Locked In with Ian Bick - Inside the Devastating Lifestyle of a Long-Term Dope Addict | Chris Tuder

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Christopher Tuder explains how his addiction took control of his life, the desperate choices he made, and the cost of his dependency. #DopeAddiction #SubstanceAbuse #TrueCrime #LifeStruggles #MentalHealthAwareness #AddictionRecovery #HardTruth #rehabjourney Thank you to DRAFT KINGS for sponsoring today’s episode: New players can get FIVE HUNDRED CASINO SPINS ON A FEATURED GAME! Just sign up with code IANBICK and wager a minimum of five dollars to receive FIVE HUNDRED CASINO SPINS ON A FEATURED GAME. Connect with Chris Tuder: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@chrisjo614?_t=ZT-8u6yT7hvIEw&_r=1 Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://convictclothing.net/collections/convict-clothing-x-ian-bick Timestamps: 00:00:00 Growing Up in a Chaotic Family Environment 00:08:00 Finding Connection Through Shared Experiences 00:16:17 Witnessing Violence at a Young Age 00:24:56 Surviving Juvenile Detention: Tips and Experiences 00:28:57 00:33:21 Staff Abuses in Juvenile Facilities 00:41:50 Joining the National Guard: An Escape Plan 00:50:25 The Influence of Party Culture and Substance Use 00:58:48 Kwame Kilpatrick and Detroit's Cannabis Boom 01:07:07 A Journey Through Addiction and Rehab 01:15:35 Cultural Experiences and Legal Encounters in New Zealand 01:25:00 Living and Working in Vietnam on a Budget 01:32:13 Navigating Visa Challenges in Australia 01:40:46 Struggle with Fentanyl Addiction 01:49:29 Struggling with Homelessness and Addiction 01:57:42 Overcoming Adversities with a 12-Step Program 02:05:52 Florida Work Release Program and Rehabilitation Efforts 02:13:48 Engaging with Negative Comments for More Views Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit mopar.com for complete details and a copy of the PowerDrain Limited Warrant. Comments is a registered trademark of Cummins Inc. Graham and Emmy are registered trademarks of FCAUS LLC. Chris, welcome to Lockton, man. Thank you, sir, yeah. Yeah, pleasure having you here. Thanks for watching the show, supporting it, and then asking to be a guest on, man.

It's great to have you. All right, thank you. Now, you came from New York City today. Yeah, New York City. Is that where you live now? I live in Central Florida. Oh, okay. Yeah, so we flew up, and me and my partner,

she has friends here. She's from Jersey originally near Trenton. Yeah. And we're making it like a mini-trip slash CNNBIC type thing. She didn't want to come and watch? No, she's like doing stuff with my kids. You're doing kids. Oh, your kids came too?

Yeah, yeah, for the whole family. Ah, how old are your kids? I got a six-month-old and a four-year-old. Ah, that's so nice, man. What are you guys doing in the city? Ah, tourist stuff. I've been in New York in probably 15 years, so, like, I'm looking at it a whole different lens now.

I literally sit on a bench and just people watch for a few hours in that kind of, you know. Yeah, just not as much in the cold. Not much in cold, right? Yeah, I can't sit out of bed for a while in the cold. And in Florida, it's a lot warmer, right? Or you guys still have a cold front going on? We had that, like, Arctic Blast, do you guys? had down here. It got like low 40s at night, but it's already back up the high 6070s.

Okay. I'm lucky you guys. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's one of those things like you don't appreciate the warm unless you come back to the cold every now and then. Yeah. Yeah, that is true. Are you originally from New York? So I'm originally from Ohio. Okay. Yeah. We're in Ohio. So there's a working class suburb just east of Columbus, the capital. So I'm from out there. But, you know, as I got older, I lived all over Franklin County, Columbus, Ohio. So if I had to say something was my hometown, it would be Columbus. Okay. Who did you grow up with? So I had a mom and dad in the family, right?

I don't ever remember my parents being together, but they were together for like a short time when I was a baby, but I always remember having two different homes or whatever, but mainly my mother, right? And then like I would see my father on visitation. Like most kids in the 90s, I was like a product of divorce, you know what I mean, see dad on Wednesdays and every other weekend. Did you have any siblings?

I have a half-sister. So my dad had a daughter with another woman besides my mom. After the divorce. It's like an older sister. Oh, okay, before. Yeah, she's still in Columbus, yeah. How old are you when you realize your parents were separated? In my mind, they were always separated.

You know what I mean? Like, I was so young when that they separated, I don't have any recollection of it. How did you feel seeing other kids your age having parents that were together? So, look, I, you know, I've thought about this over the years because me and my dad had it. We had a real weird relationship. Like, there was times when it estranged, at times it wasn't. But, like, I know a lot of guys that grew up without dads, right? And my dad wasn't like the picture, perfect father by any means,

but I never doubted that my dad, like, didn't love me. You know what I mean? So, like, I could understand, like, how some people, like, not having a father around, it could be really traumatizing to their life. But, you know, it was just normal to me. You know, my dad lived over here. My mom lived over here. What did your parents do for work?

So my mom was a waitress. Yeah, well, I'm just a waitress. Food service. She's a lunch lady for a while. You know what I mean? My dad worked for the city. Yeah. Was she your lunch lady?

No, she wasn't my lunch lady Yeah, no That was after I moved on We got older, so What'd your dad do for the city? It's a fireman Oh really? Yeah

Oh, interesting Did you look up to him for that? Um, as I got older Yeah Did you want to become a firefighter? Um, you know, I've thought about it But like I've done so much damage to my past That like my driving record

Even if I wanted to know Fire Department's gonna hire me to drive The little fire truck or city vehicle around You know what I mean? It's just part of it so Do you have a license now? Yeah, I got a license. Okay. So at least you got a license.

Yeah, I got a license. How would people describe you as a kid? What kind of person were you? Man, I, uh, so a lot of people like they come and they talk about their childhood and then like the progressive story begins. But mine actually starts more when I was when I was younger, right? Because I was always in trouble starting right out, you know. How old were you the first time you got into trouble? Probably, I started getting suspended around fifth grade, you know, a lot of acting out.

And like I'm from that generation in the 90s where they're labor. and kids, you know, ADHD and, you know, doping everybody up on, like, riddling and Adderall and stuff. And, like, I don't know, I guess you could say I was, like, seeking attention. Things weren't too good at home. So maybe I was just acting out. Stuff like that, you know what I mean. Do you think the home life had the biggest effect on you?

Almost definitely. Yeah. Most kids, you know. Did your parents have any substance abuse issues? Yeah. So you could swing a dead cat by a tail and hit a drug addict or alcoholic somewhere in my family, you know what I mean? And so it's pretty common.

And like on my mom's side, like I know, you know, her uncle Danny or my uncle Danny, her brother, you know, died of an overdose. Her dad was a heavy drinker. My mom's a heavy drinker. Then on my dad's side, my dad's side was really weird, right? Not really weird, but like they could still function. You know, I'm not saying every member of my dad's side of the family, but they were like really heavy drinkers, but they could still like hold jobs, hold licenses and cars. You know what I mean? Like still function in society without the alcohol affect them too much.

It's just like when they would go home, they would. drink a lot. You know what I mean? Do you think it got passed down to you genetically? Yeah. Yeah, I believe in it being genetically. But that's a whole other topic we could dive into and spend hours on. You know what I mean? Yeah. Do you want to give us the brief summary of why you think that? I don't know. I'm not a scientist. Yeah. Have you done research on it? Like after, you know, being in recovery and stuff out of curiosity for yourself? I went really far down the wormhole on this one day, right and it was like they could so like back when

and I don't know if it's true but this is just what I've read and I read a little bit on it it's like back in the day when we were like hunter gatherers like the hunters like their brains rewired to have like heightened dopamine levels because like when they're out like hunting the saber tooth tiger and it's like chasing them they got to like fight it they got to be like firing on all cylinders right

and then like as humans progressed and then introduced substances like it had something to do with that but like I said that's a whole tangent I'm not going to go off on. How old are you when you realize there was substance abuse issues in your family? I've always known. You know, it was pretty common. And like, so where I grew up, right, and I tell people like this, like I wasn't born in like South Central LA or South Chicago or East Detroit or anything crazy. It's a pretty like blue collar working class area. But I just remember by the

time I was able to start like recognizing things that were going on around me, right? Like everyone on my little block here, like they all struggled with something. And a lot of, the underlying cause of it was alcohol, right? And like a lot of it was like domestic violence, right? And I'm not laughing at like domestic violence, but like, you know, like I had a neighbor to the right and like he was always beating up on his wife. And like the guy across the street and his girlfriend, they were always beating up on each other because they were always drunk.

You know what I mean? So like I really started noticing at a young age like what alcohol did to families. You know what I mean? It's always chaotic. Always the police. The moms always have a black eye. The dads are always getting hot off the trail. You know what I mean?

The dad's not working because he's sitting around drinking all the time. He's not mowing the grass. And it's just like a, you know, a cycle of alcoholism. So fifth grade about you start getting into trouble suspended. Yeah. Getting into like fights too and stuff as acting out. Yeah, definitely. So like this is something like so it really began and I'm sure this is a lot of people's story,

but like the people I started hanging out with. You know what I mean? And as I've gotten more in the recovery, I've learned the term trauma bonding. right so like if you get a bunch of kids that are all from like the same situation where it's really dysfunctional at home they tend to stick together right because they could like identify and vibe with each other on that certain level and what happens when you get a bunch of kids to early teenagers who are all trauma bonding because of chaotic at home it'd go like one or two ways right they could get like involved in sports and go in a positive way or at least

in my case it'd go in the negative way right and I was uh you know I'm like I'm a short dude and I was never like really cool or anything so like I got like picked on a lot you know what I mean and I was like really struggled to like find my identity because I didn't like hang out I didn't fit in with these people or these people or these people or these people when I started finding kids that were from like a similar situation as I was and then like you know we clicked and then we would go out and get in trouble and then like especially like when the weed and the alcohol started coming in like I was like oh I found my people right actually I felt like at home with some people somewhere doing something you know what I mean.

Did you watch that episode with Nadine? I did that Wolf of Wall Street's ex-wife. She really talks about trauma bonding. I haven't. I didn't. I saw the thumbnail, but I didn't list to it. Okay, yeah, because that's what she does now. She's a therapist or psychologist or something in that,

and her specialty is trauma bonds. So it's a really interesting episode. It was really insightful for people, you know, that are coming out of addiction or crime or prison or even relationships. It was very relatable. Yeah, cool. Were you into sports at all? as a kid? So I played

like little league baseball and stuff but where I really started, I got in the BMX right? So like the little area town they built like a skate park probably when I was 12 so like we would all flock to the skate park, you know, right around on bikes and stuff but a lot of times like we would

go to the skate park and yeah like we'd pretend like we were riding but we're really like under the gazebo like just getting in trouble. Yeah that was like me because I never knew how to skate. I would wear the skater clothes because I wanted to fit in. Yeah. and I wanted to be liked, and then I would carry around my skateboard, go to Zumi's at the mall and all that kind of stuff, and pack sun.

It was like an accessory almost. Yeah, exactly. You had to, and then you get the heelies. Did you guys have helies? The helies. I remember the heelies. I never had a fair, but I remember what you're talking about. Yeah, I would always bust my ass, but they were fun.

That's hilarious. Yeah, helies were good, man. I wonder if they make those anymore. I don't know. I wonder if those are still even on the market. When was the first time you got into, like, say, serious trouble? Maybe with the law or anything like that. So, like, before we start going down this rabbit hole, like, I was telling you that I actually organized this interview for another person and I came on, right?

I know you've had, like, some heavy hitters sitting in this chair. And, like, by no means, am I, like, a leader or a prison warrior or anything crazy? I can only tell you my story, you know? But, like, I started getting in small trouble about 12, right? And just, like, real basic stuff, like throwing snowballs at cars, you know, and getting arrested for that. And then, like, I got in a few. fights and like high school you know and like this was this was long then it's crazy to think that this was a long time ago but we're talking about like the

early 2000 so things weren't as like things were a little different things would get swept under the rug a little bit more than they would like today you know but um I had finally gotten on probation for something and then I got in a fight after school when I was 13 and that was like my first time going to the juvenile detention center down there in Franklin County How bad was the fight? So not even really that bad. So really bad misfortune.

So like I told you I used to get picked on, right? So when I finally like started hanging out with like, you know, my people or whatever, like I decided that I was going to stop being bullied. Right. And I remember this kid was like messing me real bad in like front of people. And I was like, I've never been in a fight before. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to challenge this guy to a fight. Right.

So I was like, all right. So we're going to fight after school in these apartment complexes like, on the, the opposite side of the school property or whatever and I thought it might just be like him and me and a few other people but by the time that like the end of the school came like half the school knew so like I'm walking out and like this half the not half but like a large group of people are now coming to watch this fight and um so we ended up getting the fight and literally the moment we start fighting a cop car pulls up and like I was on top of him so then I was the one charged with assault. There was no witnesses that could have said that, you know, you were the one being picked on or

bullied? No, I don't think that would have played out anyway. Wow. It's kind of crazy. You actually got charged, too. I don't know there would be fights in school. No one necessarily got charged. So at this point, like that, that police department of that little area, like, had known me in, like, the small amounts of trouble that I'd been getting up into, up to that point. And, like, I think they were just ready to do something more serious with me or whatever. And then, you know, I went to Juvia at 13, and then from about 13 to 18, I had actually spent more time inside of, like, a juvenile detention placement or corrections than I actually did outside, like, regular school. How did your parents respond to you acting out and getting into trouble as a kid? So my mom, like, my mom worked a lot, man. So, like, you know, she was a waitress, and, like, sometimes she wouldn't get back to, like, eight or nine o'clock at night.

So I'd be out Roman and, like, how do I say this? Like she would be upset, but she, like, really wouldn't do anything about it. It's like yell at me and stuff. And my dad would try to be like the authoritarian, but like I didn't see him enough to really have any effect on me. You know what I mean? And then when I really started getting trouble, I started seeing my dad less and less and less because, you know, oh, my mom will let me do whatever I want and my dad will discipline me. So like, who am I obviously going to, you know, whose house is I going to live at the most when I spend time in my mom's house, right?

Because she lets me do whatever I want or not do whatever I want, but she's not around enough for me. to, you know, for her to know what I'm doing. Did you have a close relationship with your dad, even though, you know, you spent most of your time with your mom and you thought your mom was less strict than him? On into my 20s. Like when I became adult, me and my dad got closer. Yeah. Do you wish he was more involved during your childhood?

So listen, he genuinely did try. He really did, but like I just wasn't receptive to it at that point. You know what I mean? Now, during those years of going in and out of juvenile detention, are you using substances at that point I'm just smoking weed and like drinking and stuff so doing what kids do is doing what kids do and you say that did you end up graduating high school so I graduated but the only reason I graduated so like a lease in the state of Ohio like when you're in a juvenile facility any school work you do in that facility the credits count towards your actual high school that you're supposed to be attending

at least it did then I don't know now now at that point did you have any like career aspirations what you wanted to be when you grew up in high school? Oh, no, not at all. Yeah. So, like, half of me, I always wanted to, like, join the Army. You know what I mean? So that was, like, a far-fest thing I wanted to do. Why the Army?

I don't know. Why not, right? My grandpa was a veteran and stuff, so. And then, yeah, so I went to the juvenile detention center at 13. You know, it's crazy now. Like, I have a job, and I, sometimes, like, I deal with families and stuff. And, like, tourists because I live in Florida, right? And, like, I'll see these 13-year-old kids.

and like you'll see just like how young and immature they are you know what I mean you can tell they come from a good family because they're there with their family but I look at these 13 year old kids I'm like man they were like locking me up when I was that old you know like your mental capacity is not even there at that point you know and like I thought I was running with like a tough crowd or whatever then but by the time I went to the juvenile detention center down there in Franklin County, I'd like a real rude awakening, like really quick. You know what I mean? And like I said, the place where in front of Franklin had working class, working class area, I mean, there's some riffraff or whatever, but like by the time I hit the Franklin County juvenile attention center,

like, you really see what goes on in like the inner city, right? So like there's a lot of these kids, like, you know, real people that are involved in like street gangs and stuff. And like I knew that existed. I've met a few dudes like in passing or whatever, but actually like seeing it in its politics full effect like right there in front of you was like it was pretty intense and I remember it was probably like my second second or third day in and I started I started learning lessons like really quick like what to do and what not to do and the first lesson I learned is like it used to be cold so like dudes would like tuck their arms inside of their you know their thing and like their arms would pretty much be trapped and like there was like a few rows of seats and like with a TV up high

and like everyone was there there and look at the TV and then there was like a bench where like people play cars and I'm sitting at the bench. And like, I'm also watching the TV. And there's, like, this kid. And he's got his, like, arms tucked in his sleeve so he can't really defend himself. And he, like, was having problems with some other dude.

And, like, this dude just walked up these steps and just had target practice on his face, right? And I remember, like, you know, that sound like a meat smack and meat, especially a jaw, like that specific slap crack type sound. And, like, he broke his jaw. And he just sat there just hammered away on this dude's face for a few minutes, right? And I remember, like, his, his. is I didn't like come out of his socket, but like it was like bulging farther out than like it was naturally supposed to.

And then like I watched it happen and like the staff broke it up. And you know, I'm only 13 years old, right? And I realize that like this is, you know, this is something completely different. Join the great rewards hunt at draft Kings Casino where you'll find massive jackpots, exclusive games and weekly rewards. And here's the best part. New players can get 500 casino spins on a featured game. just sign up with code Ian Bick and wager at least $5 to claim your spins.

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How did you feel about those kids that were in gangs and stuff? Did you think it was cool? Or you're like, I'm staying out of trouble at. after this one. Um, like it, it was interesting. You know what I mean? And like, you know, as the years progressed, and I spent more and more time, these places I got to know some of them, right?

And one thing I really started to realize is a lot of them were just normal kids, and more people, you know what I mean? They wanted things. You know, they wanted loved. They just happened to grow up in a different area than I did and had a different, you know, perspective on the world or whatever, you know, and then like, you really start learning like a lot of these, these different neighborhoods and clicks, like they have politics that span back from like, you know, their uncles and their dads and their grandpals.

You know what I mean? So, like, you know, this kid might not like this kid because this kid's dad used to have problems with this dude's dad back in the 90s and 80s. And it's just like a nonstop progression or whatever. Is that because it's like small town vibes? Or is there just only one juvenile detention facility for that region? There's only, yeah, for Franklin County. So Columbus is, I always say it's a big town, a small city, you know?

It's not New York by any means. I mean, it's a city. Were there a lot of violent offenders there? Yeah. Yeah, most definitely. Did that kind of put your life in perspective, too, that you weren't getting into that kind of serious trouble, but you were still there? Well, I mean, and then the story progresses, right?

So, like, my first go, like, you know, I spent, like, two months down there at the juvenile detention center. And then I get out and, like, you know, I think I'm Mr. Cool, Tough guy because I just spent this time in juvenile detention. And then like every time I would get in trouble, like it would be for a more worse thing. And then I would end up spending more time and more time in like a facility. You know what I mean? Why didn't your parents bail you out right away? Or was it mandated to do you months? You can't.

You don't have bail. Okay. So you're stuck there until like what's the capacity? Like the time limit. So at least at least where I'm from, they got seven to ten days until they have to like take you to court until they're either going to release you or hold you for trial or a continuance. So that first fight did you end up getting charged officially? Yeah, yeah.

And they sentenced you to two months? Yeah, they had a program called the cat program. It's like your first time going and like, you know, you take these like classes or whatever in the detention center. And, you know, I started learning really hard lessons. So like, you know, I watched dude get stolen with his arms. You know, lesson number one, you always keep your arms outside of your things. So you could at least, you know, protect yourself.

and then I got assaulted probably two or three weeks after that. My second lesson I learned is you know, you don't cut people in line. Because like we would deal like as a juvenileist, you go to school and then like there's a play, a cafeteria that you go and you eat. And I learn really quick not to cut people in line. And I thought it was cute. And I remember I cut this dude. I still remember his name to his name was Code. And he was probably 17 and I was 13.

And there's a big difference between a 13 year old and a 17 year old, right? And I cut in front of them. And like he said something. And I just kind of laughed about it. And then the next thing you know, I'm coming to it, like, in the nurse's office or the medical department. Because he stole me from behind, right? And I just, everything went black. So that was my second lesson.

You don't cut people in line. You don't keep your arms inside your shirt. When you got out of juvenile detention that first time, did you go back to your same high school that you were in? Yes. So you didn't get expelled. No, it didn't get expelled. So the fight was, the fight. So that ended the school year and then like summer and then the next school year.

Was it weird going back to school after getting out of juvenile detention? Like where people maybe bullying you or, you know, spreading rumors or anything because you were that kid that did time? No, I thought it was like cool. I thought it was like a cool kid because especially like all the people I identified and hung out with were, you know, troublemakers or whatever. So like I kind of wore it like a badge of honor at first. And, you know, that didn't last too long. I'd say about maybe a month later, you know, I was right back in.

I was driving around a car at that. Then, now I was 14. And, you know, me and this buddy, we took out his mom's car in the middle of the night. And, you know, I wrecked it going like 65 miles an hour. And then, like, you know, he's like, oh, man, you wrecked my mom's car. And he ended up going back home. And I just told him to tell his parents that, like, you know, I took it. Whatever.

So what happened when, once he told them? the cop showed up right away. They called the cops? Yeah. Oh, they didn't want to resolve it like between your families or anything? No. Did that in the friendship with you and your friend?

Yeah, things were weird for a while after that. So the cops showed up at your house the next morning? Yeah, the next morning. Well, like the next evening. So where did, did you leave the car somewhere when you wrecked it? So like me and him took the car and like, mind you, we're like 14 years old and like he was talking to this girl or whatever. And like we went over the girl's house.

He's like, oh, I want some time alone. And why don't you like, you know, take the car and go do something. And I knew like this Korean, like, liquor store, corner store that would, like, sell a cigarettes, even though we were underage. So, like, I took the car to the liquor store. I bought the cigarettes. And, like, I'm coming down, like, this hill. And it's like a big five-way intersection. And it's like a really big turn.

But, you know, I don't, I've never really driven before. So I didn't really break. So I went to, like, take this big curve at, like, 50 miles an hour. And I smacked into a giant light pole. The light pool fell down. The car was totaled out. And then like I just got out and ran from it. Oh, you guys left it there?

Yeah, I left it there. Oh, shit. How did your parents react to that arrest? Yeah, they weren't happy. They weren't happy. Why do you think they didn't take any like precautions or anything to maybe move you to a different school, different environment, make sure you're you're hanging out with different people after that first time? I mean, they didn't have the means to like really necessarily move.

And then, I mean, you could you could say they tried. but at the end of the day, if someone wants to, like, you know, if I want to do something, I'm going to do it. You know what I mean? So you get arrested and put back to juvenile detention? Yeah, back in juvenile detention. And, you know, and by this time, like I said, I'm a little, I'm a littler guy, right? And then, like, the bullying started again, right? And, like, you know, guys were trying to, you know, call me out in front of people and try to belittle me or whatever.

and then, you know, I finally decided I'm not going to take it. And like when I say all this, like, I'm not an MMA fighter. I'm not like this big street fighter or anything. But, you know, I eventually learned if I don't step up for myself and like nip this in the bud now, it's just going to keep continuing and continuing. And it might sound real cowardly, right? But especially in like a juvenile attention where there's staff everywhere, like you got to learn the art of just stealing on people, especially if they're bigger than you, you know.

And so like at any, and then I realized like any fight is going to be broken up within 20 to 30 seconds. So like it's better just, it's better just to get your licks in and make it look like you're, you know, you're not weak. And just get it over with. And then at least you have their respect. And then at least the people will stop bullying you and messing with you. You know what I mean? How long are you in there for that stint? So that time was another few months, maybe a month and a half.

half. And then, you know, I get back out. And then I keep violating probation because I can't stop smoking weed, you know. And then I got put back a juve again. Then that was my first time I went to a, do you know the term placement? In the juvenile detention system? Yeah, in the juvenile attention system. So like, at least in Ohio, I can't speak on other states. You have like a juvenile attention, right? That's where you are for a small sentence or if you're waiting trial. I mean, you know that. You know what I mean? Until your sentence. And in the state of Ohio, like our juvenile correction system is called D.YS Department of Use Services. I know in

California, it's like YA, Florida, it's like the useful offenders, but in Ohio, it's called the Department of Use Services, right? So there's a step before Ohio Department of Use Services is called a placement. Like sometimes it's a lockdown facility, but you're technically not doing like a sentence in DYS or whatever. So like, it's like usually they'll try sending you there once or twice before they actually send you to the to the to the YS. So like I went through my first placement and so I was a juvie for quite a few months on that. And then I went and I had to do six months there. Right. And it was just it was pretty bad. So that's my first time like, hey, you have to do six months. When you're a teenager, six months seems like forever. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so yeah, they had me there. They took me to this place and I just wasn't getting on at all. And by this by this time like, Like I'm full-fledged rebellious. Like I can't, I just, I can't sit still. I'm disrespecting staff.

I just don't want to be there. Don't want to do the school work. And like it was a lockdown place. Like you couldn't get out of the unit. And then like where you did outdoor wreck, there was like a fenced in little area, high fences. And they would give me my shoes for like a month and a half, like for whatever reason. And I remember the first time they gave me back my shoes. We were going to, we were going to the outside wreck.

and then like between the wreck. So it's like it's off Allen Creek Drive and it's like near the adult community correctional facility. There's like the sheriff. Our office has like a satellite department there. And then there's the place I was at. And like before as you're leaving the building to go to the outdoor kind of fenced in area,

there's like a gap where it's just open parking lot and then like the sheriff's office. But technically you could run like right to the little highway right there. So we, and I ever took a veil. of this lady too. It wasn't even like a staff member there. It was like a counselor who was taking us outside as like art or something stupid like that.

And the moment we got in between like that little open area is like it wasn't pre-planned or anything. I just looked to the right and I saw the open highway and I just took off running. So like I ended up kind of, I wouldn't call it escaping because I didn't like tunnel through a tunnel or hop any, you know

what I mean? Get in a laundry basket and get pushed out. But like I got right. right the fuck out of there. And, you know, I run across this highway and, like, you know, the sheriff's there, the adult community correctional facilities are there. And I ended up running across street. I run into these woods. I'm running through this graveyard.

And as I'm running through this graveyard, I accidentally, like, kick a headstone. And, like, it rips my big toe nail off, like, my big toe. But long story short, I ended up walking, like, six and a half miles all the way back to, like, the area I was from with this broken toenail. And then, you know, they put, you know, warrant. out for my arrest. And this is like my first time, you know, and I probably, I wasn't even 16 yet. And this was like my first time experiencing, knowing what life was like out there on your own. Because like I didn't go home and they'd go back to my parents' house. I couldn't because that's

where they were there looking for me. So like, you know, I tried roaming around and like I would stay with like friends or whatever, but they couldn't like keep their mouth closed. I mean, rightfully so they're like teenagers, but they would go to school and be like, oh, I guess who's like standing at my house or whatever and that would get up to the police and then police would show up there. So I ended up, you know, ending up on the side of town and I was like literally living out on the street as like a 15 year old. But I wasn't like on hard drugs yet. Like I was smoking weed or whatever. And like that's when I really started seeing like the ugly side of the world.

Right. And like, you know, I like I met this prostitute who was like a woman to me then. Like she seemed like a really old woman, but she was probably younger than I am today. And like I remember like she like took me in because like I was younger or whatever. And, like, she would smoke weed with me and stuff. And she would, like, take me to people's houses so I could, like, take showers and sleep. And, you know, this went on, like, at 15 years old, I was just literally pretty much sleeping outside. It's kind of roaming around, figuring it out.

Why was no one batting an eye that there's, like, you know, a teenager walking around, you know? So this sounds real messed up, but in some parts of Columbus, it's not a common, you know. You go in an area where there's a lot of drug activity, you see all types of crazy shit. Were your parents actively looking for you that you knew of? I'm sure they were. Yeah. And it was funny. I was walking down the street.

And I was looking real grody at that point. Like I just had like a backpack and like, you know, I would try to take clothes from like thrift stores or whatever. And then my old neighbor. So like I was telling you about that street where like everyone, you know, was getting drunk and just being all crazy and stuff. We had a neighbor on the left, Miss Heidi Carter. And she just happened to be driving down the street and saw me one day. And she's like, you really need to. go home and see your mom. I went home and saw my mom and she's like, yeah, just sleep here,

you know, take a shower. We'll get all this figured out. And my mom called the coughs on me later that night. So like I was in bed and they came and got me. How long on the run was that total? A few weeks. A few weeks. I mean two or three weeks. Pretty good run for, you know, a juvenile for your age. How did you react when you found out your mom was the one that called the cops? Oh, I was super upset, right? But, you know, now as an adult, I understand, like, you know, I understand, right? Because like at the end day, I had to face it, it was never going away. and at the end of day, she could have gotten trouble for having me there. But, you know, at the time I'm super resentful, right?

You know? And how much more time did you get in juvenile detention for that? So I went to juvenile attention, spent a few more months, and then went to a different, like, placement program in a different place. Did they all think you were, like, the cool guy in there for technically escaping? It was funny because, like, before I left the juvenile attentioner and then went to the placement program. I remember telling a few guys and they're like, oh, I'm running

from this place. I'm not staying. And even though it was an impulsive move to like jet right when I did, it was like still in my subconscious that I was going to do it. And like I walked back in and they already knew what happened. Then I ended up going to a different placement and it was real low key. There's actually nothing crazy

to report. You know, you just went to school. When did you get done with the juvenile detention system? A few times after that, man. So I get out of there. And I get back out and then I get back in trouble again and I used to tag

right like to do graffiti and like we had this like little group or whatever and like we would tag all over town and then we got caught for tagging and then like someone told her somehow and then they connected everyone's name to the name you would tag on

so I had like 26 criminal damaging violating probation again and Got caught with weed at a different high school. So then I went back to Juvie and then I went to a different placement again this time. But this is my longest straight. So like I had done like, you know, six months, four months, one month, two months.

But this time, like I ended up doing about 10 months, right? And they, I went to another placement. And if anyone's from Ohio and like went through the juvenile justice system in like the early 2000s, there was this place called Cornell of Braxis. And the Braxton, like Cornell of Braxas is like a juvenile behavior. conglomerate. It's like a big corporation that owns like different facilities in like PA, Indiana, Ohio or whatever. And this place, this place, it was a bit different than like what I was used to. Like the other places were almost like kindergarten compared to this place.

Like not as much as like violence on like kid on kid, but it was like real intense. And it actually came out quite a few years later. But there was like a lot of staff abuses that went on in this place. and like so they have locked down units but technically they don't have locked down rooms right so like if you would while out what they would do is they would like restrain the shit out of you they twist you up like a pretzel until you literally had just no more fight left in you and then they would send you back in your room but they were like they were doing it to a crazy level like if you disrespected like the staff they would just twist you up and slam you down on the floor and lay on top of you for 20 minutes and they actually got a lot of you of trouble for this as the years went on. I remember there was this kid, and he had, like, he was born with, like, a birth effect, right? And he had, he had, like, a smaller arms.

It's really fucked up, man, because kids used to call him, like, T. rex and shit. But, um, he, actually, I liked him. And his name was Randy. And they, uh, you know, they ended up restraining him and, like, breaking one of his, like, you know, disformed arms or whatever, right?

And, like, uh, his family was threatening to, like, you know, take him the quarterback. And they released him. immediately to like cover it up oh like they cut a sentence down yeah they's cut a sentence down let them out so like once you get sentenced to the placement they decide you're out time so it's six to ten months you know what I mean so if you be if you behave and you like you know you jump through all their hoops and you're going good at school they could decide if you get out in six months to ten months are they

doing like counseling at all or therapy or anything like that counseling and therapy and stuff did that help you at all or no not at all I was receptive to any of it you know Why do you think that was? It just wasn't my time to be receptive to it. You know, I didn't care. Were your parents supportive while you were in there, like visiting you, keeping a relationship? Not so much.

They maybe came two or three times entire like nine, ten months I was up there. Why do you think they didn't, you know, come off than her be supportive? They were over me, right? I was like, I was caught a lot of chaos in their house and bringing, you know, I was really mean to my mom. I can never like, you know, like physically abuse my mom or anything crazy. like that, but me and her were just getting like these vicious, vicious arguments. You know what I mean? Does that put your perspective or change your perspective now as a dad,

you know, raising your kids? What do you mean? Like, do you think now, now that you're a parent, if your kids would act that way, if you would be there for them or not? Or how would you navigate it? I mean, within reason, I would definitely be there for them. You know what I mean? So how old are you when you were completely done with the juvenile?

justice system. 18. Yeah. And where were you at in life? Did you have a job? Were you planning to go to college? So after the 10 months, I ended up getting in trouble one more time, right? And then I ended up doing a year for that.

And then by the time I get out. So I had a lot of people help me along the way. Like a lot of the educators, you know what I mean? Because like at that point, so I'd failed like ninth grade twice because of absences and like just not showing. up to school and stuff. A lot of these educators like smudged records, you know what I mean? So I'd

at least get out with the high school diploma. Right? And then like I remember there was this principal named Mr. Tessa when he come in like we need some credits for like gym or whatever and he'd be like, oh do you play basketball during yard time or whatever? It'd be like yeah, he's like well it seems like a gym credit to me, right? And then they hooked me up with like an online school.

So like even after I was done taking like the school, you're required to attend I would do online school like in the afternoon. So like it accelerated. So somehow, some way, I actually, I left it all with a high school diploma. Okay. And did you want to go to college? Did you go to college? No. So I, uh, so I get out freshly 18 and then, um, remember I was wanted to join the army, right? So, uh, I, I, um, I put out my record because you have to like, show the record or whatever. And I end up going to like an active

army recruiter. And I'm like, you know, I want to join the army. This is in 2007. So this is like Dern Bush had like his big troop surge thing. It was just crazy times in 87. And like I remember I went into the active army recruiter and he looked at my record. He's like, man, I can't even begin to like try to waver all this. But he like gave me a nudge. He gave me like a wink wink. He's like, you should go talk to the Army National Guard recruiter.

I'm like, all right, cool. So I went over to the Army National Guard recruiter and he was like a real scumbag. But he was able to wave. He was able to pretty much hide most of my record. Once against 2007, things aren't as caught up as they are now. And then he's like, well, if you want to go active army, he's like, join the National Guard. You could get back, and then within six months, you could then go to the active army. I'm like, all right, cool, cool.

And then, yeah, so then I end up actually going to basic training. It was actually called O-Sit. I'm surprised. None of that was under seal, your juvenile record. No, you still, you have to show it. Okay, and you can get any type of, like, accelerated rehabilitation where they knock off some charges or anything. No, not at that point. And I mean, we left a, we left a lot out that, you know, I was actually charged with as a juvenile. Some serious crimes or? Yeah, yeah, there's some, they're

serious. So my last, the thing that I got done for the last time, it was a firearm possession and, like, tampering with evidence. Then they tried, they tried to charge us with a discharge of a firearm into, like, a habitation, because, like, we were shooting out, like, streetlights and stop signs. and I guess like one went to a house allegedly So like and then even though I wasn't charged with it It was still like shown that Not even though I wasn't convicted of it It was still shown that I was charged for it

You know what I mean? So like when I printed out my record and take it to the recruiter They still see all of that you know what I mean You thought this was your run club era Turns out it was more of a thinking about run club era The good news someone's marathon training is about to start Sell your workout gear on D-pop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying.

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And then I end up staying my dad. And then long story short, I end up running away for the summer, right? So like I'm kind of just like living back out on my own as like a teenager, like staying with friends or whatever. And then this is when I kind of got into like the cannabis a little bit. Like I was just selling like small sacks of weed or whatever, make an extra $100 a week. And I'm not really like too big of a thief or like a burglar. But me and a good friend of mine, we went over this dude's house. and like he was like this wannabe

Coke dealer like he was just he was full shit like he sold a little bit of coke or whatever and he was uh but he acted a lot tougher than he really was and like we were sitting in his room and like he had this safe and he was like showing us all these firearms he was like oh like you know I do this down and third and like me and my buddy look at each other

like oh yeah we're coming back for this guy dude and um and sure enough we went back and uh we ended up climbing his back window and we took a safe and uh we had the firearms out of it and then we were trying to like sell the firearms for cash obviously right and then we had another friend who had just got in trouble for a robbery he had like beating up this dude and took his book bag or whatever and he um like they made a deal with him like oh if you could help us out with X amount

of felonies we could work with you right so he actually set it up he told us like listen um you know i want to take a look at some of his guns might buy him and then as we go pick him and then like it was a it was a set up from the beginning like soon as we picked him up They were like following us. Then we're like driving down the street. And then we get lit up by, you know, the cherries and berries. And then like some of cars, undercover cars, like, cut us off. And anyone from Columbus knows, like, they've been using that police helicopter for as long as I could remember.

Like, it is always overhead. And sometimes it shows up for just the smallest shit, right? Like, and you'll be sitting in your backyard. And they'll be, like, illuminating, like, going up and down the backyards. Like, anyone from Franklin County knows you always hear that thing every single day. But it, like, lit us up. And then they, like, brought us out of the car. And then because, like, I was with adults since I was a juvenile.

I took the charges for the firearms. And said it was yours because you were going to get less time. Because I didn't get less time, yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I'm surprised now that the military accepted you, like, to go to basic. So that's why he was like, wink, wink, go to talk to the National Guard recruiter. And I think what the National Guard recruiter did is like, I'm from Franklin County. But he's like, you know, here we'll get you a licking county address.

So if they pull their file, it'll look like it's coming from a different county. And he finagled it. but he actually ended up finagling me, right? Because during that time, they were giving out like $20,000, $25,000 sign-up bonuses. And when I ended up going to OSA, I went to Fort Knox, I was the only person there that didn't get a sign-on bonus. So, like, he benefited too, right? Wait, you think he pocketed the sign-on bonus?

I don't think he, like, pocketed it, but I'm sure he gets incentives for spending as less money as possible to get people. And, you know what I mean? I'm not saying he, like, pocketed a 20. $20,000, but I'm sure he got some kind of incentive to do it. How did your parents feel about you going to the military? So at this time, my mom, so during, as I got in trouble again, my mom dipped. I didn't see her for like seven years after that, right?

And, you know, and then like even after I got out, like, I wasn't back at my dad's house. So my dad didn't even really know. I just kind of like showed up at his house one day to grab some clothes. I'm like, oh, by the way, I'm going to the Army or whatever. He's like, oh, okay. And then, you know, I went. Do you think you wanted to join the Army to kind of like force yourself to escape the path you were on? Exactly.

I just want to get the fuck out of Columbus, Ohio. You know what I mean? Did you know that you wouldn't be able to smoke weed or do any type of drugs or anything joining? Yeah, yeah. Was that hard to let go when you first? No, I didn't let it go. That's why it didn't last too long, you know what I mean? So I ended up, I go to Fort Knox and like the behavior is still in there, right?

So, at least back then, like, you have basic training in AIT or if you have like a certain MOS, you do something called OSIT. It's one stop unit training. So you do the basic and the job training all in the same place, same instructors, everything. You know what I mean? So, you know, I was in the Army National Guard. So that means like I did basic. There's like four months with basic in the job training. And then like you get out and you do one week in a month, two weeks out of the year.

Okay. Right. So, and actually I really, I really excelled at it. But by the time I go, and then you got to realize I've been going back to right where I was trying to escape. And by the time I get back there, like, you know, I'd saved a decent amount of money for an 18 year old, you know, doing all that. And like, I was completely influenced right away with the same people, same stuff. So, I mean, within a year, I was discharged. Not dishonorable. It's like a general under honorable. You know what I mean? Like literally my, so they call it. drills like you have to show up on a weekend it's called you got to go to drill on like my my third drill I didn't show up because like I was in the county you know what I mean and they were almost ready to slip that under the rug but my dumb ass couldn't stop smoking weed you know what I mean so like I show back up they're like oh maybe we can do something then I then I dropped 30 and there's like you know there's nothing we can do man like you fucked up were you dabbling in any other drugs at the time or just weed uh so yeah yeah yeah and then I started started dabbling and like a lot of a lot of my

They started dabbling in the hard of drugs in the teens, but I was never at home. So, like, when people are experiencing, like, ecstasy and coke and shit, like, I'm not there. So, like, I was, like, late to the hard drug party, I guess, if you call it like that. But, you know, I started, you know, dabbling around with X. Actually, like, and, like, I sound really bad because, like, you know, you'll get some veterans on here. And, like, when I talk about being a national guard, like, you know, I'm really ashamed of it. You know what I mean? Because I fucked it up, you know, so I don't want to take anything.

away from anyone that like served honorably was able to get their shit together and not get in trouble like I'm not sitting here bragging about it I don't think it's cool it was actually it really tore me up for years because it was like I finally made it out I'm finally able to do what I want to do and I fucked it up so that hang real heavy on that so like I'm not bragging about this but this is just like my story right so do you ever a picture what life would have been like had you stuck with the military and and stayed with it and stayed sober and followed the rules I mean, yeah, I don't know. Don't waste much time.

Don't waste much time. Yeah, could have would have should have. It's in the past. In the past, yeah. So what happens after you get discharged? So at this time you've got to realize from 13 until about 19 and a half, I've been in like a real, like, controlled environment, like discipline. And like, then I get out and, like, I have nothing to do, no one telling me what to do. You know what I mean?

So I immediately just start falling back on old behaviors with the old people. And then this is kind of when I started getting. So all that money I'd save from the military, like, you know, I started investing it in like just drugs. Drugs or so. And like I said, I'm not going to sit here and be like, you know, I'm like some ecstasy kingpin or some shit or whatever, right? But, you know, that's when I really started getting into like the cannabis. And this is a, or weed, you know what I mean? And this is 2009, 2010, I guess.

and this is like, I guess, the golden age before everyone was, you know, doing shit with cannabis. Yeah, that's when I was a freshman in high school, 2009 to 2010. And I would just go find odd jobs and then I would just sell weed and, like, I'm not a big trafficker, kingpin, or whatever, but, I mean, like, you know, at 20 years old,

if you're making an extra $400 or $500 a week, you know, just selling a few ounces, I mean, that adds up, you know what I mean, on top of the job. Why don't you try to move, to a different city or a different state at that point. I did eventually. I was just stuck.

I was stuck. Want to be around my friends that weren't doing me no good. Did anyone else try to join the military in your friend group or anything to escape that life? Yeah, I had a few guys. And were they successful with it? Yeah, super successful. Were you envious of them at all? No, no, I was happy for them.

So what happens next? So I just, you know, a few years go by. And then, you know, we start doing really good at the weed thing. right and then I started getting into the like actual cultivation of it and like these were the days when you could still get $4,000, $4,800 out of a pound, right? So, you know, we started setting up little tiny grow houses, you know what I mean? I remember I was, I wasn't doing too well and then my buddy, he was doing real. He's like, listen, I'm going to put you in a house. All you have to do is sit there, water some plants and make it look like someone lives there.

You know what I mean? And I'll teach you everything. You know, so I kind of got, took it under the wing by somebody. and he really introduced me into like the cultivating of cannabis. And like we weren't doing massive operations at first, but you know, like if you're swinging four one thousands, then you're getting a pound to a pound and a half

and you're getting, you know, $4,800 out of that pound every three to four months. Like it's not like you're rich, but you could definitely like build something on it. You're paying your bills, you're living. Paying her bills, paying our living. And then that's when we started like,

you know, we just started getting, as time went on, we just started getting more sophisticated with it. it. So like, you know, I would always partner with people. I'd be like, Ian, like, you know, you have a house, you have a basement. How about I help you pay your electric bill. We set up some lights and then we'll split this at the end of that. And if I, like, I have you and another guy and another guy all doing it, plus I have my house where I'm completely, you know, and if I'm running six to eight lights there, then like as, as it all comes around and the

money comes in, and I mean, it starts becoming real profitable, right? And this is right about the time I realized like I think I have a problem with substances right because like I started drinking real heavy and like I would be at the bars and clubs and like when everyone else would go out and have a great time and you know I would always have to be the person that drank the most and it was always super chaotic you know what I mean like I was always the one that like had to be carried out of the bar carried out of the house party I was always the one that was trying to get into a fight and most of the times I would get beat up right you know what I mean I was always the one getting beat up. I was always the one wrecking cars. I was always the one getting arrested.

And I could just never understand why. And then, you know, I found myself like, you know, if you drink or however you feel like shit in the morning, like what's the best way that you can make yourself feel better again? Drink more. You just drink more. Why did you turn to drinking at, like, why do you chef from just weed to alcohol? I think of a lot of it's a cultural thing, right? Because it's like, oh, you're 21, you're supposed to like party, man, you know what I mean? And that was like the age of like, I don't know, like, Wiz Khalifa dropped like that cushion orange juice and everyone was just like, party and smoke weed, party

and smoke weed, like all the cool kids are doing it, right? So I almost feel like it's pushed down culturally on you. You know what I mean? Now, you were mentioning ecstasy you were using. Were there any other drugs too, or is it just excessy, weed, and liquor? So, like, I went through like a little Coke bender, right? And

like, I realized, like, oh, I have a problem with this, right? So I kind of stopped using it. The hard, the real hard drugs didn't start. like I was doing okay. I was make a little bit of money, right? Like I would work. I had like some of this weed stuff going on and like, you know, I was it rich by any means, but by like 23 or 24, like I had my own house. You know what I mean. It was a nice house, was a big house, but it was my house. It's pretty good for a 23, 24 year old. Like I didn't have like a nice car, but I had a car.

I had two cars. You know, I tried starting a small, I had a small landscaping business and you know, like I was always trying to fight away to, you know, make more money, make more money. but then I started picking up, like, expensive habits, right? So, like, on my birthday one year, I was like, you know, I think I'm going to go skydiving as like a group. So we went skydiving as a group, and I liked it so much. I was like, oh, I'm going to go take a course to, you know, be able to jump on my own. I took this thing called a static line course where when you jump, it pulls out your parachute. But anyway, on like my third jump, we jump, it's really windy that day.

And, like, I'm coming down and I'm, like, way away from the drop zone or whatever. and it's really windy and I panic and I go to land and I ended up like snapping my leg in half, right? Like, you know, you ever seen the mold like skateboarding videos or like dudes in their legs will look like in a position they're not supposed to be in? I was my leg like it was like flapping around in like different directions.

And like I heard the bone break. And like I didn't walk for a while, but I went to the hospital, I had multiple surgeries and that's when they prescribe the opiates. So like that added like the, The substance abuse, the attic was always in there. Like it just came out with like smoking every day, you know what I mean? And drinking way too heavy.

But by the time like the opiates had hit me like I'd found it, that thing I'd always been looking for. What was that feeling for you when you had opiates in your body that first time? Man, I remember like because I had like small surgeries where they prescribed you like a few vikiness or whatever. And that was back like when the pill epidemic was really taken off. And I would take them and be like, I don't really see the high. hype about all this, you know what I mean? But I remember at the hospital after the leg broke, they like hooked up the IV and they put Dilauded in there and I literally like felt it go up my arm to my back and then it was just like instant. I heard someone describe it one day. It's like if you're

out in the cold and you've always been out in the cold and you finally find like that warm blanket to like wrap around yourself to comfort you. I was like that's that's what it is right there. So when you leave the hospital does everyone, everything start to unravel? everything. So I gave it a good run at first, right? And a lot of people I had known, so what are we in like 2011, 2012-ish. And like a lot of people I grew up with, I've seen them go down like the pain pill route. But like I just, I never understood. I'm like, man, how are you guys like destroying your life like this? And like, you know, I started out like, I just started taking too many than the doctor was prescribing me. Right. And then like, you know, I would run out before the month was over. And then I would have to buy them

off the street. And then before you know, I was running out in a week and have to buy them off the street. And I remember the first time, and like at this point, I had like a small landscaping company. We're doing pretty well on the cannabis. And like, it's not affecting me because like I have, I'm being prescribed them. But I remember the first day, I was like, you know, this is getting a lot of control. I've been on these for a while. And I'm like, I'm just not going to take them, right? And I remember I went to sleep that night and I woke up in the middle of night. And like I felt like I had the flu, right? Like I'm kicking, sneezing. Like, I was in proper withdrawal, but I didn't understand, like, quite what was happening yet. It was because I didn't have, didn't have the

drugs. And then I went and found some oxy and then, like, the withdrawals went right away. And then, like, then began the endless cycle of just taking oxy to not be sick. Because if I was definitely sick, I couldn't take care of any of my affairs. So I really just had to keep doing it so I could get everything done. You know what I mean? I didn't really see the, adverse effect at first because like I had a little bit of money. You know what I mean? So like I still had stuff. Like I still had the house, still the car, still had ways to make money.

But I was just spending a lot of money on the pills. But like it wasn't affecting me quite yet. I hadn't thrown everything out. Was your cannabis business, a legitimate business in the sense where like you guys were treating it like a real business because it sounds like you invest in a landscaping company from that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it wasn't like you were just doing like a small time thing, not saying you

were doing a big time thing. Like a good medium. A good medium thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, no, we were just real rag-tagging. It was still in Ohio, too. So, like, legalization hadn't came through. And that's actually a really good point.

It leads me to the next saga of it, right? So I was getting really bad on the pills, and we decided we wanted to go legit, right? So Michigan is just north of us, particularly Detroit. Right? A lot of people don't know Michigan was like the shining house on the hill for cannabis, at least for the Midwest back then, right? And they had a lot of, they had really lax laws even compared to like California and Colorado back then. So at least back

then was medicinal, medicinal in Michigan, you could grow 12 plants in any phase. You know what I mean? If you had your thing. And the racket was like, all right, so I could grow my 12 plants. We get you up to the doctor. We get your, you know, your script wrote for you. And we could sign over your rights and I become your caretaker. Right. So now I could grow my 12 plants. and your 12 plants. And you can do that up to, I believe, it was like five patients. So technically, legally,

you grow 72 plants in any phase. And how much does revenue does one plant bring in? That depends. Depends on a lot. You know what I mean? How big do you get it? How big? So we always ran soil.

Like a lot of people are on the aeroponics and hydroponics. We always just had big soil pots. And in the Midwest, you get like these real deep cut basements. I'm sure you have them like here in Connecticut. But like all the older house have basements with just concrete eat that runoff to a drain. So, I mean, it depends how long you veg it out. So, like, how long you keep it in the cycle before you kick it over to flour, you know.

When did you start using your proceeds from that and, you know, your business to fund your opiate addiction? I mean, the whole, the whole time. But at that point, I was making, I was making enough money to cover it and, like, cover my drug addiction and keep myself afloat, you know, or the place to live in a car. and stuff. Did any of your partners realize what was going on? Yeah, they started to, right? I kept it real cool for a while.

And how my old best friend slash business partner found out as we went out to Vegas for my birthday. And I had like hidden a bunch of pills like in my stuff, you know, to take through TSA. I put like two in a pocket here, one in a sock, one in a, you know what I mean? Like spread it out all

over all my stuff. And we went out to Vegas for my birthday and I was like four or five days. And then by day three, I had used all the pills I took in, right? And I was just like completely like in horrible withdrawal. And they're like, what the fuck's wrong with you, bro?

You know what I mean? And that's when my partner found out. And then we get back and then I was like, I'm going to make a big life change. I was like, we'll go to Detroit. Right? Well, partner's like, yeah, let's go to Detroit. And my idea was like we could try to set this up

and start getting legitimate with it. I could get away from, you know, the drugs and we could start all over. but if you want to get clean off opious, Detroit is not like the best place to go get to get off dope. You know what I mean? And that like started the whole new saga.

And we were up in Detroit for a while. And like we were doing, we did really well. We ran one big round. And I just, I met these guys. I really like Detroit. Detroit has,

has his own personality. Like no other city that I could explain, right? And this was in 2013. So that's like when the city filed for bankruptcy and like Kwamee, Cool Patrick, he was like a mayor that got indicted for like, embezzling a bunch of funds. He was sent to prison. A lot of the streetlights weren't working.

So Detroit was like the Wild West for the cannabis industry. You know what I mean? Because people were just, there's no enforcement. So like everyone's up there just blowing houses and blowing warehouses out. And so I ended up getting in with these dudes, these guys. And by this time, so let me backtrack. Am I messing all this up? Am I rambling?

You're doing good, man. I'm doing okay. We're in 2013. We're in 2013. And we had started, I had a buddy, and we were going down the South Florida, like, during the pill mill things or whatever. And we would go down there. And I'd never, like, went to the doctor myself, but, like, I sponsored a person who was in with the doctor. So, like, I covered the rental car and all the money.

And I remember we went all the way down there. And there was, like, we went to the doctor's office. And it was, like, boarded up. And they had, like, yellow stickers on it. the doctor had been raided. So we drove all the way down there and we drive all the way back to Ohio extremely dope sick and that was my first time

trying heroin. You know what I mean? Wow. And heroin's like, and like I was like, I'm not going to use needles, you know what I mean? I'm not a junkie. They're like, oh, you could sniff it just like how you sniff your pills. You know what I mean? And it instantly made sense because you could do $300 worth of oxy or you could do $20 worth of dope. Heroin, right? And I'm like, oh, well, this

makes financial sense. Like, yeah, this heroin thing sounds like a good idea, right? And then I'd found a guy, Detroit, at least in our reason, Detroit was always known for, like, because, like, the Canadian border is right there. And a lot of stuff comes across from Canada,

and, like, Detroit was always known for having, like, really good dope. You know what I mean? And then, yeah, we had a really big round, around being, like, we had a, you know what I mean, we grow a good crop. And then that was, like, the biggest amount of money I'd ever had

at like one singular time off around. And then within probably two months, I'd just spend it all. On dope. On dope. That's crazy that if the doctor wasn't closed that day, you might have never had a dope addiction. I'm sure it would have happened eventually. Because, like, that was, like, a trend.

Because, I don't know. How, what are you? 29. Also, we're not too far apart. But, like, there was, like, the heyday in South Florida. Like, everyone was driving down there. And like it's funny, like you go, you used to go up like 75 going up in the Georgia. And they, especially my region, they would call us pill billies.

Like hillbillies that would come to Florida to come do pills. And they had a big sign on 75 as you're getting near the Georgia border that said pill billies go home. So like it was on a downward, it was on a downward track anyway. It was all eventually going to get shut down regardless. Yeah, I'd heard from stories about sponsors from guests exactly what you were just explaining how you would sponsor someone to go down there. and they would get their pills and whatnot and it was just a revolving door. So now you're on heroin in 2013.

How old are you at that time? 24, 25, I guess. And you don't have any relationship with your family. No, not really. Like I would tap in with my dad every now and then. Like, but he had no idea how bad it was got. I'd only see him a few times a year. You know, and I would always like,

I was real good at cleaning up. You know, if you go get a haircut, brush your teeth, trim your beard, put on some nice clothes, and act like you got it halfway together. I was pretty good at like, you know, acting like everything was all right. What happens to your businesses? So I decide, oh, I fucked everything up. So like when you're really high on, when you're on those hard drugs, like you can't, I can't manage stuff. So like, I'm not answering phone calls.

I can't pay insurances on cars. You know, I lost my license. You know what I mean? Like I'm driving around trying to drive, you know, a work truck, new landscape. I don't have a license. I'm getting pulled over. You know what I mean? Like the people I would have like come work for me.

Like I was getting them high and they were just like not showing up. And then, you know, I wasn't paying electric bills. I was just real sloppy, you know. And did your business partner kick you out of the weed business at this point? No, so we're in Detroit, right? And I eventually was like, you know, I need some help. Right. So that was the first time I went to treatment.

And over in a place called Battle Creek, Michigan. It's over kind of near Chicago and Michigan. And that was my first time I went to treatment. And like during this time, I noticed there was like a lot of law enforcement like heat coming down on us. Because like, so we would grow it in Michigan, like technically kind of legally in a great area. But we would just take it right back to Ohio and sell it back on the black market. You know what I mean? So it might have been kind of being grown in the way.

like a legal aspect, but by the time we were trying to turn it back into money, like we were doing a state where it wasn't legal. And plus we were crossing into a different state, right? And like, you know, I'll save the long story, but a lot of, a lot of people I was working with in Columbus, they started getting a lot of trouble, right? And like, they would get caught. And then like there would be rumors of like, oh, you know, people are telling on you and stuff. And I, you know, I didn't pay attention to. I'm like, I'm not doing any, like, I'm not here like killing people, not here driving like Mercedes. Like, I'm just a guy in a work truck, you know, just growing and selling a little bit of pot.

But I didn't realize, like, and especially, like, when you start crossed the line of, like, you know, doing the Florida trips, you know what I mean? Like, you start crossed the line. And when I noticed, like, something wasn't right is I got pulled over and I didn't have a driver's license, right? And then, like, cops in Columbus, if you don't have a driver's license, a lot of time, they're just like, they'll cut you a ticket and say, don't drive your car, make sure you show up to a cord date. And I'm sitting there waiting on this process, and there's, like, a cop car behind me,

I'm watching it in my rear view. And then I see like a red pickup truck pull up behind the cop car. I'm like, you know what the fuck is this shit? And like this dude hops out of the car. And he's like short and he has like gauges in his ear. And he has like glasses. And he looks like a rocker like a dude. You see it like a sublime show or something.

Right. Yeah. Like what is this? And then he like pulls and he has like the little sheriff badge like on a thing. And he was like an undercover cop. I'm like, why is it another cover cop showing up to a traffic stop? And like he now becomes part of. it and I'm just like this is something's off and they find like a small amount of money like

$2,800 or something you know what I mean like nothing too crazy and they actually compensate it from me. I'm like where like you know I'm a landscaper I can prove where this come from and um you know it's just it's just real weird and like it wasn't the drugs like I started noticing like uh just patterns of stuff you know what I mean like people sitting out front of the house and like they're really good right because uh he they they were they were trying they were trying to see if i was slipping uh so i i end up having to call him and call him calm and they were recently going to release the money back to me this $2,800 little money or whatever and um he's like oh we'll come to you i was like oh i just come to the police department he's like no we'll come

to you so i had him like meet me street streets over and they like pull up in like a gold catelac same dude with the gauges and another dude with like big earrings like these guys look like I would sell we do these deeds. And then they're driving around in gold Cadillac. So I really started noticing stuff like that. We had another, we had this idiot that, you know, it was like part of this little thing we were doing. And he got in a lot of trouble.

And then, like, he got all high on Xanax and told his little partner one day, like, you know, I told on them. I broke down everything I know about them. And like his little friend called me and was like telling me, like, you know, listen, everything that he knows, they now know. But we didn't let him know everything. know everything so it wasn't too crazy. So we started having,

we started having a lot more attention like that. You know what I mean? Start getting pulled over a lot more often than you should have. So that was another reason I went to Detroit and then, yeah, then lost all my money and then I went to rehab. And, you know, when I was in rehab, I still wasn't ready.

I just wanted to get off the hard drugs. You know, I just wanted to quit. I was done being dope sick and like giving out all my money, right? Like I didn't want to stop. smoking weed and get drunk because that's what I like to go to the bar and I like to sit around smoke weed

and then I was in the cannabis industry so it's like I can't you know not get away from it I just wasn't ready yet and then you know it was good like I realized like I was gonna have to make a change and I was like you know I think I could do

this and then I made like the golden role in when you go to rehab I made the first mistake is he don't fall in love right and I met a I met a girl in rehab Then I ended up pretty much getting kicked out of the rehab with her. And then, yeah.

Did you end up marrying her or no? No. Okay, so this was just a temporary girlfriend. Temporary girlfriend. Yeah. And what happened to her? Like, did you guys move somewhere? Yeah, yeah.

We went down to West Palm Beach. So that's how you ended up in Florida? This is my second time of Florida. Okay. Yeah. This currently is your second time? Time of Florida. So that was your first time, like officially moving there?

Moving there, yeah. Do you go back into addiction after leaving with her? So she really wanted to stay clean, but I didn't want to stop smoke a weed. So like I was, so like at least for me, like I, it's all or nothing. Like if I'm going to smoke weed, like we might as well drink. If we're going to be out on Friday night drinking, we might as well do some blow, right? It's like, you know, peanut butter and jelly. You know, so like all my, my weed bone is connected to my alcohol bone.

My alcohol bone is connected to my heroin bone. Like, you know what I mean? sooner than later, I'm going to end up back on another hard substance. This is how my brain's worried. You know what I mean? This is how it's wired. And me and her, you know, me and her stay together for a little while. And then we break up because, you know, I'm just, I'm an unstable person at this point.

And then I go back to Columbus, Ohio. And at this point, like, my reputation has been, like, kind of ruin. Everyone's like, oh, he's a crackhead. He's a junkie. He used to, like, be up here and have this and do this. And now, like, you know, I'm back at, you know, a family. member's house, you know, pretty much living in a spare bedroom with absolutely nothing. And like, um, I was really defeated. And then like, uh, you know, I thought, I thought like the,

the, the, the heat was off of me or whatever, but like, I just like, I knew that they were still interested in me. And like the, the thing that my, my final straw, there was this police officer, right? And he, uh, they were serving a warrant on this dude. And they got into a shootout. and like the dude there serving the warrant on like shot and killed one of the police officers, right? And they were having like a ceremony downtown, you know, like how they bring like all the cop cars out and the swat, like a funeral service. Like a big funeral service and all the, you know what I mean? And I remember I was just walking downtown one day. And, you know, at this, and it was such a downfall because like, you know, I felt on the top of the world.

And, you know, I used to make decent money. And I'm literally taking the bus to go like work in a kitchen. downtown, right? But anyway, I'm going to work, and I'm like, what's, you know, is there a parade or something today? And I'm out there, and I'm right on a Marconi Boulevard where the, where the, like, police headquarters is. And they're having the procession just as I'm walking downtown, right? Like, oh, this is crazy because that helicopter is telling you about, like, it's flying, like, street level and they got, like, the, you know, the hearse and, like, the SWAT truck is

like a, like a police funeral procession. Like, oh, this is pretty interesting, you know what I mean? and I remember there was this, like, you could tell he was copy, like, he was in his suit and stuff. And I remember I was standing there and, like, I was watching him out of my peripherals. And he, like, looked at me, looked away and then, like, double looked at me, right? And I know I didn't, like, have a warrant or anything. Like, I wasn't wanted for anything. But it was, like, definitely a sign of recognition.

And, like, I'm still watching him out of my peripheral. And, like, he tapped the guy next to him, like, and they were, like, I knew they were talking about me. I'm like, why are these, why would they be talking about me? You know what I mean? And I knew it was a, I knew it was time to get out of there. So like I moved to, you know,

my, my, my fucking, I'm ruined, uh, all my friends and like my whole social group, like, you know,

where I used to have like some sort of little bit of status or whatever. They all think I'm worth it junkie. And I'm actually back on heroin, right? And I barely have any money and I just want to get the fuck out of Columbus, Ohio. So I literally go to the public library and, um,

I hop on Google, right? And I'm just like, uh, the easiest place. for an American to get a work visa. That's what you Googled? That's why I Googled.

I'm like, I'm just going to get out of the, I'm just going to get out of the country. That was drastic. That was drastic. And New Zealand popped up, right? And, um, 10 of young people out there traveling, like I like helping people.

I've actually helped a few people out with this. New Zealand has a reciprocal, like a visa that goes both ways with, the U.S. is called the work and holiday visa. And you could go live and work and travel in New Zealand for one year. and I was like, all right, shit. And like, I filled out the application on, like, the New Zealand immigration website. And I was, like, done in five minutes.

And then within, like, three weeks, they granted me this visa to go to New Zealand to work for a year. Like, I couldn't believe it. I thought it was a joke, right? But mind you, I'm still on heroin and I have no money. So I'm like, how the fuck am I going to pull this off, right? So I'm working at this little diner or whatever. And I end up, and, like, I found some old dust. the equipment in my best friend's house and I'm like yeah we're going to run one more round right you

know what I mean so I could go with like some money and we end up running around end up spending it all on dope and I bought a plane ticket like six months out right and my goal was like to save X amount of dollars to like fly to New Zealand with but I end up like between the dope addiction and then just being an idiot I only end up saving like 1800 bucks so like I'm about to literally move to the other side of the world with $1,800 to my name right and I'm still on dope so I was I literally show up at the airport to fly to the other side of the world. And I'm like, all right, I'm done taking heroin. So I literally get on this airplane to fly to New Zealand, withdrawing from heroin.

I was like, all right, this is it. I'm going to like change my life. You know what I mean? And you had no job lined up. You just have the visa, but no job. Just have the visa. Wow. Yeah, like I'd done some like research, like backpacking cultures real big, like in other parts of the world, like Europe and stuff.

So like I scout out like hostels and like ways I could find work, but I didn't have anything like set in stone. Why do you think in your mind you needed to go to a different country to escape the issues you were having? Why couldn't you find that here? It's the old geographical cure thing. You think, like, oh, I'll go somewhere else and, like, everything's going to be fine, right? But, like, you know, at the end of the day, I moved to different states and cities and continents and countries. But at the end of the day, I still bring myself with all my bullshit. You know what I mean?

So why ends up happening? Oh, that's a whole. So this, yeah, so I, uh, yeah. So I ended up in New Zealand. So the girl I met in rehab, we had got back together. Like we had broken up and like a month before we go, we get back together. I'm like, oh, why don't you come to New Zealand with me? Right.

So it's already a shit show on wheels. But I go and I'm there like 30 to 60 days like before she does, right? Because she has to like finish up some things. Then she's flying out. And like literally there was like no transition or no like easing into it. I went from being on heroin to just being like a horrible, pretty much alcoholic, like the moment I, because I showed up and like I didn't have no heroin. So I just started drinking real heavy. Right.

And like it's a shit show from the beginning, man. And like, I feel kind of bad about it. But like, you know, I go and I stay at this backpackers hostel. And like most of these younger people, you know what I mean? They're like real backpackers. They're like gap year students like, you know, from high school to university or they're like young professionals. taking a break from their career or something they're like trying to travel the world and like take pictures and like I'm just over there like some washed up fucking heroin addict who fucked up in the weed industry trying to like run away from my past and like this perceived law enforcement drama I got going on back home and like I don't like fit in too well and I fly into Auckland, New Zealand. It's like their biggest city. Right. And I stay pretty pretty kind of not quite, but it'd be like staying in like Manhattan like in like in. the city center, like real busy. And I'm staying at this hostel and I immediately like start

having problems. And what do I do? I find the people just like me. Right. They, they look different. They might speak different languages or have different accents. But I found the troublemakers like immediately, right? And like, at least with like opiates, like if I, I just want to go like hide in a dark room and be left the fuck alone. But like when I, when I start drinking real heavy, I want to be like out. and out and about, like, around people, like, causing trouble, all this crazy shit, right? And then, you know, I took in, like, this knife with me. And, like, knives are illegal. And, like, you know, you hear about, like, England and London.

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They have knife control. Like a certain size. Like a certain size. Can't be a switch. Can't. So, like, I have this knife and then, like, within like two weeks, like, I'm out there, like, almost getting into knife fights with fucking homeless people from Auckland, New Zealand. You know what I mean?

I acquired this tiny little piece of shit van and I ended up getting a DUI in it. You know what I mean? So like I'm in a different country already like involved in their criminal justice system, right? And it's a trip. Like I had this van, right? And I was like speeding down the highway and their cop cars are different than us, right? And like everything's on the off side of the road. Even the steering wheel is on the opposite side.

and like there's this Subaru in front of me like this blue Subaru in front of me going like really slow like man what the fuck so I like speed around this Subaru it was a cop car because like I'm used to like Crown Vix and Explorers and stuff so they pull me over and like I ended up going to court in New Zealand for a DUI because of my drinking and you know that's a whole other

like you know the judges over there we're like uh like George Washington wigs like in England like oh yeah save in England right and what's really crazy is like you know how you go to a poach the bench there's like these little flappy doors like you know waist high and anytime you go into that section like in front of the judge you have to bow and then as you turn around and leave you have to turn around and bow again i think it's like that's like that in Canada too they they wear like those weird outfits or whatever yeah the weird court outfits yeah wow and um you know and then like i'm in this hostel and like uh i remember i just i'm surprised i don't get so much more trouble and like the drinking just kept bringing me problems like i I was bringing problems and like this dude tried to stab me with like a broken mug or whatever. And like we had gotten into an argument and he like pushed me and I just kind of like pushed

them back and he like disappeared right. And I'm at like the desk of the hostel trying to work this thing out with this dude. And he was drunk and he comes like running up this stairway with this like broken cup. He's like a Brazilian dude and he's like swinging it at me. Right. And like I run and like you know how the phone booth dividers are like made a glass or whatever. So I'm trying to get away from this guy And I run through like three different layers of these like phone

These glass phone booth protectors and it shatters everywhere And long story short like we end up in a wrestling match and he like like cut like you know the hoodie I was wearing But he didn't get me and I like get the upper hand on him and like I said I'm not like an MMA fighter I'm not I'm not a tough guy or whatever but I ended up like making him unconscious Long story short so now I'm like dude I'm in like a different country and like this guy is now unconscious from like me defending my myself and like the cops show up but lucky enough um it was self-defense and it was all on camera but anyway then girl girl shows up you know like a month and a half later and like you know i'm drunk and belligered every day it doesn't last that long right so i literally break up

with this girl in a different country and then um i'm like all right well i got to figure this out so i literally uh i hitchhike new zealand's made up of two islands the the north and the south Island and we were a knuckling so I ended up hitchhiking all the way down to the South Island with the intention of finding work. And there was a point where I showed up in this town and I had zero dollars. I had no job and I had no place to live. And I just like had the the fucking pack on my back. You know what I mean? And like it just kept getting down and down. I ended up wiggling out of it. I got like a job on a farm. And I got one paycheck. And then I ended up getting steady in employment. And then

when I'm over there during all this, my dad dies. Right? So like, I'm in a random country and I can't get home, so I don't make it home for my dad's funeral. You know, this girl I've been dating for a long time and, you know, I had nothing bad to say about it. I really liked her. I'm broken up with her, like, you know, and all the, everything I tried to build, you know, with the cannabis and, like, businesses and stuff, I fucked it all up and I'm, like, on the other side of world and, like, I'm in a really, really low place.

You know what I mean? And, you know, I find a steady job. And then I was like, well, there's really no reason to go home now. You know, and this is like, this is where I kind of start growing, but I don't. Right? This is when I start enjoying more. Like trying to get more out of the experience of being overseas. And I ended up getting like a little kitchen job.

And I stayed there for like six months and saved up money. And like my year was coming to the end of the visa, right? Like the end of the visa was the year was coming up. But, you know, I. I was still drinking real heavy, but I wasn't being as destructive. And I was like, well, I'm not going home. And I ended up saving a few dollars, like $12,000, nothing too crazy. And I was like, all right, well, I'm going to go to Asia.

All right. I'm going to go to this backpacker trail. And then Australia has a visa program just like New Zealand, where you could apply for it. And you could live and work in Australia up to a year. And if you do regional work, you could stay for two years. So I was like, I'm going to go to Asia. I'm going to spend on my money. money and when I have like a thousand dollars left I'll then show up to Australia and then like remake the money and then figure it out right and then um things started to get things started to get better like still drinking a lot still being belligerent some of the time but like I really started having like a big worldview like when I went to Asia like I showed up in Thailand right and then I'm supposed to time Thailand and I ended up getting a job in living in in Vietnam oh wow you know and like at this point like in New Zealand's

started knocked down a lot of those barriers of like what we're taught to believe about the world and like our view of our position in it. You know what I mean? You know how we're always like, oh, this is the greatest country on earth. And there's a lot of other countries I think they're the greatest country on earth. You know, there's a lot of nice places. I remember I was in New Zealand, right? And I was in a hostel and these two German girls came in and they were like Altian.

It was like winter then. And I'm like, oh, were you guys coming back looking Altan? It's the middle of winter. And they're like, oh, we're coming back from Vietnam. Yeah? I'm like, you were weird? You know what I mean? Oh my God.

It's like such a dangerous. Because like I'm thinking of, you know, like our history with. The Vietnam War. And they're just like, yeah, yeah, no, you're an idiot. Like it's a really safe and awesome cheap country to go to. And I finally realized like I needed something to do because I was in Asia. I made my way through like Thailand and Cambodia. And I was like just partying real hard.

And like, you know, which is fun for like the first few weeks. But I was like, I really need to, I really need to do something. I need a purpose to wake up for in the morning. You know, I'm sleeping until noon. I'm staying up all night. The drugs and drinking are so cheap there that, you know what I mean? It's really hard to spend all your money. So I was like, I'm going to become a scuba diver instructor.

Right? And I found this place. They have, I had scuba dive once before in Florida. And they had this thing called a zero to hero program where they could take you from like your open water certification all the way to like a dive instructor. Right. And it was like an internship. So like if I worked there and stayed there,

they would get me up to instructor and then offered me employment after. And you're sober at this point? No, no, still drinking real heavy. Dude, I got so lucky, like, and I feel bad like disrespecting other people's country. But like it's just so lax over there. Like I, once again,

I didn't get pulled over. I got stopped by the police in Vietnam. And like I had a motorbike, like a 125cc, whatever. And like I could barely like keep it up, let alone ride it. And the police stopped me. You know what I mean? And you just hate them 20 bucks and they'll go away type thing.

Was there a lot of addiction issues out there, like fellow addicts? Compare like the addiction in America that you were surrounding yourself with to over there in the different countries. So I did meet a few people just like me, right? But a lot of it out there is alcohol. Like people just go to party, party, party. And it's like, oh, it's part of the experience. You're supposed to go and like drink heavy. every day, all day, and act stupid.

And like, that sounds like what we're supposed to do. And, like, that's our definition of fun. But if you really look at it, like, is it? You know what I mean? Yeah. So what happens next? Do you get certified and you start working full time out there? Yeah.

And how long do you stay out there? Yeah. I was in Vietnam about six months, six months. And, like, I got the whole immersion experience. Like, you know, I had the job. I went and ran an apartment. You know what I mean? I got a little motorcycle, had a little job.

So, like, I really, you know, I went and lived in an area away from the toilet. forests. So like it was a it was real interesting, you know, um, super, super, it's super cheap too. Like, you know, I had a little bit of savings, but like my daily budget was like 10 bucks. And you could like get your, your 60 cent pack of cigarettes, your break, you know what I mean, all for 10 bucks, your breakfast, your lunch,

your dinner, and a few beers. So like, I was just kind of living on that high life. But, um, and you know what's funny is like, especially now like what's going on in the news like, uh, you know, I was working illegally, right? And then like, you know, in the news now, like people are talking about undocumented immigrants. Like I've seen it from the other side of the spectrum as well, you know. Were they hard on immigrants over there? No, not at all. Not at all.

And I mean, like, you got to think I would work 10 hour days to make like 30 bucks. So I was like making actual wages. And then like there's ways around it. Like we do something called like a visa run. So like you go on a tourist visa, you know. And if you had a 90 day tourist visa, when that 90th day would come up, you would literally just like, you could take a bus to the Cambodian border, literally get off. the bus, get on another bus, and just crossing, like, get another 90-day visa. You know what I mean? How do you end up back in the U.S.? So I was in, I ended up going Australia for two years.

Oh, you did the full two years in Australia. That must have been an experience. Yeah, it was really cool. Really cool. And like, um. We got a lot of Australian listeners on the podcast. All do we? Yeah, we have a, there are, there are second country, second biggest country of listeners. Is there? It's U.S., Australia, Canada, and then so on. I love Australia. Ozzy's are cool, man.

Ozzy's are super cool. I got a hell of experience. So I end up in a city called Perth. It's like way on the West Coast, right? And there's supposed to be like a lot of mining jobs I kept being told about. And I show up in like, I don't know if it was like a bad season or the economy's, kind of couldn't find a job. So I end up like hitchhiking all the way across like the southern continent of Australia.

and then there's this place called the Nalibor Plains. It's like the longest, straightest road on earth or whatever. And I ended up find this guy who's dog, his boats. And I end up in Melbourne. And I was in Melbourne's a big city. I compared to like Chicago. Maybe, I mean, like different flavor, but like same, same kind of, I guess. And I actually ended up finding a junkie.

I actually ended up getting strung out in Melbourne, Australia, temporarily. Like I was running out of money and I found a job in a cafe just like washing cups. and there was like this waiter and like, you know, we started talking or whatever and he's like, oh yeah, yeah, you know, me and my family is taking travelers. He's like, oh, you come like stay on my couch if you want to. Like, all right, so we're going to stay on his couch.

He ended up being like a junkie. So me and this dude ended up like, you know, just fucking sitting around getting high for like three years. But then I realized like I was getting, like it was going to get bad again. So like I left. I ended up going to this place called Darwin,

which is like in the northern territory. And then like part of this thing to like extend your visa you have to do like regional work. So like a place where Ozzy's won't, they have like a labor shortage. So I went to this place called the Northern Territory. And to put the Northern Territory in the perspective, it's like four or five Texases with the population

of like 250,000 people. So it's like super desolate. And they have their like indigenous out there, like the indigenous Australians. So like, you know, I was up there and like, I got involved in their culture. But the alcohol kept mess with me, right? So like, I was at a job for like six months.

But like I just alcohol, like I was just sloping. and I ended up getting fired from a job because of my drinking, like I was drinking on the job. And then ultimately what got me fired was like there was this big, like I worked on a, am I rambling? No, you're good. No, I'm I good.

Bring me in if you got to bring me in. No, you're good, yeah. So like I was working at this place called Mataranka, right? In middle of fucking nowhere, bro. And it has these thermal pool springs. That's why people come there. And the guy that I worked for, he owned like a gas station, a pub, in like a homestead where like people would camp

and bring their campers if they're traveling like across the outback. And I was like this dude's like gopher or whatever. So like you know, I'd be like supplying his stores and be cleaning up all his properties. And like during the busy season he would have a live band like play every night

for all the campers like in this little stage area. And then like this long story short, me and like the lead singer of the band end up getting into it and things got like physical. so they ended up fire me they're like you got to go they're like we really appreciate you

like you've done a lot of good work around here but pretty much told me my drink is out of control and like good luck right and then I ended up going to the east coast for the Australian listeners I ended up in this small town called Port Douglas and it's just north Kansas in far north Queensland

and it's actually the port where Steve Irwin left out of the boat when he got barred by the thing right oh that was there where he died so the port he left out of of, that's where it happened. And mind you now, I'm a scuba diamond shark. So my main goal for all of this was like, all right, so I'm going to go to the EI,

like I'm going to do my commitment for the visa and I'm going to go work on the Great Barrier Reef, right? And I ended up getting a job like doing day trips out to the Great Barrier Reef, like just like leading tourists around. And I ended up finagling my way onto like this to this research boat, right? And there's these starfish called the Great Crown. of Thorne Starfish. There are these massive big blue starfish and they eat coral. They like suck the polyps out of it. Right.

And they're supposed to be there, but they're breaking out in like crazy amount of numbers. And like Queensland is like the biggest sugar cane producer in the world and like a lot of nutrients run off to the reef. A lot of reasons why the reef's not doing too well. But the government literally paid like a few companies to go out and eradicate these. So like we would go out on a boat for like two weeks at a time. And then we would literally just dive down and try to find a. all these starfish. And then if we found an outbreak, we'd literally just like, we had these, like, tanks with, like, a big prod. And we would just, like, inject them with pretty much

vinegar, right? But this was starting to get really good for me, right? Because every time we go out to sea, I couldn't drink. I couldn't even smoke cigarettes. So, like, it started really, like, you know what I mean? I started balancing it out quite a bit more. And, like, I felt like I was getting it under control a little bit. But deep down, I really wasn't. You know what me. So like I learned a lot, met a lot of really cool people. And mind you, I've told you my backstory now. So like I almost feel like I'm just a wolf and sheep's clothing. Right. If these people really knew, they just know me as like, I'm this American that was traveling and I just show up on their boat and like I'm a good worker. If only they, they have no idea

what I'm actually coming from. You know what I mean? Because I don't like tell people, you know, like you always be a junkie and I fuck my whole life up. And I'm actually outrunning some problems back where I'm from, you know what I mean? You're like an international junkie. I'm like, you know, please don't put that. on my fucking, don't put that on my thumbbell. Please don't do that.

You know, it's interesting how ambitious you were for being an addict. Yeah. Like, you had goals. Yeah, always have. I never really met too many former addicts that did have a lot of goals.

They were kind of just like stagnant not really knowing what they wanted to do. Yeah. I just, man, I've always felt like a big pull out into the world. Like I know there's something out there. You know what I mean? Like I could feel it.

I just don't know what it is. and I don't know But anyway So these people wanted to And it's crazy because like Especially what's going on I'm not making this political or whatever But like what's going on now

With like the immigration crackdown Right So this employer I was working for They wanted to I was on the temporary work visa It was come and expired They there's a visa sponsorship For residency

And he was willing to go through the process Where he would sponsor me to work for him and after X amount of years, I would be like a permanent resident in Australia, right? I was like, this is it, man. Like, I never have to go back to Columbus, Ohio. Never have to be around those people again. You know what I mean? Like, this is like my fighting chance.

Granted, like, my drink is still, like, not doing too well, but I'm like, this is my out. You know what I mean? I never have to go back. I made it. I made it out. Because a lot of people in Ohio are stuck. A lot of people everywhere are stuck. You know?

And then around that same time, there was a prime minister that was. was getting voted into office. His name was Scott Morrison. And he literally was running with the undertones of make Australia great again. Right? And this was, you know, before Trump got in office this time. And he got elected. And he tightened up the same thing that's going on here.

He, like, made the process for getting these more permanent visas harder. So, like, I fucked up. And then if I didn't leave, I was going to be there illegally. So they kicked you out. They didn't kick me out. I left, I left before my visa expired. I contemplated staying illegally, but it's an island. So, like, if you're there illegally, you might be able to, like, last a while.

But if I ever had to, like, come back to the United States, for the moment I went to an airport to fly internationally, like, I'd be smoked. So, like, what's the point of building a whole life and then, like, you know, being kicked out? Anyway, I'm like, I lick my wounds and I fly back to Columbus, Ohio. And I'm not even back. It's my first time back in the United States in like three and a half, almost four years. And the very first night I get back,

I overdose on fentanyl. Yeah. Yeah. Because the game's changed a bit. Because like I've been out, like, you know, the dope, the real heroin has still been around.

Like the Mexican black tar and the, and like the China white. Like, it was still heroin heroin. So like the, and like I would check the U.S. media. And like I would see like all this fentanyl stuff

making a way around it. And like, I remember like fentanyl from like the patches are like in hospital. But like this is like a whole new thing. So like I show back in literally first night. What was it that attracted to do it? Was it like wrong place, wrong time?

Like someone gave it to you or do you just like saw it? Like what in you? I had a reservation. I was like I couldn't like it was crazy. I didn't want to leave Australia in like this little life. But I couldn't like wait to get back to do some opiates. Just like it's that disease of addiction. You know what I mean?

And I just knew it. Like the whole like literally. the moment I had to leave, like, I knew I had to leave and, like, I bought ticket a few weeks out. Like, from that countdown, I was like, I can't wait to get back to Columbus and do some fucking dope. And, like, oh, it makes it even worse. I was driving a vehicle, right? And, like, dude slid me some and, like, I snorted it. You know what I mean?

And, like, I'm used to doing, like, you know, Coke and fucking even, like, you know, pain pill lines, not knowing, like, you know, just a little bit of the shit could really do it. And, like, you know, I do a line of the fent and all. And, like, I'm driving my buddies. I feel so bad too. I was driving his brand new Buick. And I'm like, huh. And then it's like when I got punched back in Juvie.

And I came to it like on a plane like, I come to it. I'm back in the back of an ambulance. You know what I mean? I'd like wrecked this car into a ditch. And they had to like bring me back to life, man. And then, and then that started a whole new thing as well.

Right. So now I'm back in Columbus. And I got like all these experiences. And like I know what my potential is. I know what I could do. and I'm back in Columbus, fucking Ohio, doing gutters, all strung out on dope. And, like, I'm coming into the winter. So, like, everything's, like, gray and depressed and, like, it's the season of the stick.

So there's, like, no leaves on the fucking trees. And then, like, everyone I had left for those four years, like, they're all worse off because now they're on the Fed and all. Like, you know, a lot of people I used to respect and grow up, they're, like, real street zombies now. Because, like, you know, the progression, you leave for a gap. and then like, you know, a lot of the guys and like they tell you this when you're younger, right? Like back when they were trying to intervene when I was going to juvie, like, oh, you need to stop

hanging out with them friends, you guys are going to end up like X, Y, and Z, right? And you're just always like, oh, yeah, not us. Like, you know, we're young. And then, like, here I am 31, 30, 31. And like, it all came true. You know what I mean? Everyone dead of an overdose or like, you know,

a car accident or violence around drugs, lengthy prison sentences or just dereliction. You know what I mean? And I just, I couldn't believe it. And, you know, then I ended up back on the fucking fentanyl. And then, you know, I meet back with my old, I meet back with my, and I'm just like super fucking defeated, right? And I was like, I'm not doing this. So I ended up reaching out to this boating company in the Caribbean to work on a boat.

So thankfully I'm in Columbus a month and I escape back out You know and once again like you remember how I got on the plane in the New Zealand Withdrawing now I'm like leaving to go join a ship Withdrawling in the Caribbean right and I I but I'm not as bad off as I had been and I end up shaking the cobwebs out I'm working on this boat for two months and there's this This girl that's where so like it's called a live aboard So like it's a not fancy as a yacht but it's like a charter like let's say you want to go diving for a week week, right? You can book a charter on this boat and all we do is like go around a few different

islands throughout the Caribbean and we dive, dive, dive, dive, dive all day, every day. And I would just like lead people out to show them shit, you know what I mean? And then they hired a purser, a purser's like a handles the money, passports, money like that position on, but like secretary almost. And me and her-USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Here's a little tune to help you remember. Same drive, different day. Don't you wish you were getting away? Pack your beds and come on through.

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along with sun-fated sweatshirts, hats, and versatile essentials. Like a fine wine, AG denim is designed to evolve beautifully over time, growing richer with everywhere. AG's summer 2026 collection is available now at AGgreens.com. Use code summer 15 for 15% off, even if you've shopped with us before. For not dating, we only known each other like two weeks, and I get her pregnant. Oh, wow.

And I get her pregnant. And we're like, well, this sucks. We didn't say anything, but she like dives sometimes. So eventually she just starts saying something because, you know, diving and being on pressure could affect the baby. And, you know, so we'd work like eight weeks. weeks on and then like we took like three weeks off and I would go to Puerto Rico because like we would get paid in cash right we'd have like I mean not like bricks of hundreds but you know like if a few thousand dollars like 20s and 10 and shit so I would fly to Puerto Rico and put it in a bank that's like connected to the US and like me and her we're like we're trying to figure it out like what are we going to do you know what I mean and uh as we're talking about this like how we're going to tell the company maybe I still work get some money she goes back home they fire us both and like leave us kind of borderline stranded in Puerto Rico. Why did they fire you guys because of your relationship? Yeah, because the relationship.

They didn't say it. But inferred it. Inferred it. And are you sober at this point? Did the going and working there get you sober? Off the hard drugs. Okay. Still on the liquor.

Still on the liquor. Yeah. We'd only have one day off a week to drink and then I would drink. And then like it started sliding back in because like I was like, all right, this is a good chance to like clean up. Just drink once a week. And that worked for a few weeks. Then like I would bring a bottle back. And then at the end of the night, like I would, you know what I mean?

And then, so I have this girl who I've only known for a few weeks, pregnant with my kid, and we're stranded in Puerto Rico. And I might have like $1,000 left to my name. You know what I mean? And she's from New Jersey and I'm from, you know, Columbus. I'm like, all right, here's what we'll do. You go back to Jersey. I'll go back to Columbus.

We'll try to get some money together and then we'll figure it out. All right. So I go back to Columbus. I'm like, I'm going to stay off the dope. I'm going to stay off the dope. I'm going to stay off the dope. First night back in Columbus, again,

I overdosed for on fentanyl. You know what I mean? And I'm like, shit, shit. So, you know, I'm real messed up. And then, so at this point, I hadn't seen my mom in quite some time, quite a few years since, right after I escaped that placement back in Columbus.

I haven't really seen her that much up into this point. But, like, I started talking to overseas, like we would, like, you know, talk online and stuff. And I reach out to her and, I'm like, can I come, stay with you. And this is the first time I've like actually lived with a parent since I was probably like 14, 15 years old. So I show back to Columbus with my tails between my legs. And I keep telling myself like the addict mine is crazy because like I overdosed on the fentanyl. But that time like it

didn't end up in ambulance just ended up like someone needed an arcane me. And I told him like the addict mine, I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm going to stop before I, before I've been doing it long enough until I start going and withdrawal, right? So like I would be like, yeah, tomorrow I'm going to stop and then tomorrow will come. Tomorrow I'm going to stop before like I start having a withdrawal tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. And then like next thing you know, I've just been on it every day for like

three months. Then eventually just throwing the towel. You're like, fuck it, we're just going to ride this one out, right? And I fucking get back in with the guy I used to grow weed with and then I end up back in Detroit. Right? So here we are, Detroit 2.0. Like, thinking that, what's the definite, like,

Like someone said one time, like, you know, the old thing, like definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expect different results. The real definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over, knowing the results and still doing it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I'm like, yeah, this is going to fix it all again, you know? And I started getting more into like the trafficking aspect of it. Like we were growing a bit up in Detroit. But then like I would do the actually like driving from Detroit to Columbus.

thing. You know what I mean? So I was taking like some real fucking risks. Um, doing it. And once again, I got to the point where like my, uh, like how much I was making was more than the amount I was spending on dope. Right. And then, um, so I would go to New Jersey every few months and like I'd leave her with some money. You know, I felt like good about myself. You know what I mean? Um, but really, I was just being a shit bag. And then one, one time I went out there. And, like, I was, like, able to, like, take, like, some box in or, like, some medication to, like, help me not be sick when I'd be visiting her for a few days. But I started getting worse and worse, worse. And I go out there and, um, after my daughter's born and, like, I'm still actively getting high.

And, like, I'm laying on her couch and, like, I'm holding my daughter. And I, like, I'm nodding out from the dope. And she sees it. And she, like, calls me out on it as, as someone rightfully should. Right. And then she basically told me to fuck off. And then I didn't see her or my daughter for like two years. And that was like the apple on the cake, right?

I never heard that one before. The apple on the cake. I'm nervous, Ian. I'm trying to vest here. No, you're killing it, man. That was the fucking cherry on the fire. Apple on the cake. Apple on the cake.

I don't know who puts apple. Actually, there probably are apple cakes, right? Yeah. Like little bits of apple and the cake. Yeah, yeah. It's probably pretty good. If not, we could start it, man. Or you'd say apple on the pie.

Apple and the pie, right. All right. So two years goes by. I'm not seeing your kid. So, and then I go back to Columbus and then, like, we're doing pretty good. And then, like, you know, I was a little late to the party this time. But then, like, we started getting involved in, like, the packs. You know, everyone knows about the packs now, right?

So, like, me, so, like, when I was gone all those years, like, that guy I originally started out growing the cannabis with, he stayed in it. He kept progressing. And, like, he kept building and building and building. So, like, you know, he had, like, met people out in California. So, like, we were going out to California and, like, doing the whole L.A., go up to the Bay thing, and, you know, like, sending that shit back. And then, like, oh, the fucking whole game change. And it's crazy because I remember, like, back from the first time, he put me in a house back in, you know, right after I got kicked out of the National Guard. And we thought we were bawling because we were getting, you know, $4,000 a pound off of one, 1,000 watt.

And now there's, like, you know, all this crazy shit, like the cartridges, and the distillates. And the deltas and everything. And the deltas and shit, it was like, but what's really crazy is we came the fuck back. When I came the fuck back, like, he was telling me weed prices. Like, you know, now there's like outdoors and depths and exotics. And like there's all these like tears of fucking weed, you know what I mean?

And like he was telling me the prices on these fucking, like, you know what I mean? Like outdoor, you get a pound of decent outdoor weed without seeds from California for like $1,800. So what really happened, especially for indoor smaller growers, like, unless you were growing, the best, like you weren't even making a fucking profit. I mean, not a price. I mean, it wasn't even worth doing it. You know what I mean? Like how low prices would go. Like, back in the day, if you grew

a pound of weed that did not have seeds, like, you could fuck around somehow make $4,000 out of that pound. And now, like, you know, you have to grow the best of the best to even get close to that number. Because there's so much competition. Because there's so much competition. And, you know, and then we ended up, so me and this part, so

really bad on it, and then I end up and what's crazy is, well, you try to go legit, right, with this, with this weed shit. What I found the problem is, is like, when you find people to buy it, a lot of times, like, people that have like 20, 30, 50, 60, 70,000 dollars laying around in cash, usually, not all the time, but sometimes they're, like, doing something else besides the cannabis to, like, make that much money. So, like, I started getting involved in this dude and he was, like, involved in the crystal meth. Like, he, ice. He was selling ice, but he also wanted to do cannabis. So, like, I was coming around him.

and I'd never done the crystal meth before, right? And then, like, you know, my daughter, you know, my daughter's mother doesn't want nothing to do with me. I'm back in fucking Columbus, Ohio, again, bro, in my 30s. You know what I mean? Like, fuck, I mean, I've told you everything before. And somehow I ended up, like, starting smoking meth. But, I mean, at that point, like, if you're already doing Fet and all,

like, what's... What do you got to lose? What do you got to lose? Putting the apple on the pie, you know what I mean? And I'd always somehow managed to like keep it together on opiates, ish. You know what I mean? But the moment I started doing ice, that's like when the real collapse started happening. And it was actually like there was like a plateau like I started doing it.

And like I was actually like ultra productive. Right. Like damn, I'm getting a lot done here. And I'm like super good at it. And then eventually eventually like you come around that peak and then you start crashing. You know what I mean? And like, at that point, like, I was in full on criminality mode. So, like, besides, like, you know, a little bit of meth and then, like, doing the packs and trying to cultivate, like, I was trying to, like, get in the fraud and shit.

So, like, I would set up, like, this lab, like, laboratory, like, have a few, like, laptops. This is notebooks. And, like, I would, like, I'd stay up all night, like, getting shit done. And, like, I would be able to do it. And then, like, before too long, like, I was supposed to do all this work. And it's 6 a.m. and I'm just, I've beat off like seven times, and I'm like looking up dolphin migratory patterns

in the Pacific Ocean. I've done nothing for eight hours, and it just goes by like that. And then it really started crashing. And then, like, me and, buddy, we were going out to Oklahoma because, like, they opened up, like, the floodgates on some shit out in Oklahoma.

And me and him ended up having a fallout. And long story short, we're not friends anymore. Like, he accused me of stealing something, didn't steal anything. I've been working with this guy for over a decade. Took it really insulted of. He threatened to shoot my sister's house up. Like some real crazy shit, right?

I was like, I've known you this long, and you're going to like, that's how we're going to end it. So now I don't have any of the cannabis money coming in, and I'm like a full-on fentanyl ice junkie, right? And then I start crashing, and then I don't have a lot of money. And then it's so crazy how, like, you always look at like on TV, like superstar or like movie actors or athletes. You're like, damn, man,

a contract for like millions of dollars how are they like you know what fucked up broke don't have anything like i i i get it why and by no means was i anywhere close to their level but like i know what it's like have like a have everything you need you know what i mean and then just it slowly just starts going away and before you know what like i didn't have the place where i lived anymore you know what i mean we've got a mom who moved somewhere else lost that place so now i'm like staying in someone's house that has kids like in the spare bedroom um then before you know it like i'm lose my car because I get pulled over. And then before you know it, like all my money just slowly starts chinking away.

And then they don't want me living there anymore. And I remember I woke up. I didn't wake up because I was smoking ice right. But I come to it one morning and I realize and it's just so crazy how it happened that I don't have a car. I don't have any money. I don't have any way to make any money. And I have nowhere to go sleep tonight. And like just like that, I was like, oh, I'm like officially a homeless drug addict.

you know what I mean and anyone from Columbus like you know every side of town has like the drugier part town there's like a lot of homeless and drug activity and Columbus is like the west side they call it the hilltop is the neighborhood and then you know I literally

just found myself wandering around homeless and it just got real bad and then like the wintertime happened and I was literally living as like a homeless junkie on the streets of West Columbus Ohio and coming from everything like I've told you. And you always like see those people driving by the street.

Like damn man, how's he get there? Like does he have a story? Was he just born like into the like, you know, in the like I've realized everyone has a story that's out there. And some may vary. Like if you would have seen me at my worst, like, you know, I started like, you know, my beers started growing up, my hair growing out.

Like my clothes were looking all shitty. I would have that like real feral look in my eyes. You know what I mean? And like if you would have looked at me then, you would have had known idea that like I was working on. a research boat on the Great Barrier Reef, Australia, or that guy used to have a small business and, you know, run all this. And it was just real, it's real demoralizing.

You know what I mean? And, like, I don't even really like talking about it. And this went on for quite a few months, and it was really fucking cold, you know? And, like, I found this abandoned, um, ford, I don't know, uh... Dealership? Taurus.

An old, like, 90s Ford Taurus that had been abandoned. in like this parking lot and no one was coming back for it. So I was like, this is where I live now. So I was like literally just living out of like this abandoned Ford Taurus. Wow. And, you know, it gotten really bad.

Am I like, oh shit moment? I need to change. So like I had acquired like some tide, like tide. You know, the shit you wash your clothes with. Like, you know, the big jugs, they have a bit of money, right? And I had two of them. I mean, you probably guess how I got them.

But I had two of them and I was trying to sell them. Right. And it was night. It was snowing. I was at this like gas stage corner store. This Mexican lady had pulled up. She had two kids in the back. And she was getting back in her car. And she was like halfway in her car, halfway in the door. And like I'm like in her face like forcibly trying to sell her this fucking laundry detergent. You know what I mean? And, um, and I just remember like I caught a glimpse of myself in the reflection in the window. And like I just saw my face in the window. And then like I saw like the feet. in her eyes and I look in the back seat and I see like her two children in their like I'm not like you know I'm not technically like robbing her by any means but like I'm so forcibly trying to get her to buy this fucking laundry soap off me just so I could get high that um and I and I saw my I saw it happening in like real time in the reflection and it just tripped me out like I had these crazy bags under my eyes and I just look feral and that's crazy coming from what I was just what I came from and then um I knew it's good but something that's easier said than done to get help, right? Especially when you're getting high just to not get sick. You know what I mean? Especially on the open. It's like you don't even get high anymore. You're literally just trying to make 20 to 50 more dollars just so you won't be extremely dope sick. And that is your day every single day. And you're like tomorrow, I'm going to do something about it. But then tomorrow comes, you're so busy trying to make that 20 to 50 bucks that by the time the end of the night comes and

you finally get that bag and you finally stop from being sick, you're like, okay, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. And the time just keeps on going, man. And finally a big winter storm came. And I used to go to this like, it's called Jordan's Crossing. It's off like Hague Avenue. Anyone from Columbus knows where it's at. But he gets the guy, his son was Jordan. And he had overdosed like this older guy.

And like he like gives space eaters and blankets and food and it's a food pantry. And they used to give out hot lunches every day. So I used to go over there. And every Wednesday that a Mount Carmel like outreach hospital bus that came, like people like come check on people who give bandages or whatever. And there's this lady named Karen. And Karen would always fucking. And, you know, she'd be like, I'll get you in the treatment. I could get you in the treatment.

And I was like, no, no, no, can I borrow $20? She's like, no. And, like, I'd always like, you know what I mean? And then one day I was just, like, after that incident, I was like, Karen, can you, like, get me into some treatment? You know what I mean? And I just, I was completely defeated. And, you know, she helped me give me treatment. And it took a few days.

And you know what's crazy is, she's like, all right, well, we're getting this place down the street here. I'm like, you need me as far away from this fucking shithole of the city. And it's crazy because, like, I love. love Columbus, it is a good town. Like there's good parts of it. Like any city, right? And Ohio's one of those places like I could talk shit about it and other Ohioans could talk shit about it. But the moment like an outsider talk shit about it, then we're like, hey, hey, don't talk about our state like that. I feel like that's everywhere. That's everywhere.

And she's like, I get you, you know, here on this side of town, I'm like, you need to get me as far away from Columbus as you can. And they got me in this place near, called Toledo, Toledo, Ohio. It's Northwest Corner. Yeah, I've heard of Toledo. Yeah, a little old Toledo. And you know what's crazy in is like I've been going to these, this trap house ran by, let's say, a group, an organization, or a group of people, a group of these guys. And they had like two or three in the neighborhood that ran 24-7, Christmas, New Year's, everything. And like, I had decent credit with them, right? But I never used it because, like, if I had the cash, and I was like, all right, I'm going to go, I'm going to

rehab the day. I'm going to go ask for something on credit, and then I'm just going to dip out, right? And God damn, I go and I knock on the door for the first time in a very long time, no one has any dope. And I thought that was one of my harassing Raw, but you know, you took it as a sign? I took it as a sign. And, you know, I ended up, they ended up come pick me up,

and it took me into Toledo, Ohio, and I've been clean ever since. What year was that? Did you get clean? Three years ago. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you, thank you. I just celebrated three years.

Do you think going back to Ohio was always your downfall? Yes and no. It's a big piece. Because people get clean in the hometown where they've done dope all the time. Yeah. I just feel like if you went somewhere different when you came back to the United States, I might have had it.

You might have saved some years of your life. No. You think you needed that. I just wasn't done yet. And I fully think in recovery like you're not done until you're done. And in some cases that's death. In some cases, that's death. Jails institutions are death.

Or seeing the other side like you've been able to. So what's your life like now since getting clean? What do you do now? Shoot, man. And what happened to your daughter's mother? Yeah, yeah. So went up in Toledo. Toledo's a, so you heard the term Rust Belt.

Yeah, yeah. Right? It's a Rust Belt state, right? Ohio's a Rust Belt state. Toledo's the true embodiment of like a Rustown city, smaller town. Small city, somewhat bigger town. And I end up going to treatment, end up going to like a Medicaid ran place. So by no means it wasn't famous.

fancy at all. A lot of people were in there like ducking sentences, you know what I mean? Because like the criminal justice system is so much more different than it was like when I was a juvenile and even in my early tends. Like now they got like treatment in lieu. So like drug courts. Drug courts and stuff. So you get a lot of guys just

ducking out of there. But I went, I just took it super serious. I was like this is the last house on the block and like whatever they need to do. And it was really weird. I started having like a spiritual experience. Like I was like, and especially because I was homeless. But I remember I took that first shower.

And I was like, this is great. Man, like my hands were all like black and had like these, like if you don't wash and take showers and you're constantly easing your hands,

your hands get these crazy calluses. I don't know how to explain like what. I'm sure your fingernails. Yeah, man. And like I remember like washing myself off and like they didn't have the best food but they had some food. And I was like,

this is great, man. And I just started taking it really serious, man. And I went, I was just going to go for their 30 day program. I was like, all right, well, I'll go back home to Columbus. This one, like figure something out.

Maybe I'll, you know what I mean? And then they're like, so we have like a transitional housing you could go to. I'm like, no, I'm going to go to Columbus or whatever. And they're like,

you can make our decisions, but I think you shouldn't and stay here. So I went to the residential housing. And I started taking it real serious. And I got involved in the 12 step program. And I won't say you're mentioning it. Probably figured out if you listen to me long enough. And like I always tell people,

there's like, there's different ways of recovering. You know what I mean? Like, you know, church, sports, family. Like, I found my way through a 12-step program. And I just immediately started diving deep into that. And, like, the residential, I had to go, like, do some groups through their, like, facility, like, you know, a few times a week. And then I just started taking it real serious.

And it was crazy, right? So I was able to get a job. And I had a warrant, like a misdemeanor warrant, nothing crazy. I didn't have an ID, didn't have a social security card. I had zero fucking dollars, right? And I'm in this place like trying to get my life back together my driver's license suspended

has been suspended since like I got kicked out of the National Guard having to have a driver's license but you know, I started writing on goals. You know what I mean? Like, you know, what's the saying? You know how you eat an elephant? One bite at a time, starting with its ass.

You know what I mean? I just made that last part up. That was a good addition. But, you know, I started taking it down and, you know, I started making money. I started making breakfast sandwiches and like selling them around the transitional house before everyone went to group, like five bucks.

You know what I mean? So I started to stack a little bit of money with that and got the warrant lifted and then I went and got my fucking driver's license back. You know, and once again, things have changed. They got like programs now where you could like pay money into like a payment program and amnesty programs to help people get their license back.

Got my fucking driver's license back, buddy. And then I was like, I could go get a real job finally. And it was hard because of where I was at. And I went to Jimmy Johns. right? And I was like I was like fuck man I've been through all this had all this did all this and I'm a 30 something year old man

going to work with some teenagers at Jimmy Johnson and I just have to fucking walk in right like I've had stuff I've had cars I've you know and I'm walking to a sub shop to work with teenagers in my 30s and like I remember be real grumpy about it I'd be like walking down the street like smug

like I'm like god damn it this sucks and I was like I gotta get grateful for this and like I just started looking at my goals and what I could do, and my attitude just started changing. I used to love, and then I started loving my walks to work. Like, I felt free again and like the, you know, I don't judge anybody that, like, takes medications, like, after they get clean, but I decided, like, no assisted medications. I was like, I'm going to eat healthy.

I'm going to exercise, and I'm going to, like, try a 12-step program. And if I don't start feeling better, then maybe I'll consider, like, taking outside medication. And, like, my brain's coming back and the spring started happening. And, like, you know, the birds are chirping. And then I found myself one day, you're going to laugh. Dude, I was like cleaning the bathrooms of a fucking Jimmy Johns. At 30-something years old, after being what I've been through. And I'm like, damn, I'm so grateful.

And they made me manager, right? Manager of Jimmy Johns, woo-hoo. But like, it started being like I started using that money, start paying back my license. Like, you got to start small, bro. You can't like, you know, get it, you know, live everything I've lived. And then start the end big podcast. You got to start somewhere. You know, what am I do without a driver's license?

So, like, start looking at my small little goals. staying clean, got up the 12-step programs, finished that IOP thing. And I started taking that serious. And before you know it, there's this guy, this rich guy.

And that's why you don't ever get down on yourself, man. Can I like talk about programs or whatever? So there's this organization in Toledo, Ohio. It's called Team Recovery, right? They're real big. It was started by this guy named Matt Bell or whatever. And they actually started that the fuck heroin shirts. I know you've probably seen those.

Yeah, someone wore it on the show, I think. So he started like the. original original that like way back in the day, right? And he, and he, so he'd been the treatment like 60 times, been arrested, homeless junkie just like me.

And this guy ended up, he owns a treatment center and like a bunch of like recovering house. He's doing really well for himself, right? And he ended up giving me a job like as a land, like to landscape all his properties. And like at six months clean, this guy gave me a keys to a truck and,

a company credit card. And he paid me pretty decent. Like for what? You know what I mean? Just because I kept, Going in like, you know, God damn it, not what I had a lot of opportunity where I could have like embezzled some money off the gas carter, took that truck somewhere else and, uh, or, or like take a side job and some up. But like, I was like if I'm, I'm going to do this all the way. Like, you know, there's no like, you know, half in, half out. Like if I'm going to get clean, that means like I'm done like with the running rackets, trying to make money, the line, the stealing, the cheating. Like if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this all the way. I'm going to keep it pure. And, um, you know, goddamn like me doing the right thing. Uh, he's, I used to ride a bike, like five miles like round trip to there, two and a half

back or some shit. And he's like, damn, he's riding like a bike here every day. I'm like yeah, I'm motivated, bro. And he's like, just take the truck to this motherfucker like gave me a truck within reason. I could drive around and, you know, eventually I got my first house. Now when all this is going on,

I'm like, I need to rekindle this relationship with my mother's daughter. Right? Even if me, you know, she doesn't like me, hate me. I at least need to like apologize for the chaos I've created and tell or like even if you don't want me in my daughter's life like I whatever I got to do even if it takes more time like I would have least like to semi be there for my daughter so me and her start talking again I finally get my first fucking house in Toledo like outside of recovery and like at this point like no one's drug testing me or anything like I could I remember the first day I uh I rented this like sublit house type thing and I remember the first night I was there outside of treatment of the transitional house I was like I get high right now and then. no one would know. You know what I mean?

But the thing is I would know. You know, and a good thing, like, I was so involved in, like, this 12-step group. And fucking, then they call it cleaning up your past, right? Like, if you picture a truck barreling down like a dust highway, right? Even after the truck stops, it takes a while for the dust to settle. So during COVID, I had gotten pulled over with some shit. And the court systems were so backed up that they weren't, like, prosecuted. right away. So here I am almost

like nine months sober in a future indictment comes back. So like I've changed my life, everything, and I barely knew about it. And I'm literally driving to get coffee one morning in Toledo Saturday morning. I'm like, man, it's so good. It just springs here. I just feel fucking great. The cop gets behind me. And I'm like, oh, man, I must have like, and I did. I like California stopped a

red light or something. I'm like, oh, man, I got a license. I got insurance. I was paying no worries. And they end up pulled me up out of car and arrested me. And I end up. So now I'm in county and like I've left out a lot of county jail. I stents I've I did after juvenile. But like I'm like, fuck. I'm in county jail up in Toledo, Ohio. And I sit up there and these motherfuckers from Franklin County drive all the way up and like pack me up, take me in like I'm nine months clean.

Yeah. And I'm just like, man, this fucking sucks where I've done everything right. And here I am. But you know what all worked out. All worked out. I spent a few days down there. End up getting released. Me and the daughter's mother, we ended up getting back together.

We're still together day. I'm married to her now. Oh, so that's your current. The girl from the boat. That's so cool. And she, this crazy girl, she, uh, she ended up moving to Toledo with me, you know? So it's like me or her and we get a house and I just keep plugging away at the recovery thing, working for guy. And then, um, you know, I was a little fed up. I was like, I think now is a good time we leave Ohio.

It's like, there's the relocation thing. Like, if you're fucking up and you go somewhere else and you're just going to live the same exact way you were living, like, you're just bringing yourself with. And you're just bringing yourself with you. But I was like this time, like I've been working on myself. I want to go start a future. Plus I live in the tropics for a while. I used to like the ocean and fucking palm trees and not this shit out here in Connecticut, right? No offense, man.

I was like, yeah, let's go move near the water, man. So that's when we moved down to central Florida. And here we are. And like a lot of things that helps keep me sober is like I'm super involved. Right. So in the 12-step program, I'm in there's something we call H&I. It's hospitals and institutions. so like we go into like hospitals and institutions

and we take like a recovery meeting in there. And like you know, I work with guys. I have like an older guy that I work with. I work with guys that are like coming in fresh off the street. And then we go into this place. It's ran by the Florida Department of Corrections. It's like a work release. And like so these guys are coming down off stretches

and then they're in their last six months. But now they could like go out and get a job and like come back and forth. So like every Saturday, like we go in there, me and a few guys, and we run this through there. And like these guys, and like I always take like a bunch of little devies and shit in there and they really dig it. And like, there was like, man, you know, we really appreciate you guys coming in, man. You know, it's helping us out.

We appreciate it. And literally they know, like, they're helping me. Bro, they're helping me a lot more than I think I'm helping them. And a lot of times like just hearing where they're at because I've like been in similar situations. And like sometimes my mind strays. I'm like, you know, maybe the money's not coming too well. Like let's run this racket or do this or do this. Like something skirting the skirts of being illegal to like make some money.

Right. And then I'll hear some of their stories. Like I won't say his name for him, you know, personal reasons. But, you know, he was in there. He was an older dude. He just got done doing 15 years for selling the equivalent of like $3,300 of Oxy back in the day. Crazy. So I run the math on that, bro.

Like what the fuck is that pretty? Like over $3,300? You know, that's when they're really clamping down. And there's like a another, like a big trend in Florida. A lot of these guys are out of towners that show up. and committed crime and ended up staying like we had a guy from uh i won't say his name of state but he was from a different state he came down thought he was going to take like to blowback on a fucking airplane got stuck with the airport ended up staying in florida for three years got another guy from

once again i won't say where he's from but he went down to miami thought he was going to where he was from when they got caught another guy that got like way too drunk and got a big physical altercation end up spending for it like a lot of these guys are just coming down there on a trip real quick thing they're going back home and they end up spending you know years of Florida. But all things side, we take it in there and just try to, you know, and like we stick on their recovery and we just try to give them some hope, right? Like, you stick and do the right thing, you know, things are possible. And then we go into a treatment center on Thursdays. And that's, that really helps me. Like, we formed the group in there. We go in there. We talk to the guys. We let the

guys talk, especially in the jail, right? Because a lot of this guy, or the work release, like, they can't, like, get real intimate, like, on their unit for obvious reasons, right? So, like, it's cool. They could come in this, like, small little group we run with all the doors shut. and they could actually talk about their feelings and shit. I mean, you can't do that. You know what I mean? You can't get all emotional, but a bunch of guys can be a target or bullet.

You know what I mean, you know what it is. So, like, having these guys, like, get intimate and, like, hearing their fears. And then we go into the treatment center and we work with these guys and, like, you know, they, like, so when I first got clean, you hear these guys like, they'd be like, yeah, I got, like, 25 years clean.

That don't even make sense to me because, like, I can't even envision 25 years my head, let alone 25 years of not doing dope, right? And I remember there's this guy, I forget his fucking name now, but he got like six months. He like got this six months coin or whatever. And I'm like, like, that sounds attainable. You know what I mean? I was like, I got 30 days.

I'm like, sick. I think I could do six months. So like I remember I just kept thinking six months, six months and I finally made it to six month. So like even me just going in with three years, some of these guys just coming fresh off the street. Like they can look at me and be like, you know, that sounds pretty attainable. What's three years? It really helps me. And then any time I, like, you know, my brain's still straight.

So like maybe, you know, maybe smoke some, hiss. but then like I look at them and I'll be like that's where it's going to take me you know every fucking time because like I've proven to myself time and time again I can't just be California sober like I just taught you you know what I mean so California sober when you smoke and don't do hard drugs anymore

not that I knock it because like I said a lot of people come off the hard drugs and then just smoke weed which obviously is damage control it's a lot better but then there's like Las Vegas sober it's like I don't do hard drugs I just smoke meth or Miami sober I don't do hard drugs I just snort blow so like where's the line drawn here right so it's just best where I should stay off it. And then me and those same three group of guys, we, um, uh, we're starting to go,

where actually I got to go do the train. Actually, on Monday I got to go get fingerprinted. And then, uh, we got to start the training. We're going into the central Florida reception center. So now we're actually going into the prison prison to like run a recovery meeting on Sundays. That's awesome. So like we all hang out or whatever. And then, um, you know, uh, so we're chilling, man. And then, uh, my partner, so we're married. We have a son now. Um, she has like a following on TikTok. You know what I mean? She's like a, so my daughter has autism.

And like, she's like an autistic, like autism mom. Like that's her niche genre, whatever. She does real well with it. And then she is in this program where we create like UGC ads for like social media. Yeah, yeah, I've heard of that. So like, we do that. And then

I work for, during the busy season, I work for like a fucking kayak company. So like I take people out to show them like manatees and dolphins. You ever seen the glowing blue water? The dino flash? the biolunessant water, like you paddle in the water and it all illuminates from these organisms in there. That's so cool.

And I'm just staying clean, man. And, you know, honestly, I wanted to get more involved in, like, social media and stuff. But, like, I'm kind of like naturally a shy guy. Well, this is a great first step into it. Yeah, that's why I was like, you know, he's putting the apple on the cake for me there. Yeah, I wanted to think you were a word, man. You've been rolling. You've been rocking and rolling.

You did really well. Yeah, thank you. I'm sorry if I straight off there. No, no, no. You did get sometimes because my style is letting the person talk. So you'll share stories thinking that you're rambling, but it's a part of that period of time, you know? You're still going along the timeline.

Now, if you were talking about like your childhood, then that would be rambling if we were, you know, talking about your time in New Zealand or something, you know, if the pieces are mixed up. What do you think is the biggest lesson you want to get off to people today from hearing your story? I mean, like, it comes back to like, when I was younger

and like making it through the juvenile system, right? You know, don't hang out with them people. You know, don't do them drugs because your life will end up like this, right? Like if you're anything like me, like that's going to roll right over your head. You can't, you know what I mean? If you're hardheaded, you're going to do it.

If I'm hard at it, I'm going to do it. I don't care what you're saying. So I can see here and be like, don't do hard drugs. You know, stay away from them people. But at the end of day, if they're on drugs or if they want to hang out of people, they're going to fucking do it rather go.

So, I mean, one thing, the piece of way that there is hope. you know what I mean like and hope from a lot of like you know there's we could just go away out on this but at least from my step from recovery so like there's hope dude

I've seen the guy with team recovery you know I mean I'm not going to put his pocket but up out there but I'm sure he's doing well financially he uh you know been multiple rehabs he used to live on the street junkie arrested I've seen you know 50 year olds that destroyed the whole life of crack cocaine go and get education

PhDs and master's agrees I've seen people start businesses and get their kids back and change your life around. So you get anything out of it, like no matter how far. And I haven't even been, like I said it from the beginning. I'm not an ecstasy kingpin. I'm not 1090, 1090 Jake's fucking prison warrior. Like, I'm just like a humble dude.

But there's people a lot lower than me that have been a lot lower than me that have found their way out too. But that's what makes it relatable, you know? It's relatable to the average person that's been in your shoes because there's a lot of you. Yeah. So don't decredit yourself for that, you know. I was real, I was going to intimidate because you have, you've had some like heavy initiator right here, right? Yeah, but, you know, sometimes the audience doesn't like the heavy hitters as much though, too, because that's not relatable, you know.

But it's interesting to people, but relatable, not as much, you know. It's more people want the not so famous on social media average everyday people sharing their story. Yeah. Which is what you did today. Thank you. And you did a great job doing it. Thank you. Yeah.

Don't tear me up in the comments too much, please. I don't think you gave people a reason to. Now, if you came here and said you were an ecstasy kingpin, that would be a little bit different. I won't go there. I read those comments ever. Well, you get that across on a lot of people's stories. That comes to there, but you need the negative comments to fuel the engagement.

Yeah, of course. You know, to get the views too. But Chris, thanks so much for coming today, man. It was a pleasure to speak to you today. And, you know, best of luck with everything. And have fun in the city with your family. Nice way.