Locked In with Ian Bick - The Feds Busted Me With Ghost Dope — Then Sent Me To Prison For 63 Months | Josh Foriska

Episode Date: September 13, 2026

Josh Foriska grew up in a good family with a father who was a cop — and still chose to sell drugs, built his way into a large drug conspiracy, led police on a high speed chase, and eventually got indicted by the federal government in a major conspiracy case before taking a plea deal involving ghost dope that produced a 63 month federal prison sentence. _____________________________________________  #federalprison #truecrimepodcast #prisonstory #highspeedchase _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 A Knock at 4 AM 00:44 Growing Up as a Cop's Kid 01:47 Lessons from Dad 02:36 Early Aspirations and the Black Sheep 03:31 Trouble in School 04:28 The Brother's Path 04:55 Starting a Career and Fatherhood 05:57 Party Days and Early Arrests 06:10 The Longest Police Chase in PA 07:44 Adrenaline Rush and No Plan 08:42 The PIT Maneuver and Arrest 09:39 Charges and Bail 10:42 Defending the Case 12:44 First Jail Experience 13:45 Dad's Reaction 14:40 Federal Indictment 15:48 How the Case Was Built 16:56 Entering the Drug Trade 18:05 How Dealing Started 18:35 Cocaine Prices and Quality 19:31 Meeting Suppliers 20:07 Selling and Cutting Cocaine 22:06 Making Money and Gambling 23:11 Seeing a Million in Cash 23:30 The Office and Customers 24:00 Pooling Money and Partnerships 26:27 Fatherhood and Denial 28:27 Suspicions of Surveillance 29:27 Continuing Despite Risk 30:16 When Co-Defendants Get Indicted 31:15 The Day of Arrest 33:03 A Tragic Raid 35:13 Fallout and Villainization 37:34 No Drugs or Cash Found 38:48 Transported to Federal Detention 39:28 Final Charges and No Bail 39:53 Snitches Detected 42:18 Time in Detention and Getting Bail 44:11 Public Defender and Case Strategy 46:03 Facing a Mandatory Minimum 49:49 Plea Deal and Sentencing 53:32 Getting 63 Months 56:00 From Court to County Jail 57:00 Diesel Therapy and Conair 58:39 USP Atlanta Shock 01:00:00 Terrible Prison Food 01:00:26 Arrival at FCI Manchester 01:02:01 Prison Politics and Race 01:05:01 Refusing to Lock In 01:06:04 Adjusting to Routine 01:08:48 Working and Smuggling 01:12:00 Prison Programs and Mindset 01:14:32 Staying Put and Avoiding Transfer 01:17:01 Release Delays 01:18:08 Being a Dad in Prison 01:19:36 Building a Life After Prison 01:22:27 Long-Term Effects and Moving On 01:24:21 Final Reflections and Advice _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka

Like four in the morning, boom, I hear the, you know, the doors getting kicked in and lasers, you know, the whole nine. I mean, screaming feds, FBI. So I jump out of bed and I'm like, listen, she's pregnant. That's all I care about. She's pregnant. I don't care. Beat me up. I don't care.

But this girl was pregnant with my daughter. Like, please show her to respect. That's Josh Foreska. He grew up with a police officer for a father, but chose a completely different path. What started with selling drugs grew into a federal drug conspiracy, a high-speed police chase, and eventually 63 months in federal prison. Today, he's breaking down how DP got, how the feds built their case,

and what that life ultimately cost him. I grew up in Pittsburgh, the city, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. What was your upbringing like? So, I mean, both parent household, older brother, mom and dad, worked, you know, both jobs. I had a great upbringing, private Catholic school. It's really good.

What they do for work? So my mother was a manager of a bakery and my father was a police officer. Oh, your dad was a cop? Wow. In Pittsburgh? Yeah. Wow. So what was it like having a dad as a cop?

It was good. Strict discipline. But it was all right. I mean, it never bothered me or like changed my opinions or views. So I have a lot of respect for that profession, a lot more than people, you know, that been to prison. There's a lot of negativity, but I don't support that. Were there some good lessons he taught you as a kid? Oh, absolutely.

And the biggest lesson he's taught me was work. I mean, I see my dad work 80 hours, 100 hours a week. I mean, non-stop work. And that's just, it's not, we don't have that anymore. Nobody works like they do. Nobody anymore wants to work, let alone. So, yeah, I mean, his work, he was a family first guy. I mean, it's all he cared about was my mom, me and my brother.

I mean, we came above everything and anything. Would he tell you stories from the job to keep you out of trouble? Yeah, he would, you know, he wanted us to do the right thing, you know. So he would tell us little things of stories that have happened over the, you know, his career that he's seen, you know, hoping that, you know, me and my brother would take the right road. Did you want to become a cop at all? No. No, no, no.

You didn't have those dreams as a kid? No, no. No, I mean, and honestly, I mean, I've seen what it did to him. I mean, he was never home. Like, I mean, it's all we did was work, work, work, you know. I mean, great dad. I mean, he worked, I mean, he worked morning, noon, and night to give me and my brother and my mom the life we had. So.

What did you want? out of life as a career when you were a kid or your dreams. When I was a kid, I've always been fascinated with cars, motorcycles. So I've always took a niche to that. My dad obviously wasn't, not getting to do anything with cars or anything. But that's, that was really my niche when I was young and I grew up to this day. I'm still involved in that industry. And how are you as a kid?

Did you get into trouble? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I was the trouble kid. We call it a, we joke, you know, the black sheep of the family. Like, that's exactly what, uh, yeah, I mean, in and out of schools, um, always fighting suspensions. Nothing major, major as a, you know, juvenile. And no, never been, not really arrested or anything when I was a young kid or anything. But yeah, I was in and out of schools, thrown out of Catholic schools.

So. Why do you think you were like that? I don't want to be cliche, but I mean, you are who you hang with. So, you know, I was hanging with them people. And, you know, I was a, I was a follower at that time. You know, I wasn't a leader. How'd your brother compare to you? My brother is a 20-year veteran of the local county.

jail correction officer. Got to have him on the show. He might come. So he wasn't anything like you as a kid? No, I mean, when he was a kid, he would get in little bit of trouble, fights and stuff, you know, but nothing like me. Did you end up graduating high school? Yeah.

And where do you go after high school? So I went straight into working. I worked as a mechanic on cars. I went to, got my Pennsylvania, we have inspection admissions for cars. I went and went to the tech school, got my licenses to do them, and then just started working. No college or anything like that. And how was life for you? It was good.

I mean, you know, it struggled. I had my oldest son, young, 18. So that was challenging, you know, and I was still a kid myself. I mean, so, I mean, it was working. It was going. My mom and dad, obviously, to this day, I mean, they're everything to me. You know, they help me through everything. What about any issues with drugs or alcohol?

Nah, alcohol, yeah. I mean, we, I mean, we partied, like, I mean, especially later in, you know, early 20s when a whole case started happening. I mean, man, we, we partied, alcohol, coke, the whole nine. So up until this case, that would end up sending you to prison. And you'd never really been arrested or? Oh, no. I had a case prior to this. Oh, you had a case?

Yeah. What was that for? So I have the, um, the longest police chase on history in the state of Pennsylvania on the turnpike. Over what? So we were, me and my, me and my co-defendant, we were driving back. We got pulled over. They said we were speeding. Do the whole registration insurance, driver's license.

And then he said we were acting nervous and he wanted to wait for he. She's like, I'm going to go call for a dog. So then we just left. You just took off? Took all, yeah, 40 miles. Did you have drugs in the car? They say we did. But you didn't.

No. So why in that moment would you decide to take off? And are you the, you're the driver? I'm the driver. Yeah, I was the driver. I mean, we were scared. I mean, you know, there was, and then, you know, we go back and we listen to, and they charge me, honestly, with attempted homicide because they say I was like, you know, swerving around like stuff. So they say I was trying to run over officers and like, yeah, so I was like national CNN and all that for that case.

How long does this car chase go for? 47 miles. 47 miles. And how long is that, though? And our little. And are they following you the whole way? Oh, yeah, helicopter, like 19 patrol cars. They had tractor trailers.

And it was on the Pennsylvania Turnpike. So they had like tractor trailers like closing the lanes down so we couldn't get around them. Like it was crazy. And what was your game plan? What was the end goal? We're 20 years old. There ain't no goal, you know? I mean, the goal was to get rid of, you know?

I don't know. I don't know what we thought. Like now looking back at it. And I'm like, where are we going? Like you're on a turnpike. Like you can hit side roads. We're on the turnpike. We can see the helicopter.

You can see the helicopter in the sky following you. What are you guys saying to each other? We're just like, I don't even know what we were saying. Like the adrenaline. That was probably the most crazy adrenaline rush I ever had in my life. I mean, I mean, like blacked out almost and was just going. Now, are you calling your dad at all for advice? No, no.

No, you've been the last person I wanted to call. You know, I mean, he's got. Did he find out from the news or? No, yeah, I called him from jail, obviously. So you were the first person to tell him. It's not like he found out. Yeah, yeah. Saw his car on the team.

No, no, no, no, no, nothing like that. So I think I was 19 at that time. How did you come to a stop? They pit maneuvered me at 100 miles an hour and rammed my Tahoe into a wall and spun us around. Dude, you're lucky you didn't get hurt. Oh, yeah. Or anyone else got hurt for that matter. Yeah, absolutely.

We're very lucky. So when they bring you to a stop, do they? what do they surround you and throw it out of the heart? Yeah, surround us. Yeah, pull me out. I just opened the door, you know, and just got out lay down in the middle of the highway. I mean, what am I going to do? But my buddy and the co-defendant, his door was smashed in good where he couldn't open it.

So they yank him through the windshield. He bust out the windshield or kicking on the front windshield and they're pulling him out the windshield. I mean, he got touched to his day all over his body from being dragged through the windshield. I just said, well, what is the logic, though, in the moment to do this? What's going through your mind? to not go to jail. But now hindsight 2020, I mean, like, we're going to jail no matter what. So do you guys end up getting jail case for that?

No. So we— Well, no. I mean, I think—so when we did it, it was in a little small county, too. So, like, they gave us a $500,000 straight cash bond each of us. They asked for a million, and the judge was like, no, not a million. And I was like, oh, my God. my heart was like, thank God.

And he was like 500,000 straight cash. And I was like, that's a lot. You might as well left it a million. Like, what's the difference? So we did, I think, a couple weeks. Then we got a bail herring. And we got lawyers and everything involved. And we ended up getting it dropped down to like 50,000 straight cash,

which at a bail bond is about 10%. I think it was five grand or four grand or something. So then we got out. But, I mean, they charged us with, and I think I had 12, counts of attempted homicide on police officers fleeing five counts of fleeing, a looting four counts of possession with intent to distribute, reckless in danger in other people's lives. I mean, I think I had like 40-some charges out of this case.

So they ended up recovering drugs then if they just charged you with it. Yeah. So their thing was, and it says that they thought we had 18 ounces of Coke and we threw it out the window and when it hit the ground it dissipated and they couldn't get none of it back and i was like 18 18 ounces of anything is a lot of something i mean it hits the ground you're finding something so they arrested us um they put my buddy they they were trying they were trying to do anything they could to get him to um so they put these blue rubber gloves on his hand right They needed a warrant to search the hands to see if the NICAD would come back or whatever the strips are to see if drugs would come back.

They left them in these blue gloves handcuffed for like nine hours waiting on a warrant. So when the warrant comes back, they'd swab them and it tests negative. So then they tell the judge, well, that's because he had gloves on for nine hours. I'm like, well, you put the gloves on them. We didn't put the gloves on them. So long story short, the police made some statements that weren't true. And, you know, there's 19 cars or 18 cars. They all had dash cams in them.

You know, at one point, one of the police officers said he jumped out in the middle of the turnpike with his gun drawn, standing in the middle of the street, looking right at me. And I just continued to go. And he had to jump out of the way. So that's where their homicide was coming from. And then my lawyer, shout out, best lawyer in Pittsburgh, man. He knows who he is. he uh we paid a video photographer and the dude just went through every dash the dude never stepped foot

out of his car not one time so luckily you know i beat that case oh the whole case yeah so i got found i took a plea deal to a a summary drug simple drug possession because i think there was a like a marijuana roach that they found like i took a summary offense to that wow yeah how was your first time in jail those couple weeks? Um, so he's a small county, big case hit all the local news. So me and my co-defendant, we walk in and it's straight to the hole, you know, but their jail was weird. So like their hole was like, they put me and him in the same cell in the hole. But their hole, the shoe, whatever they call it, was right off, like right outside of the main block. So the shoe was only four cells. So like,

The guys were screaming through the door to us like, oh, man, we've seen it's on TV. Yints are legends. And I'm like, oh, my God, no. Like, it was all right. I mean, I wasn't terrified. You know, we were secluded at that time. You know, I mean, we're 19, 20-year-old kids. I mean, you know, we're having fun.

We're partying. Like, but, you know, that's a wake-up call real quick to be charged with attempted homicide. How was your dad reacting to the? this once he found out and you guys talked um mad hurt feel like you know even to this day you know i let him down you know i made choices that i know i shouldn't have made um but i couldn't change them you know um and he was just mad and upset i think he was hurt more than anything that like i give you anything you want like him what do you do what you know i mean if Through all this, I mean, I had a full-time job, always.

I mean, I've always worked, always had a full-time job. But this was just, oh, man, it was a wild, it was a wild, it was a wild adventure. How much time passes between the arrest and it getting tossed away? Two years. And you're just working throughout that time? In the meantime, I get indicted, though. Oh, you catch the other case during, okay, so what happens with that? So, so I'm out on bail.

on the attempted homicide and all that. So I'm fighting that case. So it's an hour and 20 minutes from my house. So I'm traveling back and forth to that case. I mean, but it's a state case. So that happened May of 07. No, May of 08, I apologize. November of 2008.

So I'm just home four months back to work. I get indicted by the feds. on a 39-person drug conspiracy indictment, 10 keys or more per person. Conspiracy. No drugs found. I mean, if you know, you know what the Fed's conspiracy is. I mean, they don't have to find drugs. They just...

You know, the ghost dope? Ghost-o, as we call it, ghost-dope. I mean, they hear you talk about something they think is drugs. And if you don't like it, you go to trial and get your head knocked. I get 25, 30 years if you lose. So how do you get picked up in this? So me and my co-defendant that were in the police chase, him. I mean, it was just a bunch of us.

I mean, it was all the bunch of kids that same kids I grew up with, went to high school. Then there was just like a bunch of add-ons, like their friends from these, you know, so it was, I mean, they call it. I mean, there's news articles. They say, I mean, it was one of the biggest in Western Pennsylvania for how big we went. I mean, we went from the north to the south, I mean, all the way to almost Erie, all the way down to, like, West Virginia, over to the West and East. So, yeah. Did you know any of these individuals on the case other than your pro-defense, your main one? So out of the 39, I probably knew really well, seven, eight people, 10 or 15 others.

I knew, hey, how you doing? See you at a bar or something. but no knowledge, no knowledge with them people at all. So this makes more sense of why you guys ran now in the car. But I mean, yeah, to be honest, yeah. So when does this all start? When do you start getting into dealing drugs? I would say 19, like literally probably not too, not much before the police chase.

you know, maybe a couple, six, eight months before, you know, and it was a, they say the drought of 07 or 08, you know, so, you know, in that business, you do what you'd have to do, you know, so we went out and found something and, you know, but the thing is, is they, the whole police chase, like, they didn't know what we had. I mean, I feel to this day that it was set up, we were set up. because when you go back and you listen to the tapes, and it makes me sick to my stomach, there was no canine available in the county. The guy was having to let us go. He was going to have to let us go. We don't know that. We left.

How did you first get involved in dealing drugs? How does that life even stumble upon you? So it was just more of like party and going to the bars, you know, doing a little bit of Coke and whatever, You know, and then it's like, well, so I spent it a hundred a night. I could do buy something for 300 and then get this person a hundred and this person a hundred. And then like, I'm getting mine for free, you know. So basically that's how it's all.

I mean, that's how it started, you know, getting what I wanted for me to party with the girl, you know, all that for free. And it's only Coke? Only Coke, yeah. Only Coke. Nothing else. And what are the going rates of Coke? Back then. Yeah.

Man. I think back then. I mean, $600, $700, $700 for an ounce. Is that considered cheap? Back then, I mean, it was about what it was going for. I mean, nowadays I have no idea. But, you know, it depends back then, too, you know, you're buying. You know, if you're buying a four, you know, if you're buying half a half of a burn or a hole burn, you know, whatever,

you're going to get, you know, better deals and this and that. But, I mean, the guys that we dealt with, I mean, they had some heavy people coming in from Mexico and everything delivering it. So when we all got indicted by the feds, they said that they missed it by one day. Like they shot the gun. If the feds would have came one day later to who they said were the kingpins,

they would have probably had 50, 60 keys, like, of pure drugs. They bit the bull and jumped one day too early. And how do you meet those people? Friends of a friend, like on this case. Like, people I grew up with, went to high school with, They met somebody at a bar who met this part. You know, it was just like, it was crazy. Like how everybody, it's a big city.

We all intertwined, though. We weren't close, though, you know, but there was a few different clicks, you know. Like I said, probably 10 of them dudes that I knew we did everything together. And then the other 30 people, man. Like, there was multiple people there. I didn't even know. I've never seen them a day in my life. And I'm indicted on their case.

Now, would you resell the drugs on your own, Yeah, absolutely. So it was more than just partying. Yeah. Oh, it started. No, I should refer it. It started out just to party, you know, and then it moved into, hey, man, I might as well make money. I mean, we're doing it. We might as well make money. So. And what was your method? I mean, so we would just, I mean, it depends on the quality. You know, if it was good quality, you know, you could get one ounce for 600, step on it and make two ounces for six. You can make that one into two. So now you're paying 600. Now you got two of them.

So now if you sell them for 900 a piece, you made 1,800 bucks off of 600. So you're making 1,200 bucks, and like, quick. And what a step on it, I mean? So you take, you know, whatever you want to cut it with, whether it's, you know, people use baking, bacon soda or nossitol or what else? We used to use nossetol. I mean, that's what we, we actually had a supply guy. at the GNC. Like when he, the Nossitol would come in.

Like he would just, there would be never none on the shelf by our house. I mean, he would just pull the whole thing and call us up. We'd go right up there, right to the back door, give him the cash, boom, cases. I mean, vans full. Now, are there any health ramifications by cutting something up like that? So, I mean, depending on what you use. I mean, back then, I mean, Nossitol is a workout drug. I mean, it's a workout supplement, you know, so no.

But you don't know what gets it before you get it. I mean, you know, they cut it with ether. I mean, there's gasoline in there. I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy if you ever watch a documentary of how cocaine's made from a plant to the powder. It's lighter fluid, ether. It's crazy. And now you have people cutting it with fentanyl and stuff.

Yeah, now it's like, oh, that's terrible. Now, what are you doing with the money that you're making from selling it? I mean, blowing it, gambling. So you're not like an elaborate drug dealer? No, no. I mean, I'm living comfortably, you know, but I mean, gambling. I mean, we would, I mean, but I still worked.

Now, didn't miss a day of work. I mean, still worked full time, but we would go, you know, the bar. So I would usually work at like eight in the morning, eight till four or something. So we would go to the bar, you know, eight o'clock at night, close the bar down at two. Then we would drive to the casino until like six. And then I hurry up, leave the casino, go to work and come home, sleep for like an hour and do it again, like, nonstop.

Bars, casino, work. Would you win at the casino? No. I mean, very rarely. Very rarely. But you didn't, I mean, you're not so you didn't care, but it's free money. I mean, it's not free money, but in your eyes when you're that young and like, you know, you have a duffel bag of $400,000 in front of you or $80,000 or $200,000. It's free money in your eyes.

What do you think was the most you had at one time? The most I've seen. Or had yourself? I mean, I've seen a million in cash. That was just from people buying product from you? No, just from everybody. I mean, one point I had over 200 cash. Wow.

Now, where would you meet your customers? Is that just strictly at bars or did you have a system? Yeah, bars usually. I mean, we all hang out. We all hung out like a strip club in downtown Pittsburgh. We called it the office. And like, it's, it's sickening. I mean, you hear the phone calls from the feds and they're like, go, hey, meet me at the office.

Meet me at the office. Meet me at the office. And they're like, where's the office? You know, they wanted to know where this office was. And I'm like, it's a strip club. Like, do we just call it at the office? Because that's where we went to work. You know, that's just what we called it.

Now, do you guys pull all your money together? No. So how does it work? Like, do you have to, are you just buying product from the bigger guys? Yes. I mean, like, like it would be. depends on like pricing and like hey so yeah if we could get you know 18 ounces for this and i only needed four and my buddy needed four and then yeah we would all put our money together so we get a better

deal and then we would just take our own and do our thing with it and then the guy that you ended up getting busted with in the car he was your kind of like your right hand yeah yeah yeah yeah me and him we got busted the police chase this i mean we still friends to this day i mean like now did your family know what you were doing? No. No. I mean, I want to say that they might have had like an idea that I was doing something, like, especially after the police chase, right? And so after the police chase happened, you know, and I'm like, listen, I can't talk, right? I can't tell you the truth because, like, that that's what DA's and that they pry on, right? They'll find out that I told you the truth and they're going to call you as a witness and you're my mother or my fault, anybody, and you're going to have to go

testify against me. So I, and, you know, you're still hiding. You're like, no, they're, you know, you're in denial, right? So, um, so I would, I think they knew something. I was doing something. Um, but I don't think they knew to like the extent, you know, obviously. Now, you're still dealing when you had your kid. Yeah. And what was your plan, uh, as a new father? Just, I just wanted to give them everything I could. you know it was definitely I mean it wasn't the right thing to do obviously but um having a kid at 18 that's it's scary you know I mean it was scary times like I didn't know what to do you know but I didn't have a choice you know I had to grow up quick I had to become a father like I'm still

a kid myself you know and so yeah I tried to do the what I thought in my mind was the right thing never brought drugs around the kid he never slept in the house where there was drugs, none of that, you know, because in my mind, like, oh, as long as I do that, it's two separate things, you know, that, that whole now thing, you know, like, oh, it's okay if he's not around it. No, it's not. I mean, but. Did you want more out of life at that point in time? Did you, did you want to become something more? Absolutely. Just like a drug dealer? Absolutely. Absolutely. I knew what I was doing wasn't right. But stop that. The money goes away. and you know, you're back to making it, you know,

but not having the life you're, you know, been accustomed for the last two years, three years to living. Did you have an end game in mind or an I-Ziplan? No. Yeah. It was just going to be bank, bank, bank, bank, and then, I mean, figure it out. I mean, we weren't fine. Me and my son and my daughter's mother.

I mean, we were going to Disney World. I mean, we were just living life. Now, did you come up with an addiction yourself at all during this time? Not really. I mean, I did Coke and we partied, but it never, it never, like, ruined, rolled my life. Like, I didn't have it. I didn't have it. So, no, I never let that, like, you know, take me on to an addiction.

Now, we did all, we also got indicted for writing fake prescriptions on that same indictment. On the federal indictment? So, like, we were writing, you know, we had a computer and, like, prescription paper. we would write 240, you know, perk 30s or Vicodintens. And back then, like, Vicodint and OCE80s were like the big thing. And we'd write and we just hand, we'd hand it to some dude. Hey, I'll give you 200 bucks. Go cash this in it.

You walk right to the pharmacy. You can't you 240 OC80s like that. I mean, so, man, we busted through so many of them. We all got charged with that as well on the indictment with the prescription fraud and all that. But no, I never had an addiction issue with drugs. Yeah, I partied. I can do whatever. But like I never got to that point where like it let it run my life.

Now, did you have any idea that the feds were investigating? So we knew. I shouldn't say new. We had an idea. So we all, we had a little body shop that on the side. We worked on cars and stuff. And it like sat down in like this galley, right in the city. And then like up on this hill, we used to see people up there.

And like, we had this little, we had this little crackhead that we always kept around with them. And like, we give him a little bit of drugs. And he would do our like dirty work, you know, like, so he would catch him on binoculars. And we would be looking at them, looking back at us of binoculars. So like, we knew something was. But we didn't know what, you know. I was thinking, you know, at that time, like, oh, it's probably something with this case. They're going to try to build against me.

I go, defendant with the police chase, didn't have an idea. It was the feds until probably two months or two and a half months before I got indicted when the three original people on my case got indicted. So you decided to keep dealing drugs after the chase while you were awaiting? Absolutely. Why? In my mind, I knew they didn't find no drugs, right? I knew I was beating the case because I knew what they said wasn't true. It was a lie.

So like in my mind, I was like, me, just got over on them. I'm not stopping now. Hindsight, should have. But I think I wouldn't even have thought it would have mattered. I think we were so far in at that point that the indictment was coming no matter what. But that state case, you know, prevented me from getting bond and all kind of stuff for a lot. you know, for a couple months until that was ended. So now what do you do when you hear that those other people got indicted first?

So we hear they got indicted and we were worried. You know, everybody was like, man, a clean house. Everybody went home, got rid of every, you know. I mean, we laid low for them two months. Like, I really didn't do nothing. I went to work. Like it was going to do something. It was too late.

You know, I mean, it was way too late. It was probably two and a half of years too late. So we would, you know, we'd still hang out, go to the bar, shoot pool, like hang out with people. But everybody kind of just, like, slowed their role. Were you worried that those people were going to flip on you at all? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Did they have dirt on you?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of people on the case. I mean, when you have 40 people on a conspiracy, you know, there was a lot of people that, you know, cooperated. And so tell us about the day you got arrested. All right.

So it was November 17th. I literally just went to bed. Like I said, we were still partying. So I was doing a couple lines. So my daughter's mother was pregnant. My son was with his mother at the time. So we had a little calling to our townhouse. I just went to bed at probably like 2.30 in the morning.

There was like two lines of Coke left on the table, like little lines. And like four in the morning, boom, I hear the, you know, the doors getting kicked in and lasers, you know, the whole nine. I mean, screaming feds, FBI. So I jump out of bed and I'm like, listen, she's pregnant. That's all I care about. She's pregnant. I don't care. Beat me up.

I don't care. But this girl is pregnant with my daughter. Like, please show her respect. So they handcuff us all. You know, if they give me shorts, let me get dressed. And then I take me downstairs. And they're like, they're literally tearing my house apart. Like, where's the drugs?

Where's the guns? And I'm like, there's nothing here. Oh, there's something here. Look, they're pointing these two little lines on the table, right? And I'm like, get a baggie because that's like, that's what's here. Like, that's, there's nothing here where, I mean, they would take my pictures off the wall like that. I mean, with family pictures and just cut the back of them right open, just ripping everything apart. You know, looking for guns, drugs, money.

Cut the back of my couches, pulled up carpet and this rent. I mean, I feel bad for that, the person I rented that house. They destroyed this house. Destroyed it. So, and then they have me and her in handcuffs in my living room for probably two and a half hours. You know, they're, they hit everybody at once. And I look over and I see, you know, when the feds come, they always send state local. There's always somebody where everybody, it's not just FBI or CI.

You know, I mean, there's a bunch of different people. And I look over, don't you know that the state trooper, the one from the police chase was there? And I'm like, what's up? He was like, what? And I'm like, you don't remember me, huh? He's like, I have no idea who you are. And I was like, yeah, sure you don't. You know who I am.

Never forget that. And then I hear over the radio a bunch of stuff. And the guy comes to me. He said, you know, your buddy that you were in the police chase with? Yeah. He's like, he just shot and killed a fed. And I was like, what? I was like, oh, my God.

Like, what? So it wasn't him anyway. So it was mine and his friend, wife that morning, thought somebody was breaking in her house. She's on the phone with 911 saying I have an intruder at my house. And I don't know why 911 operator didn't tell them that like it's the police there. She fought she fired one shot, shot and killed an FBI officer. Holy cow. What kind of gun did she have?

It was a, I think it was like a 357. snub barrel revolver one shot down the steps and uh she was upstairs she was upstairs

one shot on the phone with 911 like they they change the rules about no knock warrants and things like that in the Pittsburgh region because of this

so that wasn't a knock no knock warrant so it you know they're supposed to but they don't they just kick your door okay

so she heard the door she had two little kids in the house she fired one shot and killed an FBI officer man. So what happened to her? So they indicted her because the gun that was used was illegal. Was illegal. So then they find a bunch of drugs at this guy's house.

So what did they do? They wrapped her right into the conspiracy. Into your conspiracy? To my conspiracy. They wrapped her into the conspiracy and then added a homicide with an illegal weapon and a felon in possession of a law. weapon to her and him to her and him but that didn't affect you no but it did but it didn't you know because just the optics of it the optics of it is like at the end of the day like they weren't given

no deals nothing to any of us they're like no one of your friends did this right it's it's your case you know it's not you but one of your people that you knew like I mean that you have pictures of you with and phone calls of you with this guy his wife did this that's so sad it's and How the operator not, like, don't they normally have local police there when they do a federal radio? Yes. Yeah, and that's why I don't understand this. And it was a little township, like right outside the city. I have no idea.

And it, like I told you, man, my dad's a police officer. Like, I know the horror stories. Like, terrible. I felt so terrible for this young man. I think at that time he was like 24, 25 years old, just young man had a little baby. didn't sit right to me. And I know the lady that did it. I knew the lady, obviously, at the time, you know.

And I want to believe that she didn't know it was the police, you know. But you think it was intentional? I don't know. I just think in my head, right? You think in your head when you were laying wherever you were when they came to get you, right? You know it was the police, right? Yeah, I'm thinking maybe she thought that it was like a robbery. Correct.

Because she knows, she obviously knew that her man was involved in illegal activity. Absolutely. Yeah. And if you have an illegal gun, you have the drugs, I'm thinking it's a robbery, not the cops. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's hard. You know, it's a hard call.

I mean, I would hope that she thought it was a robbery, you know, deep inside. I mean, that's something she has to live with the rest of her life, you know. But between that and the police chase, like, I mean. They just villainized me and my co-defendants, like me and my co-defendants, really. Like we were just like the worst of the worst on the case. Like news articles about all this gun violence, we're this violent organization. And I'm like never been in no violence, no gun charges, none of that. Like, man, they hammered us because of that.

Do they find any drugs or cash on your house that day when they arrested you? My house, the two little lines of Coke. And I think they found like a couple thousand dollars not nothing major to tie you physically. Nothing major to tie me physically. And where do they bring you? Is there like a federal detention center in there? No. So that's what I mean.

So we were sitting there for two hours at our house because, you know, they waited to get everybody. And then they just sent the, like a police paddy wagon, the local city police paddy wagon to everybody's house and just picked everybody up. So you guys are all together. We're all back in the back of this paddy wagon, right? And we're all just looking at each other. were like, see, we're cooked. You know, we're cooked. Except for the lady that shot.

Except for the lady. And then my co-defendant that I was in the police chase with, he wasn't home at the time. He was like out of, he was out of town when they indicted him. So he was out for a few weeks. He was like away on vacation. And then when he came back, he turned himself in. But yeah. So they have us all in these paddy wagons.

And then they take us to the federal building in the basement of the federal building, sit there all day, go up. And then they all send us right in Youngstown, Ohio. So it's about an hour east of Pittsburgh. Sorry, west of Pittsburgh. Here's this detention center in Youngstown, Ohio, called NEOCC, Northeastern Correctional Facility. And it held all feds. So they take all 40 of us, right?

Like, man, not all 40 of us. Because a couple people had to go to the county. If they had medical issues, they left them in the county jail. So they would say they probably took 30 of us and took us to this one jail, right? They, like, put us all in, like, two pods. Like, we were, all of us were just, like, hanging out on the pods all day. It felt like we were still home. I mean, we're in jail.

But, like, you know, it was crazy. It was crazy. So they took us all to one jail and fought the case. What were the final charges? So the two, I had a two count. One was possession with, or conspiracy to 10 keys or more. And then prescription fraud or something was the other one. And they don't give you bail?

Not originally. Not up front. No, because I had a... The pending case. I was pending an homicide. Now, are you guys all talking amongst each other to see who's snitch so far, who's taking deals when you have a case that big? Oh, yeah. So, I mean, we're talking.

And then you just, you can tell people's demeanor, right? I mean, like, yeah, every day we're all sitting in the same child hall. We're all sitting at the same table. We're all sitting at the same poker table, you know, even it, we're all outside on wreck. We're all together. And then, like, one day, say, oh, man, I don't feel like going there. I'm going to go to the law library. And then, like, all week, he's in the law library.

And he ain't with us. And he didn't sit with us a child. He's like, oh, I'm not eating chow today. And three, four days he's not eating chow. And then he's getting a lot of visitors. And one day, one of them just up and gone, you know, another day. And other guy is just up and gone. And, like, you know, the time it is.

Did you think about taking a deal? Like right away when you first got indicted? Like, let me cop out and snitch and, you know? Nah. Yeah. I just, that wasn't my thing. I just figured a, I know what they, I didn't know nothing about the feds at the time either.

So, like, not looking back, like, in my mind, I was like, I'd just beat this state case, right? They didn't find no drugs in the state case. The feds didn't find no drugs. So, like, at that time, I'm like, I'm in a sense. You know, and then, you know, once you get there and the inmates that are in there, they school you like, man, no, it don't matter. You don't have to, they don't have to find drugs on you. They think you talked about it with this person and that person that all he has to do is plead guilty and you talk to him about anything that you're guilty.

Were you guys all using cell phones? Yeah. Yeah. I think they had like 18 tapped phones or something at the time, 16 tapped phones. So they had you on recording? Yeah. Okay. But not directly drugs, you know, drug, drug slats.

or drug talk, they want to say. Did you use a burner at all or no? Yes. So the three people that got indicted first, they were like the three main. And one of them linked everybody's phone number, linked all the burners to everybody. And how do they prove that that burner is for you, just off of his testimony? His testimony and then voices. So they don't have to physically catch you with it in your possession?

No, they didn't catch no. They didn't catch no burner phones, nothing. I didn't call them no burner phones, no drug, no money, nothing. Wow. All hearsay. All hearsay. Take it to trial. That's crazy.

So how long are you in the detention center before you get bail? So I'm in there five or seven months, somewhere in there. So I go to trial with my state case. We find that the cop lied, my lawyers to the judge, you know, sidebar. Like, listen, we have proof. They dropped that case. So I'm like, I go back to the detention center, me and my co-defendant. And I'm like, hey, I can got nothing to hold me here now.

I never went for a bail hearing, you know. I just kept, I never got a bail. I never went for a hearing. I was just detained because I knew I had that open case. They're not going to let me out. Didn't 24 hours of that state case being dropped. I filed for a bond. And my federal lawyer was like, they're never giving you bond.

Like, I'm like, I don't have a, I have no detainers no more. why not? So I think it was like two weeks later they brought me down. And I mean, my lawyer told my parents like, he's not getting out to the point where like, they didn't bring me close, right? The judge lets me out on house arrest. I had to walk home in my orange boboes. I had to go home in orange boboes and take them back. Looking back on it, do you wish you just stayed in? Yes. No, yes and no, because my daughter was due to be born. So I wouldn't have been there for that. So, yeah, I wish I would have just stayed in and got it over with, you know, but I wanted to be home to. Did you have a public defender or a paid attorney?

On the federal case, I had a defender, whatever, the federal attorney. Oh, public defender? Yeah, public defender for the federal paid attorney for the state. Okay. So the paid attorney at the state, I asked him, I said, hey, will you do my Fed case? And he's like, I don't do federal law. And he was like, here, this is the dude. He's one of the best in Pittsburgh.

I'll give you his number. And here that's the dude they gave me. They gave me the dude that my lawyer recommended. So, like, I just ran with him. How was the public defender? He was good. I mean, he did everything. He filed motions.

You know, they try to feel you out. Like, do you want to cooperate? You know, they all, I think every, that's their job. You know, they're getting paid by the government. They want to try to get you to talk. But, I mean, for the most part, he did what I wanted, what I asked. I had nothing bad to say about him either. I mean, he did what he could at the situation.

You know, I was begging on. I said, dude, just have him drop one gram. One gram of drugs. Drop it one gram, I'll plea today because it takes the mandatory off the board. But they were like, no, somebody on your case shop and killed it. How was your time in the detention center while you were waiting to get bail? What was that like? So it was like, I'm with all my friends, right?

with everybody I got indicted with. I mean, you put 20 or 30 people from the same neighborhood on a pod. Like, we ran the pod. You know what I mean? Like, it was all right. I mean, it was jail. But you don't, once you're there while the weeks start going by, you get into a routine. And it wasn't bad.

The detention center was, it was easy. It was a cakewalk. How to compare to the county time you had done before? Man. I would do a year in the feds before I would do, man, I would do five years in the feds before 60 days in the county. So now when you get out on bail, what's your lawyer saying about the case? He's like, oh, you know, it's, and I'm young still. And I don't know everything.

You know, I'm still like, man, they didn't find the drugs. And he's like, they don't have to. He's like trying to reiterate that. Like they don't need to find the drugs in these indict. in these conspiracy cases. They don't. So he said, if I can get them to drop one gram to it, and then it would be a,

it wouldn't be a 10-year mandatory, be a five-year mandatory. Would you be willing to take the deal? And I'm like, no, no. Like, no, they didn't find no drugs, you know. And then, so once I was out, I was on house arrest. I put an ankle bracelet on me.

And I got to his office and he showed me case law. And I started to, like, actually research and everything. and there came a point in time where I realized, like, I'm cooked. Like, I'm going. Like, so what's my best path? You know, if they drop one gram, I mean, literally one gram under 10 keys is a five-year. Ten keys is 10-year. I can get that.

I can get the five-year mandatory, you know, 85%. You know, I'll be home four years, a little over four years. And that's ended up progressively what ended up happening down. the road is we ended up getting the prescription fraud thing, whatever that was dismissed. They dropped that and then I pled guilty to possession of five keys or more. You think you could have won a trial or now? If you would have asked me when I was facing it, I would have said yes. But now, no, there was a, there were in a prayer.

No, a prayer win. What happens to everyone else on the case? I think everybody takes a plea. I think the only one that goes to trow is the lady that shot. She went to trial for that. Her husband pleaded. They are in career. They careered him.

I mean, he got more time and she did. For ghost out. She shot and killed a FBI officer. How much time did he get? He got 25. And then he got, then he got re-indicted while he was in there for like canine and like papers and all kind of shit. But he was higher up in the indictment?

No, but he had priors. He had two prior drug felonies in the state. So they careered them. They career criminal them and gave him 25. How much time did she get? 15. She got 15 years? 15.

And was that like a manslaughter charge? Yeah, manslaughter. So, yeah, they dropped the drugs. Is there a federal manslaughter? Yeah, I forget. It's something. I think it was manslaughter. she got 10 for the manslaughter and five for the gun they dropped the drugs so she's probably

out by now she's um she just actually got out in the new i mean because obviously it's a big story i mean she i think she come home in like 23 22 somewhere in that nature now under your plea deal what was the the terms what were you looking at for time so i had a mandatory minimum five years um 63 months is what what the the site the sentencing guidelines entered out to. So that's what I ended up getting 63. So there wasn't a range. That was just one thing you were signing for? Well, I wanted the 60 months, right? Oh, so it was 60 to 63? No, 60 was the, they had to give me 60. And it was 60 to 72, I think it was. Okay. And they ended up with 60. So not that big of a gap. No. No. And my lawyer's like, if you lose

trial, right, first off, they're not going to take the one gram off. So you're going to trial at 10 keys or more. So you're going to trust. You lose trial. You're getting 15 to 18. Or take this plea for five. Now, do they even have any pictures of that amount of drugs? Oh, so they have, well, like how do they come up with that amount? Phone wiretaps. Just based on your guys' conversations. And then, like, I guess the other dudes that got indicted first, like, they were doing, like, crack and stuff. And, like, they, when they indicted them guys, they found, like, pots in the kitchen with, like, crack and stuff and all. in it, you know, so like, and they find guns over at their house. But, like, not with me.

And, like, anybody that I knew personally close on that case, no, but not one person got caught with any drugs. No real large sum of money. A couple thousand, I mean, but, I mean. I guess the question is, though, have you touched that amount of drugs over the course of your drug dealing career? Oh, yeah. So it's fair.

I mean, it's a screwed up system, but it's fair. I mean, but now I can sit here. honestly and say that. You know, back then I was like, you got to catch me red-handed. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I know when sometimes it's not fair, but I guess sometimes it does work. At the end of the day, it saved my life, I believe. Now, was there an offer to snitch at all?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. What would that deal look like? So they said, well, if you just answer some questions and we can't guarantee you anything, though, you know, but we'll put in like a good word for the job. basically they're saying you know and and i know there is people on the case that have done that and you know then when he came to their sentence like they get 58 months or something like they didn't get now there were some of the high level dudes i mean the dudes were one of them three

at the top i mean he might did 15 months maybe and he got caught with a lot you only did 15 months Oh, wow. Another guy. Same thing, 18 months maybe. What did they want you to tell on? What kind of information were they? I didn't even get to that point. I don't know nothing.

Like, you guys told me we have everything already. So my answer to my lawyer was tell them what they have everything. What they need me for? Now, in a conspiracy like that, how does it work when one person pleads guilty? Does it automatically make everyone guilty? Or did you talk to your lawyer about that? Yeah, because that's what I said. I said, so say this guy, you know, is saying that, yeah, this phone call between Josh and me when he asked for like big Ben's we used to ask for, like, hey, give me a big Ben. That was seven, you know, so, but they knew that. I mean, he, so if he says yes, right, that's what we were talking about. He said, so if you go to trial, they're going to put that guy on the stand, they're going to play that recording, and they're going to ask him, hey, is this what he's talking about? You can say no, but like, you've got a witness now, willing to take the stand, saying,

saying it is. You know, just like, I just felt like when I heard all of that, like, just deflated. Like, man, there's, there's no, there's no way out of this. Like, there's no way out of, you know, what we were, we were way too deep to be like, you know, like, at the beginning, I thought we were going to walk. Like, yeah, we'll do a couple months here. Like, we'll be, we're getting out of this. They didn't find nothing. Were your parents supportive during this time?

Absolutely. Absolutely. What about your brother? Absolutely. Yeah, they were all supportive. My daughter's mother, she was supportive through the whole thing. My son's mom was too. She was, you know, my son was probably for, you know, getting a little bit older at that time.

So she was cautious for him, obviously. She's like, I'm not bringing him to a federal prison to come visit you. Like, it ain't happening, you know, and held some resentment on for that. But like now I look back like, yeah, I mean, you should. I didn't have a kid nowhere near me, like after what I did, you know. So now you go to sentencing, you got 63 months. How did you feel? I kind of knew.

Like, lawyer was like, hey, you're probably going to get everybody on your case that took this plea, got 63 months, pretty much, you know. So you're probably going to get 63s. Like, I would highly doubt you're going to get anything over. You're not getting the 60. They're going to give you something extra just for a simple fact of what happened in your past. I was relieved in a way that it was over, just starting, but it was over, you know. The countless going to courts and the ankle bracelets and all that, it was over, you know. I had a deal to self-surrender, like my lawyer set up self-surrendering.

So it was no big deal. I get to court that day, and the DA said, no, we're taking that back. Cut the ankle bracelet off me. It took me that day. On sentencing day? On sentencing day. Took me right down there. You had no time to prepare?

No time, nothing. Why the judge side with them? I still think in the back of my mind that, like, that DA and they were just in there, like, remember what his case, that lady, that, you know, I believe that that had everything to do with it. And my background with the police chase and everything, I believe that's still to this day. Like, I mean, because, I mean, I was just on my lawyer was like the week before. And he was like, yeah, we're going to plea. You know, you're going to get sentenced. He'll probably give you two, two to three weeks, you know, sometimes up towards the thing.

30 days will get you to prison close to home and you'll self-surrender. I'm like, all, cool. So I didn't really make too many plans, right? I'm like, oh, man, I got two or three weeks. I'll get sentenced. It's even longer than that. It's like 90 days most of the time. Yeah, and that's what I learned like later on.

60 to 90 days. And you can usually file an extension. Yeah, I would never want to sentencing that day. I would have postponed it. You know what I would have postponed it? I'd have been like, I'm sick, anything. But. What would you have been able to do those extra weeks?

if you were able to self-surrender? I think I, nothing. I mean, hang out with my kids. I mean, I might have been able to, like, plan, you know, different things, but nothing, really. Just buying more time that I got to do. Like, I owe the time. It's not like, but, I mean, you know, when you're out, the worst thing in the world is having to go back. How old are you when you got sentenced?

20. I got sentenced at 09, so I was probably 25. And they bring you back the detention center when you get your bond revoked. So when they sentenced me, they take me, no, then they take me to a county jail because I was out on bond. So they take me to a county jail. I tried to get them to take me up there and they were like, you missed the bus. So now they're going to send me to the county jail that my brother works at. And I'm like, oh.

They let that happen? No. No. So the marshals are like, we're probably going to have to take you to the county, the Allegheny County tonight. And I'm like, say no, like, I have family that works there. They're like, let me see. So they end up taking me to another county, like two counties over from me. And then they put me there with the dude that told on everybody.

Did you do anything or no? He wasn't on my pod, but he was there, you know, and I was like, oh. So I was there for a few months, not even a few months, man. I was there for maybe four weeks at the county. And then I started to. my transport. Where'd they end up designated you to? Where'd you stay?

So, well, I got diesel therapy, Conair, Oklahoma City, and then USP Atlanta. And then I finished out at FCI, Manchester, and Kentucky. They put you to a USP first? Well, no, that was the transit, the transfer transit. And then I went straight to the medium, and I did my whole bid there. What do you think of diesel therapy, going on ConAere, going to Oakland? Oklahoma, all of that. It was terrible.

I mean, the wing of the plane had duct tape holding it on. I swear. There was duct tape. And I was like, what is this? Like, what, what? And like, you know, you think of the movie Conner, and you're like, oh, it's a movie, but it's real life. So they flew me. They did me so dirty, man.

They flew me there. I was in Oklahoma for like three days. Flew me to Atlanta for one night. And they flew me right back to Oklahoma the next day. They definitely did not on. purpose because of your case. I know they did. They got to have a checkbox.

We got to verify this someone one day. But they 100% have a checkbox that says diesel therapy. Man, a couple of my code offense is. They really diesel therapy them. I mean, they were like flying. One dude, man, he probably did like seven trips from Atlanta to Oklahoma to Atlanta to Oklahoma. Then he was like something about it.

He took a bus from Atlanta to like FCI. Halahassee and then they left them in the hole for one night and then brought them right back to Atlanta and then flew them back. That's crazy. They get what they want. So were you in the hole in at the USP? Yeah. Passing through. Yeah, passing through.

When you're going through that experience, do you think this is what prison's going to be like? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, and I'm like, wow. Like, first off, I mean, did you go through Atlanta or anything? I went through Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Oklahoma, Chicago, all that.

Oh, MDC. Yeah, NBC Chicago. Yeah. I was there for a couple weeks, but at least I was in the dorm unit. where it was open door. Okay. Yeah. So you pull up to USP Atlanta.

I mean, it's built in like 1920 or so. I mean, I'm like, oh, my God. So I was there for probably the last time I was there before I went to Manchester. I was there for three weeks, I think. And it's 23 and 1, more like 24 and 0. they let you out for your one hour at like three in the morning. You're going to call. You call it three in the morning.

You call your parents, wake them up, you know. It was terrible. The gaps under the doors were probably five or six inches big. And they had rats that would crawl under the doors and just be in your cell with you. People would fight for the top bunk. Because the rats, I mean, they were huge. It was the most disgusting place I ever been in my life. And I was like, man, if I have to do five.

years of this. I'm going to lose my shit. My mind. What was the food like? Oh, terrible. Oh, you know, I think the first, I think the first two weeks, it was just a brown paper. She's sandwich? Yeah, the green or the green bologna, you know. Green bologna. Yeah, the bologna was like, you know, it wasn't even bologna. It was like Kyle's tongue, we called it, like that weird meat. And it was like green moldy. Like, yeah, I'm not eating that. Lost a lot of weight. I bet. So then they finally bring you to. So then, yeah, they finally four, I think it was like four, four and a half hour bus ride from Atlanta to Kentucky. To the medium.

What was it like your first day there? First day there was interesting. So I guess literally right before I got there, there was a riot. Like race, kind of race, you know, D.C. versus the whites. So, like, I walk on the pod and, like, there's, like, me and, like, four white dudes. That's it. I'm like, okay. So I was used to, you know, prison at that point.

I mean, I did a couple weeks in Oklahoma City, then Atlanta, did all that time a couple months up at the holdover. So, like, I'm not scared or, you know, I mean, anything like that. But when you walk in there and I know how the politics work, right? I mean, the politics were, they were even starting to politic a little bit in Atlanta, like, who you're going to sell with. Like, it was even starting a little bit in Atlanta, and you had no control there. So, it was an experience, though. I mean, you know, shell-shocked when you see and you step foot on the compound and you're like, this college camp. I mean, I mean, it's still a medium.

Don't be wrong, I got two fences and it's not a camp or a low. But I'm like, that's a dorm room. I mean, it's like, it's set up as a college campus. I think it had four, we had four houses with eight, eight units two in each house. So, yeah, it was an experience. Who did you gravitate towards the whites? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we, not that, that's just, you know, that's the life you live in that, in that environment, you know.

Were the whites separated by like different groups or? Yeah, so there was some. Like there was some AB guys, some A-B guys, you know, that they, but I mean, there wasn't a lot of them, you know. I think there might have been like five or six A-Bs and then like two or three A-B-Ts or what, Texas A-Bs. So most of the whites ran as what they call independent, you know, or independent white boys. I think there was some Peckerwoods from California over there. But for the most, everybody was, you know, ran independent and all the whites did hung together. Did you follow the politics at all?

Or did you have to? Yeah, we had to. I mean, we weren't like, you know, there were certain things we followed, you know, and getting off the bus to me and the other white kid that were on the bus. Only two white dudes on the bus. They put us in the cell first night on this compound with the D.C. black. So, and then dudes are like, you're not going in there. You're not, you know, that we don't do that here.

So my first night at my home jail, I refused to lock in. for count at 9 p.m. Or I think it was 8 p.m. back then, yeah. What would it happen if you locked in with him? I don't think anything. Like, the white dudes were like, man, it's up to you. It's just one night. We're going to get you moved in the morning when the security guard comes.

But, like, I'm not putting myself in a position to where, like, I have to do something. I'm going to regret, right? I don't know. First off, I don't know the white dude or the D.C. dude, right? I don't know either of them. So, and I just felt like, and I asked the other dude, you know, Mike was his name, he was from Iowa or Illinois, Iowa. He was just on a violation. And I was like, what do you want to do?

He's a little burnout hippie, like older guy. And he's like, I ain't locking in there. He was like, it's up to you, though. And I'm like, dude, this is my first day on this compound. Like, so we go to the sergeant's office. You know, first thing they do, cuff you, take you the sergeant's office. He's like, what's the problem? I said, listen, man.

the politics or the politics. You know that. He was like, it's just one night. And I said, I don't care if it's one night. I said, just put me in the shoe. We don't have no beds in the shoe. I said, well, then we got a real problem, Sergeant, because I'm not locking in there.

I'm not doing it. The other dude is like, I'm doing the same thing. Just one night. You guys can't deal with this for one night. And you know, where I was at in Kentucky, I mean, it was huge. They were all racist. Like all them guards.

Like, I was like, I knew, you know, and you could tell. how they are. And I'm like, would you be cool with your daughter for one night? Like, was that's fine? And he was like, well, no, that's different. We're not talking about that. And I'm like, it's the same. Put me in the shoe or remove myself. It's simple. I'll go with this guy. And there was probably 10, 12 open cells on the range because of, there was just a war, literally like two weeks before we got there and like bunch of stabbings. Like, they had airlift people out of there. And I'm like, the white boys are telling us that it was between them and D.C. And like, and now you want me and just to go in there with this DC dude.

Nothing against DC dude. I know the dude. But like, no, not putting myself in that position. It ain't happening. You also don't know if you're being tested by the other white guys too. Exactly. Absolutely. Because they were the pod that I went on, like all the white dudes there, like didn't do nothing.

Like, and they just like ran. They ran to the CO's office and everything during this war. So now I'm like, I mean, there was only like five or six of us when I got there on that. the white boy was on that pot and then like within the next week they did like a reeve thing and they took a bunch of people so they evened it out because I'm like this is crazy but yeah we refused to lock in first night in my home jail were you afraid you know going into this prison I wouldn't say afraid but like I had worries you know like yeah I mean like you you hear the stories you know I mean I wasn't on the compound 40 minutes and like they already showed me knives

Like, I mean, I was like, oh, my God, like, what? They were like, come out, come outside after Chow. You know, walking the track and, like, met with a shark. Sharky, I think his name was, like, the boss. And, you know, and I was like, the shock caller for the whites for the yard. And, you know, met him and got paperwork sent in, like, I mean, the whole nine yards. Are you thinking you're going to have to use them, the knives? I was hoping not.

But like, I mean, you're at a position. Like, if I had to, I would have at that time. You know, I mean, that point in my mind, if I had to, I would have. I didn't want to. But how long did it take to adjust the time in there to get into a routine, to get comfortable? It took a while. I mean, I would say a good three, four weeks before you're like, you know, you get your job and then you don't like that job. You try to get something, you know, you're, I tell everybody, man, you'll meet the most entrepreneurial people in the world in prison.

I mean, these dudes know how to swindle everybody and get what they want, right? I mean, they had to the point where, you know, we are whatever they call them, the secretary for the guy or the unit. He would, like, he would scribble the secretaries, like, fords the secretary's name to get you the job you want. So, I mean, I'm like, dude, I want to be a, I'm like, I already know where the money is, right? Kitchen. I want to be a cook. So he's like, I can't get you as a cook. He's like, but I can put you over there as a, like the cleanup people.

The dishwasher, yeah. No, not a dishwasher. He was a, like, guys would go around with the little brooms in the chow hall. So I was like, all right, get me in there. So I mean, he's like, oh, get some books. And I was like, dude, I'll call him a series for you. I gave him a couple books. Boom, he gets to be in there.

So I'm in there doing my sweet job in the CEO. He started yelling one day at something. And I'm still yelling and hotheaded. So I snap, right? Take me to the hole. get out of the, you know, just yelling. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking to like that? Like, just because you got that badge on, like, we're real people at the end of the day, right?

Treat us with respect. We'll show you respect. Get out of the hole and then I get a, I land a cook job. I'm not on the compound six months and I'm a, I'm a cook. I'm a dinner cook. So, you know, we're smuggling food. I mean, you get a lot of money there. I mean, so I'd say three to four weeks before I got into my, after I got out of the hole for the first time.

for arguing with the cops. Um, three to four weeks before I was settled in with a routine, workout partners. We had free weights still. Um, we were one of the last ones that had free weights. When I was there,

we had washers and dryers on the unit. Like we had our own washers and dryers. I think we had four, five washers, five dryers, five microwaves, um, TVs,

all that were right on the unit. We never had to go. Um, we didn't have TV rooms. I mean, it's just an, big day room. You're segregated TVs and...

How much could you make smuggling? Oh, man. Unlimited. I mean, depending on how much you wanted to and how much you were worried. Like, so we would take loads of bread, you know, bread's huge there. I mean, you'd empty all the bread out and you get the bread bags. And I think Wednesday, I think it was Wednesday, was chicken die day or maybe it was Thursday. We would take nine leg quarters and you'd stuff them in the bag.

and suck all the air on, and you would strap them to your legs with ace bandages. So you would have one on each side of each leg down the center, down in the back. These pieces of chicken would go for like $2, back on a unit. Oh, man, you make so much money. You make so much money. But I smoked cigarettes, so that killed me, you know, because I would buy cigarettes and packs of cigarettes and gambling and drinking. You went back to the gambling in prison? Oh, yeah, yeah.

What would you guys play? Pover. Poker. Yeah, poker. Drinking, smoking cigarettes, smoking the Indian tobacco, whatever they remember. The Indian, used to get that Indian tobacco. I mean, people, I mean, I've seen people pick up, use dip and, like, put it in. I wasn't doing that.

And what were you, for the liquor, was it just hooch, or was it the white lightning? Well, so the cellie, my cellie that we didn't lock down with, he used to make white lightning. Man. Do you know how that's made? Yeah. It's, I don't know the whole process. Right. But once you get it to wine, then they, they heated up. And he got these copper tubes. Like, I think you got them from the AC guys that would fix, like, the plumbers. And he would run that through the sink.

So into an ice bath where it would boil it and then it would put it into an ice bag. And I would just remember seeing it would just sit there and drip, like a little drip of like the condensation and drip. And that would be the liquor. But man, that's stronger than anything out in this street. And it's clear. It's crystal clear. It looks like water. That's crazy. Yeah.

The hooch. I mean, we would drink hooch. You know, we would take the sink, the back of the toilet plate off and hang the wine down there. We would hang it. If we were on the top tier, we would hang it down low enough. So it was in between the two cells. So they couldn't tell whose it was. They would just take it, you know.

Did you guys have phones there, cell phones? There was some, like towards the end of my bid. There was a few, but no, no real cell phones hit the arm there. I mean, we had cigarettes. There was drugs, pills, marijuana, there was all kind of stuff. But cell phones wasn't big. Like, I mean, when I went to jail, like, the Blackberry was the thing to have. They didn't have no, no smartphones were out or anything when I got indicted. What about the programs at the prison? Were there any available for you? Yeah. So they, like I said, they had all the construction. All them trade programs were there. They had the non-residential drug program. They didn't have R-Dap where I was at. Yeah, so they had some programs. They GED if you didn't graduate or anything, they did have all that stuff.

Yeah, that was really it. If you wanted to do right, there was enough stuff there that you could do right. What was your mindset? The first six months I was there, I was on dummy mission mode, you know, like getting tattoos, you know, drinking. gambling, you know, like, I'm here for five years, right? I mean, I was like, I'm not saying I'm whaling out. I'm not going to get indicted for, but, but then after the six months and, like, that all wore off.

I'm like, now I'm ready to go home. Like, and that's when I really, like, sat down and looked at my life and, like, realized, like, what do you want out of this? Like, now's a pivotal point in your life to where, like, you got to make a choice. Like, are you going to be the career guy? Are you going to be the guy? next time it's going to be a nickel, you know, next time it's going to be a quarter,

25, 30, life, who knows. Or you're going to go home. I had a little baby girl that was born while I was on house arrest. My son was probably five or six at the time. You got to go home and do right for them, you know, and that's the choice I had. And I just said, I'm done living that life, man. I'm done living on the run, looking over my shoulder.

Like, and just never look back. Did you hear from any of your co-defendants at all? Yeah, yeah, we would pass kites through friends. Like, nobody was at the prison I was at. So it was weird. They kind of put us, they had like separaties on most of us. Like they wouldn't, like me and my co-defendant were on the police chase. Like, they wouldn't let us nowhere near each other ever.

Like any jail we ever went to, like we were never allowed on the same pods. Like they, so I heard from like his dad would send, he'd write his dad a letter and his dad would send it to me and back and forth. So I heard from a few of them. But not really. I was done with it. You know, I'm like, I'm done with them dudes. Like, they're knuckleheads. Like, they're not going to learn.

They're going to come home. I can't associate with them if I'm trying to change my life for the better, you know, and be there for my kids. Do you spend all your time at that facility? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So you never gotten any trouble or anything.

Well, so yes. So my point, so my points got low enough. They were going to send me to a low. And I didn't want to go. I'm two years in. I had a good job in the kitchen. I had the bunk. I had the sell I wanted.

I didn't want to go. So that's when I got a, I got a hundred series for fighting. Like literally. You picked the fight? Yeah. With like one of my friends because I didn't want to go. And he was the same thing.

So like we picked a fight with each other. They put us in the hole. We got a shot, got our points back up. About a year before I was ready to come home, my points dropped again. And then I got caught, getting a tattoo.

We got four o'clock count. I just left a guy. I was just tattooing. I mean, they gave me another shot, so I stayed. I didn't want to leave. I don't want to go through all that transit again. No, that's smart. I mean, I'd rather stay at one facility.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I would have rather went to a low or a camp or something, but like I wasn't destined for that. I had, my points were too high because of the, they still used that homicide case against me on my point level. So, I mean, that was my first time. That was my first and only felony was the feds. Like, I shouldn't have been at a medium.

Yeah. Should have been at a low. But with your drug use and your background, I'm surprised I didn't give you ARDAP to get home earlier. So I was going to get RDAP. But so I could have. But by the way, my time was split up that when I went home on house arrest, the time I would have got back, that would have been the same thing. They would have had to take me out, find me a bed somewhere else. And he was like, what time you get to this new prison that has the program, he's like, you might save two or three months.

because of just the way the classes are. And I'm like, I'll stay here. Stay here. I'll do two extra months before I have to go through Atlanta and all that again. Like, I'll stay here. So how much time do you end up serving on 63 months? 50 and, uh, 58. And do they give you halfway house time or now?

Yeah. I think I got 60 days halfway house. Not much. Not much. Why didn't they give me more? Because of the shots or, so that kind of burned you. It burned me in the long run. And so I,

I got the last shot and I got another shot like so I had a release date of I think it was November then I caught a shot in like October like 15th or something right now I was like oh man so it was another tattoo shot and I was like oh man this is gonna fuck my my home date's gonna get screwed up so I asked the DHO office I said listen man I have a like I have a halfway house date in 14 days is this going to screw it up he's like no he's like you don't just extend your halfway house It's not what happened. I find that like two days before I was ready to come home,

that hey, you're not going home. That sucks. Parents were packed up, ready to come pick me out, like everything. Like, I think I had an extra 90 days I had to do because it had. How to feel to be a dad while in prison, especially with your newborn and... Useless. Going through that.

It felt useless. Like, nothing I could do to help or, like, it was terrible. Like, I mean, you're just, you're, you're, You're you, I mean, there's nothing you can do. You know, what are you saying? Yeah, you can get some pillows made. You know, you had the guy on the block, the entrepreneur. That's making, you know, hand feet, sponge bob pillows and stuff.

You know, I'd sent that home, but like, that's nothing. You know, it was nothing. I didn't see my son one time when I was gone. Was that by choice or? No, but I understood why he didn't. I would have wanted him to come. His mother didn't want him to, and I agreed with her at the time. You know, I'm not going to fight and argue.

Like, I got enough stress in there. Like, it is what it is, you know. I wanted them to come, but. Did that motivate you to do better when you got out? Absolutely. Yeah, him, my two kids, you know, that I have are, like, they motivated me to be the way I am today. and then my wife's two kids that she brought into this,

like my four kids mean everything to me. How old are you coming out of prison? So I think I was 28, 28, 29. What did you want out of life at that point? What was your plan? To be a productive citizen. Like, that was my goal. I knew, didn't have education outside of high school, you know,

and cars is all I knew, you know, automotive. you know, fix and stuff. So, and that was my plan. Like, I thought about going back to school and trying to get a degree. But, like, at the same time, like, I'd come home, like, I got five years to catch up on bills and my kids and being that stuff. So looking back now, I wish I would have. I wish I would have went and got a degree outside or even started inside. I just wanted to be there for my kids. What do you end up getting into? What do you mean? Like for work, did you stick with the cars? Yeah, yeah, I'm still automotive.

So tractor trailers now. Since I've been home, I mean, I've had city jobs. I've ran like garages from the city of 20, you know, county jobs. I mean, I've had big jobs. So the felony hasn't affected it at all. I have no idea how. Like, but I mean, I think the bat, a lot of background checks don't check federal felons. Yeah, just federal sex offenders.

Federal sex offenders. I've had that too. No issues. And I'm like, what? I'm like, approved. Like, oh, okay. Like, yeah. It's crazy.

Yeah. I mean, they check, you know, your state felonies and all that. But like, I think an FBI background check is a lot of money. I think it's very expensive. And that's why a lot of people don't do it. Yeah. I think the sex offender registry is easier because that I think comes up on state too. Correct.

So it's easier to look for federal. Yes. The child sex redditors. That's the only thing they ever check federally. I mean. Yeah, because it doesn't come up for housing or any of that. When I applied to Whole Foods, none of it came up. Yeah, nothing ever comes up.

So that was, you know, a blessing. I mean, so I've been able to, since I've been home, I've been able to get a good career and, you know, move on. Did it technically count it as like a violent felony on your charges or no? It wasn't, no, no violence. So, I mean, they held the police chases of violent, though, you know, so. But no, I mean, no violence. Thank God. How long you've been home for over like 10 years?

No, I come home in 2012, so I've been home for 16. Wow. Yeah. Has it affected you at all? I know you said it hasn't affected the job, but for housing, credit, anything, having the felony? I mean, my credit was destroyed. And also to this day, banks, right? They give you a hard time?

They'll just stop. They'll close your account for no reason and say, I don't have to give you a reason. For the drug offense, really? Yeah. I know I deal with it for fraud. Yeah, no, they'll close your bank. I've had probably every major bank just close me. I mean, I'll be there for two years.

Not like I'm burning them for money or anything like that, you know, and they'll just be like, you'll go to logging your account one day and say you don't have an account. You call them and say, well, mail you a check within 90 days. We choose not to do business with you. Yeah, Capital One does that to me, but they'll give me a car loan, but they won't give me. A bank account. Yeah, they'll open the bank account or the credit account. Let it go for a couple months and cancel it.

But they'll give me the car loan. It doesn't make sense. It don't. I have no idea why, but I've been through that with a few different banks, housing. When I first come home, it was, it wasn't really the felony, but it was like, where you've been for five years? Like, where's your work history for five years? You know, you don't have that, you know, so they look at you and then, what do you tell them? Do you talk to anyone you were in prison with? Yeah. You still friendly with them?

Yeah. Not a lot. The ones that are still left alive. I got about one, two maybe. Yeah, two and then that I still talk to. The other guy, one, the guy was his wife, he's still in. He's still in. Do your kids know you went to prison? Yeah. Yeah, they do now.

Yeah. How do they feel about it? I mean, I think they were so young when it happened. So, like, they don't realize, like, what could have happened or what really happened. You know, they know that, yeah, I guess. got accused of selling drugs and drugs and this and that. But they don't really know. They were so young, which I'm thankful for.

How are you doing now today? Great. They're living great. Married last year. Kids. I mean, we're doing really good. You know, it's always so good to have the people that have, like, done prison time like you, but it's so long ago. Like most people that come on the show, it's recently.

Right. They got out. But when you have someone like you that's been out for almost 20 years, it kind of shows. it kind of shows or it gives people hope that there are other options. Absolutely. And, you know, that's what I, you know, that's what I always, I get involved with my community and stuff. Like, I love to hit the youth.

Like, you know, tell the youth, like, man, that's not the life to live. Like, there is different options. It's not easy. I mean, yeah, it might be easier to do, sell drugs and get all this money, but that's not the life you want to live. I mean, because in the, at the end of the day, you're going to jail sooner or later. I've never met a retired drug dealer, right?

Who's met a retired drug dealer or, you know, a retired, anything, any criminal. You've never met one that retired. They get caught. Sooner or later, you can get caught or worse. Do you think the money at the time was worth the prison sentence? No. No. You probably made more now legally than illegally over the course of your career.

Absolutely. And have more to show for it? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, but to hand that kind of money to a 19-year-old kid, you know, like, it's a lot of money. At least you made you do more mistakes, yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it definitely wasn't worth it. If I could go back, you know, the biggest questions, would you change anything? I wouldn't because that made me the man I am today, right? I mean, I learned from the mistakes. Yeah, I didn't want to do the time, obviously, but I would hate to be my age now and, like, learn the hard lesson that I had to learn there. Why do you think you had to go through what you won through? I don't know.

I mean, I just, you know, I want to be cliche with the wrong people, but I just seen other people with money and that. And I just, I wanted it, you know, like I wanted that for myself. and then just made bad decisions. Terrible, bad, bad decisions. I mean, there's no other explanation for it. I mean, just made bad decisions based on money. I mean, it all comes down to money. How are you and your dad today?

Great, great, great. I mean, couldn't be more supportive of him and my mom. I mean, they've been, I mean, so I was nine. I was like eight and a half hours away, the prison I was at from where I live. I mean, it was coming weekends, weekend, weekend. I mean, nonstop. I had the huge support system in there, which I wouldn't have been able to do it without them. I'd probably still be in there if it wasn't for them.

You know, sooner or later, they're like, what are you going to do with just, you know, like still getting them hard talks while I'm in there for my dad. Like, what are you going to do? Like, there's just a point where you got to make the decision, and I hope you make the right decision. Well, Josh, I appreciate you coming out on the show today. Absolutely. I appreciate being here.

Yeah, and I wish you continued success in your first. future. All right. Thank you. You too. Thank you.