Locked In with Ian Bick - Saigon: How I survived New York State Prison

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Saigon sits down with Ian Bick to tell the full story of his upbringing, how getting pulled into the streets and gangs led him down a path that ultimately landed him in New York State Prison, and the crime that changed his life forever. Saigon opens up about what surviving prison really took, how incarceration reshaped his mindset, and why he refused to glorify crime after his release. He breaks down how music became his way out, eventually signing with Atlantic Records, and working with Mark Wahlberg on Entourage. This is an honest conversation about prison survival, accountability, hip-hop, and building a future that doesn’t lead back behind bars. _____________________________________________ #prisonstory #truecrime #prisonlife #statesprison #prisonsurvival #lockedin #realstories #rap _____________________________________________ Thank you to PRIZEPICKS for sponsoring this episode! Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/IANBICK and use code IANBICK and get $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup! _____________________________________________ Connect with Saigon: https://www.instagram.com/saigontheicon/?hl=en Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Prison vs the Streets: The Mindset That Changes Everything 02:00 Growing Up in New York: Family, Pressure & Environment 09:00 Music, Identity & Early Dreams 16:00 Teen Years in the Streets: How It Starts 24:00 First Arrests & Real Consequences 32:00 Chasing Reputation: Violence, Gangs & Image 39:00 Life on the Run & Finally Getting Caught 44:00 Inside the System: Rikers, Rockland & Prison Notoriety 50:00 Prison Reality: Gangs, Politics & Survival 58:00 The Turning Point: Mentors, Books & Mental Shift 01:04:00 Life After Prison: Music, Temptation & the Industry 01:13:00 Rejecting Gangster Rap & Choosing a Different Message 01:18:00 Acting, Entourage & Breaking Into Hollywood 01:23:00 Modern Rap, Violence & Where the Industry Went Wrong 01:32:00 Building a New Life: Music, Tech & Purpose 01:39:00 Final Advice to the Next Generation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Copyright 2026, the Coca-Cola Company. Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. And in prison, we have to say, like, you got another one in. I guess they're going to pause this, meaning, oh, you can go do another bid. Like, I could tell by the way you're acting, you got another, you got one in it. Like, you can go sit down for eight years and be okay with that. Tell us about why you went to prison. Every, every notorious criminal ever came through Rikers Alley, you know, and the violence,

just the history of Rikers Island. Rikers Island is probably the most famous jail ever. Were the New York prisons violent and dangerous back then? I went there and I almost started a riot. Knowing the music industry, why do you think? it's one of those industries that doesn't discriminate someone with a criminal record. I'm never going to be no sheep. I'm always going to be an aggressive. Saigon came up in the streets and gangs of New York and one crime sent him to state prison.

This is how he survived. Why he refused to glorify that life after release and how prison pushed him toward music instead of back to the streets. Saigon, welcome to Lockton, man. Thanks so much for coming on the show today. Thank you for having me, man. This is special. Yeah. Small world that you're in Connecticut. now. I know, right? I love Connecticut, man. When I see other people from New York in Connecticut, I get mad. How do you know about this? Connecticut is the best kept secret. Yeah, yeah. And it's been there the Tri-State area the whole time. It's been there the whole time. Everybody goes to Jersey,

the Hackensack, the Edgewater, to, oh, yeah, yeah. I'm like, nah, Connecticut is the gym, bro. And it's the same proximity to New York City. We all want to be close to home, so that's why we don't go to well some people go to Atlanta but the ones who've got to stay stay here got to stay here yeah people are funny too when you say that you know you're near New York City they're like ah it's so far but it's literally

like an hour and 15 minutes I get to the Bronx and 15 minutes yeah the Bronx is like right there yeah it's no different than going from New York City and New Jersey it's no that's the proximity is exactly this this is actually closer yeah from to get from here to New York City

yeah because you don't got to deal with A lot of that GW traffic. Yeah, the traffic. Yeah, you shoot right here and you right there in Stanford. Good old Stanford. Yeah. When we go to like the airports, if you leave at the right time, you get there an hour, hour and six minutes to JFK.

You want to hear something that we really don't give Connecticut enough credit for is artists like myself, artists like Max B, artists like Papoos, artists like the locks, like the real underground, like gritty street, artists from New York City, we make our bones in Connecticut. This is where once Connecticut, once you're on fire in Connecticut, you made it. It's kind of not like New York City, especially in the past 15 years. But once you go up to, you start doing Toe's Place, you start coming up here to Halffoot to New Haven and they rocking with you.

They used to book Macs so much. I'm like, yo, you just did a show in Connecticut last week. They love me. Since he's been home, he's gotten like three or four shows. Yeah. He had a show the night before he did this pod. Yeah, but me too. Man, that's why when I was heavy in the music,

when Connecticut would really jump on a song, I'm like, we got something because they fuck with it in Connecticut. Yeah, it's a good tour stop because you can literally hit Massachusetts, then go to Connecticut, then hit New York City all in the same three days. But Connecticut kind of got to fuck with you. They're funny about that. They don't say they fuck with you or they don't. Like, they'll be like, go to Boston, skip us.

A lot of artists, they're really funny about the particular about what artists that they fuck with. Where do you grow up? Oh, I grew up all New York City, New York, all over New York, Newburgh, Spring Valley, Brooklyn. Because I'm one of them kids who was, when I was young, I thought nobody cared, nobody wanted me. I didn't have the insight to know my mom was a young mother. and she was, you know, going through her stuff. And I got a Haitian father who's from Haiti and who's very involved in his kids,

but not involved, but involved as far as making sure they're okay. And they're not eating out the garbage type shit. So my father would take me, and so I end up in Flatbush, Brooklyn, I end up wherever I ended up growing up. But I wouldn't change that because it shaped me so much growing up by seeing not staying in one place.

Even schools, not being in the same school for a year. It made me have to adapt, rapid adaptability where I had to make new friends quick. I had to learn how to make new friends because most people live in the same town their whole life. So their friends be their friends for five, six years. So I had to make different friends. And that became a skill set in a sense, like, oh, shit. So you start getting close to a person, you'd be like, I'm probably not going to be here too long because I live with my aunt.

And she's getting tired of me, but it's, you know what I mean? Hopefully we could continue a friendship at that age you don't know, but it was something I learned, but later on it worked for me. What did your parents do for work? My parents never worked. My father, I don't think he ever worked. But my mom was, she did what she needed to do to survive. See what I'm saying?

And she taught us that survival skills. Like when they ain't no food, sometimes we got to improvise meals with jokes. Like literally, my mother would tell jokes because we was hungry. Like, oh, we're like, wow, what we have? Oh, we haven't sleep for dinner tonight. You ever have had sleep for dinner? It was a joke for her, but it became funny. But it was because, and rest of peace, I got, she's not here.

And she's the reason why. a sense of humor. My mother's the reason why I could take some of the work situations of my life and try to find humor in it and try to find laughter in it, even though it's painful. And I thank her so much for giving me that because my mother would joke about it'd be bad scenarios and my mother would find some kind of humor in it. And like I said, growing up, I didn't understand. And hindsight, looking back, I'm like, damn, she was just trying to laughter is good. Lathor is like taking your soul to the laundromat.

To me, you cleanse your soul in a sense. How many siblings did you have? On my mother's side, I had four. My father's side had about 13 or 14. Oh, wow. Yeah. Did you know all of them? Were you close with them?

No, I knew about seven of them, seven or six of them, because he would go to Haiti and bring them back here. And that's one thing I respect about my father, because I always was told bad things about them. But I was like, damn, what kind of bad man would go get their kids that they had from women that they probably would never deal with again to go get them and bring them to America and try to give them a better life?

So, you know, back then you believe anything you hear, especially when it's coming from your mother and somebody you live with who's feeding you. But when you look back, that's why I love hindsight. It's 2020. I love when they say that because when you look back, you can say, damn, this was a good thing. this was a good man because he was going to get his children that he had from all these women that he

weren't with and bringing them to come live with his current wife in America just so they have a better life. How do you have described yourself as a kid? See, my situation is different. I wrote a book too. I got a book called Pain and Peace and Prosperity. My grandmother, who named was Mary Elizabeth Sampson, she, my grandmother made me believe. that I was very special because I could read when I was like three.

I could read at an early age because I had a big sister named La Dija who was five. So she's two years older than me. So when she's learning how to read, she's teaching me everything she's learning. So I'm learning from her. They just thought I was like this genius, but she was always there like, sound the word out. These are vowels. So everything she learned, she would come back and I'd become her little student.

So then when my grandmother realized that I could read because she had a record collection of gospel music and she would be like, Brian, go get Mighty Clouds of Joy or her church friends would be over there. I run and go get it. So they're like, oh, maybe he just knows the record. They're like, nah, anyone you name. But they're like, how does he know?

They're like, he's actually reading the titles. But I was a three-year. I was a toddler. I never been to pre-K. And so all my life growing up, I was told I was different, I was special, I was this, I was this, I was that, and almost like I was a freaking nature kid. But the love, like that part was there, but then it was like, okay, but nobody's here to take care of you. Or you got to eat out, you got to eat what you care, or it was just something that didn't add up. So I just was confused as a kid.

I was confused like, damn, my special or not? because I keep telling me how great I am, but my friend over here got a bike. He's getting a bike for Christmas, and I'm getting a cope, something that I need. Relax and let Ralph's delivery handle your grocery shopping this week. We start with only the freshest items, then review your list and carefully choose each one.

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This should be tons of fun. Marvel Television's Daredevil, Born Again, now streaming only on Disney Plus. What were your life aspirations at the time? And were you into music? No. It's funny because I was always into music because my mom sang and but hip hop. So I was born in 1977. I'm 48 years old.

I was born in 1977. So I remember one Christmas. My father asked me what I wanted for Christmas. And for some reason, I wanted hip-hop cassettes. I wanted U-T-F-O, which was a group that came out. There was a f-yam, the fat boys. There was a group called the Fat Boys, who was from a close-by neighborhood, but they were popular.

And I was like, this is what I want for Christmas. And Public Enemy, I've never forget. It was three albums that my father got me. and those three albums shaped me into want and to rap because all I did was play those albums over and over and over and over again. I didn't even know they were like famous. I just like the poetic part of it.

But then when I started to see, your MTV Raps came out later on. That came out a couple years later. So I was in this before it was on TV. When I started to see it on like YomTV raps and video music box, I was like, oh shit, these guys are like wrestlers. They're like superstars.

That's when I was so on wanting to be a rapper. What about your teenage years? What was that? Like, were you in school? I never went to high school. Like, no prom, no, none of that. Because I was so influenced by the wrong people growing up. They were the right people, but they were the wrong, with the wrong,

How do you put it? I don't want nobody to see this and feel like, you know, but they were the right people and they had the right ideas. They just was following the wrong path because we didn't have fathers. Like, crack, I grew up in a crack era, and one thing we know about the Rockefeller laws is those laws were designed to attack the war on drugs, eh?

So you had all of these bullshit laws where they locking guys up for 6, 7, 8, 9 years for selling $30, $30 worth of crack. They used to call seal indictments. Oh, he got a sealed indictment where you sold $30, $40 to an undercover cop. And crack was throwing on us like out the blue. Like, it went from, oh, here's a way to make money. Then there's movies like New Jack City showing us Nino Brown where God comes from the ghetto

and he becomes this, you know what I mean? Like a black scarface and shit. So every little kid I had known started dabbling the drug game, not realizing there's laws in these games to really fuck you over. So you're thinking, oh, I'm making sneaker money. I'm making beeper money. Bullshit money. But the risk is nowhere the potential reward

or the potential punishment from doing that. But nobody's telling us this. So we're out here thinking, yeah, we're getting it. We hustling. We grind it. Then we get locked up. And then you're like, damn, you're going to take five. I sold $30 worth of a crack.

That's worth five years of my life. And that's how to. Rockefeller laws, would they just... You understand, the 80s, the prison population in New York State quadrupled because of crack cocaine. So did the streets interest to you at a young age?

The streets was everything. The streets was, I mean, the streets were just, what they call it now? I'm outside. That was outside your front door. So unless you had super, super duper parents growing up in the ghetto or in these impoverished environments,

unless you had some parents that were not only had the time to really sit there and buckle down on you, because if your mother was at work trying to put food on the table and the streets is there calling you, like, bro, we're right here and everything that glitters ain't gold, but the streets is glittery. It looks good from that perspective. The guys who sell in drugs, they get the girls, they get the nice cars, they get all these things. So you're looking like, damn, I can go to school and work hard. and maybe get that 20 years down the line, get a Porsche, or this guy got a Porsche, he'd been on his corner for two weeks, three, three, four weeks,

and he got a car and he's a teenager. That's kind of like, it's almost like what's going on today with OnlyFans. Like, when I look at OnlyFans, I go, damn, where's the incentive for these young girls to realize that still, you still have to keep something intact and work hard? And if I'm growing up and I'm think about it right now, you're a young girl growing up in 2026, right? You look at it like, damn, I'm attractive.

All these guys think I'm beautiful. I'm desirable. I can go make, because I've seen this girl made $3 million on this girl. You're looking at potential. I can go this route or I can go be a doctor, which I got to do eight more years of school. to make 200 grand a year when this girl did some kind of fun she did some immoral it depends where your morals is at but she's making 200 grand a month am i willing to wait eight years and go to

real route that it's kind of because especially when there's nobody really saying this shit is bad when i grew up if a girl stripped even if she danced in a bikini she wouldn't even have to be naked she would drive 10 towns down, get a purple wig, change her name, so nobody could come back and be like, yo, she's a stripper. In 2026, that doesn't exist anymore. Well, now you have strippers on TikTok.

On TikTok. Yeah, that's not saying. Somebody can come show your mom, your girl. Like, look, this is it. And they kind of don't care because we become slaves to money. Or even the idea of being rich, even though most people are not even financially literate.

If you're not even financially literate, I could dump a bunch of money on you. You would lose it all. You wouldn't even know what to do with it. Do you remember who taught you or mentored you about the streets when you first got into it? Yep. It was first my, I had a cousin named Buttercup,

and he was just like my superhero because he was tough. He was tough. I mean one time, we both lived with my grandmother at this time. My grandmother had about 35 because she had 11 kids, so she had a lot of grandkids. I mean, one time he came home cut up. Like, he had, he should have went to the hospital before, whatever reason he came home.

I mean, this guy has blood everywhere. Like, he's dripping with blood. But I guess he's, I don't know if it's, I don't know if he's just hype or if it's, whatever, but he was like, yeah, I told him they can't do. And I'm looking, I'm, I'm a kid. He's about eight years older than me. So I'm probably like six or seven. He's in his teens.

He's cut everywhere. Like, he ended up needing about 500 stitches ultimately. But he comes home before he goes to the hospital. I don't know if his adrenaline, but something just got him. And I'm just looking. My grandmother's crying. She's calling the ambulance. And that day, he became, like, my hero because he became, like, fear.

I'm like, he's not scared. He's not fearless. He's saying, yo, yeah. And then ultimately, he grew up to be a drug dealer and a real street guy. And I just wanted to be like him. And then I had another cousin named just, who he just, that was our path. It just seemed like that's all,

that was our only option to make it out of street, to make it out of poverty. Was there anything your mom did to try to stop you from getting into the streets? I mean, she would say, my mother was a realist, like I said. Not only was she a comedian, she was a realist. So my mother would be like, yo,

something's going to happen to you. I'm not going to be a dude on the body. Like, you're fucking around. You're breaking a law. Because I was so young in the street, I'm talking about 11, 12 years old. She's like, they're going to start placing you in these fucking group homes and these residential places for boys who don't listen. But, and this is going to be because I don't have to read the means to hire a lawyer, I don't have the means to help you. You're going to put yourself in a position where you're going to have to fend for yourself.

And I remember my mother telling me that at a very young age. And I'm like, you know, shit, when you're so young, shit, go, yeah, yeah, you're my mom. Nobody has more. I'm saying? You call the shots. And then when I start to happen, and you go put this up, I got arrested twice. In 1991, I got arrested twice in the same day. And I still have, you can post it right here.

If people read what you just post it right down, this is my real, this is what they call paperwork. This is paperwork from when I was 13 years old. What happened? What was the arrest? Two assault cases. So I assaulted, I hate to say, it was a female because my friend was fighting her brother. And she actually came from a big family. It was a one-on-one fight.

And they were tough, man. These girls were tough. And one of the girls, while my friends went in a fight, she jumped on my friend. So instead of me thinking, oh, this is just a girl, I just automatically went into fight mode and I hit her. And then I kicked her actually. And I got arrested for that. My mother was able to come get me because this was a fight off the school bus. My mother was able to come get me.

That same day, she got me out. I seen this other kid who liked the same girl I like. And I see him and I was going to saw him. So they was like, that was like the beginning. of me just being an assaultive guy. And it's funny because they keep a record of that because later on, which we'll get into later, as I became a real criminal,

and I'm going to the parole board, they're bringing up that shit. Like, oh, you're, this is your MO. This is what you do. You're a violent motherfucker. And that stopped me from getting parole. This episode is brought to you by prize picks, whether you're starting a new routine

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Yeah, I had a ton of anger. I had a bunch of anger. And it came from not feeling like I was loved or I was important enough. Because, like I said, I lived in Brooklyn. I lived in the suburbs. I had different groups of friends. And whenever I lived in a more affluent area and we had family structure, like we never had food at the, like, dinner at the table.

My mom, even if she cooked, it was like, the food's there. It was like jail. Go serve yourself. Go sit wherever you're going to sit. dinner at the table was never, ever, ever a thing that we ever experienced. I only seen that on TV. So when I would go move to certain places where they were like dinner time and they set the table and all that shit, that shit was foreign to me.

So I always felt like, damn, why we don't have this? And why would we just fucking the underbelly of society? And that's how I started to feel. And I think that's what kind of made me lash out, made me angry. And I wanted what the guys in the street had. because the guys in the street came from the same place, but they had things, material things. What ended up happening to those two cases you got arrested for?

Oh, I was on probation. I got on probation, and then I violated probation in probably a couple weeks. And then they started placing me. Like I said, my family could attest, and anybody who knows me could attest. Like, from 13 on, I was always in some kind of institution. Then I went to prison. and I didn't get my life back on track until I was 22 years old.

And it was hip hop music that really made me believe or made me see that. And also going to prison and seeing guys who was like, bro, don't throw your life away. Don't end up like, don't be a career criminal. And being here in your 30s and 40s, right now you're a teenager. But look at my number because in prison, the first two letters of your numbers the year you came in. So I had a 96 number when I went to prison. I was seeing guys in there with 78 numbers. So I'm like, yo, and they're still young.

I'm like, you came here in 1978? And they were like, yeah. And I killed somebody and I made a mistake over some dumb shit. And one little mistake as a teenager cost me in my life. So I only, I was sitting six years. So I knew I had another chance. And I was like, damn. They were like, you can come home and end up like us.

or you can go out there and make something of yourself. It's really up to you. When you think about it, wouldn't you rather go through it at the age you did rather than now? Because you see so many guys getting out now or in their 30s or their 40s. It's a lot different. That's when I say. And in prison, we have to say, like, you got another one in.

I guess they're going to pause this. Meaning, oh, you can go do another bid. Like, I could tell by the way you're acting. You got one in it. Like, you can go sit down for eight years and be okay with that. you come to a point. You know Ian, you did time. You come to a point where you're like,

oh, you can't get another minute of my life, bro. Fuck that. And if it means my actions is what's going to prevent me from ending up back in the zoo or captivity because you feel like you got captured. You're like a hostage when you're in prison. And it's funny because I had music and everybody, yo, when I did the time.

You wasn't in there fucking bragging about being in prison. if you could say anything positive for us to correlate prison or jail experience with anything good that shit is the most idiotic shit I've heard in my life well a lot of these rap songs are you know I went to trial or you know didn't snitch

went to trial ran it dumbest shit the dumbest shit we ever came up with especially us as black people it's the dumbest shit we ever conceived this is what I always tells so-called gangsters, right? Especially when they try to use jail as proof that they was gangster.

I say, yo, you ever had a visit? Everyone on a visit? Yeah, yeah, I got visits. You know, I got... I said, so when you came off to visit, what did they do? Did they tell you to pull your pants down? Yeah.

They told you to open your ass cheeks and cough? Did they say, you know, spread your ass and cough? Yeah. did it? Yeah, I did it. You're not a gangster, bro. I don't get a fuck what scenario you're in if another man

could tell you, yo, turn around, spread your ass and cough. Another man, he's going to look and use turning around and do it. All that gangster shit go out the window because somebody would have told you that in the street, you'd be ready to kill him. If somebody walked to you in the street, he was like, you'll turn around, even a cop.

You can turn around, drop your fucking pants and spread your ass. You'd be ready to kill him. but in there, because you're in this control environment, but a gangster is not, a gangster is not, oh, I'm only a gangster in certain scenarios, you know what I'm saying? A real true-to-life gangster is going to be, he's going to say, I'm not spreading my ass for no man.

Hell no, bro, you're going to have to do something to me. So if you went through that whole shit, all that gangster talk shit is asinine. Tell us about why you went to prison at a young age. Ultimately, wanting a reputation, because I thought a rep, we all thought, I think we think reputation is what made us. So I was hanging with older guys, a lot of older guys. Shout to La Mique Bish, a lot of guys who was real, real street guys.

You know what I mean? From East New York and the Bama. I'm hanging with some real serious guys. And because I'm so young, I felt like I had to make up for my lack of age and being overcompensating for being young by being ultra-violent. That's the only way I could play on the same. So whether there was anything wrong, yo, boom, I'm punching something I'm doing.

And to me, I thought my reputation, oh, they used to call me B-law. I was in a game called Low Lives. Low Life's out of Brooklyn, yo. Too below is crazy. Two below is crazy. Yo, he br-dr. And that shit was like,

to hear my name ringing bells in the street, that shit was like a drug. To the point where girls didn't even like me, they didn't even find me a track. but they would deal with me because I was, I had a reputation of being crazy and wow. And to me, I was like, damn. So what sent me to the prison for the long term was,

I went, it was this bar in Rockland County. And I figured out a way to get everybody guns in by going through the back because I was too young to go through the front. But the bar had a back door. Matter of fact, it was my friend who figured. He's like, there's a back door where there's, I couldn't get in through the front anyway. And they had a metal detector. But he's like, I could get in, I can go in, we can go in, and I could open that back door

and get you in the back. You just got to lay low while you're in there. If they spot your young ass in here, they're going to know. But you could bring everybody's gun in. So now we know everybody's safe because everybody got their gun. It was perfect. We did it a lot. We go in this ball.

They let me in through the back. I had like five guns on me, give everybody their gun, but I had my own gun. I keep my gun. And one night there was just this dude just kept bothering me for some reason. And I try to avoid it because I know I wasn't scared. I had a gun. Obviously, I wasn't scared.

I just didn't want to get kicked out. I didn't want to get caught being in the ball. I was like, I'm fucking 16, 15. I'm not supposed to be. This is 21 and over. I'm not supposed to be in here. So I'm like, this dude just. He just insists on bother me.

Enough was enough, and I approached him about that night. And then he said the wrong thing. I shot him for nothing. And then while I'm shooting him, he's running, and then I shoot somebody else. Next thing, you know, I'm on a run for that dumb shit. It was the dumbest. He didn't touch me.

He didn't punch. He wasn't a threat. I didn't know him. We didn't have no beef. It was just me proven. Mama Cheesemo because of the guys I was with. And I want them to know, I'm crazy. Like, I want to show you, I'll shoot somebody for nothing.

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No, no, no, no, no. Nobody died. Thank God. Nobody died. Thank God, nobody. I didn't, nah. Nobody, he got hurt pretty bad, but it wasn't, nobody died. How long were you on the run for?

I was on the run for two months. You know, it's funny. I was on a run for, because the only reason why I got caught is because I wanted to go back to school. In the summer, so I'm on a run for the summer and school's coming back. And I'm like, fuck that. I know the police are looking for me, but I'm like,

I miss school. I'm a kid. I want to be a kid still. That's how much I was torn because these guys that I'm hanging out with, they're not going back to school. And I'm like, y'all, hanging with you motherfuckers selling drugs. I want to go be, I want to go to school. I want to play basketball.

I want to, there was still a piece of kid in me. And so I ran down in Virginia. And I got a deaf cousin named Billy who Shout to Billy And shout out to his son He was like one of the best wrestlers in the world Damn, I can't think of his name off the door Rasha.

Rishon Dixon Shout, look out for my little cousin. So my cousin Billy, he had a dog, he was deaf. So he had a dog named Prince But he used to call a dog And this dog would We'd all try it like, and he would never, only Billy's tone could get the dog's attention.

The dog would be right there. I'd be like, um, ma'am, ma'am. But Billy's death. And the dog could be way across town. Billy, the dog would come. So I used to always try it and try to get, like, why does he only hear Billy's tone? We're saying what we think is a mama'am. The dog's name is prince.

He don't answer the prince. But when I was on a run, I met one time, police stopped me. and I played deaf. And I, from that point on, I was like, the whole town started to believe that I was deaf. Like I said, I was only wrong for two months. So I would go, I would talk like, I'm not going to do it right here

because I don't want to be a fucking mean. I don't want you to get in trouble, but I would emulate a deaf person so the police wouldn't put me two and two together. And it worked. It worked for a while because I got so many people in Martinsville, Virginia, I really thought, oh, that's the deaf kid. So they'd be talking shit about me, and I'd be hearing it.

They thought I was deaf. And like, yeah, this motherfuckers. And I'd be like, damn, they think I'm deaf. And I'd hear everything they're saying, but I was life on a run because I was on a run. And then ultimately, I want to go back to school. I started slipping. I started letting people know, fuck that, I'm not deaf. And that's when they sent a teletype from New York.

One of my friends told on me, like, he got caught up in a kidnapping case. And he told on me. And they was like, yo, they gave me up. Were they heavily searching for you? Yeah, yeah, because it was going to air. It was because I shot an innocent boston in that same night. Like, I shot the kid I had problem with, but somebody else got shot. And they just started harassing my mother.

And my mother was like, bro, you need to turn yourself in. You turn yourself in. They've been over here three times. They know it's you. You shot these people in front of all these witnesses. I had 19 witnesses. I had 19 people willing to come to court. So I had to cop out.

I couldn't go to travel and shit like that. Did fellow gang members snitch on you too? So the people I was with is the one of the ones who, one of the people I was with that night is the one. He got a kidnapping case later on. He's the one that let them know I was in Virginia. What did that teach you about gang life in that moment? It wasn't even gang like we were a gang,

but it wasn't like no gang as we know today. But what it told me about gang life is, it's like this whole movement, this whole fuck the streets movement, when people would be like, nah, how dare you say fuck the streets? How dare you say this and that? These same people will agree that the streets don't love nobody. Like these same people would be like, nah, I never say fuck the streets.

I'd be like, do you agree that the streets don't love nobody and they don't have no allegiance or no loyalty to none of us? Yeah, I agree with that. So how the fuck can't you say fuck them? That's like knowing the dude who don't give a fuck about nobody, he's a snake. You'll stab you. You'd be like, nah, we'll never say fuck snake-ass Ricky. The street, fuck the streets.

The streets don't love none of us. They wait for the next person to come in. And I even hate the word of street. I hate the word of hood. The hood is just short for neighborhood. Like, there's some kids that never did a crime in their life and they play on the same streets that the criminal is from. They can't go to the park because the dudes

who's so-called living the street life might go shoot it up. That kid is not a street kid. He just happens to live in a neighborhood. What about him who just wants to have a normal day of being a... He can't go outside because of street life motherfucker? It don't even make sense. We don't make no sense of none of the shit we do. Is that gang still around?

Well, LoLife? Yeah. Yeah, but it's about fashion. More sort of about crime. It used to be about crime. Now it was about Polo, like Ralph Lauren. Yeah, shout out to Orch and Thurston. Shout out to Pupp.

Shout out to Kurt DeBue, all the original, you know, Brady Low, like, my gosh. So they book you and they bring you back to New York? Yeah, they brought me back. I didn't fight extradition. They flew me back to New York, but I was too young. The thing is, it was crazy because they caught me in Virginia. them two while they was holding me they couldn't put me

because of my age they couldn't put me with adults they put me even though I had a serious crime they put me in this it was called it was in Dansville Virginia WW Moore I forgot the name of it but it was like when they booked me I go they put me in a yard I seen girl

I seen a girl I'm like is that a real girl like is that a girl they're like yeah it's co-ed I'm like there's a co-ed I'm like there's a co-a go-ed jail. So the guys and the girls would be in the yard just mingling

but we were all under 18 and so there's a law and there was a girl that was charged with murder in there. And she was like, I'd be home when I'm... So their laws were so different than New York and Virginia I was like pretty much back then if you did a crime under 18

you was pretty good. Even if you even if it was murder because they're like, they're not... You get like a clean slate once you become an adult. In New York, they'll charge you as an adult at 11. And throw you at Rikers. Yeah, at 16. First, you got to go

do DFI. They can't put you on Rikers under 15, but 16, your birthday, they'll send you from fucking Highland or Tri-on right to Rikers Island. I'm surprised they put you on a plane. Yeah, they put me on a plane, and it's so funny because I didn't know what to do, because I was like, it was so embarrassing because I had to be

the first one on and the last one off the plane so they you see people grabbing their kids like come on honey sweet because they had me walk in and they shackle me but i'm like where the fuck i'm gonna go on an airplane why i need shackles what i'm even if i run i'm on an airplane why i need to be shackled they were like oh it's protocol whatever case but i'm like damn do i so i me that's funny because i wrote a book pain peace and prosperity and it's one of the things that stood out i was like fucking i'm a a feet into the park so I just put on this like I was fucking

like I was one of the real infamous criminal meanwhile I'm 15, 16 year old kid but I'm walking through the airport with these detectives like this like I'm the real deal and meanwhile I like fuck it either I do that I look scared

I don't look scared because I'm like nah yeah and all of that shit in hindsight I look back I'm like damn I had some bad guidance bro like no guidance is everything when you're raising, when somebody's growing up. The people around them, like, when they say the fruit don't fall far from the tree, a lot of these things are figures of speech, but they mean everything.

So where do they bring you when you get back to New York? So they brought me to Rockland County Jail, and I just turned 16. I go there, and they was like, we could hold you here, and that jail was so boring. Yeah, I was like, yo, send me to prison. It was like being in a max because you stay in this little pod all day. You come out and play ping pong or day and you're backing your cell. I was like, no, that's the reason why I probably could have beat that case. Even without a lawyer, even with a public pretender.

I had a public pretender. I couldn't afford a lawyer. But number one, it was dark in there. Number one, I shouldn't have been in there. Now, I had so many things that if I was smart, if I knew about, I just was willing to, When a dude came, I'm like, how fast can I get out of here? And I'm in there with these jailhouse lawyers and you drop, yo, nah, you got to go up north. Up north is fun.

Prison is you can walk a ramp, but I'm like, oh, shit. Get me the best deal and I didn't even try to fight it. Number one, I had 19. He was like, he was like, he was like, just, you got me the best deal. He got me six years and I took it. What's the difference between Rockland and Rikers? Oh, only difference is different, like you got Suffol County Jail. Rikers is like the jail of the county jail, like L.A. County Jail.

Rikers is like the county jail for New York City. Okay. And Rockland is like right outside the Bronx. So they put me in this little jail right outside the Bronx. But only anyone ever hears about us Rikers. Oh, yeah, because Rikers is famous. Mm-hmm. Because every, every notorious criminal ever came through Rikers Island.

And the violence, just the history of Rikers Island. Rikers Island is probably the most famous jail ever. Like Sing, sing. You hear about this, when I was in prison, there was about 68 prisons in New York State. But you only heard about for Attica, the ones with the reputation, Sing, Sing, maybe Clinton. But there was like so many more jails that didn't never got famous because there's not, they didn't have a riot or they didn't have a movie about it. But there's Greenhaven, there's fucking Comstock. There's so many prisons in New York.

But you wouldn't think there's 60 of them. Yeah, I grew up only knowing about Sing Sing. Yeah, exactly. That was like the Alcatraz of the East Coast. Exactly. That was like the Alcatraz. Or Rikers. That's what Rikers is to New York.

And Clinton's more famous because of the escape and the Netflix document. And Tupac being in. Oh, he was at Clinton, too? Yeah, Tupac went to Clinton. Oh, wow. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

So you got six years they give you? Yeah, they send me to six years. How much time do you have to do on six? I did. I ended up doing five, but I kind of was fucking up. So I ended up doing five years. I could have came home before. Where did they send you first?

Oh, they sent me to Downstate, then they sent me to Kaksaki. Kack Saki was in jail for young kids, like the wildest of the wild. like the wildest kids coming from the four building. So they put you all together. They're like, oh, they used to call it animal lessons. So it's like adolescent mixed with animals because cutting each other doing dumb shit. So they sent me to Caxackie. And soon as I got there, I went to a medical dorm because I had some hip issues from a car accident.

And they're like, yo, you're going on a draft. This is so funny because CACCCW. Sacki was a horrible prison. I mean, not horrible. It was young jail. So I get there, I'm there for a couple months, and they go, you know, they draft, it's almost like you get drafted to a new team, like you play. So it was like, you're going to nap, nap, nap.

And I just remember the nap nap nap from a biggie small song where he goes, I bust a shop for my niggas and nap nap, nap, come stock. No, I bust a cat for my niggas and nap, nap, nap, calm stock, and Clinton. I'm like, I don't want to go to nap-nap. I'm like, no, no. Keep me here with the young people because that was like a max. So there's A-B-max and there's B-max in prison.

If they got a fence, it's like a, it's not that's it. We got a wall that's like max and maximum security. So when you leave a prison with a fence and go to one with a wall, you're like, hell no. This is going the opposite direction. And they sent me to nap-nap, and that's when I was the best of,

best thing that happened to me because I went there and I almost started a riot. I did a talent show. It was Black History Month. And when we were young and in jail, I always had this song. It was called Fuck the police.

So I used to be like, To all my people in the motherfucking house, let me hear you say, fuck police. The police would be mad, but they'd be like, you little assholes. We're young, we kids. Let me hear you say,

fuck police fuck police to all my people in the motherfucking house let me eat so I go to this talent show there's this group called seven up

they're they've been in this jail already they're young too they're fucking destroying the stage and they're like they're killing it

I'm not even supposed to perform and I'm in the crowd I'm like but I'm I'm talking shit yo man fuck these dudes

man these dudes ain't shit man I'm the best bro, I rap because it's this time I'm rapping. There's this fucking guy named Rick Martin, who's an East New York legend. He started the eight, he's one of the guys who started the 18.

This is a guy who bought out God to him. He bought so many tutt. He bought all these dudes out the house. Shout to Rick Martin. He did 33 years. He's home now. We work a lot closely. You need to interview Rick, too.

But Rick is a guy who's hearing me saying, I'm better than these guys. He's like, oh, where are you think you better than seven up? He goes to the fucking stage. Yo, we got this dickhead talking in the crowd. He thinks he's better than him. Oh, where are we going to bring him up? I'm like, no, I didn't fucking, I don't want to.

No. First of all, I'm in the maximum security prison. I don't even want to be here. I want to go back to fucking defense. You got me at the spot with the wall. This shit is jail, jail, jail. Nings motherfuckers in hair tattoo. Like, you know you're in prison.

I'm a baby. I'm a baby. Talking shit about some rappers. And sure enough, nah, now, now you. You got to go up there. I'm too scared to say no after talking all that shit. So I'm like, fuck, I don't know how this is going to. If I go, no I'm scared.

I might be no label as a fucking punk in here. So I had to get on that stage after these guys really did the great job. And I knew one song that always got the crowd's attention. So they had a band. They were beat you want to play. I'm like, play the symphony from Molly Maul. He plays it. I do that fuck the police shit.

Horns start going off. Shut down. I'm like, what's the dude start scurrying, chairs? I started a fucking mini riot. Anybody who watches this shit would be like, yeah, I guarantee you somebody in the comments was there because, and they're going to be like, yeah, I remember this shit. It was a, they locked the whole jail down. I'm like, what the fuck did I do?

And that really did two things for me. It made my bitch so much easier because they was, looking at me like I was a young revolutionary. When I wasn't, I was just doing a fuck the police song that I used to. But these guys are looking at me like I'm courageous. Like I knew what I was doing. Like, oh, like I'm young Jonathan Jackson, like I'm a Black Panther. So when they finally let me out the box, because they fucked me up.

The police fucked me up and beat me up, put me in the box when they let me out. I'm in the yard. They're like, yo, that's the young, yo, yo, yo, young. And I became like a jailhouse celebrity. I swear to God, like, yo, you need anything? And that kind of made, not only did it make me say, oh, shit, I got a little thrill from seeing the reaction, but it made my bid go so much smoother,

because from that point on, everybody, all the older, the elder guys wanted to take care of me. Like, yo, nah, sure he's good. Short ain't got no problems in because he was in there being, going against the system. Was it very clicky in that time period? Or did that not exist yet in prison politics? Yeah, it was the blood.

The whole gang shit was just starting, like the whole blood. But there was gangs, but they weren't Bloods and Crips. That was some Westco shit. We didn't know nothing about that in New York. We learned that shit from, like, colors. So there was a guy that came from Cali and started that on Rikers Island. But back then, like I said, it was more so religious. We weren't gangs, but it was like 5% of us.

Most of the 5% is in New York turned blood, right around 94. 95 because it was Latin Kings. So there was more of a race thing in New York State. It was more so like, same thing in LA, but they were more gang affiliate, more like toning, like Mexicans versus blacks. And that shit kind of was like what it was in New York State. So you had the Nyatars, you had the Latin Kings, then you had Muslims and you had five percenters.

That was the mainly four groups when I was coming up through the system. What's a five percenter? So a 5% is like a from a nation of Islam. So a nation of Islam, Clarence Smith X went off. He was with Malcolm X in him. He went off and said, yo, I have my own ideology of this. And back then, the whole nation of 5% of God's and Earths, the coordination of God's and Earths, it meant like,

because it could be long, so I'm going to just like nutshell it. What they say is five, it was 5% of the population and no Detroit. truth of what's really going on in the world. And there's 85% of the people are dumb, deaf, and blind. They're the sheeple who just follow whatever. They're the ones who don't really know it on. And then there's 5%, then there's 10% who are the bloodsuckers of the poor. Those are the ones who control the wealth.

Those are the ones who control the media who control everything. So we were the ones who were like, we know what's going on, was really happening. 85% of these motherfuckers are deaf, dumb, and blind. They're just going to follow propaganda, whatever you tell them. Same shit they do on the news right now. And then there's 10% of the population controlling all of this shit, which I still believe to this day. I just think 5% is too much. I think there's only like 3%.

That extra 2% is it. Yeah, the other 2% that converted to the sheepoo, bro. Because when you look how much we praise materialism and money and logos and all of these things that are not important. and pop culture, popular, popular culture. This was raising our kids, like fashion and things in that nature, even diamonds and jewelry.

When I was growing up, diamonds was a girl's best friend. If people even know why a diamond is even valuable, a diamond is a natural stone. But some smart company with the beers of one of them said, hey, this is a signal of love. So you give your girl a diamond

when you love her, when you propose, and then they turned it, this little rock and there's something valuable to now all these men you're iced out I got all these diamonds you didn't see men wearing diamonds in the 90s and 80s we didn't that was for women

so almost like with bags almost like even fat even being obsessed with fashion and their looks that was for women that was a feminine trait but now all of a sudden it's like you have all these dudes that were supposedly masculine dudes there was only one guy who wore a lot of jewelry, entertain.

It was Liberace. Liberachi wore diamonds. Every rapper looks like Liberace right now. Pull up a picture of Liberace. He was the guy who just, and we know that, you know, Liberace was an openly gay man. He didn't hide it, which is, you know,

but this was something, it was flashy. It was, so when you see all of these guys and they all got these diamonds on and they all tin chains and all of this, and you look at the imagery of it, you go this is not what we how we looked at

you're watching you're young we looked at B.A. Baraccas Mr. T. Even though he had a bunch of gold chains on he was a big tough guy who could fucking fight a truck you know what I'm saying like B.A. Baraccas

and that was his like image he wears a bunch of gold chains not diamonds gold you know like the pharaohs the pharaohs didn't even they cared about gold and then you look at how the culture shit

and you say, what the fuck happened? Like, where was the shift in the culture? And is it dead? People get mad at me because I say Diddy shifted it because I'm young enough to remember when Diddy came into the music business. Diddy made a song called All About the Benjamins when we didn't praise money before that.

We liked it, but it wasn't like, everybody's doing this to get rich and get money. We did it for the skill set of it, the, you know, the part, the artistic part of music. When I, like I said, my father bought me them tapes. I didn't care about, if I was a rapper, I'm going to be rich. When I was in jail, rapping in the yard, that was to kill time. I was helping my vocabulary.

I didn't look like, oh, I'm going to use this and be a millionaire. I don't think no really artistic person came into it like that. But once it became that, it took everything away from the art. Like, business does that. This was happening with boxing now, with all these exhibition fights. when you see Mike Tyson fighting at 58 years old and I love Mike but I don't blame him

because if I'm 60 or 58 you're going to give me all that money to go here and fight a YouTuber I'm doing it too but think about like a diehard boxing and he looks at this like no Mike no don't do it Mike like no Mike we don't want to see no but

money were the New York prisons violent and dangerous back then New York prison probably very, very violent dangerous. Very, very. That's why you see all these guys with the cuts on their face.

And that was young. You're going to see all these guys with cuts on these faces who came through Rikers Island. And that was adolescent shit. The older inmates would tell you, y'all come to the prison, y'all leave Rikers Island,

come up here with that little razor blade shit, and I'm going to make you eat that shit. Now I'm going to go and feed it to you. I'm going to stick a ice pick in your heart. I'm going to kill you. You come up here think you're going to cut my face and I'm going to walk around with a scar on my face. The older guys, they didn't play.

They stabbed you 85 times. So we went up state thinking, oh, like it's razor tag. Like we was, I'm going to cut you. You cut me later. Them old G's was like, I did one of you little motherfuckers put a scar on my face. Be the worst mistake of your life. I'm going to put an ice pick in your lung 55 times. Where do you think that came from the whole cutting razor tag thing?

I mean, because this was over 30 years ago. You're right. I don't know. we used to call it artwork. We looked at it like, yo, he got my artwork, like, yo, I did that to him. Like, shit is,

I think it was cow. I think it came from snitching first because it was called snitch cuts. So somebody snitching, snitched. You're supposed to know him and give him a buck 50. Like the show, bro,

snitches get stitches. That's where that whole saying come from. Snitches get stitches, you know what I'm saying? That's why when I see all of these YouTubers and the guys who talk about who's ratting right now, if we're going to play this rat snitch game, right?

Like where everybody's doing, yo, he's a snitch. These guys building whole businesses off of who's a snitch and who's not a snitch. What you're supposed to do when you see a rat is deal with him. You're not supposed to be like, oh, he's a rat. You're supposed to kill him. That's the way we all learned this from mafia.

We all learned it from Lecoaster, the whole concept of being a rat. We learned telling from home being a tattel. Your mother tell you, don't tell on your sister. your sister do something wrong she gonna get an ass poop but you're gonna get an ass with her too for telling her don't be a tattop tell we'll always learn that

don't be a tattel tell that's different from being a rat a rat is you sign up for some shit you get caught fucking everybody I'm gonna go down if I gotta go down we learn that from mafioso shit us is a black community but the way they dealt with rats is you kill him

you don't walk around just being like he's a rat it goes to paperwork and then these stuff Some of these guys who will call you a rat will walk right by you and they won't do nothing to you. They'll go back to the computer and be like, I just seen this snitch-ass nigger. Why you ain't do nothing to him? Because if you care about that life, that's all street shit. If you're in the streets toward a point you cared that he's a rat, you're supposed to be willing to risk your freedom to do something to him.

That's the code of the street. If you're not willing to do nothing to him, you're just going to sit around and type, yo, this niggas is a snitch. So what's the consequence? Ain't no consequence? Then stop playing this. You're not really playing the game, right? You just, come on, you're playing games with it. Because anybody you know, like we said,

the concept of snitches is you're supposed to, if you're in the street, like, if you know he's somebody that's going against the code of the street, you're supposed to be willing to risk your freedom to annihilate them. That's how it really is supposed to go. But we don't play the game for real. What were some other reasons you were getting in trouble for in prison?

You had mentioned you could have got out earlier, but you didn't. Oh, fighting, fighting. I like to fight, bro. I'm a fighter. Like, I always like fighting. And, like, the thing about me is, like, when you're in prison, you got to, you're going to be somebody to get herbed or somebody going to herb. Or you're an aggressor or you're a greasy. You're a sheep or you're a lion.

And I'm like, I'm never going to be no sheep. I'm always going to be an aggressor. And to this day, like, so, yeah, I could have got, if I would have did the good behavior, did the right thing and not gotten a lot of bullshit, and even that fuck the police shit, fuck me up. Because when I went to the parole board, they were like, oh, you incited a riot.

So I had explained to them, like, no, I was singing an iced tea song. That's how I would, because, you know, this court in jail. I was like, no, this is a song. It was a talent show. I didn't make these songs. I didn't make this song. song up. They told me to sing a song I knew and I sang an icedy song called Fuck the Poli Ice Cube

or whatever the fuck he was in W.A. I sang a song and I showed them the tape like, look, this song is called Fuck the Police. And they were like, you didn't think this was in a good place to sing that song. I'm like, I'm a teenager. I'm a baby. So my age and shit like that got me out a lot of shit. But yeah, but it was in there where I started. There was a guy named BJ born justice and a guy named Sharif who really changed my life because they started to say, bro, we're in here for 20 years.

We got 20 years to do. But you're going home and we see the potential in you. I thought it was the alarm. Damn, I thought I turned this shit all. It's not a long. You're getting mad. The alarm super sees it.

So BJ and Sharif, Sharif, man, God bless it. So who died, being a hero. He died in Brooklyn a couple years ago at a funeral. If I had to say I had a mentor, it was Sharif. But

these guys started giving me books. And it's funny because I'm young, so I'm still locked in. My man Sharif will give me a book and come back in a couple days and be like, yo, how you like that book? And I lie. I read it. I read.

So I'm like, yeah, that shit was good, man. I really liked that book. He'd be like, what about the time when the cat was in a tree, bro? And that lady had to climb up the tree to get that cat. I'm like, yeah, man, that shit was crazy. He's like, man, you lying. It wasn't a fucking cat. You, girl.

You ain't read the book, did you? I was like, damn. I ain't read it. But I am going to, nah, he was like, give me my books back. So when he started to take his books back because I was lying about reading them, that made me say, nah, you know what? Give me another chance. I'm going to read them.

I hated reading him at this time. I'm going to read them, bro, because I felt bad for lying to him and for being played enough to let him trick me in that trap. Like, I really read the books. He's like, yeah, that lady, she was crazy.

I'm like, yeah, that lady was crazy. He's like, man, it wasn't no fucking lady. He gave my books. So I was like, nah, nah. So I convinced him let me keep the books, but I knew I had to read them this time. So I started to read them. Then I realized that I,

I liked reading. I never knew up to this point that like I said, I never been to high school. I never really been, I dropped out of school, middle school and got locked up. So I'm like, damn,

I like reading. And then I developed a liking for reading. And when you develop a liking for reading, you get information. So I went from reading like novels first, like J.A. Rogers and all these memories of midnight and all these novels to reading more so about history,

reading more about, like even the law, I started to just acquire information. So when you got out of prison, what was your plan? Rap. 100% rap. 100% rap.

Because I was so good. That's why they called me the Y'allfather. I was so good in prison and rapping that there were guys who knew people who had worked their record. Criminal, they had connections. A guy named Nate Kwan knew some guys who worked at Loud Records

who have signed Wu-Tang, Mobb Deep was over there, Wu-Tang Clan, exhibit was there, cellar dwellers. They were the label, every rapper from New York wanted to go to. And a friend of mine who was in there knew somebody that worked over there. So I used to be rapping over the phone for them. So they're like, oh, man, you're good. As soon as you come home, we're going to give you an audition,

or I guess at that time it was. So that gave me hope. That gave me like, you know, it's funny because you did Max, because Max came up through the same thing. Max did a long bid before he did that. He did eight years before that. So Y'all for you and all them guys, black hands. Me and Max was like in the same camp, you know what I mean?

And Fishgill, and Max was in there. As soon as I left, he had came to Fishgill. So I'm thinking I'm coming home and I'm going to be a rapper because I got all these dudes from those, you're like, soon as you get out. Even to the point when I walked out the door, they was there with like a limousine for me. from prison.

But I thought I made it. I didn't realize all this is for your audition. All this is like we're taking you to American Idol, well, if you ain't got the chops, sound good over the phone. And they brought me to a guy named Maddie C. A guy who signed Biggie, discovered Biggie, who signed Wu-Tang, who just signed all of these guys.

And he just didn't like me. He was like, I don't know what they're telling you in prison, but you ain't got the chops. So that shit was the most discouraged and shit I'm walking all these jails thinking I'm the greatest shit and I'm going home and be a rapper

and I get to this guy the guy who has the power to do something and he's like man it's okay so I was so discouraged I was like damn but something in me said don't give up

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This is all I had, was the music. Was it difficult to walk away from your old associates, gang members, any of that when you got home from prison that first time? It wasn't difficult because a lot of those guys were dead. A lot of those guys were in prison. Even the ones who were in the street, I'm like, they were still at the same level they was when I left. So I'm like, I'd be a fool to go back.

Like I said, I was the youngest, always the youngest. So I'd be a fool to go back And go fuck with the dude Who's doing the same shit he was doing six years ago When I come home from jail You know what? So I'm like, nah You know what?

I built my own little I still had a stupid stupid mentality But I was the leader after that I'm like, I'm gonna go build my own crew For them to follow me And even though we was doing dumb shit It was really about the music It was all about the music

It was gonna get us out of here That was my whole This shit is gonna work one way or another. Now, knowing the music industry, why do you think it's one of those industries that doesn't discriminate someone with a criminal record? I mean, you look at like acting

kind of does in a way, depending on the situation, so many different careers, but the music industry, which could pay way more than most of these careers in certain situations, doesn't discriminate. And that's the reason why there's so many of us who will run to that, because it's not like basketball,

where even if you go to college, you got to have a GPA. You got to maintain a certain GPA to get playing time. This actually kind of helps in a sense. Once gangster rap came, that shit kind of gave you some credibility. It was kind of like credibility.

It kind of was a good thing. And that's what happened to me because I was just coming out of prison. But I didn't want to send no more kids to prison. So when I start to realize the influence the music had and how the labels work, I would only make positive music.

I got a record deal. I did, started with Mark Ronson, who went on to become one of the biggest producers in the world. He did, don't believe me just why. Don't believe me just why. That's uptown funk. That's Mark Ronson. Amy Winehouse, that guy had me when I was fresh out of prison. And we made some incredible records.

And I was a little impatient. I wish I was more patient. I was impatient. I wanted things to happen faster. He's like, that's not how I happened. So when that deal was up, it was like a short record. deal a couple months, six months. I was like, he was like,

yo, I want to keep working, but re-sign. I was like, nah, it's taking too long. So I went and I signed with Just Blaze, who was another super producer, and he got me a deal on Atlantic Records. But the thing was, when it came time to make the record,

they wanted me to do gangster rap because 50 Cent was so blowing up. 50 Cent was the most gangsters rap in the world in 2003, 2002. And it was violent, you know, he had got shot, he went through all this shit, and he was so popular, they were like,

we need a baby 50. We need somebody, you got the story, you shot people, you did all this shit. And I'm like, nah, I can't do that because I understand the influence of the shit. I don't want that, I don't want no blood on my hands. And it happened in Connecticut.

I swear to God, and this was a shift. I was doing a show in Hartford. I had a song called, See him, come again. So meanwhile, me in the video, this video, we got guns. We, you know, we're young. I'm still young. Me, True Life, who was infamous rapper slash, you know, bully, rapper bully.

So we doing this video and it kind of blew up viral. This was before it was the internet, but it was viral on DVDs. So I go to do a show in Hartford, and the promoter comes to me and he goes, Saigon, man, can you do me in favor? I'm like, what's up, man? Y'all booking me, like Connecticut's showing love. He said, can you not perform come again tonight? And I said, that shit wouldn't make,

that's like my most popular shit. That's probably why y'all got me here. And he said, because when DJs play that song, even when you're not here, it's always a shooting. Like in the club, it's always a shooting. So I'm like, for real? And like, off my song? And he's like, yeah, that shit made me feel like,

I'm never making another song like that again. I said if I can make a music that makes the route that gets people riled up and I'm thinking about the video and what I'm saying, I'm like, damn, if I was young and impressionable, I probably would, this shit would probably get me hype too. I vowed to myself. Not only am I going to not make a song like that again,

and I'm just getting my record deal, mind you. I ain't even start recording my album. I'm like, I'm going to go in a different direction. I'm going to make a shift and start rapping about Still try to make it sound entertaining because sometimes when you're preaching it's not that entertaining. I'm still doing my best, but I'm not doing that gang.

I'm not doing nothing that's going to send somebody to prison or to the graveyard. And I know it's because of my influence. And that shit, I sat on Atlantic Records for seven years because of that. They signed me in 2004. Every time they gave me an opportunity, I would turn in positive music.

And they were like, fuck you. And not only because I was on TV I was still doing other things So I was still popular But their staking me As Saigon was the record deal I was doing entourage I was doing acting

I was doing other shit So I was still popular But they're They only staking me with music So they're like nah We need you to do We don't like this Save the Children's shit

They didn't want to hear it There's an artist named D1 right now I love what he's doing Because he's doing A bunch of brave positive Like, it's cool to be a nerd type shit. It's cool to get good grades. It's cool.

We think, oh, nigga, I got 10 bitches. It's cool to have one. It's cool to be loyal to your wife. It's cool to come home at night. You don't need eight bitches. You know, I got seven bitches. I got 12. Like, all the underbelly of our societies was put to the forefront.

And that's not who we are in totality. It's just like if you take a person's worst part of them and put that to the front. That's why we, all the things our parents told us not to be is what was perpetuated in hip hop. When I was young, my mother would be like, boy, you ain't gonna grow up like them pimps and hustlers and gangsters on the corner.

And that's most popular in hip hop, the pimps, the hustlers and the gangsters. That's shit, it was what? So I'm like, was my mother wrong or are they right? What the fuck is going on? So when you grow up and you start to say, damn, my mother, they're like, you ain't never going to end up like them pimps

and hustlers and gang. But meanwhile, there's these big corporations just perpetual telling you this is what makes you a man is kind of, it's disturbing. It's a mind fuck, bro. Did you ever look at those rappers that came after you that did capitalize on, you know, the violence or the gang stuff? I ended up fighting with the whaler ones that came before me.

Shot the sticky fingers. We just got on the phone recently and squashed it out. He was in a group called Onyx. They had a song called Throw Your Guns in the Air. Cut your headball and go shoot, motherfuckers. Guess what I did? Cut my head. ball and shot motherfuckers.

A group called Mob Deep. I have an infant to all the killers and $100 billers to real niggas who ain't got no feelings. I'm hearing these songs when I'm young. And to me, to them is probably just music. To me, it was a lifestyle. So I'm thinking

I ain't got no feelings. I'm numb. Fuck that. That dude, I'm shooting. That's why I shot that kid for no real. All of that shit had influence for me. Not to say it's their fault. Because they were kids. But there was somebody, there was a lack of guidance for them. Somebody should have been like above them instead of saying, yo,

you can get money, but now you still have a responsibility as being a role model. Because when you put yourself out there, that's why I hate when rappers be like, we're not role models. Huh? All the kids look up to you. How do fucking role model? We're not a robot. How?

All the kids want to be you, these young ladies, these females and rats, you are a role model. All Nikki Monaz fans, the barbs, the car, they're fucking little girls. They're 12 and 13. But the ones that came after you that did capitalize on it, did you ever feel regret for not going down that route?

Or are you glad you stuck to your principles? There was times I felt like when my bank accounts hurt, when I can't pay my bills, I'm like, damn, was it worth it? Yeah, when you see guys like Chief Key. Yeah, yeah, I see these guys make millions, not a ton of them. And I'm like, and I look at me and I'm still, I got to go struggle to pay bills and be like, I had the same opportunity.

So that's the only time it hurts is when it's like, damn, man. But then it's like, maybe I could have went and got all the money and shit like that. But would I have been happy? I'm at peace of myself. Would I be at peace of myself if I went and amassed a bunch of money? But no, I left a string of dead bodies or sent a bunch of kids to prison because I knew how influential my music was and I just didn't care. I just cared about my bottom line.

I was like, fuck it, long as... And first of all, I'm not gluttony. I'm not greedy person. Prison, as you know, teaches you how to survive with bare necessities. So I don't need an eight-car garage. I'm not going to compromise something I stand for because it's going to get me some material shit. I'm not doing that.

And 90% of these dudes that do that. How does the acting come about while you're building this music career, especially at that time with the felony on your record and whatnot? How do you get an approach for that? And to be in something like entourage. Yeah, one of the biggest shows in the world. Entourage was one of the biggest. And all of that happened to me

sticking to my gun because G. Robeson was a guy who had did my deal. He was a music exec. He managed Nicki Baner. He started, like, he was one of the first A&Rs along with hip hop with hip hop since 1978 at Rockefeller Records. So they went on and

did their own thing. When they started looking for artists, you know, I came across them and he was just blowing up. And Jay-Z had said I was one of the best artist he to, he heard. Jay-Z went on public and was like, they asked Jay-Z. Matter of fact, you could play it on hand

because nobody owns it, so it's copyright-free. But it's actually Jay-Z saying, they're like, when you retire, who's going to be, they're like, either it's going to be Wayne or Fabulous or this guy that nobody knows named Saigon.

So that little clip of Jay-Z saying that, G. Robeson was smart enough. to make Mark Wahlberg hear that and go listen to my music. So Mark is a hip-hop fan. When Mark heard the music, he's like, we're doing his show and we need an up-and-comer artist

that really nobody knows. He's like, can this guy act? Is he personal? And G's like, I don't know, but we can give him an audition. Like I said, always auditioning. He flew me out to California. Nobody knew the show was going to be big

because this was before it even aired. And I didn't think none of it. I'm like, whatever. I went over there and I got the part. That's crazy. Yeah, that shit's crazy. Do you guys still talk at all? Who, Mark?

Yeah. I love Mark, bro. I haven't talked to him in a while. He's pretty elusive. He's one of the biggest stars in the world. Well, maybe he'll see this. He follows me on Instagram. Oh, yeah.

He's one of the biggest. He's a great, awesome, awesome. Real, real, real dude, man. Like, oh, those guys made me feel like so comfortable being out of my element because I'm not an actor. I wasn't an actor. That was like the first big production I ever did. And one thing I did asked for, I was like, can I,

use my real name? Can I use the name Saigon? Because they had a name for an artist that I'm like, and I asked for that, which was one of the best things I did because it helped market me as a more than a, more than just a rapper. So there's people that know me, for instance, to this day, I could introduce myself to somebody and say Saigon and they'd be like, oh, like the guy from entourage? And I just be like, yeah, like, yeah. How does that name come about? Like when did Prison. You got the name, Saigon? I read a book called Bloods by Wallace Terry,

and it was excerpts of black soldiers in a Vietnam ward. Somebody was smart enough to keep their journals and just talk about how they were fighting two wars because at this time, there was civil rights movements going on. So they were there fighting for America, and they would get phone call, like, yo, they just hung your brother

like the same country over the killing. They're like, yeah, they just hung L'Origo. The police killed. I was just saying. He's like, damn, over there fighting for a country just over there killing my family. So a lot of those guys, they AWOL, you know what AWOL means, right? Yeah. Absent when I leave, they AWOLed out the Army and stayed in Vietnam.

They stayed in Saigon. So Saigon was the capital. It's called Ho Chi Men now, but Saigon was the capital and they just was like, we're not going back to America. So there is a whole group over there in Vietnam where they mix. Vietnamese mixed with black and they just stayed and they just created this whole mix black A good blazian, they call it this shit. Blasian, yeah.

They made a fucking race over there, bro. And it was them dudes who AWOLed out to Army. They was like, why would I go back to America? I remember when I got home from prison, I was on Tinder, and I matched with this girl. And she said, I was like, where are you from? Or what's your background? She's like, I'm a Blasian. And you're like, what the fuck is that?

I was like, what is that? The fuck is that, right? Do you still do acting now at all? Yeah, I'm on a new show called Graveson. What's that about? It's a mafia show. That's how I know a lot about this whole rat and shit. Like, yeah.

We didn't come up with that. That's day shit. We just adopted it. What platform is that on? It's on right now. It's on Amazon Prime. It's one of the biggest shows on Amazon Prime. I'm going to check it out.

That's awesome. Yeah, check it out, bro. Shout out to Shaq. Like, Shaq. Oh, Andrew Dice Clay is on it. Willie DeMayo, who's the writer and producer, Michelle. All of them on there. Oh, my God.

It's an amazing, amazing. Trust me, it's like sopranos. 2.0. I don't know if you are a soprano. I watched it last year. Incredible. Yo, so now you got to check graves in. Okay. Because Shaq, you know, Shaq's character, me and Shaq, I physically have to fight Shaq.

Really? Yeah, like, physically. Like, this guy's so fucking strong. Like, I'm a strong, like, I got fucking muscles and shit. I'm a strong guy, bro. Like, I'm not a little. I look little, but I'm a... And when you can't budge a motherfucker, like, he's a...

And he's not even trying, like, I'm trying the Moosec like, I'm like, oh, I see why he got all them championships.

I see why nobody could stop him in the NBA because this fucking dude's like a wall. Now, are you guys still actively

filming? Like, is there more seasons? We just, well, I got, I can't give up too much.

Okay. Yeah, we just, we just wrapped up season three and it should be start airing in the next

couple months. William, the whole world's waiting where William got the whole world on his back about this show. That's so cool.

this all stem from prison. All stem from prison, bro. And I said, I produced movies. I wrote two books. I wrote Pain, Peace and Prosperity. And without prison, that's why there's a saying, do the time, don't let the time do you. And I, that's shit like that stuck with me.

Like, I should be in school right now. I was cognizant enough to realize, okay, I can't let these years go to waste. and a lot of cars come home with muscles but they don't work the most and powerful muscle which is your brain. That's why a lot of guys do time. They come home with the same mindset they went in.

They looked big, they got the cuts, but it was like one long day. They didn't read. They didn't go to, they went to the gym. They was working out every day. They went to the mess hole, the gym. And what they was reading was Donald Goin's books. They was reading fucking Donald Goins and bullshit novels and icebergs slim.

They didn't read nothing to, enhanced. They didn't learn about a credit. They didn't learn no financial literacy. That's why when Max was in there, me and Max would be on the phone. Max was in there learning a lot of shit. Max was in letting the time. He was in there playing, plot, and strategizing.

And that's why you see the food to his labor now because he had planned all this shit out. One day we were on the phone, I look at the back. He got a whole fucking studio in his cell. Yeah, he was telling us on the pod. I'm like, is that a fucking studio, bro? Like, we're on FaceTime. First of all, I'm like, how

How the fuck do you got a phone? And they all look in the bag, you got Pro Tools. He said, nah, I'd be killing it here. I said, damn. He said he made a million bucks in prison. Yeah, man. That nigga had a whole setup. Now, you used prison to build your career,

but now we see a lot of rappers doing the opposite and it's destroying their career. What do you think about that? And why are these guys getting jammed up? Because it's almost like, it's almost like, and I don't want you to get canceled, bro. But I'm going to just say something. that I always say.

You ever see like a gay man that acts more like a girl than an actual girl? Yeah. Not just like a guy who's homosexual. I mean like flamboyant, like always got to be loud. That's because

that's overcompensating for being something you're not so you got to do more. So when a lot of these guys who become these personas in their music, they start to really believe it. Like, there's no reason to, even if you was in the street before that, this is a way out.

You're supposed to abandon that shit. And it becomes the opposite. So a lot of these guys who wasn't really knee deep in the street, they get in it and they go, oh, people are buying it into this persona and to this gangster shit into wherever it is, this hustler shit. Now I got to live it. Now I got to put a bunch of people around me. Now I got to do, now I got to live up to it. Now I got to be real. Now I got to keep it real.

It's that dumb ass keep it real shit. and a lot of times like why the fuck would you be involved like Dirk like Dirk why bro you let slide for Vaughn bro you made it unfortunately this young man lost his life

that's unfortunate but you don't go back to street shit like that's why I love Little Bibi because you know I was one of the first artists in New York to work with Little Bibi little Bibi come from that same shit

you don't hear about Bibi being in none of that street shit He's a very successful entrepreneur who went and said, you know what? I survive Chicago. Thank God. Then you get the one. Look at Chief Keith. Chief Keith is quote unquote, right?

They give him the credit for drill music and creating this whole wave. He was a fucking 16-year-old kid. Now you got grown-ass men doing drill music for something that a little kid started. And it's death in that music. Like, Chief Keith probably didn't know what the fuck he was doing. He was a little kid. He's 16. And there's no everybody you could say is more,

you can give more credit than Chief Keith for drill. So all of these bodies and all this shit came from one little kid, right, who just said, fuck it. That's the, and I don't like. Let's talk about this what's going on in our projects. I mean, you look at the most viral moments, though, in time, and it's all come from something, you know, stupid from something that, you know, never would have, it just, you wouldn't have thought of it.

You interview Smurter, smirder through his hat in the ear, shit never came down. That shit made his whole. But I look at a guy like Bobby and there's just so much more potential than what you're doing. Like the way, like it's just there, you look at how I see Max B, he comes in here super professional. Yes. You know, amazing on a high level. And he just got out of prison a few weeks ago. Then you look at like a guy like Bobby who could be something like that, but it just, it's very unprofessional.

too at the same time. But you know what it is, a lot of times is people be finding themselves with the internet. A lot of times we see people find themselves right in real time. Like these young kids go, they stream, so they do shit in real life. So your margin of error is so slim. And Bobby was young when he went to jail. Bobby had an opportunity. Like I said, he got famous off making a song about the real crimes they were committing.

the ghetto in the hood. Like, 50s, when he's shot, niggas, and the feds built the case off his sit and built it into the point where he get out. He's like, I'm leaving that street shit alone, but there's, you don't just become a new person overnight. He's also still young, too. He's still young. He's only a couple years older than me.

Yeah, he's a baby still. Yeah. So there's still a lot more to learn and grow. Yeah. But you look at it, like, if he never went to prison, like, he was on the top of his, you know, career at that point. But he probably would be dead if he didn't go to prison. That's true.

or in prison for 25 years, but I happen to prove something. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, y'all think it's sweet because when you're on top and you're kicking that shit, there's always somebody out there

who wants your spot, and they're going to make you say, prove who you say you are. So even if he didn't, luckily for him, they just got caught with them hammers and they ain't, they have to lay nothing down or go to jail for,

like, potentially what Dirk might do. Like, potentially with, like, homeboys. Look at Casanova. Cassanova had did a bid. Cassanova's in there doing all this time. Like, it ain't just... Torrey Lanes. Tori Lanes, bro.

A kid from fucking Canada come to New York and you start hanging around the wrong motherfuckers, and now you shoot a girl or allegedly shoot a girl. Whether it's alleged or not, you got convicted of it. So you're a convicted felon

for shooting a woman, and that shit is worse. That's probably worse than being of sex offender. Like, you shoot bitches. Like, you shoot bitches, bitch, bitch. Touching him, bang. Like, you're a clapper bitch.

So, and, You ain't as talented as that kid is. You know what I'm saying? He's going to lose a chunk of his life. He's going to, who's to save? The world's even going to be what it's like when you come home. And you get deported too. And you might get deported.

Oh, definitely get deported. Yeah. You definitely get deported. And he's someone that was like, you would consider like an A-lister at that time, you know, rap music, you know. A lot of them, well, look at the ones who die and gang violence, right? When do you, when do you, you know, separate yourself from that shit? Like, when you're a successful person, the only reason why Nipsey Hustle,

I respect what he did was because he tried to show people in this community that we could build our own community up. In hindsight, I wish he would have left and did it somewhere else. He should have been Melrose with that shit, but that's probably not what he would have wanted. You know what I'm saying?

He probably had been like, so the fact that he was still there, he's still accessible to a lot of people who still caught up in the bullshit is the reason why he don't have his life today. But he was doing him and his brother, baby Sandy, he was doing incredible shit to show, by leading by example,

it would be like, yo, we can build up our own communities as well. We don't got to run from our communities when we make a few dollars. But now you look at it, like, it's like keeping it real. Like, if P&B Rock would not

went to chicken and waffles in the hood and say, hey, let's go to fucking this bougie spot where we're eating caviar pancakes. He'd probably be. be alive. Yeah, but he also looked like Nipsey, his death made his music even more popular. It blew up.

Pop Smoke all that. To Pop, Pop, Pop, Spoke, Biggie. But Pop blew up for who? Who benefits off it? That's true. The label. The label? Yeah, the label. So the label was starting to put life insurance on people, and people didn't even realize it. It got to the point they were putting life insurance

on artists for real, like, oh, you're a gangster rapper? Put some life insurance on. I mean, the record deal offered. a million bucks to put up a little dirk or whatever. See what I'm saying? You know why? You can come home and make more money and make more music. Yeah.

And I mean, from a business standpoint, they're like, this guy was the cash cow. He was the... And what I don't understand is dirt, bro. Dirk's father that did all that time. Like, big Dirk been through everything that his son could imagine. Like, how do you let yourself get caught up? And Dirk been around for it.

while. Like, I got a platform called Hip-Up My Way. We interview Dirk. We interview, what's this kid named from Florida? He's another one who gets, he'd be getting caught up in a lot of shit. Young and age, they killed that kid, Julio Fulio. These kids be on their way to make look at Young Dolf. Young Dolf was fucking a superstar. He goes to get cookies in Memphis and dudes shoot him with a fucking machine gun. Like, this is real. These guys, like, this is GTA for real. Like, this is Ed.

And I'm like, the thing about I don't like about it, where's the blowback? Where's the pushback from the, like, influential people in our community? Why Michael Jordan don't speak up about this? Why Oprah don't sit down and be like, this shit is out of control? Where are the influencer? What we call people who got a lot of followers? Influences, right? So where are these people who been had followers before followers were followers?

because we know they have influence. They don't speak up. They don't say a goddamn thing about none of this shit. We've never heard none of them influence of Tyler Perry, none of them, they don't come out and say, yo, what the fuck is going on with the youth in the black community? Because if they speak up, somebody's going to listen because they generate a lot of wealth.

They generate a lot of money. At the end of the day, everything's about money. Somebody going to say, all right, we got to stop playing. If they say, look, we got an MBA guy. All of these shit, nobody speaks up. It's fucking sad because we're left with no voice to say no leadership. Whatever your thing. It could be anything.

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I guess it depends. I mean, there's different voices. You know, you have like Obama. Obama's the ex-president. You can't. People look up to him, though. But he's not. He doesn't, he never really was representing the black community.

He just having a black man. I mean, black community, me, the black neighborhoods. Like people where all this shit is happening that. And he's from Chicago. How many, you pull up a speech where Obama's denouncing all of these gang violence in Chicago. Like, as the president, to me, a real president could have shut that shit down in two days. In two days. I guarantee if there was a law, you get caught with a gun, you get life.

It would be way more or less shootings. I think you need someone that actually comes from that, that is influential. You're right. You know, like someone, I mean, I'm sure like 50 cents. could be that kind of voice too. He could, but that's not what he chooses to do. 50, and if you know 50, he's the antithesis. He's the opposite.

He's going to egg it on. He's going to do the opposite. He wants more of a bullshit. You know what I'm saying? And that's, it made him a fortune. But so at the end of the day, we got to ask ourselves, like, is there, you ever watch wrestling growing up? Mm-mm. So when I was growing up, there was a wrestler called Ted DiBiasey.

W.E. His name was the million dollar man. And his whole thing was everybody got a price for the million dollar man. Like I could, I could money would make, I could make anybody do anything

with this money. And that was his gimmick, but, and as a kid you're looking at it, you're like, oh, I guess that's his gimmick. But now as I grow up, I'm like, damn, he's kind of right. Like, people could be bought.

And you, people, like moral fiber kind of doesn't exist no more. Like integrity and like you can't, but there's no amount of money you can get me to fucking do something that's not. People could be bought so easily. And the sad part about our community is

you buy people that don't even understand their importance of money or even know what to do with money if they had it. You go to anybody out there doing crime. I'm trying to get this money, yo. I'm trying to get this money. I got to get my money up.

And they'd be like, all right, if I gave you a million dollars today, what would you do with it? They don't have an answer. They're not going to say, I'm going to invest. I'm going to diversify my portfolio. I'm going to put it there.

I'm going to put some stock. They don't even know what the stock exchange is. They don't even know how that shit operates. Know what they're going to go do by a fucking chain and a fucking Mercedes? He's like, look, I made it, motherfucker. And the person is selling it to you, like, you fucking idiot.

That's what we're going to. That's what we've been programmed to do because nobody's giving us financial literacy, especially not in music, especially not in hip hop. Nobody tells them, they just say get money. They don't tell you what to do with it.

Yo, get money, nigga, get money. Okay, so if I do get some money, what do I do with it? Shine, nigga, shine. You got a floss. They're like some Dave Chappelle. And shit is insane because

it's like, damn, we are a group of people with all this power, all these amazing people who come from Newark, New Jersey, and all of these new, all over the country, all these amazing black people to do amazing things. But without collectivism, it shit is just scattered and it's just a free fall. Tell everyone what you got going on now for you.

Oh, man. Now, now is, you know, I work with a lot of powerful people. Mike Seaman, my brother Akash, they have a Mars market is one of the, it's like the new way. the music business because streaming, everything is going on

with Drake with his lawsuit and the whole shit about streaming it's kind of like the jig is up. We understand it's botting. We understand people are paying, you know, if I could buy my own shit

and make it seem like 18 million people listen to it and it turns into ad dollars, then I'm going to do it. So it's business. But now it's kind of like for a real artist who really wants people

to really know their music and they care about music. A lot of that shit is getting exposed. And these artists have been being pimp for so many years. So there's Mars markets. Remember this, Mars. Mars is going to be the biggest thing in music. So now it's kind of like gives an opportunity for an artist

to really put his brand on not an album, not a song, but him as a brand on the stock market. So let's say you say, okay, Drake is on Mars. How much is the stock in Drake? Drake is $45 a share. Drake got a new album coming out. I think he's going to blow up. I want to buy some shares in Drake.

For real, they went through every, they spent a lot of, a lot of time and money building his company, which they signed KSI. KSI, they gave KSI check that I couldn't believe. And KSai had one song, but he's a brand, people buying to his brand. So if I believe KSI is going to, his next song is going to be a hit, let's say KSI is going to put that album. Or, and he got to fight.

He's going to fight Logan Paul. So if it's his stock almost almost like an IPO on a real company, is this stock going to rise or fall? Do I sell my stock in KSI or do I keep it? So they really have a legit company that's going to be on a real stock exchange where artists can really sign up and really put there. Has nothing to do with their record deal. It has to do it. It has to do with their likeness, which is genius, which I think is the future of the music business

because the artist has always been raped and pillaged for so long. Now, the labels are, it's disrupting at its finest. And also I'm working with Mike Seaman on Evermore Arcade to where they build video games for artists. Like, for instance, me, I don't have nothing, so my games, is a trivia. I like music. So I'm like, hey, music, my way trivia,

build me again. But we're working with a couple people. I don't want to say now before the ink is dry. But the whole point is these guys understand the oldest is about eyeballs. If you can get people to watch you,

it's like rumple-stil-skinned. You turn views into money. Views is money. You know that. You're in this business. if you can get a video that's going to get 100 million views, somebody's going to pay you to say, if you get 100 million eyeballs on anything,

so when you come from that, ever more games, it's like an arcade, it's an online arcade. You can go there and play games. If you're willing to sit through an attitude, you literally make real money. And it's really for like under,

underpoverished countries to where there's a kid in some third world country who has an iPhone who probably can't feed his family. but he could download Evermore Arcade because it's over there and just sit there and play games and literally make money.

I don't know how the banking system would be set up but if it's set up out there I thought it was like too good to be true so I downloaded it myself and started playing a game

and I made like $14 in a couple hours I'm like yo imagine if I needed this money imagine if somebody I needed to go grocery shopping and I'm like fuck it I'm just going to spend the next 20 hours

playing this shit until I got $150 to go feed my kid. And I don't got to put up nothing. It'll just play a... It would be like if we got paid to play Candy Crush. I see people pay Candy Crush all day. They don't make a penny, bro. You know what I'm saying?

But if I was getting paid to play candy, I'm like, you guys who love these games. So they built it. And he comes from advertising. He built Digital Remedy. He's one of the smartest guys ever met. And so I've been working with him for like 15 years. We did music my way, hip-hop my way.

I got an app, Music, My Way, you go download for, it's for up and coming artists. I put SoundCloud, Tinder, not just mine, I'm going to say mine. I'm like a brand ambassador, so I'm allowed to say it's mine. I'm not the owner of it, but, you know, so it's like for up and coming artists, and the reason why I love it My Way, the music My Way, is because I always did music my way, and it worked. I believe being original and being unique stands out way more than being a clone or, oh, oh shit, they got Drake, we got Flake.

They got Cardi B. We got Cardi Z. She's Dominican and she twarks too, but it's a little different. And that's what's going on. The artistry and music is what's fucking it up. And I understand because we've got the World Wide Web and people see you make Celsius.

They're going to be like, hey, a new energy drink. That's why all of these are baby Red Bulls. Remember there was only one red, one energy drink? And then monster. Then monster game. And now there's a fucking 10,000. There's a new one that pops up every day. It's crazy.

It's money because if I see you make $100 million, I go, damn, even if I make 5% of that, I just made $5 million, look, then? Even if 5% of what he does, brings me $5 million. But if you go out there and if you, you know, use this, shit, you might create the next thing. What advice would you give your teenage self if you could sit across from him?

If I could sit across from my teenage self, I would tell myself, Um, persevere, man. Like, never give up on nothing. I was chubby when I went to jail. I was chubby my whole life growing up. And I remember seeing this dude with mad muscles. And I say, yo, I want muscles.

And I went over to this big fucking criminal. I'm like, yo, I want to work out. You're like, you're fat ass out of you. Get your little fat ass out of here. I'm like, nah, I'm serious. I want to work out. He's like, you won't work out. The shit ain't no joke.

Come out here tomorrow. I'm going to see if you're serious. I came out there to the point where I was throwing up because my body was in red. And I was a Harley doing. I was like, my body was like something new for me. But as I kept going, I started to see results. I went from fat to having a gallon to two pack to a three pack to where I was looking like a fucking Greek goddess to where my mother used to be like, yo, stop working. I used to send my mother picture.

She's like, you look like you cut somebody, you put your head on somebody's body. She was like, yo, this doesn't look good to me. Like, you're bugging out. But I've seen how hard work always breeds results in consistency. So if I could talk to my teenage stuff right now, I'd be like, whatever you're doing, and I think I kind of did that, be persistent.

Don't give up because consistency is the key. If you drop somebody off in the jungle right now, never been in the jungle, and come back in four months, they might be swinging from trees, bro. They're going to understand their surroundings. They're going to come back to a whole new, if they survive it,

they're going to be a whole new person. And they're going to adapt to their surroundings. And I've done it in prison. I've done it in a music business. I've done it in boardrooms. And I would just tell myself, you know, be consistent. Well, Sagat and I appreciate you coming on the show today, man.

I thank you. Oh, man, it's been great, man. Yeah, you're the best, Man, I made a new friend. And I'm glad you're local, man. Normally all the guys that come are so far, you know? Oh, man. You know what?

I think we should do more because I looked around here and I'm seeing you got this beautiful space. And I know it's Connecticut. Don't sleep on Connecticut. I'm telling y'all, don't sleep on Connecticut because Connecticut is the best kept secret on the East Coast. I tell everybody that. Like I said, I get mad when I see somebody from New York and Connecticut. Like, who told you about this? Don't tell nobody.

Yeah, don't blow it up because I don't want everybody here like New Jersey. Man, this is amazing. You know, got a beautiful facility, man. Thank you for your time. And I appreciate it, man. I appreciate you, man. Yes, sir.