Locked In with Ian Bick - Inside My 5 Years as a Rikers Island Prison Guard | Isaiah Finnie

Episode Date: May 11, 2025

Isaiah Finnie describes his five years as a Rikers Island prison guard, the violence he witnessed, and the challenges of working in the system. #PrisonGuard #RikersIsland #LifeBehindBars #TrueCrime #LawEnforcement #BrutalReality #CrimeAndPunishment #Survivor Connect with Isaiah Finnie: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rozay111?igsh=MTR3eGFxN2x5ZjUwMA== Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://convictclothing.net/collections/convict-clothing-x-ian-bick Timestamps: 00:00:00 Inside Look: Rikers Island Life from a Correctional Officer's Perspective 00:03:33 Challenges in Law Enforcement and Corrections 00:07:24 Becoming a New York City Correction Officer at 21 00:11:08 Growing Up in New York City: Choosing the Right Path 00:15:02 Challenges in Correctional Training 00:18:42 Relationships Between Correctional Officers and Inmates 00:22:41 First Experiences on the Job 00:26:43 Surrounded by Inmates: A Scary Encounter 00:30:20 The Reality of Being Mace-Sprayed 00:34:04 The Story of My First Real Fight as a CEO 00:38:00 Conflict Between New and Experienced Officers 00:41:51 Corruption and Contraband in Jail 00:45:33 The Flawed Criminal Justice System 00:49:14 Unveiling Workplace Corruption 00:53:02 Challenges in Correctional Facility Employment 00:56:47 The Hidden Valor of Correction Officers Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Embrace a floral and fruity scent inspired by Rio's nude beach with cheeky bikini. Or capture sun-kissed bliss with limonada gelada, where zesty Brazilian lemonade accord meets coconut milk and golden brown sugar. Don't miss Sol de Janeiro's limited edition perfume mist collection, only at Sephora. Isaiah, welcome to Locked In, brother. Thanks to Quill for connecting us, man. Shout to my brother, Quill. They was doing him dirty in the comments. I came to defend his honor, man.

Yeah, man. We were just talking that. He meant well. It just, it came off the wrong way. He, first off, everything he said was 100% true. I think he came off a little bit too strong. So the people in the comments kind of got rubbed the wrong way. but that's my brother

and I support everything you said. Yeah, I thought it was a real honest interview from a correctional officer's perspective. You know, I didn't see anything wrong with it. Right. And everyone's titled to their own opinion. And we have both sides. We equally have inmates that say, you know,

guards are terrible and this and that. So it's just the other side of it. You got to have a balance. Exactly. And if you get the insight from anybody, it's important to get it from somebody that knows both sides. he's a young black man that's from the hood.

You know, he, he, so he knows both sides. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, they kind of was going extra hard on him, but he said right, you know what I mean? Now, you guys met at Rikers Island too? Yes, I met him at Rikers. Except you weren't an inmate. You were at actual office here. Yeah, I was at true CEO on, I was in there from 2016 to 2021.

Where'd you grow up? Big Queens, New York. Who'd you grow up with? My family, you know, I had my mom in my life, I had my pops in my life. I'm real big family, so, yeah. And any siblings? Yes, I have two sisters, an older brother and a younger brother. Did they go and work for the city at all?

No. You were the only one. Yeah, I was the only one. My pops is actually AMCO, so I kind of, follow his footsteps. Currently a CEO? Yes, he got a year left. At Rikers?

At Rikers. You got to tell him to come on the show when he... I will when he retires, though. I don't think he would do it right right now, because you know... Yeah. How long has he been there for? He came out in 05. Oh, so he's probably seen a lot.

Yeah, he's seen... He was there for Leroy. He was there for all the heavy hitters. Yes, he was. Norman Seabrook. Yep. Were you there when Norman was there? Was that the end of...

No. I was there when... I forgot the guy name. His name was, I forgot his name. So Norman had already been arrested probably. Yeah, he was done after that. Okay, interesting.

Yeah, your dad would be cool to have on the show. Yeah, I could definitely get him. You know what I mean? He got a year left and then he's up for grabs. So that's allowed to have the father and son work at Rikers? I'm not really sure if it's allowed, but we did it. Okay. You know what I'm saying?

And my father, he was a very light guy, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, you could cut, you could get around anything, you know what I mean? Does he have a high rank there now? No, he's strictly AMCO. He never wanted to move up? Nah. Because, you know, as you go up, you get more responsibilities. He'd like to just go to work, do what he got to do, and that's it.

Would he tell you stories when you were a kid? Yes. He told me how it was back in the day. So when I got on the job, I thought it was that way. It was a total opposite. Worse or better? Worse. It was worse.

Yeah, as far as the department, they kind of want you to do the job with your hands tied. So it's like they want you to, they damn they want you to take. disrespect every day and not do anything. A lot of red tape. Yeah, it's like, as opposed to back in the day, it was more structure. You know what I mean? So when I came on, I came on 2016, it was like the start of the change. You know what I mean?

It's like, instead of saying, hey, get the fuck in your cell. It's like, can you please get in your cell? Please get in your cell. Nah, fuck you, CO. But please, I'm actually, like, that's kind of how they want you to do the job. It's probably a lot of policing, too. I've talked to a lot of old school cops who it's totally different. It's the same way.

And listen, don't get me wrong. I'm a young black male. I know there's certain cops that's straight assholes. I get it. But for every one asshole cop, there's 30 good cops. cops. You know what I'm saying? It's just because of content, the bad cops, that shit goes worldwide. You don't see the cops that you were speeding and they stop you and they say, all right, man, could get ahead about your day. Those, like, shit like that, that's not, you know,

what you would see on line. You would see the cops beating your ass. You know what I mean? Which, don't get me wrong, those type of cops, they deserve the book thrown at them. You know what I'm saying, but not every cop is like that. And they also don't show that when they do have footage of a cop beating someone up, if that person provoked it or not before. Exactly. Because there are some situations where that happens to. Exactly.

And I'm not giving no excuse because that's still no right to beat somebody ass as a cop. But at the end of the day, we're all human. I think everybody is entitled to fuck up except for cops. It's like, if you work at McDonald's, everybody at McDonald's has an attitude. If you go to the DMV, everybody in the DMV is an asshole. Cops just, they are expected to be,

you know, in a good mood at all times, do the right thing. You know what I mean? Which, don't get me wrong, they should always attempt to do the right thing. But at the end of the day, people are fucking, like, shit happens, you know what I mean? You can't really control how your day goes.

Yeah, and you shouldn't treat one just the same as, you know, the act based on the actions of another, and that's in any line of work. If you have a bad Starbucks customer service person, you're not going to treat the next one you encounter horribly. Right. Because that first one, you know, so it should apply to police officers too. Exactly.

So what was it that interested you about corrections to, was that like always your career path in mind or did you want to do something else? Nah, I don't think nobody grows up in saying, yo, I think I want to be a CEO. But my dad is such a cool, smooth guy. He made it look so easy that I was sold. You know what I mean? So when he became a CEO, he made good bread. So I'm like, yo, if my dad can do it, I could do it.

And I kind of always wanted to be like my dad. You know what I mean? So I took the test. They called me back in six months. I became a CEO at 21, bro. That was your first real job? It was my first real career. I worked at McDonald's and shit like that.

But I became a New York City correction officer at 21. And did you go to college at all or now? Yes. I went to college for two years. And I got my, what's the call? my degree. And is that a prerequisite to be a city employee for Rikers Island or no? When I came on, yes.

You had to have a certain amount of college credits. Credits. Oh, interesting. Yeah, but the job got so bad, they took that back and said, yo, fuck it. I don't care if you know that college credit. Just come on the job. Yeah, because I talked to guys recently that only lasted like a year or two

and they didn't need a college diploma. Yo, bro, they took so much shit off the day. table like, yo, fuck it, just come because the job is so bad. Now, did you want to be a police officer at all or now? No, I didn't want to be a police over. I didn't want to be a cop at all because I wanted to be able to go to work and come home and leave work there. I feel like as a cop, you're a cop 24-7 in some way, if that makes sense.

You know, it's like I wouldn't say, I would. was ashamed, but like, I'm going to have a person. I don't like people really knowing what I do for work. So I kind of want to do what I got to do, leave and keep it there. As a cop, you're kind of like a cop all day long. You know what I'm trying to say? So that's why I really didn't want to be a cop. Like, I don't want to be like out there right on front street.

You know what I'm saying? But isn't Reicher similar in a way where, you know, there's a lot of people, even though New York City is so big, you run into so many people you know. Yes. It is, it's just like being on the street. It's just you inside, if that makes sense, you know what I'm saying? But still, I just, I just didn't want to be a cop, bro. And at the time, I know a lot of COs and all of the guys that I know, they were cool. Like, they were, you know what I mean? They would go to work, come home and still be cool. I never really met no cops that were cool until, but I'm talking about back then

like when I applied for the test I'm like cops is like, eh, you know what I mean? All respect to them because they have a tough job as well but it's like I just didn't want to be a cop. How do NYPD cops treat correctional officers in New York? Because you guys both have badges, you both have guns. It's 50-50.

When I was there and I would get stopped by a cop, if they would see the badge, um, majority of them would be like, all right, cool, get ahead. You know what I mean? But if you coming across like, yo, I'm on a job too. Like, yo, back up. They're going to come with you not on my job.

And they're going to be kind of, you know what I'm saying? So every encounter I had with a cop, it was good. You know what I mean? There was no problems. And, yeah. How did your friends react to you wanting to become a correctional officer? When they found out, they can't, when I would come back to the, I'm hood, they'd be like, you ain't no cop Jay Reid.

You ain't no cop Jay Reid. And if you ever seen the movie, in too deep. No, I never saw that. Yeah. It's the guy he was playing an undercover cop. And at the end, he found out, and at the end, they found out that he was a cop. So the dude was like, you ain't no cop, you know what I mean? So that was like the, you know what I mean?

Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. All my friends had mad jokes and shit. Did a lot of your friends end up in prison or on the streets, or did they have successful careers? I have 50-50. 50% of my friends are in the street, 50% of, percent of my friends are doing the right thing.

Do you think that applies to most people growing up in the neighborhood you grew up and in New York City in general? I think so. I think so. Like, I'm the type of person. I was always around the bad shit, but I just chose to do the right thing. You know what I'm saying? But I'm still in twine with the guys that do the bad shit.

But I just chose to do. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day. like superheroes and side ticks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Pool days call for cookouts and lots of laundry. This Memorial Day at Lowe's, save $80 on a charbroil performance series four burner gas grill.

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Maximum range based on EPA estimated combined fuel economy and a full tank of fuel. Actual mileage and range may vary. Who did the right shit. What do you think is the biggest difference for someone like yourself to choose doing the right thing? Because we hear so many people that grow up in the city that choose not to do the right thing and go down that path and grow up in the same environment as you. I think for me, I never wanted to let my parents down. so I chose to do the right thing just because I always wanted to make them proud

you know what I'm saying so that's why I chose to do the right thing but being from the hood it's super easy to get caught up in a whole bunch of shit bro like I know guys that had everything they wanted as a kid didn't have to fend for themselves had food clothes

and they still chose to do the wrong thing just to fit in you know what I'm saying so it's like it's very easy it's only two ways so you got a 50% chance of going the right way and the 50% chance to go in the wrong way you know so it's very easy to get caught up in the mix and you growing up in the hood you got friends that's that might get involved with some shit like say you out with a friend and he got beef and you end up And he ended up fighting. You being from the hood, you got to help him.

So you defending your friend, boom. The next thing you know, the cops come. Now you locked up for assault. Or because you wanted to be there, you know, to be there for your friend. Now, if you didn't help and you sat there and watch your friend get jumped, you go back to the hood. They're like, yo, what type of time are you on? Now you got beef with all your friends because you didn't help.

You know what I'm saying? So it's real easy to get caught up in dumb shit. By the grace of God, I skated my whole life and not getting into any, you know, not getting into any real, real shit. What was the test like to get into corrections? The test wasn't hard, but you really had to read. The test is they give you what you need to know. Like they would give you a long text and you have to pick what makes sense.

So they would say like if you see an inmate doing this, you should do this. And then on the next page they say, what should you do if you see? You know what I'm trying to say? So the test is pretty common sense, but you got to read. You got to read because it's real easy to get caught up. And they asked the same question mad times in a whole much of ways. So you really, really got to read. Are they more like life scenarios rather than actual like corrections, you know, prison type of questions?

Like, you know, when you apply for like Target now or Walmart, they have a lot of like life scenarios. I think it's mixed. I think it's, it's that and that. You know what I mean? I think it's mixed. I didn't take the test in like 2015. So it's kind of like, but I think it's both. What about the physical training aspect of it?

Yes, you have to be in shape. You know what I mean? Don't get me wrong. It's kind of hard to fail. They're going to make sure you get through, but they expect you to be in some type of shape. Yeah, there's a lot of out-of-shap correctional officers. Yeah, they expect you to be in some type of shape.

But they need so many employees, bro, they're going to just scoop you through, you know what I mean? Did anyone fail in your class? I didn't see nobody fail, but I seen people not being able to do what was required to do and they still got through. You know what I mean?

So do you think that makes people unprepared for the job when they actually get there? No. I think being in tip-tip-tap shape is 5% of the job. That's 5% because girls can do the job

and no disrespect to girls but come on. You know, a 6-8 guy can beat a 5, for a girl. So being in tip-top shape is 5% of the job. You know, that's a hot topic, how women work in men's correctional facilities

and men work in women's correctional facilities. Yeah. What's your take on that? Females, they can definitely do the job. A lot of females that I work with can do the job better than men. The guys that's doing time, they want a female on the floor. So nine times nine to ten,

the guys is going to keep cool because they want the female, you know what I'm saying, there. So it's like a girl don't really got to say much. Like guys that's doing time, if they need to do something, a girl could come and say, hey, Smith, can you do that for me?

He would like, all right, cool. if a guy come and tell the next guy, hey, Smith, can you, man, ah, you know what I'm saying? I'm saying? So girls can really do the job better than men in a lot of ways. So do you think having more female staff is better to help reduce violence and infractions, anything in the prison system? I wouldn't say that. It's a catch-22 because they can be great COs, but at the same time, they can cause a lot of problems too. you know what I mean if you're doing time and you think you caught a vibe with her and she's just doing her job

the next guy feel the need to be disrespectful to her that guy who thought it was a vibe between him and the girl going to yo you know what I'm saying and it could be a problem that way a lot of jealousy right so it's like it's a catch 22 do you think male guards or woman guards are more corruptible or is it equal and it doesn't matter based on race, or I mean gender. From my experience, it's equal. Because a lot of males, they fall victim too. I know a lot of males that brung shitting,

and I know a lot of girls that brung shitting too. So I think it's like this. Yeah. What's your opinion on female correctional officers having relationships with male inmates? For starters, there's a million officers there. If you want to date at work, pick an officer.

If you really feel like this inmate is your soulmate, just wait till you get out. Listen, love love is blonde. If you feel like this is your soulmate, just wait until you get out. Why risk your whole career? The

academy is six months. You're going to tell me you went through the academy for six months, got sprayed, had to do mad push-ups, do all that, Just to fall in love with the inmate and due time, that don't make no sense to me. Do they teach you about that in the academy? Yes, that's a big portion of the academy.

What is that training like? They tell you, if you were ugly before Rikers, you're ugly in Rikers. Which means don't let no dude try to, yo, you know what I'm trying to say? Try to talk you into feeling like he is in love with you. If you were ugly before Rikers, you were ugly in Rikers. that's the exact quote and as far as guys guys fall victim

in the whole other way the guys kind of get cool with them and you kind of feel like entitled to bring shit in or the guys kind of like put you like in fucking fear like yo if you don't bring this shit it's going to be problems ah

so if you're not strong up here you're full a victim and it don't even got to be being in a fair some people like that money A phone And there is probably like a couple thousand dollars If you bring in a phone

He's going to cash app you a couple thousand dollars that day I've had dudes come to me like yo F I got I got this for that One cigarette you can get Hundreds of dollars for one cigarette It's crazy It's crazy I personally didn't indulge in that

But I've seen a lot of people for a victim Do you think it goes back to what you were saying about, you know, as a young kid, making the choice to go onto the street life or stay on the straight and arrow? Do you think it applies to that? That's exactly what it applies to because every inmate is going to approach you. You have that split second to figure out, hmm, do I want to go this route or do I want to go this route? And it's a, to me, the choice is not hard. But to a lot of people, their choice is super hard.

Oh, and it's interesting how some guys will make the choice to not go into street life and then get to Rikers and then decide to join the street life. But that part is crazy. But a lot of CEOs are from the street. A lot of CEOs is from the street. Yeah, like blood member, correctional officers, everything like that. Yeah.

So how do they get hired? The same way. They just hide that part of their life. Even if they have like gang tattoos or anything like that? When you get on the job, they put you in the room. They make you take all your clothes and they take a picture of every tattoo. Oh, as a correctional officer? Yes.

So if you have a gang tattoo, is it automatically fired? I mean, I don't have a gang tattoo, so I wouldn't know for sure, but I'm assuming so. But you can explain each tattoo. So they're going to ask you, what does this tattoo mean? If you have big bees on your chest, you could say, my mom died, her name started with the beat. You know what I'm saying? You can say anything you want to say.

So, guys find a way around that. And then there's mad gang members that don't get gang tattoos on them, but still involved, you know what I mean? Yeah. So your first day on the job, what was the biggest surprise shock to you compared to what your dad had said? My first day on the job.

So, you know, when you first started, you kind of like with somebody like you're not like like in the field by yourself you kind of like with somebody so I was with this guy and a guy doing time asks the CEO to borrow his pen to write something the MCO was like yo don't ever give your pin to these guys because they can use it as a shank right When the CEO backwards turned, the inmate lift up his shirt, he lifted up his shirt and showed me a big shank. He said, yeah, bro, if I really wanted to cut you, I would.

He lift the shirt down. That was like, I don't know if it was my first day, but that was my first week. So what do you do in a situation like that? You're brand new. Are you telling on them? Are you snitching them out? You want me to be honest?

Yeah. I told the senior office, I'm like, yo, this guy got a shang on him. He was like, I don't think he did anything, but I felt I did my part by telling him. You know what I mean? I'm like, this guy is my CEO, so he would know what to do. How did you react when you first came across someone you knew from the street? The first time, it caught me of guard.

I'm not going to lie. I'm like, oh, shit, it caught me of guard. but it started to happen so much I'm like it just started being the part of you know what I mean do you have to report that you're supposed to

you are supposed to but I didn't though yeah that's what got thrown me in the shoe for three months oh for real yeah the guy reported I used to date his cousin he came over to my house once for a barbecue wow we weren't even that close he's such a pussy for that

I know literally crazy but he was a super cop coming to find out he had a lot He had half the guys in the shoe jammed up for cell phones and stuff. Yeah. And as a CO, you never want to be that guy. Yeah. You don't ever want to be a super cop.

What was your mentality going in? Like, how did you know what kind of CEO you wanted to be? Um, like I said, I'm a lot like my pops. So my pops is a real chill, smooth guy. So I'm like, if he did it this way for so long, it works. So I just went with that way. I'm like, yo, I'm a cool guy. However, I don't tolerate disrespect.

So if you take it there, I'm going to take it there. But nobody that's in that type of field goes to work saying, I want to have a bad day. Everybody wants to have a smooth, good day. So I will come to work with that on my brain. Like, yo, let's have a good, smooth day. You know what I mean? It's kind of an art dealing with people that's locked up.

It's an art because depending on what mood they're in, you got to adapt to that. If they're happy, adapt to that. If they're mad, you kind of kind of adapt around that. You know what I'm trying to say? Like, because if he's upset, your job as a CEO is to find out, okay, how do we, turn his mood around. You know what I'm saying? So I would go into the work and I would try to have a great day, bro.

A bored day on in that job is a good day. If you are bored, that's a good day. That's a great day, actually. Tell us about a time you had a bad day there, maybe one of your first times. I had plenty of bad days But the ultimate baddest day If that's the word was When I got drunk by six guys

Is that the video you showed me? Yeah, it's pretty great But the other guards were like standing Well, you explained it Yeah, I mean, okay so Tell us everything that happened That housing area They was going outside

So at the time It was this new thing where It may's had like An ID ban And each checkpoint, they had to scan the thing. So, like, if this house is going out, each guy had to scan. Beep, beep. It was so stupid.

But so our depths was like, yo, make sure that they scan, you know. Make sure they did scan. That's the thing about the job. If they want you to do something and you don't do it, they say, yo, we're going to hit you. You're going to get in trouble if you don't do this. Instead of holding the inmates, you know what I'm saying, accountable for what they don't do. If the inmate don't do something, the correction officer is held accountable.

So it was these these bands, they was like, yo, make sure they scan each time they go in and out. So he was going outside and the guys was playing around like they didn't want to scan. So I'm like, yo, fellas, if you're not going to skin, you're not going to wreck. and you know how important going to record is you know what I mean so they just kept

playing around kept playing around and then it started to get a little tense I'm like I'm not opening this gate if y'all don't scan these bands and when I said that

they started to surround me and I um they say yeah what like people in general are the toughest people in the world, bro. They say, yeah, what? And we had words, and it started getting, you know what I mean?

At the time, I'm surrounded, so I'm like, in my head, I'm like, okay, what's my next move? The guy, the other correction officer, a guy that was there, no disrespect to him. This is in the past, but I kind of had it in my, my head that he wasn't going to help me. The girl, which ended up, she did help me, but at the time I didn't know. So I'm going into, I'm like, I got to kind of plan this out knowing that I might not get help. One of the guys, he flinched at me. So in my head, I'm thinking he just punched me.

So when he flinched, I kind of backed up And I kind of like I kind of do a punch at him Once I threw the punch They was all on me They was all on me after that You know what I mean? And then The girl thankfully Shout out to her

She sprayed She sprayed And they all kind of dispersed When they dispersed I couldn't see anything Because she sprayed me in the mix of of, she sprayed them,

but I got sprayed too. So, um, she sprayed and I felt one guy. And I kind of like, pick him up and took him to the ground. You know what I mean? And after that, it was over. I couldn't see anything.

I'm like, ah, my eyes. And if you ever got sprayed with Mace, bro, it's a type of feeling you can't get used to, bro. I don't care how many times you get sprayed. That feeling, you... This place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save?

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It's days, bro. Do you have to go to, like, an eyewash station or something? I mean, you just go to the sink. Like, they don't give a fuck about this. You go to the sink and so if you want, you can go to the doctor, but it's really just time. Tom is what gets it out. Did you get hurt at all? Like bruises, marks on your face?

I didn't get no marks or no bruises, but I got hurt if you know what I'm saying. What happens to the inmates in a situation like that? What's supposed to happen? They're supposed to get Charles again and re-rearrow. arrested. At the time, gang intel, the guy that was on gang intel, he was pretty hands-on and he was doing what he was supposed to do, but I don't think nothing ended up happened to them or I think like two got charged, but I can't recall. But I remember seeing them again after I got drunk. And did they go to the shoe? That's the thing. There's no box

no more. Oh, they got rid of the box completely. Yeah, they've been got rid of the box. And these was young kids. So what happens when they just go back into the unit? Pretty much. Do they get locked in their cell? They might get locked down for that day. You know what I mean?

But like I said, bro, Rikers Island, it needs a whole restructure, bro. It's super bad right now, bro. Well, it was bad when I was there. I can't speak for right now, but I got friends that's still in the job, and they tell me it's the same shit. Like, as a CEO, you really don't got no power, bro. You really don't got no power. It's like you caught in between the rock and the hard place.

The supervisors want you to do your job by the book. But if you ever walk inside Rikers Island, you can tell from the first step in that it's impossible to do your job by the book. It's impossible, bro. They want you to lock every inmate in by 9 o'clock because that's the time. The sales don't work. How the fuck I'm supposed to lock in 30 people here for murder in the cell when the sales don't work? How do you expect me to do that?

You know what I mean? They want you to make sure every inmate has a top and the bottom. If they make come out of the cell and say, yo, fuck you. I'm not putting this shit on. It's hot. What do you want me to do? now you can do your job but you know we're doing your job

gonna come with getting into a physical altercation yo fam put your shirt on before we walk out here no

put your shirt on now you and him going back and forth he say yo suck my dick and hokhtool and spit in your face now you get into a whole situation because you're trying to do your job So, like I said in the beginning, they want you to do your job with your hands time. And it's damn that impossible, bro.

It's damn that impossible, bro. Do you remember the first time you were disrespected and how you handled it? Um, I don't remember the first time I was disrespected because as a CEO, you probably get disrespectful for five times a day. But my first real, real fight, I remember that. as a CEO back then we had Cargoes with a side Pocket hair side pocket hair

I had a bag of chips In my pocket An inmate He went my pocket and took my chips So it's like I'm like I fucked up because I shouldn't have them out like that But I didn't think an inmate was going to go

My pocket and he took the chips So he went in my pocket and he took the chips Right then and there as a brand new CEO, because this happened when I was still new, as a brand new CEO, you have a choice to make.

You got to either nip that in the bud right now or the inmates is going to disrespect you for your whole time here. So I chose, all right, I got to do something because he did it in front of the mad other people. So I'm going around the room, I'm telling him, like, yo, bro,

just give you back the chips and be good. he's like, nah, fuck that. I'm not giving, I'm not giving the chips back. So I'm trying to reach for the chips, you know. And at this point, I don't even care about the chips, but I can't let you have the chips. One, if a captain or a dep come here and see you eating chips, I'm getting in trouble for bringing you contra, man.

You know what I mean? And if you eat the chips, all the other inmates are going to be like, yo, this guy is soft. You know what I'm saying? So I'm going around the room trying to get the chips. I end up snatching him He pushed me I pushed him back

He had the nerve to feel offended When I pushed him after he pushed me So he's like yo what what He threw up his hands We started to you know go back and forth He swung He missed I swung

It connected And his whole mouth was bleeding So Even though in my heart I knew Even though in my heart I felt like I can beat this

got in the fight at that moment I was scared because he was bleeding I'm like oh I'm gonna get fired you know what I'm like oh shit so I'm like oh shit so I hit him

he started bleeding instantly I'm like oh shit and then you know once some shit like that happened you hit the bell and everything woo everything you know and then that was like

my first real real fight how are the older officers trading a young guy like yourself. Like I say, a guy that's been on the job 20 years and there you are as a newbie, 21-year-old. It's just like any job. The guys with Tom, they like the shit.

Not shit on the people that's new, but like, yo, listen, you do it this way. But the problem with the guys with Tom on the job, they want you to do the job from their standpoint. when I came on, you couldn't do that. Back in the day, like before all these cameras that was in there, if an inmate act up, a CO would be like, you know, don't get me wrong.

Back in the day, it did happen. It did happen. It was a lot of abuse. It was a lot of fights. It did happen. But we got so far past that. that the COs from that time, they expect you to be like that with these new inmates.

And at the end of the day, you can't. You'll be in jail if you put your hands on an inmate right now, as opposed to back in the day. So a lot of the conflict with the new people on the job, with the old people in the job is like they have high expectations for you, but it's like, yo, I can't do. what you did. You know what I'm saying?

Like it's just impossible. They want you to do the job how they did the job. Yo, but back of my day I had the whole house on lock eye. Oh yeah, because if the inmate act up, you can slap

the shit out of the inmate and nothing happened to you. Of course you had the whole house on lock now. You know what I'm trying to say? Me coming on is cameras everywhere so that's slapping the shit out of somebody

is out of the question. You know what I mean? Of course you can defend yourself, but they damn near got to hit you first. So that was the divide between new officers and guys with time. Do you think the cameras reduce violence in there? Or deter it? It reduced the violence of COs hitting on inmates.

It reduced that. But as far as inmate on inmate assaults, it didn't stop nothing. It's probably assault every day. What percentage of officers would you say are corrupt? I'll probably say, I'll probably say anywhere from 10 to 20 percent. Do you think that's high? I think 1% is high. Nobody should be corrupt.

So let's just say, if one CO brings in a scapul, right? and that inmate cuts 50 COs. That's terrible. So I think nobody should be corrupt. That's just my opinion. You know what I mean?

That's just my opinion. Now, how do you get in something like that? Isn't there security in place to prevent cards? Like, say a cell phone, aren't you not allowed to bring a cell phone in? You're not allowed to bring a cell phone in. However, we still got to come into work. So if you come into work with your phone, you get changed, you know, you already pass the checkpoint.

So why don't they stop it at the checkpoint? Because you're supposed to lock it up in your locker. Before the checkpoint. People lock after the checkpoint. So why don't they just confiscate the phone then? Because you're held to the standards of when you come to work, you're going to put yourself phone in your locker. Wait, so there's no

metal detector you have to walk through? Yeah. It's a checkpoint to make sure you don't got like no scabble guns, but people have phones, so you're expected to put your phone in your locker. So you're allowed to walk into the building with a cell phone? Correct.

But you have to put it in your locker. You're expected to put it in your locker, which they held the lockers behind the checkpoint. So that's the problem of how these phones are getting in. That's one of the problems, but it's not just the COs. There's plenty people on the job that's not correction officers.

Like janitors, vendors. You got doctors. There's a whole bunch of programs that they got. So if this house is going to a program, this person is not a CEO, but she's running the program. She might bring the phone in. there's so many people on the job that's not COs. Do they go through the same screenings and are they held to the same standard? As far as what?

Getting on the job or getting through the building. Through the building and then the locker room for phones. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody is held to that. But bro, one thing about jail, bro, where there's a will, there's a way, bro. Like, corruption is something that you just not going to be able to stop. You know what I'm saying?

How advanced are the checkpoints? Is it like TSA advanced or is this like a basic, you know, like courthouse lobby checkpoint? Um, you got to put your stuff through the, the, um, scan shit. And then you got to walk to, to, to the, um, you know, how you. Yeah, the metal detector. Yeah. But if you, if you're not seen anything, you're good. If you don't ring, you're good.

What was the strangest, uh, contraband item you found on someone? me personally I didn't find anything strange I will find a shank or something to whom smoke but I never found anything strange it's either drugs or a shank that's it are you finding a lot of drugs in there yeah it's drugs all over

what is the most popular drug in there um right now well when I was in it was paper K2 like deuce yeah they would spray the paper with all type of shit and they would sell that as, you know what I'm saying? Do they implement making photocopies in the mail like they did in the feds?

Yes, because so many people were sending paper with sprayed shit on it. Yeah, when I was in the feds, they did that, no colored paper, and then they just started photocopying eventually. But I'm not going to allow, bro. It sounds good, but it would be, you would be photocopling for days, though, bro. There's so many people there like. Yeah, like that got mail. I mean, the feds do it, though, but.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. It is pretty crazy, though, the manpower you need to photocopy every person's mail. That's insane. Just think of the amount of people. And then we talk about NYC. There's 10, 13 jails just on one spot. And you got MDC.

Like, there's so many people locked up. That would be kind of insane to do. How easy would it be for a guard to bring fast food or any type of food to an inmate? That's super easy. That's super because that don't ring. So you could bring a fucking two fucking, you could bring anything. You know what I mean?

You could bring it because you would, the people who at the front gate would assume that that's your lunch. So you're allowed to walk in with food? Yeah, but your bag has to be, your bag has to be, um, see-through. So anytime you walk in, your bag that you bring has to be seet-through

so they can see anything in it. But food is food, though. They just like, go ahead. Do a lot of guards give that? to the inmates? Food? I mean, guys that

do shit, like, if you're on some type of work crew, they might give you food. You know what I mean? But I personally didn't give nobody food,

but I'm not mad at food. I'm mad at drugs, shanks, you know what I mean? Anything that puts other people in harm as well. You know what I'm trying to say?

Yeah. Do you think most of the inmates there are actually guilty, or do you feel, do you come across inmates that are genuinely innocent? I think there's plenty of people that didn't do it. But I think the people that did do it, it's way more people that did do it than that did not do it. I think there's plenty of people in jail that's in there for a crime that they didn't do. the whole system is flawed

and needs worked from the ground up you know what I'm trying so yes I do believe there's plenty of people that's sitting in jail right now that didn't do it how do you feel about the bail system um do you ever see guys that are just ruthless in prison causing a lot of trouble that get bail

and then you also see guys that shouldn't be in there that don't get bail yeah yeah I do um I see both sides a lot And just like I said, the whole system is fucked up. The law itself is just, it's all fucked up. It needs a restructure from the bottom up, starting from the cops. When the cops stop you all the way to you go into court, sitting in jail, going back to court, going to prison. Everything needs a new structure because it's all fucked up.

Now they're talking about closing Rikers. Is that possible? they've been talking about that for years even before I got on the goddamn job but um it could happen but I really don't see it happening because it's an ideal spot

for what it's for what it's for it's for it's an island yeah it's an actual island so it's like I don't see it happening because where you're going to put all those people don't nobody want a jail in there backyard. You know what I'm saying? In order to close it now, you have to put a jail here, a jail here, a jail here, a jail here, a jail here, a jail here, a jail here, a jail here. So where would you put all of

those people? Is the purpose to close it for, to rid out corruption? Is that what the purpose is? Like, what, what are they telling you internally? That's what they, that's one part of it, but, I mean, actually, corruption is not even like the whole the whole why they want to close it down. It's dirty. It's on garbage.

Like, it's a whole, it's a whole bunch of talks of why they want to shut it down, but the shit don't, like the people that's inside there, the shit don't work. It's a whole bunch of why they want to shut the shit down. What happened to the shoe?

What are they using that for there? Um, don't really know. I don't really know. But guys who do crime, like, they don't really go to, like, the box box. They got rid of the box. Like, you might do time in the box if you still want to call it that, but you come back and then go back. Like, it's all, like, being there is so different from doing time time. Like, it's so different.

Have they had renovations or anything or upgrades to the facility during those five years you work there? Yeah. they brung new cells where I was at but those quickly got fucked up like these guys are smart bro they can find a way to fuck with the cell so they won't lock you know what I'm saying like these guys don't got nothing but time bro

how often do politicians walk through there like say the mayor is he going through there the mayor don't walk through a lot but he walks through there's plenty people in those spots that walk through and do you guys show an honest representation of it? No.

And that's the problem. When we have guests, like those type of people, the supervisors say, yo, make sure everything is good. Make sure everything are tip-top shape. So when they walk through, they're assuming everything is

ran well. When it's the total opposite, this shit is fucked up. If they saw what was really going on, maybe they can fix something. But when they come, we all got to put on a show like on some hey this is how

and the problem is when they have guests they take them to the best behave houses so it's like yo why are you taking them there you know what I'm trying to say so it's like no they don't show the real real what's going on and what would happen if you guys spoke out like say everything you're saying now

if you spoke out to one of these government officials doing a walkthrough What would happen to you? To be honest, you'll be blackboard. You'll be on the worst post. You'll be, get the worst vacation picks. You would like, they would do you dirty. That's, it's corruption on both sides, not just the guys doing time.

People that's on the job, it's super corruption. If the supervisor don't like you, you end for a long ride, bro. they're going to make sure you do the most overtime. They're going to make sure you, in the worst spots, they're not going to give you no break. They're going to try to fuck you any way they can if you piss off the wrong supervisor. Don't piss off the wrong supervisor that's in high power.

You're done for it. How did the administration and higher-ups feel about guards, former guards doing interviews? Because you were around that time where podcast, started to become popular. People like yourself were doing interviews back then in the past years. Did they say anything about that?

Technically, if you're on the job, you can't really speak about it. Like, that's in fine print. When you first, first get on a job, they tell you, like, don't do no type of, you know, shit like this. But I'm off the job now, so I can say what the fuck I want.

Why did you decide to leave? I decided to leave, one, because, the job was becoming a strain on my piece, bro. And I'm a real easy-going guy. Before I got on that job, I used to believe people who were depressed was just saying depressed.

Like, yo, there's no such thing as depressed. Just don't be depressed. You know what I'm trying to say? But being on that job, bro, I finally realized what depression was. I started to drink a lot of alcohol I started going out a lot, just partying, just to take my mind off that shit, bro.

And I was one of the ones who had it good in there. Like, overall, I had a good in there. And I still was depressed. You know what I'm trying to say? So it was like, that job, bro, anybody can do it, but it's not for everybody. I got friends now that's about to start. They'd be like, yo, bro,

um, what, um, yo, I'm, I'm about to be in a job. I, I said,

don't do it. I said, if you looking at me and thinking, yo, if, if, if he could do it,

I can do it, don't do it. Because I made a job look good, but that shit was fucking with my piece, bro. I'm getting stuck every day.

It was one time I stayed on post for 22 hours, bro. Have you ever sit in the same spot for 22 hours? I mean, I've sat in a cell for 24 hours for months, you know? Right, right, right, right. You're asking the wrong person. Yeah, but you know what I mean?

Like, I'm sitting at work for 22 hours, bro. Well, I feel for you better than anyone because I remember sitting in solitary and, you know, the four Pete, the guy that worked, the 8 to 4, you know, he's getting ready for shift change. He's telling you during the day about his plans for the night, what he's got planned for dinner, everything, what he's going to go home. and do and then all of a sudden, you know, you see him do that 4 p.m. count when the change is supposed to happen, you're like, what happened? And he's like, I got mandated. And then the thing about being a CEO, bro, you can have a terrible day. Like, you know how any of a job, if you have a bad

day, you know, yo, at least at 3 o'clock, I know I'm going home. As a CEO, you can get shit thrown on you, slapped, whatever you want. You're like, how? All right, at least I'm going home. You start to walk to that front gate to walk out the building. Your captain is right there like, hey, Ian, I know you had a bad day. I'm so sorry, these fucking guys. But I need you to go back to two upper and hold the floor down. All right?

You know what I mean? And it get like that, bro. And then that's if you're lucky to even get a relief to walk to the front gate. Because mad times, you're sitting there waiting for your partner to come and relieve you. So you're just sitting there looking at the door, looking at your watch. You're looking at the door, looking at your watch. Like, all right, they come in any minute now. Next thing you know, you hear that phone ring.

You're like, oh. Yeah, I can imagine it's even worse than the winner with callouts because, like, the prison doesn't close. Bonjour, compadre. It's the... Priceline Nickeligator. How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget. The Price Line app.

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People's calling out when it's hot. They're like, yo, I'm going to the beach. Fuck, fuck. Why would you go to jail when it's 100 degrees outside, 120 degrees inside? People, listen, I had a great time as a CEO until the pandemic hit. Once the pandemic hit, it got real in. I'm talking about nobody came to work.

And then it was at a time where if you had COVID, they allowed you to be off. So it was like people were saying, y'all, I got COVID. And they were paying them for it. Yeah. And you know with those jobs, we have,

you could be sick for fucking however long you need to be sick for. Which is good. It's a city job. Yeah, which is great if you're legit sick. But for those people that's abusing it, it's like you call out, you're leaving your partner

there to do 16 hours every day. Did they give you incentive to stay? They pay you overtime. That's it. No, during COVID. Did you get a bonus pay? No. And that's how fucked up shit is because everybody got hazard pay except for us.

I got it at Whole Foods. See what I'm saying? We got a hazard pay. Yo, do you see what I'm saying? We got $2 extra or $3 extra. That's insane, bro. And that overtime was double. Bro, that's insane.

Bro, we in here. risking our lives. Not only are we coming to work during COVID, but there's inmates in there that got COVID and we still have to be there. You know what I'm saying? Like, the one thing about

being a correction officer, bro, it's a very thankless job. You know, correctional officers are very forgot about. It's like, yeah, you keeping the street safe by keeping these guys, are locked up, but nobody really gives

a fuck about you. Like, everybody loves firefighters and cops. Nobody gives a fuck about You guys got a bad rap. Huh? You guys have a bad rep. Yeah, because the bad COs, they outshone the good COs. Like me, I like to look at myself as a good CO.

Like, these guys would come to me, we would talk. If these guys want to go to rec, we go to rec, yo, yo, F, you can make a phone call so I can go here. I got you. Yo, F, I didn't eat when the food came. You think you go and give me some. I got you.

Like, there's plenty of those type of people there, but those people don't get talked about. Well, see, now we have a platform that honors the good ones too. Right. I mean, everyone always honors the bad ones, but we have a mixture of both. We've had corrupt. We've had more good ones than bad ones.

Same with more good cops and bad cops on the show. Exactly. And that's why I was super hyped to come. I'm like, yo, this is a great platform. I love the kids. content, bro. You definitely doing your thing, bro. For real, for real. I just think it needs to be a fair side on all. Right. You know, everyone. And that's how you keep an engaged audience throughout, like,

I would never want to alienate cops or alienate correction officers just by only having the bad ones on. Exactly. And that's what I'm saying. I'm like, yo, every job, people are, like, people are allowed to have bad. people. You know what I'm trying to say? You go to any job in the world. There's going to be bad apples. It's just when it comes to cops and up COs, everybody have to be perfect, which is unfair, bro. What can they do to make the job of a correction officer better, specifically on Rikers? For starters, hiring enough staff that you're not doing overtime back to back to back. that's for starters

Secondly I may be sounding biased but pay these guys what they worth man You know I mean Pay them give them the bank Fuck it Give them the bank

And to hold Inmates accountable bro These guys They assault a CEO Don't nothing really take place after that Bro They just all right You go

do what you got to do and they come right back to the cell act like nothing happened bro you gotta get more staff so people are not doing so much overtime

hold inmates accountable and pay these guys the boat load bro I've witnessed what it's like being a CEO bro they deserve everything they get plus more pay these guys the boatload cops too

fuck it if you're protecting the city, bro. Give them what they deserve, bro. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Well, Isaiah, thanks so much for coming on the show today, man. Yo, Ian, it was a great time here, bro.

Thank you for getting me on the show, man. I'm a big, big fan of this shit, man. Yeah, I appreciate you. Send any other guys by way that you work with, you know? You already know when this go out, all my friends are going to be like, nah, I need to come and tell my story. I need to come and tell my story. I love it, man.

We want more of it. But, man, you know, keep them coming, you know. We appreciate it. All right, brother. And thanks for the gift, too. If I win big, I'm not sharing. So good, man. Okay, bro.

I'll cut you it out of it. Please, please do. All right, brother.