Locked In with Ian Bick - Surviving Day One: Inside a Prison as a Rookie Correctional Officer | Sam Stansfield

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

Step inside the world of a correctional facility with special guest Sam Stansfield as he shares his raw and unfiltered experience as a brand new correctional officer. From the initial training to his first day on the job, Sam takes you through the highs, lows, and unexpected moments that define this challenging yet rewarding profession. Whether you're considering a career in corrections or just curious about what goes on behind the prison walls, this video will give you an insider's perspective on the realities of life as a rookie officer. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Shuffling ID Cards 00:03:55 - Growing Up in a Split Family and Emotional Impact 00:08:12 - The Impact of Personal Experiences 00:12:17 - Joining the Corrections Field 00:16:37 - Dangers of Being a Correctional Officer 00:20:55 - Hands-On Training in Prison 00:25:22 - The Mistake at the Yard 00:29:46 - Dynamics and Camaraderie among Prison Guards 00:34:04 - Incidents in the Prison 00:38:26 - Cooking in Prison 00:42:33 - K2 and Its Effects on Inmates 00:46:54 - Smuggling in Prison 00:51:11 - Making Hooch in Prison 00:55:33 - The Prison Experience 00:59:53 - Leaving the Prison System 01:04:14 - Finding Happiness and Fulfillment in Life 01:07:57 - Farewell and Safe Travels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at Mintmobile.com. He's telling me how everything works. He's like, listen, we got 10 phones. And Mace will come up, give you their IDs, and you make a group of 10, put it right there. It's like group A, let's say. Grab another 10, that's group B.

Then you call them up, hand their IDs back to them. They get on the phone, and then just the cycle continues. I'm like, okay, I think I can do that. You know, that's pretty simple. Well, the yard is a loud place, be yelling, screaming, stuff always happening. So I got probably 10, 20 cards, ID cards. in my hand. Everybody's on a bleacher waiting to use the phones and start talking to one guy.

And I don't even know what the conversation was about, but I was starting to like, you know, fidget with my hands, kind of. Not even thinking I take the ID cards and I start shuffling them, like a deck of cards, not even thinking that they were all in order for the phone. And as soon as I did that, there's about 20 of the biggest dudes I've ever seen stand up on the bleachers and just like it instantly because they all lost their spots on how to get on the phone. Sam, welcome to Lockton. You came all the way from Elmira, New York. Probably our 10th or 15th guest from that upstate New York area. Yep, that's what you were saying. You know, kind of small towns up there, but also a lot going on. Yeah. My family's in Rochester. So I go, I think you go out that way to get to Rochester, right?

Yes. Kind of Elmira. And then Ithaca. out that way? Yep, yep. So, yeah, those are a couple of bigger cities. Yeah, from Rochester, probably an hour and a half. Okay. Hour.

Yeah, I was there last week in Rochester, but I flew. Oh, yeah. It was easier. But on the way back, I got stuck. It was like an eight-hour trip back because there was like flight delays and then the plane got deplained and mechanical issues flying out of Rochester. Okay. Well, that doesn't even compensate then for making good time getting there.

Exactly, exactly. That was actually my first time flying. lying to Rochester. Okay. Pretty short trip, but then they got me on the way home like that, so I was screwed. Yeah. Did you grow up in Amira? I grew up just outside of Almira, Horseds.

Horseds. Yeah, in the town of Horsesds, New York. It's got to be pretty small. Yeah, it's fair size, you know. So, but yeah, that's where I grew up, born and raised, and I was always going to tell myself, you know, I'm not going to stay in this town when I grow up. You know, I'm going to spread my wings. and do all that.

So, but now I got a family and, and I'm still there, 34 years later. I think everyone kind of says that. Like, when I was growing up in high school, everyone's like, let's get out of Damberry. And I said that too. Exactly. And even up until I think probably in the last year I made the decision that I'm going to stay here for a while because my family's here and now we're building this business here. But the way I look at it is it doesn't really matter where exactly you live because you

could travel to those places. Exactly. Like, I don't need to live in California. I could just travel there. And it's easier and cheaper cost-wise. Yeah, that was the other thing is like, you know, you go to the bigger cities. You're going to have bigger prices on everything. And, you know, that's not the point of living.

You know, you want to enjoy things and be comfortable. Yeah, exactly. So did you have a two-parent household and siblings? So I got siblings. My family, my mother and father split when I was younger. So, and that was kind of before I really remember anything. So growing up, split household, and it was actually wasn't the best childhood, you know, wasn't the worst. You know, we were my siblings and I, we were fed and clothed and stuff like that.

But it definitely wasn't the best environment because with the split family comes the, you know, child support and mother wants the kids, father wants the kids type of thing. So there's a lot of that going on growing up. Yeah. Yeah. Did you think the divorce affected you emotionally? Yeah. Yeah. It definitely does.

And even if you don't, like that was my normal. When I was growing up, split family, that was my normal. So I didn't know anything different than then. And there are even times where I lived with my grandparents. They were my primary takers for a while, you know, even up into high school and stuff like that. So that was all kind of my normal stuff. And looking back on everything, I started realizing it wasn't like the most normal childhood, you know, through like my relationship with my wife. You know, we've been married 14 years.

You know, I'm in therapy. and, you know, just to talk to somebody is a huge thing, you know. Therapy is a huge help. So. And it takes a lot for a man to say that, too. It does, yeah. You don't see that too often. You know, I've always grown up like, okay, you know, someone's talking to a therapist,

you know, they must be psycho or something like that. But, you know, it's almost just like this, you know, just without the cameras. And they're so small, you don't even really realize. So that kind of, as going through. that, that kind of revealed that my childhood wasn't totally normal, you know, even though it felt like it as a kid. And something I've seen talking to individuals on the show is a lot of the times the people that have gone off the prison or struggled with addiction came from a divorced family.

Yes. And what's interesting about you is that you went a totally opposite route, but your brother had eventually got caught up in the legal system too. Exactly. So the psychology behind that is just super fascinating, how one goes in a completely different direction. The other one doesn't. But then you guys both came from the same circumstances and situation. Yeah, exactly. So, excuse me. Yeah, no, we, similar situations, you know, we got, we got the same dad, different mothers. And, but again, his, our father got another

divorce. I think it was number three for him at that point. Three divorces. Holy cow. So, so he was dealing, you know, same thing. with our dad, but his mom was out in Colorado. So, but yeah, you know, we both had that type of childhood and grew up. You know, I mean, I wasn't an angel, you know, growing up. I had to kind of learn my ways and stuff like that. But he did the same and just took a different turn. And a lot of it started with, you know, well, first the emotional stuff is, you know,

coming from a split family, you know, it's kind of ingrained in you as a young child, I would say. And then he, I want to say around 2016, 2017, pills were big in our area. A lot of high schoolers getting into them and a lot of overdoses, things like that that come with it. He actually had one buddy who passed away from it, you know, one pill one time and it did them in. So once he started using that, then it turned into abusing that, and then it just led down that road, that bad road. It's interesting that you brought up the one pill one time thing because I

hear so many stories on the show from people that just abused drugs for so many years. And then you see in the paper on the news of that one person that overdosed that one time or people that you grow up with that you hear, like I've lost so many people that I went to school with. to drugs. Yep. And then I sit here on the show and people, literally, there's guys that come on and women that come on that talk about how they brought back to life multiple times. And it's just like how it's interesting how the universe works where some people live,

some people don't, how some people make it through it and others don't. Exactly. And how some people use that as their purpose to help others too. But they've gone through so much, whereas others don't go through that and just pass away very quickly. Yeah. And I've kind of, I've always thought of something like that is maybe like a tolerance, you know. But again, I don't know.

Now, with your parents being divorced, how did that affect your view on marriage if it did it all? So it didn't too much because, so it affected it kind of in a good and bad way. You know, how I said my grandparents were a huge influence in my life, primary caretakers. They had a, you know, they've been married, I want to say, 50 some years. Wow. You know, so they got a strong marriage. Their marriage is good and lasted and time tested and stuff. So I had that to look into.

But on the flip side, with the split family, I was like, I don't ever want that. You know, I'll do everything I can to not let that happen. And so it was, that was a driving motivation factor right there is, you know, see the negative and just do the opposite. Yeah. So. The mindset's interesting because not everyone thinks that way. Yeah.

Yeah, because, and it's, it's probably hard to break the pattern, you know, of generation, divorced, remarried, another generation, divorced, remarried. You know, it's easy to get into the pattern, but it's, it's harder to go against it, even though it's, you know, that's not what you want. Yeah. Have you ever thought about getting into voiceover? your voice is so soothing. Is it?

Yeah, like you have like an interesting, it doesn't even seem like a New York accent kind of. Oh, okay. No, no. You've been told that? You've got to look into that. I should, actually. So a lot of the things I get are like people think I'm Midwestern.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. They're like you sound like you're from Milwaukee or somewhere out there. So, yeah. Yeah, no, just New York guy. And you know what else is? interesting too is so we have a lot of correctional officers on the show that we were talking about and when I was in prison the different ones I've had on the show they all look one type of way that the all of the other ones that I've encountered in my life when I was in prison look like you have the

big bulky ones and you have like the clean cut guys you guys you got the country guys like with the beard which was like the category I'd put you in yeah you have the nerdy ones it's just like they're all there's different class classifications but they all kind of fit into that so intriguing. Oh, absolutely. So I remember one of the, a correctional officer told me when I first went in, he's like, you got all different walks of life and, you know, as guards, you know, and he's like going, looking, pointing at other guys. He's like, you know, he's a mechanic. He sells cars. He used to do roofs and, you know, he'll do roofs on the side. This guy fixed my dryer last month, you know, so, you know, all these different professions all came for,

the pension and the pay. Now, when you were in high school, did you see yourself becoming a correctional officer? Oh, no, not at all. So it wasn't even on my radar. What changed that put that on your radar and kind of changed your trajectory? So since I was a kid, I've always wanted to be a state trooper. Okay. Yep, New York State Trooper, actually.

And what had changed for me to get into corrections was honestly, you know, the fact of the future, looking into the future. Because I never really, like, heard about, talked about, knew any correctional officers, prison guards. Didn't know anybody. Heard stories, things like that. But I just knew it was a shitty job. So, but what kind of changed it was my grandfather had messaged me. And he's like, hey, there's a test coming up. You know, I was doing, I was doing asphalt at the time.

So, you know, driving trucks of asphalt, shoveling, raking, paving. work, you know, it was a seasonal, you know, hot, hard work. So he was like, hey, he's like, if you, you know, you got a pension, you got benefits, good pay, all that stuff, you work, you know, and he's like, he's like the best part is you work for the state, you know, and I was like, I was younger and I'm like, cool, you know, work for the state. It's a steady paycheck, you know, got family to feed and mortgage and all that stuff. So, so that's my grandfather.

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won't last, so don't wait. Shop Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance now through May 25th. Wayfair, every style, every home. it. When you decide to go into it, did you think you were going to make it the long haul where you do like your 20 or whatever they have you doing and they get the pension? Yeah, yep, because it was a long process from signing up for the test to actually becoming a prison guard. And I took over a year, you know, and the whole time I was always thinking about it, stewing on it. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, if I go into this job, it's got to be a, forever thing, you know, do my 25, collect a pension, all that stuff, and be good to go. And, yeah, no, it didn't work out. Did not work out. When you finally make it to the academy, what type of people are in there? Is it people from, like, is it all young individuals that this is their first career?

Is it second career? That's a great question, actually, because I was 27 when I went in. and I want to say 90% of my class that I was in with, 21 years old, just turned 21. So a lot of them take test, you can take the civil service test at 18, but you have to wait until you're 21 to be hired on. So a lot of them have taken the test, waited their year, year and a half, turned 21, and then became, went to the academy from there. ever get a chance to ask them like why what their reason was for signing up if that was a career choice or a stepping stone or what the so a lot of them was my father's a guard my father's a lieutenant my father's uh you know i got all my uncles are prison guards that type of thing so it looked a lot

like um those influences are the ones that told them like hey you know get get into the academy young get your 25 years in and get out young you know you know you're 25 years in and get out you type of thing. Now, pay-wise, what's the difference between joining the corrections and then working in like a state job somewhere else where there's no risk, like when your life's not in danger? Yeah, the hazard risk. So starting off, you're not really making the big bucks. And I mean, even really until you're vetted, you know, got seven to 10 years in, you're not

really making too much money. But I believe in 2017, when I was going through the, Academy, it was for the first year, 45 a year type of, I think. Okay. Yep. So, and then once you get to, I think, seven years, you're bringing in 70,000 a year. And, I mean, it sounds like it's better to work for the feds at that point because I think the feds start higher. Probably.

Yeah. Yeah. Probably. That was another thing, too, is like, you know, I didn't really know anybody going in. but I'd seen some prison guards and they got boats and RVs and motor, you know, motorcycles and stuff. I'm like, man, they make good money. But a lot of it is the overtime. Yeah.

You know, whether you're, whether you sign up the overtime book or you're voluntold. Yeah, and that's like police officers. Yep. Like you read the local paper where they publish like the highest paid officials in the city. At least they do that in our town. Yeah. And it's all police and firefighters, six figures high, like, you know, almost $200,000. But that's all overtime.

When you look at the percentages, exactly. Like the base is only 60 or 70, and then everything else is overtime. Yep. So, but it's, I mean, it comes with a price because, you know, there's, I mean, the time off was nice. You get six weeks, you know, vacation and stuff.

But the other, what, 40, 46 weeks of the year, you know, it's sometimes not worth that six weeks, six weeks off. Now, in the academy, are they actually being, honest with you to tell you what are some of the dangers that can be faced? Because I feel like if you listen to some of these episodes where guys are talking about what goes on, who in their right mind would want to be a correctional officer? That's another good question. They do. Yep. So yeah, they tell you, you know, just some wild stories and they really kind of let you know, like what you're coming into and, you know, the first week, a lot of people kind of just drop out.

So whether they physically can't do it or there's, you know, you start hearing things and you're like, you know, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. So, so yeah, the first week people drop out. But yeah, they definitely give you the lowdown on everything. So they give you the unfiltered version. Yeah. So they'll say like there's a possibility you get shanked or anything. Yep.

So and yeah, you know, and they also tell you too with, you know, max medium minimums, things like that. They let you in a little bit on what to expect, stuff like that because it's wildly different, you know, between the three. So, but yeah, they let you know and that might be one of the ways of, you know, kind of weeding them out. But you don't get a choice. a new recruit to see which place you want to go to. No, you don't. You can get a list. They give you a list, and I think you circle maybe three,

three of the ones that you want to go to. And from my understanding, they try to get you there, but it's wherever you're needed. You know what's a funny comparison is that they do that to inmates. When you're sentenced, the judge can recommend. Oh, really? At sentencing, the judge will say, where would you like to go?

Just a recommendation, but it's up to generally the prison system or the Federal Bureau of Prisons to decide, and your attorney will say, we want to go here, and he puts in that recommendation. Okay. Nine times out of ten, that's not the one you're going to, and they're sending you wherever. But it's interesting that they do that to the inmates and the officers in a sense, too. Yeah. So, yeah, it's New York State then.

Wow. So what was your first person that you go to? So my first prison was Great Meadow, Comstock, up by Lake George. and that's a max prison wow yeah so max your first gig max my first gig so yeah and it's like they called comstock a gladiator school it's old it's you're either roasting hot or you're freezing cold you know and it's just it's an old old prison no AC nothing no nope nope so and they kind of kind of have an old school way of running things as well. You know, when I was there, it was inmates line up two by two.

There's no talking in the hallways. You keep up, you keep the pace, and you get to where you're going. That's it. So they were very strict and straightforward with that. So, but it was definitely, you know, you're sitting in the parking lot on your first day and, you know, you got a couple of buddies with you and you're like, like, everybody else ever been in a prison before? Like, nope, all right.

Oh, so you do have new recruits coming in with you, too. You're not the only. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So there's usually a group of us. Yep. And we, our first day, maybe 10, 12, something like that.

And one guy didn't make it past the locker rooms. You know, we were doing the tour before we even like started getting into the yard before we got into the common grounds and the hallways and stuff. We were doing all the admin stuff and locker rooms, getting assigned lockers. And one dude was like, didn't make it past the locker room. He's like, nope, I'm good. This isn't for me. Now, in the academy, how much real on-the-job experience are you getting trained? Like, are you going into the prison at all or is that your very first time?

So in the academy, you do a, you visit, I want to say two prisons and you do like a walk-through as a group. and that's about it and it's maybe a couple hours if that, you know. So that's the only that's really the only hands on training like in a prison that you get. How did you feel about that

from your perspective? It wasn't too bad for me, you know? So it's not the it's not the locked in part you know because like, you know, maybe if I was an inmate it'd be, you know, you'd lock in. But being able to, you know, do a job, move around a little bit was nice. But it was a lot to take

in, too, because it's not, it was not a job I've ever had before. Never even, you know, not even done security type of work. So this was all new to me. So I had a look at it like that. I had a view it as, you know, like, this is like, this is a whole new world. This isn't like a little job you go to and, you know, play on your cell phone and a customer comes in and you can mess around and stuff. Like, this is a, you know, it's a legit prison job. Yeah, they take away your phones, right? You're not allowed to have them. Yeah, you don't even bring it in.

Yeah. So that's got to be one of the only jobs in America where you have no phone on you for that many hours. No kidding. Like, imagine if someone. something happens on the outside to a family. I guess they could call the prison to say. Yeah, yep, they do that. Yeah, there's some type of way to get in for emergencies and stuff like that.

So, yeah, because that's how I found out my wife was going into labor one time. Really? While you were working. Yeah, yeah. They let you leave, though? So, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

So that was nice. So a couple episodes ago, we had like an OG prison guard from Philly, Michael Smith, real kind of like bulldog. aggressive old school type of guard. As a new officer on the block in your scenario, what were those OG guys saying to you and treating you guys as your first time? Yeah. So, yeah, Schmitty.

And I listened to the episode, and I'm like, there's a Schmitty in every prison. There's a Schmitty prison guard. Yeah, in every prison. You know, there's always a Schmitty. So, yeah, there's tons of them there who, love the job, love what they do. And a lot of them were, you know, coming in in 2017, I didn't know like the old way,

you know, even, let's say even 10 years ago. You know, I came in and we had pipes where we had to do rounds, hourly rounds, maybe half hour rounds, hit the buzzer and it logs that you did your rounds, stuff like that. that's all I've known. The older group, that's all new to them. And, you know, nobody really likes it, you know, and doing, you know, there's some rules that are getting, that are newer coming in that when you're young into it like I was, you don't know any better. That's just what you're taught, it's what you're, uh, come into. But if you've done 20 years and now they're start saying like, hey, you got to do this.

Hey, you got to do that. You know, they don't, they're not big fans of that. Yeah. Were there scenarios where you saw an officer doing one thing, but the academy taught you something completely different and you're kind of like at a standpoint? Oh, yeah, all the time. Yeah, you get in a lot of scenarios to where, you know,

the academy teaches you kind of like the books, you know, how to, you know, go every, you know, go off of the books and do it like this, but sometimes it doesn't account for, sometimes it doesn't account for like the inmate, you know, father just passed away and he's not doing well. You know, he might hang up any minute. He's right on the edge of, you know, losing it. You know, you go by the books, you know, you try to checkmark all these things.

Meanwhile, this dude is, you know, he wants something, he needs something, even just somebody to talk to, you know so that's to where you kind of have to be like okay i'm a skip steps steps one through three and go right to step four and take care of whatever needs to be taken care of so when do you think was the first instance where you realize like this is a crazy place and this is like wow so i got a story about that part so we love a good story we were at this was comstock And I was doing like swing shifts. So I was like a midnight officer, days, evenings. And it wasn't bad because it was nice to learn everything.

And like prisons are very regimented. Times are always on time, you know, stuff like that. So it was an evening shift. And I'm out in the yard with another officer. We're just walking around. And he's telling me about things. and then I'd go with another officer, and he'd tell me a little bit about, you know, how the phones work.

And there's a shack. There's a shack, and there's some slots, and he's telling me how everything works. He's like, listen, we got 10 phones. Inmates will come up, give you their IDs, and you make a group of 10, put it right there. It's like group A, let's say. Grab another 10, that's group B.

Then you call them up, hand their IDs back to them, they get on the phone and then just the cycle continues. So I'm like, okay, I think I can do that. You know, that's pretty simple. Well, it's dark out. Everything's going on, you know, and like the yard is a loud place, you know, yelling, screaming, stuff always happening. And so I got probably 10, 20 cards, ID cards in my hand.

And there's everybody's, on a bleacher waiting to use the phones and start talking to one guy and I don't even know what the conversation was about, but I was starting to like, you know, fidget with my hands kind of. You doing something with my hands? Not even thinking I take the ID cards and I start shuffling them like a deck of cards, not even thinking that they were all in order for the phone. And as soon as I did that, there's about 20 of the biggest dudes I've ever seen stand up. on the bleachers and just like get pissed instantly because they all lost their spots on how to get on the phone.

You know, like that guy's ID who was on top is now mixed into the pile. And I'm just like, my gut dropped. I'm like, worst mistake ever. And like my training officer was like, he's like, that's on you. So everything turned out well. There was some, there was some inmate there who was like, who was like, like, yo, you can't do that. Yeah, like he was, he's like, you know, I understand you're new.

You know, this was like my third day, you know, in there. He's like, so he kind of like quelled everything down, you know, he must have been, he must have been like a big advocate for a lot of stuff going on because everybody kind of talked to him. So, so thank God he was there, you know, he kind of quelled things down a little bit. Did you ever find some of like the maybe nerdy inmates or inmates that didn't really run with anyone kind of taking a liking to you because they were looking kind of like for a friend to the new guys?

Yes. And they were kind of, so kind of like the construction worker, middle class kind of people, you know, who'd always kind of try to relate somehow, you know, because like, you know, my hands are usually dirty from working. I'm an outdoor kind of guy. And so they always try to, you know, know, work something in and talk to you like that and stuff like that, just from, you know, I think there's people in there who are like great profilers, you know, and that's the thing

they tell you in the academy, too. They're like, listen, just be you who you are. Like, they'll see through bullshit, you know, don't be a tough guy. And then when shit hits the fan, you're out of there, you know, and, you know, and vice versa. So don't be a super nice guy coming off and then be an asshole once things, you know, go south or something, you know, just be who you are and they'll see it. Yeah, because they will try you. Exactly. Did you see some of the newer recruits you were with getting tried or were too soft?

I can't really specifically think of anything like that, but there have been times where, you know, I've seen a couple officers just kind of not knowing and, and, you know, there have been times where, you know, I've seen a couple officers just kind of not knowing. and run around grabbing some stuff that they need and things like that and like kind of doing doing extra stuff that was still kind of work but not necessary you know things like that so yeah that was you know always always there trying to get a little extra and and whatnot yeah it's the dynamics are always fascinating and the inmates have they get to profile like you were saying guards very well because they just they know the routine and was it like quarterly where you'd be in certain units quarterly and they'd switch you or would it how would that work oh okay so so i started

out in comstock and i really i just got thrown into any job they needed me to you know um i did that for a few months and i had it back to five points um that's where i got my first bit actually with less than a year on the job you know i was in the kitchen there and that was more I knew what my day is off, I knew what squad I was going to be, my schedule, instead of going every two weeks or every six weeks where jobs would change and they put you where you're needed, I could get this bid and I got it and I'm there all day, every day. So that was my thing for a while. Oh, that's nice.

I didn't know they did that. Yep, yep. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. So some guys love the being like a resource where they bounce around a little bit like that. But I, because I was farther away from home, it was nice to kind of get on a schedule and swap if need be, know what days off I have and schedule my life outside of that. Now, are you close with your coworkers when you're working there? Like are guys going out for eat food and drinks? Are they having each of them?

other over? So most of the time, yeah, yep, most of the time it is that. There's a lot of camaraderie in there, you know, and there's, like, I've made some awesome friends, you know, who are even, you know, miles away. But yeah, there's a lot of, you know, like, hey, we get along at work in a prison, you know, we'd probably have a great time outside. You want to grab a beer kind of thing. Yeah, because you spend so many hours with these individuals, especially when you're on overtime with them. Exactly. Do they have like showers and stuff for there for you guys? Yeah. Okay. Yep. So yeah, down the locker room, you know, stuff like that, weight room and stuff. So that's nice. But but then there's other, you know, there's, because there is so many different walks of life as

prison guards, there's some that you just, you know, you don't click with. You know, maybe they're too boring or, you know, somebody's got a weird hobby or something like that. And, you know, you guys are just opposites. What did your wife think about your job and your family members? Yeah, they all loved it, you know, because it's, for my area, it's a great, it's a great gig. It's a good job, pension benefits and stuff like that. So for, you know, my friends and my family and stuff, They were like, this is awesome, you know, good for you. You had a couple who were like, you're going to find out real quick. It's a shitty job.

You know, there were a couple of people like that, but everybody was very encouraging of it. And, yeah. How often do real, like out in the free world events affect the inmates in the prison? Like, say there's something going on with an officer involved shooting in the real world or anything, any dynamic. Any hot situation? How does that translate into the prison, the dynamics, and what are you guys doing to prepare for that? So I didn't see too much of that, to be honest with you.

I didn't see too much of it, but the big thing was the George Floyd. The George Floyd thing was a big thing going on in there. And, you know, I don't think the inmates were riled up, about it, you know, I mean, probably the straw, of course, you know, kind of rocked a lot of people. But I, from to my knowledge, there was no like revolution planned and anything like that. So that was nice. But there was a lot of common ground actually between prison guards and inmates to where we all agreed like that was bad, you know.

There's no justifying, you know, what had happened. you know, choking the dude with his knee or whatever, you know, however it went down. So there's a lot more common ground on that than expected. Were there inmates that were former cops that you guys had to kind of look out for when that, after that happened? No, not to my knowledge. You know, there were, you know, there's a, you know, in prison, you got the former cops and the, you know, former prison guards even, too, who do some shit and end up there. But they're already just kind of PC'd kind of thing and not roaming around.

What's a general consensus of those prison guards that do something corrupt and end up in prison? What do you mean? Like how are the other guards talking about them? Are they looking after them? Or are they like you kind of screwed up the badge? So, yeah, both ways, you know, both ways in the sense of like, you know, like, you know, if he was a toucher or a pedophile, like, that's no good. You know, no.

Did they call him Chalmos? Call him what? Chomos? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Chomose, diaper, you know, shit like that. So that was definitely all frowned upon, you know, no respect to there. But, you know, maybe in another instance,

it's kind of, you know, you're still like, oh, you know, we know this job gets to you. Like, yeah, I, you know, come home in a bed, you know, you see your wife fucking another man or something. You lose it, pull your gun out. Anything could happen, you know, like it's, that's the human, you know, behavior and job stress compounds and stuff, you know, not that it's relatable, but it's not, not Chomo stuff. Yeah, Chomo's at the bottom of the barrel in prison. Yeah. What were some like terms and lingoes and habits you kind of like never knew existed in the world until you worked in a prison kind of saw it firsthand? Some terms and lingoes.

Or even habits. Like for me when I went there sitting to pee as a man, I never thought was a thing. Oh, okay. So you would see things like that in prison, you know, knocking on the table. before you got up was a thing too when I was in. Oh, let me think about that one. I'm not sure. I would see guys wash their drawers, boxers separately

because they didn't want to put it in the communal laundry thing, which was so strange too. Yep, yep. Yeah, I did see a lot of that, you know, because the comments there you could get your own fabric softener and detergent and stuff like that. One thing I did pick up from it was a lot of people, a lot of inmates used mayonnaise to cook like a butter. Yeah, mayonnaise is like, and the oil in it, you can melt, extract it from it.

Yeah. So I remember I was walking down a gallery one day and I'm like, damn, it smells pretty good in here. And there's an inmate cooking like spam, spam and canned seafood was a big thing too. Oysters. Oysters. And what else? oysters, clams, I think we had. Yeah.

Around the holidays, we would get that. Yeah. So, and I'm not a big seafood person, but this person cooking was smelling good, you know? And, yeah. So I asked him, I'm like, what are you making down here? You know, he's like, he's like, I start with the mayonnaise, get it heated up and and cook up all this other stuff. And then, like, spices like crazy.

Yeah. You know what I found was really good? And I did it a couple times since I've been out. It's ramen noodles mixed with a little mayonnaise. maybe a little hot sauce because it makes it like creamy. Oh, okay. The ramen noodles. You take the water out, maybe just leave a tiny little bit in.

You mix it up with the seasoning and the mayo and it's good. Okay. I kind of miss prison food, honestly, sometimes. Like the nachos, the burritos. It's absolutely so much sodium. Oh, gosh, yeah. So there's a YouTube guy out there who, you've probably seen them, who shows you how to make prison food.

D. Peasy, is that his name? Maybe. And at the end, he's like, is it buss in or disgusting? Oh, so he's coming on the show. I was supposed to film him last week in L.A., but then I had a family thing that I had to go to, but he's going to be on the show. Oh, that's awesome. He's got like a million followers on TikTok.

He's, yeah. I love watching his videos. He's like, that's busting. Yeah. He even makes drinks. He makes drinks, too. Yeah. He makes some really good prison food.

Really cool, dude. I'm looking forward to getting him on the show. He's like the OG of it. Oh, okay. So as a correctional officer, and this is during your time, time and when this genre was kind of taking off, were you watching stuff to kind of get like a behind the scenes look at what some guys are doing? Not really.

So a couple of things, you know, and where, you know, you can find some like leaked videos from inside a prison or something like that. People got the prison cell phones and stuff. So I was watching things like that, but I'm not big on social media. So I don't really go searching too much. But I did come across a couple, you know, videos of inmates down in Tennessee and, you know, fights going on, stuff like that. It's always interesting to watch. Were there phones getting brought into your prison that you were in?

No. Okay. No. Even in 2017 now. Yeah, no. So the big thing was, you know, the K2, you know, that synthetic marijuana. That makes anybody geek right out. Yeah, I'm curious about that.

So in federal prison, guys were spraying it on paper, getting it in and they would cut the strips and sell. Like one sheet of paper would go for like five grand. So then they started photocopying everyone's mail. So you didn't get your actual mail. You got a photocopy of it. Oh, okay. How did you guys find out about it and what do you guys do to combat it? situations like that, anything that came in, getting x-rayed, getting, you know, cans were a big thing

where people, you could buy like something to seal back up a can, stuff it full of drugs, seal it back up and good. So we would do, you know, x-ray a lot of stuff. And, I mean, in that instance, you can't, you know, I don't know if we could really even tell what paper is, is laced or not, you know. So, but I have heard story similar to that where they would use, um, uh, some kind of drug, like a liquid drug, liquid ecstasy, things like that. And they would put them in a magazine to send in.

And it would only be like, okay, only put it on like the black tires of the car magazine, something like that. So there'd be specific, uh, specific areas in the magazine. that were laced and others that were not. So how you combat that? I don't know. And have you seen like some pretty crazy things from inmates using K2?

Because I've seen some wild stuff. They would put like a chair for them in the bathroom because they would just knock out and just be slumped over. Yeah, yeah. That's the big thing is the they just slump over and do that. I saw one black guy turn white.

I mean, it was, like, I thought he was dead. Like, walking dead. He was normal black guy, smoked some K2, maybe too much of it. And, I mean, he was... If you're ready to refresh your wardrobe for spring, Boehm is one of my go-to spots. They have the best everyday pieces. Think really good denim.

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He was not looking good, you know, but... And you guys couldn't test for K-2, right? No. No. I mean, not to my knowledge, because everything was just like a potpourri of stuff getting in. So... Did you ever work the phones as an office?

officer? Yes. What was it? Give me like the strangest conversation you've ever heard. Worst job ever to worst job ever. You hear all sorts of stuff, you know, but a lot of the stuff I would hear is, you know, guys begging for money and being like, man, you know, I need a new hot pod and my radio's broken, my walkman, my walkman skips and all this stuff and, you know, a lot of just kind of smoozing on the phone to get some stuff. So I tried not to, excuse me, even though, you know, you work the phones, you know, I'm not really trying to pry into the, you know, what's going on or anything like that, you know, just as long as everybody's just talking and doing what they're supposed to,

you know, there's so much other stuff going on that those conversations don't even matter to me, you know. How often are like illegal activities or schemes getting uncovered on the phones? if any at all? Or are they being smarter than that? Oh, that's a good question. I'm not sure. There's probably a good percentage because all your phone calls, I believe, I recorded, stuff like that.

But nothing has ever came across to me and was like, hey, we just heard on the phone, you know, it's going down at 3 o'clock this afternoon. You know, nothing's ever come across like that to me. Yeah, when I was at the prison camp, there was this old. guy that just came into our cell. He was a pilot. He did some type of fraud or whatever. And everyone knew at the camp when you're arranging a bag drop, like from outside. Yeah.

You do it on a cell phone. This guy did it on the wall phone casually saying, hey, drop it off at this time. You worked landscaping. Drop it off at this time at this place and I'll go grab it. That same night, we're all sitting there and three COs come to the room, grab them, handcuff them, and bring them the shoe. and no one ever saw him again. No kidding.

And we found out later it was because he said that on the phone. Yep. Yep. So, see, that must be a pattern too because not the phone part, but the outside workers. I've heard of that happening where somebody will throw like, hey, there's going to be an Arby's bag in the grass. You know, when you're mowing, pick it up. It'll have, you know, ceramic blades and it drugs in it, stuff like that. And, yeah, those outside workers, they're.

They're kept separate in Amira before that reason right there. They don't get mixed in with general population or anything like that. They got their own gallery and their own amenities and stuff like that because it is probably very easy to just get a garbage bag. It looks like garbage full of drugs or weapons and sneak it in. Yeah. So what was the craziest or weirdest thing you've seen contraband-wise smuggled in? Oh, so sometimes people would bring contraband in the old-fashioned way, the visit room.

And they get bust up from New York City to Elmira and, you know, all sorts of walks of life, you know, especially on like a hot day or something, you know, everybody's standing in line for hours to, you know, get a visit and stuff. So sometimes things get a little tense up there. Uh, there was one guy, though, and, uh, he was, he was known for always having drugs, but he can never pin it on him, you know, and, uh, he had a visit. We're keeping eyes on them, you know, and making sure nothing's coming in and all that stuff. And, uh, and there's the frisk room, uh, when you leave, when you leave visits. And, uh, something, something was going on. And we had to double-check the cameras because we heard, you know, just chit-chat talk about something, you know, got through.

And sure enough, this guy, his girl passed some, you know, big sausage full of weed or something like that. And the guys made like a circle around him. You know, other inmates made a circle around him and he was trying to put it up his butt, his prison pocket. In the prison. In the room. In the prison room, yeah. Right in plain. sight, you know, but, you know, everybody around them, it was hard to see, you know, and, you know, they might send up two guys to go talk to officers to distract them about something.

Well, this guy had a big wad of it, and it was literally a pain in the ass for him to get it up there. You know, you saw, you know, he'd pull it out, spit on it, put it back, put it back in his pants, and then he was even, he was hopping on the chair to make it fit. and it was wild, you know? And I'm like, that guy is dedicated, you know? And I mean, I don't know how much drugs go for in prison, but it had to been a large amount because for him to do that, it had have been worth it. I mean, it was a full Italian sausage.

And speaking of money, were the guards aware of what the currency was? Like, would you guys be on the lookout to make sure no one was accumulating X amount because you guys knew that was money. Yes, yeah. Cigarettes were a huge thing, you know. There were still cigarettes allowed. So, yeah, yep. So I know.

And it was, it's funny because New York State would sell the cigarettes and commissary and the tobacco and papers, but wouldn't let them smoke in their cells, don't know smoking in the building, all that stuff. So it was, you know, that was a big grife right there was, they're selling us all this tobacco, and we can't smoke it in. ourselves, which is our house, and we have to wait for our couple of hours of outside time

or something like that, you know, so that didn't really make sense. It's better than nothing, that. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, cigarettes were a big currency for there. And I found that out kind of, you know, they told you a little bit about it in the academy. But I remember walking in doing a cell frisk and some of, you know, something. high up, I want to say it was a Trinitarian gang leader, tons of cigarettes, Newport's,

all Newport hundreds or kings or stuff, you know, like that. I'm like, holy cow, you must smoke a lot, man. I didn't know, he's like, nah, I don't even smoke. And I'm like, oh, okay, yep. So it was his, it was his piggy bank. So what kind of guard were you? Were you the one that would say, oh, you're only allowed to have this many items I'm taking it, or were you the guy that would let those type of things,

So if it was a small ordeal, I'm not even worrying about it. You know, it's not, it's not worth it. You know, I mean, I kind of kind of had that mindset going in. Like every little thing has got to be accounted for, taking care of, you know, like, why are there five sugar packets over there? You know, you guys making hootch or something? Like, like, it's just, it stresses you out too much and like life goes on, you know, with somebody sneaking out sugar packets or something.

But no, it was, I was, you know, if it wasn't a huge deal, nothing crazy, let it slide. How are they? Because there's no, there's kind of no stopping it either. Yeah. How were they making hooch? In bags. They'd make a hooch in the bags where I'm not totally sure all the ingredients, but a lot of sugar, fruit, and bread.

Maybe a little ketchup, too, they would put into it. Catchup. Yep. I heard that, you know, because the ketchup has got the vinegar. So, yeah, talk about, like, a mosh pit of oranges and grapes and bread and ketchup. You're drinking mold, really, is what you're drinking. Pretty much, yeah. That's what it's, like, fermented or it's crazy.

Yep. Yep. And you can smell it, too, walking, you know, you can pinpoint who's, you know, because Almira is all all steel gates. Everything's open. So no doors type of thing. And so you smell everything. Guys are doing it in their cell or are they hiding it somewhere else?

In their cells. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's kind of ballsy. Yep. So, yeah, that's what you got to look out for is, you know, you might not, you can smell it, smell strong, but, you know, it's got to be one of these cells around here and, you know, whatever. Something you're telling me earlier is that as you were beginning your career, your brother was on the other side of the criminal justice system.

Yes, yes. So as I was going through Academy, my brother was going through Shemong County Jail for, oh, I don't know if I should say Shemong County. Going through county jail. Yeah, we could cut the Kut the Shemong part. He was going through county jail for armed robbery and breaking and entering. so which ironically turned out to be an ex-correctional officer's house that he had broken into so he was 17 at the time and and he's at this point when he does that it's he's in like full addiction mode at 17 years old he uh you know he was a big gamer sold all his sold his gaming

systems you know and TVs were missing out of the house stuff like that and I mean he was he was anything that wasn't bolted down he tried to sell you know for the drugs um so that's the state he was at uh during during this and uh they didn't catch him they didn't catch him right away um but he was 17 at the time his accomplices were minors so they kind of more got like a slap on the wrist um and then he I think they tried him as an adult. So, yeah, it was, it was tense times, you know, and I want to say before that breaking and entering as well, I'd always get phone calls about him, you know, 11, 12, midnight, getting

phone calls of my brother, just being geeked out on pills, not acting right, stuff like that. So, you know, I'd go and check up on him, try to calm him down a little bit like that. And, you know, the addiction was bad. You know, he tried running, you know, the cops had came to the house and we're all trying to talk to him and stuff like that. And he's got his backpack on and he's for some reason just like ready to run and leave. You know, and the cops were like, listen, you're not doing good. We need to talk to you, understand. So he takes off.

And in my mind, I was like, okay, I've seen, everybody has seen those cop shows, you know. know, and I'm like, they're going to tase them, they're going to tackle him, whatever. So I take after him, and I tackled him through my father's fence, broke the gate down and everything, you know, because I'm like, shit, if he's getting, you know, if he's getting tackled, I'd rather, you know, I'm not going to beat the shit out of him. I'm just going to, you know, help him out a little bit. So that happened. You know, that was kind of our dynamic.

So he got tried and he originally, I want to say he got sentenced for five years. He could have gotten out three and a half on good behavior because I think that's like us the most that he could get off was a year and a half of good behavior. And he started out in a medium, which I've never been to a medium. But from my understanding, it's still prison, but a lot more free movement than a max. So he went there and he's just coming out of that attic stage. And, you know, he's not from the big city. He's not really involved in all that stuff. But I'm guessing he probably went to prison and tried making a name for himself, you know,

not to be punked around or anything. Which good for him. But that ended up backfiring a lot because he got all his good time taken away. So he couldn't do anything. He had to do his full five years. And then he went from a medium. Then he got sent up to Clinton. Up north was the max.

And never been to Clinton, but it's not a good. I've heard of it. Yeah. We had, I think, one guy that went to Clinton on the show. Okay. So, yeah, and that's where that. That's where the big escape was. At Clinton.

Yep. Yeah, wow. At Clinton. So, yeah, he went up there. And by this time I had, by this time he had been in a prison. And, you know, I let all my supervisors know, like, hey, this is, you know, I'm a guard. He's an inmate. This is where he's at.

Just got a, you know, CYA kind of thing in case anything happens. and there was no communication between us. Just because, you know, I missed them. You know, I love them. But it's the fact that, you know, I don't want to send in pictures. I don't want to write letters and my addresses and stuff like that being leaked or something happened. You know, that was my biggest fear is, you know, my personal life getting involved with that. So I'm like, you know, he'll do his time and I welcome him with open arms when he gets out.

Did you check up on him at all when you were as an officer, were you able to look him up and see how he was doing? Yeah, you know, just public stuff. I just looked up some public information and it just kind of, I just kind of kept track of, you know, where he's going and stuff like that. So did your parents look to you for guidance to kind of see how he was holding up, kind of asked you questions. to see what his experience was like? Yeah, there was a little bit of that, you know, because, you know, they really, they really took care of him while he was in there.

Sending him lots of money. He had nice clothes, you know, sending him stuff. And they, you know, I would kind of say, you know, they didn't go without them on the outside, but they definitely, like, it put an effect on their wallet. in a sense to be supporting him as well in there. But yeah, there were times where they were like, hey, you know, he's looking to get another, he's looking to get another hot pot or he needs another TV because things are happening.

Does this really happen? Yeah, people steal your TV. People steal your hot pots, but people trade hot pots and stuff like that. And owe debts too, you know, I'm like, I don't know what to tell you, you know. I mean, so it could be a mixture of anything. So. Yeah, so many parents are curious about how their child is doing in prison and the dynamics because as inmates, you don't really want to talk about it and show as a sign of weakness

talking over the phone or tell them what's really going on. Yep. So it's great where parents can tune into a show like this. If they have a loved one in prison, they can kind of see what's happening firsthand and see the different dynamics. Exactly. Yep. So, yeah, and I told them what would make it, you know, I gave them some advice to, you know, like, listen, if you're going to send things, it's easier to send them from a third-party vendor that's already, like, checked out and everything's good.

Stuff like that, you know. So there were third-party vendors that would, you know, send it. I'm Serena Williams, and I'm healthier on Roe. I've lost 34 pounds in a year with GL-1's diet and exercise. On Roe, you can access GLP1 options, including the first FDA approved GLP1 pill for weight loss. Go to row.com

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To find a branch near you, visit poppy.com slash locations. Member FDIC. Clothes and food and stuff like that, that was the easiest way to go through. So you went into this job thinking this was going to be your life's long career, retire, get the pension and all that. But you ended up leaving after a few years. Yes. What happened? So a lot of it was COVID.

COVID really fucked a lot of things up, you know, in the prison system, at least with my experience, because, you know, it was, everything was always changing. because I don't, you know, I don't think prison system has ever had a pandemic like this before, you know. So a lot of things were getting changed, you know, it was inmates have to wear a mask, make sure they wear the mask at all times, you know, like that's not going to work, you know? And when they're done eating at the table, make sure they put their mask on and how are you going to tell 300 dudes to do that in a chow hall? You know, and now officers can have to wear masks, but they can't wear their own mask. They bring in. They have to wear the state-provided ones. And if you got a temperature, then, you know, you get scanned on your forehead walking into the building.

If you got any signs, then it's a two-week, you know, two-week quarantine paid by the state, you know. So everybody's going to milk that. Yeah, I remember when those, because I worked at Whole Foods, everyone was getting those paid things in the beginning. Yep. So, COVID kind of definitely sucked. But a big thing was just working for the state. Working for New York State was just, I didn't like it at all. You know, a lot of paperwork kind of bureaucratic environment type thing.

And it just wasn't, you know, wasn't for me. And there were numerous days where I, I'm doing 16 hours in a prison, and I'm looking outside, and it's like beautiful sunny day. Birds are singing. And I'm like, oh, man, I'm like, I'd do anything to, like, just leave right now. To have that freedom. Exactly. Yeah.

So, and I'd only do eight or 16 hours. You know, I wasn't doing like 25 to life or anything like that. Yeah, because when you're on a lunch break, you can't, like, leave, right? And go out and get something. Yeah, no, you bring everything right in. Yeah. So. It's a whole different type of job and career.

Oh, gosh. How did that make you feel leaving and walking away from something that you thought was your career path and what you were doing? And you put so much time and energy into becoming that person. And it kind of feels like a little bit of a failure aspect in that level. Yeah, there was, it was a hard decision to start with, for one. Definitely a hard decision. And you kind of build an identity, too, as a, you know, as a guard. and that's who you hang out with.

That's, you know, your whole life pretty much. If you're doing, you know, 16-hour days, you know, you're a guard your whole life. And so there is a little identity thing that was kind of like letting go of. But it was kind of a double-edged sword. You know, there was a relief of, you know, being my own boss, doing, you know, start my own business, doing what I want to do and what I love to do. But also, too, like, you can't kick your feet up at a desk and just collect a paycheck. You know, you got to pursue and go after jobs. And, you know, if you don't work, you're not making money. Yeah. Yeah. Do you regret leaving at all? No. No, not at all. So, you know, I'd seen

many guys too who, many guys who were well past their 25 year could have retired and they have a heart attack. They never see retirement, you know, or they retire and life expectancy is not that long being an ex-prison guard and they have a hard attack shoveling, shoveling their driveway, something like that, you know, and I was like, I don't know if I want to give up my prime years, you know, 25 to 50, I don't know if I want to give that up and not even enjoy retirement if I make it. Yeah. So I'm doing it, you know, kind of feel like I'm doing it a little backwards.

You know, I'm going to enjoy what I like now and love what I like and go from there. Yeah, I mean, you're trained growing up to you got to work hard and put in all these years and this and that just so you can enjoy life at 60. but look at all the people that don't make it to 60 and life is just too short to have that mentality. Yep. Like that's the way I live my life now. It's just you got to do what makes you happy now. Oh, absolutely.

Obviously you have to work and make money unless you're born into wealth and you're set on that level. But I think there's common ground where you can meet in the middle where your job doesn't have to be your entire life and you practice kind of a balance and you find something that makes you happy

because there is something out there for everyone that you could do. And now in this world more than ever, you can have your hobby and passion as your full-time gig. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So there were, yeah, once I resigned, it was people started kind of dropping off. Same thing, you know, and I mean, even guys with more time than me who, you know, over 10 years,

they're like, this isn't worth it anymore, you know, and counting it short. It's a tough job. And, you know, even more than ever, I have more respect now than I even did as an inmate myself for the correctional officers because it's hard. Oh, yeah. And I know what they're up against and interviewing them on the show. You know, it's an incredible perspective. Yeah.

I feel for them and I commend them and I know how hard it is. And you see they're struggling because now they're doing all these ads. Even the Bureau of Prisons, I see the ads, like how they're upping all the perks that come with it because they're trying to get people in the door. Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep. So, yeah, I think New York State is doing something now, too, where they're giving you

like paternity leave, like a good amount. So they got to get people in. Exactly. But then also at the same token, they got to fix a criminal justice system anyways, because I'm sure there's a lot of people in there that don't need to be in there and just restructuring it in general. Oh, gosh. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, you, yeah, there's some, you come across some people and you're like, you deserve to be in here, you know, and there's other people who are like, you know, that could have been, that could have been anybody. It really can. Yeah. You know, you punch somebody in. in the face at a bar, they fall down, they go into a coma and never wake up. Now you're in for murder. So, yeah, that happens. It's crazy. Yep. But Sam, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Yeah, thank you very much. Great chatting with you. We always love our correctional officers on the show. And glad you are doing something new with your life and you're happy doing it. Yes. And thank you for being a supporter of the show and taking the time to reach out to come on. Yeah. Thanks for having just an average show like me on here. That's what we're all about. Yeah, it's a pleasure being on here now that after listening for all this time. What were your expectations versus the reality coming into it as a listener? Honestly, it's a lot more relaxed in here than I thought.

So, and it's not as scripted as I thought either. So I thought it'd be a little bit more scripted and, you know, more in a guideline type of thing. But you just ask questions and we talk. Yeah, I've gotten, I've learned a lot about the art of interviewing. And I've come a long way from my first few episodes. So now I do it all off the top of my head. That's awesome, man. Good for you.

Thank you, bro. Safe travels back to good old Elmira. Absolutely. Keep in touch. All right. Thank you.