Locked In with Ian Bick - The First Term I Learned In Prison | Jamie Anderson

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Jamie Anderson shares how multiple DUI arrests landed her in rehabs and boot cam, in which she had to learn how to survive and navigate a unique form of punishment in the American Justice System. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Connect with Jamie Anderson: https://www.instagram.com/jamie_reformed?igsh=NnppZnM1dzExb2s1&utm_source=qr https://www.tiktok.com/@jamie_reformed?_t=8mBNtCxtVGB&_r=1 Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:06:31 - Financial fear and bullying experiences 00:12:50 - Embracing Authenticity and Overcoming Challenges 00:19:43 - Dealing with Toxic Relationships 00:26:49 - The Start of a Downward Spiral 00:33:38 - Multiple Incidents and Trespassing Charges 00:40:13 - Resentencing and Revocation of Probation 00:46:57 - Introduction to State Prison Experience 00:54:06 - A Tale of Cellmates 01:00:44 - Boot Camp Experience 01:13:59 - Life Post-Prison and Fugitive Love Story 01:20:45 - Failed Attempts at Becoming a Heroin Addict 01:27:05 - From Bad Girl to Mother 01:33:46 - Unexpected Events 01:40:47 - The Progression of Illness and Loss of Mobility Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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includes raw salvage denim and timeless essentials designed to age beautifully, like fine wine. Discover the collection at agjeens.com and enjoy 15% off with code summer 15, even if you've shopped with us before. You get seven minutes to eat your food and you had to have your non-dominant hand on your lap the whole time you're eating. Somebody took their non-dominant hand off of their lap while they were eating to like grab their cup or something. A CEO came up, started screaming at this lady for doing what she did, told her to stand up.

He said, pick up your cup. She picks up her cup. He's like, all right, I want you to walk around this chow hall and I want you to say this over and over again until I tell you to stop. He's like, you got it? She's like, yes, sir. This is my cup. There are many like it, but this one is nine. Welcome back to the Lockton with the InVic podcast.

On today's episode, we have an extremely different perspective than what we're used to on the show. Jamie Anderson reveals how she ended up getting sentenced to a boot camp as her punishment for her crimes. That's right, a boot camp. This is a fascinating episode, and it gives a really different perspective of the criminal justice system and what they used to do in the United States. States as a form of punishment and might even still do in some states. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with Jamie Anderson. So let's get into your story then. Where are you from? Where'd you grow up? Well, I guess that depends. I mean, I was born in Austin,

Texas, and I spent like the first five years of my life there. So what happened was is my dad was a vicious alcoholic, my biological father, right? And, you know, um, at around age five, he was like in and out of jail throughout the first five years of my life. I can like remember like seeing him through the plexiglass and like going to visit him through like, you know, on a phone and just being able to like see him. And one night, you know, he casually decided he was going to get drunk and then try and stab my mom. What? I swear to God. Um, that particular night, I noticed that the argument sounded a a little different because it was like a nightly routine for them you know what I mean and I if you've ever like heard people argue like there's levels you know what I mean so one particular night it sounded a little

extra ordinary so I decided I was gonna like I never left my room when this would go down but this time I did and when I came out my dad had like already had the knife in his hand and like turned to look at me to tell me to go back my room and my mom grabbed it from him and she like had a scar on her hand Oh, sorry. You're good. No worry. He didn't break it. Yeah, that's cool.

So, yeah, so he went to jail and... He got arrested that night. Oh, yeah. And then my mom called, you know, her family. She's got four brothers. And obviously, her parents, my grandparents, and they all brought moving trucks down from Pennsylvania, three-day drive and packed us all up and, like, took us back to Pennsylvania.

My brother's only one at the time, so he doesn't really remember anything. But from five till, you know, five till prison grew up in, I guess, Milton, Pennsylvania, very small town. Diversity, all-time low. So that is, that is where I grew up. What do you get charged with attempted murder or was it an assault? I think it was just like assault with a deadly weapon. And is he still in jail? No, you know, he would actually, I wouldn't hear from him again until I was eight.

And then eight was the last time I ever saw him and it was only one time. So you haven't seen them since you were eight? No. And then a few years after I got out, I got a call from the second largest county in California from like the coroner's office telling me that they like found my information via like the legal system and wanted to let me know that, you know, my dad had been found dead and like a roach motel. Holy shit. Basically died of his alcoholism is what I would say. And they asked me if I wanted to pay to have him, you know, cremated or whatever and sent back to Pennsylvania. And I was like, nope.

I was like, but here's my brother's phone number. How do you feel about that decision now? Now it's a little different. I feel like in the moment I just wasn't ready to have that conversation and it caught me off guard in the middle of my own. battle with my daughter's father's alcoholism. So I was already like projecting that situation onto another person. So I just wasn't in a mental spot to be like, you know what? Let me be the bigger person here and be like, you know what?

I can empathize and understand. And I now know what you were experiencing and why it was so hard for you to come back. But we just never had that conversation. So. How's your relationship with your brother during that time? period. Oh, me and my brother didn't get along until also after prison. Okay. So prison mended all the wounds together. I swear to God it did. Um, so when you guys get to Pennsylvania, it was just you, your mom and your brother. Yeah. And then your grandparents and other relatives. Yeah. So we lived

with my grandma and my grandfather who were divorced at the time. So like we lived for my grandmother for like a year and then we like moved to my grandfathers for another year. Um, so yeah. How was your relationship with your mom? My mom was like, lover to death, you know, but she was the type of mom who like, I don't know if you've ever experienced anyone like this, but like let's say I took a test, right? And I brought home the test. It's like an 88. Great grade, right? Would be completely excited about that grade.

But my mom would be like, well, why didn't you get like an A? like what prevented you from getting an A instead of like, you know, giving me some credit for like what I did do. It was always like, well, how can you be better? And that was not how it was with my brother. Hindsight's 2020 though, you know what I mean? Because she was also the oldest daughter in her own family. And so am I. And so I think when you're a woman, like maybe a part of it is like preparing you for a world that's not going to put you on an equal playing field.

You know what I mean? Yeah. When you guys were living in Pennsylvania, did you guys have money? Were you struggling? Middle class? I would say, I would say middle class. My mom ended up getting like a decent job that you probably need a degree for now. And she stayed at that job for 25 years.

So, yeah. I wouldn't say struggling, but it's not like we got extra stuff. Like I have this like internal financial fear, even though like my bank account, sounds fine. You know what I mean? Like constantly afraid I'm like the type of person who's on the electric company website like looking at the the units that we're using per day. And then if it's too high, I'll be like, what hour is doing? What's triggering this? You know what I mean? I feel like a lot of people are probably like that. You think. Yeah, I think there's a lot of analytical people about money, right? I mean, I would hope so. But like, I mean, who knows?

Yeah, I guess you never know. Some people don't care. Some people, like, have this mindset where it's like they can't have money. Like, if they have it, they spend it. No. You're not going to catch me slipping. Like, what happens if there's like an earthquake tomorrow? Yeah. You know, insurance is only going to cover so much.

Where did you get this mentality from? I don't think it goes from your parents, was it? It kind of was just because, like, I just constantly grew up hearing, like, we can't afford that. We can't afford that. And it was always in regards to, like, things that I selfishly wanted, right? So like I associated like material possessions with like you can't afford that. And then we have a midlife crisis and all of a sudden, 33 years old, we can afford whatever we want. For the makeover.

So what is this look you're going for? Is it like a goth book or what is it? I don't think it would be God. How do you describe it? I don't even know what you would call it. I'm just trying to be me. Okay. That's a great answer.

I guess I'm into like tarot and stuff. What's that? Tarot cards? Oh, like the cards, okay. Yeah, so maybe it's like a... So it's not pronounced like tarot. I don't know. I guess I pronounce it a tarot cards.

Would I see it on TikTok with the tea? You're joking. No, I'm being serious. I can't. What, it's not a tarot card? No, it's not a tarot card. That's what I thought it was. It's got a T.

What's the purpose of putting the tea on it? I thought it was a T for a tarot. No? No, no. No. Tarot, silent tea. Well, thankfully you came on the show today to correct that. Otherwise, I'd be getting it wrong for years. You're welcome.

I do always see those in my TikTok, though. Me too. Yeah, they always pop up. And they're pretty accurate. Well, also same. Also same. I am curious why they're popping up on your TikTok. That's not normal?

Well, I just thought they were popping up on mine because I'm interested in it. I mean, I'm big into, like, you know, spiritual, like things happen for. a reason, the universe. I'm a big believer and all that. Are you a manifester? Absolutely. Are you doing the eclipse? No, I don't, I don't follow all that. Come on now. But I'm like, I'm into like the astrology and like the, I don't know, just I'm curious about all the stuff. I think everything happens for a reason and the universe and I'm on that same page. Yeah, I just, I don't know. It's just every, literally everyone you meet in life, because it's recently a lot of people that I met in the past in some way, shape or form are kind of coming full circle, especially in business.

Like, you really never know what somewhere is going to lead. So, and then my whole life is based on things happening for a reason. I mean, I went to prison and now I have this. So if that's not the universe, I don't know what is at that point. No, it's so crazy that you say that because I feel like I periodically get like this overwhelming sense of gratitude just because I think about like all the experiences that I've had. And I feel like everybody does this to like some degree. But I think like I wouldn't change anything. Like I wouldn't go back and do it differently. Maybe if I had hurt someone, that answer would be different. But that's just not what happened for me. But I'm truly grateful that like my crimes happen the way they happen. My consequences have.

happened the way that they happened because if they didn't, I wouldn't be where I'm at, having the life that I currently have. Absolutely. High school, what was that like for you? Terrible. Were you bullied? Yeah. Okay. What were you bullied for? I was bullied too, so I can relate. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I was the fat kid. You were fat? Yeah, I was a chubster. They called me Twinkie. No. Yeah, I actually posted my yearbook picture on my Instagram story, and it's like me with like three chids and it's just it's bad. Well, you show me after. Yeah, I'll show you after.

I mean, all my images of me are on Google from all the articles that used to write about me. I went into prison almost. It was like 290, 290 pounds. You went in at 290. Yeah, I had a lot of baby fat on me. I still got the baby face, but. So did you lose the weight in? Yeah, I lost.

I lost. I mean, throughout my life, I've always been like chubby, and then I maybe slimmed down a little high school. And then during the club days, I put on all that weight, strut. Press eating, running the club, late night McDonald's, Denny's, Taco Bell, all of that. And yeah, it was the heaviest. There's this video that I found. It was me at, like, this Mexican restaurant in downtown Danbury, like, just, like, dancing

around, and I'm just, like, huge. And I would wear, like, these cargo shorts and, like, a black t-shirt was my look. I would always have, like, some type of cargo shorts on. I always wore shorts. Really? Yeah, and a pair of sneakers. I wasn't, I've never really been into clothes. That wasn't really my thing.

What was your thing? Food. Oh, thank you. Yeah. No, I'm saying like, no, like. Not here's shooting at me right there. I was not shooting. I know.

I'm kidding. It's like, do you feel like you had an unhealthy relationship with food? Not really because it wasn't like a disorder. It was just like I just ate, you know? I wasn't taking care of my body. So like I think I have the same relationship with food now that I did back then. The only difference is I work out now. Yeah.

I'm active. I'm physical. Back then I was just, I've always been very. ambitious, hardworking, but I wasn't going the gym. I wasn't taking care of myself and then just that amount of stress that you're under. There's nothing that you could compare that to. It was just very stressful times. Oh, yeah. I mean, I went through a little bout of depression when I initially arrived on scene. You know what I mean? Arrived on scene. So what did they bully you for?

So here's the piece. What you have to understand is my aesthetic now is directly correlated to my aesthetic then. I'll say that. I was like the emo kid. I like, you know, was into that music. I still have it on my playlist till this day. You know, nostalgia. Like the slip knot type stuff? Or is that emo? Don't. No, I don't know. I don't want to insult anyone, but I'm just that. I'm, I wouldn't say no, not slip knot. No, no shade to those who like a slip knot. I'm no shit. I swear no shade. Ages in your ear? Yeah. I tried to do that. Did you? Yeah, I got just the very lowest. It was like the regular piercing.

I used to go to Hot Topic and Spencer's. I went through that whole face. I had my hair long with the hats. I'd wear like DC clothes and DC shoes. I even went as far as Karen around a skateboard because I didn't know how to skate, but all my friends skated. Really? Yeah, the pants, everything. I went through it.

I would say like I did stretch my ears. I was like up to an inch by the time I was, and for reference, it's like the size of a quarter, I'd say. Are they still stretched? Oh, yeah. It never goes away. No, so like this is how small they have gotten. That's not terrible. No.

But I feel like I just felt different. Like elementary school, like when the, I know we were in high school, but for context. elementary school when the kids had their like free time during class to like specifically fourth grade my fourth grade teacher mrs. Somm, shout out, um, had like guinea pigs, hamsters, like parakeet. She had like animals in the room and like the we, the kids could, or part of our activities was like cleaning out the cages and putting new stuff in the cages, you know, teaching, I guess teaching us responsibility. I don't know. But during like the free play, like everybody else would like when I'm like you know click up and you know whatever and I would sit on the like rug that had like the states on it and read Harry Potter the whole time.

I love Harry Potter. Yeah. I read it in prison. Okay. I was like 11. Yeah. Well, no, I loved the movies growing up. But I actually sat down to read them in prison.

So you were one of those people who watched movies first? Yeah, I went to the Harry Potter premiere, the Goblet of Fire. My dad was a caterer for it. And I got to meet Emma Watson and Daniel Radcliffe, Rupert Grent. It was, you know, the one where they did the whole, um, the ice dance or whatever, where they had the dance where it was the cathedral and it was ice. Um, during the Galville of Fire. They recreated that scene, that ballroom.

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Visit mopar.com for complete details. And a copy of the PowerDrain Limited warranty. Comments is a registered trademark of Cummins, Inc. Ram and Hemley are registered trademarks of FCAUS LLC. I've got to go to that in this city. Really? How old were you? Probably 11 or 12.

Okay. It was like seventh grade. Was Emma Watson your first crush? Yes or no? Yeah. I cherish that picture. I don't know where it is now. It's got to be somewhere.

You gotta go find it. I was in love with that girl. I was in love with her. Her and Hillary Duff. Really? Yeah, I had a poster of Hillary Duff in my room. Yeah. Dang.

Yeah. I was also in the high school marching band. I don't think that, like, aided. That didn't help. No, that didn't help. So I just, like, made myself look unapproachable because I didn't want people to approach me. Because I just felt, like, different from others. like I couldn't appropriately socially engage with my peers that like didn't like what I liked.

What's something you would tell a kid that feels that way now that's in school? I would say the lessons you're going to learn in high school, definitely some of them are going to suck. But one thing you are going to come to terms with is that you literally just need, you literally just need like a couple people that are your people. And that'll translate well into adulthood because you can't be friends with every. Not everybody's on your level. And you also need to own who you are. For sure. Like just be your genuine self.

We were talking about authenticity out there. Absolutely. Just be genuine, be yourself. And that's it. Like I embraced my authentic self in high school. And I was just in everyone's face about me being who I was. I wore like a suit and tie to school and carried around a briefcase. Because I was like this business nerd kid.

Like ninth grade on? Yeah, like 10th grade. I started my businesses and charity and I own that persona. What business? What are you talking about? What business is in charity? I had a party. Like I did these teen club nights and I did this fight for the homeless thing where I sold wristbands for a dollar apiece for the local charity.

Just did all these things. Very ambitious hustler type of kid. And I just owned that. People made fun of me. But like if, you know, anyone, I would encourage anyone that's going through something like that just. own who you are. Fuck everyone else. A lot of it's out of jealousy anyways.

That's true. And you've got to play to your strengths. You know what I mean? And if you're trying to be someone you're not, you're not playing to your strengths. How do you think one of your friends would describe you back then if we had them here? Oh, I was, I'd say probably funny. Maybe a little bit of a sarcastic kind of funny. I can see that.

Borderline mean? Mean. Not like in a way where it was like at an underdog, right? More so at a way where I was like towards the people who would be considered popular, you know, just to keep them humble. Like brutally honest type of person? Yeah. Okay. Like the girl and mean girls.

That was just like always honest. No, I wouldn't say exactly like that. Janice, right? Janice Avery was right? Don't freaking call me Janice. Is that a compliment? No. No, I would say that was probably how I was, though.

I just, what you saw is what you got. How would your mom describe you? Were you like a good kid, just, you know, normal? I would say if we're talking about high school. I was definitely a good kid, I would say probably until about my senior year. What happened? I started drinking. And where did that come from?

Like, how'd that start? Um, well, I had gotten into this relationship. It always starts with a man. I know, man. They'll take you down. Um, if you're a woman out there and you're going through it, I just want you to know, um, just leave. Leave before it gets worse. Men suck.

Uh, fuck the, fuck the patriarchy. Um, but, uh, no. So, yeah. So we get into this relationship. Um, he likes to smoke weed. Um, um, I try. I give it a valiant effort, but with the way that I am, it made me immediately feel like I was having like a level below a panic attack, probably. But because I liked him so much and he liked that, I just kept doing it, kept putting myself through these torturous situations.

Right? So we got together when I was 17. So when I turned 18, that's when we started drinking. And then I would just like, he was in college. So he had every Friday off off. So I would call into my high school and call myself off pretending to be my mom. I could really put it on. I was good.

I almost got caught only one time. And that is because my brother was also sick the same morning I was calling off, but I didn't know. So I called in, called myself off. Then my mom calls in and calls my brother off. And they're like, hey, didn't she just call in? And she's like, what? And I was like, no, that's crazy. So did you get caught or no?

I think my mom was a G and she, you know, stood on it. But she definitely called me immediately after. But the drinking really didn't get bad, I would say, until like probably end of my first year, beginning of my second year of college the first time. Knowing what you know about your dad now, do you think it got passed down to you? Oh, for sure. I think the reason why I didn't start drinking until I was 18, because I feel like most kids probably start way earlier. Like, did you?

Yeah, like not as an issue, but. Yeah, well, when's the first time you ever tried alcohol? Probably 13, 12, and then we started drinking Dubra in high school to do cool. Think we were cool and stuff, mixing it jungle juice and whatnot. Well, okay, so part of that, like. Like my mom would always say, like, you better not drink. You don't want to end up like your dad, you know? And so, like, I didn't drink for until I was 18 out of pure fear.

And then, like, it happened anyway, you know, which was kind of ironic. You think it was, like, destined to be because of your dad's drinking problem? Like, you were always going to turn to alcohol. I think that was probably always in the cards. Do you think there would have been a way to prevent that? Like, say your mother knew he had a drinking problem. And looked at you and like, how do we prevent that from happening? So you can't.

You literally can't. I think the only way you could is if your child just never tried it. Like, never. Which is unrealistic. I've met a couple of people who were just like, yeah, I just decided that wasn't what I wanted to try. And I never did. I was like, wait, come again. You know what I mean?

So I think that's really the only way. Because it's like once you flip the switch, right, you can't flip it back. So I don't really think there is a way to prevent it. Yeah. There is a way to recognize if your kid's probably going to go that way. And I would say, like, does your child use something currently to take themselves out of their reality, right? So for me it was reading. It started out with reading.

And then like when I got to the dating age, we went from reading to like attention through, you know, whatever boyfriend I had at that time. And then once I tried alcohol, it didn't matter what boyfriend I had at the time. The only thing that mattered was drinking more. So what do you think about with your kids now then? Because you have kids and it runs in your bloodline technically from your dad to you. Are you worried about with your children now? I guess it would depend on what you mean by worried. I'm almost 100% convinced my daughter is definitely going to be one.

It's just a matter of like when and what. Because like with me and my brother, like my thing was alcohol, but my brother's thing was heroin. So I really hope it's alcohol. Like I really do. And do you have a plan to like combat that when it does happen? I think I've seen a lot of parents try and do the helicopter method. What's that? Basically try and control it.

Because when you have something like that, like the disease of addiction, alcoholism, whatever your preferred verbiage is, I think your immediate response as a parent is, how can I control this? How can I stop what's happening? because you can see that it's hurting them. You can see that they're literally throwing their lives away. But you really can't do anything because if I've seen it where parents will try and intervene, their kid will be like, all right, I'll go to rehab. But they're only going to rehab to, like, put a Band-Aid on a bullet hole. You know, they haven't reached, you didn't let them get to the point where they want to do it

because they can see it themselves. And I think you have to let them get to a point. where they can see it themselves. Like, I'm not saying, like, don't talk to your kids. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying show up for your children, but don't try and control it because you're just going to prolong the torture. Yeah.

So when does your alcohol or struggles with alcohol land you in some legal problems at what age? 22. 22. First time ever involved with the law. Yeah. What happens? I'm still with the same guy. So from 17 to 22.

Long run. Yeah. It was a long one. You know, whatever. So we ended up house hopping, right? Because you can only stay somewhere so long when you're engaging on what we were engaging in and the behaviors that come along with it before you're asked to politely leave. So we started living at my mom's house together, right? My mom got sick of it.

We moved to my grandmother's house. And we stayed there probably about a year before she got sick of it. And then we moved to his grandmother's house where she already knew what was kind of going on. And she was like, not here, not today, you know. And I just couldn't hang. I made it about a week or two there with nothing. And I ended up going to my friend's house. They were twins, so it was two friends.

And they were in Sealand's Grove at the time. And I don't know if you're familiar, but it's like Seasles Grove, Sunbury area. I mean, you're from here, right? Connecticut? No. You don't know. Okay. No. You're talking to a brick wall.

Cool, cool, cool, cool. If you're from Pennsylvania and you know the area, it's like around the middle of Pennsylvania. And so it's in Snyder County. I go out there. Snyder County is not the county I live in. And I proceed to drink with them. And their mom gets home. She immediately gets pissed. She asks me to leave. I storm out. I speed off. I get pulled over almost immediately. And I end up going to jail over a first UI, which is uncommon. And what happens is they like take me there. They process me or whatever. And they're like, you know, who do you want us to call? So I obviously tell them my mom and my mom's like, I'm not picking you up. I'm not picking you up. And I was like, are you kidding me? So they had to take me in. And so this is where the relationship ends because the boyfriend at the time, his father is a CEO at Snyder County Prison. So I go in there. His dad comes on third shift,

because that's a shift he worked. And looking back now, I don't understand, like, how I even, like, made it through the 72 hours with the way they were treating me specifically, right? So he pulls me out off the block. It's a dorm set up. And he pulls me into the visiting room. And he looks me dead at my face and he's like, Jamie, don't call him anymore. He doesn't want to talk to you. And don't you even think about telling anybody my eyes.

address in here. I was like, why would I tell people your address? Like, I am in the middle of my first like traumatizing moment. One, I can't pee on demand. So they had me in a holding cell out front, like, which every, you, everybody can see in. It's like right in front of like the main desk for them. And I'm on the other side. They're like, do you want us to put up a sheet? Will that help? And I was like, I don't know what's going to help. But like, it's not happening. And I have always been bladder shy, like, throughout like my whole experience from start to finish could never do it even when I had like a male parole officer and could go into the bathroom and shut the door just like the mental thought of knowing that someone was depending on me to do this I just couldn't do it in a reasonable amount of

time and so I eventually do it it took I believe three hours for me to get there but I do eventually do But, and they're like, so you're probably, it was a Friday evening. They're like, the judge isn't going to be in until Monday. And I was like, what do you mean? I have geometry on Monday. Like, I cannot be here on Monday waiting for the judge. They're like, well, sorry. But yeah, that was my first experience.

I did get out after 72 hours. I also vaguely remember, because you have to remember I'm in a blackout when the cop does pull me over, there is no need for a field sobriety test. It is very apparent, right? And I don't know why I did this, but I think, I don't know. But what I do know is that I tried to barter with the police officer. What did you barter? I think I offered to do something sexual with a police officer. Do you offer him a blowjob or something?

I think it might have been that, right? I don't have any shoes on. I'm like bartering this. You would think in that moment I would have been able to think to yourself. Now, Jamie, maybe you have a problem here. He, I mean, he obviously turned me down. And he was a really nice guy because he took me in without my shoes. And then when I got released, he drove me back to my car where my shoes.

where my shoes were. Did you get charged with like trying to bribe them or anything? No. No, no, no. Lucky you didn't get an asshole. I just think about like one of the common themes of my story is like getting myself into these very serious situations and not taking it seriously at all. Like and hindsight again, 2020, I like look back. I was like, how did I not get hurt?

Like, how did I not, like, really, really get hurt? Or killed someone else. Or that. You know, I think, you know, source, higher power, whatever you want to, that I didn't. Because it very well could have been me. But that's just not a part of the story. So that first arrest, it wasn't like, oh, let me wake up. You know, I got arrested.

This is serious. Spent 72 hours of the big house. Let me get my life on track. No, he didn't. It gets worse. Yeah, no, it definitely gets worse. So what happens next? Well, I think the codependency and the alcoholism really went hand in hand.

So when that boyfriend cut me off and wasn't speaking to me, like, I really just decided that I didn't care about anything. And so what would proceed to happen is I would continue drinking the way I was drinking with no regard for myself or others. And I would get four more DUIs and a trespassing charge in 45 days. Wait, so how come they didn't revoke the licenses because it was so close to each other? The system couldn't catch up? Yeah, so the cool part about this, right? And I don't think it's this way anymore. So don't be thinking you can go out and get five DUIs and 45 days and you'll be fine.

But I had never been charged with my first one before I got my last one. So they were all first defenses. If I had only gotten those five DUIs, I would have had to do six months in the county. Holy cow. Because I think in Connecticut on your second one, it's mandatory jail time or third one. Like now they have a lot of laws. It's mandatory. Yeah.

Well, in a perfect world where I would have gotten charged for my first one and then got my second one and then had the second one count as a second one. But that just wasn't what was happening. I think one was how I think one was half. I think in the 45 day period, you know what I mean? Yeah. When did they put the pieces together and it's like, we got to get this girl off the road? It's actually funny you say that because what did end up happening and in between there I like end up trying to find a distraction. I like go to his house one time.

Everything's fine. I go back and then all of a sudden in my brain we're together now. So you want me around all the time. So I keep going over there and he keeps telling like you can't come over here because I'm going over wasted. Like I'm out of my mind. I've lost it. I've gone off the deep end, you know. I'm no longer on planet earth.

So I keep going over there and he's like, Jamie, like, please stop coming over here. This is like on the third time I've done this. He's like, if you come over here again, I'm going to call the police. And in my mind, delusional, delulu me. I'm like, no, you won't. No, you won't. You want me to come over. Come on, no, you know.

I did it again. And sure enough, he did actually call the police. And that's how I got a trespassing charge. In the midst of all this, there was another incident that I honestly should have. I don't, I think with that particular incident, I don't think should have qualified. as a trespassing charge, but I ate it. But there was another situation that definitely should have qualified as a trespassing charge. Very similar situation, except for in this situation, I'm not sure if it's a federal crime.

I recently talked to this individual just the other week, just like, which was the first time I had spoken to him since the incident occurred. But what had happened, he was in the military. He had come back to Bloomsburg. for like a two week time period before he had to go back. And so I picked him up from the base. And we went to a show where I proceeded to get drunk. And he found out really quickly what he was dealing with. He says, we got to go.

I'm taking you home. And like, I'm leaving. And I was like, what? Where are you going? And he told me the house that he was going to wrong move. Immediately wrong move. So he does. He leaves.

And the next day I get up and I have this bright idea. oh, I should go see him. You know, I know where he's at. But I go there, right? And the door's locked. I was like, that's so strange. So I go out to his car, which is unlocked. And I sit in there and I decide, oh, his dog tags are in here.

I should take those. You can't do that. Don't ever take someone's dog tags. Not good. But I take those, right? And then I proceed to call locksmith and tell them that I locked myself out of my house. Right? So the locksmith shows up

It's actively trying to unlock this door to a home that is not mine Right And in the middle of him doing that The person who owns the house that he was staying at for the two weeks Opens up the door and is like what are you doing And he points at me and I'm like uh I just book it I'm like nope no no no no And then uh I ended up calling the guy and I was like

Hey I think we do need to see each other because I have your dog tax He was like you stole my dog He's like, do you know that's a federal crime? I was like, what? No. No, I didn't know that. You could have went to jail for dog tags. So I gave them back, you know, immediately gave them back because I was like, no, I don't want to smoke.

And so eventually, after the fifth UI, right, I get the fifth UI. I go down to a local bar. But the ID I have, I don't have my ID. I don't know why I don't have my ID, but I don't have my ID on me. So they won't serve me, right? But I'm not in a place to hear no. So I casually walk up to a table that has a drink on it and I just take that and go out the back door. Well, the bar calls the police.

They know me. It's a small town. My mom also, you know, goes to the bars. They know where my mom lives. The police show up at my house and they take me from there to Northumberland County Prison, which would be the prison where I'm. from like for my county that I live in. Yeah.

So I get there and I do the intake and I am out of my mind. And I'll never forget it. But, you know, how they ask you a series of questions. And there's a couple of questions in there that are pretty important. It's really important that you get these questions right. And I got them wrong. More of the questions. Well, as I told you at the beginning of the podcast, I would have been described as a very sarcastic person.

So when they asked me if I had any thoughts of harming myself or others, I said, you know what? I didn't, but I do now. But I wasn't serious, but that did not matter. So when you get done with the intake, they don't tell me what's happening and I don't know what's happening. but like I see the orange jump suits and I'm like, am I going to have to wear one of those? Officer Segorah looks at me in my face and says, oh no, honey, you get to wear something else. So they proceed to hand me the turtle suit, tell me to strip down naked, right, put this freaking thing on, and then put me in a cell to detox on a brick slab, no sheets, a camera in the corner.

I'm like, oh, no, you ain't catching me slipping again. You got put in a turtle suit. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. I feel like everybody probably has that experience, right? Did you ever get put in it? In the turtle suit, no. No. In the feds, I don't even think it.

It's just like a paper bag kind of like that they put on you. It's like very papery. Really? Yeah, but I've heard, I've had guests that I've gone to county jails and stuff where the turtle suit is like an actual, it's a whole thing. Did you ever have to wear the paper suit? No, I never. I was smart enough to realize.

you don't say you're suicidal. You don't say you ought to harm any one. I was a good. I saw very firsthand. I don't want to do any of that. And I saw what happened to the guys that because like once you do that once in prison, like it's on your mark and like you're on the watch list. Well, that was the first and only time I ever said that. And I would continue to go back to that prison a couple of times, jail, county jail, whatever.

I would, that time I stayed in there for, I would say three or four months before. they came to me with some paperwork and we're like, do you want to apply for DUI court? And I was like, what's that? So it's like someone's shining a light on me, right? They're like, we're going to give you this olive branch. Take it, damn it, you know? They gave you an opportunity.

It's 2020, man. There were so many situations where I can look back and be like, man, I got a few warning shots and I just wasn't reading the room, you know. So they tell me what DUI. why court is, I was like, oh, that sounds great. But the only part I heard is, as soon as you get accepted, you get out. I was like, as soon as I get accepted, I get out. Please, bring me the paperwork now. So they brought me the paperwork.

I signed on, right? I get out in February, right? I remember it was February because it started, it was flurring. My mom picks me up. I'll never fucking forget this. My mom picks me up. But she needs to stop at the gas station to get cigarettes. She goes into the gas station.

I look behind me and in the cup holder that's in the backseat. There is alcohol. And without a seconds notice. And this is how you know how serious a disease of addiction is. I swear on everything. No thought. There was no like maybe I shouldn't. It was just grab it and drink it.

And I did. I didn't get caught that time. But I get put on DUI court in February. And then I would say by the beginning of March, I've already violated. I have an ankle monitor on. It's not an alcohol monitor. But it is a GPS tracker. And in my county at that time, what they had was this breathalyzer machine that, like, would plug into the phone jack.

And it had like this little voice recognition thing where you would have to, like, say, three words, it would give you the okay, like, okay, it's you. You may now blow into this thing. But mine wouldn't, it never worked. Like, it didn't work appropriately. Like, I would say the words, but it would never give me the okay. And my PO knew this, but they were just taking their their dear time to fix it. I don't know. But anyway, knowing that just really propelled me to believe that I could get away with it, you know. So I end up drinking. And, um, um, I get a urine test and it takes them a week to get the results. But they do get the results.

And immediately, immediately back in handcuffs. Instantaneously. And the thing about DUI court is you're going to go to jail and then you don't get to go to court to figure out what's going to happen to you until the next DUI court hearing, which they did every two weeks. So when I went to the DUI court hearing, you're going to go to jail. they told me, you know, we're going to give you an opportunity to go to rehab. I was distraught. I cried more over that than I did actually going to jail and I have no idea why. When I made it back to the block, everybody was like, what happened?

And I told him, I was like, they're sending me to rehab. They were like, why are you crying? I was like, because I don't want to go to rehab. They were like, yes, you do. It's great there. I've never been before, you know? So I had my first experience with rehab. You're 22, still 23?

I'm still 22. Okay. I'm going to turn 23 in August. What a bad year, the year of 22 for you. 2012 was a terrible year. I've talked to many people who also had terrible years in 2012. Well, they were saying that was the end of the world, supposedly. It was the end of my world, I'll tell you that.

You were just prepared. You figured go out. But so mid-March, I come back to DUI Court. My brother's birthday is at the end of April, and he decides he's going to invite a couple of his friends over, but one of my friends is also there, and they are drinking. And I just haven't really found a solution yet. I've been introduced to what a solution looks like, but I'm not ready to take it. And so I drink again. And I get urine again. And I go back to jail again. And I think, oh, well, they'll probably just give me rehab. I see these drug court

people, they're getting six, seven, eight, nine chances. There's no way I'm going back. Like, there's no way they're not letting me go back to rehab, right? Immediately I'm wrong. Immediately wrong. I go to that next hearing and they tell me that I am being revocated, being resentenced on all my charges, and that I'm getting two to five years in state prison. However, another light. shines upon my dome from up above, you know. And they're like, but we're going to make you boot camp eligible. And I was like, boot camp. What about SIP?

Isn't that more appropriate? And they were like, well, you have difficulty following direction. I'll never forget it. That's a direct quote. So I was like, okay. Fuck it, sign me up. Boot camp eligible. Immediately boot camp.

I love that. Love that for me. Now, at the time, the head of the drug court probation team was a guy named Mike Barbitsky. I'll never forget him because he did not, I don't think he liked me. He didn't like my inability to follow direction because the DA pulled a lot of strings because of the way my case was and how quickly I got the DUIs. Like they really did like bend over backwards to get me DUI court for me to just like literally piss on it. And I can understand the frustration with that. However, I just wasn't ready, you know.

So I get my two to five. and that is end of April beginning of May, when I would say probably May. And I stay in the county until they call my number, which was, I think, the end of August. Now I'm 23. So between the time I got my charges and the time I was like going in and going in,

I maybe had 45 days of free. freedom. So one day in August, CO comes over the microphone and is like Anderson pack it up. And I know what time it is. But I'm not really prepared. Like I said, I'm from a small area. Diversity low. I have no experience with like anything outside of this small bumpkin town. I don't. And I go up with one other girl. That is how small my county is that a state run happens maybe. once every six months, once every four months, and it's literally max two women. So I go up with another girl. Muncie is only like 20 minutes from my hometown anyway. So it wasn't like a long ride there.

And that's a boot camp? No, that would be like, so for the men, it's Camp Hill is their classification, right? Muncie is the women's classification. Okay. Like a holdover center? Yes. Okay. So you get there. I get there because part of the boot camp program is,

is you have to get classified before you can go off to your final destination. Do they still have this boot camp program? I believe they do, yeah. I think they got rid of it in the feds. Like the feds had something. Did they? People were telling me. And then each state has kind of its own thing too.

But I think at some point the feds did have like a type of boot camp alternative. You could go to like a prison boot camp or something. I experienced so many different culture shocks for my little system that it was unreal. Truly it was unreal. So I get to Muncie with this other girl. We get through the initial like take your street clothes off because when you get transported, you get to put your street clothes on for a second, 20 minutes, you know. So I put my street clothes.

We're taking them back off. We're putting the new blues on because when you're in classification, your blues and then when you go into gen pop you're in the browns. So I'm in the blues. We're in a holding cell waiting for them to take us to the unit that classification is in because Muncie is also like one of two state prisons. So there's one building where you're classified in but then it's a whole like campus. Like it's got a little chapel in the middle of it and everything.

Like it literally, it would be cool looking from the outside if there wasn't. and fences with barbed wire all around it. You know what I mean? So while we're waiting to be transported to the intake unit, I hear chains. And it sounds like a bunch of chains. And I look at her and I'm like, what's going on? And then like one by one, women from RCF, a women's jail in Philly.

I believe it's just a women's jail in Philly. I know in Philly for sure, just not sure if it's solely women or if it's women in men. come into the cell. And they're going like, John this, John that, John this, John that. And I look at her, the girl that I came with, and she sees me looking at her. And I was like, what's it John?

She's like, I don't know. I can't make this up. I raise my hand. And I was like, excuse me. I was like, and my friend looks at me while I'm saying that she's like, I want you to be real careful how you word this. I'm going to be fine.

I was like, can one of you please tell me what a John is? and one of the larger women grabs my hand, pulls me up, and she's like, you want to be my John? And I was like, what the fuck is going on? I was like, no. And that's how I found out that John is really anything, including yourself, you know? That was the first term I learned at state prison. They take us back to the intake unit. I get housed with one of the women, not the women that pulled me up.

Thank, thanks source. You would have been to fresh meat. I guess I did forget to mention that while at the county, they did have me in work release. And the thing about work released is they can bring in stuff easily. So there was a person bringing in, like, loose tobacco. This is important to this story because remember how I told you earlier, I'm very bladder shy. Well, the seasoned vets in the county told me, like, I should probably go up with tobacco because women in the intake portion of Muncie can't smoke. you can't actually purchase or smoke tobacco until you're in Jen Pop.

So I use my commissary. I get some tobacco. I put it where the sun doesn't shine. That's a polite way of saying it. Yeah. Not the beehole, though. Not the beehole. Not that one.

Okay. Thank you for clarifying. We were very curious. I knew who you would be. So I take it up with me. And I'm thinking the whole way there, like how. the hell are we going to because I know me and I know how my bladder works and I was like how are we even going to do this but we make it work and the way that their intake urins are taken it's like in a

stall like I keep in that I'm so sorry it's like in a stall right you're in a stall but one of the walls is see-through plexiglass for the CO to watch you do whatever you're doing so IP I give it to them it takes me a while um as per ewee um I even get through the squat and cough with no issues. This is what is insane. That, a part of the boot camp thing, right? You cannot get any write-ups before you get there. If you get written up for any reason, you're done.

You're doing your whole sentence. It's over for you. So the fact that I was willing to like, again, engage in some dumb bitch behavior for what? for I still don't know. I still don't know. So I'm in this holding cell because when you get into the intake unit, you have to stay in there. I think for either 48 or 72 hours. You don't even get to come out to eat your tray gets like put in, right?

And I have the tobacco. I hide it in my locker. There's a little locker. I don't know why I put it there. before we got let out of our holding portion, they decided they were going to do a search, immediately shitting my pants. Immediately I'm like, I, you're such a dumb bitch.

But the CEO comes in, she like moves the clothes around in the locker, and nothing happens. Like, perfectly fine. So I get away with it, I guess. So while I'm in there, I'm housed with one of the girls from RCF. and this is about the time I find out about the term snow bunny. She goes to the door window, right? And she's looking out there and she's like, man, I need to find me a snow bunny.

I was like, a what? I was like, what's a snow bunny? She's like, a white girl. And I was like, all right, well, just so we're clear, like, it's not me. I'll help you find one, though. So we get out of there. And when we get to our, like, actual cells, I'm with a completely different girl. And this girl also is from an inner city jail.

I don't know if it was Philadelphia, but she was much larger than me. Kind of intimidating, not going to lie. And that's when I get my bout of depression. I don't have diagnosed depression, but that's the only way I can explain it. I didn't leave. You know how like you can come out for like chow or for yard, but the rest of the time. you're like locked in. There was no yard for your girl.

Your girl was not going out for yard. You just stayed in the cell. I slept. You know, some cellmates don't like when the person just stays in the cell all day, though. Yeah, she didn't. Yeah, so what does she do? She is mostly passive aggressive, right? But the one incident that I can remember, it was like some mean girl activity, right?

So she doesn't get any money. She's not getting commissary, but I am getting money, and I am getting money. getting commissarium because I'm like am a genuine human being who actually does at my core want to help people. I tell her like, you can, we can share it. It's like not a big deal or whatever. I also have the tobacco. She also knows I have the tobacco. She finds the batteries. For those of you who are unfamiliar with how you light a cigarette when you have tobacco, but you don't have a lighter, you use the batteries. You get a staple. She got the other necessary materials for the quest. And so she also got to smoke the tobacco.

obviously we had to give some of the tobacco away to get the batteries and the staple. It was just like, it was just one quest after another just to like do one thing. Like something that in the real world is so simple. Like without even a second thought, I can pick up a cigarette and light it fine. They didn't sell batteries on commissary. Yeah, but we had just gotten there.

Oh, okay. Yeah. No, we didn't have, I, my money hadn't even hit. It was like transferring from the county. I forget exactly how it works, but I know like whatever you have left, though, like, That takes a little bit. So no.

No commissary for me. And I wanted to smoke my cigarette right away. Instant gratification, you know. So yeah, that happened. But the passive aggressive incident that I'm talking about is one day, mid-classification stay. So we're about like 30 days in, mostly sleeping, not leaving the cell, barely showering, probably stink. Like, it's probably... it's probably bad.

But the one day that I do decide, okay, today's the day, we're going to get a shower. It's going to be great. We're going to have a good day. There's two shower sections in the intake wing, right? One's on the top tier, on the left, and one's on the bottom tier on the right. She went to the bottom tier and I went to the top tier. Well, shower must have opened up down there because they told me, hey, you come down here. You're going to go on this one.

And I was like, all right. So I get in there. And she's just talking shit. She doesn't know that I'm now down there because when she last saw me, I was upstairs. She's like, man, my fucking silly, it's a fucking dirty bitch. And I'm like, oh, my fucking God. Like, I was like, I share my commissary with you. How could you?

You know? But other than that, it wasn't like too crazy as far as like repercussions for my depression. How much time do you end up doing there? I think it was like close to 60 days. The boot camp band came in October. Okay. That was about 60 days in. Yeah, I would say 60 days.

And what kind of is it just a regular van that comes and picks you up? I would say, yeah. And they do the whole bit, you know, they cuff your hands to your waist. You got the shackles on. And Quahanna is a four-hour hike from where we're at. It's up near Erie. It's in Carthus, Pennsylvania. Okay.

And I'm going up with like five or six other women. And the only thing I can remember about the ride specifically is that Holy Grail came on the radio. The Jay-Z song? The Jay-Z song. And I had never heard it. I had never heard it before. So it must have just come out. And the COs didn't change the station.

And I can just remember seeing everybody like bobbing their hands. And I'm like, who is this? Like, what's happening? You know? But that just like was ingrained in my mind to the point where I'm like, like I make it a point to like when I make a new playlist like holy grail is always on it. Yeah. Just to like, I guess keep me humble or whatever.

It didn't bring back the memories. Yeah. So like, don't forget. You get to the boot camp. What's that like? Is there a fence around it? Is it what would describe it to us? Have you already looked it up?

No. Really? That's why I'm asking you. No. It's the weirdest thing in the world. There's no fence. No fence. No nothing.

It looks like a school from the outside. side. Okay. Um, on the inside, whole other ballgame. All right. So tell us what's a, what's boot camp like, boot camp like? Um, have you ever seen the movie full metal jacket? No. It's a classic. Are you for real? I'm just finished Sopranos and that's a classic. So, you know, I'm working way through the classics right now. Well, you have to watch it because if I could like compare it to like any movie, it would be that one. Um, but all of the, um, but all of the, you know, I'm working. Um, you know, I'm working. The, COs there are ex-military. Okay. So they're like yelling at you, the bald heads, the state trooper hats, just

barking orders, probably spitting in your face. Yeah. As soon as you get off the van, immediately being screamed at, it's like they were waiting all day for you to get there. Like, this was, you could tell it was getting them off. Is it just girls or it's guys and girls? Actually, it's the only co-ed state facility in Pennsylvania. They house the boot camp and the SIP program there, or at least they did when I was there.

It was boot camp and SIP. The SIP was housed in like these cabins outside of the main building. building, but the boot camp was in the main building and each unit was called like the barracks. Okay. Right. So we were in the women's unit, but each platoon was something different. I forget which one we were, but I remember it was like, and maybe it'll come back to me, but like because there's less women's prisons. therefore less women are going to boot camp than there are men.

So there's only one unit for the women and then the, I think, six other units are all men. And you start in what they call pre-boot and there's, I think, three other phases. So after pre-boot, which I believe is like two weeks, you go to the green phase and then the red phase and then the gold phase is last phase. it's a six-month program and you get automatically paroled if you complain it. Like you don't have to see the parole board. The thing is that there are sentencing guidelines to even be able to go there. So I think if your sentence exceeds like a three to six, you aren't eligible. And they didn't take people that have like violent crimes.

I don't believe. So we get there. We're in pre-boot. And during pre-boot, the only thing you are doing is now you're, you are standing the whole day at your rack facing down towards the bathroom and they had this little manual

that everybody got right and inside this manual is everything that you're supposed to memorize while you're there because you will randomly get asked questions that are in this manual and if you don't know the answer you are then going to experience

some variation some creative variation of PT used to embarrass you in front of your peers So there was Like I said There was seven or eight of us Originally going up By the time we got through the program

There was only four of us So everybody else got sent back To do their full sentence Full sentence And you made it through So physical activity was Pushups, sit-ups running Is that what it is just every day?

It would alternate So like a typical day, right, we'll say it's a running day because it's running day, Pt day, running day, Pt day. On Sundays, I don't think we had anything because that was a white glove inspection, which we'll get there, but if it was a running day, right, you're getting up at like five o'clock in the morning. You are then going one unit or one group of you at a time, whoever's in your platoon, right? So my platoon was me and those six other people.

And the bus trip up that came up before me, that was, you know, the now green phase and so on and so forth. So you would go out, you would stand in front of your bed. And then when they like dismissed you to the bathroom, one section at a time, you would go brush your teeth. That's all you're doing in the bathroom. You're brushing your teeth. You're coming back out. You're standing by your rack. You have your PT gear on, which is sweats.

Once everybody's done brushing their teeth, you're. you then all step out in unison together. And there's a certain way you got to do it. It's like step forward, pivot to your left, and then you march in sync together to what they referred to as the grinder. But it was actually just a gym. And then you would go there and you would proceed to run around the gym with everybody. Women, men, you're all in a line.

And the people at the front are the dudes that are now in gold phase. and one of the dudes is the flag bearer. So you are running in a circle and the person at the front is holding a giant ass flag. I don't know why, but that's what you're doing. When you're done running, you go back to your unit and then one section at a time, you're going in the shower. You're showering for the day. And then when you're done with that, you go to the chow hall. And after you go the chow hall, then you're going to your work assignment.

And shocker, the women's unit worked in the kitchen. There were only two women who didn't have to work in the kitchen, and they got to do the commissary handouts. Oh, so you guys got commissary there, too? Not regular commissary. We were only allowed to order hygiene products. So there was no snacks? Nothing. Any TVs, radios, no TVs even, like, in the area at all?

There was one on unit, but it had the weather station on it. That was it. And then sometimes the gold phase would get to watch a movie. Do you guys get books? There was a library. So, yes, you could get a book. Communication with the outside world. Phones?

As you progressed in the level that you were on, you got to get more privileges. So things where in a normal state prison where you're doing your whole bid, you can use the phone. I'm sure, well, I don't really know, but I'm sure you can use it more than once a day. I'm going to go ahead and assume. And you probably get a visit once a week. Right? Yeah. More than once a week, maybe twice, depending.

Yeah, up there, when you're in pre-boot, no visits, no phone calls, you can write letters. When you make it to the red phase, right? So we're talking about your first three months there. You get one visit and one phone call. And once you make it to the green phase, you then get one phone call every other week. And when you get to the gold phase, you can make one phone call a week. You know, it's interesting. Five years in prison or six months of boot camp.

Yeah. I don't know. What would you choose now if that offer was in front of you? I would 100% and do it all again. Do the boot camp. Oh my gosh. Yes, I would. Did it suck?

Absolutely. Was it embarrassing? Also, yes. But you would have gotten out out of the five, if you got the five-year sentence, how much would you have actually served on that in Pennsylvania? Probably only a couple of years, right? Yeah, probably. I mean, here's the piece, though, like, you would then be relying on the parole board to say you're ready the first time you go up for parole, right?

And there's this little, there is a group of people mad, mothers against drunk driving, that's like pretty big. And I'm not sure how the parole board would feel about the way in which I just had no regard for anybody else. Those are all mothers that have lost a son or a daughter. I think a loss of child to a drunk driving incident, yeah. So I would do the boot camp because you don't have to rely on the parole board, immediately paroled, and in six months you're done. Do you think boot camp changed you for the better as a person? It was just kind of because they're so militaristic in there. Like everything has an exact way you're supposed to do it.

if you want to go to the bathroom, you got to ask a certain way to be able to do that. If you want to go ask a question to anyone, there's a certain way you got to do that. And you can get denied. They can even think your question's fucking stupid and make an example out of you. One time, there's a way, there's a certain way you got to eat in the chow hall. You get seven minutes to eat your food, right? And every tray comes with a peanut butter and jelly. Like you can opt in to also have an additional peanut butter and jelly with your tray.

don't know if it's like that everywhere. Someone told me that like it doesn't matter what prison you're in, like everybody's getting the same food on the same day, which I had no idea. I didn't even think to ask. I just assumed like it was whatever day it was it was. I didn't think everybody was eating what I was eating, you know? But you had seven minutes to eat it, right? And you had to have your non-dominant hand on your lap the whole time you're eating.

And don't you even think about using it to grab anything? Why? What's the purpose of this? I think and okay so I grab my tray right I'm going to the table I get permission from the CEO to sit down so we all sit down together but you can all sit down until everybody gets it right it's very much a therapeutic community okay so what I mean by everybody has to get it right is everybody needs to set their tray down everybody needs to have their you know their spoon on the left their fork on the right your cup needs to be up in the upper left hand corner. And once everybody has their setup, set up the exact right way, then you get permission to sit down and then you have to wait to get permission to start eating. Holy cow.

What was the food situation? What kind of food did they serve? I feel like it wasn't that bad, honestly. I remember hot dog day. You get two hot dogs. You get macaroni, salad, and big beans. And then if you wanted a peanut butter and jelly, you could also have that. So seven minutes isn't that long, you know, so you really have to, and you have to finish.

That's not, if you opt. You can't leave leftovers. No, if you opt for that PB&J, your ass better, you better fucking hoof it down. What happens if you don't eat it? One specific incident I remember happening was somebody took their non-dominate hand off of their lap while they were eating to, like, grab their cup or something. We're in the trial hall. There's men. There's women.

and the S-D-SIP program is also eating at the same time we are, not the same rules, right? A CEO came up, started screaming at this lady for doing what she did, told her to stand up, said, pick up your cup. She picks up her cup. He's like, all right, I want you to walk around this chow hall, and I want you to say this over and over again until I tell you to stop. He's like, you got it? She's like, yes, sir. This is my cup. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

And she probably did, I think, like five laps around that chow hall before she was able to sit back down and finish her meal alone. Because everybody had already left by then. They say the point of the boot camp is to tear you down and then build you up. I'm not exactly sure when the buildup part happens. I can't tell you when that happens. But I do know that I witnessed a lot of people, they try and break you in there. They really do. Like I think like that's the purpose of it to see if you'll respond to them in an aggressive way.

Because if you do, then clearly you're not ready to go out into the outside world. Yeah, I wonder if anyone looking at like your yearbook picture back then in high school was like, yeah, this girl's going to go off to boot kit. Like it's just such a random thing. Like I can imagine like my friends looking at the yearbook. Like you never expect like this person to go to federal prison. Like that just that scenario It's just wild to see where people go I know

It was absolutely crazy I think the craziest part is just like how Very specific it was Like if I wanted to go to the bathroom I had to stand out from my rack And I had to say Sir, Miss Anderson request permission To speak to Officer Parks, sir

And then I had to wait for him to tell me To go ahead and speak This is crazy And when he said I could do it. I'd have to be like, sir, Ms. Anderson requests permission to utilize the head, sir. And you had to ask it like that. If you did not ask it, like, your ass wasn't going to the bathroom. So it was very, it very much felt like if you weren't good at submitting, you're not going to, you're not going to make it. Because you basically just got to chalk it up and do exactly what you're supposed to do.

And it's, it's probably one of the most degrading things I've ever experienced. I mean, not to the point where like you had to like strip naked and like stand. in front of people or anything like that because I've heard of people having it. Well, that's pretty common in prison. It didn't happen there. So at least that was one step better. Yeah. And I think it didn't happen there because, like, it's a dorm set up.

There was never too much. I don't remember there ever being any strip searches. There had white glove inspection on Sundays, and every morning when you made your bed, you had to have, like, hospital corners. Like, your bed had to be made perfect. So if they came over to your bed and maybe it wasn't look in its bed, Maybe those hospital corners weren't at a perfect 45 degree angle. They brought the ruler.

These mother truckers would literally flip your fucking shit into the air, dump out all your, and everything has its specific place. So if they're doing that, you literally have to put everything back exactly the way they want it. Or they're going to do it again. And it's just enough to like touch like a nerve, I think, where some people literally like lost their minds. Do any of your friends ask you about this or do they even know, like, friends, family that you went through all this? Um, I just give them like the blanket statement of the full metal jacket reference. And if they know, they know.

And I don't really like go into like too much detail about what it was like in there just because it's embarrassing. Do you know what I mean? Do you see where you're sitting now? You're literally telling hundreds of thousands of people about your. Yeah, but I don't see their eyes. You know what I mean? If I'm telling like someone who's like really close to me like because my personality outside of here is. For the moments that matter, choose Kyrad Naturals.

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I give it to you straight. If I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to fucking do it. I like live on integrity and like transparency only. I see why the last relationship ended. Yeah. No transparency. Guys don't respond well to. of that.

It's just, I mean, well, maybe, and maybe, whatever, maybe I'm supposed to be alone for the rest of my life. Oh, no, no, don't take it like that. I'm just not going to, you'll find that person. Just not going to bend the knee for anyone, you know what I mean? Like, you got me fucked up. Yeah, fuck them. Wow. I, it's just crazy.

Oh, it was crazy. Sometimes if they were like feeling really wild and nuts, like, they would like pull you. out because it's a therapeutic community. That's very important if you're familiar with what a TC is. If you're not familiar with what a TC is, basically, if one of you messes up, you all pay. So there was one girl in our platoon who had very clearly been addicted to PCP. And I swear on everything I love, that girl took a hit and never came back. because the whole point of that first two weeks is to stand there and be fucking silent.

Don't say any words, none. She would be fine for a little bit, but then every once in a while, she'd freaking switch and think she was like Nikki Minaj. And I mean like wrapping Nikki Minaj with the mannerisms and everything. And we are supposed to be standing still and silence. So here comes the military CEO. coming up the squad bay, telling us all get your asses out. Get the pictures of your family out.

Put them on the floor. And then proceed to make everyone do push-ups over the pictures of their family while they were like in their face screaming about what a scumbag you must be for choosing to do whatever you did and be there in front of them right now. People were in tears all the time. You ever cry? Once or twice probably, yeah. The mighty have fallen.

I know. So did you get into any more trouble after that? that. But not the drinking, not the DUIs. No more DUIs. Because they probably would have put you in prison for a long time. Yeah, they would have. It was two to five years. It was two to five. I might have been closer to five if they had made me done it. I don't know. How long were you on probation for after that or parole? I didn't walk off my parole until I feel like it was 2018. So a few years ago?

Yeah. So when you were getting out, I was walking off. Oh, thanks. You're rubbing it in. So are these DUIs felonies or are they misdemeanors? No, they're all misdemeanors. So this hasn't really affected your life in any way? Like from a job standpoint or? Well, the trespassing was a felony. But that's gone or that's on your record?

Oh, that's there. Oh, that's there? Oh, that's there. Okay. That's not even that big of a deal. I don't think it was either. It kind of did, I guess. My first job coming out was for a publications company working as,

a telemarketer, cold calling, right? And that's where everybody, let me back up. When you graduate the boot camp, back then, I don't think you have to do it now, but back then you had to complete 30 days at a CCC Center. So I went to TLC in Williamsport, Transitional Living Center in Williamsport. And every girl in that house seemed to have a job at this center. So that's where I applied to. So that's where I started working. However, this is where I started working. However, this is where I start getting into trouble post prison because while I was in that state prison boot camp I don't know if you picked up on the theme of my life

but I will find a distraction wherever I can and I'll do it with a smile on my face. So while I'm at my boot camp I find myself a distraction. He's got a cool little face tattoo. It says karma. I'm like I'm digging it, you know. Keep in mind, I, if I get caught fraternizing with a male, I'm going back.

I'm doing my whole sentence. For what? But anything to get me outside of myself, I'm going to do it. So that's exactly what I did. And the way we did it, I don't know, I don't even know, because I'm sure they still do it in there. But I'll say we pass kites in a specific way up there. And that's.

What to meet up at a certain time? No, we never got to meet up. It was just like past, just the kites. He got out before I did. He was in the graduating platoon before me. And then he married him. It's a love story. Absolutely not.

That's not at all what happened, actually. It's a teenage love story. So he gets out. I get his phone number approved on my call list. So by the time I get in gold phase, I can call him once a week. I'm calling him once a week. He tells me I basically, in code tells me he has gone on the run to New Mexico. It's like, why would you do that?

Casually tells you he's out of the run to New Mexico. He's like, yeah, I'm like. was like, are you okay? He was like, he doesn't tell me then I don't find out until after I get to the CCC Center that he's actively using heroin out there, living his best life. I was like, well, when I get out of the CCC Center, I'm going to move into my mom's, I'll pay for your bus ticket, you can come live with me in my mom's house. He is on the run from Pearl.

It's a fugitive. I pay for his bus ticket. and I move them into my mother's basement. Oh, your poor mother has gone through all the shit with you. All the bed. So, obviously, this is when I get introduced to heroin around this time. And what's interesting about this is that I tried on two separate occasions in my life for like a two-week period. to, I tried my best to become a heroin addict.

But the way my body responds to opioids, it just wasn't for me. Well, this is a first. Yeah. It's like I couldn't do opioids without violently throwing up for hours. And I remembered in rehab, I had heard the other heroin addicts in there say, you know, you know, yeah, you get sick the first couple times, but eventually it goes away and then you can just ride the wave. That never happened for me. I tried for two weeks.

It was always the same. I couldn't hold my alcohol down. if I'm puking violently from the heroin. Now, the dude that I moved into my mother's basement is shooting me up. And the first time he shoots me up, I fall out to the point where, like, there's concern for my ability to wake back up. When I do eventually wake back up after he, like, puts me in the shower and sprays cold water on me, I can't fucking hear. Like, it sounds like I'm listening to him talk to me underwater. And in my head, I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

am I ever going to hear normal again? You know, what does this mean? And I don't know if it means like I was like close to death or what. My hearing did come back. So I would say he lived with my mom and I for about a month. I remember we went up to Williamsport and he cracked a soda machine with my lookout skills. for those of you who don't know what that means he took a screwdriver

he broke open a soda machine and he stole the money out of this soda machine which ended up being like close to a little over $100 actually $100. Yeah. We take that and we go get heroin right and then we take the heroin

which ends up being like I think it was like 12 bags maybe 10 10 bags it was 10 bags we take it he does what he's going to do I do what I'm going to do which isn't as much as he's doing because we've already had this conversation, we go back to my mom's house.

It's like around midnight. The bags that we have left, I put in the change purse in my wallet. It has a zipper. I zip it. I close it. I put it from my purse. I would say after we get home

about 30 minutes later, I hear like some commotion going on, and I'm like, what the fuck is happening? And all of a sudden, eight POs are in my basement. I'm half naked. He's completely naked. I was like, this is not a good look.

This is not going well. I'm like, I'm a month out of the CCC Center. And there are eight POs in my basement. And I'm like, what the hell? Remember Mike Barbitsky from DUI court? Yeah. Well, guess who's now the supervisor of the state parole sub office? I'm not going to.

He is. I was like, are you fucking fallen? Yeah. So I get to have a little meeting with him after that. Now they take the boyfriend back. I believe he goes to Cole Township because it was the closest one to where we were. And I continue to write him. because I think, you know,

He's a love of your life. Yeah. We're going to make it, baby. When they store my basement, they start searching my things, right? And I think, dear sweet Jesus, I'm going back. I'm going back. I'm going back. The one PO, he picks up my purse.

I was like, here it goes. He gets out my wallet. I was like, motherfucker. He opens it up, right? He looks at the money flap, whatever. And he closes it and he puts it back. He doesn't open up the change. He does not zip open the change purse.

I was like, it was like another light. Do you know what I mean? You got a lot of chances. It keeps happening. So they send him back. They tell me Anderson, you need to report tomorrow morning to the Statesup office. And that's when I find out that Mike Berwitzky is now the head honcho over there because I'm sitting across the table from him. And he was like, so the boot camp didn't really help did it.

And I was like, no, but I completed. Thanks for asking. He was like, you're going to go to rehab. So I went to rehab. While I'm at that rehab, I come up with this bright idea. I like to think it was my own idea. My mother said that the version of the story that she remembers is that she told me I couldn't come home. Whatever.

The boyfriend's in Cold Township, but I know that when he gets done with his hit time, he's going to go back to his original county that he was sentenced in, which is York County. So while I'm in rehab, I decide I'm going to go to Recovery House in York. That's what I'm going to do. And so that's what I do. And I continue to write him for a little bit until I find a new distraction. And that was the father of your kids, I'm guessing? No. Oh.

There's still a long way to go before that happens. Yeah, actually. Wait, so did the rehab work? Did you get clean? Not that time. How many times did it take? There was one more rehab I went to after that one. So all in all, you've done what?

Like maybe six months in a county jail, six months in a boot camp, been three months in rehabs? No, I would say it was, but the county jail, I probably did a grand total, probably did about nine months total because I got those five DUIs in three different counties. I forgot to mention that. So even when I get on DUI court,

I have that ankle monitor on, but the DUI goes through, so they send me back to jail. They're trying to cut this ankle monitor off me when I get there. I'm like, please do not cut this off me. Like, please just talk to my PO. Like, you know what the, fuck that is. That is not a bomb. That's a fucking GPS device.

So that was a whole thing. But neither here nor there. So between all the counties, it was about nine months. And then I did the classification for about three. And then six months at the boot camp, one month at the C.C. Center. And then between the rehabs I'd gone to at that point, two months. When did your life get normal? I mean, it's still, I don't think it's normal now. Well, you have a career now, right? I mean, yeah, but when I think of, like, a normal life, I think of, like, someone who's, like, married and the person they're married to. That's not necessarily normal. I guess societal normal? When did you go from a bad girl felon to, you know, living a quiet, becoming a mother, not getting a gazillion DUIs?

Well, I hit York in 2014. Okay. and I managed to be introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous where I get my first sponsor and I actually start doing the work. However, I also find a new distraction, which kind of impedes my ability to remain, you know, honest, open-minded and, like, willing to help others. Which, if you've ever experienced codependency, it's like your whole self is directly dependent upon the person that you're with, right? So he ends up relapsing around the time we both have eight months. And so I naturally think that I'm going to go to this Roach Motel in the room 302, which I found ironic at the time that it was room 302. I don't know how your site committals work here.

But in Pennsylvania, when you're like involuntarily committed, it's a 302. So he was in room 302 So I had every intention of going there To like try and convince him to go to rehab Because I'm still sober at the time And the moment I crossed the threshold To that hotel room, I'm drinking I end up getting to go to my first Ritzie hotel

Because a friend got me into treatment this time And not my PO I never told my PO I relapsed He still he didn't know But when I walked off he still didn't know Like as far as he was concerned Nothing bad ever happened So my friend gets me into treatment

I'm still on my mother's insurance. She has a government job, so it's a decent insurance. So I get to go to my first fancy rehab. And I fucking hate it there. It's not for me. They have equine therapy. They have a ropes course in the woods. And I'm just like, absolutely the fuck not.

Could never be me. So I tell them when I get there, I was like, I'm leaving on this day. They were like, well, it's a 31 day program. I was like, what do you mean it's 31 days? haven't you ever seen the movie 28 days it's 28 days it's not 31 I was like I'm leaving on this day and they're like okay sure enough the day came and I was like I'm leaving and they were like what you mean it's 31 days I was like I told you all from the beginning I'm leaving on this day so I left aMA my best friend anne comes and picks me up with the house present of the recovery house

I was then living at they take me back to the recovery house and I stay sober that was May 15 2015 That was it. You stayed sober since then. Yeah. Wow. Isn't it crazy how much shit you had to go through, though? And then it just finally just hit you that you were going to stay sober? So the point of that, right, is to prove that, like, when you have a child, right, you can't intervene because my POs tried to intervene. My mother tried to intervene.

But this one time I called my friend. I said, hey, can you please help me? And they came and they helped me. And that was that. It's about this time I meet because I don't end up staying at their recovery house because the House president develops a vendetta against me. So I then have to leave. I have to pack it up and go.

So it's at this time I get introduced to a fellow named Bob Allen who owns a what he refers to as a life skills house in York, Pennsylvania called LifeSpeacon. It's a nonprofit 501c3. He mostly houses men coming out of state prison or county jail. But at the time, he had two females. So me calling him was a long shot. But I called him and I said, you know, I'm kind of getting kicked out of where I'm living right now. I didn't relapse. I just like, I'm on state parole.

Like, this is not good. It's not a good look. So he was like, come here tomorrow. We'll talk. We'll see what's going on. We end up talking for four hours. he takes me around picking up all the guys from work and basically the message that he communicates to me

is that he doesn't really give a shit about the money. He wants to know if you're about what you say you're about. And so he really ingrained to me like to do that. And so I've stayed doing that. And he is still a part of my life till this day. And the interesting fact about Bob Allen is he had done, I believe, eight or nine years. during, I would say

1993 because I know he was still in there during the Camp Hill riots for ending the life of his ex-wife in the midst of an argument. Wow. And while he's at Camp Hill, he comes from a family that has money

so he already has this compound. So he's providing inmates home plans. from inside the state prison. And when he gets out, then he really starts, like, taking it on full time. So he shot and killed his ex-wife, I believe, on August 29th.

I know for a fact it was August 29th. I just don't know the year I want to say it was 1993, but don't quote me. Maybe it was 1989. And he changed my life. And I really mean that. because I end up getting pregnant while I'm living at his house. And in a normal recovery house situation, like you're not bringing, once you have that baby,

you are no longer living at the recovery house. You better hope that you better hope to whoever you pray to that you have enough money to foot the bill for your own apartment. But what he ended up doing is he bought a house that was right across the street with the help of the cash investor. So the house was a one unit. He said, Jamie, I'm going to turn it into a two unit. And you, the baby, and my daughter's father, you guys can live on the first floor. And so my daughter is born on August 29th of 2016. She's two weeks late.

And it wasn't until after I gave birth to her that someone had brought to my attention that it falls on the same date that he committed his crime. and it was a real like full circle moment for me like where I truly believed that there's something or someone out there like orchestrating this because there's 365 days in a year my guy like what are the chances of that happening do you know what I mean so Piper is born she's brought into this world through the portal that is my hoo-ha and we take her home and I would say she's about three months old when Bob calls me and he says hey I need to talk to you so I go over and I was like hey what's like going on he was like I don't think he is in the midst of going through a divorce at this time or a breakup of some variety and he's he's like I don't think I can take on the women's house right now he's like well you take on the lease I was like take on of course I'll take on the lease so I meet the cash investor they have faith in me that I can handle this and so I take on the lease and I don't really

understand the process at this time, but I would later find out that, like, that what I'm doing with this house is exactly what I'm currently doing. So I end up not having to work the first 18 months of my daughter's life. I can go to school. I can do all that because I'm running out the rooms upstairs to people who are trying to, like, save up money for their own apartments. And I'm taking them directly from Bob's house. So they're all, they all have criminal records, the people that I'm taking. And I'm taking the people that have done well over there into this home. And then from there they move on. But I don't really know that what I'm doing is what I'm doing. I'm just doing it because it makes sense in the moment. Fast forward to, are we fast forwarding or fast forward to

present now? Fast forward to present now. All right. What are you doing now? Well, I end up completing my associate's degree, getting my bachelor's degree, and then getting my master's degree in social work, and I basically decide that I'm making it my life's purpose to help others. I experienced some pretty significant events around between April and August of 2023, where, and if I get emotional, I'm really sorry. Okay. But I get a call for my mom. At Hyundai of Glendale, Lisa New,

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Who available at this payment? PH 715229, PH71465. Oh, you're good. And she's like something's wrong. Like, I can't use my hand. My signature's like really small. I don't know what's happening. I was like, well, will you go to the emergency room?

She's like, no, I have an appointment with my PCP tomorrow. I'm just going to do that. So she goes to the appointment with the PCP. And they order a cat scan. The PCP is going on vacation. So she doesn't hear back from her PCP in what I would consider a timely manner. The PCP comes back. She calls my mom right away.

She's like, see, you need to get to the hospital like right now. Mom calls me, she's in hysterics. I don't know it at the time, but my brother was in the York house that Bob gave me. And I caught fire. I had an insurance claim. It's going to be fine. It's being rebuilt now. It'll be done soon.

The house caught fire? All in the same, like, time period. It was just, like, one thing after another, the house catches fire. I find out some pretty traumatic stuff about my son's father. And then my mom gets this news. So I don't know it at the time, but my brother didn't handle the fire very well, and he is in the midst of a relapse, but I don't know. And so I say, Austin, you need to get up. Like, we got to go see mom.

So we take the two-hour drive back to Milton, Pennsylvania, and well, Lewisburg, because that's where the hospital is. And they're like, we don't know exactly what's going on, but based on the scans, it looks like your mom's got, like, a couple of brain tumors in her frontal loom. So we're going to transfer to Hershey Met. Not her she met, I'm sorry, Geising or Medical Center, which is in Danville. So we follow her to Danville, and they tell us that they're going to do a biopsy on May 5th, which will give them more of an idea of what great tumor it is. So in the midst of all of this, like, I've already made up my mind that my mom's going to have to move up and move next door into the house that I'm connected to because we own,

my son's father owns both of them. And so I orchestrate it all. It's just like immediately just like, we're not going to process what's happening. We're just going to like go into action mode and like get it done. So I schedule the movers. She gets her biopsy. She has, you know,

the weekend to basically and she's like her mobility is affected because where the tumor is like, she's not really able to walk really well. and so it's she has the biopsy and they tell us it's like a

grade three astrocytoma there's four grades right so they're grade three they make it seem hopeful so I'm like okay we'll just move her to Lancaster I'll set her up with a cancer center out there and like we'll just take care of it it's gonna be fine well

we get her out to the cancer center they steer they do another MRI of her brain and they tell us that it looks like guys's hangar didn't get it right because the way that it's growing it looks more like it's a grade four so they make this plastic thing for her face so that way they know like where they're hitting the radiation is the same every time and after that appointment I go to see a in Philadelphia, I tell Austin, can you like stay with her? I'm going to a concert. He says, well, he's going to a meeting that same night, but it's only an hour, so I can understand why

I'd be like, she's fine, like she can move around. She's just very slow with where she's going. So I'm at this Noah Khan concert in Philadelphia at the Man Center, and I get a call for my brother. I can't hear him So I try and call him back And he's like mom's having a seizure I call the ambulance And she has to stay in the hospital for three weeks Which pushes the radiation back

Because they can't do the radiation If she's having these focal seizures It's just her like leg Like it's just constantly moving And that is not flying with radiation Like you can't be moving When they're doing that Because they push this back

She is in a hospital bed for three weeks, so by the time they discharge her, she's now lost all mobility. She can't walk at all now. So I have to call in hospice. And everything just progressed so quickly that we got the biopsy in May, right? And my mom died August 23rd. Oh, wow. But my brother and I both got a decent sum of money a summer. of money I'll probably never see again in my lifetime.

And I just made a conscious decision that I was going to use it to help other people. So me and my brother get a decent sum of money because my mom's had a 401k that she's been saving up for for 25 years. And she's also got a significant life insurance policy. So I get half. My brother gets half. And I come up with the idea for reformed properties. And so I buy two more buildings with cash investors because at the end of the day, like your liquid assets are more important.

So you're not going to want to sink every ounce of liquid capital you have into an idea. Tip, tip one. How do you find a cash investor? It just happened where like because of my son's father, I'd already met one. And he knew another guy who like invested in the other property. So the one's a two unit. The other one's like a single family. I filed for the LLC, but nothing's under the LLC yet.

Because if you're unfamiliar with the way this works, if you find a cash investor, they're going to buy the property for you outright, and then you will normally, for the term of one year, pay them interest-only payments that I'm paying it at 11%. And then you go to the bank, you prove to them like the rental income that you're making and you get a bank loan, and it's usually going to be a lower down payment because it's considered like refinancing. Once you get a bank loan for the property, you can then go back to the cash investor and tell me you want to get another one and do the same thing. all over again. So my plan right now is to I'm getting, I'm applying for the bank loan at the end of April and then hopefully by June, I'll have another property picked out that will be more of a transitional house for people who don't have home plans because I came up with the idea and then quickly realize that while there is a need to have more inclusive housing options for people that don't

wish like don't intentionally hold people back just because they like made a mistake right because people can change i'm a huge believer that like everybody is capable of turning that shit around obviously everybody has a line in the sand so there are some people with certain charges that i wouldn't fucking probably not you know not here i'm because i just can't uh like morally But with the next house, I want to be able to just take people coming straight out and put them in this house and help them find jobs. If they don't have a social security card, help them figure out how to get that. If they want to get their license back, how to get that. And then once they, like, get stabilized in the transitional house, once an apartment and the other units becomes available,

if it's in one bedroom, they can go over. If it's a two bedroom, two of them can go over, and then we'll just take two more. That's awesome. you really did find your life's purpose throughout all the insanity that you endured and then the trauma after that. Yeah, it's been a wild ride. You've come a long way. Yeah, so have you.

Thank you. You flipping it back on me. You have to. Okay. Well, it's good to mirror back. Like, I feel like, and I don't know if you've ever, like, experienced this, but, like, when you come out and, like, at least for me, I just felt like everybody knew. Like, everybody just, like, was automatically, like,

chalking me up to, like, a failure. Like, you're never going to... My first job coming out after, like, once I hit York was Hardee's. And after that, it was Dunkin' Donuts. And it really did seem like it was never going to get any better than that. And I know that it can't possibly be the only one that feels that way coming out. I think everyone feels like that. And it just feels so debilessing.

But once you can like get past that and start like looking at shit from like a solution focus like, okay, yeah, this is my situation. But how do we make it better? For me, it was like paying attention to the people I was meeting because ultimately those people ended up changing my life. So it's just you got to find your people. Like we're out here and we're trying to help you. You just got to find us first, you know? I love that. Well, Jamie, thank you so much for coming today and sharing your incredible. story. And crying. You're welcome. You don't ever have to apologize for crying. You know, that it's good. It's good to feel emotion. It's not good for the image, though. There's no image here. This is just a safe, you know, comfortable place where someone can share their story. Yeah. And I'm glad you got to do that today. And I thank you for coming. And the audience thanks you for coming. And, you know, your story's different and that's good because everyone has a different story. And it's good that you shared it.

Oh, well, thank you. Also, I do have a TikTok that I'm trying to grow so we can, you know. Yeah, I'll put it in the description too. Change some stigma out there. So if you want to help spread the message, you can go over. I got you. Well, put the name of the TikTok and I'll put it in the bio, too. I believe it's Reformed underscore Jamie.

You don't even know what the TikTok is and you gave to do a podcast. I just changed the name. I just changed the name. I'm pretty sure it's Reformed underscore Jamie. I'll get the link from you, too, before the episode comes out. so I could put it in and whatever else you want me to put in the bio. Sing my praises or whatever. Sing your praises?

Now you're pushing it. I just listen to your whole story and now I've got to sing the phrases. You're a tough cookie.