Locked In with Ian Bick - Preacher’s Son Joins A PRISON GANG | Jumpsuit Pablo

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

Born Paul White and given the nickname Jumpsuit Pablo in prison,  Paul goes from preacher’s son to a prison gang member by the time he’s 22 years old. In this episode we hear how Jumpsuit first got involved in crime, what it was like to spend a decade in a South Carolina state prison and how he was able to turn it into a social media persona. Connect with Jumpsuit Pablo:https://youtube.com/@jumpsuitpablohttps://www.tiktok.com/@jumpsuitpablo?_t=8d59MrXzs3K&_r=1https://instagram.com/jumpsuitpablo?igshid=MmIzYWVlNDQ5Yg== Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com/Subscribe to our membership program on YouTube to get early access to interviews, see behind the scenes photos & more:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvVklIft6DMelVW18M0oBw/joinPowered by Q29 Productions, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We are back with another episode of Locked In with Ian Bick. On today's episode, I interviewed Jump Suit Pablo, who spent a decade in a South Carolina state prison after getting caught for armed robberies. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the show,

and thank you guys for tuning in to Lockton with Ian Bucing. Bick. Jump suit Pablo, man. Welcome to the show. I remember you were like one of the first creators I hit up when I was starting this podcast back in like January and you're on probation at the time and now you didn't even realize you got off probation. Yeah, I've been off been off for about half a year and didn't even know it. But it's great to finally have you on the show. I remember first stumbling across you doing prison skits. Like the very first video I saw of you on TikTok was like it had like over a million views of you in an orange.

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Now I have to ask, is Jump Suit Pablo your real name? Or what is your real name? Yes, first name, jumpsuit, last name Pablo. No, man. Real name's Paul. Just chose Pablo as a pseudonym for when I was locked up and kind of on Facebook and stuff while I was in prison on a contraband phone. You don't want to use your real name.

They'll find you pretty easy. So I just went with Pablo and I was in a jumpsuit. So there you have Jump Suit Pablo. Honestly, that's a better name on an ID than Mcloven. I mean, everyone calls me Mcloven. But the Jump Suit Pablo one's great. Yeah, yeah. All right, so let's get into it.

Let's start at the beginning. Where are you from? How did you grow up? What's your family like? Well, I'm from right by Greenville, South Carolina. It's pretty well known, but a little small town called Greer. Growing up, my dad, he was a preacher. So we were kind of just the preacher's family.

you know southern baptist classic preachers family um pretty sheltered pretty kept away from any type of trouble you know so um i guess just once i got to that age where you can kind of do what you want to do uh the other side of it just was just too fun you know and i kind of got into the party in and all that stuff so that's where it started did you have siblings or anything like you yeah i got three sisters they're all older than me. I'm the only boy. Yeah, but they're all law followers. And did you grow up lower class, middle class, upper class? What would you describe like your family? I guess middle for the south, for like the small town south, maybe middle class, you know, something like that. So what do you think like started you kind of breaking away from like your family roots and getting involved with like hanging around people?

Maybe you shouldn't have been around and following down a different. path and what's way different than what your parents raise you to become. Well, you know, I mean growing up like that, you kind of got to fit the image of the preacher's family when you're a kid and just once I got to the age where, you know, I'm in high school, I can party, I can go to parties, things like that. I mean, it's just fun, just the whole social thing because we didn't really get to be around people when I was a kid. I couldn't have people over, couldn't go to people's house, you know, so it was just real strict. So, I mean, when I started like partying and going out, hanging around a bunch of people. That was fun. Started smoking weed, you know, drinking the

classic stuff. That was one thing. I guess that was the first step. But I mean, it started going bad when I started listening to Waka Flaka and Gucci Man. That's what I'm telling you. I heard that. Somebody played that and I heard it. And I was like, man, what is this? It just like turned me up. What was it about that music? I don't know. It just, just I just heard it. It just made me want to turn up for no reason. And I was like, man, I want to kick doors too.

I want to put goons on your mama too. And so. Do you think it was like similar to how kids feel like in this day and age with, because this is, we're talking like 12, 15 years ago for you. Yeah. So do you think it's like similar to like kids playing like Grand Theft Auto and those violent games now?

Is there truth behind that? And like they see those types of things or listen to that type of music? Well, I definitely don't want. want to say like because I listened to rap music, that's why I did what I did and that's why I went to prison. You know, it's not, I mean, because plenty of people listen to it and don't do it. I mean, that's me just being stupid and just easily influenced by stuff that, you know, I don't, I don't know. I just thought it was cool and just thought it was fun, a thrill. It was also very different from where you came from. I wonder if it was like a mixture of being

raised in a strict family. Yeah, I feel like it was like, you know, something along those lines. Just having a taste and it's just like you want more and more and more. And just like how far can I go? And just you just get carried away into something that you're really not, you know. And that's kind of what it was. But I just went too far with it. Now in high school, you're partying, smoking weed.

Are you doing any other types of drugs? Yeah. I mean, yeah, you might do a little acid, a e-pill, a X, something, you know, here and there. I mean, whatever. You're dabbling and everything. Yeah, I mean, just a little, you know, whatever's going around, whatever comes your way. What year is this to put it into perspective? Well, I mean, it was, I started smoking weed when I was like 16, which for a lot of people, that's pretty late, you know, from who I've talked to.

But that's like, what, early 2000s or? Yeah, like 2010, 2009, something like that. Okay, and how old are you now today? Right now I'm third. I just turned 31. Oh, happy, very first. at the. Thanks. That's awesome. All right. So you're smoking in high school, not really getting into too much crime. What's like the first crime you commit? Like when's like that turning point? Probably shoplifting.

I mean, just stealing. You know, I feel like that's how everybody starts just grabbing a snicker bar from the gas station. I remember I stole a pack of gum and a pack of water balloons when I was like a little kid. Water balloons? Yeah, because like my parents wouldn't get it for me and I just grabbed it off the shell. I got to have these water balloons. Yeah, I just snatched that shit up and I took it and it was like a high. I don't know. Like you said, every kid does it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But how does that propel?

Like, eventually you get caught up with armed robbery. So how do you go from a petty shoplifting crime to by the time you're 21, 22, you're going away for 10 years in prison? I feel like it was, you know, to be honest, I feel like it was this thing where, you know, I started, it started with just getting drunk and maybe having some backyard bites, you know, we're in the south. You know, we're fighting in the backyard for fun, our buddies, and just, like, if you went, like, I don't know, like, you know, the more fights you get in, it's just like, it's like I liked that rush, you know, and I guess it kind of started with that. And I was like, man, I want to see how bad I can really be, you know, not in like, looking back as an adult, I'm like, you wasn't shit. But, you know, I guess it kind of started from there, you know, and I just kept taking it further. now I'm like, you know, I don't know. I mean, the truth is I don't, I hate when people ask me that because I just don't have a good answer.

I don't have any answer that really excuses it or makes a lot of sense or just anything. I just think I was just lost and just fucking trying to find yourself. Just got carried away with some shit, just living some shit that I just shouldn't even been doing. Now, is your dad like paying attention to what you're doing? Because he had clearly like a very strict control over the family. So is he watching how you're starting to kind of like diverge off that family life? No, because, well, when I was 14, my parents got divorced. So I'm not living with him anymore.

So no, he's not really aware of it. I mean, my mom's not either. I mean, they don't know, you know, that's what you do in high school. You go to parties without your parents knowing. So, I mean, they don't really know. They know a little bit, but they don't know, like, all that's going on. Do you think the divorce was like a trigger for you? Oh, it probably gave me some freedom, you know, to kind of like going off on my own and stuff like that, not as much discipline and strictness, you know, so, but I don't, you know, who knows how I would, because that happened right when I'm kind of turning 14. So who knows once I became a teenager, whether they stay together or not, what I, you know, how much I would have rebelled and started doing on my own, no matter what. Now, your friends during this period of time, are they getting into trouble too? Are you hanging around like a bad crowd?

I would say yeah, but not as much as me. So you were the main black sheet? I'm just taking it too far. Okay. Yeah, I'm just taking it a little too far. I just got way too carried away. So yeah, they'll get in trouble, you know, but I would just get in more. You know, I'd always be the one who got in a little more trouble.

So what happens the day of like these robbers? You commit a couple robberies, walk us through what exactly happened, how it went down? and how you get caught ultimately? Well, I think it was, I mean, it kind of starts with the fact that I had already been to prison when I was 19. I was on a youthful offender type of thing where it's your, you know, you're young, under 20, first felony, some stuff they do in South Carolina. And I basically got like four months, four in armed robbery. And I think I was like, I took like a X for the first time or something. and I had robbed, like, local people who had drugs, you know, not the toughest guys,

but just, you know, people around my city. And for some reason, you know, once I took that Xanax, I just thought it was a good idea. Hey, let me just go rob a store until I robbed a store with a gun. And about three months later, I got caught. I don't know. Why did it take them three months? I don't know. I don't know.

They just showed up one day. Well, you were charged as a youthful offender. Well, they charged me. It was my first time, like, in real trouble, you know. So, yeah, they gave me, like, a youthful offender thing, dropped it down to strong arm robbery, and I got, like, four months in some, like, it's, you go to prison, but it's kind of like,

you know, it's like a youth program type of thing, like boot camp type of thing in prison. So, but it wasn't enough to do anything to me. Yeah, it wasn't enough to, like, snap me out of it. What did your parent, or what, specifically, what did your dad say to you when you get caught that first time? Well, we weren't really talking. we just didn't talk you know what I mean we didn't he just wasn't like you know he's a you know he's a preacher

and stuff like that but that doesn't always mean like they're the best person you know so just things were never that great so once that happened a divorce happened and now I'm old enough to kind of like have a little bit of free will just chose not to talk to him and I mean you hear cases all the time about how that the parent is like a role model in in the community and society and then like at home, like their home life is just so much different. They're not that same person. So it must have been hard on you in that sense. Yeah, I mean, it was just real, like, superficial, I would say, like, because it's a

preacher family, so you've got to, like, play that role when you're around other people. And that's kind of part of the reason why we weren't allowed to have people over. I wasn't too much allowed to go to other people's houses, maybe one friend, you know, but, which just kind of, you know, that's the reason, I guess. Now, how does a teenager get a gun to even commit this robbery? Like, where do you get that from? Because when I grew up, there was no, like, I couldn't, I didn't have easy access to, like, grab a gun if I wanted to. Well, it's the South.

I guess a lot more people got, I don't know, everybody's got a gun down there. Somebody's dad or something, you know, but some, I don't know, I was riding around with some girl who was like, I was like, I think I just turned 18 the first time I did that, first time I got my hands on a gun. And she was probably like 20, 21. And I don't know. I was just like, I want to go to Rob's door. And she's like, well, I got a gun at home. So we went to her house and got the gun when I went and did it. Did you ever think like you could do the robbery without a gun?

Or was it just because of like music or whatever that you knew that robbery equated to gun and gun equated to robbery? I mean, I don't know. In my mind, I didn't want to do it with a gun. You know, like, and I don't know, maybe some music, but just at that point I'd already just like got caught up. And, you know, again, it's just. Do you think the robbery was more about the money or more about just being a part of the life and living like this, you know, like this crime life,

I guess you could call it. I think it was maybe 49, 51, 41% about the money. And 51% about just like after the fact, like, yeah, I did that. Yeah. That rush, that feel, that adrenaline. Yeah. So you get caught with this. Do they give you probation, jail?

What do you get as a... Well, you know, they gave me the four months. And then I was on a youthful offender parole, which was lasting for a year or two, I don't know. So 11 months into that parole once I come home. I just start violet. I started selling weed very small time. Nothing like pounds or anything, but like just small a time selling weed.

Started doing the robberies, like not on stores. I was like, I'll never rob another store again. That was so stupid. You know, I'll never do that again. And I started, I was just robbing like drug. dealers and stuff around there for like two ounces and just small stuff and um just kind of living like that and uh i think i got pulled over one day caught with some weed and it was clear that it was like to sell and not to use so all that got back to my PO and um i don't know it didn't violate me

but basically like i was on house rest i had to go to these classes i had to do all this stuff that I was just hard-headed. I was like 20, you know, 20 or something like that and just wasn't going to do. I just, I don't know, you know, just young being stupid, I was just like, fuck that. I'm not going to classes. I'm not doing any.

Do you graduate high school? No, I got expelled in my second senior year. So college was off the table, no high school. Yeah, I mean, I got my GED. And what's like your mindset at this time? Like you got a couple chances before you end up with the big sentence. Yeah, well, definitely not appreciative of that of a chance that I got.

And just like, fuck that. Just like, you know, not even thinking about a future or what am I going to do with my life, just like, I don't know what I thought. If I thought I was just going to maybe hit like some million dollar lick and just live like that, you know, I don't know. I just, I wouldn't think of anything. Did you have a plan of like getting out of the life? No, it was just going day by day.

Yeah, just that dumb, that stupid. So what happens at the second robbery that ultimately ends up fucking. So I'm fucking, basically, long story short, I'm fucking up on my parole. You know, and so it's kind of to a point, like, I'm not showing up to my shit, you know, my dates, my report dates. So I'm just, I know that I'm fucked. And at this point, I can't stay at my home, you know, my mom, where I live, because she's like, I mean, she's on, you know, she's going to, like. like tell my officer what you know because she wants me to get right and do right you know so she's not like enabling any of my bullshit you know so i can't stay there um don't have a job don't you know i'm

just living literally robbery robbery because once i got house arrest it killed all my like clientele for any type of little weed i was selling so like i have nothing so i'm just like robbing people and then i robbed everybody to where nobody will even meet me anymore because they already know It's a small town. Everybody knows. So I'm like, fuck. So I'm like running out of my last bit of money. I know I'm on the run.

Basically on the run from parole. So I'm like, I'm at some party with this guy who I always did the robberies with. And it's like 2 a.m. Or something. It's time to leave. And I'm basically out of money. I don't even have money to buy a hotel for that night. So I'm like, shit, let's go to a gas station.

Because I don't care. I just don't give a fuck, you know. And so I'm like, let's just go to a gas station. So, yeah, we leave. when we go to a gas station, well, we're going to a gas station that I had in mind, and all the way there, we pass one that looks very empty. And I'm like, hey, this looks, I pull over here right quick while we're at it, and I go in there and rob it.

What do you do? Like, what's the scenario like? Well, I told him to, you know, ride down the road a little bit from the gas station, so he's not like there, you know, his car. I'm like, pull down here. There's like an abandoned house, like, you know, five driveways down from this gas station. And he pulls in there. I'm like count to 100 and then pull up the road and I'll just hop in. I'll be running down the road and hop in the car. I'm going to do it that quick.

So that's what he does. I get out and I go in the thing and I'm just like, my whole thing was like, and I don't have a mask or anything, you know. I just, my whole thing was like I'm, I don't know what type of little secret buttons and little things, booby traps they got back there. So my thinking was like I'm going to tell them to ring me up a cart and a cigarette because I might as well get that too, you know, and instead of a pack, I might as well get a carton, right, if I'm going to do that. So I'm like, give me a carton. How much is a carton of cigarettes? And they'll like ring it up. And they'd be like, 50, whatever. You know, I'm like, okay. They'll be like, can I see some ID? I'm like, yeah. And at that point, I just pull out the gun. Because now I know that

you've run me up, you're able to open the register. I didn't want to hear any shit. Like, oh, I can't open the register unless I purchase is being, you know, that was my thinking. Are you scared at all? No. No. No. So he opens the register What happens next? I just pulled the gun out And I'm like, give me all the money And he just hands it over?

Yeah, I mean they start like This part the first person started kind of like They like went to reach for Thinking I was just instinctually just like I'm handing them on my ID You know so they stop for a second Just look and then they kind of like Started like breathing You know pretty panicky and so

But I didn't want to like do anything You know I wasn't I don't know if I was prepared to, like, do anything if, like, shit went wrong or nobody, like, did what I told them to do. But they don't know that. But they don't know that. And they, and they did. So they did that. And then while they were, like, getting the money, I'm just kind of talking, like, you know, I'm just here to get the money.

I'm not here to do anything crazy. I'm just going to, you know, and I'm going to go. So don't, you know, no, no, no. And I think they later told the detective, like, I was the most polite person who, like, who could have been doing that in that moment. The most polite robber. Yeah. What a nickname. And then like this truck, this old, like, beat up rusty truck pulls up.

And, you know, the gas station's got, like, their whole wall is, like, glass see through. So it's like, you can clearly see me in there. And this truck pulls up right in front of us, like, right in line with us. And I'm like, look, and I'm just like, fuck. And I'm like, try to hurry up. Because if this man comes in here, you know, I don't know, like, what it's going to happen or what this will turn into. So they kind of like hurry up. But luckily, he was just, he never even looked up.

He was, like, scratching off a lotto ticket or something in his truck. So they gave me the money, and I took that, and I took the carton of cigarettes, because I might as well. And I went out. I didn't want to run because this guy. So I walked out, and I kind of cut around the building, and once I cut around the building out of sight, I just took off running. And it was literally, like, right on time with, like, him pulling up, and I hopped in,

out of sight of cameras. You weren't worried about cameras inside the store? Like, you're on probation, you're wanted or anything, and you didn't care? So did you go into that store knowing like you would probably eventually get caught? Like was that made up in your mind? I don't, I just don't think I even thought about it. Cared what happened. You know what I mean?

Just just. How much money do you get from this robbery? Like the 300 bucks, 200 bucks? So looking on this now was the 300 bucks in a cart and a cigarette's worth 10 years in prison? Absolutely not. That's wild. Absolutely not. That is so wild.

Like in the moment, but at that time frame. But at the time I'm like, I can get a hotel and I can. get some pizza and some peers. You were fighting to live another day. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I mean, I just, I don't know what I thought. I thought somebody would probably just kill me. You know, somebody or I would probably just fucking kill me

and I didn't give a fuck. Yeah. I mean, we don't think about, like, at that time, I know I certainly didn't at that age ever think about, like the consequences of actions. It was always, let me get through today. Yeah. So how do you eventually get caught?

How long passes from that rob? Well, you know, I go down to the next door and rob that one. The run I was originally on the way to, I told you, we were going to the, this store that was about 30 minutes away and on the way there we see one and it's actually the same brand of gas station so it's like that owner really hates me um but yeah so we did that one and then we continued on to the one i originally had mine and i robbed that one too the same way but the person was a little sassy this time they like we're not talking shit but they still did it but

they were just like it's shitting on me the whole time and you got the same amount of money just i mean about yeah just about and then what happened happens after that. You leave that one. Get dropped off at a motel, paid for a night at the motel with my girl, and then my girl, and go to sleep. And then what, the cops kicked down your door? Well, the next day, well, at this point I'm like, I got to go. I got to get out of the city. Does she know that you rob? Yeah, she's in the car.

She's in the back seat. She didn't know I was going to, but yeah, she didn't know I was going to do that. So your plan is to get out of the city and just leave? Not land back. I don't. That's why I was saying it. You got no plan. Yeah. Like you think I'm going to like hit you with some logic.

There's none. No, it's interesting to hear. But yeah. So I'm like, I'm going to get out of the city and just, I'm just going to like find a fucking plug and just like go clandestine in there. And I'm either going to not make it.

And then it's like, fuck it, I'm going to worry about it. Or I'm going to make it and I'll like live the next. Like, I don't know. You know, I thought you could just probably live forever.

off of some big lick. So I guess the second option didn't work out too well. No, you know, I never made it out of the city. Oh, you didn't even make it out of the city? Oh, no. So I was at the hotel, and I was like, I'm going on the run. I need some going on the run supplies. So I went and got like a pack of Haynes shirts and like some toothpaste and like,

I think I got a box of bullets from some ammo shop in front of Walmart. And then I got like a case of beer and a $5 little Caesar's pizza. And I'm like, all right, I got my book. to pick me up and my girl's at the hotel so so we're on our way back i got my pizza i got my beer i got my bullets i got my hygiene products i'm like okay i'm ready to go got my traveling suitcase i'm ready you know this is going to be great i'm going to make it and so we're on the way back to the hotel we're probably about five minutes from the from the hotel and i get this call from my girl and she's like she's like baby don't come back here don't come back here they're out here they're everywhere and i'm like

My heart sinks. But at the same time, I'm on parole. You know, so I'm like, well, they're here because I, you know, I violated parole. They don't know what I've done, you know. So I'm like, and at the same time, it's not like the, it's not like you fucking five-star hotel. I mean, they could be looking for anybody. I mean, this is a shit motel.

Everyone here is probably wanted by the police. So they may not even be there for me. That's what I'm open. You know, you're going to hold on to that. So I'm like, she's like. I'm like, she's like, yeah, they're all like out here with guns and vests. They're like looking all over. Like they're looking at room numbers.

And I'm like, well, they're probably not even there for me. And then like, she's like, oh, she's like, I got to go. They're coming to the room right now. They're coming to the room. I'm like, yeah. And she's like, yeah, I'm like, hangs up. So I'm like, fuck. And we drive by at the motel.

Like 10 seconds later, I'm like, don't turn in. And I look, there's fucking cars, Impala's, crown vicks all in the parking lot. Why do you even go back? I didn't go back. But you drove, like, you drove by. Oh, I drove by. It's on the highway. Okay. I mean, it just, you pass it by.

I mean, I was almost there when she called me. Okay. So we got to pass it anyways, you know. So, I mean, we just, I just look. And I'm like, fuck. And so now it's, I'm trying to find a place to go. I don't know where to go. So we're just kind of riding around, trying to figure out what's going on.

So I get a call from her, you know, while we're trying to find a place. And she's like, yeah, they're here with your parole officer. They know about this. They know about that. Did they arrest her at that time or no? No, but, you know, they're like she's like 18 so they're putting pressure on her like you're fucked forever if you don't try to like set him up convince him to come back here and

like some dog the bounty hunt yeah so like she's scared today you know but even though she didn't you know she didn't have anything to do with it but um so I'm like uh yeah I find that out I'm like fuck but the people driving me don't even know what I've done they think they're looking for me because of parole and they don't realize what I did like the previous night so um I'm like, man, take me to the guy. We can just call him Al. But take me to the guy's house who I did this robbery with, and I do all the robberies with.

And he was in on it. He knew about it. He got a cut of the money. He was the driver. You know, I'm like, take me to his house. So it's about 30 minutes to his house and we start heading there. And I'm calling him and I'm like, hey man. Like he won't answer.

I'm like, fuck. So I'm calling him. I'm like, man, you got to let me come lay low with your house. Like, man, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, no, no, you can't right now. I'm like, man, come on, dude. I'm fucked right now. You've got to let me come.

He's like very hesitantly and reluctantly. He's like, all right, man, come on. Come on. I'm like, okay. So we're on the way there. Get pulled over. My guy pulls over. The cops come.

They like check the idea of the guy driving who looks just like me at this time. He has long hair like me. He's skinny with tattoos like me. And they check and they're like, I hear muttering to each other. It looks just like him. but that's not his name. And they're like,

giving his item, and he's like, sorry about that. This car matches the description of someone carrying an armed robbery suspect. He's like, oh, damn, that's crazy. And he's like,

have a nice day. So we leave. And you're just in the backseat. I'm in the back seat. We keep driving. Why didn't they check your ID? I don't know. They just checked it.

And so, I mean, there was another person in the back seat too. You know, I mean, there was a car full of people. So it just didn't fit the description. They figured it. I guess they just, I don't know.

I guess they just slipped. and so like the guy turns around he's like can you believe there's somebody riding around in the same car as us who just robbed fucking storyline i'm like yeah that's crazy he still doesn't know he doesn't nothing i'm just like man that's wild in a small world and i'm like fuck they know that's when i really knew like they know about that too so we're on the way to the guy's house like 10 minutes from getting there and we get pulled over again and um but this time it's like way more serious like everyone's like got their police cruiser doors open with guns pointed and they're like on the megaphone like everyone down on your belly on the ground you know how long ago was this like after you got pulled over the first time probably like 20 minutes so they probably realized that they

fucked up and then well i'll tell you um you know that that's what you figure but um so they get me long story short i'm like they get me everybody else goes they don't got anything to do with it my girl goes she ain't got them do with it it's just me so they get me there And it's not until six months into jail when you get your motion of discovery and stuff. You're just in a county jail. Yeah, you get your like basically how everything unfolded all the paperwork. And I realized, uh, the guy, my driver had told on me. He told them.

They went to his house first. And basically the context was they didn't know he was involved in any way, but they saw his truck come at this four-way stop, which is right by the gas station. So they barely caught him in his tag. And they were like, man, as soon as this guy ran off. that direction this truck came that direction so they went to his house with the intent of like hey did you see this guy get into a car they had no leads i guess like my face wasn't very visible and stuff like that so uh they're like do you see this guy go into a house or a car what was the description of this car you know that's what they were going to ask and so they get to his door and they start like

but you know they knock and they're basically just like hey we you know we're here because you're around this location at this time last night and he just folds i mean he was like okay but i didn't know I didn't know he was going to do that. His name's Paul. You know, I just dropped him off at this motel and this motel room number, you know, blah, blah, blah. And that's how they knew and came to my motel. And so I call him, and that's why he didn't want me to come to his house.

Okay. And so he finally's like, okay, come on. And then it says later that right after that call, he had called them. Oh, and said he's on the way to my house. And what car you're driving and all that? Yeah. That's crazy, man. That's how they got me.

Wow. Now he, and so about three years into my prison sentence, I called home. And somebody was like, man, did you hear about Al? I'm like, well, no, what? And he's like, he's dead. He got in a car wrecked, a drunk driving accident or something. He was drunk? I guess, yeah.

That's crazy. It's crazy how life works out, like karma, life, everything like that. Yeah. Because he was equally involved with the. He was. You know, and other people are, they kind of say like, well, he really, like in the end, did you a favor? because who knows what you would have done,

you might have died, or you might have did something so much worse that you got more time, and that's true. You know, and ultimately, it was, it's good that that happened when it did before it went further, but at the same time, yeah, I mean, he was just as much.

I mean, he did everything. Every robbery I did, he was there. Yeah. You know. So you're arrested, brought to county. Do you get a plea deal? Do you go to trial? What's a legal process?

I mean, of course, they looked at it like, okay, we already, like, cut you a break on your first. first robbery of a store. Now you got two more 30 minutes apart. No deal, no breaks. They're like, we'll give you 10 years. And South Carolina has a mandatory minimum of 10 years for an armed robbery.

And so it was 10. Like they never budged. I sat in the county for like a year and a half, two years. Just waiting. Yeah, they're like, you can get 10 or you can like go to trial and probably get 30. So eventually I was like, okay, I'll take the 10. Do you have a public defender or a paid lawyer? A public defender.

Are you talking to your family too while you're sitting in the county jail? Yeah, my mom, you know. Not your dad at all at this point? No. What about your sisters? A little bit, maybe one of them. What are they saying to you? What are they like the conversations like?

My mom's like, I don't know. I mean, what do you say? You know what I mean? She's just like, she knew that I was, like I said, you know, I was already not doing one. what I was supposed to do. So it wasn't like some big, you know, reveal that I'm out here doing bullshit. But it was just like, you know, I don't know.

Just. Are you reflecting at that point in time? Like on, are you regretting? Are you still in like that same, like, you know, young, troubled, you know, gangbanger type mindset? Well, I mean, before, you know, at the time in the county, I'm still kind of thinking of, this won't happen to me. I won't get 10 years, you know. They're saying that, but that's not. what it's going to turn out to be there's no way that I could get 10 years in prison but I did and

when you're sentenced to that 10 years is that when it hits you like what's the feeling like of being in front of a judge and he says to you you know you spend the next decade in a state prison what goes through someone's head in that moment well um I guess you know I went so long not wanting to accept the plea deal um it got to a point right and I just kept thinking nah at the last minute they're going to like drop it to something they'll drop it to something there's no way just kind of in denial about it and I think at the very end they were like okay you can take 10 or we're going to fucking trial and I'm in the county long enough to know like that's not what you want to do you know so I'm like okay I'll take the 10 but literally like the day I told my public defender I'd take the

10 she said it's like one day expired their final plea and she said the bet and so she emails the prosecutor and they're like best we'll give you now is open plea 10 to 30 so I could receive anywhere from 10 to 30 years and usually if you have an open plea you're going to get somewhere in the middle of that so I was so it was likely I was going to get about 20 so that it took me two years just to come to grips with like okay I guess I'm doing 10 and now it's like I might get 20 might get 30 yeah I mean like the average person goes in at like zero to X amount they don't go in at where you're starting at 10, so that's gotta be scary. Yeah, I was like, if I get a day every 10,

I'm just gonna drop dead. There's no fucking way. But they gave you the 10th. It took me this long to just be okay. But, you know, I went in there. And so that's even worse. You know, it's not like I'm going in there like, you know, man, they're gonna give me like,

what's it like to hear 10? It's like, at this point, I'm begging for 10. I'm hoping I get 10, which is just. That what's, that's hard. Like, that's just so. Do you speak at your sentencing? Like, are you remorseful? Are you saying like, I fucked up, I need another chance?

Or? Well, you know, I had a very nice judge. And my family came on my behalf. You know, my mom, my sisters were there. My grandparents were there. You know, my mom spoke. And she tried, you know. And, you know, honestly, the judge, she was crying.

She had to get a tissue and stuff. The judge was crying. Yeah, she was crying. She was like, you know, I honestly think I would rather give you some type of, like, rehab, like in-house, like 18-month rehab or something like that. But my hands are tired because we have this mandatory minimum of 10 years. You know, she's like, there's literally nothing I can do, but I will give you time served for all the days you've done in jail,

and that's the best I can do, and I'll give you 10. I'm not going to go every day over 10. So I, you know, any other judge might have gave me. Throw in the bucket, yeah, yeah. Did your dad show up at sentencing? No. How did that affect you mentally? It didn't because I didn't fuck with him.

You were done with him by that point. I hadn't fought with him for a long time. Yeah. I mean, I wonder what the judge is thinking, too. She probably sees, like, this young kid, like, it's kind of a broken family at this point in time. Yeah, I mean, my mom stands up and says, like, such good stuff. You know, she's like, he's never been violent, like, with his family, not like that, you know, and he's just, you know, she doesn't, you know, she's just, she's going to talk about her son like any mother's going to talk about her son. Or, like, the victims show up a sentencing to speak to?

I don't think any victim spoke. Yeah. Just like the people that were actually, like, robbed and under that pressure and, like, staring down the gun. I don't think anybody showed up. Yeah. Now, you, after you get sentenced, they move you to your home prison. What prison is at?

And what is it? Well, you go to Kirkland, where they evaluate you for about 30 days. They figure out, based on your sentence, if you've been locked up before, what happened when you were locked up before? I mean, did you stab people? Or did you just, like, never break a rule? Or are you going to gang? Are you getting a feeling?

or you know, you know, do you need mental health medication? Do you need like any type of, they take all that into consideration and determine like what prison yard within that state you should be at. So did you. No, gone? I mean, I was there for about 30, 40 days before they decided where I should go. Did you feel like the county prepared you for what was to come? Yeah, yeah, definitely.

You know, it got me used to it because I never, you know, like I said, I'd done four months. I've been to prison. but that wasn't shit, you know. So, yeah, two years in the county, it definitely got me, you know, just in the mind frame of being incarcerated, but it was still pretty different from jail to prison, you know.

Yeah. Now, when you finally land at your home prison, what is it and what type of security prison is it? Well, it's funny because the first prison they sent me to was a level one, which is minimum security. There's no gate or, you know, no, no, you got lucky. or anything yet and um had a lot of privileges and stuff and but you know usually they send people there when they got like a year or six months something like that left and um and i still had like at this

point seven eight years left so uh it was kind of fucked up like not seeing a fence and just i could look across the street and there was a car dealership so you're like this is sweet yeah yeah i was just like god i just want to walk off here so bad but you know did they realize they made a mistake and they kicked you up or no um you know i'm i'm i'm i'm I'm only like 23 at this point. And I hadn't like, honestly, I hadn't fully, like it's not like, you know, I'm a changed man, you know, and I've seen the full error of my ways

and I've fully matured from the mind state that I was in, you know, at this point. So, I mean, I'm still, like, I was getting into fights. So I'm like, I'm starting this decade in prison. I mean, I got to fight. I'm fighting people. Had a low security prison you're causing this kind of trouble. Well, I mean, I'm not like causing.

I mean, I wasn't the only, I mean, people fight, you know, obviously not as much or like as wild as, you know, other, other security prisons. But I mean, people still fight. They're less likely to. And just people are in the mind state of going home. Most people are there. So they're not looking for that.

But I'm just starting. And I'm young and I'm like, I can't not, you know? Like you got to do that. You know what I mean? You're trying to survive. Like you're trying to figure it out. Like I can't come in here and like not fight when like an issue happens. Like I'm going to have a hell of a seven, eight years.

ahead of me. Now are people giving you a hard time because like you're a young white kid? Like did you have tattoos? Like do you look the way you look now when you first started in a prison? I mean I definitely got more tattoos but I was still like pretty much all that and so you kind of like you knew what time it was going in like what you had to do essentially. Well I mean I know like a young white guy is not going to receive like the entry level amount of respect is like you know a black guy or just anybody else other than just your regular white guy who isn't like just bald with head tats and you know so what's like your first move as a young white kid in prison to like assert that authority like you're not someone to be fucked with or messed around with well i mean i just you know

i learned enough to know that you don't i'm not going to like go trying to like at like i'm going to come in here and like shove my weight around and stuff and like me do anything to cause any fights but people definitely like try to play you like a bitch or just like, you know, when you just mind in your own, I mean, you don't look for trouble, but trouble will come your way. And so when it came my way, I would fight and, you know, wouldn't like win a lot of times.

I mean, sometimes I get to fuck up. But, I mean, you know, in prison, you know, whether you win or lose, it doesn't really matter as long as you fight. Guys try to try you at all or anything like that? Yeah. I can't remember the first, oh, well, the first one, I got this job in the kitchen and I was like the dishwasher.

It always starts with the kitchen job. Yeah. I was the dishwasher guy and it was like I just washed all the dishes and it's time for me to like in five minutes my shift is leaving and the next shift is coming in and so this next shift like biscuit maker guy who's like a blood or something, he comes in

and he's like and he immediately starts putting these dirty biscuit batter filled pots in this sink that I just finished like clearing out and I'm about to leave in like three minutes. I'm not going to do it. so you know he he notices that i'm not coming over there to do it so he goes mosey's over there and starts like doing it he like doing it real aggressive like he's mad that he has to do it and he starts like mumbling kind of mumbling to himself but you know loud enough purposely to where i can

hear them pussy bitch it just all this shit talking about me and like every it's clear like everyone else can hear there's everyone's there we all know he's talking about me so i can't just like stand there and not do shit so i walk over there And I'm like, hey man, are you talking about me? And he turns around like, mad that I even came and said that, like the audacity. So he's like, yeah, I'm talking about you. And I'm, oh, well, what are you? You know, you're trying to get with me after your job or something?

And he's like, he's like, yeah. And he thought of it. As a matter of fact, we can do it right after the little bell goes off. You know, like, fuck that. You can, we can come to go to the bathroom and B Ward. We'll meet there. And I'm like, okay. You know.

So that happens. and we go back there and we go in the bathroom and I'm like, I go in there first and I'm kind of like, just ready. And he comes in there and we square up and I go to swing and he just, boom, hit me so fast and hard. I just saw like green and he just beat the fuck at me for about a good 20, 25 seconds. Beat the shit out of me all over the bat. I'm like slipping

and sliding, you know, the bathroom's always wet. I'm like slipping in the mop buckets and shit, just getting the shit beat out of me. And then he just stops and walks out and I got up and walked out. And I'm sure you gained respect for that. Well, yeah. I mean, for that and for the fact that like so much, especially on a minimum security, so many people will go tell right away.

And I didn't. You know, I'm not kind of doing that. You know, what's the point of like getting my asswood if I just like ruin all that fucking respect by. You know what's interesting about it is that we're the same exact age when we went to prison. We're both white. We're at low security prisons. And people don't think that this type of shit happens in lows. And even though mine was federal years of state,

but it does happen. And we both handled our situations, like, very differently. Like, I'm not a fighter. I'm not a confrontational type person. Like, that shit happened to me. And, like, we both handled it in very different ways. So it's interesting that you, like, knew at that point in time, like, you had to swing and you showed up.

I'm sure the guy was surprised that you showed up, too. Yeah, you know, and I mean, it's like, you know, it was just a different thing. Like, I just kind of learned. It's kind of, like, different. In high school, it's like if you get beat, if you fight and then you get beat up, like you're just clowned. And like you're like they like, you're not living that down for weeks. But if you just fight, you know, you'll still get respect just for doing that. It's just when you don't fight.

Like, I mean, there are people who want to like push people around are going to look at it like, well, there's too many people who aren't going to at least make me whoop their ass. And I'll just rather do that than rather deal with somebody who's not going to make me do that. you know, instead of like, do this. So, I mean, yeah, you know, I mean, I just, I just didn't want to live like, I mean, it sucked already, you know, that I was going to be in. I just didn't want to live like that. You know, I didn't have any, I mean,

I didn't have any other way. Like, I didn't have any money. I didn't know how to hustle. I didn't know anything like that. I wasn't from the streets to where I just coming there and I already know how to, like, make something out of nothing. I'm a preacher's kid who just started doing dumb shit. So, like, I'm in there.

Like, I got at least fight or stand there and get hit. Now, did you stay at a low security prison or did they bump you up? No, I was there about seven months. Oh, that didn't last one. I got in probably about five fights. Okay. You know, and like, I think the last fight I got caught. So they just sent me to immediately to a level two, medium security.

But it was like one that they called like a baby three because it's like there's some medium securities that aren't that bad. And then there's some that are like they're so bad that they're damn near like a three, which is the worst as far as violence. What type of people are at this facility? Well, see, you get a mix at that point because, you know, level three is more for like life sentences and things close to that, 40 years, 30 years. But you get a lot of people who have that kind of time or have life sentences even, but they're able to maybe not get in trouble for a certain amount of time and they're able to get on medium security. So you'll have a mix of people who have maybe five years, 10 years, 20 years, or life sentence. You kind of just get a big mix of people. And got like, yeah, I mean.

What are it like the gangs and the, like, the. politics like are does anyone come up to you as like this new white kid on the block and asking you about anything yeah oh i mean i was in a gang i joined a gang in prison what kind of gang did you join oh it was geez geez and is it just like all white guys how is it no no it's uh i mean just you had you don't really have any white you know like you see in like other prisons there'll be like the white people black people Hispanic people it's not motivated by race no there's no there's no race based gangs and their You know, I mean, I guess like the, you got Bloods, Crips, and GD.

That's it, Pyrru, you know, but Bloods, Crips and G. And, you know, Crips might have a few white boys. If you see a white Cripp, he's probably, and he's accepted, then he's probably crazy, you know, that fucking wild. There's a lot more white G's, you know, than any other type of white gang member. Because, you know, they're allowed. They're kind of like the only gang that white boys can really join. And so when, you know, if there's, you know, there's white guys who will, who will. do what they got to do.

There's something that can fucking fuck some people up. So they definitely get recruited if they're not already in it before they come to prison. And I mean, I would fight. And I didn't lose every fight. I mean, I won enough. But I certainly got beat probably 50-50. What's it like to be a member of a gang in prison? Like, what's like in everyday life?

What are some of the things you're forced to do or have to take part in? I mean, it helps you. I mean, it's helpful in the ways of, you know, you got people there who, who, I mean, I guess it just depends on the group of guys that you're around who are also affiliated. You could be around a bad group or a good group who, like, really does the right thing with what you're supposed to do, like, looks out for each other, like, food or, like, teaches you things or, like, you're new. I'm going to, like, teach you, you know, I'm just, or just tries to, like, mentor you. There could be a guy who's been in there 15 years, and it's like, why do you want to get mentored by an inmate? Okay, but he might have been in there so long that he's, I mean, he's got more time to serve, but he's made his changes.

and he's matured and he's looked back on his mistakes and he's able to give some advice. He's just not out of prison yet for what he did decades ago. And so, you know, they're supposed to just help people, you know, like me who hadn't gotten through my fucking head yet. So it gave me like some stability in prison. Yeah, so I mean there's good things that can come out of it. And then, of course, you know,

you're going to be obligated to participate in things that might not have shit to do with you, but now it does because you're involved in this gang. You might have to participate in violations. A box where, you know, it's you and two other members surrounding one guy who's in violation and you got to like beat him, but he'll fight back, you know, for however many seconds. And you got to do that. Or you might be the guy who fucked up and you might be getting beat by three other guys

for however long. Or, I mean, it might, you know, you're expected and obligated to represent this gang that you're a part of. So, you know, you might have an issue. You might be the only one in there. You know, and then there's these other gangs and they might want to exploit you because you're the only one there and you've got to take that fucking beating, you know, instead of just like laying down because you're representing, you know, so there'll be no shame

if you get the shit beat out of you because what can you do? You're just one man. But if you just sit there and like, push it out and basically let yourself get extorted and all that shit, like, well, then you're not representing well. So, I mean, just little obligations like that or if a big riot pops off, you know, between gangs, I mean, you're going to have to participate. So as, like, a member of a prison gang, what's considered like a violation? What are the nose? That can be a couple of things. Like stealing, like stealing sneakily.

You know, they're kind of more like, if you're going to take something, you got to go take it, like straight up. But some places they might, it just depends on where you're at and what the environment is and what the politics are there. Some people might be like, no taking, no stealing, like no taking either, you know. Not paying your debts to people, gang members or, you know, non-gang members, you know. Not paying your debts. if you drink wine and you like can't handle it and you're causing problems and you're acting

you know ways that you wouldn't act if you weren't drunk and so now you're like disrespecting people and just doing too much and you're you're causing problems and so now you're causing problems for everybody because we're supposed to be you know we're going to have to be there for you but you've brought everybody into some shit just because you want to be drunk and be dumb so you know they'll get you for that just if you you know just little violations like that what are like some bad situations you've been in because you were like a member um i mean like real bad i mean i remember at one point uh there was a lot of beef going on with these crips because i rolled in 60s crips and the gs but it wasn't i mean it wasn't anything that i was starting or even had any

parts with i didn't even wasn't even in it it was really just like two or three guys altogether collectively from both gangs and because these main guys weren't getting along everybody was involved in life. It seemed like every other day or every two days, we would be in such a tense situation where everybody had to be out there on the rock, on the common area, strapped up with the knife,

while these guys, like, hashed it out in a room or something and decided, basically, if we were about to, like, pop off or not. You know, and so you're just sitting there, like, sick feeling in your stomach because you don't know what the fuck's about to happen. And then at the same time, that they, if it would have,

they probably would have fucking fuck us up because they had some, they just, I mean, they just happened to have some fucking. Are you in, like, constant, animals on their, fucking sad at that time. Are you in like constant fear like walking around? Like do you always have to have like a knife on you?

Like how does it work? No, well I thought so at first. But I mean after so many years I mean you learn how to move. And I mean it kind of gets to a point too where I mean you'll have people from different gangs might be more close with each other than people of their own gang because people kind to get to where they deal with the person and not the gang. You know what I mean? You might just be a real person, a real ass, like real solid,

respectable person who's just very good and fair and just right in the way that they deal and treat people no matter who they are. And so, you know, it can be like that. So it's not just like I'm always tense because there's other gang members around. And I got to where I learned how to socialize and just deal with people. and I was pretty well liked because, you know, I wasn't going around trying to start anything. I never wanted to go around and start anything.

Unlike before prison, where I would go out and try to rob people and shit, now it's like, you can't do that anymore. No. Because you're going to get, somebody's going to, you're not the toughest thing in there. You know, somebody will always do something to you. Yeah. So, I mean, basically it humbled me, and it humbles everybody. And when you're around a bunch of guys who will do shit like that,

everybody kind of just you don't try to be tough with each other you're glad when there's no issues you're you're happy for peace so if there's no reason to have an issue everyone's glad for it and people can get along so a lot of days you're not walking around in fear and shit if there's like a troublemaker who's about to start some shit people might get more mad at that just that one guy and we might discipline that if he's in our game we might discipline him ourselves just for like you're about to fuck up the whole piece you're about to fuck up the whole atmosphere in here because you're out here doing some dumb shit Is there like paperwork checking at all?

Like in the federal system? Do you guys like someone news on the yard or they're saying, hey, we need to see your paperwork, make sure you're good? You know, I've heard of like prisons where they do that to anybody, no matter who you are when they enter. That doesn't really happen unless you are joining a gang or in a gang. So there's like an introductory period or something like that? Yeah.

I mean, if you're going to join, you've got to like show your motion of discovery and stuff and just show that you didn't write any statements or snitch or anything like. that. If you're already in there, it may not happen unless like something comes up, some allegations or some rumors or something like that. And it's like, well, we're going to have to check. All right. So something I'm very curious about like your story, because you're very vocal about it on like social media is cell phones in state prison. How do they come in? Like how common are they? What are the prices? What's like the breakdown? Oh, man. They're, I mean, they're very common. You know, there's probably

like 10 to 15 in every cell block. You know, the prices, it's changed. It changed over the years because it just progressively got harder and harder to get them in. When I first got there, you get a cell phone, a brand new cell phone with a charger for like $300 to $500. That's it. Yeah. And then just over the years, I could start going to $1,000 and then $2,000. By the time I left, you were able to sell a cell phone for anywhere from $500,000.

grand to 6,500. Yeah, when I was in prison, they were like three grand at the low. When they're at the camp, they're a lot cheaper, but it's all about supply and demand. Right. Because, you know, it's just over time, like ways and methods get fucked up or getting known about by the staff. And one big thing that changed it in 2018, there was this big riot who made the news. And I think it was supposed to think they said it was the deadliest riot in the U.S. in the past 25 years. It happened at Lee County in South Carolina. And I think like seven inmates die. They were saying like bodies were stacked on top of each other was a big riot so many people got killed and like it changed everything they

changed the color of the jumpsuits from tan to bright orange so they could see people at night a lot of changes got made and one of those was um in addition to the fences they put up these 100 foot tall i think nets so something nobody could because they were just throwing it over the fence you know so something nobody could throw over this net i mean it's huge so guys put their money together started buying drones and just getting the drones they got drones bringing in phones yeah so they just They're just putting their money together, sending it someone out there, getting them by a drone. And, you know, drones, like, they'll, like, fuck up and fall and, like, their staff gets them. So they know about them, you know, they're well aware of it.

But, yeah, started bringing in that shit with a drone just flying over the net. So, but it was harder and more expensive. So that drove the price up. It's not as successful as often as before. So, yeah, it's a lot harder. And it just kept driving the price up. What kind of phones are there? Like, I know iPhones were very hard to come by because of the chargers.

Yeah. I didn't see a, I saw like one iPhone, and that was like literally my last six months, my roommate got an iPhone. But not even like the good, like the fucking dollar store. How do you charge a phone in prison? You just plug it in the outlet. So it's regular chargers?

Like in the feds, we had to like customize it, put it in the lights, do all that type of stuff. I mean, you can, like on lockup, they might do that. But no, we got outlets because, I mean, you can buy lamps, TVs, hot waterpox and stuff on the canteen. So they keep, there's an outlet, a working outlet or two in every cell. So we would just get the charger sending in with it. Where are guys, like, hiding their phone?

Like, if you guys are in a cell, how does that work? Well, you know, different yards. It's different for different yards. Some yards have the environment where they know guys got phones. You know, and some yards are very, like, adamant about going around almost daily or every other day, and they are on it like a bloodhound to get these phones. And then other yards, they know these guys got them, but it might be a more violent environment.

And they kind of just look at it like, hey, we're not going to pressure. We're not going to put too much pressure on finding these phones until people start showing up with holes in them. You know, keep that down. And so that will, like, cause people, like, let's not take it there. Man, we don't need it. Everybody's going to get fucked up. Everybody's going to lose their phone. Now everybody's got to pay five grand again.

You know what I mean? So that, kind of that, check and balance. Do you think guys are snitching on other people about the phone so they can then sell another phone? Uh, maybe. I don't know if so much to sell another phone, but, you know, it might be guys who were just like wanting to get guys out of there. Maybe they were little money. Maybe they're, maybe they were the kind of, they had the most influence. Um, and they were running shit until some guy got there. Maybe the past three months he's been running it. And they, and they just, and they can't like, they can't outdo that guy. But they want them out of there so they can, you know, so they might like, that's an opportunity. It's like a revolving door. Yeah. So what happens? What happens when you get caught with the phone and press? prison. Well, in our prison, I mean, if you get caught with a phone, I think most places you have to get caught maybe two times in a six-month period or maybe on your third ever phone charge. If you get caught with a phone, a charger, anything that obviously is from a cell phone that shows that you had a cell phone, three charges altogether or two within a six-month period, you'll do 30 days in solitary. But other than that, nothing. They'll take the phone. You might lose your can't get can't get can't like the real phone for 30 days, shit like that. Now, does having cell phones in prison, like, change the currency on the compound? Like, I hear now, like, in comments and stuff, people are like,

oh, they're not trading ramen noodles or mackles anymore. Now they're using, like, cash app to send each other money. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a little trading going on. But, yeah, cash app. It used to be PayPal. But, yeah, cash app is the main thing now. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think guys just, I think, you know, they try to spin it like guys or put, you know,

they'll, the staff will get on. like news or something like that and just be like guys are using cell phones to put hits out on officers is that true like not i mean i think it happened once but not really guys are getting on guys are getting on guys are getting on there to get on facebook and to like get on dating apps and facebook and like get them to like try to show them something and just talk to chicks and and and get on facebook and i mean just browse social media like everybody else you know i feel like it's more in the movies about like having a contraband phone in prison and they're like trying to set up i mean it has happens but setting up more crime you know and they definitely use it i mean they definitely use it to

set up more contraband getting right in but that's different yeah but yeah but yeah it's not they're not like putting hits that's like gonna bring some fucking heat you know and these guys are already worried about like like it's got to be some shit if we're gonna fuck up like bring all this heat on the dorm to like stab this guy up real bad and send him out of here like he had to fucking devastatingly cross some line you think we're gonna fucking put a hit out on a fucking officer. It fucks up everyone's hustle. Like that would just like, kill the yard.

Now you brought up dating apps in prison. What's like, how does that work? Like, if you're in prison and you're on a dating app, are girls, do girls know that you're in prison? They love it. They love it. Why do they love it? What's a logic?

And how does this go down? Well, I think it's just, it attracts a certain type. But, I mean, there's just girls who love it. I mean, there's girls who will fucking laugh at it and think it's ridiculous. And then there's girls who, like, love it. So what do you set your location as, like, in prison? What do you do? Well, you know, I didn't get on a dating app.

I'd just be on Facebook. And just get, I mean, girls just coming your damn. I remember I was on Snapchat in prison. I would get, like, girls, like, sending their shirtless photos. Like, there was, like, that rush that they had doing that and stuff. Yeah, I love it. They think it's so cool and they want to know, like, how you got a phone. They want to know, like, what's it like?

Going live from prison. Going live. I'm on TikTok and I see people. See, I was scared to show my face, but. Um, yeah, I mean, once like, you know, because, yeah, I mean, once a girl, like, gets in your DMs, like, I'll, like, you know, everything. Yeah. We used plenty of fish a lot, too. Yeah.

That was, like, the big thing. I don't think anyone uses it, like, now in the street. People started getting on, like, hinge and the, uh, what was that other one of, um, I don't know, hens. So guys would match with someone and then set up a phone call? They'd put the picture of himself in prison, like flexing. Like a video date or something they were in? I mean, it's an amazing, I mean, I mean, you got to think it's, it's. I mean, chicks are going to reach out and have some questions.

I mean, it gets a conversation started. The end of, like, pen-palling is so, like, no one's pen-palling anymore with the write of prisoner shit. We don't write letters. Now it's FaceTime a prisoner. We're FaceTime. There could be some big money in that. Like, if some, if the prison, I know prisons are starting to implement, like, iPads and stuff. Yeah.

They all, well, they brought in some tablets, but you can't get on the internet and everything. You know, they got games, movies, TV shows. You could rent a movie from the tablet? Yeah. What kind of movies can do it go on there? they try to keep it pretty up to date you're not gonna have the newest but they try to keep it pretty up to date

they got little games you know a little like candy crush and just you know your little mom games and stuff but you can do like inmate messaging yeah like message credits you know to where you can message people like 25 cents a message and shit like that that's awesome you can do video calls on it

so you know they're hoping by that they can kind of eliminate the need for cell phones like people won't want to get them in that bag because we're giving you a tablet Now, how much time do you actually serve on the 10 years? Is it the full 10 years? Oh, about nine years.

So they didn't give you much good time. Huh? There's not much good time or parole or anything. No, because, well, they'll give you good time if you have a nonviolent charge and you're doing 60, 70% of your time for a nonviolent. And then you can earn up to like 90 if you like mess up. But if you have a violent charge like me, you don't get any good time. So, I mean, that really is there's no reason not to go in there.

and, you know, drink, cell phones, do whatever the fuck you want to do because, I mean, you can't, there's no good time. I'm not losing anything. So what year do you get out and how old are you? I got out. I got out on New Year's Eve of 2021, so basically January 1st of 2022. So a year and a half ago? Yeah. Great day to get out.

Start the new year on that new route. Yeah. What was life like for you getting out after all this time or some like hard adjustments? Well, you know, I feel like it definitely would. wasn't as hard as it would have been if I hadn't had a cell phone for like the last like five years because you know the just the world changed a lot you know from the time

when I got locked up like man the meme like me you didn't even have memes you know on the internet like memes didn't even exist and then you get out and it's like you know just think of all the changes socially that have happened to the country in just a world just in that course from 2012 to 22

you know so so if I wouldn't have had a cell phone and I'm on social media to know all that like it probably would have a bit more of a shock just in that sense. But I pretty much- 10 iPhone generations come out in those times. So, I mean, I was pretty up to date on that stuff. But, I mean, it was just wild, just, I don't know.

I made a video about this. I was saying, like, you know, I immediately went to the grocery store, my parents took me to the grocery store to get my groceries. And, like, I just felt like I didn't belong there yet. It felt like I was at a part of a prison I wasn't supposed to be in. Like, I snuck into the back of the commissary. You know what I mean?

Like, you just be like you're not there. You know, I just go out. Yeah. I remember they like took me to a restaurant to eat and like just the waitress coming up and politely like asking what I like a refill can I get you anything? She's so like bubbly

And it just fucked me up Because you used to people like You know, you're trying to sneak And get an extra cup of milk at breakfast You know what I mean? Like now that you're like asking me Is there anything else I can do for you? It was just crazy.

It's a new level, yeah Yeah How was your relationship with your parents at that point? Are you starting to rebuild it? Well, yeah, I've been talking with my mom Probably the last year before I came home And she was nervous I could tell she was nervous, like, is he going to come home and be the same or worse?

Has he really learned anything? You know, but from the first day and then just more so every day since, she's really been proud, you know, of just the changes I've made. I've just mature. I mean, I grew up, you know, I'm 30, 31, you know, and I definitely learned, like, I feel like in one way, like when you're going from 20 to 30, you've got to learn lessons like just from growing up and becoming a man. and then it's like you're learning those lessons in prison.

So like just both of those just kind of, it just really turned my mindset around. It puts a lot of pressure on someone to grow up, that's for sure. Yeah. That type of environment for that time. Yeah. And I mean, I come out and like, man, I cringe. Like when I look back on that shit, like from just how I was before business,

I just cringe, I just cringe. Yeah. Even just talking about it here, I'm just like, I don't fucking know. Dude, for like for so long I was cringe about talking about it. I didn't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about it, but it helps to talk about it. Like you want to say, like, oh, well, I had to because of this, or, you know, I had no choice or like, you know, this and that.

It's like, I mean. Did you have inclinations to get back into crime when you get out, or was that just done? No, I didn't, I didn't want to do anything that would get me back in prison. And I had, and really, you know. Yeah. I didn't want to do shit. What was it like to, like, be intimate with someone after 10 years?

Like, what's that feeling? Like, how does it go? Well, it took me a while, you know, I mean, I got a girlfriend now, but at first I knew I didn't want to come out and really get, like, jump into something like that. You know, because I was too worried, like, am I even got to be able to, like, socialize normally? I mean, you're around a whole different world and a whole different crowd and whole different cast of characters. You're around just by men too. Yeah, in prison.

And just like, just the things you'll even talk about, you know, once you get out there are just so different. I'm like, I want to even see, like, am I going to be able to even? get right, you know, at first. And it, and it wasn't that easy, you know, just walking through the mall or walking through a grocery store, all these people around you, walking behind, you walking close, talking loud, you know, it just was all, you know, it was an adjustment, you know, and I wasn't, I needed to get myself together before I even think about, I'm going to pursue a relationship with somebody. You needed some alone time. Yeah. I mean, that's real for a lot of people, even that haven't gone to prison. You have to fix you and focus on you before you could even be

comfortable having that with someone. And I was pretty open about that with my girlfriend now, you know. And I mean, she understood and she was patient. And we kept hanging out and took it at our own pace and got to where we're at now, which is great, you know. So now I am ready for that. It's been good. Yeah.

Do you think that time was helpful just to like have your space and figure shit out to do it? Yeah, because I needed to get myself together. You know, I needed to like get the foundation of even being back in the world before I like, let me try to have a good, healthy relationship. on top of that, you know, when you hadn't had any type of shit in 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. What kind of work did you get into?

Was it hard to find a job? What was life like in that sense? I never got a job. You never worked a job. I got on TikTok the first month I got out. They encouraged me on Facebook. Yeah, so why did you get on TikTok? Well, I used to make memes in prison because I'd be bored.

And I started making memes and I would go viral, just making memes. they would start going viral on Facebook, and I caught like a taste of like... Social media fame kind of. Yeah, like that and just like, I think something's funny. I create it. Everyone else thinks it's funny and it feels good.

You know, it was a rush. So I just kind of got into that. And so when I got out, everybody had already been kind of like keeping up with my shit because I would post on Facebook all the time. And so, but the cell phones are so cheap. I couldn't even like download TikTok like bigger apps.

Yeah. More than one social media at a time. So I just stayed on Facebook. So I got out. I made like a little video. or something posted on Facebook, and they were like, you need to get on TikTok. I said, all right, I'll try it.

And like the second week I got out, I got on TikTok, and within a week I'd hit a million views on it. And it just took off from there. I got like 100,000 followers in that month. And you're making money right off the bat on doing that? Yeah, because as soon as I hit 10K, they monetize me. And so I'm just making money. I'll go live live like donations.

And that was enough to live off of it. Yeah, because, I mean, I live in the South. I mean, my total bills for a month are like $1,000. dollars. Yeah, that's like, I don't live like, that's not like out here. You can't live for a thousand bucks. Right. So, I mean, I wasn't like just banking, you know, social media when I first got out. But I mean, it was, it was enough. Did you see like a direction at that point? Like, hey, I want to make like social media the rest of my life? Because I knew I was going to do something before I got out because I started recording videos of myself in prison and the stuff, just in preparation, you know, to use because I knew it would be good stuff. But I can't risk showing this right now because it's too, I'll go to solitary. You know, I'll, I'll

get fucked up. So, you know, I came home and I started doing like funny things, like little short things not related to prison, but then I would also tell, I used to get on Facebook and write short stories about true things in prison, but instead of being like, this is how, this is how many people I beat up or this is how, you know, tough I am, you know, I just started talking about funny things because, you know, prison is a crazy place with crazy people and you see a lot of crazy in a funny way, like, shit. There's so many characters.

And I feel like you never hear about that. And I feel like people are tired of here. and about how everybody's, you know, I was the biggest killer on the yard all the goddamn time, you know. But that's something that's interesting about like prison content creation because it's such an open market

that any, there's not, like, there's room for everyone in it. Like, because you're always going to have a different perspective. And like you said, people are moving away from, like, the stabbing and the violent prison shit. They want, like, different personality. It's more about personality. There's so much else to bring that's just as interesting.

Yeah, like your experience is way different than mine and we do different things. And I like, you've definitely evolved as a creator too because now you're kind of finding your niche and what exactly you're doing. Like you have that great Murdof content and stuff. So that's awesome. What would you say is like the message of your platform? Like what do you hope if someone's watching it, what do you want them to take away from it besides the entertainment and the comedy part? Definitely that it, I mean, it's never too late or you've never like, fall in too much to start like turning it around

or pursuing your dream even more than that you know because when I got out I'm like internet creation is for like young people not that I'm old but just like I mean you know I feel that way when I see like younger creators and you know I'm just starting you know I'm I can't do this

you know but you can and that's what I wanted to do and it's not too late and I've been I've made the dumbest choices and been through the most bullshit that I got myself into, but I'm still, I was able to come out and just get blast. And, you know, I'm just putting the work in and pursuing this dream. So it's never too late. You know, you've never been, you never fucked up too bad to where you can't chase your dream.

And then also, just turn, I mean, I love to just think that I've turned a negative into a positive. You know, I'm not trying to, like, glorify anything or what I've been through. But that's kind of why I started doing the comedy. But, you know, just like, how can I take something bad and turn it into something that can be enjoyed, you know, in a better way or just in a harmless way, you know, just turn it into something good. Because, I mean, it happened. I can't change that it happened and that I had to go through that. But I'm just trying to turn it into something good.

Yeah, I admire that shit because it's like comeback stories are awesome and, like, anyone that could take a negative and turn it into a positive. And it's going to inspire people, not even just people that have been to prison. That's why there's more people that haven't been to prison that watch our content. than people that have actually gone to prison. Now, if you could say like we took me out of the picture right now and you could sit across from your 21, 22-year-old self, what do you tell that person? And it's hard to say because a lot of times I wonder it sucks

that, you know, I fucked up and was just that stupid. And so I feel like I'd want to tell him how stupid he is, you know, and just like, bro, like get prepared for a few. And because if I started now and I'm succeeding, you could have started back then and you probably would have found just as much success. But then at the same time, I wonder if I would have learned the same thing because I was so hardheaded. And it took me so much to wake me up. I wonder if I would have been the same person or come to the same realizations and learn the same lessons that I have now if I hadn't have gone through that. You know, so it's kind of, it's kind of hard to say, you know, because you want to say, I don't do that.

but maybe it was for the best, but I don't know. I guess I like to think that if you don't do it, at least give it another five years, you'll probably learn this shit a better, a easier way. Does like the past haunt you, like your past decisions, prison?

And I mean, I guess I would also say, get real, you're not Waka Flaka. Brother like go work on some stand-up, you know, like that's who I really am. Isn't he in jail now too,

Waka-Flocka? No, he's like, no, that's the crazy thing. because like I want to like kick doors because I'm listening to Waka going hard. And then like three years into prison, like I watch like TMZ and they're like, Waka's turned his life around. He's doing great.

He doesn't rob anymore. And he's living his best life. I'm like, well, great. That's awesome, man. Jump suit. Thanks for coming out today, man. Thanks for coming on the show. We appreciate you and we wish you the best man.

Thank you, man. Thank you for having me.