Locked In with Ian Bick - Inside the Night My Husband Was Brutally Murdered | Heather Bishop

Episode Date: January 12, 2025

Heather Bishop's life changed when her husband, Ryan Roth, was brutally murdered in 2012. In this rare and exclusive interview, Heather shares her perspective as a crime victim, recounting the night of the crime, the aftermath, and her journey toward seeking justice. Heather also went viral on TikTok, where she began sharing her story and raising awareness. Join us to hear her powerful account of resilience and advocacy. #HusbandMurdered #TrueCrimeStory #TheNightOfTheMurder #MurderSurvivor #TrueCrimeCommunity #InsideTheTragedy #CrimeAndJustice #TrueCrimeDocumentary Connect with Heather Bishop: IG: https://www.instagram.com/itsheatherbishh/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heatherbishop_ Website: https://bio.site/heatherbishop?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaZmk1RKqr6rRqtDSB3ZRAGmAUE8rAzeD3VDfLovve1cggnADu6ChbzQm_0_aem_mAXMf8mhYU4ndo7oroXRCA Thank you to our sponsors this week: Magic Mind: Visit https://www.magicmind.com/ianbickjan to get 45% off the Magic Mind Bundle! Orgain: For 30% off your order, head to https://Orgain.com/IANBICK and use code IANBICK.   PrizePicks: Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/IANBICK & download the app today & use code IANBICK to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup! Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Growing a Tik Tok Following 00:06:34 Childhood Memories and Bullying Experiences 00:13:24 From Aspiring Makeup Artist to Homeowner at 21 00:20:41 Reflections on Parenting and Life Choices 00:27:50 Coping with Prescription Misuse 00:35:50 The Shocking News of Ryan's Murder 00:42:54 Coping with Sudden Tragedy and Loss 00:50:11 Unraveling the Mystery: Who was Brandon? 00:57:37 Investigation Flaws and Suspect's Escape 01:05:29 Understanding Insanity Pleas and Legal Outcomes 01:12:57 Emotional Impact of Sentencing 01:20:52 Returning to Petaluma: The Impact on a Small Town 01:27:33 TikTok Monetization and GoFundMe Challenges 01:34:58 Going Viral and Unexpected Support 01:41:53 The Complexity of Forgiveness 01:49:04 Navigating Apologies and Control in Relationships Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's all at Treasure Island, Las Vegas. Visit Treasure Island.com to book your room for just $79. a night. That's treasure island.com. Heather, welcome to Lockton. The story of how we met is pretty crazy, all because of TikTok, which we're going to get into later in this episode. But you have a TikTok. I want you to plug it in at the top of this episode, what your TikTok is.

That's your biggest platform right now, I think. Yeah. But you are growing the other ones too. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't even that intentional, actually. And the TikTok has just blown up in a little over a month. And definitely not used to. having that big of a following. So even just being here and having so much transpire since that

first post is pretty cool and overwhelming at the same time because there's so much that comes along with that. But the TikTok has been great. Like the followers on there are so supportive and amazing. And even like you reaching out was pretty incredible. So. Well, I appreciate you messaging me back because there's a lot of people in your position that won't even message you back because they'll blow up because of their story. And then they either don't look at the messages or anything. I'm very like on top of looking at all my messages because you never know what's going to be the next big story. Yeah.

And I think that with my situation too, there's so much intention behind the reason that I'm there. So like I want to see who's reaching out. And there wasn't so many direct messages, I would say, which is interesting because with that many, you know, followers and the likes and the comments on the actual posts, I didn't get too many. But I do look through the messages that are directly sent

because they definitely had a message that people wanted me to hear, whether it was somebody who was inviting me to talk to them or if they wanted to feature it and were just asking me if I was okay with it. But then also people that were like reaching out with their own stories as well, which was overwhelming and also comforting at the same time to see. Yeah, it really is cool. The community, a thing like TikTok built more so than I think any other platform because everyone's commenting. You're interacting. You can go live. You can do all of these different things.

Yeah, which I'm still learning about. When I was going live, there was so many, like, symbols and things happening on there. I was like, I don't even know how to do this. So maybe you can teach me a little bit about going live on TikTok because I'm definitely learning. But TikTok is a whole different world, too. And the things that people will say on TikTok and the following, because my other platforms are people that I know for the most part. And then more beyond that. But it's just a different type of community feeling.

Yeah, I've been on TikTok for two years and I don't even use half the tools because mine's just clips. and I'll use like the editor, but some people do all the fancy stuff. I don't know how to do any of that. Oh, good. Well, I feel better then. Yeah, because I'm just putting a clip up and captioning it. Right. And then occasionally I'll do like TikTok's great and JD, who we were talking to earlier,

loves using TikTok to record it because of the way you can pause it, stop it, and to build the video, which I'm sure you've used that feature. I have. And that was similar, I feel like maybe to Instagram in that way, whereas kind of like that too, and I know how to use Instagram. So, and I was impressed with the features in TikTok, actually. They do have a lot of really good editing features in there. Awesome.

Yeah. Now, you just said you were a fan of macha before we started. So I want you to try one of these magic mind mental performance shots. I'm looking forward to it. One of the, you know, sponsors of the show. And it's actually really good. So I've been really focusing lately on like a good diet and fitness and training every day, getting in a good rhythm, which is why I'm like kind of cutting back on traveling and just kind of staying here.

So I'm in a good routine. Matt and I out there, we signed up for like a spa and a sauna down the road. And we're doing boxing and this and that. So this really helps. Like we take one of these in the morning. And they also have a sleep one too, that they're sending us a care package of those. I'll have to send you some too. Yeah.

Those help you sleep at night. These are the energy ones. And you can also drink this with your coffee too. Do you drink coffee? I drink matcha. Okay. So perfect. Yeah.

Well, cheers. Enjoy. Let me know what you think. Thanks. Oh, it's really good. You like it? It's great. We'll send you home with some.

Okay. They come in a package like this too, and they're best served cold if you do buy it. Yeah, it's really good. These things, yeah, we'll send you a few of these to take with you. Sharper mind, lower stress, and calm energy. We all need that. And it doesn't leave you with like that crash effect of energy drinks. Right.

I can't do that. Yeah, or anything. Like even coffee sometimes won't last me throughout the day. And coffee kind of upsets my stomach, but matcha doesn't. And it's not as sweet as like when you go to Dunkin' Donuts and are you a Dunkin' or a Starbucks girl? Neither. Pretty healthy. So either way, like when you order matcha, any of those places, it's so sweet.

This doesn't really taste sweet. Yeah. I would say Starbucks is not really like a real macha. So for anyone, you know, listening, they go to magicmind.com slash Ian Bick Jan. J-A-N is the promo code, Ian Bick-Jan, and they can get 45% off a bundle like that. And it comes with the performance boosting ones and the sleeper. ones. Nice. That sounds like a good deal. Yeah. I wish I had the sleep ones last night because this time change is getting me. Really? Yeah. The time change is rough. It is. This is your first

time in New York City, right? Yes. Did you like it? I'm obsessed. I love it. And I did not ever want to come to New York. So I'm actually a little, well, I'm not shocked because I never wanted to go to Paris. I know it's so weird. I'm weird. But when I went to Paris, I fell in love. And I felt like some of the buildings really reminded me of that. It's very, you know, there's so much more culture. feel like to it. The East Coast is so much different. I love the West Coast, obviously. I grew up there, but it's nice. I'm surprised you guys came so quick, because we were just talking like three weeks ago when I was actually in L.A. And then you guys booked the trip out here together. I know. We pulled the trigger. You were like, should we go there for New Year's? And I was like, no, do not go to

Times Square. I didn't want to come for New Year's. My son Chase was like, let's go for New Year's. And I said, I don't know if that's a good idea. It's got to be so crazy there. So we're flying out on New Year's Eve. But it's really cool seeing all the prep for everything. They're putting up the stages and the ball and we can see like the 2025 up there. So it'll be like the perfect like ramp up to New Year's Eve and then we'll make it home for New Year's Eve at home. Are you guys staying or are you guys staying in the Times Square area? We are. Okay. Yeah. Apparently if you're so when you're a tourist, it's okay to stay in the Times Square area. But if you ever come back, you're not allowed to stay in that area because then people rip you

because it's a tourist spot. Yeah. Every time I, when I got older, I would take trips to New York City. We were just, I would always book a hotel in Times Square. You're like, you've been to New York City a hundred times. You can't just stay in Times Square. I don't think I would say there if I went back. There's so much, there's so many other places to stay. You guys should see a musical. Are you in the musicals?

Yeah. Lion King. You know. See the Lion King. That would be cool. I haven't seen one in a really long time and we talked about that. I don't know if my son would be. I think he would like it once he went.

Or Wicked because now Wicked's trending with the movie. Oh, right. So you grew up in California. Yeah, from Northern California. And just grew up pretty normal. And it's crazy because I think about like the things that happened during my upbringing and how they've shaped me into the way that I am now. And I got bullied really bad when I was in school. And everybody's always so shocked to hear that.

I'm like, really? What are they bullied you for? I was bullied so, so bad. The stupidest things ever, it started probably in seventh grade and the girls were always trying to fight and be really strong. scrappy and I did not want to fight. I didn't want anything to do with it. It totally intimidated me. I backed down from all of it and then they would bully me more because of that because I was like, I just want to be friends, you know? Why do we have to be like so crazy? And then once I got into high school and it started like shifting over into high school and I feel like we live in wine country

area more so, so like the North Bay area. And the Bay area can be a little ghetto in certain areas, you know, I mean, we're like 45 minutes away from San Francisco and Oakland and areas that are really like not the kind of place that you probably want to hang out in those areas, you know, but it's not that bad. We were actually just using chat GPT. Do you use chat GPT? Of course. All my titles and everything are chat GPT. It's the best. I cannot live without it. It's amazing. Yeah, I have the app and I talk into it and my phone. I ask it, whatever. I know. Me too. I just ran out of memory actually in it. What? Yeah. Because it remembers. It starts to know. Yeah, I know. I'm really bummed.

I'm like, how do I pay for more? Because I wanted to know as much as possible so it can help me. But we were asking if it's more dangerous to be in the New York area or areas of New York than it is in the Bay Area. And it was actually saying that the Bay Area is a little bit more dangerous. Really? That was interesting. Yeah. There's no way that's true.

I don't know. I don't know. With what's everything's been going on in New York City? Like the subway incident? Did you hear about that? I did. That's horrible. And I had been saying that I wanted to take the subway.

and my son said, no, we're not taking the subway. And so I was like, don't look at the news. I hate the subway. I can't stand the subway and I don't know how to work it. So I use the GPS. Thank God. Apple has the GPS where it's the train thing now. So it'll tell you what's stopped to get on.

Oh. I'm terrible with directions. Oh. But the train ride here to Connecticut is actually really nice and it's not like the subway at all. Oh. I don't know if you guys got scared by the train at all because of that news. I think we just wanted to have a car for the day so we could kind of check out the area since we're in a different state. Okay. Yeah. So anyway, for some reason, these girls up in the wine country area that were in, that's super nice, wanted to act kind of like their gangsters or something. You know, it was like this whole vibe. So I hated it. And I actually ended up switching schools when I got into high school because I just did not want to deal with it anymore. So I made it a deal with myself that I would not let anybody walk all over me ever again. And not to say that I was going to like go out looking for trouble, obviously. But I just, I know.

Notice that the more that you back down from people like that when they try to have altercations with you, that they do believe that they can continue to do that and do things to, you know, put you down and hurt you and put you on the defense. And like, I just didn't ever want to be in that situation ever again. So anytime that anybody ever tried to put me in those situations, I knew that I had to have boundaries and stand my ground. And I feel like those things have carried over so much into my adult life to where having those strong boundaries and sticking up for myself and using my voice has been really important. And so just like with everything, all the things in my life had led me up to where I am right now, to being the person that I need to be, which also could make people feel really uncomfortable. And I've experienced that a lot where people will, you know, feel intimidated by you using your voice, especially as a female, which I hate to pull that card because it's not always the case. But I do think that people, you know, want you to be quiet and they don't want you to speak up and they'll find reasons why they are not comfortable with it. So there will be opposition when you have that type of personality.

What do your parents do for work? My dad owns an HVAC company and my mom worked with him, but now they're divorced and she's retired. Did they get divorced when you were young? No, actually, I had already moved out of the house. Okay. Yeah. So it didn't really necessarily affect your childhood? No.

But they had like a lot of turmoil in their relationship. And so like seeing that, I think, wasn't healthy. and that's always been really important to me to make sure that my kids saw a positive relationship transpiring in front of them rather than fighting and the negativity, which is also challenging, especially when you have young relationships.

It's easy for people to fall into that trap too. What about siblings? Did you have any? No, I have a half-brother, but he didn't live with us. You were an only child? Yeah. Wow. I know. People are like, oh, it makes sense.

When they find that out most of the time if they know me pretty well. But yeah. Did you like being an only child? No. And so I had kids close together. So my two sons, Chase and Rave, I had Rave pretty quickly after I think I got pregnant with him when Chase was about a year old. And I just really wanted to make sure that they had each other because I always wish that I had a sibling. And they fought like crazy.

Well, this backfired. And they still fight, but I know that they love each other. They still, they have a good relationship, but they are just those types of boys. Yeah, I think about all the times when my brother and I used to fight, now we don't fight at all because there's nothing to fight over. But like growing up, like we fought a lot, like all the time, just how I guess sometimes brothers are. Yeah, that was traumatizing to watch for me because I was not expecting that at all.

And I didn't, I was not around that. I didn't have siblings to fight with that way. I just had cousins. And we got along so good. My cousins are my best friends. They're like brothers. So seeing the boys do that with each other, I was just like, oh my gosh, this is horrible. Did you go off to college?

I didn't. So my dad told me probably when I was about 12 that he was not going to pay for me to go to college and that he was not going to take care of me. And so I better figure it out, which I don't recommend saying that in that way to your kids because I was like terrified. So I started buying things for my kitchen when I was probably 16 or 17. I remember my first waffle iron and I hit it underneath my bed. So, you know, I would just have all these things because I knew one day I needed to get out of there and have my own house and be independent. And that was so important to me. And I always wanted to have a family and have kids.

And that was what I really wanted to do. And so I also, I really wanted to be a makeup artist. And so I went to school to be an aesthetician. And then I was going to go on to be a makeup artist. And then I met my son's dad, Ryan. And I was so infatuated with him that I just put everything on hold. My whole life just kind of went on hold because we got into this really intense relationship. And he was a very successful plumber already at that time.

I was 18 and he was 21. And so we really quickly realized that he needed to own a company eventually. And so I was really on track for doing that. And so I got a job working at a title company and I worked there for a while. and I would work really long hours. But I moved out when I was 18. And I bought my first house when I will escrow closed when I was 21. But I went into the process when I was 20 because I started seeing everybody at my job buying houses.

You know, all these people were coming in. And I was like, okay, I got to figure this out. And it was a really good time, you know, back then in California at least. I'm sure everywhere, though, because of, you know, whatever was going on with the economy. but you were able to buy homes for reasonable prices, which now it's so difficult. So I'm really happy that I made that choice. Even friends of mine that are my age, so they still don't own homes because it's not really that common to buy a house when you're 20.

Yeah, I feel like less and less people are kind of moving on from that dream of like owning a home given today's climate and everything that's going on. 100%. Yeah. So many things are changing. I mean, even the fact that I wanted to have a family and have kids so young, so many people don't want to do that now and they wait. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of people having kids, of course, but. I don't know. I feel like it's flipped back to young now. All my friends, and I'm

kind of young. I'm 29. I have friends that are having kids married. I don't know. I was just always thought, like, you got to get married when you're over 30. You have the house. You have everything established and whatnot. I was talking to Matt the other day. Like, if I had kids before I went to prison or even after, I'd be kind of in a bad spot because my life wasn't built together. I'm glad that never happened. I'm almost glad I went to prison instead of having kids. Hey, it's your host of Lockton, and if you're into fitness and a healthy lifestyle like I am, then you need to hear about this amazing deal that's exclusive for listeners of Lockton.

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This is the best offer you'll find, but you have to use my code, Ian Bick. one last time for 30% off, head to orgaine.com slash Ian Bick and use code Ian Bick. Fuel up, feel good, and thank me later. Now, let's get back into today's episode. Yeah, I mean, 100%. When I think about the way that I even was when I was 21, when my first son was born, Chase, and then I had Rafe when I was 23, and then we decided that we didn't want to have any more kids. It seems like two kids is my max.

Once I have two little ones running around, it's craziness. And I'm like overstimulated and that's it. So we weren't going to have any more kids. And then now I have a four-year-old and a three-year-old. And again, that's my max for sure. But looking back at the parent that I was when I was 21 and 23 and raising them through my 20s and then having these next two kids, my daughter was born when I turned 40. So completely different parent. And the way that they're going to be raised is going to be obviously completely different for so many reasons.

But the way that I respond to things and the level of establishment that you have in your life at that point is just night and day. So just like you were saying, I mean, you would be a different parent completely because you haven't had all those experiences yet. But think about like the way that people used to have kids when they were teenagers. That's wild to me. How can you have kids before your brain is even really developed? You're not, you don't have your, what is it, your frontal cortex until you're 25. Yeah. It's a little scary.

That's why they made a whole TV show about it. 16 and pregnant, right? Oh, yeah. Or whatever the show was called. Right. I used to love watching that. Teen mom, that's what it was. Teen mom, you watched that? Back in the day.

You're hilarious. Yeah, I watched teen mom and teen mom too. One of the teen moms went to prison. I think Farah, Abraham or something. I didn't watch that show. That's all you. I got her on the podcast. But that is interesting how, like, having a lot of,

that second set of kids later on in life, it's like now you're seasoned and experienced in that. It's almost like the child will have a totally different experience from your first kids. Oh, yeah. And even the older boys are like, they're never going to know, like, who you were then during that time. It's really, like, bittersweet to, because the second set of kids that I have are pretty much the same age gap as the boys. And so just like watching them grow and seeing them interact and then thinking back to. the boys, it just brings back so many memories and it really brings me back to that time. And because of what happened, it can also be like sad in ways because it just, it makes me remember things about

how things were at that time and then think about how I could have done things differently, you know, which we always do. But you can't ever go back. Looking back on it now, are you happy with your decision to put your career on hold, which is what you thought you wanted to be your career at the time? I mean, I think that everything happens for a reason. Everything leads us, to where we're supposed to be. So, I mean, thinking about what my life would have been like, who knows what that could have been like in a monetary sense. But the life experiences that I've had, I would never go back and take them back because

they've all made me who I am today. So it's going, you know, thinking like, oh, well, if I made this choice different, I mean, it's easy to do that when you are raising your kids, like when, because you're thinking about how you affect somebody else, you know? And so I want the best for my kids, obviously. even though when I was a 20-year-old mom and raising them as a young mom, I always felt like I was doing what was right for them at the time. And I always did my best.

And I think I was a really good mom. But there's just certain things that now I wouldn't. I think as you get older too, you worry more maybe. You know, I'm a little bit more of like, oh, let's not do that. Where I was just a little bit, when you're young, you know, it's okay. I've heard my kids say so many times, it's not a big deal, mom. Everything's going to be fine. Everything's going to be fine.

And I now feel really bad for doing that to my mom. Because when you're now, I'm 43. So now I'm like, no, everything might not be fine. How did your parents feel about you jumping into that relationship at 18? They were not happy at all. But they couldn't really say much about it because my mom got married to my dad and got together with my dad when she was only 16. So her parents told her, if you guys are going to be together, then you need to get married, which she thinks was actually a really bad thing that they forced her into.

But crazy different times, you know. How old was she when she had you? She had me four days before her 18th birthday. Oh, so she's a young mom, too. She's very young. She was actually the same age as I am now when Chase, my older son was born. So me having my daughter at 40, it's almost like I could be her grandma. Wow.

Isn't that weird? Yeah, but at least it's good that she's young to be there for you for, you know, a while to help out and then everything like that. My daughter? No, your mom. Oh, my mom? Yeah, you're right now, not the daughter. Hopefully she'll make care of me when I'm old. Well, that too.

But, yeah, the mom, though, like having that, like my dad's, you know, 50 years older than me. Oh. He had me late. He had me at 50. And then my brother at 54. Oh, okay. And my mom's in her 60s. So it kind of puts it into perspective.

It does. And I think about that with my daughter because I will be in my 60s when she's in her 20s. It'll be interesting, but she'll get a lot of life experience from you. Yeah. So when do you and Ryan end up getting married? So I actually got pregnant with Chase before we got married. And it was intentional, I would say. And I got pregnant when I was 20, like I was saying.

And then he was born when I was 21. Ryan was really excited about it. He was definitely on board and everything. And we were excited to be together and moved into the house that I bought together. And Chase was born. And then we got married in between the business. boys. So then we, I think Chase was about eight months old when we got married. And were you working with his business now? Like as kind of like a family team? So we actually started the business when

Chase was born because I was so excited to go back to work. I really do like working. And then I just couldn't leave him as a baby. It was really scary. And so Ryan had quit his job. He got into a fight with his boss or something. He was a plumber. And they do that. So he, um, started studying for his license, I think, at that time. And I think he was doing side jobs for a while. So I was just at home with Chase. And then I started doing books for a construction company. So I could kind of learn the ropes. And I took a couple of classes at the JC. And then, and then, yeah, I think he just did side jobs for a short period of time. And then we opened up our business maybe when I was pregnant with my second son. So that took off so fast. Ryan was really good. building relationships. He just had a way with people. When he walked into the room, everybody knew he was there. He was always really good at getting into rapport and connecting with people, really fun, really outgoing. He had a nickname for everybody, and they still use the nicknames

to this day. And you could hear his voice in your head. He was really funny. Definitely pushed me out of my comfort zone on everything. And so when we started our business, I was like, the cautious one. And I was like, you know, we shouldn't spend money on this. You shouldn't take this big job. Our first job was a dialysis center. I'm like, this is a huge job. There was reverse osmosis lines and so much going on, certain things that Ryan didn't even know how to do yet. And so he was just to grab the bull by the horns. We'll figure it out as we go kind of a person. And I was more reserved and cautious. And so it actually worked out well us collaborating in business together because we balanced each other out so much. And he definitely made me feel

uncomfortable with so many things that he pushed me not even just with the business. but just to do things that I wouldn't normally say yes to. And I wouldn't do it always willingly, but then afterwards I would say, oh, that was so good. I'm so glad that you did that. So, you know, now today, in his honor almost, have always said yes to things, even coming out here to talk to you, which is something I've never done before. But if it's not going to hurt you or hurt someone else, and if it is, even though it can make you really uncomfortable, pushing yourself out of your comforts out is something that is so important. So I really do my best to say yes to experiences because of that. Did he have a good relationship with your parents?

Yeah. So after, I mean, even I think when we got together when I was young, it wasn't so much that he didn't have a good relationship with them. I think that they just didn't want me to jump into a relationship so quickly. And I was so passionate about that relationship that they weren't really into that. But yeah, it grew into a really good relationship. And my mom loved him. and, you know, advocates for him still to this day. How many years of time did you guys have together once you had both of your kids at that point?

What was life like for those, that period of time? Like, how long were we together? Yeah, and like when you were in your 20s before anything happened with what's to come. Well, I mean, we were so ambitious. So we had, like, had bought a boat. And then I decided that we really needed to build a house. And so we moved from that house. and we were expanding the company doing hotel projects, and we traveled together quite a bit,

and we had the ability to do so much because our company was so successful. We had 40 people working for us at one time. Wow. Yeah, it was a lot, especially to be that young. And so we started building the house and moved into our house that I still live in now when I was only 25, which was a very cool accomplishment. And, yeah, I mean, he wanted to move from that house. He had a whole other lot picked out.

wanted to build a 6,000 square foot house next. And he was so great with running our business. He would get up every morning. He had no problem popping out of bed and was up before everybody. It would be up at like 5.30 in the morning, go to the shop, get the guys going, come back, have coffee for me on my nightstand. He was great. So, yeah, and we had a really good time together. I mean, we did a lot of fun stuff. We did fight sometimes because, you know, we were young and growing with someone when you're together with them from the time that you're really young. especially two people that have very fiery personalities can clash. But I would say 95% of the time, I mean, we did great.

We had a lot of fun. He was my best friend. Take us to the day that your time with him was cut short. Yeah. So, I mean, well, prior to that, we did separate. So that was something that I did want to talk about and explain just because so many people deal with that. And so many people deal with some of the struggles that he had as well. So he had a prescription for norco.

Do you know what norcos are? No. Really? Yeah, what's a norca? I mean, I don't even know. I guess they don't even sell or prescribe them anymore because the laws have changed so much. But it's like an opiate, I guess. It's like a pain pill, like a Vicodin.

Do you know what that is? Yeah, of course. Okay. I'm 29. Give you some credit. I'm just getting ripped. Well, I thought everybody knew what a norco was. I'm sorry.

Okay. So it's a Vicodin. So this is how this starts for a lot of people. And my mom, she would be okay with me saying this. She had a back problem. Both of my parents have back problems. And I don't know if you've ever seen the documentary about this, but it was a crazy HBO documentary about the pharmaceutical companies and the way that they pushed all of those drugs during that time. Was that called the pharmacist?

No. Okay. I'm trying to think of what it was. But it was pretty crazy just to say. see the way that they were going into doctor's offices and they were pushing the sales reps to really make these sales and prescribe them. And the studies that they had where they were giving people mass amounts of them just to see how they would react to it. And it was just an insane business what they were doing. It's horrible. They killed so many people and got so many people

hooked on drugs. So my mom had a problem with it. She had to go into rehab when I was in my or maybe in high school. And so I was really sensitive to that because it really changes somebody's personality when they're on those. And they can take more and more of them. You know, it's crazy how much they can take. One of them will make me feel sick. Like I'm going to throw up or something.

I can't handle it. So I think maybe I had gotten a prescription for one for something. And I'm the kind of person who will like cut it in half and, you know, take a little bit and then save the rest for a rainy day or if somebody's. He's like, you know, has their leg amputated or something. So I noticed that they were gone. And so Ryan was taking them after he had a prescription for them. And he got to the point where he was taking a lot of them. And I noticed it with the way that he was acting and his behaviors.

And so I was feeling really pulled away from that relationship because I was really nervous about how that was going to affect the boys and the way that he was starting to act because of it. He was being way different. than what he was. So we actually separated, and this was in, I want to say, the end of 2008, maybe 2009. It's a long time ago now. And during that time, that was really, really difficult because he was in a denial state about the whole thing and thought that I was just being over the top and controlling, obviously. So it's really hard when you're in that situation as a woman where you're doing what's right, but then people are trying to flip the script on you, like you're doing something wrong and you're just messing up their life.

you know, and so you have to stay very strong in your beliefs about what your mission is and your principles are. So it was a really difficult time. And I was so happy for him because I want to say it was in 2011. So a little bit of time went by of this separation. He started going into NA and was in a program. And so he had gotten off everything and he was like really proud of his six-month chip and was really turning it all around. So he had a different house. He was living up in Auburn in Northern

California as well, and that's about two hours away from where I live. And the reason that he moved there was because his mom lived there. And so it was in a gated community called Lake of the Pines. Super beautiful. We used to go up there and stay with his mom. It's like this really cool little community. There's a lake in the middle of it. People drive their golf carts around, and it's like a summer camp, essentially. So he was living just about, I don't know, a few blocks away from his mom up there. and the boys were going there on the weekends to go stay with him. So, yeah, fast forward to that time. Ryan and I had been spending a lot of time together.

So that Christmas time, he'd come down for Christmas, and we took the kids snowboarding. We had gone to the pumpkin patch that year together with the boys. So it was nice that, you know, there had to be that separation, which was really important. And Ryan took so much accountability for everything that happened. He was really wanting his family back and to get back together. And that's hard for me to look back on now because it's always like the what-ifs, you know, of how things could play out.

But anyway, so about so this is the hard part. My son's going to get so mad at me because he's like, don't skip around. So on the Valentine's Day of 2012, Ryan and I met together that day. And we had lunch and he gave me a little, like, plastic ring. And, you know, we just had fun together. And it was nice. He gave me a cute little card. And we met halfway, actually.

And I saw him that day. And then he went back to his place. And then the next weekend, he came down to pick up the kids. And so he was telling me, like, yeah, you know. And this is actually part of the story that I did not tell on my platform that everybody's like, tell the rest of the story. So we're going to talk about the story right now. know. So he said, you know, you know, Mani, our friend Mani? And I was like, yeah. And he said, well,

he apparently somebody robbed his house. And he's accusing me of being the person that did it. But I wasn't down here. And Mani lived just about 10 minutes away from me. And so I just thought it was like strange that he was even bringing that up to me. And I was like, what? What is going on? And I just kind of brushed it off, you know. And so, but he just wanted to verify. He was like, you know, so I was with you. Like, obviously, I had nothing to do with that. And I was like, yeah, of course, whatever. So then that was it. And then we were talking on the phone a lot that week. And February, so the night before was February 22nd, we were on the phone that night. And Ryan was, like, really encouraging me to move up to Auburn and sell our house. And I did not want to do that.

Just because during that time frame, I had done so much work to reestablish myself. independently because although, you know, we had the business together that was very successful, I really realized that that's not going to be my business. And Ryan made that pretty clear, too, when we split up. He was really angry. This was not like a really nice split up. That was a really horrible time. It was really traumatizing for me, actually, to go through all of that because this was somebody that I was really in love with, but I knew I needed to do that. So it's one of those things where somebody else has the wheel of your life. And you're like, I just, I know that this is the right thing to do. So we're on the phone that night and we were on the phone for about an hour. And this was

at like 11, 1130 at night. And we got into an argument because he was accusing me of not actually being in love with him because I wouldn't move. It has nothing to do with that. But again, just ridiculous relationship stuff. And so I actually hung up on him because I was mad. And then he texted me right afterwards and he said, I'm really sorry. I don't want to fight with you. Let's get off on the right foot tomorrow. So I go to bed and I was super mad at him still. I don't even know if I saw his text actually. And the next day I get a phone call kind of late in the day, actually. I want to say it was like around 1030 or 11, which is late considering what happened. And it was my sister-in-law and she was just completely losing her mind on the phone. And I was like,

what happened? And she said, Ryan was murdered. Ryan was murdered last night. And I just remember, remember like it's like someone who's speaking a different language or something. Like you can't process that. That's it's not just, I mean, even if somebody just tells you that, you know, someone that you care about passed away, it feels like that. But the word in everything, it was just so overwhelming. And so I just fell to my knees and I was alone and I wish that I wasn't told that way. You know, maybe somebody could have been with me at the time or something. But I don't know if it would have even mattered. So I was just so confused because I said, well, I talked to him. last night. There's no, what do you mean? Like, this makes no sense. I talked to him. I got off the phone

with him after midnight. So, you know, everybody's so frantic when something like that happens. It's not like anybody's really pulling it together. So it took a while for me to like get the story. I remember of calling so many people that day and trying to ask questions about like, what's going on? I mean, even Ryan's mom found out about this because she had on the local news in the morning and the cops were outside and, you know, the whole news report and she saw that it was his house. So nobody even called her. It was just awful. The way everything happened was so awful.

And so many people came over to my house that day and there was so much support and, you know, slowly started getting some information. But because Ryan and I had been separated, it was also really difficult because people weren't sure if they should talk to me or if they should be talking to his mom. and she was, you know, beside herself. You couldn't talk to her. And we were so far away from each other, too. We're two hours away. And so I couldn't get anybody to bring me up there. My initial reaction was somebody needs to drive me up there right now.

I want to see Ryan. I need to see him. I just couldn't process it. I could not wrap my mind around that. So when I talked to the detective, he said that he doesn't recommend me doing that. And we couldn't view him because he was so bad. madly mutilated, which is really horrible. So that's also really, you know, difficult because I, you know, I, sorry, Ryan and I were together for 10 years straight. And we, you know, slept in the same bed

and I bought his vitamins. You know, there's just so much that I put into that relationship with him. He was my family. So having that told to you is just, You just never think that something like that could happen. So when somebody says, you know, it's fine, nothing's going to happen. It changes you a lot. And I'll always be changed because of this. And that doesn't mean that I don't accept it. But it's just, you know, grief is like this. It's really unpredictable. And you're always going to have it. It's always going to be there. And you have to allow yourself to have those feelings and to just. I think a lot of people try to suppress that. You know, it's not appropriate or it's not something that you want to show and you don't want to cry. But I've found the most healing by doing that. So it's been such a process. Hey, it's your host of Lockton.

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because this happened, you know, going on 13 years now. There was years that went by where I didn't cry again about it for for so much time. The first year, I would say, the first two years, really, because the first year is always, you know, looking back at the season. Oh, this time last year, I remember we did this, you know. It was like, you always look back at like the prior year of what happened. And since I've gone through this, I've, you know, connected with other people who've gone through losses and they do the same thing. They're, you know, processing the previous year and those experiences that they had with the person prior.

And then the second year is a lot of, you know, grief has the different cycles that you go through. And I feel like when something happens in the very beginning, you go through them rapidly. You're like disbelief, upset, anger, you know, all of them. They just come at you so quickly that it can be very messy. And then I think that the longer that time goes by, they, you just don't sit in them as long. You know, like you get that feeling, but you've already kind of processed that feeling. so then it leaves you. So it's just, it's a really interesting thing the way that it works.

And I just feel so much empathy for people who have gone through something like this or even just losing somebody at all. Because when you lose someone, you know, you go through all those feelings, but then doubling on top of it, you know, court hearings and the person that actually chose to take the person's life, you know, and I would never discredit somebody who lost someone like a car accident or, you know, to an illness or something like that. Of course, like, that loss is still just, I've lost people to all of the things, actually. I had never lost anybody prior to Ryan dying. And then the year that he died, I had multiple people. One of my really good friends

died from breast cancer. My dog died, but a bunch of other people, one of my best friends committed suicide. It was crazy. And I had never dealt with death at all, which was pretty impressive actually to get through because I was 30. So it was just a lot. But when you deal with a murder, there's another element to that, another feeling of it. And I think that when it first happened, it was, I did have anger towards the person that killed him. I was really angry.

When I went to one of the court hearings, I actually, like, cussed him out as he walked past me and I almost got kicked out for that. and they told me that I couldn't do that anymore. So I think I didn't even go to any after that because I just wanted to like, I wanted to go off on him. It was really difficult. I mean, how could you not? So where was I? Where were your kids that day when you found out?

So they were at school, actually. And then when they, my neighbor, we were really close and she was with me. And then she came over to watch them when I went over. I'm sorry. She came over. She was with me, and then she went to go pick them up that day. So when they came home, there was a ton of people at my house. I mean, there was so many cars up and down our street.

Our whole living room was full. Everybody was sitting with me, and I was just, like, trying to take phone calls and figure out what was going on. Of course, everybody was calling me. It was so overwhelming. And the kids walked in, and they thought we were having a party. And so they were kind of, like, excited when they first got there because my neighbor obviously didn't tell them what happened when they were driving.

home. And so they came in and I told them. And it, you know, it's, it's hard to know what you would do at the time. Like, it's not like you could keep it from them. And they were old enough at that point that they could figure out how to get information, you know, I mean, the whole time growing up, they were six and eight years old at the time. So I would say Chase. And he, they've always been very tech savvy. And so if they wanted to get online or look something up, I mean, it wasn't the kind of situation where you could hide it. This was like on the news. and in all of these papers and so much coming out about it and everybody knew about it. So, I mean, I just hear stories about people who decide to, like, keep certain elements away from their kids.

And this wasn't really the scenario where you could do that. So Chase cried. They both cried. We were very upset. It was one of the worst moments in my life having to tell them that. And I don't think that that day, like Chase cried. so much and he was so upset and then he did not cry for so long after that that was like so traumatizing for him and I don't see him cry for years which is really sad I feel like rave process did a lot

different he would come into my room and tell me that he missed his dad and talk about it and chase would come in and he would get mad about that he would just say like rave like stop talking about that like we're not going to talk about that he really didn't want to talk about it he really They just bottled up a lot of those feelings, which was really sad to see because, you know, I took them to therapy and Chase didn't want to engage in that at all as much as they, and there's so much different feedback that you get on that, you know, like put them in therapy, don't push them into therapy until they're ready, you know, it's very difficult to navigate that.

There's so much that comes along with it. I've had a lot of people reach out to me, some people who they tell me. me that their, you know, child's father has passed away. And so they ask for advice or, you know, how will I, how will I deal with this? And are they, you know, going to try to retaliate when they get older and just the what ifs of not knowing how things are going to pan out? You just have to be in the moment and kind of live it day by day and do your best because it's, it's very unpredictable, like I said. And I can't even imagine what it's like to grieve as a child, you know? Like I know that processing how to process it as an adult, obviously,

but thinking about that being your story when you're so young, I don't know if I can even wrap my mind around that. How long to take you to get information on what exactly happened? It was trickling, and everybody was so confused about it. So there were people there that were all partying. And so I didn't know that, though.

When I was on the phone with Ryan, it sounded very quiet. There wasn't anything going on there. I knew that he had some people over that were there working. And so they were staying there. And there was somebody that kept coming in that kept trying to talk to him while I was on the phone with him that night. And he was like, oh, come on, I'm on the phone. Like, I'll talk to you in just a minute, okay?

And it wasn't aggressive. Like, there was no, like, aggression. Ryan wasn't, like, trying to flex on anybody or wasn't anything weird like that. It just sounded like he was trying to have a quiet conversation with me. And so he told me that he had gone into his room and the door was closed. And I was like, who are you talking to? And he's like, oh, this guy just keeps trying to talk to me. I'm just going to talk to him when I get off the phone.

And I was like, oh, okay, whatever. Not a big deal at all. So the people that were there, you know, it was so frustrating for us because we couldn't get an answer. Like, what the heck happened? What is going on? Well, these people are drinking and like doing whatever. I don't know what they were doing. I don't know what the other people at the party were doing.

But it sounded like some of them were doing cocaine. and um Ryan wasn't he was a headband sober so um everybody had a different story people ran off and scattered when this happened all I knew is that he was stabbed to death

he was stabbed a lot and it was like to the point where you know I think that maybe we found out that his face and his like upper torso on his right side um the they didn't have a lot of information for us which was really frustrating, was like, what is going on? You know, I didn't like the fact that he was just laying there. I didn't like the fact that it sounded like nobody tried to defend him or help because Ryan was the kind of person that was like the first person to stand up for you.

Like if you were his friend or even if you weren't, if he saw an animal or an innocent bystander or something going on, he would be the person to like intervene and help always, like totally go out of his way. So I was really upset to hear, I was like, there was like six people there and how did somebody just stab him to death? And Ryan was like very healthy. He was probably at the peak of his health at that time. He went to the gym every day. He was very athletically built. He was six one.

I mean, I just, it was really weird to me that somebody was able to stab him like that. You know, it's like hard because when you have somebody that you like feel. so safe with and then somebody can do that to them. You just, he was like Superman to me. I didn't think that I could happen. So it was really, really difficult for me to process that. We kind of started getting more information, I guess. I started calling people because I found out who the name of the person that did it.

They said that he was arrested. And then I started calling a lot of people that were friends with Ryan. Did you know this guy? Who is this guy? Because I didn't know who he was. I had never heard of his name in my life. So some people were like, yeah, I knew him, but I wasn't really friends with him. Like, nobody was really, like, friends with him.

He had just kind of been around, and he was from the area that we live in, that I still live in. Some of the surrounding areas, apparently. So it was just very strange. And then we found out that it was a five-inch double-edged, like serrated, like blade, like a hunting knife or something. And apparently, I don't know. know who we heard this from, but I think somebody else, like, brought some knives in their backpack, and they were, like, some kind of special knives or something, and he had showed them to people. I don't think they were brandons. I think that somebody else that was there, like, had them,

and they were, like, put away in another room or something in a backpack. That's what I allegedly. So, yeah, it's, you know, my memory from that time, and I've said this so many times when I'm talking on, like, my TikTok and everything, that it was such a traumatic of, you know, my memory of, you know, my that my memory is a little boggled from all of them. It's really hard to sort it all out. And yeah, it's just there was so much going on, especially with like going to court and the people that were testifying and what everything that the ADA was saying, it was very overwhelming. And there was no, I didn't get reached out to by any victim assistance programs or anything.

It wasn't like there was any advocates that were, you know, reaching out and trying to help us navigate the process. It was just my mom, basically, that was trying to find out if there was any paperwork or something that we needed to do. And then the family, you know, there's so much that you deal with when somebody passes away regardless as far as just, you know, balancing out the end of somebody's life as far as their finances and their belongings and the pressure that that puts on a family in itself can be really difficult. But you put this on top of it too. It was just, oh, so his brothers had gone up there. I'm not sure how long later to try to pack up some of the things at his house. I never went back to that house again, but I had been there. And I was really just trying to

be there with my kids for the most part. And then my mom was getting a lot of information. But I did learn that when Brandon did what he did, he evaded through, I believe, three counties. So he left the scene, which I knew that at the time. And that they had. stopped him with spike strips and I think a dog pulled him out of the car. So I learned that. And that was probably like the order of how I had found out about things. And I have no idea when the rest started getting pieced together. It's like all. And honestly, probably even in just the last couple years of me talking to my friend Manny, learning more about what happened with the robbery at his house. So that's all. And that's why the story is so backwards because the story was

backwards for me too. So when all these people are like, can you just tell us what happened? I'm like, well, you know, there's parts of it that I think happened. And then there's like, you know, there's so many sides to every single story. Apparently Brandon has his own side too, which is why now I've had to speak out about it so much. And I can't just let it go and like let it be in the past because this person, this person should still be in jail for what he did is the way that I feel and a lot of other people feel too. Now Brandon's the one that killed your husband. Yes. Yes.

Brandon is the one that killed him. And apparently they had met each other like within the less like couple years prior to this. I don't think they knew each other prior to that. And they were friends. I don't think they were like best friends. But Ryan was the kind of person that was friends with everyone. He knew everyone. He was a great networker.

He had a lot of different friends. So this was one of his friends. They may have had some kind of attachment, something going on with each other. It's nothing that I know about or am I. I'm aware of at all. So when I went to court, I heard some of the girls that were there testifying. And it's mostly the same story of what happened. So this happened at 1230 at night. He is when they think that he died. He died very quickly. He bled out really fast. And they said that he was stabbed 18 times. And they stopped the, apparently the corner stops counting at 18. So I don't know if that's

always true, but 18 plus. So that's crazy. You know, when I think about that, when I heard that, I was so angry because I'm like 18 times with six other people there. How does that happen? Like one, two, three, four, five, six, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, 15, 16, 17, 18. I was literally doing that thinking that is a lot, you know, and like to do it with such force like that. That's aggressive. That's a major, like, heinous intent to really mutilate someone, you know, that takes a certain type of individual to be able to do something like that. And so when people ask me now, well, what did Ryan do? I've been, you know, very rarely, but that'll be a comment that some people make. And I think that is such a strange thing to say.

I mean, I guess if maybe Ryan had a knife, which he didn't, the people that were there say, Ryan was sitting on the couch. That's something that actually the detective had told us as well. that Ryan had been sitting on the couch. They weren't sure if he was ever able to stand or if he was attacked on the couch. The detectives could not figure that out. And I heard that straight from their mouth. The people that were there,

I was so frustrated that they couldn't give me a straight answer either, but they were also intoxicated and traumatized by what happened. Somebody ran out the door, a bunch of people scattered. His really good friend, Chris, lived with him. It was his roommate there. Chris didn't, I talked to Chris, but he was so distraught about what happened, he could barely talk about it.

He loved Ryan. He looked up to him so much. He, like, wanted to be just like him. So he held him while he died. And so he's just never been the same. His whole life is destroyed after that happened. He was already a little, like, trying to stabilize at that point himself, you know,

and then just went off the deep end after that. But he said that he actually thought that they were like wrestling or something. He didn't understand what was happening. Nobody understood what was happening. So the witnesses there all said that Brandon came into the room with the knife in his hand and that they were scared because of him acting so erratically. And he started yelling out, I'm not going back to jail.

I'm going out like a gangster and like saying all this crazy stuff. I'm not going back to jail. Yeah. Those are the two statements that I know that they were even in a lot of the articles and that we were told. So that nobody knew what that meant. Nobody knew what that meant. So one of the witnesses said that Ryan stood up and tried to take the knife away from him because everybody thought that he was getting crazy and coming at them and it was very erratic. Another person said that Ryan didn't never stand up and that he just started attacking him.

The thing that I thought was so weird about that is that, so it would have been like if I was sitting right here on the couch and then there would be a kitchen table right behind us. and then the TV would be where you are. And so there was like a living room and then the kitchen kind of wrapped around over here. So somebody said that there were people sitting over at this table and that Brandon had been sitting at the table and stood up and then attacked him from around the corner,

which would kind of make sense because if he was attacked on this whole side and Brandon was right-handed, I never really understood that. But this wasn't something that the detectives were even really that interested in. You know, it wasn't worth like really getting into. I don't think that they ever even cared to ask me. I had to tell them, I was on the phone. Like, do you not want me to tell you that I heard things or whatever? They didn't really do much of a job investigating.

And so I kept reaching out to try to get them to. But they kept telling us that this was just going to be a slam dunk. You know, we know that this guy did it. He fled the scene. As soon as he got done attacking Ryan, he went to the car. and the girl who was his girlfriend at the time, he grabbed her and said, we got to go, you know,

we're getting in the car. And as soon as they get in the car, he starts telling her, I killed him, I fucking killed him. And she was like, what? Because she didn't know. She'd been outside smoking a cigarette or something like that. And so he was like, yeah,

this is like some Bonnie and Clyde shit. You're my ride or die. And this is her statements. Well, that says a lot right there. Like, you know, what does this mean? You're not going back to jail. You're going out like a game. gangster, you're going out like Bonnie and Clyde.

In most situations, if the cops were chasing somebody that did something like this, they probably would have gone out like Bonnie and Clyde. But that's what's so crazy about this whole thing. It's like, how did all of this happen? And my mom even said, this guy's got to be like the luckiest guy in the world to get away with all the things that he has. So she was freaking out, you know? He just told her that he killed Ryan.

and so saying all this crazy stuff and she's like, let me out of the car, let me out of the car. And so he starts strangling her to the point where she had bruises on her neck for weeks after. And she throws herself out of the car and goes and runs and hides in the bushes. Well, we've talked to some of the friends that she's had for a long time in the past. And one of the friends had also told us, and this is alleged, obviously, that Brandon actually had been on a drug and alcohol binge for the, the days leading up to going to Ryan's house. So Brandon has since gone on now that he's out of

jail and done podcasts saying different things about that. So it sounded to me at the time, like this guy's been up doing drugs, partying for all this time. He went over there. It sounded like maybe he slept for a little while. They were working that day. And then they went out to dinner to an Applebee's, I think, that night. I want to say that even Ryan told me that they had gone. on to an Applebee's. And then came back to the house. Everybody was just chilling watching movies. Something happened, obviously.

Maybe there was a conversation. Maybe he was having a psychotic break. We never really knew. It was so frustrating to not have these answers. So in recent years, Manny and I have talked about this, is that Manny had had his house robbed on Valentine's Day. And so he was really upset about this. And he felt like the person who did it knew him.

And so he was really trying to figure it out. And he had suspected that maybe Brandon had done that. So he told me that he knew that Brandon was with Ryan. And so he texted Ryan that day. And he had somebody the date on February 22nd. So this was leading up to him killing him. He text Ryan and said, said, hey, so whoever did this, we're going to totally catch them because I have somebody

over here taking fingerprints off my TV right now. And he took a picture of it and he sent it to Ryan. And so our theory, and this is obviously just our theory, is that Brandon was the one that robbed him and that Ryan said something to him because Ryan knew that he did that and that he had maybe been coming into the room to talk to him about it. Well, I was on the phone with him because he was probably freaking out. Because we also what we believe and we were told, and I'm not sure if this is true or not, but Brandon had been on probation and cut off his ankle bracelet at the time.

So he was already in trouble. So this would make sense for I'm not going back to jail. I'm going out like a gangster. Because if Ryan said, dude, you're an idiot. You're about to get caught for this. Like, you're going to go down for doing this, you know, whatever, not my problem. and then Brandon probably started freaking out. And he was like on drugs.

So, I mean, not that anybody should do what he did. But the only motive that I can come up with and that anybody around can think of is that none of the witnesses says that there were an altercation. Nobody was fighting. Nobody, it was totally caught off guard. It wasn't like Brandon was defending himself, you know. So we go to court and the ADA is telling us that

this is a slam dunk. We know this guy did it. He evaded, you know, there's no question. There's witnesses. It's fine. So then one day after that, well, I had gone to that one court hearing when I had made some choice comments at him and his mom was there and said some very rude things to us and to his mom. She even came up to me and said to my kid about my kids. She said, well, it looks like your kids have uncles. So they'll be fine. It's so weird. This app shows that my credit score is pretty good, but I couldn't get the car loan. Are you using MyFICO.com? No, it's some other company.

Oh, you should get up MyFICO account instead. FICO scores are the ones used by 90% of lenders, and other credit scores can vary up to 100 points. That would have been helpful yesterday. Get the scores lenders used. Get the right FICO credit score for your credit goal, including your FICO scores used for mortgages, auto loans, and credit cards.

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Book now at Fiji Airways.com or contact your local travel agent. Conditions apply. That's crazy. Who says that? And then Ryan's mom was there grieving, sitting on a bench outside of the courtroom, crying. And she went up to her in front of me. And, you know, Jerry Ryan's mom said, you know, I just, I lost my son. I miss my son.

And then Gene Brandon's mom said, well, I miss my son too. He's in jail. Like it's just a level of like the lack of empathy is outstanding. It's really strange. It's strange. I've never dealt with anything like this ever. So I knew that this was not going to be a positive place for me to be. As much as I wanted to be there to advocate for Ryan, there wasn't much I could do.

So one of these court hearings, they pulled Ryan's brothers and his mom into a room very quickly, totally caught off guard. And the ADA suddenly was like, you know, they got an expert. and it's the expert that we normally hire because Brandon's mom, I think, mortgaged her house and paid for an attorney, I believe, out of San Francisco to come and represent him. So he did not have a public defender. And they hired this person

that was an expert to do a psychological evaluation. And they said that the expert is claiming that it's very difficult to prove intent. So we can't say that he had any intent because of how intoxicated or whatever his psychological state was, if he was insane or whatever, that there was no intent. So she made us believe and then believe that if he had won the insanity deal, that he could walk in like a week and just get out immediately. Well, we didn't know anything at the time. And they didn't know anything at the time. We never dealt with anything like this.

And nobody that we knew had dealt with anything like this before. So first of all, it's like less than one. 1% of cases where people plead insanity. It's very rare. And then about 25% of those actually will get off on an insanity plea. So it's definitely worth prosecuting still. But, you know, I'm sure that you know this, that it's most of the time you're offered a plea deal. It's expensive to go into litigation and all of that stuff to litigate and like go, you know, into having a full on trial. So Michael Moore had done a documentary, I want to say, in like the early 2000. about Nevada County specifically, and this is where this happened.

And he was, I know a lot of people don't like him, but it was just really interesting information. So he had gotten all of their numbers and statistics and everything. And I think out of almost just under a thousand different arrests, it was like one person actually had a trial. They're like known for that, which in the case of somebody who's innocent can really be terrible because they're scaring them into believing that if they try to fight it, that they'll get more time. So they take these plea deals. So a lot of people have claimed,

and there's so many comments. I was actually just kind of reading them again the other day. So many comments on that YouTube clip. And people are like, well, I have that same experience there. And then somebody else said, but, yeah, if you actually hire an attorney, though, then you're actually going to be on the other side of that because you can get off really easily because they don't want to put their prosecutors in those types of pressured situations.

and it's very expensive for them. So it's just, that is so wild to me. So they tell us that they're going to offer him 11 years. And we were just, I couldn't believe it. So once again, we're processing this death, you know, and just so beside ourselves about that. And then we find out that the guy that didn't isn't even going to really be going to jail for that long.

And so we were never okay with any of this. And most victims, families aren't. It's not, you know, there obviously are the few that I've heard of that have written books and everything about forgiveness and their stories and everything. And I think that every story is very different. I think that there's times when maybe somebody had killed somebody, you know, in a gang violence situation or a drunk driver where they were caught up with the wrong things and maybe that it was not like truly in their heart to hurt somebody, you know, like that. This is a very disgusting, direct killing, you know? So I can be so empathetic towards so many situations. And I really

try to put myself in other people's shoes and think about how they could rehabilitate or how they, you know, may have felt because of their circumstances at the time. This isn't one of those things for me at all. This is very cut and dry. I feel like there's a place for that. This isn't a place for that. And I feel like with murders, and I know, I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to say that, since he didn't get murder, but... You got manslaughter. Yeah. And that's probably because of the drugs and the alcohol.

Well, here's the thing. Voluntary intoxication is not grounds for an insanity plea. Just because you decide to get wasted, you knew at the time that you got wasted. So anything that you do after that is your responsibility and you need to be accountable for it. So if you just go and do a bunch of drugs and kill someone, I mean, there's so many stories. We even found a story of a guy that did a bunch of mushrooms and, like, ate his room. mate.

Yeah, and the cops got there and he was still like wandering around. I think he was on PCP too or something crazy like that. And he didn't get an insanity deal. Like that's crazy. This guy evaded, made the statement about like, yeah, I fucking killed him, you know? Like, what? And like, it's just crazy to me. So you can't get that.

So we were informed. And I don't know if this is true or not. But it sounds like when they, went to go and get the evaluation done of him that he may have had some like let's just say a like concussion or something like falling off a dirt bike and having a concussion like I don't know what the reason would be that you would have a problem with yourself prior to getting all fucked up and doing something like this to do that but I've had a concussion a lot of people have had a concussion

So I don't know if that would be grounds for that either, but somehow, some way, they got this expert to believe that that would be possible. Oops, fine. So, okay, this guy's crazy. If somebody's crazy and they're crazy enough to do something like that, what's to say that he's not crazy right now? Did he get rehabilitated in San Quentin playing baseball? Because that's what we saw happening the whole time.

I mean, if you're that crazy that you're just one line of cocaine away from stabbing somebody 18 times, I don't think that you should be out on the street at all. I don't care about redeeming yourself. Like this is not about that. If you want to find God and find like some like redemption, I think that that's great. But you should still be doing it behind bars. You chose to take someone else's life. And so that's the sacrifice that you make.

You don't just get to come out and be like on the main stage as Mr. Celebrity and having us watch that. Because Ryan's not here to do that. whatever he did as far as like getting addicted to pain killers or anything else he doesn't he's not even here to defend himself or to be who he would be in his late 40s right now and see what kind of man he would be and how he would be helping people you know that's something that brandon talks about a lot now is like the people that he's helping the lives that he's changing he's also changed some lives for the worst you know which we don't take it that way we don't take it as the worst because we're all doing very well in our lives. We've learned so much from the loss of Ryan.

Ryan taught us so much and through his death has taught us so much. But I'm not going to celebrate the person that took his life away. I think that's really unfair. Do you think law enforcement cared more about getting justice or getting a conviction? I don't think that they cared about any of it. I think that it's a revolving door. I think it's a bunch of paper pushing and it's a business. The way that it seems to me is that the whole system is about money. And it's about how much money you're going to make them, you know, which I mean, I don't even know that Brin's paid serious restitution. The only restitution that I think he paid was under $1,000 for something, which was kind of crazy. But they didn't have to, you know, the county didn't waste any money on

their, um, uh, the public defender. And then they didn't have to do a whole trial with their ADA or anything like that. So it just seems like they were just pushing us through. My mom went in there to talk to the ADA at one point and she comes to the door barefoot. Like it was very unprofessional and just like we were in the twilight zone. It was definitely you want to get away with something. Go to Auburn. Go to Nevada County because they really don't seem to care that much. I mean, it was just, it was horrific. We wrote letters to the judge. My mom did everything that she could to stop this from happening. And they just pushed it right through. I don't think that cared about either. Did you speak at a sentencing? I didn't because I felt like it would be really

emotional and difficult and I was really in a place of anger at that time. So I wrote a letter and my mom went and read it for me. I also, my mom told me about Brandon's statement at the time, which I kind of remember, but he basically kind of played it off like he just can't even believe that that happened and that he felt bad. I think that he said, and I'm not sure if this was in his statement or this was a statement later, that he had a picture of Ryan hanging in his cell and that he, you know, feels bad that he did that or whatever. But it was never, everything that he said is just always felt very topical and almost like sociopathic, where there's not really any emotion. It's kind of just like a blank person, you know, just saying what they need to say.

I also remember they said that when he came to, because he, I think, was hospitalized or something like that in custody after he was arrested. And so the next morning he was like, what, what happened? Like, where are they? Like, acting like there was people attacking him or something. Like, which I have to say, if you were, let's just say, all messed up one night and then you knew that you did something crazy, plane done the next morning would probably be a good move, you know? Like, oh, what happened? Oh, where's those guys that were attacking me?

You know, I don't, it's just this is all very, like, hard for me to believe. And when he was in jail, so he had gotten sentenced and went to San Quentin, we saw him on the local news channel getting into a baseball program. And I mean, 11 years isn't that much. This probably, we saw that maybe in 2015 or 2016. So just a few years later, he's in this whole different area. He totally protected right there. It's not like, I don't think that you stay in the same general population when you're a part of this program. On TV, doing all this stuff.

like, what kind of a punishment is that? And I get that there's rehabilitation programs, but this seemed like a summer camp to me. I mean, you would know more than me. No, so I mean, one of the facilities I was at was a summer camp club fed. He was in the state, Brandon, so his was definitely a little bit harsher than mine. Not saying it wasn't summer campy, but that's why it's so important to have this conversation because it shows how you are feeling the other side, which is what we rarely hear about. And that's what I wanted you here today to do because this is such a fascinating perspective

that I think more of our audience will relate to the ones that have never been to prison because this could happen to anyone. Yeah, which isn't something that you think. Yeah. Well, I mean, you never know when your last conversation is going to be with someone or just anything. Right. When did it hit you that your last conversation with him was an argument? Right.

away. I mean, the next day, like probably later in the day. And that never really, not until years later, that kind of, it doesn't necessarily bother me, but it definitely affects the way that I communicate with people now. I don't like to leave things on bad terms. I like to respect the conversation. I don't think that Ryan was mad at me. I mean, he sent me that last text, but I definitely think that it's important to be intentional with the way that we treat people and the way that we communicate with the people that we love because you just don't know. And we think that people are going to die when they're old.

And I always thought that. And so now I really just worry about every single scenario of somebody happening to somewhat. And I just want them to know that I love them. After this happened, how long did it take you to get back into your own life again, whatever normal could be at that point, dating again, rebuilding everything like that afterwards? You know, so I had had had,

concert tickets to go to a really cool show that I'll have to tell you about because you'll appreciate it. And my cousin and I had these tickets for a while. And it was like three months after Ryan passed away. And I was not going to go. I said, there's no way. I'm not going to go to a concert right now. It's super weird. And so we weren't going to go.

And it was like really late. It was actually like May 830 or 9. And my cousin called me and he was like, should we just like maybe put these on Craigslist or something? Or do you want to just go? Should we just drive and just go? and we could just leave and just use the tickets because we're not going to be able to sell these. And I was like, whatever. Fine, let's just go.

Ryan would want me to go. Ryan always said yes to things. He always said yes that he would go. And so we went that night and we ended up having such a fun night together. My cousin's like 18 months younger than me and he's just the best. We've just been best friends since we were with little babies. And so we had so much fun. And then I think it was that night.

And I know this is only three months later, but life is happening still. And you feel guilty about that. You feel really guilty about enjoying life after somebody passes, especially like this. But to me, you know, Ryan always wanted to go out and say yes to things and do things. He was so great in the gym. He actually bought me my first gym membership and taught me how to work out. And so whenever I wouldn't go work out, he would inspire me to go work out. And going out that night and having so much fun, I realized that everything that I do I should do with intention and saying yes to experiences.

like I just said, because he wanted to live. He loved life, like loved life. So how disrespectful would that be to his memory for me not to live life when that was what his whole message was? I feel like that was our bond and what he taught me. So I had to carry that forward. And I feel like ever since then, I've been way more of an outgoing person. So it did change me for the better in a lot of ways because I feel that the people that we

connect with, they live through us. And that's how we carry them on. That's their legacy. So we have to be able to move on with our life. And I didn't have any serious relationships. I did date a couple people, but very short term, like less than a year. And then it wasn't until I think 2019 or 2018 that I got into a serious relationship. So then we fast forward to more recent time, you know, all of these years have since that incident and it gets brought back to the spotlight again, which I can assume that could even hurt just as bad as it did the night you found out or the morning you found out. Well, I'm a different person now than I was then.

So the response is, you know, I have two little kids with my current partner and we are all doing so well. Me and Chase and Rhafe and my family is all thriving. I mean, I could not be any more happy with our situation and grateful for all of it. So that's important to know because I think that some people assume that, you know, you're still not in a good space if you're revisiting this. But when you do have it come up in your face all of the time, I mean, it's not easy to avoid when somebody is, like I said, putting them up on the main stage and trying to become a public figure,

I know a lot of people. I have a lot of friends. Ryan had a lot of friends. Now we, you know, that was brought a lot of attention to us even more so. I know a lot of people. And so having people constantly tell me, I saw Brandon. He was at the barbershop. Oh, I heard that this. I heard he was at this restaurant because when he got out. So that's the other thing is that some people are like, how could he move back there? There should be laws against that. Well, when you get paroled out, you have to go back to the county that you were living in at the time. He didn't have to come back to that city. I mean, that was the city that Ryan was born in, and I live in a little outskirt city. Right. Right. I mean, it's like eight minutes away. And so he moved right back into the heart of that town. And it's a small town. It's a town called Petaluma.

And it's like an old school, like Italian rancher town in Northern California. Everybody knows everybody there. So people seeing him, it was extremely inappropriate for him to be there. And I kept hearing about it. And then I was concerned that my kids are going to run into him. And although they are very. like emotionally developed. They've done so much work on themselves more than some 35 year old men already. You know, they're pretty awesome. Still, when you see somebody that murdered your dad,

like, how is that going to make them feel? I mean, this is so much to do with me being a protective mom also. I mean, I've protected them since they were born going through this whole process of, you know, learning about what happened to their dad, process and the feelings about, him looking this up online for all of these years and seeing all this information, trying to piece together what happened themselves and understand why they don't have their dad in their life. You know, it makes me angry that that's the only part of this that makes me angry. When I think about him, I don't really have a lot of feeling because I feel we are so above

this person that he doesn't really emotionally affect me because I think that he is just not even on a level, like he's not an emotionally developed person, in my opinion. So I can't even let that person affect me. Of course, somebody who is psychotic would be acting the way that he's acting right now. Somebody that has the ability to stab somebody that many times and do something so disgusting would totally act the way that he's acting. It's not about him. It's about the fact that justice wasn't served. He's telling a whole different story now. I'm having to hear about it all the time. People are telling me about all of these profiles.

So I also, after, once we found out, go back for a second, once we found out that he was living in Petaluma, I was so outraged and I actually did call his parole officer and talk to him about that. And so he explained it and he was really nice. But I decided that I was going to flyer the town. So I made flyers. I don't know if you ever saw that.

I saw that TikTok. Oh, yeah. So I made flyers showing his picture, explaining the story. I took it out from, you know, the articles and the things that happened to make sure it was all very factual and posted on every single business in our downtown area. And then also went into other areas, like where there's shopping centers and put them up on the post boards, and the shopping centers. And that was actually on Halloween.

So there was a lot of people out. and there was a whole downtown trick-or-treat thing. And so a lot was going on. And that was Halloween to 2024. No, that I think would have been 23. So this was last year? It must have been last year. Okay.

Must have been. Yeah. And how much time did he end up serving, total? Well, I think that it was less, I think it was 11 years, right? No, he got out in 2022. So I think it was about 10 years. We were also told, and I don't know if this is true or not, But my mom found this information out that he stabbed somebody in jail.

I don't know if that's true. But it's possible. I don't know how to find that out. So a lot of the times those types of things, they decline prosecution unless someone actually dies. There are cases where they will get charged. But in most cases, those types of violence go, they could just happen. They'll just lose some good time, which is pretty crazy. And it contributes to the violence in the prison system.

Yeah, that's crazy. and assaulted a CO, I think, as well. That's what we were told. I don't know if that's true. That could be wrong, and I don't want to put any more on this guy than what he's already done. Speaking of that,

he had already a violent history. And I am friends with a girl who is still, to this day, terrified of him. And I became friends with her after Ryan died. A lot of people that, you know, came out of the woodwork to support me. I didn't know them before, but she felt so guilty about having dated him

and we became really good friends. And she told me that he was so violent. he said or she said that he would like attack her like a football player and just beat the crap out of her. And she's still terrified of him and thinks that he is just like the devil. So all of these stories, I'm like, how can somebody that has a history of violence and has been in trouble for violence and then does this and he can get out in 10 years? I also knew someone who, you know, went to jail for 10 years and was in San Quentin for, like having a gun on him and you know different things like that i mean people go away for longer for drug charges well i mean uh sex offenders got less time than say me or a lot of other people too it's it's

crazy crazy that's crazy and i don't know how to make sense of that but something is wrong with the system i mean it's so unfair and it's it's not um it's just like kind of all over the place because you have state you have federal you have different judges right even think a lot of those judges read the letters because they get so many. I would love to see statistics on how many judges actually read the letters. You know, I just really hope that AI is used to help this. Seriously, because a lot of this information could be plugged into AI. And one of the big things that AI is going to do is there will be like legal aspects of it.

You know, there's going to be different like AI companies that will, you know, be like lawyers, doctors. Like it's going to take some jobs. but I think that it will be able to sort through a lot of information, hopefully more quickly and maybe help some of this. I don't know. But I think even the idea of like the plea deals all the time rather than actually like seeing things through causes a lot of these issues.

It seems that that's what's going on, especially with all the people that have reached out to me and they tell me their stories. This is super common. So were you notified of his release like by the prosecutors, anyone? No. You had to find out on your own. Yeah.

Wow. Mm-hmm. Because we were not together, right? and I. So when, which is frustrating because we were and we were like reunifying our relationship at the time. But because of us being separated for those last couple years with all that going on, nobody really understood like our private relationship and what was happening. So I wasn't really being treated as the victim or the wife. And then even the fact that I was raising the boys, it's like they kind of just cut us off from everything. So like I said, there was no like victim advocacy

or help paying for any of the programs. I mean, I've spent well over $100,000 on programs for the boys as a single mom, which is crazy. And so when people say stuff to me on TikTok, like, oh, you're just here to monetize. I fucking hope so. Like, can we recover some of that? Because there was no GoFundMe at that time in 2012. That was right before GoFundMe started getting rolling and people started doing that. I see people raise, like, tens of thousands and dollars in days for things that.

like this, you know, this is crazy. So there was no help at all. Meanwhile, they're raising money for Luigi. Yeah. Well, GoFundMe shut that down, but. Did they? Yeah, they shut it because I guess it goes against the terms. Oh.

I thought that was a little crazy. Yeah. But. Yeah. That's definitely a different type of a situation. So, yeah, I mean, it's been difficult. And then, you know, they did say that later restitution was set aside. Restitution was set aside for him.

And so that was never revisited. I mean, it wasn't, we never got anything. We never helped anything. I don't know if he had to pay. At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light, and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV!

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and Hemming are registered trademarks of FCAUS LLC. For everything that happened as far as, like, evading and all the stuff that went down that night. But weren't you technically still married though on paper? Like a separation isn't a divorce, right? Yeah, it's just, I don't know. Maybe it was because of the duration of the time that had gone by. I have no idea.

Did you ever have to file, like, divorce papers afterwards? Or how does that work when someone passes and you're still legally married, right? I never dealt with that. Oh, so it just goes away naturally? I guess. Oh. Do you still have his last name?

I did for a really long time. I just changed it because I have a new partner now. And so we have little kids too. And I felt like it was time to just take. I'm Bishop again. I'm taking back my last name. And that's who I'm going to be. It's a lot.

There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. It's a good last name, Bishop. Yeah. So why did he wait two years then to get on social media? I thought he had got out more recently. I'm not sure. exactly how that all happened and why they got on social media, but it was earlier on this year,

I want to say maybe in April or May, that close friends of mine knew that I don't have a TikTok. I mean, I had posted a couple things, but I never really used TikTok. And so I was getting stopped randomly throughout my day when I'm not thinking about this, you know, and people asking me if I've seen the TikToks. And I'm like, no? And they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so upset about this. And Brandon's wife is on there. And, you know, she has been. been not very empathetic this whole time. She actually reached out to me while Brandon was still in jail because of some of the things that I had been posting on Facebook. And she had shared their marriage when he was in jail. And then there was a family photo of them because she had, I believe,

three kids when they got together already with someone else. And so she brought the kids into the prison and they would go visit him and see him all the time. And so I reposted the photos that she posted. and she was pissed that I posted her kids. And I'm just like, you married somebody who killed my kid's dad and you brought your children to San Quentin to meet him and you're worried about me posting their picture that you already posted on social media. This is a you problem, like not a me problem.

I just didn't have very much empathy towards that. And so she told me that I needed to find God and that I'm the problem and that I'm going to be raising my kids. just in this negative light and insulted me as a parent. I mean, it was just weird to me that she even had the audacity. Because if you're going to reach out to me for that, you should reach out to me and apologize and say, I'm so really sorry for your loss.

And I just want you to know that, you know, I married Brandon and I want to send my condolences to you or something like that. You know, but there's never been any of that, not from any of them. It's always been a lot of excuses and pity for themselves, a lot of victimization. from themselves and like really flipping the script, which is what abusive people and narcissists do. So it's just awful. I mean, that it just makes it. That's like rubbing salt in the wounds. How could I have empathy for you?

And you don't even have empathy for me. It's just strange. So, yeah, I mean, that whole union was crazy. And so she started posting on TikTok, you know, a bunch of content about him. And like, she was labeling herself as the pretty. and wife and that he was, you know, this convict that she married and everybody said that it wasn't going to work out or I married this guy. Now he does all my housework for me and like kind of thirst trapping him with videos of him with his shirt on and just glorifying him because of,

you know, being a criminal, I guess. And so I just, at first I was like, I don't care. I'm not on TikTok. I'm not going to look at it. I don't want to give them even a view. I don't want to look at their stupid faces. Like, I don't care. And then I started hearing more about it. And one of the girls that I met because of this, actually, so the press Democrat, which is a local newspaper where we lived, did an article about us. And they also interviewed Brandon. And I was like, great, because then it was just him kind of countering like, okay, well, I'm a really good person now, you know, and it just really takes away from what he did. So, um, there was somebody who reached out to me that also had her boyfriend was murdered and the killer had gotten 10 years and she was really upset about the same thing. And so a lot of people have reached out to me with this story. Well, she reached out to me and said that she had seen the TikToks and she was totally upset about it. She said, I left probably 100 comments on there. And she said, there's tons of people on there that want to hear from you. And they want to know where you guys are. And I thought, well, that's amazing because I thought this whole time that nobody cared and that all these people were supporting them and just where.

humanity. Does anybody care about the victim and what happened and where we are? Nobody cared. Nobody has cared this whole time. The ADA didn't care. The judge didn't care. Nobody has cared. So, I mean, and I felt like nobody cared even when I was raising the boys. You know, people come out real tough when somebody dies. They want to show up. They want to be a part of the big process and the drama. We're going to be there for you. But when the rubber hits the road, people are not usually there for you. When we're going through the teenage years and my kids are rebelling and they don't have their dad there, I was the one that was there, you know. And so they forget about the trauma.

And like I said, you know, if this happened very initially and we had to go fund me, that could have at least helped alleviate some of the financial struggle that was going on along the way. But I'm almost glad that it didn't because it forced me to really step into the role and hustle. I had to figure it out. Like there was no way that I was going to do anything that was going to destabilize my kids. I didn't want to move out of that house. I wanted to make sure that everything else was going to be as stable. possible that I could control.

And so I had to do whatever I had to do, which made me such a stronger person. This has all been a total journey for me as well. So, yeah, leading up to that and then finding out that all these people on TikTok wanted to hear from us, I just knew I had to come to show up to the party. You made quite the entrance when I saw that at TikTok. We're not having good editing skills. For anyone listening, it's pinned on your profile, I believe. You have to check out her first video.

That's the one that went really viral. Immediately. Yeah, that was the very first one. And I just, it popped into my head the night before. I knew I needed to do it. It was one of those things where, like I said, somebody else takes the wheel and you're just like, this is what I'm going to say. And this is what I'm going to do. This is the first thing.

And I kind of had a little idea. I wanted to do another one after that that showed Ryan and humanized him. And it all just took off so quick. quickly and I was so nervous that nobody was going to support us and so many people did. And it was the first time that we really felt that level of support and from strangers all over the world. And that doesn't matter. You know, every single one of those comments, I tried to read as many of them as I could.

I would go through and look at them. I mean, when you don't have a viral page like that and everything goes viral, you're just like, oh my gosh. It's a great feeling. It's a really good feeling, especially when it's something like this. It's not just like I did a makeup tutorial, you know. People are like, oh my God, I love your lipstick. It's like...

I'll never understand those like 15 second videos. I get six, 700,000 views. Yeah. Get ready with me. Right. I don't get it. But I guess there's a market for it. I don't even get any of it because it's like what goes viral and what doesn't.

I have no idea. I still don't. I'm just really lucky and I believe that it was meant to be that that did take off and that we were able to get our story out and reach so many people and tell the truth. Because, you know, once we saw that happen. on TikTok and saw the posting, we found, well, my son actually first, prior to me doing my TikTok, my oldest son found a podcast that Brandon had done. And it's been since taken down since I came out. And I don't know what reason, but it was right after all of my content started going viral. We went back to go find it and it's gone now. So that's interesting. And a few

people, though, had taken screen recordings of it. And there was already content coming out about this because people started researching. There's so many good detectives on TikTok. They will find out. And so she started posting whatever she was posting and people were going online, searching it and finding it. And they were getting a bunch of hate messages. So that's what my friend told me is that people want to hear from you. They're not okay with it now. And I was like, amazing. That's great. But there was other content creators that had come out with such great content that were covering this. And I'm like, this is so wild that there's these viral content creators that are making content about our story and I'm not even there you know and like I do although I'm not a great editor I do know how to

make content so um you know I started watching them and people were sending them to me and they were showing pictures of Ryan and showing pictures of me and saying our names and I was like this is really almost overwhelming and that people care and I want to come and you know say it from my perspective as well and for my kids. And so I asked them if it was okay and they were like, yeah, mom, like that's great. Let's do it. You know, go for it. You got to do it. You got to do it. And so that Saturday, there was something that she posted that was really going viral. And then all these other people were really, you know, talking about it. And so I posted on Sunday, Sunday morning. I posted what I came out with. And I did three posts that day. And in two days, there was 20,000 followers,

were over 40,000 right now, which is wild because it's still going off. There's still people going to it. I've had multiple news reporters reach out to me to cover the story. Somebody from people reached out to me. So I just didn't know that it was that interesting of a story, I guess, because it's our story. And we've dealt with it and lived with it for so long. And it just felt like nobody really cared. And so, yeah, it's just really a lot of kindness there.

Yeah, I think that's a blessing. the curse of social media is it has this ability to share your story, but also the curse of it is you have the negative side of the story, which is what you witness, but it's good that you're able to counter it, which is, it's also interesting that, you know, our worlds have collided because my page, I'm sure you looked at it the first time when I messaged you, is a lot of former criminals, except for the law enforcement ones, but are sharing their stories. Right. Now, I will say, like, a lot of the people that have murdered someone that have been on the show, it was all kind of like gang, criminal related.

Not to say that that makes it okay, but it was very different scenarios of these individuals that come on here. But it does, you know, pose a question, how you feel about that when you saw that for the first time and those types of clips and stuff. Well, I wasn't sure where you were coming from. Yeah. I was like, is he going to try to trap me and like flip the script on me or like what's going on? because although, like I said, there's so many people that are saying positive things, there's like 1% of people that will come on my page and be like, you need to move on with your life, go find a new man to get your mind off of it or something. And this guy did his time, which we don't feel is correct. We never felt that's correct. And saying things like that. So I think that, you know, just not knowing what people's intentions are at first. And so I was really glad that we talked, though, and you explained that because the other thing that we found is that not only, and this is like the biggest part, is that. But not only did he go to his wife go on TikTok and all of these other things that they're doing, but he has also created a website and his Instagram profile portrays him as a Christian life coach that helps people redeem themselves, I guess, from difficult situations and bring themselves up out of the ashes.

And even that podcast that he did, it was, you know, a survivor story. Like, I survived prison. It was titled something like that, like survival, life after prison, survival. I feel like you're shooting at me right now. I got an episode titled I Survive Prison. Okay, but when you have killed somebody and you say you survived, this is a very different context. And I think that this is why that there are the people out there that try to object to me.

Because, you know, there are the people who maybe have a family member that were caught up in gang violence, which I feel that there is so many layers to that and the reason why these communities even have drugs and violence there, there's a lot to that. you know and a lot of that that that's not those communities false that's because of some really gross things that our government did and lack of community funding and education and so much else that's going on there and so these people fall into you know gang life and drug dealing and that's what those environments are like and so there could be like a shootout or something crazy and it's not so personal, like when somebody's up in your face stabbing you in the face.

Those are two totally different things. And so when people don't, not to say that somebody who gets shot in gang violence, you know, that it's not horrible that people lost that person. But do you understand what I mean? Like, it's just a different, it's a different intention, I guess, and a different place that that person might be coming from. And so I do feel like in those situations that, you know, they can be forgiven or whatever. which I think forgiveness is also something that's different for everyone.

And, you know, for religious people that are, you know, people who are very religious and they tell me that, like, I need to forgive and everything. And I mean, it's not about that for me. That's God's job to forgive. That's a choice for me if I want to forgive. That's a choice. And I could forgive somebody for sure. I would prefer to forgive somebody for doing that if they're still in jail for it.

I mean, he totally, what he did to my kids and my big. biggest thing is that my sons don't know their dad. They don't remember his voice at all. When they hear videos and I pull up old videos for them, they're like, gosh, I didn't even know his voice or what his laugh sounded like, the things that he, with his little jokes and things that he would do, which is crazy to me because I knew him so well, you know, it's like my family. And so to know that they will never experience that. And then now them being adults and seeing the way that they are and so many characteristics that they have of his, even the way that they talk and the way that they carry themselves. And that was just something that genetically got to them because they weren't even

around him for all that time and that they don't know him. And to think about what their relationship would be like today and how proud they would be of each other, he took that away. And he has the audacity to come out and say how he didn't get to be with his stepchildren for a whole 11 years because he was in prison. And can you even imagine that? Or he said on his podcast that we found, that he cannot empathize with us. I can't even begin to empathize, you know, with the family and how the kids feel. That's a strange statement. If I did something like that, first of all, if I did something like that and I came to the next day

and I really truly was blacked out and just had some kind of a psychotic episode. And I found out that I killed my friend. Lock me up. Like, I don't want to be out. If I'm that dangerous of a person, I need to be out of here. Like that's not a normal thing to do. I would never be able to accept that. And I would be so apologetic to the family of what I did by taking their family's life, you know.

And I definitely wouldn't say it's really hard for me to empathize, you know, with the family and the kids. That's a strange thing to me. And that's the closest thing to like maybe is that accountability? I don't know. We found another podcast that he did where he told a way different story. And it looks like that was when he first got out of jail. He's a little bit more rough around the edges there. And he told a totally different story where he was describing a whole situation where he was up on a hill like he was on Murder Mountain or something.

Have you ever seen The Murder Mountain show? There's a show. And so up in Northern California, there's a lot of weed growers up there. And there's an area that's called Murder Mountain. And it's like what you think it would be like on a movie or something probably. I don't know. I've never been there. but it's like we're like off-grid growers are and it's super sketchy and they say that like people

die out there and you don't find them and people get away with it or whatever. So he's like, you know, we were out up on the hill and there were some people there that were sketchy and there was some drama going on. And, you know, I knew I probably should have left and I had been sober for like six months. I'm starting to do. That's how he talks. So he said that he had been sober for all this time. I don't know about that. And then that he knew there was some drama. And Ryan had some drama going on and that he didn't want to look like a bitch. So he stayed and that they went out to eat and that while he was there, he made the mistake of having a couple of drinks.

And so that, and then all he said, and then they went back to the house and then stuff got weird. And Ryan punched him in the face, he said. He said, and then Ryan hit me. and I saw a knife sitting on the table, so I grabbed it, and then I just blacked out. He says this, and I'm like, well, that is a complete contradiction to everything else that we've heard from you so far, even to the second podcast. That's a different story. And then he also said on that first podcast right after that that he justified it while he was in jail because he believed that Ryan was a Fed. Like, what?

Like, this is a whole other, like, this is crazy. Like just that whole story alone. So one minute you're saying that you have his picture hanging up in yourself and you feel so horrible about it. The next one, you're justifying it because he was a Fed and there was drama going on that day that that Ryan had. I mean, it was just his stories have been all over the place. This is not somebody who's accountable.

This isn't somebody who is empathetic or, you know, redeeming himself. This is a bunch of lies. I don't even know if he knows what the story is at this point. But if he had told that. story, they would have never gone after, you know, the threat of the insanity plea. Those are two totally different things. So I think that was what was the most alarming thing to my son is that he's looking at this and he's like, Mom, you got to look at this. He's telling the story. We've never heard the story before. So now he's on podcast telling the story and we're

hearing it. And this is like to us, I mean, everything's happened on TV and over the phone. We never got to see Ryan. We never got to really be hands on with any of this. We weren't there when he died, obviously, and we got to see him on TV playing baseball. Now we're seeing him on social media telling his story. So for people to tell me that we should not have a voice in this is very disrespectful. Has he ever reached out to you? He reached out to Chase, actually, the day that my content went viral or the day after. And that's your oldest son?

Yes. Which that timing is so impeccable because I feel that that was super inappropriate, first of all, to reach out to my 21-year-old son. Chase had actually found his phone number a couple years ago when he first got out of jail and he found out that he was living in Petaluma. And he said to him, I just, this is Chase. And he's going to get mad if I quote him wrong.

So I'm not going to say this is specific. But he said something to the effect that, you know, if I see you, I'm not going to, I don't care. I'm not going to do anything to you, but you need to basically keep your head down and keep walking away from me, like kind of thing. I don't know what else he said. It was something to that effect.

And then obviously Brandon never responded to that. So he texted him, I want to say the day after all my content was going viral and said, Hey, Chase, this is Brandon. And I just, you know, I couldn't respond to you before because of my parole terms. But I just want to let you know that if there's anything that I could do to bring healing to you or your family, I'm open to it. Which is also maybe to someone else like you that may sound appropriate, but to us and to me, sounds totally inappropriate. And the timing of that, to me it sounds like you just had your whole plan blown up

because my content went viral and exposed you. And so now you're pulling straws and trying to get my son to accept an apology from you and whatever that. I mean, that wasn't even an apology. It was just like, you know, to me, I feel that it's totally rude for him to think that he has this amount of control. You want to bring healing to us. You think that you can control our emotions, that you are the one that can cause us to heal.

After all the work that we've done to heal and everything that we've had to do to process this, I don't really see what work he's really done. I mean, to call yourself a life coach and to do all of this, I mean, I know life coaches. I actually had a life coach when I was going through this whole process. I had an NLP life coach, and I went through, I don't know if you know what NLP is, but it's amazing. It's neurolinguistic programming, and it's a way to reprogram your mind based off of your internal language and the way that you communicate with other people. And so, you know, I did like a whole summer of that

and got a certificate in that. And it was really healing for me because it really is about, you know, perspectives and understanding your map of the world and other people's map and how to communicate with them. I would never just all of a sudden brand myself as a life coach, as much work as I've done and as many books as I've read.

And so to suddenly go from one year being someone who can stop somebody in the face over 18 times and then now I'm a life coach. to us that's like, yeah. I mean, I guess that there's, you know, like you've interviewed a lot of people that have come out and had a redemption story and might, you know, participate in these types of things. But I think this is to such an extreme. And I don't see the point where this work was done.

I don't know where you, like for him, not for them, but like for him, like, where did you get all of this knowledge and wisdom to where you think that you are so entitled to be able to having an impact? on people's life like this. Like that to me is again a joke and just like I don't even feel like this person could even be on our level. So whoever could hire him, I don't even know where you'd find those people. It sounds really crazy to me. I mean, even with the people that I've interviewed, I'm sure there's plenty of people that have the same opinion you do about those people.

Like everyone will always have something, a negative opinion of someone because of a personal matter that's happened between them, you know? Just like your example with Brandon, you'll always have that negative opinion towards him because he affected your lives in a negative way. And that is the same for others who have been on the show and who do have redemption stories.

Like, to put it this way, I could have very well have had Brandon here and he could have shared that redemption story and the listeners would have heard a redemption story from his own lens, what we don't hear all the time from the lenses of these other stories that we have are the use of the world who shine, okay, well, maybe they're not. Here's the other side of this redemption story that's being put out there.

So I think that's important, too, to hear both perspectives. Yeah. And I think that there also is a place in many situations in our lives where forgiveness can come into play to where we could accept someone's redemption story. You know, if somebody truly was sorry. for what they did and accountable for what they did and, you know, showed humility and all of the things that come along with that. It's not just as simple as saying, I found God and now I'm a life coach. There's so much more that comes with that. It's not just as simple as, hey, I'm here

for offering healing to your family. There's an emotion and a feeling and actions that should all come before that. And none of that happened. And none of that was felt. And none of that was seen. So I'm not, you know, I think that there's a lot of situations even where victims might be able to have some empathy and forgiveness in these situations and be okay with those stories. But I just, for us, this is not one of them. Yeah. I mean, I think actions speak louder than words. Yeah. For a variety of, you know, things and anything in life, actions speak louder than words. 100%. Would you ever sit down with Brandon? And if so, what would you say to him? No, I wouldn't, because I have nothing to say to him. You know, I,

I don't, his voice does not matter to me, basically. His opinion doesn't matter to me. What he has to say to my kids, what he has to say to me. He's an irrelevant human in my world. So I just wouldn't even want to give it my time or energy to speak to him because I don't think I could believe anything that comes out of his mouth. I think it's all very self-centered. And once, you know, this is a really good way for him to try to monetize and make money

to paint this picture, which, you know, for his situation, I think is really inappropriate. And yeah, I just, I wouldn't. What do you think is the biggest learning lesson and takeaway you've gotten from all of this, all of your experience with this whole situation throughout all these years and even now? I think that you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. You know, there's been so many things in this situation that have made me more. uncomfortable than anything in my entire life and going back to like being a kid and getting bullied and being really uncomfortable in that situation, all of these things have made me so much

stronger and made me who I am. And so I think that because of that, I want to be able to support other people. I want to be able to inspire them, but inspire people in a way that they believe in themselves because it's really easy, you know, people come to me all the time and they're like, you're so strong and you're so inspiring and I wish I could be like that. And I was uncomfortable and not like willingly uncomfortable. You know, I was forced into that situation. And you just don't know how much you can accomplish and who you really are until you have that pressure put on you. And so I don't like it that much when people tell me that when they are like, oh, you're so inspiring and you're so strong because I think everybody is really inspiring and

strong and they just don't know that about themselves yet. And so I don't want it to just be this like place for me to put myself on a pedestal. I was forced into that. And I would have never believed that I could be who I am and where I am if you told me this like 15 years ago. So I want other people to realize that that we all are capable of that and we put that stop on ourselves to make ourselves think that we're not capable of things because of that verbiage, just like I was talking about with NLP. You're neurologically programming yourself with your words. So the language that you use is so important. I'm glad you sat down with me. I'm hopefully it was what you expected it to be, if not better. Great. Yeah, no, it's been great. You're easy to talk to. Thank you. I'm doing my job,

right? Yeah. And if you ever need anything, please reach out. And especially when you start your podcasting and whoever I can connect you to, I'm happy to do so. Thank you. Appreciate that. And safe travels back to the warmth. Yeah, back to the West Coast. we go. You actually got lucky here because it's nice today. It's been nice the whole time we've been here. Yeah, it's been in the 30s or 20s like literally two days before. I brought the warmth with us. Yeah, lucky. I hate the cold. Well, safe travels back and thanks again. Thank you.