Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - BOMBSHELL: Trump's Executive Order SHAKES College Sports | Will NIL REFORM Change Everything?

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

NIL reform shakes up college sports landscape. Is an executive order on the horizon for the ACC and beyond?Kenton Gibbs and Alex Donno tackle the hot-button issue of Name, Image, and Likeness in college athletics. The duo dissects a potential game-changing executive order, exploring its impact on antitrust laws and state regulations. They dive into the fairness of athlete compensation, drawing from Gibbs' experiences as a former NC State defensive lineman. The conversation shifts to Phil Steele's surprising ACC rankings, with Pittsburgh and Florida State sparking debate.Tune in for passionate takes on athlete rights, insider perspectives on conference dynamics, and bold predictions for the upcoming ACC media days.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!GametimeToday's episode is brought to you by Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONCOLLEGE for $20 off your first purchase. Terms and conditions apply.Monarch MoneyTake control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONCOLLEGE at www.monarchmoney.com/lockedoncollege for 50% off your first year.FanDuelRight now, new customers can get ONE HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS when your first FIVE DOLLAR BET WINS! Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The president of the United States is now personally getting involved in NIL reform. Here we go. You are Locked-on ACCC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. He is Kenton Gibbs, former NC State defensive lineman and co-host of Locked-on Wolfpack. I am Alex Dono, host of Locked-on Caines, and thank you so much to the everydayers for making locked-on ACC. your first listen and your first watch.

We're available free wherever you get your podcast. We're free on YouTube. We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. This episode is brought to you by Monarch Money. Take control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code locked on college at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year. On this loaded episode, we will predict what are going to be the buzzing topics at ACC Media Days next week? SEC Big 12, they've given.

us some clues with their media days already in progress. Bill Steele magazine has both Pittsburgh and Florida State inside the top six in the ACC. Could it be true? Will they overachieve by some of those metrics? But Kenton, we got to talk about this executive order that Donald Trump is working on. He plans to sign this. And in fact, the news of the imminent signing of this executive order concerning name, image and likeness in college sports, the timing of it even seemed to surprise Greg Sanky.

at SEC Media Days. Like he's known this is something that the president is interested in, didn't seem ready for the fact that this could come down this week. So this executive order that the president plans on signing, according to Yahoo Sports.com, the draft seven pages long and titled, Saving College Sports in all caps, outlines directives from Trump to members of his cabinet to create policy related to various aspects of college athletics.

Those aspects primarily include directing the Attorney General and Federal Trade Commission to, one, provide college leaders with protection from antitrust law around the long-term availability of scholarships and opportunities for athletes. Number two, prevent unqualified and unscrupulous agents from representing athletes. And three, support uniformity by presumably preempting the varying name, image, and likeness state laws. Now, Kenton, there's some things in there that I actually think are a really good idea. I also have concerns about part of this, but I'll let you give your take. I want to start by saying this. This is a sports podcast.

This is a sports podcast. Dono and I have known each other for years now. We've done this show together for over a year now, right? I believe we're over a year at this point. Dono and I have never discussed politics even off of him. We have never had a discussion about, hey, who did you vote for? Who did you vote for? Hey, what's going on with, you know, your governor in Florida?

What's going on with your governor in North Carolina? We've never discussed that. So I want to make this clear. This is not coming from that space. And with that in mind, I'll start off with the things that I like about this. The getting out unscrupulous agents. I think that's important. How many players have we heard their stories,

especially players who were the first backs to get NIA, I were like, yeah, my agent. negotiated everything and I heard a number, I never saw anything near that. And then I still had to pay taxes on what I actually got because the agent was robbing me blind in this. I think that it's important to have oversight on those types of things. And to, you know, I understand that that is more red tape, which would eliminate some smaller agents, but I would just say in that situation, find a way to kind of get in that situation. And if you can't, maybe you've got to work in a more junior capacity until you get to where you want to be.

And I like the idea on its face of uniformity in some regard, in some regard, right? It sounds good until you get to any practical measure of it. Now, here's the flip side of this. I don't care who the president is. I don't care if it was Obama, if it was Reagan, if it was Jimmy Carter, if it was Abraham, Lincoln. I don't care who it. Saying, hey, we are looking at, you know, potentially cutting this or potentially having situations where it will have stricter guidelines for what qualifies as.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is what Trump is saying. I'm saying the potential is there when you look at the words uniformity and what's happening in that regard. Because with all the respect, Marshall football will never be able to offer somebody what Bryce Underwood got offered by Michigan. That's just the reality, okay? With all due respect,

the New Mexico State Aggies will never be able to offer what Carson Beck is getting at Miami. They just won't. It'll never be there for them. So what am I saying by saying this? I think that this has potential to do serious harm,

and I find it extremely interesting how the players are always the ones that are chastised and criticism. as selfish. How the players are chastised and criticized of the ones ruining the sport. America's favorite coach now that he's retired. Nick Saban said he got out because all of these players were asking, what can I get?

What can I get it? For those of you who don't know, I tweeted about this, but if you don't follow me on Twitter, let's rehash it on air. Nick Saban had a clause in his contract that if the top five, if the pay of the top five coaches in America, or the top three in the SEC, whichever is higher,

if that gap beyond him, it triggered instant negotiation to get him back there. To get him to either the top three of the SEC or top five in the country. Did anybody say he was selfish? Did anybody say he's just looking out for him? He's got to take care of Ms. Terry.

I acknowledge that. I take care. I see that. I respect them. Just the same way Dono and I got to take care of our families. I see it. I respect it. Why are we denying these young men that opportunity?

Why are we even looking at anything that could potentially rip that away from the young men and women who have become masters at their craft? With all due respect, Dono and I, we both play football at a decently high level. But let me tell you something, if Dono and I were to play basketball one-on-one and try to get all the sponsors we could get to do it, Rocket Money wouldn't want the sponsor. us, Monarch money wouldn't want to sponsor us. You know, game time wouldn't want to. Nobody would want to see us play basketball because we haven't put in the sweat equity to get good to great at it. These young men and women have done so.

And now we're talking about fairness. Life ain't fair. Fair is a place where you go to eat bad foods that will kill you and get on rides that would put up in two hours that might kill you. That's what fair is. Everything else in life, the Yankees spend more. They got more championships. everybody. Dodger spin more. They got more championships

and everybody. Even in football, you see, with everything the Bengals got going on, they keep being cheap skates, it's going to keep them from winning championships. It is patently ridiculous to even be sitting here and having a conversation about

potentially slashing. And again, I want to make clear, I'm not saying that Trump said he was slashing NIL. I'm not saying that he said that. I'm saying that when I see the word fairness, that is oftentimes a dog whistle, for something being cut or things being capped in a very serious way, which nobody's ever capped coaches paid,

and then the highest paid state employee, what, 48 to 50 states in America? So I'm done with it there. I'm going to let you take it down on. But I just think it's crazy to me how we want to talk fairness with the players, but nobody's talking fairness when Kirby Smart contracts is up. Well, and some of what you're talking about, like it's not even unique to this executive order

because they're trying to do a lot of this already with the House settlement and with the College Sports Commission. And, you know, despite the fact that college athletes, and they're not all created equal, right, your star quarterback is a lot more marketable than the captain of your golf team. Like, life isn't fair. That's just the way it is. But you're trying to tell me that athletes who are primarily responsible for generating billions of dollars for their universities, for TV networks, that you essentially want to treat them like children, like, oh, no, you can't make this much, right? when we don't hold the rest of society to that standard. I mean, you know, Kenton, you used us as an example playing, you know, one-on-one basketball,

which nobody would want to pay for. But, you know, you and I now, we create content for a living. And if, you know, my phone starts ringing and, you know, Jiffy Loob wants to pay me, you know, six figures to read their ads and then suddenly, you know, a committee or a congressman comes out, says, no, no, no, hold on. I don't think you're worth more than, you know, $500, $600 to read that ad. It's like, oh, where did this come from?

Why are you doing that? So my fear here would be over-regulation. Like whether that over-regulation, whether it's coming from the president of the United States, whether it's coming from Congress or it's coming from this House versus NCAA settlement where they're scrutinizing any NIL deal over $600 bucks. I understand the intention. Like the intention would be we want to try and cut out, you know, these sneaky, backdoor, unscrupulous people that just want to do pay for play disguised as NIL.

Like I get it. You're trying to cut that out. But then you're also, you're weaponizing those good intentions to, you know, to try to create a different sort of playing field that certain schools may advantage, may take an advantage from an others not. So that would be, that would be my issue. And I think you and I are very much on the same page on that, that I get it. Like there are some bad actors who, you know, basically embezzle their money.

It's pay for play disguises something else. I understand that. But there also is legitimate marketing power and money being created by these athletes. And I think we need to respect that. Like I really view them as professionals, but the system does not want to view them that way. But I do want to get more into because this is not all bad here. Because I think that there are there are some areas where NIL, we can do it a little bit better. And I think we all agree, you know, again, this is not a political discussion.

So it's a college football discussion, a college sports discussion, because, you know, when NIL first became a thing, the NCAA wasn't ready for it. They were caught with their pants down. So is there anything good that can come from this? You want to keep it locked right here. We're only getting started on this brand new episode of Locked on ACC. You ever wish managing your money felt easier? With Monarch money, it can.

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We're available free wherever you get your podcast. And for your next listen, make sure you check out our other shows. Kenton Gibbs and Grayson Boone do an awesome job on Locked on Wolfpack covering all things NC State. I cover all things Miami at Locked on Cains. And so, all right. So Kenton, we gave you the bullet points of what this executive order wants to accomplish. I think we can agree preventing unqualified and unscrupulous agents from representing

athletes. That's a good thing. That's well-intentioned. And then also the one that peaked my interest is supporting uniformity by presumably preempting the varying name, image, and likeness state laws. I do think, even though, like, I'm a proponent of, you know, different states have different priorities. It's why, you know, we're a nation of 50 states. But I do think in the case of NIL, when Kenton, there are certain states, and I'm sure that there are others that I'm leaving out, but like Missouri and Tennessee, for example, have very athlete-friendly NIL laws, which I think is good,

but then other states not so much. So that, you know, when you have, you know, from what, 48 different states at least, you know, big-time college football programs, all have different NIL laws. I do think in this case, we could benefit from some uniformity, that if the laws in Tennessee and Florida were the same as the laws

in Illinois and California, that that would create a level playing field for different universities to operate with their NIL. So I do think uniformity in that case is a good thing. And this is one of the, we could honestly spend an entire episode getting into this thing because there's a lot of meat on the bar in terms of what was written and the hypothetical responses to this. But I must admit, the idea that we are creating uniformity in terms of the laws across states, I like that.

I absolutely like that. I enjoy the idea that everybody is going to have the same, the same kind of restrictions and boundaries in theory in terms of like, hey, we're not placing any restrictions. If there are none in Texas, they're going to be none in Georgia. They're going to be none in North Carolina. They're going to be none in South Carolina.

They're going to be none in Louisville. I know Louisville is a city, not Kentucky, but you get the point. All of these different municipalities and places where the ACC resides, I want them all to have the same rules and laws as much as possible, right? Obviously, we know we can't take New York's tax rate down to whatever it is in Louisville, right? Like with Syracuse and Louisville would not be equal in that way. Everything else, I want that to be equal. Obviously, we know the value of a degree from Stanford is slightly different than some of the other schools in the ACC.

No disrespect to those schools. Stanford is a whole other level. They're talking a different ballgame there. So in certain ways, you cannot have fairness, but in the ways that you can, in the ways of clearing the way to say, hey, states, get your hands off this NIL stuff. I absolutely love that. I absolutely love that. And I think it'd be doing a disservice to pretend like there are only bad things out of this safe college sports proposal or out of this conversation. Because there aren't.

There aren't. And that's why I said, this is not a political conversation. This is a college football conversation. It's a nuanced conversation. Because the idea that one state has strict restrictions around it, and one state senator is saying, well, if they're going to be, if we're going to pay them like professionals, tax them like professionals. And if they're going to, you know, if that's going to happen,

let that happen for all the states or none of the states. Let it be in a situation where down in Miami, if a player signs a $4 million NIL there, it's the exact same, or at least as much as you can get it to be, if they signed it in Raleigh or Chapel Hill where the Dirty Foot Club resides or Durham where Dup was, you know, it should be the same thing. Yeah, I mean, and I think you and I are thinking on this on a similar level where we we don't want them to be like intentionally stifling like how much money athletes can make.

Like I don't want the intention of this to be like, well, you know what? Why should this guy be getting a seven figure deal? We have to put like a cap on all. like and and I don't know our perspective might be different i mean your perspective is obvious because you know you played college football uh unfortunately you were like just before the nil era uh so you're born a few years too early i guess but you you certainly sympathize with the athletes for that reason you know i i certainly did not play sports at that level but i do talk with a lot of athletes and i kind of see their perspective on it but i i don't know i think we may be mavericks on this one kenton

because a lot of the dialogue and, you know, every time I'm wearing my Miami gear all over the place. So I always get into college sports conversations. People see me on the street. They want to talk ball with me. And I just hear a lot of people like, oh, these guys, these players are all about the money now. The money is ruining college sports. So I feel like our opinion on this might be unpopular. And a lot of folks out there for good or for bad are like, we really need and we need an executive order like this.

or we need the house settlement to crack down because it's ridiculous that these guys are, you know, 17, 18 years old getting paid millions of dollars. I feel like a lot of people are anti that. I think you and I are a little bit more pro the whole opportunity for them to make money. If somebody feels like it's worth paying these guys seven figures, who am I to say don't do it? I don't like using anecdotal evidence because I don't think that that, you know, I think the data and all that is what we should be going with. However, the data by and large is something that I have not looked into, but I will use my personal story.

My mother had all four of her children by my father, her ex-husband. Okay. When they split, it became a one-income household. When my mother got sick when I was younger, had blood clots. We took a trip back to Alabama when she had blood clots. I had to step up and functionally become the man in the house at a very, very young age. I mean prepubescent. I mean not even close to puberty. Okay. Now with that being said, I am speaking not only from the standpoint of a student athlete, but a student athlete who grew up

in a 48228 area or zip code, rather. For those of you who don't know anything about 4828, it's not one of the nicer parts of Detroit. There's a McDonald's that's affectionately known as the murder mac that's in 48228. I'm going to let you speculate on why. why they call it that. Okay. Now, I say this to say, kids like me work, grinded, earn their way into this ballgame. These kids weren't gifted scholarships. Miami did not look at Carson Beck and say, you know what?

You're so handsome. And if one of the cabinet of twins thinks that you're handsome enough to be her boyfriend, you're handsome enough to be our quarterback. We're going to give you $4 million. No. He studied film. He worked out. He lifted.

He ate. He was blessed with the God-given genetics to spin the ball a certain way that made Cristoball and companies say, we want to get him taken care of it. It made the booster say, whatever the number is, we'll pay it to him to take care of him. Isaac Brown, again, I don't know what socioeconomic status these kids are from. But I'm just saying, from a guy like me, and I know that there are more, because I know I was even eligible for pilgrim. And there were guys who got full pen that I lived with at NC State.

So think about the dire straits that they were from if a house where a 10-year-old has to step up and be the man in the house is not fully qualified. Think about the dire straits they were from. And you're telling me that they didn't earn that money? I could give a rat's ass if our opinion is the Maverick opinion. And I'm sorry, David Locker, if you got to find me for that, find me. I don't care. But the reality is this.

I will fight and die for these kids to get their money because they've earned it. They've earned it. And you are taking away the ability for these young men to help feed their families because of what? NC State is not a school that's in that national tier in terms of NIL. And I'll still fight for them to get their money. I'll still fight for Kevin Concepciona had a right to go down to Texas and get paid whatever he's getting paid. I'll still fight for the right of MJ Morris to leave and go wherever he wanted to go and get paid what he was paid. because it's not about NC State.

It's not about Kenton. It's about what these young men have earned. What does the market dictate that they get? This is America, the land of opportunity. Is it capitalism or is it not? Are we saying that what your skills earn you, you get paid? Or do we not believe that anymore? Because if we don't, that we need to adjust a lot more than NIL around here.

Yeah. I mean, I couldn't possibly add a word to that. That was well said. and I hope that your experience that you shared with folks out there, it makes people think if they do have a different perspective on it. When we come back, Phil Steele, Preview Magazine, has some interesting rankings inside the ACC Plus. Kenton and I and other hosts on the network,

we're going to be out at ACC Media Days in Charlotte in a few weeks. What do we think the buzzing topics are going to be out there? You want to keep it locked right here? We're not done yet on this brand new episode of Locked on ACC. Thank you for making us your first listen. for your next listen, check out the portal. Our very good friend Brian Smith does an incredible job breaking down recruiting. It's a busy time of year for that, folks.

July, it's recruiting season. He breaks down NIL. I'm sure he has some takes on what we were just talking about. And he breaks down the transfer portal. It's the portal podcast, part of the lockdown network, available free, wherever you get your pods and available free on YouTube. All right. So I've been going through Kenton all of the preseason material, which is,

It's a yearly ritual for me in July. Like what is Lindy's saying, pick six, athelon sports. Phil Steele has been a personal favorite of mine for many years. So here are Phil Steele's ACC rankings. Not too surprisingly, he's got Clemson at the top of the conference, Miami number two. That's the way most of these things have been going. He's got SMU number three, Louisville fourth. And then rounding out the top six, he's got Pittsburgh.

course, you had the Great Disappearing Act last year. They started out 6 and 0. They finished 6 and 7. So which pit are you going to get? And then he's got Florida State at number 6. Florida State coming. Got a lot of talent on that roster. They come off a 2 in 10 season, though.

How much can Norville turn it around? So I would say in that top 6, folks would fairly question Pittsburgh at number 5, Florida State number 6. Did Steele get it right? I'm confused on where's the law for Georgia Tech? With all due respect, they are seven. They're seven. Here's the deal, right?

I get that they're right behind those two. I don't think there's a world where I can put Florida State after what they did last year in front of Georgia Tech. You talk about the difference between those two teams. It's cohesion. It's returning talent. It's a coach that with all due respect to Norville, a coach that has shown a propensity to have his players over-prepared. I mean, those guys from Georgia Tech, but you can tell us one of those brainy at schools because it looks like they know we're all. offenses are going before they know where they want to go.

I am struggling to come up with Florida State's reason for being this high. I mean, it just feels a little aggressive. Pit on the other hand, I can see it. I can see it. I'm not saying I agree. I'm just saying I can see. Eli Holstein is a baller, is a baller's baller. I'd be surprised if he were not viewed as a top seven, eight quarterback at worst,

coming out of this season. I look at Pitt season last year, and it got derailed by Eli getting hurt. The lineback and core over there. I don't know what black magic Narduzi does in linebacker rooms, wherever he goes. Sharks.

It's something. It's something. Everywhere he goes, the linebacker, they're going to have these fantastical stats, and they're going to be freaks of nature. He's got another crew that fits that mold well with multiple guys that are expected to be all

ACC, if not all American, in terms of Louis and company in that lineback course. So I really could see them being everything that they're supposed to be. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that they've got one of the best all purpose backs in the nation as well. So they've got guys everywhere that you look at it. You say, how did they lose seven straight last year? How did that happen? By the way, I know the Pitt fans are yelling at me. I said it wrong, Kenton. They lost six straight. So they started 7 and 0. So they went 7 and 6 last year. I got my 6 and my 7 mixed up from 7 and 0 to 7 and 6 was still similar, but I wanted to get that right. Ooh, what game different? But you know what, though, again, it is, it is a moment where you kind of look back at that and you say, how could that have

gone so wrong so late in that season? And again, I really do think it was an effect of Eli getting hurt because I think that team was on pace to do some special things before the injury happened. And they never quite got back on track from there. So, you know, I could see Pitt. FSU, I don't know. Maybe I'm blind. Maybe, maybe, you know, I've got on too thick of shades here. But I truly think that FSU in your top six, listen,

James Winston ain't walking through that door, okay? Yeah. He's not what, Jalen Ramsey, walking through that door. Kelvin Benjamin, before he discovered, Bojangles, ain't walking through that door, all right? It's just not. I mean, it's certain things have to go right for them, like very right for them because they're, you know, they're doing something pretty revolutionary and, you know, Norville handing the keys to the offense over to Gus Malzahn, who obviously has been a very capable coach for a long time, you know, has he, is he a little over the hill.

I mean, he decided, I guess, head coaching wasn't for him anymore. So he wanted to coach Florida State's offense. And obviously, Tommy Castellanos, who, you know, he talks a big game before the. the season starts. We know that. But, you know, this is someone who has, he was recruited to play in a Gus Malzahn offense and, you know, starting his career at UCF. So the two of them have a connection and Malzahn sees him as a fit. So a lot of Florida state success or lack thereof is going to go in that direction. And then, of course, as Brian Smith, who's also the host of Lockdown Seminoles, constantly tells you and me, he's concerned about Florida state's offensive line, that they don't have a lot of depth. So that's, that's a unit that really needs to step up.

but they've got a lot of talent on that football team. If you go through, you know, blue chip ratio and all that, they've got one of the better blue chip ratios in the conference. Speaking of the conference, on Tuesday, ACC media days will start. That includes the commissioner forum. Jim Phillips will give his, you know, long talk and question and answer on Tuesday morning. You know, we've seen Kenton the past, you know, a couple weeks, your SEC media days have been going on.

The SEC is obviously the big one that everyone pays attention to. and Big 12 has been going on. You know, based on a lot of the big picture topics in college football that have been discussed, what do you think are going to be the buzz topics with Jim Phillips next week? In fact, knowing you, you probably already have a couple of questions written down for Philip. Oh, you already know, Donno. You already know. I've been plotting on this thing for a while.

But I think the biggest hot button issues are going to be, how is he planning on keeping the band together? How is he planning on keeping the band competitive? because those are, although they're going to be redundantly asked, and although people are going to find a thousand different ways to ask those questions, with Jim Phillips, that's your whole job. And it's not looking like normally we don't ask those questions because the answers are already there.

Normally we're asking, oh, what will it take to get Notre Dame in the conference, which we know it's not happening. They're not coming. It'll take another pandemic. Other than that, they're not coming back, right? We know that. But it's better that way when we're asking those boring questions because it means everything is boring and steady. Right now, people are asking the exciting questions because there's too much unpredictability and instability.

There are multiple lawsuits that have been settled. And there are multiple teams that are looking out on the horizon and say, what's all that movement over there, SEC? What's all that TV deal movement over there, big team? What's all got going on? Talk to me. You know, so there's rightfully going to be talks about that. And obviously with NIL and the executive order, I mean, listen, hate them, love them, however you feel about them, the executive branch right now is a click machine. Okay.

You say something about them in any regard, it's going to generate clicks, it's going to generate eyeballs to your website and all that. So, you know, with the executive order coming down right before ACC media days and after everybody else's media day, congratulations, Jeff Phillips. You're going to be the man at all. 100%. I mean, when it comes to the executive order clicks, it's like the locked on big 12 of politics. That's where all the clicks happen, right? Hey, no, you ain't wrong. He's our personal Drake told. He is. All right.

Well, we appreciate everyone making Lockdown ACC your first listen. And I think the shows next week are going to be unique because a handful of us will be out at media days. Me, Kenton, our guy, JJ from Lockdown, Blue Devils will be out there. I think there's going to be a couple of other ACC hosts making some cameos. And by the way, Kenton, we're already planning a big next Friday once we're all back from Media Days. We're going to do an episode with Locked on SMU, which is exciting because I felt last year, man, we needed an SMU show, right? But we got one now. So Lockdown SMU is going to join us for a crossover, I think a week from today next Friday.

So we'll be talking to you guys before ACCC Media Days on Monday and then during. and afterwards. So we'll talk to you later on another episode of Lockdown ACC. We are part of the awesome lockdown podcast network. Your team every day.