Locked In with Ian Bick - Surviving the Harsh Realities of Arizona State Prison | Steven Darr

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

Steven Darr shares his story of navigating life inside Arizona State Prison. In this episode, Steven talks about the events that led to his incarceration, including the choices and circumstances that landed him in prison. He also opens up about the challenges he faced inside, the lessons he learned, and how his time behind bars shaped the person he is today. From day-to-day survival to reflecting on his past, Steven offers a candid look at his journey and the insights he gained from his experience. #PrisonSurvival #ArizonaPrison #LifeBehindBars #TrueCrimeStory #PrisonExperience #SurvivalJourney #PrisonReality #OvercomingAdversity Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introduction and Podcast Origins 00:00:17 Life on the Move 00:04:30 Impact of Childhood and Family Dynamics 00:09:16 Arrest and Possession Charges 00:13:28 Legal Consequences 00:22:04 Reflecting on Personal Growth and Regrets 00:26:35 Arrest and Time in Maricopa County 00:31:08 Prison Life and Tattoos: Navigating Racial Politics 00:35:43 Prison Politics and Survival Strategies 00:39:32 Life and Survival in Prison 00:43:56 A New Start in LA: Meeting Online and Taking Hostages 00:48:06 Life on the Edge: Self-Indulgence and Consequences 00:52:57 Beginning of the Journey to Recovery 00:57:45 Entering Rehab Without a Willingness to Change 01:01:46 Starting the Journey to Recovery 01:06:29 Overcoming Adversity and Finding Purpose in Sobriety Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Absolutely. And it's so cool. A shout out to your friend for putting you onto the podcast. That's how I always tell people that's the best way for it to get more traction to people. Just sharing it with a friend, sharing your favorite episode. It goes a really long way and very grateful that we've been able to grow it. And you never know who it could help and effect. What was the first episode you listened to?

The first one I listened to was the college book scam. Oh, with Kevin. Yeah. So you just found it like a couple months ago. That wasn't the first one, but that's my favorite. Okay. I think the first one I heard was, man, I've listened to so many of them. I want to say the one cat that did the bank robberies, the little skinny guy.

Oh, he was great, man. He went so viral on TikTok. What's his name? Not George. Or was it? And he owns a duck company. Yeah. He was great, man.

And one of the other ones I listened was a girl who told her story about she got the DUI in Texas. Oh, Ariel. Yeah. That was one of those episodes. Like, you don't know how it's going to go. And then it ended up just blowing up. Like, people resonated with it because she's so innocent and just, you know, it was really good episode. Right.

She's a very nice woman. And that was her first time sharing her story. Yeah. I gave her a lot of credit for that because that's someone you would never expect. No, the criminal justice system to affect. Right, right. So did you grow up in Ohio? I grew up in part of the time when I was young, downtown, East Side, 103 in San Claire.

And then my mom, my dad was absent when I was, I never met my real father. And we ended up, my mom ended up meeting a guy at a bowling alley in Solon, Ohio. And like my mom, she was a wonderful woman. when she passed away in 2000, November 18, 2000, got breast her soul. And she put me on the lanes. I would go bowling. So I got really good at it.

And then she met a guy in the bar there. And he became a stepfather and ultimately adopted me. So we moved to Aurora, Ohio. Sea World and Jog Lake used to be there. Now it's nothing. SeaWorld was there? Yeah. Sea World.

What a random place to have a Sea World. Right? You would think like Florida, California, not Ohio. Ohio. the longest time and I moved from it was a really culture shock for me because I grew up around you know in a lower income part of Cleveland and then we moved to Aurora which is fairly affluent it's it's it's a very nice it's actually where I live now right outside of it and it's it was it was a culture shock so I always

was kind of like do my own thing kind of because I never really had a father until like their sixth grade. So my mom worked two jobs to try to support my brother and I. And then I ended up just kind of do what I wanted through high school, man. Like middle school, high school, I'd do whatever I wanted. I didn't do very good in school. I barely graduated high school. I don't remember what my grade point average was, but it was Lou. But I was just, I have a friend that always says he's addicted to his self. And that always resonates with me. I was just addicted to myself.

I did what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Everybody else be damned, you know? Did you have any siblings or was just... I have an older brother. Yeah. He's 53. He just turned 53, I believe. He's five years older than me because I just turned 49.

He's 53 or 54, I believe. Were you guys close when you were growing up? No. We lived in the same house. I don't know if we were close. Different cloth, cut from a different cloth. He was always studious and, you know, did what he was supposed to do, and I was not. The man that adopted you, your mom's boyfriend, that became her husband, was he like a

father figure to you? Yeah, absolutely. So he just kind of showed me in the way. So I actually adopted and given his last name, and he treated me like his own. He had two grown kids when he married my mother. They were in their 20s. And he took me and my brother on as, and, uh, he was a, Great man, great man. I have not got to speak to him since I got sober, but I did a lot to make him probably not want to communicate with me. It's completely all of my doing. The decisions I made affected so many, and I never cared.

I just, as long as I got what I needed or wanted out of a situation, it's all I cared about. Do you think the years prior to her meeting him, where you didn't have that father figure affected you in a big way or no? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely think so. I was young, but still, it's when you're most impressionable, you know? And then, you know, when you have to fend for yourself, as it were, you know, I had some,

my aunt and my cousins were around a little bit, but, like, it wasn't like, I didn't have, like, structure. So, yeah, I believe it did. Did you guys have money? I mean, we, not at first, but when my mom met my stepfather, our situation improved. We weren't dirt poor, but we weren't, like, we weren't rich either, you know. We, we, I had everything I wanted or everything I needed and pretty much everything I wanted, I should say. But, you know, it was never enough for a selfish person like me.

I always wanted more. What did you want to do in life? Did you have like a goal or an aspiration? No, never. I was good at bowling. I wanted to be a bowler. I wanted to be a professional bowler. I did get a chance to bowl in a couple of professional tournaments.

I did okay. But my addiction quickly took over. And my poor attitude and outlook on life was always there. I just evolved over time. Did kids make fun of you for the bowling aspect? I don't think I ever got much. made fun of, they didn't think it was normal because I wasn't, you know, I think that's late 80s, early 90s. I'm doing that because I was born in 75. So it wasn't like, I wasn't a cool.

I mean, I wasn't, I was fairly cool because then I started when I got into high school, I started going to the amusement park across the street, jog Lake that I mentioned, and I would play beach volleyball. So I slimmed out. I was always a little chunky kid like I am now, for example. And I, uh, I, uh, I, uh, slimmed up, got a tan, grew my hair turned blonde, and I was a volleyball for like all, I never really had a job in high school. We used to go to that amusement park and I would play volleyball and we would hustle tourists because we were there every day. We'd play two on six and we made money doing that.

And that's when I started experimenting with a lot of the drinking and the drugs and stuff like that. What was your first drug that you tried? Well, I tried alcohol and then it quickly became marijuana and then hallucinogens, shrooms, acid, and then progressed from there. What drew you to those types of drugs? I was a way to escape my, I always felt that was less than her insecure. Even though we had girls hitting on us and stuff back then, I just felt less than. I didn't, I don't know, man.

It's a tough, it's a tough question to answer sometimes. it got me, it took away the fear of everything I had, fear of success, fear of failure. It just, it made me a different person. I was cooler, I was smarter, I was better looking, you know what I mean? So what happens after that? You start dabbling into drugs? This is right out of high school? Right out of high school.

I moved to South Carolina. I've lived in a lot of places. That's cool. Nine different states. since I was like 17 to 45. Probably a great experience. Oh, well, the problem was... Aside from the crime.

The problem was I always took me with me, you know? I always thought a geographical cure would fix everything. Like, I could move here and I'd be fine. And I like to run away from my problems. Not so much now, but I've learned how to stand and face things. And I could never do that before. I was just, I would get in trouble. Like, I got in trouble in South Carolina,

and I had some some Vicodin pills and it was a weird experience. My friend from Ohio came down. We ate a whole bunch of acid and went playing in the woods in the middle of the night and got all muddy. We were walking back to my apartment and these cops pulled up on us. It was like three in the morning and there was a bunch of lights and they didn't know what we were doing. We didn't have

anything illegal on us but they came to my house the next day. And I had some Vicodin pills. So it was my first for a set of felonies. Wow. What did you get charged with your drug possession? I think I got what was it?

What was the exact charge? It was a long time ago. It was 95, 94. I'm trying to think of the exact charge. Possession of a controlled substance, I believe is what it was. And it was 14 counts because I had 14 pills.

And I never realized that that comes into effect later when I went to prison because they alleged 14 felonies. 14 priors on me. And I had a couple other ones in between there. How did your mom feel about you moving away to a different state? You know what? I never considered her feelings when I moved away. I just did it. Like I had a little red Honda prelude. I was super cool. You know, playing volleyball.

And come to find out, like the girl I'm dating now, Jennifer, she's an amazing girl. And I guess she had a huge crush on me. Everybody thought I was really cool, apparently. And I didn't do it. Like when I, I, I approach. heard you ask people, what would people say about you when you were in high school and stuff? And I got biggest rebel and always absent in the yearbook. And I beat out a kid who had mono for like more than half the year. Wow, what a great award. We didn't have that. I probably would have got that. I would have been the year. I would have been the year. I would have got biggest rebel. Yeah. So that's what people thought of me, I think. You know, but

And then I've ran into somebody recently who was my girlfriend in high school's younger sister's friend. And I guess I used to take them McDonald's all the time. And they thought Steve Dar was so cool. I didn't see it. But I guess that's what other people thought at one point, which kind of blows my mind. Because I never saw that. You know what I mean? Do you feel like you're trying to escape something by leaving to a different state so fresh out of high school?

Absolutely. I run from my problems. Like I got the pre-trial intervention for that first thing in South Carolina, and the first thing I did was came back to Ohio. Like, I was out. I didn't deal with it. I actually, when I got my license back in 2021, because I didn't have a license for 99 to 2021,

I just drove everywhere without a license and did whatever I wanted. I had to pay South Carolina $400 still from 1995 to get my license back here in Ohio. Oh, wow. So you go back to Ohio and then... Then it really gets crazy. I find cocaine and I start dabbling with that. And then I get pain pills come in. I've heard this plenty of times on this on your podcast.

Pain pills is just the doorway to the big boy, the big boy stuff. And that's what eventually happened. Like it became far too expensive for me to get pain pills. I was doctor shopping at one point. I did have a job for a short time with Firestone. I was a sales associate at the tire company, and I got insurance, so I'm going to eight different doctors getting Scrippsville.

And this is still in the 90s, so it hasn't, it's not like it is today, where you could, where the, I don't even know, DNA, FDA. They hadn't battened down on the doctors back then. Yeah, like you could go. And by the time the scripts caught up to the FDA or whoever they go through, you know, you had time.

And that's not like that anymore. I wouldn't assume, at least. But, yeah, I was going to different doctors, different pharmacies. I found I could go to this doctor, fill his script. I heard this from Kevin, the college book thing. And he would, you know, he would go to one doctor, take it to CVS. Another doctor take it to Walgreens. Another doctor would take it to a mom and pop.

I was heard him say that. I was like, holy, shit. That's exactly what I did. Yeah, it was just way too accessible back then. Yeah, absolutely. And then it doesn't until it's not. And then you got to find, like, I moved up to the big boy stuff. I moved up to heroin.

But it's almost like it's just as accessible now, just in a different way. Yeah. Because, like, you could call, like, I could go through my contacts and probably find five people that could get me any drug I wanted, like if I was a drug user. Right. So I don't need to go to a doctor to get that. Yeah, and back then it was easier to do it that way. I didn't, like, I was so naive and stupid at that point that I didn't think I was doing anything wrong.

Like, I thought, I'm going to a doctor. I'm going to a pharmacy. You're just trying to make yourself feel good. Yeah. How many discounts does USA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi vehicle discount. Safe driver discount.

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Kind of, you know. your insurance would cover those scripts fully? And the doctors are just, what would you say that you had an issue? I would just change my primary care to that doctor before I went into their office. Wow. Yeah, it was insane. And no one ever flags at all back then. Oh, he got flagged because the sheriffs did show up in my house eventually and take me to jail for that.

Oh, you got ticket to jail for that. Yeah, that was back in Ohio. I ended up getting arrested for that. So another set of felonies. Did they see that you had warrants on you from the other? I didn't ever have a warrant from South Carolina. line on. I just didn't complete the program. So they didn't want to re-charge you thing? I guess, yeah, I guess not. Like, look, God doing for me what I couldn't do for myself, man. Like, I had all these

chances, you know, and I didn't go to prison until I was 36. You had a long run. Yeah, a real long run. And I never did anything by the letter of the law before that. You know, it almost makes it worse to go to prison that late because you spent all those years, like, drug addicted. Like, if you got that cut off early on, it's almost better. Absolutely. Like, I went to prison very young. I know. I got through that and it's behind me, but I can't imagine going to prison like at this age after already having things established.

Yeah. And then looking back on it. I didn't have anything established. I didn't have anything to lose. No, but maybe you would have if you got in a prison at like 20. Right. Yeah. And like what you're doing, man.

Amazing. That's good stuff, man. I appreciate that. I appreciate that you're doing this and giving people this platform. So I'm a nasty. Yeah. Right. And I hear talked about on here a lot is like if we can educate,

if we can let people know how difficult it is once you get out, I know that's still coming up in my story, but if we can get people opportunities, like a lot of people don't have the opportunity that I've had out of prison to get a job that I have and become semi-successful at what I'm doing and I'm still growing and getting better. But a lot of people don't have that opportunity. And we talked about it before the show,

the recidivism rate is. insane. It's, it's, and I heard it said by a governor somewhere once, maybe Kentucky. I was listening to an interview. We need to figure out who we're afraid of and who we're mad at and separate the two. You're mad at a drug addict. You're not afraid of a drug addict, you know, like the people that need to be in prison, in my humble opinion, are people that you're afraid of, not people you're mad at, you know? Maybe if we get those people some help, I thought that was an interesting quote when I heard it. And even the people that have committed murders that have come on the show, you're not afraid of them.

Right. You know, they've changed their life and they've done what they've done. And, you know, if they were a scary person, they wouldn't come here. They wouldn't sit down with me, you know, if that was the case. And they know coming into it, they're going to get asked questions, you know? Right. So that's half the battle, being willing to be asked those questions and come and sit down. Right.

So I think that's always an interesting aspect to it. For sure. So you now are charged in Ohio by the sheriff. if what happens with that case? I go to Summit County Jail and they get me into this, what's it called? Man, I should have wrote notes down.

I'm getting so old. Community Corrections or something? Yeah, no, community-based correctional facility. So it's like a rehab. My first, I never looked at it that way before. I guess that was like a rehab. Like, that was in 2000.

I watched the, the, the, September 11th in there now that I think about it, man, it's in a long time. But they put me in there and, you know, I make it through. I'm a good bullshitter, man. I'll tell you what you want to hear and make you believe it, you know.

So I bullshit my way through that and I get out and it's still on my record, but I complete the program and I get out and I start running again, man. At that point

See what happened then I moved to Columbus With a friend of mine And then I quickly burn that bridge And you're like 26, 27 now Yeah, let me think You've born 75 and then 2001 So yeah

Okay Right around there And then my mom passes away Well my mom passed away before that 2000 November 18th 2000 So then I get in all that trouble afterwards And I'm hiding from that too, you know. I'm burying that down with, I don't ever grieve or confront anything. I just

use and bury it down and not think about it anymore. So I end up in Columbus, Ohio at one point, and I meet this guy who's from Biloxi, Mississippi, and we're both a train wreck. I'm working at a bar as a bartender, like, and I meet him there. He's a customer, and he's got an apartment in the same place I do. and I never pay rent or anything. I get these apartments. I live there until they evict me.

That's how I knew how to live life. No downpayments, nothing? I mean, I would get, you know, first month, but then I would lose my security deposit. I didn't care. You know, I'd get five, six months out of it and then move on to the next place. Every landlord's worst nightmare.

Yeah. So I meet this guy and he's like, you know what? I'm going to go back to Biloxi. He's like, why don't you come with me? And this is $2,000. 2004, 2004, 2005-ish, I believe. And we go down, I think it was 2004

because it was right before Hurricane Katrina. So we make it down there. I'm living with this family. I end up getting an apartment with this other cat who's in the military. And Hurricane Ivan hits. So that was my first experience in hurricanes. And that one wasn't that bad.

We went outside and made funny little videos and, you know, pretend that they were new. casters and we're out running around in it, smoking pot, you know, have a good time drinking. And then things get crazy for me. That buddy I moved down there with, his dad introduces me to needles. And I start shooting up cocaine. And the progression of my disease is crazy. Like, it gets bad quick.

And then Hurricane Katrina hits. And we're on the roof of our house, my buddy's house, for like 48 hours, like watching bodies flow by and like craziness, you know, just it was hurricanes you just used to batten down the hatches and have a hurricane party. Get whatever substances are your favorite and party it through, you know, until the lights come back on. And it quickly turns horribly, horrible. A lot of people, you know, destruction down there was nasty.

But we, I end up in with, after that, I end up in Cincinnati. Ohio somehow. Newport, Kentucky. I think I was dating this girl and her family was from there. But I'm a train wreck at this point. I'm a hard-coraned, a lot of drugs, mostly cocaine, and I'm drinking, you know, this, that, whatever. My brand's what do you got?

You know, a friend that says that all the time. What do you have? That's what I'll use. So I end up in Indianapolis, Indiana for the second time. I forgot. I moved around a lot, man. Like, it's hard to keep up with all the places I've been, but I end up in Indianapolis, Indiana again.

And then it starts getting, then I start getting big into methadone and stuff like that. How does it make you feel looking back on it that you spent those, you know, last years leading up to your mom's death and kind of like on the move and an act of addiction? It just shows my level of selfishness. I feel horrible about it, you know? I could have been there for my mom, you know.

I could have done a lot of things to be present and be accountable to them. But I just, I was so self-involved and what Steve wanted to do. And I thought I was living the dream, man. Oh, I'm moving wherever I want. I'm doing what I want. Nobody tells me what to do. You know, that's my mindset, the insanity. you know.

Yeah, it's hard after the fact because you never, you know, get that time back. Right. When someone leaves your life unexpectedly, whether it's a death or whatever, you know, you kind of, as you get older, you reflect on that. I think about, you know, people that have left in, like, high school and, you know, in the years after, it's, it makes you just think about things in a deeper way. Right. I agree. I was just, man, I was just, I looked back on it in the selfishness was just insane. insane to me.

Like, how could, the person you see sitting in front of you today is not the person that was back then, man. Like, it was in me to be a good person and try to help others and try to, and try to live a decent life. It's just, I didn't care. I didn't, I just didn't care. I just wanted to do what I wanted to do. And that was the end of it.

Is there something you wish you could have said before she passed to her, too? I was there. Well, actually, when, when she did pass, I was, uh, actually. the hospice place in the east side of Cleveland and the Ohio State Michigan game was on. It was a Saturday. It was the 18th, I remember. And I was like, I was dating this girl or whatever.

And I was like, you know, I'm going to go home, grab something to eat and watch some of the game. I go home, sit down. And I get a phone call and she had passed. And to say anything to her, no, I wish, you know, saying, I said a lot of things. I always apologized and, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that.

I wish I could have just shown her the person that I could be saying things. It's all about action to me today, man. Words are great, but if there's no action behind it, then you're just talking. Now you're in your early 30s. You're hooked on methadone. What happens next? Oh, man. So I get, I'm trying to put the timeline together.

Um, so I get to, uh, back to Cleveland. I would bounce, like I said, come and go. You know, I would be in town for eight months, six months, and then I'd run back out somewhere else. And then, why do you think you would always go back to Cleveland? Did you have something there that was? No. Yeah, so what was that, that psychological?

Just a home thing, I think. It's just, that's, that's, that's, that's where the heart is type of thing. Like, that's, that's, that's, that's my stomping ground. That's where I'm comfortable the most. And, uh, I would always be running from something, you know, whether it was a burnt relationship or the law or something stupid I had done. I just, it got to a point where I couldn't show my face anywhere anymore because I burnt every bridge all the time.

So I get out there and then I was speaking before the before this about my friend who was in Fort Dix. He was like, you know what? I got a friend in Arizona and she, she'll put you up and you go out there and you can get your life straight. God, what a horrible, horrible idea that was in retrospect. So I go to Arizona and then what I like, heroin is readily available. Easiest place to ever get it that I could go and get it.

And then methamphetamines creep into the situation. And then there was always these lines I said I wouldn't cross. You know, after I stopped using needles with cocaine, I said, no, I'm never going to shoot up heroin. You know, never do that. Never do that. And those lines always got jumped over, leapfrog, jumped. And, yeah, I'm full-fudged heroin addict at this point.

And then things go sideways in Arizona, and I run back to Ohio for a few months, for like three months. And then I was like, you know what? I can't do what I want here. I'm going to go back. And then this is where it really falls apart for me. This is where I get to experience my first stint in prison. Well, first and only, thank God.

I go back and, man, all the stuff I've done over the years, I get arrested for selling a stolen cell phone at a pawn shop. A cell phone? Trafficking stolen property, among other little drug charges and stuff. Yeah, possession of heroin, possession of drug paraphernalia. There was a plethora of things I got arrested for. But I get, so I get to go due time in Maricopa County, Arizona, Sheriff Joe Pio's joint. That's the famous one.

Yeah, well, it's not that anymore because there's a new sheriff now. Thank God. Because, man, that was some of the roughest time. I've done a lot of county stints in places. But that was, man, it's a, it's, I don't want to use the term gladiator school. but man, I didn't know joke. The politics out there is crazy. Is that the one that was like in the desert?

Yeah, they had the Tenth City, but that was for sentenced inmates. There was three other, there was El, there was Durango, Fourth Ave, and one other one. And then Tenth City was for sentenced county inmates. So if you got a year county time, they would throw you in the tents. I never did that. I got sentenced. So I'm in county. for like in Durango for like uh like four or five months and I finally finally get my public defender

because I never afford attorney right I got I got a pot to piss in or anything so uh he tells me that I'm gonna get probation and I'm gonna get out so I go to court I wake up that day and I'm pumped man like in in Maricopa County you get two meals a day one at five in the morning and then you get your slop at 7 o'clock at night. And I've found pebbles in that stuff before. He would feed you two meals a day. The morning meal was a little loaf of bread, a plastic bag of peanut butter, a grapefruit, a milk, and an oatmeal cookie.

And that had to last you for the rest of the day because I don't have anybody putting money on my books. So I'm surviving in jail. And I go to this, I go to court, and I'm behind this little window, shackled, wearing my stripes, my pink socks, my pink underwear. And my attorney comes up to me, my public defender comes up and goes, hey, why didn't you tell me you had 14 prior felony convictions?

I was like, what? You know, I'm completely dumbfounded. He's like, you're not going home today. I was like, well, when am I going to go home? Not that I had a home at this point. I'm living in hotels and, you know, just being a detrimental society for the most part. And he goes, well, three and a half years of my stomach dropped. Like, to have your freedom taken away is something that, I don't know, if you don't

experience it, you don't know the feeling, you know the feeling that just that helplessness. Like, that's it, man. You're a word of the state at that point. You don't even have a name anymore. You're a number. I went back and cried, man, and crying in that place. I had to hide in my bunk.

And I cried 36 years old, crying like a little baby. Like, man, what did I do? How did I end up here? How did this happen? You know? So I get introduced to the Arizona Department of Corrections. Interesting, to say the least. What was that first day like when they transferred you out of county?

because that was your, you know, you kind of understood what county was, but this is your first prison. Right. So they transfer you to a place called Elhambra, downtown Phoenix, on 21st Street, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. And it's a reception center, you know. You get brought in, the line, stripped out, bend over, squat, you know what I'm saying? You know the drill. And then they classify you. And you're in a big room with 30, 40, 50 other people.

There's a couple of bunks, but mostly you're laying on a floor and a mat. There's no air conditioning. It's swamp coolers and 115 degree heat. And you get classified, you know, and you wait to get shipped out to your fierce yard. I think it took 28 days. Sometimes it takes two weeks. I ended up ultimately going back there and working as an inmate worker at that El Hamra. Two years into my sentence.

You have to apply, and I'll get to that. But that was, so I get down, I touch down in Buckeye, Arizona, at Bachman. I'm a medium to moderate custody, you know, minimum ultimately after, you know. But I see crazy stuff off rip, man. People stab, getting beat up. I'm terrified, man. Scared. Real scared.

I got a 13 tattooed on my neck, and there's a story about that. In prison? No, that was there. And then I'm in prison in Arizona with a 13 on my neck. And if you know anything about that, the Mexican population is pretty big. And they came up to me in there, you know, what's this? It's this. I was like, man, I'm from Ohio, bro.

It's my lucky number. And that's what I had the lucky put on it by the head of the Mexicans came up and talked to the head of the whites and said, hey, man, we're going to do something about that. I didn't have any money to pay for a tattoo in prison. You know what I mean? I'm on my own, man. I'm getting no, for the first couple months, I had this girl in Ohio that would shoot me a few bucks a month on my commissary. And I'm going without a TV.

I'm doing hard time. Like, no help, no letters, no phone calls. And you've been around, I'm sure, people in the joint where they don't get any help from the outs. And that's a rough. My name is McKenzie. And I started to go fund. me for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child, the mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with

living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed. We had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform trusted by over 200 million people. Start your go fund me today at gofund me.com. That's gofund me.com. This podcast is supported by Gofund me.

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Way to do time, man. All on your own. So the whites made you cover it up? The Mexicans talk to the whites about putting something on it just because I guess the MS-13 thought it was offensive. Because you're in Arizona, you know what I'm saying? There's four brands out there. You got the Kim folks, the Chicano's, the Paisas, and the Pecker Woods, man.

That's what you got. And you run with your race. You know, very, very political. Got in a fight when I was first there. I guess some guy, big Mexican guy with L.A. tattooed on his chest. said I dused up in county and I never doced up in county. Excuse me.

There was an instance where I was in county and I was detoxing real bad so they would take you to medical every once in a while. And I walk past this dude in Maricopa County and he's got a milk crate and he's got thermals on because you can get thermals if you're a trustee. and he's looking real agitated and nervous and crazy. He's holding a milk crate in his hand. And I walked by him and I was like, everything was cool, bro, you know? Like five minutes later, that dude hit the fence and tried to escape.

And they come in and I guess they look. I got my, you know, my marker, like flashing this green and blue tattoo on my arm. And he, like, they look on the cameras and they see me talking to do. right before he hits the fence and the lieutenant, the LT comes up and goes, one of the officers goes, that's him.

I'm laying in bed dying, bro. Like, I'm just on my rack trying to make it through. And they throw me in the hole. And I guess that was perceived as me deusing up. Which means checking in? Yeah, checking in. Like looking for safety? Yeah, yeah.

And so they leave me in there for like eight days. No blanket. I end up biting the mattress open and tearing the top of it off and crawling inside the. mattress. I'm in bad shape, man. Like, I'm in bad shape detoxing. And I finally

get a cop to listen to me. Finally, like, man, why am I in here? What do? And they thought I was part of helping that dude escape. And I was like, what the, why am I in? Like, what did I do? They never even said anything to me. They just threw me in the hole and

walked away. I guess they were supposed to interview me at one point, but they never did because they ended up catching the guy. His girlfriend, he jumped the fence. His girlfriend picked him up outside and like 24 hours later they caught him. So I'm in the hole for like six days and I'm just like, so they finally let me out. And then that's when I get, into a pod and then that stuff happens with my lawyer later on. And so I get, when I get shipped out to the yard, I'm like, man, this is, they come up to you, they check your paperwork.

And who comes up to you? Head of the whites. And he's the shot caller? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. As far as the as far as your race goes, you know what I mean? And then there's the rules, man. The politics on the West Coast or something different, man. I've never been, I've never done time anywhere but there, but I've got a bunch of friends who have done time in Ohio and on the East Coast and the politics out there on the West Coast. I'm assuming that the prison guards want it like that

because if you're not united, you know, as long as you're at each other, you're not at their throats, right? So there's the typical, well, they check your paperwork to make sure you're not a piece of shit. You know, chomo, rat.

And then they got people, you know, on the outside checking things too, I'm sure. But, yeah, and then they ask you how you want to do your time. You want to, you know, you just want to keep your head down and do it? Or do you want to, you know, you want to put in work or whatever?

I was like, man, I just want to keep my head down and get the fuck out of here, you know? and then there's the don't sit on another race is bad. There's the don't break bread with anybody else. Never share a smoke with another race. Stick with your own, basically. You know what I'm saying?

If shit goes down, you lace up and you do what you got to do. So you chose to not run with the whites. Oh, I ran with the whites. I just, I minded my business. They give you an opportunity to put in work or whatever. You know, do you want to do something or do you just want to keep your head down and get through? No, I absolutely ran with my race.

Oh, so you still have to run with them and be a part of the shenanigans. Yeah, if something goes down, you never turn on your race, you know what I mean? So when the MS-13s came to them about the tattoo? Oh, they were cool about it. So they weren't like a... Oh, no, it wasn't contentious or anything. It's just saying, man, we're not, we're not, you know, that's not cool. You know what I mean?

He's got that on his neck. Can we do something about it? In the whites, we're like, yeah, we'll do something about it. I'm sure they had their little... Would they pull you the side and put a tattoo on you right then? No, they asked me what I wanted to do with it. And I was like, can I put like lucky on it or something? So it wasn't like forced.

It was my decision. I didn't have to do it. Okay. But I did it because respect, you know? So what would have happened if you didn't get that? I don't know. I'm glad I didn't find out. No telling.

You know what I'm saying? Like, at that point, I'm just trying to get by, man. I don't want any problems. Look at me. I'm not exactly what you'd call it. a cage fighter. I mean, if it goes down and I got a fight, I'll fight. But I'm a lover, man.

Was that a maximum security facility? There was max yards on it, absolutely. Bachman, there's Steiner. Man, I can't remember the names of all. It was a two to three, two to three yard. You know what I mean? Level custody. In Arizona, there's twos, threes, fours, and then max.

You know what I'm saying? I never made it up to that high stuff. And I cried and wasn't bad enough in my, I tried to keep my head down and stay out of shit. You know what I'm saying? Little stuff here and there. You know, cops are always looking to write somebody up. Yeah, how are the guards out there?

Were they going for the politics of the presidents? Okay, so if, oh, yeah, they ride with it. If you go up to the bubble, got to have somebody with you. Don't ever go talk to a cop by yourself. That's part of the things that they tell you, you know? Those are part of the things that you do. If you got to go talk to a cop, don't go by yourself. yourself, for any reason, even if it's to get you, you know, even if they call you up to get

your mail, you just somebody, take somebody from your race with you. And then if you don't, they automatically label you as a snitch. Not automatically. There's questions, though. You know what I mean? It's just you're expected to do certain things and they break this all down to you when you get there and you do it. Or, yeah, I've seen, I've seen people get run off the yard quick, man.

They give you a chance. Like, they check your paperwork. They don't like what they see. They say, roll it up, or we're going to kick your ass and then roll it up for you. So I've seen that happen on several occasions. How is a food there on a day-to-day basis? Absolutely horrible. Really?

Yeah, and I got in, I mean, you get it. There's no friends in prison, man. You know this. There's no friends in prison. Like, you can have people that you're cool with, but I never trusted anybody. I just, but did people break bread with you? You know what I mean? You get decent people.

I didn't have, like I said, I was working with what the state was giving me, man. You know? And then you get a little job or whatever, and they pay you. Let's see, I made $8 a week, I think. So I had that little amount of money. So to your point, the food that they give you, they say it's a healthy menu. But when you first get through, you work in the kitchen. And it's, you know.

Oh, they stick you in the kitchen first. Oh, yeah. Well, that's your first job, yeah. That's like a good job in the feds. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a good job in any, in any prison situation, but, you're washing dishes. I want to wash dishes, man. You know what I'm saying? But I did it.

And then you can move up. I did education at one point. I helped people with their GEDs and stuff like that because I'm not an idiot. So I can help people that, you know, that was cool. I got to help some people there. And then I get bounced to Kingman after that. Like I was there for like six months, I think. My bed, let me tell you something about Bachman.

My bed was in the corner on the bottom bunk, which was really great to get a bottom bunk. But like the corner, and then you're in the middle of the desert in Buckeye, Arizona, 120 degrees, the middle of summer. And then cinder blocks cook. And then you get in your bed at night with a wool blanket. and it feels like you're even putting in an oven. I've never had acne in my life,

but my back broke out something fierce. Oh, it was absolutely horrible. No AC at all. No, that's swamp coolers at that point. But then I get moved to Kingman, which is a private prison. Why'd they move you? They just do it.

I guess they get a feel for you and see what you're going to do, and then they just do moves randomly, you know? I get to Kingman, and I'm like, wow, this is the Hilton compared to where I was, air conditioning, but there's 200 people in a big dorm style setting, you know, and you got no privacy. You know, it's, oh, another thing about it is there's white drinking fountains, there's white toilets. Oh, like a race.

Yeah, yeah. You use these certain toilets. Use these certain showers. Yeah. It was that segregated. Yeah. And I think it's intentionally done that way. Was it mostly just spanish.

Spanish and white in Arizona? There's a small population of Kim folks. Small population of blacks. A lot of Mexican nationals, Pisas, and then Chicano's, you're American Mexicans. You know what I mean? You're not antonios or Serenios. You know what I mean? And they don't associate with the whites?

So the Pisas are kind of with the blacks and the Chicanos are kind of with the whites, I guess, if you could say that. Everybody's pretty much on their own. but if shit goes down, like there's some common ground, I guess. So if I'm correct, I believe that's the way it was, man. Don't quote me. I don't want to be a knock on my door later on because you said this. But like it's just very segregated.

Like you said, it's very, it's just stick with your race and that's it. Does time move slow or fast when you're in a state prison like that? Man, once you get into a routine, it kind of rolls by. Yeah, I had a guy tell me, when I got there that that like when you get out it's going to be like it was a dream

I was like dude I'll never forget this I'll never ever ever ever and now that I look back on it it was just like it was a bad dream like it happened it's over you're out and you're moving on like it's I never thought I was like

no I'll never forget this you know but he was kind of right in an odd sort of way it's just like it was a blink of the eye now that I think about it three and a half years isn't that much time you know how important do you think that experience in prison was for you to kind of like alter the rest of your life

yeah it didn't because I got out and right back to the races man I got out in 15 and uh I uh I so I meet this girl online it always has to do with a girl well yeah I mean I do something I can call

take hostages not in that way but I don't like have healthy relationships. I just find somebody and I leach off of them. You know what I mean? So I take a hostage. I do what I want to do. So I go out to L.A. The day I get off parole, she's waiting there.

She ran into the truck to take what little I had. And I moved in with her in Riverside. We'd spend some time in L.A. and in Riverside. So, and I get a job for like seven months, right? Selling Christmas trees at a place called Moon Valley. nursery. They need some seasonal help. And I ended up staying on there for a little while.

I make it through the season. They're like, here, we want you to drive this bobcat or whatever. And then I have my first of four strokes. I have three strokes because I'm using, I'm right back to methamphetamine. I'm doing Suboxin because when I get out in Arizona, I'm starting, I go right back to heroin, right? And I'm on parole. And my parole officer, I felt like four or five drug tests.

He calls me, he's like, I need to talk. to you. It's like, shit. So I called that girl in L.A. I say, man, I think I'm going back to the joint tomorrow. Finish out my time. I think I got like seven months left on my bid. And so she comes, she drives all night and gets there. And then we make an appointment for an addiction doctor in Scottsdale. And I get in and I get on some box and I go to my parole office from, look, I'm trying to get help, you know. I tried to bullshit him, you know, like I always do. I try to bullshit my way out of a situation. It's what I do. And he's like, I'm going to give you another chance.

And I stayed on Suboxone. I finished my parole and I got the fuck out of Arizona. And so I go to L.A. and I get that little job. I have those strokes. And then when I got out of the hospital from having those strokes, I'm like, I don't have to work anymore. I'm going to apply for unemployment.

You know what I'm saying? And I don't get that. So I'm right back to doing whatever. I used to Home Depot. What would you do at Home Depot? I would get a big rubber made tote and fill it up with tools

and just walk out with it a couple thousand dollars on tools and then sell them on Facebook Marketplace. Oh, wow. But this is kind of fairly recent so they didn't, that the alarm didn't go off or anything? Oh, it did.

I just didn't care. And they're not going after you? I mean, they're not supposed to touch you. I just, I would just, it's all about like you're supposed to be doing it. You know, people would look and be like, oh, I'm sorry. You know, just give them a little.

wave. Yeah, tools can't be like traced or anything, so you can easily steal tools and sell them on Facebook marketplace. There you go. Wow. So that's what I did for a long time. How much money would you say you made off of that? If I got a right hit, I'd tell everything at 50%, so I'd be like, uh...

That's a good return. Yeah, it was all right. Yeah, it kept my drug cap going, you know? Wow. Are you banned from Home Depot? I did walk. I've been pretty good as of the last few years, so... And that was mostly on the West Coast.

I never really messed with anything here. I did walk into a Home Depot. I can't remember exactly what Chino, California wants. And somebody walked up to me and said, you should leave. A staff member did? I'm pretty sure it was lost prevention. It's like, you should just leave. I was like, okay.

That was a long time ago. This is years ago. Did you hit the same Home Depot twice? Oh, yeah. I was insane, bro. I was doing what I needed to do, you know? So, yeah. The Home Depot banned it.

Oh, man. So what happens next? I go to, so that girl finally gets some sense. And I'm verbally abusive at this point. I'm not physically abusive. I'm not beating anybody up, but I'm verbally abusive. And I think since I helped her fix her house up, and she's paying all the bills that she owes me something,

you know what I'm saying? Because, you know, I'm selfish. And I'm an addict. And I wanted to do things on my own. or do things for me and not for anybody else. So she finally gets some sense and gets a restraining order against me. It kicks me out.

And then this is where it gets crazy, huh? So this is where it really comes to an end for me. For about a year, I'm out. I got a little bit of money. I applied for unemployment because I didn't get disability. And I get like $11,000 on a little bank card. I'm like, oh, man, here we go.

They gave you $11,000? Yeah, yeah, five for unemployment. And that was right COVID time. Yeah. So, yeah. Oh, and everything was like double or triple. Yeah, yeah. Holy cow.

Yeah, so, and what's the best thing to give a heroin addict? $11,000. So I get myself a little car and a motorcycle and I, and I trailer it. And I'm going from, I'm driving from L.A. to Ocala, Florida. And I got stops along the way along the I-10. And like I stop and I tell this story. I told the story of my first lead. I stop and like I go to, I fly through Arizona.

I want nothing to do with Arizona. So I get into like a little part of New Mexico. I would do something there. Find a Home Depot in a little town and do whatever I got to do, Lowe's Home Depot, whatever the case may have been. And then I go to El Paso, San Antonio, Houston. I make a stop in New Orleans. Slydel, Louisiana, and then I go to like Gulfport, Mississippi,

uh, Blexi, Mississippi, where I still have some people that I know. And then Mobile, Alabama, and then Pensacola, Florida, and then down through Tallahassee and Gainesville. And I'm back and forth, like, uh, driving back and forth up and down the I10. Like, it's my job. Like, I think I did it four times in six days once, back and forth, back and forth, back in six, like, 9,600 miles and, um, six, like, six, like, nine, six hundred miles and, six days.

Wow. Yeah. And then things get bad. Like I end up in New Orleans. And I had gotten my car toad in, I start detoxing in Florida. And I'm able to do enough to get it back. And I don't have a license or anything at this point. I have an ID and I have fictitious plates.

I don't have insurance. And these tow companies in the middle of country places, I guess they don't care. As long as you give them their money. So I get my car back. I was like, man, I'm going to, I get a, I get a couple weeks, I'm not going to call it sober. I get a couple weeks without doing drugs, we'll say. In Florida, and I said, man, this is, screw this. I go back to New Orleans where I, you know, I know some people.

You know, I used to do this thing where I would stop in each city and find some homeless people. And they, you know, where the heroin's at. So I would give them money to take me to the dope boy. And, you know, everybody's happy, right? I get my dope. I'm helping somebody in my, in my, in my, you know, mind. And so I know this guy, and I get this, I go and hook up, and I'm going to this hotel. I always stay at New Orleans. It's in Kenner, actually, outside of, not right, about 15 minutes from

downtown New Orleans. And I do a bump. And at this point, I'm not doing heroin anymore. It's all fennie. It's all fentany. It's all fentany. You know? And I black out, and I start driving my car, and I black out and I hit somebody and take off and then I hit somebody else and my car won't move anymore and I got everything I own in this car and I take off running. On foot and I hide underneath a semi because I think somebody's chasing me.

I don't know if they are or not but I saw a truck following me and jump in a dumpster. I hide in there and then I get under this semi and I lay there for like two hours. and just wait, and I get out, and I call, I use my, use some lady's cell phone to report my car stolen. And this is when I end up under a bridge, man. I got nothing at this point. I got that guy that I know who has a tent under the I-10 on St. Charles right by the Garden District.

And all downhill from there, baby. Like, I get, I have my fourth stroke under that tent, or under that bridge in that tent. Can't use my arms. I can't wash myself. I can't even use my drugs anymore because I can't use my arms. So I get on the streetcar and I ride down to the French Quarter on the streetcar.

And I walk into the Tulane University emergency room. And this is where my story of recovery begins. I walk in and I can't use my arms. And it's COVID time. So I can't pull up my little. Oh, that was the worst thing they ever did for criminals. Let us wear masks. What a great idea that is, right?

So this guy, this security guard comes in. I have one of the ones that slides over your head, get at Home Depot or whatever. And he pulls it over. He comes up to me. He's like, you've got to put your mask on. I was like, man, I can't use my arms. You know, you're going to have to. So he pulls up my mask and a look at disgust on this guy's face.

It's etched into my memory forever. Like, just look at this piece of shit. You know what I mean? And I finally got the least bit of willingness, man, to ask for help. And I asked this neurologist, he's working with me. At this point, I got the long hair. I got the little man bun I showed you earlier. And got some tattoos.

So the neurologist is a younger cat. And he's got tattoos and he's got a little long hair. and he comes up to me, he's asked me like, I'm in intensive care for two weeks at Tulane. And he asked me, he's like, what's your deal, man? I was like, man, this is what I've been my whole life. You know, from 17 to 45, I've been done nothing. 30 years of my life, man.

30 years. I always make a joke to tell people I retired from 15 to 45. Now I've got to work the rest of my life. but uh uh i uh i uh i asked for help and uh i mentioned that hotel and kenner about a couple months before that right before when i showed one of those pictures i showed you uh i look at those pictures now man and i see the hollowness in my eyes just the emptiness that i had no joy for anything i i mentioned i lived all those places you say which one did you like the best i hated everywhere man. I hated everything and I

hated everywhere. I had so much hate in my heart. So much anger and hate. And I hated everywhere because I was there. That was me. That's what I had to look at in the mirror every day. And it breaks my heart that that's how I

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Cummage is a registered trademark of Cummins and Graham and Hemmy are registered trademarks of FXAUS LLC. The, you know, the time you actually genuinely wanted help. Because I, there was got to a point where I just wanted to die. I didn't want to do it anymore, man. It was exhausting, living like that. Exhausting. I could never stay in a place for too long because I never knew if somebody was a cop was coming after me or somebody's coming after me. I could never stay.

I had to move around like that. at the end because you stay one place too long, they know your face. You know what I mean? So move around. It was exhausting. My life was, there was no joy in my life whatsoever.

It was all getting my next fix. It's my, all my life was. And it was exhausting. And I just, it was either I wanted it to be over or I wanted to get better. And I had no idea how to get better. I had no clue how to live.

a normal life pay bills, be kind to people, do the next right thing. I had no idea, man. It's not as hard as you think, ultimately. So I get into this, that guy at the hotel is saying, hey, man, check this place out. I'm going to go here. He had just gotten out the joint. His life was a mess. He's like, I'm going to go to this Palmetto Addiction Recovery Center.

And he showed me a video of the gym, like I go to the gym. I try, man. I'm working on him. I'm getting there. I got a couple of friends in my life who are trying to get in a really good shape, and they're trying to get me there. I'm just so lazy. At least you're honest.

Yeah, well, honesty is part of it, man. I can be that today. I can be honest today. So they get me into this place. So it's in Rayville, Louisiana, which is about two and a half hours north of New Orleans. I got not, again, I got nothing. I got a broken pair of glasses. a pair of jeans, a beat-up pair of bronze,

and a t-shirt. I don't even have anything, man. I don't have an ID. I don't have anything. I got nothing. And so they get me into this rehab, and I get there, and I'm still kicking and screaming,

wanting to do Steve's way, you know? They get me, I don't get a bill for the two weeks in the hospital. I don't get a bill for the ambulance ride they gave me to, the rehab, which two and a half hour ambulance, it's got to be pricey, I'm assuming, because you take a short ambulance ride, it's expensive from what I understand. And then they get me into this rehab that's like $15,000 a month. I know that because a guy in the rehab, who's a really good friend of mine still today, Austin, man, what a great dude.

He was, I'm not going to put his business out there, but he had to end up paying his last month in rehab, and he had to do the six months. And his insurance cover most of it, but it was like 15 grand a month. So I don't get, I'm in there for 63 days, 62 days. I don't get a bill for that. And I still, I didn't know that at this point, but still I get in there and I'm taking up a bed and there's cabins. And it's like six dudes per cabin, eight dudes per cabin, whatever it was. And it's nice.

They got softball field. They got the bayou out back. You know, you get food. The cabin goes to Walmart once a week. goes, pick out their food, you know what I'm saying? It gets a list from everybody. And then one person cooks each day. And I get there and I just want to do my way.

I want to lay in bed. They give me the easiest chore because everybody does a chore, you know. And they give me sweep the floor. I won't even get up and do it. I got no willingness at this point. I get up, I eat a bowl of cereal. I take my ass back to bed. That's what I do for the first four days.

And then there's this thing called fears, cares, and concerns. I call it a snits session. You know what I mean? If you see somebody not doing something they're supposed to do, if you see somebody doing something they're not supposed to be doing, you're supposed to stand up and say something. So somebody calls me out. And it hit me like a ton of bricks.

I'm not going to group. I'm not going to participate in my recovery. I'm just laying there, taking up space, and it hits me that somebody that really wants to change their life around could have this bed right now. And I'm just taking it up. So this is where the willingness creeps in, man.

I go back out, I look, I tell this story in my lead. I go out to the bayou, and I don't have any concept of a higher power or anything like that. At this point, I'm saying the universe, you know what I mean? Now I have a god of my understanding today.

I don't know if he's a guy up in the clouds or whatever, but I know there's a power greater than me. I know that for sure. There's no way I'd be here. I've been, I've had four strokes, a heart attack. I've been shot and I've been stabbed. Like, there's no way I should be walking around on this planet right now.

And there was a time in Arizona where I got, I was working with these guys. I was out doing stuff and I would pay them to drive me around. And they came to my hotel room like, there were my friends beat the shit out of me, pistol with me, left me in a bathtub, took my glasses and everything I own. left me in the bathtub bleeding and bloody with broken rib or or bruised ribs I believe it was but my eyes all black pistol whip me twice there's no way I should be walking around man I shouldn't be here why did they do that to you oh because I took all my shit because they saw ahead I always I always looked apart man no matter how screwed up I got jays nice shoes I'm a jays guy what could I say man you like what you like yeah you know I'm saying.

49 years old. I'm never going to grow up, I don't think. But, so I get, I get a, I go out by that by you. And I'm like, man, if there's, if this is what I'm supposed to be doing and this is what I need in my life, give me a sign, anything. And an alligator swims by. I'm from Cleveland, right? I don't see, I saw alligator on the animal planet once.

And then the zoo, I think I saw one. But so I'm like, all right. I see you. So I start doing, taking some suggestion, doing things not my way. Because my way, look where my way got me. My whole life, my way got me under a bridge and a tent with a needle in my arm. That's where my way got me. And I just want something better for my life.

And this is where my journey begins, man. Like this is all the other stuff I told you today. It's all fine and dandy. But the fact that I'm. sitting here with you right now, almost brings tears to my eyes because I had so much nothing in my life and now I have so much.

So I start doing I start doing what I'm supposed to do. I take suggestions. I start doing extra chores. I start doing what these people tell me to do. And inevitably my life gets better a little bit. Not great. I'm still in a rehab with nothing. and my time is up at that rehab.

And an interesting point, like a friend of mine, I tell that story about the alligator to her in a lead I did. And she sent me this thing later on that said, alligators in Native American culture are a sign of rejuvenation and rebirths. So it's crazy that I saw that alligator. And that's when it hit me that I needed to start. doing things differently in retrospect. It's, I don't know. It's kind of funny.

But, uh, so they tell me to go to, uh, sober living. And I'm scared. I got nothing. I don't have a phone. I got, they bought me some Kmart underwear. They bought me a couple pairs of shorts, some socks, because I got none of that, man, you know, when I get to rehab. So the rehab is nice enough to give me all that stuff. And then a couple of the guys there throw me some clothes. And so I get out and I do what they tell me to do. Uh, I go. I go to outpatient and then they tell me to get a program, a recovery program. I chose Alcoholics Anonymous.

I get a sponsor. This is where Kevin's story really hit me because it's a beside from what he's gone through a couple times, but I start taking some suggestion. I don't know how to live a good life, you know. my life has gotten me like I said with nothing in rehab so uh I start I get out I start going to meetings I get a sponsor I start working steps and uh things get better I get a phone I get a job uh I start I start doing things to improve my life uh I go to meetings um so much needs to be done to maintain my spiritual I get a connection with my higher power

That comes a little bit later, but I'm starting to use the universe or the rooms, as we say, to get a little bit better with my life. And so Hurricane Ida hits up in August 29th and 2021. And it kind of messes up the sober house I'm in and they put us in a hotel. Hotels are bugaboos for me, man. Not so much now, but back then, I was young in sobriety. So that one girl I told you about that when I went to prison, she was there for a little bit. She's the only person on the planet who will talk to me at this point. Nobody else wants anything to do with me.

Rightfully so. You know, I burned every bridge I've ever had, you know. So I get to this hotel and I say, you know what, I'm going to come back to Cleveland. So I come back September 7th of 2021. back to Cleveland again and I got a wreckage of my past as we call it I still got seven criminal warrants in Ohio I have no license I have nothing you know I'm saying I'm starting from scratch I'm kind of even with the house actually I'm in the hole with the house because I got to pay all these court fines and stuff to get my license back so I come back and uh I I uh I start doing the thing

here I come back and I start uh or not here but there in Cleveland. And I go to a meeting and I get up with some people that I used to run with when I was in, when I was in, like, high school and stuff. Like, I go to this meeting and this one guy takes me to another meeting. He's like, I want you to meet these guys, you know? And they're all, their lives are amazing. They're good people.

They have cars and houses and, you know what I'm saying? I don't have any of that stuff at this point. I got nothing. I'm still still staying in a hotel. lightweight. So I start, I start working it, man. I start doing it. I'm not perfect. I fall short a lot, but I try to be a better person today than I was yesterday. I try to help others today. Try to get a little bit of humility in my life. And, man, it's saved my life, man. It's completely changed. I get back here, I get a job doing construction, and I hate it.

You know what I mean? And I keep saying here when I get home. And I get this job in construction and some friends of mine have this company. And they tell me, you know what, quit, put your two weeks into that job. You're going to come work for us. So I do what they suggest. And I do it. And now I'm the sales manager of that company.

And I train new guys. I have a car in my name. I have a motorcycle. I go to a lot of meetings. I sponsor guys. And sobriety isn't perfect, man. But today I have the tools to deal with life on life's terms. And I never had a tool before.

My tool was always to just use it away or drink it away. That's the only defense I had to anything was bury it down and not think about it. And today, things aren't perfect, man. In sobriety, I've broken seven ribs and collapsed the lung. But I did what those guys told me to do, and I made it through it. Sponsored a guy recently. It turned out badly. I'm not going to throw exactly what happened out there, but he ended up ending his life.

And it did. I lean in. I lean into my people, man. and I try my best to, like I said, be a better person than I was yesterday. What helps keep you on tractor in those dark days? Like the days you want to, you know, fall off the good path you're on, because we all go through those days. Absolutely.

Yeah, because life's lifey, right? Life gets like that, you know what I'm saying? The fact that I've come so far in a short period of time, three and a half years ago, man, I lived under a bridge and a tent. I got to fly out here and meet with you today, man. This is like, this is huge, man. I appreciate this platform to tell my story. I really do.

Hopefully this helps somebody. That's my main goal with this today. But what I do is I lean in, I lean into my guys. I share what's hurting me or I share what's, what's vexing me that day. I don't try to do it on my own because I tried to do everything on my own for so long that it just didn't work. A problem shared is a problem shared is a problem cut in half, right?

So if you can just, and I try to help others, you know what the best thing to get me out of myself is trying to help somebody else. It stops me from thinking about myself for whatever time that is. I'm still so selfish and self-centered. It's out of control, man. But I have a program today to deal with these things.

things and try to be a better person and just, man, life's pretty good, man. I can't complain. What advice would you give to your 18-year-old self? Ha! Don't do what you want to do, man. Like, how about, man, I wish I, I don't like to live in the past, but I don't like to shut the door on it either. But I don't, I, man, I wish I could just go back and grab him.

by his collar and say, dude, you got a whole life to live. And I started living in my life of 45. I might as well been in prison for all 30 of those years, man, because I put myself in a prison of addiction and pain and suffering. And there's always been a solution. And I just was too stubborn and pig-headed to see it. Stephen, thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing your story and making the trip up here. It's been a pleasure to meet you and talk to you, and I wish you the best going forward and have fun in New York City. Yeah, check it out, right? Thanks, man.