Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - BOMBSHELL: ACC's Most Valuable Brands REVEALED | Florida State and Clemson DOMINATE, But Who's Next?

Starting point is 00:00:00 There's been so much renewed conference realignment talk. The rumor mill has been churning. So here are the most valuable brands inside the ACC. You are locked on ACC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. Shout out to the everydayers and thank you so much for making Locked on ACC your first listen and your first watch. We're available free wherever you get your podcast. We're free on YouTube.

Starting point is 00:00:35 We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. He is Kenton Gibbs from Lockdown Wolfpack. He's a former NC State defensive linemen. I am Alex Dono from Lockdown Keynes. And on this episode, we'll talk about what to watch for in ACC training camps, which are by and large opening up all of them this week, albeit Miami's opening practice on Thursday. ACC football coaches have been ranked, updated ranking from CBSports.com.

Starting point is 00:01:02 But Kent, let's talk about most valid. valuable brands here because, again, everyone has started to do this thing where they start cherry picking, hey, which ACC team is going to go where in a couple of years. We discussed on yesterday's episode all the rumors about North Carolina having a handshake agreement with the SEC. And it's funny because, like, North Carolina is now the school with the most conference realignment buzz, at least for the moment, when they are, spoiler alert, Kent, and they are not considered to be the most valuable brand.

Starting point is 00:01:34 inside the ACC? What? I'm shocked, Donald. I'm appalled, Donald, that they're not considered the most valuable brand in ACC. But it makes sense why they have the most buzz, as it's been presented to me, because I am not above changing my opinion when I get new information. And the new information I've received about why the SEC will potentially want them makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure I 100% buy it, but at least it's rationale and logic that I can understand

Starting point is 00:02:03 the piece together. In the case of North Carolina, obviously basketball adds a ton, you know, arguably more than football to their brand. Right. But Matt Baker from the athletic took a look at the most valuable, specifically the most valuable football programs in the ACC, from most valuable to least valuable. So let's start. The top two Kenton are predictable, right? The two programs that, you know, were suing the ACC or no longer suing the ACC because the conference settled. with them on pretty favorable terms a few months ago. But any surprise here that Florida State is actually number one over Clemson,

Starting point is 00:02:44 Matt Baker estimates $867 million worth to Florida State's football program, 665 to Clemson. Now, of course, Clemson, they've gotten the two national championships since 2016, but then, of course, if you zoom out a couple of decades, and Florida State it wasn't that long ago, they won a Natty in 2013. but then obviously if you zoom out Florida State really became a powerhouse program in the 1980s where Clemson didn't really become a powerhouse program until about 15 years ago. This is the difference between old money and new money. This is the difference between rich and wealthy, right?

Starting point is 00:03:21 That's what we're seeing play out between these two. Florida State has had decades, almost half a century of, hey, we have been a preeminent brand in the ACC or in the nation actually, not just the ACC in the nation. And so that's why last year was such a gut punch to Florida State because the nose have always been at least serviceable. At worst, it's like, they'll go 6 to 6.6. They'll get to a bowl game. They'll be all right.

Starting point is 00:03:49 I remember they had that super long street of going to bowl games that seemed like it was going to go on forever in a day. And that's generally what you saw there as opposed to Clemson. They're the upstart. Many would say they're on a better trajectory. Many would say, hey, these two teams, Clemson, Florida State wants nothing to do with Clemson right now. And that would be true, but that is new money. That is very recent.

Starting point is 00:04:15 That is, if you look at, I believe, Clemson won one national championship in the 80s, and then after that, what? What was it? Was there perennial, you know, every year them in South Carolina was a game that determined who was going to go to national championship, like we saw between Florida State and Miami? Was it that type of deal? No. Did they have anything in that realm up until the mid-2000s? No.

Starting point is 00:04:43 And even the mid-2000s, that was just from their beginning of takeoff. So these two brands being where they are not really a surprise, seeing Florida State to top, not really a surprise if you understand the difference between new money and old money. Yeah, and so the way Baker frames it is, If you were hypothetically going to like buy an ACC football program, the way that NFL owners buy and sell teams,

Starting point is 00:05:06 that that's how much Florida State would be worth. He puts them at $867 million. He writes, their football program rakes in an average yearly revenue of $86.1 million. Florida State is aided by the conference's new uneven television distribution model, which pays schools out by ratings. The Seminals also recently settled a lawsuit with the ACC alongside Clemson that helps paint a clearer picture for potential exit from the conference down the line.

Starting point is 00:05:32 Now, for Clemson, he values a little over 200 million less at 665 million. Then Miami comes in at number three at 604 million. He says Miami's future in the ACC has also been thrown into question alongside Clemson and Florida State. The hurricanes are a nationally recognized program with a rich history. However, they haven't made a college football playoff or finished as a top 10. team in over two decades. For this, Baker sees Miami on par with SEC programs like Ole Miss and Arkansas. Those programs ranked 23rd and 25th on the nationalist. Miami ranks 24th on the

Starting point is 00:06:08 nationalist. And it's like, you know, for Miami, Kenton, obviously the brand has always been there. I mean, the U, up the U, the U on the helmet. And, of course, within about a 20-year period from 1983 to, you know, about 2003, Miami was always in the mix. They won five national championships within that span. They lost their way. They seem to be on track for finding their way in terms of some of the results on the field of talent that they're bringing in.

Starting point is 00:06:34 So obviously, if the hurricanes had been more consistent for the last 20 years, they may even be higher than they are 24th overall and third in the ACC. But I think it's a testament to how powerful that U brand is that despite a lot of poor results over the years, they've still maintained a high value.

Starting point is 00:06:52 Do you want to talk about a powerful brand? I am from Detroit, Michigan, okay, as far north in this country as you can go without going up the East Coast. And yet, I wore 99 because Warren Sapp wore 99. Like that's how powerful that brand is. They have bona fide legends, stars, all that stuff. Like you said, the inconsistency held them back. Another thing that I think holds Miami back a little bit more than some people want to acknowledge here is on top of that inconsistency, the fan attendance and kind of showing up and showing out has going up and down with the team's

Starting point is 00:07:30 performance as opposed to some other teams where even when they're terrible, those fans are still going to sit there and watch their three and nine. Like, oh, this is great point. This is great. Yeah, because South Floridians do not find time if they don't think they're going to see a winner. It's like, all right, I can go to the beach or if it's a noon game, I'm going to stay out to the club until 5 a.m. I'm not waking up for a new.

Starting point is 00:07:52 It's a very, very selective sports crowd, which, listen, someone who grew up there and I'm a South Florida, it drives me freaking crazy because I've got that Midwestern mentality. Like when it comes to supporting my team, I don't care how bad you are. I'm still going to go up but watch it. It's just it's not the mentality of that city, but, you know, you take the good with the bad, Kenton. Because again, when, when Miami is good, people show up like the Miami Heat when they were consistently good. they had one of the longest sellout streaks in the NBA. It's how it works in Miami. They do not show up for a six and six type of team because there's way too many other things to do down there.

Starting point is 00:08:30 Yeah. And again, this is an excellent brand, elite brand. They're top five in the conference of 18 for a reason, top 25 in the nation for a reason. This is a brand that is indeed Brolic, as some would say. All right. So let's take a look at now they do, they do rank North Carolina fourth on the list. at $572 million. Then you've got Virginia Tech,

Starting point is 00:08:54 which, man, I would not have penciled them in the top five. That was the one that shocked for them. That was the one that shocked, yeah. All right. So the next one, like above average top six, NC State, Kenton, were you any surprise that they crack that top six? Because people don't often talk about the Wolfpack being the big brand. You know, the thing about it is the things that they said about the Wolfpack,

Starting point is 00:09:16 I looked at it and I said, you know what? It fits and it makes sense. North Carolina and NC State both benefit from North Carolina's growth. There's a running joke in North Carolina like, oh, yeah, you were raised in Brooklyn, North Carolina. There is no city corporate in North Carolina. It's a joke about all the New York transplants that moved down to North Carolina because it's too expensive to live there. So obviously, you're seeing a massive population growth through that migration, but you're also seeing a, you know, when you talk about the triangle, how many elite academic institutions can you cram? into basically a 50-mile radius,

Starting point is 00:09:51 where they've got the answer for you, three of them right there in terms of NC State, UNC, and Duke. So, you know, they both of those schools have that going for them. But the thing that I love so much about this article, they put at the end of NC State's fan base. Their contingent is mighty and rabid. That is absolutely correct for NC State fans,

Starting point is 00:10:11 because it doesn't, they're not going to be the biggest group. We are not, nobody is ever going to lie to you and say, NC State has the biggest fan. fan base in the state of North Carolina. NC State has the biggest fan base in the nation. We're not going to say that. But if you say who's passionate, the first time I took the Walk of Champions

Starting point is 00:10:28 was my true freshman year when I was recovering from a torn Achilles. And it was lying with people waiting there. And I thought to myself, wow, this is insane because that year we were three and nine. We went three and nine. It was one of the last games of the season. So I thought to myself,

Starting point is 00:10:44 this is insane that people still show out for this. And even more ironic, it's called the Walk of Champions, even though NC State had not had a championship in terms of ACC or national in terms of football, basketball, or baseball, at that time, 30 plus year or 25 plus years at that time. So, you know, it is, it's very interesting to see UNC being there, not a surprise. Obviously, you've got a lot in terms of there's just a national brand from basketball and that's going to spill over to football somewhat. But, and, you know, Virginia Tech is the one where I'm like, huh, Virginia Tech. I was surprised. You know, is Metallica giving them royalties to play their song? They do a reverse royalties.

Starting point is 00:11:29 What's going on here? But Virginia Tech being that big of a brand, I think is very interesting because they are a very story program. Fun fact, in Beamer's tenure, there was like an 11-year or 12-year stretch where they won 10 games every single year except two. And those two years, they won nine and eight, I believe, where the, where the amount of wins. So that is a very story program with a ton of success that, you know, you go back to the Berman

Starting point is 00:11:57 days of Recant or recall, rather, but they need to bring it back. You know, this is the worst time to be bad. This is the worst time for any team to be bad because you need to get your brand valuation up. Well, coming up next, since there is so much, conference realignment talk. If things do go south with the ACC, what would be the best conference fits for these top brands? Plus, there's a couple of brands I thought would have been ranked higher. A couple of football programs who were not ranked nearly as high as we thought. You want to keep it locked right here. We're only getting started on this brand new episode of locked on ACC.

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Starting point is 00:14:40 Ah, this is a tough one. This is the ACC lobby was trying to silence me there. But if I had to say where Florida State would most belong, I would say the big team. The big team should be desperate to get their hands on Florida State for a multitude of reasons. Number one, I think that they're either right there or on their way to getting the necessary academic accreditations that the big 10 have. And we all know, we all know those accreditations matter so long as the money's not involved. When enough scryl, when enough greenbacks comes into play, all of a sudden, you know, the accreditations get a little light. But more importantly, one of the more interesting things that I bought up earlier with North Carolina also applies with Florida State in that the SEC has its hooks in the state of Florida already.

Starting point is 00:15:31 You can say, hey, you need to get Tallahassee in the capital market. But if anything, there's another market in Florida that the SEC may see us. as much more lucrative potentially because of the direction of which that program is trending, which we will get to later. But I think the Big Ten makes a ton of sense in terms of we want to get, we want to plant our flag in your territory, walking your trap, take over your trap type of vibes. I think that makes a lot of sense for Florida State. I'll meet you halfway.

Starting point is 00:16:00 I think that the SEC is a better fit for Florida State, but Florida State is a better fit for the Big Ten. Let me explain what I mean. I think the Big Ten wants Florida State more for part of the reason why you stated, right? They want to become a true coast-to-coast elite compromise. I know the ACC is now coast-to-coast, but the Big Ten wants to do even bigger, and they don't have a footprint in Florida, right? They're all the way out on the West Coast with USC and UCLA and Oregon,

Starting point is 00:16:30 but they don't have anything on the East Coast. So it's very obvious to me why the Big Ten would want Florida State. But if I'm Florida State, if I actually had a choice, and they may not, But if I actually had a choice, I think the SEC is a much bigger fit. The travel burdens would be so much easier, not just for football, but all the other sports, non-revenue sports. It just makes more sense geographically. You know, you could be in the same conference with Florida.

Starting point is 00:16:56 So you could still keep playing them every year without having to use a non-conference game on that. So I think that would make sense. And honestly, if I'm the SEC, and the SEC, according to reports anyway, they don't want Florida State as much as the Big Ten does. Maybe they should, though, because honestly, if you're the SEC, you could basically play defense and say, okay, well, we may not want them that much, but it's not good for us if the Big Ten get them. Because all of a sudden, like, the Southeast, that's our territory.

Starting point is 00:17:26 Like, we have the elite brands locked up. So if you were to see Florida State and Clemson go in to the Big Ten, suddenly the Big Ten is as well. And they're doing what you're supposed to do with teams from that region. And so, yeah, I think basically for, for, I look at the SEC as being the better fit. And then also the academic stuff, like, you know, Florida State. I know that they're improving their rankings and stuff. They're working on that research designation.

Starting point is 00:17:52 But, you know, they're a little bit better of an academic fit for the SEC as well. I'll say it that way. But the Big Ten seems to want them more. What about what about Clemson? Because it's like, again, I think SEC by far is the better fit for them. But I keep hearing, well, we already have a team from Florida. We already have a team from South Carolina. I don't see why you can't have both.

Starting point is 00:18:13 The SEC is by far the best fit for Clemson. Everything about Clemson's culture fits in with the SEC. What do I mean by that? All of the teams in the SEC, or not all of them, but a vast majority of the teams in the SEC have something in common. If I were to ask you, what is Alabama's professional football team? What would you say? The Crimson Tide.

Starting point is 00:18:38 If I were to ask you what's Mississippi's professional basketball team? What was it saying? The Ole Miss Rebels. Oh, okay. If I was to go down the list of almost every single SEC market, their professional team is their college team. And if I were to ask you the same thing about South Carolina, nobody likes the Hornets that much.

Starting point is 00:19:03 Nobody likes the Panthers that much. You can never have too many teams when they're, they are your professional team. That's the difference between Florida State and Clemson. Florida State and Florida, you've got a ton of professional teams. And some of them are damn good, especially hockey. I don't know when Florida took over and the lightning to the Panthers and all that. But they've got a ton of very good teams.

Starting point is 00:19:28 So it kind of gets oversaturated. South Carolina, those are two professional teams like Alabama and Auburn. That's their version of that. And therefore, they're a great fit for the SEC. And on top of that, they're in Ag school. Ag schools, SEC, it just fits. That's a good point on the Ag school. I hadn't thought of that.

Starting point is 00:19:53 Now, like for Miami, geographically outside of that, I think the Big Ten would make more sense. You know, already Miami's a designated research institution, smaller private school, which you don't, you know, I don't have many of those in the SEC. Be Vanderbilt.

Starting point is 00:20:10 It's not few and far between in the SEC, you know, where the academic standards seem to fit the Big Ten a little bit more. Now, I don't, honestly, I hope the ACC finds a way to stick around because the thing about Miami to the Big Ten, I can't even imagine, oh, we got to go to Minnesota to play in November. Like, what?

Starting point is 00:20:30 That's not Miami. We've got to go to Nebraska to play on Thanksgiving weekend. Like, that just, it feels so foreign to me. but I think outside of geography, the Big Ten would make more sense than the SEC for a small, private, academic, heavy institution like Miami. I'm going to tell you something, Donna. You ever seen a rom-com where the couple that should love each other, the main couple, for whatever reason, something's happened to drive a wedge between them, and they've turned their backs on each other, and somebody's got to run to them.

Starting point is 00:21:00 Exactly. One of them's running to the airport. One of those running from the airport, they meet in the middle. that's what Miami and the SEC would need to do. Let me explain why. First of all, what you said about the cold weather, a lot of people don't understand how cold it gets in terms of going up to the big house to play in November.

Starting point is 00:21:22 Oh, baby, you have no clue what you are in for. Going up to Minnesota, Iowa to play Rutgers, New Jersey. I'm trying to tell you. you stay in the hot weather, stay where it's safe. Do you not realize all the major bowl games for the most part are in warm weather places? Big time stuff happens in the board.

Starting point is 00:21:46 Nobody wants to go to the damn Fedway bowl. No offense. No offense to the good folks over there. No offense. Nobody wants to go. People want to go to the Tostino's PSA ball. When people want to go there? So I'm trying to tell you, Miami and the SEC need each other.

Starting point is 00:22:00 The SEC cannot let that Miami market, that South Florida market get away. because Miami is South Florida's football team. That's just what it is. You cannot let that get away and go to the Big Ten. But like you said, Donald, the academics are there, and I get a feeling that the SEC is kind of still in there uppity. We have a footprint in Florida already.

Starting point is 00:22:24 You don't got that. And when that one is good, that Miami footprint is different when they're dominant. So hold on. So going through this list again, because we got through the top six. which have Florida State, Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia Tech, NC State. How about Louisville and Georgia Tech rated 7th and 8th? This is the value of their football programs. That feels a little bit low for both.

Starting point is 00:22:50 You know, Louisville has become a much bigger brand in that sport. And Georgia Tech is, I feel they're on the way up. They had some really good years with Paul Johnson, not the most exciting team to watch when they were running the 19-4. 40s offense, but they had some really good years. Brent Key is bringing them back. And they're in one of the biggest markets in America. We're talking about Miami being a big market.

Starting point is 00:23:14 Atlanta is an even bigger market. Atlanta is a bigger market. Atlanta is a terrible sports town. It's a god-awful sports town in terms of it's known as such a transient city where people are like coming and going and people aren't staying long term. It's like, hey, you go there to get your career off the ground or whatever the case may be before you go where you actually land, which makes it tough. which makes it tough for Atlanta.

Starting point is 00:23:36 But I will say this. Both of those schools have different conferences that I think they be great in, but I think that both of them are brands on the rise. Louisville, the Big 12 is your home, brother. That's where you would need to be. Drake told, congratulations. We gave you one. But Georgia Tech, SEC country.

Starting point is 00:23:56 That's where you need to be. You need to be one of the few academic bastions in the SEC. You're in SEC country already, and you're winning recruiting battles. there keep it up keep up the good work be a brand that brings up the GPA per se of the SEC we got to have drake toll on this show soon because i i keep getting messages from locked on canes listeners who are like drake toll keeps putting miami in the big 12 he doesn't like twice a week he does an episode where the big 12's adding miami it's like i mean he's hypothesizing which is fine but i mean i keep having an answer to locked on can

Starting point is 00:24:34 listeners about why Commissioner Drake Toll has put the Hurricanes in the Big 12. I got to explain he's not the commissioner. He's close to me. He might take the commissioner's job soon. Let me tell you though. We get excited about a million lifetime listeners and Drake Toll is hitting a million listeners. He is the

Starting point is 00:24:50 king of getting the click. He is the king of getting the click. That young man knows what he's doing. And he knows, like I said, that Miami brand when it is powerful, oh, it's unmatched. It's unmatched. And right now, Mario Cristoball is. I wouldn't say he's got it on Super Soldier, sir,

Starting point is 00:25:08 but it's on the way. It's on the way back. There are one national championship away from everybody throwing up to use again like we were in the early 2000. So speaking of which, I'm going to be at training camp later this week for Miami, got training camps starting around the ACC.

Starting point is 00:25:25 Here's what to expect. You want to keep it locked. We're not done yet on this brand new episode. Thank you for making locked on ACC your first listen. For your next listen, check out our other shows. Kent and Gibbs and Grace and Boone talk all things Wolfpack on Locked on Wolfpack, Breaking Down NC State. I break down Miami on Locked on Cains. All right. So, Kenton, if you could, if you could choose one training camp practice to go to, because pretty much,

Starting point is 00:25:51 you know, all the ACC camps are opening up this week. If you could pick one training camp to attend this week, whose would you want to go to? Where would you want to be a fly on the wall? Well, I know that this is going to hurt some of my NC State listeners, but I'm I'm already a credentialed media member. You know, I got access if I needed. But if I had to get one, I'm going to pick one that I don't have access to in that same way. It would definitely be Georgia Tech. I want to see what their day one looks like.

Starting point is 00:26:16 I feel like he is one of those coaches that goes full pads on day one. Hey, damn the torpedoes. And he's having to like everybody turn the cameras off. Do not report me to the NCAA because we're going to break a few rules with our day one drills. We are thumping out the gate. He seems like that type of guy. And I want to be a flaw in the wall for that. His team's always well prepared.

Starting point is 00:26:39 They're always super physical. And when I think about those things, I think about people who start hitting early. So I'd love to be at day one of Georgia Tech. I think I'd go for North Carolina. You know, are the players, I know for spring practice, they didn't have names or numbers on their jerseys. Are they still doing that? Like, you got to earn your number and your name on the back of the jersey. what's Gio Lopez going to look like a quarterback for them.

Starting point is 00:27:06 You know, because I think people have this idea in their head that, you know, Bill Belichick, who's the greatest NFL coach, at least the, you know, the most successful in terms of Super Bowl rings, NFL coach of all time, can just go in there, wave a magic wand and turn North Carolina. Not everyone feels this way, but some might feel that, hey, greatest coach of all time. You're going to have an immediate season one impact. I don't know, Kenton, because I think it's going to take a couple years. I don't know how many years he's going to put in at Chapel Hill.

Starting point is 00:27:32 I think it's going to take some time to turn that program to a Bill Belichick standard. So I'd love to see how they look week one or practice number one. I would definitely, I would like to, another one I'll throw at you is Louisville because, you know, we've seen highs and lows from Miller Moss at USC. He had that bowl game a couple years ago. We were through six touchdown passes. So, I mean, is he going to look like an alpha, his first day, you know, in that huddle fall camp coming up for, for Brom? and, you know, Watson and, and Isaac Brown, that running back duo, I'd like to watch them practice as well.

Starting point is 00:28:10 I'll tell you what, those two are my favorites for the Pony Express Award, which is awarded to the best duo of players on the same side of the ball every year. And I think that those two are phenomenal. I think the world of them. And I'll tell you, there are some very interesting storylines coming out of there. And if I had to pick a secondary team behind Georgia Tech in terms of who I want to see, Dono, I said I was drinking this Kool-Aid. I'm still on it. Take me up to Blacksburg.

Starting point is 00:28:38 Let's see what we got going on in Virginia Tech because I like Donovan Green a lot. I love me some Donovan Green. And again, I think that that slow mesh offense, while it was bad for running backs, I think it was great for receivers. I want to see what Donovan Green looks like when it's like, hey, it's no longer the situation where RPO's are so heavy that you know you're not going to have to do a ton in terms of understanding where the linebackers are as well when you're getting open. But even beyond that, he's a burden.

Starting point is 00:29:06 He plays on the outside anyway. So I'm very intrigued to see what he does with Kyron Dros, what that relationship looks like and how they develop. And also, probably is a defensive guy. What does the defense look like? How do you replace all those sacks from Austin Powell, Riding, and those guys from last year? What do you do to kind of make up for that?

Starting point is 00:29:26 I'm ready to see it. A few other top contending level teams that have new. quarterbacks that I'd like to watch. I'd love to watch Darian Mensa's first. I can't practice with Duke. Thomas Castellanos's first camp practice with Florida State. And I will be watching Carson Beck on his first practice on Thursday because, yeah, he was with Miami in the spring, but he wasn't clear to throw. So I haven't really watched Beck practice with Miami yet. So I'm excited to get eyes on him on Thursday. Oh, yeah, that should be a good time. And again, like we have already talked about he has not thrown the past or receivers in the spring but now it's time now

Starting point is 00:30:05 it's the i'm sure he has at this point throwing a ball around and run some routes with those guys and whatnot so now it's time you've taken all the mental reps and all that and also i want to warn everybody camp is physical and it comes with injuries okay understand that's part of the game there are going to be some guys that we're expecting big things from this year that may go down it's part of the game it's part of the reality everybody's going to be in the best shape of their lives. It's part of the game. It's part of the reality. Okay. So let's not get too invested in it and lose our lids about it. Just be glad that things may happen early enough to where your teams have time to figure out a replacement strength. Well, we'll talk about the first,

Starting point is 00:30:49 the opening days of camp on our next episode. Make sure you check out Kenton and Grace and Boone on Locked on Wolfpack and follow Kenton on X at TGIF underscore Kenton. Follow me at Alex Dono and on Locked Keynes and we'll talk to everyone next time on another episode of Lockdown ACC. We are part of the awesome Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team every day.

Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - BOMBSHELL: ACC's Most Valuable Brands REVEALED | Florida State and Clemson DOMINATE, But Who's Next?

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