Locked In with Ian Bick - MOBSTER Reveals How He Made MILLIONS Stealing Diamonds | Larry Lawton

Episode Date: May 14, 2023

Larry Lawton is an American ex-convict, author, paralegal, motivational speaker, and social media star. Lawton gained notoriety for committing a string of jewelry store robberies along the Atlantic Seaboard prior to his arrest in 1996. He spent 12 years in federal prison - spending time in some of the toughest Federal Penitentiaries - and once released, began a career as a motivational speaker, life coach, and author.Connect with Larry Lawton:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzmkeda2XiYpETOP5MjotrQ Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com/Subscribe to our membership program on YouTube to get early access to interviews, see behind the scenes photos & more:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvVklIft6DMelVW18M0oBw/joinPowered by Q29 Productions, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting of cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt. Keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk by real California farm family. On this week's episode of Lockton with Ian Bick, I interview Larry Lawton to hear his story about how he went from stealing millions of diamonds to becoming the most notorious jewel thief in America to ending up becoming one of the biggest YouTube stars relating to prison content. Make sure you guys subscribe on our YouTube channel for exclusive membership to get access to perks such as seeing interviews before they drop, behind the scene photos, and interacting with me on a personal level. Thank you guys for tuning in to Lockton with Ian Bick.

Larry Lawton, the Jewel Thief, one of YouTube's biggest prison stars. Welcome to Lockton. You just had like a crazy travel ride with me in the car. You thought I was going to hurt you or some crazy shit. You know, you wouldn't remember this, but this is Appalachian. It was back a mob thing back in the day in the 50s when all the mobsters got together in upstate New York. And they ended up getting caught by local police. and they all scattered into the woods.

And it's very well known if anybody looked at and it's where they went. I said, shit, where are we? He's gonna fucking whack me up here. I'm in the middle of fucking nowhere. And he has got me. I can't do anything. He's driving.

I mean, oh, I put myself in a bad position. I got no peace, no weapon. Fuck. Well, you're not the first guest. You're not the first guest that said that, but you made it here safely and really looking forward to this interview. I mean, our viewership has been asking for you.

I've been asking for you. you. I'm glad we finally got it together. What's your childhood like growing up? What's young Larry Lawton like? You know, before I even start that, I have to say this studio is great. Good for you guys. And the guys that run it are really good guys. Beautiful place. So that and thank you for having me. Thank you, Larry. And okay, you want to jump into my life. Is that what we're doing? Yeah, I want to start at the beginning, man. Let's see what makes young Larry tick. I was a crazy kid. I was getting in trouble young. I started bookman. I started bookman. at 12 years old.

I grew up in a very mob-associated neighborhood in the Bronx, New York, and my neighbor was in the mob. My mom actually was a nurse and actually took care of a mobster who burned in a car fucking mom or whatever. And we, the neighborhood was full of teachers, doctors, and mobsters and construction workers. My dad was a construction worker. Well, I was always drawn towards easy way of doing things.

smart. I was a pretty smart kid. I had a tough time I was abused by a priest when I was young and that's why I'm not religious. Let's put it that way. I don't blame that on anything in life. People go on. Things move on. You know, people are asshole. So you just got to remember people are people. But I started bookmaking at 12 years old and I was making about $100 to $125 a week. This is in 1973, 72. So it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money back then. And this is cash money.

And I'm like a kid, you know. Then, of course, I don't just stop there. When I started getting a little older, what do I do? I rob fucking cars for money. We would get taking cars to a chop shop for 500 bucks. You know, I had no fear. My brother was a year and a half older than me. The older kids, you know, I hung out with them, but they would pick on you.

I was a little guy. I'm not big like I am now. I went in a military at 132 pounds at 17 years old. So I was a small guy. But I was fearless. And I mean, I stabbed my brother with scissors. I broke his, I split his head open with a two by four. I went after other guys with knives.

I mean, I was that kind of guy. I had no fear. And let's just do it. I had too many concussions. And maybe that's part of my problem, which is okay. Listen, we all grow up a different way. Whatever neighborhood shapes you, people shape you, your environment shapes you. But I learned a couple of things very, that I hold dear to my heart today.

I'm very loyal. If I tell you I'm going to be here, Ian, I'm going to be here. I'm not, nothing was, you know, I mean, of course, if something happened with death or something, but I can call, I can set things straight. If I told you I'm going to be here, I'm going to be. If I told you I'm ready at 10 in the morning, I'm ready. at 10 in the morning. Actually, I think I was waiting for one minute, Larry, while you were shooting your vlog. No, you actually weren't. We were waiting for you in a while. You were waiting for me.

Okay. I had a text to you, though, to come out. No, you did. In fact, I didn't see my text because we were doing a vlog. It was funny because I asked Nick, my sister, I said, Nick, what kind of car is he? Oh, it's the red car. Because there was a, there was another blue car out there. And I said, that's not him. No, no. So I saw you come up. So we did see you come. Now, do you think that you were influenced by like your dad and your dad's business with the contracting and the mob ties a little bit? Oh, absolutely. My dad used to take me from bars and my dad built the World Trade Center. He was the one of the head guys on the World Trade Center doing what they call tin knocking or sheet metal work. Matter of fact, when 9-11 happened, that hit him hard because he literally, I was on the top floor of the

World Trade Center in 1970 and the construction work is tied a rope around me and let, let me, let My brother and I crawl to the edge because it was built from 1968 to 1972. Four years, they built the two biggest buildings in the world at the time. And my dad used to take me around and he used to pay off mobsters. And I didn't know what it was, but we'd go to all these bars and these pool halls. And all these old guys, hey, kid, how you doing? You know, you got the cigar in the mouth and the hat on their head. And I'm playing pinball with it.

Listen to your father. He's a good man. Listen to your father. And I'm like, I'm like in. I'm a little kid. I remember I was 10 years old at that time. Yeah. And nine, 10 years old.

And I used to travel my dad all over the city to do that. And of course it had some kind of effect on me. But, you know, again, I hate to put any kind of blame or any, oh, I became this because of this. No, but it does have influence on someone. Well, everything has influence. Yeah. The school you went to.

Yeah. You know, if you were, if you went to a Catholic school like I did, That had an influence. Bad one as it was. It had an influence. Now, do you guys have money? Are you guys well off? No, no, no.

We didn't have money. My family, you know, when my dad wasn't working and he was laid off, we had five kids, a dog. We lived in a little bungalow house in the Bronx. Matter of fact, when they bought the house that had two bedrooms, my dad built two bedrooms in the attic. You know, that's what they did back then in these older houses in the Bronx. But it was a close-knit community.

but no there were people with money and then there were people were no money and I remember one time we went to a bowling alley and I know people who call my I have a buddy who ended up

being very big in the bowling business and he says don't ever call in an alley call it a bowling center fuck it's a bowling alley to me but anyway so we're in the bowling alley and my buddy comes out and he's got the bowling shoes on you know the red and the black

or red and whatever gold the shoes and he go, what do you got? You got the shoes on? He goes, yeah, they're better than my shoes. So, I mean, we had people who had no money and we had people with money, but nobody cared. It wasn't like you looked at anybody. Oh, you're rich and in him or you're poorer than him. It wasn't like that.

It was the neighborhood you lived in. And this is in the 60s and 70s now. Now the situation with like the priest and the church, how do you think that affected your childhood? Did you ever, like, dwell on it or did you think that propelled you into doing like maybe more crime or kind of like bucking out against the, world. Wow, Ian, that's a great question. I don't get that much. You know, psychologists always said that that had a big impact on you. They often said that I started

really acting out at that time, meaning maybe proving you're a man, proving whatever you think, you're a man, you're a fucking boy, a fucking little pee and a little fucking kid. What the fuck you're a kid? You don't know what's going on. I'm sure that had psychologists, my writer, in my book, Gangster, Dempter Peter, said, Larry, it's quite obvious what happened to you. I mean, but again, I hate to put an excuse on why I did what I did. And I won't. I won't. I will never do that. Do you ever like sit back and reflect though, like on those early ages, like to think like what makes you tick now? Like you were just saying about like the loyalty aspect and being a man on your word, word. Like for me, I sit back and reflect a lot about my past who I've

met what's what's happened what I've been through and that's kind of like shape me as the person so it's not necessarily like putting blame or using that as an excuse because like we own our actions and our decisions but we use it as like a tool in a way to move forward you know reflecting back is something I haven't done what all I've done I've done a lot in life I mean I've lived a pretty full life I often say if I drop dead tomorrow don't feel bad for Larry have a drink for him uh because I did a lot I just, I don't feel like I have time. And I've done so much with TV and businesses and, you know, my bad business, everything else, which I'm sure we're going to get into. The, it's hard to reflect. But if I actually, you know, I remember being in the hole in prison. And I was in the hole for three years. And I was 11 straight months in the hole. And I remember thinking when I was going to kill myself, you know, you look back at your life. And I had a rope around my neck in prison. piece of sheet and I was that close after so many months you just start fucking going crazy I don't care who you are anybody who tells you isolation doesn't kill people it kills people every day

oh absolutely and because we're social animals especially me I'm a social animal as we know I like the bullshit talk and hang out so it's it's rough so I'm sure it has shaped me and I am sure reflection wise I almost don't want to listen live life I don't know. You know, who's supposed to reflect on you when you're gone? People reflect on you and say, hey, Larry did the right thing. Larry was already good. Yes, trust me. A lot of people ask me about regrets, and I don't have any. And I know that sounds like harsh, but I don't believe it's harsh. Everything that happened to us makes us who we are today. And regrets, no. Would I change things? Absolutely. Bill Gates said it. He would change things. And I had a rich man in the world at the time.

And they said, would you change things? Of course he would. You'd take away the mistakes or whatever they were. But I don't look at him. I try to make amends. I do the right thing by people. I feel like I try. I help a lot of people. I think that's what my ultimate thing is. I love to help people because when you help people, and that's how I have the highest success rate of any program in the country for kids. I don't if you knew that. And I'm used by the federal government. I'm used by police agencies. I'm using court systems. And often people ask me, they say, why do you get through? Why do you get through the young people? How do they, why are they listening? Because when they make a mistake, they now have lived the situation like you that not many people have went through. And you have an

opportunity now to explain your story, what you do, and now open the eyes of people and say, what's right, what's wrong, or in your view, what's right or, or the crap you went through, because I don't care who you are. There's not one person I ever met that went to prison. So, oh, that was great. I had a great time. Nobody does. And you have now an opportunity to educate others.

And if you miss that opportunity to educate somebody, that's kind of, you know, I look at my legacy. I don't want to miss that opportunity. And it doesn't have enough to do with my crime. has to do with YouTube, has to do with the production TV. I've done so much for so many years. If I can help somebody,

it helps you when you help someone because you feel good. You know, you want to help. Yeah. I hope you do. If you don't, then that's when you're fucking disconnected.

And I think that's like the message of this podcast because it's an inspirational podcast. Like we'll bring people on and it's not just talking. I mean, yes, it's talking about like the crazy shit that happens with the crime and the prison. But the bigger thing is, is the message at the end of it.

And I think what gives us like a unique perspective is that as an interviewer, I'm, I came from going to prison. So I understand on a certain level of like the struggles that the guest has gone through and what's happened to them and like how I can relate to them on that level. And I think that separates us apart from other areas where they've never had that experience before. Now, getting back to your story, high school, are you doing drugs at all, alcohol, anything like that?

First of all, you were 100% right and keep it up. I listened to your podcast. There's some really good stuff. You know, I was never into drugs. I was into gambling and we would play craps in the street, literally cards, all that kind of stuff. I drank, you know, stuff like that. But nothing in such excess that it was like I was an alcoholic or... So no addiction.

I don't have an addiction issue. I've done every drug in a book. You name them. I've done them. And I never got... I did oxycodone. 180 milligrams for 10 years. I needed them.

You saw my back. And literally I survived. And I've been through medical and pain clinics and doctors. You're never going to get high. You will die before you get high. You have so much pain receptors in your body lighten off that that's how that works. I've learned a lot because I went to Jackson Memorial Pain Clinic and understand it. So I don't listen, I'm a social person.

I like to whether, and I'm a believer in all drugs. If you ever listen to my podcast, I had two doctors on my podcast. I think all drugs should be legal. And they go, what do you mean even fentanyl? Even fentanyl. Once you start picking and choosing what people can do, then you're taking that choice away from it. If you want to hurt yourself and kill yourself,

you can go to Home Depot and go get, you know, poison for, you know, seeds or grass poison or whatever the hell it is and kill yourself. Or you want to go sniff glue if these kids are sniffing paint or whatever the hell they're doing. If you want to do something, you can do it. Yeah. But I don't, I just think that we're taken away. And it's being proven. As I speak today, Sweden and a lot of other countries are legalizing drugs.

And they're finding out that they have a lower crime rate, lower recidivism rate. And they put more money and resources into rehabilitation and education and it's working. Yeah. Now, by the time you're 17, you joined the military, why do you decide to do that? You know, I had to get away from the craziness I was in. and I was a troublemaker in school, trouble maker everywhere, so I said, I got to go. It's time to go, and I went to military.

I joined the United States Coast Guard. And this is instead of college? Yeah, well, I didn't even graduate high school. Oh, you didn't graduate. At that point, I did not. Now I got a college degree, of course, but no, I did not graduate college, high school. I left at the end of the 11th grade,

kind of like a hat to the school owner put me in another school and stuff like that because I was a troublemaker. And I said, fuck this. And I went and I went down and I joined the service. I joined the Coast Guard. I could have joined anyone. I had a very, very high ASVAP score, they call it. So when I went into Coast Guard, I love the water.

I lived near the Throgsneck Bridge. I say water. I lived near the East River where it was a sewer coming out with shit. But, you know, that was our beautiful country club. So it was funny. And because it was a jetty who used to swim at a beach. And literally on the other side of the jetty was a sewer. but that's just what we did.

It was East River. And at the end of the East River, the Throggsnik Bridge, Whitestone Throggsnik Bridge. So I went in the service and I loved it. I really loved it. But I still had that criminal in me. I mean, I was in the Coast Guard.

And once I got to the position of power where I was buying items from the Navy, Navy what they call supply places, I was sending it back to the bar, sending it back to people I know, you know, to keep favor with people inside. It was just in me.

I mean, I don't know if that can, if that's a thing. You had like a, like a passion to do something. Like you were like an entrepreneur, but you didn't know how to like put that into business. You was like putting it into crime. You were like an entrepreneurial criminal. Never heard it put that way, but you were 100% right. I mean, like the younger me, that's how I was. Like I had all this ambition, but it was like unguided.

And I think that's what got me into like shady shit because it was just like all this passion to like make this nightclub work. but I never like it was the mindset was do whatever it takes so I'm gambling I you know I'm running all this money through a bank account not doing accounting I never looked at the right steps so it's kind of similar to like you in that sense which is like an interesting perspective now how long are you in the military for I was in a military almost eight years when I got hurt I got hurt at about six years in do you go overseas at all oh yeah I was in Alaska well I mean went all the way in the Pacific I was over in Micronesia. I went to all the later in Australia, New Zealand. I was on a 370-foot ship out of Hawaii

and we used to do our patrols in Alaska, which was this fisheries, 200-mile fisheries conservation zone. So we were bored in Russian ships and this is during the Cold War. So this is some kind of crazy shit. This was when there was actually an incident in 1987 or 78 where a Seaman Kederkis actually jumped from a Russian ship to a Coast Guard ship. The Coast Guard let the Russians on the ship to get them back and they ended up killing that guy. So there was a big thing in the Coast Guard at that time where we did briefings and stuff.

If anybody wants to defect to the United States, that you have to bring them back to the ship and then bring them back to shore and then the State Department would handle it. You know, it's funny, you know, years later, we used to go on board fishing boats out in the Bering Sea, life-threatening stuff.

And we would find ships a million dollars. Now this is a lot of money back in the 80s, early 80s. And we would find these ships a million dollars and, you know, for violating a 200-mile fisheries conservation act. I find out years later, I mean, the last 10 years, five years, that all of it was bullshit. I mean, that they would take these fines that we were given in the state department was like, oh, you know,

if you guys host coffee, hour we're going to wipe that fine out you know what the like it meant nothing it was no deterrent it was just a it was a tool for the state department i mean you can get into wise and house and i'm sure they'll justify whatever they can do it's just you know that's the way life was and we didn't know we did what we were supposed to do and i had hurt in the baring sea i fell on a ship crushed my spine as you've seen in their pictures we can put them up if you'd like i'll send you and I'm a lucky man to be alive right now and somewhat healthy. And that ruined your military career right then.

Oh, I was retired. I am a retired veteran right now. Now, do you think if that never happened? You wouldn't, I mean, you wouldn't be the person you are now because that would have propelled you into doing what comes next. Like, you could have maybe finished your career with the military. Oh, I would have. Yeah.

There's no question I would have been stated. I loved it. I mean, at that point, I had 60 guys working for you. for me. I was running the ship, like the deck department, they call it, the small boats. I was a small boat captain. What did they call you in the military? I'm curious. Boats. Boats. B-O-A-T. Matter of fact, I can show it? Oh, man. Can I show it? Yeah, of course. We had JD shirtless on this podcast. There's a needle through my nipple. And it's called boats. And that's because I was a boat to me. Okay. And so my name was boats. And listen, I was still the way I am. I was a

hothead if you want to call it that but you had like some discipline to a sense like you were very disciplined you know like workout wise or i'm still disciplined in whatever i do i'm the kind of guy that if i put my mind to something you know i'll go through a wall to do it and it's just that's and that's even how i started my youtube career that's a funny story but we'll get into that if you want later well that's what makes you stand out that's what makes individuals like that stand out because not everyone has that work ethic or that grind the grind you have it there are some some guys we know who have it and and I respect it. I respect it. I mean, and it doesn't have to be just grind with YouTube. It could be a grind with the studio. It could be a grind with Nick and whatever

the grind is when you stick to something when it's not so glorified, not so fun and you want to keep learning. Because you won't quit. That's the grind. You won't quit. You don't give a shit. You won't quit. I love people like that. Yeah. I mean, Joe Rogan said that best too. He likes the guys that like fall down in life and then dedicate themselves to something like with me it's like this podcast this like brand and then it's also like the gym i'm very like you know go to the gym in the morning get my workout in get my run in i'm boxing at night and like that's me like that's what i'm doing right now and nothing's going to get in like the way of that oh something's going to get in a way it's called health oh how well you get older so you keep doing it you're doing good i remember doing

that how old are you when your career with the military over. Wow. I was hurt and I was at 25 I was out. What year is? I went in at 17 so 25 a little bit. This is 1985 when I really was technically out. I was in but technically I was waiting for my military discharge from medical retirement because I was actually giving blood every three weeks at Bethes the naval hospital in Washington, D.C. because they were going to do surgery back then. And then I refused that. I started getting along just good enough that I can make it. And I'm not a guy that loves surgeries or any of it.

I have enough now. But back then I didn't. And what's your mindset at this time? Like you just lost something that was so important to you. You know, listen, I went right back into what I knew best, which was crying. I started bartending and bouncing and doing stuff for a card game for the mom. I had my connections, people who knew. me, knew me from as a kid, he was a hustle, used to steal cars, he used to make money.

He's loyal. He's from the neighborhood, that kind of stuff. This is the Italian mob. Yeah. And so they all knew who you were. I mean, you were a tough kid. You didn't cry, you know. The kid's fighting in the street.

That kid's a kid. You don't give a shit. And so that, you know, you can get a job. So here I am, I'm out. I'm starting to feel better. Even though I'm hurt, I'm feeling better. Getting in shape, starting to do things I want to do. And I've become very, very.

good shape. And I was one of those of mindsets that you can overcome anything. And you can to a degree until something else hits you. And obviously later in life it hit me. But I ended up getting in great shape. Then I started bookmaking and bartending. First bartending, then bookmark. I actually worked for a Jewish guy named Mack in Queens, New York. And I was actually on Union Turnpike. I remember it well. It was a piano lounge. And this guy named Mack, they used to say when he died, the economy went down. He was what they call a layoff guy. All the action of from bookmakers. See how bookmaking works is they think it's like, oh, you're just a bookmaking and you make money. No. How bookmaking works is if you take $100,000 on one team and $100,000 on the other team,

you automatically make the Vig. You make 10%. So you make 10 grand. Well, what happens if you have $150,000 on the Jets and they're playing the Giants and only, you're playing the Giants? You know, You have $50,000 on the giant. If you just don't do anything, you become a gambler. You better hope the Jets win. Yeah. So what you do is you lay off the difference to make the two dames even so you're a bookie.

Well, who would they go to a guy named Mack? Mac was who I worked for. And I remember him to this day, and he taught me the business very well. I used to go get him an English muffin with cream cheese and jelly at the luncheonette right next door every day. and he'd sit down. I mean, he was a great guy, man. And he used to take the action.

I remember him taking the action from a guy with John Gotti's crew. And I remember he just said, if they, if they lose, I want this money. I'm not going to anybody but you, the guy who came to him. You ain't going to tell John Gotti

you want your money. You know what I mean? That ain't happening. Yeah. And he was notorious for that, you know, not paying. Yeah. And what are you going to do?

And you're just surrounded by like all these different individuals. You're learning, you're watching. Oh. kind of seeing what's going on. I'm a sponge, Ian. I'm a sponge now with YouTube or anything I do now. But I'm a sponge.

I mean, I'm taking in how it works, how they speak to people who they got. Now, I was taking bets now at $500 or $1,000 or $1,000. That's small. Mac is taking $50,000, $80,000. And I'm talking in the 80s now. This is 85. So, you know, 86, you know, that's. And I'm guessing you get bored with this and you need to bring it to a

level? No, no, no, no. I don't get bored at all. I mean, I was put there with the mob that was learning and I loved it. Now, you start doing it. Now, I was also a muscle in a card game, meaning like I was the bouncer for a card game. Yeah, of the card game. And, you know, guys are coming in with big money and stuff of that nature. And you got to, you better know your people skills. Because if you grab the wrong guy, you might just die, you know, but you have to understand what's going on around you. And I learned that. And then we were, you know, boosting stuff. We were robbing stuff. You know, we used to rob trucks at a Kennedy airport.

We used to rob, man, we'd get a lick. Someone would come up. Hey, I remember there was a Crazy Eddies. There was a store back in the day. Crazy Eddies. It was an electronic store. Well, we knew manager there owes money. So, you know, lets us in the back, tells us when the code is not on, everything else.

We'd robbing that. So I become more of a robber, muscle kind of guy, collect. But shoot drug dealers didn't like me as well. Do you guys have weapons? Like, are you carrying a gun, a knife? What do you do? Yeah, I did. I mean, I was always with a gun.

I mean, at one point when I got to my base, they used to have two or three guns. I mean, I was just a little bit of off. You know, I hate to see. You were walking around with three guns. Oh, I had one on my leg and I sometimes had two. And I did. Now you're licensed to carry them because you were in the military?

Well, no, now I'm out of the military. I officially retired in 86. So I ended up fully retired. I'm bouncing. Am I, no, am I not at all? So then in 1987, I get married in Brooklyn, New York, big mob wedding, the whole works. I mean, I got married in 18th Avenue and 86th Street in a place called the Oriental Manor. And my first, in my wedding, I got married at a place called Regina Pachey's church.

They called it the last mile because it was a long, long mile, you know, like down the aisle. FBI was probably outside of cameras. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Seeing the who's who. Yeah, it really was. And I'm a nobody, but there were a lot of people there because both families were connected.

Yeah. So there was a lot of people there. Then, you know, I decided to start a new life, you know, get away from this stuff. You know, things happen in New York. You don't want to hang on. You're bad people and bad. Let's start a new life. So I go to Florida.

You moved to Florida. I moved to Florida. In Florida, I mean, I opened a pizzeria called Lennie's Pizzerie. You opened a pizza. area. Yeah. Oh, I had a pizza. You were making pizzas? I was so good at making a pizza. I could throw a pie as high as the ceiling. So then I burned the place down You know that part Oh you burn the place down

I burned the whole plaza down I didn't burn just the police What with the pizza of it? No no no no for insurance job Oh you did that on purpose Yeah of course So what do you bring gasoline in there And light the whole? No no no what happened was

Now I'm in a New York I have the pizzeria it's going And I know connections So guys come see me So guys start bringing diamonds to me Just loose diamonds Just kind of like oh wow Lookin diamond

Can you get rid of this Larry Matter of fact the guy had a cell phone place too back then they had cell phone stores you know like that was a big deal oh beeper it was a beeper store you guys and and that was a beeper imporiums and and whatever that was a beeper you know you age your guys people anyway there were beepers and i knew the guy named bob and he would come to me with stuff and and i'm starting to move hot items and i'm doing good who the fuck gives the shit about pizza i said fuck this pizza fucking business shit i got to get rid of this fucking thing how do i get rid of this pizza business. I'm gonna burn it down. You couldn't have just sold it. You know,

I didn't think of it because I didn't give a fuck about it. It wasn't giving the shit about how much money I made in it. Yeah. I just want to get rid of it. I said, fuck, I'll burn the plaza down. You know what's crazy, Larry, is that you want to be legit during this time frame, but a part of you keeps reeling yourself back into like the criminal aspect. Like you go to the military to be legit, but you want to keep doing things on the side. You get out. You're doing stuff. You want to break away from that. Go into a pizza shop. And now, the crime life's drawing you back in you know i'm not no excuse i like the crime life so what happened i have a pizzeria so i said how do i get rid of this pizzeria fuck it let me torture i mean i'll

torture for insurance money well i was in a plaza funny story i ended up getting caught but not caught that i didn't get my insurance money but i'll tell you what happened so i'm sitting there and uh i said okay i got to get rid of this pizzeria So I have a, my wife and I in the pizza area, she has no idea what's going on. And there's another couple that we know a swinger. So we go, I'm a swinger. So anyway, we go, I'm going to say that.

Keep her out of everything. And we go to their house at night. And what I did was, I didn't know this how good the fire marshals are. I lit the ceiling with a lighter just to see if the asbestos would light. It doesn't light. But there's a charred mark. I forget about it. It's a week early.

So during the night of the pizzeria fire, I said, okay, I'm going to light the garbage can on fire, close the door, it's a Sunday, close the door, and then it'll go, and then I'll get the beeper alert because the alarm went to the beeper, and I'll just go there, and, you know, it'll come back, oh, my God, my pizzeries on fire, and, you know, I'll get my insurance company and be out of business. So I light the garbage pail on fire. It's going. I got leave the place. I lock it, get in a car, and I go to the friend's house to go into the chakusia. I'm waiting for this people to go off. It never goes off.

What the fuck? The peeper's not going off. I'm thinking something's wrong. I'm going to go by the place on the way home. Now it's 11 o'clock, and this is about 8. I go by and it's like nothing happened. So I tell my wife, I got to stop at the pizzeria for a second. I owe in, I open the door, and along the wall, it's charred, the fire.

went out it didn't even go on it the fire it's charred along the wall I get mad I take a lighter and I like the pizza boxes that pizza boxes I like the pizza boxes that get out leave go home sure enough 10 minutes later you know your alarm goes off you call your plays you know you better get there your pizzeria on fire I raced down it's not I wasn't far a mile or so mile and a half from the pizzeria I get there oh my god oh my god my pizzeria little do I know I and the whole plazas on fire. The rest of the shops. Oh, there was a barbecue place.

There was a travel agency. There was a beverage store. There was a like a nail shop. They're all fucking going. There's no sprinkler system or anything. Nah, there was not anything. And there's no cameras to track it or anything. No cameras or no nothing.

So what happened? Now, they didn't really burn to the ground. They really got in and dated with smoke because the ceilings. You know, there was no in-between trust. It was just, it went through the whole entire building. Matter of fact, they all liked me because they all made insurance money. I didn't. Well, what happened was I ended up getting insurance adjuster and all that.

And they put the players at fire out. Fire marshals know that it's a, it's an arson. Now, it's not just an accident or fire. Boy, I learned that in prison. I know how to burn a building down now from some dudes I knew I was in the joint way. Wait, how did they know it was just an arson? There was three origins of a fire. There was the one I tried on the ceiling, the one along the wall, and the original one.

They know that. So did you get arrested for that? No. They interviewed me. They interviewed my ex-wife, who was a solid woman, you know, knows nothing. You were at the swingers party. Yeah, no, at a party. Yeah, right.

That was a way, you know, she had, nobody knows anything. They knew, I mean, they knew it somebody because they asked who had the code to get in and out and the cook had the code and somebody else that a clean and person had the code. you had the code, your wife had the code, who else had the code. Because, you know, I should have left the door open or something, not put the code on. There's a lot of things I should have did. Or a break in, like throw a brick through the window or something. Right, right, right. But the arm would have went off.

But it's a different time period back then too. Totally. You couldn't, someone couldn't get away with that now. I was in prison with a guy that tried to torch up his office space. Got 10 years. It was just too easy to connect like the dots. Oh, no, I could do it now. Oh, I don't want to hear about it.

I don't want to tell anybody online about how to do it. I know how to do it now. I'll tell you to, I can tell your audience right now how to burn something down, you'll never know. So this. Because I was with some of the biggest arson guys in the world. Hey, prison, all the guys I talked to, they say it's like the book of connections in prison.

Oh, isn't that the truth? That's where you learn. I think one of the biggest stories that, like I remember is that I would be sitting with guys. One guy was in prison for 25 years for a bank robbery. When in with a gun, this and that got like 50 grand. Then there's another guy talking to him who got like $300,000 and was doing a five-year sentence because all he did was pass a note and say, give me the money.

And they're obligated to give the money at that. They said, this is a robbery. The second you add a gun into it or say you have a gun, it changes the ball game and you get that enhancement. So this guy was able to walk in, walk out, and this guy's just studying it. He's taking notes. He's like, this is what I'm going to do when I get out. It's fucking crazy.

Well, talk about crazy. I was with some guys who did the armor cars and shit. So those guys are really the big boys. I mean, forget banks. Why rob a bank when you can rob the armor car? It's got all the money. It's all the money. in my career, I went to the bigger place. I went to diamonds.

Where, as you know, I was on TV and talking about they did $136 million in diamonds in a briefcase. $136 million in anything without having a hand truck and an 18 wheeler to take it away. Yeah. Only with Diamond. And they had it in the birth care. And he got away with it. And to this day, they got away with it. So let's get into the diamond aspect.

How do you go from this, you know, failed attempt at an arson, one of the worst criminals in that regard to now? Well, I wasn't, listen, I was an opportunist criminal. I mean, I was also going back and forth to Brooklyn, you know, to help with business. Yeah. Meaning if they needed somebody to get roughed up and this is the mob. Yeah. Okay. If they needed somebody to get roughed up or do something, I'd be back in New York.

So when are you exposed to your first heist? Oh, no, no. Well, my first jewelry, robber. I mean, robberies have been involved in. Yeah. with actions. You just love the insurance angle at this point. Well, you know, I'm thinking I love it. I didn't get paid. Remember, I got paid on that robbery. Yeah, but you're thinking there's opportunity there. You know, insurance companies are the biggest scumbags in the world. I'm sorry.

Everybody's listening to an insurance business. No, I get it. Those guys are real criminals. So you go to New York to do this. No, I don't go to New York. The robberies in Florida. It's in Florida. Right. So I end up doing this robbery. I get the information on a robbery. I knew who's going to be there. I knew everything. I had to make it stage like a real robbery. But I knew where the stuff was going to be. I knew who was going to be in there or how many people were in the store. All the works I needed to know that you would normally do to the case the store. So I robbed the store. My first robbery, I make 150K in my pocket. I said, wait a minute. But they paid you was a set payment. You knew you were going to know, no, no, depending on if I did it right and everything else,

of course. And I got that money. Oh, my God. this is this I got to do this shit and I ended up becoming the biggest jewel robber in the United States is still known to this day as the biggest jewel robber that had ever been in the United States now how old are you when that happens that first that first robbery were 28 now how did you know like to case a store what to look for first one I didn't okay so it was trial buyer well the first one was a setup so I knew there was only going to be one person in there I knew where the stuff was I knew where the the the he I mean, money was in. In other words, every jewelry store has a box of diamonds. It's about, looks like a card box. You ever see a bunch of baseball cards? There's 700-some players in the major leagues, and it comes in a box, top box about that big.

And that's what a jeweler's box will look like, but that's all envelopes of diamonds. So I knew where that was. I knew how many people would be in the store. I knew nobody was coming. I knew that the mailman wasn't coming. I knew when he come. because this was all the information given to me.

Now, since this information was given to me, I end up understanding I need that information for every robbery. See, after the first robbery and I make all this money, I go, wait a minute, this could be real good. You know what I mean? This is my thing. Now, I remember going to New York and say, I'm going to rob. They go, yeah, go, you, yeah, go ahead.

You don't rob in New York. I wasn't allowed to rob in New York City. Why is that because of the mob? Because everybody's protected there somewhere or the other. If I robbed the wrong store, you know, start a war. So where are you robbing? Like what's your main targets? All over the East Coast.

Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Connecticut. I got one right in Bridgeport, I think it was. And these are jewelry stores. Jewelry stores. But they're always a wholesaler as well. I wouldn't just rob a jeweler. You got to go where the money is. So if they're a wholesale, that means they're wholesale to other jewelers,

as well as having a storefront themselves. Now walk me through like the day of a robbery Like what what's it like Going from beginning to the end Well okay once you pick your store out You know what store you're gonna rob Okay I'm gonna rob I don't know This jewelry store in the corner

I case them out for three weeks I know when the mailman's coming I know when any deliveries are coming I know who works there I know what car's there in I know what their neighbor's cars are Like if it was always in a plaza Like a

with either an anchor store like a windixie or a public or a big grocery store because you want to do that because in those stores you could sit and case him and you look normal like you're waiting for your wife that's you know she's shopping and you're waiting for her because if it's a long jewelry store and you're just sitting across the street in a parking lot someone's what the fuck's he looking at all day i mean you can't do that and i had to know when people come and go and and you know so all that is done the day of the robbery is when I got myself ready. Now, I had a routine. Now, my routine was I would dress, you know, nicely, whether it could be a shirt, you know, nice shirt, a college shirt, but always a long sleeve because I had a tattoo, not as many as they do now, but I had a tattoo.

And what I would do was I would have a, it's sometimes a sports jacket, sometimes not. I have a pillowcase tucked under there. That's for getting the jewels. I would have, rubber gloves. I would have flex cuffs, which are just, you know, the wire ties, but put together. So you choose and tie somebody up. And I had always multiple. I had those in jacket pockets or suit or the pant pockets and everything else. I had my gun in the back. Now, I had a BB gun. I didn't use a real gun. So the gun is here. And I already, already went in this place already. The guy knows who I am. He thinks, oh, I'm a builder in the area and I'm looking to get a wife. So when he walked, I walk, hey, Mike, he'd say like that, I had a couple of aliases.

Hey, Mike, how you doing? Hey, I just come back on. They asked you something about that diamond. I even left other stuff that I had in the jewelry to get cleaned. So I think, oh, wow, this guy's real legit. You know, who's going to leave their jewelry here to come back and get it? You know what I mean? And I would do it.

I would get to know him like he thought he knew who he was. And of course, I know when there's going to be people in there or not. So when I come in for the day of the robbery, I might come in with my partner. or not. Sometimes I take it down myself or he would come in. And I tell him the night before, yeah, I think I'm going to bring him apart and he wants to get something for his girl. Oh, bring him in anytime. So when you walk in

with somebody else, it's oh, okay, he's a big sale. Now, when I walked into that jewelry store, I know so much already that I know that the counters like these desks might have a buzzer on him. I also know that the jeweler

might have a key fob. It's like a car key fob that if he hits that fob, the alarm goes off. So if his hands are in his pocket, I'm sure enough not going to, you know, announce a robbery because he's going to hit the button and then do what you're going to do. No way. What I would do was I would wait for him to be coming. He would be between maybe two cabinets or whatever and his hands are out. You know, I see everything's calm.

I knew where the other person was. Now, if my partner's in there and they had another person at the county, he's already talking to her at a counter, and he's watching her. And I would look and I would make a move, jump to the counter. Get out, get out, get out. Get out, get out. Freak this guy out, man. Fuck, he's on his back.

I got him cuffed up. His face is fucking down. Don't move. I'll fucking blow your fucking head off. I'll close your eyes, motherfucker. And he's down on the floor. He's fucking there. Don't fucking open those eyes.

I'll fucking kill you. He fucking shut him so hard. I'd see him squeeze his eyes. Now, I proceed to take over the whole fucking store. I would, now my partner already got that other person down. They're all flex cuffed, everybody's done. Now, most of these stores had buzzers to go into them. So you had a buzz to get in.

I like that because they're letting Larry in because Larry's a good guy. Larry's a customer. Now Larry fucking flipped to be fucking, you know, you know, I go from, you know, a nice guy to, you know, Darth Vader or some shit. And now anybody else wants to come in, they have to hit the buzzer to get in, you know, knock. And I would let them in. I would walk up to the door, hit the buzzer because you know where to buzzer. Open up.

Come on in. Oh, get over here. One time I had 10 people tied up. Oh, wow. In a fucking store. Now, how are you doing this with no mask on? None. But I would alter my face.

I had hair at the time. I would sometimes wear glasses. I'd never wore glasses at the time. So I would wear glasses and it would be clear. Or I would always have, I used to always have a goatee mustache or something. So now I'm clean shaven. I would sometimes put a band-aid somewhere

and people would get distracted. Did you know at all the robberies? First of all, if anybody knows anything, eyewitness description is the most unreliable description that is, period. And it is true for a fact. Yeah. They had me at 6'2, 160 pounds with red hair. They had me at 5 foot 4 at 300 pounds.

I mean, they went from one extreme to the other. And I used to laugh and get in the newspaper. The description of the man was 6 foot 4 to, I'm 5 foot 9. I'm not grown or shrunk since, you know? There's no cameras in these jewelry stores? When they had cameras, I used to take them. Oh, you would take the, okay.

Yeah, see, back then, they didn't have the cameras where they would be off. So you couldn't do this now, like what you're... You can, but there's a way to do it. No, we don't want to know about them. Again, I actually went over this one time with somebody. Yeah. But listen, when there's a will, there's a way.

Of course. Obviously. But back then, I used to take the whole machine. Matter of fact, there's a video of me robbing a cigar store on my site. And I explain at the end what that person can do to prevent a robbery

just from a professional like me. And it's really good. He goes, oh, shit, I didn't know that. Oh, shit, I didn't know that. Now, as this professional jewel thief, do you have, like, principles? Like, what are your rules? Absolutely.

What are your rules? Yeah, my rules, I was never going to hurt somebody in a robbery. That was off the table. I wasn't going to shoot somebody. I mean, I threaten them and make it. But I'm not going to blow it. I had one guy, and I think it was Marietta, Georgia.

And I had him and his wife were in the store. I said, I'm going to kill her. He goes, go ahead. What do you say to the guy? And it was like, what the fuck? I mean, like, you know, then I ended up grabbing him by the hair or something. And I said, I'll just, I'll just fucking cut one of your fingers off. You know, whatever I came up with that work.

But it was like, he didn't give a shit about his fucking wife. I wonder what they talked about after that robbery. He was probably cheating. Yeah. I think it was more than that. But anyway, yeah. So, I mean, most people are going to give it up. But my goal, we weren't going to hurt anybody in a robbery.

That was off the table. So that was your number one rule? Yeah, because, you know, I was a professional. I wasn't there to hurt somebody. I did my share of hurt in other ways. And I look at this and I justify my whole life like this. I never hurt somebody. who wasn't in my business.

Like if you were a drug dealer, or if you were in the mob business, you robbed from us, or you did something like that guy. You were a bookmaker trying to, you know, take away from the boss. I did some bad things to people. I laid guys arms on curbs and snapped them like a piece of wood

and the bone coming out of the skin. I did some bad things to people. I'm not proud of, but I never heard somebody who wasn't in my business or our business. Like you kept innocent bystand. Yeah, and you know, listen, the jewelry guy, People say, oh, that's bullshit Larry.

They were a victim. A truck driver was a victim, but he wasn't hurt. It wasn't a physical victim. It was, yeah, don't get me wrong. I do understand as the aspect of fear and trauma you put into somebody. And I just hope they get over it because in life, there's going to a lot's going to happen. You know, let fucking something like that ruin you for the rest of life. It's not me that's just going to ruin it.

It's the next guy that's going to ruin it. Do you, on that topic? Or somebody else is going to ruin it. Do you think, like, the fear that they faced was the same fear? you may have faced when you ended up in like federal penitentiaries later on was it like a similar I don't know you know I don't know what people go through I know the way I grew up everybody has fear in them it's how you handle your fear whatever that fear is uh you know but fear is a good thing it fucking heightens the nerves it gets you ready to go get your defense mechanisms ready

I like when I'm edgy You know I feel sharper I feel I'm ready to go I'm ready to do things You know I think people Shy away from a lot of that And they live a very mundane life Now mind you

I'm not telling how people should live You couldn't do it You lived on the edge And whatever you did Because that's what hit you Excited you That's what made you I hate to say

It gave you a fucking heart on I mean that's what it was though because like when I got to prison like I was still doing shit that like gave me like that that rush you know like that like I didn't I didn't need money in prison like I had my dad and stuff in prison to support me but like I did shit that got me into trouble and put me in dangerous environments because it was that rush like the same rush of like sneaking people past the fire marshal at the nightclub and then like at prison like trying to smuggle in phones or doing anything like that you know that sounds so mundane to me sneaking people past the fire marshal at the night

I'm fucking taking people and throwing them down and tying up 10 fucking people and breaking guys on the car and you're telling them how to sneak people past the fireman. That's what I did. But you know what, Ian, it's right. Whatever it takes for you to get that, I call it a high.

You know, people ask me about drugs and I've done every drug in the book, but there's no better high I ever had in my life than winning in a jewelry robbery. Like, you know, I used to want to be a fly on the wall. I've done the best drugs in the world. The best I've ever done I talk about was in Atlanta

when I did four hits of acid and floated out of the prison. Literally fucking floated. Who does acid in a prison cell, but me. Yeah. A lot of us did. But my point is, I literally, Ian, it's that adrenaline rush of robberies that did it for me. I've, it was a rush.

When I was in that car, knowing I was away, I wanted to be a fly on that wall so bad. You know, that's how fire people get caught, you know, arsonists. Yeah. They're sitting there watching their fire. I wasn't going to do that. One robbery I committed, I did read,

I used to read the papers afterwards. To see what people were saying. Yeah. One robbery, I robbed a place in Sarasota, and these two old people came in. Now, I would never hurt people I told you. So these two old people, I remember the robbery very well, it was next to a dive shop, like, like, you know, scuba dive shop. And it was always a somewhat busy place because I like that. That's what was good.

So I'm in the store and these two old people walk in, right? They buzz. I buzz them in and I open up my jacket and they go, oh, and they were going to get on it. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, come with me. Just come with me. I put them in a chair I faced a wall didn't tie them up I never gagged anyone either Ian because I was always worried if someone gagged and you suffocated they could die

so I put these people I said face the wall didn't tie them up didn't do anything I said I'll be out of here don't worry everybody's good I'm just getting these diamonds he owes me this or some bullshit I said

whatever it is and the lady I said now you can't move until I leave for five minutes. And they go, okay, okay. In fact, the guy worked for me at the time, Jimmy, who says, died. He fucked up. He goes back, comes back.

He screws up. We're going in. I look like fucking the Keystone, fucking Robert. I got so mad at him. And I came back in the store. I said, I'm just checking on you. I'm just checking on you. Oh, no, we're not going to move. Well, the next day, and I get away, the next day in the newspaper, it's, they interviewed her and he go, oh, he was a nice man.

I got about $800,000 out of the robbery. But he was a nice man, you know. I never want to hurt people. And I don't. I really have, I am very, very protective of young kids and elderly. As you know, I take care of my mother who's 90 or kids. If it's adults, I don't give a fuck what you do. You know, and I say that because.

Listen, I've been in more fights than I can ever count. Won a lot, lost some. Anybody who says they never lost a fighter? You know what I tell them? You didn't fight the right guy because everybody loses a fight when you fight is a real fighter. So I sit and talk to people and I said to people is, you know, if you rob me, you might run into me. You might get a fight. If you beat me, great, you know, but you're going to know you.

something. That's why I don't like, pick on me. Don't pick on an old lady. Don't pick on a kid, you know, or even weak people. I don't like when people pick on weak people. Yeah. You know, that's, I'm not a bully. I never was a bully. I want to help people. I always did. I think that's the underlying where I consider myself a decent guy. Wrong or right? And I want to continue that. You know, I never want that not to happen. You know, I see that in you. Thanks, Larry. I do. I do. You know, I got to know you driving to my death spot over here. I'm not so bad, huh?

Yeah. I'm on the way to murder. I'm on the way to get whacked and you know, usually you know about the guy. Now, did you ever have any like botched robberies where like you guys are almost caught or it goes wrong? No, I had a robbery where I stopped it. I was the kind of guy who was such a professional that if, if it wasn't right, I would call it off. I didn't care how much time it took me or whatever. I was going to rob 12 million out of the Bahia Mall Hotel,

not the Bihamara Fountain Blue Hotel in Miami. It was a $12 million robbery. I was going to kidnap the guy and put dynamite on him and keep his family hostage. I was planned to the tea. In fact, it was so planned we was in the bushes. And I called it off because a dog was going crazy. And I thought maybe that dog spotted something or the owner might have spotted something

and saw something. And then it would have been a whole different animal. and I called it off. And it goes back. That was a really good move because looking back, once you did that, that's kidnapping. There's no statute of limitations.

But that's what a professional does. He analyzes that. So you were a professional on that level? There's no question. I was a professional. Now, what about your accomplices? Like,

were there ever situations where maybe they didn't share your same principles? No, no, no, I ran the shit. So you were always in charge. There was no going to go.

Let me tell you how it was. You know, we'd party. You couldn't even drink or party or anything when I'm doing a robbery. I mean, I had my rule. One time we were done with a robbery

successful in New York and these guys brought out some drugs. I tried it. I took the pistol out of my belt. I put a pistol of their head and I said, if you both come around here again with this, I'll kill you both.

And they knew I was for real. And they knew, when I said something, I meant it, and I wouldn't say it, I didn't mean it. It was a drug. I think it was crack at the time

and I didn't, something didn't touch me, right? whatever you want to call. And I've done heroin. I've done every drug from PCP. And I'm not one of these, oh, you do heroin. You're going to be an addict for life. That's such bullshit.

We have, we have, let me tell you how fucked up America has gotten the drug business. First of all, the drug war with Ronald Reagan was the biggest mistake the country ever made. Second, the United States has been lying to people. First of all, you know what the food pyramid is? No. Okay. There's a thing called the food pyramid. It's where you're supposed to eat this much grain.

Oh, you know, we saw that in school, yeah. Did you know that that's supposed to be upside down? And the heart association knew about that since the 1970s? What, reversed? Reversed. And the heart association knew about it. Secondly, did you know LSD? You know what LSD is?

You know what mushrooms are. Do you know they're being used to this day right now as one of the best PTSD remedies in the world? Really? Right now it's being used in the University of Missouri. Mississippi and a bunch of stuff. And it's legal in some states, first of all, mushrooms.

And they're used for PTSD. They gave, and your audience can go look it up. They gave a study. They gave two military units, LSD, and they gave them the same mission. And the one on LSD

did it twice as fast with half the mistakes is the one not on it. The reason the military didn't use, it was they couldn't control the people afterwards. Which is why you said no drugs to your crew. Right. I mean, I knew I needed to have full control of everything I did. But drugs, listen, drugs are a choice obviously, but everybody, you know, we've been lied to so

much by so much. We are all adults and everybody has to pick and choose what they believe is right and wrong and do their due diligence and research and stuff because I do that. You could tell me the greatest thing and I'm going to research it. But if anybody ever comes to me and says, oh, I don't like drugs and then they drink, then you get that wrong because alcohol is the worst drug in the world. And that's been proven time and time again. It causes more damage.

It causes more medical issues than anything. You ever see a guy smoke pot and get violent? No. Guy drinks, he gets violent. So, I mean, can you imagine a couple of guys? guy smoking pot wanting to fight? They're going to fight what? They're going to fight over to remote control with the popcorn or for the TV?

You're going to fight over the snacks. Exactly. I mean, they're fighting. Now, with the heists, say you take like 500,000, right? Just say, put that figure out. How does that get divided up between you and the crew? Okay. Depending on the job, how much time they did and stuff like that.

First of all, about 10% of all my robbers always went right up to the top. To the mob? To their mob, my boss. Boom. They didn't even think about it. Which isn't that much, 10%. Oh, I guess there's no risk on their part. Yeah, you know, take 300,000, you get 30,000.

Okay. Easy money. Easy money. Not a fucking thing. But here's what people don't understand. As a mob associate, I needed the mob. Because if I didn't have the mob, the other families, I was associated with the Gambino crime family.

If I wasn't associated with them, another family would take me hostage and trust me, you'd get it. I don't know. I don't know how to say this without being not. I'm not proud of it, but if you read my book, Gangster Redemption,

I tortured a man in it. And I often tell people, I love people who tell me, Larry, oh, I'll never give it up. Trust me, if I want something out of you, Ian, you will fucking give it to me. If I get you in the position, I want you to be in.

And I will get you in that position, you know, whether it's with a gun to get you there or whatever. I tie you in a chair Take your pants down your knees Your shirt and you're naked And this happened It's in the book

And I want something And I take an iron You're gonna give you give your mother up Yeah I don't give a shit who it is You're gonna give them up It's just I tell people you got me You got me

You get it I'm not you know But just I'm like I say it But don't let me get out Because if I can't get you You know Then I win

But I love those Oh, I'll never give it up. I'll never say, listen, with the right pressure, right stuff, people are going to say. So that 10% goes to the mob. How's the other 90? Well, it goes mostly 50% me.

Okay. And then I delve out the, depending on how many people I had with me. Sometimes I had one or two people with me. Sometimes the job was set up by somebody I have to pay off, you know, or tipped off by somebody I had to pay off. The guys were making, 50, 80, 100 grand a pop

the guys are working for me. Are you ever worried these guys could get pinched on an unrelated job and flip on you? No. You just, you had that trust enough. Not an unrelated job because they wouldn't dare do it unrelated to the job. They could get pinched on something else. Drugs, stupidity, or whatever.

But they were just solid guys. Listen to this day, nobody ever, nobody ever snitch on me. I was caught by the major K-square from Quantico, Virginia. The best fucking people on the planet. And I love when people think, oh, the FBI's stupid. The FBI is the smartest organization you'll ever fucking run against.

And they got all the money in the world. Unlimited. And all the time in the world. So how do you be? And you know that. How do you get on the FBI's radar then? Well, little, I did not know this at the time. Who got me on the FBI's radar is the insurance companies.

From these jewelry stores. Yeah. You know, I robbed so much. I robbed between 15. and 18 million probably more. Dollars worth you made in your career. Yeah, probably more. Okay.

But so the insurance companies are like who the fuck is this guy? What the fuck? I had the same MO. These are going on. Did you have like a signature? I'm curious about that. You left. Well, yeah.

I mean, no, not a signature to that left, but I did rob a clock. A clock. Every time? Yeah. Oh, bad. I don't know what it was. It was like funny, stupid shit. Like, it could be not a grandfather.

the clock, of course, something big, but it'll be a clock. I actually have one in my office now. Do you think that was your downfall? No, no, not at all. So the FBI never caught up by the clock? No. That's funny. No, what it was is the same M.O. And little did I know, Ian, that they were actually flooding an area with agents after I did a job with the same MO. And they were confiscating all the cameras from the Wawa stores, the 7-Elevens. They actually had me on

a video buying a cup of coffee at a Wawa store in Savannah, Georgia. Before the thing up. Right, before the robbery. So they placed me at the facility, at the place and everything. So they knew their shit.

But did they have a name to the face? No. Okay. That's why once they got it. Now, were your prints in the system, though? With the military? In my system, yes. Because of the military?

Yes, but I never left Plint. Oh, you never left Prince. No, and I was arrested since then, too. I mean, I was arrested during that. I was right. My rap, she's pretty bad. I actually have- But you never served like real prison time until- Not that much time. Just in-and-outs. Yeah, ins and out. Bullshit. Now, they actually had a palm print of me from this type of jumping at a counter, but I didn't know, again, until they caught me. They couldn't do anything. But when you're canvassing these places, you're not wearing gloves when you're going in to talk to the guy. Never touched the thing. You never. You never. You never. You never. You never. You never. You're very cautious. Very cautious. That's crazy. In fact, that was so good. One place I didn't know, I put crazy glue on your fingerprints. On my fingertips. And that worked.

Oh, yeah, because you're filling in all the gaps. Oh, wow. You know, with this and you do that. So when's clear. It's weird, though, too. So they find you on this camera. What happens next? How does that escalate?

They don't find me in a camera. What do you mean? Well, like they watch you. They see, they have a face now. They know who you are. No, you never got me on camera. No, like at the Wawa getting the coffee. Oh, no, that's only after the fact.

Okay. Oh, that was after the- When I was arrested. See, how I was arrested was I did a robbery of Fairless Hills, Pennsylvania. You probably know where it is, Pennsylvania. I know, but it's near here. It's not too far.

It's outside of Philly. It's Pennsylvania. And so I do this robbery, and the guy, unbeknownst to us, there was a robbery of the air-condition unit on the top of the bill. building three weeks before.

I don't know this. Well, somebody heard the commotion in the store and went up to the store. And Ian, when they went up to the store, they cup their hand like this to look in. You know, now I know we're made. And I said, go, go, go. So we run. The fucking guy gets out of cuffs. Now, I have guns.

I already took six guns of his and put them in my bag. Bam, a shot flies by my head. The window shafts. Holy fuck we're running out the store what saved my life or saved me for ever life soon we never shot back or anything so I had a BB gun remember yeah so anyway I jump in the car and my partner and my brother he jumps in the car and the passenger seat the the the jewelry's in the back seat normally put in the trunk it's in the back seat now when I pulled up to this jewelry store. I'm facing the jewel store. So the guy runs out of the jewelry store,

levels the gun right at my fucking head. Shoots it. I duck. He shoots it. It goes through the windshield, dead center. Goes through my, grazes my head. Blood come triple down. And it goes in my brother's back into his arm. Oh shit. I'm hit. I'm hit. I get away. We had the, again, get a way is perfect. I mean, very planned, new and we're getting on the

turnpike. We got to get to New Jersey. Now I've got to get back to Brooklyn. I have a rent-the-car from Florida so they don't have the registration on the windshields or any like New York has or any of that shit. Yeah. But anyway, there's a bullet hole dead fucking in the middle of the window. My brother's

on the, on the passenger, so I'm hit, I'm hit. I said, I'll drop you off the hospital. No, no. Get back to the I look in the mirror and I got a trickle of blood coming down my head and I go like this it's just fucking you know

a graze wound I'm all right fucking you know fucking blood now I got to go to the first toll I got a fucking bullet hole right in the middle of the windshield what do you do and there's no easy pass back then either

no easy pass right so what do you do I pull up behind a 18 wheeler the 18 wheeler pulls through I followed the 18 wheeler and go past the gate you know the window

now the guy you can see he was oblivious and on the radio this is how close I swear to my children you hear be on the lookout for a robbery

of a late model and they just stripped in the car guy didn't pay attention one bit so I knew he didn't you know there's not a question he didn't know and I gave him the money

I had the exact change ready because that made it's all planned yeah and I go and I got on the turpite and I'm fucking, I get to New York, I get to Brooklyn. Once I'm in Brooklyn, I feel, because I'm in my home.

Above Brooklyn, we have two apartments, so we bring my brother up there. We patched them up. What are we going to do? I'm cleaned up. We send the car to Brooklyn Auto Glass to get the fucking windshield fixed. It's got a million dollars to jewel or half a ride.

So you got the jewelry, too. Yeah, but not as much. So maybe it was a, I don't know, three quarters of a million. No, no, no, no, it wasn't even that. maybe a quarter million dollars and shit in in in in the trunk because we had to leave early because we were running Brooklyn all the glasses this is gangster territory man he'll give me shit they don't look at any fix the wheel show that's the end of the deal my brother we fix up we end up

call I call a couple friends of mine in Florida we're gonna now this is pre 9-11 so you can get on a plane with money and a fain phony name don't mean shit go up to the counter John Smith bl blam pay the thing you get on a plane you go Yeah. Nobody gave a shit. So we go in there and we send my brother back to Florida and I call a few guys to get the bullet taken out of him. So we can't call, you know, police or anything, a hospital. So my friend sets up a veterinarian to take a fucking bullet out of my brother. This is a fucking seat out of a movie, Larry.

Oh, it totally is. We don't do that. My mother, who's a nurse, ends up taking care of my brother. Yeah. And we tell my mother, hey, Ma, Davy's on his way home. He has a bullet in him and you got to take care of him. But you can't go to the hospital because you know I got to wreck it. You know, I had a wreck it. And you can't, you know, I don't want to go to jail.

We're playing with guns in the bar. My mother is the sweetest, to this day is the sweetest most. I don't know, I won't say naive, but woman who just, you know, is like not, you know what I mean? He doesn't want to know shit, maybe. Yeah. And she takes care of my brother, but she goes, no, we're leaving the bullet in there. To this day, my brother has a bullet in his arm. Oh, wow.

To this day, it's in here. Did she know what you guys were involved with it? Not at that time. She had no idea. No, no, no, no. She knew it was pretty crazy, you know. I knew about investing, but I really didn't know how to go about it. Meet Corey, a Walthfront client.

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And my dad used to hide money and shit for me and said, and I said, what do you think? I go, call mommy. My mother walks in. She's all this jewelry. She goes, oh, my God. Ooh, this is nice. How hard was it to fence the jewelry, too? Well, see, that's where my real connection came in.

So you had like a guy that you would bring it to and you would. Most people get caught with a fence. Okay. I had, I could get rid of it. Matter of fact, when I was going to do a $12 million job, I called the guys that said, listen, I got something big. Once I mentioned the store name, it's called H. Stern Jewelers. I said, they go, they knew it.

I go, it's about $12 million. They go, got you. They go, my end would have been about $4 million, maybe $5 million, depending on what it's taken exactly. They go, all right, we'll give you $2 million up front, million a million, and we'll work it out. I said, if I did that robbery, the one I told you about I didn't do, I would have to leave the country for sure.

And I knew that. just because the heat would have been so heavy, so much. You know, kidnapping, a bomb. I mean, it would have been, it would have been a big one. Yeah. Not that they all weren't big, but it would have been real big. I mean, I had that one so down pat that I had Maltov cocktail set up that we were going to throw, and we tested them and threw them to an area so the cops would all be diverted to a certain area.

Yeah, so you had all your ducks in a row. So your brother gets patched up and stuff. How does this lead to, like, you guys getting caught? Well, we don't know it at the time the FBI floods the area. Now, the newspaper articles on that one. Oh, what is a man shooting out? You know, they were mad at the owner for shooting because he could have killed somebody else.

You know what I mean? I mean, yeah. Anyway, and but the FBI came in. They confiscate, not only cameras, they interviewed a jeweler that I cased his store beforehand. And he goes, Oh, there was a nice man in here. And I was going to sell him a ring

and I got a license plate number. Which is the rental. Which is the rental. And the rental wasn't even under me. It was a guy who worked for me who was 350 pounds. And I'm a 200, 200 pounds. But I was the co-driver. And they're starting to put the pieces together.

Now once they look me up and now they know who I am and they, oh shit, organized crime background, They knew that already. And they, because I got stopped going Atlantic City with $35,000 of cash fell out of my trunk of my glove compartment. And I had eight grams of Coke. And that's when you're finally arrested. No, that was another time.

Okay. But so. So they had their man. You're the target. Now they went to every one of these jewelry owners. Is this the guy? Oh, yeah. This is the guy.

So they pinned you to all those robbers. Well, they pinned me. I ended up getting indicted. I had the most indictments that of most prisons I was. in, I was indicted in four different federal districts. A middle district of Florida, eastern district of Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Southern District of Georgia. And it's a federal case because you're crossing state lines. It's called Hobzac, interfering with interstate commerce, which makes it a RICO.

So when do you get arrested? I get arrested about 40 to 50 days after the robbery. And how old are you? 34. Okay. I don't, listen, when robbery came and everything happened, I got everything out of my house, made sure nothing's there, had the kids, I had the kids in the neighborhood all my side.

Listen, I built this neighborhood. I was a robbery in the neighborhood. So kids were watching out for vans, anything, and they tipped me off. So my wife ends up, I have a $15-month baby at the time. And my wife goes out and she goes to the store. She goes, I think I was followed. I mean you followed.

Okay, now it's a Monday. And I lived in a nice area and there's a coltisack, right, at the end of the Coltisac. And so at the time, things are back to normal. It's 5 o'clock. It's a Monday. I got bookmaking. I was the biggest bookmaker from South Florida, from Fort Lauder, all the way to Orlando.

While doing the jewelry heist. Yeah, I had so many businesses. I had vending machine companies, nightclub. And that's how you clean the money and stuff. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, you know too much about this. watch a lot of Ozark yeah yeah how about like so anyway I uh I got guys coming up

to some Monday to pick up tickets to do that kind of stuff and clear the books and I had a matter if I had a neighbor who used to bring me hot lobsters you know hot lobsters you know like stolen lobster beautiful lobster tails and I'd fucking be cooking steak in belmontico steaks and lobsters every fucking five days a week all my I mean it's crazy I had a cook that was a fucking corrupt And you have a nice house too. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. Does your wife know who you are? She knows some.

But not to the extent. Totally no, but she knows enough. So what happens? She's young. My wife is a, I'm, you know, my second wife, I was 31. She was 19 when I met her. 19. Yeah, she was 12 years younger than me.

Oh, wow. You know, the hot, old hot eat in all that shit. So I end up, uh, It's a Monday. And she, now I have a 15-month-old baby, my daughter. My son's six,

he's seven, he's in New York with my, my first wife. And she goes to the mailbox at the end of the Coltersack and scream, I hear it. Now,

at that time, you'll love this. This is 1996. I have a computer. What the fuck was a computer back then? I spent five grand for a modem and all this crazy shit. You wouldn't even know what it is.

Yeah. And, uh, I ended up saying, I hear, they're coming. And I jump out of my seat and I turn around, go towards the back of my house, and the fucking ninja guys are coming around

the fucking jacuzzi and the shit and the fucking through the patio. The fucking door flies open. The ninja people, there's a helicopter over my fucking house. And they get me. And it was funny because they didn't even tell the police in the local police because I had them on the hook.

Don't they need to? I'm the godfather. than a mayor's kid. Wow. I thought they needed to have local police when the feds are doing. Hell no, they knew I owned the fucking local police. Wow. Literally.

They drag you out in handcuffs. They get me on a head, put me on the curb. They weren't bad. Listen, the FBI and the FBI and marshals and shit. Pleasant people. What I got to say is they were professional. Yeah. They didn't try to do anything bad to me.

They didn't. In fact, I had about three or four grand in my pocket. They let me give it to my wife. They let me give it to the Rolex to the wife. I got great sneakers. I know I'm going to jail. fight so here's my sneakers get my rich shitty sneakers man i know the game and i've been a right because i've been a dade county jail i know the game yeah so uh they let me do all that but you don't know

what you're pinched for at this oh i know i yeah you know it okay they they they're i mean you know that they had hard evidence in fact let me tell you how good the fbi is they had a warrant for excessive cash jewelry jewelry jewelry paraphernalia scales and stuff like that i had a nine-foot oak bar right in my living room and when you come in and go to the living room I had probably three eight balls of coke there weed

bookmate they didn't give a fuck left it there didn't take it didn't even call anybody didn't give me shit they got me that's what they came for and that's it and listen the FBI I will to this day they know they're fucking shit

don't anybody comes to me says oh the FBI is stupid are you fucking an idiot they just don't want you yet they build their I mean like with me when I got arrested they didn't search my house they didn't search my office yeah they had all the info there's nothing else to do when you see them doing like those stage things pulling out the boxes and stuff like that's all it's like the show when you get a dude who comes up to you go yeah the FBI they raided my

house and they come home and yeah but they didn't have enough evidence I go you ratin are you fucking kidding me yeah if the FBI or DEA comes into your house and arrests you, their case is built. It ain't no fucking, oh, we're hoping to find something. They don't arrest you for the hell of it. They don't do that, man. They don't waste money. And you'll hear many guys.

Oh, they, yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. Because then I know. And a lot of times, they already have you. They want to just leave you out there to entrap other people. Fucking right.

They know what they're doing. Are you the only one that gets arrested out of your crew? I am the only one ever in. Dited on my crew out of a RICO act. And so no one else goes down with you. Nobody ever. Six years later, my brother gets arrested. For the same thing?

Well, for these crimes, because his ex-wife told on him. Oh, my God. Don't get married. That's a great mind. He's right. You can laugh on that one. Everyone's taking notes in here. Yeah.

Don't get married. Do you hear that? So do you, I'm guessing they don't give you bond. No bail. Well, you know, it's a funny story about Bond. My, you know, I've appeared in court before. I'm not a very gym with the system. So we go in front of the court.

And this is why I talk to tell, as a guy who's got a law degree now, I tell people, don't ever give up your bond hearing. Here's what happened. So we go to bond hearing and my lawyer sits up and says, Your Honor, you know, there's only two reason a person doesn't get bond. if you're a flight risk or you're a threat to the community. It's the only two reasons. Sure enough, my lawyer gets up and says, Your Honor, I represented Mr. Lawton in New Jersey on a case with drugs. He flew back and forth.

This man is not a flight risk. This is a paid attorney. Yeah. He's not a flight risk. And there's a federal judge now. It's all big shit. You know, it's a whole different animal. Different ballgame than the state.

You ain't talking about people. You're talking of people who can arrest the president. They don't give them fuck. So the judge is going Yeah and he goes And you know They're saying violence But this you know

The fucking fed's free She goes well you know I have to The US attorneys Jump your honor Your honor This man is involved With the Gambino crime family

We have more evidence He's gonna be an indicted In four more cases Oh boy I went back in the seat So you thought you had a chance It to make it out Because if I was getting body in

You're done I'm gone I'm flying Do they seize your ass? sets at all or no? No, they didn't know. Yes, they did. They did.

They took everything. Yeah, well, they've seized. When they take, they don't, they don't take it physically. They just seized it. You can't, you can't liquidate. You can't do certain things. Yeah. So you don't get bond.

What's going on now? Well, I don't get bond, right? Now, fuck. Because if I got bond, I'm flog. I'm jumping. I'm jumping. I don't give a fuck. I'm jumping bond, man.

I know it. Because I knew it would have come, but they knew. That's how I knew how much they had. And I end up getting kidnapped. I say kidnapped because the feds come get me at three in the morning. I'm at Miami. I'm in Miami. I'm in the FDC, federal detention center.

That they have in like every state. Yeah. Yeah, downtown Miami. And three, you know, one in the morning to fucking get on the day, take me, get on a plane. They gave me diesel therapy. You want on Conair? I've been on Conair 16 times. Great trip, man.

16 in black boxers. Yeah. They didn't play with me. So, because, you know, one, I had a bad record. two of them in penitentiaries you know it's it's a different animal I used to want to fuck it look at it I remember they used to put us because we had black box

in front of the girls the back right behind the girls and in front of all you ever been on here yeah I tell that story all the time one trip they put me through diesel therapy I went from New Jersey to Philly to Danbury to Brooklyn to Oklahoma to Oklahoma to Chicago

then to Wisconsin it was the worst trip ever Oklahoma sucks I've been in Oklahoma so many times. I was there with the Indian was there. You weren't there. There was an Indian guard there. He raped you out of the fucking guy there

and fucking tick you out of that fucking line. You know, when you get off the plane and you're going to line up the whole wall, he took a motherfucker. This guy was about six foot six. 300 fucking big Indian guard from Oklahoma. They call him chief. And motherfucker was badass motherfucker.

But I've been in Oklahoma so many times. So what was the final charge that you were charged with? I was charged with racketeering. It was one count? No, no, no, Hobbsack robbery, four counts. Four counts of Hobbsack robbery, racketeering, four counts of, uh, interfering in interstate commerce under the Hobbs act,

right? Four counts with armed robbery. And how much time are you facing? Well, I was facing life in prison. And your lawyer tells you this. Yeah. Is he trying to get you to make a deal? Like throw people under. My lawyer, fuck me.

I end up fucking want to kill him. My lawyer, so, you know why they call lawyer sharks? Let's hear this one. Because they feed off the wheat. They feed off people who are in trouble. So true. I get a phone call.

I don't get a phone call. I call home from the jail. Now I am in 6th in Market, but now they hold you at Farrington, New Jersey, or School Kill, Pennsylvania is where they hold you when you're down here. Back in those days. And I call my wife at the time. She's young.

She's 20, whatever. And she had a baby. and she's crying oh my god i'm never going to see you what is the fuck you're talking about she goes keith called me said he needs another 100 grand or 50 grand i think i gave 50 grand to start another 50 grand this is a lawyer yeah because you're never getting out because you're facing life and it's in the newspapers because it came out in the newspapers all the shit organized crime involved in in uh jewel ring and all that kind of shit and to make a look uh sexy uh of course it is so fucking shit

She's cried. I go, he said what? Meaning, I'm going to kill this motherfucker. How do you call my wife and ask for more money? I already gave you $50,000. He did nothing but one fucking bail hearing, motherfucker. You need another $50,000. Before fucking being blank, you call my wife?

I get a fucking counselor call. And I'm in the counselors. You know about counselors, so I go into counselor, and I don't give a shit. You motherfucker, I'm going to kill you if I get out of here. You better give her fucking. money give a 40,000 back. If you fuck out,

the council's looking at me. I don't give a shit. You know, I'm fucking done. You know, I don't care. Now, it's not recorded, obviously, because it's the council's phone. Yeah. And I end up fucking firing him. I don't know what to do.

Luckily, my mob connections, I get a fucking visit. Oh, this is a classic movie scene right now. Yeah, I get a visit. I get a visit. I'm thinking, oh, fuck. Because, you know, if you get a visit, you don't know who it is. Uh-oh, it's fed, something else, something. That's when I got indicted again.

That was another one. But anyway, I get a visit. Okay. Hey, Larry, it's a lawyer visit, too. What the fuck? I didn't hire no lawyer. I don't know what to do. This is not even a week later.

I'm still fucking mad. And because I called, and they couldn't represent me because they couldn't bring a lawyer in a reference because they didn't want to be involved in what was going on, which they get. so a guy goes he comes into how you doing Larry he goes

he says to me you know like this and he goes I was sitting here by some friends I knew right away what was there I said yeah

he goes I'm thinking okay he goes and I look through your case he goes I can't represent you he goes but and I'm going to give you some

suggestions he goes I think you're all right he goes you're going to do a lot of time he goes but you know

not going to do life you're not going to do what do you mean he goes he goes yeah he goes you know first of all he goes you didn't have a gun i don't go what he goes you didn't have a gun i mean i you used a BB gun oh yeah i used the BB gun what fucking BB gun yeah the feds never found a gun on me I never shot a gun. So how'd they know? Bingo. I didn't know this. Because the big time on my case was the 924C,

which is a gun charge. So being that I fucking didn't have a gun, they have to drop the 924C. So we went to a preliminary hearing. Now I get a lawyer, a public defender. And I know more about the law because I went into the law library. This is when I started my law career. Ian, like I said,

just like with YouTube or anything, I don't quit. I fucking live and live your fine way out, yeah. 924C. That's what happens. You're facing life in prison too. You live in, I tell people whoever ever, ever goes to prison and doesn't do their own case the right way, then

they're idiots. There's guys that are drooling over it, they're studying it. Oh, I was it. But it's fight or die. It's fight or die. You gotta survive. But there's other guys Oh, I got a good paid attorney. And he's getting life. Because that attorney will give a fuck about you.

No, the only one that's got your back is you. 100%. So it brings a whole new level of like passion to your case. So what happens? I knew more about five. To this day, I probably know more about 924 C to any man alive. Now you got you got that dropped and now you're facing. Well, we go to a hearing and the lawyers and oh, I'm going to get the, shut up.

I literally told somebody, shut it. I'm going to fight this 924C. I don't give a shit. You tell him we're going to trial. wherever we're going, we're going to trial. We are going to trial, period. I will take them to court in every federal district they have, every federal district. Over the 924C.

They end up agreeing to drop the 924C if I take a plea for fucking the robberies, which is four robberies. No more. They knew about 18 others. But 90% they were sure. I said, yeah, I did that. It was fucking, I don't give a shit. I explained how I did him.

Nobody else. But they wanted John Rodriguez. So that's where I ended up getting indicted again because there's no John Rodriguez. Who's John Rodriguez? My brother. So he wants, they want your accomplice. Which is their alleged accomplice or what? My alleged accomplice, that's how I got caught with it.

That's how I got a RICO act because it has to be two or more. Oh, so one of the like the jewelers said there was a guy named John Rodriguez. No, he didn't know. Oh, I said, who's your partner, John Robbill. You just came up with a name. You take a plea deal. What's the plea deal for? The plea is for four 12-year sentences to run concurrently.

Together. Yeah, concurrently. See, it's called running concurrent or running wild or running consecutive. When it runs wild, which is consecutive, then it's you do 12, done, do another 12, none. So you're really getting 48. But when they run concurrently, that means they're all running together. A lot of people ask me, why did they give a person multiple 12 years? You're doing 12?

Well, I often say, listen, you ever hear him say, this guy's got three life sentences? And they go, yeah. You can't die three times. But if you win one of the cases on appeal, you still got to do life because you got the next life. Then you got to win the next one. The fed's bulletproof it.

Yeah, oh, they sure do. Now, was there? The feds, that's a good word. They bulletproof. When you sign that deal, though, is there a chance that you could get more than that amount of time? I could have pulled my plea then. Okay.

Yeah. No, you obviously understanding the law. You could pull your plea. And that's the only reason you would sign it. You wouldn't sign it in the mercy of the court, they call it. So if the judge. Now, and you know as well as I do, Ian. Federal judges are doing anything to fuck they want to do.

A lot of them, though, are pretty consistent with the plea deal for the most part. Mostly, yeah, yeah. Unless you're signing like an open plea or it's different. Or he don't like you. Yeah. And I've seen that. Now, did your service hours with the military play into effect at all with the judge? You know, I don't think so.

Do you speak at your sentencing hearing at all? Yes. Just, you know, I'm sorry. Kind of deal. Did you mean it, though? No. Like, what? That's the good question.

I mean, what do you mean? No, what's your mindset? I mean, I'm sorry I got caught. Yeah, what's, you're in federal court, you're getting sentenced to 12 years in prison. What's your mindset? What are you thinking at this time? Good point. That's a great question, Ian.

You know, understanding prison. See, I'm not a rookie to prison. I was on Rikers Island. I know shit. But you're a rookie to federal prison. Yeah. Oh, rookie to the big boys. And anybody, you know, it kind of, I get a big kick out of this line.

Oh, I'd rather be in the feds than the state. No, you won't. Not at max. Anyway. Yeah, camp, yes. Yeah, camp, absolutely. I've never been to a camp. I'll ask you about a camp when you're on my show.

Sounds good. In the real prisons, no, because here's why. First of all, in maximum security prisons in the feds, and I'm talking Atlanta, at that time, Lewisburg, Atlanta, Levinward, Lompoc, they are so bad. First of all, your money don't help. I was in prison with Nikki Scarfo, Vicarina, mob bosses, hitmen. Everybody who's in the penitentiary in the feds is a, you know,

either a killer, able to kill, or a different level criminal. They have money, but their money don't mean anything in prison. See, in state prison, if you go to a maximum security prison, money means a lot. Because you might know somebody, there's connections, there's a whole different animal in the state compared to Fed. Feds do not give a fuck who you are from helicopter wire over to prisons to get out. I mean, they cover their fucking asses. So when you compare a federal, in fact, if you look up on even Google,

worst prison in the United States, worst prison in the world. Do you know a prison comes right up on that? Y, ADX. ADX. Yeah. And I know people have been there. And then, you know, when I was in Atlanta, it was. That's the first federal prison you went to.

Well, I went to Lewisburg first and then Atlanta. and Lewisburg all short time. When I went to Atlanta, the guard said, who did you piss off? You're going to Atlanta. That's like the worst. At the time, it was the worst prison in the country. In fact, they brought a,

what they call a troubleshooting warden. They had a guy named Willie Scott, who was a warden that used to go to prisons. And he had authority over the region. He worked directly for the Bureau P director. He would walk into the prison. I was in Atlanta. and he was Atlanta.

We had a murder a month for 18 months. A murder. Not talking about fucking overdoses, suicides and shit. A murder. Willie Scott was a big black guy, man. Willie Scott, Warren Scott. So I'm new in the prison. Now, I went there and I suitcases,

which means put a note up my ass for a mob boss from a prison I was in beforehand. From Farrington, New Jersey. I had a note. I never opened it, never did anything. Wait, you see you just took this note and shoved it up your ass. Well, yes, you put it in cellophane and you know, all that. And it doesn't come out during the squat and cough.

Fuck, no. I love that fucking bullshit. All right. I fucking had more knives up my ass and fucking messages and drugs. Your ass is fucking, your ass got seven extra inches in it to hold anything the fuck it wants. But it took you going to prison and realize this one. Hell yeah. I didn't know, boy.

So you take this. I wish I did, no. You take this note to him what I have. happens. Well, I get on the yard into Atlanta. So now, first of all, I have to go to Captain's Review. The penitents you go to Captain's Review. First of all, they left me in a hole for three weeks, just a fucking rat's mice. It's a fucking worst place. If you've been to Atlanta, holdover. No, I've never been to Atlanta. You heard about Atlanta. Hold on. I've heard over Atlanta, yeah. You don't want to go to that, period. You probably heard that too.

It was, it is to this, I mean, first of all, I don't know if anybody heard this year, In the beginning of the year, they had a Senate inquiry, but you know, they closed it. Yeah, they closed down the camp too, right? Everything, the whole prison. They shut it and they called it a threat to the southeast of the United States. Not Georgia, not Atlanta, the city, not Georgia, to the southeast of the United States. Yeah, I heard about the corruption with the guards, everything. Listen, that was so bad when we were there.

Anyway, so I go to Atlanta and I go to California. I'm in the hole and I mean, we want to talk a fucked up place. So, I mean, from the hole to everything, from rogons to fucking, you just, it's really what that bad. It is third world country shit. So I end up fucking getting on the yard. I have this note for the last two months, you know what I mean? Sitting up your ass. Well, you know, out, you know, so you're clean.

Yeah. You decide to use the bathroom and shit. So I got a note. I end up taking the note, clean it up, give it a, you know, don't give it. You know what I mean? I give him the note and I said, hey, anyone knew where Vic Arena is. Vic Arena was a mob boss who was with the Columbo's

in the war with the Persico's when they had 12 people killed during that thing in the night. And I remember that on the streets. I remember that, of course. I wasn't involved with that family, but I know the whole shit. So I had a note from another dude who I hung out, which is just give this note to Vic. And he sealed it.

And when he seal it, you don't look at it, you know. Because you can tell if somebody looked at any note. So you don't do that. I give him the note. They go, oh, yeah, Vicarini's on a yard at 12 o'clock in the afternoon. Blah, blah, blah. You go out there. And now, you met, you know, when you're in a hole, you've been in a hole?

Yeah, I did six months. Okay. When you're in the hole, you come out white as a fucking white, like, you know, like, you're, you can tell. First of all, you even walk the yard, you ate, your pain, you don't understand it. So I go into the fucking yard. I asked for Vickarini sitting on the benches. I gave him a note. I said, hey, this is from the guy I was with.

And I leave. And I said, thank you. He goes, okay. So I leave. That was the end of that. I'm hurt. And next move, because, you know, penitentiations all moves.

I go up and I go in and they go to a unit. I'm laying down. I get a guy comes to a cell. Hey, Larry, yeah. You didn't know who I was. Larry, yeah, yeah. He goes, ha, ha, ha, I'm like, fucking still is shock in this fucking place.

He goes, a Vic Arena wants to see you on a yard today at 6 o'clock. you know after dinner okay and I didn't know where but where he was at that's what I assumed so sure enough I go to eat now you gotta remember I'm just coming from the fucking shoot fucking old got nothing got the bobo fucking sneakers got the fucking you know

you know those fucking things the vans whatever they call them and I go on the yard I go out you have to eat I go on the yard I go see Vic you sit down he says you're all right he goes let me give it and he had a bag of commissary fucking sneak his shorts cups bowls you know how it works in fucking prison i mean i got a bag

a fucking commissary the whole work because those are your people vick got this whole bag for me now do they check you at that point to say hey you have like x amount of days to prove your paperwork or they no he checked me oh so he made phone calls whatever he did and so you were good i'm with them So do you think your prison experience was different because of your mob ties? Absolutely. We're going to talk about that on my show. Yeah, because like someone like me, and I will get to it on your show, but like someone like me does not go to a penitentiary and have that same experience.

It's like totally different. You ever been to a penitentiary? No, the highest I've been is a low security prison. Totally. You know, it's a different animal, obviously. You knew that. But even guys that aren't well known, like I've had guys on the shows that have been in pens, like the two brothers, they went.

went through the whole paperwork process because no one knows who they are. Absolutely. Yeah. So I used to, I was the dude to pull the paperwork. So you're running with the, I pulled paperwork. So you're run with the Italian car then?

Oh yeah. I mean, I am, listen, and I got sick at that because there's politics involved. Yeah. When I say politics. Yeah,

what are like prison politics? You know, I got sick of it because there's different mob families, you know, like, you know, of Canada, New York,

Columbus, Gambinos, with Casey, jenevies, all these guys, banana, family, the five families. And there'd be guys from here and tell you,

ah, don't talk to him. You know, he's, I don't give a fuck. I'm an associate. I'm not, you know what I mean? I'm a fucking guy who's

strong, healthy young kid. I did my thing. And fucking, you know, it kind of reminded me a good fellas because I do remember that

in that movie. You do your thing, you know, you're fucking, you're partying, you're drinking, you fucking got you guys in your unit.

You know, you have a house. Do they put you to work? in prison, like the Italians? Are you like their muscle? No, no, no, no. They take care of you. Yeah. Meaning like I got a job in the kitchen. If you ever notice all the mob places, the

mobsters all get jobs in the kitchen. And we do nothing in the kitchen, but... They want their meats. No, we filled napkin holders. That was our job. And when we fill napkin holders, we fucking get whatever we want for the kitchen and this and we hang around, tell stories. It was just what we did.

You know what I mean? So, you know, I I end up getting a job in the kitchen, you know, in Atlanta. Yeah, from what I've seen, like, with the Italians, they always eat the best on the compound. Of course we did. Now, what kind of meals are you guys, like, eating with your connections and the money? Well, you know, again, we all had money. Even I had money.

We had money. So we ate as much off the commissary and off what we stole and bought from people out of the kitchen than anybody, obviously. And we would get together. It's not like Goodfellers where they had the bottom of the line. wine, sit out, he's in his bathroom. You know, that's a bullshit. But it was

where I used to cook. When I went down, I ended up going, getting, when I left, when my points go low from Atlanta, I go to Coleman. So the fucking said, they said I was trying to run the yard on Coleman, so

they kicked me off that yard. And they sent me to Jessup, which is the best place I've ever been. And that place I ended up attacking a unit. manager and ended up going back to the penitension. Yeah, I got to hear you're telling me about that in the car. I got to hear this case manager story. She's a fucking cunt.

Anyway, yeah. Okay, so anyway, we're still in Atlanta. So, you know, the guys in Atlanta, Atlanta was such a violent penitentiary place. You don't go from that place to go to another place and think things are normal. And even the guards and the people knew it. You don't survive Atlanta unless you're,

you're smart. Obviously, you know, people think, oh, does you're brawn? I was, yeah, I was a fighter and all. But it's this that gets you to Atlanta. You know, people don't understand. I can feel tension. You know, you understand what I mean. I can literally feel tension.

If I was on that yard, I knew by looking at people's feet, what are they wearing? They're wearing flip-flops. Nobody's waiting for something to kick off. when you see a guy take a couple of magazines and put them in between their stomach you know he's waiting for fucking get a war when you see a guy put fucking shoes on

everybody's wearing fucking boots and fucking sneakers something's not right you can feel tension you can know when it's coming you know it you know the people you're watching the way they're looking at someone else the way they're just keeping an eye on their back

or they're sick you know so there's just things you become I'm such aware of in a penitentiary. And sure enough, every time it happened to me, it paid off, because I've seen something happened. What was the most violent thing you saw in a penitentiary? Wow. I was in my cell.

It's a good story. I was in my cell. And they had eight o'clock count came, eight o'clock recall. So everybody comes off the yard. I was in Atlanta. And I hear screaming. All of a sudden, it's about nine o'clock. And we're here.

I mean fucking like a man screaming for his fucking life. Now we can't get to the next tier to help him. Now we know who it is. We know the person. And the guards screaming, lockdown, lockdown, everybody's locking down.

You know, the first thing you do in a pet of tennis, you grab ice or you grab batteries from a store guy or whatever the fuck you got to do. You got to make sure. You never know in lockdowns how long they're going to be. So you grab it. you can grab and

fuck going our cell nothing happens. They don't let us out after nine. Normally from 9 to 9.15 they'd count and they'd let out for 915 to 10 o'clock. They don't let us out. Oh fuck. Next morning

the door's cracked. As I tell everybody when I was in a pet, when I was in prison, I never ever, ever slept past 6 o'clock in the morning. I would get up and have my boots or shoes on. and ready to go. Because I don't know who I pissed off

because I watched the guy lay in his bunk sleep and get killed. So I'm fucking like, you know, whole shit, okay, 6 o'clock, I get up in the morning. We all go down, wait for the units to be called for child. Now, a guy comes from the medical unit

and he comes into the unit and he goes, man, you guys got to listen. You got to see this. And he comes back with the medical report. Now, we knew the cell, that where the guy happened and we saw a crime scene tape crime scene tape in the prison

in the prison across the cell door and it said in there inmate his name inmate Shane's last name I don't forget it inmate Shane's anus was cut with a sharp object from the top of his anus

to his scrotum and seminal floor was found two guys took this kid and I have a picture and cut his ass with a razor blade from the ass till scrotum and fuck. Why'd they do this? Now, obviously,

you know, I talk about that at classes I give. We all know rape is not a crime of sex. It's not a crime, you know, get a hard off of rape. Rape is a crime of violence, power, you know, that's all it is. Obviously, these

two guys, multiple life sentences they're done. They don't give a fuck. They took this kid and they cut his anus from his ass to fucking scroar him and they fucked them and the seminal flu was found now he didn't die because in the penitentiary you're always knowing someone dies because they recount there'll be another count oh what if he fuck no matter what he dies it's going to be another count because the numbers have to add up to what they currently have exactly count count count numbers are the biggest

thing in prison so they fucking count and they fucking he didn't they didn't count he didn't die and I'm sure he was transferred and to this day you know it's sometimes even when I touch between you know my under my balls I I don't mean that to be sick I feel fuck I mean it'll click a memory in me and imagine yeah how does that sit with you mentally like looking back on it you know I'll tell you truth I had a girl for a long time and uh she used to say I used to fucking have phone nightmares you know like I don't know nightmares I would scream or uh you know some shit would happen and uh I I get it

I'm sure I do You know listen That one that one That one hurt Because his young kid 22 years old You know And

And You know Either that one I lost my sally He got killed For $5 for a book of stamps And he was misclassified And that one hurts

To this day It hurts He was a young kid He was 24 years old He used to visit His wife would visit with my wife at the time and we'd go visit in Edgefield

this is. Another bad penitentiary. Kid had a drug charge. Bullshit drug charge. He was totally misclassified. We used to try to go to the council's office. What the fuck's this kid doing here? You know? He had six months left, though, at the time. He had six months he had a three-year sentence. I don't know who he pissed off, whatever. This kid was a good kid. And he got... Matter of fact, I have a tattoo on my leg. I'll show you. I won't fix it.

because we used to do tattoos in our cell and we got fucked up we were smoking weed fucked up and he fucked up the tattoo bad I mean because he's learning he put a stencil you know how stencils go with the pen

and all that he put it on it and he's smushing it and he's doing it and we're fucked up he can't fit there's no fucking stencil anymore what are gonna do

and I have that on my leg right now and I won't fix it he was at he ended up coming a good tattoo you do too. He's very good kid. He's from Alabama. We called him Bama. Young kid and he ended up getting killed. I was on

the yard when he got killed. And this happened in yourself? No, it happened it happened in the unit, but I was on the yard when it happened. Would you have stopped to Oh, fucking area. Yeah, people know. Listen, I'm at this point been in prison for a while.

6, 70, you know, my reputation is good, fucking convict. that kind of stuff. I sold with them. I mean, no, they wouldn't have did it if I was around. If I was there,

it wouldn't have happened. There's no question. He owed a kid $5. $5.5 is a book of stamps if you remember. I don't know if it was when you were in. It was $10, yeah. What?

A book of stamps was $10. Wait a minute. A fucking book of stamps was how much? $10. $10. $10. That's what the street price was. So you buy it on the commissary for $10.

It sold for $10. That's what a book of stamps is? Yeah, 10 bucks. I think it's probably more now. This is four years ago, five years ago. When I was in, a stamp was 30 cents, a 29 cents, 30 cents. So one book of stamps, no matter what it was, was $5. So they killed this kid over $5. $5.00. Why couldn't he just ask you for the month? Coulda. Could have did a lot of things. We're in a penitentiary. Yeah. Remember. Who kills him? Like what car? Oh, it was a black guy. I don't know what car was in either. They were gone. It was gone. Nobody was authorized. did if you want to call it that or so isn't it courtesy to come to the cellmate though normally not even

the cellmate normally you go to the crew like if you were with us and ean owed money they let's say you owed money to the i don't know the fucking latin king's the latin king would come to us or who our shock call is and say listen you know is this fucking 50 or 100 bucks for her or whatever and we would pay that and beat your fucking ass silly and stick fucking $200 of fucking heroin up your ass. You'd go to the hole. You know, you'd know the deal and you'd sell that heroin and come back

and he's back. He fucked up. Exactly what happened all the time. But some guys don't learn they keep getting their ass beat. And that is true. You know, they're an addict. You know, they're an addict. What do you think was like the most surprising thing you learned about prison? Surprising?

I don't know. You know, surprise. I don't know. Do you think it's like how the system is in general? Like with the fact that that kid was in that penitentiary to begin with? Okay. I get where you're going. Like what shocked do? What was like a wow factor? You know, I always knew the government didn't give a fuck. You know, I mean, I didn't.

I didn't know to the degree of how the system in itself is corrupt, meaning I was wanted when I when I when they fucked with me and I was beaten and tortured strapped down naked in prison in prison strapped down naked all document right yeah it's in my book

who who beat you up the guards why the guards beat you up because I was writing against the deaths of people in prison people who died I ended up see I learned the system the right way you know I was really good at the law degree and everything else

and I became an expert with the CFR, Code of Fake Regulation. I end up fucking with the prison and they don't like that. I actually had a, I fucking hate this prick to this day. Warden Lamana. John Lamana. What a scumbag.

This fucker was, I had the head of OSHA come to my cell in the hall and say, Lorton, keep fucking making waves. The warden is fucking going crazy. He's talking about you in meeting. Who fucking warden talks I had a fucking 2,000 inmates. He's talking about you.

He hated me, Warden Lamana. What a prick. He ends up going, I find this out later. He ends up working for the private prison systems. Of course he does. You know, he's a scumbag. Anyway, he hated me, and I was exposing the deaths of people in prison.

Three of my friends were killed in prison by lack of medical care or everything else that goes along with that. They let one guy bleed to death so bad in his cell. a murder in his cell said it looked like a pig was fucking stuck it looked like he fucking slaughtered

a pig that's how bad the cell was in his fucking unit and let him bleed to death in his fucking cell he had cancer you know they just don't give a fuck you know that yeah and so I think the shock of the system is I did not know how

heartless I knew they you know some would be heartless I knew people could be fucking vicious the system itself as a whole is literally and I just did something on my channel about this is the worst prison system in the free world there's no question about that we are worse than Spain Italy France Germany Mexico Canada you can go on and on and on every non-third world country well you're forced to become like animals in a sense too you have to it turns good people that may have made a simple

mistake into something that they never thought they would become it's a best way of explain you know yourself and you were in Lowe's and I I've seen like some of the stuff like I had to change or alter that went against my values or stuff only because I was in that position, this dangerous position and you have to do shit to survive. And people can comment on that from the outside as much as they want. But until you're in that position, you see yourself face down that. Like there are guys walking around at a low security prison. I'm there for fucking fraud for a three year sentence, nonviolent. And there's guys walking around with rods this.

big steel rods so much we call them yeah they're coming down from the mediums in the higher security prisons yeah yeah you know it's funny you know I was in a penitentiary you said and when I was in Atlanta I used to talk to a guard and he goes I go man what's it like in that fucking camp over there he was Lorton he goes you wouldn't make it 10 minutes in that

fucking place what do you mean he goes you'll leave he'll kill somebody He was just The respect is not there The angle's not there He goes But there's guys down there And it will still do

I often tell people this I don't care what level prison you're in Prison is prison What prison people don't get Yes I was in violent prison But whether you're in a camp Low medium or high When they take away your freedom

And tell you what to do And how to do it Is what prison is about Because you're a human being You're an adult You're fucking want to they're told when to fucking shut your lights out. You talk down to like a scumbag.

I don't care what level. I'm sure camps too. And, yes, you'd like the little freedom. I mean, if you consider that freedom, you fucking miss the boat, too. You know, a lot of people, oh, I don't do anything. Yeah, to a guy who's got a life sentence, you put him in a camp, he feels like you fuck is in Disneyland.

Yeah. But even the guys who, listen, even the penitentiaries I was in, we would, you know, you become, you adapt. I hate to say it. But I don't like the fact that people think, prison is prison. People got to get that. Prison is prison.

And the United States is just zero rehabilitation. You know, it's funny. I ended up being one of the only ex-cons who ever went back to his own prison and spoke. I spoke at Coleman. And at the release class, you know, it was funny because I kept giving shit out. I didn't give a shit.

They told me what I can't do. Fuck you. I did it. I know the game. And they still, and this is in maybe I spoke there four years ago. Oh, 2017. Matter of fact, I just showed a guy was on my show. I showed him the certificate.

They gave me this BOP certificate from fucking speaking and shit. It was 2017. So that's five years, six years ago almost. And things haven't changed. You know, I got out of prison in 2007. I went into 2009. You'd think things would change? not much

and that's why I really think the people who watch this show are gonna love when I talk to you about going to prison in 2016 compared to 2000 1996 yeah you know we're gonna have such a contrast and

just tell me about $10 book of fucking stamp Jesus Christ now what year do you finally get out and how much time do you serve? I end up doing my 12 year 11 and a half years on 12 that shouldn't be less or you You lost all your good time. A lot of good time.

I got a couple of days. So you're maxed out. What year is this? This, I go out in 2007. 2007, how old are you? I am 46 years old. Are you thinking like I'm gonna get back to being the jewel thief again? No, no, no.

What's the mindset? My mindset when I got out. Now you're gonna remember, I ended up getting my paralegal degree. I had a lot of credits from college, got my paralegal degree. I was gonna work as a, in the law field of some sort. I made a writing briefs to it, something like that. And I got out of prison in 2007.

I did not want to go back. Nobody gets out of prison ever and says, you know, I liked it there. I think I'm going to go back. You know what people say? I'll kill a cop before I go back. I'll die before I go back. And I get it.

I get it 100%. But they also say they want the money that was from their past life too. You'll be surprised. I've never seen guys who do a lot of time get out. I helped my buddy get out who did 30 years, 27 on 30. A good friend of mine to this day. As a matter of fact, you can interview him. Great guy.

Paralegal, one of the smartest legal minds I know. He remembers me in prison. He was like, you were the craziest motherfucker I know. Great guy. His name's Paul Tolini. And to this day, we're friends. I picked him up when he got out of prison because I know how hard that is.

Because people are institutionalized. I was totally institutionalized. I tell people this all the time. I was so fucked up inside. I was institutionalized. Not knowing I was. Intelligent, read the papers, did everything. You fucking can't help but be in this institutionalized.

I couldn't fucking, I could not function on the outside. Yeah, well, some hard things to reintegrate. I'll tell you what, Ian, I could not buy a cup of coffee. I had a friend of mine. He used to caught me. I was, I'm a golfer.

He buys me golf clubs all. So we'd go to the golf club. and whatever he ordered, I said, I take the same. I couldn't order. And I'll tell you why. The average person today, everyone in the studio, Nick, you guys, Sean, all these guys, they're going to make 1,500 choices today. That's the average, give or take.

The average inmate makes 100 choices in there. You don't got to know what you're eating, what you're wearing, what you're doing, where you're going. They make 100. Now you take that dude and throw them in the street. It's called sensory overload You fucking can't do it I tried to do it

Tell you story I got out of prison And I wanted to take I get out of prison In Forest City, Arkansas Another fucking bad prison I'm in a gang unit And fucking Forest City of That's how much the prison hated me

I'm in Forest City Arkansas I'm coming back to Florida Going to half a house I want to take a bus Fuck I've been on Con Air 16 times I've been fucking

On more plane O's his shackles And fucking Blue Boxes and fucking you know the black boy you know the box yeah and fucking I want to get on a fucking bus free so I don't want anybody to pick me up I want to go and get a bus ticket

I have money in my account I'm ready to go first things happen Ian they bring me downstairs a day of leaving changed me out guy gives me money and say hey where do I change that money looks at me

I go give me my money I had $275 in my count they give you a 25 I had 250 something 55 I think it was and I had 25 they give you 25 dollars gate money big fucking that is I don't know they I don't know they still they gave me 25 bucks holy fuck now something they pay for the flight and shit yeah yeah they gave me a flight yeah they gave me a flight yeah they put me on a flight yeah I was on a bus yeah they gave me a flight they paid for the ticket what prison uh Wisconsin oxford I was in fucking forest city they gave me a bus ticket yeah so anyway

I get on the fucking, I said, give me my money. He goes, that's your money. He said, don't fuck with me. I want my money. Was that your money? I met. Money changed three times. If you guys remember money back in the day,

money is now got a colored head. It's big. It's totally different than what I went to prison in. When I went to prison, money was money. Now, I thought it was like a note you go to the bank and they give you real money. That's what I thought it was. He convinced me it's the money.

I said, okay, I got money. I got $2,70. Pocket. I mean, now, listen, can you spot it under a Cover Cop? You know you can. Fuck, you can spot a dude who just fucking come from fucking prison. Bobo fucking sneakers, a fucking jeans, a white shirt, fucking psychopath.

They drop you off at the bus station the minute it comes. They'll wait with you. They want you out of that fucking town. So I get, they give me the bus ticket. I give it. the bus driver i get on the bus i sit down and i sit next to this fucking blonde good looking girl holy fuck i ain't seen a fucking broad first of all for years i didn't even see a car he went in Atlanta for years you didn't see a car because it's a 40-foot wall

i thought a christ of 300 was a rose royce that's how fucked up i was anyway i sit next to this girl and she's got a phone This is 2007. It was a razor flip phone. I don't know if you guys remember razor flip phone. Yeah, I remember the razor. And I go, what the fuck is that? I ask her, can I see your phone?

Think of how that sounds right off the bat. Who the fuck see somebody's phone? You're just fascinated. She's fucking looking at me like this psychopath, this fucking look at a phone. And I take her phone. And I'm thinking, how can these fucking fat fingers touch these little buttons? I closed the phone because she was on it

hung up or whatever it was because you gotta remember when I went to prison I had a motor roll of phone I beat people with I could make a commercial out of that and a beeper beat people and make a phone call all the same day so anyway I'm fucking sitting there and I'm doing this Ian I'm going like this with my hands

hi I'm free I'm like I must have looked like the fucking wackiest motherfucker on the planet yeah next stop she gets up and moves. I had a seat by myself the whole trip. Nobody even fucking sat next to me. Oh wow, I didn't think in any

other, I'm looking out the window. I'm like, I'm like fucking really a lost soul. Next thing over the pierre all right, everybody, we're going to pay 40 minutes for lunch. 40 minutes, we're pulling in for gas for lunch. Gas for lunch.

Well, when I went to prison, a gas station sold cigarettes, beer sodas no no no no no we pull in and there's a subway there's a food mart and I remember that fat

pedophile now that scumbag Jared Fogel fuck but I want a fucking subway sandwich they got money in my pocket I go fuck get out worried about the time I'm watching I had to the time X

remember the time X you remember the casio too Cassie, that's what it was. That was a pop. I fucking go on, I get online, I look up, I freeze. I fucking freeze. People are behind me. I'm fucking feeling fucking nervous.

I can't make a choice. I could not fucking say the words. I left that line, Ian, and I went on the bus. I was crying. I'm a fucking psychopath as it is. if it wasn't for my cousin look at me how you get emotional if it wasn't for my cousin

who I called from the next station who's a psychologist I'm very close with her she said Larry you're in a very dangerous spot I want you to get on that bus I want you to don't talk to anybody I want you to get back to where you get there and she told me you have sensory overload

you can't make a choice you're going to kill somebody and I was I was ready to do something to somebody to go back to prison. And the system's not even preparing you for this. Nothing. You know that. Yeah, they threw you out. I don't know if they changed. Not a fucking thing. No, they didn't do shit for me.

I'm looking at me. I'm thinking. I fucking end up fucking getting to the prison. I get there. I didn't eat for 24 hours. I literally sat in that fucking corner. If somebody came close to me, I feel bad because of what I would have did to them. I get into the halfway house and I'm locked up and I felt good. I felt good. I'm locked up. I'm fucking locked up. And I fucking, from that process, I learned so much. My cousin, such a genius. It wasn't for her. I know I would have did something to somebody because I just was not capable of fucking functioning in the real world coming from penitentiaries, coming from very violent places

where a look could kill you. I tell people, they think, you're badass. You don't want respect. Go to prison. Because if you bump into someone, you better fucking say, excuse me. If you're in a penitent, you don't say excuse me, you just might die that night. And I know that sounds trivial, but you know what I mean. It will

happen. How long to take you to finally adjust? Well, you know, it was funny. I was in the half-well-hous. I ended up getting a job. They make you get a job. I was in Tampa. I end up fucking the girl next to me. That was the first time I got laid when I got out. That was pretty cool. But anyway, I end up

my buddy Dennis saw that I could not make a choice on fucking ordering a fucking sandwich. And he says to me, Larry, he goes, we're sitting here. He used to eat a fucking piece of chicken.

Nothing bland. This fucking piece of shit. There's no way you like this. He goes, read the menu. Order what you want. We're not going anywhere. And I did. and then I ordered it and it was that I'm like you know

I kind of always broke me and then I had and you know the first thing I've ever ordered was the number one of McDonald's because it was a big Mac I mean you do a little bit more each day and yeah I think up funny Ian because I end up I end up fucking totally

you know obviously time helps you and it's funny because to this day I fucking get the GBs of A cop is behind me. And how clean as a motherfucking whistle? Dude, that happens to me. Whenever I see a car on the cop car on the highway

or a fucking cop walks into a room that I'm at and I don't do anything illegal, but like if they did and they're there, like I'm nervous as shit. Like my heart's pounding and it's just like that trauma from that. Like that, it's literally PTSD. Totally. Like just like standing in line with them.

I do nothing. No, I do drugs. I do my tip. But I don't do any illegal. You know what I mean? I'm not going to sell drugs. I'm not going to do things. Listen, I make good money.

I do my life. I have a good time. I enjoy people. I like to educate people. I like to do what I do. But I fucking get the fucking I want to. And you get this defense mode. Yeah.

It's just what it is. What was your relationship with your, your children and your wife's at that point? I'll tell you what. My children, I got to give a lot of credit. I went to prison when my son was seven. I got out and he was 18. I went to prison when my daughter was 15 months old

and I got out and she was 13. My daughter never knew me ever. She thought I was a truck driver or whatever the fucking they told her. She used to visit me. So my daughter and I, I'm very close with my kids. They actually, my daughter and my daughter

and my son respect the fact. that I went away. I was offered three years to rap. On the mobbed. I wouldn't do it. I was off they took six million for me and I was offered three years I wouldn't do it and it wasn't because I was scared of somebody else. I was the muscle. I was the crazy fuck but it's just something again and I think it was from my dad. I think it was from my that and that's why I tell you my word if I tell you I'm to be there I'm gonna be here and what's someone does something I don't like that

you tell you're gonna be here be here that's got better to be a big good reason you're not here no and if you can't be there make it right bingo

100% and it can happen listen something can happen to me and my mom's sick I couldn't make it I pay everything

you did you know whatever we did I would take care of it I just don't people's word listen if we came here and these two dudes weren't here

I said who the fuck these motherfuckers but they're here they're good Their word means something. Who they are means something. You, that means more. Listen, I'll tell you people, as a guy who's going to be 62 years old, knocked over.

I tell you one thing. I was millionaire three times over already. Three times I made it, but I was a millionaire. Money is great. Yeah, to me it's a scorecard. Memories, people's words, and their situate. Like, I'm here right now. I don't want to be anywhere else right now, period on the planet.

I don't give a fuck. People say, I don't give a fuck if it's a celebrity or this, that I've been with a lot of them. I don't give a fuck. I want to be right here. I'm here. I'm having a good time. Having a drink.

Talking bullshit with you guys. That's what I want to be. I'm happy. I'm happy. When that stops, I will stop what I'm doing and I will get to where I'm happy again. And I hope people get that with my story or your story. or any story. You know, I love people who work, the hustle, this stuff.

I love working with Nick. I like working with Darry and my editor, my son. I like working with the people. I get mad at them. I'm fucking normal. I'm a crazy fucking. That's what makes you original though, unique, you know? But I love it, you know?

Did you feel bad, like putting your kids through that, like getting out, do you feel like you owed them something to rebuild that relationship? You know, I'm sure I did. And I'm sure that's why I spoil the fuck out of them, which I shouldn't. But what I do believe is my kids told me how proud of that I am. Because my kids know my reputation on the street, which is impeccable. And trust me, my son was smart.

He used to ride up and down in front of the bar when he was a kid. And they'd stop, hey, kid, come here. It's 20. How's your dad doing? He figured a hustle out. They took care of it. You know, he figured to hustle out. What did you get in for work after prison?

Like, what did you do for work? Well, you know, I got lucky in this aspect When I first got out of prison, Ian A guy comes up to me and says to me A friend of mine used to golf pro He goes, Larry, I need a favor. So what? What the fuck?

I'll break your fuck. Fucking you, motherfucker. Thinking he wants me to do something bad. Yeah. He goes, no, no, I'm sorry. Larry goes, I caught my 16-year-old smoking weed And he told me, fuck you, dad, wherever you ever been. So your son told you that?

Now, this is 2007. Forget weed today. But even, I don't believe you. young kids should smoke weed anyway. But anyway, he goes, you, son told you that? You want to talk lucky, Ian? I have my video,

which is right, number one video for helping kids, I have pictures and shit of me in prison with gang members, mobsters, guys with life sentence. You know what I mean? I have the pictures I have

that you can't do anymore. I don't think you can do that anymore. No, you can still take pictures? But can you take it with other people, like gangsters and shit? Yeah, you can take pictures, yeah. Okay, see, I heard it.

The pen attention you did. I don't know about in the pens, but in the lows and stuff, you could still go around. You take the, they have the community photos. You buy the ticket. You can go on the yard and take them?

Yeah, you could take the, they had a camera guy that got paid. They even stopped at what I was in. Yeah, they were still doing that. Oh, good. At least they're good. That made me feel good. But anyway, so I have pictures of me

with mobs as gangses, people who, you know, dead, a lot of shit. And I put them all together and I went and talked to the kid. And I said, two curse words. I said, you told your father

where the fuck he's been? I'm sure where the fuck I just come from This kid, look Now, I'm a big guy, he looked like, oh shit, you know And I started telling him story About the kid who got his a penis card Other stories, a lot of stories And at the end of the thing, I said, listen to me, kid

I'm calling him, I'm doing your father a favor You want to go to prison, you're going to see somebody I know, I don't give a fuck, how's that? I don't give a fuck, you go there He's going to fuck you so fucking hard You're fucking never walking in, you're like The kid's looking at me like, what the fuck? This guy's crazy.

Dad gives me a hundred. hundred bucks. And I leave. Didn't ask for it. Because Larry, thank you very much. I was talking a kid for a while, hour and a half or whatever. He's probably worried I beat the kid to dad to something. Scared the straight program.

There wasn't. No. See, Ian, that, that, everybody thinks that, but I don't yell. I don't scream. I tell a story. Yeah. And I end up, the kid says, Dad, I don't want to go wherever Mr.

Lott went, ever. I need help. To this day, that kid's doing great. and you know that god gave my number i'm getting a hundred bucks here getting a hundred bucks there getting a hundred fuck i get a phone call from the court court lady says i'm jean banish i i'd like to talk to mr law yeah i'm here uh judge rimean says yes i ain't seen no you got a want you got a subpoena i ain't going to see no judge no the judge wants to talk to you about what you do i said listen

know the law do you have a want do you have a spina I want to know what no Mr. Lawton they want to know that I'm helping kids they convince me to come in

we find out years later that I'm not supposed to be in the chambers with the judge on paper and all this shit I go to a fucking meeting on a Friday and I showed it you know

my nephew since past he has of showing me had to put a 10 power 10 cloud point I don't even know fucking PowerPoint is you gotta remember i don't know shit yeah i showed his powerpoint what i'm doing and the judge says would you like to stay to no i'm leaving i leave the fucking chambers of job uncomfortable shit i'm in a courtroom monday comes the lady goes miss the law and i have to give you a heads up

to judge sentenced two people to your program what fucking program now you have a program now I actually developed the number one program right now in the United States helping young people staff. And this is all because that friend introduced you to their son. Yeah. That's fate right there. That's fate, destiny, whatever you want to call, like everything you've been through. You know, I don't know if it would have happened or not happened. Yeah.

I mean, I love what I do. Listen, I only tell stories to try to affect people in a right way. I mean, to me, it's fascinating. I don't glorify what I've done. No, but I think when people hear. stories like yours or mine or whatever, they look at, when you look at the whole picture and you don't dissect it in parts, like you don't look at just the crime aspect and you don't look at just the motivational ending, you piece everything together to see what the person went through and

see how they came around it. That shit is inspiring. Like, I love those kinds of stories. Like, that's great. You literally went from robbing jewelry stores, working with the mob to becoming like one of the biggest YouTubers for your genre. Like that's insane. And even more than that, it's like when my program is used in court system, people get sentenced to what I do. They have to take my video. They have to watch it.

They have to take a test. They have to pass it. Police agencies use it to help try to help people. I'm the only ex-con who's an honorary police officer. How fucked up is that? Oh, they gave you a badge. I have a badge. I have a bag.

Unbelievable. I have a fuck. You know, I'm the only ex-con in the United States ever. recognized on the floor of the United States Congress. Now that they need to give you a pardon. That would be good too. But I'm the only one ever record. I'm in the congressional records.

So in 300 years when they go through the history of America, they remember a lot. Who the fuck is that guy? You got fucking recognized on a floor of the United States. They read a whole congressional record that's in the record. I think they're going to look at your YouTube videos before they would. Yeah, you know they are. We know they are.

So how do you then turn that into this big soul? social media brand. Like, when do you realize the potential of what you were doing? You know, that's a great question because you're right. I was recognized before all of the social media. Yeah, this is 2007. Like, crime wasn't really, no, no, no. 2013 is when I was recognized on Congress. But even so, like, Wolf of Wall Street just dropped is when they started promoting, like, that aspect of it. Like, I don't know what the right word is for, but that's when it started to become big, like popular. No one was, there was no TikTok back then people were telling prison stories. It was just different. There was no YouTube. Yeah, it was, it was different. 2007. Was it YouTube out?

I don't even know. Maybe, but it wasn't, it was like, it was Nick saying yeah. Was it Nick, honestly? We watched like how to videos. About 2007? Yeah. We were watching like Coke and Mentos and stuff like and YouTube. It wasn't like this prison stuff. I mean, they had like American greed, whatever, but I think like Wolf of Wall Street brought it to a new level in a way. And then, you, you're coming along how does that process unfold you know i never thought about it like you just said i do know when i started youtube i only started it three years ago and i started it because i got fucked over by vanity fair and they contest travel and actually no jumper did a whole fucking video on that and put it up all just the video of me blast and fucking

Conest travel, not kind of struggle, Vanity Fair. Yeah. And I did that because, listen, I don't do anything for money per se. I do it because I like to do it. I think it's right. I think money comes with it. You do what you love and the money will follow. You know, you know, I got a team that they need kicked in the ass, but they're great.

I do love them. I really do. Should hire me on the team. You're coming. Don't think you're not. Don't think I fucking talk to Nick already. I'm hungry, Larry. Yeah, I love it.

I'm ambitious and I'm hungry. And I see that. And I don't mean that to even joke. You're the age that I love. You're 27 and my Nick is 25. My son's that. I love working with young people. Even your studio guys, everybody's young.

Larry, the thing with me is like I literally had so much at such a young age and I lost it all. And like things got so fucked up. So to me like this is like a. fucking, this is like my redemption to like get that back. And like I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get to that level. And you'll be, you're a small young guy. You know, you're dedicated. You got a work ethic that's I love.

That's mine. I mean, who at my age you got to work ethic? Like I just will work and work. Yeah. It's just because I love what I do. And I think when people see that, they recognize that. You know, social media is I did not know what YouTube was before I started the shit. I did not know what fucking Instagram and Facebook and the stuff we miss, I really, I'm not into it.

I'm a big reader. I'm a big, I'm a communicator with you. I like people. I think when you can change people's lives, I know social media is so needed today. And the more good people we get behind social media, I think the better will all be. Well, you put a lot of thought in it. Like, I remember your first email you ever sent to me. It's like this creators don't.

respond like that you sent me like six paragraph email and it was like very i remember i remember emailing you because nick is the one who told me about you and then i i said and i i totally did i did a whole email because i thought about it and then i look them up and the things i look at and i that's smart guy i like it and and he's going to and he and you know i always believe that again i don't care what size people get and whatever i have ever get or you get or people get i've done i did a podcast so small the other day nick goes i said listen nick give the kid a hand give him he's trying he you know i used to do this with my with my uh my program if a parent only emailed me once i wouldn't see that kid but if they

email twice or three times definitely because that means they want to help it's not just oh i'll pay him to help a payment they want it they want to do it they wanted they want to they care they you know i look at it listen when i first started in youtube and all this stuff i blew up pretty quickly because it was a timing thing i got lucky a lot of ways and you got good content whatever it is but you also i also had people that we're willing to talk to you willing to bring you on i've had the assholes too we talked about that you need the assholes though to grow like that's a part of You know what? It makes you think, oh, fuck yourself. You know, fuck you.

And I like people who understand what we do. Because you and I both know, and we've talked about already, it's a grind. But you have a message. And I think your ultimate message, my ultimate message, yes, it's the grind. My ultimate message is don't do the stupid shit I did when I was younger and crazy shit. Because you can make it now, you know, like what you're doing. I love that you have this. I'm telling you, you impress me more in these 24.

I mean, just these guys are impressive. The studio is impressive. The way you set it up is impressive. And yeah, I hope we do work together in a lot of ways. In a lot of ways. And listen, I need a lot of little less than most people. Because I'm at my level. You know, I have my RV.

I love that. I love doing things. Come up here. I got a studio in the RV. and, you know, I traveled already to fucking Mount Rushmore and shit and did videos. And so you can do things. Why do you think people, like, gravitate towards your content? Like, what do you think it was about you?

Do you ever stop and think? Like, I always, I'm thinking I'm very, like, self-aware and thinking about, like, my brand and the message I'm putting out there, have you gotten a moment to think about what you're doing and making sure you never stray from that and kind of seeing that value? Yeah, I'll tell you a great point. I have a lot of very, very influential friends. I'm one of a good friend of mine is a guy who literally invented the iPhone touch. Literally so that's that.

That's awesome. I have a lot of very good friends. And you know what they always say? Larry, your story is one, nobody's got it. Like, meaning to go to what you went through in your whole life, you know, people often say, holy shit. And, you know, not one bit, Ian, not one second is made up. I mean that.

People have vetted me, like the writers and my book and companies. He go, holy shit, you're real. You ever been on concrete? No, I want to get on that podcast. Good friend of mine. I'll get you. Great. He'll like you.

Yeah, I think that was good for me. Yeah, I think that was good for me. Yeah, I think that was good for me. He wants me to come all the time. So his producer was all with me like this. And he goes, Larry, you've been on here, I don't know, three times, four times, an hour, three hour, four hours. He goes,

I sit here and I Google and I do everything you talk. Holy shit. Not one thing ever was even off. Like it is. I go, I don't have to lie. I live this life, you know,

so it's, I think people are intrigued that I'm sometimes even thinking, wow, I did really do all this shit. From congressional record to fucking police, honorary police officer to fucking robbing all this shit I did. I think, wow,

where did I get the time? Shit. Yeah. But it comes about a cost of some things, obviously, cost of time with my family, cost of time. Listen, my dad,

I was very close with it, and he had Alzheimer's, and I lost the best years of his life, and I can't ever get it back. You know, so I got my mom, which, you know, I take care of my mom,

and she'll never go to home. I'll take care of the rest of the fucking life. That's great. And so other than that, I like working with young people. I love working with young people. Nick is a refreshing drives me nods you

I mean I like young people Yeah That are Listen you guys are smart You just gotta accept Sometimes us guys My see you know What people don't get

In my whole business even I tell people I'm no smarter than you I just got more experience A place you don't want to go That's it That's the only thing I got I happen to be a tolls you got all that crap

But You guys are smart I'd be an idiot and not to listen to you, look at you, and take what you'd say with the appreciation or with the respect it deserves. And

vice versa, I'm not smart in you, but I have experience of a place, especially prisons or certain things. You don't want to go and live that life. Because, yeah, it's exciting, but you're not going to like the heartache that comes along with that. And with that, you know, obviously, I think that's

the most important. Now, if you could go back to your younger self that had just gotten out of the military and you were standing right next to that person, what would you say to him? You know, it's so hard to you in to do that because our past makes us who we are today. Would I be who I am today if I didn't go through everything I just went through? The bad parts, the, you know, there's parts I don't want to talk about, obviously, you know, violent certain parts. But the, I don't know. Listen, I think you, me, Nick,

to keep people, all you guys right here in this room, I think our brains will get us where we want to go. And we just have to let that go and accept the knowledge and keep going with it and fight it and learn. The minute you stop wearing it, people tell me all the time, I say, listen to me,

you know the best saying I say to people? When you're 20, you think you know it all. Holy fuck. I've been there. smart motherfucker. When you hit 30, you look back and you go, man, I was a stupid motherfucker at 20. When you hit 40, you look back and go, man, I didn't know shit at 30.

When you hit 50, you look back, am I ever going to learn shit? When you hit 60, you say, fuck, I'm still learning. The minute I stopped learning from you or Sean, Shane, or any of these guys, I'm none. and I don't ever want to be done, you know, until I die, I want to learn. I mean, it could be as simple as just like telling your old self, like, stay the course and everything's going to work out. I think if I had known that, you know, at 18 years old,

just everything is going to piece together. Because when I look back at everything now, every girl I dated, every business decision, everything I did, prison, the whole nine yards, everyone I met, the experiences, it brought me to literally where I am right now. And it's an opportunity to make something out of all this. And bigger and bigger and better Bigger and better I mean like my business Like yeah I owned a nightclub and stuff

But it was never really generating like It brought in money but not like a profit And now comparing to now I don't care what it brings in Yeah see here's the difference See you know what You know when you look at everything you had Like I look at all the stuff

From I own my own limousine And I had fucking And it's very hard to tell someone today Oh I don't mean anything You know I had a little limousine and a driver and multiple homes and houses and horses and boats and cars. I had all that shit.

It's easy to tell someone, oh, I don't mean shit because it's not about money. What I've tried to say this is it really, the older you get, the realize it's more about memories and who you meet. Now, you might make memories with whatever you get. Pick and choose the people. You associate with very quickly, I mean nicely. I've never ever met, I never made enemies, Ian, no matter where I was. On the way up or way down.

And now my dad told me that. He goes, Larry, he goes, you're going to do a lot in life. He goes, on the way up, don't ever fucking disrespect people and don't make enemies because you'll meet them on the way down. And I respect waiters and bus. I don't give a fuck. I take care of people. That old saying, you know, treat the custodian the same way you would treat the

Absolutely, man, because, listen, you don't know another person's situation. You don't know what they've been through. And we all with the right opportunity. Now, obviously you're smart and people are smart and that's why you're at your position you're at. If you weren't, you wouldn't be there, period, period. And that's okay too because the people, you know, they all say, and the world needs everything. Yeah.

So you can't, everybody can't be a boss. So I often tell people just to, listen, the more you, realize where you're at and be in the presence. You know, my cousin told me this Larry, she goes, be in the present right now. Be where you are right now. If you can be where you are right now, that's why I do totally enjoy this conversation

or totally enjoy whoever presence I'm in. It's a different spin on things. Well, it's important to spin because when you could be in that presence with somebody, you can truly connect with them. Absolutely. I know with that. Larry, thank you for coming on the show, man. Where could people find you at?

You got to plug in, you know, your stuff. You know, it's easy. Just Google Larry Law. Yeah, you're all over Google. You know, it's kind of, all you guys do is Google Larry Law. But I want them, you know, I want them to understand about we got cigar. That's great. Crooked Diamond Cigar.com at the cigars.

If they use promo code loyalty, 15, they get 15% off everything. And when you get $200 bottles, a box of cigars, that's $60. that's a pretty good job quite the salesman right well it is it's uh loyalty 15 and by the book the book gangster redemption it's amazing story a i listen i tell people buy the book now because when the movie comes out it's going to be worth money but awesome thank you thank you for having me and thanks for coming me and i really appreciate it had a great time yeah thank you