Locked In with Ian Bick - SURVIVING 10 Years In VIOLENT Federal PRISONS | Mykal Hall

Episode Date: July 16, 2023

After selling guns to undercover agents and going on the run, teenager Mykal Hall is sentenced to 10 years in the federal prison system. In this episode we dive into the violence that occurs in some of America's roughest prisons, what Mykal had to do in order to survive a 10 year prison sentence and how he was able to turn it all around after losing a decade of his life. Connect with Mykal Hall:https://instagram.com/therealbroaddayboom?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100093901632076&mibextid=LQQJ4dhttps://music.apple.com/us/artist/broadday-boom/1682348714https://instagram.com/foa_tim?igshid=MmIzYWVlNDQ5Yg==Connect with Ian Bick:www.ianbick.comJoin our membership program to get early access to interviews, behind-the-scenes photos & more: https://www.youtube.com/@ianbickCT/me...00:00 Intro01:03 Childhood 07:04 Start of Trouble 12:17-Caught by the feds/ Went on the run23:16 Sent to FDC Philadelphia24:20 Court case and Firing his lawyer29:41 Being a new father in jail and relationship with his baby's mother31:46 First days in Lee County Prison 38:49 Inmates versus Guards / Interaction with people sentenced to life39:50 Interactions with people sentenced to life49:16 Con air51:54 Currency in prison 53:10 Gambling 53:41 K2 55:14 Prison hustle59:23 Hardest thing about prison 1:04:16 Fighting CO’s1:07:14 Razors in prison1:08:36 Regrets in Prison/Feeling institutionalized 1:10:01 Adjusting to life after prison 1:14:15 What to tell your younger self Powered by Q29 Productions, LLC Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com/Subscribe to our membership program on YouTube to get early access to interviews, see behind the scenes photos & more:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvVklIft6DMelVW18M0oBw/joinPowered by Q29 Productions, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt. Keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk by real California farm families. Welcome. It's only getting every customer's order right. It's only a point-of-sale system connected by Spectrum fiber-powered business internet, helping you track hundreds of secure transactions. And it's all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based customer support and local technicians. It's only everything. Get business internet advantage free, forever, when you get four mobile lines from Spectrum. Visit Spectrum.com slash free for life to find out how. Restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas. Welcome back to Locked in with Ian Bick. This week's episode, really, really, really interesting because we are focusing on federal prison

penitentiaries. I interview Michael Hall and how he got a 10-year federal prison sentence and how he spent his time going to different federal penitentiaries and medium federal security prisons throughout the United States. In this episode, we dive into his upbringing the crimes that led him to the 10-year sentence and how he navigated the federal prison system. Hope you guys sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode. And please, please, please do us a favor. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcast from. It helps boost our show and get it out to more people. I'm your host Ian Bick, and thank you guys again for tuning in to my podcast, Locked in. Hall, welcome to the show, man. Yes, sir. I love the energy, bro. You're very, you know, for a guy that just did 10 years in prison, you're, you're

upbeat, you're excited, you know, ready to share your story. That's great. I'm like this every day, bro. What was your inspiration for coming on the show today? I got to ask. I was watching, I was watching you. I watched it. He sent it to me and then I started watching it.

Hold on my bat. Not right now. Yeah. So he sent me your own, your Instagram and sent me like your videos and stuff. like that, so I started watching. And I'm listening to the dude's story. I'm like, yeah, that's right, yeah, that's right. That happens. You get what I'm saying? And I was interested, so I'm like, shoot, I would love to come up there and, you know, give me my story. Yeah, I'm glad we can make it happen and excited to jump into your story. Where are you from? What's your childhood like?

I'm from Neptune, New Jersey. Neptune. Yeah. That sounds like a whole different planet. Yeah, exactly. That's what they call it, the planet. Yeah, I'm from Neptune, New Jersey, man. And, you know, I grew up not like most people, but, you know, some people have it hard. Some people have it good. I grew up like in between hard, good, you know what I'm saying? It goes both ways. I can't just say like I had it hard my whole life. You know what I'm saying?

I made my choices. What did your parents do for work? Right now my mom worked at like some eye doctor place. She's like a secretary at an eye doctor place. My father in prison. He'd been in jail all the time. While you're growing up, he was in prison. Yeah, he in jail right now.

Oh, wow. He always did it. Was that hard? for you as a kid? Yeah, because I don't got a father. You know what I'm saying? So I got older cousins and stuff like that that's basically misleading me, honestly.

What about siblings? Did you have siblings? Yeah, I got older sister. I got three sisters and a brother. Older brother or younger? Younger brother. So were you like that kind of like the father figure of the family, the role model?

No, because he grew up in North. He didn't grow up where I was at, so he never really been too much around me. Like right now, my little brother is 305 years in jail right now. Oh, wow. So the whole, you've come from a family of dad's in prison.

You end up going to prison and brothers. Yeah, it's regular. That's just, and you're calling that regular. That's like a whole different life. Yeah, sad to say. Did you know, like, at a young age that your dad was in prison? Yeah. That was put on you very early on.

Yeah. What are your, like, thoughts and feelings about that at that point? At that point, I didn't understand it because I was young. I didn't understand why he was going to jail, what he was going to jail for. I just know he'll come home. Then he'd go back to jail for some years, like five years. He'd come home. I'm like, so I never kind of figured it to like, really 14, 15, I started figuring out

what jail was. Like, I knew what jail was going to jail, street rules, stuff like that. Like, I started being what was going on. Were you visiting him as a child in prison? Yeah, I'm visiting him sometimes when he was down base lot. And does that, like, motivate you to not want to go to prison at that age? Yeah. Was that scary?

That's the sad part. It wasn't even scary. It was like, it didn't even feel like nothing. It just felt like I was going to see my dad. Wow. So that didn't deter you at all from any from the path you were going to follow. Nah, honestly, no. I'm just like my father, honestly.

Just I'm more not repreditive like him. He goes back to jail. I'm not going back to jail. I'm not going back to jail. So you guys barely had a relationship growing up, even with the visits and everything like that. Yeah, we didn't have too much of a relationship until he came home right before I caught my fed case. What kind of crimes was he in prison for? All drugs, every time.

And same thing with your brother? No, my brother locked up for a murder and stealing cars, like a lot of car thefts. Wow. Now, the neighborhood you're growing up in, violent, good, what kind of neighborhood is it? It goes both ways, but like, because Neptune and Asbury, it goes like, it's like I could step across the street

and I'm in Nazbury, but I could step right back across the street and I'm in Neptune. And I grew up in Nazbury. Like, I was raised in a village, Sewell Avenue, all those places, but I went to school in Neptune. and then I stayed at my grandma's in Neptune. So I was always back and forth. But Neptune got an up the hill part of it where it's very nice.

Where now you won't consider, no, the trenches. They won't consider you in the trenches no more. Was your mom trying to keep you away from the same path that your father took? My mom, honestly, she raised me a good kid. I ain't a lot. I was always a good kid. I'm always been a good person. I've never been negative or this type of, like, I don't just come off as an asshole to everybody.

Like I'm a good-spirited person. When I walk in the room, it's energy every time. And it's always good energy. I don't never give out bad energy. So I get that from my mother. But my mother wasn't fully in my life. I was raised by my grandmother, rest of peace. My grandmother was a very hard person, very hard.

And do you think that affected the path you took, your grandmother raising you? Yeah, because my grandma kicked me out at a young age. So that right there would make me go straight to the streets. Now I'm selling drugs in front of corner stalls. I'm doing all this and doing all that. because she was just a hard person. How old were you when she kicked you out?

I was 16, then I came back. Why do you get kicked out? I just, it's always been hard for me to follow rules. I've been, I've never liked rules. I'm just going to be honest right now. I don't like rules. Even in prison, I don't like rules. I don't like the rules.

And she always had strict rules for no reason that she didn't follow herself. So it's like, I never respected the rules. And she just like, all right, well, get the fuck out of here. Isn't it interesting that the punishment of that led you into a way worse life. Yeah. Like if someone had just like stuck with you and just like held you there and just like kept

you at home, it may have turned out differently. That's why I would never kick my son out. Like, you know, because I know that can lead you to that. Yeah. But we have to go through it sometimes to figure that out. Yeah. I feel like because if I never went through it, like if I never went to prison and experience, would it be like how your friends act when you go to prison, how the girls that you

was dealing with act when you go to prison, just everybody in life, period, how you Your life stops and theirs don't. Yeah. And the same people that you love, be the same people that have turned your back when you do when you dare. That's some real shit right there. So you get kicked out. Where does this life of crime start?

What happens? Like, what's the first crime you ever commit? We had jumped a Mexican. I remember when we did have 16. You're fresh kicked out. We jumped, we jumped the Mexican. Why? What's the logic?

We was just drunk coming back from a party, walking back from a party, and they're just doing dumb shit. But that's like out of character for you because you know you're a good kid and you just do it. Yeah, I was just mad. You were mad at the world.

Yeah, my grandma kicked me out. Yeah, I was just terrible. And then we were just drunk and turked up. Are you hanging out with a bad group of kids too? At that time? Yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

We was demons. Really? Yeah, out and about going to all the parties just fucking the parties up for no reason. When you were doing these types of things, do you ever think in your mind, like, I know I'm a good person and like this isn't what I want to do, but I'm doing it to kind of fit in or like what's a mindset?

Honestly, I wanted to do it. I ain't go a lot to it. It was just like I just like adapted to what was going on. I just adapted to it. Like, I just adapted. Do you finish high school? No. So you dropped out.

Yeah, I started going to school like 11th summer, 11 grade summer. 12th grade I was still going, but I'm leaving. Where are you living? At that time. Yeah. Shoot, at my friend's house stand at his house. that house. Then I was staying at my friend Malcolm house. He ended up got killed right in front of me. Man, so you started off as like your mom was trying to keep you guys all together and like this

stable child for the most part and it just unraveled very quickly. Yeah. What do you, what would you say is like the most traumatic thing that happened to you? Like before even getting arrested during your, your early years. That was when my friend Malcolm died. He got killed right in front of me. Stab right in his chest, bled out, died of their moms. Really? And what was going through your mind when this happened. One, I'm sorry for your loss that that happened, but what was the mindset? What were you feeling? What were you thinking? At that time, every time I think about it, it made me want to cry. Because at that time, I couldn't process what was all going on at that time I couldn't process it. I couldn't think if he was really dying or not. I didn't know. I just

know that he was bleeding so much and he's still talking hell of shit. This is what made me mad because he still talking hell of shit as he died. And it was just like, it was blowing my shit. So he ended up dying, you know. Did that just make you bitter, like angry? And getting into a whole other, a way worse person. And you think if that never happened, you wouldn't have traveled down the path that you went on? I can't say that. I was still already on that path. I was already on that path. It's just that even enhanced it. That enhanced it faster. I can't imagine losing someone that close to you in your own arms and being in that environment. That's like my little brother. Like, I was with him every single day. Like,

every single day, if you don't see me, you see Malcolm. He's with me all day. Was there anyone to be there for you, like in that moment, like afterwards, a support system, anyone trying to help teachers, friends, family? My girlfriend, my girlfriend was there at that time. My mom was too. He was. A lot of people still there. Like, my girlfriend at that time, who is the mother of my child now, she was there for me.

It was a couple people that was there for me. And it still wasn't enough to, like, kind of straighten things out for you. No, because I felt like it was my fault. You know, I felt like it was my fault. I felt like I could control the situation to where we could have just left before it happened. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I couldn't control the situation.

And his mom blamed me, so it made me even more like I was going through a dark time at that time. Xanax was my thing. Now, what year is this? What year are you growing up in? At this time, this was 2011, 2012. 2011, 2012. So I'm a sophomore in high school. So we're about the same age, give or take.

So what happens next after your friend passes away in your arms? Where does the, how does it spiral because you're what, 16, right? At that time? Yeah. So by 19, you're facing 10 years in prison. So what happens in those three years? It was a lot. I got shot.

You got shot? Yeah, I got shot. And where did you get shot? I got shot down here, like my leg down here. And I got shot through my thigh. Wow. Mm-hmm. In my artery.

And this is because of drug dealing? I got, it's just some street stuff. You know what I'm saying? Just some in the way street stuff, honestly, which really didn't matter. Are you in gangs or anything? Or how, what's going on? Me, I'm just a money dude. I like to get to the money.

I like to, you know what I like to be around, chill with females. I'll just be chilling. So you're one of those like hot-headed young kids that are just like all over the place. And I got a name. Everybody knows me. Everybody know me. What were they calling you back then? They called me boom.

Boom back then. And where does that come? from where is that stem from it take this true story y'all true story this come from right we used to be in the mall back in the day and there used to be a group of us and we used to be around like just trying to scare people like yell behind them and stuff like that and i used to have a real little voice back then so i tried to scare the people like boom like that and everybody just started clown to me little ass voice uh they start going to let me start going on and that's how i got my name boom honestly okay so they're calling you boom you're doing all this what goes down the day that you're

you, that affects the rest of your life forever. I was, I would really, man, I was, a lot of my friends was dying. I lost a lot of my friends. I lost a lot of people, like, at a young age, like, prison, like, at 13, I'm losing my friends. So that was already, like, basically stirring the pot. Let's say that.

It was just already stirring the pot for madness for me. And it's what led to a lot of things. And what would you say was, like, the ultimate thing? it led to? It led to me going to jail to federal prison. And how does that happen?

How do you get roped up in a federal indictment as a teenager? Rich, I get wrapped up having a dude that was my man's like this. Just dealing with him. He'd come home,

I guess he got locked up for a robbery or something like that. So he'd get locked up for the robbery. The whole time the robbery he's trying to go do was a sting with the feds. He tries to go rob somebody for like some money

or something like like that and some coat and end up being the feds. So he got lined up by the feds and then start working for the feds and then lined me up, like trying to get me buy guns and stuff like that. He's the same age as you. He was two years older than me. So this is a bunch of teenagers. So do it all this crime and the feds are involved.

Yeah. And he tried to, he started wearing a wire on me. As I'm helping, I'm just being a good dude. I don't even sell guns. I'm just taking them to A to B. I'm just, all, you need some guns. I know who got them. You get what I'm saying?

And I'm taking it to him. And the feds orchestrated this whole thing. Yeah, with him, yeah, as he's wearing the wire. So they gave him the guns to sell? No, they gave him the money to come by the guns from me. And you had the guns. Yeah. But you weren't even in the gun business.

You were just like whatever. Helping him out. And trying to make some money. I ain't even make no money from it. Really? Yeah, I wasn't even making no money from it. I'm helping one person and helping him. And this was your man.

This is my best. You guys were closed for years. And he did. And then one day, this is how I figured out he was working. when he had a wire on him. He came over and my man's had sold him a gun that was broke. And he called back and said that like,

hey man, the guns was good. Da-da-da-da-da. And yo, I'm going to try to see you if I can get some more money and come see you again. And he hung up. And I'm like, ain't nobody in their right mind ain't going to buy something that's broken or anything messed up with what they wanted to buy

and not call you back and be mad about. And that's what it triggered. to let me know he's working with the feds. He got to be working with some type of police. I didn't know the feds at that time. I was just like, he working with the police. But at that point, it's too late. You already made the buys and the cells.

A lot of times, eight different firearms are already been sold by that time. So what are you thinking? Are you fucked? Are you trying to run? What's your mindset? This is what I knew that at that time I had no guidance.

I know he was working with the fed, y'all. And then I'd make up a grand plot to rob him. Your plot, this is what you. You were like, this guy's a federal informant, my best friend, and I'm going to rob him. At all the things. So how does this go down? Man, this has to be a very stupid day about life. Sorry, I'm going to give you.

This is a very stupid day. As I really think about it, I chose to rob him. Don't want that he's working with the police. What was I thinking? Drugs, leave him alone, y'all. Here you go right here. Leave Xanax. Leave it alone.

Do not have you taken clear. You're on drugs while you're doing this. You're on Xanax. Oh, my God. Zanex heavy. Okay. Xanax and lean, Perkinses, all that shit is,

was my choice of drugs at that time. Okay, so you're on the drugs. What do you do? So, boom. So I'm like, oh, man, he's working with the feds. So I'm like, you know what? I know what I'm about to do? I'm about to sell him some fake guns.

You get what I'm saying? Try to get them for the money like that. That's what I try to do. So I put actual concrete bricks in a laundry bag. No cap. I put actual concrete bricks in a laundry bag and I walked them out as I'm meeting them and I put them in the trunk.

He's like, I'm trying to look at him real quick. So I'm like, oh, no, you can't look at him. You can't look at him. I was like, his camera's there, his cameras there. See, I've tried to scare about lying. He's like, no, I got to look at him. So as he saying he wants to look at him, my co-defendant come walking up.

As he come walking up, he like, I'm like, hey, yo, you just give the money to him, you get what I'm saying? And he the one with him, you get him what I'm saying? You get the bread to him taste it. Like, that's how it was. You're going to say, when I tried to do that, he wanted to go look at him after that. He still wanted to look at him and what sideways. They put him in the trunk, held him in the trunk. He was with a federal agent.

The federal agent tried to get out the car and like, hey, hey, hey, they ended up robbing him too. The federal agents? Yeah. Your boys robbed the federal agent. Yeah. So do they swarm the place or what happens? You guys get away? What goes down next?

Oh, we made them get back in the car. Yeah. They got out of there, scared it. would have seen the video of like him, he was crying, he was going crazy. I'm talking about you, you'd have thought he got shot. He, I'm telling you, they put a 45-Calum. I'm like, how he don't know gut it was. He didn't even see the guy. That's how good it was. That's how he was. I can't believe you guys robbed the federal agent. Yeah, right after. As soon as we was robbing him, he got off the car, we robbed him too. Got 10,000 off him, 10,000 off him. You knew it was a

federal agent? No, we didn't know that was federal agent. We thought that was his, he said it was like his girlfriend cousin or something like that. Had you have been sober, would you have ever, went to that deal. No. You would have been smarter and pulled away. Yeah, no. I would probably already

tried to go somewhere else or the police go on me. All right. So how long is it take for them to wrap you up? When do they like kick down your door or arrest you? They locked up

my Cody the next day. They raided them? No. He's so... This is how smart my Cody is. After he does that, he comes back on the block

the next day. The police come and get him. Lock him off as a weed or something like that and let him go. came back as soon as he came back to the block they came back around and locked him up next thing i know i got a call saying that he was going to trenton to court so he's going to triton to court for court so i'm trying to think fuck is he going to trot in the court why was he going to trin to court and then that's

when they said it oh yeah they said that the feds he got locked up by the feds i'm like oh no so i ran it to lakewood i went to my sister house of lakewood that we just had brought we go to my sister house in Lakewood, he locked up, and they're going to my mom job. They kicked down my apartment that we already had down there in the little projects we were staying at where we used to be at. They kicked in that house. They're looking for me like crazy. They're going to my mom job every day. I'm talking about so much that my mom can't go to sleep. Like, she's crying insanely. Like, she's calling me, I just can't take it no more. Got me ready to turn myself in. I don't never want to turn myself in. Because you know it's coming. You know what you're facing at this point.

I'm about the mother about child. She's pregnant. I'm about to get ready to have a son. It was just, it was a lot going on. Oh, my gosh. That was like one of the stressful moments ever right there. How long are you on the run for before they get you? Just a month.

Oh, so you do make it a whole month? I made the whole month. Is that, is that like mentally exhausting being on the run from the FBI? Oh, my God. It's very exhausted because you've got to stay up all day, all night. I'm at the window looking, try to see. So when they finally came, it was like a relief kind of. I ain't going to lie.

It's like a relief. I'm sitting out the window. I woke him up one. And I see a green tank. I swear the guy is a green tank with a water holes on the front. I stood up like, oh, my God. I tabbed a little cousin and a little saying. I'm like, you see that?

He's like, oh, we're about to run. I'm like, I'm not running no more. I'm just tired. I'm tired. I was done. My Bob called me every night crying. I couldn't do it no more. So they came out.

You already know, they pull up. They got the tank looking shit. They got 12 black tie holes. They got Lakewood Police Department. They got the state troopers. I swear to God, they hop out the, when I cut, They, when the thing wrote up on something to the lawn, it said, Residents in 181, Lynn Court, come out with your hands up now.

I swear to God, come out with my hands up. I swear to God it was like a movie or swat or some shit like that. When they jumped out the car, they jumped out the car with the guns that would be, the AR-15s or whatever fuck them just was, they like, get down asshole, get down asshole. How did they find you? To this day, I don't know. Really? I don't know.

Were you like using burner phones or are you playing it safe, everything like that? Yeah, because, yeah, it was a burner phones. Yeah, all my phones I used was burner phones. Not even trying to play a safe, though. That's the funny part. It's just at that time, that's what we sold drugs off already, burn the phone. And you're 19 years old. Yeah.

Dude, I just, like, want to give you a hug, man. You experienced all this trauma at, like, a young age, people dying around you, getting kicked out of your house, and then this. Yeah. That's so much. Yeah. And it must have taken you years to, like, process all this and sit through it. I mean, like, I don't think you probably weren't as well.

spoken and mature about the situation back then to really analyze this. No. But now you are, you're able to analyze it and talk about it and stuff. But that's just so much in like this small period of time. Yeah. So they arrest you, they drag you out and where do they bring you? Oh, they took me to Red Bank, New Jersey. They bring me to Red Bank, New Jersey like their little headquarters.

Yeah, they bring me in there. Yeah, you get 25 years. We got this sell. We got this gun. We got this. But we know. you didn't sell the guns. We know you was taking it somewhere.

Would you take her to? I said, man, y'all going to take me to the county right now. Oh, yeah. When you're going to, they just started slapping more stuff down. Like, I don't care. I can slap down the world. Like, take me to the county. I don't got nothing to say to y'all.

So you knew right off the bat you weren't snitching or taking a deal. Ain't no question. No, never. Where does that mentality come from? Is that just how you're raised or the streets? Yeah, my grandma raised me like that. Like, you tell, if we come and tell her something, she's going to smack us about it.

So what's your opinion of guys, that are in your position that do end up snitching and that are part of that life that are raised your way but end up folding like what's your thoughts on that like your best friend that's snitched on you like just don't fold if you i feel like if you knew what you was doing literally if you was committing these crimes and you was doing this and doing that in the streets as a man just taking time because you was doing it it's like with people like i don't understand this a person to really shoot somebody right and risk the trial of all these people saying they saw him shoot him and all and he'll really go to trial no one in his heart he shot the

person knowing he guilty yeah like I feel like in that such is in that kind of situation I'm not wishing you to go to jail but you like bro I don't if I was you guilty I'm guilty of it let me get my time out the way I'm not about to risk this in trial and then get 30 years knowing I did it I think some people do go to trial though because they hold on the hope that something could happen and then they get 100 years they be thinking like damn they just gave me 100 years for this no you did it it's like I don't understand you knew you did that I would have took my little plea did my time they came home like what was your first phone call with your mom like oh man so that's got to be heart breaking she's distraught she's what do you say it because you're sober by this point right yeah so what are you

saying to her I'm just like Bob man I don't know what's going on like I got the defense ain't telling me nothing I'm just waiting to go to court so now at this point I got jailhouse lawyers in my head and what are the Hill House lawyers say it. Yeah, can you explain what happens when you go to a county and all the other inmates are trying to help you? Oh, man. And they took me to FDC Philadelphia. This is where...

I was at Philadelphia, too. I did a month there. I was at 6 South. They took me to FDC Philadelphia. First day they said to you when you walk in FDC, Philly, they say, welcome to Teledophia. Right there, I started saying, you know what? My name is Mike. Nobody, my day, boom.

And everyone was just trying to give you advice about your case. Yeah, and I felt like something. Some people were trying to jump on my case, though. I felt like some people were trying to talk to me, trying to really jump on my case. Honestly, yeah, hell, yeah. What year is it that you get there to FDC, Philadelphia? 2013. 2013.

And your first meeting with your lawyer, what does he say to you? And do you have a public defender or a paid lawyer? No, I had a public defender. And what does he say to you? My public defender just was like, he made me wave off all my rights. I could have got bond. He made me rave off my rights to my bond. What?

I don't know. But I think at that time. Were they really going to let you out? though. I mean, you were on the run for a month. And at that time, Fed's wasn't giving no bonds. Like now, like, feds would let you out on a bracelet. Back then, it was, again, not on no bracelet unless you was telling. COVID changed a lot, too. Yeah, it changed a lot. And yeah, so I don't know. I was praying. You get him, I had a house. My grandma was going to put the house up for me to get out. I don't know. But he waived my rights. And at that time, I was mad at him. But when I figured out what he did, but then I thought about it like now, I was happy because. Accounted towards your sentence. Yeah, I stayed in. And if I would have been in,

And now it wouldn't account it. And I'd have been so mad to do all them years more. Yeah, I think about that sometimes to like the two years I was out. It would have saved me so much stress and gave me some peace if I had just, if I knew I was going to get that. Because you would have been already into the bid. Yeah. But we also don't know. We don't at the time when we're going through it.

Yeah. How long are you in holding for a detention center before you're actually take a deal and sign a deal? Uh, I was, like, nine months, ten months, sent out. I finally took my plea and. You took the first offer that gave. you? Nah, I didn't ever even, this stuff, you might as well say it was the first off, because they never, my first lawyer, I fired him because he used to speak of a plea that he never will bring to me. Like, right. So in my head, now I got the jailhouse lawyers, go to trial,

they ain't got nothing. Go to trial. Tell me. And I'm, oh, I'm like, I'm not going to go to trial. Man, they brug, they superseded indict me three times. They had three different superseding indictments for the same shit. I never. seen this in my life. The same charges, but broken down more. And it's all just over these gun sales. Exactly. But broken down more is that still charges. And are you hearing like what's going on with your co-defendant and with your friend that set you up at the time? Or are you shut off from the world? The friend that set me up never went to jail. Never. Never. Yeah, that's so dirty. That's how good he told. He probably still worked there. He probably in Nebraska. But my, and my Cody, he never told. He's the

He stood up. McCodee, he, good man. He never did nothing. But I didn't know what he was doing now because he was still in my county jail and they took me all the way to FTC Philly. Now, what's the process like when you're in prison and holding and you don't like your lawyer and you want to fire him? How does that work? Do you have to write to the judge or what do you do? Man, I wrote to the judge. You know what the judge told me? The judge told me, I'm sending these same letters that you're writing me down to your lawyer. You cannot write me letters about your lawyer saying that you want to fire your lawyer. You have to file a motion. with an ineffective assistant counsel or something like that and get him off your case. So I ended up telling my first lawyer like, man, I don't want you as my lawyer. Don't come back. I don't want you as a lawyer. And then he just filed his own motion like, all right, I'm getting off your case. And then they gave me even more dickhead. And that, but that's the one that gave you that got you a deal or something? The dickhead that they gave me.

And so how much time are you offered? They gave me 108 months. Which is equivalent to nine years. Nine years. And what are you thinking at that first deal? you like take it or do you want to what do you want? I'm like, hell, no, I'm not about taking nine years. I ain't died.

I felt like I ain't do that much. Yeah. Nine years. I'm like there. You didn't kill anyone. Yeah. He ain't get hurt. He didn't get smacked on no gun.

Nothing like that happened. Please. I felt like four years. Four years was. That's what you're thinking. Four years is fair. Fair. So what does the lawyer say, no way?

What happens? Man, the lawyer came to me. He said, listen. Because I had a motion then where I kind of had. the feds around the balls pause i had them now i'm telling you i had them i had them i had with some type of motion where they didn't they didn't indict me within the 30 days they had so when this motion going on i guess the prosecutor go to him like listen if he don't go with it to him we'll give him a plea to five years boom just to the mandatory non 24c just to the non 24c itself

so i'm like all right nah i ain't going for that you know what i'm about to go through with it he like If you go through with it, I'm telling you now, if you lose, and I know you're going to lose, he said, I know you're going to lose. When you do lose, they're going to supersede you, and then your plea that you had is going to be more. And that's exactly what happened. He didn't lie. So that spooked you. Yeah.

No, it didn't spook me because I still went through with it. I still went through with my motion and lost, like he said. But you didn't go to trial. No, no, it was just the emotion that I had, that I had a real good motion in that I could have really just got the 60 months. and would have been home, but I did. And that's how I ended up getting a nine-year plea. So you could have just took the 60 months. Yeah, man.

Yeah. How'd that make you feel after you got hit with that nine? Like the biggest dickhead in the world. Yeah. But I also feel like you had to try. Yeah. When you're fighting for your life, you've got to try. But at that time, I wasn't believing what I believe in now.

I was guilty. I was guilty. I was guilty. I guess we always think there's like there's a better deal. There's a better, something to, be negotiated, you think there's a way out. I'm thinking about getting home and seeing my son that was just born. That's what I was thinking about.

So your son was just born at this time? Yeah. How does it feel to be locked up and not being able to see your newborn son? I seen him because they came up a visit, but not to be with him every day. It's very hard. It was very hard. Were you able to hold him in the visit? Yeah, yeah.

All right, so you could actually touch him and be with him. Yeah, he was like a little puppy in my hand. Are you close with your girlfriend at the time? Do you guys have a good relationship? Yeah, at that time. For a couple years. For a couple years. what does she think about what you did in your actions that landed you in prison?

Oh, she ain't care about that. She was just down for you. She was... She knew what I was into. At one point, she tried to act like she ain't know what I was into, but she knew what I was into. I kind of lied when I first met him. Was she, like, one of those real ones that was like she was going to ride with you either way? Oh, yeah, like most women would do when you first get locked up, don't worry, I'm going to be there.

I'm doing it day for day. Loss. Yeah, can you talk about that? Why that's a lie and why that differs? Because women, to even say that, how do you know what you're going to do in the next year, two years, three years? It's like for you to even think that you're going to predict the future, is you a bad motherfucker from to me? Because how you know? There are cases, though.

I met some guys, a woman rode with him for 10 years, like all the way religiously. She did that bid with him. My old had Mohammed from D.C. He did 43 years in federal prison. His wife was with him all day. His girl was with him that whole day. was back in that type of error though. No hall pass is nothing?

Oh, she probably did do something. I don't got shit. A girl go without sex for all of them. She is the best. Well, but the guy does it too, so I guess. Yeah, if the girl does it, ooh. Wow.

That's hard to believe. Yeah, so this girl abandoned you pretty much off the bat or a couple. She wrote a little bit. Yeah, she did three years with me. Three years? Yeah, she did three years. That's not terrible. You got to take the three.

I gave her first ever doing it. Three is a lot. bad. Three's a lot, man. To be young, too, because her mental, she was 17 at the time. Yeah, her mental maturity wasn't there. Nope. So I commend to her for that because that was hard to do. So you get this plea deal, you take it, judge sentences you, where do you go to prison? My first spot, Lee County. And what is Lee County for those that don't know? Lee County is in Jonesville, Virginia. Lee County is on top of a mountain. Lee County is a United States penitentiary. I'm talking about At this time, Lee County was okay.

It wasn't really like how it is now. Leek County at that time had good food. The yard was good. It wasn't too much stabbing. Killers, of course, in United States, penitentiaries that go on. But at this time, it was good. I was only a unit. I was chilling.

So a 19-year-old walks into one of the toughest prisons in America, penitentiary. I was 20 then. Yeah, 20. You're still young. How do you navigate? Like, what do you do? What is your, like, first few days like? Can you walk me through that?

Well, when you first get there, you know, everybody want to know where you're from. And it's crazy because when you walk in, like, if I was with a Spanish dude, I was with a white dude. I see the Spanish dude come in. All the Spanish dudes run to him. They're going to, I see a bag coming for him. He got sweatpants. He got everything coming to him. Same thing for the white dude.

When the black dude come in, you know what they said to be? Where are you from? I'm from Jersey. Oh, you're from Jersey? Oh, the Jersey dudes over there. Like, they wasn't. No, like, you know, now that you say that, it does, I do see that. Yeah, because the white guys bring a care package that the other guys bring. The only ones I would see was like the Muslims would bring like a care package. Oh yeah, they would. But it's just, I don't, it's something about like the black community that it's very aggressive right off the bat. Because you got to think, the whites and the Spanish, they didn't even X them where they was from yet. Yeah. They just brought them to bag. From the get go, they already asked where I'm from. Yeah. That's how much hatred was right there.

It's just like you said, it's just so much hatred with the blacks. It's crazy. So you tell them where you're from, what happens next? Oh, then they introduced me to where the Jersey dudes is and stuff like that. And that was that. I started, they like, yo, you got to get your paperwork. Own it all. Pay off your home.

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But when I was in FDC Philly, everybody's You got to get your docket sheet, your plea agreement, your PSI. They didn't care about none of that. Are you scared, like, to be 20 in a penitentiary? I ain't going to say I was scared, but I definitely was nervous. I was trying to fill it out because, like, I used to hear stories about the penitentiary in the holdings, but I've never been there, so I don't know. So I'm just hearing about all this killing going on.

So I am kind of not scared, but nervous. I'm trying to figure out what's going on, but I know I didn't tell. So I'm like, shoot, when I get my paperwork, I'm going to be all right. You know what I'm saying? And that's what happened. My paperwork came and I was all right. And when you mean all right, like, do they start taking care of you now? How does that work?

Well, they already give you the bag. They give you the speech. Don't not take this bag. If you are a rat, a child molester, a rapist or any, do not take this bag if you know you messed up. If you messed up, man, do not take this bag. Because if you take this bag and we find out you messed up, we're going to kill you. So they already give you the bag, a bad speech and all that. So now when my people, you're going to be a bag,

tapework come, they read it, do. Okay, he good. Now, on that note, though, guys do take the bag that are fucked up. What happens? What have you seen happen to these guys that take the bag? I seen a native dude get stabbed through his neck. I swear to God, I seen a native dude get stabbed through his neck. He didn't know where to run. He didn't know if he wanted to try to run out the door, run to the police. He just looking around because he was messed up. He was a sex offender. He was a sex offender. And he took the bag? Yeah, the natives don't play. I ain't going to allow. The natives don't play in the fed pants. And I've met a lot of native sex offenders, Not saying they're all sex offenders.

But there be some. There's a lot. And some of them are protected because they're native, but it comes to find out that they are. They'll find out through a guard or anything like that. This dude, they got something called like the native mob. Like they own little gang in a native culture.

And that's what the dude was. And they didn't play. They stabbed him through his neck. That was my first time ever seeing like blood squirt through people's neck. I thought he was like dead. I don't know if he died to this day. And you saw this whole thing go down. Yeah.

I see no. And Lee County has seen a lot of people get stabbed. And I broke a. do job there with a lock. That's how I got shipped out. You did. A lot. All right, we'll get to that point. But while you're in Lee County, what other violence are you seeing on like a day-to-day basis? People are fascinated with that aspect. Well, in the penitentiary, it's like you'd be locked down so much that as soon as you come out, something else happens. You get on what I'm saying? It's like, it's like a revolving door. As soon as something happened, we're going to lock down a week,

two weeks, three weeks. As soon as we come out, I swear, if it don't happen that day, it's going to happen that week a bus going to come in. Somebody was hot or somebody did this, somebody did that that to the last spot. Something's going to happen. So what would you say was the worst thing you've seen and then the longest lockdown because of that? I'm going to say the worst thing I see was when that riot happened between the, it really was, I guess, a DC dude got stabbed or the DC dude killed or stabbed up a black canned and Big Sandy at that time and it leaked over in Tilly County and we had a full race riot. It leaks over from another prison.

Right. And the whole race riot, Mexicans have never seen out like that. Mexicans come out to the child hall, all masked up. Wow. And just start taking off of all the black people. I'm talking about in the yard was a blood bath. And what happens? The prison gets locked down.

Are they like pepper spraying you guys? What goes down? Pepper spraying? This is what putting everybody in cuffs. The whole jail was on lockdown for two months. Two months. And what happens during a prison lockdown in the penitentiary? Oh, man.

You're in the cell for two days, then you come out, that one day to take your shower, and then you go back in, you're going to come back out after two more days like that. And who are you sold up with? You're one person or you better, if you ain't got to sell it, you ain't got to sell you, but you're going to be sold up with one of your people that's like from your car. So they won't put you with like someone that's someone else or like, is it, is it, was a race or is a location? How does that work with cellmates?

Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be really race and where you're from because you ain't going to see no, whites and black person in a room or no Mexican and black person in a room like you or Mexican, you hardly will see that. Like, they have to be in the same car and that has to be like, they told you you could do that. Yeah. It's not really going to see that.

Now, are there Chomo sex offenders walking these compounds? No, not them compounds. So, it's not good. Do some make it through accidentally? No. So they don't even put them on? I've seen some people that rat it that made it through the penitentiary, yes. Yeah.

Jimmy Hinchman, Jimmy Hitchman was on the yard, Jimmy Hitchman ran it. He's on the yard. And what happened in? Nothing. Jimmy Hitchman is a strong dude. You ain't going to do none than Jimmy Hinchman. Really? Wow. Now, prison guards, are they corrupt? Like, what kind of corruption are you seeing in these penitentiaries? I ain't going to say they corrupt because they ain't going to do nothing for you. But they definitely will watch you die. They will watch you die. They will watch the dude stab you up or you stab it. They will watch it. Are inmates attacking the guards? Yeah, that's regular. Really?

Yeah, I didn't see no. For what, though? Why? The guy's just doing his job. Shouldn't there be some type of respect level on that sense? Some COs don't got respect. So what was, like, give me a scenario? I see, shoot.

I see the CO get stabbed just by taking the dude's pen. He took a guy's pen. They took a guy's pen. In a disrespectful way. But the dude had life and he had that pen for 21 years. And he said that that pen he had, he used to restore it with ink. And that same pen is the, same pen he was writing his daughter for 21 years with if when you take that like that's his

favorite pain he really took that to the heart and he kills the cop or just stabs him yeah he killed the cop he killed the cop yeah and how long are you guys going lockdown after that that was like three months wow the cop just gets killed right there over the pen yeah i mean when you i guess when you're dealing with guys that have nothing to lose yeah they don't mean not that that that's nothing wow he go to 80x, do 10 years up 80X, come back out. And that's it. Did you get to interact with a lot of guys that had life? Yeah. And in the penitentiary, 85% of the yard got life. No, we can never like talk to these guys because they're, they're doing life. What's like the mindset of some of these guys that are they like accustomed to not ever coming out or do they hold on to hope?

All, all dudes with life really hold on to hope. I ain't a lot to you. All of them think they go And I pray they do. All of them thinking they had that someday somehow, some something's going to come through for them to go home and they're going to go home. And I pray they do. I really do. Even the guys that have done some bad shit, like murders, stuff like that. I feel like everybody could be forgiven as long as I can't forgive you if like you touched a kid or something like that.

Now that, I don't, I feel like you should never come home. If you did something or you just raped a woman and like really like that stuff, I feel like you shouldn't come over. I'm sorry. That's just like out of pocket. A lot of these life cases, what are they in prison for? Because the feds is,

there's not too many murders in the feds, right? And if it is, it's racketeer. Okay. Most of them will be in there for murders, racketeria, like drug cases. I've seen people got life over

a brick of crack and get a license. But those, they're starting to try to, like, reverse and do good on that. I've seen a lot of people get, and I've seen some people give back life.

Like, after 20 years, like it's like a written rule in the feds. They'll give your life sentence, but after you do about 18, 19, 20 years there, give you back and let you go home. Yeah, I had guys on the podcast two brothers, Lyle and Lonnie Jones, which was a really good interview. They got life and they got out under the First Step Act

and they were under crack the crack laws. And I had met guys when I was at Fort Dix that when Obama's last days in office, they had, you know, 20, 30 years and they got pardoned down his last week. It's really wholesome like seeing all those guys go home and everything. So you don't do your whole bid though at this place. What happens that gets you kicked out of there? Yeah, I broke a do jaw with a lock. Lock and a sock. Yeah. Yavv, he was stealing.

And that's how it goes. Like politics when it comes to the fed. You can't steal. You can't do certain things on the yard, like gambling and owning debts, like the stuff like that. So what do you do? Like your guys said you have to go handle this? No, I just wanted to do it. I was just young and just like excited to do it.

Like they're like, yeah, you got to go. So I'm like, I'm going to do it. I want to do it. And, you know, we'd meet a lot of guys like you in prison, those young, like the hot heads and when we they'd come down from mediums to the low guys are like dude you got to chill out because you're going to ruin it for people because they're like eager to like pop shit off so you take it and what do you do with it uh i put it i put the lock inside two socks it's a master lock i put inside two socks boom and on the way walking out before you be walked out because you got to go

through two uh middle detectors in the usp you got to go out through the first middle detector you got so right before we was about to get through the first one i smacked them with the lock and And me and the dudes start jumping to do, and the police start spraying us, and they took us to the shoe. And how long were you in the shoe for? I was in the shoe for about, like, five months. Five months. What's it like to be in shoe the whole solitary for five months? They called me the god of the shoe. Really?

I did more shoe time. I did more time in prison in the shoe than I did on extra combat. So out of the 10 years you got, how much time do you think you were spent in the shoe? Like seven years. Seven years? I probably got about seven, six years in the shoe. Bro, that, how does that affect you? Man, that's got a... Because I'm always into stuff, man.

I'm talking about I'm always... If anybody watched this right here and they comment on it, they're all going to say, yeah, he's not lying. I'm always into dumb shit, man. I was always into something stupid. Yeah. Yeah, it's just dumb shit. Now, can you talk about the shoe a little bit?

Like, what's it like? What's the, like, showering in the shoe, everything? And you're in a cell all day. Is there commissary? What can you do? It's... Yeah, commissary do come. It depends.

It depends what spotted it is. What prison you were at that will. give you comestair because some spots come and it won't be nothing on their list like you can't get no food won't be no deodorants you're going to say nothing like that like you're like why would you even have a commentary list

and then it's like in a shoe man like people got things called cars in the shoe where they take haul bags and they are like basically wet tissue or put it aside the hall's bag or whatever they're a milk cart and you like rip off your sheet

to your to your to your to your blanket and tie it on to the little thing you made. And that's how you get to people who sell is across from you or up from you and everything. And y'all could trade whatever y'all trying to do or send night kites or whatever. Wow. And showers in the shoe. How does that go down? Oh, they're so nasty too.

Shows, oh, my God. The showers in the shoe is so nasty. But this less like, it's a little, literally the shower is so small, man. It was in yourself. Yeah. Some, someone will have showers in the shoe. the cells and then sometimes the guards got to come and cuff you up and take you to the ones up. But, little likely it showers in the cell. And did you have a cellmate most of the time in the shoe?

Yeah. See, me, I like to have a cellie in the shoe. So you could talk to them. Yeah. Because I feel like you go crazy if you don't have someone to talk. Yeah, I rap all day. I'm talking about all day rapping. I'm at the door. I'm talking shit to the police, throwing shit, piss on them, all types of stuff. I'm just going crazy. Knowing what you know now about prison and the shoe and everything, do you think that the shoe is a good tactic that the prison uses? No, people go crazy behind the shoe. I watch people literally go mentally crazy behind the shoe. I feel like 30 days is good enough. They'd be having people back there forever sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. I invested, that's a, that's a, that's the feds can do you dirty because they could say, oh, you're under investigation, just keep you there. Yeah, I've just come get you for nothing. Yeah, I would see a lot of investigations got a guy sleeping with female staff.

Yeah. Did you see that at all through your prison time? I, I never seen somebody like, mex actually mess with a lot. like get us like actually fuck one no or have sex one no never seen it but you hear about it yeah i don't heard where dudes and touch the ceo but or grabbed her hand or rotor kite like y'all is crazy it's so crazy what go it's like a whole world bad it really is like the store is like you could take a hundred inmates and they're all going to have a different story from prison like if they are all sitting and talking about it don't let me get started on the people who like jerk off to the us the women inmates all right so we have to talk about that especially in the shoe someone that spent a lot of shoe time, they would do like the weekly walkthroughs, everyone, and inmates are sitting

there whacking off in the cell. What's the logic? Why do they do this? And what are these guards reactions? I got this right here for my DC dudes. The DC dudes say that it's called being in the game. This is what they call it? They call it, you got to be into the game. So I'm like, what is it in the game? So they say that when you is jerking off to a woman And if she's looking into your eyes She's in the game So I said, what if they're not looking into your eyes? They said, Slim, no matter what they're in the game

I said, no, this is this creepish behavior I cannot get it to this. It's not me And they're not the only ones though Everybody from every state they got people who We call them jackoff artists Jackoff artist Yeah, I've heard different names Jackoff artist is the first

He's a gunner. I've heard gunner. He has snipers. He's a sniper. So do you, have you ever witnessed this go down? Yes. In your cell too or no? No, there ain't nobody going to do that with me.

I'm going to have to do something very bad to you if you do that because that's very disrespectful. But you like, like you said in the shoe, you can hear it like the girls, but oh my God, you creep. But other inmates don't consider this like sexual harassment or rape or anything like that. Some people do. Some people like you creep, bro. And they won't, they won't tolerate that. Then they'll handle that. Yeah, you got some people who, uh, we don't stand for that, bro.

Yeah. Then you got some, like the old DC car, you got some DC. Those DC guys are wild, man. They wouldn't. Yeah. You was praised if you do it. All right. So on that know about DC guys, I've heard a lot about, like, gay for the stay and that terminology.

What is, like, what is that exactly? You got so good DC men. I can't do that to all them. I got so good DC men that I really genuinely love. Like, they are good dudes and they not would. None of that. Then you do got something that be on that type of time. That is the truth. And they will say it themselves. They don't care. They don't care. They feel like if they get head from a man, it's not gay. But then they'll get out of prison and they'll be fine. They just. They girl be fine with it. Like, their girl knows that they was dealing with men to stop prison and be okay with it when they come on. I think the D.C. car has like the worst rep on the East Coast. They're known for being like very vicious towards white guys.

Whoa, yeah. Yeah. They look at them and, you know, as like, pray. exactly and they're like those are guys that'll like you know they'll rape someone or they'll do whatever and they think it's acceptable I see somebody get raped I see go ahead poop and do does that make you think about things

does that like scare you or like they're scared me because I know nobody was about doing nothing to me but I ain't a lot DC dudes are savages man if they if they can smell that you weak they're on you man the hyaena's gonna come for you man

and they really act like that I'd see guys like licking their lips like they're like, like if they're coming down from like a medium and stuff and that they're, they have to hold themselves back like, hey, bro, we're not at a medium. No more. We're at a low. Like, just saying how this shit goes down. Right. Did you, uh, go on Con Air at all? Oh yeah. I've been to Oklahoma like eight times. All right. So talk about your experience, con air, that process, and Oklahoma. Man, man, shoot. My first time being on there, they took us to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

I go to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And when you ride up first, you just stop because this like you go around this little bend and when you pull up, you're pulling up to like this old, a bit, like, look in the band of the airport. So you might sit on that bus right there for like two or three hours before the plane come. You'll see him with the play coming, everything. Circle around there.

And when you finally go through the gate, the bus, you got to all line up. And I'm talking about this, a whole bunch of buses. And the plane is right there. And it's people coming off the plane and they got to go to the side and stand in lines like inmates. While all of us inmates are getting loaded off the bus, buses and then they'll call us one by one to go get searched and all that to go up on the plane. And when you see the bad plane, swear to God, got a United States flag on like the little

tail of it. And one of them is no law. It got a duct, got duct tape around it. True story. It's not a law. That's definitely not a law. That is a true story. They still have it to this day. Yeah. And the marshals, they have guns surrounding the plane and you're chained up. Yeah. I know the marshal's names by hearts. They know my name. my heart. Oh man. Are you like talking shit to them? Every time I get on there I start talking shit. They like, oh, we don't care, man. Where are you going now? Like they always yell at it. And they bring you to Oklahoma. What's Oklahoma City like? Oklahoma, when I got there, it was a long ass hallway. I'm talking about the hallway long with a bench on this side. It used to be two benches

long like that. But they cut in a half for like the women on that side now. But it was a long bench, long hallway. And you got to sit down and you wait in Oklahoma. You're sitting there until everybody could get up and you got to walk on this like long wooden type box and they take the chains off y'all and then you go to a big room and change out and all like and there's only like one little toilet in this giant holding room too and it's like 100 people in the room and they're waiting because they have to process each person in i remember getting there at seven you don't get up to the units like two or three a m sometimes and you go from one room big room to another big room to another big room you just yeah people could play in like about um airlines and waiting and cancellations and shit you

have not experienced pure airline suffering until you ride con air and go through that. Imagine trying to get up and you got to take a shit or a piss and you cuffed up and you by the window. Yeah. And you get in a cheese sandwich while the marshals would be chowing down on McDonald's or Burger King in the plane. And they do show on purpose. Two cookies.

You get a water, say Oklahoma on the water. All right. You've been to a lot of different prisons in America, federal prisons. I'm sure you've seen a lot of different currencies. Can you talk about like what the currency? is used on different yards and who sets the currency and how it works? Well, most of the yards I've been on mostly be like books of stamps, actual mailing stamps. But they say it like lows, like the money will be food or something like that.

Like people take food as the currency instead of books and stamps. How does someone convert books of stamps into actual legit money? What's the process? I mean, well, you can have, shoot, as a person I make the phone. call like yo I'm trying to buy these that of that for my man's they could have cash app time or you could physically make the person bring the people to money uh Western Union yeah cash app is definitely big in prisons now yes are you seeing a lot of cell phones too in the prison not really but you you've seen so I've seen some spots now some spots that had them maybe when you got to the

mediums not so much as the penitentiaries are harder to get in yeah they're real hard now back to currency like books of stamps do people sell them in bulk at a cheaper rate like say 10 books normally goes for a hundred dollars it'd be 70 dollars it would be 70 dollars if you buy a bunch some people 50 did you gamble at all or anything like that i used to stay rolling dice i loved celo man we had my my man's dice come on the show and he explained the ceiloh game dude you know what it was i think it was the dc car that put me on to it yeah and i would be shooting them all night and it was just Dude, there's an adrenaline. I do it for hours.

It was so much fun. Yeah, I love Celo. That's, I'm talking about, you might walk into you, and it'll be a group of inmates sitting there a roll of Ciloh, smoking, whatever. Seal, like, man, just let them do it. Dude, it's such a fun time and it passes time and the guys love it. And now smoking, you mentioned smoking. What is K2 and why is it so big in federal prisons?

Oh, my God, because K2 is where they can't, if they, if they give you a urine test, it's not going to come up in your urine. So instead of smoking, weed or like some people take some boxes and it come up in Europe K2 it doesn't so everybody smokes it. That shit fucks you up. What? Now like I would go to the bathroom at night and they would have a chair in the bathroom stall and I'm like what's this chair for? They're like come over here 10, 11 o'clock at night you'll see why. What are you seeing some of these guys do on K2? I see him a dude so hard one time off K2 he got high. He started smoking. He burst out the room. Start running. I'm like,

wise was he like he get to the middle of the floor and he just started throwing up and he got like orange throw up his throat was like orange then he jumped down on the ground and started like swimming through it like I'm in sea world I'm in sea world I swear it a lot I could die right now I was crying I was crying laughing and what does the prison do when they get these guys and there's no way to prove that they were actually on drugs right they took them down the medical cleaned his ass up and broke up right back to the And some of these guys, like, when it's count time, I know other inmates are trying to get them into the cell right for count because these guys have to be fucked up. Yeah, it's like, bro, get into cell. Yeah, like, yeah, because you go back to get locked down or you're going to make something happen that it don't have to if you just get your high ass in the room. Did you have a prison hustle at all to make money? I used to sell cigarettes, K2. I used to be selling with you. Anybody tell you, I walk around the yard. I got pizza slices, candies. I do everything on the yard, Ruff it.

How did you get tobacco in to sell? It wasn't. We used to steal it from the guards. They used to have spit. They were spit in the cup, and we used to get it, and then we would steam it up, bring it back to, like, tobacco, break it down, and sell it. Wait, you would take a guard spit, how would you steam it up?

You got to, you got to steam the cup up, like somebody makes a fire or something like that, or they make, like, a candle, and you'll put, like, a cup of water under the candle, and you'll put a thing of plastic over top of the cup and you poke a little holes through it and you'll put the, it's not the spit, but it's like the little, like the little, like wetish

glob balls that they used to have. I don't know, I can't explain that that comes inside the stuff and you have to pour it out and you put it on top of that and the steam from the smoke or dry it out. This is kind of gross, but.

Yeah. So how much are you selling this for? I'm selling them. Some people buying cigarettes for $3. Some people buy cigarettes, $7. then you got $10 cigarettes. Do you roll it in the toilet paper tissue? Yeah, they'd be like the, not the, but the thing that come inside the toilet paper like that, the thing that comes.

Yeah, the wrapper, because that's what the guys are smoking out of. They smoke it up. I'll say, I don't smoke cigarettes. So it was like all profit for me. Yeah, so what was your profit margin? You selling it for three? How much did it cost? Do you have to pay someone to roll it or are you rolling it yourself and steaming it?

Oh, no, yeah. I was doing it myself and steaming it, but I'll give it to somebody to sell. I just give it to them and they're going to roll up their cigarettes. What are like some unique prison hustles? We hear about the basic ones, like having a store tattooed. What are like some original, like creative prison hustles? Man, it's a dude who can make remotes basically out of your watches. I'm like, I told him, I'm like, I don't know what you're doing in prison.

This man made an actual remote control of his watch where he could change the channel from his watch. No law. And how much would he sell like a remote for? What would it be used for? He sells remotes like, he's $300. And what would someone use a remote for? To change the channel on the TV. Because the other inmates would break the other remotes.

Yeah, or just you can't, or you couldn't get a remote. You might not have a remote to the TV. You might have to, or get tired of going to the guard, getting a remote. You know what I? Some people be tired of that. Now, back to the, something I'd never ask someone about is toilet paper in federal prison. Can you explain that process, like how it's distributed and why it's so sacred in federal prisons? Because they get you two rows.

like every week they'll come by like the day that they do maintenance and give you your soap and stuff like that they give you two rolls some spots they won't be petty like that some dudes just throw it out like here and take it oh it's good with some spots you going to get two rolls one for you or one for your celly or you're going to get four rolls two for you or two for your selling and it's like it's bad especially when commissers locked down you can't buy new ones oh my god you have to like preserve that right and i never really thought of it like i never went through the whole two rolls guys would be like yo can i get that and i'm I'm just thinking it's like it's toilet paper. Sure, man. You're going to have the roll of toilet paper.

Old time is really gold. But some guys, yeah, some guys have like a net bag. Full of toilet paper under their bag. It's like stuff. Not even con. And then they would also have bags of commissary that are just under their bag in case of a lockdown. They're stocking up for the next lockdown. And don't let them be the store, man. Dude, it's, it's so crazy, man. Yeah. What about like shakedowns? Are they doing sell shakedowns? Or, Yes, they do. They do issue. And you might have like a unit manager who wants to do that on a specific day every week. So how does that go down? What's the process? Basically, it's called inspection. They walk around, inspect your room. Everybody got to stand outside they sell or just be outside they sell while they're walking around inspecting. They go in your cell and look through your cell and see if your bed was made and they'll go through your shit. And whatever they find, they find trust and believe, you're going to the shoot. Once they lock that door, you know, up, he's going to jail.

What do you think was the hardest thing about prison for you? The hardest thing about prison for me, I'm going to say is, like, you'd be so out of touch with your family, especially if you get sent so far. And then they'd be taking, like, your phone. Like, if you see day chill when you want to shoot, they take your phone 90 days. They want to take comments. You know what I'm saying? So being out of contact with your family is very, very, like, it's very hard. Yeah.

And especially when you're in the higher security prisons where there's no self. easy access to cell phones and where was the farthest they had shipped you out to? The furthest I went to was Atwater. And where is that? California. California. And your family, your family's in New Jersey and they're sending you to California. But that was your own doing. Like, it's not like it was your first time ever in prison. They sent you right there. No, no.

At what point do you change your mindset? And you're like, I got to get my shit together. Like, I can't keep doing this. I didn't. I didn't. I'm going to tell you the truth. I didn't. The whole prison bid, you were just, Yeah, day for day. I didn't get no halfway house. I didn't, nothing. I did. I went to the halfway house and was home 17 days and they sent me right back.

Looking back on it now, why do you think that was? And do you regret that at all? Yeah, I do regret it. I was young. I was just young and just really clout chasing. I'm going to tell you all the trial. I was just clout chasing. I wanted everybody to know my name and the feds and all that.

And that's why it is now. And you lost your entire 20s. Yeah, I lost my childhood. Do you think about it now? Like, I could have had more time with my son. Like I had had had done so many different things. Yeah. do I, but at that point in life, and this is the realest thing I could say, I lost love for people.

Like, real I've lost love for like anybody that was out in the real world. I didn't, like, I didn't care about nobody at that time, no more, nobody, felt like everybody was against me. Why? Why did you feel that way? Because a lot of people I used to do stuff for when I was home, ain't showing the same love no more to me while I'm in jail. But do you feel like they owed you that?

And that was very selfish of me, but I did feel like they owe me that because I felt like if they was in my shoes, I would be going crazy for them. Now, knowing what you know now, would you be crazy for them? No. You wouldn't? No, because I know they wasn't crazy for me. No, but if it was different people, like if the rules were reversed, it was entirely different people.

Oh, yeah, I'll go crazy for them. Now that you've done a 10-year prison sentence, if, like, say you have a new best friend, he gets 10 years, you're going to be with him? I'll be people. I'll take care about like 10 people right now in jail. Every day, they, you know, I need $50. You all need this. You all need that.

Some people don't have anything. Yeah, I know. And I know that. And that's why they call me because they know that I know how I feel to be in a situation. So they know I'm going to take care of them. Yeah. Were there ever times that you called people back home and they didn't help you and you felt like abandoned or lost or like an empty feeling? Yeah.

And what about your mom during this whole 10 years? My mom did day for day with me. I love her to death. You guys talked and stayed close. My mom made sure she said if it was $50, it was $100 every Wednesday. That whole nine years straight. That's a mom right there. She held you down.

And what about your siblings? Were you close with them? I know the other brother got arrested, but... Well, he just got arrested, though. That just happened to him like three years ago. That just happened. He wasn't... But I was already locked up one year.

So I was locked up when he caught that. But, yeah, like... What about your dad? Were you in touch with him during your bed? He was in jail. Yeah, but we're... can't sometimes they set it up where you can communicate we was right and i was writing them and then when he came home while i was still in and then went back in while i was still in and you

probably think that that was like cool because you were clout chasing or no no i didn't think that was cool at all i ain't go out to you i thought that was the dumbest thing ever like how you come home like you he went to jail twice while i was doing that one bit do you think that's when your mentality started to change when you saw him do that yeah did that make you think at all about things. Yeah. When I got to the end of my bed, and because once I lost all my good time, it was like, I didn't give up. I didn't care about nothing. So it was like, it ain't nothing can happen to me no more. Like, I'm invincible, honestly. That's how I felt. I felt invisible. It's nothing you can do to me. I'm going to go home regardless of this day. You can't stop

me. How much time do you end up serving? The whole 108 months. And what could you have gotten out of if you had acted accordingly and shoot, out of there seven, like seven, almost seven years. eight months or something like that. So you gave them like a free two years almost. Yeah. Lost all of it. That's crazy. Yeah.

And for like what, you know? For cloud. For cloud. It's crazy like the things we do, you know, to appease certain people or to be liked or fit in or anything like that. So sometimes I had to stay in no business, though, because sometimes some of the CEOs might disrespect me. Then I'm peed up the police. You hit a CEO. A lot of times.

I don't fought the police on many prisons. Hollywood, Leavenworth. I don't fault the police. Just McDowell, West Virginia. What's like the craziest fight with the CEO story? That one, and McDowell, that one, they sent me to Big Sandy. Man, the CEO, I don't know what he was on that day. I guess he had got into it with the emmaid I was talking to, but he came in. I'm talking about hot too. Yeah, what you talk about now? Talking to the emmate. So I'm talking with that, man. I'm like, damn, you ain't even going to say, like, excuse me, no nothing? Like, you just straight came and bombarded our conversation.

He's like, what? I'm like, you ain't say, excuse me. You just came over here and just, you know, came right into our conversation. He's like, what? Matter of fact, you shut your bitch ass up. What? Fuck me, I ain't go lie. He said, you shut your bitch ass up.

I said, what? Yeah, I ain't like him. I'll fuck you up. Like that, right? He was like, what? He said, man, I'll say, man, I'll fuck you up. He was like, go down to the lieutenant's office. I started walking to the lieutenant's office.

he started walking with me. He's like, yeah, yeah, you're lucky. I would have fucked your bitch ass up. I'm like, yeah, all right. You know not to say nothing. I would have really fucked you up. And he grabbed my plate. I was eating some food.

Grab my plate and swung it. I punched him. And we started fighting right there. And you hit the button in the police came. They fucked me up. And what's the button? I guess it's the button. They push on the side.

That's the cold for them to make the other police come saying he in distress. He needs help. So what happens? The police came and they fuck me up. They rate like a, a. swarm of them? Yeah, yeah. I remember seeing like when a button got hit, they drop what they're doing and they're all trained to run straight there. There you go. So what do they like tackle you? What goes down? Yeah, they tackled me. They were stopping on my head, stopping on my neck,

twisting my legs and twisting my arms and doing all crazy stuff. And then they finally cuffed me. So when they cuffed me, that's when they really start going in. I felt like they was doing the rock elbows and all. Dude, you're lucky you didn't get another charge, man. You made it through this whole 10-year sentence without getting indicted again or charged or anything like that. Oh, whoa. Oh, man, bro. One dude, I stabbed him a king. Yeah.

Dude, this makes me sick here in this whole story. One dude I stabbed him a king. It was serious. It was serious charge. They were trying to get me. Really? And you were just like carrying around shanks and doing all this? I used to make shanks out of the tan khakis they give us.

Yeah. I used to be able to sharpen shanks with them. How? It's like the fabric for some reason. You can use them and then it'll sharpen the knife. In the feds, do they give you razors like they do in the other ones? Like, how do you shave? They give us weak razors, though.

But you could pop them open? Yeah, yeah. That's what people would be like cutting these summer dogs and all that stuff. So they still give you razors. Yeah, y'all. Does anyone get hurt with a razor in prison? Yeah. Don't you think it's a bad idea to give some violent criminals of razors?

Especially with New York dudes. Man, New York dudes is like a razorologist. They could just, they're just good. Slice your face one open. Is there anything like you regret? now doing in prison, like against someone else or anything like that? Yeah, there's a lot, all the stuff I really wish I didn't do because I didn't have to do it. I just was clout chasing, wanting to do stuff for nothing. I wish I never did it. Does it, does it keep you up

at night thinking about it sometimes? Yeah, a lot of stuff that I went through in prison definitely keep me up. Like, I still, like, get inside my shower with my shower shoes. Really? Until this day, right now, yeah. Was that, do you think that was, like, one of the hardest adjustments coming out? Yeah, it's like, it's a lot. Like, I still wake up early. Like, I wake up five, six o'clock waiting for, like, it's like the door's going to pop. Yeah, do you, what's like the terminology to be behind, like, being institutionalized? Like, do you feel like you are in a sense, like, after doing 10 years on a certain routine, has that carried over?

I know I'm institutionalized. There ain't no question about it. I know it's certain things. Like, if a person is too close to me, I'm automatically, like, in defense mode, ready to, you know what I'm saying? and that's how I know I'm institutionalized. Because this is the real world. People don't even think they're doing no harm to you. Like not wanting to be touched or anything like that.

Like Walmart, people hit your car or hit you on accident and don't say nothing and just keep it moving. And then the Fed and the Fed and the Fed and if they say sorry or nothing like that, you probably would have to stab that person. You get what is like the respect? So what year do you get out? I just got out last year. You got out.

2020. I was, 2020. What do you think? What do you think was like the biggest change in the real world and the free world from when you went in? My biggest change was the like I had to start getting used to really being around people. Like being around people again. Like it's like something in jail like I don't know. It's like I felt I was going so long that I started feeling uncomfortable in jail.

Can you understand what I'm saying with that? Like being around the people I was around all that. It's like I was comfortable. It's like when I got out of jail, I was very uncomfortable around people. Got very uncomfortable because it's like I don't know nobody no more. I felt like I knew people where I was at. I don't know nobody no more. I don't know nobody no more.

Yeah. Yeah, I was like scared to trust people because I didn't know. You know what I was there? It's just so much stuff going on. I just. Do you heal from that over time? Like how's your mindset shifted in just like the past year? Well, the past years, yeah.

It's like from when I came home to now, it's like I just, trust more, but I still move a certain way. Like, I don't like going out and being socially evolved for everybody. And I don't know, I just, I don't like to do stuff like that. Stuff like that makes me feel congested. Like, I'm just stuck so. I don't know. I don't like that feeling. Are you cautious now of who you spend your time with, too? Yeah. Do you have a better sense of, like, your value of time and freedom and, and that? The people I surround myself around. Keeping your peace and finding your peace. I'll protect my peace at all cause.

I think when you lose your peace, you get into a scary spot. Like when you're in prison, you don't really have that piece. And when you get out, you know, certain things can trigger not having your peace and you have to protect it. Like, that's something I'm working through myself. Like, as I navigate certain situations, I'm really realizing, like, the value of keeping my peace and other, how easily others can affect that. And I want to be in control of that and not lose that. And it's definitely, like, it's, I'm very cautious about that and who I let in to my service. because we don't want to, no one wants to lose their piece.

The piece is like one of the most important things you have. Right. So what about your relationship with your kid after 10 years? Does he look at you differently? Are you guys having conversations? Yeah, I talk to my son every day. Me and him, like, it's crazy because he loved me so much like I've been with them every day. Like, I never left him.

Like, that's how he act. Are you making sure he doesn't go down the same path you traveled? Of course. And I love, like, he wouldn't be a. an eye surgeon. So, I'm an eye surgeon. Eye surgeon, really? He wants to be an eye surgeon.

So I'd be really big on him about those things. So I'll, like, Google stuff about eye surgeons and stuff like that, and I'll quiz him. You know what I'm saying? Like, ask him stuff about it. And if he don't know it, then I'll teach him about it because I know that's what you want to do. You know what I'm saying? So I'm big for what you want to do.

Yeah. Before your path spiraled out of control, what were your aspirations? Like, what were your dreams as a child growing up? I wanted to go to the NBA. You want to go to the NBA? and that was in your heart that you wanted to do it. I used to love basketball, but I just was too much into the streets. I used to let the streets control me.

I just didn't even care about even getting too far into it, but I used to be real good at basketball. Do you ever think about that, those early days, like the childhood? Like, I'll be with my friends and I'll reminisce about, like, the good days, middle school, high school. I do that all the time. Before things went bad. Like, I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's the music.

I don't know what it is, but you just can't have a good time anymore. I'll be driving. I'll just remember those days. And they're like happy times. And I'll smile. I'm like, wow, man, life was just so much simpler. Like they just said, for the 4th of July, back of the day, 4th of July, used to be able to go to a cookout. Now, 4th of July, you've got to ask who's having a cookout. That's crazy. Now, you were saying that in prison, your mindset was still the same way before you got into prison like that, you know, getting into trouble, that aspect. When did it change when you got out? And why did it change? Shoot, because I know that if I do anything that I'm going to go back for a long time and I'm definitely not going back to jail

period. I just don't want to go. Jail wasn't a lifestyle that I really liked. It was I had to do a type of thing. Do I want to do it again? No. Do you think if you had gotten, if you got that original five years, would you have the same mindset you do now? No. I probably had been back in jail already. You needed that 10 years. That's crazy to think about. It saved me. That saved, yeah. And what do you do now for work? Like right now, me, I'm on like flipping house. and stuff like that. So I got my own, I rap. So I kinda make a little bit of money

for my rapping and stuff like that. And I'm just trying to put it towards flipping houses and making generation more, just generating money, so I could just put more into my music until finally something happened. Or I'll just be a landlord, or start trucking companies, whatever I can do with my money,

just I want different avenues. Is that what you're passionate about? I'm passionate about my music, but I love just entrepreneurship. I love it. Like I don't know, some of the about. being a businessman. I just love it. Yeah. Do you feel like that was like your purpose, your calling, like everything brought you to this to do that? Yeah. Before I even went to jail, I was, when I was selling drugs, I was thinking about getting my drug money and open up a laundromat. Didn't even know while, but I just wanted a laundromat. Like, I already had the gameplay. I can't do illegal things for too long. Like, yeah. Go and go to jail. That, I mean, that's good. I think it's helpful for people to know that. Like, that you've gone through the shit. You caused all that trouble in prison. You went through it the worst of the worst and you're out.

and you have that clear mindset that you're not going back. Like, this is who I am now. And I think that's great. Like, that's a great message. Now, knowing everything you know now, and you went back to your 19-year-old self and you sat down with him, what do you say to that 19-year-old self? I tell him, do not clout chase.

You do not have to do none of the things that you're going to want to do. You do not have to do them. Just go home of your son. Go home. just go home man that's all I should have told myself just go home do your bid now oh you're talking about my 19 yourself before while I was about to have to go to prison or no before before before you went to prison yeah everything oh I would have told him bro it's a thing called Bitcoin it's going to be super big when you see it buy up all the shares that's what I

told me yeah I actually got an offer to buy Bitcoin 2013 and I should have but I think about that too I'm like, well, you know, as soon as it made 10 grand, I would have cashed it out. So it never would have to see the billions. It would have been worth anyways. But you see a little bit of growth you just have. You're like, oh, I'll take that. Yeah, that's like at the casino, you know, and you keep pressing it until you lose it. And you're done.

What's the next, like, five years look like for you? Are you planning into the future? Are you thinking about what's next for you? Yeah. I'm going to be a, I feel like I'm going to be a multimillionaire within the next five years. I think within the next two years, that's how I feel. I'm putting in a lot of ground, a lot of work right now. And how do you get back?

like how do you how do you make peace with like some of the actions you've done like in the past what's your plan to like get back to the world because money and stuff is great money power and all that yeah like i want it like me i'm big on homeless i don't like homeless people like i don't like seeing people homeless like that i don't know something about me every time i see homeless people if i got it i'm gonna give them money because I could be there. I could be in a situation. I'll just feel like there's so much people with all this money they could come through, come together and at least get like

an apartment complex and house the homeless people. Yeah. Yeah, about all these apartment complexes, but I can't put none of these homeless people up. And just, come on, it's not that hard. Let them do whatever they do in their house. That's on them. But at least get them somewhere to live.

Do you also ever think about the people that were close in your life and how that affected them? doing those 10 years with you? Do you think about that and their feelings and emotions? Of course. How does that make you feel?

Really, I really feel bad for myself because I was putting them through a lot of stuff. I used to just call and lie about stuff I'm about to do just so I can get some K2. And I really might have probably went and did the stuff I was about to go do

just because they thought I was playing around. I mean, your poor mother, you're probably telling her to do stuff, but she's like, what is he getting into? And like, they're out. I know how I made my dad feel when I'd call him for stuff. I used to make my mom cry for real.

And that hurt me like so much because it was the drug. The drug was so addictive. And I felt like if I didn't smoke at that time, like I said, I'm going to do something. Wow. Just off a little attitude or somebody rubbed me the wrong way. I'm about to stab him. Yeah. Yeah.

So I spoke a K too heavy to keep myself calm. Michael, thank you for coming on the show, man. This has been great, a great conversation. Thank you. Yeah, definitely like different. It was really interesting diving into like the prison stuff on the penitentiary level and hearing your experience, man. And I hope you reach those goals that you want to get and stay on that path, man, and keep doing your thing. And be sure to check out your music.

You want me back? Bring me back. Where could people find you at? You can find me all everything, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram. What's it now? TikTok. Yeah, all of it. Broad Day Boom.

The real Broad Day Boom. Just type in Broad Day Boom. You're going to see me, light scan. dread statues. You're going to know who I am, man. Cool. Yeah, we're going to put all your information in the bio, the episode, and people will definitely check you out, man. Check me out on Spotify, all of that, the real broad day boom type of really federal. My EP is up there.

What's the best song you would recommend for a first-time listener? Oh, I'm going to tell you, you go listen to Napkin. Napkin is a very good song. I love Napkin on that EP. Napkin, you're going to like Napkin. That's a very good song. Awesome, man. Thanks for coming on the show on Safe Travels, Bad.

Yeah, thank you.