Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - Can Jim Phillips and Pete Bevacqua REPAIR the ACC-Notre Dame Fallout After Last Year’s Drama?

Starting point is 00:00:00 has been angry at the ACC, so angry that there have been reports about that relationship ending in the near future. But if you believe what they're saying now, reconciliation is happening. You are Locked on ACC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Shout out to the Everydayers and thank you so much for making locked on ACC your first listen. We're available. free wherever you get your podcast. We're free on YouTube. We're part of the number one Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. He is Kenton Gibbs, former NC State Defense of Limit and co-host of Lockdown Wolfpack. I'm Alex Dono, host of Lockdown Cainz.

Starting point is 00:00:51 Today's episode is brought to you by Fanduel. It's the last call for football on Fanduel. If you're a new customer bet, just $5 and get $200 in bonus bets if you win. On this episode, a great interview this week from Jim Phillips, who sat down with Brett McMurphy from On 3. We'll discuss conference realignment. Could the ACC be adding more in the near future? We'll talk about revenue and tiebreakers. They are going to change the tiebreakers after Duke almost killed the conference last year.

Starting point is 00:01:22 Duke fans already hate me, so I can say whatever I want to at this point. And we'll talk ACC versus Notre Dame. Now, Kenton, first and foremost, how do you feel? feel about the relationship that Notre Dame has with the ACC. They're a full member of everything but football, which is the big one. Notre Dame was really angry about the ACC, publicly promoting Miami's win over Notre Dame as a means to get Miami into the college football playoff. Notre Dame took that very personally. I mean, the relationship that they have with one another, who needs the other side more and why? You know, from what I've heard, Notre Dame has a really good

Starting point is 00:02:02 School of Architecture. So that means they've got a lot of alums who are great at building things. So I need their alumni base to get together, build a damn bridge, and get over it. Get over it. You want to know why, Donno? Why?

Starting point is 00:02:18 Jalen Rose once said, you're only as faithful as your options. He said that in front of his fiance and soon-to-be wife, then ex-wife, Molly Carrow. Now, why is that important, Dono? This man took a risk of saying, hey, people are only going to be as good to you, as faithful to you, as all those things to you, as they're obligated to be by their options.

Starting point is 00:02:41 And this partnership between Notre Dame and the ACC is very much so that. Because as I've stated on this show, which Notre Dame fans have been upset with me, they've said everything about me, oh, we beat your team by 50, oh, y'all are irrelevant, and yet nobody's come back with a answer to one single. question would the SEC or the Big 10 allow for the same type of situation where you are a member in everything except the sport that brings in the real money? No. So then you look over at the Big 12 and you say, well, it's basically equivalent and your mark is reaming you for the things that you're doing to the ACC more intensely than Jim Phillips is. So what I look at here,

Starting point is 00:03:32 as I say, if I'm Joe Phillips, where are you going to go? Where are you going to go? Nobody's going out of their way to disrespect you, to undermine you, to, you know, treat you in an unfair manner. So with that being said, if me advocating for a full member upsets you, you know what you can do, you got two options. Become a full member, get your tail on somewhere. Find a new conference for your basketball team. Find a new conference for your baseball team. Find a new conference for all these other teams that you got every other team.

Starting point is 00:04:02 team and every other sport, find a new home for them. Because clearly the ACC ain't made. But you know, that's just how I feel about the partnership as it stands right now. Yeah. And, you know, it's not to say the ACC doesn't get anything out of it. They obviously do because, you know, Notre Dame, they play five ACC opponents a year in a scheduling agreement. And it boosts the TV rating. It boosts the attendance when Notre Dame plays road games. The ACC does benefit from that relationship. I just, I'm with you. I don't think the ACC. benefits actually as much as Notre Dame does by being able to have their cake and eat it too by maintaining their independence, which like you said, the other big time and bigger conferences

Starting point is 00:04:43 like the SEC and Big Ten, I don't think would be willing to do that for them. In fact, even the Big 12 wouldn't be willing to do for them what the ACC does for them, right? And also, Kenton, the issue that Notre Dame just had in not getting into the playoffs has actually been solved for them moving forward, right? Because the new college football playoff format, and a lot of folks are unhappy about this, as long as Notre Dame is ranked in the top 12, which means even if they're number 11 or number 12,

Starting point is 00:05:14 which normally they wouldn't be able to get into the playoff at 11 or 12 because they don't have a conference to win. So you get auto bids that jump in front of you. But now Notre Dame is guaranteed to get into the playoff as long as they finish in the top 12. So they would essentially jump the number 10 for an at-large and bounce the number 10 out of it if Notre Dame's ranked 11 or 12. So this to me, Kenton, you know, all that happened with the ACCPR and social media team lobbying for Miami, that wouldn't matter moving forward because in that same situation next year, Notre Dame would get in and Miami wouldn't.

Starting point is 00:05:51 So that issue has been solved for them. This and not only that, Dono, not only that, Notre Dame football ought to be ashamed of themselves. Ought to be ashamed of themselves, Dono. Because on top of what we already know to be the case for the future, I want you, I'm going to read off this list of opponents. And you tell me if you see two losses in here, Wisconsin, and these are teams playing Notre Dame, Wisconsin. No. Rice. No.

Starting point is 00:06:23 Michigan State? No. Purdue. No. North Carolina. No. Stanford. No.

Starting point is 00:06:32 BYU? Maybe, probably not. Navy? No. Miami. I mean, I'd like to think that's a loss, but, you know. Okay. Boston College.

Starting point is 00:06:47 No. SMU. Syracuse. No, sir. That's 11 and 1, 12 and 0. That's an 11-1 or 12-0 season. And they're in the playoff. They're already in the playoff.

Starting point is 00:07:01 Just put them in. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You ought to go out there and earn it just like everybody else. Just like everybody else. And you can't make the argument of, well, we were penalized for not being in a conference. Because if we were conference champions or if we went to a conference championship, it would be better. No, the Miami team that got picked in over you.

Starting point is 00:07:22 Donno, historically, what was the joke that Duke for? feds were saying to Miami feds all offseason. Many Diaz had a what before Mario Cristobal? A conference championship. And Miami got so mad at those jokes. They went and stole their quarterback and top receiver. Huh. So it appears to me that you got left out for a team.

Starting point is 00:07:42 That beat you head to head that also did not play in or win a conference championship. And so now we have to bend the rules for just you, by the way. There is no such exemption for Miami. Is there? If Miami is in the top 12, is there all to be? No. What about Clemson? Clemson?

Starting point is 00:08:03 What about Bama? I know Bama. You got Bear Bryant, you got Nick Saving, you got the history, the fedoras. What about Bama? No. Michigan, the winning against team in all of college football history, they've got that exemption, right? They sure don't. The foil to Michigan, the better team as of late, Ohio State.

Starting point is 00:08:20 They've got to have it. Nope. Dan Lending over in Oregon, though, guys. It's not Phil Knight and all that Nike, money don't got it? Not even Phil Knight can make that happen. So this is what I mean by this is embarrassing. This is embarrassing. I as a team would not want this.

Starting point is 00:08:34 I as a team would not want to be propelled in over other teams who are more deserving simply because I was in proximity. I'm sorry. That's just not. I'm not one of those guys. And maybe it's because I wasn't born on third base. Maybe it's because, you know, I've had help for my family.

Starting point is 00:08:52 So I'm never going to be the guy to say, oh, I've done everything by myself. had help in getting on this show. Obviously, Dono, you being my new co-house has been an exponential help to this show. So far being for me to say, everything I've done in my life has been about the sweat of my brow. But this type of, you know, just, oh, I'm going to give this to you just because at the expense of others, I would be embarrassed as a man to say, oh, I took this from these other teams

Starting point is 00:09:18 that I may not have deserved to be in over. Well, and that clause guarantees they're never going to fully join a conference because now, like, they don't really even have the pressure of like needing to do that now. But when we come back, I want to share the words of Jim Phillips to Brett McMurphy of On 3 on the supposed reconciliation. I guess maybe we can stop talking about Notre Dame's going to leave the ACC. You want to keep it locked right here. We're only getting started on this brand new episode of Locked on ACC. I'm Glea Butler, host of lockdown women's basketball. And this is Mazda's women's basketball snapshot, celebrating the work no highlight reel can ever capture. Number one ranked Yukon dominated Tennessee, 96 to 66, turning a halftime tie into a historic win and avenging last season's loss by delivering the largest margin in the rivalries history.

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Starting point is 00:11:33 And if you go to Lockedonpodcast.com slash Everydayer, you can check out all the shows you love and become an everydayer of multiple shows with the Everydayer Club. All right, so this is what, and this was a really good interview, and Jim Phillips touched on a lot of different topics, including the revenue model, tiebreakers, which are going to change, right? And conference realignment.

Starting point is 00:11:56 But on the Notre Dame issue, Jim Phillips said, we're in a really good place with Notre Dame, and reconciliation is something that's important in my life and in others. And you're not always going to see eye to eye on every issue with everyone. I really feel we handled it in a very professional and respectful manner. Pete Bavacua and I got together, Bavacua's the Notre Dame AD. We talked quite a bit. We got together a week after the public discourse and had a great,

Starting point is 00:12:22 conversation. Since then, I've seen Pete and Notre Dame President, Father Bob Dowd, and talked with them. It makes a relationship stronger to me when you go through some difficult periods. We all learned quite a bit. I feel really good about it. Notre Dame is a really important member of the ACC, and Notre Dame enjoys being in the ACC and values that tremendously. I know the ACC values it tremendously, Notre Dame being a part of the league, and that has not changed one iota. So, I mean, my expectation, Kenton, is you basically said it. Notre Dame has no real alternative of a place to go where they can maintain their independent football status. So I definitely think they're going to work this out. And I also

Starting point is 00:13:03 think my prediction, Kenton, and we'll see if we're ever in this situation again, but if you've got another, you know, playoff campaign, Notre Dame versus, you know, Miami, Clemson, whoever, I don't think the ACC is going to be tweeting like they did last year. I can definitely, I can definitely imagine the ACC kind of laying. down and sort of letting Notre Dame have their way on that one. That's how I see this resolving. Soft. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:30 That's not reconciliation. That's not reconciliation. I disagree with the thought that that is reconciliation. Reconciliation is making amends for a wrong that was done. Making amends for some type of, you know, incongruence and goals or some type of alignment that two partners had. Here's the thing. You are a partial part.

Starting point is 00:13:52 partner, partial. Partial. I am Donald's partner on this show. His wife is his partner in life. If he prioritized her over me and I'm sitting here, I can't believe it. The woman that pushed on a child for you, you're prioritizing over me.

Starting point is 00:14:13 We have a show together. Why would you ever? This is song. This is song. And I get it. Jim Phillips is doing all he can to keep. keep the water steady. Because we saw last time, Jim Phillips and the ACC are so adverse to any type of conflict, so averse to anything that can end up in the courtroom, so adverse to anything

Starting point is 00:14:34 that rocks the boat in a conference that is currently on shaky ground to begin with. You're doing anything to keep the band together. But I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine who it was a similar thing of reconciliation of whether or not they were going to fix something in a relationship that they've done damage it and all that. And the person that they were trying to reconcile with did something immeasurably hurtful to them. And their excuse was when you hurt me first and I said, that's not, you can't start a relationship from that standpoint.

Starting point is 00:15:03 You can't continue a relationship from that standpoint. Either we are going to have a conversation and be real people about this, be real adults and say, listen, our interests will not always align. We are partners. However, we are not full partners. If you were a full partner, we would have argued for both of you to get in over Alabama. That would have been what we did. Right. Yeah. But you know what happens when you're a partial partner? Sometimes in playing musical chairs, I have no incentive to make sure you get a chair.

Starting point is 00:15:32 I have an incentive to pick up the chair and give it to my boy who I'm wanting to bet on here. So ultimately, you know, the reconciliation and all that, I would hope that it doesn't end in the way that you're, that you're talking about now. You're probably right. That's just my guess, but you know, I've been right on these things before. And that's the thing. You're probably right. But that's embarrassingly soft by the ACC as well, because me personally, if I were the commissioner, I'd say straight up and down, hey, we did our best to do right by you. If doing our best right by our full partners upsets partial partners, I'm sorry, that's what's going to happen every time. That is just the reality of what this looks like. So, you know, another issue that made the ACC look not so good,

Starting point is 00:16:15 which they're looking at fixing it now, were the football conference. tiebreakers. Now, I know, of course, it was the ACC that this happened to because who else, right? However, I will say that the other power conferences apparently have the same tiebreaker criteria. So theoretically, this could have happened to anyone. It just, it happened to the ACC where your conference champion ended up, you know, losing five games, but still making it to the conference championship game and they don't get selected for the playoff. So why were they in the conference championship game? because you had to go seven tiebreakers deep, and they edged out the other four teams that they were tied with

Starting point is 00:16:56 based on the winning percentage of conference opponents. Again, not the teams you beat, but against conference opponents because the two highest winning percentages were two teams that beat you. So Duke created a fiasco, but really the ACC created the fiasco with their conference tiebreakers, and Jim Phillips was asked if they're going to change those. And he said, certainly, we commisive. that what happened this year could have happened to anybody,

Starting point is 00:17:24 and it wasn't from a lack of effort. We had spent quite a bit of time on the tiebreaker format with our ADs and head football coaches, but who would have ever thought we would go to the seventh tiebreaker with five teams tied at six and two? You live and learn, and you're better for it. Now, I think you and I both agree. The whole whoever thought we would have gotten to the seventh tiebreaker

Starting point is 00:17:44 is a ridiculous thing to say. They've said that multiple times. But then the other part of this, Kenton, this tiebreaker thing has been spoken about a couple of times since the end of the season. They haven't mentioned how they're actually going to fix it. You know, the suspicions out there are there could be a CFP rankings integration. I know you don't like that, but it's probably going to happen some speculation that there could be adjusted win percentages. Actually, there needs to be now because some teams are playing eight conference games. Some teams are playing at nine.

Starting point is 00:18:17 But I think the one that's going to become a deciding factor is, what's your college football playoff ranking? And if you're tied with multiple teams, you get the edge if you're ranked higher than the others. Yeah, yeah, that's probably going to be it. That's probably going to be it because we realized what was the problem with having Duke in the ACC championship game, right? Was it that a bad team that couldn't possibly win it was going? As we clearly saw, there, in fact, was a possibility that Duke wins that football day.

Starting point is 00:18:44 Yes, they did. Was it that there was some unfairness done to other teams? There's an argument for that. But then how do we say that it's a guaranteed fairness that the college football playoff committee is giving teams an equal amount of love? Because let's be honest, we all know the committee is rife with bias based on brands and all that. We've seen it time and time again. So now you're hurting all of your schools that are smaller brands.

Starting point is 00:19:14 That's just the fact of what you're doing by doing these ranking. So what was the actual problem? Well, in the words of Hurricane Legend, Michael Irvin, I lay heavy. And when you think about what lays heavy with ratings, it's bigger fan bases. It's more enthusiastic and more passionate fan bases. With all due respect, every metric shows this, so you can get mad at me all you want. but you're not watching enough football. Your fans aren't watching enough football.

Starting point is 00:19:48 That's just what it is. Duke football fans do not show out in the same way as other fan bases in the conference. As any other fan base that was up for the ACC championship, except them, I think the only one that was in their range was SMU and even SMU has been above them in viewership since they've joined the ACC. So ultimately what you're looking at here

Starting point is 00:20:10 is a scenario in which, you know, like you said, this tiebreaker is incentivizing big brands, big brands equal what? Lots of fans, big fan base, big fan base equal what? Lots of eyes, lots of eyes equal money. That's always where it's going to end up at. See, Dono is from old school Italy. He's going to get straight to the money right away. I like to take the back road, the wide back road.

Starting point is 00:20:34 But you see, Dono said it comes down to the cheddar, the Gabagalgoor right away. It's started, yeah. But that's what it is, right? Ultimately, you circle it all the way back. it's always going to come down to the money. And it's unfortunate. Because to me, the top record should be the conference record of the teams that you beat. And if the conference records of the teams that you beat are the same, then I'm fine with the rankings.

Starting point is 00:20:56 Because it's like, hey, y'all beat basically the same team. Yeah, I mean, hey, it's neck and neck, do your deal and go from there. But ultimately, what we're going to see is big brands benefit for you. And I'm still not a fan of giving at least one auto bid to a group of six. I mean, what did, I mean, Tulane and James Madison? Like, did either of them even have a chance to advance? So it's, you know, I mean, if someone has such an extraordinary season and they objectively deserve to be in as a G6, then I'm okay with it.

Starting point is 00:21:32 But, like, Tulane and James Madison were not objectively top 12 teams in the country. And obviously, JMU only got in because Duke had five losses. So there's only one auto bid for G6. But I don't even think there should be that because they're taking a spot away from a team that has a much better chance to make a run than they do. Well, now you're getting into the antitrust part of it, right? Because if you lock out the G6 and we're seeing that empirical data is showing, champion after champion after champion is being left out. And we may have a one shining moment UCF team that had to win 26 straight games

Starting point is 00:22:09 or something crazy like that to get in. Now it's very clear that you can say, hey, empirically, we are not allowed a chance at a national championship. Empirically, the college football playoff is doing us a damage in terms of finances by not allowing us in. Now here's the thing. From a completely football standpoint, from a completely like, hey, on the field, do you have a shot? you have a chance. More often than not, the G6, I mean, it's just not there. You have certain

Starting point is 00:22:38 players that are good enough to be at the power four level. But the reality is, by and large, G6 doesn't have the depth, doesn't have the talent in the trenches. That's just kind of what it is. With that being said, with that being said, I'm not opposed to him getting a bid because I'm a big believer. And if you line it up, you play your games and you win your games, I almost lost the clean rating. I don't give a darn about a team that has three losses, saying, we belong in. Our three losses, which are really good teams. Well, guess what you're going to plan in the playoff, buddy?

Starting point is 00:23:13 Really good teams. Really good teams. That's what you're going to get more of. So ultimately, give the folks who did not get a chance, a shot, and say, let's see what they can do. Let's see what a two-lane can do. Let's see what a gym you can do. And if they get booted up out of there, that's okay.

Starting point is 00:23:31 because the average margin of victory in playoff games was about 17 points last time I checked. Two test downs on a field goal is not a close game. That's not a close game at all. So, you know, blowouts are going to happen. They're going to be mismatches and all that. It doesn't just start and end with the G6. So I think they deserve a shot. Well, coming up next, the ACC is currently at 18 members, including Notre Dame.

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Starting point is 00:26:11 Kenton and Grayson Boone do an awesome job on Lockdown Wolfpack talking all things NC State. I talk all things Miami on Locked on Cains. All right, Kenton. So when asked about expansion and further conference realignment, right, we had a couple years ago, it was wild, right? With Big 12, Big Ten, making additions to the ACC, adding Cal, Stanford, and SMU. Jim Phillips, the conference commissioner, said,

Starting point is 00:26:37 no one really knows. I do believe there's been a restabilization after a period of expansion. We have 18 great schools, 17 that play football. Our expansion was additive. We did not lose any schools, and we garnered two new areas, which really were important to us

Starting point is 00:26:54 to get into the state of Texas and the state of California with SMU Cal and Stanford. It now allows us a more national footprint spanning coast to coast. We have presence in each of the five most populated states in the country. No other power conference is in more than two. The ACC footprint now includes four of the top 10 largest designated market areas or DMAs, and so that's what took place during that instability period of time.

Starting point is 00:27:20 No one's naive not to think that there couldn't be future expansion, he said. It's just the history of college sports. What you want to continue to do is pay attention to your league and your schools, continue to be a place that your school, schools want to be in and are proud members of. And that's what we've done. No one knows what the future holds, but we'll continue to be aggressive. Now, I mean, in my opinion, Kenton, I don't, I don't see the need to add anybody. I think what we're all going to be watching for over the next five years when we get towards 2031 is, are you going to lose anybody when, you know, the price to buy

Starting point is 00:27:58 yourself out of the grant of rights gets to 75 million, which is a lot of money. but it's manageable is what they say. Although I saw the amount of debt that Florida State is currently in, and maybe I'm not so sure if that's manageable for them, even though they want to get out. But, I mean, to me, I'm not looking at adding more schools right now. I'm just looking at trying to keep who you have. I 100% agree.

Starting point is 00:28:20 And here's the thing, right? 18 is already too big. 18 is already too big to be honest. Look at the Big Ten as a prime example. Penn State has a schedule this year. right they have Wisconsin, Northwestern, USC, Michigan, Purdue, Washington,

Starting point is 00:28:39 Minnesota, Records, Maryland as their schedule. Of those teams, only I believe two or three of the conference opponents finished in the top half of the conference. They play nine conference games. Wow. So they're going to have six to seven games

Starting point is 00:28:55 of playing teams that were in the bottom half of the conference last year. Why would you want to bring that to the ACC. And mind you, we're already there. Why would you want to get bigger? You what I'm saying? Like it's, it de facto creates an incongruence in who draws, what straws in terms of the luck of the draw with conferences. And that was going to happen regardless. Even with 10-11 teams, some teams get better draws, some teams get worse draws, but at least

Starting point is 00:29:24 in that way, you can ensure for the most part, everybody's playing everybody. You're not seeing a situation where you've got Penn State with that schedule. But then you turn it over to Northwestern and they've got a murderer's role of Indiana, Penn State, Michigan State, Rutgers, Oregon, Iowa, Ohio State, Minnesota, Illinois. Oh, my God. What did the fighting Preston Stones do to y'all? What did they do? To what end? Like, this is crazy.

Starting point is 00:29:57 So ultimately, I see there should not be a world in which we're creating conferences. so large that one team is just getting hammered by the top half of the conference and another team is like oh look am i at a children's birthday party it's cupcakes everywhere cupcakes for you cupcakes for me got let me get another cupcake i might just cupcake my way to a big 10 championship appearance it's we we don't want to see that in the aces and if you expand the conference out even more you create a bigger possibility for that happen i mean like is there anybody out there right now is a G6 that you would consider additive? You know, obviously people can hypothesize, you know, maybe you take somebody from the Big 12 or so, which I don't see happening.

Starting point is 00:30:40 But in terms of like teams that are G6 right now, which are obviously more attainable than grabbing somebody from another power for conference, I mean, I could see like, you know, USF, South Florida, you know, as maybe semi-attractive. Memphis is someone that, but again, like, when I say these things aloud, like I don't feel like the, like the ACC needs to, oh, you better get Memphis and USF before it's too late.

Starting point is 00:31:07 I mean, I don't see any rush to make something like that happen. Don't let Tulane stay on the market too long. You know, you want that New Orleans market. You want that new, New Orleans don't care about too late. With all due respect,

Starting point is 00:31:18 with all the respect. They're not, they're not the team. The tigers are the team down there. So, you know, ultimately you're absolutely right. I don't see any teams

Starting point is 00:31:28 that just jump off the page that are screaming at me, hey, you got to have this team, you got to have this team. Unless we shed multiple teams, and I'm not talking about the big boys, unless we shed multiple teams that are adding precious little to the conference, because at which point, then I think it's like you're talking about a different ball game, right? And the teams who don't add much, if you get rid of one of them and say, hey, let's bring in JMU, that's a team on the rise as opposed to this team that's been stably, nothing for the past 50 years, sure,

Starting point is 00:31:58 We can have that conversation, right? But, you know, adding these teams just outright with where we are now, that's growth for growth sake. And you know what uncontrolled growth is called in the body? Cancer. Oh, yeah. Wow. Good, good scientific reference in your 100,000 percent right. That we do not want that.

Starting point is 00:32:18 We do not want just growth for growth sake, uncontrollable growth, growth, growth that we can't stop. Knock it all. I'm with you. Well, huge thank you. Shout out to the everydayers for making locked on ACs. your first list. Make sure you join the everyday or club. Click the link in the show notes below. Make sure you check out

Starting point is 00:32:34 Kenton and Grayson on Lockdown Wolfpack and follow Kenton at TGIF underscore Kenton. Follow me at Alex Dono and check me out on Lockdown Caines. And we'll talk to everybody next time on another episode of Lockdown ACC. We are part of the awesome number one Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team

Starting point is 00:32:50 every day.

Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - Can Jim Phillips and Pete Bevacqua REPAIR the ACC-Notre Dame Fallout After Last Year’s Drama?

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