Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - How Good is Fran Brown?

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

In this episode, Kenton and Jackson Holzer discuss the optimism springing around Syracuse football. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey there, ladies and gentlemen, how are we doing? It is locked on ACC, and it's our Friday episode. And normally, we like to dabble in a little bit of Fan Friday. We like to, you know, get the fans in this thing. But I'm celebrating a little bit of new blood in the locked on family. I'm celebrating. I can't wait, Kenton. I'm celebrating the return of Locked on Syracuse.

Anybody who knows me, no. I love. I love. I love me. Syracuse, especially in terms of AJ school and all that. And we have one of the folks who I know is going to be an illustrious alum of Newhouse in no time. My main man, Jackson, Hozer. How you doing, bro?

I'm doing great. How are you? Oh, I'm great as always. Now, I just got into adding you to Lockhart, but we got to talk about Syracuse football and Coach Frey. Syracuse basketball said, hey, Behan. It's been real. It's been fun. It's been lots of decades.

Natty in there. things, Carmelo Evan, but we got to move on. And now we're going to talk about adding in new coaches and even losing some players in the process in terms of what Syracuse is doing at the coaching ranks. You're ready to talk about it, Jackson? Of course. All righty. Well, let's get into it on today's episode of Locked on ACC.

Because we're going to talk that, but we're also going to talk whether or not you think this conference is heading in the new direction or not. In just a second on Locked on ACC, folks. You are Locked on ACC. your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. First things first, today's episode is bought to you by Fandu.

Folks, it is very simple. If you make every moment more, Fandul is the place to do it. New customers can join the day, and you'll get $200 in bonus bets if your first bet of $5 or more hits. So visit Fanduil.com slash locked on to get started.

again, a $5 winning bet, get your $200 in bonus bets. Jackson, how you doing, man? We recorded recently. That was our first time chatting a little did I know. Little did I know. This was going to be the start of something beautiful. How are you doing, Jackson? I'm doing great.

So, yeah, quick backstory. I'm with W.A.R. sports, and I was working on a piece about Florida State and potentially leaving the conference. And lo and behold, I interviewed you about it. And then I sent you the piece afterwards, and I was really appreciative of it. Oh, absolutely. I was appreciative it as well, but now I'm interviewing you. You want to see because you know Syracuse as well as anybody, right?

And so we've got to get into some of these recent culture changes because I'm going to tell you, if I'm looking at Syracuse from the outside end, there's a lot of room for optimism. There's a lot of reason for optimism, even through some waters started looking a little bumpy in certain regards. I still think there's room to be excited. So let's start with where all of the optimism starts, the hometown kid coming back and coach Fran being the guy at Syracuse. First thing first, give me a grade on that hire. Give me what you would grade that higher. Before he's coached the game, I know this is hard, right?

Because you could look like the donkey in a day if you're like A plus and then he goes on the way three games. But just based off what you know about, tell me what you grade the higher so far. I would give it an A minus. I would go up to there because the only thing that holds me back on him is that he's never been a head coach and that he's coming from Georgia and he was a defensive backs coach. So that transition to a head coach is kind of difficult. So that weighs him down a little bit, but not too much. I mean, he's the number one recruiter in the country.

24-7 sports just named him the number one guy at Georgia. And you think about it, you can say it's Georgia. He's still competing with those guys at Alabama. Absolutely. Competing with Texas. All those other schools. And he was the best recruiter. And so far since he has gotten here, the reason why there is so much optimism is because Syracuse went from a team that can't recruit at all.

Transfer Portal, high school guys can't get anyone with Dino Babers in eight years. could not get anyone. Fran Brown comes in and brings in Kyle McCord from Ohio State, whose greatest crime he committed at Ohio State is he is not a first round NFL talent quarterback. Whoopty do. You can do better. You can't do much better in college football than Kyle McCourt. He brings him in, gets multiple four-star recruits to come on board within a month of him being hired. So there's a reason why there is a lot of optimism with Fran Brown. Also, He's fantastic with the media. He crushed his opening press conference.

Absolutely. He crushed it, which compared to Coach Babers about eight years ago or so. Yeah. It wasn't very good when he told everyone to close your eyes and picture Orange is the new fast. Fran Brown, he seems very composed, very relaxed. He understands what he's getting into. He's already elevated the program. And now it's just about can he go out, can he be a head coach,

and can he win football games? Yeah, and you know, I tell people all the time, if you can win on the couch, that'll lead to wins on the field, right? If you can go convince mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, uncle Lanti, whoever, hey, give me your son for the next four years or three years or two years, you know, the transfer portal, things are crazy.

Now, give me your last year of eligibility and I'll turn into something special for you. If you can win that battle, I mean, it naturally is going to lead to winning on the field. Because how many guys do we think of, especially in the position of a Syracuse, right? Where historically speaking, football-wise, you're not the Kramer of the crowd. But you now have a guy who can do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

People underestimate Syracuse's history of football. Obviously, in the 50s and 60s, that was their height. But still in the mid-80s and in the 90s, they still had some really, really good years. It's just lately for Syracuse, it's been really big. bad and so now i don't think we're asking we're not asking fram brown can you be the best team in the country restore what it was like in 1957 whatever with jim brown right we're asking fram brown can this team win eight games year in and year out right can you be that like upper tier team going to play in a good bowl game and occasionally occasionally have that spike year where they're in

the college football playoff, especially since it's expanded in 12 teams. He makes it in there once every six, seven years. Or obviously, I don't know if he'll be there for here for seven years. Right, right. If you have that occasional spike year, I think people would be happy about that. You know, I've always said the same thing in terms of, I remember when Dan Wilkin came out that quote about Dave Doran, and he said, NC State just showed if you can win a game consistently, you'll get a contract there forever. And I'm like, brother, I don't know if you meant

that as an insult or not, but at 95% of schools around the country, that's pretty much the ask. Like if you can win eight games a year at most of these places, you're just fine there. And I'm sure forever Orange Girl, one of our regulars is gushing over here and this right now, because the thought of Syracuse being that perennial eight win with a potential spike year here and they're very excite. And I didn't mean an offender when I said, hey, you know, a team like Syracuse to have to recruit because I look at it like this, I look at it like this, right? If you think in teams like that, like across the power five, right, that are kind of in that, you know, that tier of the power five that most people call me, right? But they get a really good recruiter.

How often does it not work out for them? You sure what I'm saying? Like the not, like the getting the X and O guy, the getting the X and O guy, I see that not work out a lot because you have to have the talent, especially at the power five level. You can't X and O your way out of that guy runs a 4-4. My receiver runs a 4-6. He's not going to get open. You get what I'm saying? And so when you get the recruiter, I'm just saying it puts you in a better position.

Those are generally the guys that you see like that. Oh, man, hey, we're woping the whiz out of everybody out of nowhere. What happened? This guy, the recruiter came in. So I see the optimism there. So let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. I know that there's optimism.

I know Kyle McCor, you said his only crime is not being the first rounder. I disagree. Losing that school up north. That's the real crime, right? You lose to Michigan. They really going to get you out of there. But I say that to say. You know what?

C.J. Stroud also lost to Michigan. And I was just about to say. I say that to say, he ain't the only going to commit to that crime now. CJ Strzschilder. We're getting in the MVP conversation. He committed that crime too. And then you bring in a bunch of guys that like you talk about. former four stars, guys that are highly touted, guys that are blue chip prospects, all those good things.

Let me ask you this. We know how tough first years can be, especially for a first time ever head coach. Give me your way too soon, 2024 prediction for that team. If you had to peg it right now, if you had to go put something down on an old fan, dude, what's your talk? Seven and five. Seven and five. Seven is aggressive. Seven is aggressive. I don't think seven and five is aggressive. I think actually people would call me a little bit of pessimists for it.

Really? And it's because I don't know if Fran Brown can coach. And one of the problems with Syracuse over the years has not been their front line talent. They've actually had a decent number of frontline talent. They've had Sean Tucker, who's in the NFL right now. Matthew Bergeron was a second round lineman. Garrett Trader, pretty decent college quarterback. A Ronde Gadsden, all-conference tight-eds.

Freak. Great player, right? But here's the problem. When Syracuse loses a guy, either in the offseason or in this case, or in case of Gadsden, during the season due to an injury, they can't replace them. So it comes down to depth. And when you look at Syracuse's depth versus every other team's depth, it's still towards the bottom because you can't ask their great high school or Syracuse's version of great high school class to be fantastic as true freshmen. So the transfers coming in now are going to be the starters. If someone gets hurt and it's football, I don't know.

It's again, we're going to be one of those things where building depth is going to be so difficult. So if someone goes down, that's important, it's going to lead to more losses than people think. So I would say seven. I think the mood around campus is eight to nine, to be completely honest with you. I don't think some people are going out and saying college football, playoff because everyone's excited. It's 12 teams now. But very few, but there are people who think that. 10 wins would be, I think everyone would throw a parade if they won 10 games. I'm going to say seven, though. I'm going to stick with seven. You know what? I'll say this. The reason I say

you're being aggressive is because, again, first time ever head coach, you know, that's a, that's a good, but I will say this. They do have a favorable schedule. They do have a very favorable schedule in 2024 that works out to where if I were to have a first time head coach listen I get it if you're in year 10 or 11 with that schedule and you're like hey you need to win seven but if I got the first time ever here coach hey this is your training wheels here brother we're going to do our best to just make sure that the wheels don't fall off this thing and and will be all right from there but now we got to talk about something that's you know the waters haven't been so smooth as of lately right we're going to talk about some

You're talking about an in-season injury. We got some in-season departures going on on the hardwood. So we're going to trade over to talk about that in just a second. Folks, before we do talk about that, I've got to talk to you all about America's number one sports book. It's Fandu, baby. You already know what it is. Let's make this thing very clear, okay?

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So now we've got to talk about this basketball team, which I think, with all due respect, in year one, and you can tell me if I'm wrong here. I think they're about meeting expectations for what most people had them peg dads in the post-Bayheim era. But we just saw the departure of Benny Williams. You know, this team has been up and down all year. How are you personally feeling about the team? And then tell me, what's the sentiment around campus, around media, around the fan base for this team? Okay. Well, first I'm going to address the expectations part. And I think for most people this season, in a roundabout way, it's kind of meeting expectations. They're middle of the pack in the ACC. I think the optimists wanted them to be on the tournament bubble. The pessimists thought that there's no chance that they'll ever be on the tournament bubble this season. And then there was most people in the middle who were like, maybe if everything breaks right.

it still doesn't feel very good. Right. Of course. It still doesn't feel very good. And I don't think people on campus are very happy because the class that is going to be graduating next year at Syracuse. If the team doesn't, assuming that they don't make the tournament this year, right? Because they probably won't, barring, they win the conference. Right.

Or they go on some miracle run to the end of the season. they beat North Carolina, they beat Clemson twice, all that fun jazz. The class of Syracuse 2025, if they don't make it next year, is going to go their entire college lives without seeing this team in the tournament. Which sounds kind of crazy. For Syracuse, that sounds crazy. And you're ready for this? It is crazy because the last time that happened was 1972.

That's the last time. that Syracuse went at least four years without making the tournament. So imagine you've grown up your whole life. You're 18 years old. You're going to college. You're going to Syracuse. What have you heard? They're a basketball school.

Yeah. For basketball. Known for the zone. Is everything in college basketball. And you go four years, your entire four-year college life, without experience it once. Not one time as a student, that sucks. So barring a miracle run and a great turnaround for next year, that could happen. Gen Z has ruined yet another thing.

You heard it here first. They've taken down Syracuse basketball, which ain't missed it for years in 50 years. Even if you're one of the older folks who's going back to college and pursuing a degree after, you know, a pivoted life, you probably ain't seen Syracuse not make the tournament four years straight. And yet, here we are with that being a reality. So let me ask you this. In terms of this team and kind of the, how should I say this, the expectations for next year or the faith that you have in your head coach, let's go there, the faith that you have in the new head coach here,

what does that feel like? Because I know Behan's departure, like, yes, it was better than the departure at Notre Dame with their head coach. but this wasn't exactly a pretty one either, right? It wasn't exactly Coach Kay in his farewell tour, Roy Williams and kissing the floor on the way out and all that. This wasn't that. So tell me what that transition has felt like for fans a little bit

in seeing, hey, this is our new guy. Do we have faith? Do we not have faith? What does that look like? Well, the transition was odd to say the least because Beheim originally said that he had full control. Then the team announced that they had essentially said, that he was no longer going to be the coach.

And then afterwards, Beheim said that he retired. So it was all within a span of an hour. So it was weird. It's tough to say I have so much faith in Coach Autry. I don't think he's done a bad job per se. And by the way, like, I think he had a massive hand on the dismissal of Benny Williams, which we can get to after this. As far as the turnaround, look, they have Donnie Freeman coming in.

He's a five-star recruit, one of the highest recruits in the last 10 years. for Syracuse. If you can get a big transfer class coming in as well and get a couple returners that are actually important, Judah Mints, J.J. Stirling, those guys, Quarthur O'Hoplin's a great bench player for them. Maybe they can't get their way back into the tournament. And I think that would be the expectation for next season with Coach Autry. Most people are willing to give him this year as a pass.

Point blank, it's a pass. You get the free Mulligan year. but next year, it's your show now. There's no Beheim shadow, nothing. He has to deliver next season. They, at minimum, have to be in the tournament. At minimum. And it's possible.

The blueprint is there. Coach Felicia Leggett Jack with the women's basketball team took over a program in much worse state than Coach O'Hontry had to deal with this year. It was much worse with that. Shammels. Truly shambles. Awful.

Last year, they make the NIT tournament. So already tremendous progress. And then this year, they're looking at being around a six, a five, six seed in the NCAA tournament, like the real one. They're actually going to be a team that's a factor in March. Yeah. It took two years. So Coach Autry, if Coach FLJ can do it, you can do it too. And not to mention the women's side, with all due respect to the men, the women's side of this thing, much tougher.

It's an absolute gondly. One night you could play the one of the national player of the year candidates in Elizabeth Kidley, and then the night after that, you run up into a perennial top ten program in NC State, and then the night after that, you run into Daisy Kelly at UNC, and then the night after, you know, it just, the hits just keep on rolling. Oh, I got Jeff Walls and the great defensive bind that he is over there lurking in the shadows, too. And yet that team, I believe they were in front of the ACC for a bit to start the season here. So, you know, you've made a good point there.

But talk about the curious case of Benny Williams. What has going on? Because we've touched on it. We've alluded to it. You've got the inside school. Let me know what's going on with Benny. So the backstory with Benny was he came to Syracuse class of, it was a couple years ago.

He was a freshman. He was the only freshman on the team. It was more of a veteran team with Buddy Beehme's last year, Jimmy Beehime transfer. Cole Swider was a transfer from Villanova. There's a veteran team that underachieved. They went under 500 for the first time in a billion years. And he didn't play much of a factor that year,

kind of a red shirt but not an official red shirt. He was expected to take a big step forward his sophomore year. Didn't really do that. He was pretty disappointing. And then this year, it's year three, man. Year three. This is it, right? Yeah.

And he can't even crack the starting lineup. He couldn't do it. So in the beginning of the season, he was suspended from the team for a, what they called a violation of team rules. They didn't elaborate on that at all. There could be anything. Violation of team rules, it could literally, yeah, exactly,

it could mean anything. He was suspended for an exhibition game and two regular season games. And then Coach Autry says afterwards, you know, everything's good, right? Then in the Wake Forest game, which was maybe their most disappointing game of the season. You lose by 29 on the road to Wake Forest.

It was a good team, but 29. 29, you really give up 100 points. Wake Forest at 60%. It was an awful game. It was pathetic to watch them out there. At the end of the first half, Benny gets called for a technical foul, which was a dumb one.

He threw the ball on the other side of the cord instead of throwing to the ref. That's an easy tech every single time. And then he, he, he, I'm trying to mimic it here. He bumps, he bumps coach Autry as he's, as he's walking to the bench. And you can be the judge, whether it was intentional or not. I'm going to go right here and say, I think it was intentional. Right. Okay.

You don't just accidentally bump into someone with your head down like this. Like you can see what's in front of you. And you're clearly frustrated. So I think he kind of had that moment of insanity where you just, you just can't do that. And then two days later, it was announced that he was dismissed from the team. Again, Syracuse did not give a reason why he was dismissed from the team. Yeah. But you can kind of connect the dots.

That's the standard. We all wish him well. He's an underachieving player. So you can't give the star player excuse. Underachieving, so he's not really needed. He has had multiple instances this year. And he just shoulder check the coach. Yeah, yeah.

You never don't get away with a hip check if you're not a star player. It's just not. No, I said it. It's kind of like the Jimmy Johnson scale. Like the better player you are and the harder you work, the more leeway you're going to get. So Judah Minch shoulder checks Adrian Autry. Maybe he gets suspended. Judah Mince had a violation of team rules earlier this season and missed the first 10 minutes.

He didn't start and played the final third. Now, I don't know if it was the same incident, but again, star player Judah Mintz, you commit a crime or not really a crime, but you break a rule. This is your punishment. it's going to be different for Benny Williams. A little slap on the wrist there. A little slap on the wrist as opposed to a firm kicking the behind. I got you. I got you.

Okay. Well, it sounds like Coach Autry is doing what it takes to keep this team together. But you and I are going to rehash what our first conversation was about in terms of will the ACC be keeping a band together. Stick right with us, folks. So again, I got my main man Jackson Hoser on the show from Locked on Syracuse. Again, locked on Syracuse. again, locked on Syracuse's back, baby. We got one of the best basketball schools, one of the best coach Frangis now saying

they're going to be a football school too. In the conference, we got them back. We got my main man Jackson in the building. Now, let me ask you this, because you and I spoke about it, and I did most of the answer to it. Well, it's your turn. It's your turn. What do you think is going to happen with the ACC with this conversation surrounding Florida State with the lawsuit, counter suit, back and forth in court?

UNC's looking around. I'm hearing Clems is looking right. Tell me what you're thinking in terms of the future of the ACC, both short term and long term. There's many different ways we can go with that. Absolutely. What I'll say is I don't think the ACC's going anywhere. They just expanded.

And with that contract, you know, no one's ever read this contract. But at the end of the day, from what I have been told and what I have researched, they can't get out of it. If they could get out of it, they would have done it by now. And on top of that, not only are they going to have to pay this $500 plus million fee to leave, but then these other schools would then have to find a conference that will want them. And it's what you said when we discussed this earlier, which is they need to add more so that the pie gets bigger for everyone, not that they're mooching.

Right. So how many schools in the ACC can do that? I don't know. When Maryland left, they left for like 50 million. So them going to the Big Ten, it was nothing for them. These other schools, they're not leaving. As far as Syracuse, if Florida State isn't poning up the money, if Clemson isn't poning up the money, if North Carolina isn't doing it, Duke isn't doing it. Syracuse ain't doing it. There's no way they would do it. They don't have that. They're trying to keep up with NIL right now. They have no desire to want to pay a $500-plus million-dollar exit fee to leave the conference. It would boggle my mind if they do it. I don't see it happening. I don't think this conference is going anywhere anytime soon. Talk to me in 2036 when the contract's over with ESPN. And then we can discuss what's going to happen with all these other teams.

I'm going to hold you to that. We will come back to this conversation. 236. That's when the media rights deal ends. Right. So until then, nobody's going anywhere unless they're willing to pay $500 plus million. Do you want to pay $500 plus million? Do then not be guaranteed to be in another conference that's better than the ACC?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I want to talk about you saying Maryland there, because Maryland is the prime example to me of why these teams should not do it. Because when Maryland left early, not only did they have to pay the fees and all that good stuff, but they weren't fully bought into the Big Ten, like they weren't fully receiving full shares from the Big Ten. So yes, you were supposed to get $50 million if you were a full member, which they were. So you could see the effects of that now in terms of, you know, that's still being an economic hindrance on them a little bit. And so like you said, you know, even if Florida State were to pony up the money,

I think it'd be similar to Texas and Oklahoma leaving the Big 12 because we're, with all due respect, where's Baylor going? TCU, who wants you? Listen, there will be teams that want TCU, but it's not going to be those conferences that they would be desired to go to. Exactly. The SEC is not taking them. Exactly.

And there's plenty of schools. that fall in that category. To me, I think all of the schools that are still there, very much on that same category. I love Kansas State. I think that they're NC State West. I really do. I think that there's so much in a comparison. Your rival is a basketball school. They consider you little brother and always, you know, never really giving you your proper dude, but you whip the wheels off of them every time y'all get on the field. And yet, and yet nobody, you know, and it's not just about that one school. I'm saying that's for everybody. Same thing for the ACC. Most of these schools,

where are you going to go? Who is going to? The SEC wants to share with you? I don't think so. The Big Ten wants to share with you? I don't think so. The Big 12 wants to share with you, possibly, but then you're making a lateral move.

So now you just pay 500 million to be even. Exactly. It makes no sense. And another thing that's important here is what's the most important? What drives everything? Well, money. What's the sports that makes the most money and has the most money pumped in? Football.

It's football. It's always football. When I was explaining this to a buddy of mine, which is football, picture like a door, right? The door is football. The little window is men's basketball and everything else is the door handle. Right. So football drives everything with this decision making. You have to add money in the football program.

So a stool like Syracuse, which is not very good at football, where are they going to go other than the ACs? North Carolina. I know they've had a couple of decent years. Where are they going to go? Who's going to take them for football? Because that's what it comes down to. Football. Now, the reason why Clemson and Florida State get looped into this is because those are pretty good football programs. So they can make a lot of money. But they're not willing to spend it to get out of the ACC to not be guaranteed to get into the SEC, which is ultimately where those schools. want to go. Because I don't think that they fit the big 10 culture per se. It's conference realignment. Everyone's going everywhere. It doesn't matter about the culture. Screw the culture. We got SMU coming to the ACC, all right? We got California going to the ACCC. Do you know what the ACC stands for? It's the Atlantic Coast Conference. Where is California? On the Pacific Coast, right? There is no such thing as culture anymore. That's true. It's sure. I think maybe Clemson in Florida State would be accepted into the big 10.

I think that's definitely possible that they would. But how long is it going to take them to recoup on that investment of leaving the ACC? Yeah. It's going to take so long where is it even worth doing it? Is it worth doing it now and paying that huge fee? Or is it worth just waiting until 2036 and seeing where your options lie? Exactly. Or even a middle ground where you wait until it gets close.

of 2036 where the potential buyout drastically decreases in size and you now have more money to do so because you've been banking the coffers and saying, all right, we want to get out this thing as soon as possible. Okay, it's 2033, 2030. We got enough money to now pull the trigger on this thing in the way that we didn't in 2024. That's just what the financial situation is looking like. Folks, make sure to check out my main man. Jackson, tell the folks where they can find to work. At Locked on Syracuse, videos are going to come out. shortly. We're still in a lift. So dotting our eyes, crossing our teas and everything, but I promise you videos are going to come out at Locked on Syracuse. You can also follow us on

Twitter at L.O. underscore Syracuse. Very active there. So I'd appreciate the support. It is absolutely great. Again, always great to have Syracuse in the forward. Always great to have them in this thing. Laco Sinoza. This thing of ours is made so much better when Syracuse is in the midst of it. Folks, come on back next week. Candace will be back. She is out for work right now. I promise you. I promise you. We are only going to bring you more hard-hidden stuff. We're only going to bring you more guests, more topics, more things. So tell us what you think about Syracuse. Tell us if you share Jackson's optimism, the share of fans' optimisms with the eight, nine wins and all that, or if that's a little too much.

It's seven. No, no, no, I'm saying you said seven, but you said most of the fans are thinking it at eight to nine. So tell us what you think there. And let's see what you got in terms of, we've already had to talk talks about the ACC. But just tell us if you think that Jack's not our own base, off base, or rather than not we ride a row. Until next time, beautiful people.