Locked In with Ian Bick - Inside The Night My Actions Took a Man’s Life & Sent Me to Prison | Branden Terrell

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Branden Terrell recalls the night he took another man’s life, the weight of that moment, and how he has tried to move forward. #ManslaughterCase #TrueCrime #CrimeAndPunishment #LifeAlteringMoments #Redemption #LegalConsequences #SecondChances #hardtimes Thank you to FACTOR for sponsoring today’s episode: Head to http://FACTORMEALS.com/FACTORPODCAST and use code FACTORPODCAST for 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. Connect with Branden Terrell: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brandenterrellcoaching/?hl=en Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://convictclothing.net/collections/convict-clothing-x-ian-bick Timestamps: 00:00:00 Two Sides of a Story: Crime and Its Impact 00:05:20 Family Background and Childhood 00:11:10 Dreams of Becoming a College Athlete 00:16:49 The Challenges of Parental Support 00:22:21 College Partying and Consequences 00:28:28 Committing to Sobriety: A Year with Victory Outreach 00:34:22 Friendship and Grow Operation Beginnings 00:39:52 A Night Out Turns Dangerous 00:45:35 The Night of the Tragic Event 00:51:57 Reflecting on Past Actions and Their Impact 00:57:30 Journey from Prison to Redemption 01:03:39 Launching a Residential Treatment Center 01:08:59 Challenges of Returning to Legal Residency 01:15:00 Overcoming Domestic Violence and Attack 01:20:20 Navigating Legal Confusion and Arrest 01:26:00 The Impact of Emotional Jurors in Trials 01:31:09 Discussing Opportunities and Sharing Insights Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brandon, welcome to Lockton, man. Straight from California. You left the warm weather for the cold. I keep telling guests that because they keep coming from all over the warm parts and I'm stuck here in the cold. I mean, it was actually pouring down rain. It's still raining right now. So I was happy to see the sun, but it was super cold. I had like just my t-shirt like this when I got off the plane and got to the parking garage.

And I was like, man, it's cold. Yeah, it's cool. I mean, this is a warmer day for us out here. But this is going to be an interesting episode, man. This is the first time I've ever had two sides to one story to put into perspective. I had Heather Bishop on the show. You watch the episode. The audience watched the episode.

And you've done other podcasts. But this is the first time I've sat down with someone where you have both sides. And it's the person that did the crime and then the victim's family. So seeing that is going to be interesting, you know, for the audience to hear. And I feel like it's my job as an interviewer to kind of. you know, give the opportunity to both platforms to both sides so they could share because there are two sides to every story. Yeah, no, for sure. I think it's, like you said, right, one, you're a journalist, but two, like you also want to be part of helping bring any closure or just helping

in any situation by allowing the story to be told on both sides. But yeah, I think obviously I've done some podcasts, but I haven't done a podcast. with someone or done an interview with someone who like has talked to Heather or any of Ryan's family right and so and obviously then watching the podcast right like you know obviously like I'm not here to defend myself right like I did 11 years almost 10 years nine months in prison but like so I don't really I'm not here to do that I'm here to acknowledge like what I've done and watching that and seeing her get a emotional, like that was hard, right? Because it's been years, but still, like, that's something

that, like, it's always going to be there. And so seeing that, that emotion, seeing that pain was was definitely hard. But it just was a reminder, like, never forget, you know, the pain that you cause, right? And never, like, you got to just never forget because, you know, a lot of, it's, it's cliche in the sense that like, you know, we find our purpose through pain often. Obviously, like I create a lot of pain. There was a time I was in pain too. And so like through that and I like feeling that pain,

it's why I go back in the prison, right? Because I'm reminded of like why I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm, you know, it's a good way to check your motives, right? And so seeing that and first off, thank you for bringing her out here. and given her the opportunity, I do think their story needs to be told, right? Like, I think there's a lot of people that have been in similar situations and don't know what to do, right?

I, unfortunately, was on the opposite side, which my story, I do help a lot of people and tons of people reach out to me that are just hopeless and, like, you know, feel like there's no hope. No, no chance of redemption, right? So those are the people I get to reach, but she gets to reach the people that are really hurting. And so I'm grateful that you gave her to that platform and the opportunity to share her story. Yeah, I think her episode helped me a lot to put things into perspective because I interview people like yourself all the time, but we don't hear the stories, the other end of the stories, you know? And I think it's important that they get a voice equally and get a platform too, which is why like when it came about because I saw her TikTok sharing the story.

then I saw your wife's TikToks and kind of pieced everything together. I don't necessarily form an opinion, you know, up front about anything because I got to stay neutral and invited her on the show. And then you reached out and now we have you on the show. And I think it would have been wrong for me if I told you like, no, you can't come on the show because then that's not fair as a journalist or getting both sides. But with that being said, did you grow up in California? Yeah, so I grew up in Northern California, born and raised.

I had 17 high schools. By the time I was kicked out of high school, 17 schools. So all in California, there was like a nine-month stint that I did in Tampa, Florida. Football purposes, my grandparents lived out there and wanted to get me out of where I was. And so that was like the theme. Anytime get in trouble or, you know, family situations like, you know, go to grandparents or biological father, mom, dad, stepdad. But yeah, born in Petaluma, where Ryan grew up as well, and then moved up to Lake County, which is like hour and a half north of Petaluma, so two hours north of San Francisco, and just kind of back and forth and still live out there now. And who did you grow up with? I know you just mentioned a stepfather and your biological dad, who was in the picture, and if you had any siblings too. Yeah, so I have four, five siblings, three, three sisters.

two brothers, mixed family, right? But grew up for the most part, you know, until I was like 9, 10 with my grandparents. My mom was 17. She was young. She was a child when she had me. And, you know, but there's times where I'd go back and forth with her and my stepdad.

She was, she mirrored my stepdad who I look at as my father. I've been that consistent role model in my life since day one. And then my dad, my real dad, and it just was back and forth. So, but primarily younger age, grandparents, and then high school on my parents until I was my junior year after football season. I was, yeah, kicked out of school. And so then I kind of went off on my own and tried to figure out life. What do your parents do for work? Dad's a stepdad's a contractor.

My real dad was a mover, a bunch of different things, but primarily he owned a moving company, did moving his whole life. My mom's did a bunch of things, had a daycare for a long time, had a cleaning service. Now they're all kind of retired and, yeah, slowing down. Did you guys struggle for money when you were growing up? I want to say that like, so Lake County, where I spent from fifth grade on through high school, most of that, was in Lake County. It's one of the poorest county or communities in California.

It used to be known as the meth capital of California and had the highest you like this fact, the highest parole numbers per per capita, the highest amount of parolees in that county. And so growing up in that environment, like, you know,

we had money. But like reality of it is, is my mom and dad were never home. we didn't have nice cars, like we had decent cars. So I would say lower middle class is how I probably grew up. And in that town, like middle class for sure. I mean, I remember, you know, going to friends' house and they're like living in red-tagged homes, you know, that's been condemned. But like that's where they still live, right? And a lot of friends like that in that area.

How do you describe yourself as a kid? um rambunctious uh always getting into mischief right just like uh but you know typical wild you know young wild little boy um and then super athletic um super athletic lots of friends um and then in school uh class clown you know kind of mischief you know get into mischief uh lots of detentions referrals I don't like minimizing anything, but we're talking when I was a kid. None of it was crazy serious. A lot of it just was stupid like, hey, like, I want attention. You know what I mean?

I'm immature, so like I'm going to do this, right? But athletic was like, being an athlete was like the most important thing when I was younger. Hey, all, before we jump more into today's episode, I need your help. If you're watching on YouTube, make sure to like, comment, and subscribe. Let me know your thoughts in the comments about today's show. And great news, you can now comment on Spotify episodes too. So drop a comment and a review and let me know what you think of the episode. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, a rating and review goes a long way in helping us grow.

Also, quick shout out to Factor. They're offering an exclusive deal 50% off your first box plus free shipping when you use Code Factor Podcast at Factor Meals.com slash Factor Podcast. You'll hear more about that later in the episode. Hope you guys enjoy today's show. If we asked any of your classmates back then, if they would ever expect you to be the one to go to prison, what do you think they would say?

If we asked them back then, not now. I think you'd get a mix. If I was being honest, I think you'd get a mix. I think I didn't do drugs. I wasn't the one drinking and smoking weed or doing anything, like, especially in high school. Like, I definitely went to parties and that type of stuff. But so it'd be mixed.

I imagine a lot of them would say, like, we thought he'd go off and play college sports and do something like that. But, and then there's probably a lot of them that would say, like, yeah, we could, you know, we could have seen that. Probably not for what I went to prison for. And that's the reality. Like, I knew as I got older. And the choice I was making my life, I knew prison was coming.

I didn't ever think I was going to go to prison for taking someone's life. Did addiction run in your family at all? My biological father, Frank, yeah. He still struggles. He's clean now. But like I think that addictive personality, for sure, it's in the genes. And then, but as far on his side, like, I don't, he grew up in foster care.

So like I don't know a lot of my, beyond him. And like one aunt, I don't really know, no many of that, many of the people on that side of the family. What did a young Brandon want to be when he grew up? Athlete. Like the hopes and dreams was always to be a pro athlete. You know, I was always the best or if one of the best on the baseball field and football field, no doubt I would have probably went on and played college at some level.

for sure probably probably a d1 athlete and then you know sports is weird right like you know once you get to that level it's it's kind of just a luck of the draw right now it's a little different because all the exposure you could get through social media and recruiting and stuff but definitely would have went on and played college right

that was my hopes and dreams but unfortunately I realize you know, 13, 14, 15, like, what comes with being a pro athlete? You know, the women, the money, the cars, the homes, the lavish lifestyle. So that started being, became really attractive, which led me to making some of the choices I might later on in life. What do you think was the first choice you made that didn't get you to that college athlete? So one, obviously reflecting back, right, like not taking the education part serious.

I kind of had, it was smaller town. So like the coaches, the coaches had a lot of influence, right? So I was able to get away with the lot because I played football because I played baseball, as some of the other athletes were too, right? And so there wasn't a lot of accountability. And, you know, I wasn't forced to, like, study. I've always been, you know, so much smart, right? I could, you know, get passing grades if I had to.

But I also didn't have to do a lot of work, right, if I'm being completely honest. So obviously, to answer your question, not taking the education side of things serious. And then the other part, like the pivotal moment in my life was, when the principal's like, you know, I want you to do homeschool, called me in his office. He's just tired of seeing me. There was some other drama going on with the administration. And he just was tired to see me in his office. And he's like, you need to do the rest of your junior year at home, right?

And get it together and you come back. And he gave me an opportunity to come back. But at 16, 17 years old, like, I just heard no school, which meant no sports, which also. meant like, you know, my parents worked all day. So it's like if I was at home, like, you know, I would be by myself. And so school is also like a sense of community, right? Have fun. And but I made the choice. Like no school, no sports. Like I'm out of here. And I remember walking out of that principal's office and I had a decision to make, right? figure out this plan of homeschool and getting it together and coming back and finishing out my senior year

or what I did is like screw it I'm a man I know everything I'm 16 I think it was almost 17 I know everything got a driver's license I'm walking out to my car right and like I'm going to be a man And that was the moment that like, you know, the clock started taking for me to land in a jail cell. Do you think your parents or your mom and stepdad were strict enough on you as a kid? And not to put blame, but just as a reflection. So this is a great question because while I was inside, I worked with a lot of guys who were serving life in prison. And as you've probably heard, when you're a lifer in prison, you got to go to a parole board. and like have two hours to speak to your entire existence and own everything in order to get maybe

get them to say, yeah, like, we'll release you. You have to like pin everything down. Not excuses, like an accountability way. And a lot of people get caught up on this question you just asked. Like, were your parents strict enough or were, you know, was this their fault, essentially? I would say that my parents did the best they could. They were gone all day long. So, like, they could tell me, like, hey, stay home, right? But, like, if there's dirt bikes in the garage and, like, yeah, my dad would take the spark plugs out, but, like, we'll figure out how to get a new spark plug and put gas in the tank to go dirt bike riding, right? And so, like, they did their best. And I think they, you know, they just, they didn't, they didn't know.

And I was, like, I was diagnosed with ADHD. I don't really think, like, nowadays I don't buy into that. But I was, doctors wanted to prescribe me with Ritalin and all those, the medications that they give kids with ADHD. That lasted a few months. And then I remember my stepdad. I was like, no, like, this is not cool. Like, you know, all the side effects and stuff that would come with it. So I was really rambunctious.

And in all my sit, my younger brothers are the same kind of way. Like, it takes extra level of care and attention to keep up with them. but you know at the same time like no they weren't strict enough right um but they did their best i think right and in reality of it is i know that they probably carry a lot of guilt right um i see her mom's very supportive of you now she's always been that person right like she's always been the person right like right or wrong she's going to have your back and then she'll talk to you after right kind of like your best friends are supposed to you know like that belief, you know, uh, we're gonna, we're, we're in it together, but we'll, you know,

if you're wrong, like, I'm going to ride with you, but we'll deal with it later. Mom's always been that way, um, today. Um, you know, she's still, I mean, she's, she's got frustrated and, and made comments to Heather on social media and like, I don't agree with it. And, and we have conversations, but at the end of the day, like, my mom's my mom and, and I stand behind her, right? Because she's, she's, she's, she's, she's her own person and she's my mom and we'll have conversations on how to do things better and she's always done that with me.

Unfortunately, like for the longest time, I was just too stubborn to where it didn't matter what anybody said. I was going to do what I was going to do until I was forced to like do what the state told me to do. Yeah, I think, you know, seeing your mom's comments on my YouTube video with Heather and just like the reposts and stuff. You know, it's interesting because I feel for that because I see when people who have been accused

of like very heinous crimes, even with children or whatever, their parents will still, you know, stand by them because that's what your job is as a parent. Like if I did something, my dad would still, you know, stand by me and show me love, you know? And obviously there are some parents out there that will just cut the kid off.

But for the most part, most parents will stand by, you know? And it takes kind of looking at the bigger picture to understand why they do the things that they do as a parent. Yeah. And like I said, we, it's been a rough few months, right? Like the whole social media, the TikTok, right, all of it, right? And once again, I put myself here, right? Like nobody, you know, I chose to make decisions.

I chose to take Ryan's life. There's no excuses. I got out. I chose to have a public page, right? And there's reasons. I have reasons behind it. And, you know, with my mom making comments, she's been attacked, right? And she's just been trying to be a mom and doing what she knows best, right?

And loving her son. And she sees who I am today. She knows of my heart. And so there's been a lot of things that's been said about her as me that aren't true. But like, it doesn't matter because I put myself here. And so whatever comes with that, we're going to just deal with it. And as a believer, right, I am a Christian. I do believe God there is redemption.

And that's why I'm here today. I just got to take it, right? And understand that, like, this is the world we live in. I put myself here and hope that one, hopefully one day, like, there can be, as you've said, some type of closure and there could be something that's super impactful. And most importantly, like lives changed. People are not going down the road that myself or Ryan went down. Tell us about your life, you know, between the time you got out of high school and

leading up to the actual incident of what happened that night. Tell us that in between. I read some articles that you might have been on parole or on probation. Yeah. Give us, give the audience of view of who you were. at that time period before it happened. So just painting a picture, right? Like the only place, like, I knew my parents loved me.

I knew my family loved me. But they were very busy, right? Like validation, the most I ever felt validated, which every human needs that validation, needs accepting needs to feel belonging, was on the baseball and football field when I was playing sports. When I had that brotherhood, And I had, you know, the coaches.

That's the beauty about coaches. We might not listen to parents. You get dropped off out of practice. Coach tells the kid to do anything. It's done. Like, I love that. And that's where, like, that's where I felt at home. And so when I was, you know, no longer in school, no longer doing sports, I was searching.

I didn't know who I was. My validation was 100% as a baseball player or football player, you know, in high school. And so with that, I had these desires to, like, have nice cars, have money, have women, because that dream that I was holding on to of being a pro athlete, that's what they had. And so you put, you know, a young teenager seeking, you know, searching for validation and purpose and has these worldly desires. Like, and he lives in a place where everybody's growing weed or selling meth or cooking dope, right? Like, and it's a small thing. town and like everybody knows everybody, I quickly, he's like, okay, like, I'm going to, like,

figure out how to have those nice cars and make money, right? And, and so within months of, um, walking out of that principal's office, I like was already like going with, you know, there's some guys that called themselves the pot pirates, right? And like, we'd go steal, you know, rip off, you know, some pot farms. And then, you know, it led to like trying to grow my own weed. And then, you know, party and a lot of partying, right? Now we got a little bit of money. And so, like, you know, all the people that weren't really doing things going off to college, like everybody would party every night of the week. And, you know, cocaine came into my life.

And it was just a little bit of everything. And I ended up, like, right around 18. There was a girl that I was dating and ended up cheating on her getting a huge argument. I was young, right? Not that that's an excuse. but getting in an argument and the cops were called. And so boom, handcuffs are on me. I'm being arrested for domestic violence.

And I actually, she had a relationship with my mom. My mom knew that I had cheated on her. And so she's calling and yelling at my mom thinking like, you know, back to my mom always had my back. And so I ripped the phone out of the wall, right? And there was like a Pepsi can that got through. thrown off the table. And so like we were arguing. I was packing up all my stuff. So the house was destroyed. Cops came. She was on probation. Right. And so they automatically did a search and

seizure. And I'm not saying this is just the story. Right. I'm arrested for domestic violence, right? Just dissuading a witness tampering with the phone lines. There was like three charges. I'm scared to death. Right. Like never had handcuffs on me. Right. Going to jail. Typical public defender core system, right? Like just plea out, no contest, just fall off your record. They told me everything I wanted to hear as long as I wasn't going to do any time

in jail and probation. So boom, now I'm on probation, 18 years old, right? There's a lot of things I did in that situation, but I didn't smack Stephanie, my girlfriend at the time. But boom, I'm 18 on probation. And so how to do community service, do some domestic violence,

classes did none of it. And still living this lifestyle. Now things are increasing, right? Like we're, you know, getting deeper in growing weed and, you know, doing a lot of, you know, selling weed all over, right? Had a DUI around, you know, 19, 21, I had my first DUI. But it was just this cons, this revolving door, right? Like from the time I was 17, almost 17, to get that domestic violence.

At that time, I wasn't doing a lot of partying, right? I was doing it, but I still was in this relationship. So kind of thinking back on it. But then I moved back down to the Bay Area from Lake County. And so now there's, you know, clubs and bars. And, you know, we're half hour from San Francisco, making more money, traveling. and just seeking validation. It's all like, you know, you have a party, people come hang out with you, you get validated, right?

You don't have the money, you don't have the party, like no one shows up, that type of thing, right? And fast forward, got DUI, got another situation with another girl I was dating, end up doing six, four months, did six months, did four months on six months. For that, that I did. It was a domestic violence. We were downtown at the bars. I ended up getting a fight with one of her guy friends. We left there. She was driving.

We were in a small town. She pulls over and unfortunately this girl's passed. She's passed away. She's overdosed during my incarceration. And so it's hard even speaking about it, right? But she pulls over in this neighborhood and just making this big scene, screaming and yelling. And so I grabbed her and put her in the car. like, you know, completely wrong, right, but end up getting charged for domestic violence for that.

And, you know, pled guilty because obviously what they said I did, I did, and did four months. And so during that time, I kind of, four months removed from like that type of lifestyle, it was healthy. And so I got out and tried to do good, but it was only a matter of time that, like, that lifestyle. the money and the clubs and, and, you know, wanted to always go, go, go. Um, kick back into gear and,

uh, I'm on probation, right? Uh, and things are just escalating in the sense of like, the life, life got so chaotic, right?

Around this time, um, I met, that's when I met Ryan. It was like 2000, middle of 2011. Uh, I want to say,

I met Ryan. through a mutual friend. There's actually a handful of friends that we had that were mutual. Started, you know, hanging out with him a little bit. We both had, you know, interest in selling weed and had the same contacts and same people, right? And so started kicking it, right? And somewhere right in that time, I ended up getting arrested, not charged for anything. It was like drunken public out at the lake.

And my probation officer at the time was like, hey, like, you need to go to a program. You need to go do something. At the same time, I had other people in my life. Ryan was, I believe, one of them, but there were some other older influences in my life. That was like, dude, like, you're great when you're sober. But like, you're a mess when you're partying, right? And really a lot of the actual words was like, dude, your liability. Like everybody that I was hanging around at the time had some type of criminal activity going on, right?

To some extent. And so, you know, me party and drinking, you know, doing all the dumb things I'm doing, like, that's a liability when you're living that type of lifestyle. And so they all including this parole probation officer is like, hey, you need to get some help. You need to clean it up. So back to motives, right? I'm like, okay, like don't want to go to jail. I like the idea of getting clean, but it's also like means I wasn't ready to give up this whole lifestyle, but let's do something. And so I committed to a program called Victory Outreach was religious recovery home for men, church base.

And I committed for a year. And so this was, I would say, June or July of 2011. Are you stuck in a takeout rut? You think it's convenient, but do you actually enjoy it? I used to order takeout all the time, thinking I was saving time, but it was always expensive, hit or miss, and honestly, not that great. Then I found Factor. The other night, I had their shredded chicken taco bowl, and let me tell you, it was better than anything I would have gotten from delivery. The flavors were on point.

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Don't wait, get started today. Now let's get back into today's episode. Now when you say partying where you were doing drinking and drugs? Yeah, like lots of drinking and cocaine, Molly, you know what I mean, didn't really get into like anything beyond that. Cocaine and Molly was recreational any time we were drinking, right? Definitely Friday, Saturdays, sometimes maybe once or twice during the week. It was that type of lifestyle, right? So you do this program?

What happens? So I commit to a year. They wanted you to commit for a year. It was down in Southern California. You get there. turn in your phone, all that stuff. Within the first couple days, I realized everybody has their phones. They got, like, they're doing their own program.

So I'm like, oh, I could do the same thing. And just started trying to work the program. And within three weeks, I was like, yeah, I'm done. Like, you know, I'm going to stay sober because I like, like, working out in this, you know, being clean and sober. But I was done, right? And so I left, left the program. I think I did just under 30 days. Went back.

This was down in Southern California. Went back home up north. And right back to, you know, doing a lot of middleman stuff with weed, right? We were shipping a lot of weed out here to the East Coast, out to Florida. Had a couple little grow operations going. But I was sober. And life was good, right? Like, for me at the time, it was good because I was sober.

I didn't have a bunch of extra headaches, right? Just the fact that, like, the feds could come get you at any time because you're going to the U.S. Postal, you know, post office, you know, throwing 20 pounds in boxes and doing that every day, right? So there was that stress that, you know, to it. But I was sober. I was clean. So I wasn't, you know, create anything more. fast forward the night everything happened we all went out to so

a little bit of context into that me and Ryan he had end up moving up to Nevada County right Lake the Pines where everything happened after his divorce right yeah so the divorce I don't know all like

I've heard stories I've never met Heather, right? And I know that was, they were separated. But like when I met Ryan, Heather wasn't in his life. Like they weren't dating. It was, you know, his kid's mom, right? And that's how he referred to her. And I remember, you know, him always, you know, wanted to, to,

he had things going on in his life, right? And he wanted to get stability, right? Get a home and get things so he could. you know, have the boys in his life. And she acknowledges that he battled with addiction to around this time period as well. Yeah. And in his addiction, it was a little bit different. He, you know, there was like norcos and pain kills.

A little bit of alcohol, but, you know, steroids lifting weights, right? But like me, he really didn't get into the Coke and the Molly. And, you know, from my memory, you know, maybe a beer or two, but it wasn't really alcohol, right? It was, it was other stuff, but it didn't really show to me. Like, I never really, like, I knew he, he did his old thing, but it wasn't, didn't seem like that was the thing that was holding him back. It was just trying to get back on his feet.

How often would you see him? I mean, we've seen each other all the time. I helped move the U-Haul up to, drove the U-Haul and moved him into his house. Like I had a bunch of grow equipment and we turned that house into a grow operation. So you guys were friends. We were friends and partners in that. And then him and Chris, who was like his best friend, they had got a warehouse, like a big warehouse right around the corner from the house they were living and was growing weed in there. So I had a bunch of contacts as Ryan did.

And so I would help get rid of the weed that they'd be grown. and then I also had a little bit of, I guess you would say equity because some of the equipment was my equipment, right? So we were partners, we were also friends, so we were together all the time. And I mean, I remember, and this is like, the reason why I love that baseball program at San Quentin is because one of the, like, and it wasn't much,

but I remember I was at the Chase Bank in San Rosa by Coddingtown Mall, right? and for anybody listening, and I'm just getting context to the people who know. And Ryan, the boys were, I think it was Little League. It was Little League. It was baseball. And he needed to, he needed a wire. I think it was Heather.

He needed money in his bank to be able to help pay for registration and cleats and gloves, whatever they needed. And so we were talking. He's like, hey, dude, can you drop some money in my bank account? You know, I need to get Heather. I think, I assumed, I don't remember him saying Heather. I assumed it was Heather because it was for the boys for Little League. And so I hold on to that memory because when I got to a prison where they had a baseball field,

I'd be out there like all the time and just remembering like I took the father from these two boys, right? Like, and I'd play this picture of them out playing on this Little League field without their dad in the stands because of me. because of my selfishness, because my fear of reaching out and asking for help because I knew I had an addiction, right? So we were friends, right? Like Ryan was a good dude.

I had tons of love and respect for him. I looked up to him in a lot of ways. He was older than me. He had a successful plumbing company, right? He wasn't actively running it at the time we were hanging out, but we were also like fully invested in this, this weed industry, right? And it wasn't legal back in 2012. Like, it was legal to a certain extent,

but how we were doing it was not legal. Now, were you on the run from parole at this point? So, yeah, so leaded up to that. So about two weeks, two or three weeks before everything happened. So like late January, early February, 2012, I got pulled over, me and my partner who got pulled over on her heartily's in Oakland. And CHP pulled us over, didn't get a ticket. And didn't think nothing of it. At the time, I'm swapping pro-off, or probation officers. My probation officer who I had who was like, probably should have had me go to jail a

bunch, right? If I'm being honest, like we, I knew people who knew her and we manipulated the system to the fullest, right? And I didn't ever go to jail or get any violations. because she, you know, you can look out a couple ways. She believed that eventually I'd figured out or two. Like she just, you know, let me do my thing, right? Favoritism, I guess.

She got promoted, so I got a new probation officer. I'm trying to contact this lady to like make, you know, make contact with her. She's obviously busy and there's been like two weeks. And so then next thing you know, about a week after I get pulled over on my Harley, I get a call. I'm thinking and she introduced herself. I'm like, oh, like, finally like return my call. She's like, no, you got pulled over, didn't you?

In Oakland? I was like, yeah. So you're going to have to turn yourself in. I'm like, didn't get like, I didn't get a ticket. Didn't, I didn't do nothing. She said, yeah, but that was police contact. And so I don't know how your parole or probation was with you, but like probation and parole technically, you're not supposed to have any police contact.

And if you do, you have to. report it or it's a violation. And so, you know, you can look at it, you know, like there's a big gray area there. And so she's like, well, you're going to have to turn yourself in. Like I was reviewing your, your caseload. And like, I think you need to be set down for a minute. Like, she basically tells me I need to turn myself in to go to jail. And I was like, I remember telling telling her like, that's not happening. I'll see you when I see you. And so now like this, this mindset shifted of like now I'm on the run right and not not on the run from anything crazy at the worst it'd be like a county year in jail right like do two thirds of a year but at the time like that's

a long time like you don't want to be you know removed from the streets for a night let alone you know nine months um but like i don't think that played a big part into what happened right i'm still sober you know doing you know i'm sober at the time February 22nd 23rd the day before. I was back and forth that whole week because there was a harvest that was happening. So people were trimming there and we're trying to get everything, you know, trimmed up and done all the weed. And I went up that morning or the day before, spend the night and we woke up the next morning. And like it didn't look like everything was going to be done.

And I remember me and Ryan driving to the gym that morning. and he was like, I was going to go back and then just come back to, you know, come back up to see him when everything was done. It's like, no, they'll get it done. Just hang out. Let's stay up here, right? We're going to have it. We'll have a good time tonight.

And, you know, end up going back, getting through the day. And we all went out to Applebee's that night. And I remember everybody ordering drinks, right? And I was at the end, the little round tables. everybody's going around and I remember this conversation I'm having with myself internally. Like, don't do it, Brandon. Don't do it. Like, one, you know.

And then I literally told myself like, hey, what the heck? One drink isn't going to hurt nobody. Right. And obviously, like that one drink led to us going to Safeway. You get a bunch of more alcohol going back to the house. And this is the thing that sucks, right? because like I don't I don't remember taking Ryan's life like physically taking his life. I've done hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands.

I've done a lot of reflecting and a lot of therapy and sat a lot of groups talking about this night. And anybody who knows like how therapy works, like our minds block things out, you know, I mean as a defense mechanism. And like there's more clarity. I'm to a place where like, now I'm, you know, I know what I know. And a lot of it was also reading through all the reports and hearing what everybody had to say, not to mention Chris Philson, who was Ryan's best friend, he was at San Quentin

with me. So I was, like, locked up with him who was there the whole time and seen everything. Right. And, like, we were sober in San Quentin and, like, had, you know, a month of just talking. And not a month, but like, there's the first few days when we, you know, we were, we're bunked in the same housing unit. Like we had, we had some talking to do. Right.

Like he was, he hated me. And so like that time with Chris helped me understand a lot more of what actually happened that night, right? Because I was, you know, for the most part, blacked out. But drinking. And then I smoked some weed. and we just always made me paranoid, right? Like once I quit, like there's a couple times,

like I tried smoking. But what really got me is one of the girls had pulled out some Coke. And this is kind of where, like, things started getting weird. No one else was doing Coke. I did the Coke. And like, next thing you know,

like, I'm really like, what's up with this, right? And, like, just, like, super paranoid. And like, like, it felt like, like everybody was laughing at me, right? And like, jokes on me. And so, like, I remember, I remember before everything happened, right? And it felt like it was a lifetime. But reality of it is, it could have been a half hour, could have been an hour. I don't really recall how long it was from, like, when I smoked a little bit of weed and did some of the Coke. But it seemed like a lifetime. But I remember, like, feeling like this, like,

like this isn't this is the you know bad vibes right like kind of intuition like brandon like you're messed up like you need to get out of here but then it's like you know you know everybody's gonna laugh at like where are you going to go one like it's you know it's not like we were in area where there's a hotel and like you're in a gated community out of the mountains um and uh but then like you know Heather talked about like me going into the room because her and Ryan were, you know, conversating on the phone. And like, Ryan was in the room the whole time, like, you know, arguing or conversating with, uh, with Heather. And like, he was the only one I trusted at the house. Right. And I kept going back to him. Like, bro, like, I'm tripping. Like, what's up

with these people? Right? Because like, I didn't know the tremors. Right. I knew Chris. The girls I, I knew a little bit too, but like not, I didn't know any of them. to a place where like I trusted them. And then I remember like Ryan and part of this actually like was listening and once again reading testimonies hearing from Chris and then, you know, listening to Heather's podcast, right? Like yeah, like that was me, you know, drunk and like get barging into the room like Ryan, come on, Ryan, right? And it was like, I'm trying to figure out like what's going on here.

And so, and then it just became like a blur and blur and blur. And Ryan eventually came out and was chilling on the couch. I'm still like, you know, ramble, walking around the house, rambling and said something to Ryan. And, you know, this is the part of that sucks, right? Because like, Ryan didn't deserve to have his life taken. No one did. Right? but I was so messed up.

Like I was so like just belligerent blacked out. That like I wasn't in control myself. Right. And then Ryan, I think, was so frustrated and like, you know, had to do something. And, you know, you look at testimonies. There was one person, two people that said like it looked like he had reached for the knife. And then there was two people that said it looked like it looked like. like he had, you know, out of a defense position had punched me.

And so whatever it was, right, like that just triggered me into, and that's where I just lost memory of everything. Did, do you remember if he confronted you about anything or if you confronted him about anything? That never happened. Did you confront him about anything? No. So there was, right, like there was some rumors, right, that were flowing around. and we had talked about that stuff,

but like that wasn't, that wasn't why any of that happened. And the whole Manny situation, like Manny got robbed of cash and weed. Like, you don't call the cops. There's no fingerprints taken, right? Like, I don't know where that came up with, but like that was not, like, I'm just setting that stone

and I'm not trying to fit myself, but that wasn't why any of this happened. So just to set the record straight, Ryan didn't die because he confronted you over a robbery and Ryan didn't die because you confronted him about anything. No. Like it was flat out me just being a drunken idiot, right? And we were told, right, that that Coke had bas salts. It was laced with bas salts or cut with bas salts. Unfortunately, by the time they did a talk, it was after, I want to say it was after 30 days and it had to be done urine.

And so like when they figured out that there was potentially basaltz in it and they tested my system, like they didn't have any proof of that. But the two girls that had it ended up reaching out somehow they figured out. And I want to say that they did we did a live prelim, which is like a practice, you know, kind of a run up to a trial. And that was brought out in it, right? That they believe that there was bas it was code with basalts, right? So once again, this isn't an excuse. But like, we all know like what, you know, bass salts does to people and you've heard the stories. Like, I wasn't me.

I was like, I was out of my mind. And the only thing that I could, you know, kind of come to my mind about is like I'm sitting here being an idiot, right? talking loud, being belligerent, right, drunk, wasted out of my mind and rambling a bunch of stuff. And I do, like, I don't remember me saying like, I'm not going to go back. But like, that makes sense. Like, dude, we were living in, like, we were at a weed operation, weed house, right? Warehouse around the corner. Every other day we're going to the post office shipping weed across the country.

Like, there's a level of paranoia gist in that before the drugs and alcohol come. Right? Like, you're going to get locked up. Like, you're going to, like, any day, like, you could, you know, the feds come crashing down or the police for sure any day. So, like, I'm just saying, like, there's context to the mindset, right? And then you put all this stuff in my system, you know, and I'm, you know, Ryan's over on the couch. And, you know, he probably got fed up and fired on me or reached out. Whatever he did, like, triggered me. Yeah, I mean, from an outsider's perspective, some type of argument happened, right?

Because otherwise you would have attacked someone else. Yeah, well, like, you know, and I kept going to him. And once again, this is me trying to put everything together and have some type of understanding, right? Like, I have to do that just for myself. And when I was, you know, completely wasted and not met, you know, I don't remember most of it. on my own accord. Like, as I said, reading everything, hearing different stories. You know, I was over, you know, talking to Ryan, right?

And I wasn't talking. Like, there was no talking. It was me being loud, like animated, right? And I know for myself, there's been times. Like, I've been out of the clubs and partying in the days. And, like, drunk people come and, like, make you feel uncomfortable when you just fire on them. Like, I've been that guy. Like, I see it all the time.

Like, you owned a club, right? I'm sure you've seen that. I hate when drunk people are around me. Right? So, like, I was that drunk person. Right? And, you know, like, if we're just trying to, like, analyze and figure out, like, you know, obviously it didn't seem like Ryan and Heather had, you know, had a good conversation.

So I'm sure, you know, I know he was, you know, ups and downs. Like he's trying to get back on his feet. you know, wants his kids. And then I'm like in his face rambling around being an idiot. You know what I mean? After hearing Heather's interview, do you have more of a sense of like, I would say, feeling and reflection on what happened that night? Kind of understanding it better, kind of seeing where some of her anger has come from. Maybe, you know, her hearing your version of events on previous podcasts or whatnot?

I mean, like I said, you know, I've probably, I have, not probably. There's been times where I've said some stuff that could be insensitive, right? It's a defense mechanism, right? Like this stuff is uncomfortable to talk about, right? And like, there's been times, right, where I've been on podcasts, right? and, you know, there's been a lot, right? And this is something that, like, I have to remind myself, why I do it and what my motives are, right?

And sometimes you just get in it. It's just like, it's a thing. And so there's been a bunch of them, right, to where I'm like, you know, what are when Ryan's boys see this, if they see this, right? Like, how are they going to feel? right most of the time though right like um i'm you know i'm trying to to help give give hope and redemption to the people who are in my similar shoes right so um to say that like i there's more

feeling right like the feeling that i've always had was validated and that's that like heather's still holding a like i hurt them there's still a lot of pain and resentment, which rightfully so, I could tell you right now that even if I was a Christian, like, you know, and just, you know, the Sunday, the Sunday church Christian, right, and didn't really have that solid relationship with the creator, I probably would never be able forgive someone who took, you know, took someone I loved in a way that I did, right? So like I fully understand it and get it. Watching it, the biggest thing that I took out of it was like,

it was just a reminder of that pain because, you know, back to not, you know, I know we're going back and forth, but like since Thanksgiving, I've had like thousands and thousands of people like reaching out. Like, you know, I hope to, I hope that little one year old baby of yours gets, you know, brutally murdered and stabbed 18 times and like all this stuff coming death threats. right I for the long not for the long time for a little bit um you know you for safety purposes and just making sure like you know what's going on like you'll go read the comments even though everybody tells me not to but at the same time like when people are making threats you got to

you got to be mindful you know I was involved you know I made it through almost 11 years in prison because I was highly aware right and you know when you see these some of these comments of like oh, like, we're going to get them. And Heather's like, you know, calming back or like giving the thumbs up, right? Like that stuff's hard, right? But in like you get a little frustrated. But at the end of the day, like I did this to myself, right? And like a 100% understand where Heather's coming from.

And I just hope that like I hope that at the end of this, right, there's nothing I could say. There's nothing I could do or say on a podcast. right or even in a conversation that's going to bring Ryan back right someone once told me true that it was this lifer who who was in prison with me I always ask them I'm a man like you never talk right like you're never he's like Brandon like why do I need to talk true remorse has lived out in action and it dawn it's like it's absolutely true right like I could apologize or I could take complete ownership in this, which I have. Like, no one's, like, I've never once said, like, I didn't do it or, you know,

Ryan deserved that or anything like that. I've always taken accountability. I've always said that, like, you know, and there's podcasts out there, and I've definitely shared it when I'm doing advocacy stuff. Like, I was completely blessed in the way sentencing came out, right? Like, if I was anything other than that. than a white dude, I would have received a life sentence in that county, right? You know, there's all kinds of rumors about, like, I got this high-powered crazy attorney.

Like, I got lucky and got a guy who, like, actually, like, did time in the feds and pleaded poverty. He was actually the dude who did time and then helped get minimum wage for some of the federal guys or help increase the labor rates for federal inmates. And like he, it wasn't a bunch of money. And my parents didn't ever take a mortgage out. They were renters at the time. Right.

So like there was just, I got lucky, got a decent attorney for a pretty cheap price for for what I was being charged with. But at the end of the day, like, you know, I was given a second chance, right? The prosecutors, like everybody like looked at what it was. Obviously they came up with their. their sentence, their judgment. But at the end of the day, like, nothing I could do. I could sit in prison for the rest of my life.

Some people would be happy. But Ryan's not coming back. But what I do is every day I wake up, I'm like, how can I help someone else? And I didn't just come to that, right? Like, I struggled in prison. Like, I was sober for three years. After taking Ryan's life, I'm like, man, like, never again. Am I going to do alcohol or drugs again, right?

like, you know, get to San Quint three and a half years, four years later, drugs and everything's everywhere, right? Like, it's almost easier to get alcohol and drugs in there than it is on the streets, right? Um, and I relapse. And I ended up finding myself doing almost a year in the shoe, picked up more time. Um, and that's, and I was put in the adjustment center, which is the hole for death throw or at the time when death row was still going. This was the housing unit that.

the worst of the worst, like all the mafia dudes, all the highest, like the high power dudes on death row go. And what I believe is God made sure that I went to a place so quiet to where I could finally hear from him and finally look myself in the mirror and own everything and commit to doing something better. Right. And from that day forward, like, I'm still a work in progress. But I looked in the mirror. And from that day forward, you know, I've sat in 100. and hundreds and hundreds of groups,

hundreds of hours of therapy sessions. And I got to a place where like, well, I could help other people. Probably 40 or 50 guys, over 50 guys, you know, I indirectly or directly helped who are serving life in prison find freedom. None of those guys have went home. They're all helping, you know, at-risk youth and helping the community, right? because of whatever everything that's happened right like I've figured out how to like just put action and do and help people right and so like that's you know I have a a text message right I'm just

going to read it to you right here um so this is the first year I came out it was the die before Thanksgiving my phone rings I'm on parole I'm out like three or four months I get out September This is night before Thanksgiving. My phone rings. I respond back. I said, who is this? Because it was the number I'd know. He said it was Chase Roth.

My heart dropped. It was Ryan's son. I mean, at Safeway, getting food for Thanksgiving. And immediately, like, there was so many emotions, but it was an answer of prayer. Because every single day, I prayed for his family. I prayed for those two boys. I say their name. I say Heather's name.

I say Geraldine's name. He got so many other family. and friends, like, I can't say their name, so I just say his family and friends. And I pray for them, right? And I prayed, and I continue to pray that somehow God takes this mess that I created and turns it into something that's going to help people, right? And so he's like, it's Chase Roth. He's like, I'm not coming to hurt you. That won't change anything. I text you ask that since we live in the same town and we're nearby, if we ever cross path, that's just came up. keep a friendly distance.

He said, I appreciate that. And I hope you can help someone else. Or I hope you can help someone before they go down that same path you did. Right. That message, there are times where we live in a world, right? You got the world's coming at you so many different ways. We all want to like, you know, go up, elevate. But I hope you can help someone before they go down.

that path. That's from Ryan's son. Right. That's what drives me. Right. I don't, you know, put the words together to the best sometimes. And I could say something insensitive, right? A lot of times it's a defense mechanism. It's my own insecurities. But I can tell you when I wake up every day, it's like, what can I do to help someone? How can I help someone from going and committed murder? How can I help, you know, a young kid get out of a gang? How can I help? You know, a young kid get out of a gang. how can I help men who are coming home, right? 92% of the people locked up in the U.S. are coming home, right? How can I help prepare these guys so there's no more violence and no more harm happening when they come home, right?

And so I hope, like, and that's authentic. Like, I'm not making money. You didn't pay me to come out here, right? Like, I've never, like, never been paid, like, anything when it comes to, like, the story side of it, right? I've had some, some travel stuff taken care of. I've never made anything on,

on sharing this story. The story for me is more of a redemptive story. I never really glamorized life. I think this podcast and I've done one other where we kind of got into like the lifestyle, but it's always like the hope in, in redemption part of it, right? You know,

um, like my heart. heart is is in serving people right because i i committed the most selfish act of human could commit i took another human you can't do anything more selfish than that and so i just look for errors where i could show up and serve san quince three hours away from me i drive a diesel it's a hundred fifty dollars and diesel i go down there a couple times a month on my own you know like my wife i got five kids my wife is like when are you going to be at home Right? Like we're getting ready to launch a residential treatment center rehab for guys on parole and probation.

We're going to make stronger men. We're going to help bring families back. And reality of it is, is if I didn't go to prison and I didn't, you know, go through what I've went through, I wouldn't be here. And so I don't remember exactly what I said. But one of the hardest days, of my life was at sentencing and I had to hear Ryan's family. And then the judge gives me, you know, gives me an opportunity to say something back. And I don't know what I, everything I said, but I said like I'm going to do everything I can to honor Ryan's name and to make something good out of this. Right.

And probably, not probably, I made some mistakes. But I think like I'm doing what I said I was going to do. Right. and I'm not going to stop doing it. You know, I'm not, I'm not trying to offend anybody, but there's people that need to be helped. God's, you know, put me through what I've went through and has made me relatable to a lot of people.

And so I'm going to continue to help them. And I hope Heather, right, and especially those boys. Like those two boys, like, I have some of the best therapists and some of the best access to people that, like, bring, use people to help others. And, like, they've always said, like, whenever we could, you know, whenever, whenever they're ready, we'd love to help intervene. We'd love to help support. But, like, those, those, Heather and those two boys, like, have a powerful story.

And they could help and heal a lot of people. I think her perspective, and this is just from my point. of you and listening to both sides of it is that she because she wasn't technically married him at the time where they were separated she wasn't given a lot of information by the police she was kind of kept in the dark the system's broken bro yeah but that's where i think a lot of her frustrations um come from so you know my two questions on that would be you know one to start with how did you feel in the moments you found out you did what you did what was going through your mind when you're, you know, you have a sober headspace, you're sitting in that jail cell, you're reading all the charges with your attorney, what's going through your mind? When am I going to wake up? Like literally for like weeks, I'd wake up and like, is this a dream? Like, this can't be reality.

There's no way, let alone like Ryan, like no way. And I remember like, you know how it is. they, you know, they wake you up at the buck crack of dawn and in county jail. You're not on a 4 a.m. program, right? You're still, you know, trying to get adjusted. And I'd always go back to sleep, right? And then you wake up at, like, you know, eight or nine, the sun's coming in the little window. And, like, I remember, like, I guess, like, I'm not in jail and, like, look around and, like, this is like, and then I got to a place where, like, yeah, Brandon, you did this.

And I didn't want to live. Like it was the darkest mentally and emotionally, spiritually, the darkest I've ever been in my life. The darkest in, I'm not saying it to, you know, pity party. I deserve that, right? I did it to myself. Like, I was in a dark spot. And, but, you know, there's nothing I could do, right? I do remember, like, those early days.

of being in that clear head space. I committed to like, whether I do life in prison or not, I'm going to help people, right? Live, you know, their best lives through sobriety. I'm going to, you know, start thinking of how I could give back. Obviously, there's still like, I'm still in a dark play, so it was like back and forth. But it was hard, right? Like, it was extremely hard.

And it wasn't until I picked up a Bible and, like, found God. And now for the longest time, I didn't consider myself a Christian. Like, I would just read the Bible and felt good about it. There was, like, this feeling that I would get when I read it. And it was comforting. And so I stuck to it. It wasn't until I was years later in that adjustment center where I really, like, gave myself to God.

But dark place. But the other part of that, what you said is, like, that's why I did the interview in that press Democrat after all the flyers came up um in our town the the press democrat did an article it was on the front page and like he he hit me up like 10 times like I was like dodging his calls and like was praying on it and asking people like what do you think and you know he I talked to him I heard him out and when he said like they were frustrated that like they weren't informed and then like that you came back like they think like you chose to come back to Petaluma and like there's this arrogance of like, oh, like I'll come right back to where I,

you know, where I came from type of thing. And that wasn't the case. Like parole makes you go back in California. Parole makes you go back to your last legal resident. So my legal resident at the time was Petaluma. That's where I had to go back to. In fact, I was at a halfway house six months before I was released in the county that it wasn't in Nevada County, but it was this halfway house, there's this program called MCRP, mail community reentry program. There's four of them in the state. If you're within two years of the house,

you have no arson, no sex crimes, and you meet the security levels. You could go to your last two years here. And like, you're out in the streets, like working and they send me to one because there's one that covers Nevada County. That county, I commit my crime. Well, two of the other qualifying factors

are you have to be a legal resident in that county or counties they serve and then you committed your crime there. So they shot me out to this one thinking like I lived there and I did commit my crime in that county and then 72 days later, they're like, oh, we made a mistake. You're illegal resident in Sonoma County.

Like, you got to go back to prison. So I had to go back to prison for three months. Which, you know, sucked. But like just back to this part is like, I didn't have a choice. I had to go back to Petaluma. Right? Parole wasn't giving me choice.

And I never wanted to go back because I always knew, like, we lived in a small town, right? And, like, I didn't want to go back to a place one. Like, there's obviously, like, I don't want to be in a position with me and my family where, like, something happens and someone gets hurt, right? I have to defend. Like, I don't want any of that. But most importantly, like, I don't want to be in a place where, like, I'm so close

where it continues to, like, harm them emotionally or mentally or whatever, right? And so these posters went up. And another hard time, right? Because, like, reality of it is, I think, all man, all humans, like, you have a fight or flight, right? Like, it's a natural thing. And so it was one of those things where it was like, okay, like, obviously, like, they're not happy with us being here. This journalist reaches out. He explains their frustration.

I said, look, I'm going to do it on one accord. and like in I'll do the interview with you, but like I want advocacy for for exactly what they're saying. Like I don't think there is enough victims advocacy. I don't think there's enough victim support, right? Which like I'm someone that I'm not biased to any side. I want healing for everybody. Right.

And like there isn't. It's like very minimal of the support that the victims' families get in these situations. right like there are groups and support out there but you have to be proactive and you have to search for it. It's like any government assistant like it's out there but you got to go track it down right like they're not going to offer to you and I think in these situations it should be put right there in front of them. And so in that article like I spoke to that like yeah like you know you got a place like San Quinn there's hundreds of programs there for the guys who like committed crimes but like there's you know very little for for the victims and the survivors and their families. And so, like, I am in huge support of that. I don't think that they were taken care of, right, as they should be, right?

And then, like, the restitution thing, like, once again, like, I don't think, I don't think there's a right sentence you could put on, on, you know, a murder or a manslaughter, right? Like, when you take someone's life, like, I don't think a judge could admit. justice and say like, oh, you do six years or you do 30 years or do 12 years. Like I just, I personally don't, don't think like there's a, that's real justice, right? Or there's any fairness in that. How do you, how do you decide, right? Like, but I am extremely blessed and in grateful that I was given a second chance. That's why once again, I take full, full advantage of like trying to help people and give it back.

But the judge like when it came down to the restitution or the district attorney was like because of our criminal activity, because of all the weed and the income that was coming in that was illegally. Like she addressed that. She's like we don't think it's right to put a restitution on here. Right. And because I still don't know how they justify or administer victims restitution, right? It might be like, you know, an annual salary, right? And I don't know. I had a sell you who had a million dollar restitution for he had the same situation.

And he was given like $1.2 million in restitution, right? Which the crazy thing with that is those, his victim's family isn't receiving any of it. He's paying on it, but they're not receiving it. So, like, that's another part of, of that whole, you know, lack of support for the victim's families. But, like, you know, whatever I could do to advocate for all of them, like, I'm going to do it. And I completely understand. And, you know, once again, like, it's my fault, right? And the whole situation is, the whole situation is crappy, bro.

like all as I could do is is continue trying to help people and prevent people from going down this path and you know hope and pray that you know Heather can Heather and that family could get healing and get to a place where you know they could help people right and and at the same time like it is hard right like I mentioned it like it's hard when you're being under attack like really I could deal with it like it sucks but like I could tune it out my wife could tune it out but like when my wife's under attack and like do my wife has been to hell and back like my wife's like horrible domestic violence uh um you know relationship right the kids uh the kids that i just recently adopted like their biological father like kin at the kids pistol whip

gun to my wife's head like she was in a bad marriage and you know she like she chose me because she's seen like transformation right like we knew each other we we we got back in contact um you know and and kind of just you know fell in love and and got married while i was in prison but like she wouldn't to marry me if i was like this animal and this you know domestic abuser right like i did put myself in some bad situations and and hurt a lot of people not more so emotionally and mentally and uh you know physically also but like the fact that she she's under attack, right? Like, I didn't even have a TikTok.

Like, this TikTok that, like, everybody, like, you read the comments. They're like, Brandon's making money on TikTok. I had a TikTok account that I had to, like, follow my kids, right? And I post, like, two posts. My wife's picture, she posted a picture and, you know, it kind of ignited this. Ignited all of this, right? Like, literally the picture was, like, us in a prison visiting room. And it's like, people said I was crazy to wait, which people did say that.

it's truth. And then you slide to the next picture. And it's us today. And it had like in like a matter a couple days, it was like 25 million views. Like it and then like all this stuff skyrocketed. And you know what me and my wife said? We always said TikTok wasn't for us. Like and we're not doing this. Back to the motives. Right. We're not doing any of this to like look at us. Right. Like I have a public page because I have a story to share. There's people that I want to, you know, I get deemed all the time, right? Like, hey, can you help us? Can you do this?

Or like, you know, and that's why I have social, right? Like, it's not to monetize, right? Like, you understand, like, what it takes to monetize on TikTok. You get a creator account, all that. Like, my wife wasn't making no money, right? Like, this was all ignited from a picture, right? She had some followers, and I think it was like 20,000 followers. They automatically set you out with your creator account.

But then you have to make, like, videos a minute in length, right? And so we weren't doing all that. Like she's just like, you know, having fun trying to share her side of the story, right? Because there's probably more people that reach out to her and she helps, whether it's prison wives, right? Or just loved ones that people who have a loved one in prison, specifically women, military, like there's, there's a bunch of women that she, you know, talks with and helps that are in long term relationships or a lot of prison wives, right? So she's doing the work herself and giving back.

But like, it's just, it's, it hurts and it's frustrating, but it's also funny when you're like, you see these comments, oh, they're profiting and doing all this stuff. Like, if you know anything about TikTok, like, they weren't profiting because, like, none of their content met the requirements, right? And so it's just frustrated. And like, I really hope that when it comes to, like, I don't care about what everybody else is saying,

but specifically, like, Heather, Chase, rave, that entire family, like, whatever I could do to help bring closure or healing. Like, I don't even like closure. Like, I don't like that phrase in this, right? Like, I never want to close something out. Like, I want, I want Ryan's name to live on forever in a positive way, right? Like, he was a good dude. And Looking to start

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Your miles go further across the South Pacific Book now at Fiji Airways.com Or contact your local travel agent Conditions apply Like, yeah I mean, why do you think you got the sentence that you did? And do you think it was a just sentence? And a big part of this is, you know, there's a lot of anger that you got as little time as you did for the charges.

But from an outsider's perspective, and I know the criminal justice system, you didn't pick that sentence. And from your position, you're going to obviously take the lowest deal possible. You're not going to say, hey, this isn't fair. You know, give me 30 years. no matter what, you know. So I think it is important for the audience on both sides just to see that you didn't choose that sentence that was given to you. And obviously there was a reason. And only you and the prosecutors know that reason. I think that's causing a lot of frustration, too. So I think if you could say why they presented you with that deal, you know, what the facts

were, you know, and why that deal did come about, I think that would go a long way in helping the situation. No. And I think there's definitely a lot of confusion there. I was given a plea deal. I was given an offer, right? And so I was arrested. You know, I was still in this days, right? And I remember asking, you know, like, what am I being arrested for, right?

Because, like, I still, I thought I knew. I didn't know. Like, I just was like in this, like, denial state of mind where, like, I didn't want to really admit like and I was also wasted but when they said I was being arrested for for Ryan's murder like I never made a comment after that like I'm like well it looks like I need to get an attorney or something along those lines right and so I immediately you know got counsel got a public defender for a few months until my family and friends could get a little bit of money it took to retain an attorney and then obviously like this type of case like it was I think it was like four months until

all the reports and evidence was was packaged to where, you know, we could start setting court dates, maybe even longer. And so going through all that, like, I never testified or never made a statement. And you're absolutely right. Like, I don't know any human being, right? Even the pastors I know. If they're put in a situation and, like, they're in front of a judge, like, they're going to take whatever the lowest sentences. right? No one's going to sign up to go do life in prison unless like that's the,

you know, they're forced to do it, right? I actually chose to do more time. And that's like, that's the crazy thing and not because like I want to do more time to, you know, acknowledge what I did. It was a selfish reason. But they offered me seven years with two strikes, right? So we go through the court process, like all the evidence comes in. We do a live preliminary hearing. Right. My attorneys, district attorney, they all had an opportunity to, it's not a full trial, but like you got all day to kind of present whatever you want to present. You could have live witnesses. And so some stuff came out. And there was just a lot of confusion, right? And there was also most importantly, like, there was never an intent or any motive. Like, first degree murder is premeditation. That

means like we're planning to go kill someone. Second degree murder is like, like, like intent like I'm intending to kill him and a lot of people like well you stab him X amount of times right like that's intent but like there's a law temporary insanity by means of uh voluntary intoxication right like there's uh like there's laws right and so obviously my counsel like knew that and because of all the the test and the expert witnesses like they came to this inclusion were like yeah brandon didn't intend to kill ryan like he killed them and like it's easy you could look at it like without knowing the law like like he was intended he stabbed him this many times but like that's that's that's the that's like just being in a black and outrage right like

um and so they offered me after the preliminary hearing they offered me um i think it wasn't immediately it It was like we set another court date to come back for trial, you know, a trial date. And that's when they offered me seven years with two strikes. And I was like, obviously, like, I have friends and I know people that have been to prison and, you know, it's a violent place. And so I'm like, I don't want to go to prison with two strikes, right? Like, you know, all as it takes, I didn't know anybody, but I've heard people getting struck out in prison for prison, you know, violence.

and so I was like, no, like I'll do, see if we do one strike, you know, with more time. So they came back and offered me 11 years with one strike. And so that was what they offered. They offered me seven years. I could have took that. I would have been out in five. You know, we countered. I took the 11 with one strike.

But to answer your question, like, no, dude, like there's nothing. the judge, no sentence for me, right? Like if I probably deserved a life sentence, right? You know, I sat in prison and met hundreds and hundreds of dudes that did less things than I did. We're doing life, right? Like in a non-biased way, though, when you actually look at the evidence and you look at the law, like if it was an AI generated and I got a letter from my. attorney because I was like back and forth like what should I do because they were like we could

get involuntary manslaughter which would be I think the max was four years but it was half time and then and then they'd give the knife enhancement so it would have been five years half time and by the time trial would have been done it would have been you know well over two three year trial since I would have walked out of county jail right and they were like presenting this to me and said they had a strong case that I could have got that but it's also risky Right? Because look at, you know, you have tattoos. You guys weren't living, you know, innocent lives. Like, you know, they're going to, you know. And, but like I had a letter from my attorneys. Like, if it was a computer animated jury, you'd get involuntary manslaughter. But we're dealing with, we're going to deal with jurors that have emotions. They're going to see you. They're going to see, see everything. So on factual based, if it was like an AI generated, um, um, um, um, church. hurry in trial, I probably would have got involuntary manslaughter based on the evidence, right? But they offered me a plea deal.

I took it. And, you know, no matter what they gave me, and I've said it multiple times, like, Ryan wasn't coming back. Right. And so, you know, you're going to connect with a friend of mine struggle soon. and he's like told me he's a look at dude like unfortunately like Ryan's life was taken by you through what you've been through and what you've learned you've helped thousands of people like thousands of people like in like like last year I launched a leadership academy in in Denver in 10 high schools 100 kids each school a thousand underserved youth athletes are going through

a leadership academy that I helped launch that I spearhead and developed right that's a thousand kids right there that are becoming leaders on their campuses. You know, all the work I've done in the prison, right? And I'm saying it in the humblest way, but like, I want to have been able to touch these people if it wasn't through what I went through, right? And so, you know, the facts and everything, like, you know, they came up with what they came up with, right? We all know, like, there could be facts.

It could be cut and dry, but then opinions and biases comes into it. I do think the system's broken on many, many accords, right? There's, like I said, hundreds of dudes that were doing life in prison and, you know, three strikes. All petty crimes, but there was three of them, and so they're doing life in prison, right? Guys who, you know, my bunkie, right? Like, I mentored him, right? He's hopefully coming home next year. his brother was stabbed at a party by a bunch of northerners.

And then a week later, he ran into these people and they tried to fight them. And he ended up stabbing one of them and took his life. Self defense. Manslaughter all the way. But like he didn't have, you know, proper counsel, right? And didn't have, you know, there was a couple case factors. But like, it should have been manslaughter. And some of the juries actually wrote him and told them like, hey, like, we got caught up and we think it.

But he's doing life. he was given life sentence at 18 years old. So, you know, the system's just broke, right? And unfortunately, a lot of people who don't, the district attorney's office and the public defender's office, they're all paid by the same people. They work hand in hand. So it's, you know, it's a lottery. Like, hey, you know, you're the prosecutor.

I'm the public defender. You know, you're going to win your share. And sometimes, like, when a court is met, like, you're going to, you know, let me get a get a win, right? And like, people's lives are at stake. Like, they're sending people to prison or choosing to, like, let people go home. And I think race plays a huge factor in some of this, right? That's why I've said publicly. Like, if I was anything but white, I would have received a life sentence with or without a paid attorney. But you know what? Like, and this goes back to my faith, right? For whatever reason, God had, you know, had a plan for me.

and there's a purpose and, you know, I don't take that lightly. That's why I'm not out committing crimes. It's why I'm not out like I've been sober since 2016, nothing, right? Like delivered. And just try to help people, right? And love on people and may get, you know, get carried away sometimes and say something insensitive. Like, you know, people, the people who care and know me, like they judge me all. off my heart. And my heart is, you know, to help people, to love on people. And, you know, that's,

that's all, that's all I really care about. Brandon, I appreciate you coming on the show today, brother. Thank you, brother. You did really well. I know it's not easy. It isn't easy, right? And so, like, I give you a lot of credit, bro. I don't think I'd be able to do what you're able to do if the roles reversed. Once again, like in for the audiences who are setting in, you know, prison and watching yourself on the app or, you know, the guys who did time, like, like hang on to something, right? Like, because second chances are real. They're out there. And when the opportunities given, like take full advantage of it, whether it's a job, whether it's the second chance at freedom. Like you can't take it lightly. And so, uh, I'm just grateful that

one, you had Heather out here, right? Um, and two, like you gave me the opportunity to, to talk about all of this, right? And in, in this way. So.