Locked In with Ian Bick - KINGPIN Reveals His Multi-Million Dollar Crime Ring & Surviving PRISON | Devin Reilly

Episode Date: July 23, 2023

Coming from a good family, Devin Reilly is a natural born entrepreneur. Before heading off to college, Devin is introduced to the world of drugs and gambling, leading him to build a successful business off of illegal activities. As time goes on, Devin's operation expands, resulting in the creation of a multi-million dollar crime ring. After years of staying under the radar, Devin is eventually investigated by multiple state and federal law enforcement agencies, resulting in a lengthy prison sentence.  Connect with Devin Reilly: https://www.facebook.com/devin.reilly.370?mibextid=LQQJ4d https://instagram.com/dreilly32?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ== 00:00 Intro 02:39 Childhood 08:17 The Start of it all 14:06 Started a casino at college  18:55 Bookie and gambling  29:30 Fatherhood 34:10 Drug operations  41:17 Laundering Money 46:00 Loyal mothers  47:38 Close run ins with the cops 50:14 Chased by the cops/Start of investigation  1:04:10 Arrested and Charges 1:11:40 Released on bail and arrested again (twice) 1:24:00 Sentencing  1:27:20 Diesel Therapy  1:31:00 Navigating Prison  1:40:00 Moved to Northern State Prison  1:43:55 Most Violent thing he saw  1:45:51 Smuggling into prison to get a phone  1:49:10 Halfway house  1:55:40 Life after prison  Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com/ Subscribe to our membership program on YouTube to get early access to interviews, see behind the scenes photos & more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvVklIft6DMelVW18M0oBw/join Powered by Q29 Productions, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at Redfin.com. Own the Dream. We are back with another episode. of Locked in. I'm your host, Ian Bick, and on today's episode, we have Devin Riley coming from New Jersey to tell his insane and crazy story about how he was the head of a drug and gambling ring that ends up getting shut down by multiple law enforcement officials, including federal agents, and lands him in 20 years of prison. Guys, this story is so crazy. It might be one of the

most wild stories we had on, and I'm super excited to share. with you. Thank you guys for tuning into the show. Thank you guys for all the love and support you've been giving us as our channel continues to grow. Please do us a favor. Check out the audio streaming platform, Spotify and Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, and leave us a review. It helps us boost the show drastically. Also, today I was looking through my Facebook and a memory came up from a year ago, the first ever video I posted talking about my story. And it's just insane how much this has grown from just in a year's time. You know, the power of being consistent and never giving up can really take you places that you've never imagined. Thank you guys for all

of you that have been along with us on this journey as we continue to grow and continue to build. I'm so excited for, you know, the next six months because these past six months have been absolutely amazing. All right, guys, that's all I got for you. Sit back, relax, and enjoy my interview with Devin Riley. Devin Riley, welcome to the show, man. You hit me up on what platform, Instagram or Facebook or something? I don't remember. I think it was Facebook and you sent me the article and I knew it was going to be a crazy story just by the photo of you in court. Oh, my thumbs up. Yeah, you're like waving to the court. Like, I'm good. It's so cool that they got that because this was going back to early 2000s that they got that photo that's literally an

iconic photo it's all listen I play softball around the country my buddy mooch every time we join a new team or something that's that that's what the the group chat pictures might mean with a thumbs up listen I want to tell everybody I'll be fine like I take care everybody don't worry about me and here I'm about be home you know so that's what it was yeah and then you sent me some stuff last week and I'm going through and listening to the record and I'm like wow this dude's story is insane. Who gets inside the video from inside the court of me? I know. I think you're the first guest that we got inside, like, court, like, uh, listening to the whole videos. I know. Insane. All right, so let's dive into this, starting from your childhood. Where did you grow up? Where are you from?

So originally from Millville, New Jersey, um, about 14, my mother moved to Philadelphia. So I was back in between Philadelphia and New Jersey with my father, you entered a divorce. My mother's husband is originally from Philadelphia. Great dude like my real dad, almost. You know, my father's more like my friend. I was a good kid. I was a good kid. So what I could do was I manipulated the system, though,

my mother, who's being out of Philadelphia, I got my driver's license a year early. So in New Jersey, you're 17, Pennsylvania's 16. So I got a car. So I had worked. My grandfather owned a oil and ice company. They sold ice and fuel oil. So, I mean, I was in fifth grade.

He's picking up taking me to work. work. So my work ethic is insane. And they made a deal with me. Listen, you don't do drugs. We'll buy your car. So I didn't do any drugs my whole 16 years. My grandfather got sick on my 70th birthday. He died. He called January 1st my birthday. My mom calls me, you better go see your grandpa. Yeah, you know, but he was only sick a month. He tells me, loves me, dies right there front of me. Well, for the night of day on, that's when I'm bad. That was the trigger. That was it. Yeah. That and the iced tea video, Hustler, you're watching this video. I'm like, that's what I want. I don't know if you've ever seen the video. I can't find it ever again,

but it had all the strippers riding around, you know, the gold chains back then. So that, and that's what started. I had the connections to Philly. I knew guys there. Then my grandfather was gone now because he was everything, like my best friend. Okay, let's see what happened. Well, first off, it's awesome. Your birthday is January 1st. Like, that's such a great birthday. Like, every year you got a fresh new year. this sucks because, listen, growing up, they were broke. So after Christmas, my birthday, I would get nothing. You know, not a lot of gifts because, you know, everybody spent a lot of money at Christmas time. Yeah. But the day is a very good one. So even though that your grandfather or uncle or grandfather

was grandfather had a business, you guys still grew up kind of poor or middle class? Yeah, so no, my mother, you know, they, they were old school. So what theirs was theirs. They didn't make a ton of money with the company. They lived well for them. You know, they drove to Lincoln. They had the little house. They didn't, it's not like money now. So when he died, he would have $30,000, you know.

Now we spend that day in Vegas. So, you know, money's just totally different now. My mother, she was, my father was an attorney. Rough divorce. He didn't pay her. You know how that works. So my mother worked at like the Red Cross for $7 an hour. So I was selling newspapers,

you know, with a newspaper route. I was the first, I bought a VCR for our house. You know, I was that kid. So I just made my own money all the time. You know, in, when I was in sixth grade, I would stop at the, I'd walk by the bakery and buy day old pies for a dollar. And I'd take them to school and sell them for a dollar a slice. That's smart.

So, you know, that's just where I, it started way back then, you know, between hustle and baseball cards. I'd find out which ones are worth the most. You know, they didn't have the internet back then. So I'm going in the bookstore, like trying to sweep through things, who I can get for the baseball cards. Yeah, you know what's cool? Like all these entrepreneurs and stuff say they have some type of mentality as a child. Like in my childhood, I'd get dropped off at CVS in the morning next to the middle school.

I'd get 20 bucks for my dad and I'd go buy energy drinks, gum, whatever, and I'm double or tripling it. That's what I did every day. Lemonade stands, candy, whatever. Like, if you have it that young, you're going to do it later on. And I didn't realize that at the time, but it's insane. I knew I just didn't want to be like my mom. So we were sleeping in two-bedroom. My sister and I were in my mom sleeping on the couch.

You know, I didn't want to ever be that. You know, my father being an attorney, he had all the women, been married five times. He was out knowing whatever he did. So he wasn't around much as I was a kid. So I just knew I didn't want to end up like my mom, you know? And your only sibling is your sister? Yes. Yep.

And growing up, what was? was that like like sports or what did you do i i was a big i played baseball growing up my sister's four years younger so we you know we didn't get long at all for growing up she would live my mother when she moved back to philly i stayed my father um i did shopper for track like you know i listen i was worried about making money that's it i mean that that was my thing you know like you said i had paper route i worked at my grandfather's business you know so saturdays i was working fourth july they want to go on party well that was the biggest day in the ice business, they would have, you know, they'd sell $30,000 worth of ice off the back of the deck,

you know, 25 pounds, crushed the machine. I wanted to go to work. I didn't want to be at the beach with my dad. You know, so I've always been that motivated just to work, you know, more than part of hanging out. I don't drink. I never drank. I drank in college last time I drank. What were your, like, aspirations at that age? What do you want to do with your life? You know, I really just thought the ice plan, that business would be mine. So my mother's brother, though, who, um, work there his whole life too. Not a, not a super intelligent fella, you know, but he had a problem with me because I was young, ambitious, one idea is to make things better. At 15, I'm saying, let's get a volumetric bagger because there's a big company now at C.L. Ice, we actually started

them and they just took off because they went with all the new advancements and things like that. Now they're multi-million dollar company. Our company was shut down, you know, a couple years that we're going if I've died. Yeah. So 17 years old, he passes away. How does this start to go south. Like what exactly goes down? I can tell you the day. So he, the day he died, I left his house. Like, listen, I got my car. They gave me $5,000 for the car because I didn't do drugs. My mother actually drug test me 10 times. Oh, she was one of those parents that did the drug test. And the thing is I didn't drink her do drugs. You know, she was nuts. She was actually a drug counselor too. She worked right across. She was a drug counselor and she, you know. So I'm driving down this road and I was like, I think I can get an

eight ball. Just randomly. Just random. How does that come to mind? Because of that stupid video, the Istee Hustler video, the music video. You weren't in drugs. Even because of that, you just... I saw it. I knew what he did, and that's what he talked about.

You know, he was always selling drugs. And I was like, why can't I do that? Did your friends do drugs too? I didn't, at that time, nobody did. Okay. But I had the connection there. Nobody knew, you know, I'm in a little town in New Jersey. And what year is this?

What time frame? 1999? I wasn't even born yet. No, that's what I'm saying? Like, you would yet. So I knew I could go to Philly and buy an 8 ball for $120. Okay? So I'm like, what do I do with it?

So I'm going around there's this woodbine. It's like 20 miles away. And I was like, let me find somebody there. I see what they do. And that's what happens. Just started like that. Met a dude. I was like, listen, I can get an 8 ball.

What do you give me for? He's like, 150. I was like, okay. So when he got three eight balls, made $150 profit. Then we start, then in high school, when I come back to Milville, high school, I was like, I'm breaking this shit down. I'm giving the five guys to sell on the street somewhere. I don't want everyone to touch it.

Like, I didn't want to worry a 30. And I always said, listen, I'm going to jail. It's going to be for a real reason. Like, I'm not going to jail. You're not going to catch me with a 20, you know. And it just went from there. And I starved because I knew once I got into the drug game, it's worse than doing drugs, in my opinion.

The addiction is the making the deal and the money coming in. But I didn't spend anything. Like, I'm not a big spender. So I knew what. wanted to buy a quarter key. So I'm going in Camden now, which is, you know, outside of Philly, tanned up, my hat, creased way down. They think I'm Spanish. I'm walking these projects, you know, with eight grand trying to buy nine ounces at the time at 18 years old, you know, before college, and they could have just killed me. I'm walking down these halls where they cut the doors in half

and about the bottom of the doors were just like gates with dogs and everyone. And at the end of the room there's one dude two door two guys with guns and one you walk in this room guy with kilos one thing what do you want they could just took my money and just left me there but if something went wrong they let the dogs out because there's only one way in they'd run upstairs they had a place to get outside you know so i did like the dumbest shit now like i'll never do that now what are you thinking going into a place like that i don't think i did you just you just wanted to do it i just wanted to do it that's crazy and then driving home you're driving home over the bridge from pennsylvania new jersey there's always a cop sitting and I was like, I know what he is.

But I was very smart to him in the fact that I wouldn't speed. I didn't smoke. All my paperwork was always right. You know, my father being an attorney, he was good for some things. So he made sure like my, if I ever got speeding ticket, he took care of. Like, you know, that kind of stuff. So, you know, it's, I'm smart about things at that time. So when I start making money from that point, though, I go to college.

So I go to, first I go to Goldie Beacom, my first year at high. school. And what is that, a community college? It's a, it's a small college in Delaware. It's a little business school. Well, I'm probably there six weeks. I put a pool table in my room. Okay. So the dorms were, they're like a little apartments. They're like two bedroom apartments. And there's four to a floor. So I put a little six foot pool table. You put money. Like, I'm always hustling, you know. And I bring some friends up for a mixer. So I was actually pledging at this time for the first time ever they let a freshman pledge because I knew a couple of guys there from you know so I bring some friends up for this mixer

and of course what happens they get in a fight so it's three of my guys against everybody so we're fighting in this dorm and the it was we not me was like the pledge thing that this you know this outfit had and I was like okay well these dudes don't help me fight so we start beating them up too to the fraternity house pledging on you know so we get in a 20-minute fight in this down the steps hauled i mean the a race everybody's getting beat up we walk out next day i get called to the office like this rley you got problems i was like yeah no shit so he says you know i said listen here's the problem you let all these dudes drink underage and you're going to come in me if they weren't drunk it might not happen we're not

going to kick you out, but we're going to tell you got to leave the end of the semester. All right, so I got to go home and tell dad this now, because at this, I'm living with dad. So I'm like, what I got to do? Before I get, I got three weeks left. So I find another school that'll take me because I did a little golfing back then. So I said, I'm going to go to Wesley where my cousin's going, tell them I'll go come play golf for them if they let me in. So I had it all set up.

So I went, hey, dad, listen, I just got thrown out a Goldie Beagle, but I got accepted Wesley. So don't worry about it. Oh, you actually told him you got thrown out. Yeah, I did tell him. And, you know, my dad was an asshole. He still is an asshole. But, like, you know, you hear stories. And my grandma told me that one day my father was in the library when he was in college.

When the kids told him to be quiet because he was talking, he took the buck and hit him in the face with him. So don't tell me to be quiet. So my father was a dick. You know, so I have it naturally. Like, so I was like that. He was like, all right. So we go there and I start a casino. And you start a casino at the school.

Oh, my God. So, but then. it's in Dover, Delaware. And so I went from Women's to Delaware, which is all the way down by like Delftech. What? Everybody's looking for weed. Ooh, hey, I can get weed.

And you're still selling Coke at this time. Now it's Coke and weeds. No, normally people start with weed first and then go in the other way. So now it's Coke and weed. And this, now it's, you know, this is back and day before all this exotic stuff. This is just the brick, terrible junk weed with seeds this big in the bottom of the pound bag. But I was like, can get it. So I, we, in my room, we had a casino all night every night going. I'm making a couple thousand

dollars a week in a casino at my room. Then I'm bringing in fucking pounds of weed too that this school never seen up. Everybody's on fucking high now. And I'm bringing in pounds and selling it for way too much money because all these kids are like, where are you getting? How do you get it? Hey, it doesn't matter. So I had everything set up. So that went on for a couple years till I got asked to, stop by my mother. She knew you were running a drug business. She didn't know, but she knew if that makes sense, you know?

A mother has a way of knowing. Yes, you know, so, and I still remember the day I was talking to her on her phone and I'm coming down the highway. She's like, can I talk to you? My mother's a little Italian lady. I was like, sure. I'm thinking she never, usually she's hits me with a spoon. Like, you know, my mother still beats me at 40 years old.

You know what I mean? So she's like, can I talk to you? You know, I'm really concerned. You know how they're moms. I was like, got you, mom, no problem. shut it down. You shut it down for her? At the college.

And how long did you shut it down for? Well, I only shut it down to college and I left college and came back and then so I went all way. Now, at the second college, what's your degree you're studying for? Management. And do you end up getting that degree? I do, but I never did any homework. I paid for all my papers to get done.

I mean, I did zero. You were a businessman. I was a business. But listen, that's it. I know how to get the papers. I know what to do. And to this day, I still do the same thing. So I'm curious about the Kastew.

aspect of it. How did that work? How did that work in college? How did you run a casino and make money from it? So we had a blackjack table set up. We had C-Lo. I love C-Lo. I would take a dollar per play. 50 cents on blackjack. So you had the 50 cents if there's, we had three seats at the blackjack table. So I paid a girl to deal for us because Adair was co-ed room. So she would deal. The C-Lo, I had a guy just watching. He would just take a dollar out of the pot every time like that. And we just split it. And this is like when the internet was just getting around. So like nobody had online. Like I had a thing, you know, that noise. I don't know if you heard before, but trying to get online. There was no internet. So we had complaints every day about our room being until five

in the morning. That's when I shut it down. But I paid the RA on the thing. He was getting a thousand a week to shut up and make sure we're okay. So everybody was making money. So it was set up perfect. How much were you making? I was probably making $2,500 a week. Cash. That's crazy. And listen, that's more of my dad's make as an attorney at that time. You know what I mean? And I'm just, listen, putting it in. At that time, my roommate was my cousin and he probably still hates me.

But he actually left because it was just too much. I mean, we were just, listen, I didn't care about school. This is the business right here. Now, what are you doing with that money? Putting it away. And you're 20. I'm 21. I'm probably 20 to 21.

Yep. How do you have that mindset to just do that? that because most 20-year-olds are just pissing away that money they don't give a shit listen i wouldn't even buy sneakers i also like that's when car our sweatshirts are big i'd buy one like that keep give me the cash yeah so i just i never had that you know my father's always well dressed but again growing up my mom where we didn't have anything that didn't affect me i'd rather do things with it you know um i traveled a little bit like i would go see a girl in california or oregon you know that kind of stuff but i just i would put it away in the shoebox and what if someone like um

was around you. How do you think they would describe you from back then? What's your personality like? I was actually a good, a better guy back then. Not better. I'm a good guy now, I think. But, you know, I would do anything I can for people I like. I don't like a lot of people. That's the only thing. Like I don't. Yeah, you see, I mean, I like dogs. You know, because listen, they don't talk back. They love you and they leave you alone. But, you know, listen, I was a hustler. I mean, that's what they, everybody knew. I mean, if Devin's around is making money. He's not here unless there's a reason, you know, because I didn't, I don't hang out. I don't part you.

I didn't want to do any of that. You know, when I was selling a lot of weed, I would scrape the stuff off the table and sell it. Like, that's how tight I was. You know what I mean? Were you cocky at all? Like, were you an asshole? What was he said? No, I wasn't really an asshole because I always saw, you know, so let me, let me go there.

From college, I came into sports betting. So that's what I really like. You were in everything. I like taking bets. Okay? So as I'm leaving college, my mom didn't say anything about don't, don't be a bookie. I mean, you know, but I, but I, she said, don't be a drug dealer. She said, don't be a drug dealer, right.

So being a bookie turned into, I like that too much, you know, I love being in the house. So with the weed, we had, I had the money, the capital to start booking because you needed, you know, good money. You can't get a bad name from not paying. So that's why I did that. first set of money I saved I put into the, now I put it into the book. So I'm 22 now, run the book with a couple hundred people. I'm paying the guys the, the mob guy or Philly one day, one Christmas time, I'm giving them $20,000 in an envelope. Like this is just to leave me alone because they ran, I was only 20 minutes out of the Philly. So the mob guys were up there. They knew what was

happening. You know, if they're losing book, they know it's coming to the next guy. So they came and talked to me like, you got to pay. That's why you got the idea to pay them money. Yeah. I was like, Listen, no problem. Was it scary when they approached you? So, yes, yes, I'm not going to lie. Listen, I played softball in the city, and the underboss of the Philly Mow came up to me. He's like, take a ride with me. Fuck.

At your softball game. Now, at this time, I'm one of few dudes hitting home runs. I was good at softball. And they're betting $20,000 a game. This dude comes away. He's a guy to talk to you. Now, I've known him for a while. his name's mouse he's like

take your ride with me okay takes your ride he's like I ain't know what's going like you know at that time I already know what's

what it's all about I know he said you gotta pay something I got you that's it you just had the money to give to him

there it is yeah wow because you know my thing is it was coming so easy why piss anybody off and you know

people with the book you know with a book I was never about violence you know because that's what gets you in trouble. So instead of being, if you owe me 50,000, let's say, I'd start writing letters to your wife.

Hey, listen, he owes me 50,000. What can you do? Because gamblers don't want, they're not like drug addicts. They try to hide that. I'd go to your job. I'd send people. So two times I'd beat people up, that's it. Out of 20 years.

You beat people up if they owed you money. Twice. And only because they disrespect me. One dude, I beat up in a grocery store. In the middle of the grocery store. Oh, yeah. Wait, I got to hear this story. But I wasn't about violence.

I was more, and you get more money from that. Listen, if I break your legs, you're still not going to pay me. But if I embarrass you and tell your wife that you're gambling, you're going to pay something else. That's smart, yeah. So one of my runners was a dairy salesman. He sold like milk and yogurt and all that shit. What's her runner?

One of my, they would take bets for me. So I had guys in the office, you know, take the numbers. I would never watch a game. I would just call them, hey, listen, how much we have on the eat? Eagles game being right out of Philly country. If the Eagles won, I got buried all the time. Like, and Penn State, you know, so I hated the Eagles. I hated Penn State. I hate the fucking Phillies, you know, because they cost you money because, you know, but so one of my runners, you know, who worked for, you know, worked in the book, he would take bets for me on Sunday

usually on Saturday Sunday, but he also would take like we would take parlay cards and things like that. And he dropped them off at all his people during the week on his, on his milk route, and then pick them up. So I wanted to manage To this grocery store Ode me Five or seven thousand dollars Not a big deal

But you know I was like give me some Oh if you give me a hundred dollars a week I'm happy Just make an effort Don't have a new car And say you can't pay me You know because then I'm like

I feel some kind of way So this dude starts talking shit on me He calls me like I'm not fucking paying I was like Okay I got you So I was just in a mood one day

And this time I start doing This time I'm juiced up I'm juicing now Like that's the only drug I know, there was steroids, a lot of them. And I know what story is. And so I go, look at the store. I see this dude.

And he's like, talking shit. See my man, listen. We can do this two ways and both ways I'm going to win. And he swung at me. Okay. So I fucked him up in the store down the whole aisle. The whole soup aisle was a soup aisle and beans and shit. So I take this dude, beat him, and then take him down the aisle into the thing everywhere.

Okay. Well, the next day I'm at the gym and the cop I know, stay true, was like, Hey, listen, man, you got to go to the store. I'm not fucking, tell him to charge me, you know. Now you got to go. Okay. So I go to the store, they made me buy all the dened soup cans. And they didn't press the charges, right?

He didn't, because he knew, but I had to buy all the $960 for the damage merchant, which I donated to the soup kitchen. So that's how I was. You know, like I said, it wasn't about violence. But, you know, let's kick back that same year, I'm there with my daughter's mother at at the time, about the casino. little thing where like your tits hanging out, you know. And I'm playing table and this time and I I do play at the casino. So I'm playing me five dollars a hand blackjack and I'm 22, 23, but

you got 20 gram up, I don't care. But I'm on a run. I'm probably up $25,000. And this guy comes up to me. And at this time, I'm also playing with the state police softball team selling drugs, gambling. I'm playing with the state police softball team. So, you know, I was writing, you know, and guy comes up and he's like lean over my girl's and she knows not to say anything like i protect you to the end but listen i don't care if everybody wants to fuck my chick i'll look and i'm like ha ha i'm taking home night and you're not like that's i'm just a cocky prick like like that like look all you want you know don't disrespect her don't just do whatever you want so he looks over and he puts his head over her shoulder like those so she's like devon keats

i was like my man back the fuck up a little bit now i'm gonna run like i don't give a fuck about what's going on but i'm gonna run like i'm making you know like something up 25000 dude comes back and she hits me. So I turned around like my man and he raises a club. Wack. Drop this dude right in the middle of the casino, right in the middle of the floor. I look over and one of the guys that played softball was undercover cop in the casino. So he turns around.

I was like, all right. So I pick my money up for my chips. I go to the thing cash out. I'm walking out in this little security guard, right, 5, 9, 140 pounds. I say, Mr. Riley, can you please stop? I'm like, no, man. So I take my car. So I'm a little dick.

I take you guys to fucking charge me here take my card you find out where I live and everything so my girl's like just stop he's gonna lose his job like all right what do I do I stopped they pulled me upstairs and cells in the casinos you have cells of the gate so I'm locked up in a casino at 23 years old yeah by by a cop and then so the state police come in well the state police was like maybe she wasn't wearing that shirt you wouldn't have a problem well then she starts running her fucking hell. I was like, they're writing me more charges. Not you. Shut up.

So I go out of there like seven charges at a casino because the dude was messing with my chick. So my father being an attorney at this time, I called and I was like, listen, got a little incident in Lange's here. I got a few charges, no problem. I also had a speeding ticket down there.

My father's slick, he says, there's two casinos or two courthouse in Lank City, two sides. One for like traffic, one for other stuff. my father gets it all scheduled in the traffic one. The dude that I hit in the casino was in the other one, they call his name three times, dismiss it. Oh, wow.

So, you know, like I get out of trouble, like, probably more than I should have, being like that. And that might have made me go a little further in different things, you know, in life because. Was that the first time you were ever, like, arrested in that sense? I got arrested a few times just for fights, like, local. Yeah, nothing. Nothing big that wants to come. Right.

No, no, no. And the thing is, I got very complacent. And what I was doing is one of the problems. You know, like I'm selling 100 pounds when I'm playing in the parking lot of the softball field with the cops. I'm pulling in with a trunk full wheat and selling it.

I'm having somebody come pick it up out of my trunk because I'm playing softball. It was also a different time period back. Way different. You couldn't do that now. No. I wouldn't, if people could, right now, the way, well, you see, people can't hold water now.

You can't, the drug game is so messed up now. Like, I wouldn't even consider. I mean, not even, there's not enough money to ever even consider doing it again. Now, were you a gambler like an addict or were you just doing it for fun? I don't like gamble. I like money. So, and when I try to explain to people, there's a difference. I've studied gamblers, you know, watching them because, you know, like, I wouldn't,

I didn't watch a football game for years. I just wanted to who I needed to win and tell me what my end, and result is. So I don't, I don't like gamble and like, I don't like the rush. I want to know, I want to make money. So if I take 20,000 to Vegas, if I make 20 out, I leave. If I lose 20, I walk away. I don't chase it. I don't like that.

I like money. That's hard to do. It is, listen, money and women are my vices. I can tell you what my, but I don't drink, which makes me help better decisions. That's true. You understand? So, again, it revolves around money is what, you know. You had such a strong mindset, though.

Like, that could have been channeled to something so good, too. Like at that time, I know you did later on, but early. But that's what, that's what, when I was. I got charged. You see, that's the problem. That's why I got such, you know, high numbers because, listen, everybody did psychiatrists that I went to in prison. Like, you're an asshole. Like, you could have done anything you wanted. You know, but it's not about that. You know, it was about putting it all together. I've ran my drug operation like a business. I mean, that's what it was. I mean, the most successful drug dealers don't do their own drugs and they treat it like a business.

And that's what it was. That's why like the cartel is successful. Yeah. And their money coming in. It's crazy. But it's just, it's, you know, if you know, If you do it, you can't make good decisions. I've seen so many people lose everything you have because of alcohol and drugs and gambling. I think people actually, I think gamblers lose more than drug addicts. I mean, I think gambling's much worse. Because you're losing your possession, your life, everything.

You're losing everything. Right. And the things you're always chasing. Listen, when you do drugs and you can't afford it anymore, then you're stuck and you're shivering on the floor. Yeah. You know, when you're gambling, you find another book that's going to take your action. True.

So it's just gambling. I've just seen it ruin so many people. But again, I enjoy. enjoyed being the house. You know, and that's, that's one thing that if I could buy right now, because, you know, I would. Now at 22, you had a kid or you were about to have a kid? So my first, yes, I, so I had my first son at 22. An accident or? None of them were plans. None of them were planned. That's such a young age to have a kid, man. I know. That's crazy. He's lucky I like him, but I tell him all the time,

his mother should have swallowed him. Like, life would be so much easier. You say that to your Oh, yeah, all the time. Oh, bad. So, yeah, like, I have four children. I speak to my, I don't speak to my youngest son. He's 22. I haven't spoke to him, but probably five years. Five or six years, he was the, he came up as the entitled one.

So my son, so I have a daughter by one lady, have two children's mom. So a daughter and then three sons by another one. And the three sons, none of them were planned. I wasn't even with her for the, three kids. Like I picked her up one time for any year and like banged around and knocked her up. Like you know, I always made a joke like I know you just spit

in the ice cube tray and when you get mad me you fucking jam one in like you know that's because I don't know how these kids all came. I really don't. But my oldest son is he's he's aces man. Devin Jr. He's running a construction company. He's my right hand man all the time. Chase, my next

son, he's an idiot. He's a gambler. I wonder where he gets him. It comes nationally. you know but he he's a chaser like he loves that where if you if i make a thousand dollars i'm happy he can be up five thousand i was like chase cash out like well stop now i might make it 10 you make another five tomorrow stop now but he doesn't so my my youngest i was saying is um he was 16 and he called me he said uh i want chase who is the middle he was 18 at time i need to borrow f450 or f550 which is big work truck. He's like, he's not driving that truck. But I said, what do you need? Like,

tell him what you need. He hangs up on me. First of all, I'm big on respect. Like, don't want to fucking hang up with me. You know, like, so I call him back and you an answer. Okay. Well, I mean, no big deal. The next day I go to his house, you know, his mother who hates me, of course. If I had come home and been a crackhead, she'd love me. But I came home, you're kind of successful, you know, hustling right away. And she hated me. So, he gets me the finger out of the door so i'm like hold on this little like i'll beat you like a man like it doesn't matter of your blood or not haven't talked to him since because you beat him up i didn't beat him up i should have and i didn't even get out of car i said no problem i called his mom

so you're going to let him treat me like that he's like he can do it every once okay no problem and the mom you're not close with at all so did you end up with either woman oh so it didn't work out either way like you said the the my son's mother with the three sons when i had Devin, we were breaking up. That was the casino woman that we were talking? So listen, this is how, this is how twisted this all gets. The casino woman was during, I got, I had a kid with somebody else when I was with her. Oh, okay. I had my last kid with her. The daughter. The daughter was with her. Yes. This whole story is fucked up. Yeah, it's fine. Listen, you do a map to draw the stuff. It's all in the book that's coming out. So yeah, it's, yeah, so I had a kid. I was with Jeanette as her name, my daughter's

mother when I had my sons. Okay. And, you know, Jeanette, when I had my last son with, with Nicole was my son's mother, I said, Jeanette walks in and she's crying. They didn't know each other at the time. And she's like, I see her crying. And I knew what it was. She was like, Nicole's like four months pregnant with my younger son at the time. I was like, what's up? And she, this is now, there's internet now a little bit. She's crying. I was like, you got Nicole pregnant again? I was like, oh, fuck, did I forget to tell you? And she's like, oh, I was like, listen, I'm not going to fight about either we get over it or I leave. I mean, it's that simple. And we got over for a little bit and then just didn't.

What did your parents think about having a kid that young? My mother actually liked it because she thought it would calm me down. And she wanted to be a grandmother. Yeah, she wanted to know, exactly. My father, he didn't care because he didn't care when I was a kid. You know what I mean? Like he was like, oh, you're not a kid. Here's kid. He might have seen my son's 10 times and, you know, five. Five times a year, maybe, I don't know, if that. You know, when I was in prison, I saw my dad me five times.

I could call him any time, but he never came up. My stepfather, never missed a weekend. And you know, that's important. Yeah. Especially then. You know what I mean? Like, he's aces. So 22, you have this successful book.

Why don't you just stick with that? Like, why even get back into something? So, because, so let's see, what kept it going? I was in a raid that they let me walk from. What do you mean let you walk? Like what happened? I was in this guy's house who I didn't have business with. We actually just went to, we used to go to like car stereo.

So the guy that sits on my car. We go to these competitions and things. He gets raiding. You know, he was a Coke dealer. And he gets raided. I'm sitting on the fucking couch. And they feds, blows door. Like, you were you?

I was like, oh, Jesus Christ. I'm dirty as fuck. My car is full. But we didn't have that thing. And my car is parked to call street at the time. So he didn't get in my car. All right. Get out of here.

I was like, okay. You got life. Yeah, but I'm gone. And then I actually started growing weed to that next year in the woods. This before, so we were growing this skunk weed at the time. And at the end, you get by the garbage weed for like 800 pound. This stuff's going for 3,500 pounds. So I hook up with a guy that's growing 100 pounds a year outside.

So I like doing that too. And this is a 22 years old. Yeah, 22, 23, yep. And you never even considered working at regular job ever after college? Like, do you even apply anywhere? No, so I started a detail shop. Okay. And I called a clean getaway.

This is to launder the money, I'm guessing. So I had a detail shop. No, you know, I work for the city of Millville because I knew the controller at the time. And there was a hiring freeze. I just wanted to see if I get a job. It's because, you know, everything's, I'm going to get a job. Making $400 a week is not, you're not doing it for $400 a week. So I worked in the city for a couple years and I was like,

I'm not doing this shit. I didn't even cash a check for a year. Like they had to tell me to cash my checks. Because you were just holding. I was just like $4.84. You know, something like that. It didn't do anything. That's kind of like a lot for back then, though, no?

At that age? Yeah, but not when you're... Listen, I can sell a pound of weed and make that. Yeah. And I'm selling them to 100 pounds a week. I'm meeting the cop from Philly who's selling me to weed. A dirty cop. A dirty cop.

He would drive over the bridge sometimes and maybe in his Philadelphia cop car to buy wheat. Wow. Yeah. So it was just. So where are you keeping all this cash? Because you're bringing in thousands at this point. So I used my dad's house to stash spot until he found it. He found the stash spot.

He found my drugs and my money one time. Yeah, yeah. What does he say to you? Well, because I didn't have, you know, back then there was not near as much. And so I would like take his couch cushions and I put like 10,000 wrap it and stick it between his couch cushions like in a room he didn't sit in. And I would take the vet covers off like in the basement of like the return ducts and stick coke in there.

So I can always just stop by, grab four ounce, whatever. But that, you know, like that's where I hit on my ship. One day, my dad's such a psycho. He saw my footprints in the carpet downstairs. Like, what's going on here? Opens up. Well, that just, my father being who he is, he went through his whole house, found that. He got rid of the cash.

His wife took some cash. It was probably me 40, 50,000. But, you know, I got some of them back, but she still smet some, you know. So that's what I was doing. I didn't, that was the biggest problem is, What do you do with your money? Because you're always scared somebody's going to steal it. I always had an apartment, but every time I go away, it get broken into.

So if I had somebody sitting there and it didn't matter. So that's one of the hardest things about making that money is where do you put it? You know, like you don't have any, you don't trust anybody. My kid's mom, she hates my life. So if she could take it, she's going to steal it just to hurt me. Can't put in a bank. Can't put in a bank. You know, the company's making, how many cars can I possibly do?

I mean, we're busy. I got a bunch of people work for it, but you can only do so much out of a shop. You never had partners. You were this, you know, you Google your name, and it seems like you're working with like the cartel and all this crazy shit.

You know, I was always connected with some of those guys, but I never. You had to be because you're buying and dealings, this and that. So you had no partners. Man. The dude that told me, Rosetti,

the kid, you know, you saw the video, he was my closest thing. I was getting out of drugs. My 30-second birthday, I was getting out of drugs. I don't like drugs this day. I think they're disgusting.

My 32nd birthday, I was giving him everything. So he would have made, what we would, at that time, we would bring in, let's say, 10 keys from Florida. And they were only $16,000 apiece back then. If you didn't touch it, you can sell them for 25. And I was going to give him all that. Like, here's the connection. You know, I had to introduce him the connection that I've,

I busted my ass to find this connection in Florida. and I'd pay a mule a thousand dollars a key to bring it back up for me on the bus a bus from florida to hear Florida Jersey so you're you don't have to go to Florida and I would fly down with cash I would give him the cash right so I back then before 9-11 I would put cash in my carrying on the bottom of thing just filled with clothes they didn't check you back that or I'd have it in my waist you know things like that now you can't carry five dollars in there on you so I would fly down over the money and then set him back up on the bus and he He's just care.

How much, how, what does that look like all this? 10 kilos in a duffel bag. Back across to New Jersey. On a bus, which was a terrible ride. But listen, he's making 10 grand for two days. How often did you do this? Once a month. And that would turn into how much profit.

So I would, we would, we cut it a little bit. I might put four ounces on a key at that time. I was probably making 40,000 to 50,000 a month. And what is cutting mean in drug terms? I put I sit tall, which is the body. building thing, we'd just mash up the brick of Coke, mix it with four ounces, and put it back together. And that's safe? Like, no one's dying from the- No, it's not like this, whatever. Fenton. No, this is just a bodybuilding supplement. They do shiny and white. And this is just to make it

look like there's more than what these people are actually getting. Just to add four ounces. So you could add sugar to it, basically. Yeah, they would know that. This blended well. So you take 36 ounce to make it 40 ounces. Or I make nine hours to make it 10. This is crazy. Yeah, but that's where the money was. So I was going to give them that because all I was going to do is take, I was in the real estate in my 30s. You know, this one I started getting in real estate. I was ready to go 100% legit. I say 180% legit because I still want to do, I still want to be a book. Like I still want to take bets.

But drugs, I was like over drugs. So you had like a 12 year run basically in this business. Oh, yeah, 12. I think it was 14 years. I think there's not many people in the world that can have that long of a run in this business. Because I was never flashy. You think that was the key to it? I had a Mercedes, a E55 in 2002 or two or three.

In 2003, nobody even knew I had it. I only took it when I go out. I kept in a garage another 40 miles away. I lived in a rental. I didn't, nothing, you know, I drove a piece of shit truck. How much money would you say you made in total throughout this whole empire? A few million easy. All cash.

So how does that get? laundered because it's not all through the detailing. No, no. So, you know, because I was, I'd spend a lot of cash on stuff. I had, I had different people to also take cash from me. You know, like, so I would have something buy a car for me. So I had a contractor at the time that I gave him 70,000. He bought me a truck, a navigator and gave it to me. You know, that kind thing. So it was, it was more of how do I make, how do I make everybody happy here? So it cost me a lot of money to get it clean, but I was okay with it. Because, you know, I say, listen, here's 50, here's 50 grand, give me a $20,000 car, keep the rest.

Well, who's not going to do that? Yeah. You know, so there are the things that we came into. You know, I met doctors. I met judges. Taking bets, you meet a lot of people. So that was kind of like my connection to get rid of things, high things. I was also going to Costa Rica, which I can't get back to.

I had, when they arrested me, I had 27 trips to Costa Rica. Wow. We're in a bank there. Oh, you had foreign money. So what, no, I take you from here and drive, take you to Costa Rica, deposit there. Wow. And so that's still there.

Some Jordan Belfort shit right now. Yeah. The money in Costa Rica is still there. However, I'm pretty sure if I ever got on a plane to go there, that they would still try to get me. They'd arrest. Come home. Yeah, because, you know, and my attorney's like, well, you can go get it,

but she's got to pay tax on it. I'm not risking that. I'm not going back. Whoever said prison is fun lied. It's just no fun. Did you have a number in your head that you wanted to achieve before getting out of the game? Or you were just, go, go, go, go. I didn't.

I had one of my good friends, her name is Alyssa. She's still my good friend. She would always be on me. I thought you're getting out. You got out. You know how these girls are. And so I didn't have a number. I had more today.

Like my 32nd birthday, I'm done. Keith's going to take it. And what happens right before that we get knocked off. I'm just mind blown by your. mindset like you it's a total opposite of what you would think for a drug dealer and like where did where do you think it came from your mom your dad a mixture of both your grandfather i i my father was not my father um even though he's super intelligent he just listen he's broke today as a very successful attorney been married five times you know he just didn't didn't put it together you know um

i think it was more just watching i think i learned on my own um because i didn't have like My grandfather was my mentor, you know, growing up until the day he died. But he, I was never, like you said, it comes back to just business. And I didn't, if I, I think if I would have drank or got high, my life would have been totally different today. In everything I do, even when I came home. But I just have no desire to be out of control. And I'm not a controlling person. I'm going to control myself.

Like, I don't tell my chick, what she can, none of that. So my mentality, that's just been my mentality forever. And it's hard to try to show people that as well because that's the key. Discipline's the key to everything when it comes down to it. So I play softball. I hit every day because I want to be better than everybody around. You know, that's just the mentality I have. And I always want to, I want to win.

Yeah. So, I mean, that's, you know. How do you think you were as a father during that time period? Terrible. A piece of shit. 100%. I'm definitely, I don't like kids. You had kids.

Not on purpose. So, listen, I was definitely not a good father ever. I'm better when they're grown and can say, hey, dad, what can you do? Because right now, my oldest, like, I will set them up. So when they're 17, I love them. But when they're 12 and crying, or they get away from me. My Chase and Devin, my two oldest, they were fighting one day over a Game Boy in a car. This shit I am.

I was like, let me see that. They get throughout the window. Now you fuckers can't fight at all. So that's the kind of guy. I was like, this, like, you want to fight? Fight me. You know, my middle son, I keep talking about Chase, but I was watching one day, and he came, he and his brother got in a fight.

He was probably four, Devin was six or seven. And this is about a year before I got in trouble. Chase comes out of the bedroom, after I threw Chase in his bedroom because he was fighting. He comes out and kicks Devin in the face, right? Because he's still pissed an hour later. So I jump out of the thing. I jump out of the chair, smack his ass like hard as I could and hurt my hand. This little fuck.

her turns around and said me not going to cry and russell's room i was like but so you know that i wasn't his their mothers actually were very good moms which so i'm lucky for that they just hated me so they turned my youngest son against me because she wanted somebody on her side and did that did the mothers know what you were involved oh yeah everyone up so they were they were they were cool as long as the money was flowing in they're eating dinners they were not paying rent you know of course yeah they um they were all they were all they knew listen my daughter's mom was right or die but with that she was also on the edge where she'd be to want to pull a trigger when she's mad at me you know what I'm saying so loyal that when things went bad she shoot she shoot me yeah where my son's mother she was just

she has no loyalty excuse me ever dead you know she was just like if you get in trouble too bad and what is your mom saying to you at like the peak of this because you promised her and then you went back on it so mom new, but I was also taking mom to Florida. So she was going along. Yeah, and just saying, you know, maybe he's not doing it. I think in her mind, she just, he's not doing it anymore. No.

The detail business, the real estate. I was in real estate. I think in real estate when I was 29 and real estate was insane back then. And that's when the market was just nuts. I mean, so when I got raided, they called the Operation Deal breaker because they were listening to my phone calls for 18 months. I didn't know this. But I was, because I was on the phone, make the fucking deal.

So I was calling Michelle, who, actually was my girlfriend now, well, not now, but was for years. I got in trouble with her, but I was like, make the deal. Because she's always going, hey, listen, and I was an agent, she owned a real estate brokerage at that time, and I was an agent working for her, and I would break her balls like, oh, can we make this happen? It's like, nope, give me this what I want. So I was real, like, they want deceptic. I was like, we're not doing anything. You want the house or buy it or not, make the deal. So they called Operation Deal Breakers because I was always making deals on a phone. Did you have any close run-ins like over this 10-year span with almost getting arrested?

So I got pulled over in Atlantic City with 150 pounds in the trunk. Car smelled. I was like, I'm done. Of weed. Of weed. Okay. I'm done. Like, I mean, I could smell it.

It was a female state trooper. She came to the car and it's probably 11 or 12 o'clock at night. It's, you know, give her license. and Mr. Riley, you've been drinking night. He's like, just water. I don't drink. You know, she's like, okay. And she's looking like, I'm thinking she's just buying time

because if not, I'm taking off. And she gives me a life, but I said, be safe. Okay, you should. What do you think that was? I have no idea. But she definitely knew. So then, you know, when something you're panicked, like, fuck. So I get two miles down the road.

I'm throwing a shit in the woods. You threw out of the woods? Oh, yeah. Why were you even moving? that to begin with on your own at that level. Because I was bringing it from a buddy of mine to me. And it was just best for me to do it right then. Because, you know, listen, I always, I never sped.

I, you know, I knew anything. And again, I said, I got complacent. I wasn't worried about anything. What I should have known better. You know, I should have known better. And that didn't scare you to say, hey, I got to stop. Like, this was too close, you know.

No, because I was, like, I dropped off 10 pounds at the mall one time. Like, remember I that you used to have lockers in a while. know if you're young but these have lockers in the mall yeah like in the movies they had the meetups and so i would drop stuff in lockers just like you know and like i would see the task force so i had people on the inside i had all license the number i had all cars had picture everybody was on the task force for the county i lived in so i knew who the players were too so if i saw them i knew something was wrong i actually fought a couple cops a few times uh in my town that just didn't like me like they were at the bar and they hit me or you know just and i never listen i'm not one to

tell. Like, we're going to fight. We're going to fight. You know? So I had a respect with the, they respect me as I respected them as well. They have a job. It was always a game to me. Listen, you got a job to do. I got a job to do. You know, cops and robbers. So you literally could have got away with all of this.

That's got to fuck you up to this day. You know what though? It does but it doesn't because if Rosetti didn't tell on us and you know, you told it like he told, so he told on not only me, I had 34 or five co-defendants. Okay, he told on people, I didn't even know.

Like, he just drove around these dudes telling them everything. All right, so let's get to that. How do you find out their first investigating you? I didn't know. You had no idea. So I call, so I was playing softball around the country, you know, and I met a guy that lived in my area. And he was a junior black mafia or junior black panther, whatever was. And we, you know, got talking, he knew I was, blah, blah, blah.

I knew him. And so, you know, we developed a relationship. So if, if he needed something or I needed something, I would just call him up and I wouldn't buy it. I would borrow and just give it back to him or he would do the same thing when he got his thing in, you know, whatever. So I'm, this time I'm, like you said, I'm playing ball. I call him by saying, hey, I need nine ounces. He's like, sure, I'll leave in a car to gym. So I drive to Washington Town, like 20 minutes away, pick it up. And I said, at that time, I'm selling steroids too. So anything I get my hands on, you know, So I had 50,000 D-ball, which were little like pink stop signs at the time in a, I call them pound bags, but like the Ziploc bags, full D-ball and nine ounces. But again, I've been doing so long, I don't get nervous.

I'm coming down's back road. I see a cop sitting in the parking lot. Listen, I got the windows down. I'm cruise control 50. I didn't go 51. I didn't go 49. I had my shit on 50. Cop pulls up behind me.

So at that time, my daughter's mom was dating a cop. So I'm thinking maybe this is what it is You know and again I'm not worried my bag's in the back You're not searching my car Like I know every I studied every law there is So I'm in there

I got and I had come from my gym I got basketball shorts on And a tank top And I'm jacked up at the time So this cop comes up to me And he's like Licensored register I give it to him

Now you can't smell anything You can't smell my ounce You can't smell anything I got all the windows down Comes back And as he comes back to the car He asks me like How's your license?

I see another cop pull over on the side. Like, hmm. So now I think, like, because we're on like a back road, they're going to take me out and just whooped the shit out of me. For Jeanette, you know, my daughter's mom, my daughter's mother's boyfriend, because, you know, like, I kind of talk shit back to him back and forth here and that. So I'm like, and another one comes up, like, hmm.

So the sergeant comes, O'Brien comes up to me, he's like, get out of the car. You're nuts? No. He breached your car and tries to pull me out of the window. At this time, I'm, first of all, I'm six. three. I'm probably 305 pounds juiced out of my head.

Put it in, drive. Drive off. I drive off. So, I get on the phone, I call Michelle, who was my broker, who this girl, she won't very good friends. She owns the real, I was like, listen, I'm probably not going to make the office today. Okay. The cops are behind me. I hang up with her. I call a floral

place. I order flowers for this other chick that I was talking to, right? This is no shit. That's the cops are behind me. Now, I know where I'm on, I'm going to the lake. And there's a lake about seven miles away from me. But I'm not going to speed here. I'm not going to break any laws. So the cops are tailing you. They're there right behind me. So I'm, I grabbed the bag and I take out. He had the, um, the nine ounces wrapped in like a couple, like the plastic, like, uh, shop, shopping bags. So I take them out and they're just so I have one zip lock now. So I put that in my pants. And I'm, as I'm going around Ben's, I'm throwing these

bags out of the window. So they can't see them, you know, as they're, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, going this way. They're behind me. They can't see the bags for them. So I'm getting real. I grab the D ball. I put that in my shirt. I tuck my shirt in. And I see there's a, I see two cops right here. They block me off like, like, fuck. So I stop. And they, you know, there are cars like this. No, I go right around. So I get, I get to the stop street, put my blinker on, look both ways. Take all. Well, now I'm going to a mile further down the road. And now I see 20 cops behind me. I'm like, ah, shit. You know, but hey, let's. Listen, at that time, you're not going to catch me.

And I'm not worried. Like, you know, I make it right on this road. I go, I see the little lake, Malaga Lake. Pull right in the parking lot, pull up, get out of the truck, get in the water. You went in the water. I jumped right in the water. Yeah, that's on the internet. I jump in the water.

I open my, I open the bag. I'm breaking the coke up out of the brick. And you see a big cloud go by and I get the bag and the bag floats down. I empty the D ball out. So your priority is just making sure. You don't get caught with drugs on you. Yeah. So why don't you just throw that shit out the window?

Because they could get in the water or not getting. Okay. So by this time, I'm probably 50 feet out in the lily pads in the lake. And every cop's out there with long guns. I'm like, and they're talking shit. And I'm just cocky and arrogant at a time. I'm jacked up. Like, you know, hands up.

All right, you got me. And you don't know why they were after you to begin with. I don't know at all. So. So when I get out of the world, they go to beating the shit out of me. Like they hog tie me. So the hands behind the back,

feet tied up. And like I said, I was a big dude. Like I was jack at the time. So I'm like, you know, and they just, I got longer hair at the top.

And they grab my hair and they're empty in the mace. So one can't empty these and they're like, give me another one. I'm like, so I'm like, yo, I can't breathe.

I can't. And I'm like, I'm going to die here, bro, you know? But I don't need to say anything. They keep beating on me. they finally, I say, listen, I can't breathe. Like, I can't breathe.

Because they were opening my mouth because they're pulling my hair back. You know, and there's open. So they take me this little shitty Franklinville Police Department. You're telling me you weren't fighting back at all. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination

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Price line. I walked right out of water like this. Why would they just attack you like this? Because I ran from them. That's what they did? Oh, yeah. Wow. And this is in 2000, in 2004.

Okay, and then they take you the little police station. So I'm in there talking shit. Right. I smell like straight swamp water. I'm in the lily pads. I got lily pads hanging out my ass. And I'm hitting on the girl processing me. Like that's how much I didn't care.

So, because I figure I'm getting out. Listen, by this time I got, I know all the good attorneys. I'm good. And you weren't caught with drugs on. You know how many drugs on me? You're straight. Yeah. What are you going to do?

So they impound a truck. And I said, all right, well, you have $50,000 bailed. I said, what's the fast you ever seen anybody bailed out? You know, because it's a little hicc. talking shit if you're out here in 15 minutes you're going to the county and not going to process

for the week I was like all right make a phone call but what they did was I had two cell phones at the time one for work kind of like real estate one they give my phones back

so me being a thinking I'm smart I am I use my phone it's their phone I call hey listen go grab 50,000 out of safe

this is where I am I need you here in 15 minutes call this girl she okay come bring me 50,000 They let me go, but they won't get my truck, but they give my phones. So I get to my, at this house, I was living with another girl, but I had a rental house, like close to my office where I was selling real estate. So I go there, I was like, I better clean this out just in case.

So all I have there is a scale and some steroids. Everything else is going and a couple thousand cash. Because I'm thinking they might come, you know, if they put enough together, they may come get me, you know, for that for like a looting or something because they didn't charge me at the time. Yeah, what did they charge you with when you were processed? it was a couple third degree charges and nothing that related to the original pullover yeah just the pull and then they didn't give me a looting it gave me like um illegal left turn and something else like some dumb shit so you get back to this house what do you do so i get i clean it out like everything got like i'm if there was if we cut coke up on the table i'm i'm swiffing that thing out you know like

i'm clean so it's clean but i leave the scale on his big beautiful scale it was like this big you know big industrial scale, which I left there. You know, what are they going to do? So I get my kids the file on Friday for visitation. And at that time, I spoke about Michelle. Michelle had his son and I was on real estate for her. You know, she's a good friend of mine. I actually sold her house because I was going to build her another one.

And she was living in this house in Pittsgrove that I was living in two when my girlfriend's house. But she lived in the other house. side like we weren't together and I hear about five in the morning I hear I'm like ah shit so I jump out of bed you know and I at that time I had a massive but he was outside and I hear him barking and all of a sudden I her window where boom they throw a flash thing through my bedroom window so I'm on the ground butt-ass naked condom on the floor right because I was bang this chick earlier in the day you know like just show you scumbag and they come in like deep who is arresting you like who's

coming at the feds the feds the feds in the d i v i'm like okay so again i don't think it's a big deal at all because the fbi i coming at you but i think it's from this thing before because listen at that point i had i just i didn't i barely touch anything once a month you know drugs wise and like said it just got to a point where this what i did every day you know so there was no paperwork there Like I had another office. I did the book, Betting it. So there's nothing at the house.

You know, a couple thousand dollars in one of my suit pockets. So they're going through the house and they're tearing it up. So they take her out. And her son and my kids, my three boys are there.

And they take them out like gunpoint. So like, this is bullshit. Well, I always like, I don't ever, I don't like dressing up, but I'm always like put together.

Like you'll never seem like in a Walmart, like in the white shirt and like, you know how these, so many people go out to the store. I also had some nice t-shirt jeans on every time I go out well they put me in sweatpants slippers and like a shirt that didn't match the cops did okay because they knew like I was always kind of put together

so again they're asking me questions but I'm not in answer I was like listen call my attorney you know and I hear like what's that noise they're bringing a back oh down the road to dig up my backyard but they're in the wrong spot like these don't fucks like you know so I'm like no big deal well So the DEA, one guy takes me, a fat guy, puts me in the back of the car. He's like, you want to talk about this?

He's like, you know, he's like, do you want to tell me about the bank robbery? I was like, oh, my God. They tried to put this bank robber on me because I knew the guys that did it. They thought you were a bank robber. Yeah, they thought. I say, I'm nasty. I'm not, I'm going to walk in the bank, 6, 3, 290, give me your money. Like, you're not going to know what was me.

Like, it wasn't me. So they're like, but we know you know who did it. You orchestrated it. You were the mastermind. I was like, I don't know what you talk about. Well, as we pulled down the road, we're going by the real estate office, and I see the feds carrying all the shit out of there. I'm like, oh, that's not good. You know, the computers and things.

And it's Michelle's office. This girl that's done. She, the girl with Michelle has never even seen drugs, gambled. Like, she's probably the most innocent of the person you ever meet. Did she know what you were doing was illegal, though? People had told her, and since I passed the background check to get my real estate license, she was like, listen, he passed the background check. He's good. And I'm making her money.

You know, like, I'm selling house. Like, I'm good at what I do. So she may have known, but she didn't know, if that makes sense. And like you said, she's never seen drugs. She's never seen big amounts of money. Like, that's just not the world. She lives in a bubble. So we're driving by her office, and I see him walking out with his computer.

And she's like, oh, fuck. We go down about a mile, make it left. And there's a fire department. And all of a sudden, I see, like, TV station, three, six and ten. And I see those red antennas up. I'm like, all this for running from the cops. Like, what? We make it out of left.

All I see is half my guys. So they sweat. They did a suite. They picked everybody out. All the guys that were working for you. I'm like, fuck. How did they manage to get everyone? Phone taps.

So they were tapping you for a while. 18 months, for 18 months, I was under 24 hours of surveillance. Do you know why they first started investigating you? So they investigated me. Come to find out. So the feds originally were on the day of, But the state had been investigating me since for years and years because I would say I got it from here. I got them here. They put me into it But when I got there when they they said

What did they say? There was 16,000 hours of phone calls that they and because of the Patriot Act is the only way they got the warrant for me One phone call so after 9-11 the Patriot comes in the feds went as me as a terrorist you know used that as a way to get a phone tap my phone and they did it for 18 months but what did you say that triggered so i had one call so i went into 7-11 and this one the burners had just come out and i opened up i buy 70 i back down it's like 70 bucks because these 10 kilos never came up like they didn't get here so i called down there it's like yo shit i never got out here like do you know what's going on because i couldn't get a hold of anybody that's all i said and they were just going through all the phones

well i took the phone broken put it in trash well the feds had a box in the time I'm from because of the Patriarch because of bin Laden they could pick up any sick anything I was using they had they had a warrant a rovied warrant they called it. They had access to anything I touched so if I would have used your cell phone they could get this signal off of the phone. They like you said this one was analog before there's all the digital stuff now they could take it and hear what we're talking about wow so that's what kicked it a whole off so I was under 24 hours surveillance for 18 months I didn't know it they were good I'm playing softball all over the country. I was in Texas. I see a guy and they're hitting. I'm going out and I'm getting some balls

where home runs are hitting pictures. I'm like, what's up, man? What are you fucking doing taking pictures? Like, ah, you know, we're taking pictures of a paper. But they're why taking pictures of me? Isn't it crazy how the Fed just like, they could go on forever for those investigations? They want to be bulletproof. Yeah. And so I get arrested that. I get arrested and I see 30 people I know. And then I see Jamal, who was the other, he wasn't, we didn't do business. like that. So I know he's got his own shit going on too. So I'm sitting in a thing and that's when Acon came out with Locked Up.

The classic song. Listen, these motherfucking cops, this is no bullshit. I was in the fire station locked up. The fire station. That was the central reception point where they were taking people out and that's where they're processed and everybody. They took 10,000 fingerprints on me. They played locked up for seven hours straight on repeat.

Like just wanted to kill myself. So, and then they asked, do you want to cooperate? I was like, no. Like, that's, I'm different. Nobody made me sell drugs. I chose to sell drugs. And I'm thinking, I'm looking around like, I think everybody's good. Like, just, I'm talking about like, well, then they arrested Michelle, who to grow us living with.

So let me, real quick, go back to Michelle. So Michelle and I were selling real estate, we did real well together. She was the broker. But I'm a sales guy, and she's the most honest person you ever meet. We had a piece of land for sale for a million dollars. okay and she had people came to flew in I said listen I'm gonna go I sell it to them you go with me as the broker you know I was still fresh but I'm I can sell so we're driving down the highway and one of the guys says um he said so how hard is it get like zoning permits and everything

and my first response is if you know the right people we can get it you know she says well you know we just had people that just had lost that land because they couldn't get one I'm like Michelle so I'm look, I don't say anything so we get back to the office that people never call us because now they can't, let's try, get them hooked and we'll work it out, figure out how to get it. So I said, Michelle, we have a new code word. It's sunshine. When I need you to stop talking, I'm saying, Sunshine, you know, and you stop talking. She's like, okay. So she's crying at the fireplace. I was like, Sunshine, you're fine. Like, I know you did nothing wrong. They charge her with Kingpin, seem to charge me with it. So you were charged on the federal level as Kingpin. It was federal

charges first. So my attorney comes down. He sees it on TV. I don't even get a phone call. Now, I'm banging a chick that works in the process in the sheriff's department. You understand? Like, I'm banging the cop's wife that was headed the investigation. And I didn't know it. He didn't know it because the people were listening to my phone calls couldn't tell them because then he'd tell her. So I had a whole lot of shit going on the outside that nobody knew about, you know? So they arrest her, they charge her kingpin. And her bail is $250,000. This bitch is never, she's never done anything wrong in her life. She doesn't even speak.

But they think she knows more about me because we talk so much. They're putting the pressure on her. She never folds. Doesn't say a word. Nothing. They put a script in front of her. She wouldn't even read it. She has a, she has a very wealthy, luckily, family friend that came and brought $250,000

cash and got her out that same day. But in the meantime, her ex-husband came, took her kid. He moved 30 minutes away. So next year, she would drive down three times a day to see her kid, you know, and she looked because of me, and she still never folded. So going back, I get, I get, they take me to a different county jail. And one of my co-defendants was a CEO. Okay, so he's in one cell. He's crying.

I was like, dude, you didn't do anything. But you sold a couple hundred out back. Shut up. Like, stop being a pussy. We're talking through the events, you know. I'm in Salem County, which is federal holding and state that, you know, they have separated. Like paramilitary. So I don't get a phone call.

My attorney sees on TV because on every news station, like, they got them. That's huge news for a small town. 35 co-defendants. I'm on national news and shit. And so he's like, listen, bail's too high. My bail is half a million cash only. He's like, bail's too high. Chill out of a couple days.

Like, Scotty, I want to be out of the day. Like, I don't want to wait a couple days. You know, because this is the first time like. Ever been arrested in jail. Right. And it's still not even like setting in. Like, I don't think I even, it didn't bother. me yet like i wasn't so like he's got work on it so the what they do we go is for a bail reduction

the next two days later and what they do they put me to no contact my co-defendants so no michel no one nobody so now these are these people talk to every day these 30 people were like what do you do so i'm like i ain't no problem you know whatever so 20-something days later i bet that can't get a bail reduction i pay 50 grand for bail bondsman The first thing court comes up a couple weeks later, and the state went after the Fed to get it because powder cocaine in Fed, as you know, it was like a sliding scale.

First Defender, White Boy First Offender 10-year max. Well, with Kingpin. State Kingpin in Jersey is 25 of life. Wait, so the feds weren't, there was no, this is unusual. The Fed's wanted me, but the state wanted me more because they didn't get a whole lot more time out of it. I'm surprised by that. I got charged.

Yeah, no. So the Fed's max first defense is 10 years. State is 25 of life for Kingfin. So how did you not fit into like what some of these other guys were going through? Because I didn't, I didn't, was not cooperating at all. No, but like you see like the guys that got life for cocaine and this and that. So listen, so that's what's sitting on. So at that, then I get charged with leader organized crime.

Okay. And 20 other bullshit charge. So they just, just so they can throw shit, they're going to catch me. So the state gets, I'm like, Scotty, like I don't want. I'd rather do Fed time because then they had to boot camp. I could have been out like three years. And this is still only a couple months in. I'm ready to negotiate.

Like, get me, listen, I did it. No problem, amending it, you know, but I'm also not going to give you. So the first offer comes 80 to 40 from the state. 80 years. 80 years. Hold on. For drugs that people wanted to do and gambling they wanted to do. But the problem was I was giving loans out too.

I had so many people that I didn't corroborate who they were. prison. I mean, one of the prisons, I probably had 30 guards in there when you take loans or put bets in. They had on the phone call because they had all these phone calls and they wanted me tell who it was. I just, I'm not, no. It was so intricate at the web and everything. And I'm not, so. And while I was in, before I got bailed out, I forgot this, I called my daughter's mom, Jeanette, who I was kind of with at that time, but she was my rider died. It wasn't really with her, but I was, we were cool. Listen, I had hushed me all the time. I said, listen, do me a favor. go on my email

because I wanted them to hear the phone call and I gave her a bad password because they had to find bad password my email deleted right that was one of the things back then like because that's how I got all my steroids and things with online

so I was like listen I'm on the phone I was like call put me here's my email address here's my and what I did was I won down one up for the password so I knew her to five times delete she knew not to even do it but they were listening so they were trying to get in

so the cops deleted the prosecutor actually deleted my email so so but you know these are all things i'm thinking in my head like this because i don't want you in my email you know because my steroid guy from arizona you know we're getting 10 20 000 of both towards steroids coming in let's whoever we can stay out of trouble keep mad at trouble they couldn't just get a warrant for the email they could have they got in but they didn't at that time that was a part of it but i didn't want them getting in i wasn't once it's gone it was gone it's like the app iPhones you know so she i just So I'm out now, and I went and bought a Lincoln Navigator because they took all my cars.

So you get out on bail? Yeah, get on bail. All your assets got seized, too. They took my bank counts that I had, you know, 30, 40,000 in bank, nothing major. But I had, like, legitimate reasons because now I had paychecks. I was getting commissioned from all the real estate. And then I was selling your sell on one and two houses a week. By then, you know, it's just insane.

That's when the market was sick. So I had, like, legitimate reasons, but they still didn't care. They took my cars. So when I bought a navigator, like just to like shovel up their ass. Because I still wasn't worried. Because like, listen, my first time. Like, you didn't get any drugs. You got a phone call.

And I think my guys are good. Like, you know, I'm thinking. So it's about a month goes by. And, you know, I don't hear a lot. And all of a sudden I'm at the gas station. And I see feds coming down and state police. I'm like, they're coming over. And so I've walked in a pay phone.

because I'm going to call my dad. I think they're coming to get me again, and I'm scared to have to use my phone, cell phone. I go to the freeze, like, what did I do now? At the gas station. Yeah, like, what can I possibly have done? They arrested me on a fourth degree temporal evidence charge because I told them to delete my email with a $200,000 cash only bill

for a fourth degree charge. This is a month later. A month later. So what they're doing, now they're trying to break me. Yeah. So I get and I have 10,000 in the truck because at that time I just started going to play poker down Langer City just like because I've out of the Borgata when the Borgata started I was running the book down there like that was the best place to take bets because all these people come in they bet what are playing cards I take the bet and game was over he's like one or lost you know super simple so I had cash on me they took the drop they took the cash did all that so then I hire another attorney a local attorney my one guy was out of Philly and because they say, you know, hire local. They get state charged, but I can get them dropped down.

Pop, blah, pop. So, Jamal is one of my co-defendants. He's the other guy that got a kingpin charge. He was the junior black mafia, but we didn't do business together. It just tied in. Just because we play ball together. We, you know, we share together, you know, whatever. So the newspaper comes out that Rosetti's testify.

And who is Rosetti and all this? that he's my right hand dude. He was my number one guy that I was going to give the whole drug business still. Why would you just give him the business? Well, this before I was giving it because he's just there. I didn't want it. Like I said, that's the one, you know, I wanted to just do gambling and real estate. I didn't want anything to do with drugs anymore. Like, listen, I made it. 32, this is yours. So he flips on everyone. Just can't hold water, right? But they put in a newspaper in every newspaper, the local newspaper and the Philadelphia newspaper. Why would he do that? So my attorney calls me. He's like, I don't care what you do, but you better take a priest with you everywhere you go.

Because if something happens to Rosetti, it's on you. I don't care. If he has a car crash, it's going to be your fault and you're going to jail for murder. He's like, you need someone with you at all times. He said, they're trying to get you. So I said, I got it, I got it. At this time, I had part of a little bar in Philadelphia, and I'm in my office. Two big guerrillas walk in.

I was like, man, what now? You know, like, I'm just trying to do something. sitting on my desk and I'm sitting back and they come in like Riley we got to talk and I said all right like you know where I was like I've never seen you before my life but they're black dudes he's like we're you know Jamal Baba I was like okay like Rosetti's testifying so I saw that so you got to do something about it I'm like oh my God like what so I said well let me you know I don't think he's going to I said because I paid 20,000 for his attorney and I think his attorney would let me know

and I found out Rosetti took to 20,000. I gave him, didn't go to the attorney. I told him to went to another attorney to make a deal the first day. Wow. So. And did you realize the gravity or situation at that point? That's when it started getting real. Like that you knew your face that you were going to go to prison?

Well, I knew I was going to prison. And the 80 to 40, I said, I could have trial for that. Like, I'm not, because, I mean, life is 25. 80 or 40, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing it. What are your parents saying to you? They're on my side. They're, listen, my.

my stepdad I talked about he was there every step of the way he's like listen don't do it we can do better anything you need I got you my mother was just crying because you didn't want her kid to go jail what about your sister she she was a parole officer at a time she was a parole married to a cop she's probably told you you're a fucking idiot well she always I mean she said that my whole life so I did you know but you know my whole family they stayed strong they had my back they knew I fucked up listen I told him I had I bought everybody dinner one night and said listen I'm sorry because I was I'm kind of like the caretaker of everybody no matter what when someone will go wrong listen i don't want to hang out but if something's bad call me i'll take care of it now i'm leaving you know so that's kind of like my

personality so mom was you know mom was upset dad was like you're going to jail don't take it in the ass you know what i mean like that kind of shit so um so i was like i'm not doing 80 to 40 we're not doing it and you know we're going back and forth and like you said and i'm back into my life now i'm back in right now there's no drugs involved but um i still got money coming in from real estate because of things I had on contracts. So I'm still making some money. They had me tied up, but it was hard to do anything without them coming at me,

you know, especially now that the feds dropped it to the state, or gave it to the state. So the prosecutor was just a motherfucker. You know how they lie. Like half their shit was lies. So I got in trouble September 2nd. I was at my bar, New Year's Eve. and Jamal walks in.

Comes in, shakes my hand, walks off. Yeah, I mean, no contact, but I didn't initiate the contact, you know? I'm sorry, it was December 20th. It wasn't January 1st, December 20th. 2004 or 5? 2004. Okay. And how old are you, 32, 33?

33. 32. 32 stuff. 32. I just got in trouble three months, four months before that, we got in trouble. He got out. We all got out. He got out on, he had $500,000 bail.

They dropped it to $100. Imagine. So he comes to the bar I shake his hand That's it I'm coming home over the bridge Coming back to Jersey in Philly I get pulled over

And now If I wasn't being a whore I was going to pick up this chick To take her back to my condo In Philly at the time But I'll you know So I'm going to get She lives right over the bridge

I get pulled over Like what's up The drunk driving test You know they give me a whole thing I'm like it's pouring down rain Like I'm not drunk I don't drink All of a sudden

cops they come up. Now they want to search the car. Four hours on the Zaire Road, they're searching the car. They know who you are. They got to fuck with you. So they let me go. I call it rather, I'm not coming. I go home. I go back to Jersey, actually, the state of house in Jersey. Next day, I go down to my parents' beach house or my dad's beach house. And, you know, I'm like,

this is weird. Like, the truck scratched up, the Navarier shirt, the scratched stuff from the dog jumping on. I don't understand. Three weeks, three days. Three days. later they arrest me again for no violation, bail violation and no contact. And you're not getting back out. So I'm like, so now, I mean, over Christmas,

so I'm like, they set me up. They set that dude up there to shake my hand. So he was working with them too. He had to be. Because what else you stop in there? Shake my hand. Hey, we're going to be all right. How do cops get pictured out

if you didn't tell me you're coming there? That where they were just watching you. And they were probably watching me because I went, the judge wanted to keep me, or the prosecutor when we stay in Jersey, the judge said, he can go to, but that's his business. He works in Pennsylvania. It's right there.

You know, we're not going to stop from that. So I get locked back up again now for a third time. You know, just for dumb shit. So then I'm like, I'm over this. I'm talking about you. Let's figure out a deal because he said, trial's going to be five years away. He said, then we have 18,000 or 16,000 hours of phone calls.

We're going to go to every one of them. I'm like, I'm not doing that. And it's going to cost you half a million dollars. And you'd be sitting in jail. while this is happening. No, I'm out. I get back out. Oh, they give you another bond.

After 30 days, they give me back my 50,000, plus I had to pay another $25,000 to get back out. So I went over Christmas. I was in Christmas of my birthday. I get out the end of January on the same, you know, so they reinstate my bail from the $500,000 plus they charge $25,000, whatever. So I'd do it. So I'm out. I was like, listen, let's make you happen. So they come with a couple of offers like, I can't do it.

I'm not going to trial. Listen, I'm not. If it wasn't Kingpin, they knew they had me with a kingpin. And Rosetti's talent. So Rosetti got a second degree drug charge, which is the max 10 years. He spent 60 hours with the cops and did all the total of me and all the people. Your whole operation. And he still got, didn't even get a deal.

Same exact thing that he got charged with. Wow. They can what a fucking idiot, you know. So I call it. So they come back with a 20 with a 5. And what does that mean? So a 20-year sentence with a five-year minimum mandatory. So I'm like, now this is, I'm probably out seven months.

This whole thing happened seven months ago. So like, man, listen, I can do five years to come home, I'm out. I'm doing it. Because, listen, I'm guilty. Guilty as fuck. I didn't shit my whole life. And so I calls, they said they want some money. Listen, let them keep the watches, the jewelry, the money.

Then keep that. Leave me alone. I said, but you got to make sure. Michelle, she gets her charge. I'm not doing unless Michelle gets her charge and dropped because she did nothing wrong. And now they're on this girl so bad and she never says the word.

So me growing up, listen, loyalty means more than anything. You know, she could just said, she could have read the script because my daughter's mom, my girlfriend, they all read the fucking script. They gave them to, my daughter's mom who was, you know, like my right hand, they picked her up one night and said, oh yeah, he had black trash bags

full of cash all over the house. And, you know, just, what? And I said, you never saw that? She's like, I know, but that's what we want me to say. I'm like, okay, so let me get in a couple more years because they told you to say that, you know? Yeah. I said, maybe there are brown grocery bags full of cash

because when I pay people out, like from the gamble, I'll put in brown bags and take it to them. She's like, they didn't want that, you know, so Michelle held firm the whole time. So like, you know, I had her. You know, so I said, I'm not signed a deal unless I see her deal signed first because they wouldn't even give her a deal. Now, her livelihoods on the line because she's a real estate broker.

She gets these charges. She loses, that's all she's done her whole life. So they said, all right, we'll drop the case on Michelle, but you have seven days to make the deal. So it was a 20-year sentence with a five-year step. So I do a middle of five years.

So 13-year six months is the max on a 20-year state sentence. So I had this open back door. So I was like, fuck it. Give me a paper. I'm signing it. not cooperating. He saw the video.

Like, I just sat there. And, you know, the prosecutor was like, since, since high school, Mr. Riley's been selling drugs, which was true. So you got me. I mean, you know. And, but he's someone like, Hamry, I made a deal. Like, I'm taking a 20-year sentence for something I should be, I should have a five-year sentence for just to get everybody clear.

Like, that way, everybody's over. Because they're sending, like, they would send letters to everybody. They listen to phone calls. And, like, you know, I had a lot of, back then I'm running, I'm running through these bitches all, you know, like, it was just bad. Yeah. They all, half of them got boyfriends. Like, this is going to get worse.

The longer out of the weight, the more they're doing on the back end to get it. So you want to get it over with it? I'm still young. My kids are going to be young five years. So, and I didn't really know the whole thing. And that's what, this is awesome what you're doing here because if it teaches people, not to hopefully they stay out of trouble. But I didn't know at that time, like what I should have done prior or should have known.

Like, I should have known that five years is not guaranteed. You know, like, you're not guaranteed to get out in five years. So I get sent. I go to sentencing. And prior, I pay the county. I know guys in there. So I pay him 10,000 to make sure I get to state right away. Because I'm not waiting a year.

Sometimes you sit in county for a year. And that's the worst. County's the worst. The worst, right? And I want my own clothes. So I pay, I leave a duffel bag day before I go in. You self surrendered to prison? Well, after one sentence, yeah.

I walked in right into the court, but I already had everything ready in the county for me. And I knew I was getting out right away. I was getting right to the same. However, before I go to sentencing, before that video, the double doors, they come and say,

listen, do you want to tell on your dad? Tell my dad. So I said, what do you want to say? Like, tell him for what? Well, tell him, we need you to write here, and they had this whole statement that he does something with his trust fund, his attorney trust fund,

and this and that. We'll cut you down to three years. You listen, my dad's, I'm not doing that anyhow. No. So are you sure? I say, yeah, I'm sure. So I walk in, that's when I was like, you know, with the thumbs up. But I could have, you know, listen, I could have just given up there.

But again, my dad didn't do anything to me to put him in there. He's not going to make it. Like, he's, you know, he's 50 years old at the time. So I go, I get to the county and I'm seeing the guys, like, I get my clothes and I had some XNX zipped in the bottom of the shirt. And this is freshly off a 20-year sentence. They just gave you. They just gave me 20-year sentence.

And you're going in here still with the same attitude about Osloid. Oh, yeah. And it'll make it. They put me in the cell. They put me. So Keith, the kid that told on me, he's in the same cell with me. After I just got sentenced. What do you say to him?

I think, my man. And just, Keith, what the fuck are you thinking? But what they did was they wanted me to get them there so that I'm not getting that. They just kept giving me. But prior to going in, I, I took every steroid. I was a monster. I was 312 pounds, probably 16% body fat, neck out of the year. And when I was in the county, like, yo, how many years you got it? You got 15 years? You know, I just looked like I've been there forever. So you thought it was sick that you got this prison

sentence or? Well, I knew what I needed to do. And I also kind of had a fight. You know, so I was like, I'm going to be all right, you know, but I had to get Keith out of there. So when the guys that I paid off the county, they knew he was in there. They heard him got him. He stayed in Protected Cuccy the whole time he was in prison. So he ended up doing a little over a year in PC. Yeah. And told on everybody. He didn't get a better deal. So how much do you think you paid for this whole legal process when you add it all up? I got easy by half a million. That's crazy. And you didn't even go to trial and you paid half a million. Imagine if it went to trial. They break you. That's the thing. And what they take is just that's their game is to take it all back.

They don't like people to make money as well as the government. And going into prison, how are you doing financially. Do you have money tucked aside? I have some money put aside. Not a lot because like said, I just kept spending that, you know, I was out of, I couldn't do a real estate anymore. I'm spending money. I don't know how long we're going to prison for with an open sentence of a 20 year or a five-year step. So I'm kind of enjoying life too because this ain't get killed in prison. You don't know. Yeah. So you're 32. You're jacked. You're jacked up. You're going into prison. How are guys treating you? What's that look like? So the county, I know a lot of the dudes. So they were all, everything was fine.

I get out of county and I still, I don't think it ever even hit me yet, like what's really happening. You know, that could be just a defense mechanism. But it hit me. So from the county, you go to Crave, which is central reception for the state facility. And crafts in Trenton. So they take, so I'm out of the county probably less than a week because I said, I paid to get out of the county. I paid one of the top guys in the county at that time to get out to make sure I got on that list. because they say you're there a year.

It's day for day. It's not even, you don't need a good time. So, but they put me in a van. Everybody's going on the bus. I get in a van. A van. Like, what? They got three cars in front, three cars in back with me.

And like I'm going to break out or I'm some like, some killer. I'm like, what are we doing? We got to take the backwards so nobody gets you out. I'm not trying to run. I don't run. So we pull up the craft and now it's cold out. And they put you in the hallway. when they take your clothes off.

What? Well, this is when it starts getting real. So we're in balls ass naked, in the stairwell, 150 of us. Nuts the ass, everybody. I mean, and she's like, I'm like,

did I really do this? So now it's starting to get like real. So they bring you up and they put you in 30 guys in the shower and they spray you with bug juice. Bug juice. They kill the lights and everything. They just spray you with a fire hose. This is insane. I've never, this is like some fuck.

and out of the country type of shit. They spray you and it's like this juice, this, this, this is back then. It was like this brown liquid. It's not a shower. And they take you out, no towel. They give you to put your paper suit on to kill like lice, whatever you might have before you go, you know, on into the prisons. And craft is where they, they classify you. Well, since I had organized crime charge and I had, they took the kingpin to a first degree.

So I pled, instead of getting rid kingpin, they went to first degree, you know, over eight ounces, whatever. I don't know what it is, but so I had, I couldn't get status. I, I already had to start at medium security right away. You know, that was the minimum security they gave me as medium. So there's, in Comin County, there's three prisons, state prisons. So I'm like, no problem, I'll be home. So they sent me to the furthest one in my county, though, like, which is probably 20 minutes from my house, but I still know a ton of dudes. So I'm like, I'm going to be good here, you know, like, well, I'm there four days, probably,

four days. I get a call three in the morning, knock on the door, come with us, you're leaving. Like, what? The captain says, you know more people who than I do. You're a threat. That's literally what they did to me too. So I'm like, a threat. What do you mean? I'm like, because I just got to the gym, like, you know, I'm so worried because I'm going to be a big, you know, like, I don't want to lose size because, you know, you hear stories. So they say you're going to Southwoods, which is also in, coming in county, in my area. So he pulled a van up, their lieutenant comes out. He's like, he's not allowed here. What do you mean? Well, do you want to tell us who the 31 people that called you from here are? You know, what cops? I was like, oh, no, I don't know.

So now I'm like, so he sent me to Riverfront. The guy at the diesel therapy right now. Yeah, yeah. And you know how those things, they're sick. So I go to Can't Riverfront, which was in Camden at the time, they tore it down now. So that's a medium security, but there's a lot of lifers in there. So I get there, and this, I'm probably, I'm probably a month. now because at craft they just put you I'm so at craft I'm losing a pound a day because they only give you 1,200 calories like you don't eat there's no commissary you're just in you get an hour outside they freeze your dick off because they leave the windows open and you just have a sheet like they just they make it rough in craft so I get the riverfront and again I don't know how to move

I mean I you know how to move from being on the street but you don't know how to move in prison you know so I'm like listen I call on people I need money in my books, you know, and I don't know what to do. So I get there and I'm there probably six weeks and I get a job as a teacher's eight. Teachers aid. Right. Wow. Because I'm the only one, you know, listen, you know, 80% of they can't even read or write in there. You know what I mean? And I'm trying to, you know, I'm helping people. I'm still cool, you know, and I meet some dude. So, but I'm, I'm a, people are attracted to me kind of like in a leadership role almost and just just just not even knowing me, but just seeing how.

So I have all the, I know the guys from Camden, like the blood guys, like they knew me. So I was okay with everybody, kind of, you know. I had a couple of biker gang guys, one of the sergeant arms in there that I knew, that I was selling stairways too. So like I had people that I was okay, you know, so I had people taking care of me right away. So as a riverfront, I meet a guy named Mike, and I'm probably in there six months now. So I'm a teacher's age, though. So I have this teacher, she's cool.

She's just a civilian, you know, and I'm just her right hand, you know, and these guys read first grade English. So in the meantime, I meet this guy, Mike, and he's like, this is what you got to do. He said, you got to be a Jew. A Jew. I said, the Jew. He's like, do you know what they do?

He worked in the kitchen. He said, you don't know, you don't want to eat the food that we give you from the messel. Like, you don't. He said, you got to be a Jew because that way you get the kosher meals and they're sealed. I was like, well, how do I become a Jew, you know? So he's like, you got to fill out. So I fill out this. I fill out this, you know, one of the forms, like, I want to see the rabbi.

So the rabbi calls me, he's like, what are you doing? I said, well, I want to be Jewish. He's like, but you're not. I said, I think my mom is because she's cheap as hell. This is God's honest truth. I said this to her. He's like, that doesn't make her Jewish. I said, you send her a card.

She'll donate. He's like, you're Jewish. So I got the kosher meals. This is exactly how federal prison works, too. we would always sign up. You go to see the rabbi. They say you're Jewish and you get the better meals. You get the better meals.

So that was the first key of everything. And that kind of made you realize how you can move around, how money can influence the prison system. My mother still gets cards for donations every year. You know, the people with money in prison are the ones that do it the best. Oh, well, and see, the problem with Riverfront is there was a lot of sex offenders. And they ran. to prison because they were telling everybody.

So they weren't treating bad, the sex offenders. They weren't treated bad. They were protected by the cops. They were, they didn't want told everybody how the prison was running. So the meantime, I'm learning like, these bloods are idiots. Like, they could run the whole system. Instead they're killing each other, you know? And at that time, I'm like, well, football season starting.

I know a little bit about gambling. Yeah, what became your prison hustle? Football tickets. And how much money were you making running the ticket? And how would people pay you? So it's cigarettes. You know, cigarettes and food. You know, like, you know, at that time,

the buglers were a dollar, Newports were six bucks. And I probably had 500 packs of Newports between different cells. But I was on a radar of a lieutenant, Kirchall. So I was in the KOP line. So I would get, I got Benadryl like to go to sleep.

Like, you know what I mean? Like everybody like, go get Benadryl. Say you got allergies. They'll give it to you at night. You'll go to sleep. I'll say, all right. So I'm in the KOP line getting my Benadry. I drove for the week or whatever, and he comes up behind me and sland me on the ground this

sergeant or lieutenant at the time. He's a big dude. I was like, all right, I let it go, you know, but he was on me. Like, he wanted to know about the football. Well, there's three pods, and I haven't run the football in every pod. They're throwing racquetballs with the tickets over to me, and I got somebody else running. So I would pay, at that time, I'd find the brok his person on the, on the thing, and he'd write real small and do the circle of football, you know, four, five, six, eight, ten picks. listen, you don't win. And when they did win, you got paid right away.

But it was, I mean, so my canteen was huge. You did it for fun. I did it for fun. But, and it's just, listen, it kept me on my toes. So we get kosher meals. Then at that time, I was like a teacher's aide. So she would be started. Now, so I'm real cool with her.

So she'd bring me food. Listen, a real pen meant a lot back then. Instead of those little bend, you know, flexible. so I get like real pens, you know, from her shoe school. So I get, I'm probably there, about a year I get locked up. In the show. Because, so internal affairs comes to me, this guy. So internal affairs had, I had, during my first six months, the cops get coming,

the feds get coming because they wanted me to tell on cops that I dealt with. And they're like, listen, we can help you out. I was like, I got my sentence. You're not cutting my sentence. now we'll guarantee tell us about this guy tell us about this guy I was like listen this shit's over like you know there's nothing here but they would still come get me you know at least once a month they like just talked me they broke me so I don't have they lock me up I was like what I do now you know because I know they didn't get football tickets I you're allowed 10 new ports I only 10 new ports

in my bunky had 10 new ports like I was still care of my you know it's always good and they say you were fucking the teacher. Were you? Well, not where they said I was. Wait, wait. You hooked up with a prison guard. Not a guard. She was a civilian school teacher.

She was still working in the prison. Oh, yeah. How does this happen? How does that go down? It's so weird. Her husband at the time actually was getting loans still from my guys and I knew.

So, you know, I still had connections on the outside and connections. So we were on campus. We weren't far from, everybody I knew still knew a lot of cops and stuff. And so just listen, after a year and a half, she's like the bad boy status. She's like, so you're having sex in prison? And she's risking her relationship, her marriage.

Her marriage, her job. So they say, I said, I didn't. I deny internal affairs. Like, it wasn't me. I don't know what you're talking. We got your DNA on the desk. Right away, I know they're lying because I ain't ever fucked on that desk. They're not swabbing for DNA in the prison.

But so many people tell because they're jealous. a job, you know, like, I think I was getting $2.35 a day instead of 90 cents or whatever. You know, you know, how the different jobs pay different rates. Yeah. So I had a good job. Not any, but it was just, you know, like I could kind of had access to the prison, you know, being in the education department. Somebody told us, so I was in lockup 71 days because I wouldn't cooperate. Under investigation.

It's crazy what they could do to you when you get sweeped in. I think investigation prison's worse than investigation real life. But listen, I look at out three, I got three showers in 71 days. Yeah, it's crazy. So no Bible, no sheets, no bunk. So I was fine for the first, probably like 30 days. Then I'm starting to count the blocks, the dimples in the cinder blocks. Because there's nothing else.

What do you do? Like I tried to read the Bible. It just didn't work. I got to page two. I was like, I can't, listen, I can't read this. I used it as a pillow. That's because I didn't have anything. So the 71st day, I actually sent a letter to my stepdad about 50 days.

Like, I don't know how long long long long. I can do this. Like, I've never thought about suicide. my life because I was always my mentality is tomorrow's another day no matter how bad today is I'll be right which is a great mentality because you know like my mother she so my mother you know she was she worked for her cross but she was a drug counselor she went to college she got her PhD in psychology but she never did you know like my mentality is you know like all this mental it's all it's it's in your head like if you're weak you're weak if you're not you can figure it out so um

Around day 50, I was like, Rick, you know, he's my best friend of me. I was like, I don't know if I can do this. Not three days later, he sends Robin Lord, who was a big hot shot attorney from Trenton area down. She told me, we're going to get you out of here. Because it's not, this is I had three showers in 50 days at that time. It's been insane. So the internal affairs, are you ready to tell you? I said, I don't want you to tell.

I never did it, you know. So 71st morning, you're leaving. I was like, all right, where am I going? You know, like, I'm finally getting out. Like, am I going back? Can't be here. I watched her get walked out by the cops. You know, this is when it first happened.

So they said, you're going to Northern State. I was like, fuck. What's Northern State? The worst prison. One of the worst prisons around. And this is Pennsylvania, New Jersey. New Jersey. It's all New Jersey.

Okay. So, Omar Broadway actually snuck a phone in Northern State. And, like, if you, if you Google Northern State prison, there's a guy in there that made a movie an inmate in Northern State. So I'm like, nobody, listen, the cops didn't want to go to Northern State. I didn't want to go to Northern State. Like, that's the last thing on to here,

because that's the worst, like, you know, mid-state is like, even though it's a bunch of sex offenders, it's just a camp. Yeah. So I got like two year and a half, two years in. I'm like, no, I'm not going to Northern State. So I get on the bus and we stop at Trenton. Okay, so we, I go in Trenton.

No, I'm sorry, Raw way, went to the railway. And where they made the video, the movie, like the Sylvester Sloan movie, they had the track and stuff. And the, it's scary. Like, it's just a scary.

Now, I don't get scared easy, but you just smell death in this place. But it was run by the inmates. So they were, like, jailing for it. Like, it wasn't snitch. It was like real dudes, like, running in jail. Which I appreciate that, you know? So I was there two days, and they're like,

yeah, the bus is going now in Northern State. So it's all, they're killing every day in Northern State. the cops don't want to work there the inmates cry there so I'm like okay so I have a bunch of shit put together like my radios you know

so I know they're going to steal all my stuff that's the phrase you're like the cops take everything you have so my I'm in the back of the van and we're going to I was like I'm going to find the biggest blackest dude I can find and punch it right in the fucking face that's your plan

that's my plan because then they got to get me out of there the biggest blood I can find I'm going to walk up to them drop and do you do that So I get the reception And I have, you know, four or five of the toots, the clear totes, you know, full of shit I get back one back. So there's a, okay, you go to A unit, which was your reception there. I walk in, it's quiet. I'm like, what the fuck?

Joey Massimino, the unbush of the Philly mobs, two New York mobsters are there. Riley, get over here. I was like, fuck, yeah, I hit the ladder. Because they all knew you. They knew me, and they're running the whole, they're running the place. Everybody else is in the cell, they're out. They're eating. So you're good now. I'm good.

So I'm good for about two weeks in a unit, and the feds found out that Mousie and I worked together. They put me in gang unit. So you go to this gang unit in a maximum security person? And let me tell you to them. No, Bueno. Are you asked to join a gang as a white guy? How does that work?

A few times, but, you know, I have the, I never, when I first got the riverfront, I had a choga dude out, my second day there, a Muslim. Big Muslim. Like everybody was scared of and I choked them out in seven seconds. And you earned respect for that? No way to talk. Nobody even stepped wrong after that.

So when I got to Northern State, I was always cool with the head dudes of all the sets. You know, they would come to me, I'd come to them, but I always had something. Like I was always making money. You know, there was always a way. And listen, I put you down. So I hate gangs. I think they're the dumbest thing ever. Because they, you know, they said one blood to kill another blood because the set they're on.

So I'm trying to talk to the head, dudes, listen, let's get together. If all the bloods work together, there's not a cop that can stop you. And you'll run the whole place. They didn't want to do that. You know, like sex, money, murder wants to kill this one. You're stupid. You're trying to operate it like a business. Listen, I'm trying to make life easy.

And they just want to kill each other. So, but never got asked. I saw, I mean, I saw 80% of the guys I ever talked to join either like the Nietas or the, Latin Kings or the Bloods or the Crips. And the Crips and the Bloods were fighting every day. And the Latin Kings were fighting every day. I mean, they were dying. One guy a day was dying.

What was the most violent thing you saw? In Riverfront, I saw a guy get his eye poked out. With a shank. With a pen. With a pen. With a pen. Popped it right out on the steps. Like, fucking bounce race past me.

I saw a guy get raped in the shower. There was probably one of the worst things I ever seen. Like, it was bad. Three dudes just absolutely murdered this dude. in northern states I saw a dude get his head cut in half by a 45 pound weight that's when they took the weights out

he was benching and his dude came up behind him with a 45 pound and just smashed it right across his head I mean just and he just leaped they put us on the ground for 40 minutes and that's when he took the free weights out of the jail

so there was a lot of that I mean I saw a bunch of fights I saw a dude get killed because he had a blue blackberry in his ass and they wanted his phone and they took blackberry that watch they put their hand there and pulled a fucking phone out.

Now, you're a big guy. What would have happened if you went to help someone like the guy in the shower or anything? Are you allowed to get involved in that? I didn't, man. I did a few times with guys that didn't deserve it. I saw a guy, a Muslim kid. I think my biggest problem was probably with the muslim because of just their, like, if one of my bungings was a muslim, he'd always turn my pictures around

and do like weird shit. I'm like, just don't touch my shit. We can get along. Don't touch my shit. I mean. But like I would shower my boots on. Like I took a shower for two years with boots. You showered with your boots. Why? Because that's when they get you. So if somebody's going to get me, so there's 30 dudes in the shower. If they're going to get you, it's in the shower. So I have my boots on. I'm ready. You know, I was always ready just in case. And you had a shank on you too.

All the time. You know, and the thing is I can, I was a big dude. So that helped. If I was a little dude, they would have got me too. Just, you know, it's just, that's the way nature is. However, I always had a phone. So when I got to know, state. Now I know all these kids. The cops are bloods too. They're all from the street. You know, they're all from, you know, Newark. It's in Newark. So I was like, all right, let me figure this out. Yeah. How do you get a cell phone in prison? So I would, my mom and my stepfather, I would come one day. And I have another girl come another day. Okay. She would have 400 bucks every week, wrapped up, twisted real light, wrapped them in saran wrap. She put her mouth, I kiss her,

pulled her mouth, she's just boofed it. Right. As I'm in line to go in there, I get it. I out and give it to the cop. I had a new phone every week in Northern State. Because it kept getting popped or? No. Well, they'd run down once a week and you flush them or whatever or, you know, somebody would get it. But the cops, I mean, every cop was dirty. They ran down one time. The feds ran down Northern State minimum unit and got two and a half pounds of weed out of there. How much, how are you charging a phone? How does that work? Batters. Oh, so that batters. Yeah, so that you'd get, you'd order batters on canteen. And listen, these dudes, and that's the thing, like a lot of the prisoners, if they would put

their shit to the right thing, they could do a lot. Because, I mean, I couldn't figure out how to charge the phone. And they had, they had two batteries together with the wire. They take a wire and charge a phone. I mean, and put it on a pillow and charge, you know, full charge. So they, you know, they did that. You had, you know, the artists, you know, like drawn and shit like that all the time. So there's a lot of talent there. I mean, listen, there's the worst of the worst, but there's also some talent there, you know. And there's nine million ways to make money too. I mean, that's the thing. There's always money there. Yeah. There's money on the street, you know. I saw a lot of guys get messed up because they would, would buy like, you know, heroin or things and not be able to pack.

And I said, you know, and the respect thing is, you know, that makes me laugh is that they all want this respect when you're, you know, when you're having there, excuse me, motherfucker, you aren't like that on the street. Get out of here with that fake shit. You know what I mean? But, you know, it's just, and the same thing like jobs. So the jobs, everybody, they would cry if they wouldn't get on the street to work. You'd never have a job in your life, my man.

Now of a sudden you get mad because it's raining because they don't take you out on the job. Yeah. Like, come on. You know, so Northern State was was rough, but it got easier as soon as you got, you know, moved right way. So I went from gang unit for about a year to the men camp. So that's when you're getting ready to go to Halfway House and hooked up with his white cop. A girl.

No, guy. Okay. Just hooked up me like, we were cool. They called him Johnny USA. He's, you know, he had like the cowboy hat on, you know, like he's just. There's always that one cool prison cop. Yeah, yeah, you know. And he kind of knew, so he ran the Totowa, which was a mental health facility.

He ran that detail. She's like, you're coming to work with me. I was like, all right. So we drove like 20 minutes. We ate good because we ate the same food. They ate every lunch, you know, the whole thing. And I was the A man. So I sat in the front.

If I got somebody who came out, like a couple guys that ran a book out of the Philly, they got sent there doing another guy, Jack. So I got them on the detail. Like, you do things like that. and he was crooked this fuck i mean you know the accomplice he was he was but they all at the end of they all are you know but the phones i would pay 400 bucks a week for a phone there'd be a phone put the next day in my cell so you're living life outside before prison and then you go to prison you figure how to way to survive and live life you have to because you adapt you have to if not you're dead now

how long did you end up doing i did five years in a day so out of this 20 year sentence you did five I had five years of step. So I get, so I get to, I get, I get, I get, I go from many units the halfway house. So the halfway house is stress because you go, you can go on the street, you get a job, but you got to take the bus. And there's so many restrictions. And listen, they like you, now that you smelled a little bit of freedom, you don't want to go back. And it's worse in prison. I think the halfway house is a hundred percent. Oh, a hundred, a hundred percent. And that's where the people are, they're not even cops, your civilians working there. And they think they're cops.

and then you're like and they're talking to any kind of way I'm thinking like but they got power because they could send you back so what do you do you have to follow what's your mindset at that time I want to get home so so I at that time I get out of them

I go to I go to the halfway house you know I think it was 12 months before my sentence me my five years up so I was in that time I didn't go to parole yet and they're like I never did drugs, so I didn't have to do any like the program and, like, I would have

probably killed myself. I had to go through those programs. You know, like the, it's just bad, like those drug treatment things that they do. So I was on the other side and it was, they said there's more stress because you don't want to do anything wrong because you don't know what you can do wrong to get sent back. And then you're done. You got to go through a whole process to get here again. So I knew that in like six weeks you can start doing one day and night you stay home. You know, so I'm like, that's all I want. You know what I mean? Like, let me get home now. So I got to that point and then my parole is come, my parole hearing is coming up.

Well, prior, I got to go to the site. Okay, so listen, I'm good with people. And I know what you want to. Listen, I know what I'm supposed to say. I know what I want to say and what I'm supposed to say. Like, I know the difference. You know, and so there is, she's asking a question and I know what I'm supposed to say. So I tell her.

And I, I fucked up. she actually said, I don't like you. She said, because we took an IQ test. She said, you scored 18 points higher than my IQ. And I work for, and I have a PhD, you could have done anything you wanted. Right. Because she interviewed me when we first went in, too. And she said, you're here now still.

And I said, what are you going to do when you get out? I said, well, you don't want to get back in the real estate? You know, and she's like, for what? I said, you know, someone would make deals. But I fucked up. I should have thought. And then as soon as I said, I was like, damn it, that means I'm not, I still want to make these deals. I'll still sell drugs.

No. Like, that's what she's thinking. So her recommendation means a lot. So I switched this conversation right around. By the end of the conversation, I'm talking to her about real estate, how to make money in it. So I'm like, I think I got her. You know, like, I think I did it. So I go to the gymnasium in this other prison and there's 20 people, you know, waiting to go to talk to pro board.

it's two old white guys and the old smash lady well these dudes are going to look at me like you're staying here because you're a fungus come back you know what I mean like you could have done it you know they you didn't pay your time back and um one of the things was like the prosecutor was overzealous of trying to get made like he wanted to set an example because you know a white guy shouldn't be doing that you know that kind of thing so I know I didn't get to good but I got a good letter from some different politicians and things you know so I'm sitting there and I'm, they're asking me, the other guys are like, you know, what are you going to do? I was like, real estate.

You said, well, you know, do you have that thrilled so you make these deals? I was like, ah, you know, I just like helping people, you know, like I wanted to meet their house. You know, I eventually went through this and, you know, I gave them. So they said, leave. Now, the problem is in the halfway house, if you get a hit, you go back to prison. And like you said, my sentence went from, this is my, I was living four and a half years. I can't do another eight years in prison because my max was 13 years, six months.

No. So I can do eight or nine more years. I'm like, they're going to give me a 24-month-hit. Like, that's, so the first seven guys come out crying because they got hits. I'm like, no shot.

I'm not, I'm not getting it. They come back in and he said, it's your lucky day. I said, don't stay in the halfway else. You're going to go home. It's like, my man.

So I don't tell them about going home because I don't want them doing something dumb. You know, like I said. Yeah, people fuck off when, you know, come up, hit you. Yeah. And, you know, even.

So I don't tell you. anybody I call my mom and tell her listen you know I'm coming home so and so so so so she's excited so now I still have though five months left in a halfway house and I see you get sent back that whole thing's gone or four months well it's there's snowstorm and the bus doesn't come from my job while I was working so but let me run this back the halfway house they take half your paycheck to yeah to pay for the halfway house right well I'm my boss at the time. He took out my child support,

which was, let's say it's $210 and left me a check of $38. So they didn't get any money from me, the halfway house. Yeah, there's ways around. Yeah, you're not getting shit, you know? So there's like four months. I missed the bus because they didn't come

a snowstorm. So I called them. They're not answering. We're coming to get you. I was like, well, another bus was going to a half hour. The last thing you want them is picking you up because they're not taking you back to halfway else or taking you to the jail.

So I get in there and I'm, this, that's probably the most nervous I'd been because I just didn't want to go back so bad that when I, as I'm sitting in the room like, I just, what do you do? I can't buy them off. You know, because they don't, they look at me like I'm an ass on the aisle. I miss the bus, even though it wasn't my fault, but they don't care about that. So they come in there and said, it's your lucky day. We called the bus and they didn't get there.

No shit. Yeah, they didn't realize you weren't. line. Yeah. So, like I said, I went through and in the last few, probably last month, I didn't even want to go home. Like I just want to just, I don't want to do anything. I want to stay here, walk around to the halfway house for, you know, all hours and just, because I don't want anything to happen, you know, at that time. So that's probably when I got anxious, you know, at that time. Before that, it got the like ground hall day. So when I was in prison, it was the same thing every day. Did you genuinely believe that you weren't going to do any crime anymore and you were done?

Or did you have an urge that you want to get back into drugs? Because that was your whole life at that point. No, listen, once they called me, the game was over to me, 100%. So you have the mentality, you have to try it until it's over. Like, you got to take a risk. Yeah. So you get out. What do you get into? Do you work for someone else? Yes. Well, I get right. Listen, I don't stop. So I came home. How old are you 37, about 38? 38? Yep, 38. I come home. You have kids. I get my kids. Yeah, so they're coming around. They're old. But I immediately get back in a real estate. So Michelle bring me. So I don't. So I don't. talk to Michelle while I'm in prison. I do it because she sends me some food packages,

you know, twice year you get food packages. But I didn't talk to her a lot, you know, the co-defendant, but so I call her from the halfway house. It's a funny story. And I was like, um, I wanted, what were the iPod? iPods at that time. Yeah, the iPod and Anna. Yeah. So I was like, I said, I was like, Michelle, I want the iPod. You know, and I just said, I'm in the halfway house and start coming home. I'm going to check with the attorney, make sure I'm allowed to see you, but I want to see you, you know, that kind of thing. So she's like, I, she's like, okay, I used to say, well, if you want an iPod, you're ready to marry a fat chick, right? And she wasn't fat, but she was like, well, yeah, you know, like, end up, I'm 15 years later.

I was still with her. Like, I was with her 15 years as I came home. Yeah. But she, so I got into real estate and back right in the real estate, I went to get my real estate license. I passed a test. Didn't even, I passed the test got three wrong. And you were allowed to have a real estate license? I was supposed to. Okay. But they stopped me. Because of the felony.

Yes. Which has nothing to do with any of the guidelines. I there was nothing I shouldn't I should have had it but I didn't so I said you know let me get into construction did you have money to to start anything or when I came home I started from scratch I started I started I when I came home some guys gave me some money um not a lot but enough to get going um to buy I bought a rental first thing I did um and because I listen I didn't take anybody else with me when I went down it was me I mean I had 35 code defendants that went down because of me so they kicked you back. So the guys that I could have murdered and buried of all of them, you know,

like they could all been in jail forever. I just didn't listen. Do you think your life would be different now, though, if you didn't have that? Because not, there's not some guys that could come home and just have money waiting for them like that. I had a bag. It definitely helped. But again, I have a drive where, listen, until I get, I'm going to start. So, you know, I saw what it could be. And I flipped So I flipped the house when I was in the halfway house with my with Michelle. We bought and sold. I made like 15,000. I just did a quick deal. I paid off my back child support with that. So I didn't keep me in that money. But I had Michelle, which she was very strong, very supportive of me, helped tremendously. I also hooked up with a friend of mine that was there. It was in a real estate

a little bit. He helped me get on my feet. But the whole time I was in prison, I kept my credit right. You know, my accountant still did all my work. My attorney, you know, had some money that would pay what I need to pay. So I still came home with a 740 credit score. And they don't look, they don't ask you for a prison for credit cards and things like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's interesting.

People ask me all the time. My credit's not affected by my criminal history whatsoever. No. Now, I do run into issues where I have to, like, write a letter of what happened. I don't anymore because of, you know, where I am. But when I first got back into it, you know, the smaller banks, like, hold on, they Google me and they see fucking pictures of me all over the internet. But your charges are so stupid.

You didn't hurt anyone. It was drugs, you know. People look at, you know, listen to the older, like, oh, you know, he's a felon. So that's it. When I meet girls, listen, I'm a convictivell and you better be scared. That's what you tell me. That's what you tell me.

It's what I, people like that, though. You put that on a Tinder bio, man. They're flooded towards you. That's what's in, man. They love the bad boys. Yeah, they do. And the thing is, you know, I have, it's still to this day, though I deal with people are against it, you know.

I went out with a, I went out with a, the girl just just not even anything special. I've known her my whole life and I know her father and she I was taking her to we're so good like she she was down here she's a traveling nurse and she wanted to go to like somewhere fill it. I was like I'll take you no problem. So she told her dad that we're going and this is what he says. I had to block her because she got crazy. I started out of that it's always the parents that are the issue rather than the girl. Exactly so I was actually friends with her father. I bought his house when he was getting divorced. He was going to lose it to sheriff's sale and I bought it. That's the house I own. And what happens? And it's like, you know, he was this,

when I was growing up, he was this big, you know, this, he was a doctor. He had to roll waxes. And now he's here and I'm here. So now he's got the, you know, the problem. But it says, she said, uh, where does we see. I can't find it. But I don't feel like going. When it said, My dad, my dad said you're still a drug dealer and be careful. Hold on. I'm making a million dollars a year. I don't need to sell drugs. I mean a million dollars already this year.

Profit. I don't need to sell you. I didn't make a million dollars profit selling drugs with no stress. Yeah. You know? So when I, when I, back to when I came home, my first,

I would say my three years out, I made my first million in real estate, profit. And what I was doing, but like I said, I was always in, So Michelle was a very key to that because she owned a real estate office. She helped me get loans. You know, she, anything I needed, she helped me with.

And you already had some familiarity with it from before prison. Right. So, and I flipped houses before. And what I realized was these contractors are making more than I am. So what I did, hey, listen, I'm the way of contractor. So you're in construction. You're in real estate. So what I went around, I went around and found every job site up and down New Jersey and found the best dudes and put a team together.

So then the construction business went crazy in 2012 and 13. I mean, it was going nuts. I couldn't even buy houses because we were too busy fixing everybody else's. They were flipping houses. But, you know, I made a million, too. Profit. Yeah. So then I was like, at that time, I was still buying rental properties, you know, because

I like the rentals. I think I thought I liked rentals. I really don't like rentals. I do, but I don't. That makes sense. So, like, in 20, came home in 2010. In 2015. I had maybe 25 rentals.

But I want to get flip back to flipping all the time. And that's when kind of like my son was, you know, coming into the business. I fired him because he wanted to go to the beach instead of working. You were 16 in high school. Yeah. So he's like, I'm going to beach with my friends. Okay, listen, I'll never tell you what you can or can't do. Can I go back?

I was like, no, we don't need any more because I hire some else. So Michelle put you on. Michelle helped out tremendously. Michelle is actually a problem. Michelle and I are together. she's one of my best friends. I would do people don't realize it and and I mean some people of your viewers by will but that meant more to me than anything that she didn't tell and she's still there she's a dude you got to keep her around and whatever capacity event here's the thing like

I don't have sex wood or anything like that but I my last relationship I broke up we broke up because of her because of your closeness because yeah because you know I if she called and needed something I got her but some people are insecure in that sense that you have that you know and that's the thing she's like why never matter I said And, you know, my ex is a gorgeous girl. She's gorgeous. Her family is very well off. She's a great girl.

She has a couple of kids, which I didn't ever want to be another girl with kids because mine are all grown now. But I did. But she just couldn't get over that, like, what I did, like, you know, bang all these chicks before. Like, and Michelle, I don't remember Michelle. You can call her right now. I could call Michelle and she would come pick you up if you were broken down.

Now, Michelle had been together in two years. Like we broke up two and a half years ago now. But to this day, she still would do that. and people don't realize that that men for my whole life until I die she'll be okay well there's not that many people like that that you meet and but you know and she she doesn't have that because she's been taken care of her you know parents have money she never had to she understand loyalty to that that that part of loyalty if that makes sense and you don't know maybe you guys get back together down the line nah no once it's done I'm done really yeah so yeah but you still keep her in your

life I do but it's listen not that I owe or any because I don't know anybody's shit but I'll never forget what she did for me. And that meant more of me. Like you couldn't get, I don't care. Somebody said, here's 10 million if you never told them, I wouldn't do it. Do you have any regrets after everything? Like, do you wish you could turn back the clock at all? I really don't.

I would do it again. If I knew I was doing five years from what I did in that time, I don't. I don't want other people to do it, if that makes sense. My regrets now are I've cut people off or lost people that probably are going to be important in my life. but prison kind of gave me a disconnect that is almost like wicked that I can like cut you and be done with you forever. I feel like you're the type of guy that doesn't really talk about feelings and prison and... No, listen, I talk about prison because everyone wants to know, so I'll tell anybody anything you want to hear.

But like, I'm not an emotional dude. Like that, it doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. Like, I'm not a jealous person. So why do you want to come do this? Because this doesn't really seem like your thing to like sit down and talk to someone. No, you know, because I want, I want people to realize that after, you can still do something.

If that, you know, so if we can, if we have five people to say, you know what, there's a dude had a 20 year sentence in five years and he's now making a million dollars a year in real estate and it's not that hard. I don't need a super high degree. This is what we can do and learn that I don't care who comes on this. Anybody says prison was fun full of shit. It's not fun. Yeah.

What are the three biggest takeaways you want someone to leave after listening to this interview with? What do you want them to know? Well, I think one, the most important is that you can make it no matter what. You know, a discipline and dedication. If you want it, you can get it. Nobody can hold you back. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, I was against so many things, you know, when I came home of just being a felon,

being, everybody knew I was a drug deal all around. That I fought so, there were so many challenges that didn't bother me. Because, listen, I did it. Like, you have to eat what you did. You know, so if I sold drugs, I went to prison. I came home, I could have, there's two ways you can go. Even recidivism is 81%. Or you can be now, everybody that talks shit on me, I bought their house.

Right. So anything's possible. You know, I'm wearing a $70,000 watch out of prison. That doesn't, that's more than some people make their whole year. You know, so that's one thing is like, nothing is out of touch if you, if you want it. You know, but you got to grind. like you got to starve and that's the problem people don't want to starve anymore they want immediate gratification like we did when I was selling drugs and they want to say okay listen you can

flip a house you make a hundred grand I want to be able to do it it doesn't work like that yeah I think there's a power and delayed gratification a hundred percent yeah like it makes you appreciate shit and that yeah 100 percent appreciate so I appreciate what I have but I don't care about it anymore I'm at the point now where and that's kind of like my ex-station I we kind of broke up because I sold my house. I made $600,000 selling my house. I was only there a year, but it's 600,000. She was like, well, this could have gone to our house. Well, we can buy another one. It's only a house to me. But that's the other thing that prison did. Prison made me colder too. Like, I don't care about this. I don't care about the cars, the landry. I don't care about any of this. I got a condo

on South Beach. I don't care. And it's not a big deal. You know what I mean? But I think that's where prison, like you get to the point where you can't let that stuff bother you. or you'll be in your head forever. Nothing, I don't let anything affect me anymore. Like, if I have a bad day, tomorrow's another day. What would you say to your teenage self if you could sit across from him now? You're smart enough to do it without selling drugs.

You probably could have figured out something. I definitely could have, but I think that I think that the whole, because I ran a drug game like a business, that it told me so much about real life, that if I walked in and started a company that didn't know, all the bad things that really happened in life,

it wouldn't be the same as now. You got to go through that shit. Because, you know, like I said, I told my ex, but she was the one that she's never had to go through that. She thought she did because she married some dude that knocked her up when, you know, she had a bad marriage. That's not, you still have people taking care of you.

I run, if I got to, if there's a problem, I got run to me. My mom runs to me, my dad, like I take care of everybody. That's real life experience.

Right. And prison gives you that too. If you don't know that struggle when you're sitting there, you're like, fuck, you know, I eat this thing at M&Ms or not. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, so it's definitely that, you know, jail's no fun, prison's no fun. Yeah. At the end of the day.

But it can give you the motivation, discipline to succeed in life. Yeah. So back to that, I was on parole eight years. They wouldn't let me off parole easy. I'm making a million dollars a year legally. And the guy that was running the pro office wouldn't let me off parole early. I wouldn't let you off. Now murderers?

No, that is. Guys that murder charges are getting off for, off of parole early. He wouldn't get me off. So no problem. So I had to ask, so I was traveling on Vegas. You know, I'm traveling over. I bought an Airbnb in Vegas. And so, you know, a parole is like, you got to show a paycheck every two weeks. Okay, which one do you want? Yeah, I just made 20,000 flimbing this house. You want to see that one? Because it's more than you make this whole year. So just leave me alone. Like, I don't, listen, I don't Jaywalk now. Like, but he wouldn't let me off. So one of his, I owned a property and one of his officers went to see this girl and she parked on my grass.

I got a car towed. Let's take the car. But you're still the same asshole. I'm still the asshole. The prosecutor bought a house. I bought the house next door to a federal tenants. Oh, bad. Then the house that I just sold it.

I sold for a million. He lived right across the street from that. I sold a $600,000 deal. I only bought the house because he lived right there. The kid that told on me and just, the kid that told me Rosetti in 2000. 2015, I bought three houses right next on. Well, you know what they say? Success is the best revenge.

Listen, that's what it is. You see Flip. I name my company flipping keys. That's great. Devin, thanks for coming on the show today, man. Thanks for coming out to New Jersey. It's been a great conversation today. I do it again.

And, you know, I really hope people get inspired by your life story. You have a crazy story, man. It's fun. Are you actually writing a book? Yeah, yep. Awesome. Yeah, that'll be out. We should be done it.

I'm dedicated to my assistant. Michelle or Alexis, this girl Alexis. Oh, it's got to go to Michelle, but Listen, Alexis there. She's a hustles, young girl. She actually helped me out loud before it all went bad. Well, hopefully no more FBI investigation or anything. I'm sure there is, but I'm not doing any wrongs that they're wasting their time and their money.

They can pick on me. Awesome, Ben. Thanks, man.