Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - Clemson Tigers File Lawsuit Against ACC

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

Clemson Tigers follow FSU's lead in suing the ACC to exit the conference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Well, yet another school has decided that they want to no longer be in the ACC. We'll talk about Clemson's latest lawsuit among many for our conference. We'll talk about the response from the ACC and just maybe who could potentially be next. Could this be the ending? We'll find all of that out here on today's episode of Locked on ACC. You are Locked on ACC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. On all, everybody, welcome to today's edition of Locked on ACC. I'm your host, Candace Cooper, joined by Kens and Gibbs of Lockstone Wolfpack.

Each and every day, you find us wherever you list of podcasts. Make sure you download, subscribe to the pod from anywhere. We are talking about our latest in the greatest of lawsuits. We're in top five here. We're going to rank them when it's all said and done. Right now we're at three lawsuits. But when it's all said and done, maybe we'll be at five. We can decide who's what's the best.

But Clemson is the latest school to decide that they want to tussle with the ACC. and now we find ourselves just in a frenzy about whether or not will be a conference. This is the beginning of the end, as started by FSU. And of course, Clemson has their grievances. We'll talk about all of that. But maybe there's more people who are just waiting, sitting behind the wings, just going to unload before the summer ends. Kenton, how are we feeling about this latest drop in the bucket?

You know, I'm going to tell y'all this. Like I've said all along, I have said that there were how many teams that could potentially take the buyout or pay a buyout and leave i said there are two and the two were florida state and clemson the two are already in they're committed to this thing they're committed to getting out more power to them the rest of y'all sit your tail right where you at the rest of y'all were considering keeping coaches that were terrible so you didn't have to pay him and another coach at the same time the rest of y'all don't got money like they do so i understand that the d lank deals ain't dealing, but you got, I'm sorry to tell you, these buyouts are making it look like

a lot of y'all just going to have to sit there and eat your food. Well, I guess I'd be interested to see Clemson from a financial state. Like, I don't think I would love to know where their money is coming from, right? We made accusations from Florida State's crew and their boosters and all the like. So I would love to know if they also have a nine-figure penalty type beat to, you know, unleash. But Clemson filed a lawsuit in Pickens County, South Carolina. So where they file the lawsuit certainly matters.

but this is a second lawsuit that the ACC faced after at Florida State. We talk about that the ACC is also suing Florida State. So there's this little duel. But why is Clemson doing it? The ACC actions interfere with Clemson's free exercise of its rights and are fatally detrimental to Clemson's efforts to ensure that its athletic programs can continue to compete at the highest level, which is critically important to Clemson, even beyond athletics.

Pete Thamell tweeted that out. So basically, y'all are hurting us as a brand. Y'all are hurting us to get our athletics left to par. So, you know, two bad seasons. And we're ready to get out of here. Chanigans. But go ahead. How do you feel about their statement in response as to why they want to lead?

Your head coach is refuses to use the forward with this hurting. ACC and what they're doing in their deals. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's not helping you. It's not making you, you know. But I say this again. And like a lot of people aren't understanding me when I say this. I am telling you this as a lot of,

a guy who played at one of the colleges that's not seen as like the upper echelon of the deal, but that's traveled to those schools, that's played at those, that camped at those schools in high school, all that good stuff. I'm telling you all this, and I mean this from a very genuine standpoint, there's not much more you can do or ask for out of any of these places. Like, I get it. I understand that nobody ever wants to just have less money to have less money. I understand that. What I am saying is you pay top dollar for your new You pay top dollars for your chefs. You pay top dollar for all the food coming in.

You pay top dollar for, you know, you got a lazy river at your school. You got all these different things. Your locker room looks like a spaceship. Great. At some point in time, you still got to put the ball down to play. Like that's just the reality here. And I understand that everybody's saying, well, if we make the maximum amount of money for our school and for our team, that we can make spread out the money amongst all the

different sports and all that, which means we can elevate not just football. We can elevate basketball. women's basketball, baseball, baseball, volleyball, the Olympic sports, all the things. Listen, I get that. I really do understand you. But there's, you know, at a certain point in time, again, all of this, it's being driven so much by the money. And it's so interesting to me to hear all of these coaches talk about, including

Clemson's head coach and Davos Swinning, talking about what it would mean if the players get paid and how the players shouldn't be getting paid. Meanwhile, these universities are willing. willing to break apart alliances that have stood for decades, half a century plus in the name of, hey, we need to get that extra $20 million a year that we can get over there. We need to get that extra $30 million. We can get over there. Okay.

I don't think, again, you know, you can't, what's good for the game, there has to be good for the keys. And if it's good for the schools to seek the maximum amount of money possible, you can't be mad at the players for doing the same thing. Well, I'm wondering if it's in preparation for a world with which our student athletes are becoming employees, right? They're trying to get the financial means to be able to wheel and deal for the day that, you know, the courts are saying these are employees. You have to pay them as such. And, of course, comes with the, hey, I might make $50,000 over here.

But at Alabama, I'm making $80,000 over there. And I'm making it, you know, and I'm sure it to be tiered based on positions and all the things. but maybe that's the reasoning. I'm trying to find a logical reason as to the rat race to always have more when in reality it does come down to the X's and O's. So, you know, I'm genuinely concerned with which it's never going to be enough. And in the world where NIL and you're having kids come in and play and if you're not paying me the right dollar, but if you're not good, son,

I could pay you a million to come to my program. But if you can't put the toe in the line, what's the point? Yeah. And again, I understand it. I understand that nobody ever wants to be behind in the arms race, right? It's the old principle of like, hey, if they got nukes, we need nukes. Like, that's what is happening here. And, you know, I get it.

I understand why no team wants to fall behind in that. And so with that being said, you know, Clemson filed in this lawsuit makes a lot of sense because, again, they can pay and there would be a market for them. But again, all the rest of your tails, sit firm. Sit time. Well, I also think that one has the advantage because they are their premier school for their state, right? I think Florida State can make that argument for their state as well. You could probably dabble with the Florida's and the miamias of the world.

But truly, like the ones that stand out, the Florida states, the Clemsons, right? They are the staple what you think about when you think of those respective states. When you think about some other schools, you know, we'll talk about here in a bit about who's next. There's a lot that goes into those conversations, especially because they are public schools. And you sort of, it's a one-two punch you have to go with. you know, bring your brother and all that kind of stuff. Now, to the point of Clemson, right? The ACC said,

Clemson agreed to the process and procedures for withdrawal, and they will be vigorously enforced. The ACC remains confident per Jimmy P that its agreements with all members of will be affirmed by the courts. Clemson, along with ACC members, voluntarily signed and re-signed the 2013 and 2016 grant of rights, which is binding through 2036. In addition, Clemson agrees to the process and procedures for withdrawal. The conference's legal counsel will vigorously enforce the agreement and bylaws in the best interest of the ACC's current and incoming members.

So, hear me clear, 236, 2036. And because y'all filed in these lawsuits, I think that's pissing off the ACC more. And maybe Jimmy P actually has a set of Cajunay to let them know you're going to pay this penalty. You can leave. You can leave all you want to, but you're going to cough up some sort of money. I hope to God that Clemson and Florida State's legal teams find that said loophole that's going to get them out of here unscathed and barely scathed because they're going to have to pay something. But it doesn't feel like that's the case. Here's the thing.

I don't hope one way or the other for them to be unscathed that for them to have to pay the max penalty. I really don't. It don't make me no never in mind, you know, however it shakes out. But what I will say is this. If the ACC actually ends up winning these cases, here's the thing, right? there's three different scenarios that we can't. Yeah, finish that thought, though. I want to hear what your thought was. If the

ACC ends up winning these cases, that is a darn near a billion dollar windfall for the rest of these schools. Like, of course, you divide the billion amongst schools, but that's darn near a billion dollars for the rest of these schools, right? That's one of the scenarios

that shakes out here. If the ACC goes to court and their contracts are affirmed and they say, hey, the judge says it is what it is. Big off, you signed the contract. If we can get everybody out of a contract because it's detrimental to them, then this destroys the music industry, this destroys this industry, that industry where it is by nature predatory and like you, part of it is we are going to exploit you. Like, oh, no more payday loans for anybody because like those interests,

you know, just saying if it's like, hey, you signed a bad deal, you got to deal with those consequences is, you know, part of it or no longer on the table, how far does that extend out to is the question. So that's ACC wins. Bang, billion dollars for everybody. Let's talk about the furthest to the opposite. Clems in the Florida state win. Judges say, you know what?

These contracts are fully restrictive prohibitive. Don't make sense. Okay, now we can see a situation where why do these schools even have to listen to the NCAA anymore? You see what I'm saying? Because it's not like, well, the NCAA is holding up our money. We believe that

them not allowing us to pay this player or $5 million to play for our school is holding up our funds. And I know that we signed this contract. However, this boy is 6 foot 5, 240 pounds. He can run a 4-4 and he can throw a ball at Country Mile on the road. He needs to be our quarterback. Then where do you look at there? But more importantly, even if we're not talking about the far out ramifications of like

the rocks given across the pebble, we just talk about where it lands. We can talk about the fact that if these two teams get out, that still doesn't mean much for the rest of the ACC, because again, which one of y'all have better landing spots to go to? Who has a better landing spot to go to? You can't just leave on the principle of, I don't like it here. I'm taking my ball and going home. You need a new place to land. Because if you don't have that, congratulations.

We just went from four to 20 independence. And I didn't really think that Floressay can make an argument for independence. I don't necessarily think Clemson can make an argue for independence. I don't see why they would. but I would love to talk about who would be considered as a next go-to to leave here in just a bit. But I want to remind our folks here that Better Together is the first cooperative daily fantasy application. Better Together offers a familiar experience for existing DFS players with a social twist. You can play with a friend or teammate.

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As a part of the 16 school system, they cannot leave without the brother. Virginia, Virginia Tech. They are twins when it comes to these legalities. They ain't leaving without each other. So we talked about, you know, the great eight that tried to migrate over the summer. We talked about, you know, certain teams that definitely wanted to turn their head, Louisville and all that good stuff. Didn't happen.

A whole lot of nonsense. But I will say Clemson pulling the next trigger, could everybody sort of rebel, depending on how the outcome comes of these cases? No, because where are you going to go? There has to be a spot for you, right? It's like if you think about children running away, right? Except like these children are all adults. Like we're talking about children that are running away for millions of dollars.

You have to be running to a better situation. Right. Where is everybody going to go? Again, there's a lot of teams here. I know, and here's the thing, I know everybody believes our brand is big enough that we can go ahead. We'll go up to the Big Ten and say,

hey, we're such and so university. The University is such and so. We're at such and so State University. And guess what the Big Ten is going to tell you? Oh, that's nice. So, like, you know, come take us, and they're going to be like, I don't think I will. Sure.

Well, that's fine. We'll go to the SEC. We're on the South anyway. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, you don't have a conference? Good for you. Yeah, but y'all going to take us right? No. Oh, okay. Well, I guess we'll go over to the Big 12. And then at that point, you've paid to make a lateral move. That's crazy, right? That's like job hopping to go to the exact same job for the exact same pay at a different company. When the current company you're with is not like a toxic environment, anything like that. It just doesn't make sense. The bad just doesn't, you know, you're cutting your legs from under you to say, hey, I got to pay you a couple million. I got to pay you. you anywhere from, you know, the one situation I didn't talk about was what is most likely. You end up paying a low, maybe mid-six, low to mid-six figure type deal. So, you know, it ends up being maybe you got to pay one or two hundred instead of four to five.

And that's what it ends up being. Okay, how many schools have that to pay? And does it make sense to pay that to then go over to the Big 12? That's, you know, I don't think it does. so I think that everybody stays, but I will tell you this, if it was based off fan base and what they want, the next team out the door would definitely be Miami. Miami, their fans just know. They got the money. They got the brand name.

They got all the things to leave, even if reality doesn't necessarily support that. Well, you know, I think they definitely have the money, whether it's, you know, legit money. It's a whole day of conversation, right? They definitely know where to find it when they need it. But I will say what's interesting is the fact that, you know, finding a home is very real. Making lateral moves is very real. And when you talk about the intangibles of joining conferences where the travel, the sports, how many sports do you keep including?

Because certain, you know, SEC, certain big tens, they don't necessarily have fencing. They don't necessarily have, you know, you're rowing, your whatever sports, and you're trying to advocate for more by saying there's detrimental. and yet you'll potentially have to cut some of your programs because they just don't have the, you know, competitiveness to compete or have sort of conference championships or have a full season, things like that. So that's certainly something to consider as well. So a ACC conference that prides itself on having 28 sports, it's sort of what do you, what do you really want in the end? And if it's just football, just say the quiet part out loud. And if you just want to be a better school, I don't know, get better coaches.

get better guys i don't i don't know the answer but i don't think eating filet mignon's and having a nutrition as a massage therapist and tutors and all the things that you need really just you know i don't understand what more you could ask for besides just the application of what you have with what you currently have yeah and i i i a thousand percent agree to that and uh from from a financial standpoint who could be next is that's a question that i i don't think we have a sufficient answer for because i haven't peered into any of these schools financials but i I would like to believe that even if everybody had 100 million, 200 million to pay to get out,

I would like to believe that these teams are aware of the fact that finding a landing spot is a different story. And, you know, we're going to get into this toward the end. But I think there's one path for survival for both the ACC and the Big 12. And that's merger. And I know everybody's acting like that's a dirty word, but I want to say it. I don't care if we lose our clean rating. they need to merge. They need to.

For what? I think that North Carolina definitely is the team that financially has the means. They definitely have the lawyers. They definitely are doing their homework to figure out how to leave. The biggest problem is you ain't leaving by yourself.

That's their hiccup. They would have been for the lawsuit. I disagree. I disagree. And I say that from this standpoint. Let's say North Carolina does leave, right? And actually, this isn't need about North Carolina because I know everybody going to say,

oh, that's just you because you hate North Carolina. Let's take it to Virginia. Virginia Tech. Two schools that happen to be fond of. I like both of them. Right. And you say, well, let's just pretend that Virginia has double the money UNC does. Okay. But let's just, let's just pretend, right? We're living in the land to make the leave and, you know, and anybody who knows me, knows. I love me some Virginia Tech. I'll absolutely adore them. With that being said, let's just say that, you know, those schools had the money to leave. Okay. But in this world, even though they have the money, their viewership is what it is.

Their fan base is what it is. Like that just, you know, their brand does not grow based upon that. Do either one of those teams command enough eyes for you to say like, hey, that team, you need them in the Big Ten. That team, you need them in the SEC. And again, this isn't Kenton's feelings. This is not affirmation time. This is information time, folks.

The numbers say that nobody else in the conference draws that type of. of crowd to make it make sense to go to the Big Tenor SEC outside Clemson, Florida State. That's it. That's what the numbers say. Are we talking about football? Yes, because football is what moves it. Think about it this way. And I'm glad we're getting into this because this is the other part.

A lot of people believe my basketball team is a winner, so we've got the break. That's not how this works. Like I keep trying to tell everybody, Yukon is the number one seat overall. Candace, what conference are they in? Biggies. What conference are they in for football? Independent, I do believe. Independent.

They're an independent. They're an independent. That's what I'm saying. Providence, they're not, they're historically, really good basketball school. They're not there. Craton, historically, really good basketball school. They didn't end up in one of the bigger, better conferences.

I am trying to tell everybody in the most gentle way I can, basketball means as much to this as whether or not your coach has a nice beer. Those two things have equal value in this conversation. Well, 20,000 person stadiums or 80,000 person stadiums. Right. To make it move the needle. Absolutely. If basketball matter, if basketball matter, Kansas will be in the SEC.

If basketball matter, Kansas would be an SEC. What conference are they in, Kenv? The Big 12. The Big 12. Well, Texas and Oklahoma left, but they got a bigger basketball brand of both of those schools. was just about combined. Why didn't they go? Well, we know Texas is football.

Cash is king. Basket. But that's what I'm saying. Football is king everywhere. I know that we like to believe, hey, North Carolina is the hoop state, so hoops are going to leave it. The money doesn't work out that way. I'm sorry to tell you, like you said, Candace, it's just the mathematics, 20,000

stadium, 80,000 stadium. It's not close. You talk about the difference between the viewership of bowl games and the viewership of March Madness. It's not close. The final four barely gets the numbers of a Pop-Tarks bowl. That's the reality. I know that everybody likes to find ways to say,

my team is in for this reason and everything. Listen, information, not affirmation. The information of the matter is your football team has to draw the eyes to make you worth it, to make you valuable, to make you seen as like, hey, this matters. I was talking to Spencer McLaughlin about this earlier, and he said that Miami's brand, in terms of football viewership and total attendance is behind Louisville. And they're in the 30s.

That's the reality. Now, could you make the argument that, well, the ACC Network does their, the ACC does their deal so poorly in terms of TV that that may be why they're behind? You can make that argument, but I'm sorry to tell you all, again, just statistically speaking, that it still doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't, translate in the way that you think it does. That's just what the numbers say. So will the conference survive this very possibly? But again, the Big 12 and the ACC need to get real with themselves and stop saying this. We're the better of the little brother. No, we're the better. We got better

basketball. We've got to shut up, you idiots, join together, and realize your only hope is saying, you know what, I'm McDonald's. I will never make better steak than Sullivan. I will never make a better meal one for one to solve it. But you know what I can do? I can provide more of my stuff than they can. We will be ubiquitous. We will be everywhere. No doubt about it. Let's talk about where we feel like it'll all shake out. But this week's March Madness Bracket is brought to you by our friends at Nissan. Each week, we're picking one team that stands out, a team that's push it further than the rest. Just like any of the all-new 2024 Nissan SUVs, these guys were able to take it to the next level. The Auburn Tigers can only be described as the

Pathfinder, they've been thrilling to watch and have really created a lane for themselves after claiming the top spot in the SEC. As they knocked off the Florida Gators and SEC Championship, they're set to make a nice run in the NCAA tournament. Take the Nissan Road, Nissan Pathfinder, or Nissan Armada, and go find your next big adventure. Shop NissanUSA.com. So we end with this, right? At the end of the day, these people have to find home. Conference has to keep moving. Does the conference still exist? You never thought you see the conference of champions not exists, but the PAC 12 is no more. The ACC is a very real jeopardy of being no more. Not to say I feel indifferent about all of it at this point because I think it's just, again, a rat race towards what? I can't seem to understand what is the end goal besides

bigger, better, faster for football and not necessarily for anybody else. And what does that ultimately help your young men and women who are trying to be better members of society? Who knows? However, the conference could stand, and if it does, what does that look like? Do you have an ODIU try and join? Do you have a West Virginia? Do you have a Cincinnati? Like, what does the ACC stand for? Will it be like a big east that sort of fade away and fizzle? Or can it still be one of those top Power 5 brains? I think it looks, I think that the situation with Clemson and Florida State leaving for the the ACC looks much more similar to Texas and Oklahoma leaving the Big 12 than it does look to look like the destruction of the Pact 12. That's something I'll say till I'm blew in the face because, again, the contracts, they keep everybody here.

And a lot of these fan bases, you know, everybody's fans, base is short for fanatic. We know that. We get a little fanatical about our teams. I know I do. You know, I know I get a little delusional about NC states. I know, I know I get a little delusional, you know. But with that in mind, when we move to reality, reality, a lot of these teams, it doesn't make sense for you to go anywhere.

It's just, it doesn't. And if it means that you have to take a lesser share than other schools that are in your state, that's unfortunate. I hate it for you. That's where you are. That's just where you are. And that's what the reality is. And so, you know, I'd say the conference survives this, but it's only a matter of time.

because, you know, much like I feel like about the Big 12, I feel the same way about the ACC in that if you don't find a way to make yourselves viable, which again, I would love to be proven wrong and I would love to see these two conferences find a way to be viable without my idea of merging. And it's not my idea, but it's other people I've proposed as well. But without the idea of a merge, I'd love to see it. I just don't think that that pathway exists. So I think they survived this, but I think the closer you get to 2036 is that buyout starts to dwindle down. a little bit, we may see more of these teams the fact that you're going else with. You know, at this point, I genuinely think you stick beside it.

I don't think it's working nine-figure penalty, especially after you try and figure out the trajectory of being a crippled, having to pay a nine-figure penalty, having to pay something towards that means, or even if you have to pay a penalty at all, you're going to be still behind. So you're going to have to play catch-up for how many years, like that forecasting.

So that's my biggest question to a lot of these guys trying to, you know, sort themselves out. and at the end of the day, if it's not going to financially benefit you or put you in a position to be successful, then maybe we should reconsider why we are throwing ourselves to the wolves. Also, I hope you are having backdoor conversation with Sankey. Hope you're having backdoor conversations, whoever new Big Ten Commissioner is, and ensuring yourself a spot when this is all said and done. Because right now, again, I don't see where you land.

So I think that's the biggest part of it. Like, do you have a home? Like, you're feeling real boisterous, real confident. But I truly think that, say, if I were to, like, throw it out there is going independent. Inshed, maybe. If somebody is actually having those backdoor conversations, y'all better hope that nobody pulls out the fun word that we know is for you. Or else, y'all are going to have to pay some millions on top of that buyout, friends.

So, you know, if you're having that conversation, you know, maybe don't have it record. Maybe. On the golf course. Don't put it in right. Right. Have some lunch and all the things. but it remains to be seen about where we are. We just know this is what it is.

Clemson, unfortunately, has decided that they want to take their talents elsewhere. Who knows where we'll all trickle down, but we will definitely stay tuned and locked. It could be another lawsuit tomorrow. Who knows? But we hope you guys enjoy the show. We hope you guys give us your comments. We know you're going to give us your feedback. Be kind.

And if you don't, it's fine. I love to chat right back. So for Candace Cooper and Kens and Gibbs, until next time.