Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Al Golden and Patrick Graham are the finalists for Bengals defensive coordinator: Who is the best fit?

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Thursday morning, we learned that Notre Dame defensive coordinator Al Golden and former Raiders defensive coordinator Patrick Graham are the two finalists for the Cincinnati Bengals' defensive coordinator job. Jake Liscow and James Rapien unpack the backgrounds and coaching philosophies of the finalists and some pros and cons for each, like Al Golden's familiarity with the Bengals being a double-edged blade, and Graham's experience with a wide variety of successful NFL defensive coaches.Join the Locked On Bengals Insider Community! https://joinsubtext.com/lockedonbengalsFind and follow Locked On Bengals on your favorite podcast platforms:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-bengals-daily-podcast-on-the-cincinnati-bengals/id1159723162Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7AObc0lh0WmQl5fJVgtajsGoogle Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vbG9ja2Vkb25iZW5nYWxz?sa=X&ved=0CAYQrrcFahcKEwio_sXtj8nuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAgStitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-bengalsSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Turbo TaxReady for stress-free taxes and the most money back, guaranteed? Head over to TurboTax.com today and get matched with your Expert—who’s ready to take your taxes off your plate, so you can focus on your day.LinkedInLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/LOCKEDONNFL. Terms and conditions apply.PrizePicksDownload the app and use code lockedonnfl to win $50 instantly when you play $5. You don't even need to win to receive your $50 bonus, it's guaranteed! Prizepicks. Run Your Game.Click Here: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/LOCKEDONNFLGametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms Apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.FanDuelYou can start the season with a big return on FanDuel. New customers can place a FIVE DOLLAR bet and you’ll get started with TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS - if you win your first FIVE DOLLAR BET ! Visit FANDUEL.COM to get started. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Cincinnati Bengals defensive coordinator search has its finalists. Let's break down Al Golden and Patrick Graham. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liscoe. He's your host, James Rupin, and we are Locked on Bengals on the Lockdown podcast that we're covering your team every day on.

YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast. Welcome back to the everydayers. Appreciate those of you who make lockdown Bengals part of their daily routine. You've heard us talk about this DC search for almost two weeks now. And now we're down to some finalists for that job in Cincinnati. Welcome back to those of you who make us your first listen as well. And if you're new to the show and you're interested in learning about Al Golden and Patrick Graham and whether the Bengals have cast a wide enough net and are looking at the right candidate. and are looking at the right candidates,

well, you are in the right place for what's going to be a very exciting offseason with a lot of decisions to make for this team over the next few months. James, as we dive into the conversation about these DC finalists today for the Cincinnati Bengals, this episode brought to the people by prize picks

where they can get $50 instantly to play with with their first $5 play with promo code locked on NFL in the prize picks apps. Let's talk about it. about how we got here. There hasn't been a whole lot of noise around this Bengals defensive coordinator search. We heard the initial two interviews immediately. Patrick Graham, among those, there was discussion about Matt Eberflus being quote unquote involved. There was a Wink Martindale rumor that was quickly shot down. There's been a lot of speculation about Al

Golden from the jump. And now we have some confirmation that it appears that the two finalists for this job are Al Golden and Patrick Graham. Yeah, and shout out to my guy. Drei Harris has been all over this as from the jump. He knew about Patrick Graham and the interest there early, early on in the process. And he was the one that made the report on Thursday morning Eastern time, certainly Thursday morning Jake Liscoe time on the West Coast.

But Patrick Graham, now Golden, the finalist. Spengels Talk.com, you can read that initial report. But, yeah, I think it lines up. Like, I think that's what's interesting isn't the right word. But when you look at their search or lack thereof, it's not like they brought in Matt Iberflus for an interview, right? It's not like we McIntanale interviewed, and obviously that was shot down, like you mentioned. We haven't heard Jim Leonard's name mentioned.

The Broncos have been eliminated for days. It's not like it takes days to schedule an interview. And you look at it and it's like, oh, well, clearly they had a short list. And as of now, you're looking at Covington, who could be a contetta for the defensive line coach job, Patrick Graham and Al Golden. And Golden's preparing for the national championship against Ohio State. He's got plenty to think about, worry about when it comes to stopping that Buckeyes offense. And boy, oh, boy, what if he does? but yeah, I think that the Bengals are leaning that way.

A lot of people felt that way that they would. And Al Golden, who was here in 2020 and 2021, it feels like is the favorite for this job. That doesn't mean that I won't go to Patrick Graham. But I think that these are the two guys that they clearly were focused on from the jump, maybe before the jump. And the one thing I'll ask you, like, what is your, is it good that they had a short list and they said hey this is what we're looking for and because Patrick graham's well respected across

the league. Al Golden obviously they have a history with them. He's worked with young guys. Like you can see the the logic there. Is that good or is that bad that the list is short and they didn't interview 22 guys? We have no idea. It doesn't feel like a great idea, but we don't know. We don't know one who they've talked to, who the candidates were, how those initial conversations went. We know that there were two candidates interviewed and now they appear to be waiting for Al Golden. That doesn't feel like the correct approach. It feels like there is a familiar candidate to the Bengals and Al Golden who spent two years with the Bengals, who then went to Notre Dame and has built that defense up with Marcus Freeman as head coach and has a lot of ties still with the Bengals. It feels like there's still a lot of comfort there. And this is drawing some connections where we can't see the lines necessarily,

so this is speculative. But there's an ESPN article that discusses Al Golden's defensive coordinator rebirth, or his rebirth in general in Notre Dame on ESPN.com written by Andrea Adelson that I was reading this morning, James, as the finalist became clear. and describing how Golden got his job at Notre Dame is that Marcus Freeman have friends on the Bengal staff, and I'm reading the article at this point, who told him that Golden was an integral part of their defensive growth.

And Freeman said we had a brief conversation. I was intrigued. After three or four conversations, I was convinced he was a guy I wanted to lead our defense. So when Golden was working for the Bengals, before he went to be the defensive coordinator at Notre Dame, Marcus Freeman's friends on the Cincinnati Bengals staff were integral in getting Al Golden into the conversation for no DC.

That should be fascinating. Patrick Graham, a very external candidate, also a fascinating candidate for different reasons that we'll get into here. But that comfort that I'm talking about with Al Golden and the connection that has been obvious that I've been resisting this entire week, James, like, oh, yeah, they're waiting to talk to Al Gold, and that's been consensus. If you look around social media, if you listen to various podcasts, read various articles, that's always been like the most obvious connection.

Yeah. And for a reason. But I've been resisting that saying, like, oh, maybe it's a candidate that's still coaching in the playoff somewhere. Maybe it is Jim Leonard. And it's not Jim Leonard at this point. We probably would have heard about it. You're right.

And I was just hoping that they were casting a wider net, I think. when that's my resistance to it being, oh, they're just waiting for Al Golden, because that feels very preordained, right? And I think that there's some inherent resistance to that sort of thing. It doesn't mean it's wrong. We don't know how it's going to work out,

but it doesn't feel, strictly speaking, like the best process. Even if Al Golden is a great coach, and maybe he is, right? Like, there's a lot of things to like about Al Golden. We'll talk about that too. It just, my gut reaction to them not casting a wide net, is one of,

is that really the best way to go about this? I don't know. I've not done it, but it doesn't feel like it's very exhaustive. Yeah. I think you can make the argument either way, right? There's no doubt because on the one side, we'll go with the negative first.

Obviously, you want to leave no stone unturned, so you find the best candidate. You find the best coach because you've got to get this right. At the same time, on the other side of it, it's like, well, you know what you need. You need, you just say out loud what you need. You need a defensive coordinator that knows what the AFC North is about, ideally has experience, can relate to your young players and get the most out of them,

Miles Murphy, Jordan Battle, all of these guys, and is willing to lean on young guys. And then also, whoever they add, and they're going to be drafting defense, can maximize them from the jump to where you don't have any Daxil conversation, any Daxil situation, any, oh, well, where do you put them? You find a way to get your first round pick on the field, right?

And so that's what's interesting here. Because it could go both ways. And I don't know what answer is right. And that's kind of how I felt about the defensive coordinator search from the jump. We talked about this yesterday. It's like, okay. Like if you tell me out golden, it's like, all right, well, I'll have some questions.

Patrick Graham would have some questions. What would have questions about Matt Eberfluse? Would have questions about Robert Sala, by the way. Fit. Is he going to fit? Is his style going to work? Is he going to be able to... I would have questions about all of these guys.

And so sometimes it's okay to say you don't know, and I don't know. I also understand your feeling, and I think a lot of fans feeling of... Shouldn't you have done more than three interviews? And you can kick tires on guys without interviewing them. them of course. But shouldn't you have done a few more? And I assume they'll have to formally interview Al Golden, even though that might be pretty easy to do so. But I do have a question for you about Al Golden. And I'm sure you have plenty of other thoughts. But it's a question that I'm sure you haven't thought about. I'm sure the listeners haven't thought about it either.

So I'll ask you that question coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by prize picks. Prize picks is daily fantasy the way it should be. And look, the fantasy playoffs, they're long gone. But the actual playoffs are here. And that's where prize picks comes in because prize picks is the daily fantasy app that is going to make your life so much fun during these playoffs. With prize picks, you simply pick more or less on player stats,

like total passing yards, rushing touchdowns for a shot to win up to 1,000 times your money. You can make your picks in less than 60 seconds. And whether you're looking for a flex play to boost your payout or want to cash out quickly, prize picks has you covered. They have over 10 million members in billions. That's billions with a B in winnings. Here's a special offer for Locked on Bengals listeners.

All you do is download the Price Picks app today and use code locked on NFL and get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Download the app today and use code locked on NFL to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup, prize picks, run your game. All right, Jake, let's get to my question. And it's a really, really complex, logistical question.

Do you think Al Golden sold his house? I assume he owns a house or did own a house in Cincinnati. Do you think he sold it? Because that could certainly be a factor as the Bengals try to work out the right contract for the Notre Dame defensive coordinator. That's a millionaire. I mean, he's making a big time money right now for the high. Irish. Yes. He sold it. Okay. So he's got to go house hunting. Okay. All right. I don't,

I don't know the answer. I don't even know if he owned, to be clear. I just thought it was a funny way to mention it, you know. Yeah, I would assume that, you know, he's been gone for three years. I would assume that happened. He's still running? You think his lease is still going? He's like running on the banks. If it was a, if it was a Mike Zimmer situation where he had his retirement house in northern Kentucky, I feel like we would have heard about it. Let's say. Yeah. I think how Golden has uprooted or had uprooted previously when departing Cincinnati.

I had a transition and now it's gone. You thought it was such a big football. I didn't. No, I had zero inclination that it was a serious question. Oh, okay. You said it up too much. I think the big reason that they'll that they like both of these guys though

in all seriousness I asked around the league not just Bengals coaches but just around the league about Patrick Graham and not just Bengals personnel to be clear about Patrick Graham and they're like oh man he's so relatable like they love him players love him

I looked up I found a Adam Butler defensive lineman for the Raiders veteran guy offered big praise for Patrick Graham a while back when asked about his approach and things like that. And so I think that's what they're trying to find. Obviously, Al Golden's working with young guys right now in the NIL era. Is find the guy that's going to relate to the players, get the most out of them, be willing to shift things.

Like if you're Zach Taylor, it's real easy to be like, all right, well, this is what Lou is doing. Hey, Al, are you going to, what would your philosophy be here? You know, obviously, they still have each other's info. So I think that that's interesting. Like it doesn't shock me that these are the two candidates or the two finalists, rather. Even if they had done an expansive search, I think that they likely come to this conclusion, which is probably what the Bengals would have told you, which is why they probably didn't do, you know, a 10, 12, 14 person defensive coordinator interview search.

And I'm not even saying they needed to do 10, but like, how about six? Sure. Or five. And maybe there's one or two that haven't been reported. It's possible. Probably not. I find that unlikely. And like you said, it's certainly possible to kick the tires without doing a formal interview. It's possible that they have talked to Matt Eberflus and found in basic conversations that it wasn't going to be the right fit or Robert Sala or whoever the former head coach of preference was.

Maybe they considered Mike Zimmer, but they know him well enough and know where he's at in his career well enough that they didn't want to go down that path. And there's certainly familiarity with Al Golden. It's not necessarily a negative. Golden was around for the Super Bowl run before departing for Notre Dame. So he was around for the really impressive run that we saw from the defense in the playoffs that year and the game planning that went in to dealing with Patrick Mahomes in the AFC championship game. And so there's valuable experience there. And when you read, again, there's an article on AthlonSports.com that talks about Al Golden

explaining what makes the Notre Dame defense in NFL style by Joe Everett. This was written in August of 2024. And the position coaches in Notre Dame love the way Golden is doing things. The players seem to love the way Golden is doing things. but it's described in this article, which I found interesting, as the way they do the install is basically how the Bengals do it right now. This is one of the position coaches, Max Bula, the linebackers coach, Bollock probably names, Notre Dame linebackers coach,

describing the way they do install as the way the Bengals do it right now. And so there's a lot of that approach still in Al Golden's bag. And Al Golden had plenty of experience before he was looom. Ana Rumo's linebacker's coach. He's been a head coach of the college level. He's certainly been a D.C. He has that experience. But I did find that interesting that he's taken his lessons from Cincinnati and implemented

them at Notre Dame. Meanwhile, Patrick Graham, a totally different candidate here as we transition to that topic when you respond to this thought about Al Golden. Well, I think maybe that is part of the appeal here is, you, you know, you, you know, Because you want any transition to be seamless. Yeah. And so if the install is similar, but the approach is going to be different for XYZ,

because I don't think we doubt that Lou Annamo is a good coach, but there were clearly flaws. It's some of it his fault, some of it not. Clearly the Bengals want to get rid of those flaws. And so having the same install for, whether it's DeJon Anthony or someone that you're really, really banking on young player-wise, like a Jordan battle.

I don't know if that's necessarily a, not that you're saying it's a bad thing. It could be a good thing. He knows how they do things, for lack of a better word, in Cincinnati. He knows how the processes work. That is not a bad thing. That eases the transition, like you said.

One other very interesting note I found on Al Golden is the coverage tendencies for Notre Dame, the heaviest man cover one team in college football this year. We'll be fascinated to see how that holds, up this weekend. Is it this weekend the national championship game? Whenever the national championship. It's Monday.

It's January 20th. You can tell how much I keep up on college football, but it'll be very interesting to watch that. I checked the day. I checked the day after I knew Gold was a finalist. I was like, when is it? Yeah. When you know that, that game takes on a new light. If you're watching it from a Bengals perspective, by contrast, the Bengals ran cover one

man according to Football Insights, defensive coverages through week 17, 20% of the time, which is middle of the pack in the NFL. There's a lot of variety to the Bengals coverages this year. But if that man-heavy approach transitions to the NFL, that puts a lot of strain, obviously, on your secondary. And so it's interesting when you compare that to Patrick Graham's approach and some of the quotes in a great Ted Wend piece on the athletic, talking about his background,

that there's a different focus, I think, between Al Golden, and Patrick Graham, and I would wonder how much that transitions to Cincinnati from a schematic perspective. Like what would Golden bring schematically to Cincinnati as defensive coordinator? That is an answer that I really don't have at this time. It's unclear.

Yeah, and it's a good question. It's something that if it happens, I want to hire both of them so we can say it's Golden Graham. Golden Graham's. New sponsor, easy. Isn't that good? Isn't that such? I didn't put that together.

It's the last time you had golden grams. Hmm. They accidentally got delivered like a year ago. A year. Wow. I love cereal. I've been trying to lay off the cereal because obviously it's not, none of the good stuff. None of the tasting good stuff is actually good for you.

Oh, yeah. And it never fills you. Like, I eat a huge bowl of it. But I love cereal. Like, I could eat cereal every day. I haven't eaten it in a while. But here's, here's my cereal. take. It's a great dessert. Like, you want a piece of cake or some ice cream. Go for a bowl of cereal

instead can be just as satisfying and it's not a piece of cake or ice cream. Yeah, that makes sense. Literally at night I could crush some ice cream too, but some cereal for sure. All right. There's our minute on Golden Grams. Do you think that Al Golden or Patrick Graham prefer Golden Graham's over checks? That's next on lockdown. No, I'm just kidding. That's not But we're going to continue to have the conversation about the finalist. And why not Matt Eberfluse? I think people are wondering that. Maybe we can answer that as well coming up next.

Today's show is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. Taxes was waiting. Taxes was wondering and worrying if you were going to get any money back and then waiting, wondering and worrying some more. Now Taxes is matching with a TurboTax agent who can do your taxes as soon as as today. An expert who gives you taxes, gives your taxes their undivided attention as they work on your return while you get real-time updates on their progress so you could focus on your day, an expert who will find every deduction possible and file every form, every investment,

every everything with 100% accuracy, all so you can get the most money back guaranteed. No waiting, no wondering, no worries. Now this is taxes. Get an expert now on turbotax.com. Only available with TurboTax live full service, real-time updates in iOS mobile app only. See guarantee details at turbotax.com slash guarantees. James, before we dive into the why not Iberfluse topic and why not ex-like team candidate. Yeah. Yeah. Want to talk a little bit about Patrick Graham and why I think he's such an interesting candidate.

Honestly, I might even lean toward a preference to Patrick Graham, but that might come from an inherent desire to avoid coaches that have already been in the building, which has grown over the years of following the Bengals. But what I love about Patrick Graham's resume is despite the short-lived tenure of many of his stops, he's been exposed to some of the best defensive coaches in the NFL. Obviously grew up under Bill Belichick and learned a lot coming up in the Bill Belichick Patriots system and learning from how they approach coaching defensive game plans and how they approach learning about the game. But it's not just Belichick.

And obviously all the Belichick coaches that he's worked for. But he starts, and this is a Patrick, or this is a Ted Wynne piece on the athletic, he starts with learning the Belichick philosophy of taking away how offenses want to beat. Think about the way the Belichick handled Chad. Chad Johnson back in the day, we're going to double chat all day, we're going to make the other side beat us. And we're going to double chat. We're going to put our best corner on the other side, and we're going to make you beat us with your offhand. And that's what Patrick Graham picks up there.

Then he goes and works for Steve Spagnolo. Before Schnaugnolo comes to his greatness in Kansas City, this is when he's working for the Giants in 2016, but he learns the smagnolo pressure packages, which are about as Ted writes about it at the athletic, as extensive and as exotic as you'll find in the league. And under Mike Petten in Green Bay, becomes very well versed in quarters. And then under Brian Flores, back to the man coverage and crazy blitz ideas and mixed up fronts.

And then evolving over time when he's with the Raiders, going from a base 3-4 to trying to find ways to maximize Max Crosby in that system. And using a variety of defensive front looks and mixing up blitzes and simulated pressures and various games of the defensive trenches. A big trench focus is my takeaway when thinking about Patrick Graham. And one thing I actually like about both of these candidates that is certainly relevant to Graham is he has now two years of coaching against Patrick Mahomes, which is obviously an obstacle in the AFC.

And the Raiders have had a couple of games where they've frustrated Patrick Mahomes or been right there with slowing down Patrick Mahomes. And that is certainly something that I think you're looking for if you're looking for Bengals, D.C. So I think that the AFC experience is relevant for Graham. The NFL experience is relevant to Graham, the variety of DCs that he's worked with, the defensive minds in the NFL that he's worked with, and the flexibility that he's had and the scheme agnosticism, as Teg calls it in his piece, that he's developed through his,

time in the NFL are all really attractive qualities and something that draws me to Graham. But again, this is just schematic stuff. And we're lucky to have Ted, who's such a great film breakdown writer with the athletic who's given us this perspective. And I've linked the article on my Twitter account into Patrick Graham's skiing background. Yeah, I think, no doubt. I mean, and that's why, look, what if, and what's going to be wild is if Al Golden and Notre Dame give up 40 on Monday night, fans are going to hate the idea, right? They're just, oh, my God, he gave up 40 to Ohio State. Who did that happen to recently? Tash LaPoy, Oregon.

No, there's a coach that was hired to some job after getting blown out in the last game of the season. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Yeah. there's so many times where that happens i remember uh who was it richard sherman getting mad that that browns hired kevin staphansky over robert sala after the 49ers just rolled the vikings in the playoffs and he's like what what and it's like well it's not just based on on like the offense versus the defense it's who anyways

there's always layers to this uh to your point with graham yeah i think that's a huge part of the appeal is his experience, is the way he is schematically done things. And yeah, the raiders, the crappy raiders have given Patrick Mahomes fit some. I think what's interesting with Al Golden, if they do go that route, is the same thing. He was here in 21 when the Bengals were going on that Super Bowl run. And Germain Pratt and Logan Wilson were playing at a high level. And they were doing what they did to Patrick Mahomes in the AFC championship game after winning the AFC North and clinching the North with a win over the Chiefs. So he was part of that, which kind of shows how long ago that was.

He's coached three seasons at Notre Dame since. So, yeah, I think both guys are going to be asked and tasked to do that. And they each have different qualifications. The scheme part to Graham will be really interesting. And I'm not sure we'll get, I mean, well, obviously, we'll get some of the college stuff, but you can't run all the college stuff that you run at Notre Dame in the AFC. North. And obviously, Golden would know that with his experience with the Bengals. So I think that part might not necessarily, to the level that you have with Graham, you might not have that

example in next week, let's say, if they do hire Al Golden. As far as the why not Matt Eberfluse, or why not anybody, it wasn't just Matt, but I did get the why not Matt Eberflus. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why not Don't think he was ever considered. And that's why we We were surprised when he was kind of tied to the Bengals there for a few hours and we did that show on it. But I think that they might have kicked the tires on him. It wouldn't have shocked me if they did their due diligence, called around and all of those things and might not have been viewed as the right fit. Who knows? Clearly they have these other guys in higher regard for one reason or another.

I also don't think it's money. I will point that out there. Like if they hire Al Golden, it can't be money because they're going to have to pay Al Golden more than they pay Louie. And maybe a buyout. Just throwing that out there. I mean, there are some hurdles to the Al Golden thing. But I do think they wouldn't have gotten to this point if the Bengals weren't willing to answer those hurdles either. Yeah, they must have an idea of their ability to get that done.

I do wonder why we didn't hear about more interviews here. I mean, I think you hear about the interviews that happen typically, right? it's very uncommon because the agents want them out right now if you're interviewing you want it out there I think it's unusual for an interview to occur and for you not to hear about it in these situations

and there were a lot of names that I think the Bengals were interested in at some point and perhaps that changed after they talked to Patrick Graham and after they realized what they wanted with Al Golden. Hard for me to imagine there haven't been backchannel conversations without Golden informal conversations I'm sure Zach and Al Golden could have an informal chat for five to 30 minutes or whatever it's been this week.

And maybe they just realized that those were the candidates that they wanted to talk to. But I wonder what happened to some of the other names that we've discussed here that others have talked about that seemed to be names that the Bengals were at least interested in. And last thing for me, James, is shout out to this Twitter account. At Borough underscore S-ZN underscore. I sent you this last night. Ronnie Regula, who is a defensive assistant on the Bengals coaching staff, worked with Hal Golden in Notre Dame, at Notre Dame, from 2022 to 2023 before joining the Bengals.

And was one of the few defensive coaches retained. That doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it could be an interesting tidbit when we see how this thing plays out if it is indeed out Golden. Yeah. Yeah, that is an interesting tidbit for sure. I saw that yesterday or you shared that with me. But Golden Graham, are your team Golden or Team Graham? Team both.

Both would be fun. Regardless. Yeah, until we get the news and we might not get the news, this is our last show of the week. but might not get the news until midweek and next week with the game on Monday night. So we'll see. But the search continues, Jake, and there were now just two finalists, two guys that could be the next Bengals defensive coordinator. Until they're not. But we think, too.

That's the way this industry always works, right? It's like, yeah, there's finalists. And then something changes somewhere. Not that I'm saying. Not that I'm saying that's happening in this case. I don't think anything has changed in like 10 days. Yeah, I think it's been a few days, a few days at least. That Monday game, we'll be back before the college national championship game.

But that Monday game does take a totally new shape for me now, watching it in terms of Al-Golden potential future DC of the Cincinnati Bengals, which was probably been the case for, like you said, a week or so. But it'll be much more interesting to me that. national football championship game, that college football championship game on Monday. Anyway, that's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Until next time, thanks for listening. Ho-Day.

And have a good one.