Locked In with Ian Bick - Renee Graziano: Mobster Dad, Rat Ex-Husband & Mob Wives

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Renee Graziano joins Ian Bick for a conversation about growing up in a powerful mob family, marrying her ex-husband Hector Pagan, discovering he was a rat, and navigating the chaos that came with her father Anthony Graziano’s prison time. Known for her breakout role on Mob Wives, Renee opens up about the reality of being raised in organized crime, the emotional toll of betrayal, her battles with addiction, and how fame magnified everything she was already struggling with. She breaks down what viewers never saw on Mob Wives, how the show changed her life, what it was really like being one of the most recognizable faces on reality TV, and how she’s been rebuilding her life with honesty and strength. #ReneeGraziano #MobWives #MafiaStories #OrganizedCrime #TrueCrimePodcast #MobLife #CrimeDocumentary #ianbick Thank you to AURA FRAMES & PRIZEPICKS for sponsoring this episode: Aura Frames: Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/LOCKEDIN. Promo Code LOCKEDIN Prizepicks: Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/IANBICK and use code IANBICK and get $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup! Connect with Renee Graziano: https://www.instagram.com/reneegraziano/?hl=en Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 Renee Introduces Her Early Life & Childhood Roots 03:30 Staten Island Memories, Family Stories & Growing Up Mob-Adjacent 10:30 Realizing Her Life Was Different: Early Signs & Family Secrets 18:20 Mob Life Up Close: First Arrests, Loyalty & Family Dynamics 27:00 Marriage, Betrayal & Iconic Mob Weddings 34:30 Motherhood: Raising Her Son & Navigating Hard Conversations 41:10 Losing Loved Ones: Family in Jail, Grief & Coping Mechanisms 46:20 Addiction, Recovery & Holding a Family Together 52:20 Mob Wives: How the Show Started, Drama, Reactions & Behind-the-Scenes Truths 01:01:50 The Betrayal: The Watch, the Wire & the Fallout That Changed Everything 01:15:30 Mob Wives Finale, More Loss & Reinventing Herself After the Show 01:25:30 Recovery, Public Perception & Fighting for Personal Growth 01:34:50 Family, Regret & the Biggest Lessons Renee Learned Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It was about 13 or 14 because I had my first boyfriend and unfortunately he was abusive and I remember my father making that phone call like meet me in the parking lot with your son. Did you know what the mob was growing up before you ever before you got older? That was a scary experience. I was like, let me read that. You can't take him. Who am I calling? And I'm trying to call somebody in the middle of the night. It's like two in the morning on a Thursday when the feds come and him just saying I'll be back before the morning. What's a mob related wedding like? I want to be a mob wife. How does mob wives come around? The best way for you to explain is Goodfellas.

That was a real thing. Now, during mob wives, you and your ex, were you guys together? Because he wasn't a lot of the first couple seasons, like before the incident happened. People were like, oh, she must know what she must do not. I didn't know fucking anything. Under no way, shape, or form. I probably would have smothered. I'm dead ass.

I don't even, that's my father and my son's. That's my son. So my father belonged to a life that he knew. consequences. My son did not deserve any. Everyone knows Renee Graziano from Mob Lives, but today she's telling the story behind the cameras, the mobster father, the betrayals, and the truth about what really happened inside her family. René Graziano, welcome to Locked In. Thank you for having me. Yeah, this is a couple months in the making. We first met a couple months ago. Yes. You've connected us to some great guest, Jackie, Teresa, a bunch more, so we appreciate you a lot. And I appreciate you.

I love this space. It's amazing. locked in, but we're free. Yeah, I guess you weren't expecting this when you pulled up to a deli, huh? No, I definitely wasn't. But I don't even think, even if it would have been in like this gorgeous building, it's so warm here and it's so homey and it feels like a safe space when you walk in. And I know because the topic is so sensitive, not everybody can open up so easily. So I commend you on making it very homey.

Yeah, I've been to some podcast studios where it's just like you were expecting just that Like cold. Yeah. Like a room. That's a set and you get right to it. So this is like you get the whole tour, you walk around, you have a, you know, a soda or a drink or whatever the guest wants. And you have candy canes, slim jims, Coca-Cola. I was like totally.

I was in heaven when I woke. And I was like, yeah, slim gyms. So tell the audience about the product you just launched. It's holiday season. So, you know, show up you got it with you right now. Yes, I do. I'm really excited. So it's bad, which stands for.

for beautiful and dangerous. It's bad body butter. And it's really cool. I can open it up. And it says beautiful and dangerous. So there's six different cents. So in this box we have fig get about it because how could you not forget about it? Coco Nostra.

A little play on words. And then we have made melon. The other box has vanilla vendetta, Biscotti Boss, and Capo Chino. And it's bad body, butter. I think I like Capo Chino the best one. Do you? That's a good play on words right there. Coco Nostrop. That was good, but I feel more people know the name Capo. Yeah. Well, yeah, not everybody knows about the other one. But I love it. It's really, I've been,

I love body butter all, like, from so many years. And it's just something that I wanted to do that really represents me and skin and women and smelling good and you're beautiful and you're always dangerous as long as you smell good. Yeah. So when I was growing up, I always knew about mob wives, but I never watched it until you got my girlfriend hooked on it. And she went on like a, I think she watched like three seasons. I know. I was on the phone with you guys. Yeah. I was so embarrassed. You FaceTime does, you look nothing like how you used to look too. You look great. I look so much better now. Yeah. TV does me no justice, though. Even I could be skinny, I could be heavy. It just does me no justice. And I think back

then, so we're going back to 2000, end of 2010, so 15 years ago. A lot of things were going on in my life, so I definitely looked as bad as I felt. And I think now I look as good as I feel because I'm just in a better head space. Could I say life is, you know, a bowl of cherries? No, I still have some pits in there, which we're getting out. But, you know, life is life and life is lifeing. And I think the whole recovery journey, which is very personal, I think everybody's journey is very different.

Mine has had some little bumps, some speed bumps, and then some ditches. But the one thing that I always managed to do is just pull myself up. Sometimes it's with the help of friends. Shout out to Jackie Arena. I love it so much. Other times it's family. Shout out to the Graziano's nut cases. No.

I think they gave me half my problems. No. But in all honesty, like I said, recovery is your own personal journey. And I don't think anybody should be expecting anything more than a change every 24 hours. It's slow and steady. Yeah. When we put up those photos of you, I didn't realize how, you know, relevant you still are too.

Like with the... Did you really just say how you still are? I've been from the, like, quoting mob wife material. It's kind of like the Jersey Shore effect. Like, not you personally just like the mob wife show, you know. Everyone knew it. And then I guess the beef or all the drama that's happened on mob wives, you know. Starts to unfold on Instagram.

Absolutely. Trust me. 15 years later, it's crazy, you know. Absolutely. Well, I think the whole subject, the whole word, mob, everybody's interested in it. You want to know the insides and the out. And we were the first show, actually the only show, to ever do it on the level that we did. And although we didn't tell anybody's secrets because there is no secret telling, not out of me anyway, I think everybody was just so infat, they're infatuation.

And I don't mean to knock anyone when I say infatuated by it because I'm very interested in it. Like somebody's name will come up that I don't know. And I'm like, oh, who's that? Who's their friends? So I think mob wives was just what everybody needed, you know. And the cast was phenomenal, although none of us talked to each other. You mean still to this day? Yeah.

Like, I mean, a couple of girls talk. Like, I'll send my text to who I still speak to. And then there's people that don't and would never and will never, not even for any amount of money. And that's real mob wives. shit. Yeah, it was surprising that the players they did get to do it, knowing what families they did come from. Well, it's my sister's TV show.

Shout out to Jennifer Graziano. She created it, EP'd, everything is her. So Karen and Jirita are her friends all of her life. So it was kind of right in front of her face. And then Carla came by way of me. And I know Carla since I'm like 16. So the cast was always right under her nose. It was just a matter of getting everyone together.

And although families, the most recognizable two names on the show would have been my last name or Karen. So, you know, everything else fit in. Drita's personality was huge, funny. Her, she's not directly, you know, born from. Carla is. But I think for me and Karen, it was just so much more personal. Whenever someone says the name of Drita, I always think of Sopranos, because isn't the actress that played? That's Dreia.

Oh, Dreya. Either way, it reminds me. Right. Do you know I never, I watched one episode. You told me. Yep. It was so personal to me, so I couldn't really get into it. I mean, I know all the characters. I know the real people behind the characters.

So I think for me, when you're watching it and then you know the person that they're really attached. Although, you know, I'm sure it was loosely based on people. it just gets so personal. It's like in your living room. Yeah. Like I could look over and look at my father. I don't got to watch the TV. I'm good. You know what I mean? I think for me that's where my headspace was at that time. So I didn't watch it. Although I'm going to, I'm almost done with catching up on every single housewife show. Because I'm like a reality TV person, obviously. But I really like reality TV because I watch it. I'm like, I wonder if I'm, I wonder if I'm, that's real because on mob wives, I know everything was real. Direction. You know, you walk into scenes.

It's like, oh, today you're going to talk about this. Like the episode where everybody comes to my house and lets me know that my ex-husband's on the front page is a rat stool pigeon. I was waiting to get that out. It was so hard for me because I had like three girls come to my house that day, all different scenes and to keep going over and over and over. It kept hitting me hard. And on the way here,

my girlfriend Miguel that was with me, she said, you didn't even have time to digest your show because it was in real time. So I think a lot of the mob wife stuff is probably just coming out. Like I'm, it's part of my healing journey. Where'd you grow up? I'm born in Brooklyn, raised in Staten Island. I lived, we were middle class, and then, you know, upper middle class. I was 16 when we moved into the big.

house and stuff. But I was always like that kid on the block that would invite everybody over. The Candyman truck. Do you guys have a candy man truck? Because she's got a lot of woods up here. We just had ice cream trucks. I don't know what a candy man truck. Okay. So his name was Sonny Esposito. He had like, so it was like an ice cream truck but only sold candy. So my father would come outside. I'd be like, Dad, the Candyman's here. And all the kids would run to the corner. And my father would like buy everything on the truck and just give it out to all the kids. So I have, like, great childhood memories with the candy man and all the kids on the block. It was just a – I had a pleasant childhood.

Would you say the candy man was your favorite memory from childhood or was there something else? No. My favorite memory from childhood was every single Christmas. My father would take – I have two sisters. Lana – Lana is eight and a half years older and Jennifer's a few years younger. So she was too old to go. with us at that time. She was like 16-ish. He would take us to Rockefeller Center in the limo. We'd see the Rockettes. We'd go to my cousin's restaurant, Supreme Macaroni Company, or Casabella, which is still

there on Mulberry Street. And it was the great ice skating, everything. And it was without fail. We did it every single year. So it was, we'd go backstage with the Rock Cats. I wanted to be a rock cat when I was young. It's probably my, my greatest. wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in the crowd, but too often, life gets busy, or the price holds you back. Priceline is here to help you make it happen.

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giving one person a $1.6 million dream package. The biggest prize in Yamava's history. Club Serrano members can earn daily instant prizes and secure a spot in the finale May 29th. Don't pass go and own it all. Only at Yamava, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win? Details at yamava.com must be 21-20. Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. memories with my dad. How old were you when you realized you don't have a normal life? Your life was very different from other kids. Well, I knew something was off, but I didn't know what. So like we would go on, you know, several vacations a year where families weren't going on. They'd go on one vacation. So I think I was probably, that's actually a really good one,

because now that it's playing back in my head, I wonder if I thought I was normal. You know, I wonder, I only stayed with a few kids. There was maybe like six or seven on the block. My father kind of limited what I did. But when I was 16, I had my first experience, like when someone said, oh, your father's like, oh, her father's a captain. I was like, my father doesn't drive a boat. And I had to go home and ask questions, and you're not allowed to ask questions. You know what I mean?

It's just like you sit there. They say what they say. You have to believe everything. So I think it was probably about maybe 13-ish, 13, where I started to realize that I was, oh, actually, it was about 13 or 14 because I had my first boyfriend. And unfortunately, he was abusive. And I remember my father making that phone call, like, meet me in the parking lot with your son. Wait, I got to get a tissue. And I knew I was different.

I definitely knew I was different. Like then. Did he actually meet him? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he suffered a consequence of what he did to me. Yeah. So, I mean, he's still alive.

So they didn't kill him or anything like that. But he put his hands on me and it's got his hands put on him. So that's how I knew like my father was who he said he was. He never said it. I didn't have my father never discussed stuff like that now. But I could tell. You know what I mean? From the pinky ring finally made sense.

The meeting, not meeting, but like, you know, the cars coming to pick them up and stuff. It all started to like click in my, it all got locked in. In my head, it was like, oh, okay. Oh, all right. I can get away with this. Or I can't get away with that. You know, like I was allowed to travel over one bridge on a Wednesday night to Pastel's where all the wise guys hung out.

And they would, I'd walk right up to the front. They would like Anthony's daughter, Anthony's daughter, Anthony's daughter. And I loved being Anthony's daughter. I was lost until I think my dad passed away as Anthony's daughter. Like I was Anthony's, forget, I didn't even have a name. I was Anthony's daughter. What were your sisters saying about your lifestyle? Did you guys have communication about it?

So we're all, I mean, all came from the same household. My sister married someone who was involved. My younger sister went in the complete opposite direction, NYU, 4.0, you know, valedictorian. and we never really discussed anything, like literally anything. It's like when people learn about the birds and the bees, I learned about captains and soldiers. Like it was like so opposite of everybody else's lifestyle, but it was something you just didn't discuss. You knew it, but you didn't say anything. It's like, you know what daddy does?

No, he has a trucking company. Okay. Like, we didn't even talk about it. It was normal. What about your mom? What does she say to you as a kid growing up? My mother, my mother's still alive. God bless her. She cooked, she cleaned. She, like, she didn't say nothing. Nothing. She went bowling on a Monday to the movies with her friends. It was never a conversation. So it was like, what is the, what am I trying to say? Like, you know, saying it without being said, like, it was just not discussed. And my mother is like a beautiful woman, gorgeous woman. And, and, she was the perfect mob wife.

She is the epitome of mob wife. Like gorgeous, smart, doesn't say word. And my mom is also very naive, which is complete opposite of my father. And when I'm realizing, like, they're very manipulative on one side. So to look at my mother and I'll say things to her now about my father. I'm like, do you know who you were married to? And she was like, well, when I met daddy, he was pushing a hand truck in the garment industry. and he had three jobs to support his family.

You know, Renee, if he would have went in this direction, he really could have been a success. I go, what are you talking about? My father is a tremendous success. So we think completely opposite. My mother's a very soft, normal. Doesn't sound anything like me. She's just a soft, wonderful woman.

And the three of us, the three daughters, Jennifer's a little softer, but me and Lana are much harder. Like, we got more of my dad's personality. Every year I tell myself I'm going to find the perfect gift, and every year I end up wandering around a store, holding something random thinking, yeah, this will do. But now I've officially retired from bad gift giving because Aura Frames exists. ORA Frames makes you look thoughtful even when you're winging it. Seriously, it's the easiest cheat code for the holiday gifting.

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this deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast. So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Did you know what the mob was growing up before you ever, before you got older? No, not at all. Not even a clue. Like, again, the kids on my block, all working class families.

We were the only, he was the only man like that in the whole like, well now looking back I know a couple other kids fathers were but my father was like the only one in the neighborhood that was like mopped up so I think for me they try to give us

as much of a normal childhood as you possibly can give someone until the feds came and took them when I was like 13 I think that was my first experience with could I curse? Yeah

what the fuck is going on like I was I was devastated when they took my father because they came in the house like they came through the doors so they arrested him in our and I'm having a visual sorry in our kitchen I can remember the garbage

back in the day my father was like a bookmaker when he was up and coming hence one of the reasons why Pete Rose did not get inducted into the Hall of Fame true story but I remember them wanting to tip my mother who's closing up the garbage This is a memory that stays.

And I remember one of the agents going, we'll take that outside of my father going, don't touch the garbage. And I couldn't understand why in the world you didn't want him to take your garbage out. And then realizing back, it's like, oh, you probably ripped something up and put it in the garbage before they came.

Hence, why you don't write anything down. You know, but that was a scary experience. I was like, let me read that. You can't take him. Who am I calling? And I'm trying to call somebody in the middle, of the night. It's like two in the morning on a Thursday when the feds come. And him just saying, I'll be back before the morning. I'll be back before the morning. I'm like, it was actually, it was

heart-wrenching, you know, because although my father probably wasn't home every night of the week, I have a different recollection than my sisters do. I always remember my father being around. My sisters don't. They're like, you live in a bubble. Daddy was never home. What are you talking about? And I think for me, because he's like my, he was like my hero on earth, that I kind of painted this picture of him always being home. He was out a lot, playing cards a lot. I can remember, like, the smell of his cologne, like, leaving a room and the smell of cigarettes entering the room, you know.

It's like a couple days later. Pocket stuffed with money, you know. Here's 100. Here's 100. Like, I have good childhood. memories. Most people would say you're very warped, but I wouldn't trade it. Was that the first time he ever got arrested in your life? The first time I witnessed it, yes, yes. No. My understanding, and I learned a lot about my dad

when he passed, like the first time he got arrested, he was like nine or ten years old. It was for stealing corn flakes to feed his sisters. My father was very poor. And his mom lived in California. His parents were divorced. His mom lived in California. My father lived with his mom and his three sisters. And they experienced tremendous hardship. But I think that's what made my father the way he definitely was. His sisters unfortunately experienced something from the mother's boyfriend. And when my father was about 10, 11, maybe 11 or 12,

they had to ship him back to New York because, oh God, I didn't say that out loud. ha he had to leave that environment it was very unhealthy for my dad but i think that's what made him who he was like now i understand why he would always say this is like taking a total left but my mind is moving like always make sure you have long sleeves on and you wear pants like i couldn't understand that as a kid like why do i always got to be covered up why can i wear a bikini but my father was very regimented and he's got nana and patricia and celia aunt mary and jeline and Valley and Adrian, yeah, seven sisters. So he was very protective.

But I look back and I'm like, oh, I get it why Daddy was the way he was. I get, whatever happened to him and his child had made him the man that he is. And that's hard to look back at because I don't think that anybody wants to look back at their parents and see hardship, especially when my life was super easy. But I have tremendous respect for my father. Did he ever a voice wanting no boys and not ending up with boys? No, never. He probably told my mother that a lot. But we were girls that acted like boys.

So he just, he got us. But he always would say to me, thank God you're not a boy. That either have to kill you or I'd have to like he, because I have a mouth on me, obviously. But he was, I think he was grateful that he at the end of his life before he passed. I think he was more grateful that he had daughters than sons because watching my father, you know, doing 15 years. First bit it was like two and a half, 11, and then another couple years at the end. I'm probably great.

He's probably, I'm sorry, he was probably grateful that he had daughters that were able to stay with my mother when he did all the time that he did. So that arrest you were just describing, does he end up coming home the next day? Uh, I'm pretty, yeah. So when I was 13, that was the first arrest. But my father didn't go to jail until I was 20, 21. So I had my father, like all of my child, where a lot of kids had their fathers went away when they were very young. So my father didn't do any time until he was, until I was 21. And then he did two and a half years, uh, in Bradford, Pennsylvania, Loretto. prison. Now when you were in high school, what were your aspirations? What did you want for your life? I wanted to be a mob wife. That was actually a term back then? No, it wasn't. I wanted to be, I wanted to be a wife. I wanted to do what my mother did. I mean, then I wanted to be a rockhead. I wanted to be a model. I wanted to be a singer. But ultimately, I wanted to be a wife and a mother. Like, that's truly what I, what's crazy is, my mother will tell you, I was dancing like on the

coffee tables when I was really young and performing. And she always said, you're going to be on TV one day. So I think we spoke that into fruition because that's what really happened. But I wanted to be a wife and a mother. Hence, I got engaged very young. I had my son at 23. I just married the wrong individual rat fucking bastard. How old are you when you got engaged?

Sorry, that slipped. Rat. How old was I? I was turning 21. And I remember it. he had asked my father, we were only dating for like a month of 19 days

and my father did not want me with him by no means necessary. He was like, he wasn't from the same culture. He was mixed. He was Puerto Rican and Italian. So my father was like, you got to marry Italian, Italian, Italian. And I kind of went against the grain,

which looking back and my father's not racist, nothing like that, but you stay in your culture. You keep your culture alive. But looking back, my father was so right. My parents was so right, I should have never, ever married this person. No, this is Junior. No, his name is Hector.

Hector. Ratt. What they call him Jr.? Well, yeah, so there's a story behind that. So when he was coming to me at my father, my father's like, well, what's his name? I'm like, asking him when he gets here because I knew I couldn't say his name. Because I knew my father would be like, what are you doing? He's not Italian.

You know, so he met my dad and my father's like, what's your name again? And he was like, Hector. My father was, no, not around here. It's junior. And that was it. Yeah. What did he do for work at the time, like when you guys met? Oh.

Junior. Hector. Hector. Yeah, Hector. What did he do? Took up a lot of space. I don't have really anything nice to say about him. That's okay.

But it's a part of your story. At, yeah, the worst part of my fucking story, okay? The worst part of my story. Like, I'd rather die on the operating table and come back to life than ever. I'd rather go through Mercer than to ever be with that filthy bastard. And I'm very passionate when I say it because he took, he broke my family. He didn't break us.

We bent, but we didn't break. And I find it despicable to be the type of. type of person he is, to be a rat, to be the whole informant, listen, we know how I feel about rats. You know, rat is a rat as a rat, but for him to come into a family wearing wires and like to read the transcripts and hear my mother's, you know, see where it's, I don't remember if it said Ms. Graziano or whatever it said, but you hear us say, you know, junior, what do you want for breakfast and to hear that and to know you're taping my mother, that's disgusting. Like you're the, they're all the same, but you're the worst kind in the world.

You're lower than any other name that's out there. To me, he's the worst because he intentionally did that. Some people like they want to light a sentence, they'll tell once they get in. He intentionally walked into places with intentionally. So for me, it's so personal. So when you guys met, he wasn't a mob affiliated. No, he just came up from jail. Okay.

Yeah, he had gone to jail, I think, for gun running, whatever. I don't know the legal term for running guns. Trafficking. Trafficking. Guns, though, just guns. Not that just guns. It's bad. It's all bad.

Trafficking is all bad. But that's what he went to jail for. He was a kid. Like, not a kid. Like, maybe. 19, 20 years old. My stomach is ground because it's a one rap ass, dad is saying, right? So I met him through friends.

We dated. We got engaged. My father and mother did not want me to marry him. I remember the day of my wedding going, dad, I don't want to marry this guy. My father, like, get down the fucking aisle. You have 400 people coming. I had 497. He's like, oh, my friend, you get divorced tomorrow.

Get down the fucking aisle. I remember that. I was like, don't make me do it. I was crying on the way down the aisle, not out of joy, out of complete terror and fear because I knew that day he was no good. Like he was cheating, my father on strip club, he was sleeping with the stripper. And I knew that day that it didn't feel right anymore. Mind you, I got married in a church called Our Lady of Pity.

His last name is Pagan. Like, no matter how many times I tell that story, everybody is like, really? Like, what are the odds? I mean, obviously, it's pronounced pagan because it's, you know, proper way to say it, but he's pagan to me. So why did your dad finally accept him then? Because wouldn't he would just cancel the wedding if you admitted that? It seemed like he was only doing it for you.

Well, my father, anything I asked for I got, good and bad, it seems. But ultimately what happened after he had met my ex-examination. husband, it's terrible, Joe Messina, who later became the Panano boss who became cooperated. He said, oh, he's a good kid, he's a good kid, you know, I guess whatever, he did his time, whatever. So my father just allowed it. And I guess him and my father had gotten very close, which is another reason why the betrayal is so severe to me because he had no family.

Like he had family, but he didn't. His mom passed. His father passed like a few years after he came home. He didn't have much family. And if that's what you want to call family. So my family took him in. So my sister's what his sister is. My mother and father was his mother and father.

So it's so, I can't even tell you the level of betrayal. Like, I don't even understand it. how a person could do that to another, like how he could have done that to my dad. I have absolutely no idea. What's a mob-related wedding like? That must have been interesting. Best fucking weddings ever.

So it was at a friend, a friend of his own the whole, I had 497 people, and the room was round, so like everybody could see each other. It's like the Oscars. And the Emmys for gangsters. That's exactly what a mob wedding is.

The feds are, of course, so it's really, oh, wow. So it's really like what you see, like the red carpet. The government takes the best fucking pictures in the whole entire world. I swear to God, my sister, Lana's from her wedding. I saw those. So I can't find mine online, but I know they were there. A couple of people got violated for coming to my wedding. So, and it was on New Yutrikt Avenue underneath like the L.

I'm sorry, when I have a visual, I got like, so they were like where you were and they're just snapping away. And it's, it's nothing but fabulous the weddings. They're fabulous. They're fabulous. The entertainment's fabulous. The people, the gowns. It's really the Oscars for gangstance. That's awesome.

I know. I don't think anybody's ever said it that way. But it really, you know, everybody has a good time. And my father, we would play Mac the Knife and he would get out. And he would Lindy with my mother. And it was, it was beautiful. My wedding was really beautiful. I just married the devil.

Did you end up going to college at all? Or you just trying to be funny? No, I'm serious. You skipped college and you could have went to college. No, he couldn't get in. I didn't have like, I. Oh, you tried to get in? No, no.

I just wanted to be a wife and a mother. Okay. So you didn't try. No, I didn't try. Actually, true story. And this is kind of sad, but. You're the first person I'm telling this too. I fell typing with a 60.

So I didn't get my high school diploma. And then my father went up to the school and the typing teacher. He was like, just changed the grade and she wouldn't. So he threw me this amazing graduation party. Like hundreds of people at my graduation party. I had two. One in the daytime and then one at night for my friends. And I remember, I'm going, let me have your diploma.

I'm going to put it up on the wall. And I was like, yeah, it's getting laminated. It's getting laminated. And then I was like, mom, what am I going to do? So I had to go to a school called Richmond Town Preparatorial, had to write an English paper. I paid $350. And that's how I got my high school diploma.

Oh, so you were barely even graduate high school. Yeah. Oh, wow. I wasn't, I'm not scholastically. You're straight smart, not book smart. Right, right. Like, I don't even, it's much better. to be like me in my world and not worry so much. I mean, everybody should go to school and get a

diploma, at least your high school diploma. Not everybody has to go to college. But I think, yeah, I'm the most colorful crayon. I'm not the brightest lightbow, but I am the most colorful crayon in the box. This episode is brought to you by prize picks. It is the holiday season, the best time of the year for sports, bowl games, basketball matchups, playoff pushes. It's all happening at once. And while you and I are out here making decisions every, day, what gifts to buy, what to eat, which game to watch. There is one place where it feels good to be right. Prize picks. I've used the app before and honestly, it made watching sports way more fun. The first time I tried it, I was shocked how simple it was. Like no overthinking, no 20-page

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today and use code Ian Bick to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code Ian Bick to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, it's good to be right. Now, when you get married as Hector working for your dad. So my father had set him up with like a plush job and that man couldn't even show up for a plush. job. He ruined everything. So he started working in the strip club doing more like the bouncing stuff. Yeah, he was very close to my father. Um, you know, whether it was driving him or whatever part he played from my father, which obviously it couldn't have been anything but brains because he only had like, you know, he was strong. Um, so I'm assuming he was muscle. However, the only muscles in his arm that worked were the ones on his arm. Yeah. I don't like him. But he was, I never really asked questions. And that's the gods, honest truth. Like, I never really, I never had to ask questions.

You just, like, assume, after you see a couple of movies or a TV show, you just kind of, you can figure it out. You know what I mean? But the late night's not coming home, the drinking, the drugging on his behalf. I mean, it all started to add up and just you start to figure out. they're involved in the wrong, let alone all the arrests. You know what I mean? It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a high school diploma to figure out you're not

walking a straight line. So what would he do when your dad went to prison? They all went to jail. At the same time? Everybody went to jail. Yeah. So my brother-in-law, my ex, my father, like everybody all at once, like on a Thursday. No, that was when you were 23.

I was 21. when they all went to jail. Because my father went to jail and I had to wait for him to get home to get married. So he came home like maybe a month before I got married in 93. So yeah, they all like it's,

oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. The first time he went to jail, not everybody went to jail. It was the second time. So the first time he went to jail is when there was no supervision in my relationship, I should say, and my ex-husband.

was very abusive, extremely abusive. But I think that notion of being a rat was so implemented into my regimen or like in my brain that I didn't tell. And that's like the biggest mistake I think I've made in my life. But in the same breath, I feel like maybe if I would have told the, if something bad would have happened, it would have been on my conscience. I would have. went to, I believe in God tremendously. So I think it, it would have felt like I'm going to hell. And I didn't want to ever risk my father going to jail. So my father was much more important that I was to myself, which is not good for you, girls. They have to believe in themselves much more. So, yeah, wait, I got lost in the question. In the question, you're just explaining prison that he went to

prison first. All right. So we went to jail for the first time when I was just turned 21, came home a month before I got married when I was 23. And the second time he went to jail, everybody went to jail, like the brother-in-law is the ex-husband. And it was on, and it's funny, have the Wolf of Wall Street. I sat down. I was like, thanks, Dad. Not the Wolf of Wall Street. However, he had gotten in trouble on the big stock thing back in the day where everybody went to jail. So, like the boiler room. That's more or less. That's how I know my dad. You know what I mean?

It's more about, and he took a plea. He did his time. He paid back all his fines. You know what I mean? So ultimately, he did pay the price for what he did wrong. But that's how I know my dad. I know my dad as, I know him as my dad, but I know him as a gangsta. Like he was a very well-respected man.

And he was really a good man. Believe it or not. I know a lot of people come on here and say, you know, I'll say he's a good man. They'll be like, oh, but he did this. Oh, he went, you know, all the, okay, nobody knows them unless you live in the house with them. So my father, as far as I'm concerned, is a great man. Like, he provided for his family. He paid the consequences of his actions.

So he real, and he never opened up his mouth. And I think for me, he taught me what his idea of integrity was. the normal American would say, that's not integrity. In his world, that was integrity. And it's pretty much where I learned things about a world that I would never fully touch. And today I could tell you, I really don't want to touch that world. Where I wanted to be, like, I would swing my fur coats and I would walk in and, you know, it'd be the head of the line and the champagne and the limousine where it's like the Billy Joel song.

Like, she had the Don Perry on and a hand and the spoon up. Like that was like big shot. Like that's my life. And it really, I lived it. But now that that part of my life is over, like that chapter, like I look forward to like what's next. Now that notion of not ratting, when is that instilled in you as a kid? I was probably maybe like seven-ish. And my older, okay, so my father I told you gambled.

and he played cards. And when he'd come home, we would take all this money. And we had a big paper michelie bank. And he would stuff all the money in that. My older sister, so if I was seven, seven in a, so let's see. She was like probably 17 minutes. Maybe I was a little older than that. Whatever.

I was still young. I wasn't even a teenager. Maybe eight. She would turn the piggy bank upside down. She would, okay. So my parents, let me. start over. Okay. Okay. So how I learned not to be a snitch was my older sister would rob the piggy bank after my father would come home from gambling. So what she would do is make me stand in the hallway. And I would play chicky. And for people that don't know, like I was watch. I was like, look out. She would turn it upside down. And she would take the salad tongs and a flashlight and pick out all the big bills. And I'd be like, nobody's coming. And she'd probably give me like a dollar, even if she gave me a cut.

Because I don't think she was giving cuts back then. So one day my father goes, come on, Renee, let's count the money. Puts me on the table. And I remember my dad taught me how to slide the money with my finger. He gets the mallet. He cracks it. And there's no big bills. It's like fives and tens, a few 20s and lots of change.

And he's like, Renee, what happened to the money? I go, a lot of it took it. Bam. He like, crack me. And he goes, don't you ever tell on anybody again? And I was like, but you asked me? And he goes, I don't give a fuck who asks you. And that's my memory of never telling.

And I think that was embedded in me so much. The consequence, first of all, he definitely did not smack me hard because my father never put his hands on me. But it was enough to sting for me to always remember. Like, I think like when something happens once, your mind is trained. And so for me, that no ratting, it was in everything that we said, don't rat. Hey, Lana's doing this down here. Who are you telling us? I was always, you know, like kids growing up, like you tell on your brothers and sisters.

And in our house, it was like, don't rat. It wasn't like, don't tell on it. Don't rat. So I think for me that stayed with me. And then as I got older, I saw it in the men. Like you heard whispers or people died or just everything like the best way if you explain is good fellas. That was a real thing.

So I think for me that stayed in my head and you would find, you know, like I said, friends' dads didn't come home or whatever. So for me, you knew keeping mouth shut. When your dad goes off to prison and your husband at the same time, What's like like, ex-husband, what's life like at that point? Like, what are you doing from a day-to-day basis? How do you support yourself financially? Well, we had money.

So I don't think I had to really do much. My father was able to financially take care of us, you know, from where he was. I had a, when everybody went away, I had a nervous breakdown, a legitimate nervous breakdown. I got shingles. My nervous system was completely out of whack. because I lost everything. It was horrific for a family to be like, because it wasn't just one person

and they weren't all in the same place so we had somebody in Massachusetts, we had somebody in Pennsylvania, West Virginia. So the family was constantly on the road visiting. So I think for me, I took it a lot harder. God bless my mother, because I'll tell you some. I don't know how she kept it together. Like, I legitimately lost my shit.

not so much from my ex-husband but my dad not over him at all to be quite honest looking back because we were already separating um i was uh like the second bid i was probably uh sorry i'm going through the number of chikas i was probably like almost 30 or 30. Yeah, eight. Oh, wait. Oh, I was younger than that. Because AJ was like five when his father went to jail. So his father went first, my father, and then my brother and law.

But his father went like a few. They were all in the same case, but he just went in a little bit earlier. It was hard. You have kids. You're on the road. There are only women in my family. So there were no men. There's no boys.

So I think looking back and like in this exact moment, I can actually feel like the sheer terror that comes over you. Like you're losing everything and the most important men of your life, not my ex-husband, but my brother-in-law, like my father's friends, all the people that looked out for us, gone. Like all in one day. It's the worst feeling in the world. And I think statistics have got. gotten worse over the years. Like there's like one person in a family that goes, everybody goes, like somebody in your family goes to jail. It's not even like not heard of anymore. It's like, oh, you have somebody. It's like when you see everybody in the visiting room, hey, you know,

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See associate or Lowe's.com for details. Family, it's the strangest feeling. Strangest. How old is your son when you the conversation with him about his dad and also his grandfather. So, AJ, I can't tell you how old he was because I don't remember how old he was. But I can tell you when the feds came and took my father, he was sleeping on the couch. I had slept out that night. I was just really starting to date all over again. And my father and mother were watching AJ. And he was always sleep on the couch right by the door like he always.

and AJ was on the couch with them and the feds came and took him and AJ was probably God he was so young maybe like six or seven like they wiped us out so my son was on prison visits like his whole

like most kids are supposed to be playing sports and my son and I are like on the road like Graziano it's you're up oh I can't remember the numbers anymore oh four eight seven like and it just it's heart wrenching for children. Like, it's so sad. And to know that, like, my kid experienced that

and how different he is with his son. So I didn't have to have the conversation with him. The newspaper pretty much told him, like, his end of the story or the kids in the neighborhood knew. We don't even really kind of talk, like, we don't talk about his father at all, like, because that's a really sore subject. But I can tell you he was 16 when everything went down.

and I took him out of school. I tried to shelter him as much as I. I think he learned more at that age, like the components to what the mob life was really like because it was just ripped from him. His younger years, he was too young to understand it, but I never, like if he asked where we were, like he knew he was going on a visit.

You know what I mean? Like I didn't sit there and be like, so your grandfather did A, B, and C, like I didn't I didn't bed I never bad talk to my dad his father yeah but I think when his father cooperated it was so in his face I had to explain things to him because it was on television it was in the newspaper he's on TV it's air so it was in real time so what you saw on mob wives was actually happening that day like when they did the the mob wives episode where they had the 127 people arrested.

I saw it like you would be like. Like we turn on the TV and it's like, oh my God, there's so and so, there's so and so. So I think AJ was probably, I would say, before teenage when he really knew he was completely different. Do you think you and your son had a special bond because you visited your dad in prison and then you then took your son to visit his dad in prison? Like was there a certain understanding there or connection? So when his father went to jail, I wasn't with him anymore. So I did take AJ on a few visits, but then the father had his girlfriend and I knew who she was so she would take my son. But do I think there was a special bond?

Yeah, I think they're definite. I don't know how special. But I think there's an understanding between my son and I that we both experienced having our fathers behind the law. wall, the, you know, bars. I think, oh my God, Ian, you're making me have, like, all of these emotions. I'm going to need therapy before friggin' Monday.

I'm doing my job then. Yeah, like, I'm having, so I have a lot of trauma so my memory isn't, like, as great as it used to be. So I'm having, like, flashes and I'm, like, my therapist for EMDR would love this. If she could have this, if we can have this

conversation in front of Hyde be, like, I don't know if you know what EMDR is like it's this type of therapy you tap or you squeeze these things and get your memory to go back to find out what the problem is I think I had a breakthrough doc on locked in um so no I think yeah there is a special thing between my I'm going to call him as soon as I get in the car FYI shout out to AJ I love you so much AJ is my rock but I think there is definitely a bond between him because we both know the feeling and I think the anger is is there too for the both of us because we're both very frustrated that we didn't have the picture perfect life but we don't say it like I do I'll cry about it my son doesn't say

nothing like he's very stunk like nothing how does mob wives come around so my sister created it um so she originally had put it together for like a scripted series but then realized what am I scripting? I have it right in my face. I was like, can I be on it? Can I be on it? And she was like, no. And she kept telling me no. I swear. Bitch. And I remember her casting everyone. I remember me getting Carla for her. And then she's like, I can't have you on it? I was like, can I do wardrobe? Can I do makeup? She was like, no. She kept saying no. And then it was like two days before the show. And she was like, all right, you're in it. And it's what we are.

So she put it in front. She took a big risk, a really big risk, by putting it in front of the cameras. But I think it was the most brilliant thing she did. Not that she'll ever do, but out of everything, aside from like going to college and like being like extremely intelligent and having us on. I think mom wives is like right there in the forefront because nobody did it. How old are you when it came about? 40. You were 40.

I was 40. And I'm very grateful it came out when it did because it almost feels like, well, God really has some plan up there. I'm telling you. He knows it before we know anything. And I think that's the most remarkable thing is looking back. God couldn't have picked a better time in my, I'm sure he didn't want all those things to happen to me. But there couldn't have been a better time. for mob wives to happen because look at what happened on television.

You couldn't make that up. You couldn't write that. You couldn't script that for all the money in the world. They write scripts about shit like that. So I think, wait, I need a sip of Coca-Cola, which you can get here in locked in. I want a Coca-Cola. I just want cases of Coca-Cola. Coca-Cola is not even paying us.

They're getting some free promo right now. Oh my God. How about beef jerky? They're not paying us either. Who the fuck is in charge of Coca-Cola and beef jerky? No, seriously. Sorry. Kleenex.

They're not sponsoring us either, Renee. I'm just joking. I'm looking at everything around me and going, well, what is? Plug in some blue chew. Bluechew? Yeah, have you heard of Bluetooth? What is it? It's like the, uh, the, um,

erection stuff like the uh the help you in bed really really yeah joey dyes does some great blue chew my ex-husband needs blue chew that was great uh-huh um i will keep blue chew a chew for anyone who's involved in the no um that's amazing really blue chew i have to now go back and go look at joey Diaz's. Oh, they're so funny. Oh my God. It's called Blue Chew? Yeah, check out Bluchu. Check out Blue Chew. Where was your dad when it started filming and what was his reaction? Oh, God. How did he feel about mob wives?

My father didn't talk to me and my sister for two years. So he was in jail. My father was already. He was in jail from like 2000. My father came home in 2011. So my father can't, so he did nine and a half or ten. So he, everybody, what, oh, that was the third bid. Sorry, let me go back. So he was incarcerated, what do we call it, in jail, locked up, locked in. He was locked in when mob wives came out.

So he didn't talk to us. And, oh, he was so mad. Oh, my God. What was his biggest issue with it? Was it because there was, you know, kids like Sammy the Bull's daughter a part of it and there was rats involved? Or was it more because you guys used any mob? Oh, it had nothing. Well, he was mad at that, I'm sure.

But it's because he really lived by a secrecy code. Like he really represented that world way that you're supposed to represent it. So he was very angry that here we are. on TV like mob wives look at me like we were it was but we weren't saying anything so the word just the word in general like you're putting a stamp on something although this is what confuses me and these men have been arrested all of their lives and they have put the word mafia or a mob or mob this or mob that in the paper on it every practically every other day back then and it was like how could you do that?

And I was like, the government calls you that. Not that I'm agreeing with the government by any means. But the amount of people that were like, oh, looking at us, like we did something wrong. I was like, we wouldn't even be like this. Like it's in our face. We're not saying anything or doing anything wrong,

but it was just the word. I think it was the word and just, everything you're not supposed to do It's kind of like we did it, but we didn't do anything. Does that make sense? Well, I guess because if you're saying you're a mob wife, even if you don't say it and it's on it, you're implying that, okay, your ex-husband is in the mob and he works with your dad. Well, my ex-husband's not because my dad was. We're going to stick to the facts here. My father wasn't that he don't count. But they called you a mob wife. Right, but I'm born into it. So I'm married to it, regardless, husband or not. And he couldn't be. He's not even a town. am, but I could, I could, I'm married to something. Um, whether I like it or not, that's who I am. So I think the problem was putting, you put, yes, you, you, you, you, you said it. You said it. So were you allowed to be friends with, say, Karen by, by code or no? Before her father did what he did. Well, because he did do that years before.

So I wasn't friends with Karen growing up. That was my sister's friend. Okay. We all knew each other, obviously, but they're younger than I am. So my group of friends, my group of friends are a lot of the people who's suffered the consequences from some of those people's actions. And Karen and Sammy the Bull's daughter for the audience to put in perspective. So I think for me, I wasn't friends with anybody back then. Like my, I really had a very small group of girlfriends. My best friend was Carla. We stayed together all the time.

that was really it, like some high school girlfriends. But I stayed with children that were like me. I didn't really know many as I got older. When I was younger, I was the only one. But as I got older, I stayed with just a group of kids that we were all the same. It was something you didn't have to say anything. We all understood it. So I think we, I got lost, ADD.

If you were allowed to be friends with Karen. Or it didn't matter because it was a separate. family. Oh, you mean Oh, no, there were a lot, they were kids from different um fashion, what are the,

what, what, what, families, right? Or factions? Fractions. Fractions. Fractions. Factions. No, no R. Faction. No, they're more like fractions. Um, factions. Yes, families. This is going to go families.

Okay. So, yeah, I had friends in different organizations. Yeah, absolutely. Um, but I was like the only girl in in like a group of guys like I stayed with um no names the people that I stayed with were all different people yes well because I remember listening to Karen talking about it on mob wives how she lost really a lot of her friends you know when he did what he did and ratted on everyone and her life changed listen I I can can say yeah I can say yeah I can say yeah Life back then was very, very different.

And you would definitely be ostracized. I mean, major. I didn't know Karen. I knew her, obviously, but that was not a friend of mine. So I know what the people said in the background. My son went through it, you know. Luckily for my son, he had, like, real solid friends. And AJ is the only one that comes from, like, where I do.

his friends are very normal like hardworking families very they're wonderful but yeah carron went through some shit absolutely and um i yeah just today it's really hard for me to talk about because of things my son experience but i think everybody should be very careful of who they stay around how did your mom react to mob wives my whole entire like so my mother and my oldest sister my father Everyone in my family was like, what are you doing? They were, they were, my mother was mortified, especially because of some of my condition. I was half-stoned on TV. I was a hot mess, fighting with everybody.

I never, I never had physical altercations. I had one on television. So, like, it was like my mother was mortified because my mother is very quiet and please and thank you. And we don't even think she smoked or drank. We call it like the Virgin Mary, part two, the sequel. Like my mother is nothing. She's a mob wife, but she's very nothing like a complete opposite of me. She was devastated, I think, when she saw mob wives.

My father never watched it, ever. He, like, TVs would be off completely. And he was in jail for like when it first came out. So I know, I know this story to be true because a friend of mine was locked up with him. They were locked in with him. So I grew up being Anthony's daughter and tables turned and they'd be like, that's Renee's father. And I remember being on a visit and he was like, I'm going to fucking kill you. I was like, what did I do?

He's like, people who call me Renee's father. So I think he knew how big the show was by the reaction of people. Because they watched some correctional facilities I think had. not 100%. I know jail at it because I know a lot of guys from jail would be like, oh, I watch you on TV. But I don't know how many. I know that they banned it after a while in the correctional facilities. But I think my parents were like devastated. My father never watched it. Couldn't say it in the house. Couldn't discuss it. Like it was like never happened. How did you two make peace over it?

So I had plastic surgery gone terribly wrong. And if anybody, is a smart-ass remark for that. Just remember I can find you. Shut your location off. No joking. So I had flatlined, got merced through my whole entire body. I was in the hospital for three months. And I remember my father not speaking to me.

And I was read my last rights twice. And my mother explained to my father how serious it was and that like I was dying. I was vancomycin resistant. and I, like, I lost 6.3 pints of blood. I think we have, what, with 7 or 8, a woman? So I was on my way out, and my father had gotten on the phone. And he was like, never discussed that TV show. I love you.

And that was it. Like, he didn't even, like, it was, the first thing out of his mouth was, don't ever talk about that TV show. Like, I'm like, you know, the bells go. And that man was so serious about it. And then when he came home, he went to the bank, right? So he just comes home. It's like 2011 and he's getting like a bank account.

And a woman in the bank, actually her name is Elvier. I remember that. I remember like the, you know, just stuck in my head. And him coming home one day. He's like, make that out. Like it was like an autograph. My, like one of my pictures. Give me one of your pictures and sign it to the bank.

I swear to God. I was like, what? He's like, write that, write that name. And write your name. That's how he talked to us. It was, it was not like, he always said he loved us. When he would write letters, he would write, love TG. It was so funny.

When he first went to jail, you know, my father couldn't write and he couldn't read and stuff. And he learned when he was away. So I can watch the Pemmanship over the years turn into Love Daddy. And it was him writing. But yeah, he was a riot, my father. He was a riot. People would recognize me and he would get mad. He would be like, oh, like, not embarrassed, but he was just mad.

And then I think as he got older and as, you know, he was home for, came home in 13 and died in 19. So came home in 13. You mean got arrested in 13? No, he got arrested November 21st, 2011. Okay. Yeah. I think he came back the end of 13. I was like the last bit he got, my ex-husband was even such a bad rat. He couldn't even like, the objection was obviously to take my father off the street for as long as they possibly could. It was two years. And my father did way more than 10 months for people that like to say he only did 10 months. It was like 15 years complete. You know exactly what I'm talking about. he um sorry yeah we'll get to that part in the story as we go across the time yeah no i just kind

like got that feeling of like he's like so gone now during mob wives is that where your addiction issue started no you had it before or after yes um so i definitely know this about addiction you know some people say it's by choice it's definitely like inherent it's something in your body like your chemical makeup. Because my addiction didn't start with drugs. It was more like power and men. And I don't mean trampy. I mean like the need for attention to be recognized.

I'm a middle child, very awkward. I wasn't cute. I wasn't pretty. So I definitely know my addiction started in other ways. First time I did drugs, I was like 13. So my addiction was very early on. but it didn't manifest itself in the ways that it did until I was, so for me it was more like champagne and cocaine like growing up that way, you know, the era.

But I think, I don't think, I know, that once pills got involved, so my ex-husband was abusive. So he shattered my, my sacram in my back. So I've always had problems, pain. I was in a bad car accident. It was a lot of stuff. They had put me on like oxy-80s. So there's like exactly when it kicked in, you know, immediately. Cocaine was not a problem, but it was more of like a party drug.

But the pills, once that happened, I think I was like, it took me out immediately, immediately because I never took pills in my life like growing up. Like never party pills, none of that type of stuff. So I was probably 36, 36. And it, like, full-blown. Like, I know what it is to be a full-blown addict. So when I see things, like, I have compassion for addicts. And there is a way out if you're willing to get away, you know, take the way out.

But I think if for me it was full-blown, I would say 35, 36. Now, during mob wives, you and your ex, were you guys together? Because he wasn't a lot of the first couple seasons, like before the incident happened with the final arrest. Okay. So, like I was telling you earlier, so I had plastic surgery gone terrible. My ex-husband and I weren't together when I began mob wives. And then my surgery had gone terribly wrong. And here he is, he shows up at the hospital.

Mind you. And I say this because for the mental health people. People really need to work on their mental health. I was so convinced that this man loved me and came back because I literally died. Okay, I got to just gather my thoughts here. My ex-husband and I were not together when I was filming mob wives in the beginning. I had plastic surgery terribly wrong. He came to the hospital.

It was in August. And I have a thing with numbers. So rain, man, I do. I have a thing with numbers. I wish I could play roulette like that, though. I can't hit it no more. So I'm in the hospital. He comes back to me and he's like, oh my God, I love you so much.

I want to get back with you. And me, being in the state that I was, and I blame the Deloitte for everything. Okay? Because if you really think about it, I was not fucking there. I'm on like eight milligrams of Deloordid a day. day, like a shot in the hospital, just coming back to life because in June is when the surgery went wrong. So it's now August, I'm thinking, oh my God, he really loves me. It took me to die for this man to come back. And I had asked, we had gotten back together. Like, we didn't get back

together. He purposely infiltrated my life to get my father. So I was not with him prior to. to him come, that what you see in mob wives. I was not with that man anymore. He had a girlfriend. He had a whole life. He had a baby. He had a whole other world. Yeah, the rat world.

He was cooperating for a long time, according to what I've read in documents. So on camera was staged then that you guys were together? No. No, it wasn't stage. I was not with him prior to, like, mob wise happening. In other words, like, we weren't a couple. We broke up. It was over.

He came back when I was in the hospital wanting to get back with me. And I felt like, oh my God, this is my chance for a family. Like, I can make this work. And I remember telling my son, Daddy's going to come back. And he was like, he cursed at me. It was so bad. He was like, I don't fucking want to ever. He, like, literally cursed at me.

And I'm not going to say what he said, but he walked up the stairs and he was like, like, he knew. My son was like, you fucking taking him back? Like you're going to get everything you deserve. Not that I deserved it, but he's like, like how dumb could you fucking be? I remember that. It was on Guyon Avenue in the big house, I think my wife's in.

I was telling him on camera. And, oh, God. What a fool was I to even talk to him. Like to allow this person back. And he gave me a watch. And then we find out the watch has a wire in it when like the, it unfolds because he left me in debt. I go to Hock his watches thinking, you know, he's in jail.

I'll get some money. And they have wires in them. Like, this is how I find out that everything that I'm reading is real. Like, he was a rat stool pigeon, informant, fucking tattletail. Like, you had a wire in your wire. You were taping shit. Like, that... is so bizarre to me.

Like, first of all, how they make those devices so little. Like, but like, you're taping my voice. Wow, that's disgusting. Sorry, a moment. So he became a rat for what? What was the reason? What happened? Because he's a weak bitch.

That's why he became a rat. Did he get into a trouble? I mean, yeah, but I mean, the truth of the matter is, you told. Like, you're not the man you, you, you know. not even a man anymore to me. But yeah, according to what I've read, like, I don't know specific, so I want to just make sure I don't say anything I'm not supposed to. But he, I hate even saying.

He got caught on a murder. Like, he shot somebody. They died. And then they pulled him in. So I don't have all the particulars. I don't need all the particulars. He's a rat, period, and the conversation. He put my father in jail and other very good men.

So I never fully read through everything, but I do know that that's why he, that's why, that's not why he read it. He read it because he didn't want to fucking do time. It's simple. He's, he did it before my father. As far as I know, he cooperated. He was a CI prior. He had to take the stand on my father's case. And they wrote in the newspaper, whatever, because a man had passed away.

and that was his consequence and he couldn't fucking do his time. When did he give you the watch? Was it as soon as he came back into the picture after the surgery? I was in the hospital. And he gave you the watch. He gave it to me as a gift. I remember it clearly. I also remember the fight that we had while I was in the hospital and him throwing the watch.

So now when I look back at like everything, like I guess the first initiation to give me a fucking wire didn't work out for him because he threw it in the hospital. And I remember him leaving and I remember, you know, sorry. And I'm just like, he gave it to me while I was in the hospital. That was in August. I didn't come back home until September. So I was in the hospital, June, July, August, and I came back in September. And he moved into my house.

But yeah, he gave. How many discounts does USA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount. Safe driver discount? New vehicle discount. Storage discount. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply.

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now with a baby in tow. From the Jersey Shore to upstate New York and Italy, their getaways are sure to take unexpected turns where comedy ensues. Watch the four seasons May 28th, only on Netflix. I made that watch when I was in the hospital on my fucking deathbed. Piece of shit. Now, you don't discover the wires in there until after they all got indicted. It was after November 21st, 2011, because, yeah, like, I remember the day of the arrest, clear as day. Tell us about that day, what happens?

We had a fight on, again, me and the numbers. So he was in the house. So he moved back in sometime in September, the end of September. So we had a big, I thought he was cheating on me. Because he was constantly on this phone, secret, very secret squirrel. So my experience with him prior to that was he was a cheat. So it just measured up that he was doing the same thing. And never, not for one second.

Did it ever cross my mind that he was an informant? Never. Because he was a tough guy in the street. So I never thought that this guy would just be a rat. Never. We were sitting on the couch watching TV. I remember it. He went outside the glass door and he shut it.

And I just, it's just something in my head. It's like, you're a cheetah, you're a cheetah. I came back and we didn't talk from November 19th until I got to, my son came home, on November 21st, and he handed me a letter. And he's like, it's from daddy. Not too, he, I made him sleep in another room. 19th, 20, we weren't even speaking. And I remember getting that letter and reading it and not understanding anything in that letter.

Because prior to that, he was like, I got a bid. I'm going to do like seven years. I was like, okay, cool, I'll do it with you. Like, it was like that. Like, all right. Oh, have commissaire. Like, it was so normal to me. And so, excuse the term, so mob wife of me to just be like, all right, I'll do the time, whatever, we'll get through this.

But that night on the 19th of November that we had this big fight, something in me clicked. And for me not to talk, because I could talk a lot. I don't know what it was. I still don't really truly know what it was. It fully stopped me from talking. But on the 21st, what was the question? about what happened that day when they got arrested. Right, sorry.

So I read this letter, we're filming. My son comes home. He hands it to me. I'm reading it. And nothing is making sense. And I remember actually calling a couple of people and I called Karen. I was like, what the fuck does this mean? And she was like, it means he turned himself in, like that he's not getting, like he turned himself in.

I don't really understand turning yourself in because they always came and took us. So the idea of like, you know, walking in and turning itself and didn't kind of click with me. And I remember calling my father and on mob wives. You think it's my nephew on the phone, but it was actually my dad because he could never know I was filming. And I remember going, Dad, I can't find him. So there were multiple calls all during the day, multiple calls.

So what you don't see is the multiple, you don't see them. Well, you do see me like constantly calling. So I'm trying to like get into med. My sister Jennifer, when we found that, they all got arrested. She came in. She's like, shut the fucking cameras down. Shut it down. Shut it down.

We're not filming no more. And I was like, fuck this. We're filming because this is what a real mob wife is. And I wanted not expecting my ex-husband to be the rat. I want you to know. But I wanted everyone who was watching to experience. what a mob wife was. And a mob wife isn't fur coats and diamonds.

A mob wife is a woman who travels 12 hours, planes, trained in automobiles to go visit someone they love. And you completely understand what I'm talking about because your family had to go through it. But for me to have it on, it was on TV, I was calling home and I was like, Dad, I don't understand. I can't find him in the system because he was a felon from years ago,

so you have the same number. So I'm looking for things. I'm searching it. nothing's coming up, nothing's making sense. And the panic is starting to set in. It's like getting the deed to the house, getting the money together, this, that, and the third. And I remember calling him,

I can't find him, I can't fucking find him. I don't know what you. And I remember hearing my dad in the background. Well, my nephew was on the phone. At that time, I'm going, shut the fuck up. Don't fucking say a word. Get off the phone.

I just remember like this, don't talk to nobody. Shut the phone off. Like, because he wouldn't get on the phone. the phone because he didn't know about cameras or whatever. So I remember like, I don't understand. Dad, I can't find him. I can't find him. I can't find him. And he was like, shut the fuck. I remember him cursing so bad. And then me going, I hearing the doorbell and hearing my, my nephew, in the background going, Poppy, it's the police. And it was that specific second that I let out

that horrible scream on television. Ooh, and that face was so unattractive. That scream, I felt like everything, I felt my blood draining from my body, and I know what it feels like to have my blood draining. It was exactly the same feeling of dying. I was dying in that very fucking second because they were taking my father.

It had nothing to do with my ex-husband. I didn't know what was going on on the outside, who was getting arrested. It was, I just got my dad back after 10 years. nine and a half, ten years, whatever it was. Wait, if he got 11 and a half, he would do nine and a half, right? Yeah. Right?

Yeah. I've just got to think of it in my head. Maybe nine, depending on halfway house time and everything like that, too. Yeah, it was more like, no, I think it was more like nine and a half, and then he was in the halfway house. So, okay, sorry. I remember feeling my father's gone. And I had wrote my father a letter like six months. months prior to him coming home saying don't talk to nobody nobody's your friend out here they're all

no good they're going to take i swear on everything holy they're going to get you right before thanksgiving i know what's going to happen and it was two days before thanks it was like right before thanksgiving and they just took them they they they they i just remember going my nephew going puppy it's the police and i knew what it meant like i it was that second i knew everything like everything like it's happening again and um a couple days later maybe i don't know the exact date on the newspaper but it read mob wife's or husband's is this niche that's how you found out he ratted where's the phone it was on the cover it was on the post it was in the post yep everybody so that happened my father goes whoever again and i remember a couple guys coming to my house

did you find him is he in is he in i was like i don't know what did you do you do you do my father's gone everything like so everything i learned my basic training went out the window that day like basic training because now everybody's gone so it was this feeling of panic and and despair and then you know a couple people coming by checking to make sure i was good they probably weren't checking on me they probably would come to find out things looking back at it now um and i remember a couple people going we'll send we'll get an attorney you don't Don't worry about it. We got it.

And I remember somebody calling me and going, they can't find him. He's not in MCC, MDC or nothing. I didn't know what that meant. I'm like, oh, he's probably in the hole. Because when you get arrested, you go right in the hole. Like, so that's my brain. He's not calling. It was complete.

Oh, my God. Holy shit. Everything is just making so much sense right now. Sorry. I'm like having like this whole moment. everybody knew but me. Like everybody knew but me. How dumb.

Like your basic training, you're trained to know this stuff. You could smell them. You know when somebody's no good. They don't look in your... And it was like this feeling that I had from him, which I know today is not love. But I thought I loved this man so much that it wasn't... It was impossible.

He loved my family. He would never do this to us. And he was doing it right on to everybody. knows right in everybody's face. So the day I found out, I still didn't believe it. I didn't believe it. Like, so everybody told me about it, but I was like, no, he would never. Oh, oh, I was so fucking dramatic. And then, um, that was probably the end of November. I don't have the exact number, the exact date, which is kind of strange. But I remember. him calling me and me accepting the call and I was like, is this fucking true?

Is this true? It's all over the news. And I remember like the first couple calls, he was like, that's a lie. It's a lie. It's a lie. And then I remember he admitted it. And I hung up the phone. And what year is this?

It is 14, wait, is that 14 years? 11? Today, it's 2025 now, yeah. So that would be 14. It's 14 years in one week that I have no communication with him. I hung up the phone. was the end. That was it. What was the first conversation with your dad, like, after that? My father was like, don't talk to nobody. Don't answer no questions. And I think, you know what?

Part of me thinks that, like, I, when he was calling, like, the first week after the arrest, I think part of me was asking questions to ask questions, to figure the pieces of the puzzle out. And I think on that side, he was trying to figure out what I knew, like looking back at it. My father said it's not a conversation. We didn't talk about it. It's like my father never put me in harm's way. But my father truly knew I had no inkling whatsoever. So on November 12th of 2011, I got seriously depressed.

This was right before he got the 21st that same year. I got severely depressed and I was just like I didn't even want to live. I felt like this feeling of I can't do this anymore. I thought he was cheating. Something didn't feel right. And on the 12th, my dad was in the hospital. Actually, my dad had cancer. He had prostate cancer, bladder cancer, ureth cancer,

bladder cancer. And I was like, Dad, I don't want to, I just can't do life anymore. I remember that. And I also remember him showing up at my door. The hospital was like 10 minutes from where I live, 15 minutes. And I remember he was in a hospital gown and his dress shoes. And I guess he was, he ripped the IV out because there was, I clearly, oh my God,

my memory. I remember it and him being like it's going to be all right. And then what is that? The 12th. And then nine days later, my ex-husband turned himself in. I think all of it started to measure up from my ex-husband. Like he couldn't be a rat no more. Like it was all getting too close to the wire. But my father never discussed things with me. Never, never ever. Like that was not something that we did after it was all out. he'd be like that fucking rat rat bastard you know what I mean we did all that stuff together

but he really never discussed details he never involved any of us in anything how long after that was the watch incident that happened during mob wives so uh I would say I can't give you the exact dates but it was probably within like a month

of everything because once that all happens you start to move like things start to click I remember finding all the phones, all the fucking burn phones in my bathroom. There was a basket. And you know what's crazy? I don't know why I never looked for it before. Like, you know what I mean? Like, looking back, like, I could tell you where the basket was in the cabinet,

but why I never went through my cabinets before. Like, that's how much I would never think of it. But there was like five burn phones. And everything started to measure up. And I was like, fuck this. Oh, my God. I got to take. The watch collection, this is what I'm thinking.

I think I'm sitting on a gold ride. Okay. I was sitting on fake Rolexes, but Y is. Everything was fake. There wasn't even a real fucking watch in that collection. To understand the level of betrayal, I'm laughing at it now. Like, you couldn't even leave me a real watch, you deadbeat. Tell us that story about going to the, you know, the jeweler.

The jeweler. So I remember, I was like, okay, I'm going to hawk the watches, whatever, hawks, sell, whatever it's called to. So I go to the jeweler. I'm like, just give me what they're worth, whatever. And he was like, all right, have a seat. You know, let me check everything out. He goes in the back. He comes out.

And he goes, Renee, have a seat. I was like, just give me, just give me the money. Just give me the watch. He's like, Renee, have a seat. And I'm like, Jim, what's going on? He's like, I got to tell you something. I'm like, now my, I have no fucking clue. I can't even begin to say, like, I had no idea he's going to say,

they're all fake and they have wires in them. Like it's one thing you hear all fake but there's wires so now again this is all in real time so my brain has to compute everything I'm like what do you mean? He's like it's on your wrist

I took the watch off and he went into my and my watch my Rolex it was the stainless steel because I didn't have other watches but I didn't have the stainless steel with the big face and I loved it and that's the watch he gave me in the hospital So the watch that I had on had a fucking wire in it.

Do you understand? You could have fucking, not you. Why did he even have to do that to me? Why did you even have to put, give me a watch with, like that's got to be some sort of illegal. I mean, not that I'm going to court, but like to think that he gave me a watch with a wire in it and you're taping us? That's some sort of violation I can't.

I can't even begin to like connect all those emotions with yet. That's probably why my journey, my recovery journey has been as hard as it is. Like I just recently heard he's being released again because I have an attorney that keeps me like, you know, aware of things because of the violent past that he has with me. So I'm always like very hypervigilant. So he's being released. and I think all those emotions start to come back up and forgive me if I'm a little flighty as I'm going through everything with you. It's because a lot of things are like dots are connecting.

And it's very maybe cathartic is the word, but there's something happening where like everything is clicking. I'm very locked in. Sorry. And I try to make a lot of jokes about my life because otherwise I cry. And it's just heart-wrenching to know that there are so many people that have to experience this level of betrayal. You know, the father of your child. This episode is brought to you by Subaru.

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What ends up happening to mob wives? So, Big Ants got cancer. Within the first, within that year, she passed away within a year. So we were filming mob wives, and then she passed away and we went, we, we ended the reunion. and then she passed away right after. And they kind of just put it on hold, debating if they should come back. But then there was the feeling of emptiness.

So we went on hiatus. And then one thing after that, so that was like the first year. Then it was the Harvey Weinstein thing. Then it was COVID. Then it was this. Then it was that because that was in 17 that we ended. So Harvey Weinstein.

It was just like a domino effect. And it kept pushing it back and pushing it back. And then I guess some of the women didn't want to come back. It was just hard on, it was hard on everyone from my sister network production. Everybody felt Big Ang's death. However, and I'm not trying to be, I'm very sympathetic to her passing. But they should have came right back. They should have bounced that show right back because they were.

was so much more happening. Like the effects of losing somebody that you love, the effects of watching the hundreds and hundreds of people that came to, that were, like people that were mob associates that came to her wake, there was so much more to that story. And I think that it should have ended on a different note than like, it was like a dreadful end. What ends up happening to your dad?

So my dad comes home, went to jail, did his last bit in West Virginia, came home. My dad got dementia and, sorry, came home. And when my dad came home, his health declined, he had open heart surgery. He wasn't the same as he was. I think my father was, as much as he was a tough guy and stand-up guy, I think he was a little bit of heartbroken, that what my ex-husband did, and to watch his daughters go through and to watch my grandson go through the shit that he did.

I mean, not my grandson, his grandson, my son. That, I think, really affected my father because he was so close to my son. So ultimately he came home, and then he got very, very sick with dementia. and he passed May of 19. It was probably the hardest day of my whole entire life aside from finding out that I was stripped of all of my mob royalty. Like that was pretty bad too. Getting kicked off your high horse.

What do you mean by stripped by the mob royalty? Oh, God. Like you go from being Anthony's daughter to a rat's ex-wife. Like, I felt the whole entire shift of, Anthony's daughter Renee Graziano to her ex-husband's a rat, rat, rat, rat I felt that.

I mean, I'm still, Anthony Graziano's daughter don't, and nobody should ever get that twisted. But I remember, like, the blood drink. Like, it was really, like, God, it just was like, boom, like right off my fucking horse. And there was no cushion.

There was nothing to bounce back. Like, I was never stripped because it, for me, It's not, you know, I can't have what they have. But I remember it being like people not talking to me. People not answering calls. Like, I know what that feels like. So did that all shift after your father passed?

Or were people accusing you of being, you know, the mobs or ex-wife to a rat before? Well, people were like, oh, she must have known what she must do not. I didn't know fucking anything. Under no way, shape, or form. I probably would have smothered that motherfucker. I'm dead ass. I don't even... That's my father and my son's...

That's my son. So it's... My father belonged to a life that he knew consequences. My son did not deserve anything. So I think as a mother, my reaction would have been to protect my son because I knew... I didn't know then,

but I know what that you have to go through. because of everything I've seen. I saw what happened to Karen. So for me, had I known that that was going to be my life story, I would have fucking ended that bastard before I would fucking, that's terrible. Could you dig that out? I'd never kill anybody.

That's horrible. Maybe I'd smother them. I would smother them. Yeah, I definitely would have smothered them. But, sorry. What was the question? Sorry. about if you had that rep after he died or before.

So when everybody got arrested, everybody's like, she had to know, she was filming, she was filming. And by no means did I know anything. And people didn't talk to me like family. Some family didn't even talk to me. And then we went to court, court for my dad. And he went away.

And little by little people started to come around. People know I wasn't, I wasn't running. I wasn't going with him. I wasn't leaving. So I think I was right there and they were like, this crazy bitch, the shit that comes out of a mouth, she could have knell because I was on like a war path for destruction for that man. So I think before my father passed, you know, people started talking to me again and they were respectful.

And then I think once he did die, some people once again stopped talking. And then there's, there were others that got very close to me to let me know, like, you know, like, you know, you always have us. What did you do with your life after your father passed and, you know, just everything, mob wives ended? So after my dad died, my addiction probably took a hold of my life. It was on and off and on and off and a lot of mental health challenges. So I kind of dipped out for a second.

but I still did I did family boot camp marriage boot camp celebrity big brother I've had product launches I've had books like I had I have a great career you know there's more coming in the future for me absolutely positively but I think losing my father changed me ultimately Like, I'm still at mom-boy-vall. I'll always be Renee. I'll always be Anthony's daughter, but I came into who Renee Graziana was with all my flaws. Like, I could be like, yeah, I'm her.

I'm her, I'm her, I'm many, like a diamond has so many different facets, so do I. And I'm grateful for my life's experience. The only regret I think I truly have is that my son had to experience. It's it. Where are you out with your addiction today? My recovery. Like I told you in the beginning, everybody's journey is their own. I don't, you know what I stopped doing? I stopped counting days. I think for me, the pressure of like 365 days, 300 and like whatever, 365 and 365 is, I think all that pressure is too much. So one day is enough for me every day. Every 24 hours is enough. I don't.

have to, oh, look at that. It says enough right there. Sorry. I don't have, I'm so ADD, though. I don't have to be like, I have three days. I have 10 months. I have two years. I don't, I can't do that. That puts pressure on me. I don't need that extra pressure. What I need to do is just get up and be sober for 24 hours every single day. And eventually it'll be 10 years or 15 years. But I think the most important part is the judge like people, a lot of people like to judge and you know that and they'll finger point

if they see I'm slightly off and they'll be like oh she me left oh this and you know what I haven't been shy on Instagram so I pretty much know what my fucking story is and I think if anybody's paying attention so do they but I'll say I'm sober I'll tell you that my family loves me tremendously and my grandkids

think I'm the best grandmother in the world and that's really all that matters to me is what they think. The outside opinions, it's it and spend. What do you think to the public's biggest misconception about you? I'm a bitch. A lot of people think I'm mean. And they don't know, I'm like very, well, you know it now.

Like, I'm goofy, I'm friendly. I'm very, they, they, they, I'm loud, but I'm not as loud. Misconception. Oh, they think I'm a lot bigger in person. No, they think I'm a bitch. They think like when they meet me like, I know there'll be people like, oh my God, I didn't know you were nice.

And I'm like, well, what the fuck? I think because on TV I'm so hard and I'm so in your face. So I think that's the biggest misconception is that I'm bitchy. And I'm really not. I can be, but I'm really not one. Do you ever see yourself sitting down

with your ex-husband for the sake of your son? You fucking nuts. Do you need psychiatric help? Never, never, never, never. Never. I love my child more than anything in the world, but only one of us would walk out of that meeting. And it would definitely be me.

So there's a no way shape or form. I would never on my grandchildren, ever sit across from, never. What's your mom's take on that whole incident? Fucking hates him. and that woman is the nicest lady in the world. You got to understand. So my family's watched me suffer, my mental health suffer. So it went from rats, stool pigeon, you know, doing all these things to watching them,

to watching what he did ultimately to me. And I think for me, sorry, I think my mother, you know, she'll say, told you, I knew you shouldn't have married him. Like she'll always, she'll throw that dig. But she watches what it did to my mental health. So there is definitely resentment. I hope nobody in my family dies with resentment because resentment is a motherfucker. But there's a hate you.

I think my, she doesn't hate people, but yeah, I think she does. I think she hates him. She hates you. Sorry. Do you think your mom regrets being a mob wife? Like, do you think if she could go back and tell him? and pick something else she would? Probably.

I mean, I'm probably the only one in my family that would be like, I'd never do. I want the same life. I think, yeah, I'm sure my mom had, you know, dreams and goals as a little girl, you know. I don't think she thought her life was going to be going to federal prison correctional facilities and sending commissary and phone calls, you know, 15-minute warnings, although I bet she's happy that that did it. happening. He could only call a few times a day. But yeah, I think my mother, to say she would do it over, I never asked her that question, but I will today. But most people would probably want to do it over.

I'm probably one of the few that would be like, yeah. I want my father as my father. Yeah, I'm real fucking proud. You're ready for the next season. I'm fucking proud of my. That's right. Very ready. What's the biggest lesson you've learned throughout everything you've been through? Ooh. I have two. So, and they're both from my father. Always remain humble. And you have your name and your word.

And for me, it's, I've watched God kick me over. The humility is extremely, like, remain humble, period. Because God give it and God take it. And my father would always say that. Well, there's three. There's two shall pass. Like, they're all my father saying, like, but I remember, like, looking back and watching him, he was really, he was really, oh, I wish everybody could have like a dad like me.

He was great. He was entertainment. He was, he was everything. He put up, he was always trying to make people happy. Like, he saved, he saved a girl, him and his two, they're two different Ronnie's, but my uncle Ronnie to the left, they saved a family. They saved a family that was in a burning building. They ran in and saved a family.

And then my other Uncle Ronnie, a girl was skating on ice, and she was like felt through and they ran on the ice and Prospect Block and saved her life. And I don't think that people get to see those parts of them. They could have walked right by. Everybody else was walking right by, but they didn't. Well, Renee, I appreciate you coming on the show today. This was great.

Thank you. I've been locked in. Yeah, you've only said it 30 times. I know. It's good. I like it. You're promoting the brand. Well, we appreciate you, Renee. Love you.