Locked In with Ian Bick - Inside Juvenile Prison — A Guard’s Shocking Story | Nick Mattice

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

Nick Mattice thought he was starting a safe, steady career in juvenile corrections — but what he witnessed behind bars would change his life forever. From inmate assaults to shocking policy failures, Nick pulls back the curtain on a broken system few are willing to talk about. This is the raw truth about working inside a juvenile detention center. #JuvenileJustice #CorrectionsOfficer #InsideJuvenileHall #SystemFailure #PrisonReform #InmateStories #YouthInPrison #CriminalJusticeExposed Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Get 50% off the Magic Mind offer here: https://www.magicmind.com/IANB50. #magicmind #mentalwealth #mentalperformance Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00:00 Inside the Dark Side of Juvenile Corrections 00:03:26 A Career Change Journey: From Gym Teacher Aspirations to Working with Disabilities 00:07:20 Getting Hired at a Correctional Facility 00:10:58 Motivations for Working in High-Paying Jobs 00:14:56 The Importance of Staff Qualifications and Physical Fitness 00:19:20 Managing Control in Correctional Facilities 00:23:13 The Challenges Faced by Kids in Gangs 00:27:18 Handling Contraband and Snack Currency in Juvenile Detention 00:31:09 Dynamics within Juvenile Facilities 00:35:13 Mentorship and Success Stories in Juvenile Facilities 00:39:21 Ineffectiveness of Juvenile Detention Centers 00:43:43 Challenges of Juveniles in Adult Prisons 00:48:05 The Importance of Transparency in Facilities 00:51:55 Transitioning Away from a Hard-Nosed CEO Image 00:56:09 Shifting Perspectives on Child Rehabilitation 01:00:40 Navigating a False Accusation in a Small Town Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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265 pounds, 16 year old kid. And we're tussling on the ground. He gets me on the ground. And he actually jumps on my back and drops his elbow into my spine. Nick Batisse thought he was stepping into a stable government job until he saw the system from the inside. From inmate fights to broken policies, he exposes the dark side of juvenile corrections and how it changed him forever. Nick, welcome to Locked in, man. Thank you, and I appreciate you having me. Yeah, I appreciate you coming, man. Thanks for being the listener of the show.

You were just telling me how the pee-wee Hells Angels episode is what got you on to us. Yeah, I was watching some TikTok reels and I saw the interview. I was like, wow, I really got to check out this podcast. So started listening religiously. That's so cool. Was it the clip where he did like the bubbling sound effect on the road? Who would have thought, you know? That did like 20 million views.

Oh, wow. I think it's because he just perfected the bubble. Yeah. He was quite a character. Are, like, crime, prison shows, like, have interest to you normally? Not really. You know, spending the time in my profession that I did, I kind of avoided, you know, watching any of those shows. I did start watching, you know, the 60 days in, locked in kind of piece.

So those were interesting seeing the difference of what I experienced versus what other people were going through. Did you like 60 days in? I did. I think there were cool parts of it. Other parts was like, you know, some jails are all dependent on who is there in the politics. things that happen. I've never watched a full episode. I've just always seen like the clips on TikTok and stuff. I don't know if I would actually do 60 days in there. Yeah, it looks, it looks interesting. But from a, you know, correctional standpoint, I don't know. Maybe I could

stay in there for 60 days locked into a jail cell since you worked at. Yeah, they do have guards that go on in cops. I've had a cop that was on the show and I've had guards that were on the show too. Yeah, I watched the one the interview you did with the Rikers. Quell. Yeah, and he killed it. I mean, he was fantastic in there. Yeah, he ruffled a lot of feathers because he has a very distinct, passionate opinion on inmates and whatnot. Yeah, absolutely. So, which is interesting to see because not all officers give that perspective.

Yeah, for sure. Where did you grow up? So I grew up in a small town in New York called Stanford. Everyone confused it for Stanford, Connecticut. Very small rural area up in the upper Caskell area. What did your parents do for work? So my dad was a logger and had a firewood business. He worked for himself for many, many years.

And my mom was a manager of a convenience store or a gas station. And what was life like growing up? You know, we were pretty middle class for the area. You know, pretty straightforward. Everything K through 12 was in one school building. So very small rural area. Everyone knew everyone there. You were friends with the neighbor and the neighbor knew all of your business.

What kind of kid were you? I would say loud, brash. really big into athletics. So, you know, one of the kids that really pushed the envelope a little bit with rules and boundaries trying to see what I could do and how I could test other people to see what I could get away with. Where do you think you got that from? I think my dad, you know, my dad instilled in me really early on, you know, be a man, be responsible, but beat your own drum pretty much.

So that was kind of my motto through life. And did anyone have any experience in law enforcement in your family? No, no one at all in my family had ever had anything to do. with any type of law enforcement or anything like that. What were you thinking of getting into for your career as a kid? So when I was growing up, I always thought the best thing for me would be gym teacher. So physical education, went to college for one year at Colboskill, which is like the big area near us. Went for one year and decided it's not for me.

So quickly left that. And then what happened after that? So I started working. I've always had a passion for working with adults and children with intellectual disabilities. So I started working at a job about 35 minutes away from my small town because there's really no employment opportunities in that area. There's like three gas stations, a couple grocery stores there. And that's where I started working with adults with intellectual development disabilities. So you go down that path.

How does someone like yourself end up in working in corrections? So five years into that job, I decided that that job wasn't working for me just because of the pay rate, It's not a very high paying job. I had a couple disagreements with people on how I thought things would work. Again, me kind of pushing back on the system. And I found myself unemployed at that point. In my area, there's only, like I said, minimal opportunities. Either you work at the pill factory, which was a manufacturing plant there, or everyone

heard of the boys' school. And the boys' school was a juvenile correctional facility located in South Corright, which is about ten minutes from where I live. And what did you know about it at the time? So all I really knew is I had a couple of friends, fathers who worked there. It was a military academy and they would actually come to like the local parade. So like the flag day parade and you would see the juveniles all dressed up in their uniforms and they would march and they had a drum band. So it was like a drum line that they would go through with all the CEOs.

And I'm like, man, that looks really cool. And that's pretty much all we knew of it. And what kind of kids were housed there? So I really didn't know who they were or what it was. When I first started, I kind of got a glimpse of that. So between the ages of 13 and 21 and various different crimes. And I've had kids from petty theft to unlawful possession of marijuana all the way up to their third count of attempted murder. Now tell us about the application process and what made you finally decide to apply and what all that looked like.

So I decided I'm going to try this out. I contacted my friend's dad who said, yes, this is a great opportunity. And I sent in the application. So state job, all you have to do for this juvenile facility is apply through the state job website. There's no civil service exam. You just wait. So I applied and I waited about two months and I didn't hear anything back. I was like, okay, let me try again.

I called, yes, we're reviewing your application and I didn't hear anything. So I was driving past the facility one day. I was actually going to the DMV, and I was like, let me just stop in, see if I can talk to someone. So I happened to show up. I was in basketball shorts, a T-shirt, and flip-flops. And I just go to the front desk, and there's a gentleman sitting there, and he asked who I was. I said, well, I applied for a position here. I kind of don't know what's going on.

I've been waiting to hear from someone. And he looked me up and down and said, give me one minute. So he goes and gets the administrator, and the administrator tells me, we're actually doing a job fair right now. So how about you go sit on this unit? There's about 50 people there. We'll get you in for an interview. And I walked in and there was 50 people all dressed head to toe with suits and ties and dresses. And here I am in shorts and flip-flops. And since I wasn't on the schedule, I was the last person to go. So I sat there for three hours watching everyone go. And the person that was interviewing was actually from the state of New York. And she asked if it was okay that I was waiting. I said,

Absolutely, because I'm going to have the last impression as the last person that you meet. And out of that group, I was the only person to actually get hired. Wait, there was that many people looking for a job in this correctional facility? Yeah, it was very packed. Wow. I feel like that's unheard of. Yeah. Normally there's hiring issues.

Yeah, and they passed on 49, 50 of the other candidates, and I was the only one hired from that group. And this is just for like the beginner's entry level position there? Yes, yep. Is the pay good? Yeah. So for the state, you can start off as what they call us youth division. vision aids back then. That's what they call the CEO term because, you know, correctional officer for youth doesn't really sound great. If you're a YDA-2, you started off in

the booth, so you were a camera watcher. And I think that was around $52, $53,000 a year. And if you were on the floor working as a CEO, you were a YDA3, started off at $58,000 a year. So for that area, that's very high income there. Plus benefits. Absolutely. State benefits, retirement, all those things. So tell us what happens after you get hired. What does the training process? look like? Well, when I first initially got hired, I started a week after they called me, and they weren't having an academy for two weeks. So they brought me in just a kind of shadow. And the first time I came in, 7 o'clock in the morning, I was dressing a polo in jeans and sneakers.

And someone met me at the gate and said, all right, you're going to go down to this unit. And I walked down into the unit, and there was one female staff member there working unit, and I didn't see any kids. So I was kind of confused on what the hell is going on, why am here. And I got to talk to the staff member. It was on an isolation unit for a kid. So this kid had been in a fight with every single staff member, every kid there, and they were on an isolation unit by themselves, and you were supposed to watch them. I was thinking, what the hell am I getting myself into with one kid? Well, he slept until 1 o'clock in the afternoon. He came out at 1, use the phone, used the bathroom, went back to sleep. Didn't even had an interaction with him.

The second day I come in, there was a new staff. So I had walked into the unit and said, oh, hey, I'm Matice because everyone goes by last names there. And she looked at me and said, shut the hell up, go sit in the corner and don't fucking talk to me the rest of the day. And I am just confused as all hell what's going on. So I went and sat in the corner. It turns out someone had called in the morning. She got mandated from the overnight. So she was really pissed.

So she finally, after like four hours, came over and started talking to me, letting me know a little bit about. what I was doing, who I was. We grew up in the same rural area. And that was, you know, my first couple of days were just sitting on an isolation unit with this one kid who was, you know, really in trouble with everyone else. Tell us about what you expected the first day to be like versus what it actually was like environment, the people, the coworkers, everything from your perspective. So I knew previous history about the facility that it was a military organization. and everything there was everyone who worked there was former military. You had to have military experience to work there.

And they did kind of a transition period with a new commissioner where they were getting away from the military concept. So I thought I was going to go into a military compound. You know, everyone stands there at parade rest, we do PT, and it was so lax and loose. No one really paid attention to who I was there. I was kind of just a quiet person in the corner. And I came to find out later the reason. why I was even hired was they had a saying that they hired by the pound. So since I was six foot five, 285 pounds, I fit the bill for someone that should work at that facility. It had nothing to do

with my credentials or my background working with people with disabilities previously or anything to support these young kids that I was going to be working with. Yeah, were you there just because you genuinely wanted to help individuals? No, no. I was there because out of the area, it was the only high-paying job where I could make money. And I really had no idea what my thought process was going in there. I was kind of open-minded to it. I had seen prison TV shows and things like that, but I had no idea what I was walking into. And I was just hell-bent to go in there and figure it out and make a good living because in that area, I think the average income is around $27,000. So I was making double that at this place, being 23 years old.

So making that kind of money in that area was definitely the motivating factor for me. Do you think there would have been an angle to help individuals if you had that mindset? I think eventually my mind transitioned into that, but it took me years. You know, I originally came in just for the paycheck, and that's how a lot of the people were there. But you see the recidivism of the people keep coming back, and you see the cracks in the system that allow these kids to continue over and over again having the same issues, and there's no help or support for them. What were the biggest cracks that you saw in the system? Definitely the aftercare program. So, you know, it's juvenile probation where these kids would go back into the same environments

around the same people that got them into these problems. And a lot of times talking with these kids, they took charges for other people. So if you have an adult that you're hanging out with that gets in trouble, well, you're a youth. So you take it. It'll get expunged off your record. So you see kids just kind of take the hit for other people. and then the aftercare system is so overwhelmed that you have these youth that need that guidance and support for an aftercare worker, and they're just not there. It's once a month maybe you check in, and you see the kids just continue in that same environment around the same people, make those mistakes.

So you did the shadowing for a week or two before the training started. What was the training like? So training was down in a small town called Red Hook, New York. It was at the Parker Training Academy. It was a six-week-long program where you learned all about the different gang activity you're going to see. You learned about physical restraint pieces, how to de-escalate situations instead of amping them up, how to tell for trauma-informed care, which was, to me, I knew a little bit about it with working with people disabilities, but you never really think about it with youth.

So you learn through all the processes for six weeks, and then there's a graduation piece where then you go, back to your facility to work. And were there any hard obstacles in the training, any physical fitness aspect? Nope. So there's no physical you have to do. The most strenuous piece of your training is the physical restraint piece. So there was no PT every day. You know, I hear other people who work in adult corrections.

You know, you have to run a mile, push-ups, set-ups. There was none of that there. So it was really your physical fitness was very limited and they didn't really care. what that was. Why do you think that was like that? I think they think when you're working with juveniles, they think of them as children, right? And some of the kids that I worked with were six foot seven, 260 pound grown adults. I mean, they're 16 years old, but that's an adult. So they didn't put a real emphasis on physical stature when it came to keeping people safe within the facilities. Are they teaching you or are they focusing

on the psychological behavior of these kids? Yeah, they talked a lot about, you know, trauma with their background and their history, trying to understand kind of their thought process and the development piece, which I thought was interesting, but there's a big saying that when you go to a facility, well, that's what you're taught. This is what we do here. So quickly when I got back, that training kind of just went right out the window. So if they're not really focusing on the physical aspect, do you think that they should be having some more prerequisites for the staff that work there with like a psychology type background? Absolutely. You know, I went to the academy with six people for my facility, people that were already previously hired.

And the one thing I was thinking of is one of the guys I was working with, how do they not do a psych evaluation to work here? Because this guy is absolutely off the wall. Like he is a nut to make sure that you have to pass a actual physical just to be able to work there. Because at the end of the day, I'm coming in as a new staff. I may be physically fit, but my partner isn't. that person has to have my back. And if shit goes sideways, I need to know that you can actually do something. And at one point, you know, very nice guy we hired.

He was 6'8, he was 6'46 pounds. That's crazy. And I'm standing there, what the hell are you going to do if shit hits the fan? And sure enough, he was there with me when shit hit the fan. So that's where that physical endurance, that physical stamina of the capabilities definitely needs to be in place there. happened in that situation? So I was probably two and a half years in and we had a good amount of staff on. So there was five of us. I was the second most senior staff there. I worked with another staff who had been there for I think 17 years. Everyone said he looked like Peter Griffin.

He had the glasses, the smile. He was kind of a pushover. And, you know, my role, and we can get into it a little bit later about how I started was the hard ass. Everyone knew you don't fuck with me on shift. So all of a sudden it's nine o'clock. Everyone's ready to lock in. And I've got six guys refusing to lock in. And I'm looking around the unit. I'm looking at who I'm working with. I've got the senior staff that looks like Peter Griffin. I've got the six eight guy who's 600 plus pounds. And I've got two female staff with me. And a kid from CSU. That's our control unit who probably 100 pounds soaking wet. Very nice guy. And I'm like, oh shit, this is going to go really bad. And it did. Kids refuse to lock in. Why to this day, I don't know. So I grabbed the first kid

who was six foot five, 265 pounds, 16 year old kid. And we're tussling on the ground. He gets me on the ground and he actually jumps on my back and drops his elbow into my spine. So I'm in pain. assistant director comes down. He was like 450 pounds. He was an old football player. And it's chaos for two and a half hours. I look over and the 100 pound skinny kid from CSU is on the ground and I watch a kid walk over and football kick him in the face. Knock him unconscious. He gets up and throws up everywhere. I'm like, I already know with training, he's got a concussion. This is terrible. Two and a half hours later, we get everything settled in. All the kids restrained, locked into their rooms. Police were called. And I,

I can't walk. So that kid actually fractured my L2 vertebrae in my spine when that happened. So I was actually out for a year healing from that injury. Wow. That's crazy. So going back now to the first day after training, what was that like after you've already been trained? And did you look at it differently after you went through the training? Yeah. So when I came back, I was like, oh man, this makes a lot of sense that we can really support these kids to do better, to make a difference. And the big thing that I learned there was never fake it, especially with, you know, prison. Don't lie to these people. Be honest, be truthful. And if you don't know, it's okay. You know, I used to tell kids all the time, I don't know your history, right?

I grew up in a small country town in the middle of nowhere. I don't know anything about gangs, but you don't know anything about cows. And there was a farm that was adjacent to ours, our property, where the first time kids would come in, like, what the hell is that? Like, it's a cow. They had no idea what a cow was. So, you know, I can never relate to you, but I can learn from you. So let's keep that respect. And when I first got back, our director at the time pulled me into the office and said, here's the deal.

Our facility is out of control. These kids are running everything. While I was in the academy, another CEO had got pushed into a room and three kids jumped them and beat the shit out of them. So get control. That's what I'm telling you to do. And I'm new. I'm very physically, at that point I was 6'5, 2.40, like really good shape.

I said, all right. And I got hired with a bunch of young, hungry guys, and we all worked the 2 to 10 shift. And by first month there, it was balls to the wall, restraint after restraint after this podcast is brought to by Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. With the Wise account, you can send, spend, and receive in over 40 currencies with no markups and No hidden fees. Whether you're sending pesos across the pond, spending Reales in Rio, or getting paid in dollars for your side gig, you'll get the mid-market exchange rate on every transaction. Plus, most transfers arrive in less than 20 seconds.

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And there's justificationsable reasons why, if they had a weapon, if you were in danger. And sometimes people within the facility would find a justifiable reason just to demonstrate the control in that type of I'm in charge. You're going to know I'm in charge situation. And what are the cells like and what's a movement like as well? Yeah. So it's a pod setting. So it's the day room. In the center of the day room, there's the bricks, which is the chairs that everyone calls them, and there's the bubble.

So it's right in the middle of the unit off to the one side where there is a control box where staff's at. And then along the edges of the unit are all of the rooms. So it's single person dorms where it's 20 rooms. And then on the back side of the wall is the counselor's office and then the bathroom. So there's three bathrooms on every unit and then 20 pod rooms throughout the industry. entire unit. And the inmates, the kids walking around, do they have free room all day? They have free roam inside of the pot itself. They had to keep their doors locked so there was no pop doors. They had to ask for permission to open and close the doors. And pretty much between the

hours of 8 and 9 o'clock, it was free range, unless there was some type of situation where we had to put the unit on lockdown. And what was their schedule throughout the day? So they would get up around at 6 a.m. We would walk around and wake the kids up, and it was kind of up to the staff member on how you decided you wanted to wake the kid up. Some staff that were kind of deemed to pushovers would crack open the door and be like, hey, buddy, at 6 a.m., you know, time to wake up. And there were some of us that kind of followed a different mentality where we had control over the lights in the room. So we would just walk around and pop the lights on and all the room and start banging on the door or someone to wake up. Probably not the best thing to wake up a young

kid at six o'clock in the morning by being an asshole. But that's what a lot of people did. Did you do that? Yeah, absolutely. Did you feel bad? No, not at all. Did you feel like all of those kids deserve to be there? I feel like at first, it didn't matter why you were there.

It was, you're here, you're here for a set amount of time. This is the reason why you're here. Now we're going to fix it. And, you know, I used to have kids. I was a part of an intake. So I would get the new ones in from Staten Island on a, on a place called Ellen McQueen. So it was like the transitional

where you would get arrested first and come up. And after a couple years, I kind of had a reputation where they knew me in Staten Island, the intake kids. You know, I'd come up and like, oh, you're Metais.

You're that big motherfucker with the beard and tattoos. We know not to fuck with you. And I always used to tell the kids, listen, whatever you're here for, whatever your personality is, I don't really give a shit. At the end of the day,

you are going to find someone who was bigger, badder, and tougher than you, and he just happens to work right here and his name is Mr. Metais. So what the fuck do you want to do? And looking back on it, you know, that was my first three years of my career was that asshole CEO that everyone hates and everyone talks about, like such a piece of shit that just didn't care about anyone.

He's going to run the unit his way. Big on rules and regulations, policies, but push the envelope on those as well. What's something all of these kids shared in common? Definitely trauma from back history. A lot of single parents, if any parent involved. A lot of gang connection to rural areas. So, you know, that kid that was on the isolation unit when I first started, I developed a good relationship with him over the two weeks before I went.

And right before I left for the academy, he told me, man, I really wish I could, you know, get out of the gang. And I'm 23. I'm from upstate New York. Gang, I have, okay, so leave the gang, just to make sense to me. And he goes, well, I would, but my brother's in the gang, my father's in the gang, my uncle's an OG, my grandfather was in it. He's like, if I leave, then I'm leaving my family behind. He's like, I can't do that.

And that's when I was really woken to it, like, oh, man, this kid doesn't really have a choice. And I took that to the academy, and then it just kind of got squashed when I got back. Why do you think it got squashed? I think the academy does a really good job of teaching you what. you should do. But when you get back into these facilities, you're going to listen to the staff members that you're going to work with. Because at the end of the day, those trainers at that academy, while they're fantastic people, and I'm friends with a bunch of them still to this day, they're not the person working with you 40, 60, 80 hours a week. They're not the person who's

beside you and has your back if shit goes down. So it's either you get on board with what we do or you're fucked. And I saw that happen numerous times. So I learned quickly, you jump on board with what we do. This is the programming. What was the food like there for the kids? Oh, it was fantastic. They had great options for food.

So, I mean, it was pizza, home healthy cooked burgers, steaks, chicken. I mean, it was fantastic. And the staff got to eat, too. So we would get all this great food. And it's not like, you know, it's better than school food nowadays. It was amazing good food. Why was it so good? I think it was just the youth part of it where they were trying to make sure that the kids had healthy options.

I mean, the kids got snacks left and right. If you worked at KP, the kitchen prep job there, which kids did have jobs, you would get all access to everything. I mean, chips, Miss Vickies or Miss Vickers, jalapeno chips were like the go-to for all the kids there. Cookies, Rice Krispy Treats. I mean, you could, you name it, you can have it there. And did they have to pay for that? Nope. It was given to them throughout the day, which I had a huge issue with.

Tell us about that. So a lot was handed to these kids in the facility. And I get there is an aspect where at the end of the day, they are kids. But they're there for some really heinous stuff sometimes. They had access to an Xbox. They had access to a PlayStation. All the video games you can imagine. NBA, UK was like the big one.

everyone's playing 2K. Snacks, food, the TV, they had access to that whenever they wanted. And it just didn't feel like jail. It felt like we were babysitters who were dealing with some really troubled kids who were there of some really heinous stuff. And there wasn't really that onus on change. You know, it was more of a vacation for them rather than you being locked up in a facility. When you and other officers have that type of feelings, does it make it harder to do your job?

No, because we found ways to circumvent that. You know, you had people within the facility that were really big on giving, and you had people that followed the rules. And I was someone that followed the rule. I remember I had a kid who was on KP duty, and that's the kitchen prep where they would go, and they would work one-on-one with the kitchen staff. And he would always bring back snacks and sneak him out. And I knew that the partner I was working with kept allowing it. So I just let it go for a little bit. And then we did room searches one day.

And I knew I was going to target that kid's room. He was a sarcastic kid. He was an asshole to me. So here's my chance. And he flipped out. He ended up in a physical restraint, me having to grab him. And I set my partner in at the time who was same mentality as me. And I held that kid on the ground in a seated position while he watched us take all of his shit out of his room.

And we ended up with a. melt crate full of contraband snacks. And normally you're supposed to turn it in and they'll dispose of it. We sat in our bubble and ate them in front of the kid. You know, just saying here, you want to be an asshole, this is kind of the punishment you're going to get. We're going to eat your snacks. That's funny.

So I interview a lot of gang members who talk about being in juvenile detention and that they would, you know, steal snacks or getting the fights over snacks from other kids. Was it like that in your facility? Oh, absolutely. Snacks is currency there. So, you know, people would gamble with snacks. They would trade snacks for other snacks. And there were rules in place to prevent that.

And the rules made sense. So if you followed the rules, you didn't have those issues. When snack was handed out, it was handed out at like 2 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and 8 o'clock at night. When you do snack time, you lock in. And then I give you the snack. You don't come out of the room until you're done with a snack. And you give me the garbage. I followed that rule.

So I didn't have those issues. weren't gambling or trading things on my shift. But when you don't follow that and kids are just out in the middle of the room, they're gambling, you know, spades. Spades is the big one. You're seeing that conflict arise because, oh, you didn't pay a debt to me or you said you would do this or bring it to me. And sometimes staff would bring it over to the kids and you'd see it right in front of your face. What the hell are you doing? You're helping this kid spread contraband and gamble.

Why are you doing that? Did kids rock up gambling debts in there? Oh, absolutely. What would happen in those situations? Oh, violence, absolutely. So I've seen kids, you know, have absolutely no clue what's happening and then get beat up. Sometimes on camera, sometimes off camera where people weren't aware of it. Then the kid would come back with his face all messed up.

And if they're under our supervision, how'd that happen? You know, CEO was probably a part of that. Are guards more hesitant and cautious because you guys are dealing with kids from a physical standpoint? point? Sometimes I would think, I think they were. Other times you just have lazy people that didn't want to get involved with it. Like when I first started, there were 33 of us that worked. I was 29th in seniority. So I was, you know, one of the newbies in the facility. And everyone else there had been there for like 10, 15 years ahead of me. So it's kind of just complacency at that point where no one really wants to do it. So you kind of get thrown in as the new guy who's super eager. Well, yeah, if you want to go deal with it, you deal with it because I just want an easy, you know, my 8 and skate is what they called it. I'm just trying to do my eight hours and get the hell out of here. And that wasn't my mentality. What were the politics like among the kids?

So gang politics played a little bit of a part. Again, we didn't really separate by gangs. So you would have kids on the unit who were in different gangs. It really didn't matter much. There wasn't the gang beef rivalry. You know, we had bloods, cribs. We had MS-13. We really didn't see a pop up, but we saw kids try to turn other kids in prison or, you know, juvenile.

And, you know, I know the politics of it. We were trying to, you can't change, you can't turn a kid in OCFS. It's one of the rules there. So everything was kind of, we called it Fugazi, right, fake. And the kids really didn't understand what the hell they were doing. We were trained in it. So we would find their P-dubs, their paperwork for their gangs. And some of us may have walked around, you know,

saying their lingo, you know, not to disrespect the gangs now because, you know, I have friends that are part of that lifestyle and I don't disrespect them. But, you know, when you're in juveniles and you're young, you walk around saying their lingo, the kids get pissed off and they want to fight you. You're not going to do anything, right? You're behind doors. And, you know, sometimes they would drop their flag. They would call it in there and they'd pick up another one. You know, it was just all it was all kind of bullshit in the facility where it comes to kids and gangs. But we did have some serious ones who were more older adults when they came in, who the mood of the unit totally changed.

You know, it was you as the CEO were in charge. You were the person who run the unit. But when we had like an 18 year old kid who got a step down, he was a pod boss. So you didn't have to do anything. He was going to handle it. And he was mature, very, very, respectful. He was doing college courses in there, totally different atmosphere than when you have the 14-year-old kids just kind of spitting off their lingo and stuff. Yeah, it's interesting how

that applies to like an actual prison where you have like the 20-something-year-old kid that is acting like the 14-year-old and the 60-year-old guy that's acting like the 18-year-old. Yeah, and you would see, you know, the different mentality of these kids and, you know, a lot of it had to do with their environment where they came from. And we were spread out all over the place. So we would have kids originally from the five boroughs come all the way up to Delaware County. So it's a good five, six hour drive until the commissioner squashed that with a close to home initiative. So everyone was then kind of local. So I had a kid from Middleburg area, which is 25 minutes away from my house, grew up with my cousin. I'm like, what the hell? This is way too close. You know, Albany, Troy,

all these areas. And I got kids in the area where I now live. So, Down in my area is Newburgh, Poughkeepsie, those were a lot of the kids I got, and I was always three hours away from there. Who cares where you're from? And now I live 10 minutes from Newburgh. So, yeah, I've actually ran into kids that I had in the facility when I was up there. Was there visitation with their families there? Yeah. Every Sunday, between one and four, they had free visitation.

Not a lot of families were able to pick up and take that. And sometimes that created some issues, you know, with me. We had one kid, I'll never forget him. He was six foot seven, 16-year-old kid, and the kid was a smart ass again, you know, click the mouth. His brother was incarcerated over at Highland facility next to us where I live now. And his parents would come every Sunday from Staten Island. And they would always come in a suit and a tie. His father was in the church.

She was a pastor, mom and a sundress, so thankful, so respectful. And I had issues with that kid because of that. You know, I was in his, you know, sit down with his family, and he was just being a complete asshole to his family and family. It's like these people took a bus from Staten Island to come up and see you, and they come up every Sunday. And they're such sweet, kind people. Why are you being such an asshole to your family?

You know, a lot of these kids don't have anyone else. And you have this amazing family that come up. up and supports you, what the hell is your problem? And that's where I really struggled with that kid in particular a lot. Is it ever reversed where you're looking at the parents? You're like, this kind of makes sense why their kid is in a juvenile detention center? 100%. I mean, I've had family come up who weren't even allowed to come in through the gate. They wouldn't go through the metal detector. They wouldn't get searched. And then, you know, threatening to go out to the car and shoot us. I was like, well, this makes sense why your kid is with us or your cousin is.

with us, that same kind of mentality where I'll do whatever I want and there's no repercussions to it. Is there programming for the kids, like programs, counseling, anything like that? Yeah, so they have, everyone has a counselor assigned to them. They also have therapists assigned to them. So there was a whole therapist team that would meet with the kids and go over things. And then every one of the COs had a mentee. So we were assigned either two or three kids on the unit that you would have to

sit with weekly and do a forum and paperwork to kind of mentor them on the process of what you're doing throughout your stay here. What's one of the kids you'll never forget about? Oh, man. What was their situation? I had this young kid who was one of my first kids there. He was from Newburgh. Young, very energetic kid.

He was arrested for, I believe it was robbery. And him and I just got close. He was my first mentee. nice kid and he ended up breaking his leg because he was being jerking around in there he fell off of one of the tables and broke his legs so now he's on crutches he needs to be on a one-to-one basis and i was like shit i'll just take him it's fine um and that kid you know when he left i was really upset like man i really got close to this kid and with ocFS there's no ability to talk to anyone afterwards. Like it's constant cut off contact. Even if they reach out to you on Facebook,

you can be fined and you could be fired for talking to a kid, even if they don't go there anymore. And about two years ago, I was in the Walmart in Newburgh, where he was originally from, and I'm walking through the aisle, and I hear Matice. I was like, oh shit. No one calls me, Mattis. And sure enough, it was that kid. And he was telling me, you know, how he went and he's got two kids now. He's successful. He's working a full-time job. He makes 40K a year. He makes 40K a year hasn't been in trouble since and you know it was really cool you know we exchanged information because i don't work for ocFS anymore so screw their policies at this point i'm going to talk to this kid and we still talk to this day so were there a lot of individuals where you were always curious about

how they would end up when they left yeah um we would definitely do our research you know afterwards and a lot of the times it was heartbreaking i mean you would see kids go home and then within a couple months they're dead. You know, I had a couple of kids that ended up getting shot and gang wars and gang fights or they would get locked backed up. That 18-year-old kid who was the pod boss when he came in. So we had a 13-year-old kid on the unit who was from Troy and he was a mouthy kid, man. I mean, he violated everyone. And he took him under his wing and said, look, this is not how you act around here. We want to run a tight ship. We're going to get your stuff together. And he violated a female CO. And there are rules, even in juveniles, you don't mess with a female CO. And I remember

clear as day, I was working in the central unit watching cameras. This kid sitting there talking to a staff member and this 18 year old comes up from behind and just rocks him in the face, completely knocks him out, right off the chair, unconscious and starts beating the shit out of them. And I watched the COs, you know, move towards the situation. But this They moved to it at a pace that you kind of knew what they were doing, right? All right. This kid's taking care of business. We're going to delay this a little bit.

And they ended up shipping that kid, the 18-year-old, who everyone loved. He ran the place. And when they were transferring him, so they put him on an isolation unit, the day the transport came, all the staff came down to say goodbye to this kid. And the director stood at the gate and said, if you all don't go back, I'm going to fire every one of you. What the fuck are you doing? he just assaulted a kid. So we all had hopes for this kid. We heard he gets out.

He goes back down to the city. He's on the corner. Some kid disrespects him. He goes home and gets a gun, shoots and kills him. He's doing life in prison now. It's like, man, what the fuck? I thought this kid had a future. He was in college courses.

He seemed so ready to take on life. And it's just, it's heartbreaking. You see things like that. And then you see the kids where they reaffin. You're like, man, what did we do while they were here? here, you know, a kid from Corum down in Long Island. Complete asshole kid. I mean, we all knew it.

He was in isolation. He gets home. Three months after he gets out, he shoots a 87-year-old man in the leg and almost kills him. And now he's doing prison time. It's like, what did we housed him for six to eight months? We don't do any rehabilitation. We don't do any support for this kid. He's going to continue to be who he is.

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In my experience, I've seen kids come back to the same facility three times. When is there a cutoff point that we're not doing the right thing for these kids? It's always the kid, right? The kid's an asshole. The kid has fucked up family. When does it go back to what do we do as an organization to provide some type of support? You know, there were groups for kids. It was all bullshit.

Dialectical behavioral therapy, DBT training, drug group, which half the time therapists didn't even come down and teach it. They gave the book to the COs. And we sit around there and we teach the group off of a piece of paper. None of us know what the hell we're doing. And it's a joke. And then we expect this kid to. Be better, do better, and they hand him everything in prison. You know, the kid doesn't have an Xbox at home.

He gets to play Xbox all he wants here. So where's the incentive for that kid to leave here and stay out? There's not. I mean, that kid that came back three times, every time he came back, he was thrilled. He was, oh, man, I get to see my friends. I get to hang out with Matisse again. I get to play Xbox and shoot pool. Stuff he doesn't have at home.

Why is that not on us to fix? of course the kid's going to come back if he has a shitty life outside of us. What would you say is one lesson each kid should learn that could alter the trajectory of their life? I think one of the biggest lessons those kids should learn, think for themselves. I think there is a lot of manipulation that goes on either from friends or from family members to do things that they normally. wouldn't do. You know, I would say 95% of the kids that were in there, that wasn't their trajectory. Someone else made that influence. You have the 5% that are just going to be that kid, right? But I think 95% of them, if they actually thought about consequences, what this means, what it's

going to do for my future, they probably wouldn't have done it. But then the state itself in New York, if you have a juvenile crime on your record, well, it gets sealed and expunge. So even though that kid's there trying to learn a lesson, which we're not giving them, there's really no repercussion because when I turn 18,

it's in a sealed file, no one sees it. So how does that actually can give them any circumstance or consequences for their behavior? That's why they take the charge. That's why they volunteer to go to the juvenile facility

because they know it's easy, it's light, and it will not be on my record later on. Now, do you think if they just didn't have the juvenile detention facility and they went to an actual prison, it would make a difference? If it hits them harder? I think if the juvenile centers were set up more as prisons, not camps. That's how I felt it was like a day camp. Like snack time and all that.

Yeah. Xboxes. I think if it was set up with more stricter policy, more strict regulation. When it was a boot camp, essentially is what it was, where the kids would wake up at 5 a.m. You couldn't talk. You would come outside your door and it was parade rest. You would stand there, military. One at a time be excused to go to the bathroom.

No one would talk. You would stand in line and you would move and make sure there was an arm's length between everyone. You know, I heard the stories of this. And they had kids not return. They were successful. They grew. The resident rate was so low then. but it was too hard.

It's jail. It's supposed to be hard. It's not supposed to be fun. I think if it was more of that stricter mentality, it would be more successful. Do I think a 16-year-old kid should be thrown in with adults? Absolutely not. That's where you're going to see the kid be influenced by these adults, where they already were previously. And then they're going to start making those choices that could affect their life more with adults in adult prison.

Do these kids make like contraband weapons? Oh, yeah. Things like of that nature. Yeah, I remember I had a kid, a 14-year-old kid who almost shanked me. Yeah. So the kid's in his room. I go to open up the door and this kid who was from the Kingston area, who him and I absolutely could not stand each other, he is supposed to be there for a four-month bid.

He ended up doing 11 because the kid just couldn't stay out of trouble. We butted heads every day. Standing there on the side of this kid's door. I'm like, what the hell is this kid doing? Why are you here? Like, go away. I don't like you. You don't like me.

It's fine. I open up the door and this kid, the 14 year old, goes to shank me. And the kid who I can't stand, he hates me, grabs the kid's hand and saves me from getting shanked right by the door. So a vent system, kind of like the one you have up here, but it was square. The kid had broken it off a side of the metal. and it just been shaving it down. So it was a point probably this long of just triangle blade.

And if that would have got me, man, I don't know. So the kid who I absolutely couldn't stand actually saved me that day. And have there been other officers that were shanked before? Yeah, absolutely. You know, the kids are allowed to have pencils. They're supposed to be counts. If you don't do your job, no one pays attention. You know, I didn't see in my facility anyone make the razor blades or, you know, anything crazy.

Like that, you know, there were razor counts that you had to make sure you checked for each kid. But yeah, they were definitely like makeshift little weapons and stuff that they used. And they use it against each other as well. Yeah, they do. Yeah, themselves and more likely towards CEOs, it was kind of the mentality that we can do stuff against each other as inmates, but nothing that we want to severely hurt each other. Right. We're both kids. I don't think a lot of them didn't have that kind of mentality when it came to hurting another kid.

but if you were a CEO, they didn't care. When you were in training, did they talk about the violent aspect of it that you could be in danger? So they covered it a little bit, but they kind of brush over it. They talk about what the possibilities are. They don't really share the real aspect of what it's like in that facility. And the first time I went to the academy was when I first started. After I had the broken back and I came back while I'm out for a year, I got to go to the Academy all over again.

Oh, they made you a back. They did. And this time, it wasn't in Red Hook anymore. It was up in East Greenbush, so up near the Albany area. State of the art facility, they put it in a Kmart. It was an old Kmart. And kind of like you have upstairs with your studio with the jail setting, they actually have a fake pod in there.

So these new CEOs can learn what it looks like, what it's supposed to be. And they do role play scenarios there. So I remember I'm sitting there with a bunch of new fresh green CEOs, and I've been in the field for four years at this point. And the trainer's just talking about this shit, and I'm standing there like, okay, listen, that's bullshit. You and I both know that, you know, I had that jaded mentality that when I went back to the facility,

that's what they put on me. And I was doing that in the middle of the training. And I had another guy who had been in a field for 12 years from another facility who had to go back and do the, academy again and we're like yeah this is all bullshit we know that they're full of shit here and two of the people that I worked with side by side in my facility graduated I guess promoted and now they're trainers up there and they're sitting there and I looked at him and him and I were really good friends like what are you talking about you know that's bullshit you were there with me

when ABC and D happened how are you going to tell these newbies this isn't true you know and I think that aspect where a little bit of reality is important for them. So some transparency. They need transparency for what these facilities really are and what they look like. What was the biggest difference in training that second time versus the first time? Definitely role play. My friend who was, he was our facility trainer, actually got promoted up at East Greenbush as the director of training. And he was a YDA for so many years there. And he was phenomenal. I mean, he was a great guy. He really focused on real life aspects.

So you would go into the unit and you would have to do room searches in a room that looks just like a pod you would be in. And they would hide contraband. You guys have to go through and find it. You would have to address and try to de-escalate a situation. And if you couldn't, you've got to respond. I mean, this guy is 6'4, 285 pounds. You've got to restrain them. And you've got to do it safely and do it correct.

Make sure you know what you're doing before you go in to an actual facility. So, you know, they paired up the two vets that have been in the field before. So we kind of watched through a glass window that everyone gets to see. And you see the newbies kind of go through it and they're like, oh, man, I'm really not sure. What do we do? And they're like, all right, you guys go last. Go ahead and figure it out. And clearly, you know, we've been in the field.

We know what we're doing. It's they saw a different approach, a different aspect for new staff. Oh, this is how vets really do it, you know, instead of that timid, scared approach. But I think it was more definitely hands-on focused rather than, the other one where you sat and listened to lectures for eight hours a day and you're checked out at the end of the day. No one really cares. And then you just go back to your room and go to sleep and do it all over again.

Why did you decide to go back on the job after your injury? It was kind of a back and forth with do I really want to do this. Do I really want to come back and deal with the same shit over again? And the money. I mean, I was four years in at that point. You get staggered raises every time. So I think I was at $60,000-plus,000 a year. And that's not including the overtime.

You make a lot of money. State benefits, state retirement. But the second time I went back was a different mentality. You know, I had prided myself on being that dickhead CEO. I had no problem putting hands on you. I had no problems addressing you. I would write shots left and right. Like level one, two, and three, doesn't matter.

I'm going to write. I loved paperwork. It doesn't bother me a bit. You want to have restrictions on your programs? I'll write them all day. And when I went back, physically I wasn't the same. Being out for so long, I had gained a ton of weight. I was 240 now.

I'm 340 pounds. A lot of depression took place. You know, you're sitting at home. everyone who you're friends with works in corrections. You know, you work two to ten with Tuesdays and Wednesdays off. Who the hell are your friends, you know? So you are friends with other COs. And the only thing you do after 10 o'clock at night is go drink.

And some of my best friends were my COs, you know, my partners. And it was, all right, we're done at 10 o'clock at night. Well, what are we going to go do? Well, the bar closes at one. How fast can we get to the bar? And you were in that mentality where it was fight or flight. flight and you couldn't flight, right? That wasn't my mentality. That wasn't my partner's mentality. We're young. Well, if you work an eight-hour shift where you're ready to fight at any moment

and then it comes 10 o'clock and you're going home, you still feel like you want to fight. So let's go out and drink and let's start trouble, right? So go out and try to find a fight with someone, just be an arrogant asshole. And that lifestyle wasn't working for me anymore. You know, the drinking, the partying, the going out. I needed to make a change. And I knew I still had that reputation of being that hard-ass, yo, that my facility expected. And I was terrified to go back and I wasn't that person anymore. How am I going to show them this isn't me?

Because they're expecting this person. That's not who I am anymore. But ultimately, you know, I called my friend who was a YC there. I said, look, I'm coming back. I'm healed. Things are going to be a little bit different. Oh, sure, no problem. Yep.

Uh-huh. Don't worry about it. And I decided to go back. Yeah. How has your perspective changed through day one all the way through coming back and then finishing off your career there in corrections? That these kids need help. They really do need help. I remember my philosophy coming back was, you know, these kids are always going to stay the same age.

You know, regardless of who we have, the ages in the facility are 13. to 21. Even if we lose a kid and get another kid, they're still going to be in that age group. Every year I'm getting older. First off, physically, how the hell am I going to do this when I'm 50 years old? I mean, I got guys working here over 65 years old, and I'm looking at him, looking awful. I had a guy who was 42 years old, look like he was 85. He's like, oh, I'm 42.

I'm like, Jesus Christ, I don't want this. So my philosophy and not my thought was, what the hell do I have to prove by Manhattan a kid? Because that's what it is. They're kids. Some of them may not look like kids. They may not act like kids, but what is that going to benefit me at this point? How am I making myself feel better?

And that's what it was. It was control. I'm 23 when I first start. I'm big man on campus. You're going to follow my rules. You're going to listen to me. And if not, here's the consequences. Versus how can I help a kid?

You know, a month, every month, I would say probably 25, 30 restraints. It's easy for me for the first. first three years. This podcast is brought to you by Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. With the Wise account, you can send, spend, and receive in over 40 currencies with no markups and no hidden fees. Whether you're sending pesos across the pond, spending reales in Rio, or getting paid in dollars for your side gig, you'll get the mid-market exchange rate on every transaction. Plus, most transfers arrive in less than 20 seconds. Join 15 million customers internationally. Be smart. Get Wise. Download the Wise app today. T's and Cs

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I came back for the next three years. I had one restraint the entire rest of my career. So you don't think that you were trying to, you know, get back at individuals that hurt you? Like, even though it wasn't the physical, the actual kid that hurt you, he might not have been there, but just the idea of these other kids, you didn't go in. trying to target them at all? No, no. I mean, when I first came back, I remember my first night back. I was put on the two to ten.

And one of the kids there, I have never met because they come in every six months. And he grabs the remote and he wouldn't give it back to the AOC, the administrator. So they call me in, knowing who I am. And this administrator I've never worked with before. He's new. And he says, fucking grab that kid up, throw him in his room. I like, dude. normally yeah 100% not even a question let's go i was like i'm not gonna do that man

no you're gonna do that you're being in subordinate it's a direct order i'm not gonna do that man it's not my thing so he's bitching he's complaining to me i get the kid to his room i said just give me the remote you don't know me i don't know you he goes oh i know who the fuck you are i'm like yeah listen yeah i know the rumors shit like that just give me the remote so he gives me the remote about 15 minutes in Well, now he's not letting me shut the door. So the administrator is right behind me, talking all this shit. If he doesn't shut the door, fucking throw him in there, yada, yada, yada.

And I was like, just go the fuck away, right? Like, please. And this kid for two hours is just going. I'm standing in between him and the EOC. Door is still open. And about two hours in, the kid just starts crying. 16-year-old kid. And I'm like, what the hell?

What's going on? No one knew it. Right before he stole the remote, he got off the phone. I mean, he was on the phone with his mom. His mom just got diagnosed with stage four cancer. She had four months to live. That kid's bid was six months. He wasn't going to go home to see his mom before she died.

So that's why he was acting out. What the hell are we doing here? Yeah, I easily could have yoked that kid up. I could have thrown him in his room. And then what? What does that do to help that kid? That's trauma. He's not going to see his mom because of the mistakes he made.

And that's where everything just shifted for me. How do we get these kids the support they need, the help they need? Physical restraint. If it's necessary, yeah, you've got to jump in. But you can talk to these kids. Use the skills you have. Communicate instead of use physical force. And a lot of kids respond to that because they don't have that.

It's violence be. It's violence with them. If you talk to a kid, you'll get so much further. And that was my mentality in the last couple years. That desire for power that you were talking about in your early 20s when you were first on the job. Where do you think that stem from? I think it was my own personal feeling of success. I felt my mindset of what makes a good successful CEO was that hard ass.

Was that person that held the line for everything that didn't give any slack? that was policy, T, everything, word for word, that's what makes you successful. And yeah, I didn't care. You know, I always had that, well, I'm going to push the boundaries with authority, right? And I did, even with my administrators there, you know, God, did you really need to, you know, go this way? Yeah, I did. It gives a shit. It was me trying to be as successful as possible.

And it was kind of I don't care who I step on on the way to get there. And, you know, I had the Peter Griffin guy, I call him. Him and I are good friends. And he would always sit there and tell me, dude, you're going about this the wrong way. He goes, don't you just want to come in and have a good night? He goes, every fucking night we work together, it's always an issue. And he goes, the kids are not the issue. When I work with them, there's no issue.

It's you. I don't give a shit. They're going to do it my way. It's my way or I don't give a shit. And that was my mentality. Why did you end up deciding to leave? So the facility was actually getting shut down. The state went through this whole initiative where they were trying to shut down some of the juvenile centers and ours was the first one.

A lot of that, I feel, was due to the controversies that had happened throughout my time there. And there were a lot of them. I thought, let me go and I'll transfer to another one. So if they're shutting down a facility, you have legal rights to go to a different facility. And I went down to the Highland facility, which is about 20 minutes where I live now. And I just said, I can't do this anymore. My body's not there. My mind isn't there.

I need to change what I'm doing. I need to find happiness. I need to find that work-life balance. So I decided to hang up my uniform and be done with it after that. What were some of the controversies? So we're going on. So one of the big ones, a rape case for a female CEO that was arrested while on shift for apparently and allegedly, unless I say allegedly, having sexual intercourse with two of the young men that were there. That was a big one that took place.

And, you know, in my opinion, she was set up by the administrative staff. You saw a lot of, if they don't like you, they'll put you in places and circumstances that put you in that situation. And again, me being the policy and regulation guy, I know that a female CEO does not transport or walk with an individual by themselves. And she had two that night with an administrator on duty who we knew had it out for her. And not to mention where they went, they were sent up there to go do cleaning. That was their job. So you have two kids with a female CO, really against policy, should never happen. And they went to a place where there was no cameras.

So there's no physical evidence or proof of this other than that administrator walking in and saying this is what I saw. And I had worked with that female CO for many years. I would vouch for her. And she said that she was being raped by these two kids. and it turned out that they said she was having sex with them consensually. What happened to her? So went through the legal process. She was found not guilty, but at first, you know, small rural town, everyone knows what's going on.

And I believe she currently has a lawsuit against the administrators there. So I wish her the best of luck to nail them because they definitely deserve what they got for trying to set her up for that. It was not who she was as a person. When you left that job, did you feel your life get instantly better, like once you figured out your purpose and just kind of leaving that negative environment? Yeah, absolutely. I remember the last day. So the administrator who was my boss, so there's administrator on every duty, but then you have your supervisor. And he just happened to be working my lap shift.

And man, I had known him since I've been there. He's been there for 20 plus years. And he's such a prick. I can't stand them. We hated each other. Well, your last day to get paid, you have to bring in all your uniforms. You need to have five. I was like, all right, I got this.

So over the times, you know, riots and yearn and all this stuff, I have old nasty uniforms. I found the grossest, nastiest uniforms I possibly could. I threw them in a trash bag and I came in at 6 o'clock in the morning. I'm wearing civilian clothes. He goes, what the hell? why are you dressed like that? I said, well, you need all my uniforms. Here they are.

You can't go on the unit like that. I said, then you can send me home, but I'm still getting paid. And this is my last day anyways, so go fuck yourself. When I threw in my uniforms, I spent eight hours on the unit, walked out, got my keys at the end. And I said, I hope you have a miserable fucking life, you piece of shit. And I've walked out the door, and that was the last I ever talked to him again. What do you do now? So right now, I'm a training coordinator.

I work for an agency that supports adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities, and I absolutely love it. It is my niche. I went back into the field that I had left so long ago to go into corrections, and it's an absolute passion of mine. You know, I get to meet new staff, support people that need that support. So it kind of ties back into what I originally wanted to do with my life going into corrections. now I get to do it on a regular basis and really make people's lives better, which is huge for me. What advice would you give to a parent that has a young daughter or son or even relative family member going through the juvenile justice system? The first thing I would tell families is get help for yourself first.

If you are a part of the environment that's causing this chaos, you need to recognize that and get help for yourself. And then support. I mean, the best thing you can do is show up and accountability. Hold your family members accountable, but understand their kids. You know, I know it sounds way easier said than done to pull your kid out of these environments and put them in situations that are more beneficial. But what if it's that kid who turns 18 and now he's doing life in prison? You know, the impact that could be made so early on is what can change that kid's trajectory, right then and there.

And if you don't have that impact, the kid may continue down that road. And then they end up, unfortunately, at the end of the road. Nick, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. Thank you, and I appreciate it, man. Yeah, thanks for giving us some insight into the juvenile justice system. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. I don't think we've had that perspective before from the correctional officer's side of it.

Yeah, that's not something a lot of people know about or talk about. So I was glad to come on and share with you guys. Awesome. And, you know, thanks for coming out and being a listener and supporter of the show. We appreciate it. For sure. Thank you, man.