Locked In with Ian Bick - Prison Guard Reveals How Inmates Are Treated On Rikers Island

Episode Date: May 12, 2024

Marlon Fernandez shares his experience of becoming a correctional officer on Rikers Island and reveals how the inmates are actually treated. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Marlon Fernandez: https://www.instagram.com/marlon_fernandez_theactor/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Orientation at the Academy and Corrections 00:04:28 - Growing up and career aspirations 00:09:08 - The Struggle to Make a Living 00:13:42 - Living Conditions in the Prison System 00:18:02 - Pursue What You Love 00:22:13 - Overcoming Obstacles and Pursuing Goals 00:26:19 - The Gray Area of Criminal Justice 00:30:34 - Challenges Working with Others 00:34:47 - Challenges of being a correctional officer 00:38:59 - Living conditions and hygiene in prison 00:43:12 - Corruption and mistreatment in Riker's Island 00:47:24 - Harsh Treatment of Inmates 00:51:36 - Leaving the Job in Frustration 00:56:01 - Rikers Island's Future 01:00:06 - The Importance of Going Through Stages in the Acting Industry 01:04:02 - Acting Tips and Self-Tape Challenges Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Some people won't even come back. This shit was crazy. They'll go, they'll go, people, everybody will come back, they'll take attendance, and they'll go, all right. Next thing you know, they're realizing names are missing. They're like, oh, he left. Left. So just by listening, just by them talking during orientation, people were getting, I don't know what, but it was like, nah, people were probably like, no, I can't do this.

Welcome back to the Lockton with the InBIC podcast. On today's episode, we have another correctional officer here to share his experience working on Rikers Island, and he reveals the conditions and how inmates are actually treated on the infamous Rikers Island. I want to give a big thanks and shout out to everyone that tunes into the show week after week and sometimes even watches and listens to all three of the episodes we put out weekly. I would not be here without you guys. Locked in would not be a top 200 podcast in the world for society and the culture if it wasn't for you guys either. I'm greatly appreciative. And if you guys

could help continue to spread the word, push out your favorite episode on your Instagram, on your Twitter, on your Facebook, share it with a friend. And remember to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a review on Spotify and Apple. And just continue to. to tune into Lockton. It means the absolute world, guys. Now, without further ado, let's get into this episode. So sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with Marlon Fernandez. How do you pronounce your name Marlon?

Marlon. Marlon. Like Marlon Brando, right? Yeah, Marlon. Marlon. Where's that come from? Marlon Brando, typically. That's where your parents gave you the name Marlon from?

Well, typically my father, I got the name for my dad. My dad, my grandmother gave him the name. Funny story. My uncle, who passed away, when my father was born, he had told my grandmother, they were looking for names. And they were like, nah, bro, you got a name of Marlin. Like, Marlon Brando. So that's where that name came from. She named him Marlon.

I named my son Marlon. Oh, he's a Marlin too? Yeah, so there's three Marlins. It's crazy. We'd be in places. And they'd be like, Marlon, everybody looking around. Who are you talking about? Like, which Marlonon?

Is there, like, a junior? a senior name? There's no really not written. You know, there's nothing really like Marlin Jr. We just go by all Marlins. You know, you look like a Marlin. Like, you know when someone gets a name and then you can see it, like you can't see them with a different name.

Like, I couldn't picture me with a different name. Like it fits, you know? It's interesting when you look at that, like later on. But Marlon, welcome to Lockton. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Pleasure having you today. You drove in from Long Island.

Yes, sir. Easy ride, I hope. Yeah, man. Luckily, no traffic, no nothing. Yeah, I used to work in Long Island at Massapequa. Oh, yeah. Yeah, when I worked for Whole Foods. And sometimes I would come back when I was living in like a little Airbnb, a room for like $1,300 a month.

But I would drive back to my parents' house to stay twice a week. And it was always hit or miss with the traffic. It's either really bad or there's no traffic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Depends on the time, too. Yeah. So you are a former Rikers Island correctional officer. Yes, sir.

When we label things, prison guard versus correctional officer, I always see a lot of people get up in arms about that. How does that make you feel as someone that was a former officer there? When you say prison guard or correctional officer, in all honesty, it's the same thing. I mean, when you say prison guard, you say correction officer to me, the definition is the same. It's just a different, using a different term. Do you think it's offensive? Like saying prison guard? I wouldn't, I mean, typically me, if you would have said, oh,

also used to be a prison guard. I wouldn't really get offended, to be honest. I don't really think there's, like I said, I don't really think there's a difference between the two. I think that two behind of it, they really mean the same thing. Yeah. It's just a different term you're using.

I guess there's like a negative connotation with prison guard, like as if it's like demeaning towards a job. Yeah. But I look at them both the same way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I say someone's a prison guard, I don't mean it in a disrespectful way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So did you grow up in New York? Yeah, I grew up in Queens. Okay. Corona, Corona, New York. Big family? Big family, Spanish, Dominican. grew up mostly my mother's side of the family. My father's side of the family, they're from Washington Heights, uptown.

I used to love going up there. You know, I had one of the best times of my life, you know, hanging out in Washington Heights. It's full of Dominican. Dominicans everywhere. You know what I'm saying? Best food, best everything. Parties, everything. You know, really loving, really welcoming family.

Yes, I grew up, went to school in Queens as well. to high school there, finished high school, went to college, went to John Jay College. For criminal justice? Yeah, criminal justice. I wanted to be like a, my intentions were like trying to be,

I wanted to be like a lawyer, you know. I had a lot of family members, you know, that went through the system, you know, that had to do prison time, uncles, my father, cousins. So, you know, I wanted to be part of the team to kind of, you know, took help. You know, that's me.

You know, anything I do, whatever career path, whatever I choose to do, I want to help in any way possible. So, you know, seeing them go through that, seeing a lot of things. I was like, you know what? I think, you know, I want to be on that side. I don't want to be no DA, no district attorney. I ain't fucking with that, you know. But I'll be a lawyer. You know what I'm saying?

The money's good. You know, all that. So it's a good career. So, yeah, I went to John Jay, graduated from John Jay. and then my plan started to shift. I'm like, damn, I just graduated. I'm fucking exhausted. Doing these four years, I got a bachelor's degree.

I'm like, damn, I got to go to law school now. It's another three years. I got to take the LSAT. It's like the SAT when it comes to going to college, except the LSAT is like for law school, for those everyone probably knows that already. So I'm like, fuck that damn now, you know. So I'm last, so I just applied to keep going to John Jay,

but in the master's program, you know, to get a master's degree through John Jay in a different major, whether, you know, public administration or whatever the case may be. Weirdly, after getting my bachelor's in John Jay, they didn't even accept me to get a master's day, which was weird, you know, which was really, really weird.

So I said, screw it, whatever. So, and then I had like two years after that, no work. Mind you, graduating with a bachelor's degree, from a city, one of the best colleges in the state, and I couldn't find the job. You know, I was picking up gigs here and there. You know what I'm saying?

Like summer gigs here and there, like seasonal jobs. And it was really, it was hard, man. It was frustrating because I'm like, damn, I just invested all this time, you know, bust the mask, going to school, sacrificing. And it's like, damn, because with college and a lot of people know this too, it's like you go to school, you got your degree,

here you go, good luck. Keep going. And it's like, damn, all right. Now, you got to do the work. You got to be out there. You got to look. John Jay is good. More for like individuals I want to say that I want to be police. I want to be cops. You know what I'm saying? Because they recruit students right out of John Jay. Like while you're studying in John Jay, you're already on the map. You're already in the process of becoming a cop. You know, so those people are, they're right in. You know, they fall right in. They take them, they pull them right from there.

How much of those four years were actually dedicated to learning about criminal justice? That's a good question. So the first two years, it's totally two years because the first two years are going through the general requirements. General classes you got to take like high school stuff, math, English, writing, you know, stuff like that. Stuff that didn't pertain to my major. So it was like being in high school all over again for those first two years, which was a little, you know, it was a little boring. You know, so after the two years is when it got a little interesting. where I'm taking like law, law classes, learning about different penal codes, learning about the law, and learning different things.

So after two years when I became like a junior in college was when it started to get a little interesting and I started to like a little more. Then the work started to bump up and got a little intense. But so that's how that went. Like I mentioned, graduated. Couldn't find no work. I was picking up summer jobs. And then along the road, I got with. who my fiance is now.

My fiance gets pregnant, my first son. So now I'm desperate. Now I'm like, shit. What the fuck? The fuck am I going to do? You know what I'm saying? How old was I at the time? 23 years old.

I'm still a kid. I'm thinking I know what the fuck I'm doing. I think I know about it. I don't know nothing. Now that I think of it, I'm like, I didn't know what I was doing. I'm thinking, you think, oh, baby. Baby's coming. Oh, fun.

People don't understand when that kid comes, how real it gets you know it's real um so that's something that's yours forever that's something that's going to depend on you that person's going to be dependent on you for the rest of their life as far as far as you know so i'm like all right i'm pick i was working at i picked up the job in uh and uh a couple of kids i had when my when my fiancee was pregnant i picked up a job driving you know I was a driver for a pesticide company delivering freaking bait and shit for insects and shit and mats and mouse. Then I picked up another gig working at UPS over night. I like two in the morning.

I wake up at like two in the morning. I was there from like four in the morning until nine in the morning. I was like a package handler, the damn warehouse, making like 200 bucks a week. Like, what the fuck is that? You know what I'm saying? So it was hard, man. struggling all this time, you know, living in my parents' apartment, you know what I'm saying, during this time and figuring out, right, how the hell am I going to get out of here?

How am I going to get my own place? How am I going to do this? So from there, I'm taking tests, taking city tests. I took corrections. I took MTA, sanitation. I took a few tests along the way. So this correction calls So I'm like, okay, I'm a little excited

You know what I'm saying? I'm thinking. I'm running the, I'm looking at it And I'm like, all right, how old am I now? 23, 24, 20 year retirement, 44, I be retired. Shit, I'm looking at my father. My father's like 45 at the time.

So I'm like, shit, I'll be retired at his age. You know what I'm saying? He's still moving around. He's still doing his thing. I'm like, all right, I'll be good. Start a whole new life after that, you know? I'm like, fuck it. You know what I'm saying?

And I wasn't really worried about, you know, anything because I knew by me just being myself, I was going to be fine. You know, I grew up in that environment where shit was going on. You know what I'm saying? Things that those guys are in there for I was seeing guys doing all the time. You know, I was living in the neighborhood where these kind of things were happening. So I wasn't really worried about none of that. You know what I'm saying?

So, all right. They called, went through the process, went through everything, the background, investigation, all that, gave me the date to start the academy, started the academy. Academy was cool. Academy's like fucking high school. It's like being in school. You know what I'm saying? You're getting paid, but, you know, it's like being in school, you know, studying, books, all that.

then I get sent Academy was like six months at the time then they put me they placed me in and I see North Infirmary Command so the North Infirmary Command has its

pros and cons It's one of the one of the I want to say they say it's one of the one of the preferred buildings to work in being that The majority of that building houses a lot of people that are like disabled or in wheelchairs or are sick have like life, life, like diseases and stuff, like threatening sicknesses, like AIDS and stuff like that.

However, so working in those areas are, you know, not as bad. However, there are two floors in that building, which they call the main, so there's an annex and there's a main. So in the main, there's two floors that they call the second and third floor where they house the worst of the worst. Like, the inmates there, like, the worst of the worst. Like, these are people that, most of the people they put there, people that you see on, you know, shit that you see on the news that just happened. You know what I'm saying? Fuck around.

Then you go to work and you find out, oh, shit, that guy's right there. You know what I'm saying? You were just watching the news. Shit, you would see on the news and then you go to work. And then you find out, oh, shit, you're working in the housing area and that dude's in the cell right there. You know what I'm saying? Like nothing.

So, and that must have been probably the craziest shit I saw. Because in these housing areas, in that specific area. And these are the areas that, you know, I'm new. So when you knew, they throw you in the war, they throw you straight in the war zone. You ain't going on those sweet little spots where, you know, people in wheelchairs and all that.

So when I got there, these housing areas I like. So there's cells. The cells are lined up. But within the cells, the cells are like within cages. So it's like a cell inside a cell. if that makes any sense, but it's the craziest shit I've ever seen. You know, and these guys are in there for like 22, 23 hours a day. You know, they come out maybe for an hour for wreck,

and then other than that, maybe to shower, and that's about it, or if they got any other services that they go to, but that's pretty much it. You know, these guys are in there. Hannity presents in the Red Corner, the undisputed, undefeated weed whacker guys. Champion of hurling grass and pollen everywhere. And in the blue corner, the challenger, extra strength,

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No, no, this isn't even... This is just a separate area. Yeah, this is just an area, regular day area. This is like a regular area for them. This is how they live in each and every day. And they're not even in the box. They're not in nothing. This is just...

Because they're maxed security units. Yeah, yeah, they call it CMC unit. What kind of charges are in there? Serious. They got areas in there where they got cops that they arrest. They got a whole housing area just for them. Cops that get arrested, whether if it's for murder or for whatever they do, they put them in a certain place.

You got guys in there that they put them there because they're assaulted other officers in other areas or in other buildings, whether they cut them in their face or whether, whatever the case may be. But murder serious charges. Why are they sending a brand new officer to a unit like this? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense at all. The reason why they do that is because the people that have time there, I don't know what you want to call it. I guess they have say, I don't want to go over there.

Send a new guy over there. I'm not fucking working over there. So it's political. It's all politics. Send a new guy. I don't want to fucking go over there. Send him over there. Let him, you know, let him learn and him figure it out.

But you know, you see all these news articles about how understaffed the prison system is. And this is a perfect reason why. This is why, you know, a lot of people, a lot of people leave. Even in the academy, I seen craziest shit the first day of the fucking academy within 20 minutes. You would see, not even the academy, the orientation of corrections. within the first 20 minutes they'll call a break some people won't even come back

this shit was crazy they'll go they'll go people everybody will come back they'll take attendance and they'll go all right next thing you know they're realizing names are missing they're like oh he left left so just by listening just by them talking during orientation

people were getting I don't know what but they were like now people were probably like nah I can't do this shit are there a lot of women in the academy Yeah. What's the breakdown you think percentage-wise? I want to say for the most part, I want to say mostly men, a little bit more than half, mostly men, maybe 60, 70% men, the rest female. And it's early 20s?

A lot of them were in the early 20s. Because that's something I've seen on the show, like Stephen Dominguez was early 20s when he joined. Leroy, Ebron, the Rikers Island CEO, I was showing you the video of that went viral. He was early 20s. So are there older people in the academy or not at all? Funny you say that. There was maybe one lady that was there. Because there's really no age from, I don't know if it was a change now,

but there's really no age like a max. There was a lady there that was like maybe 60 years old. Believe it or not, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was crazy. Everyone knew who she was because of that. So everyone really like respected. Like, you know what I'm saying?

So she did really good in the academy. Like she did really, really good. And what are the prerequisites to joining the academy? All you really need, as far as education-wise, there's really no really work experience. It's really education. You really need, you just need a certain amount of college credits. So you do need college degree. Yeah, you need not a degree per se.

You just need a certain amount of credits from college, whether it's like, I think it's like 40, 42 credits. That's like a year and a half of college. That's all you really need, like an associate's or a little bit before that or so. But you don't need typically a degree. All you need is a high school diploma. How do you feel about your kids going to college after you've experienced all this? It's funny because, you know, me and my fiance, we talk all the time. And we're like, oh, when I kiss going, I'm like, honestly, I'm going to go with whatever they want to do.

You know, you guys want to go to college. I'm going to support you. You don't want to go to college. You want to tell me, Dad, I want to do this. I want to invest in this. I want to. I got you. You know what I'm saying?

Whatever you want to do, I'm going to support you. And I feel like that's something that nowadays, and this has probably been going on forever, the reason why a lot of people take up certain careers and do certain things is, because their parents want them to do it, not because they typically want to do it. You know what I'm saying? They feel like, damn, my mother, I want to do this, but I follow my parents, you really want me to. And then you do it, but you don't do it happily.

You don't do it like you want it. You know what I'm saying? So it's hard. You're not really interested in it. And then, you know, you don't really give it your all because you don't really like it. So I'm really big on doing what you love, doing what you want to do and support.

Support is fucking huge. And nowadays, you don't get that shit. You know, a lot of people, it's like going to the gym. I know people that you don't go to the gym. Oh, I got nobody to go with. Fuck you mean, you got nobody to go with. Bro? Who were you born?

You were born by your damn self. Bro, nobody was born with you. I think it's distracting to go with someone sometimes. I rather go on my own. Because you're talking shit. Yeah, you're bullshit. I'd rather go alone, too. Yeah, I think it depends on who you go with, 100%.

And I hate that unless you got like a trainer. Somebody who's training you and all right, but when I hear shit like that, that shit is just stupid. You know what I'm saying? Because, and that goes to say that you're not going to always nine times out of 10. You're not going to have that person there. Nobody's going to wake up and like, all right, hmm, how am I going to help Marlon today? How am I going to get him to accomplish his dreams? And people don't fucking care.

People do not care. You know what I'm saying? So what I'm trying to do is, you know, create my own little alliance between my, own little family and create something that where I'm always going to support them when no matter what they want to do my son tells me that I want to go work and I want to be a dishwasher that's what you like that's what you love go ahead boy go ahead do it you know what I'm saying like I just want them to do what they love whatever they want whatever makes them happy because that's what's important you make good money as a dishwasher you can like if you work your way up in a corporate place

hell yeah yeah the dishwashers at whole food some of them are making almost you know $22 a hour yeah yeah yeah yeah it's not terrible if it's not a bad game And then people don't see the, in a lot of jobs, people don't see the, the, I don't want to know that the cons, the pros and things. People just look at, people ask you, oh, what do you do? Oh, people look at what, you know, right away. People don't understand, like, there's more to certain things. There's more to certain careers, you know, where you can go, how far you can go.

And I think it's super important to be self-dependent or to be independent and to figure out, you know, what you want to do. And that's why we were talking about not having a team or. doing anything like that because it's certain things, you're responsible for yourself. Exactly. And if you put yourself in a position where you have to constantly depend on other people, it's not going to happen. I mean, that's why a lot of, like, corporations kind of fall apart or they're counting on

their employees to show up. And when those employees don't love what they're doing, it's not going to put out a great quality service. So that's a huge key component to it. It's huge because, like you said, they're not showing up or they call it not sick. Why? Because they don't love it. They don't really want to do it.

So of course not. So that's why, you know, like a lot of people, I respect people that do things on their own, you know. They said they come up with their own business or, you know, it's just dumb in their family member or whatever the case may be. They keep a small team, you know, that they trust and that they can grow with, which is big. But, yeah, that goes to say support, like I mentioned, I think it's huge and motivation. It's called self-motivation. You got to just have that. And that's not something you can teach someone.

Like, I can't teach somebody. you can tell someone, you can try to drill it in them. I'm like, look, listen, this is how things are. You're going to have to, and they can hear you out, but you can't really teach someone that. You got to just, you got to find a way to have that in you. Yeah, you got to have that it factor. You got to have it. There's people that they don't do certain things because, you know, they're depressed.

They're stressed out, so you don't feel like getting up. You know, they're not, they don't want to look for a job because they just broke up with their girl. And maybe they're going through some shit and, dude, you got to get up. It's only going to get worse. You know what I'm saying? You got to keep moving. You know what I'm saying? And a lot of things like that hold people back, you know what I'm saying, from what they want to do?

Things, shit in life holds you. Like, there's people that want to do, whether you want to be a rapper or you want to be active, whatever you want to do. But then certain shit phases in your life can kind of hold you back from that, whether it's responsibilities and other things. But you got to kind of find a way through those holes to get to where you want to go. that's just life. Yeah. And I think when you find your purpose, like your life's purpose, like what you want to do, that things that happen along the way won't derail you.

Exactly. Like if I lost something right now, I have an ultimate mission that I'm on that will keep me on track. Exactly. Whereas if I worked a normal job, because like I remember, like when I was working a normal job and I'd go through a breakup or something would happen, I don't want to go to fucking work. Like I don't, because I don't have to. Exactly.

With this, I have to show up to this interview. I can't call you and say. oh, I had a bad night last night. You know, I'm not doing the interview. Exactly. So that keeps you on track. Exactly. And a lot of people who don't have that.

You know, you got to have that in you. And that's something I'm really big on. You know, I could be, I can go to work one day and be all smiles like, meanwhile, look like the happiest person in the world. Meanwhile, you don't know what the fuck just happened before I got here. You don't know what the fuck transpired the night before. And this morning, I could have went through God knows what. these past two days,

but no one will never know. You know what I'm saying? Because in reality, I'm really big on, like, I don't really like, I'm not really an excuse type of person. I don't really like giving excuses, you know? To me, it's like,

all right, that happened. That's understandable. You know, it's like, it's like paying your bills, paying your rent. Shit, what are you going to do? You try to pay your rent at the end of the month and you tell your landlord, damn,

excuse me, but me and my girl broke up, you know, and I haven't been feeling well, you know, I got sick one week. I had to take off of work for a month and, you know, my car hasn't been working, so I had a drop some money in my car, you know, and I was going to go, oh, yeah? Well, where's the rent? You know, all right, that's fine. I'm sorry to hear that, but where's the rent for the month?

Where's the rent money? They don't care about none of that shit. So what are you going to do? You know, you have to keep moving and not, you got to figure that out. You got to just have that. Yeah, it's funny you say that because when I was a kid running businesses and stuff, and I never had the money for vendors, and I would always, like, tell my landlord for the club

or whatever that I owed to, and I'd give them all these excuses. And when I look back on it now, it's like, it's not their fucking problem. It's not, yeah. Like, that was on me to figure it out. I was, like, I was in over my head and not moving correctly. But, like, now, it's just,

it's totally different when you have that knowledge and power. Yeah, because you figure it out, you know. I was like that as well, you know. And growing up, I was really naive. You know, as a kid, I thought everyone was nice. The world was just this friendly fucking place where everybody was cool and everybody was nice and everybody is understanding and everybody wants the best for you. But as life goes on and you see certain things and you witness certain things and you go through certain things you realize it's really not. Like right now I feel like the majority of the world is really for themselves.

Like it's how I see it, it's every man for themselves right now for themselves or for themselves in their circle, whether it's their wife, their family and stuff like that. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? No, you were mentioning that you had family that was in the system. How'd they feel about you, one, wanting to go into law enforcement and then two, going into corrections at Rikers Island, which I'm sure some of your family members were incarcerated on? Yeah. No, they were typically, they were telling me. They were like, yeah, you know, you should pursue it.

It's a good gig. You know, you retire and, you know, all the good stuff. You know, you retire in 20 years. But the majority of them were already in the system. them already working there. One had just retired, maybe two years before I had joined, and then the others, the others were probably already, like, halfway through, halfway through retiring and more than halfway through retiring. So I wouldn't really, I wouldn't really see them as much, but, you know, they were for it. What about the ones that had gotten arrested? Did you have family

members that were ever in the system? Oh, of course. Yeah. How did they feel? They kind of supported me in the way. They were like, no, it's a good job. They put all that shit aside. They were like, no, you know, it's a good job. You should try it. You know, I think you'll do fine. You know what it is. You know what I'm saying? You grew up. You know, you've seen us. You've been in the area. You grew up and in the environment. So you'll be fine. You know what I'm saying? And again, I'm the type of person that I'm always myself. You know, I don't try to be something I'm not. I'm not trying. Like, I was always myself. So I never had any issues as a correctional. I never did. Never had no issues at all, you know. Because the inmates, they see that. They know,

all right, yeah, he, they used to call me, my last thing, Fernandez. So they will call me F. So nah, F is real, you know, he cool, he cool people, you know what I'm saying? I was in like, you know, busting nobody's chops, you know what I'm saying, being on, I wasn't, nah, man. I would last, I would last the majority of the tour just talking, talking to these guys, going from cell to cell, just, yo, what up, man, it's good. Talking shit, whether it's about the game, the baseball game, or whatever the fuck it was, just talking, man, because the majority of the time, these guys, they just want to talk. They just want someone to talk to. You know what I'm saying? They locked in there for, like, 23.

like I mentioned, 22, 23 hours a day. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes you're staring at the wall. You know, they just want to talk. So. Does that make you think about humans and, like, the psychology behind it? Like, some of these guys commit maybe murders or horrible crimes, and you're just having a conversation with them about baseball. Yeah.

But society doesn't see that aspect of it. They don't see it like that. And that goes to say, it's messed up because society will see it as, oh, no, this guy's a murder. That's it. He's a murder. Don't fucking talk to him. Get away from him. He's a murder. That's it.

And it's fucked up because, you know, everyone deserves a chance. You don't know maybe what that's at. You don't know if the person was suffering from, you know, mental health or he was suffering from something that we don't know about. You know, we don't know. There's always more to everything. And I feel like society, especially the court system, they don't care. You know what I'm saying?

They don't care. Half the time, more than half the time, you know, when people, you know, when people, go to trial for certain cases, and then their lawyers are trying to bring in all these expert witnesses, like doctors and therapists that are talking about, yeah, to prove that this person was suffering from this, suffering from that, suffering from that,

so all these list of things are medication. Then when they go to sentence, they're still going to give them 25 years to life. Like, all that was like, no less to say, like it didn't even matter. At Hyundai of Glendale, Lisa New, 2,26 Hyundai, Tucson, SC, front wheel drive for 269 a month,

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PH 71529, PH7159. But he still did this, so none of that shit matters. It's such a gray area because you look at maybe someone that, like, harmed a child, and you are harmed a woman or anything. That's who, yeah. There's this gray area of, okay, they did this horrible thing, but then there's also like they're a human too. Yeah.

And you have to be compassionate. Exactly. But then you also, they have to face the consequences of their action. Yeah. And I feel like right now society, it's either one way or the other. There's no in between of having like a balance. Yeah, no. You either got a.

And that's true. That's true what you're saying. But like I mentioned, again, these guys that are there, specifically in Rikers Island, you know, they're innocent until proven guilty. That's what you're doing there in Rikers Island. You're not serving time. You're not serving time. You know, there is a building there.

There's one building that, you know, usually, like, if you get sentenced like a year or less, they might put you in. You might just do your time there. But I want to say 99.9% of the people in Rikers Island are not sentenced yet. You know, they're going to trial. They're fighting their case. So the way I see it is everybody should be treated fairly, you know. You shouldn't.

If someone's on trial for whatever it is doesn't mean that, oh, don't talk to this. Don't fuck with him because this is and that way. You know what I'm saying? And that is another issue that's going on right now where, you know, new, I feel like new officers that are coming on. You know, let's say, you know, they're building relationship with the inmates. You know, they're learning the job. You know, they're learning everything. You know, a lot of old officers would come like specifically with me and they'll be like, oh, yeah, that dude, whatever, whatever, don't.

I don't like them. So don't. What do you mean? You don't like him? So you're telling me not to talk to him, not to, what the fuck, you know, what that got? Like, what does it have to do with me? What do you mean?

But they wouldn't really say, you know, why or just, you know, now I don't, if he asks you for this, don't give him shit. And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, why? Why are you telling me not to give him shit for if he asks me for services or whatever the case may be? So I wouldn't have a pain no mind when they would tell me that shit.

I would just go about me, you know? Go about my business and go by my tour and do what I needed to do and treat everybody fair. You know, I'll bypass all that information. But that just goes to say how it's fucked up right now because it's like, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of times, too, these CEOs, they'll look at you like, they'll look at you like as the outsider if you're doing that, you know? Oh, you're not, oh, you, you may tell your friends, oh, they're your friends now. And it's like, you know what I'm saying? weird. It's really, really, really weird. But, you know, me, I was really just strictly

on my own path trying to go down a road. You know, I had a goal. You know, so I'm like, you know what? I'm going to do what I got to do. You know, I'm going to stick to myself. But it's hard to stick to yourself in that and that kind of job because you got to work with other offices, you know, most of the time. You can't just work by yourself. You know, you're on the floor and then there's another officer. Usually there's only two offices, you know, went off a son on the floor, another one in the booth, or outside in the control room, whatever the case may be. But you've got to work with other people.

So a lot of times you might not be on the same page with everyone. And then when you're new, sometimes it's kind of hard to, you know, do certain things the way you want to do it because they're going to expect you to do it how they want to do it. No, on a shift, isn't there one point CEO that's working? Like I know in the Fed, they would be, say, three officers working. and then one would be the point,

then there would be the second point, then the third point. Yeah, how they call it, in other words, it's like one officer on the floor, and then there'll be one, like, let's say if there's a booth, like the B officers on the floor, with all the inmates,

and then the other officers in, like, let's say the bubble and the booth. So typically there's only two. I wouldn't really say three. For the most part, it's just two. One is like away from everything, like hitting half of the time, or the majority, almost all the time.

and then the other half of the time, it's the B office on the floor, you know, during the tour. And then sometimes you ain't going nowhere. Sometimes you're there for eight hours and then you think you're going home. And it's like, right, uh, where's my relief at? I got to get the fuck out. Next thing, you know, you get a call from the control room.

They're like, I'm going to need you to stay there until, and you're like, mind you, you're getting ready to leave. And it's like, fuck, like, damn. You know what I'm saying? That shit's hard for someone who has a family. you know what I'm saying and you got you know

you got arrangements and shit like that next thing you know you don't even know when you're going home the shit is so crazy there was times where I'll be done with my tour

I go to the locker room change I'll be walking out the door Ian I'm walking out fucking captain open the door right on me what day they call it so in corrections is they call it

you work four days and you're off too so I ask you what they it is for you. Usually when it's your first day of the week or your last day, they'll try to keep you there for like a 50th year last day of the week. They'll try to keep you there for as long as they could. So a lot of times I'm like, fuck, my last, you know, I didn't know what the fuck to say. I'm like, damn, fuck, should I say it's my second, my third? Fuck. So I'll be like, I need you to go somewhere. Go back down, go change and I'll be like, damn. You know what I'm

saying? That I got to call home and be like, listen, man, I'm sorry. I can't, you know, I can't make it to this or that. We can't, you know, whatever arrangements I had, I would have to switch everything around. And it's hard, you know, when you got a family, you got, like, that job is good for people that, you know what I'm saying, that young people, like in the early 20s that I'm trying to get somewhere that are figuring it out. Because it's hard when you got a family to be a correction officer. A lot of people leave because of that reason. You know, I'm saying that they're not home. You're there more than you are in your house. Yeah, I mean, they save the other person that spends just as much as time in prisons and jails as

the correctional officers as inmates, if not more. Because if you're working 20 years and someone's serving a 10-year sentence, you're doing more time than the guy that did the 10-year sentence. Exactly. You're in there with them. You know what I'm saying? So that's mandated over time. Like you can't say, I'm going home.

Like, you have to do that, right? Typically, you have to. If you're ordered by a captain, you have to stay. There's people that, you know what I'm saying, that have been there quite a while. They leave. But I'm not fucked that. You mean I'm saying I'm out. You know what I'm saying?

I've been there maybe 10 years or 15 years or so. But me, I'm fucking new. I ain't shit. You know what I'm saying? So I'm just trying to keep my job. So I'm like, damn, you know, whatever. You know what I'm saying? And that, you know, that's what I was scared of.

I was scared of losing my job. You know what I'm saying? Because I had a baby on the way. You know, I have people depending on me. I'm the only one employed at the time. So I was just trying to, you know, do what I had to do to keep working. Have you ever seen mistakes happen when someone's like, say, work in a double, like forgetting to maybe lock a cell or maybe acting rude to an inmate

and then that inmate retaliates. People get frustrated, you know what I'm saying, when you work in that long, you know? Sometimes you might fall asleep. You're there 14, 15 hours we fall out. Captain walk in. Oh, shit, that's a, depending on the relationship you got with the captain, that could be automatic write-up or they might give you, they might tell you, oh, yo, get up, man, go to the bathroom, wash your face, come back, you know, if they know you've been there for, like,

13, 14 hours already. So shit can happen, you know. I've seen doors like, you know, forget to be unlocked, you know what I'm saying? Important shit, like emergency exit doors and shit like that. So shit like that does happen and it's a lot because of all the shit that's going on at the same time. You know what I'm saying?

The amount of time you're there for. Sometimes you're not even relieved for a meal, for a break. And your meal's like, well, I think like, I can't remember like 40 minutes. So it's crazy. You know what I'm saying? So. Yeah.

And from an inmate's perspective, Like when that happens when the guards are doing the OT, sometimes we get neglected because we miss a shower or like when we're in the shoe in solid air or whatever. Exactly. And that screws up a system because in our minds we're programmed to have this system. Yeah, yeah. So it could suck and there could have like mental effects and cause anger.

And that's one thing that and that's one thing in there. You have to follow through, you know, if you tell a house, okay, every day there's a schedule. Services are at a certain time. recreation is usually at a certain time breakfast, lunch, all that, dinner is usually at a certain time. So when you're not following through,

you know, and the inmates are cooperating, they say, you're like, listen, sorry, this and this happened, but, you know, we're on it though. You know, half the time, majority of the time, they'll be like, I, you know, but, you know, if it's something

that happens consistently and consistently, you know, they tend to get upset. Of course, if they're entitled, if you're entitled to something and you're not getting it, of course you're going to get upset. Of course you're entitled to a shower. you're entitled to recreation for an hour on a certain day your services, you know.

So when they're not getting the services, when they're supposed to, of course, you're going to get upset. You know, and a lot of that happens because of, like you mentioned, because either the staff or people forgetting or sometimes CEOs don't even want to deal with a certain housing area. So they won't even go. Excuse me, they won't even go. Let's say, let me give you an example, a house, let's say 2C, whatever, 2C, whatever, 2C, whatever. the case may be. They'll look at the names, they'll be like, oh, no, I don't want to take that to it out.

I don't want to deal with that. And it's fucked up because then now, um, the office on the floor that's working there has to kind of deal with that. Because now the M.A.'s asking, yo, what's up on my wreck? What's up on my wreck? And you're calling recreation officer like,

yo, what's up? You guys coming to get them. And sometimes they'll say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It might not even come. It might not even come. And then this is just building. and it's building and it's building and it could lead to other things you know how are the living conditions actually for inmates on rikers it's hard bro like what's the truth behind it because the media

you know when they get invited into prisons they never get the full story in a setting like this you know we get the truth yeah they never really show the media as far as in there as far as but it's hard in there bro it's really really hard you know they get maybe one as far as like you know it is dirty in there. It is really dirty in there. What do you mean by dirty? As far as like, you know, simple as the showers.

You know what I'm saying? The showers are not, you know, they got like a team that comes in and cleans up. You know what I'm saying? They call them the, uh,

it's sanitation. I think it's sanitation. If I can remember, sanitation will come and clean up or whatever the case may be, but they'll come once, maybe a day.

You know what I'm saying? But the amount of stuff that goes on there, a day, you know what I'm saying? It's not a, You know, it's not enough for them. And then at the same time, too, you know, they'll give these guys one toothbrush.

It's like one of everything. Like, dude, how are you going to give, you know, these people are entitled to more? You know what I'm saying? And so it's hard, you know, it's hard as far as, you know, what they're giving them, you know, hygienic stuff just for them to survive every day. They're not giving them enough as opposed to what they need, you know. Is that because there's not enough supplies or is it because you guys are being ordered, don't give out more than one. To be honest, now you say that,

I never work commissary, but I remember sometimes, you know, I would cease a mental goal, they'll go to commissary, they'll go to get this shit, and it's like, they'll be like, let me get, they'll be like, nah, I'm only giving you one. And I'm like, what you mean?

But not here, just, you know. Now, I don't know, I don't know if they're being, or if the commissary officers are being told by their supervisor to not give them a certain amount or they just don't have. but, you know, that is something that I did definitely see, and it's fucked up, you know what I'm saying?

What about the toilet paper situation? Because in the feds, it's very sacred. Like, they only pass it out twice a month. They have, like, a name on a list, all of that. How does that work at Rikers? Yeah, that toilet paper shit is crazy. I don't know you say that you just remind me. When he asks for paper, usually they'll tell you to take the paper

and rip it, roll it, and then give them like a piece. How the fuck you're going to give? That shit is crazy. Normally, I'll just give them a whole roll. Like, if they'll ask me, I'd be like, here, I'll just give it to them. How the fuck you're going to take, what is he? You roll, like, what, like, not even two, three layers of toilet paper. How are they going to use the bathroom with that?

That shit is crazy. So, like I said, typically, I'll just give them. I'll just give it to them. Right, here, I'll give them the whole row. Like, here, just take it. I'm not going to, you know. On the topic of toilet paper, what are some unique and, like, crazy things you've seen damage-wise to a cell with toilet paper? Like, I remember we used to put toothpaste on and cover.

the vents and, you know, they'd overflow the toilets and everything like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do that. I've seen that. Like, I've seen the toilets overflowed, um, like you mentioned. But with toilet paper, I don't really seen much as much as far as like, uh, cells being damaged and stuff. It's more like, you know, written stuff and writing in the cells and stuff like that. But with toilet paper, not really, like I've heard of, I've heard of, I've never actually witnessed it but I've heard of um this one inmate that was there he would like he would save like his feces

like he would use it and he would save it he would put it in the thing of toilet paper and then if he didn't like you he would throw that shit at you yeah I heard that that's common at rikers like to get feces thrown in yeah yeah yeah that shit does happen why why does that happen I guess it's a sense of anger you know if you're upset you know I'm not gonna put my hands on you but I'm gonna throw I'm gonna throw this bucket of shit at you I'm gonna throw this bucket of urine at you you know what I'm saying

And how do they do that if they're in the cells? I mean, it's, I haven't, typically I haven't witnessed it, like I mentioned. However, there's gaps in between the cells, you know, because there's gates. So you can just easily flick something at somebody. Oh, so these are barred cells. They're not like the door, the metal door where it has a tray slot. No, no, no. They're like, well, where I was at, most of them were bars.

Okay. You know what I'm saying? Now, did you work in this max unit your whole time there? In the beginning, no, because in the beginning they try to like, uh, uh, uh, uh, like slow you into it. So they had me like in the annex, like with the people in the wheelchair and stuff like that. And they slowly started pushing me there to that, to that area.

And that's where you fulfilled the rest of your time there? For the most part, yeah. That's kind of where I was at until I left. Now, something like Stephen Dominguez showed us was that there was a ton of corruption in Rikers Island. Are you seeing and witnessing that firsthand as an officer? What I'm seeing, what I've noticed a lot is, like I mentioned, is like as far as the maltreatment to the inmates like it's just like I mentioned it's just not fair the

way they treat them like we mentioned before the services they're not giving them the services they're entitled to or or what um what they're supposed to get or they're denying them services like let's say if a if an inmate has let's say uh counseling at a certain time and let's say they don't like them fuck that when i when i know cut that for him for the day how are you going to do that Because now you're giving the officer that's on the floor, you're going to get him. Now he has to kind of deal with that because the M.A. is going to be asking him, you know, what's up with this, what's up with this? And you don't know what to do.

You're calling. And you're like, damn, you know what I'm saying? You're trying to figure it out. And they're probably ignoring the officer. You know what I'm saying? Just to not deal with it. But luckily, I didn't really have to go through any of that kind of stuff. But definitely, as far as that, the maltreatment is definitely huge right now there.

And it's just not fair. And that's really the main reason I want to say why I had to leave and I had to resign because I didn't agree. I didn't agree with any of that, you know, with the way that we're being treated and the way. I feel like you're wherever you're at, whatever career you're in, it's mostly because you support what they're doing or you support that. I wasn't supporting that. I wasn't for that. You know, I wasn't agreeing with that. That wasn't me.

So I say, you know what? It's time for me to step away. And I stepped away and I left. How many years did you do there? I was only there for like a year. Oh, you just a year? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you had enough after a year.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was that bad. It was there for a year. And the reason why it was because I kind of saw where things were going. So I'm the type of person where if I see where something is going and I see it already the direction that's heading on, you know what, all right. Let me remove myself now before this gets worse, you know. So I felt like it was the time for me to. Where do you think the problem stems from?

Is it the higher ups? Is it the state level? Is it just the officers in general? Where do you think the problem stems? I think it's just the officers themselves. You know what I'm saying? And then, you know, dumb just wanting to do shit they want to do the way they want to do it, you know, and doing whatever they want. That's pretty much what it is.

And, you know, sometimes a supervisor, you know, they'll tell them, you'll do this. But most of the time, they're doing shit the way they want to do it. You know what I'm saying? so um but like higher ups with like chiefs and all that they you don't even see those people you don't see chiefs you don't see you know you don't see none of those people ever so all of that really comes with just like i mentioned really really the officers that are there and whatever officers are present honestly no in your opinion say we took 10 officers line them all up out of those 10 how many do you think are actually care and and are for the inmates i don't know if not none

maybe one. Really? You know what I'm saying? If you would have asked me, you don't give a shit. They don't care. You know what I'm saying? Me? I would be there. Most of the time I'm feeling bad for these fucking people. I'm feeling bad for these guys. You know what I'm saying? Because it's fucked up. It's bad enough you're in jail. You know what I'm saying? It's bad enough that you're there. So, you know, the way I saw it was, all right, I'm going to be here to try to, all right, how can I help them as much as possible so that things go smooth for them so that to make their time go a little easier while they're here. You know what I'm saying?

It's not. It's bad enough. They're in jail. So, but not everyone sees it that way. Everyone sees it differently. Some people see it fuck that. He's in jail. He's an inmate.

He's full of shit. I don't give him nothing. Treat him like shit. And that's not right. Is there one inmate story that, like, you'll never forget that you encountered in there? One inmate story. I want to say maybe the, maybe the craziest shit I've seen was maybe,

I was during my training, my training when I first started, this dude kind of, This dude tried to hang himself, try to hang himself in the cell. So I remember a whole fucking load of officers ran in. Took them down. They had a spray, a whole bunch of crazy shit. Remember, I mind you, I'm training. I'm on the side.

I'm just like, oh, shit. And this guy was typically known to kind of do those things, you know, whenever he wasn't getting it. And that goes to say when they're not getting what they're entitled to. You know, he was known to do stuff like that when he wasn't getting his services or what he was entitled to get. shit like that would happen. So, yeah, and things like that happen for those reasons, like I mentioned before. They happen all the time. They happen.

These are things that happen every day. This is normal in Rikers Island. People come in suicide. Young kids, kids 15, or 16, 17 years old. You know, I don't know if you heard of that famous story, like Khalif Browder story. Yeah. The kid was 16. Rikers Island.

That shit fucked him up so bad that when he came home, when he committed suicide when he was already home. but that shit damaged him so bad that he couldn't, you know, and that's a fucked-up story. Do you think inmates are punished for having mental health issues at Rikers Island? Like, because in my experience, a lot of inmates, they don't want to admit that they're struggling mentally because you're just thrown into a room in a fucking turtle suit or you're stripped of your clothes and you're sitting there with nothing. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like that's punishment. Yeah. Yeah. Like I would see dudes that were on suicide watch. Don't give them like this. I don't even know what it's called. they will have nothing on,

they'll just give them this thing to put on. It was like this shit, this weird thing where I've seen in like the dentist. Like, you know, when you're about to get an x-ray in the dentist office and they put this thing on you for the radiation? Some shit, I don't even know what it's called, but... I know some people call it like a turtle suit, but...

It's probably that. It's probably that, but that's what they would give them, you know, and that's all they would have on. And then they got them all the way in the back, you know, what I'm saying, alone. And it's like, damn, like, you know, this guy should have people coming to talk to him throughout the day.

You should have counselors coming to talk to him to keep him calm or, you know, to help him out. But, you know, you're denying the guy his medication. You're denying him counseling or whatever the case may be. And you're just making the situation worse, you know, and it's not right. On the topic of inmate treatment, how actually is the food at Rikers Island? Like, what's a reality of it? The food from what I've seen and don't laugh at me. I actually ate the food from there.

Yeah. I think you're the first guard that said they've eaten the food. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I've eaten the shit from the kitchen, from the staff kitchen, the chicken, all. I've had it. You know, I've had it not on a daily basis, but I've had it. But, yeah, you know, the food could be better than what I've seen, but they could definitely improve on a lot of that, you know, as far as the food and stuff like that, you know. The breakfast sometimes, though, have, I would see sometimes the CEOs making the breakfast himself.

And I'm like, wait a minute, CEOs are doing it. but yeah that definitely is something too that you know could be could be improved are the portion small is the taste yeah it's like fucking one they give them these little trays and they'll put one or some corn and another slot a piece of chicken another slot maybe a juice and here you go you're fucking starving after that yeah like if they're skimpy on hygiene what's to say they're not going to be skimpy on food exactly on food as well and that's what's fucked up about it like they're not giving them what they're as much as they're supposed to you you know, which is causing a lot of, you know, like we mentioned before,

a lot of other shit leads to other things. What was the final straw for you to resign? There had to have been like a moment where you're like, I'm done, I'm not going back. Well, it was already leading. It was boiling up. It was leading up. It was leading up to, you know, every day I was like seeing all this shit going on. And I'm like, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not liking this shit.

It's just not for me. And I'm, you know, I'm going home every day. I'm talking to my fiance. I'm like, yo, I'm thinking about. I don't know, man, but this is a little, you know, I don't know, you know. And at the same time, I'm like, fuck, you know, if I leave, I don't got a job lined up. I don't got nothing lined up after this. So while I'm there, I'm trying to at least line something up so that if I leave, I have, you know, I have employment, I have somewhere to go.

I have other work. So I'm like, damn, I can't just leave. So, like, one day I went and then it's crazy. I just walked in, went to roll call. And after that, I just looked at myself and said, you know what? I'm out, bro. I'm not doing it. I'm sitting.

I'm out. Just like that. I went. I told him, yo, I'm out of here. All right. You out? Let's have this. Let's have that.

Turned on my shit in. Turning what I had to get in, giving the shield. Next thing, you know, I was gone. And that was it. Did that burn a bridge for future city jobs? No, I don't know. Because people retire, people, not retired, people resign all the time, like I mentioned. So I didn't, you know, I wasn't terminated or nothing like that or written up or anything.

I resigned. I simply just left. People leave every day. There's no, there's nothing in corrections that says that you can't leave or when you can leave. Like I said, there was people that were leaving the first day of orientation or even in the academy. People were resigning and leaving. So there's really no say as to when you have to leave or how long you have to work there for, you know. How did that make you feel?

You had this plan. I mean, you did the four years at college. You thought you were going to get a job. You didn't. And then when you stumbled upon correction, you're like, okay, I'm going to do this for 20 years, retire. I have a plan. How'd that make you feel once that plan fell apart? That shit was hard.

I'm not going to lie. You know, I had this whole shit set up like, yeah, you know. Before I took the job, like I said, I'm like, it won't be bad. You know what I'm saying? I'll be fine. You know, I'm not really worried about getting assaulted or none of that because I'm like, nah, I'm not, you know. So when all that shit ended, I was like,

Damn, mind you, I'm starting from scratch. Excuse me. Now I'm at square one all over again. No job. Don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Don't know what's happening. With a college degree. But then I can't find work still with a degree.

So it was really fucking frustrating for a while for like a good, I want to say maybe like a good year or so. I was like, no work, nothing. So all my plans were just, I'm trying to figure out what to do. All right, fuck, what am I going to do? I'm trying to reach out to old college friends that I went to school with that, you know, to see what they're doing. You know, I could probably help me out or guide me to what, you know, certain careers that they're in now. So I had up a friend of mine that I went to school with.

He was a case manager at this agency and up in Westchester. So he told me, yeah, you know, they're hiring, just apply. You know what I'm saying? So I applied. And luckily, you know, they called me, you know, I got the interview and luckily everything worked out. you know, and I got the job. So, and I loved it, you know, it was casework. It was working with families, youths as well, young kids from like 14 to 21 years old

and kind of helping them get the resources they need. A lot of them were immigrants as well that were like either approached at the border or caught at the broader or, you know, arrested. They didn't have any papers or anything like that. So it was a lot of it had to do with getting them back with their families, you know, so that they wouldn't have to go back and get deported back to their home country, you know. So I was doing that for a while. And then after that, I started doing what I'm doing now is pretty much the same thing, you know,

helping families, helping them apply for public assistance, any kind of assistance they need, resources, whether it's, you know, full stamps or applications for SSI and a whole bunch of different things and guiding them through things, you know. So it feels good to do that, you know, because I like to help, like I mentioned before, that's what I want to do. You know what I'm saying? And I was in an environment in Rikers Island where none of that shit goes on. None of them are there to help anybody or to make the situation better for anyone.

So which is why I needed to remove myself from that. When you see the news about Rikers and stuff, does that make you angry? Because it's constantly in the news. And they talk about closing it and the conditions, this and that. How does that make you feel? I see this shit all the time. And all they talk about, oh, they've been saying for years that they were going to shut it down and they were going to create these buildings and all the boroughs. and and and but I feel like they're not going to do anything they're not going to do

nothing about it I don't think that place is going anywhere to be honest because from what I'm hearing from what I've seen on the news you know neighborhoods they don't really want those certain neighborhoods don't really want those they want to put certain buildings certain jails they want to build small jails with the neighborhoods you know and people don't really want that you know they live in these neighborhoods so honestly I don't really think they're going to do anything about that when it comes to that. I feel like Rikers Island, it's just always going to be there, to be honest, you know. Do you feel like you've found your purpose now in life after kind of going through the motions

of different jobs and then what you've experienced? Hell yeah. And I feel like that's something just in life, you know, you have to go through certain things to figure out what it is you really want to do and where you belong, you know. People's plans change every day. Not every, yeah, things change all the time. So, like me, you know, I went to John Jay and wanted to be a lawyer, not end up being a lawyer, ended up being a correction officer, and from correction officer and then being a caseworker.

So things have changed along the way. And then I also got into, while in college, I would do, I always had a passion for acting. Acting was always my, you know, I never really had the time to do it, but I've always had a passion. So while in college, I was doing like background work. You know, we're familiar with background work. It's like, you know, you get paid like $100 for the day. You go sit on a set for like 16, 20 hours. Sometimes they don't even use you.

But, you know, I had a passion for it so much. I didn't really have no one to tell me, you know, this is what you need to do. You know, you need a manager. You need to create footage of yourself, a demo. So that's like a resume. But I didn't know that. So I had to kind of figure that out while doing background. I came across certain people and met certain people that kind of,

Explain that to me. Yo, Marlin, this is what you need to do. This background shit, you know, it's not going to get you nowhere. So from there, I created a demo reel, created footage of myself, head shots, and I put it out there. Then a manager reached out to me, offered me a contract, and I took it right away. You know what I'm saying? And after I got the manager, the agent came along. See, when it comes with, you can't have two agents, several agents, but you can have a man.

manager and an agent. You know what I'm saying? So right now I'm working with a manager and an agent. Booking little gigs here and there. You know, I haven't really got, I haven't really got that breakout role, you know, but I've been on a few things on CBS, this show called, it only had one season. They ended it after the first season. East New York, I don't know if you heard of it on CBS, but I've done that. You're cast in it? Yeah, it was a co-starring role. Oh, that's awesome. It was a co-star role and everything. That's just one season there? It was one episode, one season.

It was like a day player row. This wasn't background. This wasn't nothing. So I was hype. And this is a paid gig? Yeah, it was paid. That's awesome. It was paid because I'm in the union too.

I'm in a part of Sag After. Okay. So it was a great experience. You know, I had my own little trailer. Yeah, it was fine. Did they take care of you? Yeah, yeah. You bring you your food.

You're bringing your breakfast. They bring you all that, you know. So they canceled the show? There was only one season. And I had good actors in it. You know, there was actors in it that, you know, had pretty good actors. So I was actually surprised. but I guess, you know, it's...

What was it about? It was like a little Law & Order-ish type of thing, like a cop show, you know. And what was your... What was your character? Yeah, I played like a defendant on trial. Okay.

Yeah, I play like a defendant on trial and I was in the room the whole time and on trial for, for, like, murder. And you had speaking lines? It was like one line. Okay. But I was hype, you know what I'm saying? I never had a line before.

You know, I'm always doing... I'm doing background. I'm used to be in somewhere for like fucking 20 hours, just what a hundred people and you're like this, you're trying to get in front of this. That shit sucks, man. But again, that goes to say in order for you to get to where you want to be, you got to go through certain stages.

If it wasn't for background, I don't think I would have learned what I knew now and learn the steps that I need to know. It's a process, yeah. Of course. And you keep going and going if you make a little bit more progress, each way, you know, and it works itself out. Yeah, yeah. And it's something, you know, it's something to show on your resume

because when you, you know, when you want to book a role where there's a season, regular role on these big time shows, they're going to look at what you've done. You know, even though, all right, I did this show, you know, it wasn't really much, but it was a hit, it was a hit show on a platform, on a network on CBS, which was, you know, so they look at that. Oh, shit, you were on that. You had a co-star in role, so that's what matters. Doesn't matter how many lines it was.

It doesn't matter what it was. It matters that I landed the row and I got the role. You know, I like that one that 50 Cent produced about the guy for, I think it was New York that got sentenced to life in prison, became a lawyer. Oh, for life. For life. Yeah. That shit is huge.

Yeah, but they stopped there. They canceled. No, I think that shit only went on for like two seasons. That was it. It was two or three. It was either two or three, but it was big. I really enjoyed it. It just kind of went off its path.

Yeah, yeah. Like, it started really good. I feel like once he left prison, it kind of unraveled. Yeah. But it was a great, great series. And that was the thing when I was watching it, when he left jail, was like, damn. I'm like, how they're going to get? keep this going.

Like, it started to, like you said, der real. It wasn't sustainable. Things started to change. But I figured maybe, you know, maybe they'll just create, I figured in my head, all right, he'll be out,

he'll be a lawyer, he'll just take on different cases, and maybe they'll just continue it like that. And I think the ratings kind of dropped. He tried it. I mean, that's what happened with orange is a new black. Orange, yeah.

Ones that left prison or the story lines different. Yeah. Yeah. Those stories suck. I'm still pissed we were talking about earlier. They canceled ghost. Yeah, man.

It doesn't make sense. One of my favorite fucking show man that whole sequel's fire man all of that they announced the prequel though with uh about Tommy and ghost I heard about that I hope they make they bring those guys back

that's he that'll be great they're gonna have to yeah they're gonna have to bring them like have to without a doubt it's literally my favorite television show that's why it was so great to have Gianni on the show and connect with them yeah yeah that's fire yeah that's my shit that's my favorite show

and you know I got to audition for one of the roles for the last season that came. Of ghost? Yeah. Oh, you got an audition? What were you auditioning for? It was a recurring role.

Do you watch the show, right? Yeah, of every episode. You know, remember the family that played, at the end, I don't want to spoil you or nothing, but at the end, when, you know, the family they killed, the brothers, the three brothers?

Yeah, the Spanish, yeah, with the mom and they killed them in the diner with the gas? You were in the family? One of those brothers, I don't know if you remember the name, Guillermo, he didn't really have much lines, he didn't really have much lines,

but I ended up all the time. auditioning for that role. And when I got the, when I got the shit for my manage, I was hype. I said, oh, shit. Because we were talking. I've always told her from the beginning, I got to get on power. I got to fucking send me something. I got to get on this shit.

So when I got it, I was hype. But, you know, it's hard because you got maybe 150 to 200 people auditioning for these recurring roles. So they auditioned that many people for it? Typically, when it comes to, I don't know about that specific role, but generally speaking, from what I've learned, you know, going to all these cast. and director seminars and all these things. Generally speaking, when it comes to recurring or recurring role,

it's like 150 to 200 self-tapes they're looking at. And I don't even know if they're looking at all of them. Who knows if they're looking at all those tapes? And were you actually called to a physical audition or it's all online? It was a self-tape. Like now, typically everything ever since COVID, they do self-taped. Rather than have people come in, casting directors, they're just watching tapes from their house.

And you're just reading lines. Yeah, they'll sing you the script, you know, and then you'll do the tape, whether you get your little, your ringlight, or you go to a coaching studio, have a professional do it, which I used to do in the beginning with the coach. But after a while, I kind of learned the ropes,

and then I started just kind of doing it on my own. So now I kind of have my own little setup where I live now. And what are you speaking to the camera? You're not looking directly at the camera. They don't want you to look into the lens. But, you know, let's say I'm looking at you, I might look slightly and move my eyes slightly to the right.

And you're just reading the lines? And you read the lines. Yeah. In the character that you think, do they give you a description of how it should be read? Yeah. Yeah. So though not really necessarily.

Sometimes they'll put notes. Or they'll say this character is very angry. So be sure to show emotion or show anger and stuff like that. Sometimes they don't. And you got to kind of, you don't really know. So there's really no right or wrong to that. You just kind of do what you think. Do they give you feedback if you don't get it?

That's the thing with self-tapes. And the reason why I really don't like self-tapes as much is because in person, let's say, I'm auditioning right now. And you might tell me, all right, Marlon, let's do it again, you know, but do it a little bit like this with self-tapes. you send it in and you don't hear back. You don't know what? You don't hear back unless you get the role.

So it's like, fuck. Damn, sometimes you don't know. All right, did I do good? Did you like it? Was it what you were looking for? And that's the only thing I don't really like about sub-tapes is shit like that. Like, I don't. Yeah, you don't get the feedback.

You don't get the feedback, you know, as opposed to being face-to-face. Yeah, I like face-to-face. I rather that too. Like, I have casting agents reach out to me directly all the time for like stuff because they see me and they want me on. But they want you to fill out like a sort of. like a survey and a resume and then do a tape. I don't even waste my time with any of that anymore.

Oh, man. It's different. It's different, you know. You feel it, you know, it's different when you're in front of somebody, you know. Absolutely. Because you can tweak things. You can say, all right, do it like this now. Do it like that.

They're never, generally speaking, they're never doing that when you send the tape in. You know, either they like it or they don't, and they move on to the next clip and they just keep scrolling. What advice would you give to someone that's kind of like struggling to figure things out in their life career-wise or maybe they were in the role of an end? inmate and you know going through it what advice would you give to someone i just want to say you know like keep going you know what i'm saying like i said it's never too late people think like oh damn i did this i'm 40 i'm this age and how am i going it's never too late like i feel like you just got to

keep going and find that motivation like we spoke about earlier nine times out of 10 nobody's going to be there to push you or tell you what to do you got to have that you got to figure that out and just find what you love do what you love fuck what people telling you oh there's no money in that there's career in that. There's nothing in that. You know what I'm saying? Half of the time, most of the people, if you're not becoming a doctor or a lawyer or a fucking scientist or a, you're not, you're professional. It's not, you know what I'm saying? And that's bullshit. You know what I'm saying? There's just why a lot, I feel like a lot of time kids, teenagers and stuff like that, you know what I'm saying? They don't, they lose a passion for going to school because they feel like if they go to

school, they got to do, you know, they got to pursue things they don't want to do. And that's not, that's not true. There's other things you can do. You can act. You become an artist, an actor, or a rapper or a singer, or a singer, whatever you want to do. There's, there's There's no, there's no, nothing out there, no law that says you can't, you know, pursue these things. So with me is like, do what you love and that support isn't always going to be there. You just got to, you just got to have it in you and just do it anyway. Definitely. No one's going to push you to do it.

Well, Marlon, thank you for coming on the show today. Thanks for taking the time to sit with me on a Saturday morning. Oh, yeah, man. I'm a parent. Yeah, I'm a parent, so. We got to do this shit early. I got to get back. Absolutely.

Well, you know, I wish you the best. and hopefully this episode inspires some people. Oh, yeah. And send me next time your cast and something, and send me that CBS thing. I'll take a look at that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, man.

Thank you, Ian. Yeah, absolutely.