Locked In with Ian Bick - PRISON Inmate Disowned By Family | Joshua Pritchett

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

Josh Pritchett spent his adolescent years fighting for a sense of belonging — and catching criminal charges along the way. After multiple stints in prison, Josh has a chance encounter that changes his outlook on life. He left prison for the last time and applied to UVA, pursuing a finance degree. While there, Josh took advantage of a program that sent him back to prison — but this time as a volunteer, not an inmate. Connect with Joshua Pritchett: https://www.tiktok.com/@felon_friendly_jobs https://veocareers.com/ https://www.instagram.com/jjosh.jpeg/ Connect with Ian Bick:  https://www.ianbick.com/ 00:00 Intro 03:47 Childhood 13:08 Fighting  15:30 Lack of Proper Parenting  18:14 Fighting Escalates  21:50First Arrest at 14 Years Old 26:26 Moved to Germany  28:08 Sent to live with Birth Father and Crime escalates  32:20 Drug Usage and Selling  36:24 Drug Court 41:14 Sentenced to Prison 51:47 Prison Rules 54:46 Prison Experience  1:11:22 Life After Prison and Working in Finance  1:20:16 Relationship with parents  1:21:17 Recruiter for Second Chance Employers  1:24:30 Message to Younger Self  Subscribe to our membership program on YouTube to get early access to interviews, see behind the scenes photos, live chat with Ian & more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvVklIft6DMelVW18M0oBw/join Powered by Q29 Productions, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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PH 71529, pH 71559. Welcome back to Lockton. I'm your host Ian Bick. On today's episode, we have Josh Pritchett here today from Virginia. Another Virginia story. Josh's story's super interesting. He got into a lot of trouble at a young age, fighting, and then eventually leading to drug dealing, which lands him into multiple arrests. It's like 15 or 20 arrests as a teenager and then a lengthy prison sentence, eventually getting out by the time he's 20 years old. And in this story that we dive into today, we go into how he was able to turn it around drastically and create a new life for himself. Thank you guys for tuning into the show. Thank you guys for all the love and the support week after week, day after day. I go through all my comments on social media and the messages and I just see the love pouring in and it really means a lot. If you guys are ever looking to get in touch with me, hit me up on Instagram, Ian underscore Bick. I try to go through as many messages as possible and

respond to as many as I can. Also, if you're interested in becoming a guest on this show, you could go to Ian Bick.com. We're actually in the middle of redoing the website, but there's still going to be an option at Ian Bick.com to go to be a guest on Lockton with Ian Bick. Fill out that form, and we will get back to you as soon as we can. There is quite a few of a list piling up, but we're going to work through it. This is a podcast that's going to be going on for years and years and we will get to everyone that wants to be on this show. All right, guys, that's all I got for you. Again, if you're listening to this podcast on Apple or Spotify, please leave us a review and sit back, relax, and enjoy my interview with Joshua Pritchett. Josh, welcome the show, man. Came from

Virginia's today, right? Yes, sir. How was the flight? A flight was short, the way it should be. Yeah, those, the Breeze Airlines, man, you know, they just like, came out of nowhere and they round trip it was like 80 bucks yeah it's good name it was it was a short breeze flight nothing crazy it was direct so and we got my brother on the payroll now he went picked you up drive to here i was asking him all the the secrets about you in that you know you don't share on on social media so i got some stuff in the in the notepad what was the worst thing he gave you um i don't know he just said he secretly hated you ever since you know he was born he didn't say that wow that was screwed up no

No, your brother, he was super chill. He also said he tries to stay out of social media. Yeah, a lot of people don't even know I have a brother. He wasn't in like the HBO doc or anything like that. Yeah, he told me about that. He was like, yeah, I didn't want to be interviewed. They asked me and I was like, no. See, he wants the perks of it, though.

Like, if I get like really rich or famous or anything, he's going to be the first one. It's his, I need the car. I need the house or something. I will say, as he explained all that, I admitted to him that I was like, so far you sound like the smarter of the two. taking advantage of this. Yeah, no, he definitely wants the perks, but he's loyal, you know? Like when I first went to prison or when I was going through it, he stood up for me a lot

at school and he was young. Whenever people are saying a lot of bad stuff online, he would be the first to defend me. Oh, dang. Yeah, because I bet that was like... He's four years younger, yeah. So it was like right when he was a freshman sophomore in high school, kids are really mean, and he would just defend him. me against them. Was there like a lot of like internet drama type?

Always. There's still internet drama. Yeah. But they just, I mean, it's a small town. They, you know, they sensationalized it. They'd share an article, you know, Danbury teen nightclub owner. But enough about me. Let's get into your story.

Yeah. Where are you from? Where'd you grow up? What's your childhood like? So I grew up basically in and around Richmond, Virginia. And that's the capital of city in Virginia. And, you know, we were in and out. of homes. I mean, I was pretty used to getting evicted from a house. You know, my mom kind of

worked. So single mom raised me. She had dropped out of middle school and kind of just, you know, started running the streets and falling in with the wrong crowd. And excuse me. So then she had me, right? And I kind of just got plopped right into that world. And it really didn't change for a few years. So she raised me as a single mom, you know, not really doing the most legal things, I guess. And I was used to seeing her bring in, like, bags of cash, you know, at home and kind of dump them on the table. And I, you know, from a young age, I drew the connection between, you know, money and positive emotions. And when the money ran out, got to pack up, you know, we go to a different house. And I honestly, I don't think I really understand.

understood that until as an adult looking back. I'm like, okay, that's what was actually happening. But yeah, that's kind of how Richmond was. How old was she when she had you? Man, I should know this, but maybe like 21. So she was young. She was young. And you never met your dad at that age? At that age, no. So it was just you and her no siblings? Correct. And was she bringing in like a lot of boyfriends or anyone around? Yeah, so that was an interesting thing. She dated a lot. And so two things. She dated a lot. And, you know, and I love my mom. I have nothing but love for her unconditionally. So there's no like, uh, ill will towards the past. But she dated a lot of guys, but she was also very abusive. And so those are the two things that kind of

defined my childhood. She was abusive to you. Yeah, yeah. In what way is like mentally, physically? Um, I mean, maybe mentally, you know, but mostly physically. Like just, yeah, just physical. abuse. Really? Yeah, there's a few, most of it, like, on a day-to-day was, like, I was a kid, right? And I would come up and I would, like, tap her, you know, on her leg or something and say, like, I had a question or I wanted to point something out and she would, like, turn around and just kind of, like, backhand me.

That was the most common thing, was just getting, like, smacked across the face, like, over. And it was very unpredictable. And because it was unpredictable, like, I didn't really know, like, oh, it's because I did something wrong, you know, there was no connection I can make, which ironically, later in life, when I did get incarcerated or kind of start getting into more fights, especially while I was incarcerated, I think it's one of the things that led me to kind of adopt this, like, strike first mentality, because in my life, like, you could get attacked very easily, very quickly, and for no real, you know, reason. And so, like, when I was locked up and, you know, something would kind of

start to bubble up, I just went straight to attack. And so I think that was because of my childhood. So yeah, there was that. I don't think she was like emotionally, you know, or mentally abusive. I, you know, experienced some of that later in life, but mostly just that. Not that it makes it right what she did, but do you think she was just too young and not, was not ready to have a child at that age, which is why she acted a certain way? So what she had told me years before, like, you know, maybe like seven, 10 years ago, I don't know, was the people around her were telling her that's how you should do. That's how you should treat him. And I think she took that to an extreme. She didn't have any guidance or kind of role modeling. I mean, she herself is a, you know, outcast kind of black sheep of the family, you know, has been pretty much disowned by a lot of our family. Unfortunately, you know, has been pretty much disowned by a lot of our family. Unfortunately. emotionally. And yeah, so, you know, I don't think she knew what she was doing, but then you add, like, drugs and you add alcohol and you had all that stuff in it, you know, things happen. Maybe

it was accidental. And there are worse things than just getting back handed it. Of course, yeah. But, yeah. Now, were you close with any, like, cousins or aunts, uncles, grandparents? Was any of those people in your life at that age? They were, they were, yeah, I mean, around, like, we would go to, like, my grandpa's house, you know, the family would gather. We'd do like Christmas there. I had cousins who were basically like the same age. So yeah, we were close. I mean, I think a lot of people in their family, like as your kids, you're like, oh, that's my cousin. Like you're kind of like friends and kind of best friend type. But then as you grow older, you know, people, you know, move on with their lives and kind of go their own directions, become their own people. So that was like

the normal aspect of your childhood, having, you know, at least that resemblance of family. Yeah. That's a, I've never thought of it that way. That's a, yeah, that's a good point. At least I find, like, some comfort in that as a kid. Yeah, I would say that was normal, you know, for sure. What about close friends? Are you someone that has a lot of friends or are you bullied or maybe you're even the bully? What's like that dynamic?

I've never been a bully and I've never been bullied. Okay. That's good. Yeah. I, well, part of it is because I was always, like, you know, from a child, you know, if there was an issue, like, I was absolutely ready to, you know, do something. something about it. But I would say that, you know, at six, age six, my mom married a guy in the military. And so when that happened, I started moving around a lot because we were in Richmond at first, you know, all sorts of places. And then he was stationed out in Norfolk, Virginia, because he was in the

Navy. That's where there's a big naval base out there. And then he would get deployed to like Germany or, you know, and he was from actually Wyoming. And so like we went out there. So we start moving around. So my my circle of friends, you know, as a kid, is just kind of changing. As far as like, you know, physical interaction or like bully, bullying, like none of that stuff. But like I said, I got into the two things, like relationships and abuse. Like for some reason, I was like this mixture of a lover and a fighter because I saw my mom and all these relationships. And I was like, oh, that's what people do. So literally to this day, the longest relationship I've ever had was in kindergarten in first grade. For a dating, I could really?

That's the longest relationship? I dated one girl for two years. That doesn't count. Dude, I'm two years, a two year long relationship. Yeah, but it's kindergarten. You can't process any of that. That doesn't, you know? Still counts.

I don't even really count like my girlfriend from eighth grade as like a real, I don't know. Because I've just like I've learned so much about relationships and stuff. That's totally fair. Yeah. You just like, even maybe high school ones. I don't know because I guess at that point I never experienced like a real, like what it means to genuinely when you break it down, be in a relationship. with someone and grow to love someone like that. You know, when you think about that when you're older, it's just, I don't know, it's totally

different. There's a lot more involved. But I will say in defense of that relationship, my mom had a boyfriend at the time who, for my girlfriend, her name was Kara, for her birthday, he bought her for me to give a Barbie Jeep. A Barbie Jeep. Like, shout out to Barbie. I mean, that's a big thing right.

But like the whole, like the big, not the one you could actually sit in, but like the big one for like the Barbie doll or whatever. Yeah, I saw the movie last weekend. I still haven't seen it. You gotta go see it. Two guys who were in prison talking about going to see. So I, we wrapped this up in like a big box and I remember as a kid, this thing was humongous. And I went to like first grade, like I went to class.

And the way the classes were is like there was one class here and there was like this little wall that divided the class but you could walk in between. And so she was in the next class. And so I brought this giant present over to her in front of. all these kids, you know, and she was like, oh, and her mom, like, found out my mom's phone number and, like, excuse me, called her and was like, oh, thank you, you know. So it was a meaningful relationship. Now, you were saying that your mom, you know, would bring home money here and there, whatnot. Were you guys, like, financially stable growing up? Like, no. So what about, like,

food, toys, Christmas's birthdays? What's that like? I don't ever remember going hungry, but there were definitely times where we all were aware that like there was no more money and food was starting to run out. A specific example is there was one Thanksgiving. So this is a few years later of maybe like nine, you know, 10, maybe a little bit older. But I had some other siblings at this point. And there was a Thanksgiving where we had no money, like zero dollars. And so my mom just started packaging stuff up that we had bought previously and found the receipts and took get back to the stores and she got like $40 scrounge together and then went out and bought like a turkey and you know the cranberry you know sauce or whatever you know like stuff and slap together

a Thanksgiving meal um so we were like on that edge but I definitely wouldn't say like we'd ever like went hungry no you know and as you get older like you're going into middle school and high school is that when like the fighting starts no fighting started day one so So, so. While you were in kindergarten fighting? Absolutely. Really? Yeah.

So back to your point on relationships and that was back when like you could steal somebody's girlfriend. And at kindergarten, we had girlfriends. Look, we had like crushes. We grew up in different world. Wow, this is wild. So a dude stole my girlfriend, right, Kara. And then to make it even worse, he made me tell the class what they were going to do at recess the next day. What, kiss each other on the cheek?

Not K-I-S. Oh, KIS. Okay. So I'm like, and you know, I'm a kid. I'm like, you know, they're going to KIS. So anyways, on the way back from recess, it was like outside and there was this sidewalk you had to walk on. I got out of line and just dropped him and started stomping his head into the ground. But where does that come from? Like, where does that mentality come from? Like at that age? Again, I think it's the upbringing. It's, it's, you know, abuse was normal in, in my house. And so I was taught that. that physical expression was an appropriate, like physical violence was an appropriate expression of internal emotion. And so that's all that was. And you think you processed that though? Like you translated your mom hitting you at that age

to you have to go hit someone else? Like isn't that? I don't think it was a conscious thought. Yeah, it was just like, do it. It's just life. Yeah. Like this is just how life is. I mean, at like six, like I pulled a knife out on a kid.

You had a knife. Yeah, I got one of those Swiss Army knives. somebody I had one of those when I was a kid my godfather who he's passed away um he gave me a Swiss army knife next day I'm rolling around the neighborhood and you know a kid is like hey like I could beat you up you know how kids are just saying stuff yeah and so I pulled out the knife and I'm like not with this and then his mom sees it his mom was like big woman and she comes out and she's like it's like look me like a video game like the final boss Like, I'm not ready for this.

So anyways, my parents, they are my mom and the guy she was dating who she ended up marrying, the military guy. They had actually conveniently pulled up. They used to have a Camero, a teal Camero, and they saw it, and they took the knife from me. So did they have like a sit-down conversation with you? No. It was just the knife.

You never really had direction or like real parenting. No, I don't think so. The guy she married, would you ever call him a father? Yeah, yeah, for sure. So he grew to be a father? Absolutely. He was kind of a rambunctious, like, military, young guy, you know, but, and he, he acted more like a best friend. So really, that's what I was more used to is my mom always acted like a friend or like a big sister, not a parent.

Because she was so young, too. Yeah, and she was on her own. You know, I'm like her, her, like, little brother kind of thing. Like, that's just kind of how the dynamic was. And the same thing with this guy, but he was military. And so he actually brought in a lot of discipline. However, he has his own like lack of regard for authority, even being in the military, ironically. And so he helped him become more disciplined, but he also kind of, I think some of that rubbed off, like, authority doesn't matter.

And honestly, like, the military is like people view that higher than like the local police. So if you're disobeying them, like, what is the police and all that? And what did teachers in school matter? You know, things like that. How are these schools that you're attending? Like, is it a nice neighborhood decent in this area? I mean, I wouldn't say they're nice neighborhoods. I mean, I mostly grew up.

There were like apartments and townhouses and things like that. But, I mean, I think it was just like the everyday, like, well, you know, maybe not the everyday American, but like a common situation for many people who, like, that's what they can afford. and and maybe maybe they have a nice car and that's it, you know, and their car poor, you know, or something like that, but not really, I mean. But the schools themselves, like, yeah, they're not, like, violent or, or, like, a bat, like, run down.

No. It's a good area for the most part. Yeah, I think they're normal schools. And, I mean, and I was, like, a gifted student. Like, I remember they used to bring me out of class into, like, these little, like, secret classrooms for like the smart kids. Yeah, I remember this and I was like, oh, this is cool. Like, I know I'm supposed to be here.

Like, this is what I've been waiting on, you know. And they would like do different kind of work, like fun, like interesting things. And there's only like five people in the whole school, you know. But the reality is that there was no reinforcement for any of that at home. Like positive reinforcement. Yeah, nobody cared. You know, my mom dropped out of middle school. You know what I'm saying?

So nobody cared. And to channel your direction, like channel your energy. Yeah, there's no like, hey, how's your homework going? You know, none of that stuff. So how do the fights start to escalate? When do you start to like where it goes from like, you know, a couple of fights in school to, you know, maybe leading to an arrest or getting yourself into hot water? So it's funny. I don't know.

I just kind of wound up in these situations. Like I remember in the neighborhood I lived in. when we moved to Virginia Beach because my step that I was in Norfolk, we lived in a neighborhood that was predominantly black and Puerto Rican. At least that's what I remember. And it was like split by this like little river. And we were on the side with all the black people. And across the river was a Puerto Rican.

And I remember one time we were all at the playground. And that's like 40 of us. Like we're kids rolling deep. And I'm like the only white kid. And the Puerto Ricans are, and we just start like, you know, you know, talking mess to them and stuff. And I'm young. I'm probably the youngest one.

And so I'm like going off. And then they're like, all right. So they come around. And then they're like here with us. And then everybody I was with all of a sudden, they're like on quiet time. And I'm just like, I thought you guys had my back. You know, so I got hung out to drive.

But anyways, they were like, all right, we're going to come back with, you know, one of our little cousins, who's your age, who, and you're going to fight him. And so probably like two. weeks later, I get to knock on the door. And I'm like legit in the house, like playing with trains, you know, like I'm like eight years old. Like you're eight when this happens. Probably. Okay. And it's a dude from my neighborhood named Brandon. It's an older kid. And he's like,

yo, like the Puerto Ricans are here and they got like such and such for you to fight. Like you trying to come outside. And so I'm like, all right. So we go to an alley and there's this kid. He's bigger than me. He's probably like one grade older than me or whatever. And they're like, all right. And so we just like pop off some stuff. He's like, man, it's cold out here. And I'm like, how you cold? You know, you're so fat. Like you can't be cold.

Like you got insulation, you know. And then one of us just starts swinging. You know, but it's like those kind of situations as a kid. Like, I didn't know what I was doing. Like, I'm swinging and he doesn't know what he's doing. We're just children, like, fighting each other. You know, but then now I have a reputation. You know, now Brandon's like, oh, and like word starts getting around.

you know and again like fighting was not a an uncommon thing for many people growing up that's not an uncommon thing but then when I started getting locked up later in life now it's like okay you start to adopt like this code like this mentality like oh you can't say certain words to me you know it's like in prison like there's certain words you just don't say to people and oh if somebody crosses that line then it's like automatic like you have to do something yeah and and there's more opportunities for that. And so it just kind of escalates. It'll be interesting to hear that perspective once we get to that part in your story of because I've encountered those situations too. And just, you know, to give a brief example, something when we were growing up, we would always like call

each other like, you know, bitches or pussy or any of that or like a gay word or anything like that. And I said that in prison like over a card game and dude got up, pulled me the side. He's just like, hey, you know, I know it's your first week, but you say this stuff, you're going to get yourself hurt. So I appreciated that warning because it was just so normal or like suck my dick or anything like that. You say any of those things in prison, you're done. So when's the first time you get arrested? Arrested probably 14. 14 years old. Yeah, I had actually snuck out, met up with some friends. And, you know, we were just trying to smoke, you know, nothing crazy. And actually So we kind of got done with that and I was like, all right, well, let's go do something else.

And I was on my way. We were walking across a food line, parking lot. I saw a truck and I was going to break into the truck. No reason. I mean, I was just like, well, we're out here. We might as well do something, you know? No real thought. Did you want to like be cool, stand out?

No, it wasn't anything like that. I think I was just opportunistic. I was like, we're already out here. There's nobody around. Here's a lone truck. It probably has something. in it. I'm 14. Five dollars to me is valuable, you know. So we're walking across the parking lot and before like maybe 20 feet from this truck, a squad car pulls up and we had been smoking

so he can smell. And he's like, we're the paraphernalia, you know, all this and that. So he arrested us, you know, I got a curfew violate, like of all the things on my rap sheet, a curfew violation is now is also on there. But this was your first. time ever arrested at that point. Yeah, they took me to the station. I didn't, I was actually living with my real dad at this point. So I did meet him and I started living with him because my mom, my stepdad started having tons of problems. But yeah, that was the first. They didn't send me to juvie though. I just went to the station. And what does your mom say? Like when you're arrested, is she trying to like maybe knock sense into you, give you some guy? What about your dad? No one's, no one's saying,

hey, you know, this is a good learning lesson, but let's get this on track. Let's, you know, figure this out? I really wish that somebody had sat me down and talked to me in a way that was conversational, in a way that was, you know, hey, like, maybe you start with what's going on inside of you right now. Like, why don't we kind of, why don't you tell me what you were, what you were thinking? So in a situation like that, do we blame the parents? Like, when you look, because you're a kid, how is a kid supposed to navigate that? Like as a kid, aren't you supposed to get guidance and care? Like, did someone else's actions directly affect the way things would turn out for you?

I think is what is very powerful to think about. And that goes also back to the point of having kids at a young age and everything and not thinking about the consequences of certain things. I mean, I personally resist like the blame. kind of game. Like I, but if I step outside of my own situation and I just talk about the dynamics of parenting and childhood, I agree with you 100%. You know, a child is is going to do what they are led to believe is okay or if they're not, you know, you know, disciplines in a proper or a healthy way, they're going to continue doing things. You know, that's the nature of kids. They're rambunctious

energy and it's unguided. So yes, I 100% agree. And, you know, and I 100% agree. And, you know, And I think what's even more so important also is the relational aspect. There was nobody that I felt like I had a relationship with, like a parent, that I really cared about disappointing. You know, there was nobody who I thought if I disappointed them that would break my heart, you know. And there was no, it just wasn't really like that. The only kind of guidance I got was my, that I remember, maybe people did try to, you know, I don't know, was my godfather. So I have a godfather and a godmother. They were my mom's two best friends.

He's the one who gave me the pocket knife. He told me, I remember this from a young age, he was like, if somebody crosses a line with you, basically, like give him three chances. You know, if somebody offends you or somebody threatens you, you know, give them three chances, forgive them three times. And after that, it's, you know, it's like go time, basically. And so I carried that into, like, even when I was locked, up. So if somebody, there were times where somebody would, you know, call me to be word. And I would ask,

are you sure you want to say that? And I would ask three times just because of that lesson that he taught me. But honestly, as time went on, I stopped asking. I was just like, no, I already know what's up. So you're definitely someone that, like, looks around at their environment, learns off, like, the land and kind of just, like, goes with it. That's interesting. So where does it progress? You get arrested for this incident, it doesn't end there. So where does it get worse? So the context around all that is when I was around 10, my mom and stepdad, you know, they're like, we're living on a military base in Germany. Germany, wow. Yeah, which is crazy because like my stepdad like fled from the MPs, you know, like, he was AWOL. Yeah, we went to another country. We went to Austria.

You went to Austria? Yeah, we fled out of the military base in the Austria. Oh, bad. On the Autobahn, you know, you're just like speed. He went straight. And what's crazy, because I remember he came to the house because him, my mom were living separate. And he came one day out of the blue and was like Joshua. And he said, Joshua, pack your shit. I was like, all right. So I'm a kid.

And I just, I throw my PlayStation, you know, whatever. And I got this game and I didn't realize it's until years later called Need for Speed, where you elude the police and chases. And it wasn't. And so we got to Austria. And the only thing I'm thinking about is like, how do I hook up my PlayStation? And I'm playing knee for speed. And we just lived it, you know?

So anyways, they had tons of issues. So they decided the MPs actually, they came out. I was in a squad car at 10 years old, you know, while they were in the police station with my mom and my stepdad. And they came out and they brought me in and they said, hey, we think it's best that you go to live with your real father in the States. And I had met him. And I used to visit him, but I didn't really like know him, know him. And so I was excited. I was like, man, finally, this is going to be, like, this guy's going to understand me. Like, he's the big version of me. Like, he is from whom I came. You know what I'm

like? Like in the movies, every kid's excited to meet his like real parent. Yeah, like he's, he's going to think my jokes are funny. You know, he's going to understand my, you know, how I am. Man, when I got there, he was like the exact opposite. He was very, very stern, very quiet, very reserved. And what I often say is like he, I don't know. that inherited is the right word. But he kind of inherited this problem child because, you know, all the things that you point out were true. Like, I didn't really have a lot of guidance or structure. So I come and I'm like getting in trouble in school, getting kicked out, you know, all these things. And he was just more like, okay, well, I just have to go overboard with, like,

discipline. And it just didn't work. It just pushed me further and further away from him. And it made me angry. And that's where, like, I say more of, like the emotional kind of abuse came in because he was somebody that I wanted to connect with and wanted to be friends with because mind you like all of my parental figures are like friends not parents and I wanted so desperately to like connect with my father like my dad and I just felt like I got you know like kind of kicked in the face instead and I 100% see how my behavior led to that situation. But it just really didn't set things up well.

So I end up becoming a very depressed, very angry person. I go into like a really dark place because this happens like, you know, over time. And that's when it's like, all right, well, like, who cares about the law, you know? So I get arrested. Then there's like this, this is a perfect moment for like something pivotal to happen. Like somebody good to like come in. So I get a knock at the door one night. These two guys who I had known, one of them had just moved into like the neighborhood near me.

And they were like, yo, you want to go outside? And it's nighttime. We're probably like 14, you know. And I was like, yeah. So we go out and start breaking into cars. Just casually. Just casually. That's what these guys do.

And you were like, let's go break into cars. Yeah. I didn't even know what we were doing. Yeah. I was just rolling with them. And we go into a neighborhood. They start like rifling through cars and stuff. And I could see.

and mind you at this point, I legitimately did not care about living. Like I did not feel like I had anything to lose. If you could throw me in jail and you would not be taking anything from me. You could kill me. And I'm like, okay, that's how dead I was on the inside at that point. And so these guys, they would be like reticent to break into a car that had like a little flashing red light because it has an alarm system. And I was just like, F that, like, you know. Because I had, so I started going to further extremes than people who I was with who were

introducing me to crime. So very quickly things escalated. You know, we started stealing cars. I didn't even know how to drive a car when I stole one. You know, I'm hitting a gas pedal. It's revving. We're like outside of the guy's house. And I'm just like, why isn't it moving?

Like, doesn't that how you do this? And my friend's like, no, you got to put it in drive. I'm like, how you put it in drive? You know, I've only ever been a passenger. Yeah. So we're still in cars, you know, we fall into the drug world. And the thing that I found connection in that world, because there's a lot of people who are outcasts from their families.

There's a lot of people who come from broken homes. And so I connected with people like that, and I felt like I was at home. You know, I felt like I belonged. like I belonged. And I think deep down, like, ultimately, that's what we're as humans looking for as a place where we can belong among other people. Yeah, and we do crazy things to obtain that feeling and emotion. Yeah. I mean, it's the same, it's the logic behind, like, why, you know, a girl or a guy will stay with an abusive partner or why people will, you know, do things to fit in and be cool or the bullying or things like that. It all starts with, like, that mindset. You mentioned drugs. Are you,

using, selling, what kind of drugs? Yeah, I mean, both. You know, they come hand to hand, right? You start using, you start selling. And, you know, yeah, it's just weed at first. And what year? Like, what time frame is this? Again, 14, 15.

But like what, what? Oh, man, you got make me do some. It's not like it's this year where weed's legal, you know? No, no. Just to put it into perspective for everyone. No, this is like probably, I'm 32 right now. So early 90, or in the 90s when this all happened? No, it's 2000.

Early 2000. Early 2000. Yeah. I'll give my numbers all mixed. But yeah, a little less than two decades, like maybe 15 years ago. What kind of drugs are you doing yourself? So mostly weed, pills, any kind of pill that comes. Because there's like, you know how this is so strange how like there's the categorical

distinction between drugs. If you do certain drugs, you're a junkie. If you come, you know. Yeah. No one calls up. a pothead of junkie. Yeah. But I'm in Narcotics Anonymous, although Anonymous Program, I shouldn't say that on a park.

Oh, you are in Narcotics? Yeah, absolutely. To this day. I was in two meetings today, virtually, one in Athens, Greece, and another in Hydrobed. You're teaching the class, or? No, there's no teacher. It's just people. That are talking and connecting.

After all these years, you've stuck with it. Oh, yeah. 100%. That's awesome. Yeah, that is where I find, like, man, without that, I would, I would, I probably would, that's a huge part of what changed my life. That keeps you grounded. Man, every day, because I'm, I got issues up here.

It's not, I don't have a drug problem. There's really no such thing as a drug problem. Drugs are the solution, not the problem. The problem is something in here. It starts somewhere, yeah, somewhere in there. Exactly. So, but anyways, yeah, so at first, just, I was, you know, weed, pills. But then we start selling, you know,

and then gradually, like, start, you know, I had a friend who was a, like, one of my friends who I was running the streets with was a small group of us. He ended up getting shot in the head and kill in a drug deal. His dad was a crack dealer and coke crack. And he was locked up at the time. And he actually ended up attending his funeral, like, from prison. So he got to release, you know, had like the black box, like in the jumpsuit, all this stuff to go to his son's funeral.

you know, but when he got released, he went right back to selling crack. So now he's our plug, right? So we're going over his house, as a trap house, just straight out of his home. And yeah, so, I mean, we gradually get into all that stuff because at that point, it's just entrepreneurial. It's just money. And if I can sell this bag of contents that weigh this amount and get this amount of profit, but I can sell the same bag and get twice as much.

profit or 3x or whatever why wouldn't I just sell that so it's just entrepreneurial decisions not like a you're continuously getting arrested though like I read somewhere between like your early age and by the time you made it out of prison you're arrested what like 15 times or something like yes I mean something like that I don't know the exact numbers but yeah I was in and out of juvie so yeah so drug charges I'm breaking into houses breaking in the car you all that stuff um so yeah I'm in and out of juvie And then I end up in drug court, which I don't know if you know what drug, but it's like...

I've heard of it, yeah. So the way mine worked was I had caught some Coke charges, Coke. I got a call it with Coke and crack and maybe something else. I'm not sure. But anyways, I had like a sentence over my head for like two, three years or something like that. I don't know. And the way drug court in my case worked was you pleaded in. And so you plead guilty.

But if you finish the program, they wipe your charges. I'm guessing you never finished. I ain't finished the program. So that was like your longest sentence over your head. Yeah. So why didn't you finish? Like what did you do? Because I was still selling drugs.

So you were on drug court still selling drugs. Absolutely. How did they catch you? They caught me selling drugs. So they just caught you and then you got arrested? So I was in a group home. I was in foster care. So I end up.

leaving my dad's house because the situation just got worse, especially as I started getting locked up, you know, our tension. And now I'm starting to get old enough to where, you know, my dad's not so big, you know, like, who does he think he is saying these things? You know, and so there's a lot of tension. I started getting locked up. I get in the state, the state-run group home, which is basically like juvenile attention, but like it's right next door. And then I get into foster care. So as I get in the drug court, they know my home situations. And they're like, yeah, we support you not going home.

So they had actually got a scholarship. I'm the first person that they had ever gotten a scholarship or sponsorship to get into foster care because it costs money. And so I was in foster care and there's like eight of us, eight all boys. One of them had been locked up. We used to call it going upstate when you got sent to the, juvenile prison. So he had just got home from upstate. That was his halfway house technically.

And I'm selling to some of the dudes in the foster care, but I was also working at Wendy's at the time. And I'm selling, so you know how fast food stores work. Like there's a Wendy's and right next to it's a Taco Bell and a KFC. So I'm selling to all of them out of the Wendy's. And at the drive-thru. Not like through the drive-thru. Okay. because I've had friends that have done that before in high school.

No, I certainly would have tried, you know, but that's like a quick transaction. Like, can't take an order and do you want some bud, you know? But I would leave, and you know, when they're, like, cleaning the stores, that's when I would make my rounds to the different stores. And they're, like, breaking down the store and, like, cleaning the grill and all this stuff. And I'd just be selling to all the people. And, I mean, this is, like, managers and everything. Like, they all... So anyways, I had one night I was, like, bagging.

up and or I had to break down some I don't know I had to do something so they were doing searches in the in the group home because some of the one kid had like some like his PSP or something like stolen and I had it but they weren't going to find it and so I just wanted in to search my room so I could break down my wheat and I just I literally urged them I said come search my room come search my room get it over with so I could be at peace when I'm breaking down and like I got scales out on the table. And I, bro, I don't know, this is like a god. I have no idea. Own it all. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly big board buck slot machine by aristocrat gaming, Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is giving

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Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. Investment management and advisory services provided by Wellfront Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. Investing involves risk to principle regardless of the strategy used. Task performance does not guarantee future results. Yeah, why it happened, but I had a bag in my laundry basket of like, all it was was like six dime bags. But they were all like little, you know, from one of my rounds. And the staff just picks it right up in front of me. And I had a dude who I was also selling weed to standing in the doorway, watching.

And as soon as I saw that, I looked at him and I said, go away. Like, you got to go. Because now I'm trying to, like, work with this guy and be like, hey, man. Like, I know you just saw what you saw, but let's work something out. Because I got this time over my head. Plus, I might have these new charges. So, but yeah, that's how that. It doesn't work.

It gets you jammed up. Yeah. So I tried to tell him. I was like, if you don't flush this down the toilet, they're going to send me to prison for three years. and he didn't care he just he was like listening or maybe he was just giving the impression he was listening because he was like one of the cool staff and um but he didn't do it looking back i should have just snatched it from him and went flush to myself but you know hindsight 2020 imagine it like the thing

i'm stuck on with you is imagine if like you just had like a like a two-parent household or even one like steady parent household your life would be so different i mean i guess there's no way of telling but I feel like it would have been. So I think you highlight a point that's true for so many people because we tend to look at people who are incarcerated or who have criminal charges and say like, oh, this is a bad person. But the reality is it was oftentimes a bad environment.

Yeah. So that's one of the things today that really breaks my heart because thankfully my life, you know, has changed. It's taken a lot of work. But everything that you're saying is true and there's people living through that right now who are going to get locked up. Yeah.

You know. So you get sentenced to prison now for this? Yeah. So I got sent to a place called Beaumont, which is in Virginia. This is a juvenile detention center or it's a prison? This is a maximum security juvenile prison. It's for people who are like roughly between the ages of like 1721.

So if you have juvenile life, like you're going to go to a place like this. What kind of kids are there? Like what kind of charges? Everything. Everything. Murder, sex offenders, gang bang. There's sex offenders that young. Absolutely.

They have their whole unit. At that age? Yes. Now, what kind of cases are those for sex offenders that are that young? I don't know. You never, oh, you didn't interact with any. So they kept them. Because mind you, so the way this prison was, there were three sides of it.

There was a men, a medium, which we called the hill. and a maximum security. I first landed in the max, and the max units are very small. Like, there's maybe 12 people. And I'm on the max in it's a very interesting environment. But they're saying on the max,

they're like, man, over on the hill, like they're getting it in, you know, because there's a little bit more freedom so you could run up in somebody's room, you know, and they're saying all these stories. And this is something I've learned about prison in general is people will just tell Yeah, you get caught up in a conversation and it's, you're there for hours.

Dude, well, people talk about like, oh, that prison, there's this happening and this happen. And it's like, people tell these, it's all like, all these war stories and people get this hyped up view of like everything. Like, oh, this prison is the worst and all. It's like, then you get there and you're like, I'm just sitting with these people. And it's like, we're just playing cards. You know what I'm saying? Like, so that's what they're, the max, ironically is hyping up the hill, the medium side. And so I'm like, I need to go to the hill. So that's when I see like they had the sex offenders on a whole separate unit, a whole separate wing. And yeah, they didn't let them really interact with the rest of the population.

And you know, what's interesting is because like I'll tell stories about my experience with sex offenders and people will say, oh, they're like what you're saying, they're housed in different units and literally every prison is different. Yeah, it's different. And the feds they co-mingle, some state they don't, some states they do, like everything's different. So it's interesting to hear that perspective that you didn't have any interactions with them. I think it's good for the audience to know too. Dude, prisons, I was actually, when I was riding with your bro on the way here, I was explaining this, every state has a different prison system. Like the way the prisons are different. And then you have, you got a camp, you know, a minimal, a medium, a max, you got a supermax.

So you could have different politics just based on the state. Then you could have different security levels. And then so you have multiple, like you could have three or four medium prisons in a state. You know, so you have all these different experiences and they're potentially all run different. And every inmate has their own story. And then you have the unique person. Yeah. Like you are going to tell a story completely different than the last two.

guests we've had on. And that's, it's fascinating at that part because I could ask the same person, the same question they're going to tell it. Totally different experiences. Because guys I was locked up with who were in the same exact units, totally different experiences. So you're this teenager that goes to prison. How do you learn the ropes and the politics and the ends and outs? Because you had never really been to like a real prison like that before at that point. So one thing in prison, unfortunately, is people always respect violence. So like, if you, Or somebody who jumps into things like that. Well, I can't say always.

Generally, you will develop a reputation and people will, you know, kind of like, it goes in your favor. I guess unless you, like, got knocked out or something. But I start connecting with people who are kind of more in that crowd. And I gravitate naturally to some people who are gangbanging. And, like, I develop close friendships with, you know, some of these. these people, and they just become my homies. And then as I start going through the prison system, I had been a drug court, which is incredibly like, they put such a tight leash around you.

I had a police officer coming to Wendy's that I was selling drugs out to, like, urine test me every week, multiple times a week. I'm going to court every week standing before a judge. They could lock you up on the weekends if you failed a test. I failed a test for alcohol one time that I didn't even drink. And so they put me in jail for like the week. So by the time I, all this came crashing down and they just sent me away, I was like, thank God. Like all of the stress and burden and worry is gone.

They can't do anything else. And I'm thinking, this is a gladiator school. You're not the first person that said that out of your gladiator school. Yeah. It's a common term. I never heard that when I was in prison. Like, how does this, J.D. said it. We had someone on here the other day that said it.

We actually have an whole episode called Gladiator School Cup. By the time people hear this, it'll already have been out. Okay. But where does that terminology come from? Man, where does any term ever come from? It's so wild. Like, Chomo. Yeah, Chomo.

Yeah, I don't, I mean, I get it, but. It's interesting what you were just saying about how it was a relief because a lot of people that commit crime or do things or they push it, push it because they're trying to escape something that gets them that freedom, which it's not really freedom. Prison or death is not freedom, but it gets them that escape from their situation that's just so miserable. Yeah. You know, just like in those toxic relationships or the crime or the drugs, people keep doing

it and doing it and doing it hoping it's going to end somehow and not in a positive way. Well, I mean, even just to back it up, like for a second, you know, Juvie, before I got sent, you know, to Beaumont, Juvie was the most stable environment I had ever had because my house always changing, different people. I'm moving from my grandma to my aunt to group homes. I go to, I get in Juvie, it's the same people, the same staff, it's the same guys, you know, that I'm running the streets with. So that was my only stable community. And by the way, back to the influence of older people, when I'm getting in fights in there, the staff are like cheering me on. In this new prison.

No, no, no, I'm talking about beforehand. Okay. Like before I even got sentenced to the longer time. Yeah. Because, like, I would fight somebody and, like, they would literally rewatch the security footage. And then they would, they tell me this. And then I'd be walking on the hallway and they'd be like, you know, I'm just like, and I'm an impressionable young teenage boy, you know,

and these are the only, and I'd look up, I don't care what you say, young teenage boys look up to older men. And those older men, I think, unfortunately, negatively reinforced behavior that really somebody should have pulled me aside and been like, man, you know, do you know what real strength is? You know, real strength is being kind to somebody. when they don't deserve it. Have you ever tried that?

And I really wish that something like that happened, and especially before you get sent to prison. You know, catch people while they're young. You know, catch them while they're, before they get, you know, more set into that. No. Because it just gets worse. Like, when I, I'm, now I'm, you know,

I get sent to this prison, I'm starting running with gang beggars. And now is like a, a field day because I'm like who y'all trying to fight yeah well let's say you you went from fighting in the street to fighting in prison what kind of like fights are you getting into in this prison I mean it's it's I mean it's all fist fight but it's like now it's groups of people is it over is over certain things or it's sometimes I don't even know like so the way so one of my best friends was a higher ranking blood member so you joined the blood no I never joined

bloods but I'm hanging with bloods and that was allowed it was but I'm also like fighting people and so now I'm asking him like where's the problem at like point me in a direction you're the enforcer for the bloods I wouldn't go that far but there was like I would literally ask him like yo who do you want me to go spark it off on and like there was a time where there was another gang on our unit. And I have no idea what the background situation was. Because this is the thing about gangs is like, it's super like covert ops.

There's always something going on. There's like this underground information. Like this, you know, somebody flew a kite to this person and like relayed this word. And, you know, somebody's trying to rank up and all this stuff. Yeah. And so there were these guys.

And I was like, look, let's just roll on them. And I got one of his little homies. and so I'm like, you down? And he's like, yeah, I'm down. So, like, we just go set it off on it. And we're outnumbered, but I was like, you know. So situations like that, it's just fist fights. But, like, you just get into that.

And again, that's where, like, you ask, how do you get acclimated to a prison? When you're doing things like that, you know, you just, you make, I think you make friends, you know, And people are like, okay, like, cool, like don't mess with that guy or whatever. And so what was really actually interesting was later on in my incarceration, I got tired of that stuff. And I got tired of the politics inside of the prison because it's very juvenile. Like, I don't mean like juvenile, but I mean just like it's very immature. Like, oh, this is our table. Yeah, what are some of the prison rules that an average person wouldn't expect that would ever be a rule that people,

form in prison? Rules. That the inmates form. I would say, like, there are some common things like, you know, basically, like, mind your business, like, don't get involved in situations. But it's more so, like, I would not describe them as rules, but more so dynamics. Like, you walk into a unit, there are people who carry it, like, they run that unit, you know, and they carry a certain, like, chip on their,

shoulder about that, you know, and like, hey, this is our table. Or like, you can look into a prison, like you can look onto a unit and see everybody who's like sitting with their back to a wall. And typically, like, that's a, I would say generally you could tell who has the most power on the unit by where they're sitting. Because like the people who have their backs inward to the unit are typically like, most people aren't going to do that. So somebody who's like, got more clout is going to like have the best seats, you know, like little stuff like that that you start to pick up on. But I would say it was more like dynamics. There was never like, well, I guess for a rule was like, I think every unit has its own culture and like expectations. So like when I hit the

max, I remember one time we had the showers. I don't know, you ever had the showers where you had to push the button. Yeah, those were the worst. It's like 30 seconds and never gets fucking hot. It's crazy. And I take long showers. So I remember my first day, I hit the button. And ours ran for like four minutes maybe. And I wasn't done. So I hit it again. And I finish up and I walk out.

And a guy who like legit, he ran the unit. He was actually, he probably, I heard about him when I was on the streets. Like he kind of like ran the prison. He was on my unit. And he's like, hey, we don't burn showers over here. And I didn't know what he meant at first. But he's, I'm like, what are you talking about? And he's like, we just do a single like shower run.

You know, so I think every unit and that unit particular, they weren't trying to like bring heat or awareness onto that unit because they have stuff going on under the table. And that's the thing people don't understand. Like the most disruptive people inside of a prison are young people and new people and especially young new people. But the whole prison's young. The oldest person you're saying is 21.

Well, I mean, it's beyond that. So like when I left there and like went to a, you know, you know, jails and all this stuff. I mean, it's the same kind of dynamic. But new people still. Because they erupt the flow. Yeah. Because people come in, they're like, oh, I was like running stuff on the streets.

That's what I'm doing here. And it's like, hey, bro, like, we have a system in here. And we don't want to bring attention to the unit because, again, there might be something else going on. How did you support yourself in prison? Financially. Did you have, like, a hustle? or people sending you money?

So I never really got any money sent at first, because mind you, I don't really have good relationships with my family and I didn't have like a girlfriend or, you know, any of that stuff. But mostly I'm just doing what? Most people are like, I'm just hustling and gambling. And so, and then, you know, if you, you're trying to buy something, just charge an interest,

you know, two for three kind of deal, like pay me later. So mostly that But it's just like there's no like real You know hey I sell Like I had people who wanted me to do tattoos and things But like there's no real like I'm the tattoo guy And it's mostly just common hustle

Whatever you get your hands on Which is what I feel like a lot of the white guys end up doing It's it's what pretty much anybody Like everybody hustles But I think it was a little more strategic about How I set people up with like debt and things like that. What do you think is like the craziest thing you witnessed

during your incarceration? Oh. I made a TikTok about this video. There was a guy who attacked one of the staff with a soap and a sock. A soap and a sock. And that's not the crazy part. The crazy part is just how the staff treated him afterwards.

Like they, so they were in a Sally Port where there's like no cameras. And they had all. already subdued him. And they just kept stomping his head into the ground. The staff are stomping because the kid went with a lock in a sock or soap in a sock. Yeah. And they're just like over and over. And mind you like half of the unit is not even in the Sally Port because they cleared it out. But I'm just like caught in the door so like I can see everything. And they're just like brutalizing this kid. What happens to the kid? He just, they sent him to the hole.

and maybe the hospital, and that's it. Why would he even attack a guard? So the reason is because the guard, he made a joke with him and called him a sex offender, which he wasn't. But he said he was the only sex offender locked up for touching himself, which was pretty funny. But he didn't apparently like that. Which granted, like I get it.

But he was like, if there was a guy, you were gonna make a joke like that about or with and not worry about it this was the guy but you know he he didn't take that that's crazy yeah this is totally off topic but as anyone ever told you you look like like a young Elon Musk a little bit yeah I just got like the glimpse with the light and I'm like holy shit it's so funny yeah it just reminds me how rich I'm not yet so it's a good aspiration yeah um back to the shower thing real quick uh because of the age that you, the prison you guys are in, the young age demographic, what was the showering like?

Like, are you got, no, I'm serious because it's like, I remember being a kid when I would go to like a gym at YMCA or anything. Like I wasn't comfortable showering like naked in front of guys. It wasn't a normal thing. In high school, there were shower stalls. In these prisons, are you guys like showering together? How does that work? I want to make a joke right now, but people take it out of context.

So I'll just answer you your question. No, we got to hear the joke, too. You can't. It was just, like, rubbing each other's bags, you know, everything you think, dropping this, yeah. Yeah. So, um, it's typical, so I've seen a couple different ways.

On the max, it's a single person shower at a time for obvious, like those are all high security, you know. And the medium, it was four people to a shower. You all go in at the same time. It's usually, because there's two people in each cell. So they usually pop two cells in the same time. And that's kind of like you go with the same people every night. But, yeah, it's just,

four showerheads, everybody showers. Same thing as time. Most people are, like, they shower in their boxers. And they like to wash their boxers. Yeah, they wash their boxers while they're showering. Do you know what the logic is behind that? The washing the boxers in the shower? I mean, it's like two and one.

Like, it's efficient, you know. But I think also some dudes just don't want to be like, you know, swinging around with a bunch of other dudes, you know, so I get it. And with the joke you're about to crack, can you describe, like, the stigma behind, like, don't drop the soap? Does that actually exist? No, dude, I have, that's the one you ask like, what is terminology? That, who knows where that came from?

Because it is like the biggest untruth about prison ever. Like, and I've heard other people, I think like maybe even Jesse, you know, had made a video or something. Jesse did. I think that one went on viral. He was talking about stigmas because I stitched his video or he stitched mine, something like that. Yeah.

But it's like, there is a reason you don't. don't want to drop the soap. And it's because the floor is disgusting. So like, yeah, but there's no real. But when you go in to prison at that age, are you thinking about that? Like, don't drop the soap. Like, I was, I'm not going to lie. I was worried about like how people would think.

I one time remembered I dropped the bar of soap and I left it. I did pick it up. You were actually thinking about it. Yeah, it was like one of my first weeks of prison. And I had never going into prison. and I never used bars of soap. Yeah, true. You know, we used a liquid soap.

Well, and it slipped, so I left it there and walked away. This isn't something that I thought, have ever recently thought, but you just did bring up a point. So when I went into my, like, like, reception and diagnostic, we had a, it was like receiving where they determine your category and, like, which prison you're going to and all this stuff. Because they try to keep people together who are, it's kind of like UFC, like weight classes. Like, they want to put you around people that are your size and all that stuff.

So there's not like some little kid getting, but when I was there, that was the first time I was in the shower like with a group of people. And so, yeah, I was like, what's going to go on in here? But I was more worried about fighting than like somebody's trying to rape somebody. You know, it's more of like is what's going to happen is a situation going to pop off? Because in that area you, you know, are kind of vulnerable. You're in shower shoes, which are not like super grippy. you're on a wet floor, you know, you're with a group of people and you could be with the wrong group of people, you know, so it can be a vulnerable situation. There are definitely people who,

you know, take advantage of that to do things. No. But I mean, when I, when I hear some of these guys share stories like that and that have been to pens and stuff, I mean, I feel very lucky. Sure. Because I was very nonchalant in prison. Like I was a kid that was going down the hallway and a towel on and my boxers and the flip-flops clinking after the shower and like so much shit. Eventually it got that way. Yeah. So much shit could have happened to me. After hearing these stories and I'm like I'm grateful that it didn't.

But it's just, dude, it's so nuts the system. But after after you get acclimated, you have a very in tune sense of what is going on. And you may not know specifically who or what. But you know something. Like you, it's like we develop a six cents. Like something's in the air. Something is about to happen. And I'm on guard.

And I'm ready to attack. Absolutely. You know, you know when things are okay and when they're not just based off of that. Now, something you're very vocal about is the moments that like change your life forever where you have like a deep, you know, finding of whether it was religion or mindset or anything. Can you talk about that time period and what happens? that, you know, made it so that you wanted to change your life? Yeah, so it's funny, you know, you kind of mentioned that because there was a time when I had gotten into the prison system.

Ironically, I had gotten to a beef with a guy who was blood, and he didn't know anything about who my friends were. Like, he was actually basically in solitary. They just had him in a cell temporarily, but they turned it into a solitary cell for him. And we got to beefing because like some other dudes that were from his neighborhood or something like we're popping off or something. And so I came up to his cell one day when I was out of mine. And I could tell when I looked at him and I'm looking at him like straight through his cell door,

I could tell he was somebody who would kill me. And I went back into my cell and I prayed. This is the only the second time I ever prayed in my life that he would find me and kill me. and that was kind of where I was at, you know, all this stuff's going on, but like internally, that's, I don't know why that's where I was, but that's what I asked God. And it wasn't until maybe two and a half, maybe two years later or so, I got transferred to another facility. This is an adult jail, a regional jail, and they had a, what's called a TC, like, therapeutic

community. And I kind of got in there by accident. But that's where everything changed for me. And that's where I started developing more of a relationship with God. And I started praying for different things. But the way I got into that was very interesting also because I had a Selly who was a recovering addict. And he would tell me about this unit and like all this stuff. And he was like, he'd be like, Josh, you're an addict, you're an addict, you know, this and that.

And I'm just like, no, I'm not. Like I have anger issues, you know, or this and that. And then one day he told me, he's like, man, your anger is not what you really think it is. Your anger is really just fear. Like every time you get angry, it's because you're afraid of losing something or somebody misinterpreting it. And you know how important it is for people not to view you as like weak or anything like that. And so I realized that he was right. Like every time somebody says something out of pocket and I get angry and attack, it's really because I'm afraid.

It's I'm afraid of what will happen if I don't. and that shook me because I had never thought of that and I felt like hey this image I had of myself was all really rooted in fear and I was like I know you didn't come up with that by yourself like somebody taught you this so I applied to go to the unit he had gotten kicked out of but I almost didn't make it because there was a guy who I had been gambling with who owed me a tray a tray a tray yeah and I went to collect my tray. Oh, man. And he goes, I don't owe you anything. And that's not a good thing to say. So I was like, all right, we had trays on the way. The trays were really heavy, like big institutional trays. And I was going to attack him with one of the trays. I was like, I'm going to hurt him as bad as I possibly can. But we went down for count or just, you know, while they were moving the trays into the unit. And for the first time ever in my life, I said, man, what is, what is, What does God say about this?

What would God have to say about this situation? And I happened to have a Bible in my cell, and I opened up to a random page. And I was reading these verses, and it said, if your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat. And at the end of that, it said, don't be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. And I was like, man, what in the world? like the reason he doesn't want to give me a tray is because he's hungry just like I am he's absolutely my enemy but I recognize that the feeling inside of me that was triggering me to attack was like this evil that was overcoming me like it was determining my behavior and so in that

moment I realize I need to make a choice to overcome that with you know some form of good and so that's the real battle he's not the real battle The real battles was happening inside of me. And so I made a decision, I'm not going to attack him. And if he tries to give me a tray, I'm going to say no thank you and offer him something off of my tray instead. I made that decision. Nothing happened. He didn't offer anything.

Like the next day they came, pulled me out of the unit and took me to the therapeutic community. Excuse me. And that's where I met people that changed my life. that's where for the first time ever in my life there were people who had been in prison who were ex former heroin addicts alcoholics people who had survived overdoses and they had all you know went and got degrees came back to the facility and were running this this program helping other people like them and I was one of those people and for the I identified with them and I finally felt it's like what you asked me before man

if somebody was just there to provide guidance, you know, would things have turned out differently? And that was the first time I arrived at those people. Isn't it crazy that the thing you were searching for this whole time could only have been obtained for you by going to prison? Like, you had to go to one of the worst places on earth for a human being to endure just to figure out your purpose in life, to figure out things. And a lot of people don't even make it to that because they end up dead, you know, from drugs, from crimes, anything like that.

So you were able to survive that and figure things out. Do you think if you never met that guy in prison, your life would be different now? I'd be dead. So I knew I was, by 25, I was either going to be dead or in a supermax for the rest of my life. And I was honestly okay with those. I was like, 23 and 1 doesn't sound that bad. Like, those cages look kind of cool, you know, that they let people out in for wreck. Like, I was just like, that's my future.

And I remember also the first day I landed on the, Max that, you know, I remember as soon as I got into my cell, they locked the door. I'm looking around. The window was like covered up. I couldn't see out of it. And I remember this is my destiny. Like, this is my destiny. This is where I'm supposed to be. What year do you get out of prison? I think 2011. 2011? What were some hard adjustments that faced you when you got out? So when I got out, I had spent like the last year of my incarceration changing, like forgiving my parents, forgiving other people who had hurt me. Like, you know, all sorts of changes. Becoming a law-abiding citizen, I stopped breaking laws in prison.

Like I stopped trading food. I stopped giving my trays away. Like anything, I got rid of, like, we used to have little pins. I don't know if you had them, but like they're little flexy pins. Yeah, yeah. So you stick a card. you know, in there to get some structure on it. I got rid of, though, like anything.

Because you know what I realized? Like, this is crazy. This is like unconventional. But I was like, man, if I don't have anything, I'm not supposed to have, they can't take anything from me. If I don't do anything wrong, they can't do anything. When I'm doing these wrong, when I have contraband, when I'm out of line, like doing something shady on the low,

I'm giving people power that they can then exert over me to put me in the hole, to take something from me, to extend my incarceration. You know, so I changed all this stuff. When I got out, like, I can't get hired. Nobody wants to hire me. I'm telling everybody I'm a felon. Like, I'm checking the box.

And you're 20, 21. Yeah. Yeah. And, man, nobody wanted to get McDonald's. How'd that make you feel? Shocked and depressed. because I was like, man, I could at least get a job at McDonald's. Yeah.

And the thing is you genuinely changed. Like you knew in your heart you changed. You knew in your mind you changed. Don't you think that that's for some people? Like you were able to tough it out. But for others, that's disheartening. If you commit, like you get sentenced to prison time and you know you've changed like within yourself and you get out and it's just barrier after barrier after barrier.

How does that help that person can take? their change in their journey. It doesn't. It doesn't. And I wish that when you got in cart, when they sentenced you, they also said, you're sentenced to five years, you know, whatever, plus 15 years or a lifetime of employment barriers, of housing barriers, of your bank account, randomly sending you a message saying, we no longer want to bank with you or have you as a, you know, a customer.

Yeah, I've been kicked out of a few banks. Yeah, I wish they would say that because it would bring more awareness that it's not just about serving the time. There are so many longer term real life when you're in society issues and barriers and blocks that are in place that prevent you from being able to operate as an everyday person. I mean, there are people who part of their parole is they can't have a debit card. Yeah. you know like how do you tell your employer you can't give me direct deposit when you pay me you have to give me cash like that looks not sketch you know so i think to answer your question um there's only so much a person can can take and survive under that and i think that threshold is different for all people and i think the amount of community support that person has

is a huge determinant. So, for example, I told you, you know, I got into recovery. I was in Narcotics Anonymous. That was when I was locked up. Like, a lot of those people were part of that fellowship. So when I got out, I started meeting people in Narcotics Anonymous. These are older people. These are all people who have scorched earth-type lives and come from the absolute bottom.

Way worse than anything, you know, I ever dealt with. And maybe didn't even go to prison. Like, there are people who have terrible life stories. and made it through that. And I have now these people in my corner, I can just call them and call them. And I have a social circle of people who have dealt with,

the challenges of life. And without that, I don't know how long you can take it. You have to have that kind of support, even if it's just emotional and social support. I mean, that's why that's so important that this platform exists

and that these stories are getting out there because they haven't really been talked about on this level before. Yeah. And it's just, you know, people that are going through similar situations can find some hope and peace in this knowing that there is that others, thousands of others, millions of people have gone through these situations and they've been able to hold on to something and find a light and a hope to get them through it.

Yeah. And, you know, it's really inspiring in that sense. 79 million Americans has a record. Yeah. That's 79 million adults. there's 260 million adults in America. So this is a huge percentage of the population. Now, that's everything from traffic violations to, you know, capital murder or whatever.

But 113 million American adults, so almost half, has an immediate family member who's been incarcerated or is incarcerated. So this is such a wide-ranging, you know, we tend to treat it as like a pocket-type subset of society. but it's so far reaching. There are so many people who this affects. I mean, you were, the prison that you were in, right? Like, all those people, just imagine like, okay, I saw all those people, but how many prisons are there? Yeah.

You know, there's, so there's two and a half million people incarcerated right now, but there's so many more who were incarcerated, who got out. And there's a lot of people who didn't go back. There's so many misconceptions out there. So, again, we have 79 million people. who have records, only two and a half million are incarcerated, four and a half million are on probation or parole. So that's seven million total. So basically 72, 73 million are no longer in the legal system. So the vast majority of people, you know, get moved through it at some point,

but they still have those barriers, man. There's people with 20 year, 30 year old charges that still show up. Yeah. You know, and oh, sorry, you can't work at. X, Y, Z company, we were going to hire you, but you have a gun charge from 20 years ago. So what did you decide to do with your life after you, you know, with dealing with those struggles of not finding a job and finding work, what kind of life were you able to create for yourself? Man, I tell people all the time, all it takes is one. All it takes is one person to say yes.

And one person did say yes at a hardware store, Ace Hardware had hired me. And bro, I worked there for five years and I gave it my all. I mean, they hired me. They were super like hesitant. They gave me a part-time cashier role, which is like ironic because I have multiple deaths and grand larceny and all this stuff. But they gave me a part-time cashier role. And I just excelled.

And I'm like, while I'm not ringing customers up, I'm putting stuff on the shelves and fixing the shelves and cleaning up and all this stuff. They made me full-time. I'm, you know, within like the first 30 days and then promoting me, you know, so on and so forth. So I take leadership position. I start, you know, basically running the store. They send me to other stores. And then we get bought out.

And then I realized I got to do something different. So I Googled what's the highest paying job in the world. You know, I'm a young, you know, remember I was a drug dealer, as an entrepreneur, young kids seeing bags of cat, you know, like, and I recognize the connection between cash and, like, security, you know. So Google told me that. was a hedge fund manager. Now, I didn't really know what that was, but I'm like, I'm happy to manage hedges, you know, or whatever. So next question, how do I become a hedge fund manager?

Well, you have to obtain a finance degree. Okay, how do I obtain a finance degree? Go to a business school. Okay, what's the best business school in Virginia? And that's where I applied. And you got in? Yeah, I got in. So I started going to school part time while working full time, trying to get scholarships, all this stuff, you know, was trying to try to. I was trying to as much as possible to pay my way through school. And yeah, I got into University of Virginia. And you got your degree? Got a finance degree.

And I went and interned at basically two hedge funds, which is wild. Those are all, I mean, we can glaze over it, but going to that university to begin with, like, I can comfortably walk, I feel like, into any prison and understand, okay, same people, different faces, different names. Like, you know, at a certain point at all. Like you understand it, you get it. Yeah. But when I walked into that university, bro, I was so out of place.

I was like, I don't understand what is going on here. It's such a different environment. It is so different. I'm seeing like dudes with like the, you know, the frat style, like the, you know, Hawaiian shirts with like new balances and like tie socks. And I'm seeing all sorts of stuff. I'm just like, I don't know what this world is. but they obviously think that they are cool and that they got it going on or something.

I'm just like, what is this? And, you know, I struggled for like the first year, like, just getting acclimated. That was harder than getting sent to prison. 100%. Because I didn't know what to do. You know, I'm just like, I got to apply my mind and, like, learn and study. But, yeah, I made it to New York and then went into corporate America and, you know. Never looked back.

And I didn't want to look back, man. I never, when I left incarceration, I never wanted to go back. I never wanted to have anything to do with it. Do you use it as like a motivator though? Do you think about it? Think about your past, your childhood? For me, all that stuff's a daily process, man. You know, I don't find a lot of inspiration or motivation from my past or like, man, look what I came from.

Like, I don't know why. Maybe I should. Everyone processes things and develops discipline, motivation in different ways. Yeah, but it's the daily interaction. I mean, like talking with you and like being here and, you know, that's the kind of stuff. It's like that today keeps me going today all the way until tomorrow. And then tomorrow it's, you know, something new. And I have to train my mind every single day, you know, because I'm my own worst enemy.

I mean, everybody knows that for themselves. No. So yeah, man, it's a constant process. How's your relationship with your mom and your dad? So I, the last year I was locked up, I developed a relationship with my dad through. the visitation room. He would come visit. We talked to the cell phone, not the cell phones, the pay, like, you know, the little wired phones, just like in the movies. I had never talked to my dad more before in my life. And so we just got to know each other. So when I got

released, I went to live with him because I, like, I was coming out on my release date. And I maxed out my time. So, like, I didn't have parole or I'm like super blessed for not having to deal with parole probation officer. And that's the, I was like, hey, man, you know, I'm getting out. I don't really have anywhere to go. My mom can't take me because she's like super financially unstable. But relationships with them are good. I mean, I love my mom.

You know, it's a little bit of those like from a distance type relationships. But I'm currently at the, like this exact moment, actually staying with my dad. I'm just visiting. But he's my best friend, man. I love him. That's awesome, man. And what do you do today for work? What's your life like now?

So I run a company called VO Careers and which VEO careers where we help, we're a recruiting agency for second chance employers. So we help people with felony records, criminal records, find employment, find their career, advance their career. We work with people all over the United States, employers of all sizes and industry types. But, you know, it's been a journey to get there, you know, because I went into corporate America and I'm doing the corporate thing, successful, but, you know, I didn't, I didn't love what I was, what I was doing. I didn't really, and I certainly didn't have a passion for it. And what was

really astonishing to me was now, you know, I'm, you know, on a resume perspective, all these accomplishments, making great money, a lot of people respect and are putting me in positions of influence. But I'm the same guy that McDonald's wouldn't hire, you know? Yeah. The same exact guy. So, you know, there was some education and some learning and some polishing I needed in between, you know, here and there. But, you know, it's astonishing to me how overlooked somebody can be who has talent. And if just given the opportunity, they could exercise, that potential. The old saying, don't judge a book by its cover.

Yeah. And you know what I love is that you had to go through all these things, prison or whatever, to find your purpose and do what you do now. Like without any of that, you wouldn't be where you're at now. And I've been thinking about that more and more because I'm experiencing a success that I've never experienced in my life, even while working for someone else in the corporate world. Then I thought I was successful in that.

and now here I am doing this and it's becoming something and I have to think if I never went to prison which was supposed to be the thing that was supposed to broke me you know destroy me what everyone said like I remember reading all the comments and the postings everyone said your his life's over he's done have fun like I'll still run into people they're like oh how's working at Whole Foods for the rest of your life and I never I wouldn't have this right now you know the thousands of of people that listen to me, the millions that have watched the small clips, I wouldn't have that if the judge never sentenced me to prison. Even if I got house arrest, I probably wouldn't be where I'm at today because I wouldn't have had those experiences from prison. Yeah. I wouldn't

be able to look across from someone like you and connect on that because anyone can interview someone that went to prison. Anyone can do that. Not everyone can relate to that. And I think that's what makes it special. And like, that's the craziest thing about all this. That's, those moments that were supposed to destroy us brought us to the most success we've ever had. And that's, you know, I just love that. I love a good story like that and hearing that. And, you know, that's awesome. If you could go back to your teenage self and sit down with that teenage self, private room, you know, maybe lights off, face-to-face conversation, headphones on. What conversation are you having with that person? What are you saying? What are you

telling yourself. I would say the people that you want to teach you how to live are out there. You just have to ask to find them and ask the people around you to put you in touch with them. And they may not do a perfect job, but they might have some recommendations. And those people will change your life. Just listen to what they say, take some suggestions, try it out. see how it goes. Definitely. And what's your message? Like if you could change someone's life that watches the show or listens to the show, what do you want their takeaway to be? Man. I'm hitting you with all the hard stuff right now. No, it's just how do you boil it down to a single,

um, I talk to so many people, and because of my work, I talk to so many men and women, young, you know, middle-aged, late-state, you know, who are beaten down because they are people who ended up in the system. They made decisions. They, you know, had an addiction. They stole. You know, they committed a crime. Maybe it was only one time, but it was enough to destroy their lives. And now that they're out and they say, I'm never touching the hot stove again. I know it's hot, but the rest of the world says, nope, you have to be burned forever. And they interview at these companies and get told no over and over. Or yes, maybe, you know, we like you. And then they get shut out in the final round, you know, whatever. I see so many people who let that

eat away at their spirit. And I would just say, keep going, connect with people. like you, like me, others who understand, you're not alone. Just keep pressing and don't just keep trying, but try to get educated on how to do it better. You know, how did other people in your situation succeed and copy what they did? Build a community, reach out to people, make new friends, you know, all of those things. Because we all know, we all know, tomorrow doesn't have to be today. But it's how do you get there? And I think in our world, there's a lot of people who today looks just like it did yesterday

and it's not good. And it's sometimes cruel to say, you know, positive words without any real plan of how to get there. But that's what I would say is find people who have the plan. Reach out to me. I mean, reach out to our company. Sign up for our service. you know, will majority of the time, not always, but majority of the time, we'll reach out to people and talk with them

and get people in your corner. You cannot do it alone. Do not try to do it alone. You cannot do it alone. You have to have other people. None of us is, you know, that big, magnificent hero that can shoulder the entire world on our own. We all need help. We all need somebody else. So find those people, connect with them, and also be that person. for somebody else. And just keep moving forward together. Absolutely. Josh, thanks for flying out here today coming on the show. It's been great talking to you. Great to finally meet you. I know we've been, you know, talking back and forth for a few months now.

Keep doing your thing, man. You know, keep going. Keep getting your message out there. Keep progressing. You know, excited to see where you go and continue to stay in touch. And, you know, we have our mutual friend, Jesse. Yeah. Crossing.

Shout out to Jesse. Yeah. was the first ever guest on this show. And you're on his board too for his nonprofit. Yep. So I'm sure, you know, I'll be out in Virginia, you know, not too long in the near future and we'll all get together. Yeah, come say hi. Definitely, man. Well, thank you again. Safe Travel's back. All right. Thanks, man.