Locked In with Ian Bick - Woman Reveals How She Learned To Cook Meth | Cassie Cooper

Episode Date: June 2, 2024

Cassie Cooper shares her shocking journey into the world of meth production. Discover the dangerous and eye-opening details of how she learned to cook meth and the impact it had on her life. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Cassie Cooper: Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:03:19 - Growing Up as the Oldest Sibling 00:06:28 - High School Dropout and Tragic Loss 00:09:47 - The Tragedy at 18: 00:12:58 - The Reality of Going to Prison 00:16:16 - Life in County Jail 00:19:26 - Treating Women in Arkansas Prisons 00:22:28 - Living Conditions and Personal Transformation 00:25:35 - From Tragedy to Transformation 00:28:36 - The Downward Spiral 00:31:49 - Custody and Forgery Charges 00:34:58 - Overcoming Addiction and Finding Hope 00:37:59 - Finding Faith and Starting Over 00:41:08 - From Factory Job to Men's Transition Home 00:44:04 - Rebuilding Relationships 00:46:57 - Overcoming Trauma and Finding Support 00:49:51 - Humility and Bossiness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I was in, I was there about two months, and this big old girl approached me. And I'm like 5'1, like 92 pounds, you know. She's like, what are you in here for? I was like, did I tell you? And, you know, because I told you I had like little man syndrome, right? I thought that I can just go and talk to these people crazy like I did the men out there, you know? She said, yeah, you are going to tell me. I'm like, well, if you must know, I'm here for a murder.

Welcome back to the Lockton with the InBIC podcast on today. episode, I have Cassie Cooper, another guest I had the pleasure of interviewing at the National Association for Reentry Professionals annual conference last month. Cassie is from Arkansas and has a fascinating story about how she landed herself battling addiction and ended up in prison. Cassie's story could happen to anyone, and I think it's really going to touch and hit home for a lot of people. Thanks for Cassie for coming on the show. And thank you. to all the listeners who stay locked in with Ian Bick every single week. And thank you to all the listeners who stay locked in to this podcast each and every week.

Now, without further ado, sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with Cassie Cooper. Cassie, welcome to Lockton. We're at the NARP conference this week in Nashville. You're our third interview in the day. So a little tired, but it's been a long day I spoke this morning, and now here we are. I see you on Facebook. You've been a listener of the show for a while, huh? I have.

I love listening to what you do and all the stories and just the success stories too from the people reentering from society. Awesome. What was it about the show that kind of stuck out for you? I think a lot of it was just seeing how they re-entered and how they are successful now, you know, and not everybody fails when they get out. But a lot of people, they look at us like we're going to fail automatically

and that we're not going to succeed. Does the content hit home for you in a way? Do you feel it relatable? It hits so home to me. Been to prison three times. Three times, wow. Yeah, it was a little hard-headed. And you're from Arkansas, I believe?

Yes, from Arkansas. Okay. And we met at the, I was looking at my text when you texted me today where there's a picture. We met at the peer recovery conference when I was in Arkansas. We did. Yes, we did. That's awesome. When JD, do you know JD delay?

I think he spoke. during the conference. He's a YouTube content creator. I don't know him, no, but I was there and I listened yeah. Okay. Yeah, he was there and then obviously you know Jimmy McGill. I do know Jimmy McGill. So did you grow up in Arkansas? I did grow up in Arkansas. I grew up in a small town called Manila, Arkansas. What's it called? Manila. Manila? Yes. Like vanilla, but with an M. Yes. Okay, what was that like? Um, so it was a small town, you know, like, either you're going to go to church, you're going to do meth. That was it.

It was one or the other? Absolutely. And that was just programmed in your head as a child? No, I didn't grow up that way. I actually grew up with two great-grandparents. They raised me until I was eight and a half. I had four uncles that I thought were my brothers. They really took care of me.

Kind of got to be. I didn't see drugs or anything growing up. Where were your parents, your actual parents? So when my grandpa died when I was eight and a half, my grandmother told me that she was my grandma. grandma, not my mom, and I was going to go live with my mom and my dad. Um, so my mom was 18 when she had me. Um, she went back to go graduate school. Um, so my grandmother raised me. Okay. And any siblings at all? I do. I have a sister and two brothers. Older, younger? They are younger. I am the oldest of four.

Yeah. Wow. Okay. And, um, what was the age difference? Was it, uh, pretty wide? Um, me and my sister were eight years apart. Me and my brother were 10 and me and my baby bruce. And me and my baby brother or 20. Wow. So that is a big as an oldest. Wow. Yeah, it's a little different. Was it a lot of pressure on you to be the oldest? When I moved back then with my mom, when I was eight and a half, my grandpa died, so I went to live with her and I already had my baby sister. So it was a lot because I was used to being the baby and having four uncles and four, well, they were like brothers to me to fight with and, you know, all of that good stuff. And now I had to be to be the top person to help her get through. everything. I felt like it was a lot of pressure. Yeah. I'd get ready for school. Like,

I felt like I was being a mom at a young age. Yeah. How did you guys grow up? Did you guys grow up, um, poor, rich, middle class? So we were poor. We were poor. Um, well, I would say that it was poor, but at that time, I didn't even know what that looked like. I just enjoyed childhood. So. And what did that look like, reflecting back on it now? I miss being a kid. I miss being a kid. Me too. You know, sometimes we take things for granted that we don't feel plays any role in our life, any good, because I can look back and tell you all the bad stuff that I went through. There was a lot of good in my life.

You know, my mom and dad both worked. We had everything that we needed. We didn't have everything we wanted, but we had everything we needed. What's one memory that really sticks out for you in childhood that you'll never forget? I think so during my younger years I played basketball through elementary and through high school and you know my mom would just come because she played high school and basketball and yes I'm like five too but like I just wanted to make her proud you know and just her just come into a game and watching me that was you know everything to me so she would come and just cheer me on and um looking back I don't remember

those all the time. Yeah. It's good to sometimes reflect back on it so they never leave. Yeah. Good little reminder where you came from. It is. Yeah. So did you go to all public school all your years? I did go to all public school. Middle school, high school. The same school. Completed high school. Oh wait, it was combined like the same? Well, they were all in Manila. So yeah, no elementary was different, but from seventh grade to 12 was all combined. Okay. And did you end of graduating from my school? Got my GED in prison. Wow. We, you know, don't be ashamed of that because a lot of individuals that come on the show did get their GED in prison, if not at all, you know, in some cases. Yeah, I didn't even think I was, I quit in two weeks into the 12th grade. What was your reason?

So this is going to be maybe a little painful to share, but I share it quite a bit. I married my high school sweetheart. Never had to drugs or anything before then at all. I was in, choir and played ball. But our six-day married, we got married, and then I went ahead and quit school because I can share the good memories about my mom, but I can also share the bad memories of, like, she did like to use the word, call me fat when I was like a size three, and that stuck with me. And he just was like, well, let's just go get married.

And I was like, okay, I'll quit school. I'm 18. our six-day married. I had went and it was going to be a good wife, and I found a syringe in a spoon in his pocket. I had no idea what that was. I was freaking out, and he began to put his hands on me, and I was like, well, this is not the man that I've been with.

You know, he opened up doors for me. He was a gentleman. I did not expect that to happen. And, like I said, this is a little hard to talk about sometimes, but he um luckily our door was kind of cracked i guess and my uncle's wife had come to bring a housewoman gift and she got him off of me she said i was turning blue and he got like from here to like right behind your chair to the door and i told him that i wished he would die the next morning um i got that call he had shot up oxycott and then it blew up his heart i was pulling him off the

bin later at 18 years old holy shit it was rough how long were you guys taking out for? Four years. And you had no inkling that he was... Isn't it insane how someone could hide that? That's so close to you? I think that it must have been sudden because he was very angry.

And then I hated myself for the words that I said. I think I learned at a very young age then. Be careful what you say. That's very powerful. I feel like a lot of people in the world today are quick to say things out of anger. That's something I've learned over the years You know, I was always very quick to lash out out of anger and frustration and emotions.

And now I'm very, you know, more calculated with what I say and not everything needs a response. Absolutely. I can tell you to this day, I don't really remember the funeral. I don't remember much about it. It was kind of like a blurt moment for me. And I had to move back home with my mom and my dad. I felt like it was failure to move back home. Because, I mean, that's the biggest reason I wanted to leave.

Me and my mom's relationship wasn't good because, of course, she didn't raise me until after I was eight and a half. But after that, I think it was like three months after he, I say three months, sorry, it was three weeks after he passed away and his friends come over to check on me, and they heard my mom say those famous words that she always said, get out of the bed because I didn't get up for like three weeks. I was like, I'm a widow at 18.

How does that happen? Did you have a support system at all? Anyone that could help you or talk to you or walk you through it? No. No, you know, that's just stuff that you think that's never going to happen to you, right? So I remember them saying, well, we have something that she won't never call you fat again, right? Never been in trouble my whole life, started using meth. And six months into that, I was on my way to prison for cooking meth and fat.

I mean at 18 and a half years old. Do you think that if that, if that, you know, tragedy never happened, you never would have gotten involved with drugs? I don't know if it's the tragedy. I think it's the trauma from the past. You know, mental health is real and how people are treating people matters. And I just know that I think I probably would have tried drugs one time or another because in my hometown, I told you there's either church or you're going to do meth. And it's a small town and you blink, you really will miss it.

And I got a 15-year sentence, and I've done three and a half years to the door. You have 15 years? Yeah, I've never been in trouble. They wanted to make it. They're like, oh, we're going to make an example out of you. For that one arrest for cooking math? Yeah, it was a class why. So where do you get busted for, how do you even learn how to cook math at that age?

Well, one of my uncles that, so it was like my brothers, you know, he was, he had a friend that, come around and we're like, okay, we're going to teach you how to do this. And, you know, because in that game of life, like, men will use methamphetamine, whatever, to wait a second, dope at a female and think that they're fixing to give up their body for it. And they're like, well, we'll go to prison for a murder if they ever do that to you. So they thought they were doing me a favor. And in some sick world, they were doing you a favor. I mean, they didn't want me to be treated like some object.

And at that time, I really, it's like, I feel like I got little man syndrome. I treated men very badly, talked crazy to them because I saw so much in that world in that small time that, I mean, it just made me sick. So they teach you how to cook meth. Are you physically the one cooking it? Yeah, we're going to get in hydras, all kind of stuff. And you're just, you're following their lead. They give you a list and you're just shopping for it. Oh, yeah, we're shopping for it.

And then in the middle of it, we're doing it. We're doing everything that is possible. In my mind, really, I'm thinking, well, this is just science. How hard is it to actually cook math and make a good product? Well, it's harder now because a lot of people can't get what they got back then. You can't get anhydrous. Like we were going to Jonesboro, Illinois, from Arkansas to go to the Nhydras tanks to still it. You know, it was, wow.

It's so hard looking back sometimes thinking, well, how did I even live through some of that? People, at that time period, there was a girl in our hometown that she was cooking meth and she, like, got blown up. Because it is dangerous, right? Very dangerous. You have to be very careful and they taught me never to be high while you cook methamphetamine or even why you're selling for that matter of fact. Don't do that, you know. I must not been a good drug addict, though, or good because I went to prison. But I never claimed to be good at that.

It was just, it was so, I was so scared, though. went. I was like, USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get

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It's great. Even better, it's lactose-free and has zero added sugar. It's not every day you find a protein shake you actually want to finish. Catch rock and protein in the dairy cooler at a store near you. Rock and protein and Shamrock Farms are registered trademarks of Shamrock Foods Company. Really going to prison. Do you hold resentment towards your uncles now? No. No, I love them. Actually, I'm working right now. My uncle that taught me how to do this. He's on his way to prison for like the seven time and he finally reached out for help because that's what I do for a living. I'm a peer recovery specialist for the state of Arkansas. Yeah. And it broke my heart that he finally wanted help. And I'm like trying to advocate and do what I can do. And it didn't quite work out. So that first, did you get busted the very first time or did you have a little bit of a run?

No, I had a little bit of a run. Okay. Did you make any money doing it? Yeah, I got caught with like $10,000. Oh, so you were getting it, girl. You're hustling. Well, I mean, yeah. Wow, I guess.

Wow. And how old are you? Like 19, 20? Oh, I was 18 and a half when I went to prison. Oh, so this was a short period of time. Six months, yeah, I didn't cook it anymore. So everything, your whole life, like you choir girl, sports team, and it's all thrown away in just six months. It spiraled.

Real quick luck. It was like a whole bad dream. I was like, is this real? Yeah. Am I asleep? I remember being in county jail in Mississippi County Jail. I had a girl tell me I was just like never been in trouble, never had a ticket, nothing. I was like, they're not going to send me to prison.

Probably just going to get probation. Had that mindset like, oh, like I didn't belong in prison. Had the wrong attitude about it. You know, I thought those people, like, they're killers that go to prison, you know, people that hurt kids. I'm not going. You know, there was nothing wrong with what I did is the mindset I had. And once I got there, I realized that I did. did need to be there for what I did because cooking methamphetamine, you can give that drug to people

and they can die. I remember going there and county jail, the girl said, well, just, if anybody comes up to you, just tell them that you killed somebody. This is so crazy I'm going to show this, but I was in, I was there about two months and this big old girl approached me and I'm like five one, like 92 pounds, you know. Um, she's like, what are you in here for? I was like, did I tell you? And, you know, because I told you I had like little man syndrome, right? I thought that I can just go and talk to these people crazy like I did the men out there, you know?

And, well, she said, yeah, you are going to tell me. And like, I'm like, well, if you must know, I'm here for a murder. You know, scared half to death, right? Like, I'm like, I'm about to get, like, really big down. up in here. And I just walked away and she just left me alone after that. She never found out that you weren't there for murder. No, if they looked at my class, I had a class why.

Like, it's the same thing as murder. Oh, it is because it's the amount of weight and the money and whatnot that you got caught with. It's a class why, yeah. So what was that experience like going to county jail for someone that's never been in trouble in her life? Horrifying, you know, like I was like, you know, what they fed us. and I was like, this is unsanitary, I felt like. But if you go to, like, plenty of different county jails, they're all the same.

Yeah, county jails have a terrible route. Yeah, when I got to prison and every time I went locked up after that, I was like, can I just hurry up and go to ADC? I'm just county jail is for the birds. Like, this sucks. Like, send me to prison so I can have a little bit of freedom, you know, so food can be a little bit better. Yeah.

I mean, I was at that Lono County Jail. I got to tour and, you know, it's clean, but it's not any place you want to live. live. No. You know, it's not these, these county jails. You could be the best sheriff running the joint. It's still a county jail.

You know, the food still sucks. They're close quarters. It's not the best, you know. Look, in prison, I learned to fold yourself underneath your mat. Like, I had a lot of lockers that poured into me, though, that first time I went. And I was very thankful for them. It was like they were helping me grow up in a manner, you know, being there three and a half years.

And then those were the best people. You know, that's when I tell you that my mindset changed. I was like, these people that kill people, they're the best. Like, man, I did need to be there for what I did. So on a 15-year sentence, you only have to serve three and a half years? Yeah, it was under a half of a half. Okay. I've met guys from Arkansas, like Michael Springer and George Sedbury, GW.

Yeah. White George. Yeah. He's here at the conference, too. He came on my podcast. His episode comes out Sunday. Oh, I'm going to watch that. Yeah, it's a great one.

Yeah, so they all got, when you hear their sentences, it's like, wow, but then they don't, under those laws, you only serve a fraction of it, which is interesting that Arkansas has that. Yeah, because it's two months on every year. Two months and 14 days. You know, more states should adopt that. Yeah. But then I guess on the back and you're stuck with the parole aspect, which is a dangerous route, too. Are you on parole now, too? No, I've been off parole for six years now.

Okay, congratulations. Thank you. I know. So when you got sentenced to prison, do you feel like you had an addiction at that point? No, I thought everybody else had the problem. And not you. Yeah. I was like, y'all just need to leave me.

At that point, nobody was really telling me that I had issues. You know, it wasn't until later on that, I mean, of course, I thought they had the problem. Arrested me, like, what, I wouldn't do anything wrong to nobody. like just making my money I haven't had another job because my my cousin and my uncle were like just keep a regular job too like I fought them over them taking that $10,000 I was like look I worked for some of that you know it was crazy and they're like

what's wrong with you girl we're taking this money I was at my mom house my mom's house her and my dad had just got divorced and my baby brother was six months old and I remember remember them knocking on the door. It wasn't like some bang bang like everybody talks about. They knocked on the door and my mom went outside and they was like she signed it to let him come search and I was like look home girl you knew it was here. But like I had my baby brother like I wasn't how I wasn't using at that time of you know because I was just going to be sober while I'm doing this and I was so mad.

I was like well I got my baby brother I don't want him to go into justice custody and like at that point me and my mom had started using together, you know, never even knew that she even did that stuff until I started using. She's like, oh, I get a high to. And I'm like, that is something you never want to do with your kids. I would never do that with my daughters. But she knew that it was there. Like, I was bringing in the money, hustling, you know, doing whatever I could do to help her pay bills. And like, she'll come in. And I was like, well, it's over there. Yeah. Did people? People give you a hard time because of your height, like, as a drug dealer. Like, when people say drug dealer, they don't really expect someone that's on the smaller side.

Well, or they just say, don't man. They think you're a man. Yeah, they do, right? There's that stigma that every drug dealer is a man, and people are always fascinated with the woman drug dealers. Well, DTF did. They're like, we know that you didn't do all this. I'm like, yeah, I did. I want the credit.

Well, I mean, they just like had me in holding self, just thought I was about to just give them a whole bunch of names. And I was like, dude, I'm it. And they're like, this can't be real. I think that's why they threw me the book is because I think they thought I lied to them. Not that I want to be known for this, you know? It is what it is, right? Yeah. How do you feel Arkansas treats their woman female prison population?

Well, I'm going to be honest with you. When I was in prison at 18 and a half when I went, it was a little bit more harsh. Now the two times after that that I went, it was like I saw a lot of guards that actually poured into women. There's some now that actually poured into me while I was in there that go to my church now. It's amazing to watch that there's some that actually care. And what do you mean by they care? Well, how would they treat you guys?

Or how did they treat you? What was your experience? He gave them respect. They gave you respect. but that was the last two times that I went. Before that, I remember, it was just a bad experience. The men guards were you got to come in, you know, you're doing a shank down,

and you're having a strip, and they're there watching. Like, it's very degrading. And they let male guards see the woman? They would just stand there and the women would be with them. I figured you probably heard that before, though. Like, that happens everywhere. Yeah, I mean, I think of the feds, like a woman can't see a male strip and a male can't see a woman's trip.

I don't know, though. I don't know if that's an actual rule, or that's just the way it unfolded when I was there. It's supposed to be like that. We should, right? We would have men guards that would sit up and, you know, in the thing, and, like, they could see down because the women would be having the bathroom, everything.

Like, you know, they saw everything. How is the, like, the cleanliness conditions? Actually, not bad. Really? They would assign people to do certain things every day. Like, you would have barracks. supporters. We had 60 women to a barracks. I was glad to be in the open barracks because the clothes barracks just drove me nuts. The closed barracks? Yeah, you got you and another person. Well,

if you don't get along. Did you ever knock it? And you're so sweet. You're nice. How could anyone not get along with you? Yeah, we say that. I say that I'm sweet now, but I don't think I was then. How would you describe yourself back then? Just feisty. I didn't care. Where do you think that came from? I think the drug rule just kind of taught me that in a short period of time. I don't know. It's just crazy how to think of like what I was then and who I am now. How do you think your friends would describe you? We had them here from back then. Like a hot mess. I had a post that I posted a few weeks ago. I had a guy that had came in my house and I had another gentleman there and he was talking crazy to him, right?

Well, he had posted, I said, well, post a memory of me. I had no idea. It's still there. You can go look it up. And he's like, I remember when you pulled a knife on me. You pulled a knife on someone? Yeah, you can go look. I mean, it's there.

And I was like, I really wanted to delete that, right? And he's like, well, thank God. You know, I was like, thank God I don't live there anymore. Like, I didn't care. Yeah. Yeah. I would not think I would pull an knife on anybody either. Now, do you feel like there are programs for you for help when you first got

sentenced to combat maybe your addiction or anything? Was there any type of help? Well, so in Mississippi County in Manila, Arkansas, there's no resources for treatment. You have to go to like Jonesboro or Little Rock. It really wasn't talked about a whole lot. You know, my dad's Hispanic. So growing up in that culture, you don't really talk about your problems. You talk about it within the family, and then you just sweep underneath the rug. And that's where the mental health aspect comes into play. Yeah. Do you feel like that's a societal community type of stigma? I think it is, but I think a lot of them that I deal with like, you know, with the native population,

with the place that I work for, the American Indian centers of Arkansas. We deal with Hispanic, Native, and the Marshallese. A lot of the culture is that way. You just have to know how to approach them and we do culture of training to help them be able to approach those people and help them in a manner that you can. Do you think it's changed? overtime since you were a young kid? Yeah, like nobody, nobody said, hey, go to, go to treatment.

You know, it was just like, okay, you're going to prison, and this is what I thought I was going to do for the rest of my life. Oh, and they didn't have peer recovery specialists back then, right? No, no, they didn't. I think that's the coolest thing ever, peer recovery specialist. Like, I got to see firsthand what exactly a peer recovery specialist was. Yeah. And all these states need to get on Arkansas's level with what they have going on.

We have some pretty big stuff there. I'm not going to lie to you. We really do. Yeah, I don't know how many states have a whole peer recovery conference and it's literally fascinating. It's awesome, but it's that we get to use that past and turn it into a purpose and help other people. I think it's just my passion that drove me of like what I didn't have and when I want these people to have the chance to do. Yeah, I mean, it's a lived experience. That's everything. That's how you create change. And I'll say that all the time. It's that the lived experience will create the change in the world. It does.

I use mine quite often. I do go to, like, churches, events, and I go into jail and tell my testimony of, you know, what happened in my past, like, what trauma affected me to take. Because some people think that, oh, you're just going to be an addict. Like, there's reasons behind that. You know, there's a mental health aspect or there's trauma that happened that I can remember the exact moment of when I knew that I wanted to numb something. in my life. I can pinpoint it to, and I didn't even know what drugs were then.

Mm-hmm. You know, and a lot of people, they just want to look at us, like we're, send us to prison. That's all we need. But we just need resources and help. What's one thing or two things that would have helped you back then after your tragedy with your husband? Just probably getting me to counseling and not swoop it and right the rug. Like, I remember my mom and them telling me, you're just going to be okay. It's all right. you know, like he put his hands on you before he died, like, it's going to be all right.

No, it wasn't all right. Like, that was traumatic. And what's crazy is that was the only thing that happened in my life that was tragedy. You know, I just had to get through it. Now, you said you got arrested the first time for cooking meth. What about the other two times? So, I want to say the second time, I just thought I was so slick. You know, I come home at 21 and had my oldest daughter.

done really good, stay clean. She was just the perfect thing in the world, you know. She's actually 18 now, getting ready to graduate May 7th. Aww. Yeah. So a big period of time passed between your first time and your second time. Yeah. Yeah.

I was out. Well, so her dad, he was an alcoholic. And I was like, I don't want him to prison. Like, you've got to get this alcohol at this house. I was scared of dad. Like, I just don't want to go back. That's what I always told myself. Never going back.

I told the lockers when I was leaving, you won't see me again, you know, all that stuff. I did that. And I remember that I just told them I was like, I'm not coming back. And then I had her and then having I done really good, I had both of my girls before I went back again. So my daughters are two years apart. Okay. So went through me to go to my second time. So my youngest daughter's dad was really into a lot of pills that they were.

that time and I just thought it was slick. So for like a year, I was calling a small town pharmacy calling in prescriptions and we were picking them up. Like, I was like, who does that? Youth sports families and fans huddle up. Wherever life takes you, game changer keeps you connected. Stream games live and full HD when you can't be there. Get play-by-play updates right on your phone and share game highlights with everyone. Full bragging rights included. Live the game like never before with Game Changer. Create your free account today at gc.com. You didn't need any scripts or anything?

No, I just called him in and act like I was a nurse. And that worked. Swear. Well, that doesn't work at today's world, right? No, this was 2011. Oh, so not even that long ago? Wow. That definitely didn't help the drug problem in America.

No, and I was just doing it for him. Like, he was real big into pain pills. I never got it in doubt. drugs I was really into it was methamphetamine. So did you get caught doing that? Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I got caught going and picked them up. What happened?

So I had, so it got real big, like we're in a small town. Everybody's going to know about it, right? So I'm calling them in for him and his friends and then my friends. And I'm just like, look, I'll call you in these and you bring me the dope because I'm not cooking it again. That was like my stipulations, you know, which was not good, you know? So I called them in and I was like, they're like, this one girl, she's like, I need to ride to go get them.

And we're like probably 30 minutes away from the pharmacy. And we go in there and she's like, we won't let me pick them up. Next thing, you know, police officers going to knocking. And he takes my phone. And he's like, yep, this is the number that it called from. I'm like, Jesus, still not a good criminal. And how much time did you go for that? Actually, so I had had court postponed for like a year.

So then I get in trouble again. during that time. That's the third time. Well, like, getting arrested, yeah. So I didn't go to prison yet because I was, like, fighting it, thought I was just going to win for some crazy reason. And I get a forgery charge. So before that time, though, like, I go to jail,

and my youngest daughter's dad, he's my husband at the time, he bonds me out, and we had done lost the kids of DHS once, and then we got them back, and as long as I wouldn't use a math, I thought I could pass a drug test. So DHS could come in and it wouldn't matter. Like, I was going to pass. But he just didn't. It was just difficult at that time.

And I was like, well, he's going to do. He's going to do. And I'm just going to do whatever I want. And then so I started using meth again at that time because I wanted them to give me the meth for the pills. And I was like, well, I'm going to do this. It's going to be a gravy train because I'm doing it for a year. And I get caught and get out.

to jail and I'm having court going for a year. And at that time, people would talk about like, oh, if you go to court for two years, they dismiss it. I done went to treatment two times during that time, two 30-day rehabs. I was like, I can't get it together. I can't get my kids back. So I went ahead and signed custody over to both of their grandmothers because I knew I wasn't going to keep, I just knew, you know, and I knew that they didn't need to be in foster care. And I was a horrible mom. I'm just going to be honest. You know, I was like, horrible mom. I wasn't there for them. I didn't fight for them. I thought I had to have their dads to have them, which was crazy. You know, you don't think of that. It's something that happens,

but it does. Women, not just drugs, but it became the men that was in my life, became above everything else, too. So I get the forgery charges, so they run them concurrent, and I'm on my way to prison, and I went to court for a while over that. So this was 2014, but time I got to court, I mean in prison, sitting in county jail and then go on to prison. While they're into prison, I think I've done a year in nine months. But Darren, I think it was after a year I was there. I can't remember the time they gave me. I think it was like seven years.

It's supposed to do 14 months and go home. But at that time, I had my parole plans approved to go to my mom. And I got a call out of the barracks one day, and I'm thinking, man, am I going to make my phone call early? I mean, you know what that feels like. They call you. I'm going to the chaplain's office, and they tell me that my mom died. So we never made that reconnection of, like, restoration.

And in there, like, you just don't cry. And I remember two days after, they're telling me, so at the McPherson Unit, Newport, swine flu outbreak happens. There's no coming or going. The police officer's there to come get me and go to my mom's funeral, and they tell me I can't go. That was difficult. I remember just, man, I knew I was like, I can't cry, got to suck this up.

I go back in the barracks, and a few days after that, the chaplain calls me down there, and he's like, well, we had to tell the parole officer that your mom died, so you're going to have to, like, go to a halfway house. I'm like, man, always come on to my mom, you know? Like, this is, I felt like in a way like she enabled me. At that time, like, that's why I ended up staying. you know, a year and nine months because I had to, I didn't know how to ride a halfway house. I didn't know what that looked like.

Nobody helped me. They give you a list and you figured it out. And they're worse in some cases than prison. Oh yeah, the one that I walked into, I went to one in Little Rock and they had you sitting on a crate. It was a behavior modification program and they were telling you about yourself. Well, I was not having it. Three weeks in there and I rolled out and went to another one.

Done really good for a little while, you know, started going to cosmetology school. And then I remember, like, I have kids at home. I thought, well, let me go, not move back to Manila, but close enough, Jonesboro, Arkansas, right? Let me just go back there. So I'm telling this proloxer, I was like, look, I can't live here in Little Rock. This is a hot mess.

This is too much for me. I'm going to go and go to Johnsboro at the women's shelter. So I ended up staying clean like 18 months, started going to a 12-step program, got a sponsor really trying to do something different. But I still didn't know if I really wanted it. You know, we get in those aspects sometimes where we self-sabotage ourselves. I got a job, started doing really good, moved up as a shift leader, and then I was like, I don't know, what if I mess up now? Like, what's that going to

look like? So, home and getting home and doing that, I just was, it got so much on me, and then they wouldn't let me see my kids. And I was like, well, what am I sober for? She's going to go bigger, go home, right? That's what I had the attitude as. And I think I was out there for about two years. And in between that time, I had went to four other 30-day treatments. And it's still not clicking, right? Like, this is, why can't I stay sober?

Then again, I'm not really healing and getting the help that I need. Nobody's talking to me about. Maybe you need to talk to somebody about what's going on in your past. They're just there to get you clean for 30 days, and then you go back home. Then it wasn't real big about the, you know, like transitional living after 30-day treatment, right? You didn't hear a lot about that.

They may have had one that was connected into Jonesboro, really hard to get into. At that time, it isn't now. Like, you can go there and they'll keep you into treatment until they have an opening and then they'll let you go, which is amazing now. So they're doing big things there now helping individuals, men and women, going to transitional living.

but I'm out there for two years and I was just, I didn't got arrested two more times in between that two years, right, going to court over it. And then finally I get arrested again. I'm in county jail the third time, right? And a girl told me, she's like, you know, if you go to a faith-based rehab, you might not go to prison, right? I was like, no, no, no, they're going to push Jesus on me. And she's like, well, you might not go to prison.

you said you didn't want to go again and I was just really tired but I didn't know if I could succeed like what it really looked like so I get this was in December of 2016 in county jail I ride on I get an acceptance letter and out of the blue my uncle that you know did a lot of my mess with he bonds me out at midnight dude and I'm like I just had three hots in a car it's waiting to go this treatment what's wrong with you you know me and his girlfriend at that time didn't get along and he's like well he ain't come to my house I was like why did you pawn me out at midnight I'm thinking people probably thought I snitched or something well that didn't happen so at that time my sister had um had my apartment I had like a condominium of course like I was selling drugs in that

time so she pulled my car over the scales like I had no car no apartment to go home to nothing and I was like what am I going to do well I'm going to call my homies right even though I had this letter and I didn't want to go to jail again I really didn't want to get high but I had no other I felt like there was no other option for me. Nobody told me like maybe you could call me and we can help you and have anybody to help me along the way to know that they were positive influences on my life. So I get there and I'm like two weeks into using and I'm like, man, I don't want to do this anymore. So I call the treatment center and it was faith-based, it was Restoration House Ministries in Harrisburg, Arkansas.

The place saved my life. She said, well, if you come, you're going to be sober a few days. And I was like, well, I'll just use yesterday. And she's like, well, you're going to be clean a few days. So somebody told me one time that you'll do what you need to do, like you did what you need to do when you wanted to get drugs. So I walked around this neighborhood and found an abandoned apartment, no electricity, no water, and I slept there for two days.

My last day of use was January 24th of 2017, and my clean date is the 25th of January of 2017. That was your breaking point right there. Yeah. Went into treatment. I was there like a month and maybe 17 days. Went to court on March 14th and they still sentenced me to prison from a treatment, from a non-month-long treatment. Wouldn't even let me finish it. How much prison time did they give you? Well, to be crazy, they were trying to violate 50 years, SIS. 50 years? Trying. I mean, it was all God, like, because I'm going to tell you that that's a lot of time. And I already had like also like these two pending charges that I got arrested for. And I'm like, this is bad business.

But the prosecutor, I mean, I only got a three-year sentence and I did six months. And that was the last time you ever went to prison? It's the last time we ever went to prison. But in that time period, like I really wanted to take advantage what was in prison. So there was a Pals program. which is a faith-based program inside a prison. I don't know if they have that in federal prison or not. I didn't really do much programming when I was in prison.

Yeah, I mean, I did a lot of this stuff to take off time before, but it was never educational or helpful. You know, it was just a, let me get 10 days off, you know. But I had already started feeling a relationship with God at that time. You know, he was feeling to me what nothing else ever did. Like he was the last thing I tried, but the first thing that worked. So going to that, he just filled me with so much joy. It's like going to prison the last time didn't bother me.

And that's weird. I'm just telling you, it's weird to hear me say that. But it didn't bother me. Like, I had peace in there. I went in that program, and I had heard about Cornerstone Transitional Home that it was faith-faced. And I'm like, man, I went to a halfway house before. I don't know about this life, you know.

But I had no other toys. I had to be self-sufficient and nobody to go to. like my grandmother's already in a nursing home. Like I got it, I don't need to put the burden on them anymore. It's time to grow up. So I went to that program and I lived there 18 months before I moved out. I was able to get a factory job that I had never worked in a factory because my dad was like, you're not factory material.

It's okay. So I always did like fast food and get shift leader positions because I like to be in a leader. You know, I just, I think maybe it's because I like being bossy. I'm just going to be honest. But, I mean, that's what they told me. me, but at this factory in Newport, Arkansas, like, I excelled. Started out at 9.50 an hour and left as a shift coordinator right underneath the supervisor, you know, and I was able to buy my first home when I moved out of that transitional home.

They gave me tools, and we done life school classes, and we had therapy. Like, they helped us. They showed us that there was things that we needed to do, you know, to go to work every day, because I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know how to pay bills. I didn't know how to adult. Like somebody had to show me those things. I mean, I grew up in prison, it felt like.

I didn't know how to be a mom. I didn't even think that I can go in my daughter's life. You know, and while in prison the last time, I got adoption papers on her. This is the one that I have a great relationship today. Like, we were just video chatting last night, and I told her I was going to come on here, and she's like, just don't embarrass me, Mom. Well, you're doing a good job. You're not embarrassing her.

No, no. She's a great kid. You know, and she's going to college. She's a straight-A student. And, like, I'm thankful that her grandmother adopted her. I don't know if she would turn out as good as she did if I would have raised her. Do you feel like the universe kept sending you back to prison until you finally had, like, that moment that got you clean?

I believe that. I believe that he got me some tools beforehand to let me know that there's a different way. But I had to be shown that there was because no, ever talked about really getting help. I didn't know what that I could actually own a home. Like, who does that? Like, I didn't think that was possible. Like, you don't hear people going to prison and they own their own home.

Yeah. You know, so with that home that I first bought, we now turned it into a men's transition home, me and my husband. Oh, that's so cool. Isn't he here at the conference? He is not here. He was at the last one, though. Oh, okay. When I met you, he was there with me.

Okay, gotcha. I was going to say you should have told him to come to this thing if he was here. Well, he is a supervisor at the factory that I first worked at. But when we met, he was a director of a men's ministry when we met. Gotcha. Yeah. That's awesome. So you had mentioned before that you felt like you were a terrible mother.

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Choose the Lego Center. The gift that always clicks. Get that time back to kind of go back and fix it. It took me a lot of healing to do that. I'm going to tell you because the kids can forgive you, but it's so hard to forgive yourself. But you also have to own what you did. You have to say, hey, I was horrible.

But that's not what she would tell you today. You know, like she loves her mom. You know, when we get to talk, and we get to just share memories now. But she's so proud of me, though. And I told her I was going to do peer recovery, and she's like, so proud of you, Mom. Like to hear my daughter say those things,

it's so heartfelt that you start to forgive yourself. I mean, it takes time. I'm not going to lie. It's a process. I mean, clean almost, well, seven and a half years. And it takes a long time. Do you ever have those tempting? patience or urges to use again?

I've never had one since I've been cleaning sober. I think I just kind of gave that up when I found that there was a new way. You have something to live for. I do. Yeah, we own a new home, and then we own a home that's a transition. And me and my husband have a great life, you know, and it's, I never thought that I could have, you know, like my husband's, he's a God-free man. But not just that. Like, I don't have to worry about him cheating.

And I'm not going to go through his phone. He's not going to go through mine. We're not going to yell. We're not going to cussie. each other. Of course, we argue every couple does that, but we're not going to talk crazy to each other. I'm not going to cuss him. It's not that toxic relationship. Like, I never knew what a good relationship looked like until him. That's amazing. Yeah. And a big part of peer recovery is using your lived experience to help someone else. Do you believe that you've been able to help people by sharing your story and

your personal experience? I do. And there's sometimes, like, I will share deeper, intimate things with people that's happened to me because I feel like it can help them. And also not just using our lived experience, but having the resources to help them. Like, there's going to be a lot that don't have IDs. I don't know how to get it. Like, I was born in Memphis, Tennessee. I didn't live there, but I was born there. So when I got out, I had to order my first certificate from Tennessee, you know? So that's, when you have to order those things, a lot of them don't know how to get their identification. Like, we've done that whole thing. I can't remember what they called it, but we were trying to get IDs and all this stuff and go to the halfway house.

And I was like, I don't remember it being that complicated. But now that there's other states, you see that it's complicated for them to get the necessities that they need. I mean, I walked out with a brown paper sack and a Bible and letters that my grandmother wrote me. So it's difficult. But using my lived experience, I love helping somebody know that they don't have to stay stuck in that lifestyle.

If you, I'll finish what you're saying. No, no, no, I want to hear the last part. Sorry, I cut you off there. I think I was almost done. I was just finishing that part, to be honest. Okay. If you could go back to your 18-year-old self, what would you tell that 18-year-old self

if you were in the room with her? That's difficult. I've never had anybody ask me that question. I'm known for asking a good question or two. It might take me a minute. I would think that I would tell her that to get help for the trauma that she's been through. Because a lot of people don't talk about it.

There's a lot of struggles that people go through that they don't talk about them. And it's okay to talk about them. I only have a sponsor and a therapist and all that good stuff now, you know, because I know it's necessary to keep my sobriety. Absolutely. Well, Cassie, thank you so much for sharing your incredible story. I'm sure it's going to hit home for a lot of listeners on our show.

And thank you so much for the constant support, you know, the comments on Facebook, the likes, pushing it out there, your energy. and I'm really glad that you're doing well and that, you know, you have a plan and successes in the future for you. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited to see you help other people get their story out. It's amazing to watch. I'm trying, you know, one day at a time, but there's a never-ending amount of stories.

And, you know, we're doing three a week and it's good to be out here in the field connecting with people. I mean, I was talking to someone the other day. I could be in a position where the whole show is mobile, you know, eventually, you know, going state to state or, you know, staying in an RV or, I don't know. You never know the sky's the limit now that I know how to do all of this now. Well, if you come back to Arkansas, please let me know because we, for the center that I work for, we got two peers on staff beside me and we're getting ready to hire more. Yeah, I'd love to go to Arkansas again. I had a great time that weekend there.

It was just really eye-opening, you know, to what they're doing there. And I'm very passionate about that. I know back then we said that we had like 500, but I know there has to be way more than that. Way more than that now. There's so many people that know that they can do something different and they're like, okay, this is a career. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, who would have thought that somebody that's been through what you've been through doing what you do

and me going to prison three times and doing what I do? It's amazing to watch. It makes us who we are. It gives us a special story. It makes us different against the grain, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Well, have a safe trip back to Arkansas. Do you drive or fly? So we are flying out tomorrow.

Okay. How long is the flight from here? So it says it's a three and a half hour. Oh, it's still three and a half hours? Well, because we got to fly to Atlanta and then Atlanta to Little Rock. Okay, yeah, we had a layover too. We were in Detroit and on the way back home, I think we have a layover in D.C. I was looking at that. Why can't they just have a direct flight?

Yeah, and then I have to fly out to Florida. just because we're going on our first big vacation. Oh, that's the whole family? Well, me and my husband, my daughter, she has to be at school so she graduates. Oh, that's so nice. Well, tell your husband I said hello. I will.

Thank you so much. And you can let him know that you did a killer job on the podcast. I'll let him judge that and let him watch it. I don't never, I like to be humble and just let him watch it. Just except when you're bossy, right, Tim. Yeah, I think everybody knows that I am, though. Good. Well, thank you, Cassie.

It's safe travels back. All right, thank you.