Locked In with Ian Bick - The Harsh Reality of Surviving in a Federal Penitentiary Exposed By Ex Inmate | William Kitarogers

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Journey into the unforgiving world of a federal penitentiary through the eyes of a former inmate who unveils the brutal realities of prison life. From navigating dangerous politics and surviving violent encounters to coping with isolation and maintaining sanity, this raw and unfiltered account sheds light on the true struggles of surviving behind bars. Discover the harsh truths, the daily battles, and the resilience required to endure life in a federal prison. This eye-opening narrative offers a rare and compelling glimpse into the often hidden and harsh realities of the American prison system Thank you to our sponsors this week: HelloFresh: For FREE breakfast for life go to https://www.hellofresh.com/freelocked for One free breakfast item per box while subscription is active. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with William Kitarogers: https://www.instagram.com/kittsfree/ https://www.tiktok.com/@kittsfree  @MillionDollarFitness  Facebook: William Kitarogers Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:04:54 - The Influence of My Older Brother 00:09:36 - Reflecting on Personal Choices in Prison 00:14:39 - A Turning Point in Prison 00:19:29 - Prison Experiences and Reunion with Brother 00:24:13 - Prison Culture 00:28:27 - Gang Rules and Regulations 00:32:57 - The importance of showing unity and camaraderie 00:37:23 - Life in the Penitentiaries 00:42:18 - Car Dynamics in Prison 00:47:10 - Hierarchy 00:52:03 - The Role of Speakers in Prison Culture 00:57:06 - Prison Hustles 01:02:04 - Life in McQuary Penitentiary 01:07:08 - Life Lessons from Prison 01:12:23 - Realizing the Power of Change Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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hey, a lot of you guys aren't going to make it, but there's only one way you guys are going to make it. Got a Rambo knife like the size of my forearm stabs in the table. He's like, hey, either get one of these and don't get caught with it or go ahead and tell my officers that you need to go with them. I'm like, holy, all the stories they tell me about that is real. Kit, welcome to Lockton, man. Here from Missouri, you might be our first Missouri resident. I might have to fact check that, but I'm pretty sure you are. That's awesome. Yeah, Kansas City.

Shout out to Kansas City. Kansas City Chief, Super Bowl champs. Trying to get that dynasty, man. And you're very fresh out of prison. You're still on probation now or supervised release because you are a federal case. Yeah. And you got out 19 months ago. Yep, November 1st of 2022.

Did you ever think you'd be sitting on a podcast sharing your story about prison and why you went? No, man, like I told you earlier, it was when I left, it was MySpace. So coming out and seeing all this technology, it's just, it's amazing. Yeah, that's awesome, man. Yeah. How long was the trip to get out here? You took a plane? We flew in New York and stayed up there for it and just did some touristy stuff and

seen some things up there and walked 20 miles in two days. It was awesome. You probably got some blisters on your feet. But it was like an, I think it was like an hour and 20 minute drive out here or so, but not too bad. And first time in the city? Yeah, first time. That's awesome. It's cool when guests are able that are fresh out of prison, get to come out here and get to make a little mini vacation out of it and explore.

Yeah. No, it was, it's amazing. I never thought I would be in New York. Yeah. Yeah, you don't necessarily have to come back right away with New York. It's like a one and done type thing. It's kind of overhyped. Yes, it is.

But it was cool. First time experience. And it's a blessing, man. Absolutely. And thank you for the incredible gift. You brought us one of those pop items. I'll throw it up on the screen when I edit this. But it's a ho-ho.

Which if you're in federal prison, you know how special those hostesses are. Yes. And they rotate every commissary. They always have that one of the week. Yeah, one of the week trying to get it. Those are, what is the best one? Is it the ho-ho's? It's different for different facilities you're at.

But yeah, I would have to say the hostess. is probably the best. And then there's like the rare ones that only come out during the holidays that people kind of hold all year. Like the Christmas trees are good zebra cakes. Zebra Christmas trees? Yeah. Love them.

What do you think was the worst one? I would probably have to say for me, oatmeal cream pies. Oh, I love those. Oh, man. You know those are a hot commodity. Yes. Dunkin sticks are the high commodity where we was at. What is that?

The nutter? The Dunkin sticks. It's like the little donut stick with the glazed on it. Oh, we didn't have those. Oh, you see different things for different facilities. I know unpopular opinion, but I wasn't a fan of the nutty butter. Oh, yeah. It was just too crunchy, but everyone loves it.

Everybody. Yeah. And like the Star Crunch. Everybody wanted it, they didn't have it. Those are gross. Oh, man. And it's like, you know, if a guy shows up from a different facility, he's got different stuff from their different commissary and his and they're selling a honey bun for $10.

I'm like, $10 stamps. Like, man, but everybody's buying it like nothing. I remember they had an overflow of Star Crunches at the camp. They stopped selling the other ones, and they were mark those down, like something cheap to get all those. Man. Yeah, that and the chips. I posted, I don't know if you follow me on Facebook, but I had those chips. Those are a classic.

That's going viral. Oh, the whole shebang? Yeah, that's going viral on Facebook. I was like, if you know, you know, and now everyone can relate because that's strictly prison. Strictly prison. And like I see a lot of things that's like the skull candy earbuds. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've seen those.

Yeah. The head? I forgot about those. Yeah. And those are like the good headphones that have. And then like in my state they have the CL20s. Like they're kind of like not like this, but they're clear. And I've seen those and I'm like, man, those are like only things in prison. But the whole shebang chips like I don't know if you guys had the cactus any like hot spicy corn chips.

Yes. Oh, and what are the, they have the hot spicy ones and then they had the regular ones. But the hot spicy ones, those were a rare fine. Rare fine. Those were so good. They weren't at Fort Dix, but they were at the camp. Yeah. And they were at, when I went to Chicago on layover, they were like, listen, you need to stock up on Oreos because those are a rare fine.

Bring a bunch of Oreos and bring these chips and bring the shabangs and you'll make a killing. Make a killing. I'm in transit and I hit, I was lucky. I hit the commissar and I maxed out everything. And I waited two months to get those back to me, but I made a killing off of them. You got like two books of stamps for a pack of Oreos. How was stamps where you guys were at? Like 20 stamps as a book?

Yeah, a full, whatever a full book was, or is that 10 stamps? So see, some camps charge are like 10 stamps or 20 stamps for a book, so it just depends, but like 20 stamps where we were at were $8. Okay, so we were, yeah, 10 stamps was $10, but if you buy bulk, it goes to $8. And then macros is a dollar each, but if you buy bulk, they'll mark it down like you could get by 75 macros for $100 onto their thing. Because if you gamble, then it's actually worth the dollar. So if it's worth it or if you're paying for haircuts where you want to buy all these macros and they drop you off a big laundry bag, you leave it under your bed. And those Macs that are like so old, like the original max from probably like the 90s federal prison.

Just going around like money. There's no fish left in it. It's literally all oil and disintegrated and you open it off. It's like, oh my God. Yeah. It's so crazy. Are you from Missouri? Is that where you were born?

Yeah. Born in Missouri. and we moved there when I moved to where I live now like an hour from Kansas City when I was I think like 12 when my older brother got out of prison. Oh, your older brother was in prison. Kind of cliche for like the same crime sales to an undercover and then a drug deal gone bad. Wow. How much older is he than you? Like seven years. Okay, so you didn't really have that older brother figure growing up.

So were you like an only child then growing up or did you have other siblings? No, I was kind of like an only child growing up and kind of went back. and forth with mom and dad and the reason why I wanted to move with my brother is because I knew what it was like at dad's house he's kind of strict older school like you know and the street lights come on and eat your vegetables and just stuff I didn't want to do at a kid at mom's house I can ride my bike wherever I could do whatever I wanted to do but uh she was gay and I kind of needed that male figure in my life you know and I was again to that age and my brother got a prison and I just was like this is what I need and kind of for real that was like my turning point in life

and that was the worst choice I could have made because he kind of taught me at that fork in the road go right or go left, and he taught me everything to go left. And it led to my incarceration. Yeah, you make your own decisions and your own choices, but at the end of the day, like, I should have made a better choice to stay with my mom and just live with the parental advisory

and not go with my brother. He was fresh out after doing 10 years, didn't have a clue of having a 12-year-old with him. I thought I was grown, and it just all started from there. Did he do fed time too? No, just all stay in the state of Kansas. Okay, the state of Kansas.

So how old were you when you first realized what your brother did and why he was in prison and what prison even was? So I used to always see my pictures like walking out of my dad's house. He'd have pictures of him, my brother on visitation up there. And I was just like, Dad, what's it? And he would just tell, oh, it's like a workplace for my brother. Or, you know, I was just so young. and then I finally realized

oh as I started riding my bike around like hey I asked your brother you got to prison yet I'm like he's not in prison I thought he was like at a work camp or something dad said and then I would just ask different people and then my dad had a girlfriend and she was like oh no your brother's in prison he sold drugs to a guy that snitched on him an undercover and I'm like wow

and he's like yeah and he turned into sold to him and then he caught the same case why he didn't know this one was pending and drug deal gone bad turned to a robbery So he got a sales to an undercover and a robbery charge. And I'm like, here I am 35 now looking back. I'm like, man, I followed right in them same footsteps, you know? That's crazy when you think about it, right? Yeah.

You don't think about it when you're young. Like, you don't know. But when you're of age now and you look back like, dang, how did I follow in them same footsteps? I'm curious. When your parents were raising you, did they acknowledge that you had a brother, like, out in public? Or did they kind of like push him to the side because he was in prison? Were they embarrassed by it? So I don't really remember too much, but my dad, he's just an old biker guy, so he didn't really, he's always going to choose his kids over anything, you know?

So he didn't really, it was like, I wouldn't say it was swept under the rug, but it was just, like, not spoke about a lot when I was younger with my brother. And, like, my brother, like, from 12 on, raised me. And I thought it was raised me as, like, a good male figure, but come to find out, that's not what life's about is, you know, you're not supposed to be 13 years. old learn how to weigh up ounces and quarter pounds and pounds of marijuana on a scale, you know. And when you get older and you look back at it, you're this like, man, you could have guided me in a better direction, but you have to take accountability for your own actions. I chose to get the knowledge and the information and run with it, you know, so when you go

out the first day at 13 years old and you make 300 bucks, you're like, oh, wow, this is easy. You know what I'm saying? And then from your dad and your brother's friends, everybody else smoking weed, you don't even have to leave the house because everybody's just right there buying weed from you, you know? So, and then it just progresses and progresses and meet different people. And before you know it, you don't have to do nothing. You can just sell the bricks to the other guys pedaling and selling and make it easier for yourself.

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free breakfast for life by going to hellofresh.com slash free locked. You can get one free breakfast item per box while subscription is active. That's free breakfast for life just by going to hellofresh.com slash free locked. Now let's get back into this episode with Will Kidder Rogers. Do you think that if you never want to live with your brother, you never would have ended up in prison looking back on it? I would like to say no, but I feel like it might have been a different reason. I would have went to prison because, like, when I was with my mom and, like, you didn't made fun of, oh, you got two moms.

It wasn't openly acceptable back then, you know? So I was fighting all the time in school, just real angry at everything. And so it might have been a different charge, but I would have never known if I would have went to prison or not. But, I mean, I don't think so, but I'll never know. No, you're very, something I've learned about you in the short time I've met you is you're very reflective and you have a lot to reflect. on and you've definitely learned a lot. Did that hit you later on in your prison sentence?

Did that come to you recently? Did that come to you in the beginning? So it was later on in my prison sentence. I was at a death row camp in Potosi, Missouri, got in trouble at a lower level, did 23 months in a shoe, single man sale, got sent to Potosi for like a punishment. And they put me in the sale. I got like, I think I got like a little under two years before I go to the feds, finish up my time. They put me in the cell with a guy on death row, and I'm like, what the, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm about to, I got like maybe six, seven years left.

What am I doing? This guy don't got nothing to lose. So I'm sitting there, the guy at first went in the cell, he don't really want to, he don't really talk too much. He's depressed. He's sad. He'd go get a, go to pill line, come back, go to sleep. And he's like, hey, can you get some weed?

I'm like, yeah, sure. So I go out to the yard, get a couple sacks, come back in. He's like, my hands won't let me roll it up. We roll it up. I'm like, yeah, sure, roll up a joint. He's like, you want to listen to the radio? He puts on the radio, listening to M&M and start smoking, and he just starts talking. This is the most.

He's talked the whole time. And I'm like, man, he's like, hey, Kit. I'm like, what's up, buddy? He's like, man, I'm telling you don't want this for your life. I'm like, why do you say that? He's like, bro, you know how long it's been since I've put my feet on carpet? He's like, you know how long it's been since I've opened a refrigerator? And now you're just sitting there.

I'm high. you know, calm, collective, and I'm just like, man, I don't want this. I don't want to live in a concrete box with another man for the rest of my life. So as time progresses, I'm like, if I want change, only I can do it. I can't blame things on my brother. I can't blame things on my parents. I can't blame things on other people. If I want change, I have to accept responsibility and make the change as myself for my future. Only I can do it. Nobody else. So it's, it's, That death row inmate and like a lot of people be like, oh, you don't want to listen to the old heads. But when you're faced with a man that has nothing to lose, he don't care if you listen to him or not.

And he went to the, they move you to a different wing when you're time for your execution. But he had like a cancerous tumor on his lip. So with the stuff they used to execute you, it might have went with his medicine and not really executed him. So they gave him a stay of execution. but before this he's like hey man all my cellies always still all my stuff because i think i'm going to go get killed and stuff and i'm like man i'm not like that bro like i'm not so i pack all this property when they call him for his execution to go to move to the different wing from zero to 90 days you move to the different wing so when he moves down there pack all this stuff put some extra tobacco in there they had tobacco in the state

back then and then uh he puts i put some extra coffee in there he goes i'm asking the see he's up with rusty what's up with rusty they're like uh i don't know can't talk about it so i'm seeing it on the news now staff execution hopefully for rusty bucklew waiting for the last time you know how they do when the inmates get executed so i'm at work in the kitchen one day and i come back and everybody's yelling kick kit kit usually they want me to get in my eyes check the kiosm machine or do something for them and i'm trying to get in the shower and go lay down i've been up since three o'clock in the morning working so i'm like man i know that voice so i come out the next day and here comes rusty down the

walkway i'm like dang rusty what's tough buddy's like look you've seen a ghost huh and i'm like And, well, yeah, kind. I thought you were dead, buddy. He's like, no, they can't kill me. Just on real man, you know. And he's like, kid, guess what? I'm like, what, buddy? He's like, guess what I had this time?

I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, from my last meal. I had chicken fried steak. I had a banana split. I had mashed potatoes and gravy. I'm like, damn, he's like, yeah. I'm like, all right, rusty, I got to go. I catch the window.

Go outside, work out. He comes outside, and he's like, hey, Kit, I'm like, yeah, what's up? He's like, what do you think I should get this time? Like, what are you talking about, Rusty? He's like, what you think I should give for my last meal this time? I'm like, I don't know. And I took off on him.

And I'm walking a trek by myself now just like in deep thought. Like, damn, all he has to look forward to is that last meal. So, like, Rusty was like the turning point in prison. And this was probably like 2016, 17, turning point in prison. When I first went, my first two years, I got sales to an undercover, got out for 13 days. My first two years, I took it as a joke. getting high hanging out with my so-called friends, dominoes, cards, you know, doing nothing.

Get out 13 days later. Drug deal gone bad, they charged me like I rob a bank man, interfering with commerce by threats or violence, and brandishing a firearm in the comments of a felony. Going to the house, a dude tries a robes with a gun. What do I do, fight or flight? Punch dude, take the gun leave. Code defendant takes a pound and a half of marijuana, another gun.

State picks up charges. Later, estate drops and feds pick them up. since to 144 months. So through this whole journey, I go back to the state, go and do my state time, finish that up, I'm in there still trying to, like, that's why I was in that shoe for because I got an introduction of narcotics to an institution. So I'm still trying to young and dumb, still trying to make money, still think I'm smarter and everybody else, still think I got it all figured out, man.

And come to find out, I didn't have nothing figured out. I was dumb in a box of rocks. I didn't know nothing until then I met Rusty go through and I start getting getting things back together Rusty comes out and he's like hey kick you get some weed I'm like hey buddy I don't smoke no more he's like what you don't smoke no more I'm like bro I don't want this for the rest of my life he's like man you did listen didn't you I'm like yeah bro I got to start changing somewhere so go through Potosi leave Potossey go to the lower level lo and behold guess who's there my brother and I'm like wow okay he's back in praise in his 40s gun charge didn't get federal disgust day and I'm like that's when I realized I knew

I grew up and he's like hey what's up you want to go do this you want to go smoke you and I'm like bro I don't even want to talk to you like I'm still kind of angry at you because I feel like you're the reason but really you're not so I go to uh finish out my little state time go to the feds in transit oh we got caught like I left December of 2018 I got stuck in Oklahoma through the snowstorm through Christmas holiday. Worst thing ever. I was there too through the Christmas and holiday of what year was that? We were there in 18.

They sent us to Grady County, like a little place in Oklahoma, I guess. They farm some of the federal inmates out. I passed through their December 2017. Yeah, we was there December of 18. And they picked us up in Missouri, so they took us to another county jail for a couple days, took us from there to Springfield for like a day, and then we drove from Springfield to Oklahoma, and I'm just like, like, one of the vans we were in,

like it was like a dog kennel van, bro, like, no windows, no nothing, you're just cuffed and shackled, and I'm just like, it was, his experiences was sucked. But we get, uh, Grady County was cool, I guess, for what it was, you could, people could order your commissary online. And so, like, they would just, like,

send a bag of jolly ranchers throughout the, every other day, you know, you can video visit there. So that was the first time I got to see people. And, like, I haven't seen, it's not my twin brother, but I call him like my twin where three days apart. That's the first time I got to see my brother. Like, this is a different brother that we grew up together in the streets and stuff, you know, like my right-hand man.

So that's the first time I got to see him in, like, probably seven years. So he's out there doing good, man. Got a little girl, got to just live in life to the best, man. Changed his life around. I was so proud for him, you know. And I'm glad I got to do. to use that video visit because 2019 we come off a lockdown in USP Macquarie and I come down and see an email that he got killed on a motorcycle

accident your brother yeah that's what's tattooed right here the Casey and I'm like like what do you do you know and I didn't it's been two months already because we've been on lockdown I can't check my emails we're on lockdown so it was just rough bro like I went through some A lot of life Changing experiences in that journey at the Some of the worst places to do it at you know But what else can you do?

So we go through transit Get to USP Macquarie Oh let's we let's talk about the plane ride Like this thing is like crazy bro Like you get on this plane And the marshals are like all out there Like Donald Trump's coming through the You know what I'm saying?

Like he's coming through the airport and like they're just lined up. AR-15, salt rifles, everything. And I'm like, man, so we get on this plane. And I'm like, I see some female stuff. And I'm trying to like, hey, I haven't seen nobody. No females in years, you know what I'm saying? So I'm talking.

And I'm like, hey, how's it going? Marshall's just keep it moving. Keep it pushing. So we get there, sit down. I'm like, hey, Marshall, I got to use the bathroom. He's like, I don't care. Another one kind of like, hey, I got used a bathroom. The other guy's like, I told you guys anybody again.

You're going to fucking get it. I'm like, all right, man. So I sit there. I'm like, another marshal. I'm like, hey, Marshall, I got to use the bathroom. Other guy spazes out. He puts me in the row, like, in the airport, on the plane where it's like real scrunched in together. I'm 6'3, and I'm like, damn, maybe I shouldn't ask again.

So we sat there, get ride the plane. Plan's like, when I say, like, Con Air don't got nothing on this, like, this plane's got duct tape on the wing, like, nothing but federal inmates cuffed up on a plane. Like, what happens if something happens to this plane? You know what I'm saying? Like, this ain't good. So we get there, land, get on a bus, drive through BFE to Kentucky Road and Pine Not. And we get there. And it's just like, it's an experience because I've witnessed state, like state prison is soft compared to federal.

So I'll tell you that. Like, when you get to the feds, like you go in there, dudes like, uh, uh, if your case is fucked up, if your sums in your paper's wrong, you're rat, your chomo, go to the left. and see my officers, if not, go to the right, and then we'll see how many of you guys make it. So go in there, get strip search, squat cough, bend over, do all that stuff. And the warden comes in, and, like,

everybody talks about this and I didn't believe it. The warden comes in literally, and he sits there at his little desk, and he's like, hey, a lot of you guys aren't going to make it, but there's only one way you guys are going to make it. Got a Rambo knife, like the size of my forearm, stabs in the table, he's like, hey, either get one of these and don't get caught with it

or go ahead and tell my officers that you need to go with them. I'm like, holy shit. All the stories they tell me about that is real. Like, I didn't believe it. So we go through walking down, go out, receiving, walking down the walk. And like, when you walk in the unit, bro, it's, I don't even know how to describe it. Like, you're walking in the front door.

Everybody knows you're coming. The CEO's done told, like, the white dudes, hey, you guys got two coming. The Mexicans, you guys got two coming. Hey, the D.C. blacks, you guys got three coming. Everybody knows the list for you. there you can see with your last three they just now changed it to where it's three zeros at the end so you can't see what state they're coming from but when i went in like 045 is missouri so like oh 4 5 044 we're looking for that if you got that number of work trying to see what's going on with you

when you walk in the door there's just like a line of inmates whites blacks Midwest south DC uh Texas mafia like different and so they're just going to find out hey where you from because they're looking for any of their enemies or anything the white dudes are going to snatch you up hey you're white all right show you the ropes do all the things and i'm like bro i've been on a plane for like 12 hours i just want to get to my cell and lay down there they're trying to show me this don't do this don't i'm like i'm not going to remember none of this so i go to my cell i got an old dude on there as a dirty white boy gang member he's like where you from i'm from missouri he's like all right cool you can stay here for a couple days till my bro gets out the hole then you got to find a different cell

i'm like man i just want to go to sleep so i go to sleep wake up go to breakfast where I'm at, they didn't have a cafeteria at first till like my last few months. So you would just walk through the cafeteria, go through the line, get a styrofoam tray of your breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Dinner would be delivered to you on a cart. They didn't have the cafeteria because it was so violent.

So they get my breakfast and all the Missouri guys, they know we're coming. They're all waiting there. I know a couple guys from the state and stuff. And it's like, do you need anything? They come tell us, come out for a wreck, bring us our sweat. our shoes, our shorts, our stuff that...

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warranty. Comments is a registered trademark of Cummins Inc. Ram and Hemmy are registered trademarks of FCAUS LLC. We need you know care package and we go back in the unit and the dudes like hey you guys got 30 days getting my paperwork I'm like my paperwork's already on the way bro I told my lawyer to have it meet me here he's like what you know I'm like bro I don't we don't like that's your driver's license in the feds like we're not going to play the paperwork game you got 30 days to get your paperwork when you get there if not like they're going to look you up and figure it out on pacer or something and nine to ten times like where I was at the CEOs are going to tell you like they'll come to whoever's got the unit for the white guys, the rep, and they'll be like, hey, you guys

got one that's coming. So, you know, he's either a rat or a chomo. So you figure out what you're going to do with it. Like, the police promote violence where we was at, like, for those type of people, you know? And what happens to those type of people? Oh, they're got, like, they're not even going to make it off the, off the, into their cell. Like, unless that's really, like, really bad, they're going to let them make it to their cell, get situated, and then come out like, hey, come over to a table and show you and they're going to either put a lock on a laundry loop and lock them up or two guys are going to come with knives and stab them up until the police come. Why do you think the correctional officers do this?

Because where I was at in Kentucky is country-fed white dudes and they don't like child molesters and they don't like rats and that's just it's a game to them. They like to see the violence and even if it's like if they'll read the case before and they'll see everything bro and they'll they'll like you know. when something's about to go down in the wing the tension it's quiet everybody's out the way especially as like any you can ask anybody the white dudes are notorious for the most dangerous and rowdyous in the feds when it comes to putting in work or violence and it's sad to say but it's what it is like i just call it how i see it the police will act like when they know someone's about to go down

they'll go stand outside all of them stand outside and act like they didn't know what was going on until they so whatever can happen can happen you know and when you get there like your name goes you're on the chopping block. Once your paperwork clears, whenever your number comes up to put in work, either you put in work or you become the work. So you and two other people, that's how you know,

that's how they tell the CEOs without telling them or the police, somebody's bad for the yard. You send two on one. So when you send two on one, hey, he's no good for this yard. For whatever reason, it's none of your business, but he's no good for the yard. Being in the Missouri car,

hey, kid, such and such did this. Okay, well, that's cool. Let's figure it out. He's running up a dope dead. Or, hey, this, or, you know, whatever the case may be, we'll try to figure it out. But if it's just, like, my work when it came in, like some people, that's a feather in their hat to put a, to get a child molester, to get a rat, you know? And you can't just say a person's a rat and you want to get a

matter because you don't like them. You've got to produce the paperwork. Or they, their paperwork will show or whatever. You've got to produce the evidence. You just can't. And if you say somebody's a rat and they're really not, you're going to become the word because you're spreading false rumors on somebody's name. Have you ever seen a rat or a chomo actually fight back? and because there's some that are like hidden where like they're actually some jack dudes or they're tough and they're not like the vulnerable white old guys that we hear about what happens to those guys.

Most definitely they'll try to make it and they'll fight back but that's why like and if they're getting the best of the two dudes they'll another white dude will be around two other white dudes will be around surrounding them and they'll if they're getting the best them they'll go right in and help and then becomes three or four on one but yeah I've seen it happen too

like where the work beats up the work ease. And so if you don't comply as a new person, like you can't stay neutral in a penitentiary, can't you? Oh, no, no, no, you're not. There's no, like, neutral in the penitentiary, they'll call that man time. Some places have that where I was at, there's no man time. You're either like, you just say you went to the pen.

You're from Connecticut. You're going to be in the Connecticut car. If there's nobody from the Connecticut car, say there's more New Yorkers there. you're going to ride with the northeast car, New York, Boston, all that type of stuff up there. You're going to ride with that car. And that's your car. So, like, when you're in a cell, like, I would only sell with a Missouri guy. Because, say, Missouri and the northeast car gets into it, but I live with the northeast car.

Now I'm not going to be able to sleep at night. Even though me and him aren't, if my car and his car clash, I have no other choice but to ride with my car. So I would only sail with a guy from Missouri just because we're in the same car like, no if-fans or butts or butts or bow. it. Now, say when there's a situation like that where there's an issue with one car, one member of the car and then a member from another member of the car, how does that get settled? Because there's a process, right? There's like the politic aspect of it. So say two people in a Missouri car have an issue. With someone from another car. Oh, so they'll come and they'll talk to the speaker for the Missouri car. I'll go, the speaker for the Missouri car. We'll talk to, say, the speaker for the Connecticut car. And they'll figure it out, get to the bottom of it. And if, if, you'll talk to the speaker for the Missouri car, and if it's like something that's serious and the one guy's like hey no i want to either we're going to fight in the cell one on one or we're going to fight with weapons and then you'll be patted down by one of my guys you'll be patted down by one of their guys and they'll figure it out make sure you have no weapons if you're fighting without weapons and then you just figure it out and then once it's

fought and over with whoever win-l loser draws it's done it's over with no sneaking nobody in the day room no on the sneak in nobody on the yard because you lost a fight it's done it's over with and if you do that it becomes worse and worse for you at that camp it becomes worse for you at next prison at the next prison because you didn't follow the rules. And what happens if you make a move on someone in another car without getting it cleared by the speaker of the car? So there's only like maybe one or two reasons why you can make a move without getting it cleared if like say you're staying in Chow Line, dude turns around like calls you a bitch.

No if fans or butts are about it. You write then and there we'll deal with the consequences in the shoe or wherever else. Or if something disrespectful to you, that's the only way you can do something. but if not, like, if it's just like, you felt disrespected, not to the point of where somebody calling you the B word, but to some, to the point of like he was talking down to you, you felt. You'll go speak to the speaker, and it's just, they'll kind of figure it out, get to the bottom of it,

and it could be a misconception, and mine not, what was really happening. But nine to ten times, like, the white independence or try to keep the peace amongst each other, because even though there's the white independence, and there's the white gang members, even though they're all white, there's still a sand drawn in that line. Because the white gang members try to tell the white independence what to do. No, hey, we're our own people.

You don't tell us what to do. You guys run by different politics than we do. You know what I'm saying? So you guys have by laws to live by. We don't. We just make sure we're not a rat, chomo. And we, like, you might have different ones. Like, hey, mandatory workouts.

You know, that's just for your mind, body, and soul. Or if a war happens, you're in a war zone. You know, so it just depends on what car you're in and what different, I wouldn't say bylaws, but what different rules and regulations they have for that car. Yeah, now describe the mandatory workouts because that's in a lot of these gang-related prison movies. Like Shotcaller is an infamous one where you see all the guys working out together when they're in the hold together. And that was like a requirement doing the burpees together. Did you see that in the penitentiary?

Oh, yeah, we do it. like so now not everybody in the missouri car wants to work out but it's just it's more of a commodity thing you'll come out there you'll work out you'll show unity amongst your car to the yard and say you got a guy that's not really active on working out he's going to come out there and he's going to stay in security he's going to come out there and he's going to stand run laps two or three laps he's going to walk laps he's going to do some different things you know and he's going to show his commottery to his car and show that hey i'm riding with my car no matter what, even if I can't go out here and do 500 burpees or do whatever, I'm still going to

show commottery for my car. And, but yeah, just a different guy, I'll lead to work out a different day and you'll be out there. You might only have a certain time to go outside so you could be out there and we were in the mountains. So we'd go out there and run laps in the morning, go out there and do four or five hundred burpees in the afternoon, all different types, three, five, sevens, just whatever you wanted to do, we would do it, you know? And like you'll have like a piston system. So if there's six guys of us, there's three lined up on this side, three lined up on this side. These three go, then these three go.

These three had their back to the fence nine out of ten times because we're all watching each other's back. And there's always two guys walking, you know? And like I came home now when I'm with my wife and my daughter, like we're in the mall or something, I'll still do the same thing, bro. Like I'll be ahead of us or I'll be really big. behind us. Like, it's just always one of those things that's a security issue to do because if, when you're walking in a group with the Missouri car, they'll have somebody in front of you with somebody behind you because you're, if somebody's going to ambush you from the front,

you can see it. If somebody's going to ambush you from the back, somebody's going to see it, you know, because they're walking, talking about whatever needs to be talked about amongst the car. So, and there's different people for that. There's a guy that's going to check paperwork. There's a guy that's going to be the, for the family, the camaraderies, what they call it. You know, there's going to be a guy that's going to be security. Like, that's what they do. And even on the shower time, like, you could be in my car and I come in from the workout and you come in from the workout. And you're like, hey, I need to go get on the phone.

I'm like, hey, I need to go get in the shower. You're going to come with me to the shower and you're going to stand in front of the shower while I shower with your knife to make sure nobody gets in that shower. And then when I'm done, you're going to walk me to my cell. And then I'm going to get my cell. And then you can go get on your phone or go do whatever. Like, the car comes before everything when you're in that. there. So it's almost ran like a gang, but it's not a gang. But you have to do it to survive. Now, the cars have specific, like, jobs. I've noticed talking to a couple fed guys where they'd have,

like, one guy was in charge of holding the knives or moving the knives. One guy was the paperwork guy. One guy was like the money guy, the treasurer that would collect all the items for the new, good guys that came on. Was that like that where you were? Oh, most definitely was like that. And so it was at first, it was ran just normal. But I, I also got to experience COVID. I was locked down during COVID. So we came out two or three days a week and like where I'm at the white dudes, you're not working on lockdown. So if we're on like a disciplinary lockdown, you're no white dude is working.

So like either I'm going to go to the shoe or I'm not going to work. But the police know that we're not working on lockdowns because we're not going to do your job. My fellow Missouri guys are behind these doors. I'm not going to go out here and work and get privileges when we're all locked down. I'm not going to do your job pretty much. So, but yeah, most definitely we have, you have a guy that's going to make the knives. And, like, that's some of the, I've seen some of the stuff I've never seen in my life. Like, you would take a pencil, one of the little pencil sharpeners and you take the razor blade out of it and you cut are those, I don't know what those, like black clip things are called that go on papers, you know, that you can fault.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I don't know what they're called, but you can use those things and you would just break that thing in half. and you just every like so they do a cell rotation every i think 90 days the night before cell rotation everybody stays up cutting their bunks and you can hear it you can like literally hear it and then you move to the next cell and the seal will be like hey looks like there's a piece missing here piece missing here okay now that's your cell then when you move the next 90 days you're going to cut a knife out of your bunk and the next morning you're going to take it to whoever needs to hold it they're going to stash one on the yard they're going to stash one over here they're going to stash one here these two guys

guys are going to hold one because they stay in the TV area. This guy always walked the top walk, so he's going to hold one. And yeah, you don't, it's not like, it's not nothing to brag about. It's not nothing to be cool, but you have to adapt to your environment, no matter where you're at. Is there a world where that's not needed? Do you ever think in these penitentiaries where you can go there and you don't need a knife where it's kind of a safe place? Oh, there's not a safe place. You never know what could happen, the drop of a dime, especially I was there when during the K2, era, them guys were smoking that K2 and just you never know it, have them come out running, swinging on the police, talking about I see aliens and you just never know what somebody's

going through mentally and what type of person that they're going to be that day, you know, and the drop of a dime. It's all, it's all a, you got a lot of, just say, head dudes from where they're from all in one place and then penitentiaries, a lot of the violent dudes where they're from, you know, So they're sitting there playing spades. And this guy feels like he gets cheated. When really he didn't, he just lost. So he just gets up and starts stabbing dude.

You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I've seen a dude have words on the handball court the day before. And I was like, oh, man, that's not going to be good. Next morning, get up, go down there. Everybody goes to the email, checks their email. I see dude walking around walking laps. And you can tell by, like, he's got that look on his face. you know, like he's plotting something or something's going on.

So I'm like, I back up, put my back against the wall, and I'm just watching. And there's two computers right here. He taps a dude, and he's like, hey, you might want to get up and move. So dude gets up and move. He walks around again, comes back, and he just like hauls back with a lock, master log on a loop and just beats dude to like lifelight him out of there, all because they had words on a handball court over a game. Wild. Crazy, man.

So here's a question. If you stuck one of these individuals in, say, a camp, right? Like, just a prison camp. Do you think the violence would still be the same, or is it the environment that's creating the violence? Like, would these individuals be fine on their own in a different environment? Or is it these pens are fueling the violence? These pins are fueling the violence just because they run a no-nonsense policy. Whereas at the camps, like a lot of them guys will level down and they'll tell you, man, you don't want to go to a lower level just because they don't have the respect level, I guess you would say.

Like, my cell, say my cell's right here and this is the D.C. area where they watch their TV yet. I can't walk through that area. I have to walk all the way around to get to my cell. So it's just like, now I'm a social butterfly and I've been there for so years. Like I'm just a likable guy. So, like, the white dudes would get on to me, like, hey, why are you walking through that area? Because I know the head of the D.C. dude. He said, it's fine.

My cell's right there. I don't care. So I had to get into a lot of cell fights with the white dudes just because, like, why are you worried about what I'm doing? I'm not causing no problems. Worry about your own self. You know what I'm saying? And, like, in the pins, when you go, say you have to go up to the CEO to talk to a CEO about something like, hey, can you do this for me or, hey, can you call up to medical and see this. Like, you can't go by yourself.

You have to go to people up there. And it's like, some of the things made me think like, man, look, I was just facing 25 years. And I didn't tell. But you think I'm going to go up here and talk to a CEO and try to get an extra sandwich or something? You know what I'm saying? So, like, I was, some of the rules I was, I didn't like them. But I fought a lot of them. And then when there's high tension going on on the yellow side or the blue side, like, there's two different sides.

There's high tension going to the other side. We're going to run two people everywhere. Like, you're on double man. So if you're walking in a child hall, make sure you're. have somebody else with you going to the chow-hall? If you're on the yard, make sure you have somebody else with you. Are there a lot of hits randomly on different cars? Like, are you seeing in the penitentiary where it's just like a straight, like actual murders getting carried out? Or is it not so much in those penitentiaries where there's less gangs, like the Mexican mafia or some of those

like Aryan Nation and whatnot that you see more out on the West Coast? Oh, so there was Aryan Brotherhood, Texas, where I was at. Northstra Familiar, like I met two of the Founding fathers of NF met, let me see, who else was up there. You got the Texas Mafia, and you got the other like Bloods and Crips and Latin Kings and GDs and folks and stuff like that. And it's not like, it's not just random hits. It's like stuff could happen at another camp. Like, so say the Midwest blacks and the South blacks get into it another camp.

it could trinkle down to our camp and they're going to get into it and they don't even know why but no it's not like just random hits you know it's stuff that's been maybe brewing from years or things that's going on that's reason why it's it's not just like i felt like stabing you today so i'm gonna stab you no like it's a reason why it happened like we had a guy that was in missouri car try to get on gang time he didn't make it on gang time they didn't want him in the gang try to come back to the missouri car no like you turned your back on us once they don't want you You already showed it at a time of distress you're going to turn your back of us or in a time of war you're going to turn your back on us. So no. So we send 10 dudes, yeah, he's one of the homies. He didn't really do nothing too bad, but you got to go on to the next place. So send two homies. Beat him up. Black his eye up, bloody him up, you know, till the police come.

Send him to the next camp. Next camp will send word, hey, is this dude cool? Yeah, that's what happened. He's cool. He's fine to walk there. He's just not welcome here. Plain and simple. So is there a difference between cars and gangs?

like are they separate entities? Can a gang member be in a car or the gang member has to be in a gang? That gang member is that gang. Like, so you're, if you're an Aaron Brotherhood, Texas, even though you're white, you're still a white gang member. So you've got your white gang members, you've got your white independence. Now in the white independence, you've got Missouri, Connecticut, California, Kansas, whatever. When the other guys come in, they're going to be, if you're at GD on the streets, you're going to be in the coalition car. vice lords the whole coalition the bloods in the crypts like people are like that's so weird

because on the streets they don't get along in the feds they're in the same car then you got like your Midwest blacks your South blacks your DC blacks and then you'll have like your was I'm trying to think of like NF was the white sit here the NF sit here the NF sit here Mexican mafia sit here, Texas syndicate set here, and then they would have a table just for like neutral zone. So it's like if I want to play a black guy in chess, we're going to go set at the neutral zone because you can't come to my area. I can't come to your area. So we're going to go set at the neutral zone and play. So what happens if, say, you join the Missouri car, you're protected by them, everything's good, but then like a gang, a white gang, an Aryan nation, the Brotherhood comes up to try to approach you.

decline them. Are you in danger or is your car protecting you? No, my car's protecting me because I declined them, but it's like usually nine to ten times with the white politics and the gangs. Like, if you're into that lifestyle, like you're going to be a hang around with the Aryan Brotherhood, Texas or whatever, you're going to be a hang around, you know, so you're not just going to, that's what happened to that guy. You try to flop back and forth. And like if you're in the Missouri car and you're like, hey, I kind of just all of a sudden wanted to start being a gang member. remember and doing this now, okay, that's fine. Like, we're not going to oppose on you.

Like, you're still a white, good in the white community, but you hang out with them, you work out with them, you're protected by them, you're with them. But if they say, hey, you're not going to hang out with us no more, then you're not welcome back with us. So it's pretty much like a... How many discounts does USA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount. Safe driver discount.

New vehicle discount. Storage discount. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaaa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply. Gang inside of a independent car, you know. Now these white, you know, celebrity type figures that end up independent tentaries because they get so much time like a Sam Bankman or that guy that did the Silk Road, he's independententary because he got life. How do they hold up in there?

These are guys that are not a part of street life that did not grow up in that environment and get, you know, sentenced there. as long as they're not a chomo or they did not tell they're going to be a hundred percent fine 110 percent fine that's the only two things that you're not going to be fine for yeah now if you're in there like being mouthy and thinking you're a tough guy and stuff but these guys are not going to be those type of caliber you know so like i was up there with uh tommy patera that's a karate kid one of the captains for the uh banana crime family if i say it right i don't know but like if you guys look them up like you'll see like stone cold like over 62 murders like you know and if you you didn't know it you i sat down with them watch him draw portraits and drink coffee with

them every morning like just your normal guy and just ran kind of with the northeast car but kind of just ran by itself just an old guy like you would never know it you know what i'm saying and i was up there with uh i never talked to her i met him but uh supreme's at usp mccory where i was at uh 50 cents dad or whoever he is, you know. I'm trying to think who else some guys that came through there. BG, the rapper, came through there. You know, and they guys just walked the yard like normal when they're in there. South black car or wherever.

So different USPs have different, like sometimes at USP you'll have a Midwest car, like a white Midwest car. So it would be like your Iowa, Kansas, Missouri and stuff. Just because Iowa, there's not that many guys going to the pen. Just the smaller states in the Midwest, there's just not that. big enough for them to have a car. So it's just unity in numbers is how it is. But Missouri is usually one of the biggest cars around where you go. Now those mafia guys that are locked up serving life or a lengthy sentence for murders, do they ever express how they feel about the guys that

did the same thing but snitched and are now out on the street on YouTube, on TikTok sharing? Because like you see some of these mob guys and I think it's pretty wild, like that they literally have immunity now. They have multiple bodies on them and they're out there talking about it freely. And they're blowing up because of that. So the Tommy guy when I was there, he's old school and he was just like he would talk about it.

Like I remember one time the guys were in there talking about Frank Lucas and he's a big drug dealer in this and this and he's like, he's a fucking rat. I don't care what he did or he didn't do. If he told him the police, who he told he's a fucking stool pigeon. I'm like, Dan, you guys still say that? He's like, yeah, he's a rat kid. We don't fuck with him.

I'm like, all right, bro. And he's just, but they don't really have social media in there. They don't know, like, unless your family tells you, all, such and such is doing big off of this or doing big off of that. But, like, when the stuff happened in the feds with Wadi Boulger, he was like, he knew before anybody else knew. He's like, yeah, they got Wadi Boulger. And I'm like, oh, yeah, he's like, he don't really talk about too many things about, like, normal everyday life, you know? it's just he don't really they don't really talk about that type of stuff like he's still in that mindset of the feds are watching yeah now i mean you're a guy that you know was in these hard prisons federal like the worst of the worst was it weird

for you to come out and see this world of people talking about it so openly and how accurate do you think that information is out there because you're a very humble guy you keep it real you're keeping it honest about it. Do you think some people kind of twist that narrative? So, yes, to a big extent, they twist that narrative because they'll talk about like, oh, the USP this or USP that. And I'm like, that's not how it happens. That's not how it goes.

You know what I'm saying? Like I told you earlier, like, I brought my paperwork here with me because it's just what other Fed guys do. Like, if you move into a sale with somebody, like even though their cars check their paperwork are there, hey, when you move into a cell, like, I'm going to put my paperwork on the table, just let you know. If you want to read my case or read whatever,

I'm open to it. But it's all public knowledge. Like, so guys will get on this social media things and see this and read that. And that's just like the guy 1090 Jake. Like, he'll go, he was on your podcast. And he'll, he sets a lot of them out because he's like, no, you weren't really doing this.

You weren't really doing that. Or no, that's not what happened. Here's public knowledge that you can read on the internet and you're saying it happened like this. Yeah, there's three sides to every story. But like, come on now. but and that's why I tell a lot of people when like when I go back in like since I've been home I've been going back speaking to the schools and trying to reach the youth and let him know that that lifestyle is not where it's at man and that's like the number one thing I I stress to them is what you see on TV and what you see in these movies is not real life like it's not like that but I've been through all sides of it from the state from a lower level to a max in the state to the feds to like when I say the worst or the worst like U.S. McQuary is like a step-down program.

So when you go to the ADX, you go from the ADX, which is the worst or the worst in the feds, you go from the ADX to the smooth, the smooth to USP Macquarie Pine, not Kentucky. So it's like a disciplinary yard is what it is. And it's just, it's wild. It was, it's like unbelievable. And when I get to tell them some family members, some story and stuff, they're like, really? Like, it's, if I didn't live it, I wouldn't believe it. No, when you compare gangs versus cars, gangs, we hear the term shock call or, you know, prison gang, shot call, or this and that, the heads of that.

But a car, we were speaking that they're more of like the speaker of the car, the head of the car. How does one become that head of the car? So he has to be obviously not like a drug addict has to have a good head on his shoulders, not hot-headed. Because just because you're the speaker don't mean nothing like. So say we'll just use it. this for an example to make it people understand. Say there's, we got 10 people in the Missouri car. You're the speaker, but all nine of us have a voice and an input or a vote or something.

You're just going to be the one that's going to speak to the other car or speak to whoever else we need to speak to. Or you're the most level-headed. I've seen young guys be speakers. I've seen old guys be speakers. I've seen guys that just showed up to a camp. It all depends on their intellect and their level of knowledge of, hey, are we going to make the right decision for us moving forward.

Like if we have a hot head as a speaker, yeah, let's go to war, we'll worry about it later. You know what I'm saying? You can't do that. So when COVID happened, I had, on the blue side, I had it for a six house. So there's six, five, and four. You couldn't see other houses. You wouldn't go outside of other houses. Only your house.

So I had probably five guys in a unit. And I think there was like five or six of us. in B unit. And so, like, if something happens in an A unit, they got to wait until the next day to come tell me, hey, Kit, the Missouri guy and the Minnesota guy got into it. Okay, cool, what was it over?

Do you disrespect him? What's he want to do? Oh, he said he just wants to catch a cell. Okay, cool. You guys, like, I understand you guys have to make sure it's okay with me, but you're a grown man, like you're in your 30s. Like, you can go fight.

It's okay. Just make sure it's one-on-one and nobody else gets involved. No weapons. Okay, cool, that's fine. You guys cool? Yeah, okay, your eyes black, your nose is bloody, you guys are good all right cool go about your business it happens grown men happen all the time you

know and out in the free world they don't you don't fight like that you just go on about your business but in there like that's all you have to do is to squash something you've got to live with the same person in the same unit for years yeah how often are you seeing a turnover rate from these guys that are like the head speakers of the car oh i think when i got there there was only two head speakers for the Missouri car. A guy, one guy's still there. He still calls me. I still send him pictures,

and I still look out for him. A good guy from Kansas City. Probably got another 20 years to do. He was just real level-headed and real calm and collective. Really good guy, man. I took a really good, like it was like my workout partner. I'm like my everyday hang out with guy, man. He's drug charges in there.

It's this, the Fed system is really based off priors, man. It don't matter of your new case. It's you're based on your priors. and being, like I said, during COVID, bro, it sucked, man. You come out yourself. Maybe if you're lucky, if they're not understaff, maybe three days a week for an hour, two hours to shower, if that commissary, like, I can show you some of the commissary list, and you'd be like, what?

Like, you could order, like, maybe two soups, a summer dog, and maybe, like, one bag of coffee, one bag of creamer, one bag of sugar. That was it for the whole prison? That's, like, for each inmate for, like, every two weeks. Why? just because it's COVID so they're not this is COVID only COVID schedule yeah over yeah oh but they just had corporal punishment they had corporal punishment going on there so if like you're in the unit and you get caught with hooch the whole commissary the whole unit goes on commissary restriction for 30 days you get caught with a knife whole unit goes on commissary restriction for 30 days that's how it was like at the holdover facility before I made it to the feds at the private facility they punish everyone and that's where kind of some of the fights were going on too because like like you would have a jackass doing hooch and knowing he keeps getting caught, but we're like a week from making it from commissary,

and they're like, man, why can you just wait a week? And then we got to wait another 30 days. Yeah. And it's just like, man, and it was like a sugarless, therefore while they tried to make a sugarless commissary. They got the sugar-free jolly ranchers because of the hooch. They started. I remember they were implementing that when I was there.

They were starting to phase it out. Yes. And one of the most, I don't know why I always tell the story about this. It's so gross, bro. So, like, the number one hustle in the feds is tobacco. So them country boys up there would chew. So they would spit in the bottle. M.A. would be, like, his job is to clean the area where he's at,

and he would get that bottle out of the trash can. He would take it back. You would take the tea bags, open the tea bags. You would, like, put it over boiling hot water, drain like the tea off the tea in the bag and then you would take that spit and you would dump it over the tea and dry it out

and then you would take the chunk that he took out of his lip and put it dry it out and they would ask you like if you're selling cigarettes they would ask you do you got the real or the fake the real is the chew that was out of his lip and the fake is the stuff you put the spit on the tea wow people making thousands

of dollars. How long does it take to make that? So it's a process because unless you have a stinger, you got to keep going down to the 190 machine and getting the hot water and going back up. So it could take you up to like four or five hours. And what is that netting you? Like how much items? Oh so like it is it all depends on how much juice. They call it the juice to spit how much juice you get and how much tobacco you get. So it just varies. But like one little, Pinner sells for like $10 and it's all free

because you're getting out of the trash can Wow And then like Another guy's house I would love it Like a guy would get in there And you have your desk

He would scrape his desk With all the paint And he would sit under there And he would hold a blanket And he would have like a flat top grill And he would cook burritos And fried rice And anything you could think of

That's what people see on TikTok Yes Those food videos and stuff Oh yes it's real And you would go buy Every day Because you don't want to make a bowl meal or something, you can go get two britos for five stamps, like it's 7-11.

Yeah, what was your hustle? What were you doing? So I worked in the kitchen for a little bit, and I just liked that because I like to eat good, so I could go up there and eat real good food, have onions and vegetables and different stuff, you know, and then I worked in the gym, and I would get everybody else to gym jobs of whatever they wanted, so they'd come pay me for them to get a lawnmowering job or whatever, but I like the gym job because I can be out all day, so it's not worth the money, it's good for the hustle. We had a store. Well, I didn't.

Like in my unit, I had another Missouri guy, hey, I'll put everything up, just put it in the store in case somebody needs something. Or when a new guy comes in, we got stuff or whatever. And then, to be honest with you, when I first got there, I kind of fell back into my old ways. And you could get an ID a K2, bro, for 500 bucks. And you're selling a square like that for 10, 15 bucks. So you're only buying the K2 for 500? an ID just an ID

Prison ID Yeah Wow and how would you get that Other guys I've seen them get it through mail Books I've seen it They crack down on the mail though

Oh yeah I think it's all photocopy now They don't crack down on newspapers So But you would need someone to Um Because it has to come Though

From the actual news times Right like the return label I didn't even think about that newspaper. That's incredible. Or even a book, you just go into a store. And they tell you which part it is in the magazine or in the book. Well, it would be like in the newspaper, every picture.

You would just get two of the same newspapers, take the front picture off of it, and they would load it behind that picture, and you would glue the other picture on it, and then Reese Rund Rapid, put that sticker back on it from the New York Times and send it out in the mail. Now, still to this day, can they test for K2? because I know when I was there, they couldn't. No, not that I know of. Not that I know of. Yeah.

Then they were testing for that. And then just like the, where I was at, they just started where you could suboxone strips were like 300 bucks and you can make like a thousand off of them. It's cool. People make a ton of money in prison. Now, comparing back to gangs versus cars, do you guys get tattoos when you're in a car? You don't have to get a tattoo, but like, I mean, you don't. Like a lot of people get the 045 tattoo or just KC tattoo, but you don't have to have a tattoo, like, symbolize you're in the Missouri car.

But nine and ten times somebody from Missouri is going to have a KC or Chiefs emblem or a 045 or something tattooed on them just to know where they're from. And like where I was at, bro, like you could just go down to the unit. Like me and you would go down there and I'd be like, hey, can I get some tattoo work done? Talk to the CEO. He's like, yeah, it's fine. Just if a lieutenant or sergeant comes around, clean it up for a little bit. He's like, all right, cool.

I'm like, hey, can I lock down during count with him and him and my celly switch cells? Yeah, it's cool. It's fine. So I'd go over there and, like, I got 13 hours done on my chest, bro. And CO just walked by like, damn, that looks good, man. I'll let you guys know if a sergeant's coming around. Just plain as day, don't even care. Because you're not causing any problems.

Not causing any problems, man. And they like the, like, they have a respect level too. Like, you came and asked them, hey, can I tattoo in your unit? Even though we live here, this is their job, their unit, they're here. Hey, that's cool, that's fine. All right, whatever. How often are you seeing the guards get assaulted? And what would be the cause of a prison guard assault?

So I've seen a few in the feds, but it's mostly a big one is a property thing. Like you'll get one of these new CEOs that come in there and just like, okay, you got to do a cell search. You got a job to do. but there's also like a respectful way to do your job. Like don't come in here and just dump all my pictures out. Don't come in here ripping shit, throwing shit, breaking shit. Like this is all I have is my life in this cell, you know? And them guys with life without, don't care.

And they'll see it as in a ticket out of here. Like they don't want to be at McQuary no more. So, oh, that's cool. Just go and stab the cop and get up out of here. Punch him in his face a couple times. Get up out of here. Like, Macquarie was like when I say the worst or the worst, bro, like, the whole time I was there.

they were on a cold sandwich diet for dinner. Like that's, we didn't get, when you were showing that for dinner, like, yeah, I hear about all that stuff, but we got sandwiches, two pieces of bologna, uh, bread, two celery sticks and a little bag of chips. Or you might get a egg salad sandwich. Or you might get a peanut butter and jelly or, like, you're getting sandwiches every night for dinner. Yeah, when I was at the camp, we were next to our medium. So they would call us when I worked in the kitchen to bag lunch, make bag lunch at the medium

every time they went on lockdown. Oh, yeah. I ate baloney for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for 92 days. That's nuts. I wonder what the health effects are of that. I mean, we were talking that you had a health incident last year, and then you think it might be because of the food, but you're just not getting your nutrition at all, nutrients at all.

It's just, it's crazy. It sucks. And then they put how much nutrients you're getting, but that's not true. All those menus are not. Like, people are commenting, oh, you know, that looks great. It's a great menu. Yeah. But when you see it, the portions are small.

There's no way you're getting that protein. No. And I've seen the comments too, and I'm just like, you guys think this is good. Well, try eating fish every Friday for five years. And the fish is so consistent. Some is good. Yeah. Like some of the fried fish patties. I wouldn't touch it when it was the non-fried fish because they rotated it.

They'd do the bake fish one week, then fried. I would never eat the baked fish. It was gross. And just like fried chicken, like, I'm burnt down on fried chicken. I love fried chicken. Yeah. But it's just like... I start selling mine.

Yeah. Three mackrels. Yeah, you get tired of it. And like you said, like that truck driver's special is like, oh, truck driver special is good. No. Not what they were feeding us. A little bit of eggs, one biscuit, and a scoop of gravy. Maybe a sausage link, if you're lucky.

Like, what... That's not a truck driver special. How were the, um, female guards treated in the penitentiary? Are they respected? Oh, yeah, mostly for the most part. And, like, that's, like, a big number one thing is, like, I would always ask the guy on my car, like, hey, so, you know, I'm a firm believer and don't put your hands on females and stuff like that, you know. So what do you do if you're seeing another inmate, either assault or sexually assault, a female guard? He's like, that's a good question.

And I'm like, he's like, you just kind of like, you can't. Because then if there's two ways to look at it. Yeah, you're trying to help a female, but then you're also trying to help a cop when you're an immigrant. He's like, so just don't partake in it. Get yourself out of the situation and leave. He's like, the guards aren't going to give you a kudos or let you out for helping him. For helping her, I mean, but you also don't help him out. Like you can't, it's a catch 22.

You can't, you know what I'm saying? And he's like, I know it's hard, kid, because I would love to do it too, but I just, you can't, you can't do it. It's just not, there's just some things you have to follow the rules. Yeah. So what year did you end up getting out and how much time? did you end up serving in total between your state and your federal? So 2009, I got sentenced to nine years, drug case 0% did two years, got out in 2011 for 13 days, locked right back up October 9th, 2011, all the way till November 1st of 2022.

So 13 and a half years on my. besides those 13 days flat. And so you missed pretty much all your 20s? I missed all my 20s. When did you get locked up that first time? 19. 19 years old. So you missed the whole 21st birthday you spent in prison.

Wow. Do you ever think about the time you lost? I do. And I like I missed some things like still this day. Like I think my brother Casey's still alive because I didn't get to go see the funeral, you know? I'll pick up the phone sometimes and call and I just like I didn't get a witness those things. I missed the I missed a lot of my. important dates, funerals, or weddings, or graduations or things like that.

You know, nieces and nephews being born, different stuff, but I wouldn't change it for the world, bro. Like, I'm the man I am today is because I went through that journey. And I feel like, I used to always ask myself, like, what is my purpose in life? And now I finally figured it out. Like, God knew I could handle all that. God set me through that journey, bro, because he knew I could witness that, experience that, and get out. and let the youth know that, hey, bro, it's not what it's all cracked up to be.

That's not what life is for. So, like, that feel like that's my purpose in life is to tell the youth that you don't got to sell the drugs, to have the nice cars, to go on vacations, to have the nice things. You don't have to sell drugs to be cool because all those people that you're cool to, you're just because it's beneficial to them. When you get older, like, I don't talk to nobody from my younger age no more. You know, my wife and my stepdaughter, that's it. Why do you think that that first prison sentence wasn't a deterrence to stay away from any type of criminal behavior or anything that could remotely get you into trouble?

Because I wasn't open-minded to learning. I was young. Everybody, nine out of ten people when they first go to prison, they have the fear of the unknown. Oh, it's going to be like this. It's going to be like this. It's going to be like this. So they're scared of prison because of that reason. Once they get there, I was doing everything I was doing on the streets.

except having sexual intercourse every day, bro. Which is still possible to do. Yeah, which is still possible, but that's the only thing I wasn't doing. Like, all my guys I was on the street selling drugs with were there. Everybody was smoking weed. It's easy to get. CD players working out, like food, like everything. It's right there.

So I didn't take it seriously. I took it as a joke. And then when I got out, I was like, man, I'm smarter. And then I'm smarter and that now I'm not going to go back to prison. I can figure it out. well the feds got it figured out for you and that was probably one of the most craziest things ever is because it was a state case at first state dropped it feds picked it up and when they say united states of america versus william b kidder rogers i'm like man what

i do to the whole u.s. like i didn't do nothing it's intimidating intimidating and then i'm in court and my mom i get sentenced and my mom's like the judge like i hereby sentence you to 144 months in the federal bureau prison my mom's like like, you said 12 years, not 144 months. She's so distraught and freaked out. And I'm like, mom, that's 12 years. She's like, no, he said 144 years. I'm like, no, he didn't.

He said 12 years, mom, it's okay. Yeah, it was crazy, man. And I, like, I came home and I, my grandma always told me, like, I got sins in the feds, and she was real sick. And she used to always tell me, like, be as good as you can with where you're at. And she was real sick. And I got sentenced in the feds. Like a week or two later, I call home.

My dad's like, hey, what's up? I'm like, what's wrong with you? He's like, nothing, man. He's like, you cool? I'm like, yeah, I'm cool. He's like, what's going on, dad? You can just tell you gotta say somebody he won't say. He's like, man, your grandma passed away.

I'm like, quit playing. He's like, no, your grandma passed away. She told me to tell you that she knows you have enough, you don't have that much time and you'll still make it home to see the free world again. And I'm just like, it hit me hard. Like, damn, man. Like, you'll never get to see your grandma again, you know? And when you do all that time, man, it just,

A lot of people take life for granted, bro. And it's, at the drop of a dime, life can change just like that. You could be top of the world one day, the next day you could be as low as possible. What's something that prison taught you or something that you learned in prison that you wouldn't have today without going through that experience? I would say, it's like you always hear it, but I would say really don't judge a book by its cover. Because just like I told you, I met Tom Petera. Like, yeah, he's killed allegedly over 65 people. But sit down, talking to him, get to know him.

He's just an average guy just like you and me, man. I met, like, just sitting down with some of my tattoo artists out there moving kilos and bricks and killing people. And one of the greatest tattoo artists that I think in the world, you know. And just an average guy, bro, just out there doing what he thought he was. was doing was right but it wasn't like don't judge a book by its cover just like me a lot of people look at me and they're like you did how long in prison wow i could have never told like tattoos are socially acceptable now like i'm selling cars average 20 cars a month bro like i didn't always have a good job when i came home but i worked at food uh tyson's a chicken factory i you know what i'm saying

i didn't have always the best job and i just took a chance on myself and fell out a job on indeed and been in the car industry ever since and I never thought I'd be married I never thought I would have a family and that's all I look forward to now is creating memories with my family like the money all that other stuff it don't matter bro creating memories with my family

that I missed out on I think the world's definitely starting to shift especially now where you have individuals like say Trump that are convicted and celebrities that people idolize getting convicted it's becoming more normal

to have a felony on your record. So those same people that might have said that outcasted someone with a felony before a celebrity that they loved got convicted, it kind of changes things because they're not going to just stop loving that person because of that unless it was like something insane, like a sex offense or a murder or something.

But even then you still have people that still idolize some serial killers and whatnot. But I don't know if there's been a celebrity that was turned into a serial killer. It's usually they're a serial killer and that makes them the celebrity. Yeah. But I think the world's starting to change. And when you have shows like this and other platforms and stuff, now I don't even think twice about my felonies because it hasn't affected me. Yeah, no, I don't think twice about him either. And I'm always up front with them and open. And like even being in the car business, it's always somebody new every day and talking to them and we're going

to test drive and come back and they'll be like, yeah. And I'm like, hey, so what's your story? We're waiting on the car to get approved or something. I'm like, yeah, well, I did 13 years in the feds. Like, quit playing. That's a joke, right? I'm like, no. He's like, man, I would have never known just from talking to you because you're not, you know, people have the, they think a certain look when they think of somebody did so much time in prison.

I'm a tough guy. I did this in prison and tattoos all over the face. And no, like, I'm really respectful and really open-minded and just want to be a normal person, you know. Yeah, it's always funny when I'm sitting down somewhere, like whether at a restaurant or getting my hair cut. They asked me, what do I do for work? And I say, I'm in the podcasting world. And they're like, oh, what's it about naturally?

And I say it's about people that went to prison. And then they ask questions, and they're like, how did you get into that? And then that's when you say, oh, well, I was in prison myself. And they look at me, like, with the baby face and whatnot. And then they're just, like, shocked. But that's always a lead of some people that never gets to that. I just say, oh, I interview people that, you know, that went to prison very casually. but little do they know that I went to prison.

So it's funny. But that's what makes us work because then it gets guys like you comfortable with talking to me because I've been where you've been in some way or another. Most definitely makes it so much easier. Like I feel like, oh, you're just another guy that came. Paperworks good. You made it through and we work out together, do some burpees or something, you know. And that's why I was so big on the youth.

And not only that I think it was my calling, but I remember being younger and a guy coming into school and be like, you don't want to go to prison. you don't want to do this, you don't do that? And then you ask them, well, have you ever been? No, how can you tell me not to go to prison, not to go somewhere you've never been? You don't know what it's like. I do. I lived it.

I experienced it. So that's why I can tell the youth, you know, and it kind of goes, my grandpa always told me, don't surround yourself with turkeys if you want to soar with the Eagles. So it all makes sense. Like, why would I, if I want to be a drug dealer, I'll surround myself with drug dealers. If I want to be an alcoholic, I'll surround myself with alcoholics. it's just not what I want to do What do you want to accomplish in the next say five years

What's your goals So I want to have a baby I want to have me a little kid I had a goal list wrote out man A few things have changed since I just got into the free world and stuff But I want to Maybe we've kind of talked about maybe a podcast Or a YouTube channel or something

To reach more of the youth Because even my six-year-old daughter watches YouTube kids And everybody watches social media now I guess Yeah. So, but I got a few things lined up with the local schools and kind of surrounding areas for juvenile attention centers and stuff. And we go into the county jail every other week and speak to them guys and just let them know, man. If I can change, like, especially in my community, they all knew me like, oh, that's kit. Everybody knows kit.

If I can change, anybody can change, you know? So it's just like, it's possible, man. You've got to start somewhere. And so you asked five years now. Now, let's see. I think I want to start a platform to get the word out more to the youth. Or incarcerated people coming home, because even the older guys coming home now, they're thinking it's not possible to change.

Oh, I've done lost 10 years. The world owes me this or that. No, it's not. Anything's possible, man. Have a baby. Start a platform. And I think just create more memories with my family, man. That's it.

That's what life's all about for me now, man. That's awesome. Yeah. You're very chill. kit. Yeah. I respect it. Yeah, man. I just, like, riding my Harley with my wife. Like, it's so cool because I got my six-year-old stepdaughter. I get a, I get to be a big kid still because I left when I was 19. So I'm still a kid mentally, you know, I still get to be a big kid with her. I'll tell her mom all day. Well, I guess Lexi wants to go to the arcade. I'm going to take her to the arcade. Really, I want to

go to the arcade. I'm just dragging Lexi along. You know what I'm saying? So it's fun, man. I just like get to do stuff that I didn't get to do as a kid with my parents. That's awesome. Well, Kit, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thank you so much, man, for having me. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for traveling out from Missouri to come to a little Danbury, Connecticut, and, you know, enjoy the rest of the time of your city and safe travels back.

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Go, Chiefs. You're to piss some people off with that one.