Locked In with Ian Bick - Inside the Life of a Boston Gangster: Working with Whitey Bulger & Enforcing for the Mob | Sean Scott Hicks

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Sean Scott Hicks, a former Winter Hill Gang enforcer, spent 20+ years in prison for his role in organized crime. Once working under Whitey Bulger, Hicks was deeply involved in Boston’s criminal underworld. While behind bars, he turned his life around, becoming a writer, actor, and criminal consultant. Now the author of "The Devil to Pay: A Mobster’s Road to Perdition," Hicks shares his life inside the mob, his time in prison, and how he left gangster life behind. #BostonGangster #WhiteyBulger #InsideTheMob #OrganizedCrime #TrueCrime #MafiaEnforcer #CrimeStory #GangsterLife Connect with Sean Scott Hicks: IG: https://www.instagram.com/dirtywaterdiaries/?hl=en Buy his book: https://www.amazon.com/Devil-Pay-Mobsters-Road-Perdition-ebook/dp/B0CZMD4WDR?ref_=ast_author_mpb Thank you to ROCKET MONEY for sponsoring today's episode: Visit https://rocketmoney.com/lockedin to cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Author Sean Scott Hicks Discusses 'The Devil to Pay' 00:06:28 Life Experiences and Career Transitions 00:13:36 Teenage Life of Crime 00:19:46 Involvement in Collections and Disputes 00:26:29 Negotiating a Plea Deal 00:34:28 A Dangerous Encounter: Planning and Execution Gone Wrong 00:40:50 Intense Chase and Escape Attempt 00:53:18 Old Days of Sky Pagers and Expensive Phone Bills 00:59:45 Life Lessons and Responsibilities 01:06:11 From Pre-Release Center to Job Market: A Personal Story 01:12:41 Legal Battle and Invoking Marital Rights 01:19:02 Surviving a Rare Strain of Rabies 01:25:20 Meeting My Wife and Moving In 01:32:07 Heavy Metal Jingle Bells for Hallmark 01:39:01 From Prison to Production: A Journey of Redemption Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So remind me again, why didn't you just run a truck and move yourself? self. Well, been there, done that. Just once. Wound up with a squashed couch, a stiff neck, and my brother ghosting me for six months. I get it. I'm steering in a mountain of boxes and suddenly realize banishing this move is my entire life. That's why we moved with Mayflower. They handled everything. The packing, loading, timing, no guessing, no chaos, no trips to the chiropractor. But isn't hiring a mover kind of pricey? Not when you factor in truck rental, gas, time off work, and your stuff getting messed up. With Mayflower, we had a move. coordinator and actual professionals.

I slept the night before moving day. Sleeping before a move? Sounds very grown up. Right? It felt like, okay, we've got this. So doing it yourself may be simple in theory, but Mayflower is common reality. Is that it? Exactly. Moving?

Trust the people who've been doing it for generations every step of the way. Get a free quote at mayflower.com. Sean Scott Hicks, welcome to Lockton. like we were just talking about six months in the making. Six months in the making, yeah. Thanks to Jed Lepinski for connecting us. And I'm glad we finally got to do this. We're at your home in Massachusetts.

Yeah. And you're the author of The Devil to Pay. Absolutely, man. Hold that up for the audience. Devil to pay. Mobsters Road to Bidition. Best sellers list since it's released in June. That's so cool.

Yeah. There were some hiccups to getting it released. There was some fucking hiccups to get it released. I know my, I spoke to my attorney. this morning. He told me not to bring it up, but, you know, it's all fair game, I guess. So before the book came out, before anybody read it, it was talked about in the media, deadlineed an exclusive article on it. A lot of the newspapers picked it up. There were five individuals, former mobsters that all decided to become professional government witnesses.

They all got this lawyer to file a lawsuit against me and my publisher. to stop the publication of the book because they didn't know what I wrote about. And I guess maybe they were worried. Maybe they forgot to talk about a body they buried when they did their deals. Yeah, I remember talking to you when they were going through all this. Obviously, guys, I would never, ever. It's a government's job to catch people, not mine. I actually turned down a very lucrative deal.

I'm not going to say the production company because they already threatened to sue me. But I was on location doing some work and they came to me with a 36-month, the contract extension. I said, what's this for? And they's like, well, we're going to be going through HBO Max. I said, that's none of my business. Just 15 grand a day, man, every day I'm here. And my lawyer wants $5,000 a day. They're like, yeah, yeah, that's fine. So I said, what's this 36 months shit? And they're like, well, we want you to be the host of a true crime show. I'm like, we should have talked to my agent. We should have talked to me before you told them I was in. And that's what pissed me off about the whole thing. They guaranteed them they could get me to

do it. And I was like, well, what's the basis of the show? What's the theme? What's the concept here? Well, we're going to have you work with law enforcement around the country taking look at cold cases to see if there's something you see through a criminal's eyes that they missed. I said, so you want me to work with law enforcement to put people in prison. I said, you're out of your fucking mind, dude.

And I grabbed my lawyer immediately, Kevin Salvaggio. And I'm like, how do I not breach his contract? And he said, well, we've got two more scenes to film today. I said, all right, I'm going to film these and then we're out of here. So I filmed the last two scenes. The last one turned into a big argument. The producer, I'm not going to say his name. Nice little Jewish guy, though, from Hollywood.

Was like, you're going to ruin my professional reputation. And I'm like, you should have talked to me first. I'm like, you know, any way you go about that, I'm not working with law enforcement. They missed it. It's on them. It's their job, not mine. Sounds like something from 60 days in, just in the free world. Yeah.

It's just something I wasn't interested. than doing at all. Yeah. So did you grow up in Massachusetts? I grew up in Massachusetts, Florida, North Carolina. My mother was really promiscuous and nomadic. So she bounced from one guy to another. No dad in the picture?

The gentleman that this book is dedicated to, Henry Simons. My mother originally worked for him. And he had a nightclub called Casabarini's down on the South Shore, Marshfield, Mass. And she showed up to work one evening as a hostess wearing single, I was like, do you remember, this is back in the 70s, early 70s. This would have been 1970, actually. A couple months before, I was 71.

So it was born in September. So it was in 71. So she had the big Jackie O's sunglasses on nighttime. My pop was like, you can't wear the sunglasses in here. And he took them off her face and she had a broken nose and black eyes. And she was dating a gentleman, William Red Baker at the time. And I guess my pop. left that night and no one had ever seen William after that.

And my father, Hank, I call him Pop, had a daughter from her previous marriage to Mary MacDonald out of South Boston and thought he could only, he thought he couldn't have any more children. They had one daughter, my oldest sister, Debra, who was born in 1954, so she's about 70 now to be a non-Vet Air Force and all that crap. So my dad said, well, you can't be in the restaurant, black eyes and a broken nose. I need a nanny. So you're going to move into my house and watch my daughter while I take care of my jobs.

And they just fell in love. And then a couple months later, I was born. He brought me home from the hospital. He's raised me. But back then, it was never like legal adoption or anything like that. So I always had my mother's last name, Hicks. And she would take off with the... the new guy and always take me with her and basically hold me hostage and tell my dad,

well, if you wire me this amount of money, I'll put them on a plane. Back then, kids could go on planes without, you know, adult supervision. She would send me back or sometimes he would send her money and she would not send me back and say, well, that was not enough to cover all my bills and this and that. Send some more and I'll send them this time. That's basically how it proceeded. Did your dad have money like that enough to afford that? Pop.

Yeah. Yeah, pop had money. So it was a good childhood when you were staying with him? Yeah, Pop always made sure all the kids had everything they wanted, cars, houses, you know, the construction company, had his fingers in a lot of things. Were you and your sister close at all? Valentina, who I spoke to the other night, I had not talked to her in 10 years. She's been calling me.

One of the reasons my wife is mad. She's like, I've been with you four and a half years. and she's never called you once. Now all of a sudden she's calling every day. Well, same thing with my little brother. They need something. I do have Debbie. She's in Texas.

She put herself through med school with her GI Bill. She deals with quadriplegic soldiers. She has like a dude ranch type thing out there. She teaches them how to function in wheelchairs and be in quadriplegic and live alone. So she's pretty set there. but she's coming to the end of her career, like I said. She's 70.

Then there's Valentina. She's in the medical field now, but she's former military. She was in the Marines. And then she got married to somebody that works at the Pentagon, Brent. I don't know. He's some high up at the Pentagon. So he's in Washington all the time.

And then she decided to become law enforcement up in New Hampshire. actually showed up to my marriage, I think my first marriage to Juanita back in the 90s in freaking in uniform. I'm like, you just showed up to my, you're a cop, what are you doing? And everybody's staring, and then we got into a big fight at the reception afterwards. And then I didn't hear from her for years. And then there was a situation with her daughter, my niece, about 10 years ago. She worked at some gas station or something, somehow teenage.

shit. The manager had gotten inappropriate photos of my niece and was threatening to put him online. And that's the last time I saw myself and an associate went up and talked to the manager. He got his phone and took care of that. Where did you spend the most of your time? I know you said you hopped around a lot. Dorchester, North Quincy, right over the bridge. What was that like growing up there? It's different. Everything was different.

A lot of crime, a lot of stolen cars, a lot of larceny, a lot of violence. What kind of kid were you? How would people describe you? So, I only had a, originally I had a fourth grade education because my mom moved me around so much. So formal education only went to the fourth grade. I finished my education through the DOC. So, I guess I was just a violent kid. Yeah, it was very violent.

A lot of fighting, a lot of assaults. It's the way I took out my anger. Where do you think that violence came from? Like the anger. What was that from? No, just watching my mom's lifestyle. Seeing, you know, it wasn't unheard of for her to take me to clubs that she would frequent, you know, because no babysitter.

And if you left me home alone, I got into all kinds of shit. I was robbing the neighbor's houses. Fucking, I remember she'd pick me at one time from a police department. I couldn't have been more than 10, nine or 10. We lived in North Carolina at the time. She was dating a gentleman, uh, Eugene Roberts, who was a part of the Hells Angels down there. And, um, this particular gun store had like,

It must have been an old package store or something. I don't know because they had like this little fucking door on the side of the basement wall, the foundation that had like a shoot that went down. They used to send booze down. So they jimmyed that thing open and shot me down this fucking little fucking conveyor belt type ramp. And I proceeded to just grabbing guns and ammunition and just passing them up. And then it must have been a sign-on alarm or something. So they took off.

and I managed to crawl up that fucking ramp because it had the spindle things that just kept spinning I was going up and down it's probably comical but when you're scared kid and your adrenaline's going

because the cops were at the front door I could hear him pounding on the front door and I was on the side of the building so I got out and I ran but I got caught and they were like who were you with I'm like I don't know I don't know but they ended up calling my mom

they were like where's your mom I think she's at a place called the shop they're like shop I said I don't know there's a half a race car hanging on the wall and they're like we know it it was just a biker club so they call her she had to come pick me up

I got a good ass beating that night was that the first time you ever got arrested yeah I think it was like nine or ten years old when was the first time you ever committed an act of violence as a kid not long after that um it was a kid in the neighborhood

that had just got a um it wasn't a red line I never had been like a diamond back BMX type bike and I wanted it so I just beat him up and took it and there was no one there to show you that that wasn't okay

no do you think if there was someone to do that then your life would have taken a different turn I would like to think so but I don't know though I was just always into everything you know even before that

like eight nine years old I remember used to be a T-E show called, uh, was Lee Majors or something, the fall guy. I convinced fucking this kid Patrick Murphy.

I'm like, uh, we were in like a three-story house. I convinced him we took a bean bag and we put it out on the side of the yard and I gave him a fucking like a black trash bag. And I'm like, just jump off the roof.

You'll fucking glide right down, aim for the beanbag. It's like a parachute. Like a kid shattered both his fucking legs. Wow. So I was always into stuff. Hey all. It's your host of Lockton.

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Now let's get back into today's episode. So what happens next? Walk us through kind of like your teenage years. Teenage years. 15 started working for Joe Simpson, Toby Rust, boosting new cars. And they would just crush them over at Ace Auto over the south end and ship them to Canada for scrapweight.

But they had a junkyard there. There was actually two junkyards. One was in Quincy. Now it's called the Falls. It's a condominium. complex. But they would strip off all the wheels, starters, the alternators, the radios, Cadillacs and stuff. They would take the leather seats out. And they would use that to stock the junkyard. And then once it was just bones, they'd crush it. Sometimes they would take motors out,

but they didn't like to really mess around that much. Too many numbers on motors. And who are those guys to you? I was just Uncle Joe, Uncle Toby. Everybody was an uncle, Irish uncles. And were they working with like a mob or an organization or anything? Allegedly. Did you think that was cool at the time? I did because I saw the way people treated them. Joe was very large, about Mark's size. You know, 6-3, 6-4, 300 pounds, very bombastic. He used to sit in a trailer out front and behind his desk and drink.

What was Joe? Crown Royal and Toby was Canadian mist and just sit there and drink all day, driving the big battleship fucking size Lincoln Town cars when they were square and fucking 25 feet long. you know, fucking bracelets and gold chains and fucking pinky rings. And it's cool when you're a kid. I just saw the respect they got. But then I learned later on there wasn't respect that.

I myself at that point, I used to think, oh, everybody respects me. No, they were afraid. You know, it was unpredictable. Loose cannon. Did you have a lot of friends that were into similar things? Or were you kind of like the odd duck out of the group? Um, everybody I ran with the micro,

yeah, we were all cut from the sandcloth. None of, none of my guys ever, unfortunately a couple of them are dead, though, but no one ever turned rat. But we did our own thing.

It wasn't like we had to report to anybody or answer to anybody. It's like, if we got a lead from somebody, we would act on it and give them their cut. Now, when you say crew, you were doing all this as a teenager?

As a teenager, yeah. As a teenager running your own crew. Yeah, we were clipping, 20 cars a day. And what would the profit be on a car? I used to get between $200 and $400, depending on what the car was. Cadillacs, I got 400.

Lincoln's, I got 400. Toyotas and stuff like that. They really, they would just give me a list of what they were looking for. Like, what did the junkyard need on the shelves? And that's what I just kind of like a shopping list. And are you guys hot wiring it? Or how do you get that? No.

So back then, the dealerships used to have black lockboxes on the, on the window. of the car that had the keys in it. They never kept the keys inside. So we used to just fucking go there, shatter the window, take a five-pound sledgehammer, bust the fucking box open, and we'd have a set of keys. Did you guys call yourselves anything?

No. Well, lucky, because we never, we got one high-speed chase, but we ended up, I think, flipping that car and we got out and ran through the woods. And how many of you were there? Six. And would all six hit a car at the same time? Or you guys

No, no, we'd break it up into different dealerships. Okay. And how long did this last for? I went off for about a year. Good year. And do you get caught for this? No, I never get caught for that. Wow.

Well, that was great. So that's like your first, you know, taste of crime? Yeah, because we go out of state. You never shit in your own backyard. Yeah. And by this point, you're done with high school. No, I, I never made it to middle school. You never even made it to high school?

I made it to fourth grade. Three weeks into the fourth grade. I guess that would be my first act of violence I hit a kid with a folding chair at an assembly because he was sitting in front of me and it had nothing to do with race but it happened to be a black kid and he just like kind of leaned up

and he fucking ripped a fucking vicious fart and I was like, you just fucking fart on me dude and he was like, oh, so I just grabbed the chair and I was like fucking started crowning him and they expelled you? Yeah, I got expelled. And you never got a chance to go back in school? No.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So you make it through 15, 16, 17, you do the car ring for that year, then what happens? Then I started doing a little collection, probably around 16 and a half, 17. And what does that mean collect? Collect the money. For him?

Yeah, just go grab envelopes and stuff like that. And then intermittently, I would go out to Holbrook. My dad would have to go see Toby Rust for whatever reason. Toby was one of the largest fences in New England at the time. And I used to always talk my dad and the pop, really, I got to go hang on a job site all day. Let me just hang out with Uncle Toby. And Toby would be like,

ah, a kid can fucking help out in the garage because you had this giant fucking two-bay garage were roll-up doors built on the side of his house, just full of fucking hot shit. Everything was in there, man. From baseball gloves to fucking cases of liquor to fucking microwaves to fucking, you name it. And your pop was actually fencing stuff off to him?

He was helping him move it, I guess you could say. I know my brother, my little brother, who's his biological son called and said, I don't like the way you dedicated the book to my father. I'm like, I can remember me stopping him from beating your ass with a skill saw in the middle of the street screaming at you. He chose me and got stuck with you. Like, fuck, man. What do you want me to say? So he was in kind of like the crime world, too.

Yeah. And was he affiliated to anyone? He was on the outskirts. He'd never been arrested for anything. One time, I think back in... I think Debbie was 10 or 12 after he divorced Mary. She was cheating on him with a Randolph cop. Something happened.

The cops' breaks went out and got an accident and died. I guess they picked him up for that. And he was like, I don't know about cars. I can build houses. What are he talking about? But that was about it. Now, when you say you're doing collections, what does that mean?

She's picking up money. For who? It started out with Toby and Dave and then somehow they were kicking up to Jim Bulger. He would always stop by and pick up an envelope. They got to talking about something I did on a place in Rockland. There was a dispute between two motorcycle gangs or something. I don't know what the fuck happened. I know I was drunk that day.

but I got into it with a guy called Mechanic Mike and there was some pool cues and pool ball involved and then the plate glass window and Toby I believe was talking about it and Jim was like say you like to fight and I was like I'll go looking for trouble but I don't run away from it either and just kind of progressed from there

Was it normal for someone your age to do collections? No, absolutely not. So why use you? Because I guess I was just pretty proficient I never took no for an answer I mean the only problem I think I talked about it in the book Was a guy in Boston

I was a degenerate gambler But he owned a bar And I went there and he said something to the effect That the fuck are they sending a fucking kid for it Tell him I'll fucking pay him next week But I watched him just place a bet So I ended up taking his car keys off the fucking bar and he had a brand new Lincoln

I drove off in it took it to the fucking auto yard and they're like where's the money I said they didn't get the money but I got his Lincoln and he was like

never mind take that out back so they can the monkey he used to call him the yard monkeys he said let the yard monkey strip it down make sure it gets crushed and that same gentleman

ended up coming back to Toby's a few weeks later and my pop was there and Jim was there boy and he was screaming at my dad Dad, you owe me fucking a brand new fucking car. Your kid took my fucking car.

Everybody saw him do it. And my dad was just like, should have paid the money. I don't know what to tell you. And Jim said, let me talk to you outside for a minute. And he went outside and don't know what was said. He came back in and he goes, Hank, you don't know him a fucking thing. Sean, good job. Now, did Whitey Bulger back then have the rep he has now, like the celebrity status in a way?

It's like a household name? Yeah, I think so. I'd say so. And did you look up to someone like that? Unfortunately, in the beginning, yeah, I thought it was cool. And he was okay with having someone your age? I mean, maybe... He did the same thing pretty much with Kevin Two Weeks Weeks.

Yeah. Because I call him two weeks. I guess it's Kevin Weeks. I call him two weeks because that's how long it took him sitting in a cell before he decided to flip. That's funny. You know? Matter of fact, those are some of the... individuals that filed a lawsuit against me before the book came out.

Another one was John Motterano. And by the time they went through all the legal process, the judge was like, he's not defaming you. You admitted to killing 20 fucking people for Christ sakes, then wrote a book about it. And the same thing with everybody else that was involved. Miles Connor, one of the most prolific art theists in history. I think he wrote The Art of the Heist, a hypothetical one of the first. a hypothetical on the heist.

But he didn't know what I wrote in the book because I know Miles. We shared the same attorney, Mark K. Lippo. As a matter of fact, they asked me to go to the book release for that book. So he didn't know what I wrote about. Jason Monterano. Who else was in there?

Oh, Patrick Knee. I just threw it out there, you know. Everybody knows who you are. I just find it fucking funny because there's no super criminals. How fuck is it? You fucking have a 50-year fucking criminal fucking career. You've never been arrested for any of this shit. I said, you know, I've heard some things out there.

But it's nothing that I'm making up. It's online. A lot of people question whether he's been doing the same thing Jim was doing. I don't know. None of my business. I don't do business with him. Now, all these guys were Irish mob affiliated? Yeah.

Yeah. And were they running the city you lived in at that point? I guess they would like to think they were, I suppose. Were they the only kind of family involved, or are there any Italians? Yeah, there's Italians, there's Albanians. The last big case I went away with for the five years was what happened in South Boston on Farragut Road. It was a seafood company that was a front for a heroin operation. And they ended up with a couple of people getting shot.

my dumb ass didn't know that the DEA and the FBI were already on to these guys. And they had already, one, they had an inside guy. And they had fucking cameras all through the fucking warehouse, filmed the whole fucking shootout. And you were there? I was there, you know, clearly fucking, I was the one on the Michael Myers mask fucking shooting. Oh, bad. And then my buddy, Michael got shot in the arm.

And the two brothers, there's High Mac and DMAQ. I knew they're crazy. Chinese guys are crazy. They're from San Francisco because I managed to get hold of DMAC. And I had him in front of me like a shield. Because I just saw Michael get shot. And this guy, his brother came out of the office just for a fucking 40 cow just spraying and praying. And I'm like, he don't give a fuck if he hits his brother or not.

I was like, fuck, this shit. But I got away that night. Michael, a state trooper, Greeley. That's how the whole case fell apart. They didn't want to blow the case, the feds. And I had Judge Ball, Carol Ball. We used to call her Christmas Carol. She was pro-fucking convict.

And it was all confused. And she was like, why is the FBI sitting here? Why is the Secret Service here today in my courtroom? And they're part of the Treasury. A lot of people don't know that. So the DEA had gone to them to get to buy money on the last minute. And they didn't have time to record the numbers and all kinds of shit. But Judge Ball said, are you going to charge him?

Federally. We're not prepared at this time, Your Honor. She said to then get out of my courtroom. And she said, this is like the pretrial hearing. She said, Sean, this looks like a territorial dispute. Several people got shot, yourself included, but no one died. No innocent victims. She said, why don't we just do away with this right now?

You want to take five years today? because no one's testifying against you. I said, I'll take five years. I said, on the condition that Michael gets a break, because he got shot. She goes, but he just finished a five to seven. I said, I'll plea out right now. It costs a state a whole lot of money and drag this out for the next couple of months if you want. She was like, Mr. James, 18 months with the time served waiting, and I'll do it like that.

And I said, in the driver. He never went in. He has no criminal record. I said, so he gets two years probation. And she said, you're pushing it. I was like, I'll take the five right now on the chin. She said, all right, I'll give the driver probation. And Michael, you get 18 months.

Sean, you get fuckers. That was the last time you ever went to prison? No, I had to go back for a tune-up in 2019 for a year. I love how you call it a tune-up. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%.

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So you're doing collections as a teenager. What happens after that? I was given a condominium in Louisburg Square. I think it was my 18th birthday present. And about two weeks later, Whitey Balder got the unit next door to me. and I can remember my pop and some other people showing up and fucking really just fucking yelling at me and screaming at me they're like what the fuck don't you talk to him you don't have to give him anything

and then my pop said matter of fact this is going on the market you're moving I'm going to fuck am I moving I just got the place I just got furniture and he said go see your uncle Paul Paul McDonald at First American Roofing in South Boston and he said just go to the marina and hang him look for the big boat that says tar baby on it I said okay

so I went back down to the marina that day down and hang him um talked to sal I'm not going to say his last name because his family's still active and he told me which slip to go on and I went down

and Paul was on the boat and he said your dad said to give you the keys to the boat we'll sign the title over later he said you I guess you're going to be living on this boat for a while. It was like a 50-foot sport fisher yacht. So they moved me out of my condo over to the boat. Did White even knew you lived next to him?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. What did he say about you moving? He said, oh, what a coincidence kid. He said, well, we'll make great neighbors. You think he did that on purpose? I think so, yeah. His girlfriend lived up in Squanim area, Squawndham Road.

So I would like to think that he just wanted to keep an eye Because it was literally a couple of hundred yards from where his mass burial ground was underneath the four river bridge So that's where all the bodies were and it was very close to that like literally two minute walk But you didn't know that at the time No So what happens after that you move on to this boat? Are you still working for him or are you kind of a freelancer? freelance jobs. I don't care who I work for.

How would people find you? And what were you kind of known as at the time? The kid. The kid. Like some of the old-timers used to strip clubs and stuff like that. They'd be like, just fucking play ball. Don't make us send the kid. And that's strictly collecting money?

Yeah, I had a gimmick, you know. Sometimes it wasn't always violence. I mean, that's part of my alcoholism came from that. And just even today, just going through everything with my psychiatrist and stuff like that. I never really allowed myself to love anybody or be loved by anybody. I saw it as weakness. You could hurt me by getting it that person. Until I met my wife, Charlene, his first time I've ever felt like the emotion of being hurt.

Because, you know, I fell in love with her and allowed her to love me. I don't like that emotion before it was just never there. Things are different, but that's probably, you know, why I turned to booze. That was my coping mechanism, my crutch, because if I did something, I didn't really particularly have my heart in. Like, I didn't really enjoy hurting people. Maybe in the beginning I thought it was cool, too.

But then as I got older, it just become very arduous. You know, I would just drink afterwards. And then when I met my wife and started writing that damn book, that's when I relapsed, because so many suppressed emotions and stuff came up. And I was like, fuck, I don't like this shit. And then just fell back in a bottle. Is that because you feel like you lack that, you know, in childhood, having those feelings of love? Yeah.

My wife gets mad at me now. And I'll be the first to say, guys, man. I cry. Everybody thinks I don't. I cry. And I cried when my wife came home. And I couldn't believe it. I didn't deserve it.

I always had these feelings of, I guess you could relate it to like what a soldier goes through. A survivor's guilt. So many good guys that I grew up with that aren't here anymore. So many that their families don't even know where they are. They just left one day and never came home. So I just always like, why am I here? What fuck did I do to deserve this shit?

Again, I've only been out four and a half years. August, August 17th, I'll make four and a half, it'll make five years. It's about four and a half years I've been out. Were you just doing work for the Irish mob? No, I worked for everybody. Any mob? I don't care who you were.

Albanian, Lithuanian, Yaks. And they didn't care the other groups? No, because I don't know, man. They got this weird thing where it's like you're not supposed to, like with the Italians, you're not supposed to put your hands on another made man. I'm like, well, where do you think all these mob hits are generating from? I mean, it's a guy who'll kill you and then show up to your fucking funeral and kiss your fucking hand and tell your family out he's going to take care of them.

And you put them in the box for Christ's sakes. So it's all hypocritical shit to me. And these other groups would use you for the same thing, just like enforcing getting... If there was a contract, I would take it. I don't care where it was. And what's a typical contract pay? Getting the job done. And it's mostly just collecting money.

Collecting money. I know we could talk about it. I'm thinking of what my fucking lawyer said this morning. Anything that's in the book I can talk about. Is there a story about collecting? There was a story in there. And, you know, my boy, Quinn, gone rest of soul. He got killed.

A kid from the neighborhood, come from a really good family, wasn't involved in anything. I just came home from prison and he came to see me. And he said, there's a Colombian guy out in New York out of the Bronx. It's a major drug dealer, cocaine. So what's the guy to do on me? He said, he got my sister strung out on heroin. He turned her out because he's also a pimp. and she contracted HIV and now it's full bone AIDS.

Something's got to be done. So go do something. And he goes, I totally goes, I can get him up here. My sister can't. She's sick. He comes to visit her. I said, okay. Quinny's like, let's see how major he is.

So he put a deal together, I think six or eight kilos. I said, use my name. He'll bring it up. And we had a three-decker. And the girl on the first floor, Quinny was fucking with her, fucking whore, crack whore or something.

I was like, we walked into the apartment, we put her in a hotel for the weekend, told her not to come back. And when we walked into the apartment, I looked in it and I'm like, dude, you get fucking naked in this fucking place?

He's like, nope, strictly stand up, blow you off in the kitchen. I was like, I hope so, man. Just catch a fucking disease in here, dude, or something.

So we shut the guy up. And, uh, Quinny was supposed to lure him into the back bedroom and plastic on the floor and everything And Quinn was supposed to bring a gun And I said, Quinny, what did you get? Give me the gun

Because the guy calling him He was just pulling up And I'm like, you go out and you get him Tell him come in the back room, the money's there And he pulls out a fucking Bulldog 44 I go, what the fuck are we going to do with that, man? I'm like, you can't get a 25 or a 22 or something I'm like, can't let this off in a three-deck of a week

the whole neighborhood up. And he's like, it's all I had last minute. I was like, son of a bitch. I said, go in the kitchen. Get me a fucking knife then. And we'd already flip coins. We flipped the coin. Who's going to shoot him and who's going to cut them up afterwards?

It's fucking, I know somebody actually said, Sean, that's the most fucking disturbing story, but I couldn't stop laughing. I'm like the whole thing fucking. It looked like some fucking skit, man. Just everything that could go wrong fucking went wrong. fucking went wrong that fucking night. Who won? Huh?

Who won the coin toss? He was supposed to cut him up. I was supposed to shoot him. So what ends up happening? So I told him to go to the kitchen real quick. I said, before you got to go out and let this guy in?

Because the guy was pulling in the parking lot all back. I said, go get me a fucking butcher knife. I'll just take care of this shit. So he comes back with like a spoon that was bent and burnt from cooking crack in it

and a fucking flimsy steak And I was like, what the fuck? He goes, that's it, dude. It's a crackhead's apartment. I'm like, just go get him. I'll figure something else. So now I'm going through this girl's fucking bedroom. And love of me, I don't know why.

There was a croquet mallet in her closet. Because I was like trying to fucking, she had like wooden coat hangers. And I'm like, not even a wire hanger and nothing to choke this guy with. What the fuck? I'm looking for fucking shoes. I'm like, looking down at my sneakers. I'm like, I want to use my own shoelace. The fuck, she didn't have no laces.

Nothing. And there was like hooker boots and shit. So I grabbed the cocaine mallet and put it right behind the door. As soon as the guy opened the door with Scotty, Scotty was behind him. As soon as he opened the door, he looked down and he saw the plastic and shit. He tried to turn around. So Scotty pushed him in and I started fighting with him. And I was hitting him.

I had him by his hair with my left hand. I was punching him in the face, sitting on top of him. And I'm screaming at Scotty. I'm like, grab that fucking hand. There was a croquet mallet. I'd say, hit him with that fucking mallet, man. Fucking Scotty wound up and broke my fucking left hand, hit my left hand.

I'm like, motherfucker. And then he swung again, fucking pinched off, mashed off half of these guys a year. And he was out. So I'm like, fucking making all kinds of fucking noise. I'm like, he's out.

Knocked him out. Let's just roll him up. Pick them up, threw him on the bed, roll them up on the fucking bed cover. I said, all right. Taking his keys out of his pocket. I was like, where's the Coke? He goes, it's got to be, he didn't have anything.

I'm like, it's in the car. It's got to be in the car. He didn't drive fucking all the way fucking from the Bronx to here without the product. So I said, here's the keys. Go out and search the car, find the fucking drugs. And then you follow me in my car. I'll put him in the trunk of his car. We'll go finish this at the other place.

He goes out and he hits the fucking fob. What's he do? Alarm. Not on the fucking car. The fucking alarm's going off. And I'm standing like on the porch. with this guy over my shoulder and I'm like

fucking turn the fucking alarm off what the fuck so I go walking out there and dump the guy on the ground behind the car get the alarm off I'm like search the fucking car there's nothing inside and I'm like it's in here

and I'm like all right hold on we spun the tire wheel off and there was the duffel bag underneath the spare tire of the donut and I said there it is grab it third floor fucking window goes up

fucking this lady's hanging half out of her fucking window Scott Quinn is that you Who's that with you, Sean? And I'm just like, motherfucker. I'm like, go back in your fucking house. No, shut your fucking window. I'm calling the fucking cops. And then I hear this like weird gurgling sound.

This guy already fucking wormed himself out of like his little fucking blanket cocoon. He's on his knees swaying back and forth. Don't kill me, poppy. Don't kill me. And then like, we saw all the fucking sirens and shit, fucking coming down the fucking sides of the houses and heard him. And I was like, fuck, dude. I'm like, grab the fucking bag.

Fuck this guy. We're out of here. we start running, we're jumping fences. Quinn was like, we go to Biggie's house. Two more yards over. So we go to Biggie's house. Palming on the back door, it's glass, panes, and shit. He looks out, no, I don't know, like a white Nike track suit.

He's covered with blood. Scott's got blood all over him. Biggie looks out and he sees us. He goes, oh, hell no, man. I'm like, here, take this bag. He's like, oh, hell no, man. Get away from me because now the whole neighborhood's lit up. Fucking blue lights, fucking all over the fucking place.

and you can see him fucking put in the roadblocks at the both ends of the street and I'm like, son of a bitch, dude. So I'm like, wait, doesn't the lead, the leaves live around here? And they're like, yeah, the mom's over there. I said, well, this is why we did all this. Let's go to her house.

So I'm pounding on the fucking front door and I can hear dogs barking canines and shit. I'm pounding on the front door. Scotty goes around the back. She's got a home alarm system. He walked in the back door. That goes off. So we get in.

And I just start getting naked. And I told Sean's mother, I went over and I grabbed the thermostat and cranked it. I heard the furnace kick on. It's an older house, you know, like two-family, typical fucking New England. I told Scotty, let him in the back door. She turned the alarm off. And I'm like, get naked, dude. I'm like, your son, does he have any clothes left here?

I know you didn't live there anymore. She goes, probably, I said, get us some clothes real quick. T-shirt, socks, fucking jeans. Well, Scottie was tall. He was like six fucking five. Her son was my height. So he comes out with fucking jeans on halfway up his calves looking like fucking high water. It's like he's waiting for a flood.

So I'm like, do you got cards or anything like that? And she was like, yeah. So we're sitting at the dining room table. I'm like, we have been here all fucking night playing cards. She had some beers. We put beers all over the table. And I'm like, they're going to come because I can hear them all around the outside of the house. And then all of a sudden, boom, boom, boom.

We know they're in there. The dogs tracked them. And she's like, what do I do? And they're like, open the door or we're kicking it in. I'm like, fuck. Just go tell them I'm your daughter's boyfriend and we've been playing cards all fucking night. I didn't go over well. They took us to the hospital.

The guy was going into surgery. And they stood us next to his fucking gurney as they're wheeling him into surgery. And they're like, is this the guys? He's like, see? Motherfuck, so that was it. Was it the first time you got arrested? Like officially? No.

No. First time was officially, officially? Yeah, like a real prison sentence. 17. What do you do for that? Almost killed somebody. Yeah.

What happened? It's a bar, South Shore, over a debt. Yeah. That you were collecting for someone else. Not that someone that would you. No, they don't mean. You never did your own type operation.

I did, but I never got charged with it. Like a book or anything went back in the day? Occasionally I would take bets from just certain people. I wasn't a bookie by any means. No. You know, someone was putting five. Tires matter. They're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road.

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Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Grand 10 grand on a game, I would take that. Now, when someone like Googles your name and searches you, the other gangs you work for don't really come up. It's more or less just the Irish mob. Why do you think that is? I think it's more, I'm trying to think of what. I was in L.A. at Morgan Creek Films,

because they're actually doing the reality show for me, the fixer. We're just waiting to get these other two out of the picture. They said it's more sexier. The Irish mob is more sexier than the Italians. I don't know. I guess that's Hollywood shit. Do you feel like you just did more work for the Irish mob than anyone else? No, not really.

It was all pretty equal. It was pretty much across the board. I didn't care where, man. I've been out to Ohio. I've been out to California. There's a check I'm going. And you never, I guess, whatever, it's not like necessarily made man,

but you weren't like affiliated to just one where you were like sworn in or anything like that? No, it's, um, even when I wrote the book, I was like, this isn't a Winter Hill book. This isn't an Irish mob book. This is just my life story, guys. However you want to perceive it is up to you. Yeah. Yeah.

It's interesting that you're like a freelancer type enforcer person for all these different individuals. That's where they came up with the name Ghost. She never saw me coming. Wow. Yeah. So. But it's nothing to be, there's no badge of honor. I'm like 53 now.

Yeah. Um, I'm just like, wow, man. that caused a lot of damage on this fucking this earth. How much time did you get in prison when you were 17 for that attempted murder? I think two years, a year and a half, maybe two years.

That's it? Yeah. I have a good friend of mine who's actually doing natural lives back to back. David, David R. Clark, they call him the plug ugly. He was an Irish.

He's an Irish guy. And he was freelance for everybody. He was actually, they caught him disposing of a body. the guy that got beaten to death. But they didn't have a murder weapon or a place where he was murdered. They just found the corpse in the back of his van. So they gave him 10 years for illegal disposal of a corpse.

He was behind the wall for two years, then got transferred over to Shirley Farm. And on his sixth year, I forgot who the governor was back then. It might have been Bill Weld or something. for 10 grand he bought a parole after six years. So he got released, moved down Cape Cod, and legend has it, or law enforcement alleges, that he took a contract to kill two guys that night for the Italians.

Romano Jr., and I think Richie DeVlin got shot in the face that night. Anyways, whatever happened with Romano Jr., They were in a bar or nightclub or something. Someone cut their tire. He came out to look at his flat tire and bent over and got popped. Dave was on his way back home that night. If he did that, I don't know if he did that. The life sentence came from him having a tail light out.

A state trooper Mark Sharbon-air pulled him over. So I imagine if you just clip two guys and you're getting pulled over by a stadium, and you're already on parole for disposing of a body. He just got out and started shooting. He got shot a couple times, once in the head, in the arm, chest. I think he got shot three or four times by Trooper Charbonnear, but he ended up killing the trooper that night.

And got a natural life for that. They just could, I mean, at that point, it was a waste of time and money to try and stick him with the other two murders. He's already doing a natural life. What was that first prison experience like for you? It wasn't bad. No, it wasn't bad.

A lot of old timers are in there. I don't know, how old are you? 29. Oh, Jesus. You got almost 30 years on me, man. You don't remember the Pub 99 massacre in Charlestown, do you? No. What is that?

So, great guys. I'm going to tell everybody, stand-up guys, because I know they're not rats. Damien and Anthony Clemente, father and son. Certain individuals from an Italian organization, and family were trying to pressure Damien, who was, you know, making a few moves. And his father stepped in. Invited him all the lunch at the Pub 99 to work things out.

One of the individuals always wore a fanny pack, and everybody knew he carried a gun in that fanny pack. He reached for it at the table, the middle of fucking lunch hour. And Anthony, the old man, fucking murdered all of them. And him and his son ended up getting multiple life sentences for that. Wow. But Anthony got jumped.

up at Susa Baranowski up at the Supermax and got messed up pretty bad and he had to have a surgery and they transferred him down to Shirley no, I'm sorry Old Colony Correctional Center out in Bridgewater

and the guards came to me and they were like then I'd already done time with Anthony and his son Damien up at Norfolk and they said Anthony Clemente's coming in today he's got about 40 staples in his stomach and he feels vulnerable after what just happened

was it okay and I always had a single cell status, STG security threat group. And they're like, he requested to convales in your cell so he feels protected. And I'm like, you won't put the old man in my cell.

And I said, all right, so I got to get him bottom bunk. I said, yeah, that's absolutely. Anthony can come to heal up here. And they're like, you sure? I said, yeah, absolutely. Nothing but respect for the guy. So he came in my cell.

And it was great because, you know, we had a hot pot set. We fucking, you know how he's fucking Jimmy the fucking thermostat on the bottom with the paperclip. So he was fucking always cooking, always fresh vegetables, fucking peppers and onions coming from the kitchen. Always that fucking goddamn fucking pot. Always was sauce in it. But yeah, we used to walk the yard. Dennis Day was there, another good Irish fucking mobster.

And then I was sitting at the table with the guys. And Dennis came over to say something, say hello, something. older guy and he came over he said hey Sean man if you need anything and one of the other guys that was there so get the fuck away from the fucking table you faggot and I'm like man it's a good guy man what the fucking he goes no since he caught that life sentence all he's doing he's in the fucking gym under the bleachers fucking sucking off and getting sucked off I was like get hotter he's gay they're like as a three dollar bill there's nothing wrong with that I mean if that's your thing I don't hold anything against anybody but just see a guy that you know it was a legbreaker

like it's crazy how did you gain that much uh you know respect and in prison at such a young age if the guards were talking to you like that and you had that rapport with them um violence it wasn't it never went out of my way looking for a situation because you already know in prison you've been there so if you beat me up i'm coming back to stab you if i beat you up you're coming back to stab me so in my mind it was always like fuck the foreplay let's just get to fuck the fuck I'm just going to stick a piece of steel in you and be done with it. But it had to be something serious for that to happen. Because, you know, again, you might be settling a dispute with somebody,

but you're still locking the whole joint down. You're taking visits from people, canteen from people. You're going to take all that into consideration. Now, if you did it for a justified reason, everybody kind of rolled with the punches. Because if they did the same thing, I'd roll with the punches. But I guess, you know, You know, so when I did my bank robbery, I used an older gentleman that had done a seven to ten for a bank.

And he did, I can say his name, Billy Smith. He's deceased now. So he did an 18 to 30 for an armored car. And he got out in his 60s. And we had a bank job that came up in the South Shore. And I said, I'll take that. It was an inside job. How old are you?

This is my 20s. So this is after that first prison sentence in between? Well, I think I've had nine convictions. I'm fairly certain. That's at least what Dan Abrams' team came up with. My last one was my ninth conviction. So I said, I'll use the old man as a driver. And he said, hey, he paid his dues.

He just did an 18 to 30. He's in his 60s. Just let him drive you. It's a piece of cake. You know, armored car came in and dropped off the bags. Bank manager was in debt, degenerate gambler. I had a two-minute window where he left the money on the cart outside of the fucking gate. So it was just in and out, over the counter, grabbed the bags and screw.

That all went perfect. Got back to the car, fucking threw the bags in the backseat, jumped in the backseat, fucking pulling my fucking clothes off, changing and shit. This idiot used his own car with his own plates and parked behind a supermarket at the loading dock and got caught on film. I went directly to Revere Beach to a hotel. Paid him is cut. And then my lawyer came by, picked up money. I kept $9,999 and he drove me to Logan Airport.

Flew to Puerto Rico. Wow. Now, to get a job like that, back then there's no cell phones. Is it like, are you getting a note or how does that a page? No, no. we did have cell phones back then. I remember my cell phone. It was a Motorola that looked like an army walkie-talkie.

It like stood up and weighed about five pounds and had this fucking big black thick antenna on it and lasted like four hours. And your phone bill was like $2,000 a month back then. But we had Skytale pagers. You remember those? I've seen like old pagers. Yeah, the old skytells. I used to play with my dad's pager when I was a kid. So people just knew that you were the guy and they would hit you up and then you would accept.

there, didn't I? Yeah. Well, they would go through the lawyer. We all shared the same lawyers. Depending what the job was, we would just meet at the lawyer's office and talk because we knew that place wasn't bugged. Do you take any job or are there jobs you turned down? I've turned a lot, though. I can remember a job. I got a call one morning and before I was married, guys. And I was, I don't know, a couple of the strippers. There were like two or three strippers. I was in bed. And the phone kept ringing and ringing and and finally back when they had landlines guys so I answered

the phone and they're like hey you went in on this and I was just what's my cut and they're like between 125 and 175,000 in and out I said I'm not getting out of bed for less than 250 so yeah I turned a few down so you go to Puerto Rico I went to Puerto Rico

Billy gets picked up because he used his license plate but we had been the day before he and I had gone striper fishing on Revere Beach up by high pines headed out like to the Lynn Causeway and all that

and Kodak used to have like these disposable cameras that came in a cardboard box and Billy before selfies man he was snapping pictures of me and him with these fish we caught these two fucking striped bass

and threw the fucking camera in his trunk so when they arrested him in Victoria's vehicle they developed the fucking camera they were like took it back to the bank and they go

does this look like the guy that robbed you? And one of the tellers, I deeded me. So I knew they had a warrant for me. So I was like, and it was, who the fuck was the agent, special agent charged back to the bankruptcy task force? Forrest Shwing. He's retired now.

I would actually call him. You're like, you're making it hard on yourself. I said, when I'm done spending the money, I'll be back. And then my lawyer worked it all out. I got arrested right. As soon as I got off the plane, state police were waiting for me.

I was in Carolina, down in Puerto Rico. I met a nice girl down there, too. She wanted to come back with me. I'm like, it's not that kind of party. I said, I'm getting arrested and going to prison as soon as I get back. And this was a Fed case? They did not pick it up.

They went at the state level. They had, they were building, and that was Forrest's fault. Because when I was 52Aid, back up state waiting trial, he came up to see me and he dropped a file on the fuck like the stack of file. And he's like, I got 14 banks and three armored cars across this country that have your name on them.

I'm like, I didn't do those. I said, you got me for this one. You got me? I turned myself in. So they took me for an arraignment in front of Judge Moriotti in Norfolk Superior Court. And my lawyer was like, I'm like, I thought the feds were picking this up. He said, they're trying to fucking stick you with all kinds of other shit. Let's get this out of the way first.

I said, all right. So we go in, and the DA yelling all kinds of shit, asking for a 9 to 15 if the feds didn't pick it up. And I don't know what the fuck he was talking about. I'm looking at my lawyer. I like, I don't know what's not all set to me.

And he said, I talked to the judge, Judge Moriata. He said, I think my client would like to settle this today, Your Honor. He goes, well, it's the arraignment. It's not how we generally do stuff. We'll just pick a pretrial date. I'll determine a bail.

He goes, you got him. He's guilty. He's going to confess to it right now. He said, but there's some conditions. William Smith didn't know anything about the job. My client asked him for a ride to the bank to cash a check. And he goes, well, he didn't notice him throwing big brown money bags and diving in the back seat. He goes, he did.

But at that time, you've got to understand he's an elderly man. And my client's willing to say he threatened him. They told him just fucking drive because they were holding him on like a no bail. And so they did sidebar and shit like that. And I could see the body language and the prosecutor was all fucking bent out of shape. And we go back and the judge says, I'm going to entertain this. If I'll allow you to plea out at your arraignment today, Mr. Hicks. I said, okay, that's fine.

I said, but Mr. Smith goes free, right? Because he didn't know anything about it. And I did threaten him. He's an old guy. I said, I'll plea out today. And he said, well, they don't make them like you anymore. He said, come from good stock. He said, unfortunately, I cannot give you less than two and a half years on this.

This is a direct indictment. He said, which will follow? Because it's going to go to the grand jury. You'll go back on a 52A status, but your plea and your plea agreement will go in. And he said, the rest will follow. I don't know what the fuck are you talking about. He said, I can't give you less than two and a half years in state prison. but you turn yourself in and you're taking accountability so I will not give you more than two and a half years

fucking DA three little file you guys you can't fucking do this you can't do this and he says I'll never forget it he goes long as I'm wearing this black robe I can do whatever the hell I want to do and that was it I was the last case he heard the end of the day his last criminal criminal case and then he retired it was been like the next day that day I was a the last case he ever heard. He retired that day. That was it. And then my lawyer came back to lockup and he goes, I told you don't fucking worry about it. I play golf

with the guy. Where do you think you got that mentality of always taking the blame for others? Because you do that later on, the story you told us earlier, you've probably done it in your childhood and throughout your life. Where does that come from? Because someone had to have taught you that, right? Pop did.

He said, you know, he used to always drilling into my head. Anything done for the right reason is never wrong and if you do something carry your own fucking weight so he used to be telling me he goes if you get caught you knew what you were doing getting into it don't play the victim stand up take take it on the chin so that's well and you carried that with you probably still to this day man to this day so you get the two and a half for the robbery yeah got the two and a half for the bank state prison again yeah and this is now your second like long sentence yeah what's that like for you I was fine

man. I mean, did you make it around transfers from joint to joint? Yeah, I was in the detention centers. So you already know inmates are the ones doing everything in booking. Okay. Your property, like a lot of people, you know, it's like with like the thing with Jim Bulger, total set up, he got whacked by the government because he was going to run his mouth. Like how he got killed.

Yeah. You don't get transferred in a paperwork mixed up, especially in a federal joint overnight. It doesn't work like that. Well, they had an inside guy. that's what I think happened. Absolutely. Yeah. It wasn't the direct government

that wanted them killed. I think, and this is my theory, he had one ace card left, and it was the Isabella Gardner Museum Heist. That's why I wrote a chapter, just one chapter on my theory of how it worked, why it's never going to be solved. He was going to talk about it.

And I break it down in the book. Right after the robbery, the FBI took jurisdiction. they didn't have any right to take jurisdiction because they were still taking crime scene photographs when they took over the case. They had to have proof that any of the stolen goods crossed the state lines.

And they didn't. They were there in a matter of hours. They were still taking crime scene photos when they showed up, kicked the statees in the Boston off. And then from there, they proceeded to fucking interview the security guards. And then for 25 years, lose all the physical evidence, including the savannah.

on its tapes. They lost the handcuffs, the duct tape, everything for 25 years. They knew the gym was involved. They also knew that the FBI covered it up. And I just kind of put my theory out there. I mean, the fact that it just strange the timing of everything, though, that it was so long before he actually, like, they must have protected him all these years. He was in prison a long time. He was, he was down in, um. But they moved him to a medical center. North Carolina. And the medical center. Butner, maybe?

Yeah, it was butter. Is where he got whacked at, right? No. He got whacked in Murder Mountain in Virginia. That's what you know. Hazleton. But was that a medical center too? No.

Okay. That's the worst fucking. So they transferred him from a medical center to a supermax with the highest fucking prison inmate inmate fatality rate. They call it Murder Mountain. Meanwhile, you got all these ex mobsters that have ten bodies on them that are out doing podcasts. From New England. From New England.

Put them in a general pop. population in a wheelchair lasted 12 hours. As soon as his cell cracked, he was dead. Yeah. Because he was going to talk about the Isabella and how the FBI covered for him on it. Now, you've got to understand the Isabella was a privately owned museum. Now, during the course of Jim's trials, it cost the federal government hundreds of millions of dollars in wrongful death suits for his victim's families. Now, if the FBI in my theory was complacent for covering up the heist, because nothing happened.

happened in Boston. I mean, I don't care if you were brown, white, black, or yellow Asian, it doesn't matter. You weren't selling a fucking gram of fucking Coke if Jim wasn't getting his cut in Rocksbury for credit. He didn't give a fuck. So you're not going to pull off what in today's inflation rates. It was a $500 million heist. Now it's a billion dollar heist. You're not pulling that off in his back yard without him being in and getting his piece and knowing what's going on. It's just not going to happen. So his last ditch was going to give up, you know, everything he knew about it if Catherine didn't go to prison. But they sent her anyways for aiding and abetting for, I think, what, seven years or something?

And he was Catherine? His girlfriend that he was on the run with for 16 years. Catherine Greig. So I know he was getting ready to do like a 60 minutes thing about the museum. And that's when he got transferred. From prison. That's what he was going to do. Yeah.

He was going to spill the beans. But what that would have done was open the FBI up because the museum was uninsured and private, you know, it's still private the own, but it had no insurance back then. So they would open the door for them to be able to sue the federal government, i.e. the FBI for fucking up the case so it didn't get solved. And it would put them on the hook for a billion dollars.

I mean, I think it's very easy for like the feds to do a transfer like that and make it because it's all computerized. they can easily make it look like it was a mistake or it wasn't meant to be. They're going to cover their tracks. Yeah, it's very well covered because a lot of it is computers and designation and this and that on the federal level. I mean, even in the Department of Corrections, I know if I put in for a transfer. It's just the way the point base system, the PBS system works here. Like, I was up at Susan Bernalski, which is the Level 6 Supermax.

I got granted parole. But the DOC wouldn't fucking downgrade me. and I couldn't get released. You can't get released on parole from the max. You have to step down. You have to go to a medium and then a minimum. They wouldn't downgrade me. So I sat with a fucking active parole for a year.

And then Governor Baker came in and took over a wing at Pondville, which was the pre-release center outside of the walls of Walpole, right behind Walpole. And one of his aides came. up and she's like, listen, we got a program. It's for rehabilitation of violent criminals. You're going to have to, they're going to downgrade you to Shirley Medium. You'll be over there for 60 to 90 days.

You'll go through another class board. Then they will send you over to the minimum. And then you'll get over to TCC, the Ponville Center. But even then, it took six months. and then I had to go there and complete like, I don't know what, fuck it was, 180 days, like this intense fucking six hours of fucking all these classes every fucking day. And I finally graduated that. And then I noticed like this fucking van and everybody getting on this van every day.

I'm like, where the fuck of these guys going every fucking morning? They're like, oh, they have jobs. Some of them work at John Deere. Some of them work up at the car dealership, the Ford dealership. Then I'm like, one across from the stadium? They're like, yeah. I said, oh, wait a second. I know who runs that place.

So I got to say, I asked one of the guys that worked at, they used to call the guys, all the mechanics and set the chain gang, tire monkeys and all that. I said, here, ask Dennis for his cell number so I can call him. I'm not going to say his last name because he still works there. But I called him that night from the caseworker's office. And I'm like, I need a job. And he was like, oh, Sean, you know what I'm kind of full.

I said, I need a fucking job, Dennis. So I can get out of here. every day because now I have to do this fucking cool off period for the next couple of months. I'm not just going to sit here. I'm done with the classes. I said, I just won a job. I need to go out of here every morning, six days a week at 7 a.m. and come back at 6.37 at night.

So a couple days went by and one of the guys brought an application back and he said, Dennis had filled this out. I'll bring it back to him tomorrow morning. I did. The fucking guard came to my fucking room because there's a pre-release center. knocked on my door. He's like, you better get dressed if you want to make this fucking bus ride. I said, where the fuck am I going?

And he said, going over to fucking the Ford dealership, you got a job. I was like, fuck, yeah. So I went there and Dennis was like, listen, I had to create a job for you. I said, what am I doing all day? He said, Wolf 1, we got to get you uniforms. So Otis, I think was Otis or somebody like that came by and took my sizes and got me a uniform. I wore one of the other guys, fat eddies. It was just funny because he had like a 40 inch waist.

I'm like, fucking make shit fucking belt. Shit with fucking zip ties through the fucking belt loops. And he gave me a clipboard. I said, what do I do with this? He said, you go out back, you walk by everybody's bay, jot something down, let them know your quality and control and efficiency. And I was like, what am I jotting down? He goes, I'm going to fuck what you write on it.

Just write something on it so they think you're fucking watching them. And I did that for about three or five. four months, man. I was doing good. I was making like 12, 1,400 a week. It wasn't bad. Wait, that's great money. That was a great money. Especially back then. Yeah, I walked out with like almost 20,000 and a check. How old were you? This was 2016, so 44, 45, something like that. It's a pretty good gig. Yeah. So after that bank robbery prison sentence, where do you go to? Are you back to your, you know, normal shopping grounds?

The way it worked with me is I always knew as soon as I got out. It's just a matter of time. I think the longest period I was ever out of being incarcerated was 11 months. Aside from that, when I met my wife, this four and a half years is like a fucking Guinness book shit. 11 months usually before I was back in. And it was all for similar things. All similar things, yeah. Bank robbers or.

your top one? One bank. I got convicted of it. Yeah. What would you say is your go-to that you would add all your charges that you ended up in prison for? A bunch of conspiracies. A lot of construction stuff.

Like I remember we were doing, I think it was Sharon. Somehow, my pop won the bid on replacing the fucking granite steps at the town hall. And we're supposed to remove the steps, regrade it, reset them because they were all like fucking out of whack. So we were over there working. I don't know the guy running the fucking backhoe, man. You fucking probably drunker than I was. You ended up breaking a couple of these fucking giant granite steps.

I'm just like, oh well. So we put in another bill for like, I don't know, 190,000 over the bid. And it was like, the fucking things fucking broke. They're fragile. We got to get new ones. You have to go to a quarry up in Maine to get these. They didn't like that too much.

So I got a conspiracy fucking conviction on that one Because I was just like fuck it then Keep going through the back doors Your town hall not mine, I don't live here I just walked off So I ended up getting indicted They charged you for that Yeah, construction fraud

Construction fraud Why? Because who got to fraud at the insurance companies Or? The town. Oh, the town got frauded Because I think the original contract Was like just shy of 300 grand

And I tried to fucking Hit him with another 200 Wow Yeah I walked off the job. Did you ever get a Fed case? No. It was always state.

Always state, yeah. Even with all your affiliations and... Well, you know as well as I think. It takes 60 months for the feds, though, to build a case against you. You're never out for 60 months. I was never out for 60 months. I mean, plenty of my police reports and stuff. There's always a Fed, whether it's DOJ or FBI, but it's just never out long enough for them to...

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What was your, you know, thoughts on seeing some of these leaders of the organizations you work for getting arrested and popped and, you know, sent to prison all around you? Because I'm sure you've seen a lot of guys go to prison. The geriatric gangsters from Boston? A bunch of fucking rat bastards. No respect for them. Because when you're young, you look up to these guys, like they're gods or something. And you find out they're just fucking human. The worst kind of human.

They testified. Never going to see me on a fucking stand. It's like, even when my wife got, he's got to go to court for beating this girl up in the fucking four years. And the DA called me the other day. And I said, you've already spoke to my attorneys. So she goes, well, we're subpoenaing in you. I said, okay, if that's the route, you want you. to go. I said, I know you guys have already been advised. I'm invoking my marital right. I don't know.

So you want me to get on the stand and raise my hand and say, I'm invoking my marital right. Fine. And I said, I'm then walking off the stand. She's like, well, you know, and I said, no, it's not working like that. I said, one, you allowed my wife to turn herself in three days after it. I didn't see anything. My house guest didn't see anything. The girl, my I fell down the fucking stairs for all. I fucking know. That's what my wife said. So I believe her.

My wife's not a violent person. What the fuck do you want me to say? I said, you know, well, we could do this. I said, no. You allowed her to turn herself in. You released her on a personal recognizance. So she's not looking at any kind of jail time. She's looking at probation, worst case scenario.

If, in fact, she did anything. I don't think she did. I said, you know, the girl had socks on. She was coming down my fucking hardwood stairs. They're slippery. I've said, I've slipped and busted my ass on those stairs a couple of times. I said, what do you want me to say? I said, but I'm invoking my marital right.

She hung up on me, District Attorney. It's my wife. They must get a kick out of you. It's funny. I walked in, I have a neighbor over here. I don't know when you're pulling, and you see that little red cape house down there at the beginning of the driveway. Near the basketball court a little bit. Yeah, there's a house.

There's a 2,000-foot cape in there. It's buried in the woods. That came with this. And when I first moved in, the neighbor was like, oh, I've been trying to buy that house for 15 years, man. Maybe we could come to some kind of agreement on it. I'm like, not for sale. You said, what are you going to do with it?

I said, my daughter wants me to renovate and give it to her, but I'm not going to do that either because it's not going to teach your responsibility. This is probably just tear it down because I've looked at it. It needs too much renovations. I said probably tear it down. And he's like, well, I'll just sell it to me. And I said, I told you it's not for sale. So at that time, I still had the girls, my hounds.

Diesel, my wife's little mini shepherd. And the girls used to go fucking barreling through the woods. All of a sudden, fucking animal controls come in here, hitting me with these citations every day. This guy put trail cameras up. His dogs are on my property. Now, you saw a diesel. He said, I'm afraid to let my children out in the backyard.

because he's got a vicious German Shepherd. We're afraid to let our own dog out because it's constantly. And they're coming with photographs and trail cam fucking pictures. And at times and dates. And all of a sudden, I'm looking at all these citations. Like over $3,000 in fucking citations from my dogs crossing the creek. So then she ended up taking me to court. Go in front of the judge.

And I tell my wife, I'm like, you wait out here. I said, I don't need you fucking in here cussing the judge out. We try and figure this shit out. So I went in there and told the judge, you know, I brought videos of dogs playing with my grandchildren. I'm like, this is not a vicious dog. It's not a vicious German shepherd. He's a miniature.

I said, hell, I tried to get half my money back from the guy. I bought him from him. I said, you saw me a fucking dud. This thing looks like a fucking coyote, not a shepherd. So they added everything up. The judge was like, the fuck, man. over $3,000 in citations in three months, four months? And I said, yeah, I think it's excessive.

And he started asking the Animal Control Officer, Anna, who actually turned out to be really decent. He said, why did you go from $10 to $50 to $150 to $150? Because Mr. Hicks has no respect for authority. He thinks he's above the law. And the judge is like, I'm a little excessive. He said, did anybody get hurt? Any property?

Any people? She's like, no, but the dog's constantly in the neighbor's yard. okay he's a fucking puppy he's just fucking out with the other puppies so the judge said well I'm gonna knock it down

he said 530 Sean does that sound okay I said 530 you work and she said your honor I'm the animal control officer and he says yeah well I'm not gonna charge him over $3,000

he said he'll pay $530 that's fine with me so that was on a Friday Monday I'm gonna knock at the door from a constable what's up? Sean Hicks.

I said, yeah, I'm Sean Scott Hicks, man. What's up? Here you've been served. I opened it up. The following, that following day, it was a Tuesday, she brought me before the fucking city council. And they wanted me to surrender my dogs.

That's what's my mother. Mark was with me. And he's in there fucking trying to talk, like, you know, do his, he's like, what are you talking about? His dog? He says, he has only one dog that bites, and it's Loki, and we're not here for Loki,

because Loki never leaves the property. So they gave me 30 days to put that kennel up out back. And even the guy said, no, one of the ladies, there was a couple ladies on the board. I was showing videos. I'm like, listen, these dogs ain't vicious, man. They've been around my grandchildren since they were born. So she said, out, 30 days. I said, I can try and get a kennel put up in 30 fucking days.

She goes, no, 90's fine. 90's fine. So. I did that And then I had to get diesel neutered And all this other crap So we got that out of the way So I beat the animal to control officer twice

And she really hated me Like she hated me But Charlene and I had separated And after the coyote attack Loki got fucked up pretty bad The coyote that bit me in my legs Was rabid so I caught rabies I almost fucking died

That was nuts In the fucking hospital But they used to come by every day I gave him the code to the door, animal control. And I said, just don't go in the fucking house with him. Just, I left the basement door open and I left the top floor balcony door open so he can go do his business. I said, he's torn to shreds right now. But I'm in the hospital with the rabies treatment.

So I said, just open the front door, look through the windows, make sure he's nowhere near the door, put a bowl of food and water in there from every day. And I'll make a donation to you guys when I get out. And they did that for you? Yeah, they did that for me. That's great. I can't believe you got attacked by a rabid coyote. Dude, fuck, man. I was fucked up.

Rabies is no joke. The medical journal is doing a paper on me. I guess on the second person in history that's ever survived that strain of rabies. Wow. It was nuts. How long was your longest prison sentence? Five. Five years.

Yeah. And every time you go to prison, are you solo or do you run with people? Like, who do you associate with? I always talk with guys. Marty O'Brien, he was my handball partner. I know Ben Affleck, he makes money off the movie The Town because it was based on him. Oh, that guy? Yeah.

Is that the one with the viral clip where he's in the courtroom and he is telling the judge, you know that movie about the guy? Yes. That's a guy who is a great handball player. He got busted for like a traffic ticket, I guess, like a few years ago and it went viral. Wow. You were in prison with him? Yeah, it was my handball partner.

And he was serving time. Was he finishing the sentence for the town? He was for an armored car. That guy's a G. Yeah, is. Are you still friends with him? Yeah. Doesn't he live in like Rhode Island now or something?

He has to believe he's in Pawtucket. That's Rhode Island. We have, I've got an interest in a construction company out of Pawtucket, Northeast roofing and siding. So, Fat Polly. He's actually in the reality show. You know, some of that's what I'll talk to you when we're done with your show. Yeah.

Because Mark and I were like, we got like 400 and some hours of fucking top-notch video shot. So. So those guys like who you're just talking about that you were in prison with, did they talk about their crimes in there? No. No. They're just quiet. No.

It's like, you know, guys, like you know, like we were talking about earlier, we just got fucking, we went down the other road. But guys in intake, the inmates that work are. convicts at work intake. They know you're coming days before because for everybody that doesn't know once you get classified, it's a multi-month process. And then your property officers are going to come to your cell one day. Not going to tell you when. And he's going to take all of the stuff that you're packing up. Your TV, your hot pot, your fan, all your fucking shoes, all your fucking jeans, because we could wear jeans, Levi's and shit like that. So basically, you know, you're

allowed to carry a ditty bag with you. Your shower. bag with your cosmetics you can't have any fucking food products you can't have everything has to be fucking if it's toothpaste going with you it better be sealed fucking toothbrush it better fucking be new still in the fucking plastic that's what you take with you is cosmetics some soap to wash your ass with um couple pairs of socks shower shoes because you never step in a fucking prison shower barefoot you'll end up with pregnant fucking toes guaranteed give us like a good crazy prison story uh that you experienced while you're there So I was at Susan Bernowski on the parole.

It was, they told me, the caseworker told me, and one of the guards told me, he says, you're out of here in the morning, you're going down the hill to the medium. So standing outside myself, and it was over some boxings between two Mexican guys, two Spanish guys. And there's only one set of stairs that came up to tear,

and it went horseshoe around the other side, just typical block. and so the one guy that was in question over a debt and I saw the other guy coming up the stairs and I saw the bone crusher in his hand like a fucking 14 inch fucking piece of steel I was like oh it's gonna get ugly so the guy that owed the money

instead of going and running he ran towards the guy with the fucking bone crusher and they collided right behind me I get pushed up against the rail and I can hear him sticking the living shit out of the guy but they got my legs pinned because now the guy falls and my fucking knees are between the fucking railing. I'm stuck there while this other guy's fucking stabbing the shit out of them. I put my hands up like this.

I'm like, I am not involved in this because the guards come in. Then the fucking Goon Squad comes in. The hips come running in. Hicks, don't move. I'm not fucking moving. These guys are fucking, there's a fucking limp guy pinned against the back of my legs. I can't move. I'm not doing shit.

The blood all over me, all over my shoes, all over the tear. And they're like, oh, you. You're in trouble now. I said, in trouble for what? I got stuck in traffic. Fuck out of here, man. Watch the cameras. I didn't have no involvement in this at all.

I just got pinned against the railing. I'm like, guys, fuck, man. He might still be alive. I don't fucking know. Maybe you should get them, the nurses in here. And you're like, no, he's gone. I knew he was dead.

He was dead weight against the back of my heels. I was like, fuck, dude. But they came in. They took me to the hole. Fuck, it took my fucking, took my scrubs off me because there was blood on the scrub, blood all over my shoes. my socks are soaked.

And I'm like, you guys are really going to jam me up. Fuck up my goddamn move tomorrow over this shit. They let me sit all fucking night. They actually took me from the hole and transferred me in the morning from the hole. So you still got to go with the prison? I still got to go down the medium, yeah. That was crazy. I really thought I was fucking lost my parole and everything over that.

Wow. Yeah, it was just. When did you get out for your last prison sentence? August 17th, 2020. 2020. Yeah. But you had already rebuilt. your life.

No, I didn't it. Oh, so you started fresh after 2020. Yeah. So you went from a teenager all the way to 2020 when you were in your 50s. Yeah. When I got, I was 49 when I got out. And I had already been doing some work with ample entertainment. They gained access into the prison two days before I got out and came and shot me in my environment, is what they called it.

So they filmed for two days in the prison. Then they filmed my release. A warden coming out, shaking my hand. The superintendent, they don't call them wardens anymore. Shaking my hand, and then we went out to dinner, and my lawyer met us there. And he said, we got you a condo, but the furniture hasn't been delivered yet. So you're going to stay in a hotel for a few days until the furniture gets set up. Gave me the keys to the condo, told me where it was, which was kind of where I wanted it right downtown in Worcester.

And then I met my wife and fell in love. And she moved in to the condo, which was kind of cute because the bedroom set came last. So, and I had not, I hadn't told anybody to buy me a TV. So I called my buddy Billy, who was a dealer, a car dealer, car dealer at my cousin's lot, Joe. And I said, I need to fuck a TV. And he said, I'm working late, man. I can swing by the house. I'll bring you a TV and I'll take a TV shot.

shopping this weekend. So it's funny is they delivered a dining room table, a love seat, a couch, but that was it. And Charlene moved in with me, and I told her, you know, I have two choices right now because even my lawyers didn't believe me. They're like, you're going straight. I said, I'm going straight, man. I said, you know, this entertainment thing, who the fuck says crime doesn't fucking pay?

Looks like it's going to pan out. I said, I got you on a hook for $5,000 a day on location next week. I get $15,000 a day. He's like, what do we do? I said, you're my lawyer. You just fucking tell you. Ryan Reynolds here for MintMobil. I don't know if you knew this,

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Up front payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. Tell me what to say and not the fucking say. We go up in the fucking Maine and sit in a hotel and we film every day. I don't fucking know.

Why were they interested in you? Like this guy that's been in prison his whole life? Were you shocked when people reached out to you? I did an interview. I may have been James' interview. He said, out of all the, he said, I've had plenty of, former organized crime people on here. He said,

but I don't think I've ever had one really that didn't testify. He said, it kind of makes you an anomaly. So that's what I would like to think. So you think that's why the news reached out to you? Either that or I'm fucking incredibly fucking handsome. I mean,

I know what my lawyer tells me. He's like, dude, he goes, you got fair skin, red hair, fucking blue eyes. You got the look. Yeah, he said he goes, you know, and you didn't fucking become a fucking rat. said, you know, he goes, everybody likes the bad guy.

So do you build, because you get into music at one point, too. I've always had a passion for music. And that was when I got out. Charlene and I, that was funny, because I had Loki. That's the first thing I did is I went to the shelter and got the most broken dog I could find. And she moved in and we were both, both of us fucking sleeping on a fucking little fucking couch, curled up on a couch

to the bedroom set came a week later. And then that's when Patrick Turner from top cover films approached me up there and he had come down and said, I want to do a reality show on you. He said, but we can't have five cameras and people walking around

fucking boom mics and everything in a fucking one-bedroom condo. I'm like, I'll just sign the lease on it. He said, well, break the fucking lease. He broke it real the fucking law into the sun. So we found another house Big five bedroom colonial Over in Worcester

That was during COVID So we had to furnish the fucking joint I was paying the ass Because all the furniture stores Were like 8 to 12 weeks for delivery So We spent a week or two Just driving around New England

Saying I'll take that if it's in stock And you can deliver it And that's uh We got to the other house And we started filming For like 12, 14 months Maybe even longer than that they would just show up with a big production trailer.

And that particular house had a two-bedroom in-law apartment downstairs. So they used one of the bedrooms, turned it into fucking look like fucking NASA for Christ's sake. Laptops everywhere, computer fucking screens everywhere, like these monitor screens that someone would watch. My daughter stayed Asia. She was in, she's in the show. She stayed in the other bedroom. She had her own kitchen, the living room and all that stuff down there. And we just kept filming, filming and filming.

And I was like, okay. But I had conversations with my lawyer, and I had a conversation with Charlene before we even started. I said, listen, I only have a couple options here in life. I said, I can't get a job anywhere. I said, I'm not going to put a tool pouch on it and become a construction worker. I said, I manage construction jobs. That's no big deal. I said I can either go back to organized crime

And then I cannot be in a relationship with you Because I won't put you in danger like that Or I can just do this entertainment shit And fucking I'd like to follow my passion for music And start a band and all that shit too So she said no That's what you want to do, do it Just don't break any loss

So put a band together Band came a little afterwards I hooked up with Michael because no studio would let me record. They're like, because everybody would tell them, don't let that guy in your studio he's going to end up taking it from you.

So Michael Harmon out at Watch, use it. Mike, this is for you because I love you, brother. He's the only person in New England that would actually produce me, my music. And I had no band at the time. So Michael would play all the instruments. You would play drums, guitar, bass, whatever else, man,

and then produce everything for me, and I would just write the songs and sing them. And then I went through Rob Schwartz at Humeg distribution. He gave me a distribution deal with Sony, the Orchette. He rolled the dice. And then I hired a band. You got traction very quickly for music, which is kind of unheard of for that. I mean, unless you're like a big pop star or something.

Well, Rob actually is pop and hip-hop. I was his first rock act ever. I mean, it's hard to stand out as a rock art. Yeah, rock artist. And so I think my band, I've had a couple different lineups with guys I've hired and fired, you know, different players. And I think I've been submitted for three Grammys so far in four and a half years. Crazy. He hooked me up with my first acting gang in an apocalyptic fucking zombie horror movie that comes out.

next year. He also got me the gig to record an original song for a movie soundtrack, which that was cool because I got to take my wife to a red carpet and stuff like that. Don't laugh, Matt. But when they called me, they're like, Sean,

if you say no, it's okay. But the director and the producer really love your music. And they want to know if you can do a heavy metal rocked out jingle bells for a Christmas movie for Hallmark. And I was like, what? And he's like, you can say no, dude.

It's not going to refer. select on you. Like, fuck yeah, I'll do it. So that's what we did. We did a heavy metal version of jingle bells. I feel like you're a walking testament that crime doesn't pay. Like, I'm sure you're making way more money now than any type of, you know, collection or crime that you've ever done. But granted, I mean, granted, you needed that to get to where you are now. You've kind of used that as a backbone. It's opened a lot of doors for me. The crime aspect. The crime aspect, because everybody's infatuated with organized crime, which is, it baffles me because he shouldn't really look up to people for that stuff.

Because, I mean, at the end of the day, man, it's a dark business. You know, you're not climbing that ladder without hurting people. And it took me, it took me, Jesus Christ, until I got out last time to figure out, there's no such thing as a victimless crime. I mean, I might do something to somebody because he's an asshole and he's involved in shit. that doesn't mean his mom or his wife or his kids or his brother or his sister or you're in that life so i mean it's a ripple effect why do you decide to write the book and were you worried it would

open up you know skeletons in your closet i decided to write the book i actually wrote um that cabinet over there has got 16 manuscripts that i wrote while i was locked up in prison um that are ready to publish they wanted that one first they said well publish whatever else you write we know you can write but we want an autobiography first so you've always had this sense of the entertainment world in you why do you think you didn't use that all of these years loyalty to the streets but why where does that come from your your pop pop

yep yeah so childhood plays a huge part in the person you become yeah i like to I would like to believe that the my pop was just

Jewish. So I like to think that the European values, morals that he instilled in me kind of dictated who I was, you know, as an adult. It defined me because, I mean, you know, I do a lot of bad stuff, but I always justify it saying, well, it's for the right reason. Do or did? Did. Past tense. I mean. But again, I was talking with, uh, Sarah Ebjner or someone doing an interview for some writing shit.

And she said, do you ever think, are you done with crime? Do you think you'll hurt anybody again? I said, I honestly can't say I am. If someone hurts my family, I'm just going to do what comes natural. So I guess you can say, I'm in retirement,

a limbo? I mean, actually jump into it in one of the chapters in the book. I remember a situation I was in I was in Walpole and it was a young kid that came in at 18 and he was like

really really loudmouthed and he's like I'm a fucking killer I got a natural life sentence and I don't know we're in the yard it just rubbed me wrong I'm like you're not a killer you're a fucking murderer

I said a woman that gets beat and gets fed up when it can murder her husband and she's a murderer I said someone can break into a fucking house And a guy catches the wrong end To the stick and fucking he Defending his house He's a murderer

I said that doesn't make you a killer I said a killer kills and kills and kills That's what he does It's a difference you should learn that So How do you make amends with You know things that have happened in the past Action?

Every day I try to make a living manse And you know I don't care what anybody thinks about it I wake up in the morning morning and the first thing I do is I get down on my knees and I pray to God. And I say, please don't let me hurt somebody today. That's how I start my day. Do you ever have moments where like maybe you're in a public setting and, you know, someone does something and that makes you want to react to that?

Yeah, that's caused a lot of tension between my wife and I. That's why we don't go out to eat anymore or anything like that because I always, I always sit in the back watching the door. We're sitting somewhere. I don't know how to eat. And, um, guy was with his, it was his wife. There was no kids there. I kept staring at me.

I just got up in the middle of dinner. I walked over. I'm like, fuck you staring at me for you. You're looking at me like I owe you fucking money or something. I'd do something to you. And he was like, I'm sorry. I watched your podcast. They like it.

I felt so fucking. I said, man, I apologize. I said, I'll pay for you and your wife's dinner, dude. I apologize. And he's like, no, can I get a selfie? I was like, sure, whatever. So we just kind of don't even go out anymore. But I mean, that's not really much of a way to live, right?

You can't be afraid of yourself and your actions. I'm not, but when it causes, like, you met my wife. She's a tiny little girl. We were at Stop and Shop, just getting groceries. And one of the girls was like, oh, my God, can you sign this for me? And my wife's like, we're trying to buy fucking groceries. Can you fucking people leave us alone? I can see you're saying that.

Yep. She's from Charlestown. She comes from a very storied family of armored car robbers. What is with Massachusetts and the robberies? It's easy. That's what it is. Like you guys are like the capital of bank robberies. Cheesy.

It's crazy. It's easy, ma. What do you think is the biggest, you know, lesson you want people to take away from, you know, you do these interviews, you do movies, TV, the book? Like there's got to be a higher purpose for you somewhere, right? I think that, again, this is just me. I'm Catholic, so I'm Irish Catholic. I shouldn't be alive. I've been shot four times, stabbed six times.

Once I got shot fucking right in the head, point blank. Just fucking cracked my skull. Knocked me to fuck out. And I woke up with my buddy in the backseat of the SUV, fucking digging his finger in, fucking laughing, and didn't even go through the skull of hard-headed fuck. But I would like to. Like, if anybody takes anything, it's not a badge of honor to go to prison, as you know.

There's nothing. I never received or took away any satisfaction from hurting another human being. It was just job description. I hope that in the short period of time, I've been out of prison less than five years. I've managed to start a TV and film production company, form a record label, get distribution through Sony. Acting movies. Been on multiple sets for projects that are in post-production right now coming out.

Wrote a best-selling book. Working on a book one of a five-book series for adaptation to a legal drama. Nothing to do with organized crime. It's about big pharmaceutical. I mean, it threw a murder in the first book because I go, what the fuck good is a story without a murder. I continually moved up. We went from a one-student-old.

bedroom 1,100 square foot condo to a 3,000 square foot house to almost a 6,000 square foot managed. I was actually talking with my agent. She said, Sean, you've done more in less than five years than some people will ever do in their lifetime because of your work ethic. So the whole time battling fucking alcoholism. Because when I relaps, it's not just like, oh, I had a couple beers with my buddies. Like the liquor store delivers here.

four half gallons of Jack Daniels a day. And it always ends up with me being taken away in an ambulance. It almost died in March. It was just a lot for my wife to handle. She said, I'm not just going to sit here. She took off and hung out with my drummer and his wife and children in L.A. for a couple months. She's going to, he's going to drink himself to death. And I was really trying to, too.

Because I just was like, why do I have all this and other good guys don't? And it's just that survivor's guilt. but what I want from someone that I don't care if you're an ex-con you already know you're labeled for life there's you're always going to have that fucking that number you'll never forget it it's tattooed on your soul

W-86-293 is my fucking wallpole number it's always there you're always going to have a stigma against you is you're an ex-con can't be trusted you're going to do this you get into that I just hope that You know, and if you're battling addiction, it is a disease, it's recognized as a disease. It doesn't matter what you're poison in, you know, whether it's narcotics or booze.

Anything is fucking possible, man, if you put your mind to it. You just have to really want it. You want to get that. For me, I've got a good psychiatrist. He tells me, recently he revealed to me that he goes to see a shrink after. He goes to see his shrink after he talks to me. which is, I was like, that's fucked up. But yeah, anything you want in life is possible, man.

It's just you've got to really put your mind to it and just achieve it. I mean, what works for me is I do like short-term goals. Like, you know, it's like some people say, it's my three-year goal or my five-year goal. Nah, man, I got like fucking two-month goals. What am I doing in this next two months? That's positive and moving me forward. That's a great attitude.

Yeah. Well, Sean, I appreciate you sitting down with me today. and inviting me over. I was a pleasure talking to you. Absolutely. And hearing your stories. Yeah. Yeah.

And we'll have the link to your book in the description of this episode. And, you know, excited for when you drop the second one coming soon. Absolutely. Remember, guys. One of the funniest stories in here because people like, you know, even my editor said, Sean, I am not supposed to laugh at some of this shit. When I first got out, I had not been to confession in 30 years. I went to go see Father Santiago over.

at St. Paul's in Worcester. And this was during COVID. So they had the confession outside. And there was like this fucking screen, like a curtain. And they're doing confessions outside. And now me, just getting out, I'm looking in the parking lot.

I see all these fucking people sitting in their cars. I'm like, these fucking feds, cops? What the fuck is this shit? Totally fucking blanked on it's COVID. So I just really was getting into a new relationship. I needed to go to confession and try and, you know, do away with some of this baggage that I'd been carrying my whole life. But the priest, he was looking at me.

I started patting him down and I'm like pulling his shirt open, his little, his frock and shit. And he's like, what are you doing? I said, are you a fed? You're a real priest? Are you wired or something, man? I said, I haven't done this in 30 years and I got a lot of shit to get off my chest. So I go, you got an ID or something?

He goes, they don't give priests IDs. I'm a priest with COVID. I said, we're all these people out. He goes, they're weighing to give confession. I was like, oh shit, okay. So we sat down and I started talking and it wasn't even a half hour into it. He pulls the curtain back and he's like, I'm going to go in and get some water. I'm like, you're all right, father?

He's just a little heavy, just a little heavy, but we'll finish. So he came back out, gave me a water, he's drinking a water and started going to do another story about something. And I could hear him like clearing his throat. And I pulled the curtain back. And I'm like, listen, father. I'm not confessing to you. I'm confessing to the guy upstairs. You're just a conduit to get me there.

And he was like, I understand. He said, just, we'll be okay. Let's just finish. Are you almost done? Let's just finish. I say, yeah, we're done. But yeah. That's funny.

Yeah. You thought he was a fed. I thought he was a fucking fed. Did it help the confessional for you? It allowed me to put some of the baggage down. Yeah. And again, you mentioned the word of men's. I've gone to see some people and families from my past.

One or two set his water under the bridge. A lot more slammed the door on my face. He called me a monster. How dare I show up at their house? I tried, though. It's hard to forgive. Forgiving is very hard. Even, you know, some people have small, petty things they hold grudges for

and other people, you know, right. Hopefully so, it's interesting.