Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - Does Clemson Have An Ace Up Their Sleeve Against The ACC? | UNC Lawyered Up Before FSU?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Does Clemson have an ace up their sleeve in their legal fight against the ACC? You are Locked on ACC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Shout out to the everydayers for making Locked on ACC your first listen and your first watch today. We're available free wherever you get your podcast. We're free on YouTube. We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team every day.

Starting point is 00:00:33 Today's episode is brought to you by Fanduel. Make every moment more. Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $150 with any winning $5 bet. Visit Fanduel.com slash Locked On to get started. He's Kenton Gibbs from Lockdown Wolfpack. I am Alex Dono from Lockdown Keynes on this episode. We will talk about ACC baseball teams advancing to the Super Regionals.

Starting point is 00:01:01 But it's all about the legal drama. Another Law and Order ACC edition. Did UNC actually lawyer up before Florida State and Clemson, even though UNC is not suing the ACC, at least not yet? But there had been some updates, Kenton, over the past few days on Clemson's lawsuit against the ACC. In fact, Clemson has, this is per the Post and Courier, Clemson filed a motion last week, late last week, to potentially speed up its court case against the Atlantic Coast Conference. in a motion for summary judgment entered on May 30th in Pickens County, Clemson's lawyers asked the court to set a hearing on or before July 12th. The university is asking for a declaration that the ACC only owns its broadcast rights for games played

Starting point is 00:01:49 while the Tigers are in the ACC, and that granting the league Clemson's rights for the entirety of the ESPN deal, which could run until 2036, is not quote unquote, necessary for the ACC to fulfill its obligation. in the contract. And the funny thing about this, Kenton, is the general public, the version of the ESPN contract with the ACC that regular people who are, you know, not involved in the courts, the version that we have are full of redactions. So we don't really know the meat and potatoes of what is in that ESPN ACC contract. But you have Clemson on one side who apparently feels like there's a smoking gun in there that could get them summary judgment to declare once you leave

Starting point is 00:02:33 the conference, ESPN, the ACC, they can't keep your TV rights, whereas the ACC clearly feels like the opposite is true, that if someone leaves our conference, your TV rights are still locked in with us until 2036. Yeah, and this is one of those moments that is going to be, and this is not, no pun intended here, but this is going to be a seminal moment in this case. This is going to be a moment that people look back at and say definitively, this leaned it one way or the other, because if there is not a smoking gun, this is not just a moment of a potential smoking gun for Clemson. This is a potential huge domino for all of the conferences that are allied with ESPN. Why do I say that, right? Let's say that the Big Tens, somehow the Big Tens revenue outpaces the

Starting point is 00:03:22 SECs by a good margin in the near future. Who knows how that could happen? Let's just say it does happen. what I have heard from everybody close to the situation is that all of the deals with ESPN were done in a copy-paced fashion. The only difference is the number amounts. So the deals with ESPN include the following conferences, the SEC, the ACC, and the Big 12 to some extent, but they don't have like full leeway over the Big 12. So the reality of this is, if this deal is bad, if they, If there is something in here that there is a smoking gun like Clemson says, I don't know the validity of the whole copy and page deal either. But what I do know is that both of those things are in fact true. At that point in time, it pretty much gives free reign for any team to leave any conference at any moment unless there was to be a reworking of those deals, especially for those who are aligned with ESPN.

Starting point is 00:04:23 So that's a major moment, not just for Clemson, not just for Florida State, but for all of college football as we know it. It would be a moment that sends shockwaves that are massive. Wow. Could be, seriously, because it's a huge difference. Like for anyone who's trying to leave the ACC, you know, the idea of, and it would still be expensive to leave the conference, right? Whether you can take your TV rights with you or not, you know, we're talking about potential

Starting point is 00:04:53 potentially a 140 or maybe a couple million under that, but about $140 million buyout just to leave the conference under normal circumstances. I'm sure that Clemson, Florida State, they would try to negotiate a lower number, but we're talking about about 140 million to leave the conference, but then you're potentially, if you can't take your TV rights, then you're, you know, it's really more north of 500 million, which is probably cost prohibitive for anyone to get out of that deal. So it makes, you're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars here that are at stake. And I've said it before, I'll say it again. A big advantage that Florida State and Clemson have is that they can cheat off each other's notes, right? That when Clemson presented some additional

Starting point is 00:05:34 arguments against the ACC, Florida State was able to maybe adapt part of Clemson's legal approach to their own. Remember, when they had to make that amended argument in the Florida courts, they were able to make a little bit of Clemson's homework on that. Whereas, you know, the ACC doesn't really they don't really have that luxury, right, where they just have to kind of work their own strategy. They don't have anybody else's paper to cheat off of. So that could be a big advantage for both Clemson and Flores State in the fact that they can, I'll use the word, I don't mean this as an illegal thing, but they can essentially collude with one another legally. Yeah. And of course, it's informal collusion where it's like, oh, this is how it worked out for them. Okay, we're not going

Starting point is 00:06:12 to try that strategy. We'll try this one instead. Or, oh, this is what they reworked. And you're absolutely right there in that, you know, it's a, it's a little bit of a situation where you're battling on multiple fronts and many more variables could go wrong for you as the ACC. But if I'm the ACC, I like this gambit that Clemson is going for and that, hey, we believe that there is prohibitively nothing there that stops us from leaving and taking our rights with us. Well, great. If I'm the ACC, I'm like, good. Because allegedly, the numbers that were reported in the same article that you said to me, somebody's already spent upwards of half a million or nearly half a million dollars on lawyer fees so far, so far. And that's to this point. And you and I

Starting point is 00:06:56 both know how slow court can go. So this thing could drag out into somebody could be added to the forward list just from this. Okay. And so the reality is, if I'm the ACC, I'm excited by this. I'm saying, hey, listen, this is a big risk, but one way or the other, I'm one of those people that I don't like to meander over decisions long. I don't like to, you know, I like to, I'm a big believer and study long, study wrong. You work with the best information you got. You collect all the information you get and go from there. Clemson is cutting down that time exponentially by saying, hey, make the judgment right now. We'd love if you make the judgment. Do we have to pay them to leave in terms of our TV rights? Can we take them with us or no? And if I was the ACC, I'm like,

Starting point is 00:07:39 I, I too would like to know. Is there language in here that? That is there language in here that is not good language for us. Let us know right away so we can go back and adjust that language for the rest of the teams or whatever the case may be, as opposed to having to drag this out up until middle, 2025, maybe late 2025, early 2026 to find out the same result. No, let's get it over with. Let's get it over with. I, you know, played under the legendary Ryan Nilsson and he used to say, scrambling quarterbacks are bad for business, but I like to say, don't run. You'll just die tired. I would if I'm the ACC I'm the same way I'm not running from this thing because I'm not trying to die tired and broke what we're going to do is if you want to get this out the way I want to get this out the way tell me is there language is there not language because if there isn't language then great we can get that out the way right now so you can know that your case has no legs right away as opposed to us taking forever in a day to figure out the same thing you brought up legal fees we have access to some of those numbers because matt baker from the Tampa Bay times was able to get some of those through people public records requests.

Starting point is 00:08:45 And Kenton, I don't know whose lawyers are better between Florida state's lawyers and Clemson's lawyers, but I can tell you, Clemson got a much better deal. So you must have had a coupon or something because according to Matt Baker, the hourly rates for Florida states outside attorneys range from $550 to $985 per hour. Clemson's hourly rates for their lawyers are $200 to $350 per hour. He does right, though figures as high as 1,700 are crossed out. I'm not sure what that means. But it sounds like Florida States law,

Starting point is 00:09:20 I don't know if they're twice as good as Clemson's lawyers, but they're twice as expensive. Well, Clemsons are working twice as fast because they're ready to cut to the chase. They said, listen, they ain't paying me enough. I'm doing this for the love of the game. Let's get to the conclusion of this thing. Right away. Florida states lawyers are like, hey, if this has to take a couple more years,

Starting point is 00:09:38 we're okay with that. Florida State's lawyers like, these things take time, you know? And we need to not be in such a rush to get out of this thing. You know, there are legal proceedings of a very precarious nature going on, a very curious nature going on here. And I don't want to rush this and make a bad decision. Let's take our time. One motion a month maximum, okay? Let's take our time with this thing.

Starting point is 00:10:01 Meanwhile, Clemsonsons lawyers are, hey, I'm on a highway to hell. Let's roll it. Let's do it. We're going on rails on a crazy train. We need to do it right now. Well, we got a lot more still to talk about because, I don't think things are going to go this quickly, but there is a certain date near the end of the summer where I'm sure Clemson or Florida State would love to have some legal resolution. We'll talk about when that date is.

Starting point is 00:10:25 I'll also want to talk about North Carolina. So UNC, they're not suing the ACC, but they did lawyer up before anyone else. And we'll talk about why that happened. You want to keep it locked right here, my friends. We are only getting started on this brand new episode of Locked on ACC. Folks, if you're a small business owner, you need to have LinkedIn jobs in your life. When you're hiring, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role. That's why you have to check out LinkedIn jobs.

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Starting point is 00:11:51 your first listen and your first watch today. Hey, Locked On has launched the first ever national sports 24-7 streaming channel on YouTube, and now it's also available on Amazon Fire TV in the free Fire TV channels app. Locked on Sports Today is here for you 24-7 covering the top sports stories of the day with the local experts of Lockdown, plus our national shows covering every league. Find Lockdown Sports Today now available on the first. free Fire TV channels app. Alex Dono and Kenton Gibbs with you on this new episode of Lockdown ACC.

Starting point is 00:12:20 So this was pretty illuminating from Matt Baker's article in the Tampa Bay Times. He wrote a piece that gives you general updates on Florida State and Clemson's lawsuits against the ACC, not to mention the ACC's lawsuits against them. But he also talks about North Carolina. So FSU's contract actually began a month and a half. after North Carolina hired a firm for a legal firm for quote unquote advice and counseling if as and when needed regarding commercial issues involving athletics. Baker writes, what exactly are those commercial issues?

Starting point is 00:12:59 The school said, quote, nature and content of specific legal advice provided are privilege, not public. But after the Times requested legal contracts related to UNC's membership in the ACC, conference realignment and TV rights. The school provided the September 22 retainer with the law firm Scadden, ARPS, Slate, Meager, and Florm LLP. The firm's sports work has included TV deals with the PGA tour, sponsorship and broadcast rights with the LPGA,

Starting point is 00:13:32 intellectual property protection, and trademark disputes. And it seems like what prompted these schools with North Carolina actually doing it first, even though, again, they're not suing the ACC, at least not yet, was it seems like a lot of eyes were open with what, when it started happening with the PAC 12, when UCLA and USC declared they were going to the Big Ten, I think that's what prompted this handful of schools to start saying, hey, we at least need to explore the situation.

Starting point is 00:13:59 And you know what? Kenton, I got no problem with that, right? In fact, I feel like as an administration for any of these major universities, it's really your obligation to try. and make sure you're providing the best possible experience athletics-wise for the present and future, right? That you want to put your university in the best position to succeed financially. I'd like to think you also want to have the best interests of your quote-unquote student athletes in mind, you know, when you think about what's going to be the best situation to put

Starting point is 00:14:30 them in position to try and compete for championships and achieve greatness. So, you know, I think it is your duty as an administration member of any of these schools to to make sure you're providing the best possible experience. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, with the whole UNC thing, it was a question of until you read Deep Rehn, you're like, wait a minute, was this about the mishandling of funds thing, perhaps,

Starting point is 00:14:55 or the balancing of the budget thing that was going on there? But when you saw what the specifics of the law firm that they hired were into, you're like, oh, okay, this is clearly realignment and TV deal type of things. But, you know, I don't have a problem with anybody, using, you know, using their, and another big part of this is all of the money that has been used was allegedly discretionary funds or funds that were put into athletics specifically by boosts and all that.

Starting point is 00:15:23 I don't have a problem with that. I'm not one of those people that's like, hey, I don't want to see any money in the college because it's not money that was going into the college regardless. The athletics departments were working at separate entities and collecting money and donations specifically for athletics. They weren't saying, hey. That's an important note because, like, I'm a tax. in Florida, you're a taxpayer in North Carolina.

Starting point is 00:15:43 I wanted to make sure, like, hopefully they're not, like, spending tax money on the, which they're not doing. They're not doing it. They're not doing it. And so to me, that was the most important part. But also seeing the UNC Luride up, I mean, you know, I get it. It makes sense why they would. But obviously, for reasons that have come out since then, UNC is not necessarily in the best position to make an exit from the conference,

Starting point is 00:16:07 as well as some other things that are surrounding all of these situations in terms of what we're looking at for, in terms of what we're looking at for different teams by way of like what situations are they going into by going in the lawsuits. I feel like UNC's folks looked at it. They looked at all the information they had and said, hey, it doesn't make sense to go into lawsuits because going in the lawsuit is a very aggressive route. And we are all talking about a potential settlement or whatever the case may be. What is not discussed often because it's a very short possibility, it'd be the shortest episode of Marvel's whatever, is what if these teams lose?

Starting point is 00:16:46 What if Florida State Clips it? Go to court and the judge says, I don't know what y'all were reading. This clearly says, if you want to leave, your right stay here. You have no way around that. Congratulations for wasting your time and your money. But congratulations to the lawyers. Y'all just got paid very handsomely.

Starting point is 00:17:04 I'm sure some of you all will be driving new Mercedes Benzons. I hear G-Wagons are nice this time of year. So go for it. But, you know, that's something that needs to be discussed here. Because, again, you know, it's never wrong to look into an inquire about, am I getting the short end of the state? Am I getting a deal that I could potentially get out of to get into a better one? There's never anything wrong with that. But we have to recognize that once you get to the point of lawsuit, you are not just tangentially.

Starting point is 00:17:32 you are literally losing something fiscally. You are sacrificing something fiscally for your belief of a perceived gain that may not materialize. So, you know, this is one of those moments that, again, I'm not mad at anybody. I wouldn't be mad if I found out there more of our teams purchase lawyers to look into these things. But realistically, all that matters at this point in the words of Tony, or in the words of one Benedict Cumberbatch as Dr. Strange, we're in the end game now. Like that's that's where we are, you know. And so all that matters at this point, what these cases shake out to be. Because if these cases shake out to be losses, then UNC looks like a fellow North Carolina resident

Starting point is 00:18:12 and Jay Cole who backed out of the beef early. And everybody's like, ah, good call. You were smart. You know, we all looked at you crazy for deleting your track. But that may be how UNC ends up looking at the end of this if the ACC does prevail in their, what is it, five current lawsuits or four, whatever the case may be. Five because you include the attorney general in Florida, which she's having a tough time now because the three other power conferences kind of join the fight against her because

Starting point is 00:18:42 they don't want that ESPN TV deal to be made public. And I think, you know, one of the fascinating things about the law is there's really no such thing as an ironclad contract, right? I mean, there's always going to be nuances in the law. Like there's a reason why, you know, people from two different political parties care so much about Supreme Court justice appointments, right? I mean, if the law was the law, if it was black and white, you can say it doesn't matter if the justice is conservative or liberal. You interpret it the same way. It's just not how life is, right?

Starting point is 00:19:14 You can have two different sets of lawyers who can look at the same document and see it a different way. And it does seem like, you know, in the case of Florida State and Clemson, the directive that came, you know, to their legal teams were like, okay, we want to get out of this grant of rights, you're going to have to find a way to get us out. Like they didn't approach it. They had a certain conclusion in mind. They didn't really approach it from an objective standpoint where it's like, why don't you take a look at this thing, see if it's breakable, no. The directive was break it.

Starting point is 00:19:41 We want to find a way to break it. And maybe they will. But it's a different approach where like the impression, the impression I got hearing from Miami's athletic director a few months ago was that, you know, they had there because a lot of the magnificent seven over a year ago, those seven schools within the ACC, they all examined the grant of rights. They had to go into that secret chamber, you know, with a chaperone to make sure they didn't take pictures of it or make copies of it. So, you know, Miami was one of those schools that examined the grant of rights. And the impression that I got was, like, they took a look at it.

Starting point is 00:20:17 They didn't really feel like it was breakable that they were, they thought, okay, you know what, we're probably stuck here, right? Whereas, you know, Florida State and Clemson clearly had a different approach where it's like we don't care what it says we're going to break it find a way to break it get us out right yeah and that's i you know i may not be the greatest scientist that ever lived i'm not a guy who dabbles too much in chemistry and all that but i don't believe the scientific method is supposed to work at we have a conclusion go prove it you're supposed to start with a hypothesis and then test that and see whether they're not like science is different from the law right that's very true that's very true that's very

Starting point is 00:20:55 true. That's very true. And, you know, human nature is a social science, which you do sometimes see people go in and say, and even in social sciences, which I'm a major in and all that. That's, that's what I did. Yeah, you still shouldn't work from, hey, we have a conclusion, find a way, but it does happen. And this could be, and again, this is a situation where I understand the urge to do that, right? Because as much as I'm castigating that and saying, hey, that's a bad thing in general, if there were you know what is the gap they say the gap is going to be 30 million dollars per year over the course of 10 years if there was 300 million dollars in my life over on the line you damn right i'd be starting at the conclusion i deserve a 300 million let's find a way to get me a too so i'm not

Starting point is 00:21:39 going to sit up here and pretend like i'm holier than thou and i don't and also and i see it from like florida state side because okay so florida state looks at it and says okay hold on vanderbilt is guaranteed 30 million more per year like vansansansans Does Vanderbilt really deserve an automatic 30 million more per season than we get? Just because they were lucky enough to already be in the SEC where we're in the ACC. I totally understand it. Like the revenue gap, if you're a member of the ACC and you feel like you're just as good or better than some of the brands that are in the power too, why should they automatically

Starting point is 00:22:15 be making more than us? And I get that. And I get that. That's why I, like I said, just a second ago, I'm not going to pretend like if there was that much money on the line for me, I wouldn't care either. I just think that this is, this is going to be, this is going to be a moment where we see, you know, how, how does this thing shake out? And honestly, even after it shakes out, how long will it take for the appeals and the appeals to the appeals and all that? How long will it take for all that to play out? And while that's

Starting point is 00:22:47 playing out, will they be playing under a straining order to where they have to stay in the ACC and the ACC will have to back pay them money for any time that they spent outside of whatever conference they were going to be in or will it be that they're stuck in the ACC and that even if they do get out on an appeal or some backdoor channel, they're like, oh, you're still SOL for the money that you didn't make otherwise. But, you know, this is a very, very interesting case that I feel like it's going to take a lot of turns, but it's going to be very slow and it's going to be very applauding, but, you know, I enjoy folks like Clipson who are like, hey, I know what Ken's talking about in all this time. No, we want to judge Judy's style of court. Bring me the ruling

Starting point is 00:23:29 now. Bring it within the next 30 minutes. J.G. Wentworth. It's my money and I need it now type of deal. I love to see you. Well, you know what I love. I love the fact that college baseball is going to help us shorten a very, very long summer coming up. Heading into the super regionals. What kind of representation does the ACC have? We'll talk about it when we come back. Keep it locked right here on this brand new episode of Locked on ACC. And I already know, my friends, you are keeping it locked to Fanduel because we're winning money this summer. We're having a great time. I've been getting through this month of May. Well, we're in June now, aren't we? Oh, man, I'm getting through May and June with my Florida

Starting point is 00:24:12 Panthers money line bets. They punched their ticket to the Stanley Cup finals. It is winner take all time in the NBA and NHL. Fan Duel's giving you a shot to bring home a big winner of your own. Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $150 to bet on spreads, money lines, player props, and more. Visit fanduel.com slash Lockedon and make every playoff shot count. Fan duel, America's number one sports book. I am Alex Dono from Locked on Cains. He is Kenton Gibbs from Locked on Wolfpack. Thank you so much for making Locked on ACC your first listen and your first watch today. By the way, smash that like button. If you're watching us on YouTube, smash that thumbs up. Make sure you subscribe to

Starting point is 00:25:00 our channel. If you listen to the audio version, make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you get your pods. All right. So Kent, heading into the Super Regional's on the road to Omaha, how's the ACC looking? Who's still in it in college baseball? Well, the ACC is doing fine besides some of our top guns, you know, making some fairly disappointing exits. You know, as much as I'd love to make fun of Wake Forest for them making fun of certain other schools in the conference for losing the VCU and whatnot. They're getting put out by BCU later in the season. Yikes. Greatest this year of all time, maybe.

Starting point is 00:25:33 But so far we have four, potentially five teams that are headed to the Super Regionals, the teams that have already pussed their tickets at the time of this recording. There are the Clemson Tigers and the Florida State Seminoles. So both of the lawsuit babies, going to the baseball equivalent of the Sweet 16. How's the commission Jim Phillips feel about that? He can't be too happy. You know, don't worry. We're going to put it in a call to him, see what our sources.

Starting point is 00:26:01 We can get some type of word out of the ACC's office. And the other two are NC State and UVA. Those are the ones that are confirmed. And at the time of this recording, UNC and LSU are in the bottom of the eighth with LSU of three runs to two. So that game has not reached this conclusion yet. but it is getting near dawn for the Diamond Hills, as they like to call themselves. So, you know, we're looking at four potentially five, but it's looking like we may end up with four teams.

Starting point is 00:26:33 Again, the Super Regionals are the equivalent to the Sweet 16 for baseball. That is the first time that you get a guaranteed series between two teams, and that's it in terms of, like, who moves forward and all that. Because we all know that the first round, the regionals are much more of a round robin type deal where it's a loses bracket, winning the bracket, all that time. of stuff. You don't see that same situation necessarily with the super regionals to the same degree at least. So that's where we are at right now. We got four teams guaranteed locked in at the time of this. It could be five with a little bit of late game heroics by the Diamond Hills, but we shall see. Well, consider me a bandwagon Wolfpack fan for the rest of the way. I'd like to see the pack. They just had the final

Starting point is 00:27:16 four run in basketball. Maybe they can make a college world series run, put something together. You know, AGOs been coaching for forever in a day. He's been coaching since, you know, before you hit puberty since before I was even alive at NC State. And yet, you know, he's still, he's an ACC championship and a national championship has eluded him. Granted, one year, some people say they didn't elude him or it was snatched away from him by some COVID protocols. We are going to discuss that. We have gotten over that. We haven't gotten over that.

Starting point is 00:27:48 I'm a liar. But, you know, we're going to see how this thing shakes out. I'm honestly, I'm rooting for everybody, ACC. I'm rooting for everybody, ACC. I'd love it. I'd love for it to be my pack, hoisting that trophy, and getting Avin what he's been so close to, what he was so close, he could taste,

Starting point is 00:28:05 but it could never quite get for all these years. But, you know, I'd be happy if any ACC team wins it, except for the one that's trailing right now. But any other ACC team, I'm rooting for you. I believe in you, you can do it. Well, we're going to have fun on tomorrow's episode as well, So, and I love Athlon Sports puts this out every year. In fact, I had accidentally sent Kenton a 10-year-old version of this story earlier today.

Starting point is 00:28:32 And you thought I was crazy like that. Donna, this was from like, it was 14. It was from 2012. There is an updated version heading into the 2024 season. Athlon puts this out every year. ACC football coaches speak anonymously about their conference rivals. So you get, the gloves are off. You get a very brutally honest quotes about all the teams that they coach against.

Starting point is 00:28:57 What are they saying about Florida State and NC State and Clemson and Miami and UNC and so on? We're going to talk about that on tomorrow's episode. So, yeah, we will see you guys then on another episode of Lockdown ACCC, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team every day.

Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - Does Clemson Have An Ace Up Their Sleeve Against The ACC? | UNC Lawyered Up Before FSU?

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