Locked In with Ian Bick - Juvenile Delinquent to Locked Up: My Story of Teen Trouble and Life in Detention | Anthony Cassese

Episode Date: November 24, 2024

Anthony Cassese shares his journey from being a troubled teen to facing life in detention centers. In this interview, Anthony talks about his experiences as a juvenile delinquent, the challenges he faced growing up, and the turning points that shaped his path. He provides a look into the realities of the juvenile justice system and reflects on the lessons he learned along the way. This conversation sheds light on the struggles many young people face and the consequences of early mistakes. #JuvenileJustice #TeenTrouble #LifeInDetention #YouthIncarceration #TroubledTeens #ReformStories #JuvenileDelinquent #TrueCrimeJourney Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Anthony Cassese: IG: https://www.instagram.com/antcassese/?hl=en Website: https://antcassese.com/ Buy his book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DHLVMP4B?ref=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_apin_dp_ZKVPTPPPSB3B2Z60AT41_1&ref_=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_apin_dp_ZKVPTPPPSB3B2Z60AT41_1&social_share=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_apin_dp_ZKVPTPPPSB3B2Z60AT41_1&starsLeft=1&skipTwisterOG=1 Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 The Art of Storytelling in Podcasts 00:03:51 Overcoming Depression and Anxiety through Writing 00:08:04 Childhood Memories and Family Struggles 00:12:17 Struggles of a Troubled Childhood 00:16:32 Struggles with Family and Substance Use 00:20:30 Teenage Rebellion and Consequences 00:24:35 Facing a Felony for Burglary 00:28:20 Overcoming a Troubled Past 00:32:23 Arrest and Detention in Upstate New York 00:36:14 Overcoming Challenges in Rehab 00:40:05 Reflections on Juvenile Detention Experience 00:43:54 Communication with Family While Incarcerated 00:47:45 Challenges in Adolescent Rehabilitation 00:51:36 Why I Almost Became a State Trooper 00:55:39 Overcoming Adversity and Addiction 00:59:26 Finding Reasons to Keep Going 01:03:20 Introduction and Music Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Anthony, welcome to Lockton, man. We've been talking about doing this for a few months now. I think we connected on Instagram. Yeah, yeah. I think I reached out because I found one of your videos. And I was like, all right, this is interesting. I think the storytelling was really compelling, you know, the way that you structure the podcasts and talk to people. And, you know, sometimes I see these podcasts and I see, like, the hosts that just don't really.

it's more for entertainment value than anything. And I think what I liked was like, this guy is like really interested in who he's talking to. So I was like, I got to talk to him. I got to get on and talk to him. Yeah, it's definitely a different format. I mean, I've been on podcasts as a guest where they just sit down, they ask you like the most salacious thing, like right off the bat.

And that's how a lot of podcasts are nowadays. But I do think like the future of podcasting is storytelling. because that's what makes it different. Why do you think that? If you could tell a good story, I mean, like, the regular podcast, those same guests are on kind of like every show. Right.

You know, telling like the same thing, like sitting around and talking. And I guess that's fun to a certain extent, but I can't listen to that for like an hour. Right. I need like a beginning, a middle, an end. Like, it's like a book. You know, this style is like a book.

No, and that's what I appreciate it because I'm the same way. I'm like, I need to see, I like to see it broken up, and I like to see that we're going somewhere instead of just kind of like, you know? It has direction, you know? Like you know the direction of which it's going. And speaking of storytelling, you just published,

or it's about to be published, your first book. Yeah, yeah. You want to tell the audience kind of like what this is about and why you wrote this book. Yeah, so mixed feelings is, I never thought I'd be an author. I never thought I'd be a writer or do anything like that. And it was a, it was a, it was a, it was kind of a shot in the dark.

I started writing one day because I didn't really, I didn't really know how to talk about my emotions. Like, I, and I think most men have a very similar problem where you're not, I wasn't brought up to talk about how I felt about things. It was, you know, you went through it and you had to get over it and get on with it. Your life had to go on. And, um, I realized, you know, I had something to offer and I wanted to be a value. and I wanted to feel like I was doing something useful with my life. So about two years ago, I started writing just about the things I was going through and the things I had been through in the last 25 plus years.

And, you know, makes feelings a lot about, you know, how to handle things that everyone goes through. Bad relationships going south, which we've all been through a bad relationship. You know, I talked about the loss of my dad in the book where I had never talked about that to anyone because I felt like it made me weak or vulnerable. And I just didn't like that feeling. And writing gave me a platform to put it all out there. And so I wrote mixed feelings with the intent of, okay, I'm going to talk about these experiences. And hopefully people read this and see like. this is somebody who goes through very real things. And I don't see a lot of that these days. I see a lot of stuff heavily marketed. And, you know, it's all picture perfect. And it's very like, you know, if the peg has to fit in this direction. And I wanted the book to just be, this is how I feel. This is what I think the value is. So there's a lot of antidotes for how to overcome really hard stuff that you're going to go through in your, you know, your whole life. So. And it's, it's a short.

read. It's only about 100 pages. So I wanted people to be able to pick it up when they're like in a bind and they're depressed or anxious and feel like shit or feel like killing themselves or anything. I mean, I went through a lot of extremes when I was writing those words in that book. And I shared every step of the way. So it's a very, very vulnerable outlook on what I was going through. And I hope it gives other people the chance to see that and say, yeah, I can do this, you know, I got this. So, yeah, let's talk about your childhood. Where did you grow up? Are you from this area? Did you grow up somewhere else? I kind of grew up everywhere. I was like a nomad. I was one of those guys that never really had a place to call home. You know, I was fucked up, you know, looking back on it. I think my parents

did the best they could with what they had, but it, you know, it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough for me. And I always felt like an outcast, man. And we moved around a lot. I grew up in New Jersey. I spent a few years out in PA when I was kind of like in middle school. And we ended up moving back to New Jersey for my senior year of high school, which is crazy because now that's over 10 years ago. I graduated high school. So my upbringing was less than, you know, traditional.

We grew up poor at times. We didn't really have a whole lot. And that hurt as a kid because I always thought and I had to get out of the mindset of thinking like this. Whereas I thought if I got X, I would feel Y, right? If I got the nice jacket, maybe people would like the way I looked and then want to be around me. And I thought about like stuff like that for a really long time. And I hated it about me because I just, I knew it wasn't right. I knew it was skewed.

It was messed up. And so, you know, it was really hard. I have three siblings, an older brother, older sister, and a younger sister. And my dad wasn't really a great dad. He was a drug addict that went in and out of, you know, rehabs and stuff. And that was hard because I didn't have a consistent father figure, which probably led to a lot of the problems I dealt with down the line. And it was tough.

And it's not something I always enjoyed talking about, but I kind of got a little older and I realized, wow, there's some power here. And so, you know, it was definitely hard my upbringing. And I worked hard the last 10 years after high school to make something of myself that I thought could contribute to society. And I wasn't raised like that. We didn't have healthy relationships. there was no stability, you know, money was maybe there, maybe not. So, you know, you didn't have any financial independence, which really sucks because when you move out on your own, you don't know how to manage your money. So, you know, I ended up blown any paychecks I ever got because I just thought, like, I'll make more.

Like, it'll be all right. And it was hard. I put myself through a lot of shit that I just, you know, I think. It all happened for a reason, but it was definitely tough, for sure. How old are you when you realized your dad was a drug addict and not like a good father figure? I think I knew from a very young age. I think it was something I knew was off. I didn't know what.

And, you know, we only saw him on the weekends, my brother and I for the most part. That's when he showed up on the weekend. Sometimes we'd sit by the window and just wait and wait and wait. it's really fucked up man I'm sure a lot of people go through it too whereas you know I thought you know he would arrive at some point and eventually

he wouldn't and you know I was I was an intuitive kid ever since I was really young and I still am and I think my mom tried to cover up a lot of it with the right intent she would never want us

you know to see my dad that way you know to know what he was going through but I was probably eight or nine and I knew, you know, you're watching your fucking dad. You know, one time he fell asleep at the wheel and I'll never forget that. And we had got done moving that same day, my brother, my dad and I, we had moved from one apartment to another upstate New York where my dad lived one weekend. And I thought he was just tired and maybe I was making an excuse for it. too, but I remember he was driving us back to my mom's and he fucking drove off the highway.

And we were sideways in like a median. And he gained, you know, control of the car, got us back on the highway. And he's so fucked up. He's the first thing he says, like, all right, don't tell your mother, you know. Like, we could have just died. And the first thing you're worried about is what mom's going to say. They're not together. They, you know, but yeah, he always made a joke out of it, I think.

And it's weird. Even talking about it now is very interesting thing to understand. Did your mom ever have like a serious conversation with you and your siblings about what your dad was like maybe kind of deter you from going down that same path? And if she didn't, do you think that would have helped? I don't know that we ever sat down and talked about it. We weren't really that family. We all kind of knew. Everyone knew what was going on.

But nobody, nobody, you weren't as forthright as maybe you could have been about it and communicated like, hey, such and such is going through something. You know, and, and maybe it would have helped. I can't say one way or another. I know my mom was and is very protective of. everyone she loves, you know, and I love that about her. She's protective to a fault. So I don't know that she could have ever even had that conversation with us because she loved my dad to death. They weren't together because he couldn't get it together.

And I'm sure there's a lot more that went into that. But, you know, he died in 2019 and I can say without a doubt to this day, my mom loved him to death. Absolutely to death. It didn't matter if she was married after the fact. met someone new. My dad was my mom's rock. And it's too bad they couldn't, you know, they couldn't get on the same page and my dad couldn't get off the shit.

And, you know, and sometimes he did, you know, and sometimes he would get clean and he'd get right. And you knew when he was right because he was, he was on point. He was happy and he, you know, he had this insatiable lust for life. and he just always wanted to enjoy what he was doing. And, you know, I think about it now. Like, you know, what the fuck was he going through that? He, you know, how awful did he feel inside that?

Maybe he wanted to really, like, get the most he could out of life. So. Yeah, did you ever realize or figure out what those issues were that he was struggling with that led him down that path of addiction? No. I think he just, when I got a little older and I graduated high school, he was a little bit more open about stuff, but he still kind of jokingly talked about things. And I do it too.

You know, I'll say something really, really fucked up and then laugh it off. But, yeah, no, he, you know, one day I remember after I graduated high school, He's like, you know, I love you. And I'm not the greatest. You know, and that was it. That was all I needed. That really, like, that was the conversation that probably, and it happened at the perfect time.

I can't say if it happened a year before or year after, it would have been any better. But he never really talked about what was wrong. He was, he was your man's man. He was as hard as they fucking came, laborer, blue-collar guy. You got a prom, get up and take care of it. you know, somebody doesn't like you, fuck them up, let them be up, move on. It was very that simple that I don't know that he thought he had a problem, to be honest. I think he maybe thought it was totally normal.

Yeah. What kind of kid were you growing up, like middle school, high school, Anthony, beginning of high school. How would someone best describe you at that time? Oh, I was erratic, man. I was erratic. I mean, younger, younger Anthony was very closed off, very introverted. I felt like I didn't understand, man. I was lost.

I was a little kid and I felt like I didn't fit in with anybody. I knew I was different from a lot of people. I came from this very dysfunctional life that it was hard to shake that as a kid, even though I was at school and I had great teachers and counselors that knew what was going on. I knew I was going home eventually at the end of the day. the day to these same problems. And, you know, I think that kind of took away some of the fun out of being a kid. I had to grow up. I had to figure it out and get on with it. And so younger me, I was very introverted and it took me a lot to come out of my shell until maybe like

freshman year I started to fuck around just a bit too much. And I started throwing big house party. and, you know, my brother and I have my older brother. We just, we loved having fun. As any kid in high school would, I loved having fun. And to this day, it's still a huge value of mine where I have to be enjoying what I'm doing. I can't do shit that I'm not about it. Like, you'll never see anything I'm doing. I love it.

I'm not going to do something that I don't think has some value where I can offer some value and earn some value. So, you know, high school, I started having a lot of fun, a bit too much fun. And we went to football games. We had house parties. We, you know, I got my best friend Jesse. He's one of my rider dies. And, you know, we talk about it once in a while. Remember the good old days?

You know, and he's like, shut the fuck up, dude. Good old days. You know, you're not even 30 yet. And we're like, but I was erratic. And I think I just wanted to fit in with people. I wanted people to like me. And I compromised on anything I believed in to make people like me. And that led to a lot of fucking problems.

I got in fights. I got expelled from multiple schools. You know, I got expelled from one school because there was a kid who said I slipped him oxies at lunch and he ate them and overdosed in school when I had nothing to do. with that kid and I was, I think at the time I was trying to get oxies from him. I was a little kid. I was a freshman in high school, man. I didn't know an oxy from a Tick-Tac at the time.

And I ended up getting expelled and I got a lot of trouble, man, just because I wanted people to like me and I tried to fit in with the wrong people. And it really derailed my life. And it just snowballed. You know, I was either getting in a fight or in trouble. on probation and I just couldn't I couldn't I couldn't get ahead of myself man I and I knew it was I knew it was fucked up I just didn't know like where where do I stop how do I get control of this had you used drugs at all when you asked him for those oxies or are you just doing it as like hey everyone

else is doing it you know I want to try to fit in I think at the time I smoked weed I didn't know what an oxy was man I you know if I knew then what I know now right I'd be like you're on own, buddy, but I didn't. I was stupid. I was naive and I wanted to fit in at any opportunity I could. So I think at the time I was just smoking weed and, you know, and that drove my mom absolutely bad shit crazy because, you know, she didn't want me smoking. It was a dysfunctional home, but we still had very similar values to normal families. You know, my mom didn't want me smoking and my dad would smack me in the back of the head when he, you know, found me smoking. What the fuck is wrong with you?

You know, same guy that chain smokes cigarettes all day. What the fuck is wrong with you? You know, like they wanted what was right for me. And, you know, I wasn't like a druggie or anything like that. It's just stupid. How many discounts does USA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount.

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How did your parents react to you getting into fights and getting expelled from school? My dad was just so disappointed. I mean, he wouldn't even look at me. He wouldn't talk to me. And I already felt like he hated me. So now he had a reason to really. Which really, it crippled me. You know, if he was there to kind of extend himself and say, look, son, you're really cutting up.

You better get your shit together. Maybe I would have received that a little differently. And my mom, my mom was just like, she didn't know what to do with me because I had an older brother who was doing a very, was following a very similar path to me. And I had a little sister at some point and my mom had gotten married and my stepdad had died. So my mom was left with this newborn baby, my little sister who's now 17. my brother and I were just fucking running rampant, man. We were just doing whatever. And my mom didn't know what to do.

She'd talk to the police department. They'd send a cop to the house. And they'd come fucking, sometimes they were assholes. Sometimes they were really sweet. And, you know, maybe I didn't have my dad's support, but I had the support of everybody. I really did. I had my mom really wanted me to figure it out. And I just, I didn't know how, man.

I just, I wanted to. I really wanted to. get right with things and I couldn't I didn't know what the hell that meant I didn't so you know I I you know there was many days where my mom freaked the fuck out on me and she was never okay with it you know she's never okay with me out acting like a jerk off and to this day she's still you know still says it you know it's and uh yeah do you think this all stem from you having a dysfunctional family as a child sure Yeah.

Yeah, because I wasn't raised with stability and confidence. And, you know, when you're raised with a mom and a dad and, you know, not to throw any shade at my parents because I think they really did the best they could. But when you're raised with the, like, the support and foundation of a normal household, you're not, you feel confident about the things you're doing. And I didn't feel confident about anything. I was just throwing shit at the wall and hoping something stuck. And as a kid with no guidance or support, I think even just if my dad was there, even if he was a shitty dad, but if he was there, that would have been all the world better. You know, that would have made a world of difference. And, you know, so I think if I had a different upbringing, yeah, I probably would have made some better decisions because I would have felt better about myself.

I just didn't feel very good about me. and I don't know who I was, and I didn't really, you know, I think a young man, me, I needed that from my dad, like a lot, and I just didn't get it. Were you getting arrested at all in high school? Or was it just, you know, fights, expelled, cops show up? Or was there anything like you were getting in trouble with the actual law with? So the kid that had set me up and got me expelled from school, I obviously hated this kid.

I really felt like he ruined my life. I really felt like this because before then, um, I was just a jerk off kid, you know, we, we've, we got on fights.

That was normal 10 years, 15 years ago, 15 years ago, it was normal to fucking just, you didn't like somebody. You met him at the skate park. You guys got a fight and went separate ways. But,

uh, we had, we were playing some touch football one day and we were probably a little riled up. My, my same best friend, Jesse. And we heard that this kid was at the skate park.

And so we went over there and I was out for blood. I was. I, it not much makes me mad. I'm a very collected person. Even as a kid, I was very reserved about the problems I wanted to have in my life. And I went to the skate park and we, you know, just beat the shit out of this kid. Like, really bad. And I was just.

stupid for doing that. You know, I didn't know any better. And after that, I got put on probation and I'll never forget my probation officer, Kyle Morgan, he was the, he made me cry, man, like I've never cried before. My mom was sitting there at probation intake. And for anyone that doesn't know what that's like at, you know, 15 years old, you're there with your parents and a probation officer is just going to dig into you and ask you every fucking question that he knows you can't answer. He knows, he knows where this is going. And he made me feel as small as I possibly could because I made everyone, including my mom, feel so small because they couldn't help me. They didn't know what else to do. And, you know, he would be like, you want to go to fucking jail?

You want to go to jail? Look at your mother. You know, you're going to do this to your mother. And it was pretty awful. I'm getting put on probation. And then I had to adhere to that. And I didn't want to, of course. So I kept getting in trouble. I eventually I felt like I was suffocating from the amount of problems I was causing. I continued to get in trouble at school. I was in alternative schools. So now I wasn't with my friends. And then they said I couldn't go to football games, which at the time was like, I was like, man, come on.

Like all the girls are at the football game. Jesse's in the game. Like I got to go. You know, I got my other friends. Like they're going to be waiting for me. It really, it really, it just was like one fucking thing after another. and I just couldn't get it together. And of course, I kept violating probation.

I was at some point I started drinking and just doing fucking stupid drugs here and there. And I got mixed up with a couple people who ended up being real, real into drugs. And a couple of them eventually OD'd and died. And it was bad, man. I just did stupid shit. I was stealing my mom's car at night. And, you know, she knew. And eventually I was just like, fuck, I can't take any more of this.

You know, I was like, I think I might have been 16. And at a different probation officer, Brian Holly. Brian Holly was the biggest piece of shit on the planet. But he was like, do your shit and everything will be okay. And of course, I didn't, you know. And so I stole my mom's truck one night. And it's really fucked up, man. Because I never thought I'd be there.

You know, as a little kid, I was like, I want to be a good person. I want to be a good parent. I'd be a good adult. And I went through all this shit and, like, stealing my mom's car. I eventually got a felony on my record for breaking and entering because we robbed a drug dealer's house. And I confess to a lot of it at the end because I was like, I'm, I was like, I was like, I can't take this anymore. I was 16. I was like, I'm so tired of, I got this fucking probation.

officer who's every day, he's like, I got a, I got a room for you up in fucking the valley. I got a room for you. And eventually I was like, dude, just take me. I'm so tired of this. And I got hit with a felony for breaking and entering. I admitted to going into somebody's house. And granted, I only stepped three feet in there and stole a box of cookies. I still got a felony.

Wait, so you were looking for drugs at this guy's house? I went there with some other people that had been looking for drugs. So were you planning on stealing the drugs? what was your intention? I was just there for the ride, man. It's fucking stupid. Like, that's where I was. I was like, oh, look, guys, this is a really bad idea.

And, you know, we probably shouldn't be doing this. Like, we were just going to buy a bag of weed. But I was with scumbags that said, oh, let's just go to his house. Fucking rob him. I'm like, you know. And I wasn't a confident young man, so I didn't know how to say, oh, no. Like, if you said that to me today, but like, first of all, I'm going to call the police on you. Okay.

Fuck you. But I just didn't know how to stick up for myself And yeah It led to so many problems, man So many fucking problems So how do you guys get caught that night? Was he home? Were you guys trying to break

Like kick down the door Or were you just knocking on the door? Somebody had Witnessed It take place A neighborhood watch person or some damn buddy They didn't really have any of us But

They started questioning me about A string of burglaries to this area in like Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania. I was living in Pennsylvania at the time. And I said, I don't know anything about those, but there's this one that I was a part of. I don't know. Any of the people I was, right?

Like, I didn't want anyone to get in trouble, but just the thought of them catching up to me was, like, paralyzing. And they were questioning me eventually about that one burglary where I was like, yeah, I walked in. I stole box cookies, man. And like, I don't know, as with fucking, you know, these assholes, I don't know their names. So they ended up giving me a felony for it. And this is a felony on a juvenile record or it's an actual, okay.

So it's not tactically on your record anymore? Yeah, so if you checked, it's not technically there, which is great, right? Because, you know, it gave me a chance as an adult to still make right on my wrongs. but it didn't help that that felony even as a juvenile carried some technically time away. And that was a brutal part of my life. That's, you know, as soon as I got sent away, I was like, I fucked up. It's like I'm fucked up, man. I don't want to be here, you know.

Do you think that if you had gotten like a harsher sentence after that fight the first time you were ever arrested, it would have, you know, deterred you from doing things like this? I don't know Maybe I think it's possible If they had really hit me hard That first time I might have woken up immediately

And so whoa You know like I gotta get out of this But they gave me a slap on the wrist Like they do to any juvenile You know I got a slap on a wrist And you know

They were gonna try to scare me And they they I think the court systems did it right I think they really tried To rehabilitate me But um You know I'm kind of hardheaded And subborn

So even after I knew I had, you know, one foot in, I was like, no, I can still figure it out and I can still do what I want. And I can still, I was wrong. I was so goddamn wrong. How many people do you think have like childhoods growing up like this where they're getting into trouble, you know, as a juvenile, but never talk about it? Never like share these types of stories. But maybe judge others that do get arrested on like an adult level and end up in prison. because if you do this type of stuff as an adult, you know, there's a good chance you're going to prison. Yeah.

But when you're young, you know, you get away with this stuff and a lot of people bury these types of things in the past. Yeah. Well, it's easier to leave it in the past. These aren't exactly like things, you know, and I'm such a forward looker that I hate thinking about some of this stuff, but I learn so much from it. And I think a lot of people that come from broken homes or however you want to fucking label it, it, they deal with this stuff, you know, and it was hard as a kid. And I think people really did the best they could to help me figure it out. And I think a lot of people do experience this. And maybe they turn out to be alcoholics or drug addicts or just, you know, murderers. I don't know.

You know, I think everybody chooses their path in life. But I do think that the minimum it you decide you kind of want to stop doing all this stupid shit you really have to be in it you know you have to say look i need to get right this is wrong you have to look at it that black and white it just has to be that simple where it's just i have to figure this out because otherwise you know you become a number and you know after you're 18 nobody gives a fuck i i you know i got so many slaps on a wrist. People really people knew I was a good kid which I think is what really fucked them up to.

You know, I wasn't like one of those kids that was like destined to be fucked up. You know, I was just in a fucked up place. And I think that kind of confused people because they wanted to help me but you know, and I wanted to help. I just didn't know what the hell I was doing to

get right and I eventually as soon as I got sent away I got sent to a facility where again I got a slap on the wrist. I got sent away for six months. I mean, for felony, assault, and all these things, if I was an adult, I would have been looking at years, years of prison time. So who sends you away the court?

Is that what they're ruled? And are you now out of high school at this point? Yeah, so I was probably like a sophomore or junior. And I just kept breaking probation and steal my mom's car and fucking breaking into places for cookies and just on drugs. So eventually I stole my mom's car one night. Something, I think my P.O. was coming to take me away that morning because the day before I had taken some random fucking pills with my idiot neighbor. And I had like fell on my face in front of my mom.

And she's like, Andy? What the fuck is going? And I was like out of it. I don't know what I took. But I was like, I fell on my face and immediately got up. I was like, mom, good. I'm good. It was maybe like 15 or 16.

So she called my PO. She's like, fuck this kid. I can't help him. He's got to. And thank God she got to that point. I'm sorry she had to. But then my PO was coming. I was like, no, fuck this guy.

I'm not sticking around for this guy to come tell me he's taking me away again. And so I stole my mom's truck. And I went and I was going to go to my dad's upstate New York. That was my plan. I was going to go to my dads. I thought he could save me and help me and talk me through it. and it's it's kind of ironic now talking about it because he was the least reliable person he didn't want to talk about anything so it was weird because i wanted to go to him i felt like this he was going to be able to save me and and uh i had a girlfriend kela at the time who tried to help me you know she'd break into my house in the middle of the night and dump all the drugs or anything down the toilet and leave in the middle of the night and i'd wake up in the morning and be like what the fuck is you know and So I stole my mom's truck.

They stopped me upstate New York. I got to where my dad's house was and arrested me. And I got arraigned and my PO called New York and was like bringing back to PA, we're taking his fucking ass to jail. You don't get to keep him. I was like hot shit. I thought I was cool. Honestly, I thought I was cool.

I had everyone's attention. I had pissed off my best friend's mom because they got involved. I had pissed off. I mean, Kayla's parents fucking hated me, which was fine because her dad. dad was an asshole. So, but that helped me too because, you know, I knew I, he, he held me accountable. I was with his daughter and he always let me know, you know, you're a fucking little punk kid. And he'd tell me and that kept me right because I was like, man, I don't want to be seen as that.

And got arrested, sent away. This might have been my sophomore year. And I got sent to this facility for all these things, felonies, breaking in drugs. It was like, because at that point I had told them everything I was doing. I just wanted to get it done and out of the way because I wanted my life to go start, however that looked like. And so I went away. I was supposed to be away for six months. I got in a fight at this place, like a weekend.

I had these, you know, I hate to be, I want to be politically correct here, but I had these fucking black kids from Philly who wanted to fuck me up. because they had this little kid Riley. Riley was like a little kid and Riley started punching me in the back of my head the one day. I'm like, dude, I can't hit you. You're a kid. And he was just like full on punching me. It didn't feel like anything. It was like a little kid.

But he's like, you know, call me all this shit. I'm like, dude, I just want to do my time. Fucking leave me alone, man. I just, you know, like I knew immediately when I went away, I wanted to get fixed. And I worked really hard to do that. And this kid wouldn't stop fucking touch me. So, of course, I'd knocked him the fuck out. I was like, I'm done with this kid.

And Riley was like protected. And I didn't know that until I went to take a shower that night. And I got my ass fucking absolutely handed to me. They'd knocked me out cold, kicked my fucking head in. They fucking beat the shit out of me. And I told everyone nobody believed me. Why would they? I was a fucking little asshole.

You know, they thought it was just like another cry for help. And I had burned every bridge at that point. and rightfully so. So I said, fuck this. I'm leaving, man. I know where I am. I'm, you know, I'm like three hours from home, man. I got some connections.

I'm going to sort this out, you know? So I fucking left like two miles down the road. One of the counselor picks me up. He's like, eh, I'm like, they fucking beat me up, man. I don't want to be here. And this was like Thanksgiving time. They sent me to juvenile detention, 23 and 1. So I was basically in prison at that point.

What was this place before that then? Like a rehab? This was like a rehab. Like there was no gates or anything. It was like stick to your shit. Take care of your program. And I wrote a little song to remind you, Choice Hotels gets you more of the experiences you value.

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And that clearly didn't click. So now they send you to juvenile detention center? As like a holding and I was there for like a month and a half. So I sat there through Thanksgiving. I sat there through Christmas and it was miserable. I was a kid. I was a fucking kid. And I remember they sent me into juvenile detention and it is exactly what you would expect if you don't know what prison looks like.

It is a fucking a brick of concrete with a very thin yoga mat. You know, you got your sink, your toilet, and everything's right here. And every morning at 6 a.m., they come in, they throw all your shit in the air and say, clean it. And you mop your floor and you fucking sit there and feel sorry for yourself. And there's not really much more that happens. You fucking eat, you know, your food in the morning. And you read if, you know, they like you, they might let you. have a book and um that was hard that that i was like fuck man like i'm i'm i'm in a really bad

place and i don't know what how to fucking fix this i don't know i just know everybody hates me and that was not what i wanted i want everyone to like me so i was everything was just thrown in the air and it was like what are you going to do now and um that was tough they eventually placed me in another rehab that was about seven hours from home. They were like, you're going away and you're not going to get home, you know, at that point you're a flight risk. So they're like, they think you're going to take off. I went to that facility.

That was George Jr. Republic out in Grove City, PA. And I got there. And I was like, obviously, I'm still a kid, man. I'm like, fuck, man, all these new people. and, you know, but everyone was really nice. And it really felt like people wanted to help. And I needed that autonomy of like, okay, I want to get right, but I need you guys to help me figure out how to get right.

And that was another rehab. But now I was supposed to be away for about a year and a half. They were like minimum year and a half, you're going to be here. You're going to go to school. You're going to do this. You're going to do that. And I came from a very strict county that was going to adhere to that, especially dealing with me.

My POs made sure the job. just knew I fucking was the worst. Everything was against me, man. I was like, fuck. Like, I'm never going to, never going to figure this out, you know? Like, and so I went away and I, I completed that program in like nine months. I was like, I'm going to be the best. I'm going to do the best.

I'm going to fucking not, you know, do anything wrong. And I didn't. I worked through their program. And I had great counselors and I had people that really cared about me. People to this day that I still stay in touch with. And yeah, that was tough. I excelled with that program. I got a chance to go to college while I was out there even.

And that was on a big open campus. There was no walls or anything. They were basically like, hey, if you want to leave, you're not going to get very far, seven hours from fucking home, you know? And I was like, yeah, I'm not leaving me. Did meeting kids in the juvenile detention center that were there for probably far worse, you know, crimes? Did that have any effect on you? kind of like your outlook of where you were at,

like almost like a scared straight type of thing. Yeah, because some of these kids were really fucked up, man. I was like, you know, and I hate to be like judgey like that, but I was around kids that were like, this one kid was in the, like how we are sitting across from each other.

This one kid, his room was like directly across and we had these little windows that you could see through and he was like a cartoon character and I'd look out the window like, like, you know, like you're in prison, man. Like you weren't allowed to leave your room.

There was a guard at the end of the fucking hallway to tell you, what are you doing, you know? And so you look at the, you know, look through each other's windows and fuck around because, you know, your guys and you're still kids. And this kid took a pencil one day and he started like digging into his arm and like laughing at me. And I was like, this gets fucked up, man. Like, I don't know if I, like, belong here. Like, this is not right. And, like, just I encountered a lot of people that were there for, I think, similar problems. You know, they probably felt similar to how I felt, but there for very different reasons.

You know, some people were beating up their family members. And, I mean, there was a pretty broad range of people you're going to run into, especially in the juvenile detention center. You're sitting amongst murderers at that point. So it's like you can bump into anybody. And I think a lot of that I saw what they were going through. And I was like, man, I really, this isn't me, man. I got to fucking, I got to get this right. Like, I'm just, I made some stupid choices, but I'm not, I don't want to be destined to this life.

I don't want to be part of the recidivism of what this looks like. I want to complete my shit. And I want to go and never come back. Like, that was how I saw it. I just want to go and never come back here. Ever. Did you ever wonder like what happened in those kids' lives to get to where they are? Because like sometimes like I'm like you'll meet someone or you'll hear a story and you know something crazy that happened in them.

And you always kind of wonder the backstory of how they ended up there. So as a kid when you're with those individuals and you're there for far less, you know, crimes. What's going through your head when you see those kids? I think I'm the same, you know. I want to understand. I think a lot of what happened to me was just bad timing, poor choices. It didn't, it didn't, it wasn't like my identity. And I really had to shake that over the years when I got out and stuff.

And I met a lot of kids similar to that because, you know, I wanted to understand. And there were a lot of people that were 16, 17. They're like, you know, they were already like, I just want to do the program, be the best at it and get out of here. You know, and they came from similar households. Some of them came from perfect homes and had the most problems. And some of them came from the most fucked up homes and had the biggest hearts. And some of them, you know, everyone had a very different story. But it was eye-opening for me because I never thought I'd be there.

I was like, oh my God. Like, I really fucked up, man. Like, how did I get here? And I imagine a lot of people felt how I felt. So I tried not to be too critical of what was going on around me. I just wanted to remain on my own course. And, you know, if, you know, I had a roommate or something, which was rare, you only got a roommate if you were like, you know, the goodest of boys, you know. So like, but eventually I had roommates.

And, you know, I had a, Josh was one of my roommates. Josh was a great kid. He's just fucking idiot, you know. And we didn't realize that until we talked about it. And I'm friends with him on Facebook now. And he went and lived a great life. You know, guys got his own company, does landscaping, whatever. And I think that's amazing, man, because you can turn your life around.

You know, it's possible. And I hope people know that because I was in the thick of it. I was in the worst fucking place ever. And granted, I was a kid. So I probably still had a lot of leeway to sort it out. If I, if I fucked up now, I'd still want to turn that page and put it behind me because it, it, it, hurt me for a lot of years because I always heard what people said about me. You know, you're a piece of shit. You're a druggy. You're this. You're that. And I didn't know how to get rid of that.

That was a lot for me. How was your relationship with your siblings and your parents while you're going through, you know, these programs, the detention center, were they supportive? I think it was a lot for everybody. Yeah, I think it was a lot for everybody. I didn't really talk to my siblings much. My mom called when she had time and didn't really know what to say other than cry. I talked to my grandma probably more than anybody and I had some letters here and there from my siblings. My older sister used to send me books that I really liked reading. I think they wanted to help still. They wanted to support me, but they didn't know how. They didn't, you know, it was just a fucking loser kid, just being a jerk off.

And, you know, my mom just kind of would say, like, you know, I can't wait for you to be out of there and come home. And I'm really sorry for what I had to do. And, you know, I think it was probably the one time in my life where the communication was very crystal clear. You couldn't really dance around what was going on. You know, it wasn't like dad, you know, driving off the road. He's a drug addict. It was like, you're in jail and you're not coming home today. And, you know, my little sister thought I was on vacation for a long time, to which now we joke about.

But, you know, at the time it was painful, man. It was really painful. It was painful for everybody. Now that last program you would go to after, what are some of like the programs and activities you would do there on a day-to-day basis? That helped you. Well, for the first six months, you had to adhere to that program. You didn't get any, no one gave you any handouts. Nobody cared.

Nobody thought you'd figure it out. after the six or seventh month mark, I had reached a certain level, and that gave me the ability to go do a lot of things. And a lot of people knew I was very serious about what I was doing, so they trusted me.

And I was allowed to walk around on campus. And I was privy to a lot of things that other people weren't. So I remember we used to go horseback riding, which was like supposed to be therapeutic. And that was great because you learned how to take care of a horse, how to take care of a farm, how to keep the upkeep and get up early and do all these things that I never thought I'd do.

One time I went to a Pirates game, which was like, you went to a fucking baseball game, you're in jail, bro, you know, like technically. And I think it was confusing. It was confusing for me. But I think people wanted to show me little by little that I was doing the right thing. They didn't want to get me too much, you know, I might fly off the hinges again. But we did a lot of, you know, you did school like you would anywhere else. That took up a lot of time.

And after school, I eventually was offered a program where I took a sociology class. And I was number one in that class for Grove City. You know, so I got college credits while I was away. And I met professors. And I had some really nice opportunities afforded to me when I put in some serious. work though. I had to really, I had to sit through therapy and talk about, you know, my bastard dad and my bastard ways and my mom's overprotectiveness. And, you know, those were uncomfortable topics. They were things that a kid doesn't, you know, know, know how to talk about. And you

don't know as a kid you're being coarse to talk about it. You know, you just know that this person keeps asking you questions. You got to answer them. And, you know, so you put it all out there. The program was, it was neat every month or so and every level they'd identify as certain things that you had to do better at or you'd lose points. And when you lost points, you'd lose your commissary. You'd lose your, you know, your fucking recess time, which anyone that's ever been away knows. You don't fucking touch a man's commissary. And you don't fuck his, you know, yard time up. And so you take those things seriously because they're those little creature comforts that keep you getting through the day.

And I remember the one challenge was Anthony has to not Anthony has to accept negative criticism And they could spin that however the fuck they wanted And one night I remember they told me like You gotta go to bed I'm like come on man Like you know I'm on this level bro I'm about to go home like let's be friends You know I want to be friends with the counselors and shit

I related to them And I was like a minute late and I like challenged them And they're like fuck it you lose your points you're getting put on this sub or whatever it was, which could prevent you from going home. And I was like, whoa. I was like, that really rocked my world, man. So, yeah, so you did a lot of different shit.

It just depended on where you were in the program that they trusted you or they didn't. So how old are you when you finished the program? 16. And do you go back to the public high school after that? What happens after that? My mom said, we're leaving PA. You can't come back to PA because that's where all my problems were. And I was resist into it because that's where all my friends were.

You know, I had finally made a friend group and had a click of people that I kind of related to. My senior year, I started high school in Phillipsburg, New Jersey. My first day of school was my 17th birthday. It was miserable. I knew nobody, knew nothing. I just got out of like kid jail. I was still working on my relationship with my mom. I had no friends.

No job, no money, no nothing. I was like a fucking feral cat, man. I was like a newborn baby. And when I got out, I was still on probation. So I was on probation for another like two years. And I was embarrassed about that because, you know, I met new people that asked me questions. and I have a whole lot of answers

because I was fucking embarrassed. I was like, God, man, like, I'm such a loser, you know? Like, I was in jail and I got to meet all these people. How am I going to relate to them? And that was tough. That was a whole other chapter of tough. Yeah, I can't imagine going in a senior year in a public high school and you know no one.

Dude, I'd be at pep rallies. They'd be, like, going crazy, be like, yeah. Yeah, like, I mean, you know, the high school is so intense. integral. It's at building, you know, relationships and friends and stuff. And to be that new person, I remember was scary just going there as a freshman. So imagine a senior when you don't have those four years to kind of develop with those groups and the clicks and see how the school operates. Yeah, it was tough, man. People had grown up in that area their whole lives. And I felt, I felt very outcasted, which was fine because I had felt outcasted before then. So I was just

still felt very out of, I didn't feel like I belonged anywhere, had a place or anything. And, And, you know, I almost immediately met this girl Amanda and started dating her. So then I was with this girl for most of my senior year. So I really didn't meet anybody because it was just me and her. And that was like it. You know, so we didn't really like, I didn't do really anything extracurricular. Maybe if I didn't start dating that girl, I would have gone out and kind of met some people. So I ended senior year there.

And I fucking basically knew like three people. So do you stay on track? you get ready or not summer is coming and wayfair's memorial day clearance is on now right now through may 25th get up to 70% off everything home at wayfair plus score amazing doorbuster deals all sale long and surprise flash deals on memorial day we're talking thousands of products at every style and budget now is the time to save big on must-habs for your patio backyard and beyond these savings won't last so don't wait shot wayfair's memorial day clearance now through may 25th Wayfair, every style, every home.

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with a weight-related medical condition versus 3.1% in placebo arm. RX only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to row.com slash safety. Through probation, are you turning your life around at this point? Yeah, I was squeaky clean, man. I got a job. I remember I got a job at Sonic and they were like smoking pot outside and they're like, come on, man, smoke some weed. And I called my mom.

I was like, got to come get me. Got to come get me. Dude, I was scared to death. I was absolutely terrified. I never wanted to go back to the things I had to do. And I made that so clear to people. Like, you weren't going to. No, sorry.

And I was very, very firm on it, something I never was. I couldn't stick up for myself. I didn't know how. And people learn pretty quickly that, you know, I was that person now. And so I stayed the course, man. I worked really hard. I went to community college. I almost became a state trooper in New Jersey, which is kind of fucking crazy.

Would you have been able to become one? Technically, yeah. Really? Okay. Why do you decide not to do that? I went through two years of community college and I had met so many amazing people and professors that were the people

that could have essentially made it happen. And I had family and police. So it was like I had a lot going for me where I could have done it. But halfway through the application process, I was like, I can't, I can't do this. I need to be free. I feel like I've been restricted so much

that if I enter this now and it's a life of restitution, restriction where you have to adhere to your regimens and, you know, training. And I just, I didn't feel like I was there. I felt like I did the two years of community college to kind of buy myself some time because I didn't know. And, yeah, it just, I wanted to kind of figure my shit out. And being a state trooper was not about, it's not how I was going to do it. And I was in class with, you know, a couple guys that went and did it, you know.

And I have really good friends that are police officers and troopers. now and they know I'm fucking crazy. They know my stories but that's all right because I know there's stories too and we all go through shit. Yeah, we all, even the cops, they have stories just like yours. That's why I think you have an interesting perspective

because you live a life that a lot of people have lived. Right. Cops, politicians they all got into trouble but they don't talk about it and they bury that and those records are sealed with juvenile or expunged or whatever, you know. But everyone

grows up that way. Kids are kids. I didn't know that. I didn't know. And I, as I got older, I learned. You know, I had my one professor, Jeff. He was the chief of police in New Jersey. And I said, I pretty much told him, I said, look, Jeff, I went through this, you know, I kind of more of an elevator pitch, you know, and he said, you know, Anthony, there's, there's a lot that we go through. He said when I was your age, I went through the same stuff. There was just less cops. And so you got away with more. And I hear the crazy stories and stuff.

But yeah, I had to get it together, man. I really wanted to live a very different life. And after college, I just started working. And I met a girl and we worked hard together. And I dated her for a couple years. And we eventually ended up getting married. And that didn't fucking work. So that was a whole other lesson that I wasn't prepared for.

And, yeah, man, I mean, I'm not to say that I didn't make some serious mistakes after the fact. And I've been very fortunate to still kind of have a moment to reflect on how to never let those things happen. But, yeah, I know jail time or anything since. So what piqued your interest about even considering getting into law enforcement, especially after your run-ins with law enforcement. I wanted to do right, man. I wanted to do better. And I thought that it just seemed obvious.

Now I learned over years that I could give back in a different way, but I wanted to inspire people to not do what I did because I chalked it up to, hey, these were some bad mistakes. Let's just let them be that. You know, don't let it turn into a historic thing where you're just year over year, you're fucking making the same mistakes. Like I wanted to, inspire people to make better

fucking choices. And I thought if I was a cop, I could do that because there was a lot of people in my life at that time that were cops. And my uncle was the chief of police and my other uncle was another chief of fire. And I had really good role models around me. And they

were people I looked up to and I thought well, I guess I got to go do what they're doing. And I'm happy I didn't. Do you ever look at some of these stories that people share like on this platform on other platforms of the guys that you know started out with the childhood like your go down that bad path and end up in like serious situations prison uh worst crimes do you ever think that that could have been you if you continued down your path yeah oh yeah i i i yeah i i worry about the effects of what drugs can do to you to where

you don't even know you know i i've kind of drawn a very hard line when it comes to things like addiction over the last few years because I went through a lot of it when I was younger. But I think when you're on drugs, you don't really know what the hell's going on, man. You know, when you're at odds with everybody in your life and everything, you don't know how to sort that shit out. So it could have snowballed for sure. It could have led to a number of things that I had no way of ever fixing. Yeah.

And I feel like that's why that content relates to people because it's so relatable but yet so different. it could have happened to anyone. These are just normal people. Yeah, and I think it's really how you talk about it because maybe I went, you know, to rehab, but, you know, other people may go through other things where, you know, maybe they don't go to rehab or maybe they're in bad fucking households

and they feel trapped and they can't talk about it and they feel like they don't understand it. And I don't want anyone to feel how I felt ever to this day. It's what leads me to what I do these days where I still want people to feel. feel inspired by what's happening because I never want anyone to feel as trapped as I felt, you know, as a kid. And I felt like I couldn't figure it out. And there was a lot of times or I was just like, man, if I just kill myself, like maybe I just didn't know how else to

deal with it. And sometimes I fear that people get to that point and they, they succeed. And that kind of makes me feel awful because it bothers me because it's not the, you know, it's, you feel alone and you feel like there's no way of going forward but um you know there's a chance and i want people to know that because i was in some really shitty stuff man and there's people that go through even worse shit that you know i don't want anyone to ever feel like you know fuck this like it's just an awful feeling what helped get you through those dark moments and what advice would you give to others to help get through that i i always knew that i had more i could offer And I think, you know, when you look at a lot of the studies on it, and I don't want to speak out of term, so I'm sorry if it sounds a little ignorant, but you look at, you know, some of the suicide rates and some of the studies behind that stuff.

And they say a lot of it happens because people don't know that people don't see the next step. You don't see that there's light at the end of the tunnel, you know. And I could understand why somebody might do something like that when you feel like there's nothing. to live for. I have been through things since then that I, again, would revert back to, well, if I just kill myself, maybe that'll fucking end it, right? Like, and I don't have to deal with this. I always remembered there's something more here.

There's people that rely on me. I think of, you know, how it might affect the people around me that love me to death, to absolute fucking death, how it would affect them. And I think of all the projects. I work on and stuff and all the things that I want to do. I really want to do. You know, and it took me a few years to kind of shake the, well, just end it if it doesn't work out. And now when it doesn't work out, you know, I think very differently.

But, you know, if that's where somebody is, man, you got to find a reason to live. You got to find a reason to get up. You know, you have to find a reason to want to do something, anything, anything at all, just anything. put your phone down go for a walk talk to the fucking birds man whatever anything to just get you through that next day and through that next day and through that next day because when you feel that shitty about yourself you're going to feel that shitty for a long time because nothing's going to change unless something changes and and it's not going to change unless you consciously decide hey you know what fuck this i feel shitty but i have to i have to keep trying and

one day you know before you know it you kind of look back and you're like I'm all right. You know, everything worked out. Everything's okay. Why was I so hard on myself? Why do I worry so much? Why'd I stress so much? And, you know, and again, like I've been through so many things in my adult life now that have been just as the, you know, they've crippled me in a lot of ways, you know? And you have to keep going. That's just how this works. Like you can't stop because there's people that need you here. There's things you need to do. There's reasons to live. There's people. to talk to and there's so much to learn. And I think we get in our in our own way a lot. What do you want people to take away from listening to your story? Don't be scared, you know. I was scared and not me for a long time. Only in the last couple of years have I really started to grow into.

But don't be scared to put yourself out there. You know, we live in a very polarizing world these days for one reason or another. We could talk about that for hours, you know, social media, politics. There's an abundance of reasons to not do any one thing, to not feel better, to not go on a date, to not go to a meeting, to not shake hands with that person, to not leave your house, to stop playing the video games. If you're looking for a reason to continue those things, you're going to just keep feeding yourself bullshit. it. But don't be scared to take that first step to try to change your life and try to get right with how you feel because I knew I didn't feel right. And I was out of alignment with the things that were going on. And it took me over a decade to get straight with those things. Over a decade,

it took of trying and one step forward, two steps back. But you can't be scared. I see a lot of people today that are terrified, absolutely terrified to do remedial things, you know, take a new meeting with a new client, why not, you know, go on a date with the person you really like, you know, why, what's holding you back, right? Like, be willing to, to accept that you're going to fail. Be willing to accept that shit's going to go awry. It's going to happen. You have to accept that it's going to happen.

But, you know, know, know what you want, know what you need to get out of your days and try to aim at those things. Yeah, shit happens. It's, you know, it's not about how far you fall down. What matters is you get back up and you keep. pushing and you keep trying new things. Absolutely, man. You have to.

Well, Anthony, thank you so much, man, for sitting down and sharing your story with us. We'll have the link to your book and your social media in the description of this episode for the listeners to check out. Yeah, I appreciate it, Ian. I hope everybody enjoys and, you know, the show and, you know, hopefully they can take away a couple things that I couldn't figure out. Hopefully, my stories help them not. Do those things.