Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - BOMBSHELL: Thomas Castellanos Makes BOLD Claim | Can Florida State SHOCK Alabama?

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Bold words and fiery comments: Thomas Castellanos ignites controversy with Alabama challenge. Can the Florida State Seminoles quarterback back up his trash talk?Hosts Jackson Holzer and Kenton Gibbs dissect Castellanos' audacious claim that Alabama can't stop him without Nick Saban. The discussion shifts to a groundbreaking lawsuit as Wisconsin accuses Miami of player tampering. Explore the potential ramifications for college football recruiting and the challenges of proving these allegations. Former NC State defensive tackle Gibbs offers insider perspective on the complexities of the transfer portal era.Tune in for a deep dive into Castellanos' on-field performance, the intricacies of the Wisconsin-Miami legal battle, and the future of college football recruiting in this can't-miss episode. Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!RugietRugiet Ready is a next-gen prescription treatment designed to amplify arousal in the brain and boost blood flow. Head to Rugiet.com/LOCKEDONCOLLEGE and use code LOCKEDONCOLLEGE to get 15% off today. GametimeToday's episode is brought to you by Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONCOLLEGE for $20 off your first purchase. Terms and conditions apply. Monarch MoneyTake control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONCOLLEGE at www.monarchmoney.com/lockedoncollege for 50% off your first year. FanDuelRight now, new customers can get ONE HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS when your first FIVE DOLLAR BET WINS! Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Thomas Castiano said, what? You are locked on ACC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. Hello, everyone, and welcome into Locked on ACC. I'm Jackson Holeser, filling in for Alex Dono. I am the host of Locked on Syracuse. Of course, we're always joined by Kenton Gibbs, former NC State Defense. of tackle and a co-host of the Locked-on NC State Wolfpack podcast here on the Locked-on

Podcast Network. And here on today's show, we got another lawsuit relating to the ACC with Stonson suing Miami for tampering. We'll talk all about that later on in the show. It's regarding Xavier Lucas. Remember that whole debacle back in December and January. That's coming up later. But we're going to start the podcast talking about Thomas Castiano's.

comments regarding playing Alabama, the first week of the 2025 college football season. All that and more here on today's edition of Locked-on ACC. And before we get to everything, today's episode is brought to you by Fandu. Right now, new customers can get $150 in bonus bets when your first $5 bet wins. So, Kenton, before I ask your reaction to this quote from Thomas Castellanos, I kind of have to set the stage, right? got to kind of tell the audience what exactly this guy said because he said it today Monday, June 2030, told on three's Pete Nacos about playing Alabama in week one this season, quote, they don't have Nick Sabin to save them.

I just don't see them stopping me. Yeah, Kenton, that was my reaction to. Thoughts. I, the thing that's blowing me about it, and I hate to be this guy because anybody who knows, knows, I'm players rights. Players in power. More power to the players. You know, they're the bodies that generate the revenue.

They're all that. They deserve all the things. This episode is going to make me sound like an old man screaming at the clouds from beginning to the end. Because what? This is, I mean this very genuinely. I like Thomas Costalanos a lot. I really do. I really do.

Jackson and not first. those of you who are daily listeners to Locko and ACC, Jackson and I have had many verbal spats about Thomas Costellanos and my belief in him in Jackson's Lacked Arrow. At some point in time, we have to stop talking and play ball. This man is going on an off-season press run like I've never seen before. And I'm sure we're going to see him in Charlotte. I'm going to be there for the ACC kickoff this weekend and all that. I'm sure plenty of other hosts from Lockstone will be there.

And I'm sure he'll be one of the representatives for Florida State. You sure? You really think Florida State is now going to make him available? Well, here's the thing. I wouldn't be surprised if not, but I will say this, you kind of got to take your stark quarterback. You know, like it's rare that teams don't take their quarterback, and generally it's a bad sign.

If that's our quarterback no cup, it's a bad sign for the season to come. I'm going to say this, and I'm going to say it genuine. First, you talk about no prime time for your game with Alabama. Alabama lost the Vanderbilt last year. Alabama was not a playoff team last year. You all went 2 and 10. You all put up a date that is before Valentine's Day on the calendar. You understand?

That's not primetime worthy when you look at the slate of games. games coming that weekend. And now we're talking about who can and cannot stop you. At some point in time, I'm fine with you believing in yourself. I'm fine with you having that belief in yourself publicly or whatever the case may be. Why are we putting the cart before the horse? Why are we talking disrespectfully about the opponent? Before you've played a single snap of real game time live football with your crew that you're going to be bringing out there. Don't get me wrong. De Boers is not Saban.

Nobody would argue that. Nobody. They lost talent on the defense when Saban left. Absolutely. Nobody would disagree with that. You have now put yourself in position to look like either one of the all-time breaks or one of the all-time fools. Because if you come out and light it up, hey, you live.

it up. Everybody got to give you your guts. You know, you said they can't stop me and they couldn't stop me. But you've also put yourself in a position to be mocked and ridiculed on end, where here's the deal with that. Had you said nothing, you still would have been in a position for people to love on you and say, oh my God, this cons law is cool. If he went in that game and threw for 350 yards, rushed for another 75, and they win that game, and he doesn't say this. Jackson, that changes your opinion of it, doesn't. 100% I would come on here and I'd probably say I was I owe him an apology.

I owe everyone who said he was good an apology because I would I would come out and say like he he just dominated Alabama and when Florida State to an upset win. I mean, kudos to him. That's a way to shut up critics is just go out and play really well. And what if he didn't do that and didn't say this? What would your, what would your thoughts be there? Like he had a terrible game. My opinion of him wouldn't really change because it would just be I never thought he was that good

to begin with, so I'm not expecting anything. But now it's like he's putting a target on his back. And that's my point. That's my point. Take on Bama. He's not changing a guy like your opinion. But a guy like me, now, if I'm going to hitch my wagon to you, I've got to trust that's not going to put in the way.

You want to do that now. Oh, no, no, no, no. The wagon is unhits. The wagon is unhitted. I'm sorry, Thomas. I'm sorry. And maybe I'll come back on here in a couple of months from now and have to apologize to you. But the wagon's unhitched.

I can't follow you here, that I can't do. So I find this really, first of all, when has trash talking Alabama really worked out for people? Especially if you are, you know, not very good to begin with. We were talking off camera. It's one thing if it's Lamar Jackson, who says something like this.

Because when it was Lamar Jackson and Louisville, nobody could stop them. Nobody. I don't care who you were. If that's Cam Newton over at Auburn, Johnny Mansell, Texas A&M, I'm going to let you guys in a little secret. Yeah, you're not stopping.

Bama can't stop him with Nick Sabin. You think without Nick Sabin, they're going to stop him either? And as much as we ridicule Alabama for, you know, losing to Oklahoma and losing the Vanderbilt and not making the playoff this year and how they didn't deserve it anyway, and the fans are whining,

there's still a really good team. The reason why people were saying they should have a case is because they also had really good wins. Like they beat Georgia. This is a really, good Alabama team. I get it. The talent changes over every single year. But Thomas, I can't see a world where Alabama stops me. So Thomas Castellanos, you should go look at your college reference, go to your game log,

go look at your last game you played at Boston College. You let Syracuse basically end your Boston College career. And I'm saying that as the host of Locked on Syracuse. He went in that game, he goes two of seven for 14 yards, one touchdown, one pick, and he's got negative 10 rushing yards. He was benched and he quit on his team after that. And now I'm supposed to believe that he's going to lead Florida State to an upset over Alabama? And here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Even if you're a person like me who is a Bill O'Brien hater to the fullest. I don't believe that Bill O'Brien should be anybody's head coach at any point in time. I really and truly don't believe that. I think that he is one of the greatest examples of failing forward we have ever seen in life. I really and truly do. But you know what I also know is first year transfer quarterback. As an average, on general, so Miami fans, please don't come in here talking about Cam Ward because he was the exception, not the rule, on average, first year transfer quarterback stroke.

That's just to be expected, especially out of the gates. Sometimes they find their lab legs about halfway through the season. Sometimes they don't. But they struggle to start the season. And you're sitting up here saying, hey, there's no way they can stop me. Brother, it's a football team. Football is the ultimate. What sport, Jackson?

Team game. Team game. If anything, they can't stop us. And I'm sure he said something about, oh, we have talent either later on in the quarter before this. I didn't see the full interview. I did see the full, you know, bit there. So I'm not going to castigate him for not being a team player. But when you create a clip like this, you need to make sure you're saying we, the team, etc.

And I wouldn't even say, say this at all. Because, again, you're putting yourself in a position where this is your first live action against another team that wants to rip your head off. If your starting safety sees your slot receiver coming across the field on a dig route, and he has that dig route wind up. I mean, he's got that thing perfectly in his sights. Guess what? He's going to pull up because that's his teammate. That young man with the crimson helmet, with the white stripe, with the white numbers on the side,

you're going to send that young man to the injured reserve list. You understand? It's different. When those defensive linemen run by you, tap you on the hip, you know, that's all they can do. Because you're starting quarterback. If they touch you, you know, I have scholarships up for the line. They and I am. Actually, with Thomas Castagnos, he's a running quarterback.

He's going to get, as soon as he leaves the pocket, I mean, your quarterback production goes out the window. Either way, you cut a slice a big dog. In practice, that protection is there. Well, yeah. In the game? In the game? But that's what I'm saying. This is going to be your first time with real live, hey,

they're trying to rip my head off at Florida State. And we're just, we're talking like this already before we've even played a doubt. Okay, you've set yourself up. Either you're going to look really great, you're going to look like going to all-time breaks and catapult yourself into the Heisman conversation by week three, or people are going to be looking at you saying, we knew Florida State was awesome.

We knew it. I just know that he's not bad guy. And he's just not very good. That has been my stance over the past few years. I don't think he's accurate. I just, I think he is an athletic guy. He can run.

He can break tackles. And he shows glimpses of being a really, really good quarterback. The problem is that he's not an accurate. He's not accurate consistently. Right. He does not make the simple throws well. He, he, he's just a guy that flashes.

He, who is the animal? on a national show that said he's a social media quarterback about Justin Herbert? I can't even remember. Was it a Manuel Otto maybe? I think so. I think so. It might have been him who said Justin Herbert a few years ago as a social media quarterback. That's Thomas Tostiano's, in my opinion.

Because he'll make big time plays. And you'll watch on Twitter and you'll be like, holy crap, did you see what he just did? He ran around like five different people. And then he threw to a dart for a touchdown. Holy crap, this Thomas Tosteanos. Then he look at his box store. Then you actually watch every other play in the first. the game. You're like, this guy can't even make a stream pass. And now you're going to sit here and say

that Alabama can't stop you. Again, go look at how his career ended at Boston College. That's really all you need to know about him. This guy is going to probably throw three to four interceptions against Alabama in week one. That's if he's actually not benched beforehand. It's not going to go well for Florida State in week one. They can still make a bowl with him. He could take you to a bowl game, but that's really your ceiling with a guy like Thomas Tostiano's. But, Kenton, any last thoughts with this? Or do you want to move on talking about the Miami and Wisconsin lawsuit here? I mean, we can move on, but I just want to say, I do think he's a good quarterback.

I just think first year transfer in a situation where you're walking into a team that has a lot of cultural rot, even if your belief is they dug out all the rot last year, you now have to reestablish the new thing. And I think that takes time. Look at what Norville did the first time. They didn't just go 13 and 0 in Norville's first year. It took building up to that. It took building to get there. I think that this process will also be a building.

And, you know, we're writing end product checks with beginning of the rebuild process money. Well said. Coming up, we got another lawsuit in the ACC. It is Wisconsin suing. Miami for tampering. Myself and Kenton Gibbs will talk about that next year on Locked-on ACC. Summer sports are in full swing and whether you're all about baseball under the lights, golf on the green or high-stakes soccer action, Fandu is the best way to make every game even more exciting. You're already following the action. Why not make it a little more thrilling,

right? With Fandu, you can get in on the game while your friends are getting sunburned at the beach sure you're enjoying a nice day at the ballpark and say, hey, you know, maybe baseball can be a little bit slow at times. So why not put a little bet on there to make it more exciting live in-game parlays? And if you're new to Fanduil, well, it's the perfect time to sign up. New customers to bet just $150 in bonus bets. If your first bet wins, open the Fandual app today or visit Fandle.com slash locked on to get started. This is Lockdown ACC. I'm Jackson Holes are the host of Lockdown Syracuse, of course, always joined by Kenton Gibbs, former NC State defensive tackle and currently a co-host for the Locked-on NC State Wolfpack

podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Earlier on in the show, we had a conversation about Thomas Tostianos and the fact that Alabama can't stop him now that Nick Stavon is not there. Spoiler alert, Thomas Tastiano, you're going to throw three to four interceptions if you're lucky because you might be benched beforehand. And if you're not in the hospital after the game, I'd honestly be pretty. surprised because Alabama is going to destroy Florida State in week one. But we're moving on from that.

Let's talk about a new lawsuit here. You thought we were done with lawsuits, right? You know, the ACC making up with Florida State and Clemson. We're all done, you know, all peachy, all good. And then all of a sudden the other day, according to Ross Dellinger, is that how you say? Or is it Delinger? Delinger, yeah. Delinger.

Okay. So Wisconsin has filed a lawsuit against Miami for tampering and eventually poaching defensive back Xavier Lucas. If you recall, Lucas, he entered the transfer portal. But Wisconsin back in January or late December was like, no, you're not allowed to enter the transit portal. We're not going to submit your paperwork. And Lucas is saying, well, I'm unenrolling from the school, so you don't really have a choice. And there was lawsuits going back and forth there. The Big Ten is now backing Wisconsin on this lawsuit.

Kenton, what's your reaction to this? What is even the outcome desired for Wisconsin here? That's a great question. Do you expect him to be forced to come back and play for you? No. Because you don't, well, and here's the deal. So let's say you do, you win that lawsuit. you want financial compensation.

Yes. So now, so, and here's the question. What is the value of this player? And now does every school have to do that? Have we now created a different system where it's basically like a, you know, I'm not 100% familiar with this. So please don't yell at me in the comments if I'm wrong here. But like the European soccer system where it's like, oh, you got to pay a transfer fee.

I want to buy this guy onto my team from your team. So, you know, hey, I want a dairy mince up. And instead of paying him $4 million, he'll get $2 million and Tulane will get another $2 million. What does that now look like? And who's to do the evaluation or who's to do the valuation because the smaller school, or not even the smaller school, but in this situation, Wisconsin is a Big Ten school, the school that is losing the player will always want more. The school that is gaining the player will always want to pay the least.

So what even is the desired outcome here? Can I try to answer that for you? And, well, sure, sure. And here's the other part of that. What definitively is tempering is that, hey, you're, because I believe they said the reports are, don't know how fond of this is, so I don't want to put out there that I'm speculating those. His best friend plays for Miami.

Well, is it tempering of his best friend? Says, hey, man, we got a spot for you. We got a spot. We'd love to have you. Our secondary was trash last year. the coaches may not have said anything to him. His best friend may have just said, look at our defensive numbers. Look at what we would have done with Cam Ward if we would have had you on our team.

Come on down here and see what we can get done. So what is tempering? Is it directly a coach reaching out? And that's it? Do you have evidence that a coach reached out? What's, you know, those are all the questions I have here. But I would love to hear your answer to the first question of what do you expect a game on? So you're not going to get the player.

back if you're Wisconsin. That's just not going to happen. It's not realistic to then ask the or to then force the student to go back to the school because then that's just a whole another lawsuit. That's a whole other can of worms. You have to force a player back to their original team. Supposedly in the article, it mentioned how there was already a deal in place between Lucas and Wisconsin. And so if you're Wisconsin, here's what you're trying to gain from Miami. Most likely, by the way, this is probably going to get settling before it even hits it's not going to probably hit trial. Most likely this will just get settled,

just like most lawsuits do. But if you're Wisconsin, what you want is, okay, whatever you were going to pay Xavier Lucas, so let's say you were going to pay him, I don't know, I'm going to spitball here. Let's say you're going to pay him a million dollars. Well, you want Miami to pay you back for that. And then you would also be seeking additional compensation

because you broke the rules and you tampered. So that's a penalty on top of having to pay the school what you were going to originally pay Xavier Lucas, if that makes sense. So it's like a one's a, hey, you were going to pay him a million. So, you know, we'll give you a million back for taking, for having the player now on our team. We'll give you that. And then on top of it, here's an additional punishment fee because we broke the rules. That's how I, that's ultimately, I think what Wisconsin is trying to gain here. If that makes sense.

And I get you. I get you. My only question is how favorable are the courts going to be to, wait a minute, have you all paid him this money? And he, you know, left out or whatever the case may be. Well, it could also be what Miami was paying him right now. That's another thing that might get settled. So it's like, oh, like, yeah, we were willing to pay him this.

But then you went out and tampered with us. So what you're going to do now is you're going to pay us what you are paying Xavier Lucas directly and then you are going to pay us more money for it because you tampered. And so here's, okay, I can see that realm of possibility. I just think that this is, we're in uncharted waters here, right? I think it's a worth of this kind. I don't know if this is something like this ever happened. And that's exactly what I mean.

We're an uncharted water. So all of us are speculating. None of us know exactly what the outcome is going to be. I just am worried about the bigger ramifications of this because this isn't, about just this case. This is about going forward. Is there any need for the portal? Is there any need for if you're a no contact guy?

Can you just actually, I've unenrolled from this school. I've already talked to coaches. I've enrolled over there. As opposed to a transfer portal player who's like, oh yeah, I want all the schools reaching out to me possible. You know, my recruitment is back open. It's, and even beyond that, this, what is temporary? What evidence do you have to substantiate tempering is my biggest question for this?

Because if they say, hey, the Mario Cristobal and one of the team meetings said, we can't cover anybody. If you know anybody who can cover, call them up right now, right? Even if he said so facetiously, that's what I'm saying. Even if he said so facetiously, and then the players at those directions go and call their friends, hey, dude, we got, what is that? Or does it have to be Mario going to one player directly saying, hey, listen, go talk to your friend Jackson Hozier.

I heard that he can cover everything. They call it White Lightning and that boy's on everything. We need you to go talk to him right now. Is that separate? Or is it only the coaches directly? One of the coaches on the staff reaching out directly saying, hey, we know you're homesick. We know it's cold in Wisconsin.

They got them big old women up there. You know, you don't want to be in there. You want to come back to Miami. Come on back. Come on back. You know, what is the deal? What do they want in terms of, what do they want in terms of finding the exact parameters of tempering? Because I feel like right now the way that the rule is written, it's so vague outside of a coach directly contacting a player.

And if they have proof of that, easy, open and shut. But I don't think that Miami would be dumb enough. to do that. Now, I've been wrong about things like this in the past. People have been dumb enough, brazen enough, arrogant enough to say, I don't care. We're going to tell this player, come here, make more money, and win more ball games. What about it? I don't think that's what happened here. So I'm very intrigued to see how this case plays out. And if it affects the level of what teams have to pay when they play, when they poach a player from another team, and how the parameters of what is tampering are redefined or more thoroughly defined as a result of this case.

I think we can keep talking about this and how it impacts college sports in general. So that's what we're going to do next here on Locked on ACC. This is Locked on ACC. I'm Jackson Holeser. Of course, we're always joined by Kenton Gibbs here. We're going to continue this conversation about Wisconsin suing Miami. for tampering and eventually poaching defensive back Xavier Lucas. And now we can kind of get into the ramifications for everything here.

Honestly, I think the goal is going forward to kind of curb tampering as much as possible, which is hard to do because, again, what is tampering? I don't know. I mean, I think it has to be directly from a school official to, a player, but if you go through maybe a back channel, you know, you could find a way to unofficially tamper there. But Wisconsin, I think, is just sending a message to the rest of college sports. Like, enough. Enough with the tampering. Everyone probably does it. Actually, I think everyone does it in general. So we're going to send a message. We're going to actually do this lawsuit. We're going to

make Miami go through this as well. It's going to be an inconvenience for literally everyone. And we don't know if we're going to win or lose, but we do not care because we are going to send a message that enough is enough. It's, again, you got earlier this offseason, Dion Sanders, the head coach of Colorado is calling out Virginia football for tampering. Virginia football for tampering. You got Fran Brown, the head coach of Syracuse on a podcast talking about how Miami, not Miami, how Texas blatantly was tampering with Marad Watson when he entered the transfer portal and ultimately went to Texas. nobody has done anything about this.

So now Wisconsin is sitting here saying, Kenton, yeah, enough, we're done. Like, you're messing with us? Okay, we're going to actually do this lawsuit. It's going to be a burden on everyone. Nobody is going to want to deal with it in Miami, including, like, nobody's going to want to deal with this, including ourselves.

We don't want to deal with tampering either, but we do not care. So maybe this is something where, especially Miami pays a harsh penalty for it, maybe it curbs tampering just a little bit, going forward, it's kind of like speeding. You're not going to catch everyone. You're not going to catch everyone speeding.

It's just how it is. There's too many cars on the road. There's not enough police officers. You are not going to get everyone going 15 miles and a, like, it's just not going to happen. Right. But if you can get one or two people and people see it, it kind of acts as a deterrent. Okay, well, I know I can get caught. So I don't want to speed because I know I can get caught.

That's kind of how I view this. case and the eventual ramifications of it, especially if Miami has to pay a harsh penalty. Here's the thing. I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree that this could be a potential deterrent. The only problem is the risk versus the reward, right? You talk about the risk versus the reward of your analogy of speeding. I mean, realistically, unless you're on the highway, now I'm talking about 10, you aren't cutting that much time off your arriving to your destination by speeding. So it's not really worth it to speed down the street where you're going to run into a red line anyway. The deterrent or the risk versus reward of picking up a big time player,

I have been begging on my hands and knees. Please, NC State, get some edge rushing help. If they were to be found to tamper to get one of the better edges in America, it's worth it. It's worth it. It's worth it. It's worth it to get it. So I'm, I'm, I'm intrigued by the prospect of, like you said, it functioning as a turn, but let's be real here, right? It's just like when companies have to pay a fine for, you know, labor rights violations or anything like that. And the fine always ends up being much less than they saved committing those labor rights violations. Sure. I saved $2 million on payroll by not paying employees overtime.

and my penalty is a $500,000 fine, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. These schools may not want to pay the fine. They may not want to go to court. They may not want to hire a lawyer. But if I say hiring this lawyer wins me more games at my coaching this player and then thusly having to hire a lawyer and then having to pay out whatever on top of it, this player is such a difference maker.

He was the difference between us winning or losing one or two games, right? imagine a swing of one or two games in Miami season last year. Would you say it's worth it? They're in the playoff. Would you say it's worth it for Miami to pay $5 million for that? It's on the surface, it sounds like it's worth it. Unless the penalty is $15 million. Yeah, well.

That's what I'm saying. I think the penalty or whatever the settlement is is so important. Because if it's really harsh and they're like, Hey, we know you tampered. We have evidence of, I'm not saying this actually happened, but we have evidence that the head coach of Miami, Mario Cristobal, texted Xavier Lucas while he was with Wisconsin. Hey, come play for Miami.

We have it, the text messages, we have the voicemail, we have the phone recording, we have all of it. And so all of a sudden you're saying, hey, Miami, you know, we get it. You might have won one or two more games. But, you know, all that additional profit you might have got from the, was one or two games, you know, because you made the college football playoff and all that fun stuff and all that revenue you got. Yeah, all that's ours now because the penalty is so harsh where it doesn't make it worth it. That's what I'm saying. It's all about the penalty. Sure.

Yeah. If you in your analogy, oh, I, I saved $2 million. I didn't pay the guys overtime and then I only had to pay a 500K fine. Of course you're going to take that trade every single time. You just profit at a million a half. But if you're telling me that you're not going to profit anymore, in fact, you're going to lose money because of this lawsuit, And again, in theory, in theory, that works home. In theory, that works out. In theory, if putting a $15 million fine works out. How do you enforce a $15 million fine for one player?

That case is going to for sure go to the Supreme Court, going to go to appeal after appeal after appeal. And I highly doubt that in the current landscape that we have, that is the current landscape of public opinion about college sports It's already these players are greedy. They want too much. They're always asking and taken and da-da-da-da-da. How do you think colleges are then going to say,

well, actually, I know that these players want too much, but this player is worth $15 million because of the manner in which he was taken. Come on. Come on. The math just doesn't. It's not. I forgot the legal terminology for it, but there is a penalty and it could sometimes be even harsher for committing the crime itself or doing the wrongdoing.

It's like if you, let's say someone's responsible for you breaking your arm. Right. Right. And you sue them. Hey, you broke my arm. It's your fault. Right. You don't just go into that lawsuit saying, I just want the money back that I had to

pay medical bills and that's it. No, no, no, no. You go in there and you say, hey, you're going to pay me back all my medical bills. You are also going to pay me because of the mental stress that you caused me because I broke my arm. You are also going to pay a penalty because you actually broke my arm. You can't do that. That's not nice. That is illegal. So you are going to pay for that action itself. you're not just going to pay for my medical bills. You're going to pay for everything else that goes along with it. So that's, I think, Wisconsin's goal. It's not just, oh, you took Xavier Lucas and whatever you paid Xavier Lucas,

that's what we're going to give you. No, no, no, no, no. Whatever you profited off that, too, is ours. And then also, whatever, you know, the actual action itself is illegal. You can't do what you did. You're going to pay another amount of money for it. So that's how the math could get. to a point where it's so astronomical.

If you're Wisconsin, that's exactly what you're trying to do. And if you're Miami, you're just trying to drag this out as long as possible and say that whatever you're asking for is simply not worth it. We'll pay you for whatever for the player. Or if you can't provide evidence that we actually tampered, then you're out of luck. That's why I'm saying the penalty is really what ultimately comes down to it. Because if the penalty is so extremely harsh for this one player, maybe it could act as a deterrent.

But if the penalty isn't harsh, the penalty is like, eh, okay. So whatever we spent on Xavier Lucas, that's what we had to give the school. And it caused us to win one or two extra games. We made the college football playoff. Actually, it will make tampering a whole lot worse. It'll make it worse because then you'll see the penalty and be like,

that's not that bad. We can pay that penalty. And again, what even is tampering? What is tampering? Is it a coach directly reaching out? Is it the school directly reaching out? because if it's anything beyond that, at this point, you've done nothing but effectively make it so that coaches know, oh boy, me sending the text will cost me $50 million. However, me calling in a player that he knows.

Or you call a donor. And that's it. And that's it. The donor is not officially affiliated with the school. That donor is not. What do you mean, one-packed Niel? The owner of the car dealership next to the university is not affiliated with the university. So if that guy is sitting, you're saying, hey, we'll get you on a commercial here.

If you commit here and we'll give you $250,000 for appearing in this car dealership commercial, then like, what? Isn't this kind of what happened with Wright, with BYU and him going there? Something like that. I think it was Baylor and BYU. There was something like that where it was, I think, a donor or a business owner. basically tampered with him, but there's nothing directly with BYU and Rob Wright. It's someone unaffiliated that got him. And even if you call for someone to go transfer to NC State, that's not tampering.

And even if, even if the coach directly said it, right, even if Coach Doran called me and said, hey, I know that you're Detroit guy, I know you went to Kastak. the player X, Y, and Z is playing at school, A, B, and C. He'd call them up. That's your young boy. Call him up. Get him on down to NC State. And I do call him, is that temper?

Even if you could prove the direct linkage to like, Your and called me, I called the player. The player ends up here. Is that temper? Or is it no? Ken, it's just a former player in podcast. What about, where do we go? What about an agent?

Is going through an agent tampering? If a coach says, you know, we're not talking to the play. we're talking to the agent of the player. Does that qualify as tampering? And this is the conversation that Dono and I had before. And it's so sad that every time we talk temporary, we're going to end up back here. Now, for very obvious reasons,

for very obvious reasons, many people will say, Dono has an extra incentive that I may not to kind of make, to kind of obfuscate the conversation and make things very opaque and cloudy. Many people would say that. I personally happen to agree with Dono,

not just because he's my wonderful brother and baldness and the co-host of this show on a main basis, but it's also because if a law is written that widely or if a rule, rather, is written that widely to say, hey, a coach contacting a player is tempering. Well, now you've left the floor open for everybody. You've left the floor open for everybody's not a coach.

Oh, anybody directly affiliated with the university is tempering. I do not have any relationship with NC State in terms of directly right now in terms of NC State paying me. I love those folks. Love them. Coach Doran, love him. Thunder, love him. He's like a second father to me.

Annabelle, love her family. Great people. I love the Myers family. Great people. Plenty of folks there. Jimmy back there in the equipment room, smoke, all those guys. I love them. I don't have any direct connection to him.

Would it be illegal for me to call open player on their behalf? You see what I'm saying? So it's very loose. It's very vague. And in the world where if you're talking about from Wisconsin's side of this thing, because it could be NC State tomorrow that's having a player post, it could be Syracuse tomorrow is having a player post, it could be Miami tomorrow that's having a player post.

It could be any one of our school. If we are saying, hey, poaching is bad or tampering is bad, if we're saying tampering is bad, well, okay, I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that argument. But we have to more clearly define temperate. than leaving it wide open where like you said Jackson, I'm thinking of it from the standpoint of the different people who are reaching out on the, on the basis of the universe.

You bought in a whole other side of it with, I may not be able to reach out to the player. His mom is available on the white pages. No, I don't think you can do that. But that's what I'm saying. But even if you say agent, you can go to a family member. But Jackson, if you're saying agent, you're talking about somebody that's directly

working with this man in their business. I know, but it's fast. You know what? That's a great point. So at what point, where do we draw the line? That's why I think the rules need to come in and draw a defensive line. And, hey, teams cannot reach out to this, to this point, right? And the car dealership company, I mean, that owner, he's got no, he's got no, he's got

no juror. The NCAA has no jurisdiction on them. None. Zero. They got nothing on me either. I mean, it's not like I have a gobs of zillions of dollars to give away here for players to come to Syracuse. But if I did, right, who's saying that I can't call up a player saying, hey, if you come to Syracuse, I'll give you $2 million. I'll wire it to you.

Who can come after me? Is the NCAA? All you got to do. The player can't accept the money? All you got to do is make one appearance on Locked on Syracuse. and tweet about us once a week. Hey, everybody, come get your podcast. Come get your Syracuse information here.

If you do that, maybe $2 million. Unfortunately, I don't have $2 million. But if I did have $2 million lying around, you know, in my little corner, you know, a little little man cave, you know, it's just stacks of hundreds and everything like that. Maybe. But I'm not that rich yet. Maybe one day.

Maybe I'll create a company like Amazon and make hundreds of billions of dollars. But that's neither here nor there. I'm Jackson, Ulzer, host. to Locked on Syracuse, filling in for Alex Dono. He is still in Europe on vacation. We wish nothing but the best. Of course, we're always joined by Kenton Gibbs, host of Locked on Wolfpack and former NC State defensive tackle.

You can do us all favor. Hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, helps the channel grow, reach all ACC fans. You can also check us out, locked on Syracuse, Locked on Wolfpack, wherever you get your podcast. And coming up, actually, it's a whole week of season previews. So coming up next, we're going to speak. to the host of the locked on Clemson Tiger show. I'm going to preview Clemson, who is the favorite

to win the ACC in 2025. So thank you all so much for watching. Thank you all so much for listening. And we'll see you all again soon.