Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - REALIGNMENT: Did ESPN Influence ACC's Settlement with Florida State & Clemson?

Starting point is 00:00:00 How does this ACC settlement set the table for future conference realignment? You are Locked on ACC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. Shout out to the everydayers, and thank you so much for making Locked on ACC. Your first listen and your first watch today, we're available free wherever you get your podcast. We're free on YouTube. We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.

Starting point is 00:00:34 He is Kenton Gibbs from Lockdown Wolfpack. I am Alex Dono from Locked on Cains as we are in the final six years of Locked on ACC shows here. And today's episode is brought to you by Fandual. Right now, new Fandual customers can get $150 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet wins. And of course, talking more about this settlement. And on where we go from here, we're very happy to bring back. And he has been Doug Rohan, if you follow him on social media, and you've seen him on this show and other great podcasts out there.

Starting point is 00:01:08 He's really been one of the best resources that we've had during these court cases. And I guess this is like now we're kind of on the tail end here that the settlement is coming down. So attorney Doug Rohan, let me ask you, how does this settlement set the table for what is surely going to be future conference realignment? Well, first off, I'm not an expert in that area. and I'm not trying to add other areas of expertise. I'm going to be very happy to get back to my full-time job of running a seven-figure law firm with 20 employees. But it is true that the post-mortem on the settlement is,

Starting point is 00:01:50 I think exactly what Kent was saying earlier this week, the ACC has put up a very, very challenging situation for their long-term continued success. It was already going to be hard if Florida State and Clemson leave, which I would put the odds at 98%, but it is possible that something gets worked out to keep them in the fold. It's possible we don't get an invite. You know, that's one of the things that people have thrown up in our victory lap as we've been celebrating the settlement and the victory. Ha, ha, ha, you're still in the ACC. Well, yeah, of course we are today.

Starting point is 00:02:26 Of course we are tomorrow. But that's the question is, are conversation going to start happening? That's the first benefit to the settlement is we don't have to do cloak and dagger behind the scenes, you know, secret talks. We can now talk openly. Second, how long do those talks take if they're going to happen? Does the Big Ten really want AAU status as a precondition or prerequisite to getting an invite? That's still 2028, probably at the earliest.

Starting point is 00:02:54 We're investing research dollars. We're doubling every year. but we have to double it one or two more times before we start reaching those numbers. Is the SEC going to have an appetite to expand? And that's why the settlement really is the best of the possible outcomes, even better than if we had won at trial. Let's say hypothetically that this had gone super fast and we had gotten to it an end result in 2026.

Starting point is 00:03:18 Well, okay, you're out. Okay, you don't need to pay, but where are we going to go? We're going to go independent? I think the dust is still settling from Texas and Oklahoma and the PAC 12, collapse and all that that was going on. So the realignment appetite isn't there today or tomorrow, which then brings us to what is 2031 look like. And unless the ACC can convince USF, Memphis, maybe a couple other players, maybe the SEC does want to shed some of their dead weight, maybe the Big Ten is thinking, yeah, we want to expand and add hot brands, but we can't continue

Starting point is 00:03:53 dragging the Northwesterns with us. Maybe there is some kind of over. overall reshuffling, but the ACC is, I think, more likely to end up like the AAC than the Big 12. And that's exactly to what Kenton was saying. Once you start taking money away from those lower tier schools, it's just going to make the whole deeper for those lower tier schools as you try to lift all of the members up. So I want to get your opinion on something that you are a little bit of an expert in. In terms of, and by the way, did you notice the subtle flex I got to get back to run the seven-figure law firm with 20 employees. You know, he has to let you know.

Starting point is 00:04:32 But in all serious. I got a five-figure budget to run back here. In all seriousness, when we talk about the sentiments surrounding the Florida state fan base right now, right? Because in my mind, they play Duke finessed by Gucci Man and Young School, they're all through Tallahassee all the way up to Clemson right now. But what is the actual sentiment that you've noticed in terms of the Florida state fan base because I've seen some excitement I've seen some people disappointed that you

Starting point is 00:05:01 got to stick around so long I've seen a little bit of everything but what do you think is the general sentiment of the nose fan base at the moment well first of all a reminder Twitter is not a true analogy to real life and doesn't reflect a true cross-section of the fan base but you always have some people that want to be unhappy it's never going to be good enough if even if we were out today oh that's so irresponsible how can we be out today when we've got to put all these plans in place. So there's a percentage of fans that are just never, never satisfied. I think that's a very, very small percentage.

Starting point is 00:05:37 I think the vast majority are smart enough and intelligent enough to recognize. We get more money, I hope. We get out for a vastly discounted price. And we can start talking about when we're going to get out while also closing the gap in those first few years to the big 12, the Big Ten and the SEC. Unversely, this is a successful outcome for the Florida State fans. And, you know, let's talk a little bit more about the uneven revenue split because you brought up, you know, some of the concerns for the lower tier schools. But what about the teams at that top

Starting point is 00:06:16 tier now? Because this is, this is something that Florida State and Clemson really wanted the opportunity to make extra revenue. And also, as a Miami guy, I don't mind the fact that Miami didn't have to spend a dime of legal expenses and they still have the opportunity to reap the benefits here. Yeah, look, Texas Tech has the best portal class coming in this next season because they invested in the NIL. If Syracuse was out there and said, you know what, we're going to invest, we're going to get that $20 million roster and surprise. There's nothing stopping them. They can achieve. However, that's for the success initiative of on-field results. That's why Florida State and Clemson were so keen on doing the eyeball test because that's going to be a lot

Starting point is 00:07:00 harder for another team to come in and overcome. So while, and you guys talked about on the basketball, the NIL environment has allowed you to feel a superior basketball team very quickly. It's the eyeballs that take a decade to change behaviors on. So even with Florida State, losing season, losing season, better season, 13 and no season, losing season, the rolling average of those four years still puts them at or near the top in terms of viewership. And that's why, yes, it's a question mark. There's an asterisk. Are we actually going to get it? There's going to be enough people hate watching the train wreck of Florida State going one and 11 if that's what happens in 2025. I would hope we're closer to eight wins, nine wins, even 10 wins. But Florida State as a brand is

Starting point is 00:07:46 going to have the viewers. And at least the first year is virtually a lock to get that additional performance improvement bonus. So with what we're looking at in terms of the settlement and all that, and when you look at on top of that revenue sharing coming down the pipeline, what do you think is the outlook in totality for Florida State for the next few years? Are you looking at this saying, hey, not only is this financially beneficial because you have more money than you had before, or is this more of a situation where it's like the more money was coming anyway. The revenue share was coming anyway, this is just helping you bridge a gap. What does that look like in your people? I think the unknown to answer your question is what was private equity going to do?

Starting point is 00:08:31 Florida State was talking to private equity. So I can't really compare apples to apples knowing what the alternate version of the future was had this not been resolved, had there not been uneven revenue sharing. Because I suspect that Michael Alford and President McCullough would not have taken a loss or would not have taken anything lying down. They would have sought other opportunities. When I go back to the original filing of this lawsuit and the people that were giving us a hard time about filing the lawsuit, the money disparity was an existential threat to the continuation of Florida State as a premier football program. And the loss, the worst case scenario was that the status quo was maintained and we had to pay 500 million or stay in the ACC.

Starting point is 00:09:20 until 2036. So truthfully, Florida State didn't have anything to lose by going down this path. What we gained is a substantial return on those nominal invested dollars for the attorney's fees, a guarantee of how the process works, and now we can have conversations about where, if in either of the P2 conferences, we might possibly end up. And to that point, I would say, between the viewership numbers, between the geography, we're at least attractive to the Big Ten. And if we're attracted to the Big Ten, that's a threat to ESPN and the SEC.

Starting point is 00:09:58 And that's why the SEC may not want us, but they may take us as a defensive measure to the Big Ten expanding their nationwide reach. Yeah, that's great. I want to continue this conversation when we come back with Attorney Doug Rohan because he just hit on something very important about playing that defense against Fox.

Starting point is 00:10:18 And I also, I want to go through some of the nuts and bolts of this settlement because Doug predicted a lot of this. And, you know, he's rightfully taking some victory laps on social media. You want to keep it locked right here, my friends. We're nowhere near done yet on this brand new episode of Locked on ACC. My friends, I hope you've been trying out the Fandual app because when the game tips off, the NBA action is just getting started. And there's no better place to get in.

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Starting point is 00:11:24 bet wins. Just visit Fandual.com to join today. That's Fanduel.com for your shot at $150 in bonus bets. Make every moment more with Fandual, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Thank you for making Lockdown ACC your first listen and your first watch today. Still to come on this episode, we're going to talk some bracketology because, man, the ACC, See, we're getting hammered right now when it comes to NCAA tournament predictions. But before we get to all that, let's continue this conversation with attorney Doug Rohan. So, Doug, when the settlement terms started to leak early this week and that it was ultimately approved on Tuesday, did anything you saw surprise you?

Starting point is 00:12:12 Any terms maybe you weren't expecting? I was genuinely shocked about it. And that also goes to why Kenton was so right. earlier this week. In order for the gap to close, I was on another podcast and had stated, $7 million, $6 million, $5 million is not going to make a difference. The gap has to be $15 million or more. And to your point about getting some things right, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, turns out the potential is there for $15 million. But the only way that math works is to take from the lower tier teams. And that's the thing that first off,

Starting point is 00:12:50 I did not even consider being a reality. I thought ESPN might be altruistic and might pony up some more dollars as part of their February extension. But as we saw, they did what they usually do, which is look out for themselves. So instead they look, it was a unanimous vote by all the members. And that means that somebody, also to Kenton's point, he was right, somebody somewhere really turned the screws on the members saying, if you want the ESPN contract to be extended, if you want the ACC to survive, then this is what it's going to take for it to happen. And the ACC decided they made a business decision. We can either end in 2027 or we can end in 2031 or we can end in 2036.

Starting point is 00:13:39 Right now, let's take the 2031 guarantee. Let's make our players happy. Let's make our teams happy. Let's acquiesce to giving up a portion of our dollars on the lower end. and we'll figure the rest out later. But Kent, welcome to the club. It's feckless leadership. It's nepotism.

Starting point is 00:13:58 It's incompetence. And that's what our lawsuit has been about since the very beginning. And that's what I've never denied about the ACC, because I've talked about it for so long. Those bozos over there in Chapel Hill were going to be the death of this conference. They were going to be the death of it. And boy, was I right. But that's another story for another time.

Starting point is 00:14:16 Doug, when we talk about this case and, kind of how everything, you know, unraveled with this. We all acknowledged everybody was astonished by how quickly this was settled and how everything would. But what do you think the odds are that, you know, you talked about Disney protecting himself in their money, Mickey Mouse money protecting itself, we're all astonished. We're all taking aback, no, we're taking aback. But when you look at that type of thing, what percentage would you say the likelihood is that

Starting point is 00:14:46 the four-letter brand, also known as ESPN, stepped in and said, hey, we have to. to get this done. We have to guarantee, because a lot, like you said in the last segment, it's not just about having Florida State and Clemson in the ACC. It's keeping them away from the Big Ten, your biggest competitor in Fox. You know, like at KD, I need to get him away from the, the, the, the thunder more than I need him on the Warriors type of situation. What do you look at in terms of that? What do you think of the odds that ESPN stepped in and said, hey, we're going to massage this thing to work out a certain way. I would say 99%, not 100%, because what ESPN did was presented a proposal and gave the ACC an option.

Starting point is 00:15:33 Again, I don't have inside info. You can't sue me. This is speculation. I'm opining. But there are certain things in business that just make sense. And especially as the criminal defense attorney, I know when somebody is feeding me a line of BS. I don't know if this is R rated or PG rating. So when it comes to thinking through this process, the thought exercise, ESPN, I'm certain, sat down in a boardroom and it was a very short meeting.

Starting point is 00:16:02 And they said we cannot extend this contract to 2036 without Clemson and Florida State being locked in at least for a time. We are not going to guarantee another nine years, even at a discounted rate, thinking that Florida State and Clemson might bolt. anytime soon. So the deal was either the ACC ends in 2027 when the grant of rights would have been null and void because the ESPN contract was null and void and it would be a free for all, or get all of your players and get all of your members in line, get them to agree to this math that makes sense for the parties to keep them happy, and let's go ahead and sign the extension. If it's not 100%, it's 99% only because the A.m. ACC had the choice, had the free will.

Starting point is 00:16:51 They could have said, don't worry about it. We'll just figure it out without ESPN down the road. We're going to go sign a contract with Lifetime. That's one of the best darn breakdowns you're going to get there. Doug Rohan, you want to follow him on X at Rohan Law PC. And Doug, I'm kind of disappointed that this legal stuff is over, at least for now, because I don't know what you're going to be tweeting about now. I guess I'll follow whatever you want to talk about on social media.

Starting point is 00:17:17 Well, I did tweet an ad yesterday about Burns, burn accidents at work. And then, of course, everybody immediately thought that was based on all of the receipts I was pulling from all the people throughout the lawsuit. So that was pretty funny. But yeah, we'll be around. I'm still a passionate Florida State football fan booster and Bowdoin Society member. And so I'm here to cheer on the Knowles. And I love engaging with followers and with fans of other groups. I've been talking to a couple Georgia Tech fans who were a little bit.

Starting point is 00:17:47 bitter. Look, I hope Georgia Tech figures it up. They were the number one viewership last season. Please stay. I want Georgia Tech to be our travel partner wherever we go. So they've got to keep up those viewership numbers so they're attractive because I need my Knowles here visiting us in Atlanta. I mean, you know Doug's a likable guy when a Miami guy like me considers him a friend. So you know, you know, he's doing something right, right? I mean, and Kenton gets along with Isaac Shade. So there's some good people out there on the Tar Heels. Oh, who said that? Who told you all that? You know, let's not, let's not take it that far, okay? I still don't trust any man with a Jerry Curl in 2025.

Starting point is 00:18:22 So me and I have got some things we need to work out, but that's the media. Bald is beautiful. Ball is beautiful. Exactly. You better tell them, Doug. You better tell them. But in all seriousness, you do know, when the nose are going on next season, we got to have you back. Oh, we got good bad or ugly.

Starting point is 00:18:37 We got to have you back sooner or later, all right? I liked somebody else said it. It was like Florida State was throwing up tour dates with their record last season. Coming to your house, February 10th, baby. I love it. Doug Rohan, make sure you follow him on social media. You won't regret it. Doug, thank you so much for all the expertise. And like Kenton said, we'll find reasons to get you back on. Love to. You all take care. Fantastic. Well, that was probably more upbeat than our basketball conversation is about to be Kenton. Do we have to do it, Donald? Do we have to do it? Yes. That's why we're here.

Starting point is 00:19:15 We're here. Through the good, the bad and the ugly. Locked on ACC is with you. Let's talk some bracketology next. Now here's something that I do love talking about, and that's Nissan. We're all about the stats here on Locked on ACC because numbers don't lie. And when it comes to the all-new Nissan Armada Pro 4X, the numbers are on an MVP level. With the ability to tow up to 8,500 pounds, it can quite literally carry the whole team plus the gear, wherever you need to go.

Starting point is 00:19:47 It's powered by a twin turbo v6 engine delivering the strength and performance to handle highways, back roads, and everything in between. And with room for up to eight people, the Armada Pro 4X is built for big crews, big adventures, and even bigger memories. Whether you're exploring off-road trails or rolling up to the arena, the Armada Pro 4X brings power, versatility, and style wherever you go. Take your adventures to new heights in the all-new Nissan Armada Pro 4X. Learn more at nisone, USA.com. Thank you so much for making Lockdown ACC, your first listen and your first watch today. For your next listen, make sure you check out Lockdown College Basketball. Kenton's sworn enemy, Isaac Shade and Andy Patton, do a fantastic job, getting you ready for the postseason.

Starting point is 00:20:39 It's like your cheat sheet. They're going to have you ready to fill out your brackets on Lockdown College basketball. And Kenton, from an ACC point of view, we may only have, you know, three options to win the NCAA tournament. Of course, Duke, a projected number one overall seed would seemingly give us the best chance at success in the conference. But Clemson and Louisville, who have also punched their tickets to the NCAA tournament, also give us a strong shot. But I'm looking at Joe Lenardi's updated rackatology. He updates this daily. And for the Friday update, very disappointed, Kenton, to see he's only got three, those three that I mentioned,

Starting point is 00:21:19 ACC teams getting into the tournament. He's got North Carolina among the first four out. He's got SMU among the next four out. And, you know, Wake Forest, who everybody had in the tournament a week ago, is nowhere to be seen after the awful stretch that they've gone on. And Kent, here's, I know I've given you a mouthful already, but here's the most depressing part, okay? Because when you go through how many teams each conference is projected to get in, the SACs. SEC is projected to get 12. The big 10, 10, 8 from the big 12, 5 from the big east, four from the Mountain West, three from the ACC and two from the WCC. The Mountain West is going to get more teams in the NCAA tournament than the ACC. Now I'll give you the floor now.

Starting point is 00:22:10 You know, Donald said that we're here for you through the good and the bad and the ugly. This picture is so ugly. If you put his face in some cookie dough, you make a gorilla cookies. This is terrible. This is awful. This is, I'm going to say this. I'm begging you. Every single team, and I'm going to touch y'all's shoulder when I say this, every single team that's not named Duke, Louisville, or Clemson,

Starting point is 00:22:36 one of y'all go steal a bid. Go still, still a bid from somebody. Okay, please. Because at this point, and there's a world where this works out in the way, North Carolina is currently on the first four out, correct? Yes. If they win a couple games in this tournament, you win the right game, you can find yourself on the right side of the bubble.

Starting point is 00:22:57 And then if another team happens to win it outright, you steal a bid, which is unfortunate because it may end up canceling out. This is why you don't want teams being on the back end of the bubble, because even if you do have a bid stealer, guess what they just stole the bid from? Far being for me to ever root for the Dirty Foot Club, also known as Tar Heels. However, do something.

Starting point is 00:23:21 Hubert, RJ, do something. Do something. Again, every other team. Cowell, Stanford, both y'all in the tournament, do something. Notre Dame,

Starting point is 00:23:32 you just barely snuck in by the hands on your chin-in-chin-chin. Do somebody. Still a bid here. Because if Duke wins it, if Louisville wins it, if Clemson wins it, We're going to have three.

Starting point is 00:23:48 That's all there is to it. That's all there is to. And even if somebody else wins it, unless UNC happens to beat Duke or and Louisville or Clemson along the way, they're probably going to get the bit stolen from them. So, you know, this is a tough world we live in right now. And Bracketage is a disappointment

Starting point is 00:24:07 because the coaching has been sub-part this year. Yeah. Let's be very honest about that. You know, we see, I'll give you a prime example, and I'm going to stick to the guys here at Riley. Brian Patis is a senior on NC State's basketball team. He's been here for all four years. He shot nine threes in his last game as a NC State will factor in the Lenovo Center,

Starting point is 00:24:30 their home arena. He made four of them. That young man has been shooting a 40% clip all year. NC State has needed floor spacing all year, and he has not played. And some people are saying. saying, oh, well, it's because he can't defend. The guards that were playing couldn't defend, and they also couldn't shoot. So. At least he could shoot.

Starting point is 00:24:56 Hello. If I'm going to give me a traffic cone, give me a traffic cone. It's going to put up some points. But he's not the only one. He's not the only coach that's done some things that just leave you, scratch your head, and said, what's happening here? And that doesn't even include the fact that we've had three coaches quit or retired leading up to or during this season.

Starting point is 00:25:18 So, you know, this is just one of those years, man. It's a down year for the ACC, but I expect ACC to bounce back in a very major way. I really and truly do. But this year's bracketology is just a nasty business. Yeah, one, and here's hoping, like you said, somebody not named Duke especially. And if somebody beats Duke in the ACC tournament,

Starting point is 00:25:39 that's going to improve their stock. So we need a new face tournament winner in the ACC, and we need somebody to go on a run. And we'll keep you guys updated, of course, as the picture gets clear. And when we get into the ACC tournament, he is Kenton Gibbs from Lockdown Wolfpack. Make sure you check him out at TGIF underscore Kenton.

Starting point is 00:25:57 I am Alex Dono from Lockdown Canes. You could follow at Lockdown Cains on X. And huge, thank you again to Doug Rohan, attorney at law for helping us break down this settlement. And we'll talk to you guys again next time on another episode of Lockdown ACC. We are part of the awesome Lockdown Podcast Network. team every day.

Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - REALIGNMENT: Did ESPN Influence ACC's Settlement with Florida State & Clemson?

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