Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - Is the ACC Falling Behind FSU In Legal Fight? | Surprising NIL Value By Position

Starting point is 00:00:00 I'm seeing now another advantage for Florida State in their bitter legal fight with the ACC. You are Locked-on ACC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Shout out to the everydayers for making Locked-on ACC. Your first listen and your first watch today, we're available free wherever you get your podcast. We're free on YouTube. We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Today's episode is brought to you by Fanduel, make every moment more.

Starting point is 00:00:38 Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $150 with any winning $5 bet. Visit Fanduel.com slash locked on to get started. On today's episode, we will talk about what it would take for Davos-Sweeney and Clemson to reclaim an ACC championship this coming season. We're going to break down a fascinating, fascinating analysis. on what players are paid from an NIL standpoint based on position. Maybe some positions are not as valuable in terms of the money coming in as you thought,

Starting point is 00:01:14 but we do have to start the latest on the, this is in the North Carolina front, ACC versus Florida State. By the way, I am Alex Dono from Locked on Caines. He is Kenton Gibbs from Locked on Wolfpack. So Kenton, when we last spoke about the ACC versus Florida State, part of the case in North Carolina, you know, we know Florida State is, is appealing to the Supreme Court in North Carolina, which means Judge Bledsso is pausing everything until that Supreme Court complaint is analyzed and responded to. And so the latest here is

Starting point is 00:01:47 the ACC is asking for an extra 20 days to respond to FSU's petition to the Supreme Court. And they're asking for that extra time because the petition is 55 pages and includes more than 500 pages of exhibits. So the ACC says they need additional time to review the petition and prepare and prepare a response to same, he says. The ACC also has multiple interim deadlines in related litigation, which further supports the need for additional time. Now, Kenton, if they get that additional 20 days to respond, their response would happen on June 19th, which is a day after the next hearing in Florida.

Starting point is 00:02:28 So why I'm saying this is an advantage for Florida State is Florida State wants things to progress in Florida faster than they're progressing in North Carolina. And all signs are pointing to that happening right now. Yeah. So what's happening right now is in terms of where I come from in my native speak, Florida State has the drop on the ACC. They are one step ahead of the ACC right now in terms of how everything is shaped out timeline-wise. This is definitely a win and an advantage for Florida State. And like you and I have talked about many times with this thing, because of the nature of court, there are going to be wins and losses most likely for both sides along the way. And this is a definite win for FSU because you talk about the home cooking aspect of it. You talk about the

Starting point is 00:03:17 home court aspect of it and that's good and great and all that. But when you combine that with the time aspect to where, hey, we can win our case first and they'd have to then go file a motion or go file a restraining order against their goal file, something that is putting this off for temporarily delaying this before it gets reviewed by a higher court, as opposed to it being the opposite where they have home field advantage, they went out, and then we're looking at a situation where we're saying, hey, we've got to take this to a Supreme Court of some sort, our state Supreme Court, or their state Supreme Court, even the federal Supreme Court, you're looking at an advantage for Florida State without a doubt. Not to mention, we're talking about having

Starting point is 00:03:57 the response file within 20 days. Imagine the response to the response because there has to be, the judge has to look at the response and say, okay, is there validity here or not? Imagine how long that's going to take. It doesn't matter how many clerks, he, she, or they have and how great they are at reading through those things. If the actual thing that's being responded to is 55 pages and then you say, well, how long should the response be that can adequately address all these things?

Starting point is 00:04:23 And then you're looking at a bunch of clerks, a bunch of folks having to read this together and explain to the judge, hey, this is what we're seeing here. I mean, you're, you could be looking at being way behind the Leon County case. Yeah. And it's something that it's so fascinating to me. And, you know, I know that there are some like unverified alleged copies of the grants of rights that have been floating around on the internet. Who know, who knows if, if these are valid or not? Because, you know, no one actually has access to the real thing. And, you know, one of the claims. And another, by the way, another advantage that Florida State has is, that since the ACC is also getting sued by Clemson, Florida State and Clemson are able to

Starting point is 00:05:02 compare notes and kind of collaborate with one another on their battle. It's a group project. It's a group project where for the ACC, it's not. I mean, they don't have that advantage of being able to, you know, collaborate with somebody else on this. And so, you know, one of the points of contention here, and it's fascinating to me that a legal document could be so open to interpretation, but that's why we have courts and Supreme courts and all that is that, you know, FSU seems to be asserting, and Clemson has asserted the same

Starting point is 00:05:31 thing that, no, that grant of rights that you think locks us in, even after we leave the conference locked in our TV rights, that you still own those, it absolutely doesn't. And we have alleged evidence that it doesn't, that, you know, we can take our TV rights with us. So it's like, that to me, Kenton, that's like the foundational point of the grant of rights. And if that part is invalid, if it's invalid, the ACC's lawyers did a terrible job putting that grant of rights together, because that's really the whole point of the document. Well, the ACC lawyers did a terrible job putting the document together, but they did a hell of a job getting themselves paid because they're going to be looking at very, very big fees

Starting point is 00:06:12 on this one, but you're absolutely right. It's like a lock that pretty much opens anytime somebody comes near the door. Like, your entire point is to keep people on one side of the door or the other as we design and as we please what are we doing here if everybody can walk in whenever they want it's if there's a problem here there's a problem here and we're sitting here saying ourselves now wait a minute is the grant of rights prohibitive in terms of people leaving or is it not and by prohibitive i mean is it prohibitive by way of hey if you leave you are going to have to pay out if you leave we still have your tv rights or not because Again, that is what these contracts are designed for.

Starting point is 00:06:56 Just like you said, Donald, it's so, it's, it's like a spoon that anything you put in the middle of it instantly drops out. It doesn't make sense. This is so confusing in terms of how could you possibly leave the door open for this? Or is this just a last move of desperation by these universities screaming, hey, we want to get out and we want to get to the bigger money, but there is no path. So we're going to create a path where there isn't one and go digging here. At the moment, again, until I see something that is definite, that is a smoking gun saying, hey, this deal doesn't exist in the way you think it does, I have a really hard time believing that the lawyers for the ACC would have left something this big, this big, just kind of hanging in the balance. And, hey, we don't know what's going on here, but everything's going to be okay. Nah, that's, that's, that would be one of the most flagrant, that would be one of the most flagrant moments of incompetence we have ever seen in college sports.

Starting point is 00:07:57 And mind you, it's, college sports is regulated by the NCAA now. So that's saying something if you can outdo them in terms of incompetence. That's Larry Moe and currently levels of incompetence. Now, something, I'm fascinated by what we're about to talk about Kenton. And this is, I think every college football fan is going to want to hear this. the breakdowns on what the average, what players get paid in NIL based on their position. Now, I know at one point, Jaden Rashada, when he was coming out of high school and he was committed to Florida, he thought he was going to be getting a $13.85 million deal, which over the course of four years would have been over $3 million per year.

Starting point is 00:08:41 Unfortunately, they pulled the rug out from under that one at Florida. he's now suing Billy Napier and a couple of Florida boosters. But, you know, so is three million, three plus, is that standard at the quarterback position? We'll tell you what the standard NIL value is, position by position in college football. CBS Sports has done some great work breaking this down. So you know what you want to do? You want to keep it locked right here on this brand new episode of Locked on ECC. When it comes to your financial future, you think you've done it all.

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Starting point is 00:10:18 Yahoofinance.com, the number one financial destination. Yahoofinance.com. That's Yahoofinance.com. Thank you so much for making Locked-on ACC your first listen and your first watch today. Locked-on has launched the first ever national sports 24-7 streaming channel on YouTube, and now it's also available on Amazon Fire TV and the free Fire TV channels app. Locked-on Sports Today is here for you 24-7 covering the top sports stories of the day, including with the local experts of lockdown plus our national shows covering every league.

Starting point is 00:10:55 Find Lockdown Sports today now available on the free Fire TV channels app. Now, some of Kenton, my assumptions on NIL values by position, some of my assumptions were wrong, but one of those was right. What would you think would be the highest value position overall in college football? What would you guess that is? Oh, well, this is such a tough question because as the game, game evolves. They keep catering it to one position to have success because that position, if they do their job well, it allegedly brings in more fans. But I'd imagine quarterback

Starting point is 00:11:32 would be the highest paid on average. It'd be a shocker to me if they weren't. That was one of my assumptions that was correct. So according to CBS sports, the quarterback market range. And there are definitely some outliers, right? I think Nico in tennis, see certainly an outlier coming out of high school. I believe based on the numbers reported, Cam Ward at Miami is an outlier on the on the upside of this the way that Nico is, but they consider the range for quarterback to be 500,000 to 800,000 annually. So that's, and listen, I'm, I'm all about players getting their bread. I am very pro. I'm very pro. I'm very pro NIL for anyone wondering. Okay. So the quarterback range is 500 to 800K. The, the running back

Starting point is 00:12:20 market range. You know, obviously it pales in competition to quarterback, but this is a position that has obviously gotten devalued a lot in the NFL. I think running back is not as devalued in college as it is in the NFL. So the market range there for running backs is 200,000 to 300,000 annually. You know, I want to say this before we get too deep into the weeds of all this. These are averages. Like Donno said, there are outliers up, but you know what there also are? Outliers down. Don't you hit up your cousin

Starting point is 00:12:56 who plays for Florida State, who plays for Miami, who plays for NC State, who plays for Boston College, who plays for Syracuse. Talking about Donno and Kenton told me you making $250,000. We gave you averages. Okay. Some people make more. Some people make less. With that being

Starting point is 00:13:12 said, you're absolutely right. The running back position I think has held great value relative to the NFL where they're having to take backwater deals and compared to what the quarterbacks are making. A, it's not even close in terms of average, but college football is a lot closer. It's about half of what quarterbacks are making on average a little under that. If you go to the NFL, you're who the highest paid running backs are not even in the same stratosphere as like a Kirk Cousins, who is not a top tier quarterback by any stretch of the imagination.

Starting point is 00:13:43 And when you're an NFL running back, by the time you hit 27 years old, they talk about you is if you're a 40-year-old quarterback. It's like, this guy's lost, 27-year-old running back. Are you kidding me? Yeah, playing running back in the NFL is like trying to date Leonardo DiCaprio. The minute you turn 26, hit the bricks, buddy. It's it. It's over.

Starting point is 00:14:02 Get out of here. Oh, I love that. I actually, I think at first I was a little bit surprised by the wide receiver market range, but I guess, again, but when you're talking about, I get it, because you're talking about a position where, you know, for a lot of schools now, three starters, right? Because, you know, everyone, you know, when you're running the, the air raid, three starters, you got a lot of backups at receiver. So it's a pretty wide range. They consider the wide receiver NIL range to be 75,000 to 300K. So I was just surprised that, like,

Starting point is 00:14:34 the bottom end for wide receiver is 125K lower than what they consider the bottom end for running backs. That surprised me because receiver is, you know, in a more valuable position in the NFL, more of a glamour position. I was surprised it's that low. Yeah, I agree. But I think it's because when you think about the difference between a really good receiver, guys who made all conference teams and guys who didn't, I think that that drop off is slighter than the drop off between top running backs

Starting point is 00:15:03 and mid-level running backs. I think that that's my hypothesis. I'm not saying that based on any day. That's just how I feel based on what I've seen. And so that could be a potential factor in the, in the, playing into that. And on top of that, receiver is one of those positions in terms of college

Starting point is 00:15:21 football that if you have a guy that you just want to get the ball to, but you don't think he's big enough to be in the backfield and take 200 carries, put him at receiver. He's going to be our gadget guy. We're going to do all these wonky things with him. He's going to be our kick returner. We're going to sit them on jet sweeps. May put him in the back foot every

Starting point is 00:15:37 now and then. But where's the best place that you can guarantee getting the guy the ball guaranteed in some open space? Receiver. So, I mean, I can kind of understand the logic behind this when being paid a little less. I have a lot of respect for offensive linemen and the importance of that position group.

Starting point is 00:15:56 So I was actually pleased to see how much O. lineman make. And Kenton, this to me, this is a reminder for everyone out there that, you know, and I know that this is not what NIL was supposed to be because NIL was supposed to be, hey, you can sign some marketing deals. You can represent, you know, Bob's car dealership

Starting point is 00:16:14 and do some commercials. NIL, it's absolutely pay for play. Oh, for sure. For sure. One of the thoughts that a lot of people had, you know, when, what was it, three, four years ago when NIL first started, people are thinking, man, it's going to be hard for the offensive linemen because the offensive linemen, they're not going to be getting these big endorsement deals like the star quarterback and star wide receiver. But on the actual football field, even if it's not the most marketable position, it's very important position, Kenton. So the offensive line range is actually very high. 350,000 to 500,000. Because guess what?

Starting point is 00:16:50 If you don't have a good offensive line, you're not going to win football games. It doesn't matter what your quarterback does. It doesn't matter what your running back does. The only time that I've ever seen a quarterback kind of outdo a bad offensive line, and I wouldn't even say bad. They were just undersized and their scheme work for them was Pat White at West Virginia. That's the only time I saw a quarterback and the running back with a really,

Starting point is 00:17:12 you know, not the biggest offensive line in the world. they were just crushing it. But again, nobody had ever seen the things that they were doing with the option at that time. And Pat White was a freak of nature. Your big boys lead. Your buffet busters lead, okay? If those guys can't get the job done, it's Katie Diz at the doorstep for another team. They're not going to have to worry too much about, oh, they've got the best quarterback in the world back there.

Starting point is 00:17:34 Well, let's see how well he can throw it. Well, he's horizontal in the air. Let's figure it out, friends. So, you know, it makes sense that these guys are getting paid. Yeah, an offensive line, same thing about defensive line. Like you can never have too many, right? Whereas like for a position like wide receiver, you can get away with like, hey, maybe my fifth and sixth wide receiver are not very good, right?

Starting point is 00:17:55 But on the offensive line where five guys start, your six, seventh, eighth, offensive linemen better be pretty good if you expect to be one games, right? And I would say the same thing about the defensive line, Kenton, a position you played, of course, at NC State. The D-line market range is a little low, well, actually a lower, floor but a higher ceiling than offensive line, which kind of makes sense because like big time pass rushers are a premium position. So the range there is 250K to 600K. So that that one I think has 600. Yeah. Let me get lost. Let me find out. Let me find out. Give me a call, baby. If you need some

Starting point is 00:18:34 defensive line services, I don't know how the injury situation might, but you know, I might have had a red shirt, gray shirt, blue shirt situation. Call me. Call me. in a game. Put me in the game. Coase 250 to 600. Why are we? Why are we? Hey, listen, in the words young Dolph, get paid, young brother, get paid. I'm proud of these young men for getting what they earned. And I'll tell you, defensive line is an extremely taxing position. It's extreme. Football is a violent sport altogether. But defensive line, you are asked to do a ton of running. You are asked to run almost as much as linebackers in terms of run to the ball. It doesn't matter how far the ball is. way, run to the ball. And you're having to do that on top of fighting double teams and all that

Starting point is 00:19:18 good stuff. So, you know, these young men getting paid, I'm not one of those people that's like, hey, it was hard for me and I had to go uphill both ways to school. So every kid should have to do that. No, if I had to go uphill both ways to school, maybe get a shuttle. Maybe get a bus. So I'm proud of these young men for earning their due because, again, defensive line is to me, I would say defensive line is probably the second hardest position in the game physically. Yeah. I really do believe that. So, you know, that's, hey, more power to them, get paid.

Starting point is 00:19:49 Then the last two position groups they have on here. The linebacker market range, maybe a little lower than I thought, 100,000 to 300,000, and the DB market range 120K to 225. So a couple surprises there, like, because if you've got a lockdown corner, that's Yeah, yeah. Lockdown corner, a ball hawking safety. I would have thought because in the NFL, there's a huge premium on top corner. I would have thought the ceiling would be higher for DBs.

Starting point is 00:20:17 And I guess with linebackers, that's a position that's becoming a little bit devalued these days, in my opinion. Yeah, linebacker kind of aligns with what's going on in the NFL, right? If you're an off-the-ball linebacker in the NFL, chances are you're not getting as much of a, as an on-the-ball linebacker or edge rusher, like a, a, TJ Watt, Miles Garrett, that type of guy and all that. But the cornerback pay is a little bit confused. DB pay, rather, is a little big confusing. Because I'm going to tell you, man, when you think about, you think about how many good receivers there are in today's game, right?

Starting point is 00:20:56 If you have a guy who can be an eraser, and the reason that I said the gap between a really good receiver and the all right receiver in college isn't that big, It's not because the all right receivers are not good. No, the all right receivers are better than they've ever been. So if you have a guy that you can say, hey, go take this side of field away for me. Or you can say, hey, go follow that young man around. Everywhere he goes, you go.

Starting point is 00:21:21 And I don't want him breathe in the wrong way without you smelling his breath. I don't want him taking a sip of Gatorade without you with a bid. Here you go, buddy. I'm going to make sure none of that gets on your jersey. So I really don't understand why that position pay is so low. Because to me, cornerback is the cornerback, not safety so much, but cornerback is the physically most demanding position in football. I don't think that there is an argument for any other position.

Starting point is 00:21:48 And no offense, Donald, this joke has been told a million times, so I'm going to tell it for the million and first. The position of cornerback is so hard. They don't even let white guys do it anymore in the NFL. I want you to think about that for a second. It is a different position. Again, is it the most mentally taxing? I wouldn't say so.

Starting point is 00:22:07 But in terms of physical demand, the physical rigors of that job, you're not going to find one that's more physically demanding that. I like that. Well, when we come back, a case has been made for Clemson to reclaim the throne atop the ACC, which I don't think would be a huge shocker. I mean, they're right in there with, you know, the top two or three odds. But, you know, are they better than Florida State who won it last year? There's a lot of hype on what Miami's doing with their roster.

Starting point is 00:22:37 There are sleepers like NC State and maybe Virginia Tech, Louisville. Will Clemson reclaim the throne? We will discuss right here on Locked on ACC. Right after we discuss Fan Duel. Folks, if you're an ACC fan and you're getting ready for this upcoming football season, you're looking at these over unders, right? Maybe you want Clemson to win the ACC. You want to put some money on that.

Starting point is 00:23:03 Maybe you like Miami at plus 450 to win the conference. Maybe you like the over. and nine and a half for the over Florida state nine and a half. You can find all of this on America's number one sports book. And oh yeah, it's winner take all time in the NBA and NHL. And Fandual's giving you a shot to bring home a big win of your own. Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $150 to bet on spreads, money lines, player props, and more.

Starting point is 00:23:31 So visit Fandual.com slash locked on and make every playoff shot count. Fanduel, America's number one sports book. I would say shout out to CBS sports today because they've provided some of our talking points on this episode. And another one of those is a CBS college football article that discusses a hundred storylines, a hundred days out from the college football season published this week. And for one of those, they've got a bold prediction, Kenton, on the Clemson Tigers. They say Clemson will reclaim its spot atop the ACC as a bold prediction. Now they say maybe a stretch for bold, but this prediction comes with additional expectation

Starting point is 00:24:19 that Clemson will restart its dominance against lesser teams in the conference. While Pitt or Syracuse would weaponize itself every now and then for an upset or upset scare, Clemson largely ran through a good portion of its ACC schedule during its six-year reign as the league champion. I think we get back to those kind of wins from Clemson, thanks to an improvement. passing game that should benefit from a healthy wide receiver room and the arrival of instant impact young players like Bryant Westco Jr. So this story was written by Chip Patterson, by the way, he does a good job for CBS sports. And he's out there on the limb. Clemson are going to be top dogs again. I think they're going to be in the conversation,

Starting point is 00:24:57 Kenton, but I'm maybe this year's not the year that this really sets in, but I'm a little bit worried about their depth since they don't use the portal at all. Dong the Witch is dead. I hate to tell everybody this. I hate to do this, you know. And the words of Kendrick Lamar, the wonderful dominating champs that we once saw is paranoid and now spiraling. It took Tyler from Spartanburg last year to get this team going, to get this team ignited, to get this team rolling in the way they should be. And the more that I look at that back half of the schedule, the more I'm like, did they really get rolling or did they just play team? teams that weren't as good because there were a lot of games on that back end where I'm like,

Starting point is 00:25:45 no, I mean, yeah, they pulled away late, but that team wasn't very good. This is what I will say to Clemson. You all, I'm sorry that your coach is like this. I'm sorry that he took you to the highest heights, but is now going to drag you to mediocrity once again. But Dabo's refusal to use the portal is not going to bite him in the future. is going to bite him now. We are going to see deficiencies.

Starting point is 00:26:12 You are going to see the fact that if you had just a slightly better quarterback, you would be okay. You were going to see that the development of players, it is good. It should happen. I believe thoroughly and you cannot build your roster mainly through the portal. However, you have to address certain polls. Okay? It is like saying, hey, I.

Starting point is 00:26:38 I do all of the fix-it projects. I do all of the handiwork in my house myself. If you have the skills to do it, that's great. But even still, if you're a jack-of-all-trades guy, there still comes a time where it's like, it may be best to have a certified guy do that. Oh, no, my wiring is acting a little wonky. I know a little bit of electric work.

Starting point is 00:27:03 I'm not an electrician. Maybe I need to get a little bit of help with that. You know, it doesn't mean that you can't do projects around the house anymore. It doesn't mean that you can't build a great deck. It doesn't mean that you can't do all the great things in terms of power washing, your sidewalk and all that good stuff. It doesn't mean that you're now veckless and useless. But it means that you know there are areas that you need help in

Starting point is 00:27:24 where somebody can do it a little better than you. And you're comfortable making that trade off. The fact that dabble doesn't make that trade off tells me this, this team is too, or not this team, He is too stubborn and in his own way to take down his ego and do what is best for the team, not what's best for Davo. So with that being said, Will Clemson reclaim the ACC title? I give this one a resounding one and a half thumbs down. No soup for you, CBS.

Starting point is 00:27:55 No soup for you. One and a half. Wow. I tend to agree. But how about if you prefer the thumbs up over the thumbs down, make sure you smash that thumbs up button. if you're watching us on YouTube, hit that like button, subscribe to Lockedon ACC on YouTube, subscribe to the audio version. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast.

Starting point is 00:28:14 He is Kenton Gibbs from Locked on Wolfpack. Make sure you check out his show, Locked on Wolfpack, and check him out on X at TGIF underscore Kenton. Check me out on Locked on Cains. Follow me on X at Alex Dono. And we'll talk to you again tomorrow on another episode of Locked on ACC, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team every day. Thank you.

Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - Is the ACC Falling Behind FSU In Legal Fight? | Surprising NIL Value By Position

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