Locked In with Ian Bick - Prison Guard Reveals How To Survive Prison | Michael Smith

Episode Date: May 5, 2024

Former Correctional Officer and Cop Michael Smith dives into the raw realities of prison life, from earning respect to navigating confrontations, surviving on D Block, and even finding unexpected opportunities amidst adversity. Hear firsthand accounts of tension, encounters, and the complexities of acceptance in prison culture, all while exploring themes of injustice within the criminal justice system. These compelling stories offer profound lessons and insights into the human spirit within unescapable prisons. Big thanks to Cheech & Chong for sponsoring this episode: https://heycruisechews.com/locked-in/ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:06:23 - Gaining Respect 00:13:09 - Surviving on D Block 00:19:32 - Cheech and Chong's Gummies 00:25:33 - Survival 00:32:12 - Confrontation in the Yard 00:38:49 - The Encounter 00:45:34 - Tension Prison Sections 00:52:17 - Accepting Favors in Prison 01:05:30 - Unescapable Prisons 01:12:13 - From Resignation to Dream Job 01:31:11 - Injustice and the Criminal Justice System 01:38:01 - Prison Stories and Lessons Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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even if you've shopped with us before. The first week there, one of the guys, mad respect for this guy, he still on the job. Comes up to me, he goes, listen, if you got to go in a cell with a dude, you got to gain their respect. If you got to go in the cell with a dude, you got to go in the cell with a dude. He goes, he looked like the white cop that locked him up. And I took that to heart like, I'm going to have to do that. So that's what ended up happening. I had to gain my respect in that place.

Welcome back to Lockton with Ian Bick. I have Michael Smith, aka Smitty, a former Pennsylvania correctional officer and police officer. He is an OG to the correctional system in Pennsylvania. He has crazy stories. He really is one of a kind, and they don't make correctional officers like this man in this world today. I am so excited to share Smitty's story with you all today. His energy, his enthusiasm. It's what we look for in a guest.

and you guys are honestly going to love this episode. But before we get into this episode with Smitty, I need to thank our new sponsor Cheech and Chong's Cruise Chooze for supporting Locked In. Go to trycruisechew.com slash locked in for 30% off. I'm holding in my hand what the containers look like. You take a couple of these before sleep, and you have one of the best nights of sleep possible. Go try cruise choose today.

Now sit back, relax. and get ready to lock in with Michael Smith. Smithy, welcome to Locked in, man. Pleasure having you. Thanks for coming from Pennsylvania today, right? Yes, Philly, Philly, PA. Philly. Yeah.

We love Philly. City of your brother you love. Rocky. Yeah, I was in Philly for Rocky Day back in December. I think it was. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I got to meet him and then go to the statue and everything. I think they opened up a store down there, too,

like art museum and stuff like that. My business partner did the mural behind it. He's a muralist, yeah. There's a big, I don't know if you've been over there, but there's a big mural behind the score. Yeah. He drew that. It's really cool.

Yeah, that's why I got to go. Oh, oh. Yeah. I like Philly. I want to go there more. You know, my first time in Philly was when I was in prison. Oh, at the, um, federal detention center down there. Yeah, that big tower.

Yeah. I remember passing the Philly Zoo and everything on the way. Right. My first experience. Yeah. I got to get. fact they're just to kind of like explore and stuff and check it out. And I was actually in Philly again a couple years ago to film some TV show about, you know, like those divorce courts.

Yeah. This was like roommate court. I had gone a reality TV show because I brought one of my old roommates to court and they filmed it in Philly at some old firehouse that they used for TV production or something. Oh, right. Yeah, I don't know. It was interesting. Yeah. You know the show Live PD? Yeah. So this was called Court Night Live, the same producers that did that. Oh, okay. Yeah, so I got to go to Philly to do that.

Have you grown up in Philly, your whole life? Yeah, I was actually born in Vegas. In Vegas? Yeah, my dad was stationed out there in the military. And then we moved back to Philly when I was like, well, only like two or three. I was like either two or three years old. Oh, so you don't really remember Vegas too much? Nah, never even been back there.

Really? Yeah. Wow. You don't like the appeal of it? No, I'm afraid of flying. Really? Yeah. Okay.

I'll chase a guy with a gun any day, but flying, I like to be in control my own destiny. Okay. So you don't think you'll ever go on a flight? Probably not. I will drive there, no problem. Have you ever been on a flight before? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, to Nashville, actually Hawaii for my honeymoon. Okay. Doctor had prescribed me some meds for that. It was like, what was that? show the A-team when they got a drug Mr. T to get on planes. That's me. Wow.

Do you have kids? I have four. What do they think about your no flying? They bust all me about it. But, you know, they understand. So it is what it is. I'll drive everywhere, though. Like I love to go to Italy.

I love to go back to. you know, go to Ireland. It's never going to happen. Is that your background, Irish? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And do you have a mother that was in the picture, too, father and mother growing up?

Yep. Well, actually, funny story, my dad was, my dad was Catholic. My mom was Jewish. And my dad converted to Judaism when they got married. I was raised Jewish, actually. A lot of people don't know that. You know, because they think, you know, Jewish people look a specific way, you know. And you hear a lot of racist comments.

And I just laugh because they say it right in front of me. And this is before. And they don't realize, you know. So, you know, in 2020, I actually converted to be Catholic. So back to Catholic? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

So, you know, 2020 was a. strange time for me, you could say. You know, I resigned from Greater First State Prison, well, Phoenix, during that time because of some stuff that was happening. My co-workers telling the convicts that I was a retired Philly cop and they respect the, I would say, for the most part,

I would say about 85%, 90% of the convicts in there respected me because the way I handled myself. You know, it's always been like that. Even when I started as a CEO in Philly, as CF, CF, my first week there, one of the guys' mad respect for this guy. He's still on the job. He's a boxing trainer, too. He comes up to me, he goes, listen, if you got to go in a cell with a dude, you got to gain their respect. If you got to go in a cell with a dude, you got to go in a cell with a dude.

He looks like the white cop that locked him up. And I took that to heart like, I'm going to have to do that. So that's what I ended up happening. I had a gain my respect in that place. Being a white boy from Northeast Philly, you don't know a lot of things. So when you go in a maximum security county jail, 2,000 inmates. I'll say county jail is inmates. you get up to the state you get up to the feds their convicts that's what they want to be called um

reality hits quick you grow up quick you know um i've been bitten in there i broke both my hands in there um been in the cells i've seen suicide attempts stabbings you grow up quick in there you got to mature quick it's funny because during that time when i was in an academy um that show oz came out on each When it's time for a move, do it right. With United Van Lines, America's number one mover,

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Get a quote, United Van Lines.com. Yeah, I got to watch it. Everyone says I have to watch it. Yeah. So a lot of those stories are real stories that they played in there. I was like, when I was watching it, I was like, damn. Like you got to be a little bit off your rocker to apply for a job to work in a prison.

Because there ain't no happiness in there whatsoever. A lot of things that you were taught in the academy, be fair, firm, you know, treat everybody equally. You always can say no and let it stand like that, but once you say yes, it's hard to turn that into a no. I always took those things literally, and that's how I ran my whole career in law enforcement. I remember dudes I came in I always was fit so I always had my uniform

always pressed, starched, gigline straight, you know? They look at you and they respect that they see like a frumpy CEO shirt all out you know you look like you just ate five hoagies before you came in you got food on your shirt

you're like how do you respect someone looking like that you know so you would get like the inmates would come up to me like were you in the military now I was never in the military and stuff like that but they try you you know I remember one of the first times I went in a cell with a dude um we had rules like there ain't no write-ups like we I go in the cell with you we're going to rumble, you know, you ain't going to medical, I ain't going to medical, it is what it is. That's how you gain a respect from the inmates. Of course, you're going to have some that ain't going to respect you. It's like that.

It's a man-ean world, it's alpha male in that mentality, in that prison, you know? So I ain't saying I'm the most toughest guy in the world, but I'm walking in there as a man, I'm going to be walking out as a man, you know. It's funny, like I've always said I never feared of dying. I was talking to my buddy at work one day, and we were both talking about, and he was like, I ain't feared of dying, but I'm a fear what I'm going to miss. I was like, damn, that's true, you know. So how I always live my life is I appreciate everything I have, my family, my friends,

You know, but the job that I had, I had to put my life on the line, you know, plenty of times. I had a guy pull out a gun when I was a cop, you know, tried to shoot me when I was working in North Philly. You don't think about it at that time, but after that, you're like, damn, my finger wasn't behind that trigger guard of his gun. He could have shot me, you know. but working in CF CF is what made me throughout my life that I still am today. When I was growing up, I was a skinny kid, man. I weighed 110 pounds. When I got in a high school, I graduated 135.

Yeah, I played football. I played baseball at George Washington High School in Philly. I always had heart. I just didn't have the weight. I didn't have the skill, you can say, you know. So I got in a lifting, working out after high school and always wanted to be a cop, to be honest with you. I just wasn't able to get on with the tests and stuff.

So I became the CEO. And I think it was the best thing that happened to me in law enforcement. I believe every officer, police officer, should work in the prisons for a year or two. It humbles you. Because all you have, at CSCF, all we had was our hands. We didn't have no pepper spray.

We didn't have no night sticks. We didn't have nothing. No vests, nothing, you know? A lot of, probably one of the most scariest moments I ever had at CF CF was Thanksgiving night. It was 19, no, it was right after I got married 2000 Thanksgiving night the block went off on in a D building and how they have it at

CFC if there's a building B building C building D building a building was like where the kitchen workers were and it was where A13 and A14 was the um the hole the shoe A13 was like our supermax that's where guys that would get sentenced for uh to death row they'll end up there that there was dudes on a rent from state prison, they will come to A13. It was behind Plexiglass. It was like locked in, you're shackled, everything, everywhere you go.

And that A14 was just a regular hole for fighting, stuff like that, contraband. So, B-building was quarantined. B-2 was to all the wits of the state convicts coming down, appealing their cases. Then you had C-building and D-building. And they considered C-building the projects

and D-building the straight ghetto. D-building was like probably no doubt the roughest. All the stabbings were happening there, all the flights were happening there. It was everybody there for murder, you know, accused of murder, rape, everything. So they put me on D-block.

I'm the only white CEO on D-block, right, on 3-11 shift. And I had to earn my respect quick. So how I started doing that, I started busting on inmates. Cracking jokes. at them. So if they ended up getting a visit, I'd be like, yo, your baby daddy here, right? Smithy, that ain't right. But they bust on me back, stuff like that, you know.

Try to joke around with them all the time, you know. You have eight hours with them. Don't make it miserable for yourself. Don't make it miserable for you. working D building We actually Had this partner and they wanted to put us in D building permanently D1 pod 3 Right And the place was off the hook

And the one guy that was on 703 He's the one who took me under his wing He's the one who said that you got to go in the cell You know You got to earn the respect So That block was off The hook on 3 at 11

11, like when we got it. Like, because there wasn't no steady officer. And me and my partner were like, we got to do something, you know. So they actually, the other CEOs had bets on us. They didn't think we were going to last on that block. So me and my partner were like, we got to treat them like men, you know. So we made up rules. The rules were, if you guys are going to fight, you're going to go in the cell.

and that's it. You get your shit off, and that's all you do. No one goes to medical, and that's it. It's squashed. They respected that, because if you really don't want to fight, you're going to fight right in front of the CO so they could break it up real quick, or call the response team, you know?

So once we started doing that, another thing, I didn't allow no child molesters or rapist on my block. There are lowest things in life. Once I found out, on there, you were getting off somehow. Most of the time, it was PC. They would say they would want PC.

That's how we ran our block. If you were a cell thief, I didn't want you on my block. What's a cell thief? Ones that just come in. So CF, CF, you're out most of the day. There's no movement at CFCF. So you go to eat, you eat on the block. food the trays

gets sent up to you you have your food there the only type of movement is the when you go to not medical for medication which is still on the floor of D1 right so how the buildings are at CFC

I have center controls in the center there's one second floor on the first floor and there's four blocks on each level so the only movement they had would be If they had visits, if they went to church, if they worked, they went to get their GED, or if they went to get medication.

Other than that, they're stuck on that block the whole day. So our jail was overcrowded. So they had multi-purpose rooms where they were closets, where they made in the cells that were six beds. So there wasn't no bathrooms in them. So they couldn't be locked in. So you had actually 18 inmates always not locked in on the block. And they were the most biggest pains in the asses in the world because they would see, excuse me,

they would actually, the other inmates would ask them to pass stuff and all, right? And, you know, you would see them pop out or you see them look if we were locked in for headcount or if they were just locked in. and it was just a it was just a your problem ones you would put in a cell right away when a cell opened up because they were pains in the asses it was like it was like kindergarten and all so when it was time to lock down you see everybody running around trying to get hot water it's 1045 you got to lock down for um for head count for 11 and our shift is done so So our block was, it was nuts. It was just, it was never, they never had a steady officer

where the seven to three officers ran it like tight shit. So, you know, like I said, other CEOs had bets that we want to be on there and we did our thing. And next of you know, we had, we had a block meeting and we told them all the rules, you know. So the cell thieves are the ones that the cell doors aren't locked, you know, once it's open.

so people will just rush in and try to steal stuff off, you know, the weaker inmates and stuff. I don't want that on my block. Like, a thief, you can't trust a thief, you know. I have more respect for a guy that did armed robbery because at least he's facing you and robbing you instead of a burglar that will break into your house while you're sleeping, you know? So I'll get them off the block. Like I said, the rapists and child molesters. crimes against the elderly, they took PC, they had no choice. Sorry to interrupt the show today, guys, but I'm just really excited to talk about our sponsor

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Now let's get back into this episode with Michael Smith. What's the administration saying to you when you're saying, I don't want them on my block? What do they say? The higher ups. They don't know. So where do you put those guys then when they try to send them to your block? Once they say for PC, you call the sergeants, be like,

yo, this guy wants PC. Oh, so that's how you get away with kind of doing that. Yeah. You have them get to do you like pull them the side and say, hey, I know you're here for this and you have to go PC. I don't say that nicely. You're hard on them. I'm like, you're a piece of shit.

I want you off my block. Holy shit. Yeah. Like, but that's how I was ran. You know what ended up happening? Those inmates, 1045. We told them, get your water by 1040. That was it.

Your hot water, if you want to make your cheat-chee and stuff, right? Anything you need, get it by 1040. At 1045, they ended up shutting their doors and locking them. All we had to do was just walk around, make sure that doors were locked. That they weren't, you know, stuffed with anything to keep it unlocked. Our block was ran. Me and my partner, we had that block down. I had a female partner.

And that's what that officer, that, that, that, that, officer that took me under his wing. He said to us, he goes, you got yourself a pretty black female and you're a white dude. You ain't getting no respect. You got to earn it, you know. And I know the one day I got hooked to work overtime for an open ward. Dude dislocated his elbow. So I was ticked because I was supposed to go out that night and now I'm working overtime.

This guy ends up, we didn't get done until 11 o'clock the next morning, but this guy's dislocated elbow, right? So I was smoking at the time. And our bathrooms was also where all the broom handles were, right? So we, the inmates would be like, yo, can I get a broom? Yeah, go ahead when my jacket was in there with my pack of smokes. So when I went to get a catch a smoke break, when I was working overtime, I was like, damn, where are my cigarettes go?

Right? And I'm like ticked off. And I'm jonesing for a damn cigarette. I'm going on for 12 hours now, not having a cigarette, right? So I get, we get done at 11 o'clock a.m. We missed it by an hour of having a day off, right? Because it was like almost like 18 hours straight to work almost. It was like 17 or something, right?

So I had to be in work at 3 p.m. I get on a block. I find out my partner called out sick. I have a damn toothache. One of the inmates comes up to me, right? One of my workers would be like, yo, Smitty, were you missing cigarettes? And I was like, yeah, why?

Because the guy 19-celled, when he went to get your broom? When he went to get the broom, he went through your pockets. And he took that pack of cigarettes. They smoked it all night. I said, okay. Right? I had an overtime officer that volunteered to work that block

because our block was run good. And she was an old Homesburg. guard. And if you ever do the history of Homesburg prison, it's probably the most ruthless prison you ever be in your life. They called it gladiator school. The warden, so CFCF is named after a warden and deputy warden. They were killed at Homsburg prison by the one inmate, Beaumar, stabbed them to death, both of them. So she was an old Homsburg guard and she loved working with me if that slot was open. So I said, listen, I'm going up to 19-cell. I said, you know, just keep an eye, everything's going to be cool.

Go a 19-cell. He's up on the top bunk because he's brand new. He was a brand-new dude. And his cellie was at the bottom. Told his cellie, get the fuck out. Close the door. I said, hop-up, man. And he just looked at me.

So you took my shit. He said, put your hands up. And we just went. Got done. Went downstairs. Had a little bit of blood. Went in the bathroom. Cleaned it up.

My partner was like everything. all right. I said everything's cool. Right? So she goes like this to me, she goes, there's a lot of tension in here right now. She's like, right? She's like, I don't feel so good.

She actually went home sick that day. No, she's not reporting it at all? No. They know better than the... She's an old Homsburg guard. Okay. The history of Homsburg is that's how that prison was ran. Now, if you have...

had someone that was maybe a newer guard on the block, would you have done the same thing? Yeah. Okay. So you wouldn't have cared, even if they reported you? No. You know what? Back then? Right?

Back then. So this was 98. This was like 99. Back then, prison was prison. It was a different era. Yeah. So you had dudes that were locked up from the 60s and 70s still coming to jail, you know? and they ran through Homesburg.

So CFCF opened up, I think it was like 95. So we actually still had some inmates that were in Homesburg, still waiting for trial that were at CFCF. And that was the mentality how it was in Homsburg. Like, you know, guards and inmates were alpha male mentality, you know. No one reported, you don't read. report that. It's like you don't snitch, you know.

Is it illegal? Probably. You know. But you got to, just like the inmates, the CEO's got to survive in there too, you know. Now, if you didn't do that to gain the respect, what would have happened to you as a new guy in the unit? I would have gotten no respect I would have been having a hard time for the rest of my career there

you know I would have tell an inmate what to you know not what to do tell him to do something or you know and he'd be like go go f yourself smitty you know so what are you going to do write them up for three days in a hole

seven days in a hole for disrespect of that nah so now the inmates know be like yo you're going to disrespect smitty smitty smitty's going to go in the cell you know

you got to have that you got to do that nowadays it made snitch they write that pre-act whatever you know when i after i got hurt in the line of duty as a cop um you know your medical benefits run out i was looking for a job my buddy was a lieutenant at graderford and he said yo why don't you apply to be a kitchen officer at graderford and graderfer was a super max prison um old school gladiator school stabbing's fights the whole nine yards right i was like i don't know man it was like i was a cop you know i go in there i might run into people that i locked up um i took away their freedom they're in here because of me you know nah you're gonna be all right you you you know spend a while on all this i was like i don't know i thought about it and i was like

you know, hell with it. I'm going to do it. So he tells me, he goes, listen, prison's not like how it was when you, when you started out at, right? I said to him, I'm going in there as a man. I'm coming out as there as a man.

I'm going to do the same thing that I did when I worked at CF, CF. That's the only way I know. I was taught by old school guards, you know. he was like, all right. Like, he was, like, mad, but I'm not going with that new school stuff. If I tell him, you know, this, and he goes off on me or something, I'm like, yo, you keep it up and I'm going to kick your ass,

or I'm going to stick my foot up your ass, and he puts a pre-thing on me and sexual harassment, oh, well, you know, they fire me, they fire me. Like, I still, you know, I still have pride. So the first week of orientation I'm in there, right? And I'm looking all around. I'm scoping. There's 3,600 convicts in this state prison, right?

So I'm looking all around. And I'm in a kitchen and I was like, damn, there was a dude from CF, CF. This is like, what, 20 some years later serving life in prison. He was one of my workers when I was on D1 Rover. right? And he sees me, he recognizes me. Then I have another dude come up to me. He's like, yo, you look like a cop from North Central.

And like I had to keep a straight face. I was like, nah, you got the wrong guy. Now, you look like a cop from North Central. That dude recognized me, right? So I was like, nah, that ain't me. Right? So I said, look, I called the guy over, right? So come over

Tell him who I am, right? Because I'm not, that's Smitty. He worked at CFCF. He was there when I got sentenced. Oh, all right. So I turned it around. I'd be like, what, all white guys look alike? Right?

And he's like, no, no, I don't mean it like that. I was like, that's what I think you're saying, right? So everything was squashed from that moment, you know? So, you know, working the prison, I'm in the kitchen and I'm on the new side. So my buddy, who's a lieutenant there, you know, you always have some inmates that are cool, some convicts that are cool with you and stuff like that, right?

And he told this one guy who's a shock caller of the Bloods. He's an O.G. He's from Western PA, right? He was probably about 6.3, 6'4 chiseled. Working out, he was on a powerlifting team, like big as hell. right and he's like um you know he worked in the kitchen and he looked out you know he looked out for me he said he looked out like make things easy for me you can say right so we're on the line and he got ticked off about something and he walked off the line while we were serving and i was like yo man i was like where you go he's like man i'm done i'm not working that right now

and it was like right in the middle of meal, right? So it ticked me off, and the other convicts looked at me, you know? So I was like, all right. So he rolled out. And on the new side where we were at, there was open movement where that door was open so they can just go back to their blocks, right? So the next day, I said, yo, come with me. And we go into the closet.

And he's like, we're really going to go? I was like, I can't have you disrespect me. And I ain't going to lie. I'm at this point. I'm 40-something years old. He's 30. I'm scared, you know? Because I don't know how I'm going to deal with this.

I have a plan what I'm going to do. But, you know, it's like what Mike Tyson says. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, you know? So we squared up and he said, we're all going to do it? I was like, yeah, man, I was like, I can't have you disrespect me in front of everybody like that. And then he was like, nah, we ain't going to do nothing. I was like, you got my respect with this. You know, so we walked out of the closet.

Everybody looked, nothing was said. That guy, me and him, were like this. Like, we were, any type of problem I ever had, he had, like, if I went after a dude or something like that, he had that dude come back to me and I apologize. And this is a shot caller from the bloods that was doing this, right? I also looked out for him, though. if so some guy

beat him for a TV right and goes in a cell body beats him whatever and hurts his finger comes down in the kitchen and he's like Smitty hurt my finger

I can't go to medical because I'm in a gang unit they're going to investigate I'm going to be putting a hole I was like all right he goes can't give me something simple do. So I was like, yeah, worked a meat slicer. So he worked at me slicer. Somehow he cut his finger and he went down to medical and got his finger fixed. You know? So I can't believe he did that,

but he didn't get no investigation. So when I was going to day shift, because my shift at that time was 12 noon to 8 p.m. Day shift, that's where I wanted to be, 4.30 a.m. to be there to 12.30. He go, he found I was going to day shift. He goes, listen, I have a boy that's down there. He's a cook in the main kitchen. We had two kitchens in the main kitchen. He goes, he's going to look out for you. He's going to make things easy for you. And to be honest, to people in the kitchen, you know, we supervise, but they're the ones who, to get that, make you look good, you know? So said, he was on death row.

He had four bodies on him. He was on death row since the 80s. He had four bodies on him. He got off death row. Good dude. He's going to look out. My first day on day shift from 430, 1230, it was Sunday morning.

The convicts come down at 5 a.m. And he sees me. He goes, you smitty? I was like, yeah. because, you know, I'm so-and-so. I was like, all right, he goes, told me to look out for you. I was like, all right. So we got to talk in, and, you know, he had four bodies,

and he's like, I'm going to get out from prison. And I looked at him, I was like, you have four bodies. How the heck you get now? He got out two years ago. He went to a funeral, and he killed him right at the cemetery. He killed them? Someone killed him right at the cemetery. Oh, wow.

He was out for one year. Like, someone kept that for 30-some years, like they waited. And, you know, it was crazy. He goes, me and him would talk, and he was like, yeah, he goes, when I was on death row, I'd never touch my kids. None of that. You know, I have grandkids. And when he got off death row, it was the first time he was able to touch his kids and his grandkids and all. You know, he was already in his 60s.

So whoever had that vendetta against him, they waited 30 years, 30-some years to get even. Wow. Killed them right on that 33rd Street, right? Funeral. So what does conviction get overturned or something? That's how he got out. Yep.

Four bodies. He was like a major drug dealer in Germantown and all. Some of the convicts I came across that was famous, one was the singer from the tramps that song Disco or Inferno Oh yeah Yeah well he came to CFC for a 10th of murder of his wife All over the news

Like he He grabbed her head He thought she was cheating on him Grabbed her head And just hit it against the bathroom tiles Where all the bathroom tiles Where all the bathroom tiles broke She ended up getting like 100 staples in her head

Right But it was crazy because she was still come and visit him So he ended up getting 25 years, but he found out I was getting married. And this is back in 2000, and he just, Smith, I heard you get married. And I was like, yeah, and, you know, because I just wish you better luck than I, you and your marriage that I had in mine.

I was like, thanks, Jared. You know, like, it was like crazy things like that. And then the heavyweight, the former, the guy who fought Evander Holyfield, Burke Cooper, right? unfortunately he had a little bit of a drug problem and he had a car jacket he was in cfcf this dude went 10 rounds like he went the distance with evander holyfield for the belt he was at cfcf so he actually um called the woman's woman CO a bitch right at this time i'm d1 rover so d1 rover is you know the one who comes to all the responses and stuff like

like that. So my sards, she gets me. And she's like, Smitty, we're going upstairs. I was like, all right, she doesn't tell me. Go upstairs. We go up to D2. And she calls Burke Cooper. Comes right to the front. And I'm looking at his hands. And he has bare paws. His hands are humongous. If everyone knows about anything about Brooke Cooper, they will say he's probably was one of the strongest boxers. The guy was picking up. He actually, he's, he's from Delaware County, he would pick up transmissions and just work out with him, right, on the street. So he, she said to him, what did you call my, you know, my, um, CEO, my officer.

And he didn't say nothing. She goes, okay. And then next of you know, she did what she did. And he was like, Sarge, I apologize. I'll never say that again. I ain't going to lie. That one time I saw my soul leave my body because if he would have retaliated, I didn't want to know what the heck I would have done.

By the time, the response would have been up there. They probably would have been already, like, putting him on my burial. I mean, he was that big and strong, you know, because he got his weight up. Like it was just, but that's how it was back then, you know. Do you think those shot callers when you went to that latest prison? they never experienced a guard like you before? No, no way. You were a different type of breed.

Yeah, it was just because I ain't going to lies from that guy that took me under his wing. He actually doing, so he worked on day shift, but he would always do doubles. So during my lunch break, we'll do push-ups, right? I never experienced it like that. So we did 800 pushups in 20 minutes. My arms were dead tired. And he said to me, he goes, this is how they work out all day. Like they fill up those water bags and you're just curling, you know.

And those water bags are heavy. They're like about almost 100 pounds, one of those big trash can bags, you know. And goes, this is how they survive. You know, you survive out there working out just as they fit. They survive in here to stay alive. you know you you you get in a fight on the outside it's just a regular fist fight 15 seconds you fight in there you slip whatever you're going to get curved you're going to get kicked in the head you know you got to you got to be fit you got to be strong so then after work

he we would box in the roll call room I'll bring my gloves he has his gloves and we're just spar me and him like I aren't know what, why he took a liking to me the way he did. But I guess he saw something, maybe because, you know, I was on his block from 3 to 11. So 7 to 3 or 311, that block was run, ran good between him and I. The mad respect he, that guy had from all the inmates was incredible. So we had a guy on the block that was in a multipurpose room. He was seven foot three. Right. So when he would come from like court or something like that, we would, you know, you have to be patted down. I would have to tell this dude he has to bend down so I can, you know, pat him down the right way.

You know, no wax in the middle of your back, nothing like that, right? So he was a goofy guy, but he was seven foot three. He probably weighed about 300 some pounds. So he was a multipurpose room. There was this dude from Albania from Kensington. and short guy, he probably weighed 120 pounds. He was a cellie with four other dudes. So this happened on last out.

So next of you know, they see this seven-foot-three guy getting chased by this little guy with a whack, right? Running around the block. Response team's called. They get the guy, they get both of them. They find out the dude was going to try to rape them. and the cellies, the four other dudes, was going to let it happen. Because they were afraid of him.

So this officer got wind of it the next day. And he went in his cell and for those guys paid. The big guy that was going to do the raping, he got put in a hole. The little guy was still on the block. And he even had the whack. And they just took the whack away, you know? that's how it was ran back in the 90s. In the 90s, were there shock callers back then?

Was that a thing? In the state prisons, yeah. Well, yeah, in there. So you had, it's funny, like Philadelphia, Philadelphia, for the most part, there's no bloods, there's no crypts, there's Latin kings. You got some that are Nietta, which is a Puerto Rican prison gang. of course you got your 1%ers, but that's it. Everything else is neighborhoods. So it's North Philly, South Philly, West Philly, you know.

Then you break it down to even more of the neighborhood you grew up in, the streets. You know, 17th and Jeff, 19th in Oxford, 27th and Thompson, you know, or 29th in Thompson, 10th in Thompson, those type of things. So when you come in the jail, you're going to know people from your neighborhood. And that's how it is. Like the bloods and the crypts will never, ever could survive in Philadelphia. What about mobsters? Was it big back then?

Oh, mobsters were big. We had one. He was a rat, actually. He ended up in PC. And then he turned state. He's turned state and federal evidence. and he ended up in a federal detention center and then went in a witness protection program.

I believe, actually, I think he's out. If he's, I believe he's still alive and he's still out. But he was a mess. Like that dude was us, not what you think of a mobster, you know. Most mob guys were probably federal too, right? They wouldn't even pass through the state. Yep.

He also was accused of a murder. This guy. The guy he was accused of murdering, um, ran into his, uh, uh, parents' house and robbed him.

And that dude, actually, they found him hogtied with a dollar between his butt cheeks. Yeah. So, I mean, that's, that tells you,

when you find a dollar between your butt cheeks, when he, when the, when the cops find you, it means, uh, it's for greed. you're greedy, you know?

He was the only one. The other one was a one-percenter president of the pagans. His nickname was Gorilla. He's still out. Like he's still, I believe he's still running things with the pagans. He was banned from them. He had problems with him, and then he just took over again. But his nickname was Gorilla, and that dude was built like a gorilla.

Like, he was big as hell. but you had your Muslims, you had your Nation of Islam. Nation of Islam was back real big back in the 90s. And then you had your Muslims. You had your white boys from Kensington. They usually hung out with the Latinos from Kensington. They were like one group. And funny thing, I was like, this is when I first,

when one of the first I started, I was in C building and a Latino had a problem with this black dude. And the Latino bitch slapped them. Right out in the day room. And I said, yo, take that shit in the cell, right? So they went in a cell. Latino made the stupidest mistake, though. He went in his cell first with his back turned towards the guy.

And the guy just bumrushed him right at the doorway and whooped his ass. everybody was started to look at that cell door and I was like, so we, how CF CF is, is like the front of it is all plexiglass. So center control can see into the blocks. And I had to tell them like, stop looking in the cell door, you know, because you're drawing on the center control officer. They're going to know that there's something going on. So after that happened, it was quashed.

There was no problems, you know, because they settled it like men. the before that it was crazy there was a lot of tension you could feel it in the air because you had all the blacks on one side of the block and then it was the Latinos and the whites on the other side so no doubt if they didn't fight they would have just went to war you know and that's why you let let them be men and let them handle their things what was the most dangerous group of individuals you encountered um in the county it was probably Nation of Islam they very radical group especially during Ramadan and this is back

you know 98 99 there were just in there they were just ignorant there were just you find out later when I got to state prison that the Muslims, the Sunni Muslims, don't have no respect for the nation of Islam.

They consider them a radical group. They don't even associate with them. During Ramadan, they don't even together. So the Muslims would do all their Sahara bags and everything and have their own food, and they don't associate with the nation of Islam. Now, back in the day in the 80s and 90s, Nation of Islam in Greaterford, from what I was told, was humongous. A lot of them were on death row.

They would, like, when you, from inmates that I talked to that were on death row that got off, they said, if you were a black male and you got on there, got on the row, they would, like, brainwash you about the government, about white people. They would just keep on at it, keep on at it, like propaganda, like you're in Vietnam in a prison of war camp. They were just chant that all day long. And in there, in state prison, they were the biggest booty bandits. Every one of them that were in there was almost for rape, and they were raping other inmates. There was a couple that were cool, but for the most part, they were just, now I would probably say there was probably, There's in Phoenix, in SCI Phoenix, there's probably about 30 of them. We're back in a day that it was like half the prison.

Most of those inmates that were NOI ended up becoming Sunni Muslims. How would you handle a booty band if you heard wind of one? Oh, it's funny you say that. So this is right before the pandemic, I believe. And I don't know if you remember, there was a. riot in a prison in Delaware. I think it was in the news, right? Yeah.

And the sergeant that was part of the, in the restricted housing unit, was killed. They brutalized them. They didn't even say what they did, but you already know if they didn't give the specifics, they, you know, did everything. So they transferred a lot of those inmates out of that prison. So Graterford actually, and Phoenix actually got Well, I keep saying that's because Graterford closed down in 2018 and we moved to Phoenix, which was the biggest prison move in Pennsylvania history.

We had state troopers flying over. Like they locked down every prison in the state. They brought all the guards because they had to move, you know, 3,000 inmates into Phoenix. They never done that before, you know. So there was this young buck from Delaware from that prison. and he was up here, right? So I'm on the line at Phoenix, right? And this dude who was a booty bandit, Muslim dude.

I never suspected he was a booty bandit. He's been locked down for about 40 years already, right? He worked in the kitchen also. I never knew he was a booty bandit, right? And he looks at the young buck with a smile on his face. And all the other inmates on the line were like, looking around and I'm I peep everything I see everything and I see it and I'm like you know What the hell is that guy smiling him for? Right? So I said I was like you know that dude? And he's like

Nah when we were in a dining hall he asked me if I wanted his cake and I took his cake And I was like are you crazy? I was like why the hell would you take his cake? He was like well he offered it to me. I was like, you don't accept nothing for free. There's a reason why he gave you that cake, because he's about to take yours, you know? And he's like, what? I was like, you don't know this dude. He gives you a cake. Like, I'm a CEO telling him this, you know? Because I don't like, I don't like dudes getting preyed on, like the weaker inmates. And this dude wasn't a bad dude. Like, you know, he wasn't a piece of shit or nothing like that. You know, he was a young buck. He was only 20 years old. He's like, well, what am I supposed to do? I was like, well, um, if it happens

again, you tell him no, you know, and he keeps on forcing it, you got to do what you got to do, right? And he's like, really? And I was like, yeah, like, this is a CEO telling him how to live life in prison, you know? And he's like, all right. So then the pandemic happened. So everything got locked down. I ended up getting hernia surgery anyway also. So by the time I got out, we were still locked down. I say probably for like two months we were locked down. So we, no inmates, no inmate movement, no conflict movement, no nothing, right? So. It was all the COs, kitchen officers. It was the social workers, everybody making bags, you know, food and all this, right?

And then right when they started opening up to jail, they only gave us like 35 kitchen workers where we needed 100. So the booty band, the guy never came back down, you know. So I don't know whatever happened. But it was just back in a day, there was a lot of booty band. And they were shower sharks. Showshawks. Yeah. So at Greaterford, there were communal showers on the block.

A block has 800 inmates on it. And it was like probably 200 yards long, right? I mean, it's frightening. You walk down there first time. You're like, shit, you know? So they would, and to this day, they would, the shower sharks would just stand there. you know you don't go in there alone because you're going to get your cheeks taken you know yeah like

it was that type of world in greater for back in the day is that where you think the term like don't drop the soap comes from oh no doubt about it no doubt like like I couldn't even imagine being locked up back then like you know what it would be like you know um you usually um know people you know um Here's another one. So I'm in on the new side of Greaterford, and I'm walking. Like me, the kitchen officers, you normally don't do that because you have people that steal trays, you know, or double back and get another tray.

You know what? If the dude would ask me like, yo, can I get something extra or could I get another tray? My workers will give them something extra or give them another tray. Don't try to be slick and try to take it, you know? Don't try to come up. don't lie. I'm not about that. So I would stand out there in the dining hall.

And I'm the only blue shirt that would do that. A couple others did it too. But they've been around for 20-some years. So I'm out there and I see this tall redhead. And I'm like, Gaelin? My nephew. He's like, Uncle Mike. I'm sorry.

right and I'm like fuck I said listen I'm gonna call your mom tonight and I'm gonna talk tell her how to survive in this place in the meantime you don't take nothing from nobody right so talked to his mom that night and I gave her all the rules you know because he was a good looking kid redhead tall 6-2 he had to do two years and I told her, I was like, he has to stick with his own kind, meaning stick with the whites. You don't know any blacks. You don't know any Latinos. You don't know any other races.

He was a white boy from Northeast Philly. You just, you don't know any. You don't have, you need, he never hung out like that. So I said to him, I said to her, he don't accept nothing from anybody. I said, I'm going to have somebody look after him because the reason why, there was a booty bandit named Cyrus, and he was a straight up piece of shit a guy from Lehigh County.

Every time I would see him, I would call him an asshole. I just didn't like him. What he did was absolutely disgusting, his crying, him and his Rappie, and it was on his Rappie's family. So Cyrus and his Rappie, broke into his parents' house, had the dad and mom, at gunpoint, sit in chairs,

and then he rapes the mom in front of the husband and his rapy. And his rapy didn't do nothing. The dude was watching his mom get raped by this piece of shit. Then he shoots the dad in the head, and then he shoots the mother in the head. He gets double life. He's in prison. He's in there.

And he's a booty. band it. So he already took this one kid where the kid ended up getting a tattoo of Cyrus on his arm, right? And another one that looked just like him comes in and Cyrus was going after him. That dude that he was married to was so brokenhearted about it. He tried to hang himself. And they put Cyrus, they were going to move Cyrus to another prison. they had to get room. So on the new side of Graterford, like I said, there's open movement like crazy between the blocks.

And you had your gang unit, you had your crazies in there on one block, and then you had the new commits. So I went to the shot caller of Bloods, and I said, listen, my nephew in here, I need him, I need Cyrus to stay away from this dude. like I don't want him round him nothing he's like smitty I got you don't worry about a thing I said he's going to be going to camp hill soon so and then he'll find his home and um

he was probably in greater fur for like two months so I would peep out the window see how he's doing in the yard and he was doing everything I was I said and then he made it to camp hill and then he got out and all fortunately you know um they went to a halfway house and And he overdosed. Oh, wow. Yeah. Great kid. He just had a drug problem, you know.

Kid had a heart of gold. Sad, very sad. But I did what I did. Now, I could have gotten in trouble for it because I was supposed to report it. A home that feels intentional starts with pieces that stand out. And that's what Serena and Lily does best. Their heirloom quality furniture is designed in-house and crafted by expert makers. to work beautifully with what you already own.

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Because I was supposed to separate. That's what happened to me. A guard reported that I dated his cousin and they locked me in the hole for that because they had to remove me from the compound. And is that when they had you in Conair and stuff like that? That's when they because, yeah, my attorney was calling, my dad was calling like, what the fuck's going on? Right.

Because they put in, there's no protective custody, anything in the feds, it's all the same. Right. They send you to the, they just label you differently, whether it's admin or whatever they stick you under. Right. So you're still in this. I was with guys that were under investigation. I was with guys that got to fight, stabbings, whatever, in the same spot. Right.

They put me in with chomos all the time, like just all this crazy shit. And I was just there all because a guard knew me. Yeah. It was crazy. And they put me on Conair. Yeah. I mean, me, I ran when I was at CS, CF, another nephew, just on my wife's side, a piece of shit. The nephew was a piece of shit

This other one They're actually brothers Oh shit Yeah So Um I didn't like him Everything that he's done

You know Like he He uh Robbed my wife Like when she was younger Sold or like robbed her When she was a teenager And sold everything that she had

Hot Doll or Jewel Everything right So Um And this is her nephew Right They were about the same age, and there he is at CFCF. He's in protected custody.

Why he's in protected custody? Because he was beating people on the block with medication, right? So he was taking their money, but he wasn't delivering the medication back to him, what they wanted. Because if you're not a psych, if you're not mentally ill and you take those drugs, you get high off of that stuff, like the Sinequans and all the other stuff they take. So that's what he was doing. He was running that game. So he ended up in protected custody.

He comes up to me. And he's like, yo, can you bring in some stuff? And I'd lost it. Choked him. Pick them up and choked him right on the wall. I said, don't you ever fucking ask me that shit again? And I threw him. I called up my same lady, right?

I said, I told her, he already had called. called his mom, right? He called his mom on me. Right? Like, really? So I talked to my sister-in-law. I said, he ever asked me that again. He'll go home in a body bag.

Ain't no big deal, you know? One thing, one thing about me, I have respect for myself. I've had inmates ask me to bring in things, and I treated every single one of them the same way. And it was always the white dudes. No, like that shot caller, right? He did me a favor with my nephew.

He asked a goddamn thing from me, you know? That's what I respect. No other race ever asked me to bring in something. It was always the white dudes. And I look at them like they're pieces of shit. Like, don't ask me that, you know. I'm not risking my life. I mean, not risking my money that I'm making.

I'm not risking me being on the front page of the Daily News or they're Philadelphia Inquirer. I'm not doing that. You got yourself in that situation. You own it, you know? So he ended up going to state prison anyway later on. Did you ever see any escapes in the max back then? Because I'm sure security measures were a lot laxed.

Nah, no. Back then? Yeah. You know what it is? Back then there was a work ethic. The work ethic now? Like the escapes at CF, CF now, they got bums working in there most of them. That's why people are able to escape.

Yeah. Everything. The security is strong. Technology is stronger, right? In the city of Philadelphia, it's, I think the cameras weren't working. You know, like the two that were the one dude, the one dude that escaped over the summer, he, what, he killed the guy right at the front gates of CF, CF. It was on the news. He shot the guy right when he got out.

and he also had another body. He killed the guy and he posted on Instagram or something. He was one of the dudes that escaped from Pick. And it was because of lackadaisical CEOs, you know. I don't think they understand what these dudes will do, you know. Back then you had pride in your job. I don't think a lot of them don't have pride in their job in the city. Do you think there's such thing as an unescapable?

prison? Like if there's a way, do you think someone will figure it out? I think the one prison I think no one who ever escaped from is that Super Max in Florence. The Fed one. Yeah. Yeah, because it's below ground. Yeah. That and that Dauphin prison in Russia. Yeah, that's great. The Russia's crazy. Yeah. Like, they're blindfolded. They walk hunched over. They got to stand all day long. Like, that's crazy. Yeah, I was reading that article how they're treated. Yeah. It's on TikTok. They do like those B-roll clips of it. Yeah. Like, I don't know how.

And it's one to one. So it's one guard to everyone in me, you know, where over here it's not like that at all. And the feds, it's like 400 to 1 in some, in the lows. At the camp, it was 130 to 1. Really? At the units, yeah, at the low at Fort Dix, there was like 400 men in a unit, and there would just be one CO.

Yeah. Like a grader for 800 on a block, I think there was like six. One supervisor and then five officers. And you don't think that's enough? Oh, that's definitely not enough. Like, just for as in officer safety, you know, excuse me, they, those convicts, they can take over any jail they want if they wanted to. I mean, it happened at Camp Hill, you know, back in, what was it, 87 when they had the riots. And it's a crazy thing about that.

There was one CEO is always on the... They always played in the video. A inmate actually showed him away to escape from the riot, and he was on top of the roof, and nothing would happen to him in all. I would say when I worked at Graterford, if there was ever a riot, there was three. Three convicts.

If they said Smitty, go this way, I would go that way. One of them was a shot caller. One of them just got out for murder now. I'm actually friends with him on Facebook right now. Like the dude, this dude, he, you know, he did what he did. He did, you know, he had a murder, but he did his time. Very, he was a convict, but, you know, me and him talked a lot, you know. And another guy, I'm not going to mention his name.

He's still in Phoenix, but those three guys that they said Smitty, go this way, everything's going to be all right. I would trust them and go that way. The only three dudes, though, like in my whole career that I would trust in a situation like that. Do you feel like that was not doing your job, though, by going a different way? When a riot goes out like that and everything's taken over, you know, and there's a only two COs, like, you ain't fighting three, four hundred dudes, you know? You know, you, what are you going to do? Be held hostage and then just like me being an ex-cop, you know?

So when I was on the news side, when I was on the second shift, 12 to 8, there was rumors of me going around that I was a cop, right? So how I wanted to handle it was confront them. But that one dude that I said that I trusted, he actually said to me, he goes, Smitty. He goes, this dude's been down for 30-some years. It's been down since the 80s. You know, he's real radical back then.

Let it die down. You let it die down, everybody's going to forget about it. It's just a rumor, right? You know, but he knew I was. one, right? He knew that I was a cop. And I was like, all right, I took his advice and I actually worked. Like, it died down, never was brought up again, you know, because I gained the trust of those dudes. And that rumor went around. And it, you know, it doesn't look good, you know. So, the reason why I resigned from Phoenix in 2020, during a George Floyd,

George Floyd riots, my co-workers ended up telling all the convicts that I was a cop, a Philly cop. I had a child molester come up to me, one of the workers, and we're in the back of the kitchen by the dock. There's no cameras around there in that one area. It's me. I heard you were a Philly cop, right? And this dude molested a thing was like an eight-year-old girl, right?

and I looked at him and I put my hand on his shoulder and I squeezed it and I said you tell anybody be your last breath like I'm not playing I said who told you this and he wouldn't tell me my co-worker

who told me he wouldn't tell me the blue shirt I was like who the fuck told me because I was going to meet that guy in a parking lot in a locker room and I was going to tear his ass up you know because now you're putting my life on the line um

he never told him told me and then I thought real hard. I took a little bit of leave from work. I said, is it worth it? I'm 40-something years old. I'm not that 20-something-year-old guy. If I get in a fight, get jumped, whatever, are they going to take their time getting to me

because they don't like cops now because of the George Floyd riots, you know? It was a whole bunch. And it was then I was seeing all these posts on things. Facebook and a dude that I broke bread with in the academy and a dude that I broke bread with in Greaterford, you know, we were real cool together and he was in the military. And he's writing all this shit about 9-11, after the cops and after this. I was like, what?

So I resigned. And they asked me why I resigned. I just said It's sad when I trust the convicts More than I trust my co-workers What you mean And I told them about, you know Some things

Well, who wrote it? I said, I ain't telling I don't say names I ain't say no names I was like, but you should watch Who you hire And I resigned You know

Luckily I resign Because I got the best job in the world What I do now You know My dream job like ultimate dream job so everything works out for a reason life happens you know what is your dream job now excuse me i'm sorry um train fighters boxers strength and conditioning and all that so manage the gym i work with great people bosses are great i couldn't ask for a better um job i enjoy

So when I got this job, people were saying, you know, if you enjoy your job, it's not like you ever going to work ever again. I haven't worked ever again. That's awesome. You know, it's just something I love. And how I incorporate, how I train fighters is like a convict, honestly God. And the results are crazy because I explain to them how convicts work out, you know. and they don't get it. You know, it's a lot of reps, repetitions, repetitions, and sets.

I was like, you don't understand. So I'm, what, I'm 50 now, right? Last year I did 1,200 push-ups in 45 minutes. Just, you know, you don't hear that. You know, I found out the record, though, for one hour's 3,000. I'm never going to hit that. But that's how I work everybody out, like a convict. Do you think you can get ripped just off a straight body weight?

Oh, yeah, with calisthenics and all that? Do you need weights? No, no, no. If you eat right, plus, I mean, what you get in prison, you get the right amount of food if you get commissary. You can get rid. I mean, there's some big dudes in... Eat the fish pouches, the tunas.

Oh, yeah, there's tuna. Yeah, there's tuna powder or albacore. I would mix some tuna with some mayo and mackerel. Mix it together in a bowl, some saltines. Yeah, you eat that all day long. Peanut butter, oatmeal. Peanut butter, yeah. Oatmeal.

That's the trick in prison. They all say oatmeal will blow up your arms. Yeah. That's what they say. Or even like the, I love prison grits. Really? The ones they made at the? Yeah.

You probably, they would always be the guards, the jack guards that would eat the oatmeal and the grits at the prison every day. Yeah. The grits, man. Oh, my God. They were delicious. Do you have that with the fried eggs? Like, we would have eggs on Sunday.

Oh, you guys had fried eggs on Sunday. Oh, you guys had fried. Fried eggs? Yeah. Oh, we didn't get that. No. We had scrambled out of the bag. Shit.

Oh, no, we didn't have no scramble. It was always fried eggs. Then Sundays was also chicken. So it was funny because the convicts on death row, they couldn't get the chicken bones. So we had to strip the meat off the chicken bones. Why, because they would make it a shake? Yeah. Holy shit.

Yeah. What was it like working with death row inmates? The former death row inmates. Ready for this one of them was one of my jobs when I was a cop He didn't know it though I was on the crime scene of it 12th and Gerard right aid managers shotgun blast He was the guy he never knew it I knew it He got off that throw though and we used to talk just got a do with her out there, you know It was a very heinous crime like we

what happened. But he was a hell of athlete also. Another one. One of the guys on death row is because of me. That's why I was so particular about that and not finding out. He's still in there. Actually, they made a documentary about him. It was on the Oprah Channel or something like that.

The hit that wasn't. He was the hitman, the guy who ordered The Hitch was the one who had the triple homicide. And he's the reason why he's serving life. And he was one of my workers at CFCF. I knew a street name. That's how he got caught. That was a scary moment, you could say,

because the witnesses were getting killed. They were coming off from the airport in the hotel, finding out, and he was getting killed. The other witness left the poppy store at 3,000. 15th in Stiles, and he got an ambush by the guy that's serving time now for the own death row. That was like, that's why I was real, real quiet to who I was. Why do you leave corrections to become a cop? Honestly, to be a cop, I wanted to help out the neighborhood.

my thing was be a role model. That was my thing. I wanted to be a role model for kids. So, cops get a bad rap, and it really ticks me off. Like, they don't understand the things. So before all the social media, the cameras and the videos,

all the stuff that you see on TV, I mean, like the news, like cops doing nice things and stuff like that, it's been going on for years and years and years. You know, In the 23rd, we collect money for a family that can't afford Christmas presents for their kids, you know. Plenty of times that we would go stop patrolling and play with kids shooting a basketball, having a football catch, you know. I wanted to be a role model for the kids.

Like, a lot of those kids don't have a role model. And people are like, why did you love working North Philly? Like, it's the ghetto. That's what they would say. It's the ghetto, right? So you do it for the people that work there To live there The ones that don't have a say

The ones that can't get out of their house Because they're shooting all the time You know You do it for them One time I had a footbeat Me and my partner We had shooting corner beats So usually do that

With there's a lot of shootings on that corner Drug neighborhoods go in the war The drug dealers and everything So I'm out there on footbeat And the kids were playing And that's the only time you ever see kids kids play out on the street if you see a cop there because they feel safe so i play kickball with them

ice cream guy comes around i bought them all ice cream and stuff like that we're eating ice cream i got some of my uniform like and now i'm skitsin because you know how i said like i'm all starched up gig line pressed and i got ice cream i look like a slob now you know so it's later at night and the guy goes guy walks past me doesn't even stop and he says it's going to be a guy on a bike that's going to shoot up the house on 1700 Newkirk Street. I was like, okay, right? The guy on the bike was actually a guy that was wanted for murder. He was trying to kill the witness now.

So I called my partner, and I call my sergeant, and I tell him, right? And I suppose it happened like around, it was like 8.30 at night. Well, here comes to do it on a bike, coming by 27th Montgomery, coming around. my partner sees him and he's tell you know goes up radio and tells me and he's coming down new kirk street and i'm running up right towards him towards him and he's on a bike and he sees me and then he takes off and then i couldn't catch him on a damn bike you know so we let third shift know what you know what just happened and was the guy he was the kid was only 17 wanted for murder and um he ended up shooting up the house later on like over

It was like three, four o'clock in the morning. He shot up the witness house to the murder that he did. But he ended up getting caught and stuff like that. Here's another one. We go to the high-rise projects at 10th and Thompson, right? So it was a domestic call, and it was a woman who got beat up by her son, slapped by her son. Son's not there. We tell her she's got to come down the detectives, and she's like, no, I don't want to press charges.

I was like, all right, like, then, you know, you have to sign. to 48 that we advised you to go and all that. So we're leaving. It's 9.30 at night in the projects, and there was two kids playing football, right? And I got in the catch. I'm having a catch with them, right? And radio goes over the air. It's like 23 times six.

I'm like, we answered 23. Can you contact headquarters? So we contact headquarters and they tell us to come in. My son's like, Smitty. Were you having a football catch with a couple kids? I was like, yeah, why? Because someone made a complaint on you about a white cop having a football catch with black kids. I said, Sarge, guess what?

I said, you want to get that complaint every night because I'm going to have a catch with those kids every night. Like, you know, it was 10 minutes of that kid's lives that they felt safe. They're having fun. You know, cops are not bad guys, you know. I think that's what's missing now, like community policing and being a part of it. I was just talking about Las Vegas, former police sergeant, and he said he'd always make his guys, you know, go out there, work in the streets on foot patrol.

That was a big, you know, change. So there's, like, that dynamic. Yeah. And I don't think we have that as much anymore. No, I know when I was on, like my squad, we did that. We played basketball with those kids, you know, we had the football catches. We bought that ice cream. Halloween time, we had one officer that would.

give a Halloween candy from his patrol car just driving around, you know, Christmas time, candy canes. Sometimes we would actually use the speakers of our squad cars to blast Christmas music, just going around. Now you've got all these Karens that will complain, file a complaint, say their kids getting fed poison or anything, any bullshit people come up with. Yeah. Like if I would never have gotten hurt as a cop, I probably would have been fired as a cop in 2020 during those riots. Do you ever think about what your life would have been like if you never became a cop to begin with and just stuck with corrections? I would have been awarding. That was my, would have been my goal to be awarding. You know, I've talked to a lot of inmates and a lot of officers.

You know, I've done almost like 150 interviews. And I got to say, they don't make them like you anymore. And my experience in prison would have been different had there been someone like you in there. it's funny like so like how I said when I bust on inmates and stuff there was this Jamaican dude right I called him Bushman because he was actually the he came from the bush of Jamaica right and I used to mess with the Jamaicans like crazy because I would bring up Steven Segole right and they got I couldn't believe how pissed off they would get I'm like yo I was like you keep it up I'll get Steven Segoe and you're oh smitiman he's Stephen Segoe oh, they weren't real Jamaican.

So I was like, yo, he whooped his shit out of Jamaican posse. Right? And he would get so pissed off about that, right? So there's one guy, the Bushman. That's why I called him. I said, yo, it's like, damn, man, you look familiar. He's like, and his Jamaican accent, he's like, do smart. I was like, he looked like my ex-girlfriend.

Oh, F you, maybe you son of a bitch. Like, but it was like, we're laughing, you know? That's how I would always, like, I'd mess with him all the time. And they bust all me back. I don't care if you were a former death row in me, your life or whatever. That's how you, but you make that eight hours the easiest is can be. I never had problems with convicts like other officers did, you know. Yeah, I let things slide.

Like if they were sneaking shit out from the kitchen and stuff, you know what? They just made sure I didn't get short no trace. You can, you know, I feel it. I'm like, just roll out, man. I was like, just don't be, I would tell him, just don't be greedy. Don't be like an asshole, you know. The one thing that irked the hell out of me would be scared COs. Scared CEOs and I would call them inmate lovers.

Ones that brought in stuff to the inmates, cell phones, cigarettes, all that, drugs. I had no respect for you, none. Like, you crossed the line when you. you do that because now I know you really don't have my back you know if I get in a fight with a dude that you're fucking and are you going to stand there you're going to help me you know I just don't have any respect for that type of stuff and the inmates said I was cool with they knew where I drew the line at like they get out of line they know who side I'm on they respected that you know just like if respect I respect them the line that they

to live. It was just that mutual respect that we had for each other. But like the inmate love, and CF, CF, there was a lot of females fucking those inmates. Were there? Oh, it was disgusting. What would you do if you found out one of your coworkers was doing that? I never, I always suspected, and my suspicions were always right, you know. I never caught them in the act, you know.

I wouldn't, to be honest with you, I can't rat and I can't snitch. I just, I'm just, I'm just not built that way. But if it was a male dude, I caught you, you know, bringing in shit. I'm eating you down in locker room. Squaring up. It was squaring up. And you better quit. Like, you're going to retire, you're going to quit.

I ain't telling. Like, I'm not like that, you know. But the females, it was absolutely disgusting. There was one on my block. And me and this girl and a bunch of us would always go out. Go to the clubs everywhere, right? And it freaking, it like broke my heart that I found out that she was fucking an emmate, you know? And the inmate, he was a young buck.

He was 19 years old, but he was facing 1,100 years in prison. He was doing all these bar robberies, him and his rapy, right? And dude was real nice. He was real cool. And this was a CF, CF. And she would always volunteer to work overtime on our block on D1Path 3. And we're like, all right, maybe because our block is rent tight, you know, the guys know in the multipurpose room, you're not going to play around.

If you got to go to the bathroom, you go to the empty cell to go to the bathroom because you're not locked in. You know, you're not getting hot water. you know, they know that rule. So found out he gets sentenced for 25 to 50. He pled. His rap, he got 900 years, actually, because he also had a sexual assault.

So she goes and visits him at Greaterford. And that's how they got caught. Wow. And she got fired. And she was a veteran, too. She was in the Air Force. And when I found out, I was like, holy crap. It's always the ones you least expect.

Yeah. I broke my hand on some dude's head because the CEO that me and him were like cool. And it's funny because we would go out on smoke breaks during lunch or whatever and we'll talk shit. And he had 15 years on the job. And this is what? This was five days. No, yeah, it was my last day at the jail before I got married, at days off, right?

So it's 2000. So response to C-building. And you know whose block it is, it's Lopez. And he's one officer for 64 inmates, so he's by himself. We get there and his eyes cut open. I thought he was stabbed in the eye. That's how deep this cut was, right? So the dude was still in the cell.

We got him. We start fighting and everything, right? And I break my knuckle. Boom. Break my hand on his head. And he gets cuffed. I found out when I came back from my honeymoon, Lopez fired. Right?

I'm like, the hell do you get fired for? He beat the inmate's family on these streets. So the family gave him $400 to bring in cigarettes. and he never brought in the cigarettes. That's why the dude punched him in the head. So I couldn't shake my guest's hand because I couldn't go out medical because I would have to go see doctors, appointments, and all that.

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Class dismissed! Savings of up to $1 per gallon redeemable with $20 rewards dollars in your loyalty account. At participating locations, terms and conditions apply. So I wouldn't be able to go my honeymoon. I could still get married, but I'd go to my honeymoon. I was going Hawaii. I wasn't giving that shit up, you know? So my hands were all swollen.

And how they caught him was they patted all of us down, right? And he had all the cigarettes tied to his thighs. Oh, wow. And that's how he got caught. Wow. Yeah. What do you think is the biggest change that needs to be made in the criminal justice system? You've seen both sides of it.

seen it from the cop side and you've seen it from the correctional officer side? Change would be the court system. I think, especially in Philly, that guy, Krasner, everyone knows about him. But they don't know the antics, the antics that he does, you know. He'll put on, he'll, for cases, he'll put an inexperienced, lawyer on a case they never tried before and they'll lose the case. So yeah, he does charge people, but he blows to, he blows to court cases so they don't get, you know, they get found not guilty, you know, perfect example. My daughter's friend was shot in the head at a pool,

pool hall bar they're at a bar they're playing pool she was innocent bystand she didn't even want to go out that night her she was a designated driver they were only there for 20 some minutes at this at this bar and there was an argument over this pool game the guy goes out to his car and starts shooting in the bar she gets hit in the head dead that guy would have been still in jail and how is because he raped his stepdaughter And she had the text messages from her asking him, why did you do this? Don't tell anybody, yada, yada, yada, all that, right? All these text messages.

Well, what did Krasner do? He gave him a prosecutor that's never had that type of case before in his life. He was brand new. And he lost a case. That's how he got out in the streets. And then he ended up killing somebody. That's the biggest problem, you know? That happens in New York City all the time.

Right, right. You know, like, it's that I understand rehabilitation, you know. To be honest with you, I'm for it. At Graterford, what I want to say, at Graterford and Phoenix, you can get a college degree from Volanova University. You can get, you can get college degrees. You can get a Barber's license. You can get an HVAC license. you can go into become a carpenter, electrician, chefs, half the suey chefs in Center City

or former inmates in those famous restaurants in Center City in Philly, right? And probably the hardest workers. Right. Oh, yeah. And from the culinary program, right? And they get certificates. So your degree doesn't say Department of Corrections. It says Bachelor or whatever, Villanova University.

You even get a graduation. You get the little tassel turn to the side. The president of Villanova comes. I've seen it. That's awesome. Right. The family comes and you get degrees. You know who goes for all the degrees?

The lifers. They have Volanova degrees, right? The ones that are sentenced 10 years, 8 years, they don't even go for it. They sit on a block all day, you know? They get jobs just to get jobs. Make what, 19 cents an hour. You know, they can go in the kitchen, you can go up to, I think you can max out a 53 cents an hour. But no one takes advantage of getting, doing anything, you know.

So all those people you hear, I only can speak for Pennsylvania. All those people here be like, yo, prison doesn't offer nothing, you can get a damn college degree if you want to. You can get certificates from Temple University for free. a $200,000 education you can get for free and they don't take advantage of it, you know? And I've met plenty of dudes that got Villanova, they went to Villanova.

But like I said, all of them are lifers, you know. We actually had the distinction of the oldest juvenile lifer in United States history. That was at Greaterford. And he's out now. And it was a crazy story about that. He got locked up when he was 14 years old.

It was 1950s, I think it was. So he actually did 69 years in prison. Got locked up when he was 14 for murder. He was in Eastern State Penitentiary. That's not even a museum now at 19, on Found Mountain F. And when they passed a juvenile life for law, he was one of the first ones. And he declined to leave because he had nobody out there. All he knew was jail life.

You know what broke him? Was when he got transferred to Phoenix, when greater for closing or ain't no movement in Phoenix. And he was like, I'm out. Joe Legion is his name. And I used to look out for him. Like that guy was 80-something years old, and he was still fit, still worked out.

And he still worked. Like he would do the back of B block. He would mop where the old kitchen, the mess hall was. And I always would look out for him. So when we would have to go all the way up the E block right down this corridor, pass all the other blocks, on E block you still eat on the block in the back, he would clean the hall corridor. So it was like about 200 yards long.

So I always said to my workers on E block, I said, listen, Any extra food, Joe, once they give it to him. He spent 69 years in prison, you know, 60-some years at that time. He's earned it, you know. Always look out for him. Funny, another funny thing was my shamrock right here, right? So it's an Irish saying, Chuck E.R. La, our day will come between Northern Ireland, you know, Ireland being united. So in Pennsylvania, like the state prisons,

there ain't that many A-Bs in Brotherhood. They're mostly a federal gang, you could say, right? So we had two of them in our, in greater fur. The one guy, he was, I believe he came from the feds and he still owed state time, right? So he saw this, and he, thought I was at A.B. And I said, come on, man. You know,

ABs have 666 and it's color green, right? And then he takes off his shirt and he has his big German tank on his back and AB tattoos and stuff like that. I was like, all right, this dude, a real deal. Like, you know, he ain't, he ain't frauding on nobody, you know. He never had any problems. Then when I got the Phoenix, dude, comes up to me, goes, looks. in my own goes, you A-B?

I was like, what the fuck you're talking about? Like, why? Right? And he shows me his tattoos. I was like, then you know I ain't one, right? And he had a southern accent. I was like, where are you from? He said, Maryland. So, what the hell? How the hell you get to Pennsylvania? Right?

Me and my girl and my brother, we went to Pennsylvania and rob a bank. My brother's doing time in the feds. I took the rap for my girl, because she was a driver. and our loot was like below the amount. So I had to do state time. He's doing federal time. I was like, oh, all right, you know.

So then he's like, yeah, my girl broke up with me, though, right? I was like, oh, she married a black guy. And I started cracking up, and he's looking at me. I was like, ain't karma a bitch? All right. And he's just looking. He never said another word to me. Then I had skinheads, skinheads.

I had inmates come up to me and they were like Smitty, you know, there's all these white dudes looking at and they were in the kitchen. I was like, yeah, why? It goes, you know, you know who they are? I was like, no.

They're looking at your shamrock. And I'm like, all right, and they're like, their skinheads are from like Redding PA, central PA. I was like, well, you tell them to learn Irish history and then, you know,

get back to me. And I never, they stayed away from me those, those skinheads. Like, they were just... Have you ever thought about starting your own YouTube channel? Funny thing is, people have asked me to write a book. Yeah, I can see this as like each chapter being a different story about prison. You just, you tell it so well and like you have it all, you know.

Yeah, you know, people have asked me to write a book or do a podcast stuff like that, like, but I don't know. Is this your first one ever sitting down to talk about? Yeah. I feel honored. I was the first choice. That's awesome. No, it was like, I tell people at work, like stories and stuff, and they all, like, they're like, everybody loves prison stories. Yeah.

But I just tell, like, I actually, I'm lucky. I'm lucky that I started when I did. I'm lucky the people that I came across. Funny thing is, to this day, I come home from work, right? And my wife, my kids, they ask me. How was work? It was all right. It's all I say.

I don't say nothing else. They hear stories about me. They hear from my friends, my ex-co workers. If we go somewhere, run in, be like, oh, your dad was crazy, all this other stuff, right? But I wasn't crazy like I treated everybody with respect, you know? As a cop, everything. One of the things, the days in the academy, right? Remember, he was saying to us, because you guys could, any one of you could be.

in there any day. And that state of my head, you know? Anyone, yeah. Right. By mistake identity or anything. Like, yeah, I've gotten a lot of fights in my life. I've had my ass beat plenty of times, right?

But I never thought that I could hit somebody. They hit their head and they're dead. Now I got manslaughter charged. Matter of fact, it just happened to a six-year-old kid in New Jersey. Got a fight with a father and the kid was on a wrestling. team. They're celebrating at a restaurant. I don't know what was happening. A kid's 16 years old. And he gets in a fist fight with this adult. Guy dies. Now the kid got manslaughter. Anything could happen. It's scary. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I don't go out anymore. Like late at night.

I got no business. At 12, 1 o'clock at night. My buddy always told me, right? My buddy always told me, he goes, there's nothing good that happens past midnight. No. And even driving on the road, you You could be sober and driving fine to see other people you've got to worry about. Yeah. Yeah. It's fucking scary world. Yeah. And I, and that's how I am.

Like, so I'll say this. I always treat everybody in jail to accept the ones that I know did it, that admit to it. They could be not there because of the crime. You know, it could be me, you know. Like that guy, you know, you look like that guy. cop of North, and from North Philly, you know, like. Just never know. And there's always people that will be like, yo, are you, are you so and so?

And I'm like, nah, right? They're like, damn, you look like this guy. Well, there was a lineup, you know, and they're looking for, you know, this guy, and then they see me, I might be picked. Well, now they're going to know after watching this. Yeah. Well, Smitty, thank you so much, man. You will, thank you.

But great conversation. I really love that. I think the viewers and the listeners are really going to appreciate this. I had a great time. I actually have more. Anytime you want me to come back. Yeah, well, I'll have to do a part too. You could go on for hours, you know?

Like, you have so much. 20 years. Yeah, crazy, man. But I appreciate the support. Thank you for reaching out. And thank you for being a fan of the show too. Oh, absolutely. And I'll let everybody know.

I appreciate you. People already know at work. Now everyone already tuning in watching your past episode. Awesome. Did you have a favorite episode out of all of them? You know what? The dude from Florida said the one I commented about, like the guy said he came in his cell and there was a black dude here and a white dude here

and he wanted the bunk. I said you did that in Pennsylvania. You end up as a pincushion. 1090, Jake. you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, that dude. Like, that's a punk move. Like, you don't do that, you know?

And the other white dudes that were in that prison should have jumped his ass, to be honest with you, by prison rules. That's funny. But now, you actually have a lot of good episodes. Yeah, and it's well done. And it's always a, shares a positive message at the end of it. It's always a message, a hope and inspiration. Yeah.

But thank you again, Svendi, and safe travels back to Philly. Oh, absolutely. Thank you.