Locked In with Ian Bick - Inside the Assault That Sent Me to Prison Boot Camp & a 10-Year Addiction Battle | Phillip Schaap

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

Phillip Schaap details the assault that sent him to prison boot camp, his long battle with addiction, and the work he put in to recover. #BootCampPrison #AddictionStruggle #RecoveryJourney #TrueCrime #HardTime #SecondChances #Rehabilitation #overcomingaddiction Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://convictclothing.net/collections/convict-clothing-x-ian-bick Timestamps: 00:00:00 Driving Tales and Edibles Experience 00:05:45 High School Misadventures and a Fatal Mistake 00:12:03 The Shock of Arrest and Immediate Consequences 00:17:52 Entering Prison: A Realization of the Journey Ahead 00:23:58 Introduction to Boot Camp Experience 00:30:00 Life and Meals in Prison Boot Camp 00:36:02 Transition to Life After Probation 00:42:10 Transition from Medical Use to Addiction 00:48:42 A Miraculous Survival: Overcoming a Near-Death Experience 00:54:52 Overcoming Addiction and Recovery Struggles 01:01:05 Struggles and Redemption at Oxford House 01:07:16 Journey to Recovery: Embracing Ibogaine Therapy 01:13:22 Journey to Mexico for Ibogaine Treatment 01:19:45 Profound Experiences with IIG Therapy 01:26:00 Overcoming Addiction and Starting Anew in Recovery 01:32:06 Overcoming Challenges: A Red Bull Account Manager's Journey 01:38:47 Discussing Ibogaine and Offering Support Through Instagram Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Better digestion, less bloat, healthy immunity, improve sleep and clear skin. Take the Just Thrive probiotic challenge today. Visit justthrivehealth.com slash podcast. Take control today with Just Thrive. Phil, welcome to Lockton. You had a little bit of a drive to get here this morning. Yeah, from Delaware, yep. Awesome.

And, well, I appreciate you making the drive. shout out to your friend for making the drive with you too that's listening. Thanks, Drew. Yeah, and I hope you guys enjoy the Tyson edibles and joints we're sending you back with. Yeah, sounds great, man. Yeah, definitely let me know how you like them after.

I'll reach back out. That's fine. Yeah, I think I gave you Blackberry and watermelon. Okay. I did the watermelon the other night. Yeah. Me and my buddy, Mike, who you met earlier, we got so high last night. Stayed up a little too late after dinner.

Yeah. Because I were trying to get to bed like 9, 9.30. And we all went out to dinner. and didn't get to bed to like 1 o'clock, so I canceled training this morning and stuff and got a late start. So do you ever use cannabis for sleep? I just use it for sleep.

So my dad, he's a pharmacist, and he says that there have been some very bad studies that have come out about using cannabis directly for sleep. Really? Yeah. Why? What are the studies? I don't know.

It's just, he follows stuff like that, but I don't know. That's just what he said. Yeah, but then you can make the argument for melatonin. That's what I take every night, yeah. You take melatonin? A lot of it, yeah. immune to melatonin now.

Yeah. I took melatonin for the first time in prison. So we used to take wood. And when you got melatonin smuggled in, you'd take that. Or the biggest one in prison was the cheap knockoff allergy pills. Yeah. Those things will have you knocked out and drowsy. I think it's worse at alcohol, the federal prison allergy pills.

That's wild that people were smuggling in stuff like that. Oh, we'd get everything, protein powder. Yeah. Just anything that like, you know, teeth whitening strips. Yeah. Anything that helps, like the little things. Right. It's all about comfort. They don't want weapons or anything in the camps. They want, like, just comfort.

Where I was at, there was no, nothing like that. I mean, it was not possible to get something in the building I was at. Did you grow up in Delaware? Yeah, a small town called Greenwood, Delaware, maybe like 1,000 people. And then when I was in eighth grade, we moved over to a slightly bigger town called Milford. Oh, we have a Milford, Connecticut. I know. Oh, you did? Every time I Google, yeah, it always comes up.

And who did you grow up with? So I have an older brother and an older sister and my mom and dad. So it was just us five. And yeah, we were a good family, man. So not really any trauma in my life growing up. What did your parents do for work? My dad is a pharmacist. And my mom was able to, she would take odd jobs here and there when she could,

when she felt like she needed to. But she was just a stay-at-home mom for us. So you guys had some money, good financial situation? I mean, pharmacists, they did. do, they do it. He was able to provide for us. I mean, growing up, like, that man, he worked constantly. He was in that pharmacist 12 hours a day, pharmacy 12 hours a day, every day. You know what I mean? It was a small company. It was bought out by right aid, but yeah, I remember he was always working, but he always made time for us also to, like baseball games

and soccer or stuff like that. Did your dad teach you about drugs at a young age because he was a pharmacist? No. I mean, growing up, I didn't even really, know what he did, you know what I mean? Until I became a teenager. How would people describe you as a kid? A lot of energy, rambunctious. I wasn't like a troublemaker, but I was definitely mischievous as a kid.

You look like one of those. I know. And this is me and my best, man. Did you do public schooling for middle school and high school? Yeah, my whole life, I went to public school. So I went to Woodbridge School District until 8th grade and then went over to Milford. And Woodbridge is just a very small, I think it's the smallest school district in the state of Delaware. But adjusting from Woodbridge to Milford, a school of 200 to a school of 1,200, to a school of 1,200.

It was kind of, it was a little bit hard on me switching. What about career aspirations? What do you want to be when you grew up? When I was young. Yeah. I wanted to be a commercial crowber. A craver? A crabber.

A crabber. I see the lobster. Yeah. Yeah. It's a hard life, but my buddy used to take me all the time. And I just loved being on the water. I still love it to this day. So did you do that in high school at all? Were you a crabber?

We would do it recreationally. My buddy, he's a nursing instructor during the school year, but he is summers off. So he's actually a commercial crabber now. So I do help him from time to time when he needs it in the sun. Take me on a crabbing trip, man. Hey, you want to go? We'll absolutely take you. Do you guys eat it?

it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I love crab. Yeah, he'll, you know, sell what he has to and he'll usually slide me some when we go if I want some. Now, aren't there like, is it like lobsters where there's certain crabs that are tagged that you can't kill or take or no? So I'm not sure. I've never seen a blue crab that is tagged. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen it. I've been watching all those TikToks. I don't know why I came up on my 4U page, but just the lobsters in the ocean and all the eggs, they show like if it's a mom with, I guess they have like a thousand eggs on them or Millions. Millions.

They notch the tail to show that they're a breeder. Exactly. And they have to put it back in the water and everything like that. So that's what's been on my 4-E page for anyone that's wondering. It's wild what pops up on those things sometimes. Yeah, definitely. But yeah, commercial crabber. I never achieved that.

It's kind of a dying industry, but, you know, whatever. Did you get in any trouble in high school? Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I got, I mean, nothing major until my, junior year. I was kicked out my junior year for the assault that eventually landed me in prison. Right to walk us through that. Tell us what happened. Yeah, so junior year or high school, correct? I was in my junior year. Basically, we were just bad teenagers. And we were kind of selling weeds, selling whatever. And somebody robbed my friend.

And we were just trying to like, you know, get it back, like talk to the guys, work out. I solution. Obviously they weren't getting it back. We should have known. And we were, it was mischief night. We were about to go do some mischief. And we see these kids riding their bikes through towns who had just robbed my friend. And we stop them and we're like, hey, like, what the fuck guys? Like, come on. And one of those guys, he reaches in the car and smacks my friend in the face. And we're like, all right, like, time to do something here. So then they're like, if you guys, to fight us, just meet us back here. So we get out and for some reason I put a baseball bat down my pants, down my sweatpants. Don't know why. Just a dumb kid, huge mistake. And we're

following them for like a mile. There may be like 100 yards ahead of us. And we end up in this like section 8 apartment complex. And they like turned around like they wanted to like make friends and make things right. But they did like this weird sneak attack on us. And, um, So, like, my boy and the one kid start popping off, they start fighting. My boy has the kid on the ground. He's beating him up. One of their friends sees the writing on the wall. He just takes off run-in.

So there's now four of us and two of them. But the one that stayed, I could see him, like, trying to, like, angle around the fight to get in on it. And I pulled out the bad, dumbass. And I'm like, yo, stop. Like, let him fight. Let him take his beating or whatever. And he sprinted at me. I just all happened so quick and I hit him and it was one of those moments that just like you know you fucked up the second you did it and um and then after that we made a bunch of other mistakes like we hid the baseball bat another charge like so um what happened to him when you hit him oh it was a moment i'll never forget he just dropped and uh was rolling around on the ground he made this noise i i can still hear to this day like that i'll never forget

And I thought I killed him. Like I thought I messed up really bad. And yeah, so he, I guess he had a couple fractures in his skull. He ended up being fine, but still, you can't, you can't do that. You know what I mean? And so we run back to the cars. We hide the bat. I called a girl I was dating at the time.

And I'm like, hey, like, can I come see you at work? Or she's like, I'll come meet you in this park. line. I'm like, hey, like, I just, I messed up real bad tonight. And I just want to say bye and went home, told my parents. And well, they immediately get on the phone with the lawyer. And the lawyer's just like, don't say a fucking word. Call your friends. Don't tell them, don't say a word. Um, they said, they have to prove you did this. You know what I mean? And, um, so, and he's like, go to school. Don't run away. Just do everything normal. If they come and arrest, you call me. Like, so I go to school next morning. I'm in first period. Vice principal walks in. He says, Phil, come on, let's go.

And walk me down to the principal's office. And the second I walk in the door, these four cops just grabbed me up and pushed me against the wall. And I'm like, all right, well, I guess, you know, that's out of the way. So they did the same thing to each of us individually. They called us all down one by one. So we all go to the police station. And obviously, obviously, you know, Obviously, I didn't say anything. One of my other friends didn't say anything either. But eventually they talked two of my friends, and it's telling everything that happened.

So I'm just kind of cooked, like right from the beginning. So, yeah, I got assault with a deadly weapon, a couple counts of harassment, second-degree conspiracy. And I don't know if there was maybe a couple other light misdemeanors, something like that. And they, not only did they charge me, they charged all my friends with that too, who they didn't really have anything to. I mean, they were there, but they didn't really have anything to do with it. It's just more motivation for them to talk.

You know what I mean? And basically, we all have no contact orders. We're all still hanging out anyway. And, you know, a couple months down the road, one of them gets a plea bargain, you know, level one probation. That just means in Delaware don't get in trouble again. another one, level one, unsupervised, third one. And I was thinking like, man, what about me? Like, when am I going to find out my sentence?

And I was just sitting on my couch and my mom comes in with a letter from my lawyer. And it says it was forwarded, it was between my lawyer and the prosecutor, but he forwarded it to me also. And it said, you know, thank you for considering six months level five boot camp, level five correctional boot camp at Sussex Correctional Institute and so like we have a meeting with them and he's like look dude

you messed up here like you're going to get something he said this is the best I can do we can go to trial but like they the evidence against you is just so stacked that I would not recommend that I think that this plea bargain is I know you're young I think that this is the way to go

So they waited until my 18th birthday to sentence me. And then two weeks later, about two weeks later, they put me in prison. Would you have considered yourself a violent person at the time? No, not at all. I think I was just a dumb kid who didn't have any. I didn't consider any consequences when I was doing that. And maybe I just wanted to, like, be one of the guys, you know what I mean? Which I was in everything, but, you know, I don't really have a good reason as to why I did that, you know?

Why do you think you didn't stay and make sure he was okay, you know? Why did you choose to run away? It just all happened so fast. And, you know, his friend was there. And, like, I think his friend did end up, like, taking him away and they got a hold of an ambulance. but yeah like when something like that happens it's just everything's so quick you don't know what to do sometimes you know what I mean um so did it feel weird just going back to school like nothing happened I was devastated like I knew I mean I knew that they were going to come arrest me and I just walked

into first period put my head on the desk started sleeping and I'd slept until the principal got there So why even go that far? Why not just turn yourself in when, you know, you knew? Well, it had only happened the night before. And we weren't sure if they were even going to tell on me, if that makes sense. And that was what my lawyer also said to do. He just said, act like normal. You know what I mean?

And just he said, whatever you do, don't run. Just go to school. You know what I mean? How did your parents react to your arrest in the situation? Absolutely horrified. You know, that's, I. They did not have words for any of that. And they were taken by surprise.

They thought I was just like maybe like a troubled kid who would find his way eventually. And then all this happened. What did you end up getting sentenced to? So I was sentenced to four years in prison, suspended for six months. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30. The powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th.

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It's correctional boot camp. And what is correctional boot camp for people to know? So, all right, Delaware, a little mini-state, total inmate population of 5,000. So they said, you know, I would have assume they, okay, if we can make a boot camp, get some discipline in some of these offenders' lives that qualify, you know, and we can get, you know, 100 offenders a year not to go out and reoffend. That could make a big difference in this, in the crime, the whole crime, you know,

and all the crime in Delaware, essentially, you know what I mean? And had you heard anything about it before? Did you know anyone that was there? No. Had you watched any, like, prison shows or anything? I watched the one about Miami-Dade. There was a much. There's a boot camp in Miami Day jail or prison or something. And that was a vacation compared to what I went through with this fucking place. No, did they, when they sentenced you, did they haul you away right then and there or you had time to surrender? Yeah, so the day I was sentenced,

I was instantly on level three probation. I had to go to the, like in the basement of the courthouse and get my probation officer. So I think they gave me about two weeks. and my probation officer called me one morning and he said, hey, be outside your steps at 7 a.m. I'm going to pick you up. Oh, he picks you up?

My probation officer and took me to. It's kind of funny. So like I get in the car and he hands me a pair of handcuffs and he's like, hey, man, just put these on before we get to the jail. Well, I buckle the seatbelt, then put the handcuffs on. So when I go to get out, I can't because the seatbelt. And the guard is like, you know, why did you do that? like, and he's like, yeah, you're a fucking idiot.

Like, why did you, you know what I mean? Wow, that's funny he had you put the handcuffs out. Yeah, he just handed him to me and he said, here, man, just sometime between now when we get to the prison. What was he telling you in the car? I don't remember. I don't think we were even really talking. I think he might have been like something to the effect like,

hey, like when you get out, like, I'm going to be your PO and like this is what this is going to be like and here's what to expect. And, yeah, it was a lot worse than what he said it was going to be. How tough was that time period from when the day you got arrested until when you actually got sentenced? Because you got a kicked out of school. Yeah, they kicked me out of school for out of school conduct. So people are probably, you know, talking about you. Yeah.

Talk of the whole town. What were you doing? At this point, just that I don't give a shit mentality, you know what I mean? Like, just out doing bad stuff, drinking all the time. I wasn't in school. So, like, you know, I'm just hanging out with my friends. just got arrested with and we're just, I don't know, doing dumb, dumb teenager stuff, you know. Were your parents starting to get more strict on you? Were they keeping you under a tight leash?

So my parents lost control of me at a pretty young age. I don't want to say they gave up, but like they, I was just, they're such nice people. I was just able to outmaneuver them so easily. And anything they said, I always had an answer, I always had a plan, I always had it all figured out. You know what I mean? I think we've all been there before. I know you put your parents through it too, Ian. Yeah, yeah. And my, my, what started, my whole thing was Miss Shift Night too.

That was, really? That's what started at all. Yeah, we were just about to go like TP houses. It just, nothing crazy. Like, and that's, you know, that's when it all kicked off. So walk us through from the moment you got dropped off at the facility. Tell us what you're seeing, how you're feeling, what happened. So at this point, it hadn't really hit me, like just exactly what was going to

happen to me. And, you know, I'm in booking and receiving. And obviously all the inmates are in white jumpsuits. And they go, you know, they get, they get me change. They search me. They do all that. Well, they hand me these like green khaki pants with a green shirt and black boots. And he's like, yeah, these are what the people at boot camp wear. And I'm just like, okay, he's like, you know, go sit over there. They did the whole medical, the TV test, just the normal stuff that happens when you get when you go to jail or prison. And, you know, I'm there for a couple hours. And I see, obviously, you know what a guard looks like when you're in prison.

They have the, at least in Della, they have the blue shirts with the blue pants. Well, I see a guy walking up in all black with like a, I thought it was like a cowboy hat, but I guess it was like a drill instructor hat. And he walks up to me and he just starts screaming at me. You know, get up, get the fuck up. Let's go. We're going. And he takes me to medical.

and like at this point it became very real to me like about about what I was about to go through. You know what I mean? And so in this whole time in medical, he's like there were like a lot of female nurses and stuff down there. And I don't know if he was like trying to impress them. But he was just like up in my face pushing me just not not being a very nice guy. So we finished there at this point I'm just bawling my eyes out as we're walking from medical. to the building. And so we get to the building and, I mean, the guy could see that I'd been crying or whatever.

And he looks at me and he's like, hey, dude, I would do yourself a favor and get those fucking tears out of your eyes before they put you in this bay. And I'm like, okay, I'll do my best. And like I was, I looked so young. I looked like a 14-year-old and I walk in there and I could just see the faces of the guys on the pod and they're all just like. Like, who is this guy? This is very strange.

And, you know, immediately, like, it wasn't really racially segregated because we're all doing six months. We're all getting out on the same day. But, like, I just immediately went to, like, the white guys and was like, hey, like, what's up? And they're like, you know, we talked for a little bit. And then it just hit me more and more about just where I was at and just that I couldn't get out of there. and then I start crying again in the middle of the of the bay and one of the guys he's like hey man do yourself a favor tell them tell them you're going to go tell them you're going to kill yourself and you know what happens when you say that right and he's like they'll send you somewhere

better man they'll give you a TV and you'll be able to call home and so I go up to the guard and like hey man I'm going to kill myself he's like you sure you want to say that and I'm like yeah he's like all right let's go and um they take me down to medical again i was just there a couple hours before well in Delaware um when you say you're going to kill yourself or somebody else they put you in the padded room um a lot of prisons i've seen like they wear like the green smocks not the case in the turtle suit yeah well they give you a a paper smock which they were out of so i was in there ass naked. This is going in the Fourth of July weekend.

And in order to get out of there, you have to see a psychiatrist. Well, there's no doctors at that prison for like five days. So I'm stuck in this room for five days. It's freezing cold. People were like looking in like the in the glass at me. It was really bad. And that was when I realized that I needed to get back to boot camp and take my chances over there.

Um, so like, you, a couple days roll around, psych doctor. I'm like, I messed up. Dude, somebody just told me to say that. Like, and he's like, okay, like, I'm going to, we'll get you back into that boot camp. We'll give you another try. Um, and I, I go in there and like, um, so like at that boot camp, it's, it's, so it's based off the boot camp in Miami Dade. Um, all the drill instructors, they would send them down there for two weeks and they

would be trained by their drill instructors. on how to, you know, how to, how to be one essentially. And so, you know, your first two months there, they're just torturing you. No phone calls, no visits. You could write, that's it. And second two months, you could have visits through glass one weekend and phone calls the next. In your third two months, you could be on the phone after five and get a visit every weekend in person. but while I was there the so like there's kind of I noticed like three types of drill instructors in this facility like you have the good ones who want to help us and then the ones that just want to do their their eight and go home and then you have the psychopaths the ones that would like torture us and like do all kinds of crazy shit to us and you know just stuff stuff like that um So was everyone in the pod starting on day one, like for the boot camp? So you had said that everyone's there for the six months.

So is it like every time there's a new group of people, they start fresh? Yeah. So every two months, there's three pods in there. Every two months, one would graduate and they would repopulate that pod with people that had been. Like, let's say like you are in a Delaware prison on a gun charge and you have an ounce of cocaine, just giving an example. and you get nine years. So what you could do, if you're doing under 10 years, you could write your judge and say,

I want to get a modification instead of nine years. I want to do six months correctional boot camp. Wait, they'll trade nine years in prison for six months boot camp? Yeah. I mean, if you met the criteria, you couldn't be in there for a sex offense. You could be a sex offender, but you could not be in that,

in prison at that time for a sex offense. And it had to be nonviolent. So also, let me back up a little bit, my lawyer got all the non-violent stuff dropped. I mean, all the violent stuff dropped. So my only conviction was secondary conspiracy, which is like the lightest felony. So at that point,

why didn't they just give you probation then? If they're going to drop the assault. Somebody had to do some time for it, and I was the one. So. So when you get in there, everyone's on day one, though? They're all coming from different prisons.

So there might be like a seven-day window where they'll be bringing people in. But don't wait to start the actual boot camp until everyone's there. Yeah, and we're all getting out on the exact same day. So you're all in the same playing field. Like, no one knows what's about to happen. Yeah.

Okay. And, like, that eliminated, like, all the violence and stuff. You know what I mean? Just because everyone, like, there's a light at the end of the tunnel at that point, you know. Now, is this pod where you're staying the whole boot camp or is that just a holding spot till you start? No, that was at the boot camp. Okay. So you're in this unit or whatever.

Yeah. And what is it just like a tier or pod? It's like, it's a pod, but there was three of them in the building. and then like the the place where like the guards were had like the two-way mirrors and it could see into all three pods. You know what I mean?

And you're on bunk beds, cells? Is it like a barracks? No, I would imagine it being something similar to a regular pod. So actual cells? No, it was an open door. Open door. Yeah, open door. Now are there guards or are they just the drill instructors?

So they were guards that had done this training program in Miami-Dade and were now drill instructors. And I think it was like a pay raise for them if they went from CO to drill instructor. And also like instead of being a C, it's an automatic promotion too. Yeah, once you complete that training in Miami. So how long were you in limbo and before the program actually started? I was the last one there. Everybody was there already. They were all waiting for me.

So the next day was when it started. Yes. After you got over the suicide watch situation? They kind of let me slide on that. Like all their time had already started. And I was in that cell for five days. And they brought me back. And they just let me slide on the five days.

You know what I mean? Okay. So tell us, you know, day one of boot camp. What's that like? Walk us through the whole day. A lot of trail instructors up in your face yelling at you, making you do push-ups. Just messing with you, trying to get in your head.

like the motto behind like any boot camp, whether it's military, correctional, anything is they want to break you down, build you back up with some confidence. Well, all these people did was break us down. Like they never like rebuilt us,

if that makes sense. And they were just, just bests with us. And obviously they had rules to follow. You know, we'd count at certain times, you know, stuff like that.

But it was just, they were just torturing us pretty much. What times wake up? 5 a.m. Yeah. And do you go to breakfast first or are you doing some type of activity? So, like, the way a normal day would start, once you're there for a little while, you know, like, your body wakes itself up because they pop the doors and they all just come in screaming, blowing whistles. So, like, your body kind of builds this alarm clock to wake up like five minutes before they come in.

So you're already awake. But like a normal day at that boot camp, you know, wake up at five. we would be counted just like a normal prison and then we'd fall out we could brush our teeth you know do whatever hygiene stuff I think for like 15 minutes and then

we would go outside we'd do PT which is just running push-ups you know stuff like that come back in go to breakfast and like after breakfast there was a little bit of downtime so that's when the guards

were coming in messing with us and something something else they did that was pretty messed up was they would just never let us fall out. They would keep us on this line after breakfast till lunch, back on the line after lunch, till dinner. So I don't know if you ever stood in one spot

for more than a few hours, but it becomes painful and people were like pissing themselves and like something they definitely should not have been doing How could you get disqualified from the program, like kicked out? Were people getting kicked out? I didn't see anyone get kicked out. If you like, say, let's just say you get in a fight and get called.

People would fight, but it would be in the bathrooms where they couldn't see them. If you get in a fight, it's out in the open, you get called. They would just back you up two months. So instead of doing six months boot camp, you would do eight months boot camp. And, yeah, I think everybody that I was with stayed, and we all got out on the same day. Was it just PT every day or was there like fun activities or maybe like exercises or going through tires, climbing over walls, anything like that when you hear the work boot camp?

I mean, a lot of like push-ups, a lot of sit-ups. They did have a sandpit, which you don't want to be in a sand pit in July. It's hot and it sucks and you just feel disgusting. And they would do like other military stuff. a lot of it was just you had to be like military bearing all day you walked in lines

you we would do a lot of marching like around the prison just yeah stuff like that it was pretty unorganized there at that point I think it had it had gone off the rails

a little bit how was the food there horrible they starved us so they um they said that since we were like um more physically active than a normal inmate

because we're running into a push-ups and stuff that they fed us extra. But I think they might have fed us less, to be honest. And like I remember we couldn't have any food there on commissary. So you could get 10 packs of halls every week in tons. Calls, cough drops, and tons. And people, I mean, I would eat halls constantly just because I was so hungry.

And the portions were so low. little. And there was one time, did you ever have like, I think it's like sweet potato casserole when you were in? I don't think we had sweet potato. I don't think we had any type of casserole. It was, I guess that was the idea behind it, but it was just, and it's dinner, we're all starving. It was just like this orange liquid that they like dumped on my plate. And I'm like, it, by, I might as well have had nothing. You know what I mean? And it was weird. Like, even though we were all physically active, Like we all got these like real big stomachs, if that makes sense. I don't know.

It was really weird. Probably from the sodium. I have no idea what that was about. And it fell off once I left. So was it just the same meals all the time? It was like whatever the rest of the prison was eating that we would eat. So you had a normal prison food. Yeah.

Just minus commissary. Yeah. And a lot of it was unedible. And I mean, if you're going to eat that or nothing, you're going to eat it. At first, I didn't think it was. real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV. Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows and they were all free. The truth is ours. It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2,

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So if you are, if you're 18 and you're physically able to do this boot camp, then, you know, they would let you in. If you qualified with your charges. Did you see older guys there? There were a couple older guys. I'd say no one older than 50, though. But yeah, there were a couple old heads in there. Are you allowed visits? Not the first two months.

Second two months, we could, every other weekend. We could have a visit through glass. What about phone calls? Every other weekend. And then the third two months, we could use the phones after five and visits every weekend. Now, on the weekends, what are you doing? They're just torturing us. I mean, it's just seven days a week.

Yeah. And like, I remember, like, they would, like, have us outside doing push-ups in, like, July, August. And, like, I have blisters all over my hands. And, like, every day, like, I had blisters on blisters on blisters. Like, I mean, sit-ups, just a lot of, like, stuff that, you know, that, you know, not to do something like that to somebody you know what i mean what time are you done for the day um i say things kind of settled down about five five 30 but like they would still come on there and like

there were there were days where they would just make us stand online i mean probably 12 hours a day you can't move just hands hands down to your side feet at a 45 degree angle all day um and it was it was not what they intended it to be like i'll say that much wow yeah yeah And then do you get TV time at night? No, no, no, no TV. So there was no TV at all of the six months? So what did, I guess everyone's just so exhausted, they're falling asleep? Yeah, I mean, nighttime, like we found stuff to do.

Like, you could write letters, you could do schoolwork. Any cards? No, no recreational activities in there. You had to have like a set of like clothes of like green khakis that you wore daily. And then you had to have like a white pair that you wore to like, the classes. Does that make sense? So we would iron our clothes and make them look all pretty.

And if your clothes weren't ironed right, they would kind of mess with you more. And yeah, it was, I don't know, not a very good time. Don't recommend it. What about your GED? Did they make you get that? Yeah, so about the GED. So the day I get back from medical,

they gave me like a test. and I was just like so distraught from being there that like I failed this test so bad. I'm just doing like C, C, C, C, like on the on the bubbles. And they, she's like, you know, you have like, you're at about a second grade level, the teacher. And I'm just like, okay. And so I'm doing like, everyone else is doing like algebra and stuff.

I'm doing like plus, you know, addition and subtraction. And like, and then I realize like, okay. okay, that's not so bad. Let me just focus, not worry about school. I could just do this bullshit, schoolwork that a second grader does, until I get out of here and then I'll worry about my GED.

And yeah, that was pretty much the schooling for me. When your family was allowed to come visit you, did they? Like, were they supportive? Yeah, every chance they could. But it was very uncomfortable having my family come there because, so all of the visits in the prison outside of this building

were in one room right in the, the front of the jail. Well, they didn't want to let us have visits in there. So they would have to take your family, walk them through the compound with one guard past all the convicts. And they're all lined up at the fence, whistle in, you know, stuff like that. And like, it was very uncomfortable watching them because I could see them through the windows when they would come, like, down for the visits. And yeah, it was, and they came every chance they could. So. When you were in there, were you thinking about how your life would be after you got out? No, I was, what you were going to do. how you were going to live with a felony on your record?

No, I was just trying to survive at that point. So when you're preparing to leave the boot camp, are they preparing you for anything? Are they helping you with a job? No, no. Just they release you onto level, well, we were all sentenced differently. Some of them got home confinement. I was sentenced to a year level three probation,

which I don't know how you guys do it here, but like basically that's, you know, you got to go to your probation officer every week. Like I think a 10 o'clock curfew, drug tested every week. And he would come see me like maybe like once every two weeks. And he always had like a state cop, Delaware state cop with him when he would pop in on me. He would have a cop with him? Yeah. Is that normal?

It's called Operation Safe Streets. And yeah, it was normal. If you're on level three probation, I don't think they wanted to just send probation officers out by them. themselves without a cop because it's, you know, kind of a volatile environment at some of these people's houses. What was your plan to go to college or did you want to? I didn't, I didn't really have a plan after that. Did you get a job?

Did you find work? Yeah, so I got out and like I got a job. And it was at a candy shop in Rojovith. And yeah, I know it's funny. And, you know, I did that for a while. After that, like I got into the whole restaurant, bartending servant thing for, for, for, a long time. Was it hard to find work with the charges?

No. I guess technically you didn't have a violent charge when they dropped it, right? It was still a felony, but it's not considered violent. So, like, in the particular area I live in, it's a very, like, touristy area, especially in the summer. So you can go down there same day, get a job. You can pretty much have your pick of jobs. Was your incident publicized in the newspaper?

Did people know who you were? Yeah, they didn't post any names, though, because we were minors. Yeah. I guess that's a one positive, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. But everyone knew who it was. When you got out, were you experimenting with any drugs or alcohol at all? No, like, I ran my probation the right way.

I was in my house every night. I had a job. I did exactly what my PO said to do. And I was not doing anything when I got it. out. I was so scared and traumatized. Yeah, from that. Did that change after you get off probation? Yeah, like, you know, that might have straightened me up for a little bit.

But, like, the way, he was a very tough probation officer. He always bragged that he had the highest recidivism of any probation officer. And I'm just like, yeah, whatever. So that's not good, then. Horrible. Probably the worst probation officer I could have had. But, you know, he kept me straight. You know what I mean?

God, there was one time my brother was home. He's in the military. And I'm at work and he was just stopping by. And he said something to my mom. He's like, Ms. Scapp, like, I think your son, I think he's going to end up back in jail. Well, she loses her shit.

She's screaming out and, like, get the fuck out of her house and don't talk about her son like that. Like, my brother's there. He's a career Marine. He don't know what to do. He doesn't want to get in between it. And after that, he really, like, he chilled out. You know what I mean?

He was still a jerk, but he... You're lucky to violate you for that. I mean, something my mom did. I don't know. You could have just had a vendetta or anything? Yeah, I mean, I don't think he would have taken it that far, but it's hard to say. He eventually, I mean, I'm talking to, like, my friends at this,

at the other probation office in a different county, and they're like, yeah, I haven't even been drug tested yet. This guy's drug testing me every week at my house, you know, all the time. and so like he event he he he's in the he's in the reserves well he gets called up um so i go on one day and um instead of going to his office they send me to a different office well it's his supervisor and he just like mr scap uh you have had 29 clean drug tests you have zero curfew violations you don't know any fines like why are you still in probation and i'm like i don't know man ask him i don't know he's like okay i'm going to release you today so you're free to go you don't have to

come back here ever again. So I was I was off probation after that. And it was a good feeling once you get off probation. Was it hard going from so much structure like those last, you know, months and years of your teenage years being under probation in the boot camp to then kind of being free? Yeah, I think I had some pretty bad PTSD from the jail. It's weird. Like when you're in, when you're in prison, I guess. When you're asleep, you dream that you're outside the prison. you wake up and you're there. And then when you're out of jail, you have dreams that you're back in prison. And, like, I would have real bad night terrors and, like, panic attacks.

And it was just, yeah, I was having some, like, mental health issues after that. What were you doing to cope with that? How did you find help? I mean, I was just kind of dealing with it until those opioids got in my system. You know what I mean? And that's just how I'd essentially dealt with it for the next 10 years. How did you discover opioids? So, like, you know, in high school, I, you know, eating a Vicodin here or there, whatever, nothing crazy.

I think most teens might do something like that. But I was 19 years old, fresh off probation. My buddy was having a party. And there was a kid there acting up and we threw him out. We're like, go to your car, just leave me. And we walk him out to his car. And I'm walking back. I'm at the back of the pack.

Well, he comes up behind me and sucker punch is being shatters my jaw. And it's right in the middle of the opioid heyday when they're just writing them like skittles essentially. And I remember like waking up on the ground, like telling my friends, like, you know, something's wrong in my jaw. Like it doesn't line up. My teeth don't line up. And they're like, ah, dude, you'll be fine. Like just, and I'm like, well, if this isn't better by tomorrow, I'm going to the hospital. So I go to the hospital and they like test me for a concussion.

And I'm doing an x-ray on my jaw and the doctor company's like, good news and bad news. Good news, you don't have a concussion. Bad news, your jaw shattered. And you now have to have your jaw wired shut for six weeks. And that's actually a very intense, invasive surgery. So they drill through your gums like six times on the top, six times on the bottom, and cinch your jaw shut. And that requires some pain medicine. And that was like my first real experience with it when I'm like, oh, this shit, like it makes me feel better.

Like, I want this every day. You know what I mean? When you got hit where you like, oh, my God, here we go again. Like this is another fight. I'm going back to prison. No, he knocked me out. I was asleep in the snow. And I mean, I bounced back up pretty quick.

But yeah, they just got him in his car and he left essentially. And you weren't looking to get any retaliation or anything. I saw him years later. We talked. He's like, hey, man, I'm sorry. I said, yeah, we were kids, dude. Like, it's cool. So where does it start to shift from using the medicine just to help you because of your surgery to now, you know, you're using it, you know.

So I will say that when my dad being a pharmacist, you know, he walks in the room and he sees how much pain medicine I'm on. And he's like, Phil, like, this is a lot of pain medicine. He said, I have people coming in with cancer that aren't on this much. And I'm like, I know, but it's from the doctor. I'm good. Yeah. So I would say, well, and I had like, I'd go back to this doctor. Like, oh, man, one more thing.

So when you're, when you're jaw wired show, you can't open your mouth. I'd have liquid pain medicine. So liquid rocks is set, liquid morphine. And I like went to the doctor and like, yeah, man, I knocked the bottle into the sink. When it was unscrewed, like, can I have another one? He's like, yeah. And I think I ended up getting maybe like three of these like one liter body. bottles of liquid rock.

It finally is like, look, dude, this is your last one. Like, you're fine after this. And I would say by the time I was done that prescription, I was almost a full-blown addict. Wow. Wait, so when you had your draw, Wired Chuck, could you eat regular food? No, you can't eat. So what do you do? And sure.

Mashed potatoes throws roll. Yeah. And I was looking bad, man. You're probably skinny as a toilet. I was looking like a Holocaust victim. Yeah, wow. Yeah, yeah. I mean, same height, but maybe 120 pounds.

And are you working at this time? I don't think I had a job at that point now. So how would you start getting money for pills and everything like that? Did insurance cover that when you kept using your prescription? I mean, yeah, the insurance cover the whole thing. I think I was under my dad's insurance back then, but they paid for all that. But, you know, once you get off and you're an addict. you got to, you're on your own, you got to figure it out.

And I had a lot of friends that were using. We would, I don't, this, nothing too crazy, but like, you know, steal stuff. I had, I, I was usually able to hold down a job during my addiction. But basically, you know, if I'm serving tables somewhere and I get 100 bucks, well, I'm calling the guy to come, come to the restaurant and 90 of it's going for, for pills, you know what I mean? Did your parents try to intervene at all? I mean, your dad saw that you. you had an excessive amount of drugs.

Yeah, they did what they could. They really, really tried. I mean, at this point, I'd been to detox rehab, all the traditional stuff, and it just wasn't quite working on me, but they tried everything within their power to keep me off of drugs. So what happens next as your addiction continues?

Yeah, so as my addiction continues, I'm basically just, you know, just trying to make it. I'm in and out of Oxford houses. I do a stay in rehab. Actually, let me back up. And my parents found like thousands and thousands of empty heroin baggies under my bed. And I call them and they're like, Phil, you can't come home in. Like, this is too much. And so my mom gets on the phone with my counselor and he's like, have you ever heard of Oxford House? And she's like, no, he's like, I'm going to talk to Phil about going there. So those are good places, but I just wasn't quite ready.

So I just, you know, I was just living in Newark, just, you know, bouncing around jobs and stuff like that. I met a girl. And she was, she was fine. She was a nice girl. She wasn't an addict or anything. She was a bartender. And I'm just, at this point, I'm, I'm, I'm, kicked out of all the Oxford houses. I'm living in a hotel. And I'm taking her car up to Kensington

every night. I don't know if you know anything about Kensington, Philadelphia. You know, getting, I don't know what it was, supposedly heroin. It didn't feel like heroin to me. And, you know, coming back. And I remember her, like calling me. She's like, feel like it's 2 o'clock in the morning. I'm walking home from work. Where's my car? I got, it's a two mile walk. And I'm like, oh, like, I'll just be home, whatever. So, like, obviously she wasn't going to, put up with that for very long. And I thought I had it all figured out. And so basically we were fighting.

And I'm like, just take me back to my parents. And she said, okay, that's fine. She took me back to my parents that night. And she said that I'd FaceTime there about like midnight. But, you know, I realized, like, I don't have any money. I don't have a car. I had a cell phone, but that was it. And I'm like, what am I going to like do to not get sick?

And I knew that like my mom had some pain medicine somewhere in the house. They were camping in Ocean City, Maryland at the time. And so I have the house, free reign in the house. So I'm digging through all the drawers. I'm digging through the dressers. And I find this bottle of stuff and it's called morphine, sulfate, extended release. And I found it before and taken them when I eat them. it's probably like the most pointless pain medicine that ever existed. It just doesn't really do anything.

But I had found out that if you take like, you know, 10, 15, you will, I wouldn't get sick. You know what I mean? So like I take a bunch of them. And this time I found some gabapentin too. So I take the gabapentin. And that's when I had my. bad overdose. And the only time I've ever overdosed, just one time. And I was essentially dead. Do you remember what happened when you woke up? Like, do you recall anything from those moments?

So, no, I don't have any recollection. Like, essentially, I'd ask my sister the night before, I said, you know, can you run me to the pharmacy? I have some medicine. to get. I don't know what kind of medicine it was. And she said, yeah, like, I'll do that. I'll come get you when I get off at work. Well, like, you know, normally I would have texted her by then. So like 11 o'clock rolls around. I haven't text. 12, still nothing. One, well, she's working out of high school at the time. And she'd like, tell us somebody, she's like, I got to go check on my brother. They knew I wasn't doing very well. She said, I just got a bad feeling. Well, she comes to the house

and finds me. And if it's okay, I'm just going to read a text from the paramedic that found me. He was just an acquaintance at the time, but he has actually become a very good friend in my life. And I just texted him and I asked him. I said, you know, would a normal person have survived? Something like that. And he said, in the condition you were in, no, to be honest. If it would have happened and somebody was right there, yes, but when your sister found you, you had unknown downtime. You were already ashen. Your lips were blue. Your nail beds were blue, your limbs were already cold. You had zero breathing. We started CPR on you and I checked, I checked your chest. They were still a little warm. We shot Narcan into your nose and made you

breathe it in using a bag valve mask and zero respiratory drive. I was essentially dead. And they didn't even know how long I was like that. So they shipped me off to the hospital. And At this point, like, there's, they pretty much, you know, said that I was dead. Does an incident like that change your relationship with your sister when, you know, her seeing you like that being the one to report it and everything, does that change the dynamic? So she, she had a hard time seeing me like that. And obviously, like, I love my sister to death now. But she, I mean, she was like doing therapy and stuff.

And it was just, it was a nightmare. for her. I mean, she doesn't want nothing. She's trying to raise kids and a family and has a great husband. There aren't many guarantees in life. Your energy won't always show up. Your genes won't always fit. But I promise you this. If Just Thrive probiotic doesn't work for you, I'll refund every penny. Hi, I'm Tina. Just Thrive co-founder. And while most probiotics die in your stomach acid, Just Thrive is clinically proven to arrive 100% alive for gut health results you could feel. better digestion, less bloat, healthy immunity, improve sleep and clear skin. Take the Just Thrive Probiotic Challenge today. Visit justthrivehealth.com slash podcast. Take control today with Just Thrive.

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I wake up the first time, okay? And like, they had given me less than a 5% chance to live. I had an anoxic brain injury. So, like, a traumatic brain injury would be, like, where you hit your head. And an anoxic brain injury is from a lack of oxygen. I had two strokes, no organ function whatsoever. And I had aspirated so much fluid. it into my lungs that they didn't even show up on the x-ray. So they're just like pretty much

preparing my parents that like your son's probably going to die. My brother, he's in the military. They flew him home. He might have been in Iraq or Afghanistan. And they flew him back to Delaware from a war zone just to be by my side because I was essentially going to die. But the first time I woke up. It had to be in the middle of the night. Like anyone who ever doses, you can overdose for 30 seconds. And you wake up, you don't know where you're at. You don't know what's going on. What happened to you? Well, I was in a coma for two weeks. And I mean, I had flatlined, I don't know, four or five times. And there was one time that was real bad. Basically, my mom sitting there with my cousin holding my hand and she said, all the machines started acting

real weird. And she's like, I'm going to go out there and get somebody. I was in the ICU. And she said, as she's walking out, all the doctors and nurses just come running in. They're all gowned up, gloves. And she said they kind of shuffled her out. But as they were shuffling her out, she said she saw a nurse jump on top of me and mount me and was doing chest compressions on me. And they were, they were somehow able to bring me back every time. When you wake up from being in a coma like that, how do you feel? Like, do you like, did it? I was on a lot of narcotics. How was your brain, like your memory, everything?

So the first time I woke up, it's in the middle of the night. There's like a nurse just like on my computer, I would assume, or on a computer charting. And like, I'm just like, what happened? And I scare her. And she jumps back. And like, she's like, oh, shit, this guy's awake. And I'm just like, what happened?

You need to tell me what happened. Why am I here? And like, she, like, wouldn't tell me. And I think they probably do that for a reason. They don't want you to lose your mind or anything. And I'm just like, so. scared and like and I'm just like if somebody doesn't tell me what the fuck just happened I'm going to lose my shit and someone's going to get hurt well hospital staff turns out they don't like it when

you threaten them so they sedated me again and I went I woke up a couple days later and this time they did it like a lot slower and like they made sure my my family was there my brother was there my buddy David flown in from California my parents everybody's there and like I wake up again and they don't know what my brain's going to be like they had said like you know he could be a vegetable or he could be normal like probably something in between as far as he just i wasn't breathing for so long um and um and i wake up again and i'm like like what what happened somebody needs to tell me what's going on here because i don't know how i got here and um there was a real beautiful like uh middle eastern doctor standing in the back of the room and she's like philip like you're here because

you got pneumonia and i'm like pneumonia and like pneumonia Yeah, that shit didn't do that to me. I'm healthy. And then I see her and I see my brother. I'm like, yo, she's hot, dude. Let's see what she's doing after her. Maybe we can get her to the bars. And they all start crying losing their minds.

And that's when they realized that like I would have some assemblance of my old self, like that my brain was not just completely trash, which it was bad for a lot of years. But yeah, so that's what it's like waking up from an overdose. Did you have to relearn how to walk or anything? Yes. I was able to talk. I couldn't read.

I couldn't write. Couldn't read a clock. Yeah, I had to relearn everything. Essentially, yeah. So does this make you get sober? No. No. You go right back to using it.

So basically, man, I'm in that hospital. I was in a coma for two weeks. I was in the hospital, I think, 34 days total. something around there and they finally release me and I get home and I get back to myself and well it's permanently locked

the Delaware State Police wanted to know what the fuck happened they were trying to get into my phone and they completely disabled it so I I sum back then I don't know if you can still do it but you could plug it into a computer

and use iTunes to like restore it and I get it restored why if I only didn't have money for self-insert service. And I'd say two weeks after I got out of that hospital, I got a text and it was somebody I know and he just said got perks. And like kind of set me into a frenzy. And I knew where my parents kept a spare debit card and I knew their pin. And I go and I take it and like there's like a food line, a mile from my house. And like I may have ran a four minute mile to this food line.

I was running as fast as I can down these back roads. And, you know, I texted. I said before I left, yes, Senate, pick me up at Food Line. And so I get the money. He picks me up. I eat them. He takes me back to my house. Well, this is right when Banks had started doing text alerts for, like, debit ATM withdrawals

and stuff like that. So my dad gets a text that $60 had just been withdrawn. And he's waiting at the door for me. And, like, he was so mad. Like, he might have had an out-of-body experience. he was just so mad. And like he just grab it and he's like shaking me. He's like, what do I have to do to fix you?

Like we almost just lost you. Like what do you want me to do here, Phil? And I'm like, I don't know, dad. I don't have a good answer for you. And like I'd imagine that that was a really rough night for them because I just somehow survived, got out of the hospital, and now I'm back doing the same shit again. So like they're trying to find something to do with me

somewhere that can, you know, help save me. And I'd had a couple friends. One of them, he did very well at Teen Challenge. And he's still doing well to this day. And I had a friend that was also working there as an intern. And he's like, yeah, dude, why don't you come do a Teen Challenge? Like, I'll look out for you. I'll make sure you're taking care of.

And I'm like, no, I ain't going to that, man. That place is crazy. Like, I've heard stories. I heard it's a call. He's like, no, it's not a call. it's fine to just come here like you'll be all right. I go there. That dude didn't do a fucking thing for me.

Dude, I don't even think I saw him when I was there when I finally went there. And so like I go there and my brain is just so messed up from the overdose. Like I still can't read barely. I was in a very, very bad state. And like they should have, I'm not going to say anything bad about Teen Challenge because it does help people. but they should have 100% vetted me out of that program somehow because I did not belong there in that state. And so, like, I'm there for like six weeks

and I'm just miserable, not talking to nobody. I'm just minding my own business. And like, I wake up one morning and you have to read the Bible for a half hour when you wake up every morning. And I'm like, I'm talking to the guy, like the worker. And I'm like, yo, dude, I can't read this. Like the writing's too small.

The words are too big. And the whole time, instead of getting me therapy, they're just like, Jesus will heal you. Like, Jesus will take control and he's going to heal you and you're going to be okay. And I'm just like, whatever. And finally, like, this was the last draw when this guy, he's just like, go pray or pretend like you're reading. And I'm like, I'm escaping. I'm done here.

I'm going to leave here today. So, like, I go about the morning. I don't tell anybody. And I waited for, like, a good opportunity. Basically, we were like watching a Jesus movie or something and I get up. I see that and there's no staff around. I go to the door, exit, make a left, jump a fence, and then I'm free. I'm not a Teen Challenge anymore.

And yeah, that was a short stay. And after I leave, I'm like walking on the street. I'm like, like, what do I do now? Like, I don't know. I didn't really think about what I was going to do after I left. and I know that there's a hospital nearby. So let me just walk to the hospital. So like, you know, I walk to the ER and like I await my turn in line and I go up to the lady and I'm like, hey, you know, I don't really have a medical emergency.

But do you guys have like a social worker or somebody here that I can talk to that can like, you know, help me find a place to stay? And she's like, this is a hospital. Like, we don't, that's not what we do here. And she's like, but there is a homeless shelter that opens when it's under 4.4. degrees. It's called Code Purple. Why don't you go down there and that would at least be a bed for you for the night and I'm like, okay, that's fine. So like it was, you told me where it was at and it was maybe like a quarter mile away and like my brain was just so ravage. It took me like four hours to find it. And I finally find it. And I'm, I walk in there. I'm wearing like khakis, jelled hair,

buttoned down shirt with a nice jacket. And I go up to the lady and she's like, hi, like, who are you? And I'm like, I'm here to stay. And she's looking at me. She's like, you aren't normally like the type of person we see here. And I'm like, I know, I know. Like I just ran away from Teen Challenge. I just need somewhere to stay for the night. And that lady, her name's Nikki, she actually really helped me and went above and beyond for me that night. And I think she knew that I didn't really fit that demographic very well. And she's like, okay, like, I'm going to talk to you in a little bit. And I said, okay.

And I said, if anyone from Teen Challenge comes here, tell them I'm not here. I'm like, I'm hiding out from what I don't want to deal with them people anymore. Well, a couple hours later, they showed up. It was two of them. It was my boy and another guy who was actually paid. And I think my boy had gotten it that like I shouldn't be there. And they're like trying to like get me to go back. And so the guy's like coming up and he's talking to me and he's holding me and he's like trying to like pray for me.

And my boy's behind him. He's going, don't go back. Don't go back. Don't, and I'm like, okay, like, and then he had to pretend to try and get me to go back. And the guy would walk away as like, you know, Phil, like, you need more than this right now. Like, don't go back. Just go figure something else out. But he's working there.

So he had to, like, play their game or whatever. And so Nikki was able to get me into an Oxford house in Sussex County. So my first Oxford houses were in Newcastle. But the ones in Sussex County, they're a lot bad. and they're very well ran. So like I go there and, you know, the outreach worker came and picked me up and I think I had to come up with like $275 entry fee, which they don't do that anymore. You can come in the houses with no money, but it was different back then.

He comes and gets me, takes me to the house. We have an interview. They accept me. And like I'd say at that point, I strung together about a year of, clean time. I got a job at a chicken processing plant and my job was to hang chickens, 22 birds a minute, eight to 12 hours a night. And it was actually good therapy for me because no one's bothered me. I'm just hanging chickens. I can focus on one thing. And like I stuck that out for probably about six months. And then I, I fucked up and when I got another bartending serving job

down at the beach and, you know, the amount of money that you're making down there, especially in the summer and just the temptation and stuff like that, I ended up relapsing and getting kicked out of there. What happens after that? So I, uh, like, I'm, these guys I'm living with, like, they know something's up. And like, I literally, I said, tonight, I'm going to call a house meeting and I'm going to tell them myself and tell them, you know, that I'm just going to go. And I'm leaving work.

I text everyone like, hey, is anyone home? Can we just have a little house meeting? I just want to talk to you all. I get back to the house and they're like, you know, Phil, like we already knew. Like, we were actually drug testing you tonight. So, and I'm like, yeah, guys, I'm sorry. Like, I fucked up.

But the good thing about Oxford houses, man, like, you can, just because you get kicked out, you're not banned from them. You can go to as many as you want. They will give you as many tries as it takes to make it in Oxford house. And I'll get into them a little more later. But so I pack all my shit and show up on my parents' door. step again and um my dad same drill so what's what's your master plan now phil and i'm just like well um

i'm i guess i'm gonna obviously live here but i'm just gonna go to the methadone clinic tomorrow and and and get on medication and he's just like don't do methadone he's like get on get on suboxin soboxin is a lot easier on your body and i had been down that suboxin methadone road before um and he's just like just do yourself a favor and get on get on suboxin um and i said can I went there. And so that was in at this clinic they gave you instead of suboxin, they gave you subutex. So the difference is suboxin is it will, if you do an opioid, it will block it. Subutex it doesn't. So they're just like pumping you full of like opioids essentially with no blocker. So you can still go out and get high if you wanted to. You know what I mean? So I'm kind of like

the next couple of years, I'm kind of just, um, you know, doing suboxone every morning or subduitex every morning. Getting, getting high whenever I can, whenever I have the money, just, you know, stuff like that. And I had met someone that I actually really genuinely liked. She had two kids. She ended up moving into my parents' basement with me. And obviously, I'm just a complete disaster at this point. I was able to hold down a job, but that was about it.

And, you know, at some point, she did what she cooked for me, but she's just like, this guy's a fucking loser. I got to go. and like you know at that point like something kind of clicked in me and like I'd got into this routine where like I would be up all night um be the first one in line at the clinic five in the morning go home go to bed and then get up for work around like um you know three or four or something like that and when you're an addict and when you're up all night like your mind kind of wanders and I'm just like doing like these stupid Google search is like how to get clean, how to be a better person, how to do this, how to do that.

And I come across this stuff called Ibogaine. And like this was probably 2019. And it was coming to light like just how amazing this medicine is. But I, you know, I'm doing research and I'm watching YouTube videos and I'm joining Facebook groups and Reddit threads. And like, I join a Facebook group. It's called Ibegain Universe, all caps. And, you know, I just make like a very generic post. Like, hey, like, I am interested in doing this medicine.

You know, and if anyone could give me some info on how to get it or what to do and stuff like that, that would be amazing. And like, people started messaging me. And that community was so receptive to me, even just being, being where I was at. They all started like telling me like the process of getting it and how it worked and what you can and can't do and stuff like that. You know, it's interesting that someone could want to be sober, so bad and get clean,

but yet is unable to physically bring themselves to do it. Like you're going through the steps of searching. Something clicked in me after Shannon left. Like something just clicked in me. And I was just like, like, is this really? really like this girl, like I loved her and I was very attached to her two kids. And like, and I'm just like, man, like, I got to figure, it's time to at least make one real good attempt to get to get myself together.

So do you start using this, Ibegin? I'll tell you how it works. So basically it's a process. So Ibegain is not legal in America. You have to go, you can do it in Canada, you can do it in Mexico, you can do it in the Bahamas. but it is a Schedule 1 narcotic in the United States, which means no potential medical benefit. It got like outlawed with the whole war on drugs.

They like killed all the psychedelic research and stuff like that. So, you know, I'm just, I'm asking questions that these two very nice girls, Molly and Kelly message me and I'm talking to them independently, and they're like, I tell them that like, look, I'm on subutex. Can I take this while I'm, can I do the I begin? again, while I'm on the subutex, and they're like, no, like, you, you can be on short acting opioids, but you cannot be on long acting opioids like that. It'll just block it out. It's worthless if you do it like that. So, like, I realize, like, the more research I do, like, this is something

I really want to do. And I think that this might give me a shy of getting clean. So, like, I start, like, telling my mom about it. And I'm like, mom, like, look, this is, you know, I'm showing her YouTube videos. I'm showing her news articles. I'm showing her like people before and after they do it, stuff like that. And, you know, she was intrigued and like she's showing her friends and they're all talking about it. And she's like, you know, if you want to, if this is something you want to do and you want

to go to Mexico and do this Ibogaine, you know, just come up with a game plan because I'm not the hard one. Like your dad's going to be the one that you got to convince because he's going to be the one paying for it. and so you know I'm kind of working on my dad telling him that like this is what I want to do and obviously as a pharmacist no like none how not not you're not doing some like weird plant medicine down in Mexico like are you crazy and like I'm just working on him for a couple months and like there was one day um well I'm just sitting around he's he's he's off and he's like

hey Phil come let's go somewhere and like all right where do you want to go is like let's take our the dog Sophia down to the beach and let's just go for a walk on the beach I want to talk to you and like my dad's a very smart man and like you like you can tell when he has to when he has something that he doesn't say much sometimes but when he has something to say like he means it um and um so we go for this walk on the beach and it was freezing cold and he's like so like what what is your game plan here man like what are you like you like you're bugging mom about this weird medicine and like you're bugging me and like can you just like like I just wanted to come talk to you man to man and like what are you trying to do here?

And I tell them pretty much what I told you that like it's very high success rate in addiction and mental health issues. And so he's like, you know, if this is something that you really want to do, that's fine. I'll pay for it. And I'm like, but there's a kicker.

I got to get off of the sub-Utex. And he's like, okay, like if that's what you want to do, you have to get off of it the right way. He's like, if you just stop showing up to that clinic, you're probably be in the hospital because you'll be so sick. And he's like, you need to tell the doctor

what you want to do, how you're going to do it, what your game plan is. And these doctors don't care. They just write suboxone and methanol all day and adjust medicines pretty much. And so, you know, I make an appointment. And like, I might as well been speaking French to this doctor because he just didn't care,

he didn't know, didn't want to know. And I'm like, you know, like, and I come up with, with a game plan outside of my dad. So like, um, um, I go to the doctor and I say like,

look, I'm telling him the whole spiel and I'm like, I want to go down two milligrams a day. I'm on 14 milligrams. I want to go down two milligrams a day for a week. And then I'll be done with it. He's like, I cannot ethically do that to you.

Like you will be very sick. Um, and I'm like, okay, well, you can either do it or I'm going to stop coming here. And he's like, okay,

whatever, whatever, I'll do it. So suboxin subutex, those type of medications, they take very, very, very long to get out of your system. So basically what I did was I got tapered off down to zero milligrams, and then I just started hitting the streets. And like this was back before the day of like pressed fentanyl.

So like I knew if I was buying a perk 30 on the streets, it was a perk 30. You know what I mean? Like I didn't have to worry about the fentanyl being added to the mix yet, at least in Delaware. and I'm contacting this clinic down in Mexico, the one Mali told me to go to. And, you know, they're like, what we want you to do is it's going to take 30 or 40 days to get out of your system. You know, day 30 off the subutex, we want you to go to Walmart by every drug test they have and drug test yourself every single day. And the second that subutex is out of your system, call us and then we'll arrange on how to get you down there. So I think it was day 42, something like that.

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When I finally piss clean. And then you end up going to Mexico? So, obviously, you know, I had to arrange transportation. I had to, at this point, I'm just so sick from all the drugs. And even though I'd switch back to perks and stuff, it was just so like, I was just, I could barely walk. One thing from when I'd got off the subutex, like, it's just a long withdrawal. I was hard on my body. And so, like, the way I ended up getting down to Mexico,

You know, we book a flight to San Diego and I'm so sick I can barely walk. And I call them like, hey, I'm leaving. They're like, okay, we'll have a driver there when you arrive. And my brother and my dad took me to the Philadelphia airport. And like we get there. My brother's just like, dad, I got this. I'm going to walk him in and talk to him on the way in. And so he's walking me in and he's just, you know, we're walking together.

And he's like, hey, man, like, I love you. And I know this is a Hail Mary, but like you got to make this work this time because dad just spent a lot of money on this stuff. And I said, I know. And I gave him a hug and he pushed me into TSA. And I landed in San Diego. They had a driver there who drove me to the, The clinic, it's called Experience Ibegin, so it's a really good clinic.

If anyone's interested in doing it, I recommend it. But they drove me through Tijuana to Rosarita, Mexico. And like, it was so different than what I was used to. Just like not, I mean, Mexico is obviously different, but like, when I get to this clinic, it's beautiful. It's just a very, I can see the Pacific Ocean. and like I go on the doors and there's a guy standing there older gentleman and he's like, hey, I'm so and so I'm going to be your Ibogaine doctor. And I'm like, oh, damn, in America, like you usually got to wait like three or four days to see a doctor and

you're right here already. And he's like, yeah, like, you know, we do it a little different in these I Begin clinics. He's like, are you sick? Are you withdrawing right now? And I said, yeah, I am withdrawing a little bit. He's like, how much were you using a day? And I lied. I'm like, I was doing 12 perk 30s a day.

That way he would give me a lot. And he hands me pain medication to keep me comfortable until I did the treatment. So at these clinics, like, they're very good about keeping you comfortable until you can, until you can get the treatment done. And he's like, you know, next step, like, I got to give you a drug test. We're going to do a liver panel. We're doing EKG. We're going to make sure that you are healthy enough to take this Ivagain.

and I said, okay, did all that stuff. Next day they're like, okay, like you're clear to do the Ibegain. So like that second day, I was just pretty much hanging out, you know, just getting used to my surroundings. And like the third day, they're like, okay, like today is going to be the day where you are going to do the Ibegain. and they kind of were talking to me about what to expect. And so they're like, you know, we're going to give you your last dose of morphine at 12. You can't eat after that.

All you can drink is Kool-Aid. And we're probably going to give you the flood dose around 9 p.m. at night. And so I'm just sitting around hanging out with the nurses. They were all very, very sweet and good people. And one of the nurses is like, hey, like, do you want to, like, turn on a movie or something? I'm like, yeah, that's fine. Well, it was all that, all the, all the, um, they had Netflix, but it was in Spanish. So like I couldn't read it.

So I'm just like looking for something. I recognize why I saw Scarface. Put on Scarface, probably one of the most violent movies ever made right before I'm about to do the strongest psychedelic on the planet. And, um, so, you know, movie finishes. And they're like, okay, like, you know, it's getting close to nine. Like, give me your cell phone. Go up to the bed. Make yourself comfortable.

And we'll give you further instructions. So like the way you administer ibegaine is you take a test dose and then a dose every a half hour for two hours, so four doses total. And so I get through all those and the nurse came up to me and he's like, hey, like are you tripping? And I'm like, no, not really now. I'm thinking like, I'm just too man for this. I've done too many drugs for this shit. Like this can't touch me. And so he's like, okay, I'm going to go get you a fifth one.

I'm going downstairs. I'll be right back. And he came down. When he came back up the stairs, he looked like a monster. Like you ever seen from Dustal Dome where they like transform? And like, yeah, he was like scary. And I'm like, I'm like scared of him and I'm scooting away and I can't really move. And he's like, hey, it's me, the nurse.

And I'm like, oh, oh. And he's like, here's your fifth dose. I'm like, I don't want it. I don't want it. He's like, no, you take it. Just take it. I said, okay. So when you're doing an Ibogaine trip, the very first thing you hear is a loud ringing in your ears.

It's like standard across the board. Everybody gets it almost like a million bees right in your ears, as loud as can be. And then that's, you know that like it's no turn. them back now essentially and they like have this witty music like this that where the medicine originated from in africa it's gabo and like the beaweedy tribe they're like pumping all this bed wheydews speaker loud as can be and um i'm like yo can you all like put on like some dave matthews band or something and they're like no like this is tribal music like this is going to help help your experience just trust me and they're like okay okay um and

So like basically I'm sitting there and you, the beginning of doing Ibegain is probably the most uncomfortable thing you're going to go through. Like your heart is bumping out of your chest. Like I just watched Scarface. So I think someone's like coming to kidnap me or something. And you're throwing up everywhere. And it's just really uncomfortable. So as you are like laying there longer and longer. longer. You just kind of accept that like you got to ride this out and you're not going anywhere.

So I'm laying there and like, so this is going to sound insane, but I'm going to say that my experience doing Ibegain is outrageous as all this is going to sound. It's not anything out of the ordinary. This is pretty standard for what happens to people when they do Ibegain. So like I open my eyes and it's just like the brightest blue hieroglyphs at the wall. all the way across the wall. And I wish I could have, like, taken a picture of them or some and had them deciphered, but it was, like, it was insane. So I'll close my eyes.

I'm like, well, I guess I'm keeping my eyes shut for the next 12 hours because that's weird. And so, like, I'm just, like, letting the experience happen. And a couple hours into it, once you start to calm down, I hear a voice. And it's, like, very distinct. and it's like, why are you here? And I, you know, I say back in my mind, like, I want to get better, almost like like a stern father or something. And it's like, why do you want to get better?

And I'm like, well, I want to do it for my family and I want to have a good life. And it's like, and it says, like, pick the three most traumatic experiences of your life and you'll get better. And so like the first one, you know, know, I'm thinking about it. And then bam, I'm like, it was my best friend in fourth grade that had died. And I have an asthma attack of all things. And I'm like, back at his funeral, I'm like floating above it. And I remember the weather and everybody crying and like, but like it was like peaceful. And like I like I, it kind of showed me that he was at peace and he was in a better place. His name was J.D. And it was a good, it was a good thing. At this point, the I began. It's, it's, it's, you're past all this scary stuff and you're just, you're just down for the ride.

And, um, so like the second one, I had a friend at high school once again, um, sledding accident. He had like a horrible, like, final destination style death where he was being pulled by a truck and he hit a tree stump. And it like essentially like severed his like lower organs and he, he was dead before they've gone to the hospital. And like, that was where my life really derailed because, um, I was, I was 16. I was fully able to process it. And I think about less than six months after he died, I was just so, we were also hurt by it. That's when I committed my felony assault. And, you know, and then next thing you know, I'm back at his funeral. And after that, like, next thing you know, like, we're in a room together. And he's like, Phil, like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I don't know, man. He's like, you're. You know, he's like, you know, know, you got to get better. Like, you got to, and I'm just like, I know, but I've just been such a piece of shit my whole life and all that. And he's like, do you want to see what your life would be like, what your family's life would be like without you? And it was just kind of like, like, it showed what

my life would have, my family's life would have been like if I would have died during that overdose. And it was not good. My mom's just a wreck. My dad and brother are alcoholics. And it, and it, like, it showed me that my family will cease to exist as much of a piece of shit as I've been my whole life without me like they need me to to survive essentially um and you know the third one was um my ex is stepdad we just kind of watched him like terminal cancer he just kind of rotted away like um and like a lot of times I would go over there and just like sit with him and just hang out and um we wouldn't even talk like I don't know what you're going to say to someone who's like dying of cancer, like, like, asking how the weather is or, like, if the giants are going to beat the

ravens, like, there's not really much to say. So we would just sit together and smoke and, and hang out. And, you know, that was just able to, like, help me release so much trauma. It just showed that, like, all my trauma was from death and, um, that, you know, it's okay. Like, that, that's not that bad. And it's just something new and like, like, like, chasing, like, I'm fine. like, you know, you can move on without me. You know what I mean? And I just said, okay. And they had told me, like, the second that you feel like you can get out of this bed.

When you see the sun coming up, you can. So, like, sun's coming up. I get out of bed. And, like, I'm looking at the Pacific Ocean. And, like, it was just such, like, an amazing experience. Like, and I later found out that, like, this medicine is one of the most neuro-referencing. is one of the most neuro-regenerative substances on the planet. So it repairs brain injury.

It can repair like brain injuries, people with like Parkinson's and MS. They're finding a lot of success with it. Like tier one operators, like Navy SEALs, Delta Force guys, they're setting them down to Mexico by the busload now to help them get this medicine. And they're coming back with like new leases on their lives, essentially. And it really, I just happen to walk into this. that. I didn't even know it was a thing. And like, I remember like being able to think and like my brain was just like thorough on all cylinders all this sudden. And like I'm calling my mom,

I'm calling my sister and I'm just like telling him how sorry I am. And, you know, I just knew. So another thing about this Ibogaine. So it is very strong anti-addictive properties. So after you take this stuff, you wake up. You have no withdrawal from the opioids. You have no cravings. And you're essentially just like, you know, free again from it. And you don't have to do other doses of that. Just one.

Just one and you're done. It's almost hard to believe, Ian, but like any, Google or YouTube will be your friend on this if you're interested in doing it. Like the, and I might not be explaining it the best, but like the information is about I Begin, it's very easy to find. Well, I guess here's a question then. Have you used drugs since doing that? No cravings. No. No.

So how long have you been clean for? Well over five years now. All because of that. All because of that one experience. And like mine wasn't anything out of the ordinary. Like there are a lot of people going down there and getting clean from this Ibigain. But do you think it's a mental thing? Because you were ready to change, right?

I always say that you have to want to do it. If somebody drags you down there and makes you do it, you're probably going to have a good chance of relax. But I would say you need to be ready. And you need to be ready to change your life after the Ibegain, which is what I did differently after that. But you're someone in recovery now that does use weed, right? Yeah, I. So it doesn't technically get rid of all of your drug cravings. So, like, I do have some pain issues from my overdose.

And I just, I might like smoke a little bit at night just to relax and calm down. And, but I'm not like a heavy user or anything, but I've never, I'll say I've never used a hard drug since that day. No, I'm not judging. I was just curious. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know there's a debate that where like, you know, if you're in clean and recovery, then you can't use any type of drug. But I'm kind of in the belief where like, okay, if you, you know, if your addiction was gambling for say, then, okay, then you can smoke weed or do something else, you know, and vice versa.

I would say that it probably is like the guideline. line, but everybody's different. Yeah. Like, I know that I'm never going to do a hard, unless I have a bone sticking out of my leg, like I'm never going to take another opioid again. And like the progression I've made in my life since doing that Ibegain, it's pretty astounding.

Yeah, what's your life like now? So basically, I leave out of that clinic. I go to my aftercare in Austin, Texas. And, you know, it was, they were good people there. they, it was, COVID wiped them out. So like they're not in business anymore. But it's owned by a psychotherapist. And like their main thing was, you know, you could not go back to that same mess you left or you're going to, you're going to relapse.

And I said, okay. And like at first I'm kind of in denial. I'm like, I can go back to my parents' basement. And they're like, no, Phil, like you can't do that. So eventually they work on me enough. And I'm like, okay. I'll go back into sober living out of an Oxford house. And I, the, so the outreach guy, he was, he was the state chair by the time I had done the Ibe

game, but we had a big falling out. His name's Tony. And I'm like, man, now I got to text Tony, even though, you know, he probably hates me. And like, I unlock him on Facebook. I write him a text. And he must have been looking at his phone because, like, he texts me back instantly. He's just like, hey, man, you know, I think about you. sometimes hope you're doing well.

And I'm like, yeah, like I'm doing well, but I need a house now. He's like, okay, like I'll get you into a house. Just don't worry about it. Like, what are you doing? Where are you at and when you leave? And I told him, like, I'm in Austin, Texas. I'll be here for, you know, this amount of days. And he said, okay, call me a week before.

We'll get you an interview set up. And you can come, we'll get you back into a house. So, you know, I do my time in Austin. And I go back. And this time, like, I really, focused on doing stuff, right? Like, instead of looking for the bad guys in the Oxford House, I was, like, looking for the good people,

the people that, like, wanted to change their lives, if that makes sense. And, yeah, so I get back and I show up, and I knock on the door. You know, I catch my flight, get my car coming down to the Oxford House. A guy that opens the door is outside of Drew, probably one of my best friends to this day.

First guy I meet there. And, you know, he's just like, hey, like, you know, I work third shift. Like, have you been in one of these houses? And I'm like, yeah, I'm a frequent flyer in these houses. Like, I'm good. And he's like, okay, like, I'm just going to go over it a little bit. And then I'm going to go to bed. I've been up all night.

So, and this is right when COVID is popping off. Right at the beginning of it in 2020, there's no jobs. Unemployment had not started giving out the money yet. They were just unprepared. So the house, like, you have. have to have a job in one of these houses or you got a volunteer but i wanted to get a job um so um i'm like i'm just going to do 10 indeed applications a day that's it and then i'm going to be free the rest of my day until i find a job and i was helping tony a little bit with like um opening other

houses and stuff like that moving furniture and stuff for him but um so 10 applications a day was doing him every day. I did that for about a week. And I was, I'll never forget, I was leaving a therapy appointment. And I get a call. And it's from a California number. And I'm like, I don't know. There's a lot of weird stuff going on with COVID. Let me just answer it just in case. And it's a guy on the other end. And he's like, hi, how would you like a job making for $50,000 to $70,000 a year? And I'm just like, what do I got to do for that? Like, is it legal? And he's like, yeah, man, it's red, distribution company in front of the energy drink, right? I'm like, yeah, yeah.

It's Red Bull. And I'm like, just like, okay, yeah, I want to do it. Sign me up. Like, let's get to the next step. And he's like, okay, like, what I'm going to do is send your application to a local district manager in your local building where you live. And his secretary will set you up for an interview. And I'm checking my phone, you know, every 10 minutes for like a couple of days.

I finally get an email from her. and she's like, you know, tell me a time when you can do an interview. I'm like, yeah, full availability. Just let's just get it done. And she's like, okay, it has to be on Zoom because of COVID. You can't come to the building right now. So I, we do the interview. The guy is a little Moldovian guy, like the hardest worker I've ever seen.

He's an old, old Soviet Russia guy. And he's like, hey, like, you know, I've had 60 applicants for this job. I just want to let you know that. And I'm so underqualified. I got four months clean. Like, I just moved into this house. And so, like, for some reason, somehow he picked me. I don't know.

Out of all these people, I said something to him that struck a cord, and I got the job. And I started that job. It was for 2020. I'll never forget the date. So I show up there. day one, COVID's got everything all fucked up. Like you can't, we can't ride in trucks together. I can't go into the building.

I can't do this. So the guy who's training me, I'm literally just following him around, following around his Red Bull truck all day, doing the stops with him, getting back in my car, going to the next one. Next, and it was just a horrible way to learn how to be an account manager at Red Bull.

And it wasn't anyone's fault. It was just the circumstances. And he, uh, I was bad at that job for a long time. It took me a long time to get my body back. These guys are pretty highly paid, but it's a growing 12-hour-a-day, 12-to-14-hour-a-day job,

managing all these accounts. And they needed a body so bad. So I followed that guy for two weeks, and they sent me out on the road. And I tell the district manager, like, I don't know what I'm doing, dude. And he's like, I know, it's fine, just do your best.

We need someone to go out there and sell Red Bull. So as soon as they got my driving privileges and stated, I was in that truck and I was driving around selling Red Bull. And they gave me 104 accounts to manage. Wow. And they're all different frequencies like Wawa's, you know, three times a week, Walmart's twice a week, you know, down to the ones that are once a month.

But, and like, I don't know. why I didn't quit or how I didn't quit, but like, I don't know, I wrote it out and like when I, I saw my first paycheck. So all of my back pay from unemployment came. And Red Bull was given hazard pay. Like, I think it was like 500 bucks a week or something. So like I wake up one morning and my bank accounts got like $10,000 in it. And I'm like, what the fuck is this? And I'm like, oh, this one is from unemployment and this is from Red Bull. And I'm like, okay, let's try this. And six months, I said, I'm going to get myself six months.

And there's six months go by, I'm still horrible at this job. Don't know what I'm doing. And like, I text the district manager. It was a Sunday night. I had to be there 5 a.m. on Monday. He's like, hey, I'm like, hey, I quit. I can't do this job anymore. I'm going to go back to the, to the donut shop.

And he just texts me back. Very simple text. You cannot quit. I will see you tomorrow at five. And I'm like, man, I can't even quit. Like, that's crazy. So, like, I go there. And he said, we'll talk tomorrow also.

So I go there and he's, um, he said like some stuff to me. I'll never forget. A lot of, like, the Red Bull staffed in, like this guy, I thought he was a very good boss, very fair. But, um, and he sits me down. And he's like, hey, man, like, I know this job sucks. I know this job is hard. I know you work 14 hours a day.

And he said, like, like this job will be the hardest thing you ever do. He said, if you can manage this job and at least do mediocre in managing these accounts, you will do well in everything else in your life. Your life will come together. And that kind of was when I'm like, okay, all right, I'm going to ride this out no matter how long it takes. And like, I ended up staying there for four and a half years. And I became like a pretty, I wasn't like the best account manager, but I became a pretty decent account manager, you know, in those four and a half years. And like my, My body from all the aerodose, it was just too broken to like keep lifting sodas and

and working those hours. And so I eventually did move on to something better from Red Bull. But Red Bull was very, very good to me. And they kind of saved my life in a way because I was at that turning point. You know what I mean? So. What do you think is still learning lesson? You want people to take away from your story today? Um, you know, just, just you, you can't give up. Like, no matter how, what you've been through, you know, if, if I can escape an overdose where I had less than a 5% chance to live, um, you just, you got to keep going and, um, you know, just don't give up on yourself. And as far as this Ibegain, um, I can't say enough good things about it. I would 100% credit, credit it for saving my life. And I mean, I have a little daughter now. And, and,

and a house and a car and like I own a business a thriving business actually um and like this like I think this medicine will probably end up being the future of of addiction I hope and there's a lot a lot of people in on this movement now um it it's gaining some steam and a lot more people are starting to find out about like when I did it you you had to have money to get that shit like let's face it. I think my dad paid $5,500 for the treatment and then he paid $12,500 for the aftercare. So $18,000. My dad shelt out to get me to do this stuff.

It's a good man right there. My dad's a real one, Ian. My dad's a real dude. But yeah, and just if anyone's interested in doing it, like, you just, you can't take no for an answer. You have to figure it out. this medicine is not going to come to you. If you have the PTSD addiction, mental health issues, like you have to make arrangements in your life to go find this medicine.

And there's people that practice it in America. Even though it's illegal, they kind of operate under like a religious gray area. But, you know, like it is available. And it can save lives. Bill, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. Yeah, man. It was a pleasure talking to you and hearing. about this and hopefully it inspires some others yeah i hope so man and if you know anyone ever has any

questions about ibegain like they can always reach out to me so yeah i'll have your instagram or whatever in the bio yeah that's fine and like i'm not an expert in the sub in the in the field but i can direct them so awesome thank you phil yeah man