Locked In with Ian Bick - Why I Was Wrongfully Charged with Murder | Chip Williamson

Episode Date: October 5, 2023

After a night with his Ex wife's new lover turns south, Wade "Chip" Williamson is charged by law enforcement with murder. With no criminal record and now facing life in prison, Chip is introduced to the world of the criminal justice system. In this episode we hear about the events leading up to the charges, how overzealous detectives dragged out the criminal proceedings and how he was ultimately able to avoid life in prison. Connect with Wade "Chip" Williamson: YT: https://youtube.com/@crimeentertainment9303 FB: https://www.facebook.com/crimeandentertainment?mibextid=ZbWKwL IG: https://instagram.com/crimenentertainment?igshid=ZDc4ODBmNjlmNQ== TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@crimeandentertainment?_t=8e7cKGM1vrS&_r=1 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4T67Bs5kksA7HP22LoKzt4?si=W_1Rz4nYTwGtTyq9cbW-VQ&utm_source=copy-link Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/crime-entertainment/id1573321645 Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 10% off your order Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com 00:00 Intro 1:07 New Merch in stock 02:20 Breeze Airlines 03:32 Chip’s real name 06:18 Getting into Chip’s story 08:00 Going to school for welding 11:03 Getting Married 13:16 Getting into a car accident 18:09 Getting Divorced 19:20 Ex meeting someone new 25:24 Ex gets attacked by new man 27:57 Ex’s new man wants to meet 32:00 Going back to Chip’s House 38:22 The shooting 40:41 The scene of the shooting 46:41 How he’s feeling after the shooting 49:15 Getting a lawyer 51:00 Finding out the man passed away & his feelings 52:35 Thinking if he could have done anything differently 55:00 First conversation with his wife after the shooting 57:54 Finding out he’s being charged with murder 1:00:00 Calling Andy Savage 1:04:04 Getting a bond hearing 1:05:32 Self Surrending to Jail 1:08:05 Going to the bond hearing 1:16:46 Getting bonded out 1:17:45 Job firing him 1:19:52 Kids feelings about charges 1:21:30 Rules of house arrest 1:22:40 Finding a new job 1:24:59 Listening to wrongful conviction podcasts 1:25:56 Preliminary Hearing 1:31:15 Plea deal 1:32:55 Getting the case dismissed 1:41:00 Becoming who he is today Produced by: https://www.instagram.com/shanedanahy https://www.shanedanahy.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Real California Milk So he comes out of the kitchen And he doesn't say a word He walks straight up, left hand up under my neck Jacks me up off the floor I'm up on the stove Like he looks me dead in the eyes And he says, I'm gonna fucking kill you

And so he cocks his hand back And he's bringing it forward I can see it coming And I kind of lift up my chin And his momentum carried him You know across the hand That he was holding me with And he kind of stumbles like a step or two

To the left He's going to football tackle me or whatever he's going to do. He's charging. So I take out the gun and I fire. Boom, boom, boom. He immediately falls back. Boom. Call 911.

He flipped on me, tried to attack me, said he was going to kill me. I had to shoot him. I shot him twice in the chest. Welcome back to the Lockton with the NBIC podcast. Corrupt detectives, overzealous prosecutors, expensive lawyers, fighting for your life. We get into it all in this episode in which we have Chip Williamson to share his incredible story and journey of how an argument over a woman leads him to having to defend himself, ultimately resulting in charges that could have landed him in prison for life.

Folks, we now have new merch and stock. Go to Ian Bick.com to check out our selection of hoodies, t-shirts, and beanies just in time for the holiday season. My personal favorite, the beanies are great, they're comfortable, and they look awesome. You guys can use code locked in at checkout to receive 10% off your order. that's code locked in at eanbick.com. Thank you so, so much to all of our viewers and listeners that not only tune in week after week, but also tell their friends, their family, their coworkers about this podcast

and help get the world out there. It means the absolute world, and I wouldn't be here without you guys. Remember, you can help support our show by hitting the subscribe button on YouTube or giving us a follow and review on whichever site you listen to this podcast. I hope you guys sit back, relax, and enjoy my interview with Chip Williamson. Chip, welcome to Locked in. Glad to be here, my brother. Thanks for having me.

Thank you, man. Where are you traveling from us today? I come up from Charleston, South Carolina. So Breeze Airways got me here pretty quick, direct flight. Not too bad of a flight and I go home tomorrow. Isn't Breeze amazing? Like, it came out of nowhere and this thing is taking over. I know.

And, like, I come to New York quite a bit because, I do some podcasting as well. And like those direct flights to New York or Islip, you know, Long Island, depending on where you go. And it's really convenient and they're cheap. And most of the time I'm in and out, you know, it's usually a day travel. So don't even really need to pack a, you know, a huge bag. I love them.

And I've threw spirit a few times. Spirit's less, a lot less uncomfortable than Breeze. You know, Breeze makes me remember like the original days of Jeff Blue, what Jeff Blue was trying to be with the cheap low flight now. It's like more mainstream and it's expensive. But Breeze is less than 100 bucks round trip. You can't beat that. Oh, yeah.

I think I flew to Tampa earlier this year and I bought tickets on Black Friday. They were $25 a peach each way. Wow. So 50 bucks. And then I was staying a few days. So I actually had to take a bag. I had to pay $30 for the bag each way. So I paid more for the bag to fly up there than I did.

I'd have been cheaper trying to buy a bag of seat. Isn't that insane? Now, your name isn't actually Chip, right? Correct. It's actually Wade Williamson. Wade's my governor's name. How do you get the name Chip? It was a nickname that I got when I was real little,

and I liked it better than Wade at the time, honestly. And so it's weird. It's in all of my annuals coming through high school. It's on a debit card that I have. And it's not, I don't have it anymore. It was from, like, the local bank where I grew up. But it's not even, like, nowhere near my real name, but they had Chip on the debit.

card that I used for years. So I stuck with it all the way through high school. And then after that, you know, starting to put in for jobs and whatnot. I was on with this company called New Corps Steel. I was working with them in Columbia. And then I went to transfer to the vision in Charleston. So they're calling back and it was like, hey, we need the records for Chip Williamson. And he's like, we don't have a Chip Williams.

And he's like, you mean Wade? And then so that's when I was like, all right, I might need to get rid of Chip and actually go by Wade getting into more of the, you know, the job things. And I just started going by Wade again. So on the Facebook, it's still Chip because, like, everybody back home knew me as that. But now all the newer people that meet me, they know me as Wade. Which one do you prefer? I go with Wade now.

Wade? Yeah. Either one of them goes. Like, you look like a Chip, but you also look like a Wade. Yeah. And, like, the nickname that everybody, I had one friend. And he actually gives me the name that I go by on the podcast. I had one friend in school that always called me Wade.

Because he knew I didn't really like it. That's what he always called me. And he called me Hollywood wait one time. And because back in the dad, a friend of mine that worked at a – or his mom worked at a video store. So you remember VHS days, we're going back a minute. You could dub – you could hook up two VCRs and dub movies. So you play one-on-one VCR and you record it to the other VCR. So I used to do that all the time.

So I had like every movie you could think of. Well, back in the day when we would get together for the weekends, we'd say, all right, well, you know, go to somebody's house, and you only had, like, two video stores. You had Hollywood video and Blockbuster video. And so the guy was like, we don't even need to go to Hollywood video. We got Hollywood Wade. And so I did like that nickname. And then so when I started the podcast, that's actually the name that I used was Hollywood Wade.

Well, you remember when you had to have the separate device to rewind the tape? That just brought back a flood of memories. Oh, man. I tell my son about it now. He don't have a clue what I'm talking about. I'm like, man, they would even tax you. I think like 50% if you didn't rewind. wind the tape when you brought it back of the store. Oh, man, the times. A racket ahead. And

like now you can't even find a VCR. Yeah. Like it's hard. Somebody's got one. It's like vintage now. It's even hard to find DVDs. Everything's streaming and all of that. That's crazy. Straight to your phone. It's crazy how far technology has come, my brother. Now, Wade, you have an insane story. You've documented it on your own channel, on other people's podcast that we know of on YouTube. You search your name. You're all over the place. Let's start at the top of that story. What was your childhood like? Where are you from? How did you grow up? So I grew up at a town called Darlington, South Carolina. Really not a whole lot there except for it's got one of the biggest NASCAR or one of the bigger

NASCAR tracks, one of the oldest. That's really all it is, man. Small town. grew up both parents in the household, had an older sister, so a very average childhood. I wasn't like a troublemaker, wasn't a troubled kid, you know, pretty decent grades. If anything, I was always the hustler, like I was the buy for a dollar or sell for two type, you know, like with the movies. We would go drag racing sometimes I had a Mustang, and so everyone would go to the drag strip to do racing on Wednesday nights. we had all the bootleggers out there would sell like the CDs but they would have them

before the stores would have them they'd get them like a week or two early so this is like right on the cusp of CD burning being a thing and so I would buy them from them go home and burn like you know 10 copies of them and then go to school and sell them to everybody at school and I was also beating out the other people

that were doing that too because they couldn't get them until the actual release date so I was getting them a week or two before and so that was just always my thing I was always the hustler you know legal even though that wouldn't turn that illegal, but you know what I'm saying. Never into drugs or anything like that. But just, you know, a quick way to make a buck. And that was how I always was.

And I went to school for welding, you know, graduated, went to college, went to Florence, Darling Technical College. And welding was kind of the avenue that I was going to go after. And I went to a course that we were finishing up. And there was a company that just opened up where I lived. and you could exempt the last few months of the course and go straight into the workforce there. So that's what I did around about this time. My mom and dad did separate and she met somebody and she was like,

if you're going to be working now, I'll move out and you can stay in the house. You just pay the bills and pay me, I'll pay the bills and you can have the house to yourself because you're kind of fixing to become an adult. And so that's what I did. Like my first actual job started, you know, staying by myself. I had a roommate over, of course. So it was just, you know, partying, man, enjoying life. Working, partying.

It was a perfect schedule for me at the time. I worked four tens. So I would go in at like three in the afternoon, work to like one and be done. And after Thursday night, I was done to the weekend. I don't have to worry about it until Monday evening. So, you know, you can do a lot of partying in that expansion of time. And, you know, that's what I did for a real long time. And then I'm out at this club one night.

and I knew everybody in my neighborhood. Like the club we went to was, you know, a local club to where I was at. So I knew most of everybody that come in there. And I was sitting in there and this girl comes walking in. Fuck, beautiful. And I was just like, who is that? And she happened to be talking to a classmate of mine. And so I went up to her and I was just like, who is that girl you were talking to?

And she's like, oh, I met her out of her last weekend. Her name is Felicia. And I'm like, well, you've got to, you know, introduce me. Because I'd never seen it before. I knew she wasn't from around there. And so we go up and she does introduce us, and we get to talking. And, you know, I was kind of flirting best I could back in those days. And we exchanged numbers.

And after that, I didn't really hear from her. And I'd say probably like two or three weeks goes by. This was like in October, November-ish. And we're fixing to go back out there again. They were having some kind of big event. So I texted her, and I'm like, hey, you're going to this event. She's like, yeah. So we go out there and it just kind of slowly started transitioning into a relationship.

And so she eventually moved in. And, you know, things just really were on a fast track. We got engaged fairly quickly. We did not get married right off the bat. We got engaged fairly quickly. And we're just, we're living our best life, man. We're partying it up on the weekends. You know, we're going to work during the week.

And it's just, it's some of the funnest memories I've ever had in my life. Because, you know, sometimes when girls coming to the mix, they'll try to, like, pull a guy away from his friends. and this was the exact opposite. She joined in. She became one of the crew. And, you know, she would, a lot of times be like the mom, you know, cleaning up after somebody, you know, puked all over the floor or something like that. So she was kind of like the house mom in the group.

And, you know, we had a great time. And I'd say probably about six years after that, we did decide to get married. Now, I'm still living in Darlington at the time. But I got on with the company. I was telling you about New Corps. steel and I was driving back and forth working night shift to Columbia, South Carolina, me and a couple other buddies. And it was just, it was draining.

I hate working third shift anyway, but it was, it was long hours, just, you felt like you had no energy to give the world. And I was just like, you know, I'm trying to get on, they have a company as crazy as it is, in Darlington, where I lived. But it was one of those places where it's like impossible to get on. You've got to know somebody or somebody's got to die or. something. I mean, it's just really hard because you make good money. And so it's one of those jobs. Once people get it, they never leave. But people were having luck going to the Charleston division.

So I was like, hey, I'm going to apply to go up there. We'll see what happens. What do you know they did? Now, right along the time when we got married, almost immediately after that, we found out she was pregnant. So she did have my son. And she already had a daughter when we got together. Her daughter was three. So essentially now I got, you know, the family, the daughter, the son, the wife, and we move it up to Charleston. And everything's going really good. I'd say probably for about a three or four year span. And then my wife's dad got a cirrhosis of the liver and got real sick. And it really put a change in her whole demeanor of personality.

He did wind up ultimately passing away. Great guy. And so it just done a total shift in her, understandably so. And so it was kind of like the person that I was used to was kind of turning into someone that I didn't really know in a sense of like we didn't go out as much. We didn't do a lot. You know what I'm saying? But I understood why. And I was still very much an extrovert.

Like, you know, I loved going out and meeting people and that just kind of put her where she wanted to stay home. So I'm not going to say that was like a big deal breaker because she never stopped me from going. But that was kind of like what started everything. And then eventually, you know, I wound up getting in a real bad car accident. And that really started snowballing things. There's a, I don't know if you ever heard of Myrtle Beach, South Carolina? Yeah, of course, yeah. Okay.

So they had a what they call a Carolina country music fest. It was like basically their country-fied version of Woodstock. And this was something that she was on board of doing. It was her idea to go. She's like, hey, we should go to this thing. It's going to be like three days of music. you know, concerts all the time should be really cool.

So we go. I go up on Thursday after work. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I mean, just the party in every single day. And so we're coming back on Monday, and I got to be to work at Tuesday morning. So I get back like Monday evening and barely slept this whole entire weekend.

I think at one point in that weekend I actually had a buddy of mine who was a medic, give me an IV into my arm because I just had no sleep. And he had them in his back. And it just like, I don't know if you ever had an IV, but it just rejuvenates you. It's just put you back to, you know, a hundred level of energy. And so I'm trying to get everything straight because I hadn't been home before I go back to work,

heading in, get up at like 5 a.m. to head to work, fall asleep. Run off the road. Flip probably like, it's got to be like nine, ten times. I don't really remember. All I remember is when I went off. You hear that sound that you hate to hear you when you go off the road. And then it was like a loud bang, and I could tell I was airborne. and I mean it's a constant flip flip flip flip flip I finally land on top of a truck upside down so I'm driving like a charger so my car is upside down on top of another truck and I'm trying to figure out like the best way to get down because I did have my seatbelt on so I'm like making sure when I undo my seatbelt I don't fall on my neck the car eventually rolls off and now it's on its side so I climb out go to the door man comes and I'm like man I'm like man I have

I had an accident. You know, I landed on top of your car out here. And he's like, that's my wife's truck. I've had that thing since she was in high school. And I'm just like, well, I'm sorry, bro. You know, I promise I didn't do it on purpose. He just shuts the door. I didn't ask me if I was all right.

Need a drink of water, you know, call ambulance or nothing. But luckily, when I was climbing out, a guy come riding by and asked me if I wanted him to call an ambulance. And I told him, yeah, because I really wasn't sure if I was hurt or not. But for the most part, I was good. But I did bang my backup. up some. Now, I was out of work for a period of time, and they didn't move my job, but they filled it. And so when I came back, I had to go to a different department, which I hated. And, you know,

obviously men, I'm sure you know, like when you feel like you're not the same provider, because this job was less money also, even though it was with the same company, it starts to bother you if you feel like you're not doing your part. So that kind of started like a depression in me. And so you have what was going on with her, then what was going on. going on with me. And then like the thing that really pushed it overboard was there was a friend of mine that we knew in that neighborhood we would all get together on Fridays and hang out. Well, we got together on Friday. We're hanging out. And I could tell him and his wife were fighting a little bit. But, you know, I didn't get too much into their business because they,

they weren't really wanted to tell at all like that. But you could tell there was a rift. So we leave. We're at a person's house hanging out. My wife's actually at a different couple. house in our neighborhood. And she calls me and she's like, hey, come over here where I'm at. So I'm like, all right, tell everybody by, go over there, we're hanging out. 30 minutes later, you hear this scream. And it was a scream like you knew something was wrong, like something was bad wrong. So we kind of go out to the garage, figure out which way it is. Me and my buddy run down there. And there's a woman just like rolling around in the grass. And so I finally like stop her to see who it is, what's going on. And it's the wife of the woman

that I just left where we were at. So apparently they left right after I left and went home, started fighting. Well, ultimately, whatever they were fighting about led him to commit suicide. Oh, wow. Because she tells me she's like, you know, he did it, he did it, he shot itself. And I'm like, who? She said, Chris.

And so I go in the house. My buddy had went straight on in the house. I don't know what possessed him to do that, but he did. He went straight on in the house. And so when I come in, he's got like a big open area, kitchen living room. I cut around the corner and he's laid there on the floor, my buddy's art up by his head, trying to like wrap the shirt around his head to do what he can. Ian, I tell you, it was the worst thing I'd ever seen in my life.

Like, hands down, the worst. And, you know, we called 911. Obviously, they got there. There wasn't anything they could do. You know, he did ultimately lose his life that night. But, like, the mental images of that really just started, like, bother me. And I was just like, you know, is this what arguing comes to? Is this what arguing every day lead you to?

like doing this, is this what's going to happen? And I made the decision not long after that, but I thought it was best me and my wife split up. Now, I want to be crystal clear about this. This was my decision. I told her that I didn't think we were going to work and that, you know, she was free to see whoever. We would figure it out.

We would do it amicably. And, you know, I just didn't want to fight anymore. I was like, if anything, I'd rather part now where we can stay friends, then, you know, stay together till we just literally hate each other. And she didn't want to do it. She was thinking there was ways we could work it out. But in my mind, there wasn't. Like everything was piling up, work, all of that.

You know, especially now what I just went through, I'm thinking, God, I don't want to get to that point to where I feel like that's the answer of what I got to do. And so we split up. And, you know, I left. I left her in the house where we were at. And I was like, if you stay here, that's fine. I'll continue to pay the bills. But if you start to see somebody, then we're going to have to reconsider this negotiation.

because I don't want to pay you the bills here but have another dude come by and sitting on my couch watching my TV, you know. And she was like, okay. And so a couple of months went by. This was in like July of 2017. So around October, she tells me that she did meet someone. And, you know, they're talking about possibly moving in together. And I'm just like, well, I know you ain't talking about moving into my house. And she's like, no, we're going to get somewhere else.

And so I was like, all right, well, we can, you know, you just tell me. me when you're going to do it and I'll move back in because I was staying with a guy that lived in the neighborhood. It had a spare room. So I could still be close to the kids and it wasn't as awkward. They were affected, but at this time, my son's like six and my daughter's like, I'd say 17. And how old are you? I'm 30 this time. I'm 40 now, seven years, so I'm like 33. And just so the audience knows you hadn't been arrested or anything in your whole life up until that point, nothing. No, I'd never been arrested. Speed and ticket. That was it.

Very normal. That was the first bit of tragedy and traumatic experience that you saw was that suicide. Yeah, yeah. For something of that nature, I've been around grandparents that had passed away, but, you know, that's an expected event. They had cancer and things like that. So as far as like something that's out of the blue, especially of that magnitude, that was my first experience with all that. Yeah, so your life had been normal up until that point. Yep. And then so that, like I said, compiled on the job issues plus my back issues. I'm dealing with from work. It was like I was just getting hitting from all sides. All that one. I felt like I could do better with that by myself than opposed to fighting every day because that was just another thing on the plate. And, you know, we made a decision that she was going to move out November the 1st. So I remember distinctly like it was yesterday. We walked around the neighborhood, took our kid trigger-treating.

And then that night, I finished loading up a U-Haul that had all their stuff in it. And she went her way and I went mine. Now, the neighborhood that she moved into, it's like the neighborhood where I'm from, it's one big neighborhood, but there's like seven or eight different subdivisions in the neighborhood. it. So she moved in one that was like two subdivisions back from me. So it was still close. So it was, you know, if we had to drop off kids or one thing or another, it was still close. Now we're amicable. We're speaking, but that's about it. We're not friends, you know, when hanging out, say what we got to say and move on. And which I was content with, and I think she was too at that

point because she seemed to be happy. And so November didn't really speak. December also didn't really speak, unless we had to. Coming up on Christmas, got to figure out what we're going to do is the first Christmas, you know, since the split. And I kind of just, I was in a little bit better of a headspace. I kind of come to terms with a few things, dealt with a few things,

was trying to work through my stuff on my own. And I'm just like, you know, where did a, or how's things going with you? She's like, I mean, not too great. And I'm just kind of laughing. I'm like, well, not a lot of people can put up with you type thing. And you could just tell by that little interaction that we had, there was still a little something there. You know, a little

spark left. But I still didn't jump on it at that time. I was just, you know, it's good to, it was good just to have that conversation, you know, bounce back and forth off each other. Well, we actually did go to her moms for Christmas. Now, by then, they had actually

moved in together, but then they broke, not broke it off 100%, but he moved out. So he's not staying in her residence, but they're still. Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in the crowd. But too often, life gets busy.

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talking. And so we go to her moms. We do Christmas. And we're still not 100% sure if we want to kick this thing back off. We're kicking the tires, but we're not saying, okay, we're going to do it. So still January, February, March, you know, kind of I would check in with her. She would check in with me. And so around March, we think that we're going to give it another shot.

And I'm just like, all right, so what's the status with you and him? And she's like, well, you know, we're still seeing each other, but he's not living here anymore. more. He's living at an assisted VA housing facility. I was seeing someone, but I didn't have anyone living with me. I was just seeing them. And so I'm like, well, look, if we're going to do this, we've got to cut off communication with everybody who we're seeing. That's the only way it's going to work. And so we go to her parents for Easter weekend. And we tell them, hey, we're going to get back together. We let everybody know they were extremely happy, done Easter Sunday together, leave there. We go to the beach for a couple of days. We see her aunt that lived at the beach.

She posts pictures on Facebook. You know, so there's documented proof there that we were together. We were with each other that weekend. When we come back, the deal is she's going to tell her guy on Friday that, you know, what her plans are. We're going to get back together, and I'm going to tell my girl. So we come back. I told mine, mine could have a shit less. She's on to the next dude.

I didn't speak with her Friday night. Now, our son had a soccer game Saturday morning. So we go to the soccer game Saturday morning. I'm like, all right, well, how did he take it? And she's like, well, he didn't really talk. She said he come in, said he wasn't feeling good. He went straight to bed. She's like, I'm going to tell him today after we go home from this game.

So I'm like, all right, son has a soccer game, leave, come home, and I don't hear from her for a couple hours. Then she calls. And she's like, yeah, he didn't take it too good. He got pissed. He left. But she said he's coming back. So she comes to my house when she's telling me all this.

And I'm like, well, you don't know where he went. And she's like, no, not right off. And I'm like, well, if you don't know where he went, like, if he comes by here, he sees your car here, no, it's going to cause issues. Because I didn't know what she told him, the reason she told him. I just knew she said they were breaking it off and he was upset. So I'm like, well, just go home. Let me know if anything gets out of hand or whatever and I'll, you know, do what I can, but just kind of, we don't need it coming over here yet because my son was at the house with me at the time. So she goes home.

Fast forward a couple hours later My son is at the same guy that I told you was with with me when my buddy committed suicide He's like six houses down from me My son's now at his house I haven't heard anything from my wife in a few hours He's making and I didn't find all this out till later Apparently he comes back to the house He starts getting violent

He roughs her up head butts her, pushes her against the wall Smashes her phone So at that point she's got no way to communicate he makes her get in the car to ride around the neighborhood and look for me. Well, she rides up to the house of that guy where my son's at and pulls up to the driveway, and he comes walking up to the window. Now, he knows about the situation. He pretty much was one of my best friends in the neighborhood.

He knew everything that was going on from start to finish. And he walks up to the car and he's like, you know, hey, guys, what's going on? And he's like, oh, I'm looking for Chip because when I find him, I'm going to fucking kill him. And said he's just kind of like, whoa, whoa. you know, let's not, you know, get into all that. I don't know what's going on. And he could tell that my wife was upset because he didn't understand the dynamic, but he could just tell that she was upset and obviously he's mad.

So he tells her, he's like, will you drop him off here? And he's like, well, I don't want to be left here without a ride. He's like, if I come, I'll go get my truck and I'll come back. And so he agrees. I don't know what conversation they had altogether because I wasn't there and I found out even that he said that after the fact. but she took him back home and then he drove back over there before he drove back to that guy's house he calls me on the phone I'm still in the neighborhood and he's like hey if you ride by here and

you see Liam's car here he's like don't stop and I'm like all right what's going on I mean I knew a little bit but I didn't know where it was at this point and he's like well you know Felicia was upset and I'm just getting him to come over here to try to figure out what's going on I just don't want anything going at my house so if you ride by here and you see his car here I don't want you to think anything going on behind your back, but just don't stop. And I'm like, all right, you know, I wasn't going to anyway, but I won't. So I go to my home. Now it's probably like 11 o'clock at night.

I still haven't heard from my wife. And I don't really know why, especially since he's now there. So my daughter gets off from work, goes home, and my wife uses her phone to call me. That's when she kind of informs me that he had roughed her up and broke her up. I don't even know if she told me that he roughed her up. I know she told me he broke her phone. that night. And that's why she wasn't able to get in contact with me. But she's under the impression that he's staying,

the guy's name was Jamie, that he was staying at his house and that they were good. And so I'm like, well, if he's staying there, then that's all I'm worried about. I just don't want him coming back there showing out when y'all are there. So I'm like, I'm fixing to lay down and go to bed. So I'm watching UFC. I forgot which fight it was. And then probably like 30 minutes after that, I get a text message. It's from the guy.

and I've only met this dude one time since they were together. I knew what he drove, because obviously I had to go by there and drop my son off and pick him up, and we bumped into each other at a gas station. Interaction was very short, brief. You know, we did speak, but that was pretty much the extent of it. I think I kind of, I threw a little shot in there. He's like, you know, I know the situation's fucked up,

but it is what it is, and I'm just like, well, that's your problem now, balls and I pulled it off. This was like at the beginning, so I was still a smart ass to it. Yeah. And so he sends me a text and he's like, hey, are you awake? And I said, yeah, I'm awake. And he's like, do you mind if we talk? And I'm like, no. So I'm thinking he's

going to call me. And he sends another text and he's like, I'm going to come over there if you're cool with it. He's like, no, as a matter of fact, we can just come to your buddy's house. And he's like, that way, you know you're in a safe spot. He's like, I just want some answers. I feel like I'm being lied to. And I feel like

you're going to be man enough to tell me the truth. And so I'm like, all right, I'll do that. And because it's only six hours of down, my buddy's a pretty big damn dude. So I'm not really aware. He looks like a slightly slimmer version of Braun-Strauman from WWE, like huge beard. I mean, he's a jacked dude. So I'm like, if anything gets out of hand, he'll be there. Now, mind you, the back injury that I kind of alluded to earlier, I just had a procedure on my back

to where they go in and they burn off the nerve endings. Oh, wow. I forgot the specific name of it. I think it's called an RFA. But basically, they burn the nerve endings from the spine, which alleviates pain for a little while, like six to eight months. They'll eventually reattach, but that's the point of the procedure. So I just had this done like a day or two before, so I'm still sore. So I go down there, and it's really him wanting to know how long this has been going on behind his back, I guess, so to speak, without his knowledge.

And I'm just like, man, we just kicked it off, you know, about a couple of, a couple weeks ago. I was like, I haven't talked to her. I'm playing it down. I'm dumbing it down because I don't want to piss him off and send him back over there to where not only my wife is, but my son and my daughter are. And so for about the first 30 minutes, it was a little bit back and forth, but then it kind of leveled off. And he's just like, you know, man, screw it is, what it is. And we just wound up being up like three dudes in a garage, just talking, shooting a shit. They were talking about their military careers. He was former. our Army. My buddy was former

Coast Guard. I wasn't military, so I didn't really have anything to contribute to that. But we just were, we were all talking. We were talking about our kids because he had kids of his own. I had kids of mine. My buddy had kids. And at this point, it's like 3.30. And the guy whose house were at,

he's like, man, I'm fixing to shut it down. And he was like, are you staying here? He was talking to Liam. And Liam's like, I guess. And he's like, well, he said, I might just have Chip run me home. And he asked me, my buddy let me, he said, You cool with that? I said, yeah, I'm cool with that because we didn't have been like an hour at this point.

Nothing's gotten out of hand. Nothing's gotten physical confrontational. And so we go outside. My buddy shuts his garage. I wave by. We get in a car. And he's like, you know, if I go home, we're just going to keep fighting. And I was like, she ain't got to tell me, boy, I've done it for a long time.

Because we were together that we met in 2004, the beginning, we're 2003 beginning of 2004. This is now 2017. So, or 2018, excuse me, at this point. So we had been together a long time. So I knew, I knew probably what he was going to go back into. And I was sympathetic to it. I really was. And so he's like, do you care if we just go to your house?

And he's like, we'll hang out for a little bit, let her go to sleep, and then you can run me home. I was a little hesitant when he said that. But at the same time, I knew that things had been going good. It wasn't like anything back and forth. And I'm only a few houses down. So we pull out, we go back to my house, I'm like, yeah, that's cool. And as we pull in my driveway, he starts to tell me this story, he holds up his wrist, and he shows me this bracelet that he's wearing.

And he's like, do you know why I wear this bracelet? And I was like, brother, I don't know nothing about you. Like, I know your name, and that's it. And I was saying, and that you've got kids. And he proceeds to tell me this story about somebody he's in service with that, you know, died in the in combat, and he was trying to hold his head together, the Army said he didn't do something right. And so that's why he was kicked out of the Army.

And I'm just like, you know, damn, that's terrible. And as he's telling me this, he starts crying. Like I see tears rolling down his face sitting in my car in my driveway. So I'm thinking the dude's getting a boot. He's obviously got a lot of shit on his mind. He's upset about this. I really thought that he just kind of needed somebody to talk to. I really did.

So we go in the house and we're in my house for probably an hour, hour and a half. We've got records to wear like the back door open when I was letting my dog out, the front door open when he went outside to smoke because I didn't smoke in my house, so he was going outside to smoke. So it's back and forth for an hour. You can see the alarm chimes going off. Long story short, we're talking about different things. We get on the subject to tattoos.

And he was like, has one of your son's friends' moms ever said anything to you about tattoos? And I'm like, no, I'm covered in them. And I kind of moved down my shirt. To show her this one, or show him this one. And if you can see it right here, I've got an open heart surgery scar right there. I had an open heart surgery in 2001. So he sees that. And he picks up my shirt from the bottom and like lifts it up where you can see the whole scar.

Now, at this point, Ian, he had to see the gun. It was on my hip. It wasn't like, there was no way you couldn't see it. Oh, you had a gun on you? Yeah, I had a gun on you. Yeah, I had a gun on me. want to reiterate that because that's what a lot of people say oh well you happen to have a gun on on you i was a cwp holder i was a licensed cwp holder always had been always owned guns from 18

i own guns 21 handguns probably had about 10 or so guns and the gun that i had on me was the gun that i used for carry i'd been pulled over with that gun and the gun's numbers ran why did you like to have a gun on you i would always rather need it and not have it, then, or excuse me, reverse that. I would always like to have it and not need it, than to need one and not have one. What inspired you to get it? Was it seeing crime on TV or was it seeing movies growing up? Like what made it so you felt protected by having that gun on you?

I mean, a little bit of everything, just a landscape, crime on TV, documentaries. You know, any time I've ever heard of somebody talking about an experience where there was a robbery or somebody who was. breaking in her house. The first thing they say was, I grabbed my gun. I grabbed my gun. So it was kind of like, especially in the South, it was kind of like a ride of passage. You don't have too many people in the South that didn't have guns. I remember staying at a friend of mine's house.

They had some issues where some people were racing on their streets. And like the guy went out and said something to him. It was like, look, I don't care what you do. Just don't do it here because I'm scared you're going to come through, hit my trailer, you know. And they kept doing it. And then he goes out again. and one of them fired, but they fired up in the air. So he immediately goes back in, gets his gun, and starts firing.

I don't think he was firing at him, but he was definitely firing like above the car. And I just remember saying, like, damn, like, had he not had that gun? What if they would have went from firing in the air to firing in the trailer? You know, so guns thwart a lot of stuff that could go wrong for you. Now, granted, you have to use them in the right way. That's why if you take these training classes, they train you in, okay, this is a situation where you can use one. And then here's the situation where you don't.

So were you trained fully with that gun? Yeah. Yeah, that was the gun that I used when I went and got the CWP. When you take the class, they bring you in, you have like a target. You get 50 rounds. You've got to hit like a certain percentage inside the little outline of the, you know, the body or whatever. It's like a head and, you know, a torso area. If you're outside of that, if you miss too many, then they won't let you get your qualifications.

after you pass that part, then there's like a whole list of questions and a class you have to do. So it's not like a little short thing where you just go pay some money and they print you out an ID. It's more in depth than that. And then you have your background and everything checked out.

And like I said, you didn't necessarily need that for shotguns, but when it come to handguns and you have in your CWP, then you need it all that. And there's even more specifics as far as like what states will accept other ones. So like if I got my gun from South Carolina,

CWP, I'm good, but if a crossover into Georgia or North Carolina, their laws might be different. So you have to make sure that your CWP will be qualified in the other state. I think reciprocity, I think, is the name of it. But I didn't really do too much traveling back in those days. I was mostly working, so I never had to worry about that. But again, like I said, I always had my gun on me. So he sees this gun on you or whatever happens. He lifts up your shirt.

What happens next? If he did, he didn't say anything. But I don't know how he didn't. It's obviously there. And so he's like, man, what happened there? And I said, I had an open heart surgery in 2001, you know, missed most of my senior year. I was like, I said, but I got a lot of sympathy loving off of it. You know, I'm cracking jokes.

And he's just like, man, bring it in. And you know how people, especially if I had a drink or two, you know, the bear hug you and pick you up. So he did that and immediately put me down. So I thought it was a little odd. But at the time, I'm thinking, well, maybe that's just what he does. You know, I didn't know the guy. And so he's like, where's your bathroom? And I pointed him to where the bathroom is.

Now, this time, I hadn't communicated with my wife in hours. Like, the last time I talked to her, I told her I was going to Jamie's and we were going to talk. That was at like probably 1 o'clock, you know, 12, 31 o'clock. It's now close to 6 in the morning. So I bust out of my phone real quick. I'm just like, hey, everything's good. We're at my house. So, of course, her first text was like, your house.

What the hell? And I'm just like, you know, we're good. everything's good. So he comes out of the kitchen. I'm standing with my back up to the stove, and he doesn't say a word. He walks straight up, boom, left hand up under my neck, jacks me up off the floor. I'm up on the stove because I mean, he was a pretty big strong dude, and I'm just like, what the fuck? And he's like, he looks me dead in the eyes. And he says, I'm going to fucking kill you. And you've heard that phrase to where people say they had that look in their eye. This dude's eyes looked gray. I couldn't tell you what color they were right now if you

pay me a million dollars. And I remember both. I'd never seen eyes look like color. And I was able to scoop my way down off the stove because it was like a flat top stove. So I was able to slide off. He tries to like bring his knee up to knee me in the side as best I could. I kind of twisted my body that way he didn't like really knee me in the side. And I told him I was like, dude, if you don't get the fuck off me, I'm going to shoot you. And so he cocks his hand back and he's bringing it forward. I can see it coming and I kind of lift up my chin and he clips the bottom of my chin. He doesn't get like a full shot on my face. He's aiming for the side of my jaw to try to knock me out. And when I lift it up, he clipped the chin and his momentum carried him, you know, across the hand

that he was holding me with. So he let go. And he kind of stumbles like a step or two to the left. Well, I step back. The way my kitchen is designed, I'm literally now I'm in a corner because you have the refrigerator, then it cuts down, you have the stove, then it cuts back the other way, and you got the sink. I'm in that corner. He's already heading back to me. He's going to football tackle me or whatever he's going to do.

He's charging. So I take out the gun and I fire. Boom, boom, boom. I thought it was twice because it was loud. It was in a confined kitchen and it was loud as shit. He immediately falls back. Boom, just drop. Didn't say a word.

just fell back. And so I'm just like, never, I've shot, obviously before, but never shot anybody, you know, especially in, like this. It's just been target practice or just randomly shooting in the woods before now. And so I'm just like trying to figure out what's going on, what my next move is, I look, I see my phone, I call 911. Now he's making sounds at this point. He never said words after that. He's just making sounds. Is there blood? Like when you shoot someone, is it like the movies where there's blood everywhere? What's it look like? In my case, it wasn't.

Now, a lot of that has to do with where you shoot them, the magazine or the rounds you're using, the type of weapon, all those things play a factor. My situation, I had a Smith & Wesson 9mm. The rounds were full metal jacket rounds, so they weren't like hollow points. There were target rounds, basically is what they were. So all of them were through and through. Now, excuse me, one of them didn't go through. All of them were in the center mass area, which is where they trained. you to shoot center mask because people will say

well why don't you try to shoot him in the leg and I've heard people say that to police officers why not shoot him in the leg. Odds are unless you're like a really good marksman if you try to shoot somebody in the leg especially if you're under you know stress you're probably going to miss. And this happened fast

like you didn't have five minutes to plan oh no no no no this is quick like describe that feeling of like that flight or fight adrenaline like you probably froze up and you just have to go. Yeah I definitely when As soon as he, you know, puts his arm around or, you know, arm around my throat or a hand around my throat, excuse me, and says that, I mean, like, I can see in his eyes, he's not kidding. Like, I knew he wasn't joking.

Then when you say, I'm going to kill you, like, you know, as men, we have this, you know, bravado. And you might text somebody something. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Talk a little trash. Even in person, you might say something to somebody. But when you put hands on another man, like, that's another level. That's, you know, all bets are off. And again, like I said, I.

I didn't know this guy. So I've got to take him in his word. You look me in mind and tell me you're going to kill me and you already got your hands on me. I got to take you at your word. So it's either me or you, and I was going to do everything I could while I was standing in that kitchen to make sure it wasn't me that wasn't going to walk out. Was there an opportunity to fire one less bullet or it just happened too quick where your finger's on the trigger? It happened too quick because it was only I thought it was only two. When I made the 911 call, I thought it was only two.

because to answer your question earlier, you said, is it like what it was in the movies? No, there wasn't like a blood splatter out back or nothing like that. Now, I hit him in the head. I'm sure there would have been a lot more mess than what it was, but everything was center mass. So when he falls straight back, I pick up the phone when I call 911. That's exactly what I tell him. I said, hash, got a guy. And this is a key point.

I said friend in the 911 call because I didn't know what else to say. I didn't have time to explain the whole situation. So in the 911 call, I go, I had a friend of mine in my house. We were getting along. He flipped on me, tried to attack me, said he was going to kill me. I had to shoot him. I shot him twice in the chest. And that's verbatim.

I'm not saying that's word for word, but that's verbatim of what happened. And I can get you a copy of the 911 call. But that friend of mine came up so much after that. Why did he shoot his friend? He wasn't my friend. I just didn't really want to be like, okay, well, let me tell you this. whole story. You know, I wanted him to get somebody there and try to help him. I didn't want to kill him. I didn't know at that point that I had. I knew he was still alive because he was making

noises. And so she starts directing me on what to do. She's like, can you see where his interest wounds are? So I pull up his shirt. I see two of them, which is another reason why I only thought there was two. She said, can you get a towel, put it over it? So I run down to my bathroom, the bathroom he had just come out of, jerk the towel, go back, put it over there. And that's really about all I could do. Like I was, I didn't know how to do CPR or anything like that. She's asking me to ask questions. He's not responsive.

He's only making noises. What I've heard from other people now is what was called the death rattle. Just kind of like sounds as the body slowly dying off and everything's shutting down. And she's like, the 911 ambulance is on the way. And also they had notified the authorities. The authorities are on the way. And she's like, where's the gun? I was like, the gun's on the counter.

And she's like, well, can you please have it unloaded laying on the counter? And I'm like, yeah, so I step up, unload the gun, leave it on the counter. And finally, the first arriving officer comes, and she's like, I need you to go out with your hands up. So I'm on the phone. I go out, hands up. He cuffs me, and he's like, you're not under arrest. We just got to see what's going on, surveyed situation. Ryan Reynolds here from Mittmobile, the message for everyone paying big wireless way too much.

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I'm like, okay, so he passes me off to the second officer that pulls up. This is a female. So she puts me in the back of the car. and I'm just sitting there. Mine is still spinning what's going on. They didn't take my phone from me at this time. So I was able to kind of twist back,

get my phone out, and I texted my wife. I'm like, hey, we started fighting. I shot them. And I couldn't even tell what she texted me back. One of the female officers seen me, so she seen me on my phone. She grabbed my phone from it. And so I didn't know if she got it or, you know,

what the situation was. But by now it's like six, 645, 7 in the morning. Got two cop cars here. Then the ambulance pulls up. And then it's just one right after the other. Cop car, cop car. SUV, cop car.

And they're lining the street. And I live in a neighborhood to where it's like a house every five feet. You know, you only got five feet a yard. Then it's another house. Real cookie cutter neighborhood. So people are starting to get up Sunday morning for church. This is all a Saturday night. Everybody's looking.

They see me in the back of the cop car. My neighbor comes out. She's asking what's going on. Am I good? or the kids in the house, and I'm just like trying to talk to her through the glass. And the female cop comes back over. I did see the ambulance pull up. I see him put him in the ambulance, and they drive off.

So I don't know at this point. I don't know if he's alive, if he's dead, what the situation is. The female cop comes back over, and she reads me my rights. And, you know, obviously, you've had that done yourself. She asked me if I want to answer any questions, and I tell him no. And that was it. It was shut down. So at that point, I'm thinking I'm going to jail.

I'm in that car another two hours. Just in your driveway? Yeah, just sitting right in my driveway. How are you feeling? Like, is your heart beating? Oh, out my damn chest. I didn't know what was going on. And a part of me is thinking I'm not in trouble because I didn't, I was in my house.

It was my gun. Like, he attacked me. He said he was going to kill me. Like, you know, I'm thinking I acted in self-defense, so I'm good. But it's still the experience of it all. adrenaline pumping, you know, heart's still beating like crazy. And I'm just sitting in there and all these cops are walking around the yard and they're talking and I see them pointing to here, pointing there.

I don't know what they're saying. So that's driving me crazy. I'm like, I want to, you know, start trying to help them figure out exactly what happened because I don't know what they know. I did see at some point my wife pulled up. So she's talking to him. So they're still conversating. And then finally, I've been in his car like two and a half, three hours. I'm not sure what the time was.

had to use the bathroom. And so I kind of nodded to one of the cops to come over. And I was like, man, I got to use the bathroom. And he's like, you got to hold it. I'm like, brother, there ain't no holding. Like, I'm either going to go in this car or I can go in the yard or whatever, but like, I got to use the bathroom. And he's like, is this your house? I said, yes, this is my house. I live here. So he lets me in the house, and I go use the bathroom. And he said, we're somewhere you can change into some different clothes. And I sit upstairs. My bedroom's upstairs. So I go up, We changed clothes, give them everything that I had on. I think they took everything but my underwear, and they bagged it up.

Then I put on new clothes. We walked outside. So I'm thinking I'm still going to jail because they had read me my rights. So we get outside, and this one detective is a male. He comes up and he's like, is there somewhere you can go while we finish our investigation? And I'm like, yeah, I can probably go to one of my buddies around the corner or something. Not that I was voluntarily wanting to go to jail, but it was just, kind of, you know, it caught me off guard. And so by then, my mom's been notified. She lived like two

hours away. She's there. And so I was just like, yeah, I'll be at two, two, two, whatever the street name was, you know, come find me when you need me. That's where I'll be. And so at this point, now the pressure's kind of off. I think I'm good, because I'm like, if they wanted to take me in, they'd have done it. So I'm over there telling him what's going on. The whole neighborhood's starting to find out at this point with Facebook and everything else. The, the words traveling. and I'm over there probably like an hour and a half. My mom's, you know, with me. She's obviously upset knowing that everything just happened.

And then the SUV comes pulling up. I go up to the SUV and he's like, we're done what we got to do over there. He said, when can you come in and talk to us? And I said, well, I'm not coming in without a lawyer. And he was like, well, who you got as a lawyer? And at the time, it was the guy that I was using for my divorce attorney. And he's like, well, we know him. We'll set up a meet and we'll go from there.

And I'm like, all right, so I'm good to go back home. And he said, yeah, I was like, was there any mess, anything that's got to be cleaned up? And he said, I don't think so. He said, but that's on you anyway. So we don't do that. And I'm just like, all right. And apparently that's true. I guess the cops don't have any duty to clean up anything.

So whether it's a suicide or whatever the case may be, the mess is solely on the homeowner to get cleaned up. Depending on the severity, that's when you would call like a, you know, a high-tech cleaning crew to come out there and do it. So we go back home. I come in the kitchen. and this is kind of to go to your question earlier again, there's like some very small amount of smudged blood on the floor. Like my mom got it up with two paper tiles, and that was it. The only other thing wrong was one of the bullets went and struck my refrigerator door

and ricocheted to the wall. Other than that, that was pretty much it. You couldn't tell nothing that happened in the house. So I'm wrapping my mind around everything. Didn't sleep that whole first night. Didn't really sleep much the second night. Monday morning, I go meet my lawyer. I basically tell him everything that happened.

He writes a statement. Then later on he called me, he said, hey, our statement answered all their questions, so we should be good to go. And I'm like, all right, cool. So I'm thinking we're done. I'm out of work at this point because of the back surgery that I've had. Works obviously heard.

So I call them. I'm like, hey, I know you probably heard. I'm still planning on coming back. week, you know, just letting you know everything's good. And I was like, yeah, well, I'm glad you're okay. You know, we'll see you next week. Now, at this point, do you know the guy died? Yes, I found out later on that first day that he did pass away.

Apparently when he got to the hospital, the word was once he arrived, he had a 0.1 chance of living. And that didn't, you know, that didn't come through. And he died at the hospital not long after he arrived. How'd that make you feel when you heard that news? it was another layer of just like me getting hit with a brick. Like, because I didn't want to kill that man. And to this day, what I look like, what I look at the situation as, is I had to survive someone killing me that was trying to kill me.

You know, I can only imagine what somebody that hits somebody with a car things, you know, this driving drunk or something like that, because that person didn't have a choice. They made a bad choice. They hit somebody and they killed them. my situation was different because this guy was threatening to kill me, and I had to defend myself. So that's what I've kind of lined my mind to wrap around,

is I didn't kill a man that, you know, was an innocent man. You know what I'm saying? He was trying to do harm to me, so I had to do what I had to do. And he was in your own home. Yeah, in my own home. And like I said, again, he didn't say I'm going to beat your ass. He didn't say I'm going to, you know, F you up. He said, I'm going to kill you.

like that's a very specific word. Now, when you think about it, looking back on it now, do you focus on, well, if I never tried to reconcile with my wife, I wouldn't be here, or do you focus on if I never invited him into my home, I wouldn't be here? Because one kind of triggered the other, and depending on which way you want to look at it. The reconciliation, I think, was probably going to happen. I mean, look, how many people do we know that break up and get back together?

I mean, Jennifer Lopez just got back together with Ben Affleck. When she broke up with A-Rod, A-Rod didn't try to go beat down Ben's door with a baseball bat. You know what I'm saying? That happens all the time. So I think as an adult, especially if you're getting into a relationship knowing that someone was on the rebound, a part of you has to expect that they might want to go back to that person. Now, sometimes they don't. But that's just part of being an adult.

You know, I've been the guy before me and my wife, I've been that rebound guy. And then when they wanted to go back, I understood it was a little. all cool. Everybody, I think, needed a break in this situation. It sucks to be the rebound guy, though. Yeah, it does suck. But it's hard to compete with the person that has history. Yeah, you can't. And me and her, you know, child,

we had children together, you know, happy times, great times, moved down there, her father passed. I mean, we had so much history that, like you said, it's hard to, it's hard to go against that. And as far as they invited him back, I didn't invite him. He invited

himself. I let, I, I, I went along with it. But I felt like it was better to do that and defuse the whole situation than to send him back over there where at that point, I don't know what could have happened. Because I wasn't going over there with him. And he's in there with my wife. He's obviously not in a great headspace. And he's also in there were my two kids. And there was alcohol involved.

Yes. He had been drinking previously to that night as to how much I wasn't privy to. once we got to my buddy's house earlier that night, he drank a couple of beers, and then when we were at my house, we each done two shots apiece. And how long were him and your wife together for? It wasn't that long, right? No, they met in October of 2017, and this was April of 2018 when everything happened. So not long. Yeah, not like a handful of months.

They probably met a little bit before then, but by the time they were actually going to in together. They moved in together November the 1st of 2017. So they probably met each other. It had to be between July and November. What's that first conversation with your wife like after this incident? I mean, well, obviously she's asking me what happened. And, you know, she's doing the same thing you are. She's like, you know, what if we hadn't have done this or what if we hadn't have done that? And I'm just like, look, if that was what was on his mind was he wasn't going to be satisfied with the resolution. Like he would have done it regardless. He could have done it when I maybe I wasn't paying attention. He could have got the drop on me somewhere.

He could have done something to you. How many times that we read in the paper where a man, you know, got dumped, and then he went and just killed the woman and possibly kids or whatever else. So another thing about this guy is because of that issue, I told you with his buddy, he was kicked out of the army and was diagnosed with PTSD. He was on a lot of prescription medications, including Prozac and other things. So not only was the... on prescription medications. He was also drinking. He was also on a cycle of steroids.

That night at their home, before he roughed her up, he actually shot and injected himself with steroids. The cops collected that from the trash can at their home. Now, they didn't want to admit that it was steroids that come out later after Sled South Carolina law enforcement come back and brought it, you know, gave the report of what it was. So they knew right off the bat that they had a guy that was, you know, just gotten broken up with.

He was on prescription pills because there was a lot. I'm talking, there must have been 20 bottles of pills with his name on it. And he was drinking. And he was on steroids. And he's getting a boot. So the evidence was kind of there who had the issue. Did you have any anger towards him, though, because he attacked your wife? Very, well, I didn't know that.

I didn't know he attacked her until later. Oh, you didn't know. This is all afterwards. Yeah. I didn't find out that he attacked her until after, when I started telling her what happened, she said, well, he had. attacked me earlier in the night. If you had known beforehand that he attacked her, would you have went to that house, your friend's house for that meeting? No. Would you have called the cops or

what would you have done? Oh yeah, yeah, definitely called the cops. But she didn't tell me, because she knew that I would have either called the cops or maybe had have been mad enough to go down there and, you know, say something. But she also knew that I wasn't in the physical condition to do anything about it either. So she wasn't going to say anything. I think the way she looked at it is if he just left and then we were going to, you know, do what it, get back together, then it was better that way. He could go his own way. We could go ours.

But I don't think that was on his agenda. So a couple days go by and you think everything's in the clear. Everything's like the storm settled. Yeah. We're looking at probably Wednesday of that week. Like four days after? Yeah. Yeah, Sunday morning was the shooting.

I go Monday, answer the questions. Tuesday, Wednesday. So you have it roughly, you know, three to four days after. My lawyer calls me around 4 o'clock. I see his name pop up, answer to fun. I'm like, hey, what's up, buddy? He's like, I have bad news. That's not ever something you want to hear come from your lawyer,

especially not in this case. And he's like, they're charging you with murder. And I'm like, why? And he was like, I don't know. He's like, everything in your statement, you laid it out, it makes sense. He was like, the only thing I can try to see is that they're trying to paint this is like a love triangle and you was killing him to get your wife back. And I'm like, but we were getting back together anyway.

Like, there was no need for that. Like, I can see if this had happened right after they met. And I was upset. I was like, they've been together for months. And he's like, they didn't give me a reason why. They just said they're charging. He said, you've got to turn yourself into March 7 o'clock or 12 o'clock at Hill Finkley Detention Center.

And I'm just like, all right, I have to call you back. And so I hung up with him and I called some friends and told him what was going. on and I was like, who do I need to call? Who's the best lawyer? And everybody come back with the same answer. Andy Savage. Andy Savage. I mean, I ask people from all walks of life. People from other states were telling me to call Andy Savage. Anyone with the last name Savage sounds like a great lawyer. Exactly. And so I knew Andy. He had been in the news because he represented, um, do you remember the Walter Scott shooting to where the guy was running away and the cop shot him in the back? like a good number of times.

So Andy was Slager's attorney. The cops? The cops? And he got him off of the state charges. Then the federal come and picked it up. I know that video looks horrible. But if you block out that video and actually listen to the case, they made a very good case. I don't want to get too deep in the weeds on that.

That's a whole other show. But they made a very good case. But the state come in, they got him off the state, the feds come in, they picked it up. He did wind up going to prison. He's in somewhere in Colorado, but he's at like a cop prison. He's not in the worst place. Isn't it crazy how you're going to be found not guilty of the state and then the feds could find something just to get you? Yeah, and that's exactly what it was.

And you had people, like racial tensions were high because the cop was white and the guy was black. So that played a big factor in it. There was people outside. There was protests. There was a lot going on during the. that time. And so there was a lot of media coverage on it. So that's the only reason why I knew who Andy was. Other than that, I never needed a lawyer. I didn't know anything about him. And I call a secretary that night. This is after hours by the time I started finding out who to

call. I leave a message and she calls me back. And she's like, hey, what's the situation? So I kind of briefly run through. And I'm like, I'm supposed to be turning myself into jail tomorrow at 12 o'clock. And she's like, I just talked to Andy. He said, be there at 7 o'clock in the market. And I'm morning. So I'm like, all right, I'll be there. So my mom, my wife, and me went there seven o'clock in the morning. We were there. I run down the story and he looks at me and he kind of throws his hands up and he's like, so why are we here? I'm like, your guess is as good as mine, boy, I don't know. And he's like, it sounds like you done what anybody would have if somebody was threatening to kill him and put hands on him in their house. I was like, that's what I'm thinking. And he was like,

is somebody running for reelection down there in Berkeley County? Like, what's going knowing. I'm like, I don't know. Only thing I know is I'm supposed to go turn myself in at 12 o'clock. And this is the kind of stroke this guy had. He looks at me and he says, nah, he goes out of room, he makes a phone call, he comes back, he's like, your surrender got pushed to Friday. He's like, it'll probably get pushed until Monday, but I wanted Friday just to be sure we had some time. And I'm like, well, so in my mind, that's just a couple days. I don't have to be in jail, so I'm a stack. And I'm like, all right, cool. So we sit there that whole day and we break out everything. Like we tell them story after story. My wife's telling him where she met him, all of that.

As we're telling stuff for me and she's telling stuff on him, they're printing out stuff. It was like something out of a movie. Like his whole team's working. They're getting records for this, records for that. Oh, I got him. He was here, here, he lived here. You know, he's fired from this. I mean, it was unlike anything I'd ever seen. I'd never been involved in anything like this. And I'm just my head spinning. Well, then we get to the point to where they talk about how much this is going to cost. And I understood why, you know, all this was as efficient as it was.

Because at the end, he goes, well, let's talk about payment. And he's like, it's 50,000 for me to take the case. And he's like, I'll need another 15 to go ahead and start the retainers to do, you know, investigations. My investigations, you know, do interviews with people involved, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm looking at like, you know, 65 grand. right off the rip. And I didn't have that kind of cash on hand, not at that time. So my wife, man, bossed up. I mean, two credit cards. Bam, she done like, you know, 40 grand, two cards, 20 grand on two cards. You could just pay a lawyer with a credit card. You could pay the lawyer with a credit card,

yeah. Wow. And so she done that. My mom done the other piece of it, and we paid him in full, and we paid him in full. So we was like, you know, we don't want to have to worry about paying you later on or doing payments like it's paid in full. Let's just get this going. And, and, And so I'm still, this is two or three days after the fact. Now I know I got to turn myself in on Friday. By the time I get home, he calls me and he's like, hey, I got the surrender pushback till Sunday at 1 o'clock. Enjoy your weekend.

We'll try to get you out of there. And he told me before I left, he's like, I typically like for my clients to sit in jail for a little while. And I kind of look at him and I'm, and he's like, reason being, he's like, it's hot, it's in the news, everybody's looking. but in your case, it's a little different. He's like, I think I'm going to go ahead and try to get a bond for you, ASAP. Now, a bond for murder has to be seen by the circuit court.

A magistrate can't give you a bond for that. Luckily, circuit court was in the county that I was in that week. Had we missed it, I would have had no choice but to sit in there until the circuit court rolled back around and bounced from county county. So he was like, we're going to have a bond hearing Monday morning. You're going to go in on Sunday. your bond hearing is going to be Monday morning. I'm like, well, you can't ask for a better scenario than that.

You know what's crazy? They let you sell surrender out of murder charge, first time offender. I'm a first time offender for fraud and they damn near kicked by door in with every federal agency armed, hauling me out on handcuffs. And I've heard stories like that. I don't get it. I'm like, I even had a buddy who's like, so let me get this straight. He's like, they're going to charge you for murder, but just. to tell you, hey, take the weekend, come by Sunday evening.

So did nonchalah about it. Yeah. I've never heard anything like this. I haven't either at the time. Obviously, I had any personal experience, but anybody that I knew that had done something wrong, I'm like you, they got, you know, their door kicked in or, you know, house raided or whatever the case may be. I just assumed this was normal.

And I'm finding out the more and more I talk to people is definitely not normal, the way it was operating. So my family gets together, and I don't want to use it. the term party, but like everybody was together. We all cooked out Saturday night. So it's a party. Yeah, maybe. But like, we're hoping for the best because I don't know if I'm going to get bond, you know,

because if they deny it, I'm in there for God knows how long. So there's a chance. Yeah, there's a chance I don't come out, and we're aware of that. So everybody comes down, eat. Sunday morning, we go get in the car, and it was like that scene from Ray Leota and Goodfellas where he's going to jail. He gets in the car and he tells the drivers, like, take me to jail. I had to tell my mom, I'm like, all right, take me to jail.

And so me and her are in the back seat, my wife's in the back seat, mom drives us, they drop me off. And here's like the prison aspect, or a jail aspect, excuse me. We go in there and I've never been in before. So I don't know what to do. Only thing I know of what I've seen on TV, don't talk, if you don't got to, just keep your mouth shut. So I go in there, I sit on the bench, and there's this biker in there. You can just tell he's in there for DUI. He's slurring his words.

And he looks at me and he's like, bench of shame, huh? And I'm just like, yeah, I guess you could say that. Still not wanting us talk a whole lot. We go to the holding, go in. He's still trying to, he sits right beside me. Yep, yep, yep, yep, talking the whole time. I was like, all right, well, at least this is making the time pass. I knew I was going to be called to the magistrate,

but I also knew there wasn't nothing they were going to be able to do. It was just a formality. So they called me, him, and this other young kid that had gotten busted for like a weed charge. We come out, they handcuffs. Wrist to wrist, wrist to ankle, all little shimmy our way down the hall, sit on the bench. They do the kid first. He's like, all right, you got simple possession, PR bond, next guy. You got a DUI, second offense, you know, whatever his bond was.

My last name is Williamson, so obviously I'm going to be last at anything going alphabetically. and he's like, you're charged with murder of murder and possession of weapon during a violent crime. You can't be seen by me. You have to see the circuit court. And after he says that, that guy that's sitting on that bench kind of like looks up at me. Like, what the fuck? And we go back to the room. He picks up his stuff and just moves to the other side of the room.

Don't talk to me no more the rest of the time we're in there. So in a way, that kind of worked out. I know that I'm getting bond court that Monday. So I'm just trying to make it through that night and just focus on like having a good Bond hearing. Can't sleep in there. The lights don't turn off. It's holding. So every time somebody new comes in, they pile them there on top of you. Like, I don't know. I want to say like at 5.30 in the morning, like eight guys come in. They were all together. All of them were drunk. And I think they were Spanish because they were speaking Spanish and they were loud.

So, I mean, it was just impossible to sleep plus all the other stuff that you got weighing on your mind. So I got no sleep that first night. The next day, Bond Court was at like nine. So they come get me, and the walk is like you're walking like underground hooked to the courtroom where the courtroom is. That was the most intimidating walk I ever took in my life. It looked like I was walking into like a castle or something. Like it's those big stone block walls that are just real intimidating. And it's like going over a slight hump, going back down. And it was just like, from the rip, I was just like, oh, God.

And we go into this room and there's probably like six guys in there. Now, I'm still in my street clothes of what I got arrested in. all these guys are in jumps, like orange, green, blue, depending on where they're at. And I sit down and I'm listening to guys like saying how when they get to where they're going, they're going to try to kill so-and-so. And one guy's saying he's going to go to Atlanta. They think he's going to testify against somebody, but he's just going because Atlanta's got better food. I mean, it's all these stories.

One guy is like saying he's got to see the judge because he set his sister on fire. And I'm just sitting over there like, oh, my God. Like, where are the hell am I at? And I'm not saying a word. Letting everybody do their talking. And one guy asked me, he was like, you here for family court? And I was like, I said something like that. And the other guy's like, nah, you're from Kane Bay.

And I kind of cut my eyes. That's the neighborhood that I live in. I kind of cut my eyes. And he's like, we got the news in here. We see what's going on. And I was like, all right. And he's like, you got a lawyer? And I said, yeah, I got a lawyer.

And he's like, good. He's like, don't use no public defender, not for what you in there for. And I was like, no, sir. And that was it. And so I wait my turn. I go in. They bring me in. This was the biggest courtroom I'd ever seen in my life.

Like huge, huge flags on each side. Judge is like way up there at the top. I mean, it was massively intimidating. And we go in. And obviously the state is trying to say why I'm a danger to the community. I need to be locked up. I don't need to be let out. I'm this.

I'm that. I'm a murderer. Yada, yada. My lawyers, obviously, doing everything to combat that. They do their thing. and any trial that I'd ever seen for a bond hearing, the judge makes a motion right there. Bond granted, bond denied.

She bangs her gavel down and she says, I'll make my decision and let you know next case. And I'm standing there. I'm cuffed up. I'm standing up. I'm standing up. I looked at my lawyer and I'm like, what hell does that mean?

And he's like, I guess that means you'll let us know. And they're taking me back already, back to the room. And I'm looking, the guy, the guard is with me. And I'm like, so what does that mean? She'll let me know. I was like, how long does that usually take? He's like, I should probably have a decision in a week or so. I'm like a week or so.

Like, shit. We go in there, and I don't know what to think. Like, I didn't even talk about it to anybody, but I don't know what to think because I'm just usually used to be in a resolution right off the bat. And so we go back to the holding. I'm in there probably about an hour. So I'm like, all right, somebody's got to know something by now called my wife. She's like, hey, you got Bond. Right away.

They already knew it. I don't know why she didn't say it, but they already knew it. And she's like, but you're probably not going to get out to tomorrow because of the paperwork's got to process. I'm like, the long as I'm getting out, I'm good. I can do another night if I got to do another night. Mind you, I think I'm doing another night and holding. One of the guys that was in there had come back in from setting his sister on fire and was like ecstatic that he only got 15 years because he was facing like 30. So he was super happy he only got 15 years.

And they were all going back to like regular pods. So I go back to holding and there's still guys that are getting released throughout the night on up until like eight, nine o'clock at night. I'm not got my hopes up because my wife said it would probably be tomorrow. But a little bit of me is like maybe they'll get it done. Maybe I'll get out of here tonight. Probably like 10 o'clock. The door comes open and it's like, Williamson, I'm like, I sprung off that bunk, like down, almost jump, slam out the door.

And the cops like, he kind of looks at me for a minute and he's like, you're Leah's dad. Andrew Lee is my stepdaughter. And I said, yeah. And he's like, my wife taught her gymnastics. And I'm just like, well, hi. And he's like, we're transferring you to a pod. And I'm like, looking at him, I'm like, I'm supposed to be getting out of here in the morning, dude. And he's like, yeah, you might be.

He's like, but it's just protocol. Once so many people come in, you got to get transferred out. So I'm like, all right, well, you know, whatever. I guess you tell me what to do. So they take me, they give me my jumpsuit. You know, they give you a little cup and your three and one body wash. shampoo, toothbrush, toilet paper, the whole nine yards, shower shoes, and they sent me to the pod. So it's like two big pods stacked on top of each other, just open rooms, beds on each side.

I didn't know where to go, which one to do. I just went to the top. I was trying to find an open bottom bunk. Of course, that's not going to happen. Oh, they don't assign beds? They just go wherever. Yeah. The first room you went in was like a big open room with those huge round plastic chairs and then a TV.

and then you had a room at the bottom and then a stairwell on to the top that went to a room at the top and it's just beds on both sides the middle is open you just find somewhere they didn't tell me where to go so I walk all the way to the end

all the bottom ones are full I'm coming back and I see the guy that had set a sister on fire and he's way laying there and he kind of just you know nods and throws his finger up and I'm like hey I guess I'll choose this guy and I'm like I said you care ever get to the top bunk

he's like no go ahead So I climb up there and I'm just kind of, now it's like a whole different environment to take in as opposed to the, you know, the holding. And some guy comes up immediately and I'm just like, oh shit. And he's like, do you need a job? And I'm like, no, I don't think so. And he's like, so you're getting bond?

I'm like, yeah, I'm getting out tomorrow. And he's like, all right, when I ain't going to worry about putting you on no job. I didn't even know what he meant. I was just like, nah, I don't need that. And so I'm listening to all these guys talk. And surprisingly, the conversation. was not what you would think. Like it was, they were trying to tell this one kid like he needed to do better.

He had a lot of talent. So when he got out, he needed to focus on this. Other guys are saying, all right, with our records, we got to do something like, you know, open up a landscape in business that we can do the word, don't matter if we have a, there was a lot of positive talk of those guys trying to reinforce one another to do better when they get out. Just some of the things that I've seen, like some of the vents that were like, it's cold in there.

I'm sure you know. It's very cold. And they were wetting, like, napkins and paper towels and then throwing it up to the top. We used to do that so it would stop the airflow. Yeah, so they were doing that. You had a guy that had a bag, zip-lock bag, with water in it. And then he put that into a pillowcase. He was using that as like a dumbbell.

And I'm just sitting up there on the top. I'm taking all this in. Finally, one of the guys looks at me, and he's like, you know, you got some nice ink. And I'm like, you know, thanks. And he's like, did you get it done around here? I said, yeah. He asked me my artist's name, like nine guys in there knew who my tattoo artist was. So that was kind of like an introduction into the conversation, I guess, without me having to put myself in it.

And we talked for a little bit and everything was cool. And I finally decided I wasn't going to take a shower. I was just like, yeah, I'm not going in there. I don't really know what's up with that. I'm going to just hammer it out. Well, I was like, I think I am. And so I get up to go head to the shower and the guy's like, you know how the shower works, right? He's like, you know how to work the little piece in the back, and I'm just like, yeah.

I think they all assumed I'd been in there before. Like, I don't know if it was... You looked apart with the tattoos, the beard, the beard, the beard, and the tats. But I had never been, so I go in there, and it's like when you press the button, it automatically starts to come back out, and it only lasts for like 10 seconds. And it was probably cold. Oh, cold. God, cold as hell. And the piece they were talking about, there was like a piece of plastic that you could jam in there

to keep it from cutting off. That way you could just shower. I couldn't figure out of work it. So I was taking like showers in like six minute increments, you know, getting what I could. I come out, I make it through the night. You know, everything was good. Nobody really, you know, said anything. It wasn't as bad as stories that I've heard.

Again, I was only in, you know, county jail. Next morning, I get bond. I get out. The dudes that come up to me when I was getting bond, they were like, man, can I have this? Can I have that? Like, they were wanting everything that I had. I didn't care. I was giving it away, but like, in a part of me when I left was like, that's such a huge deal for people in there to get an extra roll of toilet paper and extra cut.

Yeah, they collect those extra hygiene stuff. They like that. And that just state issued shit and they like to have that. Yeah. And you could tell it meant so much to them just to get that. And I was just like, at least, you know, they got the profit of that. I was like, y'all going to have everything. I got on, bro.

I don't care. How much was your bond? $100,000 for the murder, $50,000 for the weapons charge. That's it for a murder. That's it. For a murder. And you just had to put $10. 10% down or how does that work?

Yeah, it was usually 10%, which would have been about 15 grand. My lawyer, again, the stroke that he had worked with a bondsman. He told him the deal and he's like, if there's anything you can do to kind of help him out, it'd be greatly appreciated. So it was like 12,000 to get me out. And which we come up with that, paid the 12,000. I got out. Part of the bond was I had to give up any weapons that I own, couldn't have any weapons,

couldn't leave the state, confined to the house for house arrest. Oh, you're on house arrest? Yep. The whole five years that you... Whole five years. Because you were fighting your case for a long time. Oh, yeah. Ankle monitor?

No, they never gave me an ankle monitor. So you were just on house arrest for five years? Couldn't work? No, I could work. I could go to work. I could go to... Did your job take you back? No, I was going to get to that.

Okay. Because all this kind of flowed in. So, you know, supposed to get arrested. Suppose to turn in on Wednesday, turning on Sunday. have bond here on Monday. I get out Tuesday. I was supposed to be at work Monday morning. So I get out.

That's the first thing I'm concerned about is like, all right, well, I know I got all this money. I got to pay back to people. Like, let me go figure out what's going on with the job. So I called him, told him I was out. And he's like, well, come in tomorrow at, you know, Wednesday. I think it is, you know, come at 9 a.m. When they told me that, I was kind of like, uh-oh, because I'm supposed to be there at like 6. And so I go at 9 a.m.

We go into the manager's office, and he's like, all, we're going to go across the street to the GM's office. I'm like, well, this don't look good. So we go over there and that's the first thing he tells me. He's like, man, he's like, I know you got a lot going on, but, you know, unfortunately, we got to let you go. And I'm just like, what the hell? And he asked me kind of like what happened and I give him the story. And he's like, well, I can't imagine what you're going through. And I'm like, well, imagine getting fired on top of it.

Like, you ain't doing me any favors here. What was their reasoning just because of what was going on? Because of the charges. That was their reasoning. Isn't that crazy? You're not found guilty yet. And they fired you. Yeah.

And I'm like, I'm not even in, I can see if I was going to be in jail for a year. You know, you've got to have somebody to do the job. But like, obviously, if things go bad for me, you're not going to have to worry about fire me because I'm not coming back. Like, I'm going to die in there, you know, they're wanting to give me life. But yeah, just fire me because of the charges. That's insane. How is the neighborhood looking at you? A lot of the neighborhood.

The people that knew me knew me. So they had my back. The people that didn't know me were obviously going off room. rumor mill. So the rumor mill is running rampant. Like, oh, he come home. He found a guy in bed with his wife. And I'm just like, we hadn't lived together in, you know, six months. Like, you know, that's just, that's just neighborhood chatter. And like I said, the people that knew me were cool with it because they were like, if he can't, he doesn't have a job. He's on house arrest. They were sending the kids down to hang out with me because this was like right around

spring break. I had nine kids in the house, like the week that I just got out of murder charge. There's kids everywhere. How does your kids feel towards you while you're going through this? My daughter knew a lot of what was going on. She was very supportive. She understood. My son was like six or seven. I talked to him and gave him a brief summary of what was going on, but he never really talked about it. He was just like, he said somebody at school told him that I had shot somebody, and he said his reply was he did it in self-defense. And I'm like, well, that's what you say anytime. I mean, anybody says anything to you. And to this day, and he's 14 now, we hadn't really talked about it.

And he hadn't asked. I just kind of left it at that. And it doesn't seem to have bothered him either. He's, you know, a very active kid, plays football, all that good stuff. So I don't think it's affected him, at least not that I know of or that he's let me on to know that it has. I mean, he must listen to your interviews and research. I mean, it's, you know, this day and age looking at the news. Oh, yeah.

He was telling me not too long. him and his buddies were Googling their parents. And I'm just like, better watch that Google and me because you're going to come up with some articles that, you know. Imagine all those like poured stars and only fan stars and stuff when their kids start Googling them. Oh, man.

It's just a whole different generation. Yeah, the stuff is going to come up. And that's the thing. That's what I was telling them. I was like, all right, they start Googling me, man. You might have some questions come your way. And he kind of laughed it off. But he knows now, obviously, it's over.

so, but he never wanted to have a conversation about it. My daughter knew everything that was going on. She understood what happened that night. She understood what was going on. And she was just graduating. So when I get out, like I said, they're telling me, you know, you can only go to a doctor, a lawyer, church, and a job. That's it.

Can't leave the state. Can't do nothing. Well, my daughter's fixing to graduate literally in like a month. And so I asked for permission to go to the graduation. and he's like, you can go to the graduation, but you've got to come straight home. Can't go out, can't go to dinner, can't go eat or nothing like that. And so I'm at the graduation. I'm watching her walk.

I can't even enjoy this graduation because in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, am I going to be here to see my son graduate? You know, it's, I'm out. Thank God. Definitely easier to be out and try to fight your case than to be in jail and trying to fight it. So I thank the good Lord for me being out. but also it's like a huge like piano just hanging over your head

not knowing what's going to happen. That's scary, the unknown. Yeah, the unknown. It's terrifying. And so the process then is starting to, you know, the legal side is starting to unfold. They're going to everybody. They're getting the interviews.

They're building their case. I'm sure the state was building theirs. My first point here is now I've got to figure out something about a job. The good thing was that when they fired me, I had a pretty decent 401K because they were a good company as far as giving you profit sharing. So I cashed out that 401K, paid my wife back, paid my mom back, paid, I forgot, I think my dad covered the bond, paid him back. So everybody that put up any money for me got their money back. Had a little bit leftover, paid off my car, I think a credit card, it had some money on it.

So I was basically like I didn't have any debt outside of like my regular bills. So I was trying to slim it down to where I knew I wasn't going to be able to get a job like I had, but I could manage with another job. Luckily, I found one pretty quickly, actually. And again, never having to say, hey, I'm a felon or, hey, I have an arrest or anything to disclose anything. It got to that point. And I told the guy, I was like, man, I'm involved in something right now. And I told him the situation, and he was like, well, I used to take criminal law.

He's like, it doesn't sound like you got anything to worry about. He's like, I appreciate you telling me, but, you know, we're good. That's awesome. And I'm like, well, it's almost awesome. And I'm like, okay, good. So I come home, tell my wife, he's like, you know what? Honest with the guy, I told him, I still got the job. She's like, well, that's good.

You know, we're happy. At least the job will get me out of the house because being in the house was making me go crazy too. They run it through the corporate in Arizona. It comes back. They flag my charge, just a pending charge, and they withdraw. draw the offer. Oh, wow. So right there, I know, I can't go to any big company that's going to run a background because it's going to be a pending murder charge. And companies tend to not look too favorably on applicants that have that on their record. So now I've got to go even kind of lower

down the spectrum. And I wound up going and getting a job at a sign company as a fabricator, because I'm a welder. That's what I've done most of my life. And I start, you know, doing that. It was great because it got me out of the house, but it was probably half of what I was making before. So I've got to adjust to everything else that's going on. Now adjust the way I'm living, lifestyle. But it's easy because I can't go anywhere and do anything. So I'm boxed in to this. So my focus at that point becomes, all right, anything I can do to help the case.

And so I start researching things on my own. I never listen to podcast up until this point. I start listening to Wrongful Conviction Podcast because I'm like, do people really go to prison if they didn't do anything wrong? That answer is a resounding yes. They do. And that's kind of what started me down a rabbit hole of those types of podcasts. That led into true crime, which eventually led me to do my own podcast because I was going crazy.

And as crazy as it sounds, it's therapeutic to talk to people. I was a very outgoing talking of person. So when I started my own podcast, it gave me an outlet to be able to talk to people. Even though I was still confined to my home, it gave me an outlet to be able to talk to people. And it really, really helped me out. Now, I didn't talk about my situation, obviously, because it was ongoing. But we just would have different guests on from different walks of life. So that really helped out.

The next step in the legal process, we have a preliminary hearing. So we go to the preliminary hearing. hearing, the detective on the stand lies through her teeth, like on at least five different occasions, not necessarily huge lies, but it's just lying one right after other. Like she says, he came out of his house when the rising officer got there and locked himself out of his house. Not really sure why she said that. I don't know if she was trying to make it seem like I was nervous, but I didn't even

shut the door. Like when I walked outside and met the officer, the door's wide open. You can see it on his body cam footage. She said that I was a danger to my wife and society because I had a history of showing up at my son's school and showing out and was not allowed to pick him up from school. Never happened. There was no, nothing was written that I wasn't able to come to the school.

She made it seem like I wasn't even allowed to go to the school where my son was at and pick him up. That never took place. She said that she recovered, one vial of steroids from the house where they were renting, her own report was written that she recovered too. So she was just constantly, like I said, not huge lies, but definitely lies. And you're on the stand for a murder case. And the judge almost, like she was, you could tell she was reluctant. She was almost about to toss it. And she was like, you know what, given the

situation, even though there's not a lot here, I'm going to bind it to trial. So the next step, obviously my lawyer is like, all right, what we're going to do is file what's called a Dunkin hearing. And he was like, that's based on the grounds of Castle Law and self-defense. And he's like, that's our next step. So they hire a CSI forensic guy from New York, fly them in. And they set up like everything in the kitchen with like the lasers, you know, going from bullet point to wherever. So they could see where I was standing. It went to the wall to the refrigerator, then from the refrigerator back to the corner.

and it painted a very clear picture that I was standing exactly where I said I was standing. Because my lawyer told me one time we were talking, he's like, look, he's like, don't lie to me. He's like, because I have the guys that's going to be able to tell me if you're lying. And he's like, I can't do my job if you're lying. And I'm like, bro, I'm telling you, everything I'm telling you is the God's honest truth. And he said, when they done that, he told the CSI guy in private, he's like, he's telling the truth. Everything he said is checked out. And I said, well, I was in a unique position to where I didn't have to lie.

Like everything happened the way I said. And so all the evidence just started piling up in our favor. And they were like, you know, we feel good about this. And they're trying to push to get this Dunkin hearing going. Then COVID happens. So the courts just come to a standstill. Nobody's doing anything. Everybody's scared.

You got masks, updates. And my lawyer didn't want to do anything through Zoom or any kind of virtual meet. And so he's like, I'm just going to. to push it off if you're good then I'm good so I was like all right I guess I'm good you know I could stand up maybe be making a little bit more money but I'm decent the company that I'm working for at the time knows nothing at this point in job I didn't tell them about anything I just told him I was looking for a new job so I was like kind of nervous that they might see it in the paper or see so here's something about it or whatever the guy comes to me and he's like we're going to do an install

at your old job and I'm like oh yeah and he's like I said where he's like new core we got to put an LED sign in out there. I'm like, all right. And I was like, do I got to go on this install? And he's like, no, you don't have to go. I'm like, good. I'm thinking, if I'm not out there, nobody recognizes me, whatever.

Lo and behold, somebody's talking to somebody. They say, we got a guy at our shop used to work out here. Who weighed? Oh, yeah, yeah. How's everything going with his case? What case? You know, he got arrested for murder, didn't he? Huh?

Nobody out there new. Then now everybody at the new job knows. Oh, man. I know they know, but nobody says anything. So that's even, like in a way, that's even worse, because I know they know, but nobody's saying anything about it. So I don't know whether if they're waiting. I don't know whether the guy's mad because I didn't tell them. But I knew that they knew because every now and again, we would have to go to, like, army bases or military bases to do jobs.

They would never send me there because I couldn't because you had to clear their backgrounds. Everywhere else they would send me. So I knew they know, but they never say anything. COVID comes. Eventually, I actually wound up losing that job. Luckily, got another one. Still doing welding and fabricating. This guy was from Texas.

I told him the whole story. He was like, man, I'm from Texas. You didn't do nothing. I wouldn't do. You know, glad to have you. Welcome aboard. Great dude. And I stayed with him until this thing kind of found a conclusion.

And through this whole time, my lawyer, like I said, not wanting to do anything over Zoom. finally, like I said, I started this podcast. I was going to New York a few times, interviewing some old guys that were in the mob. I had to get permission to go to New York. So I had to submit permission to the solicitor, or solicitor, and they agreed. And let me go to New York. Again, charging me with murder.

You got me on house arrest. But yeah, go to New York. Did they offer you a plea deal at all? Never did. Never did. Never offered me anything. You would have thought they wanted to fish something out just to see if you would take it. Just to see.

kept thinking that and my lawyer kept telling me that they probably would. What were you facing? Life. You were faced. You would have thought if they knew that they had a weak case, I would say, hey, here's 20 or 15. Exactly. Would you have taken that? No.

Okay. So regardless, you weren't taking it. No. Well, to start with, I've got 60, 70 grand invested in a lawyer. I'm not paying all that money to still go away for 20 years. Did you have to pay more money too? Yeah. I wound up being much.

I think all together now, after everything's said and done, about 100 grand. Okay. So did you actually go through a full trial or it didn't get there? No, it didn't get there. When they're giving me permission to go to New York, I went once. That was in like July of last year. I wound up having to take a second trip in September. And again, we have to file paperwork every time.

My lawyer's like, look, this is getting ridiculous. Like, you know, let's just get this immunity hearing over with. and there was a new solicitor on the case. The original solicitor left. They brought in a woman. The woman left. They brought in a new guy. Now, this guy really didn't know much about the case.

So my lawyer called me on the phone and he's like, I'm thinking about just laying everything out. He's like, I'm thinking about showing him everything that we have, and I think it'll be damning enough to where they're going to drop it. And he's like, but it's a risk because we're showing our hand. And I'm like, bro, I trust you. Like, do whatever you want to do. And so he set it up. And we go to the police station and our CSI guy had to fly him back down. So those are all expenses.

Every time somebody out of state comes, you got to pay their flights, you got to pay their hotels. You know, you got to pay them to do all this. And he puts together a PowerPoint. So, like, I told them, hey, when this first started, we wrestled around in the kitchen. They said, well, we didn't see any signs of a struggle. So he takes the first rising officer with body cam, footage and he highlights that there's knocked over shot glasses on the floor in the kitchen. Also knocked over glasses on the counter like a big rocks like Manhattan glass knocked over.

And he's like, that looks like signs of a struggle to me. Like I'm sure the guy just don't have glasses laying around on his floor like that. The next thing was he didn't have any blood on him so we don't think they were in close contact. I was wearing a long sleeve white t-shirt, in fact, that night. And so that was kind of a thing where he don't have any blood on him. so how close could they have really been. They'd done, like, so many studies on, like, blood spatter, why you don't get blood spatter, depending on, like we mentioned earlier,

gun, calor of bullet, all that. The guy that night was wearing three layers of clothes. He had on, like, a t-shirt, a long-sleeved t-shirt, and then kind of like a, not a hoodie, but like a real thin, long-sleeve shirt with the hood over it that was like a wicking material because it was a little chilly. It wasn't going to travel through all. all that. You're not going to get back spatter on me. And that was a key thing that they focused on

was that because I was wearing a white shirt and I had no blood on me. They were trying to say that we were farther apart. And that's a lot of what they based their case on. Well, the problem with that is when you stand this guy up in front of me, when he's, when they come in, you could see right where he was laying. He wasn't up against the refrigerator. He was about a foot from it. So he couldn't have been farther back because then he's going to be laying up against the refrigerator. He had to be close enough to where he fell straight back. The bullet pass were entering at one point than exiting at a lower point. So how does that happen?

I've got to be charging at you, crouched over, coming at you like in a football tackle type position for it to go in high and exit lower. So everything I'm saying is adding up. They lay out that to the solicitor. They're very receptive to it. They leave. They're supposed to go see what they have on me. Now, I can't go in there.

My lawyer and investigators, and everybody can, but I can't. So I said, we're going to come to your house. You just go on to your house and we'll meet you there in a little bit. My investigator is the first one to get there. And I'm asking, I was like, so what do they have? He's like, nothing. And I'm like, what do you mean nothing? And he's like, dude, they have your gun and your clothes and the few things they took from your house.

And that's it. They don't have anything. Yeah, there's no audio recording, video statements, nothing. Yeah, there's no nothing. And I'm just like, so what the hell we've been doing these last five years? And so they finally come. The solicitor comes in the house. Everything in my kitchen is the same.

I never moved the refrigerator. I never moved anything. I never replaced anything. the stickers that they put on where it ricocheted on the wall is still there. Yeah. I didn't cover up, nothing. Because I had a feeling deep down that at some point this kitchen was going to be key to being able to resolve this whole thing.

And so I lay it out for him. I'm saying, all right, we were here. He come up here. We rolled here. He done this. I done this. I let him hold the glass that was on the counter knocked over so he could feel the weight of it. I told him, I'm like, all right, I'm here.

I shoot this way. That's this bullet that hits that ricochets over here. The other one went into a 24 pack of water. They never found that when they were doing the investigation, mind you. Wow. I found it after I got back from when they told me to go to my neighbor's house and hang out. I found the bullet later on. So that's just kind of an insight into the depth of investigation that was done.

They didn't even find one of the bullets. I had to call them to come back out and get it. So after all that, you know, you can tell. tell he's really taking the info in. He's not just brushing it off. It's not just lip service. And he asked me a couple questions. I mean, nothing like too in depth. You know, he asked me, I want to say specifically, he was like, you know, what was his mood like? And I'm like, well, to start with it was good. Like, you know, in the very beginning of the conversation, obviously it was a little hostile. I was like, then it got better. And I said, then we were cool.

I was like, he just flipped. I said, when he went to that bathroom and he come out, I said, he was a totally different person. Yeah. And so they leave and we were sitting around my lawyer, investigator, all I was talking, and I was like, we think that went good. And I'm like, how long you think it'll, you know, take 40 to find out something? And he's like, you know, who knows? He said it could be months, weeks or whatever. This was like the beginning of September or end of August, beginning of September. My birthday's Labor Day. So I'm hoping for that to be like the best birthday present ever, you know, to get, get this thing drop. Doesn't happen. Go through September. I think we have a hurricane coming.

A lot of people evacuated. I think. told my lawyer, I'm like, make sure they don't let that file for my, you know, case dismissed float away for this hurricane. Finally, October, the week before Halloween last year, I'm at work and I get a phone call as my lawyer. Now, I'm not like, he called me, you know, pretty regularly, so I'm not thinking, oh, this is it. Call him up and he's like, you know, way, what are you doing?

I said, I'm working, man. And he's like, well, how does it feel to be a free man? Oh, wow. And brother, when he said that, like, I just, I'll admit, I went to crying. Like I couldn't hold it together. I was so emotional. It was like the biggest weight you could ever imagine getting lifted off me. And I mean, like after a few minutes of, you know, just being real emotional, I was like,

are you serious? Like it's over? He's like, it's done. He's like, case is dismissed. That's awesome. And, you know, it's been a wild ride since then, man. Like I said, I've kind of made it a point because I built a little platform with my show that I really wanted to highlight people that have been, similar situations that didn't have the outcome that I did.

And, you know, because that's not all my show's about, but that's something that I really take seriously because, dude, there's not a doubt in my mind that had I not had a job that had me a 401k already set up in a pretty decent amount. I could very well be in a jail cell right now. And I know that's happened to people. Or a supportive family. Yeah, or a supportive family, exactly. So you take a kid that's poor, that has no family, that's in this situation, that acted

within his right to do so, but doesn't have the support system or the friends or the financial means to get a good lawyer. They're going to prison for a very long time and didn't do anything wrong. So I'm blessed and I want to be able to use my story as a cautionary tale that you can do everything right. You can do everything by the letter of the law. And because of an overzealous detective, I lost pretty much five years of my life being able to do what I want. Like, I couldn't go to weddings. I couldn't go to parties, birthday parties, deaths. One of my best friends died. I couldn't go to his funeral. Like, in the beginning, they wouldn't know nothing. There was no leeway. As the years went on, I would kind of get leeway here and there,

but it still wasn't a lot. And, like, I'm a very outgoing person, so sitting in a house is not ideal for somebody like me. You lost time. Yeah, time. You could get money back. You can't get time. Yeah. Well, I didn't know, I don't even get the money back. Like, I'm thinking, all right, well, now, There's no options for you to sue or anything, right? Yeah, there's no options because it's a difference between malicious prosecution and basically incompetence. And so I'm saying like, all right, so these cops can be full-blown idiots and charge people. And screw up someone's life. And screw up someone's life.

And then at the end of it, when it's done, oh, well, my bad. Do you think you needed to go through this whole situation to be who you are today? To be who I am today, absolutely. And to look at things differently because I, I don't know. I was that guy that if I'm sitting at home, I've come home from work, I flip on the news, so-and-so killed, so-and-so, he's arrested. Ah, hell, glad they caught him. I see it on the news.

I believed it. I thought that's how it was. I didn't think there was another side to the story. Now, when I see that, I look at everything from a different set of eyes. Matter of fact, it was like two weeks after I got out. They arrested a kid for shooting his father. And so immediately, my mind goes, what did the father do? Why did a kid do that?

Was the father beating on the mom? Was he beating on the sister? Was he beating on the son? Was he forced? I'm looking at it from different sets of eyes trying to figure out why he was doing what he was doing. Don't judge a book by its cover. Exactly.

I think that's definitely a hitting point for your story. Yeah, because you don't know. And so many people would read that in the news and they'd say, oh, well, he'd done this and he done that. And I've had so many people. Oh, you know, they'll see my story on some of these people. podcast, and they listen to a part of it. They don't listen to the whole thing.

It's like, you know, what happens to the day is when you used to throw hands and shit? I'm like, I live beside, you know, I want to say apartment complex, but I live a subdivision over from that dude for six months. If he wanted to throw hands, we could have threw hands. He waited to that day when that happened, when he knew I couldn't physically do anything about it. That's not my fault. If you could change one thing that you did, looking back on everything, what would you change? knowing everything you know now, knowing what you've become from this experience. And it could be you don't want to change a thing.

You know, I got to say it's that. I don't know if I want to change anything. Because had I make that choice, just say I didn't say, all right, you're not coming back over. I don't want to have you at the house. So that night doesn't happen. But that don't mean that another night don't happen. And that don't mean that another night don't go a different way. Say the situation was different that night and he got me.

He took me out. then what's to stop him from going back over to where my wife sat and taking her out, my son out, and my daughter out. He could have went back there and done it that night. Had I said, hey, don't, you know, I don't know if we need to hang out. I'm going to just take you on over there. He could have went over there and killed him. If he was ready, setting his mind to kill me, who was to say he couldn't have done it to them?

So obviously, yes, this whole thing flipped me upside down, inside out. It, you know, was a very big financial strain for sure. It's made me look at life totally different, gave me a whole new perspective on life. It's allowed me to get into a different thing like this podcast and to be able to talk to people and talk to so many cool people, too, like movie stars and guys from like the Sopranos TV shows and Tommy Chong and just cool people that I would have never gotten into this had this not happen. So hell of a path to travel to get here. But I don't think I would change anything.

I'm satisfied with the way things have worked themselves out. Now I feel like I have the duty to help spread the word and at least put out awareness that these kind of things can happen if you're not careful. And I know there's an insurance that you can buy for situations like this. It's called carry guard or something. I need to get up with them and be their spokesperson. Like I need to be their poster child because that's exactly what this is. Do you still carry a gun now?

Yeah, I got everything back. Once the car charges were dropped, I got all the guns back that I get my lawyer. So that was the first step. I reapplied for my CWP. It got reinstated. And I actually got the gun back that I used that night along with everything else they took for me. Would you think differently the next time you're in that situation again? That situation, no.

I don't think so. If that presented itself. If that same situation presented itself, probably be the same way. I'm going to be a lot more apprehensive as far as putting myself in a situation where that could possibly happen. And when I hadn't touched a gun since that happened. So when I first got all the guns back, the other guns, it wasn't such a big deal. Like I had them. I put them, you know, where I had them before.

When I got that one back, I don't, I'll be honest, I don't know if I've touched it since then. I've got it put up. I've got it. But I don't know if I've touched it. That one's a little, it's a little tricky going down memory lane with that one because I know what was involved with it. Have you done any therapy or anything to help you heal through this situation? I've seen a psychiatrist for a little bit while it was going on, but I just didn't feel like they were really connecting with what my issues were. And the biggest therapy for me has been actually going on shows like yours and some other platforms that I've went on and talking about it.

because I'm able to break everything down. I'm able to talk freely. And to where some things, I believe I could tell you that I don't know if a shrink would actually listen to or really take in the grasp of it. Because guys like, you know, yourself and, you know, other individuals that I've taught with, they've all, they've seen the way the system is. They get it. A straight-laced lawyer that have never found theirself in a jail ain't really going to pick up exactly everything I'm putting down. Absolutely. And like I said, I don't want to make this like I've been.

to prison for some long stretch. I did two and a half days. That was enough for me. I hope I don't ever go back. But the way the system is, guys like yourself and other individuals that are on these types of platforms, they get it because they were there.

They've seen the way it works. They know how dirty it is. So I get my therapy from doing that. Absolutely. Wade, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Absolutely, my friend. It means a lot. It was a great story, great conversation,

excited to see where you take it and change lives and use that inspirational story that could be found in the darkest of places. Oh, yeah. And that's the thing, man, when it gets you down, you know, I heard so many times it told to me, oh, you got it, don't worry about it. That doesn't help because until it's gone, you're still going to think about it. And then once it's over, you know, you can look back and you can say, look at everything I come through. Absolutely. And that's where we're at.