Locked In with Ian Bick - Inside Look: Pastor Turned Jailer Shares Stories from the Cell Block | Brian gabbard

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

Brian Gabbard, a pastor turned jailer, shares his journey from the pulpit to working inside a county jail. In this episode, Brian gives an inside look at the challenges and experiences he faced while navigating life on both sides of the justice system. From ministering to inmates to maintaining order behind bars, Brian's story explores faith, redemption, and the roles he has played in a courthouse jail environment. Tune in to hear his perspective and the impact of his work. #PastorTurnedJailer #LifeBehindBars #FaithAndJustice #PrisonStories #RedemptionJourney #InsideCountyJail #JusticeSystemInsights #PulpitToPrison Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Understanding the Role of a Jailer 00:04:07 Life and Responsibilities as a Jailer 00:10:37 Impact of Passionate Staff on Inmate Experience 00:12:02 Managing the Jail System and Trust 00:16:09 Efficient Commissary Management and E-cigarette Sales 00:20:03 Skills Learned in Prison for Post-Release Employment 00:23:54 Understanding Inmate Hygiene and Facility Rules 00:27:36 Life Inside a Jail and Sentencing Process 00:32:22 Building Respect and Compassion in Jail 00:35:58 Compassionate Jail Management Approach 00:40:16 Challenges of Transitioning Jail Leadership 00:43:58 The Power of Kindness in Transforming Lives 00:48:01 Transitioning from Preacher to Jailer: Challenges & Insights 00:51:57 Overcoming Adversity: A Personal Story 00:55:45 Making a Difference in Others' Lives 00:59:53 Navigating Relationships with Incarcerated Loved Ones 01:03:57 Reflecting on a Podcast Interview with a Connecticut Guest Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

America's first pledge was freedom. Jeep still carries that fighting spirit. With the Jeep Declaration of Deals, we're pledging our allegiance to the American people with great deals on the luxurious Grand Cherokee, with available three-row seating, premium craftsmanship, and tech that turns every drive into an adventure. Or Jeep Rangler with legendary 4-4 capability and open-air freedom.

Because Freedom deserves the vehicle built to carry it. Jeep, there's only one. Hurry into your local dealer for the Jeep Declaration of Deals. Jeep has won more awards over its lifetime than any other SUV branch. Chief of the Jeep of the Jeep Grill or registered trademarks of XCAUS LLC. Moving yourself sounds simple, until it isn't. The packing, the truck rental, the lifting, the mess. Now imagine moving with United van lines.

United's pros know how to transport your things safely and seamlessly. No guesswork, no borrow dollies, no hassles. A full service move by United means your move is handled by experts. Your time stays yours and your stress level dramatically lower. Full service moving from America's number one mover, United. a better way to move. Get a free quote at United VanLines.com. Brian, welcome to locked in. Pleasure having you on the show. You are another jailer, but in a different county. Is that correct? Yes. Joining county. A joint, joining? Joining county. Yeah, it's just the next county over. Now, why do some places call it jailer,

some warden, some superintendent? What's a difference? Well, now, me, if I say, if I say warden, I'd be speaking of a prison. You know, hers is a county. jail that actually has state inmates. So here we just call them jailers. Okay. But it's kind of, in a way, the same function? Yeah. Well, I would think that a jailer's a little more hands-on.

You know, we're a little more close, closer to the inmate side of it, you know, dealing with them a little closer than probably a warden would. Is it insulting to call a jailer or a warden or vice versa? No, I've been called a lot worse. I can imagine. I laugh when they call me jailer. It means everything's going good. Now, do you have the inmates call you jailer?

No. Sometimes they call me Mr. Gabbard, Brian, jailer. Typically, they don't even call me jailers. So either is fine with me. And now are you an elected official or appointed? Yes. All jailers. And I'm not 100% sure, but Kentucky may be the only state that has jailers as elected

official. If they're not, there's not very many of them. And did you grow up in Kentucky? I did. I grew up right there where I'm at in Jackson County. Wow. And never left at all? Never left.

I wanted to. But, you know, that goes home to the whole pastor preacher. You know, I got saved. My whole life changed. My plans changed. And I guess that's just where God wanted me. Yeah. Where did you want to go if you had to go somewhere?

Florida. Florida? Yes. I had an uncle that had left. You know, years ago, went to a divorce and moved to Florida. And I had never even been to Florida, you know, at that point. But it sounded warm and friendly, and that's where I wanted to go. I can't even swim, so it wasn't about the, I didn't want to be a surfer or nothing.

Well, it's still warm here, though. Yeah. It's pretty hot. Yeah, but, you know, actually, the weather's changed a lot over the years, you know. Used to when it got cold here, it stayed cold until spring. But it's really not like that anymore. What are the winters like in Kentucky? They can be really bad, but like I said, they're not as bad as they used to be.

It's just kind of like stretches. A couple weeks, it could be really bad. And 50-ish, 40s, you know, it's not, it's tolerable. Yeah, well, in Connecticut, I'd love that weather. And usually, I mean, you know, mid, somewhere around March, you probably from there on out, you have more worn days. to do the bitter code. Did you have family in law enforcement?

Well, my pap, I would call him, grandpa was jailer for about 17 years. Same jail? Yes. Then my uncle was jailer for 12 years. Wow. And I always thought they were crazy. And I would ask my dad, you know,

I said, why would anybody want to do that? Because I saw the stress, of it. You know, my dad and his brother were really close, and my dad would kind of help keep him in line, you know, as we'd say here, but I was, I would ask him, why does he want to do that? And my dad's response was, it's in his blood, you know, and I said, well, that's crazy. But then when I became a little more interactive with him in that jail, of course, I was saved and I started preaching, and that became part of it, too. I did a lot of jail ministry. and but up until two months before I ran for for that office I would have never done it.

Really? And you never worked in like corrections or anything like that? But I did do drug court. I'm still part of a drug court team. I've been in that probably 18 years. And then, of course, the jail ministry. And besides that, you know, I would go sit at the jail all the time with my uncle and watch him interact. My last name is Gabbard.

We come from a long line of being able to talk. You know, that's what we're known for. We're known for a lot of worse things, but we are known to talk. You'll notice. So I would interact and watch the way he interact with those inmates, and they loved him. I mean, didn't mean that he didn't run a good jail. Didn't mean he wasn't fair, but he had his heart in it. Caused him a lot of stress.

Nathan was talking about it, and it has me also. but my heart is in it. And it probably affects my health a little bit. But the moment my heart gets out of it, I'm leaving. Yeah, I feel like your role is a pretty much always on the clock type of job. Yeah, like it's nonstop. Yeah, because you're the point person when there's an issue. And I'm sure Nathan's the same way.

That's what I want to be, though. If I tell them I do not like surprises, don't let me come in this jail in the morning without knowing something, whatever happened, I want to know. So sometimes that's 3 o'clock phone calls. If someone has to go to the hospital, you better tell me first. Because something were to go wrong and they call me, I don't want to be unaware of the situation, you know. I'm a little peculiar over everything's done.

I kind of macro-manage, even though I try really hard not to, and I get advice not to do that, I still do it to a degree. Did you go to college? I did. Where did you go to school? Eastern Kentucky. And what was your major in that?

I didn't go long enough to major in that. So you never finished? I was minored. No, but I did. My interest was like business. Okay. You know, I just, but I didn't go far enough to accomplish much, you know. So you don't necessarily need to have a degree in law enforcement to become a jailer at all?

No, and, you know, reality, hands-on is the best education. You're not going to be there alone without learning how to do it. I had all kinds of great ideas that did not work. Thank God I didn't push it because it was my idea. If it didn't work, I didn't use it. I had a lot that did work, and I implemented those. But every idea I had wasn't the best one once I got in there. You know, and you can learn, you know, you can get an education.

But once you're inside that jail, it's a little bit different. Coming from a family that was running the jail previous to you, was there a lot of pressure and maybe even caution to not make changes in it? Because that was your family? Well, no. Probably the best part is I didn't take over after him. He had already been out for about eight years. But I did learn a lot of good things just watching him.

And like I said, a couple times interacting with him was the best thing that I learned watching him. Yeah. So walk us through like a typical day in your life as a jailer. It's like it's a Monday morning. Oh, Monday. I knew he's going to go to Monday. Yeah, what happens out of Monday? Mondays, I usually don't go in Saturday, Sunday.

If I'm in there on Saturday Sunday, something is wrong. And I did learn that from my uncle. He stayed in the jail. And he has advised him, he's passed on now, but he said, don't live in that jail. So on a Monday morning is probably my worst or my hardest days. I usually have 10, what we call them, we usually call them love letters, 10 letters from inmates, maybe more. My name's Brian, they usually spell it brain. I've got used to that.

I've got all these letters I've got to read. And then usually five to six voicemails I have to return. and if anything you know if someone's went to the hospital on the weekend if there's been a fight or anything like that i just pick up from there and go on and a lot of times on and then i have all the guards that come in and talk to me my employees kitchen workers uh supervisors so it's about two and a half hours before i'd leave my office to go back in the back part of the jail monies can be really hard and most time they go all through, it goes like that all through the day.

So that's probably my hardest day is on a Monday. Are you doing like a walkthrough to? Yeah, I don't normally do the walkthroughs. But if they, if they want to see me, request to see me in any situation, if it's a good situation, if it's a need situation, if it's a bad situation, I bring them out of that sale and bring them down to where I am, get them away from everybody else. it makes the situation a little bit easier handled because, you know, our jail, our biggest sale house is 20.

So at any point, there could be 24 to 27 in there at times. So you don't want to go in there. If it's a confrontation with one, 26 others behind him, you know, I usually pull him out and talk to him that way. But I'm not above going in the sale either. You know, I go in sometimes talk to them. mingle with them, you know. How much access does an inmate have to you?

Like if they have a grievance, I know you said you were reading the letters. I'm straight to my desk if it's a grievance. Believe it or not, we don't have a lot of those. But usually, like I said, it's a letter. You know, it's got my name on it. Most time it's just wanting something. I have hired some really good employees. It doesn't pay the best for those guys.

but most of the ones I've hired has got a passion for it also. It kind of looked the way I look at it, feel the way I feel at it, and it works really good. So if they've got a question, they'll come to my office with it, give me a letter. A lot of times I'll ride on it, or I make pull them down. If it's something I don't want to write, end up in court, I'll pull them down, answer their question. Do you see a difference in ultimately like the inmates' experience in a jail when, You have correctional officers and guards that are passionate about their job versus not passionate. Well, it's only jail I ever worked in.

But, you know, I've got some really good relationships with a few jails that run really good jails. Some inmates come from other ones that they're not used to be intrigued that way. My goal, my, the first thing I say to an employee is you treat them with respect until you can't. You be really good to them until you can't. And it has worked really well for us. You know, we don't go in. We don't degrade them. Talk to them like men.

Talk to them like women because that's what they are. And it has paid off really well for us. We don't have a lot of fights. We don't have a lot of, we don't even have a lot of arguments with our guards. mates. Every now and then you will, but it'll be, it'll be their fault if it is. Now, say the public comes in on a Monday, how different is the Monday public viewing versus like a Tuesday without the public present? You mean like visitation or just like anyone, like say

the mayor comes through. Like I know in the federal prison system from my perspective, a lot of it is fake when someone like a politician comes through. We very seldom have anyone like that. Now, Sometimes a judge will come. He's my cousin. So sometimes he'll come, but he leaves it to me. He lets me run the jail. The mayor has nothing to do with our jail. I've had really good magistrates.

It's kind of like a board. You know, you have three magistrates, and then the judge. They do most of the voting. And usually if I hire an employee, they let me hire who I want, unless it's something I don't know about that employee. It's worked for them previously. But they have really just turned that jail loose to me and trusted me with it. It's been a good relationship.

Now, even with the judge being your cousin, I'm sure people might think that it's not a fair and, you know, just system. But how do you keep that, you know, fair and just, you know, balance? You're not going to believe this. He's a pastor also. So I really believe this may sound crazy, but I believe they just trust us. You know, I've never had anything said in that manner.

I think it's probably a big headache off of him to just hand it to me and say you run it. And, you know, if the budget gets tight, if the money gets tight in the county, he may say, if you don't care, have them cut back a little bit on spending, that's as far as it's it's, it's very. ever went, you know. So whatever I need most of time, he'll agree to it. What's the first to go in a budget cut in regards to inmates' needs? Well, the inmates are first priority, you know. So it's never anything, anything like that. To be honest, it might be office supplies or something on the outside, something to a

vehicle. But we're pretty much self-sustainable. We have a big commissary. We run our own commissary. Most people don't know how jail works. It's pretty much a little town all in itself. You know, we've got a store. The mail runs through us. We don't even, we don't take mail in anymore.

It's all done on a computer. So we don't have to run the risk of drugs coming in that way. It's on a kiosk in their cell. We proofread it, put it on that. But our commissary has done really well. when I took that jail over, I think it had $27,000 in the account. I left today. I looked at $387,000.

Wow. But now I can take that money and spend it on an inmate. We make our own mats. We got a commercial sewing machine. The inmates do the work. And you want to get a good mat, let an inmate make one. Best mat in America, because they got to sleep on it. So they do really.

well that my actually my chief deputy she used to work in a sewing factory so she's professional with the sewing machines taught a lot of those ladies how to do it and we can buy all that out of out of commissary our cameras we've updated our cameras as Nathan was talking about he is I don't know if it's a good idea for me but I can watch everything going on from my phone sometimes that's not a good if I want to have a good weekend I don't look at it you know but We've updated those, added them to the existing cameras we already had, bought all that out of commissary. We can pay medical bills from a certain em.

It just saves the taxpayers a whole lot of money using it that way. So it's been really good. Now, the commissary, does that go to specific, like, contracts? Like I know, the Fed said it's like Keefe coffee and, like, different brands. Is that how you run it? We just kind of, you know, vendors may come to us. We try to find the best deals. We run all of our commissary in-house.

So we've got a little building out there. I've got a great lady that runs commissary. She's a lot like me. You know, if something's crooked, she wants it straight. She might be an old OCD. I'm not talking about financially. I mean, a box. You know, so she runs it really, really well.

We keep her prices down, especially on food as much as possible. We still do the, we call me ESIGs, electronic ECSIs. We're still allowed to have those in the jail. Now, that's the only thing I make money on. That's what makes the SHLPS sale. If you're hungry, you can buy it pretty cheap. If you want to smoke, it's going to cost you. But we use it and we pay it right back to them.

You know, the commissary money you spend basically benefits that inmate. We do a lot of that in work release too. You can buy lawn mowers, weed eaters, work-release vehicles. We probably, on a daily basis, except Saturday and Sunday, 25 to 27 inmates go outside our jail and work. Now, what about the food program? Does any of that money go to a better food program, or is that its own thing? It's kind of its own thing, but we are kitchen food.

You know what? We serve three times a day. We do that in house also. So a higher little lady, I promoted her up to run in the kitchen. She worked in a restaurant for 40 years. So we order it from performance food comes in, and we do her own meals like that. Like tonight, no, that was it last night.

They had chili and grilled cheese. And that's usually the first thing they tell us when they get there. The food's great. Really? So, and it is really good. It's good, and that goes a long ways to be happy. Most people in the country say county food's the worst. Yeah.

That's got a terrible rep. Yeah. Well, I can see that, you know, but this lady takes great pride in her cooking. Matter of fact, if you go eat somewhere else, she's not happy about it. So I try to hide. If I want to go eat at Dury Queen, she don't know about it. Because she wants to feed me. What's your favorite meal there?

Probably, I'm a spaghetti kind of guy. I like the spaghetti. So, but now I like the chili also. That might be my second. Yeah. And they got, we have chicken planks. Chicken what? Chicken planks, chicken strips.

Those are really good too. Now, do you guys ever have scenarios where, like, say, a fast food restaurant has something that's, like, expiring or anything? Do they send that to the county for, like, a donation or anything? No. But a lot of times our local food bank, they're not a really big, they don't have a really big facility. So if they get extra, they'll call us and donate it. But in that jail, I can't take their food and give them something else.

So I have to feed whatever that meal is. We have to give them so many calories per day. I can add to it something extra maybe that the food bank is sent, whatever that may be. You know, so, and a lot of churches, they may have a homecoming, you know, and they may have extra food and say, can we bring it up there and feed your inmates? As long as they got enough. Own it all. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari.

In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly Big Board Buckslot Machine by Aristocrat Gaming, Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is giving one person a $1.6 million dream package. The biggest prize in Yamaba's history. Club Serrano members can earn daily instant prizes and secure a spot in the finale May 29th. Don't pass go and own it all. Only at Yamava, celebrating its 40th anniversary. U.N. Details at Yamava.com must be 21-20. Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. Creating a home with real character is all about the mix, and Serena and Lily make it effortless.

Their heirloom quality furniture is designed to live beautifully alongside the pieces you already love, from family antiques to one-of-a-kind finds. With over 150 fabrics and complementary design services, it's easy to create a look that feels truly yours. Get inspired at one of their 18 design shops or start exploring at serena and lily.com. Bring home timeless style as serena and lily.com. For everybody, I'm okay with it. Now, do you have to inspect that food, too,

to make sure everything is? And usually my kitchen, you don't get nothing past her. Nothing. She's really good. So she's going to inspect it. And it ain't going to be as good as hers, but she will inspect it.

Does she have inmates helping her? Yeah. Okay. We rotate females, males, you know, usually have three to four in there. And a lot of those guys and girls have never cooked in their life. And they learn that also. I think that's one of the best things about prison. It kind of produces chefs and trades that they can easily be hired at post-prison.

Oh, yeah, and they take pride in that. You know, they may ask me, did you eat that? And I'm like, why? Oh, I made it. You know, did you fit it? or something, you know, and they do learn a lot. I've had guys come in there that couldn't open a can of soup and warm it up and leave really good at it.

And I tell them, you need to go. My first thought I loved Waffle House. I said, you need to go to Waffle House and get a job, you know. But they learn so many things like that. The work release stuff, some of them. I had a guy. He ran a weed eater. all day long.

His supervisor, or guard, bragged on him. He said, man, he's amazing, Brian. I said, really? Yeah. He said he's not stopped all day. Watch him go. So he brags on him all day long. He had never ran a weed eater.

He said, you know what the only problem is, Brian? He ain't put any string in it all day. So he ran it with nothing. And he said, I don't have the heart to tell him. So next morning he put it in there for him, and I'm sure he realized the weed eater was better that way. Wow. But they learn that skill, and they get really good at it.

They learn how to mechanic. And Nathan will tell you, you got one guy in there that knows how to mechanic. Pretty soon you've got 10 guys in there that know. You know, they'll teach them how to do it, learn them tricks. And pretty soon they become good mechanics. Now, something I've always been curious about is pillows. Why do a lot of facilities not allow pillows? You know what?

They told me when I took it over. one might smother the other. That's what their reason was? I'm like, so they have to have a pillow to do that. You know, this is jail. Man, they'll find a way. I do allow pillows. And actually, that same lady, the professional sewer,

she'll make the pillows for them. You know, extra cotton that we got, we make the mats. That's what she does. I just feel like, I don't know, taking away someone's pillow. I'd have to have a pillow. Yeah. I can't sleep. I would take the jumpsuit and roll it up and use that as a pillow.

Yeah. Or they would make, that's a hustle in prison making the pillows, but guards would take those away. Yeah, we let them, but we issue them, you know, ourselves. So we don't allow anything like that brought in, but we'll, they're not really big, but they're enough. I couldn't sleep. Well, I could, but I wouldn't want to sleep without a pillow. Now, the thought process behind like the Bob Barker toothpaste and the deodorant and all that, Why is that?

Like, why can't they have, you know, a normal, like a travel size, like a name brand one? Well, we sell it in our commissaries. We provide that. Usually that's, to be honest, it's not a real cheap way out. But it's for someone coming in, someone that can't afford or doesn't have any money to buy hygiene. We offer them the Bob Barker shampoo, you know, which I told them their price wasn't right, you know, a Barker. price is right. They didn't think has as

funny as idea, but usually enough Bob Barker rolling up down here, you're going to buy something else. And like I said, we sell that pretty cheap, you know, during our spring. And my commissary lady,

she's got a big old heart too, you know, so if someone says, can you get this type of shampoo or that type breaks me out, she'll order she'll order something for them. Yeah, I mean, I think it's the flavorless bob. I couldn't use that, man.

It's terrible. To make the toothpaste, the shampoo, the odor, look all the same. I'd probably get them confused, you know. That company's got to make a killing. I wonder who they knew to get into the system everywhere. I believe it's really Bob Barker. Yeah, state, federal, everything.

That's what you think is behind it? I didn't know he was in. I didn't know they was in every place. I mean, everywhere, I mean, you're in, you know, the sticks kind of out here in Kentucky. Oh, yeah. They found us too, man. They found us.

They got you guys good. Wow, that's crazy. But we, like I said, you know, we make them shower when they first come in. So we give them that shampoo and that toothpaste and that deodor. And there's like a live shampoo in there just in case. And so that's really why we use it. Most of them, most of them buy the soap at a concert. What do you do when you come across an inmate that, you know, refuses to shower,

refuses to cut their hair or cut their fingernails because I was talking about this the other day with someone and that people do do that, you know, to kind of buck at the system in a way. Well, usually, the inmates kind of control that too. You know, you get a guy, you put him in a big sale. I mean, I go in those sales all the time and it reminds me of my mother when I get in there. That's weird. I know you're thinking that. And I won't tell you why. Because the sign says, if you pee on the seat, wipe it up, clean up after yourself. Believe it or not, inside there, you know, they're pretty clean. And so a guy comes in like that, I put them in the cleanest sale I got, and they talk them in to it. Do you guys have seats or is it all one?

Yeah, I don't know for sure how many seats that are inside those cells. It's kind of like a little table and chairs. Okay. I'm not sure how many is in that cell. What about the toilet seat? Is there one or is it all built in? Oh, yeah. You're talking about the toilet. Yeah, I was so good to know about the other seats too. In the big sales, you know, like the 20-man sales, there's two toilets. And they pick up the seat or no, or they're built in? They're built-in. So they'll use one for one, another one for two, you know what I mean?

Ah, so they have like a system going on. Yeah, it even says that. He toll it only. Are those the toilets that, like, you can only flush a couple times, or are they the power ones? Well, ours flush many times you push it, which it's a pretty newer facility. I think the back one, the back toilet has the shower next to it. So you imagine which one that is for. But they do that. They use them both and one's for one thing, one's for the other.

It's amazing how these rules develop in these facilities. Yeah. It kind of controls itself in there. Now, in these county facilities, are there politics at all, like prison politics that would stem in normal prisons or not really? As in what? Give me an example. I guess like when you have gangs,

like you've got to, you know, show paperwork or any of these things. Gangs ain't even got to Jackson County. We're so far away. We're just learning about it. But no, it's not.

It's like very chill. Yeah. It's, you know, the number one complaint usually we have is there's not enough. There's not enough goes on in this jail, man. We want some more action.

I mean, that's the truth. But as Nathan was talking, we've got those classes, MRT classes. We've got a lot of work release guys. We work a lot of. of them, you're getting trouble in you're out. So that kind of helps run it also.

You know, if you, for every five day, 40 hours they work, they get a day off their sentence. And those classes are really, really good that they have. And so you get in a fight, you cussed my guard, you're out of class. It helps run it really well. Can you get into, so you can be sentenced to your facility to do your time? Yes. Okay. So these are people that are pending. Class D.

Class D. Class D. And what does that mean charge-wise? Usually it's a, I'm trying to give you a good example. We, as Nathan said, we can have someone who's charged with murder. But only while he's being charged. Now, you know, once he's final sentenced, he shipped on to a prison somewhere. So usually you're like, most of ours.

98% of them are drug-related or the other percent, you know, theft, trying to think child support, things like that. But murders, we don't hold them while they're being tried, you know, and we've had them up to six years before. But those are the best inmates I have. And why is that? Hard to believe. I don't know why it works that way.

but the worst charges an inmate has, the better they are inside that jail. Really? I don't. And I've had some of some really bad charges that you would forgets inside that jail because they don't ask for a lot, they don't want much. I don't know.

I don't know why it's like that, but it is. Now, when you leave work, I know you said you like to be kind of hands-on and stuff. Yeah, I felt my phone moving. When you're leaving work, do you have, like, friends, family that ask you about your job that are curious about it because there is a huge fascination with the with the prison system. Yeah, and it's kind of hard to explain.

You know, it's a lot different than I thought it would be too. You know, some things, they think I'm the judge and the jury. Someone may come in on a DUI and be out before the cop gets home. Why'd you let him out? And I had to let him out. He got a bond. I can't hold him in there. And they want to know all kinds of things like that,

especially if you get a new inmate in and it has a really bad charge. You know, they want to know how their attitude he is, what kind of person they are. But not usually my immediate family. It's just a lot of my friends, you know, just curious about the job and used to. They want to know how in the world a preacher could be a jailer, you know. But it works out really well.

I was telling Jessica over a minute ago, usually if they call my name, like if they come down into the booking area or the medical part of it, and they holler my name, they're warning something, you know. And I love to give it, just don't aggravate me with it all day. So this guy wanted me, and I said, you know, what's going on? He said, my child's in the hospital, six years old, has pneumonia. And I thought he was wanting to go see it. So my brain starts turning how, I don't know, I don't think of it.

can do that. I was really hating to tell him I couldn't. And he said, I want you to pray for him. And I said, do you want to pray right now? He said, yeah. So we did. And when the prayer was over, tears filled in his eyes. And, you know, that's why I'm there. I can't do that every day. And I can't do it unless they ask me. And, but today, I don't know what time it is, but it's been a good day because of that situation. I have to be jailers sometimes. And I don't like that. But I do a lot of praying.

I'm going to bring this in, okay? This is who I am. Yeah, of course. I got in my life, so I can't leave him over there. He has to go with me. So I do a lot of praying. And when I get to do that part, I love it. When I have to be the jailer and a guard or anybody's done something he's supposed to,

I don't like doing that. I don't like having to fire someone. But when those things happen, I talked to God. I'm like, I didn't enjoy that. And one day he let me know something. He let me know that if I did enjoy that, then I didn't need to be there. So in my words of speaking, he was saying that's part of the job. But the fact you don't enjoy it means your heart's right.

You know, I don't want to see anybody lose the job. I don't want to see anymate locked down. I don't like that. I don't like to put them in the holes. We call it. Sometimes I have to, and I will be that guy if you make me. You know, and finally, I've earned that respect in that jail. I'll laugh.

I'll talk, I'll pray with you. I had one instance. This is a very good instance. This guy was screaming, kicking the door, cussing my guards, and I went in really mad. Believe it or not, preachers get mad, too. So I went in there, and I got in his face and we had a conversation, and so he hushes.

And I start out the door mad. He says, will you come back and pray for me? I said, yeah. So I get over there, and I said, man, I'm going to have to pray for me first. Let me calm down a minute. And I prayed for him. And I was as sincere in my heart as I would be any other time. That's great.

I like being that guy. I like being the guy. Like, I'm just telling you how it works. I ain't telling you anything. This is how I do it. I check Wednesday. No, today's Thursday. I checked Tuesday.

How many people in this jail has not got any money in a month? She gave me a bigger list than I was hoping for. So it's like eight people. Hasn't had any money in a month. Now, I'm not going to survive on three meals a day. I'm not. Well, just one tray at every meal. So what I did is, I got that list,

and I used my eight. and E.S. And some of them don't smoke. But what they do, they trade it. They trade it for noodles. You know, noodles are the greatest thing ever in jail. So I give every one of them an E.C. And some of them say, man, I don't smoke. We'll trade it. I had one guy he didn't smoke. He said, so when work release come in, I reward them usually once a week. And he come in, I hand him he said, yes, my cheeseburger for the day. He would take that. He would take that and trade it with one of his guy, one of his other inmates in there, to his cheeseburger on Friday.

Wow. We give him cheeseburgers on Friday, so he would trade it for an extra cheeseburger. So I've always, I've been hungry before. I have. At a time in my life, I sat in a restaurant across from my friends, I had no money on me, and I was hungry, and they were all eating. and why I used to wonder why God allowed that happened to my family because my mother,

Jessica, my mother is a godly woman. You know, she'd take my godly side and trump it every time. That's how good she is. And I didn't understand why we went through that. You know, hunger is a bad feeling. I'm not talking about I'm not ate lunch. I'm talking about I'm hungry.

So I sat there and I was hungry and I had no money. So they asked me if I wanted something and I said, no, because I was embarrassed. It happened a second time, and I never forgot that feeling. But now I know why God did it. I can't. I'm not going to feed you if you're hungry unless I've been hungry. I don't know what that feels like, you know, to an extent I might,

but I told God, I said, if you put money in my pocket, nobody will ever go without food. And he's always blessed me. That benefits me too. You know, I've always got money. And so when one of those guys doesn't have any money, I say, here, take this and trade it. But our jail, I'm going to compliment my inmates. It's not like a lot of other places. I'm sure Rock Castle is this way.

I know the jailer. He's a good dude. And, but our inmates. If you don't have anything, they share them with you. I know it sounds strange, and a lot of jails probably don't operate that way. But they do. And that's kind of why, you know,

I won't let them raise those prizes. I'm not, most of the time of grannie's feeding them. I'm just not going to do it. I can't do it because I know what it's like to lay down and my stomach not filled. And I am so. so thankful now. I went through those things. It wasn't fun then, but it made me a better Christian than I would have been without it. Do other jailers come in your facility to kind of,

you know, see what you're doing? Nathan should. It would help him a lot if he, sometimes they do. And do you go to other facilities at all to check it out? Well, I had a real good plan. When I won my election, I had a really good plan. I was going to go to these other jails and learn how to be a jail. But I got stuck in there three days later after I won. So I didn't get that opportunity. But sometimes if someone is running for that, they may come to me and ask me questions, how do you run this place? But really, if I sit down and had to give you a plan, it will be hard to do. It would be really hard to do. I run it on a daily basis and a individual basis. Some of those guys need you in their face. Some of them needs a pat on the back. It's just a different.

Some of them have never had a father. Some of them, and I'm telling you, that's probably what's wrong with our nation today, you know. My son needs a dad, even when he doesn't. think he did. Some of these guys, I have to be that to them. You know, some of them need that. And a dad sometimes is very corrective. Sometimes he's patting him on the back. So that's kind of how I do it. And I tell them my way, I doubt they would want to do it my way. My way base is based off my walk with God. I do show mercy. I do show grace, but there's also a time of judgment. And I had a lady sneak drugs in her jail three. times.

She's good. So she made the comment, he can't stop me. Now that made my face get red. So I approached her. I said, you're probably right. I said,

but I can't punish you. And I said, when I'm done, you're going to know how many blocks is in this sale. And I kept her up there for a few days.

And she told me how many blocks was in that sale, 3994. She said, I counted them. I hope I'm right. And you know what she said?

You broke me. I'll never do that again. That was hard for me. I am a, I'm telling you right now, I wouldn't lie to you, I'm a pretty forgiving guy. I am. That's why I got 900 contacts in my phone. Not because everybody like, it's just I forgive them, you know.

I heard Nathan talking, I had a lady or two boys steal my wife's car out of my driveway. I was a chairman for Unite, and I guess they thought I was some, you know, I was following them. I don't know, but I wasn't. Stole the car out of my driveway and burned it. And years later, that same guy came to my jail as an inmate. Do you know I put him in work release? I worked him and nobody ever knew who he was. And I was saying when he said that earlier, that's not easy to do.

but nobody knew that he had done that because I treated him just like everybody else. But sometimes you've got to correct them. I do not enjoy that at all, but I will do it because I ran for this job. I knew what it consisted of, and I'm going to love you, I'm going to give you mercy, but I will still be the jaguar. And it took a few years to get that across, and even to some employees. but I finally got it across and don't push me too far. Now change is extremely difficult for inmates.

What's that transition period like when an old jailer leaves and the new one comes in? Oh, they try you. They try me. They heard I was a preacher, you know. One of them said I was a pushover employee. So at the next staff meeting, I didn't call them out. Then we were embarrassing. So I embarrassed him.

I said, well, someone in here called me a pushover. want you stand up and come push me over right now. Here I am. He didn't get up. He quit. You know, so that was the part that was hard. They kind of want to use that against you. I have never, I have never said a word in there that I wouldn't use anywhere else. I've never said a word in there. I don't think that I would ever set in a church. So at first they wanted to use, I thought you was a preacher. And I'm like, what did I do that made you think I'm not? they don't use that much. They know they don't like it.

So that was a big transition. For them, for me, I changed things up a little bit, kept a lot of things the same. But once those inmates see that you're changing things for their betterment, they usually come on your side, you know, pretty quickly. So it wasn't that hard. It took a little bit of time. It almost drove me crazy.

but it took a little bit of time. And I just did, I had to change some things, you know. And I'm a pretty stubborn guy. If I'm right, I'm right. Until you see, until you... You wouldn't head into a new season with gear you don't trust. So why should your body be any different? What you put in your body matters as much as what you put on it.

At Azure well, we make foundational nature-based supplements and every formula is lab tested. No hype, no shortcuts, just results. look at what's in your cabinet, then visit Azurelivingwell.com to shop. That is A-Z-U-R-E Livingwell.com. These products have not been evaluated by the FDA and are not intended to diagnose,

treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Ready to buy a car, a home, or just want to take control of your money? Your FICO score matters and 90% of top lenders use it to make decisions. Check your FICO score for free today without hurting your credit score. Visit myfico.com slash free

or download the MyFICO app today. MyFICO gives you the score lenders use most, plus credit reports and real-time alerts to help keep you on top of your credit. Visit myfico.com slash free and take the mystery out of your FICO score. This podcast is sponsored by IQ Bar. Not to be a stereotype or anything,

but I am one of those go, go, go, go girls. So I have so much stuff that's always on my plate. And I always try to grab something on the go after the gym, and it's always so hard to find something that's actually going to be good tasting and good for you, right? Because every time you grab a protein bar that looks like it's going to be okay, you flip it around and you start to read the ingredient list, and it's all sugar, and it's all stuff that you can't even pronounce.

All I want is something good to eat. IQ bar is the better for you plant-based protein snack made with brain-boasting nutrients to refuel, nourish, and satisfy hunger without the sugar crash. IQ bar has low sugar, low carbs, and it's actually really good. Optimize your mind and body with IQ bars clean, functional products protein bars, hydration mixes, and mushroom coffees.

Go to IQ bar.com today and enter promo code Brain IQ to get an exclusive offer just for our listeners. 20% off all IQ bar products plus free shipping. That's IQBAR.com promo code Brain IQ. IQ bar.com code Brain IQ. Make me say I'm not. And then I'll change. An instance, the time this guard come to me, he listened to phone calls.

He said, that guy called you this name. I said, oh, he did. So I went in there. There was about five other people in the cell. I said, you called me that? No, I did not. I said, oh, yeah, he did. You did on that phone? No, I didn't. I was assured he did. So he said, I promised you, Brian. I did not call you in that name. I said, well, you're going to stay up here for a while. You know, lie to me to my face. I shut the door, and I went in list of he didn't call me that. So you know what I did? I went right back in that sale, and I said, I owe you an apology. You didn't call me that name. sorry. And he didn't know how to take that. He looked at me funny. But you know what? After that, man, he respected me. He said, you apologize to me. And I respect that. Actually, he got out of

prison. He spent, I don't know how many years. And he messaged me a day, told me to love me. And as Nate said, that's the greatest. I see people I go to church with that I may meet them on the road, they may not wave at me. I may have used my church to pay a electric bill for someone. They may not talk at me to me at the store. I have never met an inmate out on the street that didn't come up to me. I had one drive by the jail and he turned around and come back. He said, I just want to shake your hand. Thank you for bed. Now, I'm not telling you I'm perfect. I've made a lot of mistakes, but I'm just telling you the good sides of it. And he got a band of the car and left. This is how I feel. I can meet you today and be nice to him.

treat you good, might not even remember my name. But if I catch you at the lowest point of your life and I'm good to you then, you'll never forget me. I told my son, he was a little boy, I've always taught him to give the hunger part. I give him extra money. I say, you said, kid there are no money in school, you better buy it. So one day I said, his name's Derek, he wants to be a jailer. I said, you give a kid with $20 a dollar, He's never going to remember it. I said you give a kid with nothing a dollar, and he'll be your friend forever. And you catch a guy in jail, whether he's there one night or five years,

and you show him a little bit of kindness, and he never forget it. One guy came to our church, and he gives his testimony, he said, he changed my life. He pointed at me. I was like, really? I thought, well, I thought, what did I do? I must have said something really cool, you know. And I kept waiting for the punchline.

So finally, I was like, what did I do? You know what he said? He said, you was kind to me. And I said, that's all it took. This man was an addict for years. Today, somewhere today, he's in a rehab working, changing other people's life. So I usually take the Jesus at the wheel story. ever heard that? No, I haven't.

A little while. He made one woman at a well. They had no interaction. He was a Jew. She was a Samaritan. They had no interaction. They were not supposed to talk to each other. So he sat down at the well. He talks to her, treats her kindly. She gets saved. She goes back into the city and tells everybody. The whole city gets saved. And all that he did was talk to her and treat her with respect. And even in this generation, even in this crazy world we live in, it goes a long, long ways. If you've got a few more minutes, I'll tell you one more a little quick. Yeah, I'd love to. I took a guy home one day.

I said, I'm going to take him home. He lived in London. And the only reason I'm telling you this story is because I didn't do anything special for him. I just talked to him. He said, my dad beat me until I was eight. And the only reason he stopped then is someone killed him. you know, I didn't grow up that way. I had a great mom and dad.

So he turns with this question that I thought, oh, man. He said, why would God allow that happened to me? So I look at the windshield and I said, now, Lord, this would be a good time to help me. I turned back around. I said, do you beat your children? He said, I have never. I said, maybe God put you there to stop that curse.

that his dad beat him? He said, yes, and his dad beat him. I said, maybe we've got to put you there. So you'd stop this. He looks at me, he said, I never thought of that. I said, me either. I didn't think of that either. We get to a red light, and you know what this 50-something-year-old man says to me?

I never gave him any money. I didn't even pray with him. I don't know what I did other than we did. This is amazing. He said, you've been. better to me than anybody in my life. I say I've not done anything. I hadn't done anything other than give him a ride from the key to London. That's about 30 miles and talk to him. I learned a valuable lesson that day. It's not, I preach. I have sermons. But if I don't love you and treat you right,

no, that ain't matters. Kindness goes a very long way. It goes a long ways. God makes me give so much of it away. And sometimes I don't want to be kind. You know, sometimes. I don't want to be that guy. But if I've had any gift, I'm not a, I'm not the best speaker. I'm not the best preacher. I can't sing. Shoot, I can't even swim. I told you that. So, but I do, when I'm done with my work here, I want someone to say, you know, he was kind. If that's all I can give. That's what I want to be. What do you think's been the biggest challenge, you know, going from the role of a preacher to the role of a jailer? I mean, that's a night and day, you know, difference. But I'm sure there's similarities too and a way that most people wouldn't think of either.

Well, and God always has that. You know, he can, I'll never remember a story but a good friend of my steak trooper told a story about a guy. He, he didn't like all the ingredients that went into this food. So they asked him about all these ingredients. Do you like this? No, this, this is. But do you like biscuits? Yeah. You know, he didn't like any of the ingredients, but you like what it come into. So the Bible says all things work to the good. I love the Lord, God according to his purpose. So that's the way I look at it. The biggest adjustment was I have built a reputation as a preacher

as a friend to anybody, you know. I've never been drunk in my life. I'm fixing to really blow your mind again. I have never been high in my life. But I've done a lot of stupid things. So saying that, you know what, as a little child growing up into my, I just got my driver's license, you know who I was? I was the guy that drove the people around that was drunk. I loved being around them.

My mom said, son, you can find some of the roughest people to hang out with. I wonder if she still thinks that. You know, I mean, here I am. Now I live with a hundred of them. but God called me to be with those people. Called me in drug court. I said, Lord, I can't help these people. I've never been drunk and high.

And he used that word on me again. No, but you can love them. I said, that's what I'll do then. So being that guy that has to correct them, everyone will love them. So you know how I adjusted finally? I used, I do my children that way. I wouldn't correct anybody in that jail any other way

than I would my own. And so I don't punch them, I don't kick them, but there's means to correct them. You wouldn't believe how many times one of them gets in trouble and says, well, I'm sorry, I disrespected you. I mean, so I guess I kind of use it that way. But it was a really big adjustment, not so even much with the inmates. A lot of it was with employees. That was probably the hardest job I had was that part of it when I first took over.

They didn't think a preacher should be a jailer. But as I was, I guess it was Tom's Jessica, God, God is always in my life. He has everybody. They may just not recognize it. Put one of his people where you really need them. And what better place in the world than in a jail cell when sometimes mom don't answer the phone no more. And I tell you've got a mother and she doesn't answer the phone, you're in bad shape. Mm-hmm.

You know, so there I am. You know what I said when I was running for that, the greatest statement that come out of my mouth. Your slogan? My slogan right at the end. I said, if your child comes to jail, who do you want to be there? I left it at that. That's a pretty damn good slogan.

That was exactly what I said. And I had a woman approach me, and she said, when you said that, I said I'm voting for him because my son has been in trouble. guess where he works today? He works for me. I've got a guy in my jail that is one of my right-hand men. I messaged him over there many ago, went through drug court. He was an addict.

The woman he married wasn't an addict. They've been cleaned 14 years. So when somebody looks at me and says, I can't overcome drugs. I say, oh, yeah, you can. They say, you ain't never been out. No, but he has. Tell him that. Judge told his wife, he would never, she would never have her child.

She would never raise her child. Well, today she has five and adopted another one that the judge gave her. So I've surrounded myself with people that have been on the bottom so I can help people that are on the bottom. I never did like to do this. I'm a four-wheel. I don't, I hate to admit this as a man. I don't like to get dirty. I don't like mud, don't like dirt.

I don't want it under my fingernails. I don't want it on my clothes. I don't want it on my automobile, but spiritually speaking, and work-wise, I like to get down in the dirt with them and pull them up because those guys and those girls are the best friends you'll have in your life if you help them in the worst time of their life. And that's where God put me, and I'm going to do the best I can until I'm done here. What do you think is the biggest lesson the criminal justice system has taught you that you didn't ever look at or think of before you came into this role and something that you want to share? others. Oh man, that's a good question. I've learned a lot in that. Some probably not anything really at the top of my head, and it would probably be impossible for them to know some of these things. But when I see someone really making an effort, here's what really hurts.

This may not even be the question you have, but I'm going to use it. Here's what I see hurt some of these people. Old charges. They may straighten their life up for a year. And I'm not talking about murder or any kind of terrible charge. I'm talking about drugs or anything. You know, child support sometimes bites them. They may be doing good for a year. And then an old charge may come up and bite them. And then they have to come back to jail. And the first thing they say is what's the use. I've been doing good. Look where I'm at.

And I always used it. You ever raised a garden? Where are you from Connecticut? Yeah, Connecticut. Yukon. You're a Yukon fan? No. I do respect them, though.

They've took us out way too many times. The girls are the guys are both. Either one. But I wish I was. I would be a better, I'd be a happier fan if I was. Absolutely. They'd be like they went all the time. But anyway,

You ever raise a garden? Like grow a garden? Yeah. No. We call it raise. Raised. Yeah. That's probably the right, correct way.

I tell these guys, listen, whatever you plant is going to come back up. You plant, it may have been six years ago. Now you've got to deal with it. Here's what you do. You've got to reap this, but it's going to be over with. And you've been sowing really good seeds since then. Now, before long, you're going to come back. and those things are going to be in your life.

The good's going to come back. They're looking for anything. Help me. Tell me something good. I don't know that you can ever do anything with that. It's hard to prove. Hey, I'm really doing good. Because once you get that name, once you get that, whatever, idea that you're this person,

people are not very forgiven, you know, unless you help them somewhere down the road. But I promote these guys and girls. He was talking earlier, didn't ask me his question, so I'm going to answer it anyway because I want to. I've seen some people change. I don't, Nathan didn't have a percentage. I wouldn't know either. It would be really low. But goodness, if it's one out of ten, I mean, that's something, ain't it?

That's one person you're going to meet on the road that's not intoxicated. That's one person that is going to go find their children and say, I like to finish raising you. man I love that that's one person that builds a bridge back to mom and dad says there's a change in my life and I've not seen a lot of it it hurt me at first I want to change everybody that's my goal change everybody and he did hurt a little because they come back and they come back but I saw I ran into a guy today ran in that's I don't know if you talk like that in Connecticut yeah I didn't actually hit him head on you know talk like that I just saw him okay bump into soda in.

I'm like, the bumper ran. We say, hey, I ran into someone at the supermarket. That's normal, yes.

So I did. You body slammed him? No, I thought he had voted him. But, you know, a man, he has changed his life.

But you know what he told me? He said, my girl, she won't talk to me around certain people. But when it's just me and her, she does.

I said, you know what you want to do? I said, you know what you want to take advantage of the time? sheet gives you. Let the deal with the rest of it.

When that opportunity comes, take advantage of it and enjoy it. That man, when I made somewhat of a difference in his life, he's made a difference in people. I don't see. He goes under bridges where the homeless are.

Preaches of gospel, feeds them. I mean, you know, he's been there. He goes in, he comes into my jail now and witnesses to these people. and he makes a difference in their life. So if I get one out of ten, he may get the next two out of ten.

You know, he may get the next three out of ten, but that's still part of mine, you know, because I got you. And so I invested in him, so now that's part of my glory, you know, spiritually speaking, part of my glory. And if I die today, my work for God's not finished because he's still going on. He's a product of my kindness. And I'm sure not everybody would say, oh, I love Brian Gabbard.

He's the best guy. But if they're honest, I don't owe anybody nothing. If I owe you apology, I apologize to you. Ask my wife. Ask anybody, I will. If I'm wrong, I'll tell you. And that's how I live my life. And it works for me.

It may not work for nobody. Well, it would. It would work for everybody. But it works really well for me, and I know what it does. You know. But it's challenging. And, man, when I walk in that door of a Monday morning, I dread it sometimes. I love what I do, but it's challenging to me, and it's not always easy.

People say down here, maybe they say this Connecticut. You're shooting that Connecticut hard today. Holy cow. They say, you can't be good to some people. I say, you can be good to all people. It may not benefit you. You may not, they may not appreciate it, but you can still be good to them.

What stops you from being good to someone? You know, if I was only good to people that's good to me, the Bible said, I'm a Pharisee. In other words, that's not the right way. I mean, my belief, he died for everybody. And they use that on me sometimes. What about that guy over there of those charges? He died for him now.

Yeah. They question that. They get mad at me for telling me. for telling them. It wasn't my blood. I didn't die. I'm just telling you what it says. So to be good to everybody is not easy. And when I walk in that place sometimes, you know, somebody may say, they may call me somebody beside Mr. Gabbard on a phone call, if you know what I mean. They may call me a bad name. So I said, you call me a bad name? You know what they? I'm sorry. I was mad. I said, I was mad yesterday. I didn't call you a bad name.

what have I not done for you? And I'll tell you, you really want to get an advantage, be good to a man, and then let him do you wrong and say, is there anything you ever asked me I didn't try to help you with? No. You know, that's how I win them. You can be good to everybody. It just may not seem rewarding, but you can be.

And it's a very challenging thing, and I'm sure he, Nathan, feels the same way. It's a very challenging thing. Tires matter. They're the only part of your vehicle that touches. as the road. Tread confidently with new tires from Tire Rack. Whether you're looking for expert recommendations or know exactly what you want, Tire Rack makes it easy. Fast, free shipping, free road hazard protection, convenient installation options, and the best selection of Go to TireRack.com

to see their Go to their Goodyear test results, tire ratings, and reviews, and be sure to check out all the special offers. TireRack.com, the way tire buying should be. The day I stop doing it, I'll leave. Brian, thank you so much, man, for, you know, coming. You're just getting warmed up. No, thank you. I know you're a busy man. I appreciate you taking your time to come here and give, you know,

what I think will be very refreshing to a lot of parents who listen to the show who have children that or loved ones incarcerated. Can I answer one more question? Yeah, go for it. I heard this question. I got what advice would you give someone? if they have a child in the jail. I think I had to get up and leave for a moment.

I don't think I asked you that question. No, I think I'm kidding. But I would love to answer that right now. Yeah, go for it. The floor is yours. Man, don't give up on them. Don't give up on them. Because I see the sober side of them.

I mean, if I had to deal with somebody intoxicated, and I do when they come in. And that's, once they sober up, they're a whole different person. A lot of times I find I never known them. I know a guy, the only time I ever seen him, he was drunk. But when I got in there, I met him when he wasn't. This guy's not too bad a guy.

And they'll ask me and say, well, he didn't care about his children when he was on the street. Man, he was intoxicated. And yes, it's his fault. He shouldn't have done that. But you can intoxicate yourself so much that you don't feel nothing. So they have no emotion. A lot of this medicine, even people that take them, takes those emotions away from them.

I take your emotion away from you. You're not a person anymore. You know, you've become a robot. So when they're not that way, and they call and they say, I love you, Mom. Sometimes their mom says, well, you just want me to get you out. Not necessarily. Maybe he's really speaking what he feels now.

He just hasn't felt that. in a long time. I've got females. Listen, I've got, he may have pulled the plug on me. I got 20. I got 20 females. And 90 males.

Those females are rough. Sorry, girls. They're rough. But if I mention a child to them, they can't handle it. Tears come down their face. I've had some guard say, they don't care of that.

No, no, they're feeling that now. now they're not intoxicated. Look that word up. It changes your thoughts. Changes everything about you. You can't even drive a car right intoxicated. How are you going to raise a child right that way? Yeah.

Can't. Even the toughest people, you know, can feel emotion. Yes. Everyone has that ability. And when they get to that point, man, here is being my advice. When they call you, they're in that jail, and they're sobered up, take it, understand it. and it's probably real. Don't ever give up on them because I'm not going to, and neither's God.

And if they're not, and there's people out here, everywhere you look. They flood my jail with rehabs and churches and ministries every day. They flood it. So don't give up because strangers ain't giving up. Don't give up on them. Never. I'm going to hush. Thank you, Brad, for everything.

You're welcome. Thank you. Yeah, hopefully you don't have to work too hard the rest of the day. Oh, I will. Maybe you can enjoy yourself. Well, Tom, you just had a wonderful podcast interview and it kept you busy for a couple hours. Yeah, I'll tell him it was big, too. Some guy from Connecticut. Yeah, Yukon, baby.

Yukon. Yeah, Gene O-R-E-M-O.