Locked In with Ian Bick - My Grandfather Is Victor Orena — He’s 91 Years Old & Still in Prison | Jackie Orena

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Jackie Orena is the granddaughter of Victor "Little Vic" Orena, who was allegedly the acting boss of the Colombo crime family according to federal prosecutors. Today, Victor is 91 years old, experiencing significant health issues, and is still serving what is effectively a life sentence in federal prison.This conversation does not glorify organized crime or the past. Instead, it focuses on the deeply human side of this story — what it means to watch a loved one grow old behind bars. Jackie opens up about the emotional and generational weight of the Orena name, the realities of aging in the prison system, and why she and her family are fighting for compassionate release. She talks about the day-to-day challenges her grandfather faces due to his age and health, and what it feels like to hope for mercy in a system that often does not bend. #OrenaFamily #CompassionateRelease #AgingInPrison #PrisonReform #TrueCrimeStories #FamilyLegacy #LockedInWithIanBick #realconversations Thank you to ExpressVPN for sponsoring this episode: Secure your online data TODAY by visiting https://www.expressvpn.com/lockedin to find out how you can get up to four extra months. Connect with Jackie Orena: Instagram: @freelittlevic @jackkieo Website: Www.freelittlevic.com Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 Intro — The Cost of Being Labeled “Informant” 05:55 Meet Jackie Orena — Growing Up in the Middle of It 08:10 What It’s Like When Your Family Is Incarcerated 13:40 Arrests, Trials, and Watching Your Family Be Torn Apart 20:25 Carrying the Stigma at School & in Public 25:00 Visiting Loved Ones Behind Bars — The Reality 29:40 Learning to Adapt & Finding Identity Beyond the Name 32:00 Her Grandfather at 91 — The Physical and Emotional Decline 37:00 The Mental Toll That Never Gets Talked About 41:50 Injustice, Corruption & What the System Doesn’t Want to Admit 47:00 Advocacy & Fighting for Compassionate Release 52:00 Why Elderly Incarceration Needs Reform Now 56:00 Hope, Healing & Rebuilding a Future 59:00 Advice for Families Living With This Weight 01:00:00 Final Reflections & Gratitude for the Conversation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You talking to me? Kayak, got that right. Rats, informants are useful. They're not truthful. So when you have people that have the ability to run away from their own crimes and their sentencing and the government uses them, whether they're telling the truth or not, to put out their narrative, to put other people away, that seems very unjust to me. When something like that happens, especially at that age, do you go to school the next day? Does life resume normally? How do the teachers and the kids react? I don't think that it's so much to ask for for a man in his condition to do. just come home to maybe spend one more Sunday dinner with his family. How long do you think it took for you as a kid for that identity to go away that you were the kid who had family members in prison?

People don't realize that, you know, incarceration impacts so many more people than you think. Jackie Arenas' grandfather is Victor Little Vic Arena. He's 91. He's sick and he's still behind bars after 35 years in prison for alleged mafia ties. Jackie is here to tell the part of the story people don't see. Jackie, welcome to law. in. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks so much for coming. You know, we just met a few weeks ago, and I'm glad we were finally able to make this happen. Of course. Thanks for also rescheduling, because I was deathly in bed when I got back from Vegas. Well, we can't have that. I definitely

don't want to catch it, but I also... That was the real reason. It was part of it. I mean, come on, but I'm glad you rested and you feel better. Yeah, no, I was dying. I still have a little bit like a lingering cough, but I was sick. No, I'm not coughing right now. I'm kidding. But I was sick for like a month. Oh, that's the worst. Yeah. Well, you're feeling better now? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was just, we were just talking about how I should have brought you a vitamin infusion or something. Well, you do those too? Yes. The B-12 shots? Yes, we do the shots, but I do the vitamin infusions. We could have had a drip going for you. Yeah, tell everyone about

what you own and stuff. So I have a med spa. It's a medical management company. Basically, I have nurses and stuff, doctors that work with the company, and we market all the things that they do. so it's everything from vitamin infusions, weight loss medication, Botox, filler, you know, all that fun stuff. So I'll come there for the vitamin infusions. Yes, I'll get you in. You're going to love it. I mean, you're still young for Botox. But when you're ready, we got you covered. You know, Latisha and I were talking about that about you that when she asked you saying she wanted to do Botox, you were the first person probably ever that literally said you're too young and advised against it. And that's a company you own. Yes. You know what? A lot of people got into it and they made it like such a,

a salesy thing to me that is like the worst of the worst. You have to look at everybody like they're your family member. That's how I try to treat clients because so many young girls are jumping on the bandwagon. They're not ready. Unless you're seeing visible lines, you have like a heavy brow or something like that, there is no reason to inject yourself until you start seeing lines at rest and you want to correct something or preventative. But I just, I hate to see a young, beautiful girl who has great skin do something too early. So for me, it's not about sales, it's about honesty. That's how, I mean, I wish people were like that with me all along. I wouldn't have to undo some things that I did. But, you know, this is the world we live in.

So I try to be a little different. Yeah, I respect that a lot. Thank you. And tell everyone about the hoodies. You just hooked me up with our free little Vic hoodies. So that is the free little Vic merch. Basically, as you know, and the reason I'm here is I'm on a mission to help my grandfather, as well as be a voice for some of the elderly people that are incarcerated. The free little Vic sweatshirts are made to bring awareness to part of my cause. My grandfather's been incarcerated for 34 years now, and he has dementia. He's in a wheelchair. He's 91 years old. He has diabetes. He's in chronic heart failure. He's had a pacemaker put in in prison. He's practically died there several times, and they brought him back to life. And, you know, it's just, this is the merch.

I want to get the message out there, so I brought you a hoodie. And you brought us cookies. Yes, I did. Cookies are always fun. You know, it's funny, I just realized the other day, like, before we ever even met, I saw the clip of you on Joey Merlino and Lil Snuff's page talking about the rats. Yes. Where you went in on that. That was so great. Yeah, first of all, I love them. Joey and Snuff are great. But there is one thing that we share more than anything, and that would probably be our hatred for rats.

And it's not, it's funny because people are like, you know, oh, what does this have to do with? I mean, you have to really look at it this way. Rats, informants are useful. They're not truthful. So when you have people that have the ability to run away from their own crimes and their sentencing, and the government uses them, whether they're telling the truth or not, to put out their narrative, to put other people away, that seems very unjust to me, right? So we have this justice system that everyone thinks is fair, but you can be, you know, and part of what they did with my grandfather, they gave him three life sentences, was because they said they don't want young people to be like him. What do we want to show? We want to show people that you could kill people, commit the worst crimes, but as long as you rat or let the government use your name as an informant, you could go free.

That's what we want to create in this world, or do we want more honest people? Do we want to encourage people to say, okay, these crimes don't pay, but ratting and telling on people, or not even, some of these people are used, the government uses their name and they didn't even tell that story. And that's part of the whole hatred for them because a lot of the rats that were my grandfather's case were not telling the truth. And years later it came out that they weren't telling the truth. And other rats told on them and they didn't use them because that would go against what the initial rat said. So it's a very tricky space, and I don't respect rats. Yeah, I'm actually surprised that the government never, maybe they didn't envision social media being a thing, but they never barred these individuals that have gotten these plea deals and get out of prison that were mob related.

And they talk about killing people and they build platforms. They brag about killing people. They wear, you know, clothes that brag about it. They go on podcasts talking about it. They brag about people they know and how they get out of crimes that they committed after. I mean, you have people that were informants, get out and then commit crimes, and then they're bragging about it. You have people that deny being informants, even though they testified against people or gave information against people, and are out here bragging and claiming all this stuff. But then when someone like myself wants to have a voice, it's hard to get it out there because all of these fake stories that were put out there.

They think it's the truth. The audience believes these people's stories. And a lot of times these guys were nowhere around the people that they talk about. So it's frustrating because someone like my grandfather who has dementia can't say, well, hey, I never met this guy in my life, but this guy has a 45-minute podcast telling a story about my grandfather when they were never in the same room. So it's very frustrating. And what I've realized, too, is that the ones that have, like, non-mob-related that haven't told or gotten plea deals and serve their time for murder and they'll come on and talk about are super remorseful, the ones that have caused harm or even death in some cases. Whereas the ones that have, you know, rat and gotten sweet plea deals and avoided years in prison don't really show remorse. Why would they have to? You know, they got away with everything that they did. They destroyed other people's lives, even if they weren't given correct information. Then they get a free pass and then they get to profit off of it. So it's sad to say in a way that this is the world that we live in. And these people are sometimes almost idolized in a way and people gather around to hear their stories. But they're fake. You might. might as well listen to a fiction tale. I mean, I might as well come on here and talk about,

you know, murder and stuff, things I know nothing about. It's the same thing, you know. So some of these people are bragging about terrible things they did. They don't show any remorse and they get to make money off of it. Where'd you grow up, Jackie? So I grew up, for the most part in Long Island, New York. I was born in Queens, lived in Long Island. I lived in Brooklyn a little bit. Came back and now I'm in Westchester, actually. And it's kind of funny because I definitely did not grow up around a lot of people that were in a similar situation to me. I'd like to say that I was in a very, you know, business class, you know, very like straight-edge neighborhood where people weren't going to jail for certain things. And it was very hard, I would say, as a kid, growing up in a space where when the newspaper,

put out certain articles and everything. Kids weren't allowed to go to your house. They weren't allowed to play with you. You were looked at in a certain light. It was definitely strange. I didn't grow up in like Brooklyn or Staten Island or places where a lot of families were going through the same thing. So it was a little tricky.

How old were you when you first caught on to the kind of weirdness of your life? So I would say around eight or nine years old. I was in elementary school. I think that walking home from school, seeing vans with like, FBI agents parked outside was definitely not something normal kids in my neighborhood dealt with. I would see my father with binoculars looking out the window and I would see like, you know, Gonzalez landscaping and there'd be three like white dudes sitting in the truck and I'd be like, well, that seems a little off. And it was always FBI agents surveilling or looking.

But it wasn't really until the FBI actually came to my house and arrested my father that I really caught on. And same thing. My grandfather, he was arrested around the same time, and it was on the front page of every newspaper. Every time I turn on the TV, I would see my grandfather getting arrested on the news. And, you know, it was definitely surreal. It was weird because you're like, that's not the guy. That's the best grandfather in the world. That's not the one that I'm having every Sunday dinner with who's, you know, taking me to the toy store or the park or, you know, so it's hard to see it through. a different lens, but that's kind of what happened at the age of nine. Going online without ExpressVPN is like not closing the door when you use a bathroom.

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Again, expressv-v-n.com slash locked in. When something like that happens, especially at that age, do you go to school the next day? Does life resume normally? How do the teachers and the kids react to you? So when 20 FBI cars came to my house that morning to take my father away, they, you know, come at 5.30 in the morning. We had to get ready for school, as usual. and my mom had to send us off to the bus stop.

And I remember just being like, what is going on, going outside, seeing all of my neighbors just staring and walking quietly to the bus stop and just going to school. You know, it's like you're, and I would talk to my sister like on the bus, what's going on? And she's like, I don't know. Mom said she'll pick us up later. Like, you know, it's just business as usual. Was your mom in the picture heavily? Like, were your parents together?

Yes, my parents are still together. So my parents have been married. I mean, my parents have been together since they're 16 years old. So I want to say my dad was probably in his early 30s when this started to happen. So, yeah, they've been together and she's been with him throughout this whole thing. You know, he had five kids, my dad. So I'm one of five. We had a large family and my grandfather had five kids too. So we have a lot of family involved here. Now your grandfather is your dad's dad or your mom? Okay. Yeah. So they, a lot of their charges were similar. My father, like, what happened was my grandfather was first given his charges. He was sent to trial. He was given a really harsh sentence. My dad was now facing charges on similar counts. You know, they, they hit my father with like four different indictments and multiple charges on it. So my dad knew that they were trying to do the same thing to my grandfather. to him that they did to my grandfather. So he took a first plea deal and got 10 years, and then he was facing life on the other three charges. Fortunately for us, the evidence that was withheld on my grandfather's case did come to light before my father's, and it showed that the government was corrupt in many ways. They withheld exculpatory evidence on my grandfather's case. One that showed the FBI was highly involved giving information to their top informant, which was getting

people killed. They were almost assisting him in this war that they blamed on my grandfather. So 19 men were acquitted on their charges based on this evidence that was brought to light that my grandfather never had the chance to show. When they tried to get a retrial for my grandfather, they said it wasn't new evidence. So if it got 19 other people acquitted and it was withheld from his case, how is the fact that the person killing hundreds of people working with the FBI not important enough to be presented. So that's part of my whole mission too. Not only was my grandfather not given a fair opportunity, but also the condition he's in, given that he's 91 years old, and this justice system is really supposed to be, people go to prison because they say it's for

reform, they're supposed to become better people. My grandfather's 91. He can't hurt anybody. He's not even the same person he was 34 years ago. He doesn't even know who he is, sometimes his own identity or his name. He doesn't know he's in prison someday. So for me, we're the only one serving the sentence now. And I'm really like starting to see the unfairness with elderly people in prison, but also people that never really get a chance to present all the evidence. From your lens as a child, what was it like for your mom when your daddy and your grandpa got arrested during that time period? As a kid, I didn't realize what she was going through, but now looking at it, I can't imagine

being a woman with five children, being in your young 30s, having everything just fall apart. She stayed so strong. It's like incredible. Now I look at her and I'm like, this woman's amazing. You know, she raised her children. She stuck by her husband. You know, she really kept everything together. So I think part of that is why I'm so level-headed.

as an adult now. But it's hard. My father was like my strength. You know, he's the man of the house. And I'm very, like, traditional that way, where I feel like the father plays such a major part and especially a young daughter's life, being that I had anxiety and panic attacks and phobias.

My dad was always the person that was like, it's okay. You know, everything's going to be okay. So when he was taken away, it just felt like it wasn't going to be okay. And I don't think it ever felt like it was going to be okay after. Would kids make fun of you at school after that? Not that they would make fun of me. I was pretty tough, but they would isolate you.

I feel that kids would talk shit behind your back. It would be like, don't play with them. Their father is in jail. I mean, I had a few situations where my younger siblings, my sister, for example, there was somebody that was saying not to play with her, not to invite her over. Her father was in jail. We were criminals. And I remember saying to her, like, mom told us never to talk about anyone's kids.

Like don't, you never know what's going to happen. And sure enough, the girl who was talking all that shit, her father ended up getting arrested for malpractice as a doctor. He killed somebody. So it's very important. I feel like for people not to judge, we all sin just differently. I think there was another situation where a kid told us he couldn't play with us and I watched him get arrested in high school. And I felt like saying to the mother, you never let your son hang out with us and look at him. You know, people judge people based on their family or the people around them and I just think that's wrong. You know, we were kids. We were innocent children and, you know, it sucked in a way to grow up that way. But it definitely made me tougher because I was going to defend

my siblings to the death. You know, I was very scrappy as a young girl because of it. I feel like you're still scrappy. When I have to be, I'm very nice. Don't get me wrong. But when I have to be, I'm always going to defend and stand up from my family. You know, I know what kind of people they are. You know, when you know someone's hard and you know that they're good people, it's hard not to. Did your dad and grandpa get bail at all, or was it straight, like no bail? I'm sorry, what did you say? Your dad and your grandpa, when they got arrested? Well, my father, the first time that they arrested him, he, you know, was let out on bail, and then immediately after they hit him with those other charges and they came back for him.

So that was short-lived. My grandfather, they were actually going to, and it was weird. He had something happened in the courthouse where they claimed that someone put a threat to the judge unrelated. It was some drug case or something they said, and they were going to give him bail. And then the judge came back three months later when it was resuming and changed his mind. So it seemed like somebody really got to him and put pressure on the judge. So he got arrested that day and never came home? Never came home. Wow. Yeah. When was the first time you visited your dad and your grandpa in prison? So immediately after they got arrested, you know, when you're awaiting the case, and everything. They keep you local. So I was visiting MDC in Brooklyn, MCC in Manhattan, Valhalla,

you know, they shipped them all over. A lot of those beginning years were spent in visiting rooms. So I think it was almost, it's sad to say it was normal going to visiting rooms. For me, with the anxiety, it was torture because I would go. You see the person you love so much, and then they kind of like rip them out. You have to watch them, depending where you are, in MDC, I remember they would kind of go into an area. You would see them through the glass, and then they would disappear. In MCC, they would be like in between two doors, and then you kind of had to like watch them cuff them and take them away. And it was really hard as a young girl to see that because I would cry the whole way home, you know? And it's like, how do you leave them there? You don't understand it. Did your parents explain to you what

prison was, why they were there, what was going on? I have to say they did, but as a young girl also, I mean, I had different disabilities like ADHD, all these things. A lot of verbal understanding didn't come easy to me. So my dad took me to a park. I'll never forget it, with my siblings, and it was a park we always used to go to. And he had the ankle bracelet on. It was before they were taking him back in and he kind of had a talk and had to explain that like he's going in it's going to be for a longer time and it could be life you know and I didn't understand it I was like no dad you're going to come home just like you did last time like you just got back home and it's okay and he's like no and I just couldn't accept it you know I couldn't take that as an answer and I remember I would

go home and I had like all my little religious statues and I would put them under my bunk bed And I'd pray to them and I'd be like, just please bring my grandfather home. Like, you could take me. I don't care. Like, I would try to make deals with like little statues because I didn't comprehend it. I didn't understand it. And I did take it very personally, you know. It's interesting.

There would probably be kids in your class. I had no idea this is how you might have been spending your weekends or, you know, they're going to birthday parties and I'm going to visiting rooms. So, yes, it was definitely different than what other kids were experiencing, to say the least. Were you watching the other inmates there? Were you paying attention to the guards? Always. So it's funny because me and my brother,

we would always want to go to the snack machine before my dad came and try to get the good snacks for him. And I remember the guards were actually mean sometimes. Like they would try to say things to piss us off. I remember one would say like, Hey, kid, you know, Columbus didn't discover America, like thinking I cared because I was Italian, you know? And I was like, all right, dude, cool, like cool story.

and they would say like different things to us to almost trigger us. I mean, my brother would laugh. We'd be like, these guys are so dumb, you know. Or they would like, you know, hum the godfather theme song or something. It would be like, what is that song? You know, and it takes you to get older to realize, like, what they were doing. But there was a lot of jerks in there, I would say. Even visiting my grandfather more recently, there was a guard that I kept calling

because I didn't hear from my grandfather in weeks and being his dementia and heart failure. I was afraid something happened. And I'm like, could someone just please give me, like, a health status or whatever? And the guy was like, you called us 100 times. I can't tell you anything. You have to remember he's a prisoner. And I'm like, he's also a human, you know, who has a family. And I hope that your mother never gets dementia, you know?

Like, these people don't understand. They don't make you to be a human sometimes, which is kind of messed up. Now, your dad, did he end up getting life or did you get a shorter sentence? What happened? Thank God. My dad took the first plea and then he did. His trial came and he was actually acquitted on all of the charges that were related to my grandfather's case because of the evidence that was withheld from my grandfather. Like I said, got 19 other people out.

So all of the corruption was the cause of my dad to get acquitted. He did still have to serve that time. So my father got out when I was 19, but they also, part of his plea was that he was banished from the state of New York. Wait, banished? Banished from New York. He can't live in New York. He wasn't even allowed to step foot in New York for 11 years. It was very crazy. Wow. Is your dad still alive now? Yes, he is. So he's still not allowed in New York? Well, now the 11 years passed. He could come back to New York, but he started a life for himself elsewhere. That's crazy.

Yeah. So do you think, because we have a lot of people that have children that grow up through their teenage years without their parent because they're in prison, what was that like for your perspective? Do you feel like that affected you not having your dad around for those crucial teenage years? I think it was terrible, to be honest. I mean, I think my father was always my security, my safety. I think for young women, too, you sometimes go through stages where you bump heads with your mother. It's like, you know, puberty and hormones and whatever. And I think not having a father figure around physically definitely made it a lot harder.

I got into trouble for a while in school. You know, back then, too, you have to understand, like, I was saying that I had learning disabilities. I wasn't diagnosed with certain things back then. They just said, oh, she's problematic because of what she goes through at home. So they would stick me in a psychologist chair. And I was always raised, like, don't tell people your business. that goes on at home because it's your home life, you know? So I would sit with a psychologist and she would ask me weird questions about my father and I would be like, why is she being nosy? Like, what is this? And I would

lie to her, you know, so it wasn't even helping me. She would say, oh, so you had dinner with your dad last night? And I'd be like, yeah, why? What does your dad do for work? And I'd be like, he goes to his office. Why? And I would always think like these people were trying to be like out to get me, you know, so I never got like any help in that space. So I did have learning. So I did have learning. disabilities. I had bad ADHD. I couldn't really retain stuff. So instead, I would just act out in school or I would cut class or I wouldn't show up and it affected me greatly. You know, and I think if I had the support at home and, you know, my mom wasn't so stressed out raising five kids by herself, maybe things would have been different. But I also look at it like if I didn't go through what

I went through, maybe I wouldn't be as strong as I am today. Maybe I wouldn't be as independent. Maybe it would have stopped me from building my own business or doing certain things. So you always could say, shoulda, coulda, woulda. But now it's like, how can I take this hurt and help other people? You know, I want to help my grandfather, but I also want to be a voice for other people. You know, there are kids that are victims. There's elderly people that are victims. There's people that are incarcerated that don't know how to get out or don't know how to fix, you know, their situation.

So I'm also out there trying to figure out how I can help other people. Do you think that your dad was a good parent while he was in prison? I want to say that my father, I have to say, is probably my favorite person in the world. It's hard parenting over the phone, but when I would talk to him, he was always very level-headed, try to talk me out of anything I was going through, try to help. It's hard with like a 10-minute phone call when you have to split it up between five kids. But he definitely did the best he can. And I want to say even today, he's like the one person I call and talk every problem through it.

blessed that I have him. But yes, I think it sucked that he wasn't there, but I do think that given the circumstance, you make the most out of it. Did you ever hold a resentment for missing some of maybe your crucial high school events, sports games, dances, proms? I have to say, when I had my Sweet 16 and all of the other girls, like, gave their speech and had a dance with their dad and whatever, it was a little hard because I gave him a candle and people didn't know, like, you know, maybe they did know, but I had to like speak about him as if he wasn't there. So I don't know if they knew the situation. It was almost like, is he here? Is he on this earth? They didn't know. So some of those moments were hard, you know. You want your dad there. You want your dad to be

proud of you or whatever. But again, I think that it made me who I am. Do you think I kind of lightened the blow on you because social media didn't exist back then? Do you think it would have been worse if there were social media to go through that? I think 100%. I don't know how people go through normal life sometimes with social media. I mean, I see it being in the beauty industry. Girls rip themselves apart. Guys, I mean, they see what other people have. It's always a comparison. So in the space of someone being incarcerated and people spreading more news and whatever, you had your news outlets then, but it wasn't as crazy as it is now. I think it would have been a lot harder. Yeah, I can't imagine. But it also could have been easier because a lot of

of the injustice that's out there and nobody knows about. You tell these stories, you could watch people tell their version of it now, but back then had more people known about the government corruption or stories like that circulated because I feel like the FBI had such control of the narrative that was put out in the media that now normal people's voices, it's almost more normal for people to speak their truth,

where then you couldn't talk about anything. It's automatically considered like ratting or, you know, you know, whatever. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The Four Seasons is back for season two, starring Tina Faye, Will Forte, Coleman Domingo, Marco Calvani, Carrie Kenny Silver, and Erica Henningson.

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A perfect example is the Epstein thing where it came undone that he got the sweetest plea deal ever back in Florida years ago and got house arrest when he had the same charges that he was convicted of. You know, they hide a lot of things. There's a lot of informants that were serious people, that hurt a lot of people that got very, light sentences. I think that if more people were aware of what was going on, that it probably would have changed their perspective. And more people might have been open to looking at my grandfather's case or other things. That's why I'm doing this now. I'm hoping that people could see that other side. But yeah, maybe it would have came out sooner. How long do you think it took for you as a kid for that identity to go away that you were the kid who had family members in prison? I'm going to be honest. I don't think it really ever went away. I don't think it really went away.

I think that I spent most of my 20s trying to get my own identity away from it. It was always like, oh, she's a troubled kid. It's because of how she grew up. It's her family. She's not good in school. She has behavioral issues. She's getting into fights. She's doing this.

She's doing that. Then I said, okay, I was always a failure at everything school-wise. I said, what do I like doing? I got a job right out of high school where I was making good money for somebody that wasn't in college or whatever. And I hated my job. Every single day I woke up, I would have like a nightmare about a work day. I hated it.

So I'm like, what do I enjoy? Makeup, right? I liked makeup, beauty stuff. I wanted to go to makeup designer in New York City. It was expensive. It was hard to get to. I was working two jobs at the time. It was a dream of mine.

I somehow made it happen. And I went. And for the first time in my life, it was like graduation day. And they were like, we have to pretty. present one of the students with an award for having the perfect score and being such a team player and whatever. And I'm like, who is this nerd? And they were like, Jackie Arena come up. And for a minute, I stopped and I almost felt emotional. And I'm like, I was the top of my class. I was good at something. Like, oh my God. And it kind of changed my, I want to say, like, my self-esteem in a way,

because I would always be like, I'm not smart enough. I have disabilities. I'm not. So for the first time in my life, I had the ability to say, I could do this. And then my career kind of skyrocketed. I started managing a med spa. I got great experience running someone else's business and then had the courage to build my own. So I think a lot of those things, through the course of that, people would remind me who I was. I would get like a really big wedding deal. I'd show up and they'd be like, are you arena, the same one that's related to vicarina. And I'm like, you know, you never know if it's a negative or positive. So I was kind of trying to push that away and focus on what I had to.

And then when I noticed that my grandfather started to decline and he needed me more than ever, I said, you know what, this is the name that I was born into. This was the life I was given. This was my path. And as much good as I could do, I can't ever turn my back on my family. and I have to fight for him and I have to fight for what's right. So it's been like this, a roller coaster. And yeah, I don't think it ever changed. It was almost like, now I have to just embrace it. Tell us about that evolution of seeing your grandfather in prison from a nine-year-old girl all the way to present day. I mean, going there, I don't know how often you went in the beginning and just like how that evolved. So my grandfather was one of the sharpest men. I mean, his personality, his, the home videos, he's even, he's funny, he's just with it. Very smart, intellectual man. Dress very well, very sharp, put together. To watch a man decline over the years with his dementia and diabetes and all of these ailments, I mean, he had a pacemaker put in in prison. He had COVID and nearly died. I mean,

you're talking about a man who's, you know, 91 years old. So to watch him from his 50s to, you know, like when he first got in trouble to the condition he's in now where he's in a wheelchair, he cannot see. Like he's, you have to feed him. He needs help going to the bathroom. He can't even pick up a phone, brush his teeth, dial a number by himself. It's very hard to see. And over the years of them just saying no to everything we were trying to do. My whole family was trying to fight. to get everything looked at again. Every time they said no, at first I'd get really upset, and now I'm like, how do I push harder? How do I fight harder? I think it's just, it's hard to watch someone decline like that. For me, it's just, I don't think anybody in this world would look at him in the condition he's in and say, you know what, this man deserves to be in jail.

And I don't think that it's so much to ask for a man in his condition to just come home to maybe spend one more Sunday dinner with his family, family to like let us give him the love, you know, that he gave us, cook for him, do things that he's always done to take care of us. We just want to be able to not get a call that he died alone in a cell. Do you think your grandfather has been able to find redemption throughout his journey in prison? I think that my grandfather is, I want to say in the 34 years that he's been away. I mean, he's never had any issues there. He's never caused any trouble.

He's been on his best behavior. He became a Eucharistic minister that hands out hosts. He's joined different groups and helped out. And he was like a mentor for young inmates trying to get them out of prison and stay out of that space. I think my grandfather is a great man. I think that a lot of it's overlooked by the stories that were put out about him. My family never told their version. My grandfather never did.

my father never did. So I feel like sometimes it's up to me to show that side of him. But do I think there's, you know, redemption or what I think that he's somebody that doesn't deserve to be in jail? What's that mental toll for you, someone going very often to visit both your dad and then your grandfather even continuously to this day, you know, visit after visit. You're seeing the same scenery, you know, the same people and you're seeing someone that's just kind of stuck there. What's that? like it's hard because you watch you almost observe everybody else i would look at families and i would see like wives crying and kids crying and i would see them like before they went into the visit falling apart and then you would see them you know strong in the visit and then falling apart after and

you know you're seeing as a young kid observing everyone around you um it's hard it's hard and then you have to go home and deal with your own pain you know um it's very difficult i would say it's got to be mentally draining too, just being there for hours and then walking out of there and kind of processing. Visiting my grandfather, I want to say lately, like even six years ago, I think, was so hard because I would go all the way to Massachusetts, where he is. And the visits from like eight to three, right? It's too many hours for a man in his condition. They have to prep to bring him down. They need to assist him on the way down. There has to be someone to help him. It's a lot of work for the prison and it's a lot of work for the person visiting him. You know, I have to like feed him,

wipe him, whatever, if he has to go to the bathroom, he needs assistance. So he started asking me not to visit because he doesn't want me to see him in that condition. And he keeps saying like, you know, I'll say, do you want me to come visit? And he's like, no, I'm coming home from the hospital. He doesn't even know he's in jail sometimes. And some people think that's a good thing, but for me, I'm getting the phone call going, why can't you pick me up today? Can you come get me? and it's heartbreaking because you're speaking to someone that's at the mental capacity of a small child and it's reminding me of the nine-year-old that needed somebody. You know, you know how, like how much anxiety it is when you're an elderly person that doesn't know where they are,

doesn't know why they're there, doesn't know why they can't see their family or can't get help. It's, it's hard, you know, and I just want to take them like a child and bring them home. So it's very difficult and it's very, it takes a toll on you for sure. What year in a sentence do you think it really impacted him the most, like the decline? I would say, I don't know, because, you know, when you hear certain stories, I'll hear like a podcast where someone's like, I was locked up with him, I was his cellmate. He got three life sentences turned around and started playing a game of cards. So you're like, you know what? He's so strong and resilient that he just went on about his business.

And I think the family were the ones that were home, like crying their eyes out and dealing with it. when you see like people tell stories about that, I think it didn't really become so difficult until he didn't understand what was going on. I think now for me is the hardest. For him, it's probably the hardest as well. Do you think out of your family you've been hit the hardest with us aside from him? I want to say we have a huge family. Everybody has been affected. I think people deal with things differently. I have a lot of family members that have been, you know, everyone's negatively impacted by it. I think at this stage now, a lot of people have been dealing with it for the 30 years, maybe gave up hope. I know from my dad, he's been hit with, you know, his own charges and he knows how hard it could be to fight the government. He knows how, you know, unfair it is. He knows that the justice system sucks. So for him, it seems like a losing battle. For me, it seems like you talk to people in reform and I have more hope because I see other people getting out. So I feel like it's just at this point and stage

of my life. I was willing to take it on. Nobody else really wants to talk about it publicly, but I think we're all hurt and affected, you know, just as badly, just show it differently. Why do you think it is such a taboo topic? Well, you know, you put your story out there and people are so used to the narrative that's out there, so they have their opinion already formed, you know, and some people will write terrible things to me like, well, I'm sure your grandfather did something if he's there. I mean, at the end of the day, there's so much corruption behind the case, right? And you have the government that is highly guilty of some of the crimes that they're putting people away for. That's not justice. You know, justice is not just, okay, you give somebody a sentence that's, you know, 80% more cruel

than anybody else that committed those crimes. And, you know, we're making an example out of him. It has to be fair across the board. And if the FBI is guilty of crimes, they should be tried as well. They brush their crimes under the rug and then they want to make my grandfather out to be this terrible person. I think it just needs to be more balanced. I think we should be able to talk about all of the things that got these other men acquitted. I think that we should be able to talk about the loads of evidence that came out after the fact, but they purposely just deny it and don't give us the opportunity to present the truth. to me, that's not fair. That's not justice. We want to talk about a justice system that's supposed

to show compassion. But then we have elderly people dying in jail who have families that could take care of them, that taxpayers don't have to pay to keep them with, you know, all these medications and surgeries and, you know, all this aid. So it's, it's a, it's really difficult. I keep saying that. I'm repeating myself, but there's so many angles here. It's hard to even get it all in one sitting. I could do all these podcasts and you're missing so many points of it. It's the corruption. It's his age. It's, you know, getting the truth out there. It's everybody that doesn't have a voice in prison. It's, you know, how do people get their story told? You know, you hear stories about, you know, people getting clemency and all of this stuff and how many millions of dollars it takes for their story to be told. So what do people like me do and you don't have money to pay people off? Or you don't have, you know, a TV show that wants to hear your story or, you know, you're depending on normal people that are going through their everyday stuff to say, wait, why is this man away so long? What is the truth? What's going on?

When you're on, or when you are on visits, visiting him, do you connect with other women or, you know, family members that have a relative, maybe someone that's similar in age and are going through the same situation? You guys, like, form a bond? I have to say like even visiting my grandfather, you know, a few years back, a lot of the women that I connected with in the waiting room, it's kind of crazy because you're not allowed to bring your phone in. You're not allowed to bring paper or whatever. So I would be like shouting my Instagram name at people. I'm like, Jackie O, find me on Instagram. And we would connect to either have like a dinner or have somebody to like, you know, be with when you go on a visit. And they've put me in touch with a lot of people that ended up being involved. in reform groups and connecting dots. And to me, I'm like, that's like a higher power there. That's God like connecting me to the right people. And it's almost launched me in the space of doing podcast. And then someone will see me on a podcast and tell me they have information for me or they've been through it or their grandfather was involved in my grandfather's case or, you know, they have 302s or

things that can help me. So it's been really nice actually because there's a community of people that I've bonded with outside of just visiting rooms. You know, it was definitely one of those things where you grow up in a neighborhood. There's not a lot of people that are similar to me, but when you would go to a visiting room, you're seeing kids visiting their parents. It makes it seem a little more normal. You have like a support group, but then you go back home and you're back with your community, and it's you're back at where you are. Yeah, it's interesting to see how incarceration, you know, rips so much apart, but it also brings unlikely bonds together, and we see that a lot on the show and how people can connect and bond over something that's so traumatizing and devastating.

Yeah. And it brings people closer together. Well, I think one of the interesting things is people don't realize that, you know, incarceration impacts so many more people than you think. You know, you and I could be in a room and I could not know anything about you and think this guy knows nothing about incarceration. This doesn't affect his life. And you could be looking at me saying, you know, she has no idea.

you don't know what everyone's struggle is. You don't realize how many people, I think they say it's like one and four people are affected by incarceration, whether it's a friend, a coworker, a family member, a loved one. Everybody has a similar bond and it's more important for us to connect on what we share as far as, you know, whether it's pain or coming together than it is about shunning people out and judging them based on what they did. You know, like I said before, you know, it's like, everybody sins just differently. So we all have a different circumstance and a different story. And I think part of getting involved in this, the togetherness of it and going to an event and having a table full of women that don't necessarily look like me, but we have a bond in a sisterhood or even a brotherhood with somebody that is tied because of some of this pain that we've been through. What do you think was your biggest change in your thoughts about prison when you were nine versus now when you visit prisons now at your age now? I think that when you're nine, you just see a visiting room and it looks like, you know, a nice clean space and it's fine. It's like, okay, it's like a cafeteria. Then you see it on TV and you see like these cells and it looks very sad. I think for a kid, you picture your loved one being in a cell like all alone in the dark and not having friends. or people to talk to.

So I think as a kid, I used to think like they were being tortured in there or suffering. And then you hear that they had friendships and people that they were playing cards with or doing things with. And you look at a little bit differently. I think now it's back to a space where I hear from people that my grandfather's in such a bad condition, but he's in a separate wing or he's by himself. It makes me worry even more because he'll tell me like, oh, I'm in a room. They left me here for six hours.

You know, I haven't moved. My legs hurt. So you don't know what's going on. So now I'm back to being. You thought this was your run club era. Turns out it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start.

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but how do they treat you now? I'm going to be honest. The same guard that told me to stop calling about my grandfather's condition. When I went into a visit, my grandfather put his arm on the chair. And the guy came over and he was like, get your arm off. And I'm like, there's people across literally laying on each other hugging. This 91-year-old man has his arm on the chair and the guy just wanted to make an example out of him.

So it's just give or take. And then there's some guards that are so nice. Like this woman was saying to me, like, just sit with him until we could get someone to bring him up and I got to stand with him. So it depends. It depends on who you get, you know. I've called and I've had people who show compassion and that like I understand, you know, he's in this condition.

you know, I promise he's okay. And then you have someone that's like, stop calling. I can't give you an update. You're just a number. Now, you've seen your grandfather age overtime by visiting him. Do you also see guards and people that work there regularly kind of age overtime and evolve? You know what? I have to say, they've moved them around so much that I didn't really get like that whole, you know, my grandfather when I was young was still in New York. He was shipped to Atlanta, he was in Florida, he was all over the place. My father, I mean, he was, when he was going through his trial, they had him local, but then they moved him to like Leavenworth, Kansas, you know? So for me, I didn't even get to see my father that whole time because I was terrified of flying.

I couldn't get on a plane. I had severe panic disorder. I refused to take medication for it at the time because I was afraid of medication, believe it or not. So I went from like 14 to 19 years old, not even seeing my father. So as far as the people changing, it's always been a new cast every time. What do you think your grandfather has missed the most if he's expressed that to you at all? My, like I have to say my grandfather was all about family. When he was home, I mean, we did Sunday dinners together. You know, we would go to the beach together and like, you know, we can getaways and stuff like that. He was very big into family. Every high. holiday we had to do together. So I think family, I think what he misses most is us cooking together,

being together, spending time, because that was so important to him. And when he went away, it kind of felt like, you know, that was taken from us. So I definitely would say that the most. Are you allowed to bring him meals at all like back in the day? I know now they don't have that. No. But back then, did they have, have the rules changed at all? No, I think with the federal prisons, it was very strict. You were never bringing anything in. there was never, we never got anything like that. And depending on the prison, too, I mean, some prisons you go in, you're allowed to hug them and then you have to sit away. Others, they would have to sit across the table, some there behind glass, you know, so it was always different.

Yeah, because I've talked to guys from the state. There's a whole different ballgame. In New York, they got trailers for the weekend. Even that makes you feel a little bit. I know. At least you have like a little bit of, you know, normalcy. But yeah, it's very strange to not be able to hug your father or your grandfather, not to be able to just lean on them if you want to. You know, I feel like that's something that could be done better. A lot of these prisons had like outdoor space. Like, why not let them play catch with their kids or do something? You know, I feel like that was a very cold, weird space too.

And it added to the anxiety of it. Also in the federal system, the seating's very weird. At least this facility as I was in, you're facing forward. So like you have to sit in these chairs facing forward kind of and you have to angle your body. There was no tables until I got to the camp. Then there was like a picnic table to sit outside, but that was just at the camp. Yeah. A lot of those places were like that you would sit in a row next to each other in some of them.

And then the seats across were for like other people. Some of them you did get to like kind of sit in like clusters, I would say. So it wasn't terrible. You could at least face them. But it depends on where you are. When you're nine years old and you're told that you're someone very dear to your heart is serving life in prison, how do you react to that? And how do you take that in? What do you think about?

I'm going to be honest. I was, it was really difficult to process. You know, you don't understand. You know, I think as a kid, you're like, no, something's going to change. Like I said, I would pray every day. Like, God, please make something happen. Please bring him home. I'll give you anything.

I'll do anything. and I would like sacrifice things as a kid and not do certain things. I became like I would have OCD. Like if I didn't do something, he would never come home. Like I blamed myself a lot of the times and it's so crazy to think of now. I wish I could like, you know, that's why I think I want to help kids too because I'm like, they don't understand it. They can't grasp it.

But it is like a very hard thing to process. Do you think regardless of what someone was accused of doing or convicted of, there becomes a certain point? in their sentence, say they've served 30 years and they're 90 years old, that they should be able to have a shot at freedom? I think everybody should have a chance to a fair trial. I think that if there is evidence that was withheld by prosecutors, you definitely should be able to get a retrial. They never gave them one. I think that if you're 90 years old and you're a man that's in, man or a woman that's in poor health, I think we should have compassion. I mean, we have compassion for, people that do terrible crimes. You know, you have the same judge that's going to look at somebody like my grandfather and give him three life sentences and then deny his compassionate release. That's the same judge that looked at an informant that admitted to killing 20 people. And he says, you know what,

you get five years. So make it make sense. You know, why do we show compassion for somebody and say, oh, we'll give him a second chance. We'll do this. Oh, he's giving a little. We could use him to get other people in jail, but then not have a heart when it comes to someone who's dying in prison. And I don't think anybody that has dementia that's in a wheelchair that has terminal cancer that has an illness like that should die like an animal. You know, it's not right. When I was in prison and I would view the older gentleman that would, you know, be pushing the walkers or in a wheelchair with like oxygen. You know, if you have a heart, you kind of feel for them. And I didn't even know their crimes, you just see that, you know, occurring and happening and, you know, you feel bad for them.

Prison's no place to be at that age and in that. Prisons really no place for anybody. I mean, it's difficult enough when you commit a crime. And I think a lot of people go to jail and they never want to be in trouble again. I do think that there's a lot of people that even doing a 10-year sentence never want to commit a crime again. I mean, my father did his time and he lives a normal life now, right? There are people. that once they face that, they want to live a normal good life, right? So with somebody who served 35 years, never got in trouble again, or even if there's somebody that has been on their best behavior and really is showing reform and is doing a lot of things for community. And I think

we need to do a better job at reform and letting people out and re-looking at their sentencing and looking at their cases. I think that there's a lot of money that's spent on keeping people incarcerated, rather than building them up, helping them. And then, you know, you have people that are incarcerated that get out and they just throw them to the, you know, the street, like to not have a way to make money or survive. And then, you know, I just feel like there's a better way to handle it. And I feel like whether it's sick people, we need to have a heart for people that, what, made a mistake?

What are we going to do? Like, crucify people for every crime across the board. And especially in the situation where you have elderly people. that were put in prison. And it's not just my grandfather. There were a lot of men that went to prison during that time based on false evidence. There were a lot of people that were put in jail and not given the chance to present exculpatory evidence that was withheld. And these people are still in jail, too. You know, it's not just because he's elderly. There's people that shouldn't be there. Now, 34 years is a long time. Are the people still even around from that original case,

like the agents, the law enforcement, even the judge? Yes. So the, the original, judge in my grandfather's case did pass away, but he would not give up the bench. I think he was like 99 or 100 years old. The prosecutors that withheld evidence got to climb the ranks. They were the same prosecutors in the Eastern District that, you know, were going after Trump and were involved in a lot of shady cases. I think that now is the time that they're going to start to investigate some of those people, and I'm very hopeful. The problem is my grandfather doesn't have enough time to wait for them to unravel the truth behind all of this. There's a lot of shady stuff that went on in the Eastern District. And it sucks to say, but it's within the judges,

the prosecutors. And you know what? They would almost like use these cases as like an alley-oop, and they would climb the ranks together and grow in their field and, you know, climb the ladder because they were prosecuting people and getting a victory. And it's not right when you're wrongly prosecuting people. It's not right when they don't have a fair retrial or the evidence is withheld. So there's a lot that goes on, you know, with all of this. This is such a big part of your life now. Have you thought about what the future is going to look like once this is all over with, whether it's a positive outcome or a negative outcome? I'm going to be honest. Sometimes I don't know if it's like my ADHD that has me like hyperfocused on this or if it's just that it got to

the point where the injustice is so loud. It's like all I hear. I mean, I dream about it at night. I'm reading through cases. I'm reading through evidence. I'm reading through, you know, books and stories that people told. I'm reading through other things that other informants told that went against what the FBI put out there. And it's hard because you become obsessed with it. And then at the same time, I have my grandfather calling me. And, you know, it becomes less and less. and I know there's going to be a day that he forgets me or forgets to call. Or I'm afraid that I'm going to get bad news one day. And I'm just every day, I'm like, I have to keep going until something happens.

But I think the bigger picture for me is if I could have success with my grandfather, I don't want other people to give up on their family members. I want them to fight, whether it takes six months or 34 years. I just think that we owe it to them. I mean, I'm here. I exist because of my grandfather. And if somebody with dementia loses their voice, who's going to speak for them? I want other people to be encouraged by it. I want to help them. I want to try to be a voice for others. And maybe even if it's one more person, even if I could help my grandfather, whatever it is, I just think it put a little more of a purpose in me. Do you see this

evolving into further advocacy work? I would love that, to be honest. I would love that. I mean, the more I get involved. I started with the Italian American Civil Rights League. We do a lot of giving back. I go into communities. We give backpacks to children, help them with sports programs. There's a lot of women's group. I donate clothes to women in shelters. It's not just about incarceration. It kind of opened the door to try to be a better person, and it's very rewarding. But in this space, too, there's so many children that are affected that I can relate to. There's elderly people. There's men that are stuck in prison that no one's hearing their story that I can relate to. I don't know exactly where I'm going to fit in there, but I would absolutely, if I could be successful with my grandfather, once I am,

I would absolutely make that promise to help others however I can. Now, I believe that everyone that goes down a certain path in life or goes down a journey or has a mission, a lesson is brought from that journey or mission, what do you think your lesson is that you've learned from this path you've decided to take and have endured since you were a young kid? I'm going to be honest. Like I said, I'm trying to figure that out now. I know that every pain has a purpose. I've connected with so many great people.

I think that the ability to have a voice, even going on this podcast, if I could help one person or, you know, I don't know. I don't really know for sure, but I've uncovered a lot of things about myself, and I know that I want to help others. So I'm not really sure where that's going to lead me, but I think all of my pain I'm trying to turn into a positive. What advice would you give to someone that has a loved one that's incarcerated currently, especially, you know, given that the holiday season's upcoming? Well, I would say for one, never give up. I would say for two, make sure you give them all the support that you can. I think that we get so caught up in our outside life and, you know, visits could become less. I think, you know, reaching out, communicating with them can become less.

I think that fighting for them, supporting them any way you can, never giving up on them, like I said, and just being proud of them. You know, they're still the same family member that you love, that showed you love, that did everything for you. You can't turn your back on them. You know, I can honestly see you starting some type of program that helps, you know, children that are dealing with incarcerated parents or siblings. Well, I love children. I have six nieces and nephews. They're my world. There's such a nice innocence with children and knowing that I was lacking such support there, not to the fault of anybody, but no one really knew how to target a child and how they deal with it. There's people that say tell them less. There's people that say tell them more. I think just showing them that

they're not alone and bringing community to them because there's a lot of kids that don't have it. Not everybody grows up in a neighborhood that has four or five families on the block that were incarcerated. Some people have, you know, where it's one-off and people look down on them and shut them out. And I think bringing community and showing that, you know, we all have similarities no matter what our outside looks like is very important. Well, Jackie, I appreciate you coming on the show and I appreciate your friendship. Thank you so much for having me and you're the best. Of course. Thank you.