Locked In with Ian Bick - The Genius Method I Used to Smuggle Hundreds of Pounds of Pot and Make Six Figures | Jeremy Grove

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

Jeremy Grove shares how he smuggled hundreds of pounds of marijuana across the country and made hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process. In this revealing interview, Jeremy takes us through the methods he used, the risks involved, and what ultimately happened to him. #SmugglingStory #DrugTrafficking #TrueCrime #BigMoneyMoves #GeniusPlan #IllegalOperations #CrimeConfession #untoldstories Thank you to our Sponsors this week: Magic Mind: They have a limited offer you can use now, that gets you up to 48% off your first subscription or 20% off one time purchases with code LOCKED20 at checkout You can claim it at: https://www.magicmind.com/locked Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Jeremy Grove: http://Jeremygrovewrites.com IG: https://www.instagram.com/jerrydavid789?igsh=M2MyaDBqMGMzN2hr Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Inside Fort Dix: Life in a Notorious Prison 00:06:56 Advocating for Freedom from Cannabis-related Incarceration 00:14:27 Psychedelic Treatments and Job Training for Addiction Recovery 00:22:04 The Journey of Writing a Novel in Isolation 00:28:44 The Impact of Weed Legalization on Personal Freedom 00:36:02 Consequences of Academic Pressure and Addiction 00:42:42 Navigating the Cannabis Scene: Risks and Realities 00:50:06 The Mattress Smuggling Incident 00:56:42 Sketchy Banking Transactions and Legal Troubles 01:03:35 The Legalization Debate: Cocaine and Cannabis 01:10:31 Alcohol vs. Cannabis: A Societal Perspective 01:17:15 The Unforeseen Consequences of Prison Posting 01:24:23 Life in the Shoe: The Isolation Experience 01:30:59 Life in Solitary Confinement During COVID 01:37:24 Arrival and Experiences at Fort Dicks 01:44:30 Prison Misunderstandings and Near-Death Experience 01:51:47 Man on the Street Interviews about Prison Terms Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Jeremy, welcome to Lockton, man. Pleasure having you. You're friends with Travis Cullen. I am. Another Fort Dix person on the show. Everyone's hearing about Ford Dix lately. I know. Well, it is definitely like, I feel like it's the, like the prison of prisons.

Even in prison, everybody wants to end up at Fort Dix because they hear how crazy it is. Like, there's phones, there's everything going on there. Yeah, it really is crazy. When I first started the podcast, I kept talking about it and I couldn't find anyone that wanted to come on about it and now it's flooded with Fort Dix people. Oh, yeah. Well, you had to wait for him to get out. That was the problem.

That really what it was probably was. Yeah. Because a lot of you guys had just gotten out recently in the last year or two ago. Absolutely. Absolutely. And Fort Dix is a, oh, my goodness. It's like a third world country. They actually shut down O3 on the west side because it was like falling apart that

bad that they, it's got to be pretty bad when they're like, all right, nobody can live here. I still can't believe it's a prison. Just like the whole, it's nuts to me. I'm still mindless. You know what the craziest part to me is to think that, like, people signed up to go live there before it was the prison. You know what I'm saying? Like, people were like, oh, join the military and got sent there and just live there willingly for, like, a while, you know? It's so funny seeing some comments and people would be like, that's a military base.

It's not a prison. It's like it was an old military base and the new one is right next to it. Exactly, exactly. Now, yeah, it's a – they got it going on there. They got it going on there for us for us today. I actually already had a copy thanks to Travis. You did. See, Travis is like the biggest hype man for anyone.

He is. If he likes you, he's your number one fan. Travis is my boy. Freed-T-H-C.com. That's his website. He's my boy, for sure. He's opinionated sometimes. He gets a little heated, gets a little into it, but he's a good dude.

He's got a good heart. We both, we share this. the free all cannabis prisoners in common. He went to prison for weed. I went to prison for weed, obviously, in the current, like, climate we're in. We just think it's, really, I mean, to be honest with you, I think it's, like, the, the most obvious, like, human right violation we really have in this country is that people are making millions a million dozen dollars.

70% of people think it's legal, and that the people that got it to that point are still sitting in prison for it, because the way I see it is, like, you know, They were always wrong about it. And it's like if they made avocados illegal tomorrow, right? Like a lot of people would like, well, why were avocados illegal? It's like, well, I don't know. They are. You just have to follow the rules, right?

Well, if no one ever challenges that rule, no one's ever going to eat avocados again. So there has to be people that break the rules to get the rules to ever change. So now you have legal weed. You have people making millions of dollars, generational wealth, all of those things. But you still have the people that laid the foundation for that rotting in prison. cell serving life sentence serving 40 years. So actually that's another thing. I don't think I've told you. Edwin Rubis, who called in when Travis was here, he is supposed to call in a 1230 and we'll hear from him as well. He's currently serving a 40 year sentence for cannabis. He was sentenced under

Biden's like crime bill in the 90s that Biden got passed. That basically, basically back then, it was just straight extortion. If you didn't tell, they were just going to slam you, which it's not so different these days, but it's a little bit better. So he got 40 years as never getting, he never got caught with any of any weed, anything. It was just people, two people said he was involved that situation and he took it to trial, lost 40 years. And these are also nonviolent cases. That's what you guys are advocating for.

Like so, so the Oregon's last prisoner project, they actually like, they vet everybody who applies basically. And if you have, it's not even only on your crime, if you have any violence in your history at all. So if you have some domestic violence charge from, it doesn't matter. It can be 20 years ago. Stuff like that. Like they, you know, they really try to make sure that everybody that they're asking, because we're on a push for clemency right now. Like we're really trying to get Biden to fulfill his campaign promise to release all cannabis prisoners.

We're like dead set on countdown for clemency and holding him accountable to that promise. And, you know, him, like he did. the federal simple possession pardons, which let zero people out of prison. It's literally a publicity stunt. And so we're really trying to call him out that he needs to, especially someone like Edwin Rubus, who he was responsible for putting that man in prison as a nonviolent, first-time cannabis offender, 40 years. Like, and he got less, you know, he got less time than the people that at the top of his case. So, you know what I mean? Like, it was like one of those where he's just the random guy that gets left out.

Well, even more notable is he gets more time than sex offenders running around that four tics. Yes, yes, yes. There's guys on their second sex offense charge that will get like a five piece and then a ten piece and that equals way less than 40 years. Way less than 40 years. And so, you know, it's, we feel like it's all response, especially me, having served four years in federal prison for cannabis. So I know what it's like to go to sleep every night in a state where weed is legal in New Jersey.

and I'm sitting in federal prison for it when there's dispensaries right down the street. You know what I mean? And, you know, when you're in prison, everybody's in there together. Like, we're all inmates. Like, I'm definitely like, that's just how I am always going to see the world

because I'm labeled. I have the F attached to me. I'm a felon. So it is what it is. You know what I mean? So we all are together on that. But even when I was in there, I always felt like guys who are just in there for,

because there's kind of a difference. Like, there's guys who, for me, This is just my personal opinion. Like, there's a difference between, you know, believing in cannabis as a medicine, as like it's a good thing for people to do as alternative to alcohol, as alternative to other prescription drugs, all those things. It's just what I believe is my belief. That's why I didn't sell other drugs because I have a firm belief in cannabis. So that's why it was, you know, very much like I was a weed only. Like, that's all I dealt with.

that being said like I use other drugs I'm not against in fact this novel is centered around the concept of legalizing all drugs and but the cannabis to me is like to be in prison for that while people are making generational

wealth it's just it's wrong like it's a right or wrong issue and to have it then become politicized where now like it's like you know they're kind of trying to take bites of like the oh what?

I'm for legalization or I'm for and while these guys just sit in prison for me it's just like I'm done listening to you guys talk about it like it's time to get these people home to their families they don't deserve to be there I sat there for four years and you know going to sleep every night not belonging there so I know these got what these guys feel like and and that's you know that's just my personal mission is to get all those dudes home to their families because I know what it's like to hug my kid after missing time for a plant that's literally the most medicinally beneficial plant on earth. there's nothing else that can help you from curing a hangover to cancer. You know what I mean? Like what other one plant has that many, you know, things that can be beneficial to it. Obviously, do people misuse things? Do people, of course, but that's their personal choice. The plant itself and giving it to people is not, there's nothing that deserves people to miss time with their families, their lives.

They are the only victims of cannabis-related crimes. is the people who get charged in their families. That's it. And society as a whole, you gotta think, paid $350,000 for me to sit in prison for four years. Like, why, you know? And so now that's kind of my mission. While I was in, I wrote this book,

I spent 11 months in the shoe, and this is all kind of part of my like bigger vision, which while I was in the shoe, I spent my first seven days. seven days. It was almost in like a meditative, like, trance. I listened to a guy you had on, I think you've released his episode, maybe last week, um, who did Awasca. Right. Yeah. And, and, and now he feels like he's on like a mission like, Drew Banky. Yeah. Yeah. And I was really feeling him on that, but mine was like different because it wasn't drug induced. It was literally like, when I first went to the shoe, I didn't have a celly because it was COVID. So they weren't me. So I was, you know,

there was just an odd amount of people in the shoe. So they literally had. me in there by myself for seven days straight, nobody in there. And I had done a lot of yoga and stuff like that while I was there. So I kind of just started to meditate and I kind of got in like a deep like like learning about myself. I call it my mountain in India, like where you're almost reached like a point where you you dig inside of yourself very deeply. And I kind of found that like my purpose is to change the perception of cannabis when it comes to, opiate addiction recovery um because i believe that cannabis is actually the cure to opiate like if you ask somebody on the street okay do you want to get clean or whatever using the aa

model which is like complete sobriety right they immediately reject it and so many people if you're like okay but if you were allowed to use cannabis to to to wean off and like whatever they would but the you know i don't understand why something that has a 10% success rate the aa and a model is viewed as, like literally viewed as the only cure. Hold on a second. Oh, no, that's not him. Got to keep it up for Edwin. Oh, it's not even 1230.

Okay, we're good. So, where was I? You were just talking about cannabis and how, you know, family member or your family shouldn't be at home when people are incarcerated for family and then also your journey through the book, writing the book and how that related does. So, yeah, I believe, like, for instance, when I got arrested when I was in college playing baseball

with one and a quarter pounds of weed. All I did was smoke weed, like, and I drank, but I had actually kind of naturally switched over to the whole Cali Sober thing back before Cali Sober existed, where, you know, I smoked and my friends all drank, but I just preferred smoking. You know, this was 21 years old. And then I got arrested for it, got kicked off the baseball team.

And I, like, immediately my lawyer is like, oh, well, you need to go to drug classes to show that you're, you know, a good person. And then, you know, do good in college and all that. And it'll kind of go away. It's just a quarter, one and a quarter pounds of weed. It was like $1,500 worth of mids back in the day. So I did that. But, you know, when you're that age, like my friends. are basically like, oh, well, they're only going to test, like, weed is the one that stays in your

system a month if you can do other drugs and they won't be in your system. So that's what got me started on percocets and pills. And I also had the concept that if a doctor prescribes it, it can't be bad. And it definitely can't be worse than weed that's illegal. So the next thing I know, I'm addicted, I'm doing three 80 milligram oxy cottons a day. Like I'm incredibly addicted. And then all, you know, all my friends around me because they're the ones who had, you know, been like, oh, try this percocet on the weekend kind of thing. So now all of us are addicted to oxy. And, you know, luckily I got arrested again and like, and they raided my house, but it was like, I just got lucky in a situation where I had no drugs at the time. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like I had a quarter pound of weed in my house or something like that. So it didn't turn out to be a big deal because right in that moment I was trying to get off of pills so I didn't have any. But that, so that got me off of pills. But I believe I would have never started. I would have never gotten there if weed hadn't been illegal and I hadn't gotten arrested for it. And like, because that's the one that with drug testing like you can't do. You can do all the other ones.

You just have to stop before your drug test. But weed, you can't do. So I always like felt, I just feel like that. concept and like the way it's implemented in America is just so um like set up to be only against weed really like the whole war on drugs is like they include all drugs but weed is how they get them all so it like taking all these concepts that I have about my own personal experience and then watching then also watching all those friends that were addicted then becoming um dependent on heroin and then dying of fentanylaced overdoses.

So these are like my friends that like I believe that if they had just been like where it was just like, okay, weeds cool, other drugs stay away from those, they probably would have done that. But it was like that 2008, 2000, like that's when pills kind of took over and people did not understand that they were doing heroin. Like that that's the same thing. Your body doesn't know the difference between the two. So then as soon as they make the pills inaccessible, heroin shoots up. Like everyone switches over to heroin. And now they lace heroin with fentanyl, and that's how we end up with the epidemic, right? So all these thoughts are like swirling through my mind as I'm there for seven days, thinking about the people I've lost, like everything about my beliefs and everything.

And I kind of came up with this plan for, I call it Olivia's dream, where we have like a farm where you have a rehab where people live, but then it's also on a cannabis farm so that once they do like two weeks of detoxing using cannabis, and I actually would like to include like psychedelics in that because I really am like a lot of the psychedelic treatment for addiction is like going really well. And I think it's a good thing for people and kind of mix those things on a weed, farm so as guys or as people get off of opiates we also give them training in a field that they can take that's a new field in america like you know and they can get placed into jobs almost like a

you know you work on the farm whatever you're good at the dispensary whatever area of the cannabis industry like you show the interest in or you're able to perform then we can send you out and get you jobs and stuff like that like job placement so that's kind of like the concept i came up with of like a with that as the base of it. And then it's like, okay, well, how am I going to get the whole world to think that that's okay? Like, because most people are like, oh, that's just substituting drugs. It's like, yeah, well, so is when you go to an AA meeting and they're chugging coffee and chain smoking cigarettes outside. It's like people are going to do stuff.

Like, that's just the reality. So, I mean, would you rather have your kid doing fentanyl-l-laced heroin or smoking weed? I think that we'd all be like smoking weed. So anyway, all that came into like, okay, well, how do I get America to see that point, right? And so this novel is written to be a TV show, much like Prison Break is. It's not like a factual-based argument for the legalization of drugs. It's putting six characters in a world where drugs are legalized and then just letting them live life. So you got the DEA agent named Randolph who's just incredibly mad that he's spent his whole, like,

imagine what a DEA agent would feel like if all of a sudden they're like, hey, drugs are legal now. You got to go help the drug dealers pass, like get all their paperwork right so that they can sell drugs legally at the legal drugstore. Like imagine what that would do to like a DEA agent that's just been fighting this war on drugs this whole life. So his life just starts going downhill because he's just like, this isn't the way the world's supposed to be. And then the drug, you know, the drug kingpin that's now owning a legal story, he's sitting there like, man, this is hard. Like it was way easier to just run the block than it is to have to file for licensing and, you know, all these things, you know what I mean?

And then there's a single mom with two kids, like, wondering, like, like, how is this message going to affect my children? They're in high school. Like, is it going to send the wrong message to them that we've legalized drugs? And then there's another character, Sandra, that's living on the street, selling her body for heroin. Like, she doesn't even, you know, it's just, she's completely gone. And then there's a guy in prison for weed, it was kind of based off me. And then there's a young gay black cop who all he wants to do is the right thing. Like he's, you know, he sees everybody's sides and he can see how it can be a good thing,

but he can also see how it could like not, you know. He just is like wants to do the right thing, but it's confusing because it's like everything that the police and them are taught is now kind of out the window as they transition into this new world. But it's really like all of that is just to capture the reader into a story like prison break. We talked about that. But it's really sending a deeper message. Kind of like I was thinking about this earlier, like the character you said you related to, the one that the Fed guy kills in the second. season maybe. Which one?

Mahome kills the... Oh, yeah, yeah. Tweener. Yeah, tweener. Yeah, tweeter. Twainer, tweeter. Yeah. So, all right, so his character, right?

Yeah. And but that's the way I see it. And I realize it's like what you have to create is like scenarios that people can grasp onto a character and see the world as they see the world. You know what I'm saying? Like that. So then when you do that and it comes into like a visual form, which Americans are like, you know, they sit there and binge watch TV shows, that's how you can get into the minds of people like what you want them to see about like what you're trying to say. which is that we need to re-look at the way we view drugs in America and that the war on drugs isn't working.

So it's, you know, a lot of people I think they get scared of the book because they're like, oh, I don't believe in the legalization of drugs. But it's not really about that. It's about putting six characters in that world and just like playing it out from there. Does that make sense? Because I firmly believe you can read this book and at the end be like, yeah, I mean, like, see, it wouldn't work.

You know what I mean? Like based on your own interpret. of what you read, it's not necessarily a call for it. It's more like, okay, it happened, what happens next. Like, this is just the world that they live in. But it's, you know, it's sex, it's drugs, it's money. It's, you know, it's the, like, so I'll give you a prison. So a lot of guys in prison read it, obviously.

Guys I was in the shoe with, whatever. And one thing I'm definitely proud of is that, like, the super gangster black dudes. love the big character who is the big gangster black drug dealer in the book. You know what I'm saying? They're like, oh, he is like, that's me, that's me. And it's as the writer, it's like, that's exactly what I was trying to do

because I've met, like, I think you're like me. I've realized, like, listening to your podcast, you're like me in that you saw prison as, like, wow. Because, like, me and you both don't act, like, I sold weed, you know, like, we're not, like, way crazier stories like we know we're not going to win the like craziest story in prison but we can actually appreciate crazy stories like more because it's like wow like these people like they you really lived like that like that is crazy you know um like my my biggest one is a guy named sean gilreith

um i met him in the shoe you know he he got 50 at five years in the feds was facing um was facing uh the death penalty in another case and escaped from the Harold Bank Justice Center repelling down the thing on blanket sheets after he cut out of the wreck cage on the seventh floor with hacksaw blades. His mom had sent in the mail that he slept with up

his butt, like dead at. Like I'm like, oh my God. So he's like telling me that I'm like, I'm never going to win a story contest. Like that's the craziest thing. Some of these stories people always write like that they don't believe it. But you really, you know, it's crazy. I read his, like, I wouldn't have believed

it if he hadn't sent me all his paperwork and I'm reading the case and I'm like oh my god that is crazy it's better than TV or the movie I'm thinking I'm like and then I realize like oh because most people never meet these people like this guy is going to be in prison forever like so whoever actually meets him you know what I mean like once he disappeared from society after he got caught like no one else you know he's just gone to the rest of society but he's really not he's sitting there and I found him you know what I mean yeah so I like that was the first time i took like i wrote um it was like a long like maybe like 50 pages or something like his story because i wanted to capture it all because i'm like this is gonna i'm gonna find somebody that's

gonna make this story into a movie one day you know what i mean like because i kind of as like a writer and like a story you know i grasp onto stories and i grasp onto people as characters like when i see so like you know as a character Travis cullen Travis cullen is a book character for sure like you know what i mean like just his personality his way like you can just see the way he thinks you know how he's going to like respond if he's put in certain scenarios, which is really what like writing is. So it was just like, I guess the book was just a culmination of like my beliefs mixed in with like putting it into a story giving like, um, odes or like to people that I know or people experiences that I've had. It's like a lot of the characters are kind of like a mixture of people I know and things like that. So it was just like and to have that journey while you're spending 11 months in the shoe, you know, to accomplish.

Like it's just like for me it was like my I would never, most people you said, okay, I'm going to stick you in a six by nine cell for 11 months straight with another person with a toilet, a sink, a bunk bed and a desk. Like I think most people would be like I'd never survive. But it's like instead I did the greatest thing I've ever done. Yeah, you use it as a tool. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely. And we'll have the link to your book in the bio. And before we jump in, you know, to your story, dude, you got to try one of these.

You're the magic mind, macha energy shots. It's got a little quirky taste to it, but it's good, you know? Give it a little shake. These things, I keep them in the fridge here for our guests. And it improves your mental performance, sharper mind, lower stress, better energy. You take one of these. This is going to be like my second one today. And it just, you're fired up, you know, and it helps you get through long episodes, sit, and you just focus more.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, cheers. Yeah, cheers, man. Try that out. What do you think? It's good. Yeah, not bad, right? Yeah, it doesn't have like a, I don't know, it doesn't taste like vegetables or, I don't know, it's just good.

Yeah, and there's a ton of people into macha. That's matcha flavored. So they definitely got to check that out, and you get a pretty big discount with our promo code. I'll have that in the link of the bio for people, too. That's awesome. So where did you grow up? So I grew up in Baltimore, Maryland. Baltimore.

Yeah. Well, Elkridge, like outside of Baltimore, yeah. Mom, dad, siblings. Mom and dad still together, super right-wing, like, religious people. I grew up homeschooled, won a national Bible quiz. This is the first. Yeah, right. You guys grew up religious.

You guys grew up religious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Church. Church, Sunday school, Sunday morning. Then all day Sunday, we'd have Bible quiz practice. Then we had church choir. then we had Sunday night service, then we had Wednesday night prayer meeting, then we had Friday night, Oana, which is like youth groups.

So what's that, seven, seven different services a week. You did this all through high school too. Oh my gosh, all the way from the time I was born until I was 18. So you've never experienced, like, public high school. No, no. Do you miss that? Like, do you envy that? Um, I'm one of those people who just, like, doesn't waste a whole lot of time thinking about that kind of thing.

I was probably time I was lucky enough that Like there was a lot of kids that went to my church That were in a lot more of like a Like I would consider it more like a cult To be completely honest with you But they were a lot more Like I was allowed to play sports with everybody

In fact when I was 18 Like I was like in love with a girl in the church And her dad said that I couldn't like court her Because I played baseball on Sundays And like you're supposed to like rest on Sunday And like you're supposed to like rest on Sunday. So because I played baseball on Sundays, I wasn't good enough for his daughter. So that's the kind of like church I grew up in.

But like I said, you know, because I was good at sports, my mom let me do a little bit more. And I was a rent. So it was like, as like looking back, it's like the kids on the team always felt bad for me. You know what I mean? Like now looking back, it's like I pick up on that because it was like, why? Like I feel like they act a little weird around me. You know what I mean? But looking back, it's because they were worried about, like, I don't know if we can say anything around Jeremy.

Like, what if he tells his mom? Like, that kind of thing. So I made a big point. Like, and so that, so when I did R-Dap, and it's something that I've, like, you know, processed already kind of. But what, like, a lot of in R-Dap, they try to, like, dig down to, like, you know, whatever. And it's like, I realized that I've always, like, since my mom, everybody had to not be themselves around my mom. because it was like, you can't, you can't cuss around, you can't do anything that you, you know, you got to be secretive around this.

I've always been like, I want everyone to be like they can be cool, like they can do anything around me and it's cool, like everything's fine. Like, I'm the cool one. I'm down. Like, you can do anything around me. I'm not going to tell, you know, all that kind of stuff. And probably like, probably to the point of like detriment to my life, you know, like, where it's like I probably should have like, okay, guys, like, we should probably chill on this.

But I just was always like, oh, no. I'm the cool one. I'm cool. So that's how I grew up was definitely in that. And then I didn't. In fact, the first time I smoked weed, I was going through a lot. I went to college. So I homeschool my whole wife.

But then I go off to college to play baseball. So it was the first time I'm going to class and all these things. And it was like a very, very hard adjustment for me. And I was going through a lot of mentally and all this stuff. Kind of had like a breakdown during the season, all that kind of things. And then my friends were basically, like, well, we haven't, like, told you this, but, like, we started smoking weed and that would probably help.

And so, like, they were afraid that I was going to be like, no, I don't, you know. And I was like, okay. And so I tried it. And, like, the next day I hit a home run my first at bat. And it's like, what it really is is that it's just, like, I needed to realize that it was all going to be all right and just relax. You know, it was just, I'm a person that gets too, like, too. if, you know, I don't chill out.

And so smoking just helps me as an individual. And that's why I'm big on like, really, it's crazy to me that we consider ourselves a free country, but it's like you don't have the personal freedom to decide what or is or isn't good for you, your personality or how you feel like, you know what I mean? So I think that that's a good thing with the legalization is basically it's like if you're using it medicinally, aka to feel better. Like people have kind of accepted that as a. majority of society. Anyway, so that that was kind of where I started smoking weed was like those

college years where I was like really experiencing a lot of anxiety and all those kind of things. And it made better. And then like I said though, then it led to me getting arrested and then, you know, all those things. So a lot of people are like, oh, like look how weeds ruined your life. I'm like, I mean, really, it's like weed being illegal ruined my life. And I can understand like the, oh, you did the time to the crime. But like, I'm always like, I did. I did four years in prison. Like you can't you can't act like I didn't I did I serve my time I'm still allowed to say what I think and feel you know what I mean? A lot of people have this like mentality that they think I should be like apologetic or I should

be like remor. I'm like about what that I sold like I was literally what I really was like I was the bartender downtown and then like my friend moved to California started a dispensary he's like yo if I send you a pound of weed do you think you could get rid of it and I'm like I mean probably everybody I know smoking. So he sent me a pound and the next day it's gone because everyone's like, oh, wow, this is really good. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's just that.

So that, that started that. And then one time my friend came over to smoke and me and my daughter's mom. I was with her at the time. And we went in and I was like, oh yeah, we just bought this bed. And it was like a king size bed. We'd just gotten from mattress firm or something. And he's like, oh, it's a nice bed. I was like, yeah, imagine how much weed you could put in that bed.

And he's like, oh, I actually, I know one of my friends, my college roommate runs a foam factory in Florida. He could totally make you mattresses that could do that. And I'm like, really? He's like, yeah. He's like, yeah, you can tell him that it's for and everything. He'll design it exactly for it. I was like, okay. So that's what I started doing.

Like I had the guy in Florida shipped the mattress to California. I'd go out there. We'd buy 40 pounds, put it in a mattress, and ship it across the car. country. Like, that's what we were doing. Um, and I had a guy that was paying me, like, paying, giving me the money for the weed. I'd go out and buy the weed, put it in the mattress, send it back. And then when he got the mattress with the 40 pounds, I'd get $200 a pound on top. So I was just like sweet. So what, yeah, what's a breakdown? How much you're paying for? So that would be like eight grand. That you're making profit. Yeah. I would make eight grand off of like,

basically being the person that like went out there, like, you know, made sure it all got, you know, packaged and everything in the mattress, sent it back. Because it would be sent to a storage unit that was in like somebody else's name or whatever. Like I didn't have anything to do with that. He would take care of that. So it was just like fly out there. Now I tell people all the time.

I'm like and I'm a move like I own a moving company now. I also even when I was selling weed, like I said, I was a bartending downtown. I was working in a moving company and I'm selling wheat. I've just always been that kind of person. Like it's like if I'm not working, it's like I feel lazy. I'm not going to, you know, whatever. So I tell people all the time, though, I'm like, yo, everyone acts like selling weed is like, oh, he's lazy, you just sells weed. I'm like selling weed.

Like standing at a bar and getting drunk talking to hot women is way easier than flying out to California, getting struck in L.A. traffic, having to showing up to buy five pounds from somebody and then the weed sucks. And then realizing that you got to drive two hours this direction to maybe find out that that weed sucks too. and then you have to have it all done before the terminal closes at five o'clock on Wednesday. You know what I mean? Like it's like, and you're, you know, trafficking a felony. Like, you know what I mean? Like the stress of all of those things. Like, oh my God, like it's so much easier to just own a moving company.

Like to everybody that listens to this that is still selling drugs. And this is what I told people in prison all the time, for real. If you are out there selling drugs right now and you view yourself as how, highly successful. If you are making tons of money, you are capable of running a legitimate business and not risking going to prison. And even if you screw that business up, going bankrupt is a lot easier than going and surfing 10 to 20 years. And the kind of money you're talking about, I promise you, is like just start a legal business. Try it out. If it doesn't work, try something else because drug dealing is not it in America.

It is not the wise decision. Now the mattress doesn't smell at all when you're putting it in there. No, so what we would do is we would put, we get, that was, that was, that was always the biggest problem, right? Is that 11 inch vacuum seal bags in California are so hard to find. I'm talking about every CVS, Walmart, and Target, anywhere within an hour and a half of Los Angeles, I have been to 10 times. at least because you need the 11-inch vacuum seal bags and then you um like each package would fit five pounds in it so we'd cut them into threes so you put five pounds in vacuum seal rub rubbing alcohol all over it another vacuum sealed bag over top of it rub alcohol over that

another vacuum seal bag over that so it's like triple sealed with the two layers of alcohol in between because dogs can't smell through the rubbing alcohol. That's how we did it. And that's how we did it even when, like, before that, he was just sending me pounds and five pounds in the mail and stuff like that. And that's all done with that. It's all vacuum seal. Do you have a custom mattress or you cut open each, a new one every time?

No. So the guy, like basically what he was doing was sending like one piece of foam that was the top and then the rest of it was all put together. So that like the bags would be five pounds Like four of those And then it kind of had a foam thing in the middle To put stability to it And then four five pound bags underneath

And that's how you would get the 40 pounds in there So the bags of weed were probably about that that tall Like if a queen size bed is sideways That's how tall the bags of weed were And then there was eight of them Now was this after college or during college Oh, no, this was, this was, this was, this was 2013, well, 2015 is when we're doing the matches. It's like, 2014 is when I kind of, like, built up to that level of selling weed, I guess.

So did you graduate college successfully or no? No. After that year where I got arrested and kicked off the baseball team, I mean, like, if I'm honest with you, I only went to college to play baseball. Like, you know, once I got kicked off the college baseball team, then the only reason I really stayed in college was because the lawyer, it told me. me if I don't get good grades, then I'm going to go to jail. So I got like a 375 that semester. I looked real good when I showed up to court, 375, all these drug classes. Meanwhile, I'm really addicted to pills now.

But on paper, I look good. And I think that's kind of like the thing that always like gets me is that, like, they always look at like what you are on paper. And it's like they don't really know the whole story behind like what it is on paper. You know what I mean? How did your parents react of getting kicked out of school and even caught with drugs? Because I imagine it was a very drug-free household growing up. Even to that, like me and my mom, like I love my mom. I just visited my parents on the way up here.

I would say that, you know, there's an understanding between the two of us that we just don't talk about those things. Like it's just, but they've been there for me throughout all of it. It's never been like a turn their back. on me because of it or anything like that. They supported me my whole bit. I wrote letters to my mom the whole time I was in the shoe and my sister's... Now, my sister, like, the way most people are with their mom is how I am with my sister. Like, she's always kind of like taking care of me when it comes to me, you know,

me being just an irresponsible, like, human being. But, and she's more the person that if in the moment I'm going to call my sister, my mom's going to find out but my sister's going to be there to like bail me out of jail or whatever it is. That's why I moved to South Carolina from Baltimore

was because my sister lived down there. So her and I are like super close like super open and on this. With my mom it's more like we're only going to discuss certain topics. So now fast forward to where you get to the mattress built business. Are you like a low level dealer too

or are you just doing the big loads? Or are you actually breaking it down? I mean honestly, So the way the mattress ended up being was it ended up basically being its own separate thing to, you know, I had, I was getting maybe like five pounds a week or something like that that I had, you know, a guy I'd give a pound to another guy I'd give two. Like very much only, only my like people that were in my inner circle of like they walk in my door without knocking kind of people were the only people that bought like weed from me like anything less than. probably a quarter pound, you know what I mean? Like, and normally for them, they, it's just, I would just give them some weeds. Like, oh, you need some weed, bro.

Here you go. But that, like, that was kind of the level I was at, which I always try to do numbers for people. I mean, you're talking about if you're making, if you're making 700 a pound breaking it down at all, like, that's really good. and I was averaging maybe like four on those. So you're talking about if I'm doing five pounds, like maybe two grand a week. Which is great money.

It is. But you can make two grand a month legally. You get what I'm saying. You could drive Uber. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like back to that. It's like, that sounds good.

It is like, oh yeah, $2,000. Like, yeah, hell yeah. $2,000 a week is good money. You can pay all your bills. You can have a little fun. Like $2,000 a week is great, right? But it's not risk. It's not worth four years in prison.

You know what I mean? Like that's like, like, and even with something like that where it's like people look at that as a baby bit. And I look at it as a baby bit too because I certainly know that, you know, people do a lot more time than that. But it's not worth it. Like it's just there if you're smart enough to like be able to handle the stress and the like everything that can go wrong. Like you're, you're talking about a world where you there's no option of like calling the cops to like figure. it out. There's no going to court. So it's just a risk. Now, that's one of the reasons I stayed with weed and I was only dealing like, you know, it's like, people look at it from the outside. They're like,

oh, if you were doing all that, like that much weed comes to me like when you read my case or whatever. It's like, oh, like he was doing, but it's like, okay, but I was dealing with my one boy who's getting 40 pounds at a time. So that adds up real quick, but these are like my friends that I hang out with on a daily basis. You know what I mean? Like they're not, you know, they're my boys. Um, and then, And the people that I'm even like selling, like, these are like all people, like, I'm not, like, I guess people always have this concept of like the block mentality where like people are just rolling by and rolling down their windows like, yo, you got anything. You know what I mean?

Like, that's not really the way weed dealing is like when you just sell weed. It's way more of like, you know, you guys all hung out and smoked weed together for years. Now he lives out west and has weed and you're, you know, bartending there. He's like, oh, you know, like that, the situation that happened. with me is more, I feel like more typical of how people are like selling weed these days because an end, and that's one of the things, that's one of the concepts that I take into the concept of legalizing drugs is that when we were younger, or when I was younger, you're way younger than I am, but, you know, the early 2000s, like drugs were getting brought by the

cartel, like, or weed was getting, you know, it was all Mexican brickweed, you're talking about cartels, you're talking about cartel violence, you're talking about, you know, what they do when things, whatever, right? But when legalization happened in California and Colorado especially, I would say that that 2012 when they legalized is really what got the ball like really rolling. But essentially, weed kind of transitioned into an American industry. Like Americans were growing weed in America and shipping weed across the country. Like no one was getting, you know, weed from Mexico. Like no one gets weed from Mexico anymore.

It literally killed the entire industry of cartels moving marijuana to America with just legalizing it. Once we legalized it, because even what I was doing, you got to think that's still an American product. Like, they're getting it out there. Like a lot of times I would go out there, walk into dispensary and buy a bunch of pounds of weed. Like, you know, it's a dispensary. So I'm buying it at a store and then it becomes illegal when I put it in a mattress and ship it across the country. But in like a grander scale, it's still an American product. Like the, you know, that money is being spent in America.

It's being, you know, transition in America. It's all staying in America rather than going to cartels just by legalizing it. So on an economics thing, it's like, well, if you legalized all drugs and all the money was now being regulated and taxed. And we focused on treating addiction and the root causes of that rather than incarceration and all those kind of things as kind of where like I put all those things together. but that's all from me shipping weed and like that I mean it's just like there was never guns like like like people are like like like oh there had to be guns I'm like why would any of these people have brought guns like we were hanging out playing video games like and it's not even like I'm really even selling them weed where they're bringing me money and I'm handing them a pound I'm just handing them the pound of weed and then they bring me the money back later so how are they going to like robbing me is just not showing back up like I mean I think it depends on who you're associating with because I've talked to guys in your position where they needed weapons. Yes. Because they were dealing with shady individuals.

Well, and that's, and that's, that's what I'm getting at is that it's like the weed game, it can be like that. It can be, if you're dealing with cartel and dangerous people and gangs. But if you're selling to your boys or you guys are a bunch of, you know, hippies kind of. Yes. We're stoners. Yeah. You know, then it's chill. And that's kind of like, there's a big difference.

to me between guys who were just like a drug dealer like where it's like you're just like you know they and and being in prison with them they see themselves as that like they like no like like if that I sell drugs this is what I do I don't care if it's weed crack like whatever it doesn't matter boom like whatever's in the bed but that's just not my mentality like I'm not I'm not that's not my mentality. It's like, you know, and it's not, and like I said, some people that sell weed, like they are like that for sure, of course, because there is money in weed. But there is this whole other section of cannabis dealings in America now that's like you said. It's like a bunch of hippies. They're boys. They smoked weed together growing up. They love it. You know, they move some, like,

you know, almost everybody I know has some friend from high school that moved out west and started getting into the weed industry. It's just, it's more like an acceptable part of life. So then, you know, it's just, and it's money. So then, you know, money gets involved. Like, you know, exactly what happened is like my friend moved out there. You know, he needs money because he's trying to get weed, you know, get his thing going on out there. I'm living in South Carolina.

All my friends want weed, you know, boom. Oh, there we go. I never, like, I really thought, like, I didn't think six months. I thought six months, like, okay, you know, if I get caught doing this, it's like, what, it can't be more than six months. You're not going to spend more than six months in prison for weed. And at this point, 2016 was when I got arrested by the state. I was like, no way. Like, no one cares.

My lawyer's like, yeah, if you don't talk, it's going to be five years. I'm like, five. I'm like, all right, whatever. Yeah, so tell us how you got caught and how it became a Fed case. So, um. And how long were you? A little waste. A lot of wow.

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according to the feds it well it was like December of 2013 is when you know he he started sending me weed and then June of 2016 is when I got arrested by the state how many pounds do you think he moved in in between that time I honestly have no idea we talking hundreds thousands not thousands not hundreds hundreds I mean if I if I had to put a number on it I don't know probably seven or eight hundred pounds maybe in the course of two years maybe and how much money do you think that is i mean at at 200 i would i would guesstimate that i made between 200 and 250 000 in two years in two years so that's 125 000 a year no taxes because it's all cash yeah which like i said like i said like that's obviously i'm not saying it's not good money girls are making more than that only fans exactly exactly exactly exactly they make that a month exactly exactly exactly Exactly. No prison time.

No prison time. That's what I mean. It's like, you know, like, it's just not worth it. It's not worth it. And, you know, I think that it really was never about the money to me. Like, I know that everyone says that, but it's just like I really love weed. Like, and I really loved like, and even now, now was awesome about having the novel and about fighting for cannabis prisoners

is that I'm back in the space without having to risk any more of my freedom. So it's like I'm and almost like going to prison for it has kind of given me this like mission. And now it's like put me in like going to the last prisoner project Gallaud and I like meeting

Travis like in the video that we made down in D.C. Like doing all these things have kind of like helped heal the fact that I went to prison for it. But also like it's it's put me to where I can get involved without having to risk more time with my family and stuff like that. There's also like the art of the hustle and the art of the deal,

those, you know, that psychology of you, you enjoy putting it together. Like for me, I loved events. Yes. It wasn't necessarily about the money. I mean, money is great and stuff. Yeah, exactly. But you like being the man and like, like, and that's, so now I own a moving company.

And it's, you know, I own a moving company. I have rivalry moving in, in Charleston, South Carolina. and because I've been in the industry, you know, a long time. I was really good at moving. I'm like a really, really hard worker. I just am. And now that I own my own moving company, it's like a lot of the same skills that and kind of like legit, really it's logistics.

Like thinking of like when I came up with the logistics of getting that mattress across the country, like everything involved with that. You're talking about I'd get to California. I'd go to the store. I'd buy a prepaid phone. Well, first thing I'd do is put cash on a like a prepaid. card so that the card would be untraceable, then I'd buy a phone with that card so that if they looked into it, the phone got bought with that card, then I would, I would put a whole name

into the phone that was somebody I went to church with growing up. It was always somebody I went to church with growing up. And I'd make a whole fake profile with them, like as, you know, a Gmail, like all these things so that then when I get on Freightcenter.com and I'd, like, you know, go through the whole, Because to get the mattress, they wanted to come pick up the mattress from you. But if you call them, then you can actually deliver the mattress to an 18-wheeler terminal. And then, you know, it goes. But you have to call them and kind of like explain the situation. So I would call and like pretend to be this.

And I would always have to pick a different 18-wheeler company. I'd have to, you know, just like all these things. So it's all. And like you said, like those like figuring out the logistics of all of these things was like almost like invigorating. because it's like I'm figuring out like how to ship, you know, $100,000 worth of wheat across the country. This is kind of cool. Well, now it's like I'm just thinking of like how I'm going to get this U-Haul and this U-Haul picked up from these locations with a truck trip. You know what I mean?

It's like the same. I'm doing the same thing. It's fun. Yeah, exactly. And then I get, I get, but then I get paid at the end and I'm like, I almost feel like, like, like, you know, when I make money at the movie company, I almost like, I'm like, I'm allowed to do that. Okay, I'm allowed to make, I'm allowed to make money. legally. It's okay. Like, because it's like, I'm so used to like, it's like, as soon as my life is going good,

it's like, oh, God, I'm getting arrested. So bring us to that, that arrestor, how you got caught with the mattress smuggling. Okay, so the, the, basically, we were going through the Charlotte Airport, and I had 40,000 in my bag, and another guy had 42,000, well, first the mattress went missing. Mattress went missing. So that was done. So we got a guy that was supposed to drive. So he was coming out with me

He had $40,000 in his bag I had $42,500 in my bag Something like that And I went through no problem Like I always did And he goes through They stop him They see the money

They let him through Then they come over to the Starbucks line At the Charlotte Airport And they ask like They asked to talk to him He goes over Then they call me over And basically they're like

We're gonna take this $40,000 from you Until you can prove like How you have it So I had like the guy whose money it was I basically I told him I was like you know They took the money. I don't know how to get back so he goes after it because we had a good we had a plausible story of why We had the money right, but we also know the truth So it's like so basically essentially we he got a lawyer and he got the money back like we had to go up there meet with homeland security like all that shit, like sit there, interview with them and they gave the money back, but they never believed

it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like, they had to give us the money back because we kind of had enough evidence that said that they had to. But that's when the feds started investigating us and trying to figure out like, okay, where did this $40,000 really come from? They were like, catch and release to see. Yes.

Yes. How do you get $40,000 through TSA, though? You said you made it through with your portion. I don't really, like, it's not like I really. know for sure. I just never had a problem with it when I was flying. Now, I've gotten fat now, but I used to be in shape. And like I said, I was a baseball player.

So what I used to do was I would dress, like, I would wear like an Orioles hat with like an Orioles underarmor like thing. And I'd have like my glove in my bag and like wear like. And they would, and one time in Atlanta, they found the money. Like they found the money. And the lady looked at me and I was just like. I was like, yeah, I got spring, the spring training out there, whatever. And she was like, oh, okay.

And like, let me go. So I never said I'm a baseball player, but I tried to, like, look like I was a professional baseball player so that it would, they would just be like, oh, okay, like it makes. And I guess, I mean, honestly, like playing the white card. You know what I mean? Like, at the time, I'm like a 27 year old, you know, in shape, white guy, dressed like he's an athlete, like, with, like, sport stuff in a bag and money. like they just never

Like that was just how I did it So the money's just casually in the bag Yeah And you put it through You always carry it with you You don't check it in Mm-mm I would carry it right with me And I just I'd act like like when she's something

I'm like what you're not allowed out of money She's like oh no you are Like all right well Yeah because I was reading the other day There's not which I thought this was untrue From a movie or something But I thought that there was a certain dollar amount You could travel with

But there's not It says you can bring a limited amount of money Through TSA But they could stop you and ask for proof of how you have it exactly and that's exactly what happened and like we like I said we had we had enough proof

to get the money back but it was like I just and even when I was sitting there talking to him like afterwards he's like he's like oh they're going to give us the money back and I'm just like pro because I stopped selling weed I stopped like that

that made me stop I stopped and then I got a job you know I was bartending again working a moving company and then I broke my hand playing flag football and so I couldn't you can't bartend or move with a broken hand and um so like my you know like after a little while they're like oh well like basically it's like I needed money so I started selling weed again and then so the match the money all that happened in like August of 2015 and then June of 2016 is when the state rated my house. And then March of 2017, the feds picked up the case and came into my house and picked me up,

even though from the time I got arrested by the state until I got arrested by the feds, I didn't do anything. Like, I was just working at a moving company doing nothing. They knew that, like, all that. What it really was is because they, like, literally, I, like, literally, I, refused to speak with them at all. Like, my lawyer kept being like, oh, it's like, I don't have anything to say to him. So they tried to like basically arrest me.

So that like, as punishment, because my lawyer, we knew that they were going to indict me. And it was supposed to be like a, hey, turn yourself in situation. Like that was the way it had been kind of planned out. But for some reason, they just instead decided to come in at 5.30 in the morning, guns up, FBI, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, yo, what? Like, for real, you guys couldn't have just told me, like, come in? You know I'd come in.

And where'd they go to your apartment? You have a house. You had a house. And it was just you at the time. It was me. My daughter was in bed with me. My 18-month-old daughter was asleep in bed with me with, like, the guns up and all that. That's one of my biggest, like, that's why I always see it as they're up one-nothing

to me, but I will never let them. I will not lose this battle after putting a gun. Like, like I said, like my entire time, selling weed never once was a gun involved. Like there was never a whisper of a gun. I never felt in danger of a gun. There was no weapons involved. Nobody cared about. Like I mean, you know,

some people I'm sure had guns and I'm sure they dealt with like whatever. But nothing in my dealings with anyone was a gun ever even a thought. You know what I'm saying? I'm confused. What did they actually have on you? Like, what was it? So they only had seven pounds in my house when I got arrested. But what they had was bank records.

That's how they were able to get the war for your arrest? So, so So basically my people in California had been having, because I would take money out. Like the cash going out wasn't the only way I was like, there's too much money involved. Like you're talking about hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars like that I'm being fronted and owing back and all that stuff. So essentially what we were doing is dropping $9,000 in bank accounts at a time. But that couldn't equal enough as much as we needed. So I'd have to take the rest.

So we're trying to get as much in as we can, 9,000 at a time. but I live in Greenville, South Carolina. It's a tiny town. There's only one Wells Fargo open on Saturdays, and it's only open until 1 p.m. I probably walked in that thing at like five, six times at 1258 on a Saturday, dropping $9,000 exactly into a bank account in California. I'm like, yo, guys, like you've got to come up with a better way to do this.

This is sketchy. They're like, no, no, they don't care. They don't care. I'm like, they're like, it has to be $10,000. I'm like, man, this is sketchy, bro. Like, I'm not like, no, like, no, else is doing this. No one else is showing up with $9,000, two minutes before the bank closes every weekend. That's crazy. Um, and because you got to think they're out in Cali, so they're still

waking up on a Saturday at like 10 in the morning. You know what I mean? So they might get up at like 9, 15 and finally give me the, but the thing was is they're giving me different bank account numbers and different business names that I'm putting these things in. Little dude I know, all of those businesses all led back to one dude. So he ends up on my indictment. I've never even met the dude. I have no idea who this guy is other than just like I've seen his name on like bank account. Like I've dropped money into a bank account with his name on it. But I've also, I didn't realize that all of the bank accounts I dropped into all went back to him. So they had me dropping like $780,000 over the course of two years into his bank accounts, which was really their evidence. So basically what, and so he ended up

having to forfeit $500,000 cash and a $280,000 property in L.A. And he got just structuring charge. Like, he didn't go to jail. Why didn't he go to prison? Did he snitch on some?

I'm the only person in my case who went to jail. Yeah. He didn't go to jail. And the guy who was the guy who was the one giving me all the money who had moved out to California and was involved in all of it, he just told on everybody and got

no time. So I'm the only person in my, there was three people. people in my indictment. I was at the bottom. I'm the only one who got time. I got five years. Did they offer you to snitch on anyone? Or was it too late?

Yeah, actually, actually my lawyer called me because I told him I wasn't going to talk, but then he called me and he was like, look, they just arrested the co-defendant in California. He's saying that they have the wrong guy. If you'll just identify that that is the person, like they're willing to work with you. I was like, I've never seen him before in my life. And my lawyer is like, okay, but it takes. doesn't matter. Like, if you just, like, help them. And I was like, what do you understand about? I've never seen this dude in my life. I'm not identifying. Like, you know, like, I'm realizing.

I'm like, oh, so this is how you guys really do this shit. It's like, you're telling me what to say to get myself out of it when I've literally never met the dude. I've never met the dude in my life. Like, you, because essentially what it is is like, they really, they, like, they, being the feds. because like even when I got sentenced, which surprised me, the prosecutor, she was, like she did, she was like, you know, Mr. Grove doesn't has, has like no violence. Like, you know, he doesn't seem like a bad guy, but basically like because he didn't cooperate, like he is like, you know, he's due the mandatory minimum 60 month sentence. And the judge, because I had people there like, you know, my boss, like all these people to sit there.

and try to help. And the judge was basically like, look, I'm going to give you the mandatory minimum. I'm not giving you a day over the mandatory minimum. Um, so you can have all these people come up and say, but I'm tied. Like, I have to give you because without the downward departure from telling, that's, it is what it is. You're going to do the mandatory minimum. That's all there is to it. Um, so, I mean, that's just something I had to accept that this was going to happen. That's what I did. Now, here, let me give you a hypothetical. Um, we talk about these weed cases, how it's, it's not right that they're getting so many years in prison for weed. And in your case, on the other end of it, right, devil's advocate, what if they were charged

with tax evasion? So I did get, I did, I mean, I do have money laundering too, which that's just, but that's more, like it's not a money laundering. Some money laundering means you can't get a bank account when you get out and all those kind of things. It's just the basic like drug, like basically anytime you sell drugs like your money laundering because you're certainly not reporting it as taxes. my argument with that is like you got to give us a chance so you're saying you would pay taxes

if it's legal yeah absolutely absolutely and i you know i believe that one day i will get involved in that industry again when it is like when i'm you know free and clear of everything and all that kind of stuff but i would never do it like i said like now i know how to run a business like a legal one like that it's not yeah it's more paperwork it's more like annoying in that kind of way it's not not as a like, I guess like, doesn't sound as cool. You know what I mean?

Like, oh, a drug dealer, whatever. But it's not, like, it's just easier to just follow the rules and, and do it that way.

And I think that, like, like, in states, like, for instance, California right now, the regulations are,

like, way, way, way, more than they used to be. It used to be just the wild, wild west out there. You could basically, like,

have a piece of paper that says, oh, I'm growing plants for all these people and they wouldn't cut them down. Now, like, a lot of people in my space are not going to agree with me saying this, but it makes sense to me that the give and take is that right with right, like out there, when you get caught and you don't have all your licenses, they cut all your weed down, which means you're going to take a huge financial loss. And then they're going to hit you with a huge fine that's going to be basically unpayable. and like financially that is a huge like that's a huge thing like that that is a huge punishment right like that is like in my mind that's punishment enough you get what I'm saying like there is punishments for that that don't involve going to prison like any like those kind of things like if you don't give people the chance to do it legally then you don't have an argument in my mind like if I don't have if I didn't have the chance to pay taxes on the weed that I was selling then you can't be like oh well you didn't pay the taxes on the weed you were selling you got to give me a chance to do that you can't say I didn't do it when you didn't give me a chance to do it so but I but with that I think that once people are given the chance to do it legally and then they're choosing to still do it illegally then the punishments that come along with that having your plants cut down having you know financial crippling like literally crippling financial crippling like literally crippling financial

financial penalties where you're now never going to be able to really be in the cannabis industry again, that comes with the territory of legalization. You know, couldn't these people make the same argument for like cocaine or anything? Like people being born into weed being illegal, they already know that that's illegal to begin with. Yeah. So that's no different than like cocaine.

I'm just saying from like the government's perspective on it. Well, I mean, obviously I think that cocaine should be legalized and regulated. Okay. Well, you know what I mean? Like I'm saying that individuals kind of know it's illegal to begin with. So it's more the bigger picture is if you want it to be, if you want the opportunity to have it taxed or whatnot or to pay your taxes, then you wouldn't do it to begin with just so you could. Like you're doing it because you don't have to pay taxes?

That and also like there's a different way maybe to go about it during that time period than actually sell it because you know it's illegal, if that makes sense. Okay. I mean, I get what you're like... Like people are arguing that there shouldn't be, say, 40 years for going to prison for weed. But they knew selling the weed that it was illegal to begin with. Yes. But then there's the other argument, well, weed never should have been illegal to begin with. So it's like that gray area of, well, the person knew it was illegal so they shouldn't have started to sell it to begin with. And they should have fought the opportunity to be able to sell it in a different way.

So like I said, I did four years. so I serve my time. Like no one can say I didn't. I did. So I feel like I am able to speak on this in the sense of this. On an individual, like we're talking micro macro, right? Micro, you're absolutely right. It was my decision to do something illegal that led to me going and spending four years in prison.

I did it, right? On a micro scale, everyone who makes the decision to sell drugs, sell weed, whatever, is making the decision. decision and risking that, right? But if we only focus as a society on each individual choice and not the macro real issue, we know that people are going to keep making the same choice, right? Like on a statistical sense, like on a, on a, like, you can say all day, oh, each individual, it, but we know the law and supply and demand exist. So someone is going to sell the drugs. One of my biggest arguments with, like, the novel and everything is when I was in prison,

all these guys that big drug dealer, like, oh, yeah, like felt like they deserved to be there for life because they were such a big gangster drug dealer, right? When I asked them, okay, well, how many people stopped doing drugs because you got arrested and are in jail now? none like right and so on a on a macro scale we're talking about supply and demand of drugs to users the users are going to be there

that means someone's going to supply now I had the choice whether to be that supplier you have the choice whether to be that supplier you know my wife has a choice to be the supplier or not but in the end someone is going to choose they are going to be the supplier like someone will make that choice that's impossible that it's not

Like, that's a fact. So on a macro scale, we know someone's going to make that choice. So you can be the kind of person that's like, oh, well, each individual, that's their fault, which it is. But on a macro scale, we have to look at like, okay, but we know that's going to happen. We know there's going to be someone that sells the drugs. We know that people are going to. So what can we do about this that's going to take that choice away from those people? Like, and that's where regulation and stuff comes in, just like, you know, alcohol.

We had moonshine. It was the white people getting killed. all that. You made it legal. You regulated it. Now most people, what? They go to the store to buy it. Alcohol is the worst drug on earth. It really is. I didn't think about alcohol. That's a fair point with the moonshine and everything back in the day before it was legal. Yeah. So when they made it illegal, it caused so many problems that they made it legal again because they realized, oh, you know, what? And back then that's when, that's literally the reason that happened was because then Harry Ainslinger, since he lost going after alcohol, he had to find something to go after. he was a super racist so he went after weed like his quotes are right there like you know they're right there on the internet you can see what he said about it um but he was saving his agency because

they took alcohol away from him so the only thing that enough people in america did that he could go after drug wise was marijuana but going back to the alcohol you got to think like you know i bartended i sold weed it's not even close you you worked up you own a club probably i like it would would you say that things that happened at your club is what put like any kind of spotlight on you, like events? Well, I would, so the club never had anything to do with why I went to prison, but there were situations

that brought more heat to me like selling liquor without a permit or kids would just come drunk or on drugs, but it was never weed, weed makes me... I'm not talking about weed. I'm not talking about weed. I'm talking about alcohol. I'm talking about... Alcoholics makes you brutally. I've seen the worst. Exactly. I've been very

drunk. I'd rather, and I used to be very anti-weed. And now I love doing, you know, the Tyson edibles. I'll do those every night and they help me sleep. But you're, like, raised by your teachers and stuff to weed is bad, you know, this and that. Yes. But alcohol, I feel worse on alcohol. Unless I take, like, a lot of milligrams of weed, then I'll be a little, like, weed hung over the next day.

But alcohol, I can't function. I can't do anything. And you've got to think, like, a lot of the arguments they're using for all, you know, there's a book called, chasing the screen by Johan Hari, amazing book. It's more like a statistical, like story-based argument of legalizing drugs, like how the war on drugs started and all that. But in the book it talks about like, you know, basically they have a scale where drugs are assigned a score of how bad they are.

And alcohol is like a 72 and meth is like a 45. And you think of like meth and heroin is terrible. And they can be, but like for instance, like meth, the real problem with meth is long-term staying, like, if you stay awake for seven days, it doesn't matter whether you did meth or whatever it is that made you stay awake for seven days, you're gonna be crazy.

Like, staying awake, like, it's really the, like, being awake for that long. And I'm not telling people to go to meth at all. What I'm saying is, is that alcohol, within a matter of minutes, you can commit a, you can commit a heinous crime and have no idea you did it.

You know what I mean? Like, you're talking about people kill their wives, don't remember, because they were drunk and, you know, in a blackout, beat her to, death, they don't remember. Like, literally, they're going to spend the rest of their life in prison for something they didn't remember. And as a society, we just accept it. We're like, oh, well,

you know, alcohol is legal? Why? Because Jesus turned water into wine. Like, why is that the one that we just accept as a society? So when you take what we accept as a society of alcohol and then compare it to other drugs, it's like, so we're not, like, the give and take. Like, we're not willing to accept what? Like, and there's a lot of studies right now. It's like the alcohol industry is hurting from legalization of weed because a lot of people are exactly what you just said. Oh, wow, I've done a lot of crazy messed up stuff on alcohol and I feel terrible the next day. But man, if I take this edible at night, I sleep real good. I wake up.

I'm happy. If I take a little extra edible on the weekend, I'm laughing a little bit more with my wife. So people, it's it. But none of that, like you don't eat that Tyson edible if Edwin Rubis isn't in prison for 40 years. Yeah. Does that make sense? No, I get it. And, like, I'm not a nightclub person, but if I were to go to a club for anything, I'd rather have an edible.

Yeah. Than someone drive than me get alcohol. And it's cheaper. You get a 10-pack of edibles. And you only need one to have a good time that night for like $30. Yep. And to have a good time at the club, you're spending like $80, $90, $100. Oh, yeah.

That's a cheap club. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, clubs are crazy. And just, and, you know, bartending and, like, especially me being, like, I was always the male bartender. So anytime, like, people start getting aggressive or people, like, I'm always the one having to deal with people who are angry, aggressive, like, you know, like on the verge of, like, you know, pretty much it's like I probably should have called the cops, but you come to my bar all the time. So I know you. So I don't want to have to do this.

But, and it's just, you know, like the easy part of my, like, when I was bartending and selling weed, it was like, I was so happy on the days that I could just sit at home and smoke. and have my friends come over and smoke weed together and sell them some weed as opposed to to go to my job at a bar and have to deal with telling people like, hey, you can't drink anymore, you've had too much. Just, you know, that's something that's like people are, like they always blame the bar.

They're like, oh, well, you should have cut them off? Like, have you ever tried to cut off someone who's drunk when they don't want to be cut off? Like, it's not, like, this is not a pleasant experience trying to cut people off from alcohol. So, you know, I just... It's it. Yeah, you could go down a big rabbit hole in the pros and the cons, where it started from, and everything like that.

So you got those five years. Where do they send you first? And do you self-surrender? Yeah, I self-surrender to the camp in Edgefield, South Carolina. South Carolina. What was that camp like going into prison your first time? So I got a little lucky because I was out on pre-trial two years before I self-surrendered, right? Because I took that loan for my case to go through.

And they put me in like a drug class that was essentially just, to make sure that I was, you know, like around for those, that time. But I actually learned a lot because there was other guys in the class that had been to prison. And me, like, you know, that's something I realized, like, before I even went to prison and then much more in prison, that prison is really cultural in the sense of, like, the people that I know, like, knew whatever. I was the only person who's been to prison or had to, like, I didn't know anybody. But then when I got in that class, I realized like, oh, okay, I'm going to be all right. Like these guys have been to prison. They experienced prison.

They're able to explain prison in the sense of, and if you're someone that is about to serve time, when you're listening to this podcast, you wonder what prison's going to be like. And I think that you can probably relate to is as bad as it is, once you get into your, like, daily routine and have the guys that you chill with and you're like it's really just hanging out with your bros all day every day as long as you can find like a little bid to get into that you're not putting yourself on anybody's radar i i always tell people i i rode through as a consumer like if the if the portaricans are making cheese sticks on the third floor i'm going to go pay a book and buy the the cheese sticks from the portaricans hang out with them what's up bro um if the black guys are

from New York or making pininis on the second floor. Like, then I'm gonna, you know what I mean? Like, and when you do that and you just cool with everybody and I guess to being in prison for weed is just kind of like different to in the sense of not being a chomo and then also not being like a crazy white boy on like the white boy time that white guys are on, which if that was thinking of four takes like all the white guys are like, oh, you got to join our car. I'm like, bro, you guys are the ones that owe two stores out to two different people.

You're about to get beat up on Thursday. I know why you want me to join the white car. It's the young white guys, though. It's not the old one. Yeah, exactly. The old white guys, like, they're part of the white car, but they're not having that. They're just like, this is ridiculous. Yeah, this is ridiculous.

Yeah, this is ridiculous. Yeah, this is ridiculous. Yeah, it's a young ones that got caught up in a RICO or a gun case and they're there. And they're just moving like crazy. They have no money. No money. And they're borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. They're on drugs.

You know, they do not give a shit. Yeah. And they're always the ones that are like, no, we got to ban together. It's like, no, you want me to have to like pay for to not end up in a gang more. Like, no, you're on your own on that. So Fortix is a low. How did you get from a camp to a low? Did you do something to get in trouble?

Okay. So basically I was on cell phone. I got caught. I got caught. I got caught. It was at the beginning of COVID. And my sister had added me to this like first step back group page on Facebook. And, you know, someone got on there and was like, the BOP is saying that,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And when I read this, it was like five minutes after our unit manager had just came in and given us a spiel about what was about to happen with COVID, and it was completely different than what this person is saying. So I got on there and I'm like, okay, well,

I'm in Edgefield, South Carolina right now, and this is what our unit manager just said, right? And I didn't think anything of it because I was, like, I was wilding on Instagram. Like, I had created this count called, like, prison daddy, and I'd gain like 3,200 followers in like 52 days or something like that. And it was awesome. Like I'm like, hell yeah.

Like I'm just into my, I'm about a year into my bed. I got two, three years left. But like everybody on the internet's hitting me up. I'm going live with like a playboy bunny girl. Like just all this awesome stuff. I'm like, yeah, this is cool. And so I'm, but I'm, and they're not coming and getting me. I'm like, wow, I can't believe I'm getting.

I can't believe no one he's like told him. Like I'd already, I guess my two best friends, G and Eli, shout out to Eli. He did my website, Jeremy Grove writes.com. Awesome dude. G and Eli will be famous musician Wednesdays. They had left me. Like, they got caught on the phone. And I guess once they left, I was like, I kind of got to the point, honestly, where I was kind of ready for a new phase of my bid.

So I just was whiling out to the point of like I knew I was eventually going to get caught. But I just didn't want to be in Edgefield anymore. Like, and so I was going crazy like that. I didn't think that me commenting on this Facebook group was going to be the thing. But it makes sense now that I know more about the BOP. It's like they don't care what you do as long as you don't criticize them. So I guess when I said that, there's some plant in that Facebook group that immediately like sent it to them. So the next morning they came, they're like, we saw what you posted on Facebook yesterday.

I'm like, oh my God, really? That's the one. You guys don't look. And then like I said, I was in there for a week. Right. And then I finally get another Sally. The door opens. It's the kid that was like upstairs from me and he got there for going viral on TikTok.

Like they would walk by and be like our unit manager who was like this serious like asshole, ex-military. Like he was the kind of person who was trying to write you shots for not having your six inch fold on your bed. Like that kind of like guy. He comes around. He's like, nice dance moves. I saw the video. Pretty funny. It's like

So he And his name's Prison Burkin on Instagram Mitch He's a He learned While he was in the shoe with me Um

They were giving us oranges every morning And he would save all the oranges Because they weren't edible They were like green and like whatever And he learned how to juggle So he would see he would be sitting there juggling like six Six oranges in our like cell I'm like I can't believe I'm in the cell with a circus freak

Like what are you doing? Why do you guys? going live in prison. Like I see it all the time. And when I was in prison, they went live too. Yeah. Obviously, TikTok wasn't as big as it is now because COVID blew that up and I was in prison before.

But guys would go live and they would be on FaceTime and stuff. What do you think is the psychology behind that? Why do you guys like doing that? I 100% know what it is. 100%. It's because you feel like the world forgot about you. You know what I mean? And the thing about it is like,

Kind of going back to like the message to people that might be going back into prison is though everyone else treats you as if you kind of like died or like don't exist anymore other than maybe like the people who email you every day like your close family members and stuff but most people fall off and you got to expect that. But even the even your family members and everything, they can't really understand that you're really are like living a life in there. Like you know me and my friend. young and used to spend all day, like, getting enough books together to get a wax paper and a

cigarette so we could go smoke wax in the bathroom. And then we'd, you know, go watch TV hide and watch Stephen A. Smith every morning. Like, you know, you get into that routine, you hang out with your boys. Like, you actually are, like, smiling, laughing. I wrote a blog one time was just called smiling because I remember, like, sitting there a commissary one day and just thinking, like, you're in federal prison. It's supposed to be miserable. It's supposed to be punishment. Like, I think people on the outside just imagine. You like walking around with this ball and chan with your head down and all that and there's definitely people that choose to experience prison that way But you can also choose to not experience it that way you can choose to make it just the way your life is now

And when you when I was sitting at Commer, I'm looking around and everybody's smiling Everybody is like you know in their little group of people they know they're laughing they're cutting it up They're joking like you know it's just everything's good like they're happy and is there like an underlying maybe like sadness that everybody feels in that moment? Maybe. But in that moment, you're smiling just like you would be if you were free. You're happy just like you would be in your free. So when you take each moment and you try to be happy and live your life and just,

for me, it was really just ignoring the outside because what I realized, and that's why I say that I know that that's the answer. because when I was doing that, when I'm going live, when I'm in those moments, everything felt good because I felt like I was back in the world. Like, wow, people on the outside know I'm here. People know on the outside see me. They see I exist.

They're interested in the fact that I'm in prison. They want to see behind the scenes in prison. Like, they want to know what's going on my life. All these people on the outside, like, we're looking in again. But as soon as the phone gets taken away, they're gone because that's their only glimpse into your life. So now you're just back in prison. You know what I mean?

And so I think that appeal of like existing again in the real world, I think that's what it is. But what kind of happens, though, is it makes your life a little more depressing because you have those good moments. But in the moments you don't like, when I got the phone taken away from me, when I went to the shoe, like that that was like it's like a drug. Like being having the phone in prison. It's like a drug. That's why guys risk using the phone when there's a bad guard because say you have a good guard, especially at a camp where there's only a hundred. inmates or whatever, you have a good guard for a whole quarter, and then all of a sudden you have a bad one and you got to put the phone away, that's when guys get popped because

they're so addicted. They've got to be on it. They got to talk to their girl. They got to FaceTime. They got to do whatever they have to do. We had a guy. There was a false. His name was Foster at the camp. And he was, he was a, he was the nighttime CEO. And he always did the exact same routine, which any time a guard does that, that, what they're telling you is, is I'm not going to catch you unless you are just an idiot. Yeah, they're a sweet guy. Yeah, like, right? But what he would do, though, sometimes is he would always make this lap. And he'd always go out the door and then make the trip all the way around the fields and the, you know, the buildings that had the classes and all that kind of stuff all the way around the track, all the way around the softball field, this big loop.

Which means that the time he walks out the door, everyone's yelling, coming up, coming up, coming up. So you have a solid 10 minutes to get your stuff together. And then he would come up and he'd walk through, but sometimes he would just pick someone's room and just sit there. He would just sit in their room. So all the guys, like, you know, everyone would kind of be like, hey, you know, he's in here, he's in here. But almost every time he did it,

somebody would just not, like, they would just think they'd be like, oh, it's been a while, he's got to be gone. They'd go get on their phone, be sitting in the room. He'd get back up, walk around, and find somebody just sitting there on their phone. They'd be like, oh, man, I thought he left. Like, bro, they never clear. Like, you know, they call it. Like, once they yell coming up, the lookout doesn't go back until they call it clear that he's, you know, back in the thing.

And like, no one calls it. But guys will just kind of be like, oh, I must have missed it. Like, they almost like talk themselves into it's fine because, like you said, they're so addicted to it. They can't realize that it's like, no, I, like, I literally have to wait until this guard goes down. They can't do it. They're like. Ellie's Eden, part of Azure standard, was created for people who care about. being thoughtful with what they buy, what they eat, and where it comes from.

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Yeah. It really is like that. So you get putting the shoe after getting caught. Mm-hmm. Is that when they send you to Fort Dix after that? Yeah. So, like, I originally got designated to Ashland, Kentucky, but the shoe was, like, you know, it was COVID. Like, no transit.

No, like, nothing was going on. They wouldn't even take us out to wreck, so I was in a cell 24 hours a day because they had showers in the solid edgefield. So you never left. But there's no radios. No radio and no book. books, magazines, newspapers could get sent in, and no radio. So all you had was the book cart once a week. And they were like strict about it where only you and your cellie, like you could each get one book.

So obviously it's like both of you were like, okay, you get that book, I'll get this book. So because you're both going to have to read it. That's right. You both are one book in one day though. I know. And I do. Like I'm like that kind of reader. Have you ever read Shantram by?

No. It's an amazing. It's like a 900 page book. I read that three times. because that was like the one I it was a somebody had sent it to me um that had met me on the internet I was like oh you need to read this but when I got it I'm like it's a 900 page book like I'm not going to read that anytime soon but as soon as I went to the shoe and they were bringing my property I was like that big giant book I need that one and it ended up being the best book

I've ever read but um like the shoe oh my god it so in the shoe me and my boy um from the camp His name's T.J. And he was always the one on the range being asked like, yo, TJ, can you do, you know, whatever. So, and everybody's fishing with him. Well, he decides one day he's like, I'm not going to be called T.J. anymore. I'm not answering unless you refer to me as pussy destroyer, right?

So everybody in the shoes like, I'm not calling no grown man pussy destroyer. Fect that I'm not doing it. There's no way. Like, I'm never calling you pussy destroyer. Like, whatever. So then, you know, yo, TJ, shoot your line down.

We need to do. No answer. Yo, Jeremy. Can you call TJ? See if he's asleep. I'm like, yo, he told you he's not answering you unless you call him pussy destroyer. They're like, we're not calling him pussy destroyer. I'm like, hey, pussy destroyer.

He immediately, he's like, what? So the whole rest of the time we're in the shoe, he's pussy destroyer. And I was, at first I was big germ, just because I'm big, and my name's Jeremy. Then I, in the shoe, I just grew out my hair and my beard. Like I didn't, so I became big perm germ. And then one time I was talking about these crazy long-term plans. So then I became long-term big-perm germ. So every night in the shoe, like this was like almost like what you're doing, like podcast style, right?

After 1030 count, which you know in prison, like you were not supposed to be making noise after 10.30. We'd get under the door And I'd go Pussy Daster Royer And then he would go Long-term Big Perm germ

Like wrestling You know what I mean? And then we would start talking shit to each other About other dudes in the range And like their nicknames Like we had Bustle the Muscle And you know like all these different characters We would talk about like what their matchup would be like in the cage.

Just just and the whole range would be laughing. And we'd keep telling these like same like the one dude, Kyle, we call him chicken dick, because we were going on a hunger strike, right? It's hot. Like the one side of the range, the air conditioning broke. It's like 95 degrees, middle of summer during COVID. And so we decided to go on a hunger strike. Breakfast comes.

Everyone's like, ah, fuck that. You know, they have to mark it down, right? Lunch gets there. all the first like fuck that like so the guy's just rolling down like mark in the like whatever gets halfway down the rannings our boy kyle who was like you know we went to the camp with him we're talking shit with them every night tray opens food goes in like what is wrong with you he's like so he just not he doesn't answer like for like days he's not answering so finally like we're just roasting him we're like yeah well Kyle took the fucking chicken like what's wrong with you we were gonna we were gonna like you know like we were ever going to

change what they were going to do with COVID. Like, you know what I'm saying? But he became like the person to blame of like now why everything sucks is because Kyle took the chicken, even though it's like, it just sucked anyway, but it became Kyle took the chicken. So one time he's like, he's like, he's like, you know what? I'm sick of you guys.

It's like always bringing up that I took the chicken. I love chicken. It's chicken day. It's the one day I look forward to. I love everything about the chicken. And this guy, uh, big country. He's Big Sandy right now. Hell.

He goes, even the dick. He said he loved every part of the chicken. So he became chicken dick. So he was chicken dick, Kyle, right? So we're calling him chicken dick. And all these guys would always, like, send him notes. Like, you can't let them call you chicken dick. That's like degrading you.

Like, you know how prison is? Like, they're not respecting you all that shit. But it's like, we're all in the shoe. Like, nobody can do nothing. Like, all there is is talking. So, uh, So he gets mad. So we tell him, all right, listen, the only way you cannot be chicken dick anymore is when the next time it's chicken day, you got to take the tray, throw it at the guard and say, I don't want to be chicken dick anymore.

So he does it. And you got to think, like, we're in the shoe. There's nothing exciting. So we all know that this is this plan on like a Thursday. So like everybody's up on the door. Everybody's like wait. Like everybody's like, like, wait, like, you know, and the guard has no idea. And luckily, it happened to be the guard everyone hated.

Like, he was just the one that, like, we just, oh, my God, he was such a dickhead. He was the guy. You know what his problem was? He'd walk through at 6th in the morning at breakfast and just talk loud, like, wake everybody up on, like, you know how breakfast is. Like, a lot of guys are not trying to wake up. No one's trying to, like, he's just being loud on purpose, just to be a dickhead. So the flap opens and Kyle just throws the chicken. He's like, what the fuck?

They fucking rip him out, take him to the fucking box, all that shit, just so we wouldn't call him chicken dick anymore. It was like, me and my boy T's today we still talking about this day. We're like, no one else during, because a lot of people were stuck in the shoe during COVID all over the feds. But no one had as much fun in the shoe as we did at Edgefield. Because every single night, we made sure everyone was laughing and having a good time. Yeah, that's really all you got. That's all you got.

You have to talk in between the cells and the vents and everything like that. Like I said, I wrote that whole article, like, because Sean was in a cell, you know, you rotate every 21 days, but you're not necessarily rotating the same as somebody else. So a lot of times you're with, you know, you're next to somebody for a week or the next time you might be three weeks and the next time I'd be two days. So I was next to him for like two days, two weeks. And I'm talking about every day in the vent with my legal pad, like writing down every little thing about his story and all that. Like, it's amazing like what you can accomplish in something where it's like when people see like what a shoe cell looks. like, you're like, okay, you're not doing anything with your life. Half the size of this room.

Yeah. You're like, you're not doing anything with your life in there. It's like, yeah, you can literally make your life in there. You could also go crazy. You can. You really have to prepare your mind because once you get in there, it's like, it's very claustrophobic. And you just kind of go crazy because you don't know what the time is. And it just, but once you get through, I think the first week, it's okay.

One of my favorite things to do, and I still, like, I have a whole list of guys I was in the shoe with. And every, like, whenever, whenever I get the least bit, like, down or I just feel like, you know, like whatever with my life, I go and order one of them a copy of my book because I wrote it while I was in there with them. And like, I always said it's like a group, like the shoe during COVID was like a group message you can't leave. Like, no matter whether you involved in the group message or not, you were having to read every message. Like, you definitely knew what was going on in the group message. Like, you weren't ignoring the fact that like chicken dick was getting ridiculed every single day. Just, you know, all like, we just,

It was, it was like we, I really feel like, and guys said it too. Guys would like, they're basically like, you know, you made that work like better for us. Like just being able to take a situation and make the best of it. Because it's just like what else are you going to, like you said, like you really can go crazy. Like, and you just have to make the choice of just keep your personality, keep laughing, keep, you know, just keep fighting through it. accomplish things, like make it the best experience of your life. It really has to be. If it's not the best experience of your life, it's definitely going to be the worst.

Were guys getting sick in there too because of COVID in the shoe? So that was the crazy thing. Like the whole time we're in the shoe, they're telling us like, oh, don't worry, you're safer in here than you are out there, blah, blah, blah. And we're just thinking like, okay, but if you all die, like, who's coming and opening the door? But the other thing about it was is just like, they, like, they kept telling us that. So then they finally

get us to Atlanta, which did you go through Atlanta transit at all in your travels? No, I went to Oklahoma City. Well, I spent a month in Oklahoma too. It's brutal. Brutal. Were they smoking Mad Deuce there? Somewhat. It was a lot of like, you know,

cartel guys that were heading to Texas, like maximum security prisons. That's what it was, you know, face tattooed and everything else. And the white guys are the minority, but they can't really do anything to you because there's no paperwork or anything in these. Oh, see, see, you, see, you went through Oklahoma, though, non-COVID.

I didn't, see, like, we only got five cells got out at a time for 30 minutes at a time, five days a week. Yeah, we were open all day. Yeah, so it was only five cells getting out at a time. So it wasn't the same, like, that's a very, very, very different scenario being in an open dorm in Oklahoma. I can see why that would be scary. Yeah, it's, it's, it was. crazy and I was at the end of my

that was the last time I was in transit because then from there I went to actually no I went to Chicago after that and then I was in Chicago for two weeks MDC and then I finally went to Wisconsin for the last year but being in transit sucks everything about that sucks I think being in the two man cells it was the worst

oh yeah just being locked in a cell like just like the fact that I'm comfortable like taking a shit in front of another man like it's just like the degrading nature of like literally every time you you know, well, because at least when you were in Oklahoma, it was like you were out. So if you took a shit, you could just probably pull your door shut and be by yourself. I always tried to wait until, you know, it was the next morning.

I mean, there were instances in the beginning, you know, where you got to go. But I tried to always wait. Well, no, I'm saying, I'm saying when you're in the shoe, like, when you're locked in the shoe, like, like, I was like, there's no, like, you're in the, you have to. You have a choice. Yeah, unless it goes to wreck in the morning. I would always skip rec. Oh, okay. You skip rec.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. in COVID. That was it. You were doing that. So you did 11 months in solitary. Basically. So I did 8. Well, I always call it 11 because I did 8 at Edgefield.

Then I did 2 in Atlanta. But Atlanta at that point was Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 20 minutes out of the cell to shower, phone. Like, you only had 20 minutes. And you had to pick between shower, phone line, or email. That's it. Three days a week. And then it was also subject to like just whenever they felt like, oh, well, we can't do it today. We're not going to do it.

So there was definitely times where we'd go Monday to Monday, not getting out of the cell, no shower. And they didn't give you anything but the jumpsuit and the boxers. Like no clothes other than... They really put you through torture for something that's nonviolent. Like for a phone, you know? Oh, absolutely. Literally the phone thing is ridiculous. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Well, I know now they're giving tablets like you go on social media. That's a really good thing too because, you know, I've always felt like that, like, if guys had the option of tablets, the cell phone thing would be less of a thing. You've got to be a... It's in this, like, the concept they're trying to say, like, rehabilitation and stay in touch with your family. Like, you've got to be able to FaceTime with your kids in 2024. Like, things like that. They're monitored, all that kind of thing.

The tablets are a no-brainer. They should have been done that. Even social media, you know. I think you're taking away sex from them. You're taking away, like, those freedoms. Is there any way? I can go to the bathroom. Yeah, you can take a bathroom. Okay.

All right. All right. So you get, um, you do the 11 months between transit and at the camp. Then you end up at Fort Dix. Yeah, I end up at Fort Dix in 20. in February of 2021. And so we get to, we get to, like I said, for 11 months, we've been told, like, you're better off where you are because of COVID and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And that's why you're lacking us out. So they put us all on a plane, take us to Fort Dix, and it was, oh, my gosh. Like, what a, what a, it's such a crazy time in your bid when you're in transit because there's part of you that's excited because you're seeing. the real world. Like there's, you know, like, obviously the first thing you're like, oh my God, I see, could just see tits for the first time in forever, you know? Even when you're, like, driving by a girl that's like hot. Everybody's like, ah, look at that. There's hot girl. So just everyone knows when you see a jail bus drive by, that is like flash your tits, okay?

Well, the fed ones are indiscreet. They look like sports buses. It's the orange stripe and the white stripe or whatever on it. Basically, if you see a bus, just flash. Just in case. Let the guys have a little fun. Anyway. So, but, but, Like being shackled, like, oh my gosh. Like that, that, and I'm so glad I wasn't a black boxer. Because that, that is crazy. But, but you're so, it's like, part of you is excited because, you know, it's something new. And in prison, you don't get a lot of that.

But the being shackled and just, you know, spending from about, they shackle you about four or five in the morning. And then we didn't get to Fort Dix until, it didn't on shackle us until 10 o'clock at night. you know what I mean and just having that on the whole time you're trying to eat like the little boxed like which I mean I guess it was probably the least hungry I've ever been in my life really that day like the nerves and just everything going through you but trying to eat airplane boxes like shackled and all that is definitely a crazy experience but it was it was so exciting to finally see the end of 11 months of being locked in a cell and ending up a four dicks so we get to Fort Dix and

when you were there was 58 was Ardap Oh you were on the other side Well you go to the west side first So Ardap was the A&O building Okay

Where you stay that first week Until you get shipped to the other side Okay yeah okay so the first So the first week they had us in that building Right there across from commissary Yep that's where I was Yep so they put us in there on the third floor Well

there's like two dudes this dude Josh and Jeremy like his name was also Jeremy and TJ so I'm still with TJ still pussy destroyer Plissy Destroyer and long term big perm term we're still together

so we're and you know we're like the four of us are playing cards every day together like you know we're all hanging out the Josh dude he was going to be at four decks for a while we were designated to the same unit so I'm like okay we're going to be friends

you know all that kind of thing and then four days later they come in they take them because they tested positive for COVID when they got there. And now at this point, I'm sick. So they come and test me, they take me out of there. So for 11 months, I'm being kept in

a cage because I'm being kept safe from COVID. And then the second they let me out, they give me COVID. I'm like, wow. Like, you could have just given me COVID 11 months ago and just let me go. But I feel like a lot of people feel that way about, like, COVID is a very controversial issue.

And to be honest with you, this is what it was absolutely terrible to be in prison during COVID. And as much as people try to say like, oh, well, we were in prison out here, no, you weren't. And everybody in prison was in much worse prison for years after COVID because it took a lot. It's really taken into it now for really a lot of the restrictions and things to come off. But that being said, like COVID, that like try the logistics of trying to, um, deal with a disease in a prison setting, there just isn't like a way.

There's there was no, there's no way to keep a disease like that from spreading in that environment. It just, it is, you know, I understand that it's like you're required to like do everything you kind of stop it, but there's just no logical way to do it. There's, like it's not, you know,

obviously everybody in there's complaint. I'm like one of those people where it's like, okay, like I understand we're all not happy. But what is the solution? Like what, like, what can you come up with where it's like, okay, in a perfect world, we do this. And then there just isn't one. And it's like, we're all in prison. It's a disease that gets spread from air.

Like, what are you going to do? There's just no way to, there's just no way. So anyway, I get COVID when I get there, which put me in 58, 11, because that was the, that was like the unit where, because what they were doing then is like they would just put everybody that had COVID in the same unit. So now we're all have COVID. But then once we got off quarantine, which means like the cases look is whatever, like they're testing you every day, all this stuff. All these numbers changed every day. Like everything about COVID changed every day. The rules, the way it was enforced, like whether they cared, didn't care.

You still had like there was a guy at the end of our, you know, end of my vid. This is January of 2020. he would still like stand it like we called him the put your mask on guy he was like in the cafeteria and would just like you're eating food and he would be like you have to have your mask on like any time you're not eating food it's like so you walk in you're in line you have to keep it on you sit down and then you can only take it down while you eat and then you have to put it up while you're chewing it's like what in the world that's like on airplanes what people's out west that's what they want you to do Look, how do you do this?

So anyway, it was, that whole experience was it. Give us, like, a great, like, crazy story from Fort Dix. Okay, Fort Dix. Like, your top one from your time there. Well, on a bad note was definitely, like, the prison got real to me. Because Fort Dix, like, at the camp, there was no violence, really at all. But one of my best friends at Fort Dix, like, he was getting his haircut. And the guy came up and stabbed him in the eye.

and then he was running around the unit, like trying to get someone to give him a knife with the knife still in his eye. So it was literally like a horror movie. Like I'm talking about blood just like going down his face. And like he just looked crazy like and he's just like, someone give me a knife and we're just like, no? Like, you know what I mean?

Like it's like what? And it was crazy. It took him. It took him up. And the guards, the guards were out on the, on the track talking. So there was no guard in the building. and nobody wanted to be the one to like yell out to the guard that someone had gotten stabbed.

But he's like, like, you know, he's literally bleeding everywhere. Like, oh my gosh, there was blood on every floor of the... Why do you get stabbed? Cell phone, like, something about, um... Cell phone. Like, he didn't even... The guy, I guess the guy thought he was trying to steal the phone, but he wasn't. And it turned out, it turned out that like it was all like a misunderstanding is really what

it turned out. It was all just a misunderstanding. And like basically, I think somebody had rented the phone and then he had used the phone and like logged in his Facebook. And then so his Facebook was on the guy's phone. And then somebody else tried to like steal it. And then when the guy got it back, he saw that the Facebook was logged in and thought that he had tried to steal it.

But it wasn't. It was just his Facebook had stayed logged in from before kind of situation. Like something like that. So yeah, it's what ended up happening to him? So he was in. in the shoe. Uh, he was in the shoe. Well, first he got like airlifted out of there. Um, they said that, you know, the, the, the thing was literally a millimeter away from killing him. Like, that's how far, yeah. Um, okay, so here's another crazy thing about it, though, is, uh, he's, he's, like, super into, like, Santa Ria and crazy stuff, like, that kind of thing. And, um,

he had told me, like, a week or two before, um, that he knew, um, that he knew, he was going to only have one eye. And then like a week later he got stabbed through the eye. And I was just like, okay, that's, that's, that's wild. Yeah. Yeah, like Fort Dix is a, it's definitely a big economy. It's very chill, but it can also, because you're mixing with so many violent people too. See what, what was happening at the end is they, since Biden closed the private prisons,

which is where all the Mexican gang... The ice person. Yeah, the ice person. They closed them down those private prisons, which were basically all that. So Fort Dix got flooded. Like, when I first got to 12, the Mexican TV room had like a Puerto Rican

and a Venezuelan who would sit there and, you know, hang out. Like, there was no Mexicans. And then by the time I left, every single day, all day long was like a fiesta in that thing. They had tables. They got the spreads. out. They were like, and then while I when I want to, and that's one of the reasons

when I went to Ardap, I went because like at night you could hear people ripping like metal off the walls and like sharpen and stuff. And like things were getting real tense in there because essentially now the Mexicans were taking over

an economy that was ran by the people that had been running it at Fort Dix forever. And now all of a sudden like the having the Mexicans come in, now they're outnumbered. numbering any one group. You know what I mean? And they're just coming.

You know how Fort Dix's is like whatever like your things is. Like that's your thing and no one's really allowed to like step in on that. Whether it's selling deuce or hoot or like whatever. And the Mexicans were just coming in and just selling everything cheaper. Like and it was and you could just and that's that's what happened after I let like when I went to Fort Dix. Like my like 58 12 like someone got killed like like. How many discounts does USAA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here.

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Terms apply. Yeah, it got real bad. It became like a war zone. It was really, it was more, it was, it was bad. Crazy. So how long do you end up doing four years on the five? Yeah, I self-surrendered March of 2019, and I got out January. of 2023.

And you're still on supervised release now? I am, but I should be getting off of probation soon. I'm not applied for early release off of probation. And my probation officer said they're not going to fight it, so I should be able to get off early. Are they cool with, like, travel and everything like that? Yeah, I mean, like, you know, he knows what I do. And he's, you know, he's, like, he's a reasonable person.

You know, as long as I follow the rules that are set in front of me, he's a reasonable human being. I think, you know, whatever people, the issue like what I the way I see it is like what I went to prison for is a young and old like weed is more of a young old thing than a red white or like republic or police or not police like people that are young like even if they don't smoke weed or they can't because of their job or whatever they also like have friends that do all the time so they're certainly not like passionately like trying to put you back in prison because you know you're pro weed um and also you know it's

just they know I'm not selling weed anymore which is really the only thing that I was doing illegal is, you know, like we talked about earlier. I was making the personal choice to break a law. But on a macro scale, if nobody breaks that law, it'll never get changed. Yeah. What do they think about, like, probation officers think about you guys going to do podcasts and stuff? Because this is, like, a new world for them.

Honestly, like, he's pretty for it. Like, he thinks it's cool that I think, like, I got that kind of impression he thinks, like, he's happy that, I think, like, I have a, my probation officer is a good person. who is happy. I think he's he seems like he's genuinely happy that I'm doing well in life and making a difference and being someone who got out of prison and is changing the world for a better. And having those probation officers are huge. Absolutely. Because there are shitty ones. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, he, I 100% feel like both of them because I've had two. They both treated me like a person. They both understood the things I went to prison for, my beliefs.

You know, they also have kept the rules that they're required to keep, but they've never been, you know, a dick for any reason or overly anything. They're, you know, they're just good, you know, people that do their job. I'm, you know, obviously, like, I would never choose that job. But if that's your job, you should do it to the way you do it. And they do a good job to me. They don't really mess with me much. I'm able to do what I need to do. What do you think are the biggest takeaways you want people to learn?

from your story. That you don't have to have your story be what everyone else thinks it should be. Your story is your story and you should be proud of your story however you experience and whatever you believe in. And you shouldn't, you gotta be careful not to impart your own judgment on morality. Like one of the Pussy Destroyer, words of wisdom. is like morality is subjective, which can be a controversial thing to say. But in reality, it's just, it is reality.

Like, my example with that is, like, if you go to the Middle East, like, what isn't acceptable based on their moral standards is drastically different than in America. Now, does my own moral standard much more align with an American normal standard? Of course. but that doesn't mean that I'm right or they're wrong or everything because that's all in the eye of the beholder based on your own perspective and your own morality. So I think that people should whatever like it is that you feel like you're put on earth for this purpose, once you have that moment where you look inside of yourself and you find what your purpose is, don't let anybody talk you out of it because that's what you're here for. And it doesn't have to be anyone else's, and it doesn't have to be what everyone else thinks you should do. Well, said.

Well, Jeremy, thank you so much for coming today, man. Thanks, you too. Yeah, it was great to talk to you. Love your energy and, you know, keep on rocking, doing what you're doing. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. You got to check out that video that me and Travis did. Yeah, he sent it to me.

I'll check that out. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. We did a lot of, like, man on the street type interviews, you know, asking people if they knew people were in prison that long. But yeah, it's been great. Yeah, I appreciate it. Hell yeah.