Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - Fact or Fiction: ESPN just SAVED The ACC?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Factor fiction. ESPN just literally saved the ACC. You are Locked on ACC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Shout out to the Everydayers and thank you so much for making Locked on ACC, your first listen and your first watch today. We're available free wherever you get your podcast. We're free on YouTube. We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.

Starting point is 00:00:34 He is Kenton Gibbs from Lockdown Wolfpack. I am Alex Dono from Lockdown Cainz. Today's episode is brought to you by Fandual. Super Bowl 59 is here. There's no better way to make every play more exciting than with Fanduals sportsbook. New customers can bet just $5. And if you win, you'll score $200 in bonus bets. Download the at or head to fanduel.com to get started.

Starting point is 00:00:55 On this episode, we'll talk about Duke cruising to a dominant win against Carolina. 11 and 0 now. Who's going to stop the Blue Devils? Florida State men's basketball coach Leonard Hamilton will be stepping down, not immediately, but at the end of the season, we'll talk about why and what that means for the future, for Florida State and ACC basketball. But Kenton Gibbs, you know, we go back to the announcement that came down late last week that ESPN is exercising their option for the final nine years of ACC TV rights,

Starting point is 00:01:29 because that was, you know, they had that look in that was going to expire in. In 2027, they have locked in the ACC TV rights through 2036. So let me phrase the question this way. Did ESPN literally save the ACC from implosion? ESPN saved the ACC in the same way that Beyonce saved Destiny's Child. For those of you who aren't aware of the history, Beyonce blew up with Destiny's Child. She needed Destiny's Child to become who she became later on down the line. So what am I saying here?

Starting point is 00:02:00 This is not a parasitic relationship where the ACC is clinging and begging, please, sir, save us, please. We have nowhere to go. We have nothing to do. ESPN is also making a ton of money off of this deal. Again, ESPN is winning this deal handily. That's what I keep trying to tell everybody. And I feel like Chicken Little screaming the sky is falling.

Starting point is 00:02:25 I feel like I'm on a movie, don't look up because I keep telling everybody, hey, objectively speaking. ESPN won the deal. It's not close. It's not particularly close. So, yes, ESPN did save the ACC. Without ESPN, the ACC goes under. But you know what also happens?

Starting point is 00:02:45 Without the ACC, ESPN loses tens of millions, if not more dollars. And I'll tell you what. One thing about Mickey Mouse, because Disney is the parent company ESPN. Mickey Mouse, they never played about that. He ain't never played about that check. But he came to the Scrillas, the greenbacks, the mullah, it has never. Lots of things have been funny with it with the MCU. Lots of things have been funny with the goofy movie and all that.

Starting point is 00:03:13 You know who didn't love some power trip? But you know what they don't play about? Power line. Donald Davy, Power line, correct. You know what Donald Davy, all them you know they don't play about that check. And ACCC is bringing in heavy checks only to ESPN. So it's not a ESPN. to ACC for no reason thing.

Starting point is 00:03:33 This is a very incentivized saving, if you will. Yeah, I completely agree that both sides need each other. And, you know, ESPN, like, they are locked in to like, you know, old prices, right? I mean, like, can you ever see those, like, old McDonald's menus where, like, a plain hamburger was, like, three cents, you know, back in, like, 1960. It's like ESPN is paying that sort of a bargain price for the ACC, because they locked in that super long grant of rights. So I agree with everything you said.

Starting point is 00:04:03 But I'll add, though, I think the ACC does need ESPN more right now than vice versa. Like they needed ESPN to lock in that option to exercise that option because if ESPN didn't, now not saying there was any reason for them not to. So I'm in agreement with you on that. But had ESPN not exercise that for whatever reason, the grant of rights would essentially be over in 2027 and the conference could do. theoretically implode. And by exercising that option, Kenton, you know what, the ACC, you know what ESPN, I should say gave to the ACC, gave the ACC a little extra leverage.

Starting point is 00:04:39 It gave them some leverage in these lawsuits against Florida State and Clemson, where now there's a lot of momentum to a possible settlement. And whatever settlement takes place, we've heard some of the hypothetical terms, right, the brand initiative where the ACC would actually implement. uneven payouts where if you're a bigger brand and you bring more television ratings like Florida State and Clemson and Miami pulled in big ratings this past year and historically does that and you know North Carolina that you can make more money off of your brand so that's some of the so both sides could frame it as a win Kenton and the ACC would not have that leverage

Starting point is 00:05:22 right now had ESPN not opt in so I'm going to say it's fact that ESPN just saved the ACC. I agree. ESPN does not need the agency in the way the ACC needs ESPN. I thousand percent agree to that. 1000 percent. What I'm saying is that ESPN also gains a ton from this. This is not charity work that ESPN is doing. Disney ain't in the business of charity. That just ain't what's going on there. But I've got Disney World annual passes and I guarantee you they are not in it for charity. Exactly. But I want to dig into something you said there. This is giving. the ACC leverage for a settlement. Why would you settle if you're the ACC? Wow.

Starting point is 00:06:03 For what reason? And I very genuinely mean this. And I'd love to have Rohan law and after because this is a very different situation than the last time we chatted with him. So don't worry. Rohan, we go get a call, brother. Keep your line over there. But in all seriousness, I sit here and I wonder if I'm the ACC,

Starting point is 00:06:22 I say your biggest point of contention was there is not any guarantee of payout beyond the year of 2027. Well, lookie here. What just happened, Donnell? What did this extension of, or what did this picking up of the option to extend do for the ACC? What does it officially say? There is now a formalized payment structure in place.

Starting point is 00:06:49 And if that's the crux of the argument, hey, there is no formalized payer. Or if that's one of the cruxes of the argument, let's do it. Let's go Duke. You were real tough when you were coming off of a college football playoff snub. I think some two and ten may have taken the teeth out of you a little bit, but maybe it didn't.

Starting point is 00:07:09 Maybe even in this down year, which I have not looked at the numbers yet. So this is, I am genuinely inquiring not being facetious here. Maybe Florida State, even during a down year, still did better numbers than everybody else by them out. That's possible. Not everybody else. They did better numbers, though, than most.

Starting point is 00:07:26 even in a down year. I'm sure a lot of that was probably earlier in the season before, you know, the secret was out as to, you know, how bad they were, but they still put up good numbers. But so what I'm saying here is if I'm the ACC and one of the legs of your argument has just been taken from up under you, right? I'm not saying go full, Cobra Kai sweep the leg here, because we all know that didn't end well.

Starting point is 00:07:53 Daniel's song got his win. but what I would say, what I would say is, hey, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's take this thing all the way. You bought me all the way up out of court. You don't woke me up now. I'm not going back to sleep until a judge decides this thing. Me and you, we're not going to have that conversation.

Starting point is 00:08:13 Oh, we're friends. We agree. No, dog. Because if this had gone the other way, y'all would have happily headed for the heels. If this had gone the other way, both Clemson and Florida, state would be happily saying, where's the nearest exit? Let me get my hands up out of here. Me and my, let me grab my good jacket. Me and my crew leaving. So if it, if the, if the contract situation works in the ACCs, baby, I'm absolutely saying. Well, well, well, well. When we come back,

Starting point is 00:08:46 I want to offer a rebuttal on why, why the ACC would and probably does want to settle. You want to keep it locked right here, my friends. We're only getting started on this brand. new episode of LockdowneACC. We're only get started with Fanduel. This is literally Super Bowl week for Fanduel because we have that coming up, my friend. Super Bowl 59 is here. One game, two teams, the Chiefs and Eagles, endless possibilities. There's no better way to make every play more exciting than with Fandual Sportsbook.

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Starting point is 00:10:20 Kenton, Gibbs, and Grayson Boone, host Lockedon Wolfpack, covering everything NC State. I cover everything Miami on Locked on Cains. All right, so let me play devil's advocate, Kenton, as to why the ACC would likely want to settle. Now, I will note that not Kenton nor I or any of you listening to this have actually seen or read through the ACC's grant of rights agreements. They keep it under lock and key, right? Maybe if you select lawyers have taken a look at it and they can't make copies of it.

Starting point is 00:10:50 They have to put it back in the vault and they can't take pictures of or anything like that. So like, okay, if we operate under the assumption that the grants of rights is completely ironclad, then I would say, yeah, ACC by all means. not settle. You know, you could point out, yeah, you, Florida State, Clemson, UNC, Miami, you all signed this thing. You're legally bound to it. If I make that assumption that the grant of rights is ironclad, then I would say ACC, by all means, fight tooth and nail to protect yourselves from these disruptive members of your conference. But, I mean, if you look at it from the ACC point of view, even if they do feel like the grant of rights is ironclad, Rohan law has told us before Kenton. A really good lawyer can find holes in just about anything. And it's going to be one side of

Starting point is 00:11:37 lawyers versus the other. So the ACC would probably rather this thing not go to discovery and not have their grant of rights out in the open. Not to mention if this does go to discovery, we had this conversation with Brett Friedlander last week. There's probably going to be a lot of what the ACC feels like is privileged information about how their TV contracts are done that would be out in the open. So I think they would much prefer this settles quietly. And for the other side as well, this goes for both sides. You're paying these lawyers a lot of money, right? And that goes for the Florida State and Clemson sides as well as the ACC. That's more incentive for both sides to settle, even if maybe the ACC might feel like they could win the war of attrition or maybe Florida

Starting point is 00:12:16 State feels that way. I think there is interest to settle for that reason. And then, you know, another thing, Kenton, and this is kind of a sidebar, but we talked about this a little bit on Friedlander Friday last week. that this is more of something that the ACC has to lose, so you can comment on this. Maybe this is something they shouldn't give up in the settlement, but there was talk in the ESPN report that part of the settlement could be drastically decreasing the conference buyout in 2031,

Starting point is 00:12:46 which would then make it a lot more cost feasible for Florida State and Clemson to get out that maybe they shouldn't include that part in the settlement, because then the ACC, which may have been temporarily saved by ESPN, might die in six years rather than in a year and a half, two years. Again, why? Why? And I hear the argument that, hey, these are trade secrets that you don't want to get out. And how much of those secrets worth? For example, Dono, if somebody, we all know, Alex Donno is a good man.

Starting point is 00:13:21 He's one of the best around, right? but let's just say somebody had pictures of you from St. Paddy's Day a few years ago, been a little more salacious than your family would want to see you, right? And they were to say, hey, Alex, give us $100,000 for these pictures hit the Internet. I'm guessing, I don't know your personal finances, but I'm guessing you would say, oh, to hell with that, let those pictures hit the net. Do what you got to do, baby. Oh, whatever I did on that bar crawl, bar crawl, let it out to the world, right?

Starting point is 00:13:52 How much are these secrets worth to the ACC? If anything, ESPN needs to step in and take part of that. Because remember, when the first lawsuit was filed by, I believe, it was the district attorney or the attorney general in Florida, it was to get the grant of rights out to the public so people can see it. And ESPN came out and said, those are trade secrets on how we do things. And again, like I said, Mickey play about many things, but the green has never been one of them. Ain't not Mary a ha-ha, a kiki, a ball, a 3D graphic chip, none of them is to be found when it comes to the money. So if this is something that I'm looking at and saying, you know what, I don't want this, the information on how we do this deal to get out to the public, that's fine.

Starting point is 00:14:45 But is that worth potentially settling for all the things that you're discussing, Donald? Is keeping those secrets under lock and key worth saying, you know what? We got five years before this thing all goes up and smoke. Or five years before we become basically a group of five conference to turn into group of six. Right. Is it worth that to you? If it is, if there are something, if there are things in those, if there are secrets in that contract is like that, how the hell did anybody even agree this contract to begin with?

Starting point is 00:15:15 Number one. Number two, I, you got to. You've got a lot of explaining to do to tell me that there's secrets in there. There's information in there that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Because that's what we're talking about right now. You talk about a buyout difference between 2036 and 231 for two teams. So that's 10 years worth of buyout for two teams. Even if the buyout was only $20 million per year per team, that's $200 million.

Starting point is 00:15:46 And you're telling me that your secrets are worth. more than a fifth of a billion? What the hell type of secret job, yeah. That's well put. Now, something, I want to circle back to ESPN for a second because, you know, we mentioned, you know, ESPN, of course, they have the ACC on a cheap deal by today's standards, right? I mean, this is a great value deal for ESPN. Here's another thing that I've been thinking about from the ESPN point of view on why they really had to exercise this option, right? And again, we've seen over the past year a ton of speculation. And the rumor mill has been churning about how maybe, hey, if Florida State and Clemson,

Starting point is 00:16:30 if and when they leave the ACC, that the Big Ten is the most likely landing spot. Now, others put more stock into those rumors than Kenton and I. Kent and I have been a little bit more. We don't take everything at face value. We like to question things, okay? But if there is any truth to that, that if Florida State and Clemson get out, that they're more likely to land in the Big Ten, and a big part of that is the Big Ten would like to expand their footprint to the southeast,

Starting point is 00:16:55 right? Whereas the SEC, they already have a footprint in South Carolina, and they already have a footprint in Florida. So maybe the Big Ten is the more likely destination. The ACC, they hold SEC, or sorry, ESPN holds SEC and ACC media rights, but the Big Ten meteor rights belong to Fox. So ESPN is also protecting themselves, Kenton, because Florida State and Clemson are big-time brands.

Starting point is 00:17:20 And if there is any truth to, hey, if they leave in a year or two, they're going over to Fox. That's another L for ESPN. So this is another reason why ESPN, to go back to your original point, why they really needed to exercise this option. Absolutely. This is the cheapest option for ESPN. Think about it this way. Even it, let's say you let it dissolve, you let it blow up, whatever the case may be. What then happens when the SEC comes back and says, actually, we have Florida State

Starting point is 00:17:47 in Clemson now. The price needs to go up. What happens? You got to meet them there. You got to meet them. And that's the best case scenario. That's not even a worst case scenario. What if they take their tail over the Fox and you lose them outright? So it was the cheapest option for ESPN to say, you know what, we'll keep the band together on this sweetheart there that we got over here. Because like I have been saying from the beginning, if the ACC was a situation where ESPN was losing money, I could easily see, oh yeah, this doesn't make sense. This is the sweetheart deal for ESPN. They've got the, you know, they've got the Matilda's dad deal on this thing,

Starting point is 00:18:29 meaning they're Matilda's dad selling the ACC, the car. And the ACC bought it hookline and sinker, regardless of if it was a limit or not, it was a limit that kept everybody together. That's what the ACC is looking at. So in terms of ESPN and keeping these two teams away from Fox, It's not just about keeping away from Fox. It's about keeping SEC away from the negotiate table saying,

Starting point is 00:18:52 actually, we just added about X amount, million viewers more per season. In the words of one fat joke, yesterday's price is not today's price. The deal that we agreed to before, we may need to rework that. We may need to figure that out a little differently. So, again, keeping the band together was ESPN's easiest play, the most obvious play and the correct play. Coming up next, Duke, dominant again, 11 and O now in the ACC, and Florida State's basketball coach is going to be riding off into the sunset.

Starting point is 00:19:29 Keep it locked right here on Locked on ACC. Thank you so much for making Locked on ACC your first listen and your first watch today. We're available free wherever you get your podcast. We're free on YouTube. We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. For your next listen, make sure you check out Locked on college football. our guys our guy Spencer McLaughlin does a fantastic job taking through all the big games and all the big storylines and all the big offseason stuff NIL transfer portal all that stuff that keeps us busy this time of year talking some hoops here though on locked on ACC so announced today Leonard Hamilton who's been at Florida State for 23 years Kenton so he has put in that tenure at Florida State also you know spend some time at my alma mater Miami prior to to a run at the NBA. Leonard Hamilton is going to be walking away from Florida State.

Starting point is 00:20:28 He will resign at the end of the year after 23 years in Tallahassee. He's 76 years old. Now, worth noting that he is in the final season of a five-year extension. So I don't exactly know whose decision it was for him to walk away, but he gets to be the one to go out, Kenton, on his own terms. This feels a little bit like one of those handshake agreements, you know? like this feels like one of those moments where everybody agrees, hey, we're not going to have you back. And it's like, all right, cool.

Starting point is 00:20:57 Let me go out on my own terms and, you know, or let me go out in a way that is more dignified than being fired. It just happened a lot more cleanly than, let's say, the Jim Beheim situation went down per se where it was like, oh, he's retiring. No, I'm not and all that type of stuff. But seriously, Coach Ham has had an illustrious story. You know, it's, it's,

Starting point is 00:21:19 There is no if, ands or buts about that. It is, and I'll tell you this much, he's leaving without leaving his team in the lurch, which I think is commendable. Everybody cannot say that. I'm looking at you, Tony Bennett. I'm looking at you, Lornega. He left in a way to say, you know what, this ain't it no more. And, you know, you and I talk about this off here, but I'm going to talk about it on there. Are the lawsuits part of this with the six players soon?

Starting point is 00:21:48 maybe, maybe not. But I think that this is more so a situation where regardless of even if those lawsuits had not been on the tape, I don't think that he's in a position with the university where they say, you're the best we can do. And therefore, we're going to rock with you regardless.

Starting point is 00:22:06 I don't think the university is there with him anymore. But again, hell of a career. You know, he's put together one of the more impressive resumes of coaching. And I will say this. Some people may get mad at me for this, but I'm going to say it. I think he's a Hall of Very

Starting point is 00:22:22 Good coach. I wouldn't say Hall of Fame. I wouldn't say he's to that level. Maybe the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame, because you know the Basketball Hall of Fame, you sneeze enough on the basketball court. You might mess around and end up there. But in terms of like college basketball Hall of Fame, I'm not necessarily

Starting point is 00:22:38 sure, but he is, again, a Hall of Very Good guy. You look at the story of ACC basketball and you can write it, but it's tough. to try to not mention Linder Hamilton over the past few decades. Well, I've got his resume here. And it's like, like you said, it's like, it's very good, but like borderline great, in my opinion.

Starting point is 00:23:00 You tell me if I'm wrong, because here's here's Coach Ham's resume. You got the Florida state stuff and the overall stuff. As Florida state head coach, this is per the Tallahassee Democrat newspaper, Hamilton has compiled an overall record of 434 and 290. So 434 wins, 290 losses, including a 1,000. 196 and 186 record in ACC regular season games. He's led the Seminoles to 16 postseason appearances in 23 years and 12, 20 wins seasons. He is currently, though, Kenton, again, this is like very good, but this is active.

Starting point is 00:23:36 He's currently 10th on the NCAA's list of winningest active Division I coaches, fifth all time in the ACC behind Coach K, Roy Williams, and Dean Smith at North Carolina. Carolina and Gary Williams of Maryland. Hamilton is the longest tenured men's basketball coach currently in the ACC second oldest active division one coach. So there's a lot of very good in the resume, but I agree with you. It's not like, it's not necessarily Hall of Fame stuff, but it's very good. Yeah. Yeah. Again, you can't argue Florida State basketball is a better place because of him than it was. Oh, yeah, it's a great point. You cannot argue that. And again, that does not make All the Famer, but it does deserve a ton of respect.

Starting point is 00:24:19 It does. Leaving any program better than you found it, that is the goal, more so than anything else, right? Everybody said, oh, national championship. I want national championship. You got to win me national championship. How many schools have won national championships in football or basketball? Right. Yeah, not, not mad.

Starting point is 00:24:36 You notice a lot of the same teams tend to win a lot of people. Over and over and over again. Time is a flat circle, ladies and gentlemen. And you look up and it's the same teams over and over again. So you look through that and you say, did Leonard Hamilton leave Florida State Barrett and he found? Yes. You look through that and you say,

Starting point is 00:24:56 is he tenured because it was just like a long run of men and Florida State would tolerate men? No. He has objectively been pretty damn good. Again, how many postseason appearances in 23 years? 16? 16. Come on now.

Starting point is 00:25:11 Come on now. For every three years, he was making a post-a-old. season and two of them. I think that's pretty good. I think you're doing all right for yourself, especially in a conference that has multiple basketball blue bloods in it. You know, this, again, shout out to

Starting point is 00:25:27 him. Congratulations on the great career, man. You know, what a guy. And again, to not do it the way that some others have and just step down and say, hey, the ship is sinking I'm getting off. I'm done now. It is

Starting point is 00:25:43 truly committed. You know what is not borderline, but it is absolutely great is what Duke has done so far in ACC play. And they steamrolled the tar heels over the weekend, Kenton. I mean, we thought we thought they'd pull away, but it would be maybe a closer game. And maybe UNC would cover 13 and a half point deficit. Now, Duke wins 87 to 70. That included 21 points, eight rebounds, seven assists from Cooper Flagg. con canipal scored 22 points for duke duke shot 52.8% in the game they had a 23 to 6 lead early on in the game they had a 16 and a run early on it wasn't much of a game but man it it certainly was a display for duke who improves to 11 and oh in acc play we've been wondering kenton we talked about this last week are they going to go undefeated in the conference this is i still think they'll probably have an off night and trip up somewhere but that

Starting point is 00:26:42 day was not Saturday. Wow, what a game. What a game by that Duke squad, man. Wow, they really laid it on North Carolina thick there. I'll tell you what. If that game was a day later, I'd start thinking some things about Cooper Flag for doing that during Black History Month.

Starting point is 00:27:00 But in all seriousness, that was an absolute domination by that team. And more so than anything else, not even being able to see it's not even joking. Because as much as I like to. riff on the Dirty Foot Club, you can't bring Hubert Davis back. You can't. Unless they go on some majestic type of run to end this season, you can't bring this man back.

Starting point is 00:27:24 Your alleged most heated rival has shown you up. It wasn't like this was like a, like Donald said, this was at no point a game, 23 to 6 from the beginning. This was never from tip-off. This was, you know, I can't remember the movie, but I remember the quote, this won't be a war. A war implies that both sides have a chance of winning. This will be an annihilation.

Starting point is 00:27:53 That's what this was. Straight belt to be high from the tip-off. And I'll tell you what, UNC, pour your pants up, lick your wounds, get rid of your coach, get somebody new, and get somebody from outside of this UNC coaching family thing that you got going on. Something from outside is the answer. You have all of the resources you need. You have all of the history that you need to be great at basketball from a ton of different standpoint. You being shown up like this, it's just objectively speaking, in terms of basketball is beneath you. Go get you a new coach. I co-signed. I want to thank everyone for taking time

Starting point is 00:28:34 to tune in to Lockdown ACC. Make sure you follow us. Check out Kent and Gibbs at Lockdown, Puck, follow him at TGIF underscore Kenton on X. Check me out on Locked on Cains. Follow me at Locked on Caines. We'll have the squad later on this week. Here's a topic, Kenton I want to get into later this week. You know, it always comes back to football for us. But players who really, really have something to prove next year in the ACC. Because you got a lot of returning players, Kenton, who are maybe on teams that are in the mix to win the conference. Who's got something to prove? next year. We'll have that for you later this week. You want to keep it locked right here. We'll talk to you next time on another episode of LockdowneACC. We're part of the awesome lockdown podcast network. Your team every day.

Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - Fact or Fiction: ESPN just SAVED The ACC?

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