Locked On ACC - Daily College Football & Basketball Podcast - REVELATION: ACC's HIDDEN Contenders EMERGE | Will Georgia Tech SHOCK the Conference?

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

ACC Football Shakeup: Can SMU's Rhett Lashlee Maintain His Coaching Magic?Alex Donno and Kenton Gibbs dissect ESPN's bold claim about SMU's Rhett Lashlee being college football's top performer. They analyze the Mustangs' back-to-back 11-win seasons and debate the challenges of SMU's transition from underdog to hunted. The duo also examines Syracuse's uphill battle with only 46% returning talent, Florida State's contentious ranking, and Georgia Tech's surprising potential as an ACC dark horse. Former NC State defensive lineman Gibbs offers insider perspectives on team dynamics and coaching strategies.Tune in for expert analysis on ACC football's landscape and discover which teams might defy expectations this season.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!GametimeToday's episode is brought to you by Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONCOLLEGE for $20 off your first purchase. Terms and conditions apply.Monarch MoneyTake control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONCOLLEGE at www.monarchmoney.com/lockedoncollege for 50% off your first year.FanDuelRight now, new customers can get ONE HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS when your first FIVE DOLLAR BET WINS! Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Listen to this statement. Based purely on performance compared with recent history, there might not be a better college football coach than SMU's Rhett Lashley. You are locked on ACCC, your daily podcast on the Atlantic Coast Conference. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. You know, the ACC is the conference of Bill Belichick, the conference of Davos-Sweeney, but it's also the conference of Rhett Lash, so let's give the guys some more love.

Thank you so much to the everydayers for making Lockdown ACC, your first listen and your first watch. We're available free wherever you get your podcast. We're free on YouTube. We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. He is Kenton Gibbs, former NC State defensive linemen and co-host of Lockdown Wolfpack. I am Alex Dono, former Pee Wee League defensive lineman and co-host of Locked on Kane.

I wanted to mix up the intro a little bit. And on this loaded episode of Locked on ABCC, we're going to talk about that Ret Lashley statement, which came from the ESPN ACC preview, which just dropped this week. And it's an amazing read. And there's also some really interesting nuggets in there on who the top conference contenders are. what the top non-conference games and conference games are in the ACC, and the returning talent charts are interesting. But Kenton Gibbs, let's dissect that nugget that Bill Connolly of ESPN dropped on

Rett Lashley and why he's probably not wrong. So again, he says, based purely on performance compared with recent history, there might not be a better college football coach than Rett Lashley. Before his tenure, Connolly adds, the SMU Mustang's previous two seasons with 11 plus wins came in 1982 and 1935. He did it in 2023 and 2024. And of note, Kenton, that included making jump from the American to the Atlantic Coast Conference.

So, like, Lashley and SMU got themselves 11 wins in their final year in the AAC, and everyone including me and probably you thought there's no way he can do that in the ACC. see him and then he does it again the second straight year. And this is, this is not a blue chip job that Lashley inherited, right? I mean, you know, Kaelin DeBore is doing an okay job at Alabama, but that was, you know, the destination in the country before he took over for Nick Saban, right? I mean, Rhett Lashley takes over an SMU team that hadn't won 11 games since the pony excess era was going on there. It's really remarkable. Well, you know, you talk about the pony excess we could go uh bd a d before death penalty after death penalty there has been nothing virtually

in smu's history since the death penalty that it really got you here and not only that i think one of the biggest things that we need to get red lastly credit for Dallas fortworth is known as a metro flex right although they're accepted as two different municipalities they're known as like the dallas fort worth metro area the SMU job is not even the most attractive in that metro place. Let's be honest. If you're comparing, before Rett Lashley got there,

if you're comparing TCU to SMU, people would have told you by a mouth, TCU is a better football school. What are we doing that? Why will we even, this isn't a debate, this isn't a conversation. And yet,

and yet, Rhett Lashley has that team with as many playoff appearances as TCU has happened. And yet, Red Lashley, when recruiting against the big boys of Texas, Texas A&M,

you compete with all those schools down there in that area like a TCU with Baylor, all those things, and you go out there and you get yourself these wins on the recruiting trail. You go out there and become a master of the portal. You go out there and jump levels in terms of divisions. Because we all know, with all due respect, there is a difference between the group of five and the power four. Now group of six and power four.

But you jump from the group of six to the power four and you go to the championship as the top seat in year one. You better put some respect on Red's name, man. You better put some respect. Last year they were called Miami West. Technically, they were Miami best last year because they were in the ACC championship as opposed to Miami who was not. So Red lastly deserves all the love for the job that he's done. and now we've got locked on SMU as well. So, you know, I said that we would do no such thing here

until we were to free Sherwood Blunt. Apparently they let him out. Apparently they let him. He's back boosting. I'm joking. I don't know if he's back a booster. I'm joking. Please do not get upset with me about that SMU fans,

but I do love this to Sherwood Blunt. But in all seriousness, this is a very great moment for us. Yeah. And so SMU, you know, in the ESPN SP Plus rankings, their preseason ratings, they have them third in the ACCC with Clemson, number one, Miami at number two, SMU third. Now, I've already taken a look at the Phil Steele preview, which we're going to break that down more thoroughly on a future episode. Phil Steele actually has SW2 second in the conference behind Clemson. So they are, they are getting some love, Kent, and a team that was not supposed to be in the ACC championship last year, certainly not supposed to. be in the college football playoffs.

And they didn't win in either of those things, but they accomplished both of those goals to get there, which was impressive. Now, let me ask you, how much harder is it when you become the hunted, right? Because if you looked at SMU last year, kind of a lovable underdog scenario, you know, nobody thought they'd probably win more than,

you know, I think they're over under last year was probably around, just because their schedule wasn't that tough. Maybe it was like a seven and a half over under, but they got to 11 wins last year. But the secret is out. And there's more tape on Kevin Jennings, who did an impressive job. Didn't start the season as their starting quarterback, but Preston Stod got benched. They didn't look back to Kevin Jennings.

You know, teams will have more. They'll have the full off season to prepare from now. The schedule is a little bit tougher than it was a year ago, Kenton. How much harder is it to be the hunted than the hunter? It's exponentially hard. It's exponentially harder to be the hunted because the way that the hunter works, the way that mentality and that role works, Like you said, the biggest thing, teams had not seen Kevin Jennings and what he likes to do.

Teams had not seen, oh, he enjoys throwing this route pattern the most. This is where he enjoys going with the ball the most. And if you let him get here, he will kill you. It's easy to say that. Defensive coordinator said it about everybody. You could be playing, you know, the Little League team that Dono held from the Mighty Miami Titans of his Little League team, of his Little League unit there. And guess what? A head college football coach,

don't you let that Alex Dono get going up the middle. He'll destroy you. He'll tear you apart. The whole time you're thinking, that's an eight-year-old. But that's what college coaches do, right? If you watch the Catholics versus Convicts documentary when they were talking about how Lou Holtz motivated his team,

they said on Monday there was no shot. We had no shot of beating them. They were so much better than us. And then on Tuesday, well, if we execute properly, we could do it. So I say all of that to say. And of course, the confidence level increased every day till Friday the other team. They were going to win by 50. But this is how it works for everybody.

Last year, you could say till you're blue in the face, oh, SMU is going to get you. They're going to get you. But teams would look at them and say, what's an AAC team? Subconsciously, teams would have that in the background. That's American campus team, man. There ain't one of us for real. And then all of a sudden, you look at the scoreboard at the end of the game. You say, well, now what the hell of them happened?

This year, you're expecting them. They've arrived. They've arrived. So it's that going from wearing the white hat to going to wearing the blacking. It's the nation didn't rooting for you saying, oh, that lovable SMU is so good to see them doing well. They're not quite in that territory yet, but they're approaching that territory where people are like, all right, okay, SMU. Now we've got to find reasons to criticize you. So the teams around the conference are looking at them,

all lies on them saying, okay, we hear you. We hear you knocking a lot like how we talk about Fran Brown on a recruiting trail yesterday, where we said, him landing Calvin Russell, now puts everybody on notice and say, if Syracuse in that top five, now we got to beat them out. We can't just say, I'm a dirty Mac, Michigan, in Oklahoma, and Ohio State and land a player. No, no, no, no, no.

I've also got to be weary of Syracuse. It's the exact same thing. but that's a mute issue. You know, we had yesterday was maybe the most Syracuse focused episode we've ever done because Fran Brown just pulled off the biggest recruiting victory, arguably in Syracuse history, at least in the last 25 years landing a verbal commitment from Calvin Russell. So we've got some new Syracuse followers, and I think this is going to be interesting to them. A couple of notes on how ESPN sees Syracuse this upcoming season.

and a bigger picture, Kenton, looking at a few teams that they consider to be legit college football contenders, college football playoff contenders in the ACC, a bunch of teams that can get there if they get a lucky break or two, and then a whole bunch of teams

they're going to be fighting for six and six in their words. You want to keep it locked. We're only getting started on this brand new episode of Lockdown ACC. Folks, the only ticket app that Kenton Gibbs and I use is game time. There's no reason to use anyone else. we're getting the best features, the best technology, the best prices, and the prices at game time.

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I host Locked on Keynes covering all things University of Miami. So, you know, Kenton, we knew this already from looking at the SP Plus and all the ESPN metrics. So Clemson, who's favored to win the ACC, and I think a hefty favorite, they have the highest percentage of returning talent in the entire country at 80%. 80% of their too deep returns from last season. The ACC is actually above average in that. The national average in college football is only at about 53% returning talent.

The ACC's average is closer to 60. So I think that's a good sign overall. for the conference. But I would not have guessed this. And maybe I should have, because I think my guess would have been probably Cal or maybe North Carolina in terms of who returns the lowest percentage of their talent. I mean, UNC, the high profile coaching change, a lot of transfers out. You know, when the Belichick era began, Cal had like half of their, literally more, I guess, almost half of their roster left. But Syracuse. Syracuse returns the lowest percentage of talent in the country at just,

or in the ACC, I should say. I don't know about in the country, but Syracuse returns only 46% of their production from last year. Now, you and I both agree, we stand by this. So we love the way Fran Brown coaches and the way he's building that program. And he's scoring bigger recruiting wins than any of his predecessors in this millennium have gotten, right? But at the same time, how much of a step back can Syracuse, who's got the toughest schedule in the ACC and the lowest percentage of returning talent, how much of a step back from 10 wins last year, including the bull win?

How much can they afford to take in terms of a step back without stunting the growth that Fran is creating there? Well, I think that that's a multi-part and layered question. How much of a step back can they afford without stunting the growth? I'm not sure. Because I feel like recruits are aware of the fact that, hey, you're playing half of last year's college football playoff without a quarterback who has a starting experience, without a running back that has starting experience, without any of your top three to four receivers from last year, without like you're losing so much that to say, oh, yeah, you're just. you're you know the recruits are expecting you to be excellent this year and if you're not you know that's going to be a problem well then those recruits are not being realistic with themselves so how much of a step can they afford to take back i i'm not sure but you know they're going to be doing the

cha-ta slide backwards with all due respect it's going to one hop this time um two hops this time it's going to be multiple leaks back here because this is going to be a serious problem for them. We're not just talking about a lack of production returning. If they had a lack of production returning, but the exact same schedule they had last year, I would be comfortable saying, you know what? I think Fran Browbrow still muster up at least seven to eight out of that group. With what we are seeing from, who's going to be the start quarterback, Angelie, college? Okay, Angelie. How many games? How many games? Has Enjali started. I don't think he started any. He's played a lot.

of relief. Okay. La Quint Allen, is he coming back? Okay. So we know, we know Gaston, Pena, you know, all these guys meets the company, we know all these guys are gone and we know on top of them being gone, we're looking at a situation where the schedule is exponentially harder than it was last year. It wouldn't be fair. It, excuse me, it wouldn't be fair or right to say to this team, hey, we're expecting you to be on par with what you were last year. And I will tell you, if they are on part with where they were last year, Fran Brown deserves coach of your consideration. I don't care who wins the conference.

I don't care who does what. He at least needs to be a finalist for coach of the year. If they are a 9, 10 win team again based upon how much they lost and how difficult this schedule. You're right. I mean, we gave the reasons why, based on what he's done the last couple of years, why Rhett Lashley may be like pound for pound the best coach in college football. But if Fran gets to nine or ten wins with this schedule, build the man a statue in Syracuse.

Like, he's going to deserve that. Oh, man. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'll tell you what, honestly, don't just build him a statue. Get him a lifetime contract. Get him in a 360 deal that he cannot leave. Because guess what?

If he has success this season, Dono, do you not imagine every major school that has a coaching opening will be calling for him or won't be calling for him? every single, if Billy Napier actually ends up on LinkedIn this year, guess what? The Gator's going to be calling. He has a track record in the southeast. If something happens where Michigan figures, and Saramore just ain't the guy. He just ain't the guy.

We want to fully purge everything from that Harbaugh era and all like that stuff. You think they're not going to be calling for a coach that had a Comacord that everybody thought, oh, he was the problem. He was what was holding Ohio State back. you had a bunch of guys who transfers that may not have been starters or may not have been the guy at their old school. And then you flip that with the next season saying, I'm going to take career backup Steve Angelie,

who could not start over Riley Leonard that objectively last year, he wasn't great. He wasn't great. He was fine, but he wasn't great. Take that to blood. Every major school that has a coaching opening is going to be called. So, all right, here's, they've got a bunch of teams on these ESP, end preview that are either conference contenders or, you know, teams that need a break or two to go

their way. But then I'm looking at this category at the bottom here, just looking at a pass to six and six, which is essentially a nice way to say, these are the teams that do not have a chance to compete for the ACC, but they're trying to get to a bowl game is what they're saying here. Let me see if you disagree with any of these. So they got Boston College in that mix, which, you know, Bill O'Brien heading into his second year. there. Syracuse, you know, for the reasons that we just got discussed with the schedule, Virginia Cavaliers, and Wake Forest Demon Deacons, and the Stanford Cardinal. Those are the five. Now, so notably excluded from that list is Cal. They've, despite all the players that Cal lost,

despite all the travel, they do not put Cal in that category that Stanford is in down at the bottom, they think Cal has a chance if they get a couple of breaks to maybe contend this year. But the five teams I mentioned are the teams that they're telling us, there is not a chance. You know, I don't disagree with any of those teams being there, but I do feel like Kyle needs to be in that group as well. For the simple fact that, Carson has not proven himself to be anything special as a play caller. To the point where you're like, hey, he's going to elevate this team over what they had last year, especially given the same things that we had against Syracuse.

many of those same things it is the only the biggest difference is cow's schedule is a lot easier they play a few island of misfit toys community college university that's that's the only reason why i can feasibly see this without saying we need to start drug testing these riders at espin that's the only reason that's pulling me back because their schedule is filled with some cupcakes but even still i mean hey a cupcake against a butter knife it's still not you know it's not exactly the easiest matchup in the world here. So I get where they're coming from, but I think Cald needs to be in that group as well.

The rest of these teams for obvious reasons. I mean, Stanford and all the problems that they have, a temporary coach, all of it, any player that could play elsewhere darn near left already. I mean, you're looking at Wakeford, brand new coach, all that good stuff. They're looking at a lot of teams at this bottom of the list that are, it makes sense that they're going to be scrapping for six.

But I just think that they have one glariole mission. Now, I think the most interesting part of these three categories are the teams that are in the middle, the teams that are, as they described, like a couple of breaks away from making a run. So before we get to that, do you agree with the four teams that Bill Connolly and ESPN consider to be ACC contenders and thus college football playoff contenders? And those four are Clemson, Miami, SMU. we talked about all their reasons why and Louisville i'm glad they included them because again that's a really talented team with one of the most dynamic running back duo who's in the country and i think a pretty good quarterback who joins that squad so uh do you think that all four of those can contend for a conference title i agree those four did they leave somebody that are the main um heads of a snake

And if I were a more foolish man, if 2024 did not happen, I would throw Virginia tech in that group. If I did not feel like, oh, look, it's Groundhogs Day. I'm believing in Kairan Jones again. I would put them in that group because, again, he's a dynamic guy, but he's starting to remind me of Eddie Richards in life. He's starting to remind me of a guy that's wrong, oh, he's got all the tools. The tools are there.

The tools for greatness are right there. It's like, okay, but at some point in time, the potential has to be fully potential. You have to be, you have to, you know, be from a guy that he shows flashes to, no, he shot a flash guy. That was just Lamar. You could watch it incompletion from Lamar and say, oh, he's got the good. He's got the stuff. We're not really seeing that from him. So I'm okay with leaving Virginia Tech out of that group.

While the other teams that were left out, I don't think that there's serious contenders to winning a year. But I do think that those four are absolutely. So let's talk when we come back about, you know, the biggest group here. And those are the teams that are a break or two away from making a run. You want to keep locked right here. We're not done yet on this and new episode of lockdown ACC. Kenton Gibbs headlining the group that they say Bill Connolly of ESPN says is a couple of breaks away from making a run. The first team he notes are the Florida.

state seminals, which is interesting. A lot of the conversations we've had with Brian Smith, hosts of Lockdowns, like, he makes it sound like there's no way they're going to contend for an ACC championship. Like you're looking, try to get bowl eligible this year. But Bill Connolly is, you know, he's basically saying Kalin DeBore is trashed and that Nick Sabin can't save Alabama. And that I dominated this conference last year. on Boston.

Like, you did what? And I know you like casting. And so do I. But this guy, his match. He's right, checks that his butt can't cash, his left tackle's butt, can't cash,

his right guards, but can't cash. None of them have enough behind to cash these checks. Nobody. That thing is going to bounce like a basketball in the NBA.

No way. That Florida State makes, I believe. And let me tell you something. You talk about Bradson's, Smith, everybody likes to, you know, criticize, talk about what Lockstone is, right? There was only one out that said,

this is going to be a two to three wins in the beginning of the season, in the beginning. And it wasn't even us. I'd love to take credit for it. It wasn't even us. Brian Smith told everybody early in the season, that's it. That's it.

And what did they go on to do? Two and team. I am telling you. right now, there is nobody that works harder. There is nobody that is more detail in this game for their team than Brian Smith. And if he's telling you, hey, this ain't it. If you don't believe me, go back to last year after the Georgia Tech game. Come here and watch.

Come here. After the Boston College game, come here and see what happened. You don't believe it? I don't believe it. It's funny you say that about last year because you're so right. Like, even I'm the Miami guy and even after Florida States, oh, and two stars out. It wasn't until the third or the fourth loss.

I'm like, all right, maybe Brian was right about this. I didn't see running the table, but I didn't feel like that was ridiculous. I'm like, hey, they don't have a tough of schedule in the world. They didn't get five, six. and lo and behold, they didn't even scratch five. They didn't even sniffed five. So I'm telling you, that team, you know, we're talking about a team that, to me,

I think seven to eight wins is a phenomenal season. I think seven to eight wins, you have done your big one, you have done amazing. But you were talking about a team that I don't know what happens to them on that game one against badmama, especially given the bulletin. board material. Ice Q wrote a song where he was dissing

Jerry Heller and Easy E in them. And that, you know, the title of it was no vast leave. I will let you imagine what that actually means. I imagine that what's going to happen. You love to sit up here and say, oh, look at us being wrong. Look at ACC.

What are the OCC? I love to call my granny up and brag. Oh, you see how you're tired. Godfee and Granny. I just saw this weekend. I just don't think it's going to shake out by the way. So I don't think after the way that they get beat in game, most likely, I don't see a world where they toss back and full force after.

By the way, I just want people to know we do have to revisit this ESPN preview later this week because you could probably do a whole show or at least two-thirds of show on the Miami angle of it because like Bill Connolly, like Bill Connolly doubts his own data. Like when he, when he's talking about Miami, he's like, as Mario Cristobal gets his whole,

that's what Miami does. It makes you crazy. I've been a Miami fan my entire life. Like that program makes you crazy. So we'll have to die back into that. But in terms of the rest of the, the teams in the category of a couple of breaks away from a run, let me give you the rest and tell me if these all belong here.

Duke Blue Devils are in there. NC State Wolfpack are in there. Georgia Tech is in there. As the Georgia Tech is in that group, and Pittsburgh and Cal are both in that group. Today, I think we already talked about the Cal angle of it, but how do you feel about the rest of that mixed teams that are a couple of breaks away from making a run?

Georgia Tech should either be the highest of this group or the lowest of the last week. They should be the highest of it, I believe. They should either be the highest of this group, the lowest of the contenders because there are plenty of worlds where Georgia Tech is a legitimate contendent. Again, Georgia Tech still scares me from a depth standpoint at some important positions. But what we have seen from Georgia Tech, if the best indicator of the future is past behaviors, we have seen this team consistently get better, consistently grow, consistently when recruiting battles, you're like, wait, they got who? They won who up out of Georgia? So you're

looking at this team and you're saying to yourself they have a quarterback that is coming back that has done this thing they have a starting running back that has been a bailout that has done this thing they have done this thing in the past i'm looking at this group and i'm saying my expectation for y'all is to be at the top of this group bottom of contender if you would have told me georgia the tech is in the contiguous group i wouldn't have been upset about that now i would have been upset about that long. If you tell me at the top of this middle of the pack, this service, and you are telling

me you don't know ball. Now, granted, football is a game where it's a gladiator sport. Injuries happen, and like I said, I have concerns about that at some key positions. But with that being said, if they stay healthy in those key positions,

this team, I have no doubt in my mind at least eight to nine, at least, eight to nine. Miami who has seen Miami improbably lose Georgia Tech each of the last two years. And I know from two years ago, everybody

will say, oh, Miami lost because Christobald didn't take any need. There was a lot more to do it than that, because Georgia Tech was ahead from most of that. There's a lot more more. One of the shrewdest game planning teams, and they're always so prepared to turn your

strengths into weak is impeccable game planning give a lot of credit to Brent Key and his staff for that they're always super prepared so I classify george because you talk to debt concerns and all that that's a that perennially overachieves and I think they do that through great preparation and and really good coaching like they usually punch above their weight and for that reason I don't think I would put them in the contenders category the true contenders category but I agree with you I think they belong to because they'll usually win a couple of extra games they probably shouldn't win but then if they're able to turn that into instead of winning like two games they shouldn't

win three games they shouldn't win that they win and yeah they could be knocking on the door to play for an ACC championship absolutely they then have an upset over in Georgia last year three yards three yards they went to eight overtime but they can hurt just one extra, extra attempt. All of a sudden, they win that ballgame. So I look at this and I say, this is Georgia State Activity. They have the making, you know,

as the old, I believe it was Curtis Mayfield. So on the makings of the beauty. This is the makings of a contender. There's just, there's just certain pieces. And if we're going to say it about Miami, we've also got to say about Georgia State. Miami has always been a spot where it makes sense, but they have not gotten over the hump.

Georgia Tech has been on the opposite side of that spectrum. They've always been a team that we're like, they're punching above their weight, but can they hit that next step? Can they hit it? They haven't been to an ACC check. So just because they're on the opposite end of the spectrum time-wise, as Miami does not mean you get a pass

for not getting over the home. They're right there. They're right there. I really intrus to believe that. They're right there, but can they get it done and get it over? Well, said. Well, we appreciate everybody tuning in. We'll be back. Definitely by Friday, if not before then. I'm finally, Kenton, I'm finally coming back. I'm completely, my bank accounts, they're in the red. I got to come home at some point. So I will be coming back on Thursday. So probably next episode will be on Friday. We talk a little bit more about the polarizing nature of Miami when it comes to their ESPN prediction. Make sure everyone. checks out. Kenton Gibbs is on Lockdown,

and Wollack. Check me out on Locked on Cennels. Make sure you make that your second listen. And we'll talk to you next time on another episode of Lockdown AACC. We are part of the awesome Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team, every day.