied to my pops, man. And that's what me and him severed that way is really, that really attainted the relationship forever. Where do you think that anger came from as a kid? Poverty.

Poverty makes you angry. I mean, even as a doubt, if you broke, right? Money, you don't have no money. You're angry. So it stems there, really. And then seeing the things my mom's went through. right not making an excuse for it but it happened you can't unsee what you saw in life so seeing these type of things poverty abuse drugs all of that type of things man it leaves you to think that

that's the best choice for me as well right so you just dive into that whole world not even knowing where it can lead you too did your mom know about that incident with your dad that you just described yeah she she was brokenhearted she didn't never want to come in between us or pick aside so i always watched her stay neutral, but I knew that hurt her, right? And she accepted me for me, but she never knew I would go that far with things. And once I went there, it was like, you can't take it back now. Apologies don't help, right? He's a grown man. So, you know, he took that some type of way. But it was done. So I just lived with it. And ultimately, that caused me to just be in the streets more and live life without him.

Were you still going to school up until you got caught your first case, or did you drop out at that time? No, I never, man. You know, it's crazy. We never. but went to school really, one from Catherine Street, man. We used to go to school on lunch break. That's some wild shit, right? We really did. We used to go to school and lunch break. We used to go to this dinah, Majestics.

True Story, in Elizabeth, New Jersey, man, and the hive. And we'd go up there and just walk from Catherine Street. And the school was around the corner from my block while I hustled that. But I chose the block to stay there more than even school. I go check and periodically. Lunchtime, go see what the chicks look like. You know what I mean? We walk up there, start trouble fighting and shit.

But that was it. It was really like schools came secondary to me. The streets was first. Money was first. So was there no accountability from the school system to be able to do that? No, whatsoever. It's no accountability, man. You know, they're doing their job.

They don't look at accountability. Accountability comes with a person that really fills some type of way. It could be sympathetic or empathetic to your situation, right? And back then, teachers wasn't that empathetic. They just did their job. So it was no sympathy. It was no remorse for all. He's a child.

It was like more so. you wanted to make that choice, go ahead. You made your bed lying it. Tell us what happened about that first charge that you got for the shooting. That was a root of awakening, 15 years old, catching attempted murder. That would really open your eyes to any young man at 15 years old. You don't know what's down the road, what's to come. First off, you could have threw your whole life away.

Let's start there, right? So with that, you got to take a step back and look at what you've done. But you've done it. So you've got to deal with this. And I grew up in jail, really. All my years from 15, all the way up, my teens, right, was thrown away through incarceration. Was that charge gang related? The first one was, the second one was they put gang charges on me and gang enhancement

ever since I've been going to jail. Before that, it was juvenile. My juvenile, it really, really wasn't anything to do with any gang, right? But after I left the route home, that's when it was. it turned just ultimately just violent, man. Why do you think you turn to gangs? I want to say gangs turned to me. I always tell people that.

That's what I was around. It chose me. I didn't raise my hand and actually asked to be in a gang. You get what I'm saying? It was the people that was already involved in, they knew I fit the criteria if we want to speak of such, right? To join anything, you have to meet a criteria. It ain't like that no more.

It's so watered down, right? But back then, that's what drew me ultimately. them having a rapport with me, knowing the type of person I am. So that's where it came from. It was drawn to me. It was not like I raised my hand. That shit came to me. It was already in me.

Do you have resentment towards those individuals for pulling you into that life? Absolutely not. Why? Because it gave me a sense of, I want to say, sharpness. You know, you're not supposed to use or lose certain chinks in your armor as a man, right? And that army, because you never know what you need to be prepared for in life as a man. My father didn't give me all of the things that I needed

because he probably wasn't giving all of the things he needed mentally in the sharp world out here. So I don't resent them in the fact that the things they have taught me that not give a fuck more, right? It made me careless in a way, but it also helped me because it was situations that occurred where if I wasn't street smart or I didn't know and didn't learn from my big homies, right? I would have felt them tests that was given

because life will test you. What were some of the things you learned in prison at that young age that kind of developed your mindset negatively? Chips on your shoulder, man. Like you take respect is a big word. Let's start there. So the first thing I would say is you take everything like you don't, a person don't know when they're disrespecting you. And jail was sometimes shortened that line of attention span where you can deal with disrespect to a certain degree. Jail puts that in this because it's zero tolerating.

for disrespect in jail. So when you're in jail and you learn to adapt to that, it's a difference. I'm going to say hard, but it's a big difference when you get on the street because what's disrespect to you in jail isn't disrespect to the next person on the street, right? A law by a citizen.

So I want to say that is where it really stems from and that's where a lot of things start from. Disrespect. People don't want to be disrespected. People don't want to be played with, played less than a man, right? And that's where it starts. When did you first learn that in prison,

like your very first time you witnessed something. First incident, disrespect. I want to say man as a juvenile. Like, you know, you get people that try you in little ways. So it's either you're going, if you don't respect yourself, no one will, especially in jail. You know that. I mean, so I want to say my first incident was breakfast, like a breakfast tray. Over something small, cereal.

I mean, I want an extra, couldn't get it. He didn't want to give it to me, things like that. So, of course, that led to a fight. So I've noticed that it grows, you know, little by little. but of course that because your mind is taking place in a negative manner little by little and because you're so young you're not even aware of that you're just going with the flow of things do you feel like you were kind of peer pressured into that first act of violence that landed you in prison I wouldn't say that peer pressure it was a choice I chose that that I chose to shoot them to me

motherfuckers like that we ain't going to make no job no joke about it you know so I don't I live with all of my choices I don't live with regret I don't I learned to live with it I should say I don't let regret bother me because I don't look at things as they happen to me it happened for me do you think that that five-year sentence was too light for you five years was a lot 15 I don't say it was like I think it was it could have been lighter on me don't you think but you didn't learn the lesson right I didn't I ain't learn I ain't learn shit man it prison I'm gonna say prison that's when I was young so going through that it's not a learn it's a learning experience but you don't really take it as that Because you can do so much of street things in there and street activity.

You don't learn much, really. You take it for granted. You do. It normally hit you your second time around. Were you looked at in like a higher regarded way when you got those charges and went to prison at a young age? Yes, because that's not seldomly seen, right? And so some people look at it and look up to it, although it shouldn't be something that you shined on, right? We shouldn't glorify negativity.

But some people want to be so gangster, so tough. that they do. They find themselves glorified and in awe by someone else's story of negativity. If you're still messing around with old school nicotine products, you're seriously missing out. Lucy is where it's at. Lucy is 100% pure nicotine. No tobacco, no nonsense. But here's what makes Lucy breakers different. Each pouch has a tiny capsule inside that when popped gives you a burst of extra flavor and hydration. It's smooth, satisfying. And honestly, it's pretty, fun. My flavor of choice, berry citrus. It's got that perfect blend of sweet and tangy and I throw one in before long road trips or when I'm locked into podcast editing mode and all the guys that hang out at

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Try it out and let me know what you think. Shoot me a message even on social media or comment on today's episode to tell me what you guys think too. Now let's get back into the show. people you were looking up to? Were you looking up to other street members and hearing stories? Absolutely, man. I came up around them type of individuals, you know? Like my older time was, man, he port posse, people from that era. Them my big bros that they did it before me. So, you know, the example that they sat in the trailblaze that they did, man, from getting money

to doing a lot of time, never tell and never fold in. You know, that's what shaped and mold me, so to speak, because I knew to abide to them rules, right? And that'll get you far in life, even if it don't make you a lot of money it's still as a man you'll keep yourself intact with morals and principles so I think that to them and tilt my hat to that to them

because watching them go through their trials and tribulations they blazed it, they started it. Did you have a plan for when you got out of prison that first time as a kid? I did not to go to fuck back that's all I wanted to do

you feel me? Just not go back man I wanted to just promise myself that and then from there you'll figure something out you'll figure something out but it starts there I knew I didn't want to go back

So when you don't want to go backwards, you got to find a reason to go forward, something that motivates you. Because going backwards because it feels like motivation in the self, not giving a fucking. You know, that can be motivation to you, just giving up to some people. Not giving the fucking giving up. It's two of the different same things. I look at it as opposites attract. If you don't give a fuck about nothing in life, man, it makes it easier for you to give up. You're going to track that, the energy to make you give up.

But once you care about things, you got to find something to make you move forward. something to make you keep going. Why do you think you didn't live by that and see that through? Didn't believe myself. That's why. It took a lot of belief in me because you don't need belief to do negativity. You don't need to believe in yourself. You don't have to be charismatic.

You don't have to have charm, right? You don't have to have, what do you call that, application, so to speak, to do negativity. So to do positive, it starts with you got to have a, And not just belief in yourself, but beliefs in the higher power as well, you know. And that grounds you right there when you want to find out that it is a bigger purpose for your life, right? And that's connected to a higher purpose. That grounds you right there to ground any person. So it started there for me to believe.

When you do an acts of violence like that at a young age, do you, does, is there like an adrenaline rush where you want to do more? Like at that age? Yeah, especially when you get away with it. That's what the adrenaline rush coming at. It's not the actual act of violence that takes place. You've been in a whole different world. You're zoned out with it. If you really live this shit and you're serious about it, right?

You're in a zone. It's something you do. It comes second nature. But not getting caught. That's what the adrenaline comes from because you want to keep doing it, keep doing it, until you feel like you can get caught. You're invisible. Then you don't even care if you did, if you get caught, you know?

But you did get caught that first time. Yeah, you do. You did. I did. Ultimately, lucky for me, right? I did, man. It taught me a big lesson. It was a learning lesson for me.

me. So it's something that to this day, it has helped me, man. Just look at life more clearly. Do you think that first sentence made you a better criminal? No, hell no. It didn't. We always think it's the right way to do wrong, right? It isn't, man. You're doing wrong. It's okay for now, but when you get caught, that's your ass. So it's no right way. So I don't think that. I regret it the fact and I live with this regret that I didn't look at it in a deeper manner. The second time around I started realizing like you could have learned this the first time. You do realize that, right? So I shitted myself, so to speak. So what was that shooting over? What happened? Really over again, back to disrespect. My family members got disrespected.

And I had to, I felt like I had to handle it that way, you know? I'm in honor of them. You know what I'm saying? And that's just my loyalty, man. Loyalty with me, that shit come without you asking. You don't have to ask me to do certain things. If I love you, I'm going to do what needs to be done. what I feel like needs to be done, just to make you feel better about what happened, especially if it's dealing with disrespect. I ain't going to never tolerate that with someone I love. Would you go to that extreme again if that were a situation were to happen now? I think it through now.

I know to think it through. I know it's more than one way to skin a cat, right? So I know it's, you can handle things differently, better. Everything has got to resort to violence. That's ultimately what all of this time in jail has led me to understand that. And you wouldn't believe this, but you learn that in jail from a lot of dudes that they violent, but they're violent if they have to be. I mean, no one wakes up and just want to be violent, especially people that's really gangsters, man. They ain't on that shit.

You think they are. They wake up every day in jail on that. Nah, they're finding themselves. They be humbling their self. So that makes you just want to move in a different manner once you come in contact with people like that. Do they keep you in a juvenile prison that whole time, or did you go to adult? I went to adult. They kept me in there, 15.

They locked me up. They kept me until I was 17. Then they kicked me out and waved me up as an adult. They wanted to charge me as a adult. That was the whole gate, right? They could have got me at when he locked me up, 15, charge me then. Why not charge me? Because I would have probably got, what, two years?

But they wanted that. Because ultimately, they want the conviction of an adult. They want that on your record before we even turn 18. Like, they want you to greet yourself, happy birthday with a charge. Did it humble you out a little bit when you were a kid at that age going to an adult prison? Because you were probably a hot job. shot in the juvenile.

Now you're going to an adult. It's a different level. Big league now, you know what I mean? It's the big leagues now, man. It did. Because you meet different people, right? That got different manners with their self. And you learn a lot about yourself too.

Because you're growing now. You're maturing. So you're on a different level now, man. It's levels to this shit. Now you reach the big leagues. You got to do what the big boys do. When was the first time you realized you were in the big leagues going to that adult prison?

My first incident with a correctional officer. Actually, that was my first time. my first incident with him because he didn't react in the manner like in juvenile they lock you up I take you wreck, take you to the hole you know he disrespecting me back when I disrespect to him

that's when I know okay I can do this here though I like this better than it he ain't talking about locking me up he's talking about let's fight so I knew right then okay this is different right here man and you guys fought

yeah we fought man he locked my ass up I went to the hole my first day in the county from getting waved up they put my ass in the hole they put me in the paper gown. He humiliated me, man. He said, I'm going to break your young guys down.

He wrote up. He did that. Put me in a paper gown for about three days. Gave me some bullshit. Food out, man. They did me wrong that whole man. Did me wrong, man. And I'm sure you gained respect

from the older inmates at that point? Yeah, because most people break down in there. You know what I'm saying? You go into that mental thing, man. It messes with you. You got to go to the chair, the restraining chair. You know how that should go. They take you to the infirmary from there, man.

You'd be gone. You know what I'm saying? You're done, man. But that did. It made, it made a man out of me. If it was in you, it's going to come out. And if it's not, that would come out of the tool, man. Because them's some horrible conditions.

Did your parents stick by you through that bid? I know you've been about your dad. My father, he told me, shut up. Don't call him. My mother did, though. She was dead when she can, wrote me, sent cards every Christmas, you know. You can't ask for much. You know what I'm saying?

You know, they're getting elderly. So it's like, what can you ask for? They're getting older. They got a lot out there on their plate as well. So you got to handle what you handle. Had she ever had family members affected by the criminal justice system? Her brothers, my uncles, man. Yeah.

A lot of people, everyone around me did time. I realized that. Elizabeth, New Jersey, when I'm from. We did a lot of time, man. The city did a lot of time. You asked a person about someone from Elizabeth did time. My first time going to Scared Straight, right? most people would be affected by it.

It didn't bother me because when I walked through the doors, it was a brother that I already knew from the street that was a part of the scared straight program. His name was Iquan. Shout out to E, by the way, man. Yeah. And that right there, he's seeing me, oh, man, come here, man. What's going on out there?

Take me out there to the streets, man. So I really wasn't in Scared Straight. It didn't affect me. I walked out of this smile and thinking, damn, man, I was happy I seen E, man. I didn't get scared or scared straight for that matter. And you think this all stems from monetary, from money? It does, man.

It's poverty-stricken. Poverty-stricken to do things to you, man. It will. It will. Because your parents are born into it, right? So if they don't leave you anything, then that's passed down to you. The mentality, the attitudes, everything is domestics. It starts in the house.

So you gain what you gain from your household. And a lot of our households is filled with poverty. But it sounds like your parents at least had good morals, so you weren't raised by like drug-addicted parents or anything? No. They did with and dabber. But more so, we all, I think everyone is raised with parents with morals, you know. Along the way did they have their dis morals?

Did things disarray them and disarrated life? Yes, right? And it was affected. And ultimately, I think that's what affected the children, affected us, you know, our generation. Did people before us? A lot of them was, that was the crack era. You got to look at that, right? So a lot of them was affected by that, through jail, through abuse,

use through use, it happened. Only thing we can do is grow from it and try to learn from it and not repeat the cycle because all that does is bring recidivism. Do you think the divorce had a big impact on you in a negative way? I wouldn't say it had an impact while I'm ready to get married tomorrow,

so that ain't positive, right? You know what I'm saying? My boy, it made me think things through. It did. Because you look at it like, wow, if they couldn't work out, right? You just ultimately know your mother and father going to work out, man.

When they don't work out and you see that fail, you somehow think that is that for me, right? I don't want to go out the same way they went out. So it does make me take my time. I never been married. I do want to get married, right? But you know that's something in the back of your mind. You got to pay attention to the failures before you.

Yeah. How old were you when you got out from that first real bid? 22. What was life like at that point? Different. I've seen a change before me because, mind you all, I was 15, a teenager when I went in. So to come out of there, now you're not. You're considered an adult, right?

21. I was 22. I seen how fast things change. Within those five, six years, things changed a lot, man. They did. And that affected me right there knowing and seeing things change.

One thing that ultimately affected me is my block got shut down. A street where I'm from, Catherine Street, Lisbon, New Jersey, was known for making money. So I just, I always knew in the back of my mind,

that's going to be why I always get money at. So to come home and see that done, I knew things was real then. like, whoa, you got to figure something out. You got to find a way. And that's the whole game now if you look at it, you know, I, and it ain't about what you can do negative no more. It's all about what you can do creativity-wise.

And that's going to ultimately lead to us doing something positive, you know? So if you can find something positive, we'd be right. You won't need the streets. Did you ever try to get a job or anything after that? Nah, I never tried. I think I always was afraid of the fact knowing the answer. You know, that's in the back of my mind. mind, man, I'm a feeling. So I never did. I let that push me in a way not to drive me

away from thinking and feeling depressed, but it motivate me. Like, I know I can't get a job. I'm going to make more than a person with a job make then. Fuck it. I got to do something, right? So what do you end up doing, just straight to drug dealing? Straight streets, man. Everything that the streets bring, you know, you just, you dive into it. And ultimately, whatever it is, it comes. And that's why you feed yourself. You make sense of it, though. That's why they say those people that ran blocks could run boardrooms, man. Straight up. You can because you know how to stay on top of things, right? So it becomes easy when you put a positive thing to it.

Was selling drugs your only way to make money? No, I never was a big drug dealer or drug seller. Like, I was a violent person, man. I love shooting guns and, you know what I'm saying? Like, I knew you got to get money, so I knew how to get money. I was smart of them since. But I was always more of a violent person. Kind of like the henchmen for someone else? Yeah, like not, no, for myself. Like, just who I was around. Yeah, the people I was around.

We was known for that. You know, you got people that's known for making boo-cool money. We wasn't known for that. We was known for getting money. You're going to get money. But ultimately, it was the work we was putting in that we was recognized for. And that wasn't nothing but violence. Like hitting licks and stuff like that?

Shootings, man. Shootings after shootings. I ain't never, I wasn't a big stick up kid either. I ain't never was big on that. I'd do it. But my thing was just shootings, man. It's always been like that. that's what I came up around. A lot of violence on my block. But how do you make money from that?

People pay you? You can. You could turn it into a whole career, right? That's what the extortion come from. So you can, right? The mob been doing it. They continue to do it. So you can. Some people do. Make a career out of it. Now, when you say shootings and violence, is that related to gang activity? Like gang wars? Before a gang. Before I even got into a gang, right? That's what helped me get involved with a game actually, which drew a gang to me because of my street since. I always been like that. Just the people I was around my block in general, it was filled with that. That's all they was. You can get a gun before you get some money. Actual fact, you know what I mean? So that's what was handed to me, fighting in guns. How easy was it to get a gun as a felon, too, coming out that

first time? Easy to get a gun as quick as I can get a condom. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, how bad you need it. And what are the price points on that? It varies what you want, what you're looking for. Just like, you know, the condom, it varies. I'm saying? What, who you're hitting? What type of woman? What you need?

So it does. It varies, man. It's all different price points. You think that'll ever go away? Will that ever change? Nah, man. Because it ain't us that's doing it. I mean, let's be real, right?

And like we taking the boats out of nowhere and coming back from somewhere with the guns. It's all put here for us to just destroy ourselves, man. That's all. We just so smart, we capitalize off anything you handle us. And if it's negative, we're capitalized off negative. If it's positive, we can also capitalize off positive. Did you have rules you kind of abided by, like, you know, not harming innocent people that weren't related to it?

Yeah, no children, no women. That's something I still stand by. Like, no children are women, man. They ain't involved, you know. I don't hit women. I never put my hands on a woman. I ain't with that shit. No children or women.

Now, what about probation? They weren't on top of you? I never go. I ain't care about that shit. Oh, so you got out and you ducked it away. I never went to court or probation. Them two places I ain't going. You can't get me in them buildings for nothing.

So you automatically were hunted down for that. And my mind, I'm released. And my mind, I'm released. So any appointments I may have down the line, you can look forward to me not showing, man. I'm not going that shit. So isn't it just a ticking time bomb at that point? Yeah, that's what it was.

That's what kept me going and always in jail and repeated cycle, recidivism, you know, because I was just under that mind frame and them negative thoughts of doing what I want to do. So what are your 20s look like? How do you go through your 20s? Trying to figure out more of if you're going to go positive or you're going to go back, right? Because you know what you can do.

So I think I chose the wrong decision again. Why? Because it seemed like what I chose the first time was right, meaning I started getting more money the second time around. You know what I'm saying? That's what led to my federal bid. But I started getting more money. And then when I get more money, you get more cockier with yourself, man. You know what I mean?

You get more wiser with your thoughts and with your moods. You get creative. What were you doing? Everything, man. Just being creative, you know what I'm saying? Not trying to just be a drug dealer. I ain't never want to just be that, man. So whatever came with money, licks, hits everything.

That's what you took. How much money were you making? It varies, man. You can make how much you want to make, really. You call it. You want $30,000. There's a store that got $30,000. There's a person that got $30,000.

You know what I mean? But the negative thoughts that generates and feeds that, that's what it come from. You can make whatever you want to make is how negative you want to think. And who are you running with at this point? Wow, boys, man. They're guerrillas, man. It was different, you know what I'm saying? Straight wolves, bro.

That's what they do. That's what they wanted to do, man. It wasn't no remorse. But ultimately, what is we to do, right? What was left for us to do? That's what we were shown. That's what came before us. So we didn't do nothing but just following the ways and the footsteps.

Did you do any prison time between that first case and your Fed bid, or was it straight to the feds? No, I did state time. I did my five. I came home from five years. I went back for seven years. That's when I did my federal time. So it was only two bids total? So what happened to get your federal bid?

My fads, I got too caught up, man. It wasn't right, man. They got tired of my shit. That's what I always like to say. That's when the fed step in or anybody. They just get tired of your shit, man. You're sick of your shit. You're too big for your britches, so to speak.

Did you know that they were on to you? Yeah. Yeah, you get a hint of things because people start talking. And when people start talking, that means the boy's talking, you know? They talk right with him. So I knew from that point on, I was under the stethoscope. I knew the move different. I had to be smooth with my shit, but it can't be.

It was so smooth, man. Were you on a big indictment? A big indictment? Yes, because we had so many people that they locked up. They did a big run in Jersey, man, when the gang took over. Once gangs got infested with Jersey and took over Jersey bad, that's when they start doing their big runs and locked a lot of us up, man. They was doing spurks.

40 people, 30 people, 20 people. I mean, I got locked up by my own, on my own, because where I was from is Elizabeth. They locked up a lot of the other homies from Norke and other places of Jersey. So from Elizabeth, that's why they brought me to Patterson. They had us all in there in Patterson. That's what the federal hold was at in Patterson, Jersey. What were the charges? I got gun, gang violence, gang enhancement.

They're getting about five charges, man. Gun possession. Gang enhancement struck me. How they threw that out there was like, you know what I'm saying? How you could just give a person that? Ultimately, you can just give them that just because you know they're a gang member and they didn't really just throw that at you. That blew me, man, but I learned a lot from it, though.

Tell us today that they, that they, they actually came to arrest you, the feds? What that was like for you? Man, it was a gloomy day, Tuesday morning. And they shocked the shit out of me, man. I didn't even see it coming. I knew they was on me, but I'm just, it was a regular day. I was going to my cousin house early in the morning, too.

I never made it to his house. They followed me from my house, watch me get in the car. Let me go to my destination as soon as I parked, man, got out. I just seen them. They came out of everywhere, man. I tried to run, too. My crazy ass, man, I ain't make it far. me he ain't making it far with them boys not when they got the whole blocks around it

you know what you're going you don't even know that was it just the fbi i or were there other agents it was all fbi agents they had a couple of little regular cops i noticed that was there from the city where that was just in case they was just blocking all streets you know me in case i made it that far outside their barrier but the fence was deep man he had a helicopter he had everything man and it wasn't in playing i'm guessing you never got bail hell no ain't no bail man the feds man dude's be coming on with that bail should I understand that, man. That's different.

I mean, you could be special. I ain't going to say and say it can't happen, but it's seldomly seen. I never got that lucky, man. I ain't never get bail in the face. It's mostly for the nonviolent offenders. Yeah, like, but it's different with fans. They just don't play Bell. They may play a bracelet, right?

They may let you get that off where you sit home with a bracelet. But Bell is suddenly seen. You got to be special where you don't have violence, like you said, a non-violent offender, they have a better chance at getting a bill than a person who is a violent offender. So what happens after you get arrested? That's when you start going through it. You go to the county jail. I went to the county, man.

Everything just changed for me because I ain't like the conditions. You know what I'm saying? I ain't like how they treat you. That's what really stuck out to me the most. You know what I mean? Even though we in jail, I'm still a man. So, you know, with that with that in my mind, certain conditions just don't sit well with you. How are they treating you?

What were those conditions? Bad, man. Just how they talk to you, reckless. I mean, you need to sell all day. You come out, probably cold water for shower. Ain't no hot water. You know what I'm saying? Hot meals.

You ain't going to get no hot meals. Just crazy shit. They feed you anything. Feed you when they want to feed you. Three in the morning, you're getting breakfast. You know what I mean? 10 a.m. You get lunch.

3 a.m. You eat three meals within how many hours, man? That fast, like, you feel? You feel? You feel? So it's like just your treatment itself and it makes you look at things like, now I'm better than this, man.

Yeah, because once they pass the trays, they can sit on their ass and just relax. They don't care. And even if you don't eat it, right? At least they did their job. That's what they say, right? I gave you your food. How much time was your lawyer saying you were facing at that point?

At that point, they were trying to say I was facing 20 years, 20 to 25, but you know, the fairs, they go by point system. So I knew that pride will hold me because, again, my record was bad, but I did so much time as a juvenile that I knew I had my long extent whereas I didn't have short spurts

and going in and out of jail a lot like that. So that helped me ultimately my point system. I only leveled out to about a 70-something, 60-something months. So that's how I was ultimately getting the seven years. You know that feeling when you finally find something that just works? That's exactly how I felt when I first discovered Oregon years ago while I was working at Whole Foods. And I've been using it ever since.

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No, I would never play the feds like that. I went to trial on the feds. You crazy as shit. You crazy as shit, bro. I ain't planned with it like that, man. You crazy as shit, man. Hell no, you know, they got a 98.5 conviction rate. But it's all because people play guilty.

That skews it. That's what it is, right? That's the 99%. I think so. I think if you take all the trials and cases they actually win, I wonder if the percentages would be different. That's something to think about. I ain't playing with the ass, though.

No, I ain't want to play with them, man. I said, nah, I never looked at trial. Like, I think trial is something if you know you're innocent. When I was facing my death penalty in Florida, I was going to trial then. That was my first time I'm about to go to trial too. I knew in my heart I was innocent. So I ain't have no reason not to, right? But ultimately facing the death penalty, most people wouldn't even consider that.

They'd take a plea. But my plea deal was life. I wasn't going to sign life, man. When was that after the Fed case? After I came in from the Fed. So we'll get into that. You know what I'm saying? So where do they send you once you take your plea deal for the seven years

in the Fed's? For the seven years, first place I went through Hazleton. That's the, there was immediate? USP, Hazleton. Oh, you went to the USP? West Virginia. I never went to FCI. Hazleton's a different beast.

Yeah, man. That's my first spot, Hazleton. Well, you were you there? I was in Hazleton. I always look on my arm because she passed. 2007, I went to Hazleton, 2008. Yeah.

That's a different piece there. Because that's 11th, yeah, 2008, February. My birthday's in March. I was there before my birthday. Tell us about that first day in Hazleton. Man, my first day I seen a white boy get killed. He get burnt down. I ain't know you can burn a person down in jail, man.

They gush gasoline all over. Light the floor, got whatever they poured on them, man. And they just lit his eyes on fire. And they stood in front of the cell so he couldn't run out. Couldn't run away. So all I seen was flames going everywhere until you didn't see flames no more. Burned his eyes down, man. But he came on the bus with me.

So that's what blew me. Because they told him, man, get that tattoo off your neck. He had a four-leaf clover. You know in jail, man. Skinheads only, man. Aryan Brotherhood. If you ain't that, you ain't nothing if you're a white boy. So he didn't know because he, you know, following his family tradition.

He thinking, how can I remember? move the tattoo. They only gave him in 24 hours. They burnt his ass down, though, for that, man. Where are the prison guards? They're right there. You know, they being in their cell, man. Looking at porn and shit on their goddamn computer, they ain't doing nothing, man. They minding their business. They're right there, though. They see, but they don't see.

See no evil, hear no evil. That's something they're very good at. Who comes up to you, your first day? Who approaches you? Of course, the blood in the crypt car. Your gang member, man, when you're inside the feds, man. That's the first people going to approach you. You know what I'm saying? bloods and crib man they're gonna see where you at but you'll get noticed by your number on the federal jersey you know that 050 was mine man that's jersey throwing through and through so

when people know you from jersey you're gonna get approached by up north car i mean gang car if you if you're banging they're gonna approach you man see where you at with yours what was the hardest thing to in the fed system because that was new for you being so far away you're so far away man you want visits and shit man you're i'm saying you can't really do nothing. People's got to catch a train and a plane, man. Ain't nobody come and see you, man. That's over. So that's really the hard part. Adjusting like that. Because now you're away from everyone, everybody. And you just basically around people you don't know. You got to get used to that and get

comfortable with that. When was your first time you got into an incident at Hazleton? As soon as I got there, man. You get an incident in Aisleton as soon as you get there. Ain't nowhere around that. Because of the people that's going to approach you. You know what I'm saying? It's a bunch of politics. That's what Hazleton is filled with. bunch of politics on the yard. So when I get there, main number of politics. With the politics,

you got to answer to that shit. You got to. You got to stand up for what's right, for what's yours. So what happened in your situation? In my situation, you know, I'm part of a set

that a lot of people didn't like. You know what I'm saying? And it was a lot of little chit-chat. A lot of chit-chat, man, about the set. And I wanted to answer that shit, though. I wanted to answer it. I got tired of the chit-chat, man.

So it was like, I'm here now. ain't no need for me I can't run for me, right? So let's just face it head on. And the homies approached me with it. So I had to stand up with that shit, man. Stand on that.

Like, yeah, that's what it is. But people just misguided. And that's when it comes into politics because people talk about things they don't know. They talk about people they don't know. And politics get people killed. What were some of the politics at that prison specifically? A lot, man.

Who's real right? Who's a real game? Who's a fake game? And well, that's really what politics? takes be about where it stems from because you know in the feds you ran by cars. You know what I'm saying? So it's always about who's in the car, who shouldn't be in the car. That's where mostly the politics come from, man.

Tell us about the food situation at Hazelton. Oh, man, it's terrible. It's terrible, man. Hazleton is terrible, man. The food is, it's like, it's, commissary your best way out, especially in Hazleton, any penitentiary, really. You want to have that connection with the kitchen. When you can, you know, you move around in trades, you ain't got to eat that shit.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I thought you didn't even eat a single try. I ain't no food, man. You never ate prison food, ever? And, um, U-Fouse, I did. Okay. But after the U-Fouse, nah, I stopped eating that shit. Real talk.

When I got to the county jail, man, I just made it a habit to not want to eat it. Like, I ain't want to eat it. I wanted to try something new. So I pushed the envelope. I mean, I wanted to push the envelope. I wanted to get street food in. I wanted to eat street food. You know what I'm saying?

Eat something good. And, of course, the COs, you watching them get, they little lunch and, you know, You know what I mean? Every day you watching this shit, man. I got tired of watching that. So I know I'm a fly a person, man. I know how to speak to people.

And, you know, it ain't what you say is how you say. So I knew with that in mind, once I approached your CEO, it's just a matter of how you're going to say things in the right time. You got to sense out the time, man, smell it out. And they gave you the street food. Yeah, because I gave him an offer, he couldn't refuse. You know what I'm saying? Like, it wasn't like he just gave it to me.

I brought his food. I approached the officer and told him straight up, man, Listen, what's your favorite food? I like Chinese food. Why? I said, that's my favorite too, man. I see you always eating that shit. Man, I said, man, what's up, man?

Let me get you some Chinese food. He said, huh? How the fuck you're going to get me Chinese food? I said, I got you. Let me worry about that part. You're wondering about the wrong things, man. I said, if I get it up here, you're going to go get it? Now, that's me setting him up right there.

You smell me? He bit the apple, man. Yeah, aye. I say, yeah, what? I ain't going to waste my time. If I get it up here, you can go get it. Yeah. I said, I'm going to feed you and your partners.

He said, all right, let me see this shit then. It took me about two days. I had to figure it out, work it out. You know what I'm saying? I called my cousin, and I haven't worked for me. He went to the Chinese store. You know what I mean? Made it work.

They get the Chinese food. He was shocked when he got the call, too. Or they bought a hundred-scent dollars with the Chinese food, man. He came back about three bags. He said, man, you're fucking crazy, man. I said, man, you told me if I get it, you'll get it, right? He thought I'm going to make it a one-time thing. I started doing that shit every day.

Every goddamn day, bro. He worked five days a week, man. I did that shit every day he worked. No one caught on. Everybody ate. Oh, so you fed everyone? I fed everybody. I wasn't never like that.

You know what I'm saying? I don't move like that, man. I ain't greedy. I like everybody to eat. It's fun of that way. Yeah, I found it when I was in the shoe, I realized that the guards are able to get take out ordered to the, and they'll go get delivered in the lobby.

And then they have whoever's on the tier duty, bring it to them. That's all, man. That's all. When I figured that out, I see that's the system. I knew I was in there. I said, okay, I just got to get it to the door then.

I get it to the door. He can go get it. Now, once he went and got it, the first time around was a rap. Because when he went and got it, he didn't realize the moves I was making behind his back. He's thinking, food. I'm making moves behind the food, though. I have money all inside the Chinese food and shit. You know what I'm saying?

So now I was able to give him and bribe him more. When I got my food, I got about $1,000 inside the Chinese food. So after I finished eating my food, he came back to thank me. I told him I want to thank him. That's when I shook his hand, gave him a couple hundred more dollars. He was this for, man? I said, I need me some goddamn cell phones. I need some goddamn weed.

I need a lot of shit, man. And we're going to keep eating good every day. And that shit that started from there, man. That's smart. I wish we knew about this at the camp because there was only one guard. We could have just asked him, hey, we'll order the food. That's all right. Yeah.

He would eat it. Yeah. And he had a partner, too, so it made it more sweet. And she was a female. Because she was just eating. She was loving it. They could deliver her right to the door. Right to the door.

He was going to get it. No questions asked. They're not going to ask them, right? It's for them. How many guys were on your unit, though, that you had to take care of? On the unit up there in the county, it was about 40-something. I want to say, about 30, 40-something. So you're feeding all of them.

Not everyone. You know what I mean? Not everyone, man. But a lot of people ate. Every day, my homies eat. I mean, the gaming was ate every day. I made sure with that. Now, the non-game members, I did look out for a lot of people.

I did. I just throw you shit, man, getting to eat. You know what I'm saying? Because it was plentiful, we had so much of it. And I pride of myself on everyone eating. I ain't want people to be up there feel no type of way. You know, jealousy, man. That starts a lot of shit. So I had to keep everybody full, but ultimately that even runs out. Were you able to find that same connection in the federal prison once you left the county? Yeah, it's easy, man. Once you get, it's like a, it's a sickness, I want to say, bro. That's what you go for. You know what I'm saying? I had a CEO, every chick A CO chick everywhere I was locked up at. I can say that.

I got honest to say that. Like as a side piece? And people that know me that was locked there with me know that. Always from my youth house, Northern State Prison. Hey. Or I always go out to COs, man. Women. I got a thing with women.

Well, we would hope not. That's nothing else, but, you know? You got to go out. You got to go out. Not other inmates or anything. No, I'm going out of the women, man. And then penitentiaries is hard, though, because they're not around a lot. Like, they're put ugly ones.

one is there on purpose in the pen. So you won't even try to talk to them. Yeah, are there a lot of female staff in the pens? It's not. They do that on purpose. They do that on because they don't want no activity. You know, they don't want too much entertainment. That shit can lead to a lot of rapes.

A lot of things can go on because you're dealing with people in the penitentiary that got life. So they don't have, a lot of them don't have a chance up coming home, you know. So that right there is a different mentality. Were you with anyone notable at Hazleton? Yeah, I was in the same place as a. Whitey Bolger. Oh, Whitey was there? Whitey died.

He got killed there. But years later when they sent him back. He only lasted 24 hours, man. But that was the second time, right? You were there the first time. The first time. He had Tommy. Tommy was there.

Tommy's a big AB, man. He was locked up for forever, man. I was locked up with Tupac Shakur father, Doc Shakur. I did three years with Doc in California. I did three years with him, man. I learned a lot from him, man. Rest and peace, Doc, too, man. He just passed.

So when Whitey was there that. first time he was able to walk the yard, no one gave him problems. Yeah, because no one knew. Okay. That's what was the crazy thing about it, man. You know, he had a way with people because he was tied to the mob. So a lot of things was hitting then, and they were still working with him. But that second time around, he couldn't hide it.

It was out there. By that time, God he had died, everything was already out. Why did they ship you out of Hazleton to your next spot? I got kicked out of there for a riot. You started a riot. Man, I'm always in some shit, man. How did you start a riot? That's what I'm happy I'd change.

I'm sick of this shit, man. I didn't even start it, I want to say. Real talk. What you know, a riot, race war, you're involved. I got hitting the head of locking the sock, man. Yeah, just from just being involved. It's because I'm black. He whacked the shit out of me, too, man.

A good one. A white guy? Put me down, man. That's the first time I've seen stars. I've seen stars, man. He rocked my ass with that locking the sock. And the nurse told me, too, if he had hit you again in the same spot,

you'd win brain dig. It hit me right here. And was that instigated or you were just standing there? Yeah, I'm sitting there. I didn't know it was kicked off already. You know, they, you move in the pen, people move smooth. Everything ain't excited, right? Where it's like you're going to see it coming.

So I'm sitting there watching TV, man. I didn't even notice that the race world was popping off already on the next unit. And it's a lot going on because it's child time lunch. So as people moving back and forth, I'm just watching the videos, paying attention to my surroundings, but I ain't noticed that the white boys already had grouped up. and was discussing it. And we're saying, man, we're about to take off while the door open. So any black that was on the tear, they were just going to take off on it.

It was by me and four of the blacks only. And it just went down, man. I was just sitting there watching the news, man. Videos or something was on TV. And next to you know, I've seen it out of my Perithio. I seen somebody sliding up, and he slid up on the wall real good and just whacked the shit out of me with that lock and the sock. Put me down.

I ain't let it put me down to the floor. It just, it crumbled me, man. I had to get my composure, get my shit together. Whoa. Were you guys outnumbered the blacks? Yeah, at first we was. That's what was crazy because it was lunchtime. So a lot of people left the unit already.

The door was wide open going back and forth. They only knew what they was going to do. So they made sure their numbers were strong before they made their move. Whereas we was already scattered up. People going to child, people in their room, minding their business. Only about four or five people watching TV.

We was out number from the jump. Wow. Yeah. Now in a situation like that, you don't go back on the yard. You're done? Now you're done. Depending on how bad it is too. Like some situations, they could be amended,

but then you got race wars like that. Ain't no amending them. We knew it was over from there, man. They kicked by the side of there. And where did they send you to? I went to Virginia from Hazleton. What's the prison in Virginia? And Virginia, you got USP, Virginia.

It's okay. Oh, that's what it's called USP Virginia? Yeah, it's okay, man. It's okay. I was with your boy, Chad. Oh, Chad Marks is there? Chad was there. You know Chad?

Yeah, Chad watched me put some work in. I got kicked out. out of there. Were you guys able to talk to each other? Yeah, briefly. You know, you see each other. Chad was into his law work hard, man, getting back. Yeah, he didn't really play politics. Nah, he didn't play not one time with that shit. A lot of people didn't think he can pull off what he's done.

Salute the Chad, too. Shout out to Chad, man for putting that work in and getting himself back on the street. He's a real dude, man. Real dude, solid, man. Yeah, he was out there in Virginia with me, man. He was out there for a couple of years for I even got there. He's a little intimidating. And then when you meet him, he's the nicest guy. Yeah, he's a good dude. Solid. He's a solid, man. He showed me all of his prison. and tats, right? Takes a shirt right off and everything here at the podcast. I'm smart too.

He's smart as shit. He helps others. Smart as hell, man. Did you ever work your way down to a medium? I got there to McKean and I only stayed there about 30 days. And then where you kicked back up? I got kicked out of there too, man. What did you do there?

I started riot with the Mexicans, man. I ain't mean to, man. What do you mean to do? I didn't do that shit, bro. It wasn't supposed to go that way. I don't know, like, what the fuck I was thinking I did? I was tripping. I didn't want to be there really.

So I took some small and made it big. I mean, you had to go that like that, though. I could have, we could have talked that out. But just because I seen something that transpiring, I took it like, all right, well, they're going to let it go. Fuck that. I ain't going to let it go. And ultimately, when I put my hands on the Mexican, man, that's a race war.

So is there just racial tension in all of these USPs? That's what loaded with, man, racial tension. And the only way to relieve that tension is through the wars. And that's what's crazy, right? it ain't no other way they can release it. You ain't going to sit down and pay checkers together. You suddenly see people in different races talking and eating together. So it's not much to really lesser attention.

Everything is there just to heighten attention. Is that because of just basic prison politics, or are these individuals just genuinely racist? I think it's a little bit of both. When you mix them type of crowds together, you got something that's not, then you got more than it is. It's going to affect the people that's not.

Because of race war, everybody. got to go. Everybody got to react, right? So even if I'm not racist, you put me in a situation now where I got to act like them racist. This June, the world comes to Los Angeles. Kick off FIFA World Cup 2026 at the FIFA Fan Festival at the iconic

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You're just $10 in kids under 12 We're free. Get yours now at Los Angeles FWC26.com. Did you do a lot of shoe time? Yeah, a lot of lock. I do a lot of shoe time, man. A lot.

What was that like in a USP doing shoe time? I don't think you're getting your Chinese food in there. Nah, you're all day in the cell. I couldn't do none of that shit there, man. You were eating the real prison food, yeah, they had me there. They tore my eyes up there, man.

Because in there, you know, the fares is different than the hole. Your shower is inside yourself. So you don't come out the room. You get what I'm saying? For shit. You come out for wreck on the weekends, an hour.

So you're really doing 24 hours in one inside there in the cell when you're in the federal lockdown in the hole. And I was in a hole a lot, man. A lot of my time, man. Out of seven years, I didn't do at least two and a half years in a hole? And do they only put you in the cell with your own race at that point? Yes. That's one thing about USP you're going to stick to.

They ain't going to do that. Mix you with other people and they don't do that. They're going to keep it solid. I mean, keep you right there where you're supposed to be, around who you're supposed to be. What was your hustle? How are you making money? Man, taking people's shit, man. World up.

Everything that came in there, you know, and the feds just ran by cars. You know what I'm saying? So I used to take people's shit, though, because that was the way to get money, especially in the feds. You could do that. In the penitentiary, you could take somebody's shit, man. You got to rot like that. You know what I mean? You could hustle.

You could make money. We were selling a lot when we was in the pen. So a lot of people would sell a lot of weed. But after that, it's really like, you're just going to find ways, man. Extortion. It's taking people's shit, man. It's trying to make money. Your own kind or different people?

Yeah, because see, the race will start when you do different people. You know what I'm saying? And that's what starts the race war. So sometimes you try to keep it inside pocket. But other times it's like, damn, what I'm going to do? If he got the bag, I'll get that, man. I want that. You got to try your luck.

You're going to do that to your own people that have good paperwork. You're stealing their shit? Now, you don't steal. You take. What do you think that's the same thing is it? No, it's two different things. All right, so give us a difference. Still an ain't tolerated in jail.

Okay. Taking this. So give us an example. I didn't steal it. I'm taking it while everybody watching. Your eyes open. You can see everything I'm doing. And do these people fight back?

That's your choice to fight back. My choice is to take it. I don't care how you fight. I need to walk away with it. You know what I'm saying? You got to have that type of attitude when taking a person's shit. I don't give a fuck if you fight back.

It ain't no fighting back. So what are you looking for in these situations? If the guys small? They might got dope. They might got weed. I need that shit. I ain't getting no visits. I'm way the fuck out here, man.

In California. How the hell I'm going to get a visit? You know what I'm saying? I ain't about to starve. Ain't anybody sending me no money. I'm taking a shit, bro. I'm going to find me someone that's getting some money, making some moves.

You got to get that knife in you. I need that. So are you stealing commissary too? It ain't stealing. You keep saying, stealing. I'm taking. Are you taking commissary? Be used to that.

Take it. It ain't stealing. You can't steal. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. See, you come from a vibe, man, when people were stealing this shit. It's a difference. I come in penitentiary.

And it's still in. So are you taking commissary to you? Yes, you take that shit. FCI, they're still, man. But are you only going for a big bag? Like, and when are you taking it? And, man, not only just commissary. You got kitchen workers.

You got, I used to take the kitchen workers. Like, what I mean, take it, you own, this rob a person. You know, you sit them down, have a conversation with him. I'm put you on payroll. Well, this is what you're going to do every week. You're putting him on payroll. Yeah, he definitely put me on one from them. That's not taking either, right?

That's taking. How if you're paying the guy? Because I'm taking everything that you're bringing to this unit. You see what I'm saying? But I'm going to leave you something on the table. So you're not fucking them over. Nah, never. Why?

You don't have to. It's enough of it, right? For everyone. I just want what I want. That's all. You got a whole pie. So maybe taking... I'm going to take it two slices.

Maybe taking's not the right word. I feel like it seems negative. That's why you take it. Anything negative is taken, right? It ain't giving. It's positive. It's giving. It's taking, man.

That's the way to survive. At least they're making money, you know? It's not like you're like taking them and leaving them with nothing. See? At least I'm working stuff out, right? Yeah. But I guess they don't have a choice because you're going to put the blade in them. You got to come out.

So take your little portion of what I'm leaving you, man, and that works for you. But that's survival. That's how you hustle. The white boys are afraid of people like you at the FCIs. Well, see, white boys. When you guys work your way down. FCIs, y'all cover it. Well, not by the good.

There would be a lot of guys that work their way down from the pen. you know, a guy like you goes down, a lot of fresh, you know, you guys smell the blood in the water. You bring your ass in there, that's your ass, man. That's probably you only lasted 30 days. I got to that. I wasn't supposed to be there, man. I got there. It was like college.

You can't put me in an environment like that. You know what I'm saying? Certain things allow that I don't go for, me personally. Like you got people that okay with gaming was being gay. You get what I'm saying? I can't go with that shit. So a lot of places I was getting in and going. And I was getting kicked out of because of that.

I'm a bus. I'm going to tear your ass up. You got to go. I got to go. I can't live here. They want to keep you here. They can, but I can't be around this shit. And that's why I left out Virginia where Chad was at.

Got into it with the D.C. car I did. Road up. They're brutal. Yeah, they is, man. But you had one of them DC dudes that's trying to act like he's a game, but he was gay. That ain't accepted. And then you know some places, homo is accepted by some cities. They don't look at it like that, right?

and some cars and some places. But then you got doors where it's not. I'm from the side where it's not, man, so it don't mix. You can't put me around that shit. And make me accept it, nah, I'd rather just leave the whole environment. I just leave. I ain't the type of sit around in jail and complain. You know what I mean?

You could change it. Leave, motherfucker. Blow this bitch. That's what we call it. You don't want to be here, blow it. What's stopping you? But to complain every day, that's a sucker way out, man. Make them put you on the bus.

Go to a whole different institution. You got to deal with this shit. that's what I was good at. So you didn't tolerate that booty bandit stuff? I ain't with that old fuckboy shit, man. I mean, that shit ain't right, man. But you got people that glorified and make it seem like that's all jail is about.

You go to jail, everybody in jail gay. Everybody did. You get your ass killed thing in that going to jail too. Because you're going there with that mentality, you get killed. You're going to play with the wrong person, man, and disrespect the wrong person. But I ain't with that booty band of shit.

Nah, man, man. We stand on man time. I'm on man time. Hands down, throwing through. You know what I'm saying? I'm on man time. You ain't knowing that time. Your ass got to get it from around me, man, straight up. Now, how do these, like, white nerdy guys that go to the pens,

like the Sam Bankman Freeds of the world or, like, guys that do fraud and end up there? How do they survive? I did some time with, what's my man? I was locked up for the scam, for the Ponzi scheme. Bernie Madoff? Bernie Madoff. You were in the pen there with Bernie? Yeah, I was with him.

And before he went to where he was at, they sent him to the FCI. Yes, yeah. Before they sent him there, I was in the hole. Then we went to transfer a holdover in Oklahoma And that's why I actually was there With like two weeks with him Before they put me in a hole You talked to him?

Yeah, we played Scrabble That was his favorite thing Scrabble You played Scrabble Bernie Wade off? Yeah, I would never forget that too Real shit But he's smart, man

I wanted to challenge him He said, if you want to talk to me Let's play Scrabble He loved to just watch Seeing the News and play Scrabble So when I sat down with Scrabble Man kicked my ass foot fast man He was spelling words

I didn't even know existed Was this before he got diagnosed us with cancer. Yeah, man. That was before. This was when he was in good health. You know what I'm saying? He was still,

but he was just Bernie. Everybody was treating him with the utmost respect. We knew his health was kicking in, but he didn't show it. So a guy like that, no one's giving a hard time to? Nah, man, that's, no,

Bernie will mean no harm. He ain't do no harm on the street to no one, man. He took money. You know what I'm saying? Let the people who he took the money from deal with that, right? But to us is like, that's Uncle Bernie, man.

He's cool as shit, man. Cool dude, man. He ain't do nothing, just want to play Scrabble, man. Wow. Yeah, he's cool dude. Everybody he's humble. Love to watch CNN News

and love to play Scrabble. I challenged him to a game with Scrabble. I said, man, come on, man, let me kick your eyes. And he kicked your ass. He could take me. He sat down, man. He put some words up.

I had to get the dictionary out. Oh, Bernie, man. What year did you get released from the feds? I went to say I came home. 2007. I went to Hazleton, 2008. I want to say I came home, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 2014, 15. Yeah.

What was your mentality getting out at that point? It was different, man. From the feds, it was different. It was different. It was more so of a, I got to make it now, you know, do something different. You know what I'm saying? You got to do something different, man. Because the corruption inside of a jail is what helped me realize that.

It's a system that, it's a rust belt system. So if you fall for it, you can actually get so far behind that you won't have a life. It'd be hard for you to even obtain a life. I ain't want that to happen to me. So when I came home from the feds, that really made me understand you got to build you a life, you know? You can't be out here bullshit in the streets, man. You're going to get the same thing if you keep doing the same thing, right? So that made me want to try something different, man.

What did you end up trying? Fill me. I start writing. I end up writing me a book, Level 7. That's out on Amazon now. I just started being creative, you know. I started doing films, making up reality shows, creating films, short stories, anything that can show my experiences from what I lived through.

How do I utilize that into an educational tool where people can actually learn from it? Right? Like Scared Straight Program, I didn't learn from that. But how do I put that into a form where my peers can learn from what I went through? And that's what made me come up with Level 7. Were you seeing your probation officer or were you on the run again? I know. Yeah, I didn't know.

So you weren't tactically on the straight and error then, right? I completed parole for the first time with the feds. They had parole then? Yeah, federal parole. Or supervised release. Release from the feds, you automatically get that. Supervised release, right? Supervised release.

You can get two years, five years. They gave me two years. Okay. But Dame Dash helped me beat that. Honestly, him and my brother Jay Black, who I just showed you on the phone. Yeah. They helped me beat that, man. Shout out to them for that.

The charges? No, just getting through parole. because parole like a charge to me, you know, like one false move, the eyes going by the jail. They stayed on me, kept me with positive things in front of me, ties to complete. So that helped open my eyes and brought on my horizon, moving around a lot, meeting different people, networking,

just want to just proceed and positive more. And I seen that could happen, it made me want to just do more to make more happen. Was it hard to separate yourself from people from your past life? No, I wanted to. I wanted to. I know what that leads to. I mean, I don't peer pressure,

don't apply to me, man. That's shit for the week. You know what I'm saying? I do what I want to do. I do what's right for me. So I never looked at it like, I knew they're going to do ultimately what's best for them too. A lot of them ain't do the time with me. You know what I'm saying? They ain't go to places I went. A lot of people go to jail. They didn't go to penitentiary.

They go to FCI. I ain't have those perks, right? A lot of people have, man. My path was different. My path was hard. And then I thought maybe my path is harder because my calling is harder. And it's higher. So I took that path, man. How'd you end up in Florida after that?

I wanted to go down there and try something new from Jersey. And then I had family down there. Going down there just visiting them, spending time with them, that made me want to stay down there. But then that came with my negative thinking. I didn't leave that back in Jersey, man. And I shouldn't have brought that with me, right, to Florida. When I brought that with me, I got the results.

Why do you think that negative thinking popped back up after you were trying to do so well back in Jersey when you got out. On money. Like you were looking for money, you didn't have any? I seen the money that could be made. You know what I'm saying? That's what got me, really. It wasn't the lack of.

It was what I was looking at. So me looking at it is like, wow, man, I need to do something with this. I mean, that just made me just, in regards to everything I went through or just overcome. I said, now I can make some shit happen. I want to make it happen. So I chose that. What happened in Florida that got you jammed up again? They put me, they locked me up for kidnapping in Florida.

They tried to get me with everything under the sun, man. Gang leadership, gang enhancement. I set for seven months. I fought that, man. Federal or state? The state tried me. I was hoping and praying the feds didn't pick that up, man. Word up.

But I was on federal parole at the time. You know what I'm saying? So the fares was giving me a chance to deal with it. Like, all right, we're going to see if you're guilty. You know you're innocent until you're proven guilty. So the fairs really said, would let you stay there deal with that shit. Then you come answer to this.

And I beat it. So once I beat it, I went to the fairs and they just gave me two years supervised release. Another two years. Yeah. They said, take another two years. We do that. Because I ultimately stayed seven months. So I maxed out already.

But I had to come see them. You know what I'm saying? So you went to trial on that case? Yeah, I took that in Florida to trial. Don't ask me why, man. I don't know what I was thinking. I know what I was thinking. I wasn't going to sign a plea dealer.

Like, you ever, you'll imagine that? You get locked up. Imagine this. Put yourself in this, right? And you go to court and your plea deal is life. That's not a plea, man. How do you sign that? You sign your life away, right?

You do this now because that's your plea? You agree to that? I couldn't wrap my mind around it. So they never gave me a way out. It was either that or go to trial. I got a truth's trial. I ain't got that much sucker in me, man. Just bow down and take life.

You're not offering me a number. you're offering me a letter. That's a big difference. That woke me up and said, nah, nah, I can't take that. I couldn't even sign

for 20 years. I mean, you're not often, you offer me a letter, life. You know, it's two different lives. In state,

life is 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9. And the feds when you got life on your paperwork, your release date, say, deceased. Most people don't even know that. That's the difference. Right there.

You got a chance when you got a number. And the state, your release date is say 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, a bunch of nines. That's your chance. You got a number. But in the feds, they let you know you got no chance, man. Your release date say deceased.

Scyth is stamped in red ink. You know what I mean? That's different. When you see that, see a person paperwork, and actually read that for yourself, their release date is deceased. That hit you different, man. That shit hit different. What were your charges that you took to trial?

Was there a lot? Kidnapping, extortion. attempted murder, murder, gang, violence. It threw about nine charges at me. And you beat every single one of them, not guilty. Not guilty. And I beat it because I wasn't at the scene. They was trying to place me at.

That's just, you know, technical difficulties on their behalf, right? I had witnesses that stated where I was at. I had alibos. I had old women that was at the scene that stood up. Like, he's six four, six three. I can't miss him. I mean, he wasn't there. I didn't see him.

And that helped me ultimately. They believe in these, you know, law-abot citizens. She's 60 years old what she got to lie for, right? A white woman. And she kept the real. She said, I didn't see him there at the scene. And that was a witness for you or for the prosecution? I was a witness for the prosecution, actually.

But she told the truth. Her car got hit in the process. And so she said that when my car got hit, it allowed me to get out to look in the back and see. She said, I seen everything. I didn't see that tall black man. I wouldn't have missed him. She said, I sent the people running away from the scene

and the shooting and all of that. I didn't see a black, tall black man. I definitely didn't see him. And that alone just got me my release. They didn't want to further it. That was at the disposition before you go to trial. You know, you have that before you get the trial. They want to see what you got.

Let your cars in the team. Oh, so this is before the actual trial. So you didn't go in front of a jury. They didn't go. They want to go. That's what shocked me because I had about two weeks left, had a trial date, preparing for it. And my lawyer came to see me.

He's like, man, you ready? I said, man, ready as I'm going to get. Shit, man, two weeks left. He said, now you're ready to go home. I said, fuck you mean, ready to go home, man. You're like, yeah, man. After that disposition, you know, prosecution don't want to further it. They don't think it'd be wise to spend state tax players money

and they got their own witness, Satan, that you wasn't at the scene. So that saved me, man. Gave me another chance at life. I'm shocked they didn't want to try to give you like some bullshit plea deal at that point just to get a conviction. Life. I never forget that. They offer me life. Take life. If not, state seeks the death penalty, Your Honor. That was the exact words. The state seeks the death penalty. So someone had died in that? Someone didn't die in that. Oh, there was no death. It was just...

Attempted murder? They gave me attempted murders. You know what I'm saying? It was multiple attempted murders. But no one died. But they couldn't get me and none of that. They could give the death penalty for that? Man, kidnapping is what I'm going to be. start the death penalty, you know? By lethal injection, you can get that. Yeah, kidnapping is a federal offense. So when you got out of there, are you like, give me the fuck out of Florida now?

Man, I don't want no pars of that shit, man. It's nice. The sun is nice, right? Get me away from here, man. I got to go. You know what I'm saying? I need to go. I need to go, man.

I couldn't do that shit. Hell no. It was too much. To beat that, people looking at me like, man, how the hell you beat that? Their conviction rate itself down there is 90%. I'm like, man, my lawyer told me your best thing. Get your hell on, man.

For real. He said, get on, man. You know what I'm saying? Don't even play with it, man. Go. You had a public defender or a paid lawyer? Hell no, man. I had a paid lawyer, man.

I could not be playing with that. You've always had a paid lawyer every case? Always. I ain't going to say always in juvenile court. I did have public defendants a couple of times. That's different. Yeah, I was young. But once I got elder, man, I learned how to play the game. You know what I'm saying?

I wasn't going to be stupid. and be a dummy once they caught you. You can do stupid things outside, but you better smart enough, right, along the line. You think it makes a difference? In certain cases, not in federal. Not in federal. You can hide Cochran.

If they want your eyes, they can get your ass. You know what I'm saying? I'll get for who you got, man. That ain't going like that in feds, man. And most public defenders and the feds are private attorneys too. Yeah, they have their own practices. Now, a state different. They're working with the state.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's why I think that there's no separation. It's crazy. None whatsoever. It ain't nothing whatsoever, man. They don't care. They say it's not, but it is. But you see it for your own hours, right?

Like, whoa, man. I would never get a public defender in the state. I would do feds. Yeah. Why? It don't make sense. That shit don't add up to do that. It's taking your money.

Then they're going to take your time. But it's nothing against the individual public defender because I've had some great ones on the show. I think it's just the system that it's against. What is Stan's Fuller. It's a Rust Belt system. Yeah. Absolutely.

You're right. It's a Rust Belt system. It's nothing that can be fixed, right? It's been going so long. There's no fixing it. When something is that broke, man, you just get a new one. And ultimately, we can't get a new system, so you just got to get a new life. You know what I mean?

You just avoid that system. That's the best results for us. So when you got that new chance at life after getting off for that, did- shout out to Nick Madisonini, my lawyer. Oh, man. Wonderful lawyer. You ever go to Florida and get in trouble in Tampa, Florida. Get Nick Madisonini.

Nick, if you're out there, man, I shout to you out, my brother. I never forget you. Thank you, man. You help me be the death penalty. Help me get my life back. Nick Madisoni, Best lawyer in Tampa, Florida. Was that what it took you to change your life around that incident?

Yes, because, you know, the things that were spoken about me, how they represented me, the state, prosecution, how they looked at me. They were simply using all my jacket, all my experiences in the streets, all my paths. And that's when I wanted to just change. man because I realized that's all people think about me right I didn't want to die and that's how you in me that's how you write me off nothing good I'm more than just that I know it was more to me than just that right it's more to me than just what they're depicted me to be but I had to show them that

so with the second chance I took my opportunity how does it make you feel that some people don't get that eye-opening legal situation that makes them go down the correct path in life it's unfortunate man if that's that's probably less of a word that I should use but it's unfortunate because everyone deserves that you know should get that that fair shot right to be born into poverty and then to live through poverty and to face consequences because of poverty man that'd drive any person insane did you get back in the film when you moved back to jersey yes that's when I took that approach to just take it more serious. I already had the connections with Dane and with my brother, Jay Black.

So I just wanted to further it, you know, take it more serious. It started with me learning. Once I learned more, then I can have different conversations with people and ask different things and learn more. Did you have temptations at all to get that fast money? It's fun. It was so much fun, you know? I didn't, man. I didn't even go live, bro.

Didn't make it money too. When you make money with it, that helps, right? It's versus not making no money. then I think I would have been tempted, but I was making money from the jump when I jumped in it because of who brought me in the game, Dame Dash. So he put me in a nice situation to understand this is how the filming business goes,

this is how you make money from it. So I always stay within them lines of things and I was able to see residual. So it never gave me, you know, a sense of damn, man, this shit ain't working. I always was motivated by it because I was learning more, earning more, and I had something positive in front of me. Did you ever have closure with your parents? Yes, my father, he's facing fighting cancer as we speak.

He got cancer, man. I took that opportunity, you know, to speak to him and let him know, man. We can't fix what's done is done, right? But moving forward, I understand now. I'm mature now. I'm a grown man. I understand now versus then, you know, judging him, not knowing his life and how he came up. I think a lot of young black men, we do that now.

We blame our parents for poverty, for things we don't have, but a lot of us don't understand that our parents didn't have it either. We got more than our parents. Now, if you look at it, right? We got social media. We got a lot of different things. They didn't have that. So, of course, if you don't have nothing, nothing from nothing leaves nothing.

If we can wake up and see that more, I think that'll lead to less blaming than just being more creative. Do you think those violent tendencies ever go away? Now, a dog never loses his bark or his bite, man. You know what I'm saying? So I don't want to lose certain chinks in my armor. When you say go away, I learned how to tame them. So I know how to make them go away.

I know how to make them stay there. I know how to turn them off, turn them on. You know what I'm saying? It's a part of who I am. But self-destructive behavior is most important to me. So that's why I learned detain my attitude. Because ultimately, they hurt someone else. You have to hurt you so.

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equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. terms at mintmobile.com. First, you just don't see it that way. But you hurt yourself first, before you even hurt the next person. And something you said earlier about you think now about the consequences.

Got to think it through, man. Yeah, because it's bigger than me now, right? I have a family. I have to think about them when before it was just me. I ain't have to worry about none of that. So I got to think about things now. Think it through. You know what I'm saying?

How are you going to lead by self-destruction? That won't get no one, nowhere. What's the typical day like for you now? Wake up, first thing I do is pray. I'm up at 4.m. I can't sleep long. My little brother, he got killed due to street violence, man, almost three years ago. That happened 5 a.m. in the morning.

That fucked my nerves up bad. To where there's a lot of times now I don't even sleep past 3, 4. I'm up, I pray. After praying, I write, work out. After work right now, I'll go back to writing, you know. On filming, it's a lot of writing. That's what it's basically ball down to writing. What's something you wish you could tell your teenage self before you ever got into trouble?

Put the guns down, man. God damn. Pick up a goddamn book. Right? Yeah, man, that's something I wish I would have heard more, man. Put the guns down, man. Pick up a goddamn book. Go do something with yourself.

That sort of thing. But I would do that now to any T-Danger. I can't do it to myself, but I can utilize the platform, realize my experiences, Level 7 book, and that's what it's about, aimed at stopping youth from gun violence, gang violence, and recidivism. Well, brother, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. Thank you for having me, man.

You did a great job sharing your story, and it's really going to help some kids that are, they need to hear this. That's what they need to hear. It's what it's about. They listen to people who actually lived it, right, and who done it. No, nobody wants to hear something for someone if you ain't actually live it.

If you live through things, I think that thinks the best thing. teacher experience well let's go get you in an orange jump suit let's do it man