Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - All-22 Takeaways: Joe Burrow in midseason form, Amarius Mims' first start, Erick All and Chase Brown's expanded roles, and still looking for answers on defense

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cincinnati Bengals continue to trend in the same direction. The offense arrow pointing up, the defense still searching for answers. Let's talk about what the film showed us about Sunday's victory. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked On Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liskow, along with your host, James repeat. being joined today by Mike Santagana.

Starting point is 00:00:39 We're going to get into the film takeaways from the Bengals' home road victory against the Carolina Panthers. Their first victory of the season. And it continues to point to the offense looking like the unit we thought it would be and the defense, well, having issues. We'll get to those issues at the end of the show. We're going to start with some of the positives on the offensive side of the ball. We're part of the lockdown podcast network here on lockdown Bengals covering your team

Starting point is 00:01:05 every day on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast. Shout out to the everydayers. Welcome back. And thank you for making Locked on Bengals. Your first list in today's episode is brought to you by GameTime, where you can save $20 on your first purchase of tickets in the GameTime app when you create an account and use code locked on NFL. You can find Mike's work on bengalstalk.com at Bengals underscore sands on Twitter and on the always game day in Cincinnati podcast. and Mike, we're going to start today with Joe Burrow, who to me looks like he is now in midseason form.

Starting point is 00:01:41 The pocket movement is there. Good decision making for the most part in this game. Even the one questionable decision he made worked out for a touchdown going in to halftime. Really in a high degree of control at the line of scrimmage, I thought, what were your takeaways when you watched Joe Burrow in this game? Yeah, the high degree of control, the operator at the line of scrimmage before the ball's ever snapped is what really stands out to me. When you're on the road, it becomes even more difficult to do that because you can't use your cadence as much. Or you think of like hard counts and getting defenses to show their hand as well. So he's using shifts and motions a little bit more to try to see what the

Starting point is 00:02:20 defense is up to before. He seems like he's in complete control at the line when it comes to setting the protections, getting himself into a position to throw the ball down the field and not have any free runners credit to the Office of Line credit to Zach Moss and the tight ends for picking everything up because I think they did an incredible job of that on Sunday. But I think the first thing that stood out to me was just he is in complete control, changing plays, getting into good looks versus everything. And then it does seem like he's in midseason form in terms of he's looking pretty good in the pocket. He's moving around. He's looking mobile. He's keeping his eyes downfield, looking to throw the ball. It doesn't seem like he's too run happy.

Starting point is 00:03:02 It doesn't seem like he's, you know, quick trigger or anything. Maybe once in a while you get to the point. He was like, did he need to check that down already? Or could he have hung in there and stayed on that read just a beat longer? But those type of things are nitpicking to me. I think he looked really good on Sunday. And it was probably the biggest reason that this offense was pretty awesome. Would you call him, quote, sneaky athletic?

Starting point is 00:03:28 Well, I've been watching him so much that I don't think I call him that. But yeah, I think for some people, it is. sneaky when he's running around back there because I do see the thing about like pocket passer doesn't move around that much like well he can even if he's not doing it every game for sure he can and I'm glad you brought up the pocket presence part because that that certainly stands out obviously you've seen him you've watched every snap of his career I believe certainly multiple times when it comes to to this game in this season how comfortable do you think he is with this evolution because I think we're going to talk a lot about how the offense has

Starting point is 00:04:03 looked in the things that are changing. You mentioned the Zach Moss, the tight ends and pass protection. How comfortable has he looked, and not just on Sunday, but in general, with this evolution with the Bengals offense? I feel like he's looked pretty comfortable. I mean, this looks the most comfortable he's been in something other than when he goes gun, empty, spread type of stuff. That feels like where he's at home to me.

Starting point is 00:04:28 But this, out of all the times, they've tried to have some other part of the. this offense, think of the siloed under-center wide zone stuff combined with what they were trying to do. This feels the most normal for him. And maybe it's because with the 12 personnel shift, they're doing some of the spread stuff, but they're also keeping it in shotguns sometimes go to pistol. It just seems so, you know, variable and multiple in how they can use the 12 personnel sets that I don't think it ends up creating a silo an effect where it looks like Joe Perra doesn't like what he's doing, but he has to do it. It seems like they finally found the marriage of getting Joe Burrow comfortable along with having a really effective run game. And I think that one of

Starting point is 00:05:11 the more impressive things to me about the direction they're going is they have all these different tools in the toolkit at this point, and they are calling on those tools differently from a week to week basis. They're a game plan specific offense now where they can bring a different approach to different games. We've seen this from them in the past, but it didn't look quite as diverse then as it does now. By the way, according to Andrew Russell, shout out for this stat, the Bengals are using 12 personnel on 36.4% of their offensive snaps, which is the highest rate in the NFL. And if I would have told you coming into this season, the Bengals were going to lead the league in 12 personnel usage, I don't think I would have believed myself because they've been one of

Starting point is 00:05:51 the perennial leaders in 11 personnel usage. The one thing we didn't see from them a ton on Sunday was a bunch of play action. They did use some more of the pistol. They were under center a little bit in that game, but they only had six play action dropbacks charted according to pro football focus. But what did you see from them schematically in terms of the way they were using their personnel differently, the way they were using their run game differently? And what signs of evolution did we see this week? Because it seems like there's something new every week. The biggest evolution for me watching was that Chase Brown's getting all the runs now. I've come on here

Starting point is 00:06:32 for the past, I don't know, year and said like, yeah, Chase Brung gets the designer runs. He gets the stuff where the tight end leads him, he follows, and he goes and makes a big play. Both of his touchdowns, those are running back runs. They ran split inside zone with five offensive linemen and a tight end coming across, and they ran duo with

Starting point is 00:06:48 Chase motioned in. I think it was 12 personnel for the other touchdown. It was actually 11. They had wide receivers attached to both ends of the line of scrimmage on that play. All right. Well, I thought Chase made a good block on that. I don't know if I want him putting his body on the line of the goal line all that much. I think that's what stood out to me, though, was Chase Brown is no longer like, no, he's, you know, the change of pace explosive, get a carry here or there where it's designed, you know, you're going to this hole, you're going to follow this guy, he'll lead you where to go. He's now making the reeds, which he did this in college, so it shouldn't be that surprising. But he's making the reads. He's doing the stuff that's difficult for running backs at times, short yardage. He's, you know, finding those hidden yards as well in those situations and being able to push forward and come away with extra yardage. He ran for over five yards of carry and there was probably one explosive run in there.

Starting point is 00:07:43 And the rest of it was just good, efficient running, making the right read and hitting the right hole. Yeah, I think that the way that they're using these running backs, it seems almost perfectly balanced. And snap count wise, it was much closer, more 65. 40. Obviously, they trust Zach Moss in the protections, like you mentioned, Sands. But ideally, is this the way you see it moving forward? Because I think there are a lot of people that see Chase and they're like, all right, Chase Brown needs more carries, more touches. You look up, he had 17 touches on Sunday. Is that ideal? Not that they're going to run for a buck 31 every week because they're not. But just in general from a percentage standpoint, you think that split

Starting point is 00:08:26 makes more sense? I think in any game that's closer, they're leading, yes. I think when they get behind is when you'll probably see the most Sack Moss just because he is really good in past protection. He's been beyond what he's advertised, I think, in past protection. Picked up a defensive tackle coming around, like

Starting point is 00:08:43 coming from outside of Alex Capo all the way across a couple of offensive line and gets him and then leaks out to pick up a first down. That was an awesome play for Zach Moss in this game. There are a few other newcomers like Chase Brown, like Zach Moss, Amarius Mamm. Marius

Starting point is 00:08:59 Mims made his first NFL start on Sunday. Eric Oll was tight end won by snap count for the first time in his young career, and his role continues to look like it is growing in this offense. We'll talk about some of these newcomers and their impact on this Bengals' offense and touch on the offensive line that has been playing well early this season coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Fandul. The Bengals, they might have won, but they are not favored this. week, even though they're at home against the Baltimore Ravens. We'll spend a ton of time on it,

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Starting point is 00:10:18 Let's talk about Amarius Mims first start. We'll talk about the offensive line on the whole, but those that look at PFF grades, which are not an insignificant number of Bengals fans, at least in my social media sphere and those that I see. I don't get to interact with them in person because I don't live there, unfortunately. But Amarius Mims comes in at a 54, the lowest graded offensive lineman with a 53 pass blocking grade, a 53 run blocking grade. I didn't come away with that impression when I watched the game live. I know he got beat cleanly at least once, maybe twice. I think both of those on inside moves.

Starting point is 00:10:54 But I thought he held up for the most part pretty well. I haven't had a chance to rewatch every snap, though, like you have Mike. What were your big takeaways when you watched Marius Mims on film? Yeah, the disconnect for me is 53-53 pass and run. He gave up, you know, two clean inside wins to Clowny. He's also spent the entire game facing their only really NFL-level pass rusher in Clowny. I think the other guys are, you know, work in progress. I mean, the Panthers are rebuilding.

Starting point is 00:11:27 not they're not trying to contend with this defensive line. It's kind of like the Bengals defensive tackles, but there's injuries there at least. So I thought that was a good game and pass protection in terms of like the run blocking. That's still just a work of progress to me where if he came out at 55 like that in PFF and you told me 65, 70 pass blocking and like a 40 run block, I would have been like, okay, yeah, I could see that because he just he just doesn't seem comfortable run blocking yet. And he didn't seem. that way in Georgia either. So when the game's a little fast for you in college still when it comes to run blocking, getting the NFL and the game just moves faster, it's tough. You can still

Starting point is 00:12:04 see why he can become a really good run blocker. You see some movement. You see some movement ability from him and movement generated from him in terms of power and athleticism. But it just feels like when something doesn't get lined up the way he needs it to, he's not really making a good block in the run game. Pass protection. I thought he was good. Maybe I have to watch it a third time, But when I watched back over, every rep against Clowny, give up two clean wins. And one of those, he got to Burrow. And Burrow, that was the interception where he made a miss and made a play. But overall, like, when he won against Clowny, it wasn't just because it was quick game.

Starting point is 00:12:43 It wasn't because of whatever. I think this might be one of those PFF things where they don't chart, you know, how difficult your assignment is and how difficult your job is when you're the Bengals. And it's a lot of straight drop-back protection. That's a difficult life to live in past protection as an offensive. tackle. But when he won against Clowny, there were definite wins. Like Clowny wasn't winning that if he got six seconds, let alone three. And along those lines, was it a situation where he was on an island for much of the game? I saw at least one rep where he had a little bit of chip help,

Starting point is 00:13:12 but it didn't look like they were giving him a ton of help either. No, not a ton of help. Some help. They're not treating him like he's, you know, Joe Thomas over there or Willie Anderson. But, you know, he's still getting a little help as a rookie. But it also looks like, it doesn't look like they're babying him as a rookie either. It's not like they gave him a chip on every play or anything like that. Plenty of plays because Borough likes and the offense likes to get five out in the passing pattern that he has to be on his own. And sometimes with the slide going away from him, so he's really on his own.

Starting point is 00:13:40 And I think that situation is when you can see the inside move because at least when you get the slide, the guard can give you some presence there. I think that's where he really needs to work is when the slide's going away from you and everybody's working away from you're on a true island. You need to stay inside up. can't overset at all in this situation because you got to make this the longest path to get to the quarterback and inside is the quickest path yeah i think it's pretty significant just the fact that he made it through the game and and got all those valuable snaps and i don't even mean health-wise

Starting point is 00:14:12 i just think that the fact that he was able to do that and uh and play pretty darn well i mean he gets he's getting a game ball i don't know if people realize that we didn't talk about the game balls in our post game show entire offensive line frank Pollock as well, getting a game ball. So let's discuss the rest of the line. How do you think they did? How do you think they performed overall when you watch the film stands? Yeah, really good games from everybody, I thought.

Starting point is 00:14:36 And I would agree that Mims was probably the worst of the unit, but the worst of the unit to me was like a good pass protector and not a great run blocker in that game. Look, if you're good in one element, I mean, that seems like something Bengals haven't had as their worst player on the offensive line in a game in a while. I thought that Karris, he had that one slip, and that's also part of the reason I think Zach Moss had to pick up that defensive tackle because he kind of got stepped on and tripped. But him and Kappa, I thought were solid and past protection. I thought they provided solid-level play.

Starting point is 00:15:03 Volson, there was some big wins, obviously the hold, but I thought he might have just, without that hole, he could have been the best player in that game for them, which that's a big improvement for what he's been in the past. I think that's showing some growth, not the most difficult opponent again. So this can be a big test this week when that's playing as Matt to B. and those guys, Travis Jones. And Orlando Brown's been good the whole year. He again played really well.

Starting point is 00:15:32 I think the stance change is one thing, but it also seems like last year he probably was really affected by that injury because you started thinking like, is this the guy you're getting? And instead, now it looks more like Chief Super Bowl Orlando Brown and not return on investment. That's something that's more than you paid for. Yeah. The growing injury for sure bothered him. factual. I know people hear that and think it's an excuse, but I'm glad you see it on film and you

Starting point is 00:16:01 can see the difference. Yeah. The other noteworthy performance on the offensive line, according to PFF grading, was Alex Kappa. He was actually, I believe, the highest graded player on offense period for the Bengals in this game with an 86.2 leading Joe Burrow there. So any thoughts on Kappa just to round out some offensive line thoughts? Hopefully I didn't miss this. too much. I thought he played solid, but that's a really good grade. So I might have to go watch his snaps again for a third time or something just to make sure maybe there was some plays I missed that were big time in the run game or something. My eyes were distracted by Mims or Jason Brown, something exciting like that. It's a classic case of the run game in PFF grading,

Starting point is 00:16:44 getting a lot of weight for offensive linemen, which is Bengals fans, is not something that we're used to valuing at a really high level. But they did have 30 running plays to 37 passing plays in this game according to PFF charting. And so perhaps this week, the run gave a little bit more important. The one play that stands out to me for really the entire offensive line was Chase Brown's first touchdown run, the interior, every single guy of one. It was Cordell-Bulson sealing off the backside. Eric all coming across and getting the backside end and Alex Kappa torquing the front side

Starting point is 00:17:16 defensive tackle out of the play, Ted Karras getting to the second level, and Chase Brown doing a good job of hitting that whole fast, getting skinny. and Nick Scott late to react. Nick Scott culpable for at least two or at least three, I think, of the Bengals touchdowns. Two or three of the Bengals touchdowns. It's not a good game for former Bengal Nick Scott for the Carolina Panthers, but a good play from the interior offensive line that really showcased their upside. And I guess the note there is, yeah, we'll see how it is this week.

Starting point is 00:17:46 You got two straight weeks of some pretty bad defensive lines, like some of the worst defensive lines you're going to see John Allen and Duran Payne for Washington at least At least there's some guys there that have been good but they haven't been as threatening as they have been in the past The last time the Bengals saw those guys four years ago I was much more worried about them than I was this year for example.

Starting point is 00:18:08 I still think that this week against Baltimore that competition level ratchets way up both interior and at the ends and so that'll be a good challenge for this offensive line that we're feeling very positive about early this season to show that they can do it against quality competition too. Because they struggle with Chris Jones. I think everyone's going to struggle with Chris Jones and the Chiefs. That was in week two.

Starting point is 00:18:28 But outside of that, they've really handled business, I think, pretty well. Also handling his business and earning a bigger opportunity is Eric All, who leads the Bengals in tight-end snaps this week. We will finish our discussion on the offense with some notes on Eric All coming up next and then get to what's going on with this defense, why those struggles are continuing. and the sad story that we keep telling on that side of the ball. We'll finish the show with those two topics coming up next.

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Starting point is 00:20:00 All right, Sands. Let's dive into Eric All, tight end one. The guy that goes from fourth rounder and everyone wondering about his health to getting cleared to now. I think everyone has mentioned Eric All that has followed this team in one way or another because of the impact he's making. Had another four catches. Obviously, they use him as a blocker. a ton. What has he brought the new number 83, Eric, on? What has he brought to this offense? He's the only tight end that isn't specialized in his role. He can do everything. He can do it all.

Starting point is 00:20:37 Unintended, baby. Let's go. But, you know, Drew Sample, he's a great blocker, but we know. He's not the most athletic guy to get out there and catch the ball. And then Mike Gisicki, pretty good receiver. We saw that week, too. Not the guy you really want. in line and they actually didn't test that against Washington. It didn't work. So why not just have a guy that doesn't tip off what you could be doing and that can do everything? He can line up in the formation, in the backfield. He's actually, when they get a 12 personnel, they want to, you know, a 21 personnel type look with a fullback. He's the fullback, even though there was that off-season discussion, Drew Sample's playing fullback. No, it's Eric also playing fullback. He's the one leading

Starting point is 00:21:18 through the whole. Sample's trying to be an extra offensive lineman. And it just feels like when you're role isn't so specialized to, yeah, he catches well, but we need to hide him here. Or he blocks well, but we can't really put him out on the passing pattern. You want to have five guys out there. Even if it's a chip, then release type of situation, Eric Hall can do that. He can block well, and it's not to the level of Drew sample. He can catch well. Right now, I don't think it's up to the level of Mike Gisicki, but being the second best at both

Starting point is 00:21:47 of that gives you a guy that you probably don't want to take off the field. And he's gotten better every week, and he's a young guy. getting him snaps makes him get better. It's kind of, you know, a nice evolution there where not only is the office evolving, but he's probably evolving as a player with the more snaps, the experience, getting better. And it just makes sense that if he's going to keep playing well as a rookie, that you just keep putting him out there because he's giving you good level blocking and good level of receiving.

Starting point is 00:22:19 And I'm not sure anybody else would be able to do that. I don't even know the last Bengals tight end that was able to do that. I think getting that from him early in his career has been something that has really impressed as coaching staff in terms of his ability to take an information and understand what his role is on a variety of plays. The snaps split is still pretty interesting for the tight ends while Eric Hall led the Bengals and snaps. He was out there for 29 of his 40 snaps to block in some capacity, ran routes on 11 of his snaps. So when you look at his production, four catches for 29 yards or whatever it was, I think that's it was. On 11 snaps, that's a pretty efficient rate of production for a limited number of routes

Starting point is 00:22:58 he ran. Meanwhile, Mike Keseki, by contrast, is out there to run block on two of his 22 snaps and ran a passing pattern, ran a route on 20 of his 22 snaps. So the splits between their tight ends becoming, I think, a little bit more stark as this season goes on, but they clearly feel like Drew Sample, along with Eric Hall, and we're highlighting Eric Hall here, are both their more versatile of tight ends with Drew Sample, nine of his 38 snaps in routes and 29 of his 38 snaps like Erichol in there as a blocker. But I really like the two tight end stuff with Drew Sample and Erichol. Just the ability to get those guys out there that gives you play action versatility, running game versatility, the ability to give you something in the passing game with

Starting point is 00:23:43 Erichol and Drew Sample's passwalking prowess where they can line him up in a number of places and are still using him some as a third down back in shotgun. I think those are some nice pieces that they have to work with on offense. Unfortunately, on defense, I don't have as many nice pieces to highlight here. I think Dax Hill is the best cover corner on the team right now, and that is something that we're saying after a couple of weeks. DJ Turner perhaps earning a bigger role with his large snap count this week, 52 snaps for him.

Starting point is 00:24:15 but a lot of the same concerns. And when we talk about why this defense is struggling, we're still talking about their inability to get pressure and the interior defensive line just not being good enough. What were your takeaways when you watch this defense about what looks like it is a trend at this point on that side of the ball for the Bengals? We'll start front to back because that's why I care about the Nost. But the defensive tackle room, yes, it's not the,

Starting point is 00:24:45 the best, but I also just don't understand the usage because Chris Jenkins didn't get in there until the goal line stand. And he's probably your best run defender now. Could be he's not, you know, conditioned up or they don't think he can take the full allotment of snaps. But when they went out there, they're still running, they were running a four three type of base the last week and a half. It seemed like halfway through the Chiefs game that kind of went, oh yeah, our defensive tackles, we can't do this to them. We can't put three of them out there. We got to get and having Keene Davis Gather come on the field. Well, they didn't do that this week.

Starting point is 00:25:17 They went back to that 3, 4, 5, 2 out front base, and it started with Tufelae, Guy, and Carter, and it didn't really work. I mean, once in a while, guys held up, but it's about consistency. And none of those guys, well, guys consistent, I think, but the other two, not consistent. And so when they hold up,

Starting point is 00:25:34 it feels like the shoe's going to drop about on the next play, where something bad is going to happen with them. Guy is giving you, like, solid, fine, okay, level defensive tackle. Like he's the replacement level that people talk about with like value above a replacement player. Guy would be the guy that is a replacement level guy.

Starting point is 00:25:52 And he's the second best defensive tackle, I think, right now. So that's not ideal. But they're also putting too many of them out there. I didn't really understand that going to that base again, if Jenkins isn't a part of it especially, hide the defensive tackles a little bit. Try to maybe just have an extra linebacker instead of an extra defensive tackle and your linebackers are a strength and your defensive tackles might be the weakest part of this unit.

Starting point is 00:26:13 But pass rushing, it felt like anytime they didn't send an extra guy, they didn't get any pressure unless Hendrickson did something. So that's how it's always been. Osai got some. I think he was better this week than last week for sure. I think Osai was worth mentioning there. But it comes in terms of the interior or nothing. And Sam Hubbard, maybe a stunt here and there, but it's kind of who he's been better run defending this week even. I think he was a good run defender this week.

Starting point is 00:26:40 But the pass rushing is just nothing really there. So they need some type of spark in this front to be able to become a good defense, but I don't see how. And they tried to send some blitzes. And some of them worked. They finally did that. It's called Rain in the Belichick World Pressure where they put everybody on the line. It's a zero pressure. But whichever linebacker of the center slides to drops out.

Starting point is 00:27:03 And that's when Jureen Pratt got the knockdown. And we've seen Wilson get a couple of picks on that play. So it's kind of cool to see him get back to that. But they need to keep finding ways to get pressure that. don't involve sending their four because sending their four isn't doing it. Yeah, as far as the defensive front, I liked how many times you said guy, hopefully he's not just a guy moving forward. We'll see health-wise with these guys who can suit up and who can't.

Starting point is 00:27:30 Hopefully they get some reinforcements this week. I want to ask you about Gino Stone, and I'm sure Jake has more on the trenches, and we can go back there. Did you see these bad angles and the issues that we've seen from him? on tape in Baltimore because I'm pretty surprised like uh von bell like all right he missed the tackle dx hill missing tackles fine he is their top cover corner though like not shocked about dj turner the two shocking things are cam taylor brit to me just getting beat badly a lot and then gino stone just not working like what whatever it is it just doesn't feel like it's working at the level that it

Starting point is 00:28:08 showed yeah i think once in a while you'd see a bad angle or you'd see a bad angle or you'd see a play where his limited athleticism showed up in Baltimore. And I don't know if it was just the pieces around him that were making, you know, rising tide lifts all ships. Maybe they just made him look a little better when you're playing next to Kyle Hamilton and guys that are working like a hive mind on defense rather than guys that are trying to do a little too much sometimes for their role. But I didn't see this as an issue that cropped up as often as it has in Cincinnati, where he's taking angles that just he doesn't have the essence to get there. And even if he did, it's not a good angle.

Starting point is 00:28:48 The last line of defense, you have to be able to take a good pursuit angle on a guy. I mean, that's, again, it feels like we talked about this last week, where he should know. I mean, you go over your angles and making tackles every week in high school and college, the NFL, and he's been in the NFL a while. So I feel like he should know what angles he needs to take, what angles to get there. but it just doesn't seem like that's clicked. It wasn't a great tackler in Baltimore. I think that I'm not surprised by.

Starting point is 00:29:18 But yeah, I think at least when he missed tackles in Baltimore, it felt like he got there and held up the running back, where right now it feels like when he's missing his angles, missing his tackles, he's not even a roadblock for that running back. He's just running right by him. Yeah. And that's obviously an issue when Von Bell's limited athleticism is showing up in certain ways that the tackle.

Starting point is 00:29:39 he missed in that game. There is a problem in the secondary at this point. The communication that they talked about all offseason doesn't seem to be at the level that you would hope it would be to make up for the athletic deficiencies that they've got his safety. And then Cam Taylor Britt laying an egg with probably his worst NFL game. I mean, to the point where he got benched and Zach Taylor didn't go so far as to call it that, didn't say that he was hurt after the game and he was asked about it, though, either. but you would hope that there's a reason for that kind of performance, missing Jans, losing the release throughout the game,

Starting point is 00:30:16 getting grabby in the route that leads to erasing a pick, or maybe it creates the opportunity for him to get that pick in the first place. And DJ Turner, like I said, playing 52 snaps to Cam Taylor Brits 36, and it wasn't all in Cam Taylor Brits spot because DJ Turner's playing a little bit all over the place. But just to finish our thoughts here in the secondary to stay at the back end of the defense, because I don't think there are major concerns about the linebackers at this point. What do you see as a path forward that gives them a chance in the secondary?

Starting point is 00:30:49 I mean, Kim to have to protest to play better, I think. That's really about it. I mean, you expect this guy to, I think most people were expecting to be the best corner on the team this year. And he played like that in week one and week two. And then week three and week four, he's been a liability, especially week four. this isn't the worst game of his career. I mean, that's awful because it could have been worse.

Starting point is 00:31:12 Andy Dalton missed a couple of throws that could have really put a exclamation point on his day. And also, it wasn't on the field every snap either to lose more. It felt like on that play that he grabbed. It's like praying. He just has an arm out there for what? I don't, I mean, maybe I just don't know the corner technique that 15 yards down the field. You're actually supposed to just grab, put an arm out and pray that, he runs into it or something, but I haven't seen a lot of guys do that.

Starting point is 00:31:39 So that was an ideal. And it just felt like, yeah, he got beat at the release point a lot by Deonti Johnson. I think what's most concerning for me was he was getting beat at the break point by Xavier Liget. And when your calling card is being a big physical corner, I don't think you get to complain about the receiver being physical back to you. Because if DJ Turner was a guy that got pushed off and like, does it really get caught? I just think, oh, yeah, Turner needs to go hit the weight room.

Starting point is 00:32:05 Well, Camp Taylor Britt doesn't. So you got to be stronger than that. I mean, he held up against D.K. Metcalf doing the same thing. Yeah, the style makes a fight, and Deonti Johnson's style just destroyed Cam Taylor Britt in this game. But even the style that he matched up with didn't work out for him in this game. So I think it'll be better. I don't know how it could get worse, but it needs to get better and fast. It's a good point because the Panthers have a lot of big receivers in general.

Starting point is 00:32:31 And you would think, all right, well, if you're bringing. DJ Turner in for Cam, it's to match up with Deonté, more than it's to match up with Xavier Leggett, but DJ, they put DJ on Leggett plenty. It's not like they weren't okay with that matchup. And so, yeah, it's interesting. All right. So the defense has obviously struggled a ton. What can be fixed ahead of a huge matchup against the Ravens? What's a realistic expectation outside of health, which we can't control and we have no idea about today. But from a film standpoint, scheme standpoint,

Starting point is 00:33:06 physical standpoint, what can happen? A, they show up like they did against the chiefs. I feel like it's the only game they showed up to tackle. That is just, they missed a bunch of tackles again this week. And that's frustrating when you've seen them make tackles before. So I don't know what's going on there. But they have to be able to make tackles to stop, you know, limit those gains. Derek Henry gets, we know this. When Derek Henry gets a full head of steam, nearly impossible to take down. If you can get to him and

Starting point is 00:33:31 gang tackle him around the line of scrimmage or just beyond it before he gets going, it's not as difficult to bring him down. But everybody needs to be physical and on the same page for that. I think, yeah, guys have to play better. I think you've got to get to that even front four, three base when the Ravens go, 12, 13, 21. I mean, I think the only reason Ravens might not lead the league in 12 personnel is because they bring in Ricard and play a lot of 20 type of stuff. So I think you're going to see a lot of base.

Starting point is 00:34:01 I mean, if you were attacking this Bengals defense, I think you would want them to try to put an extra defensive tackle on the field rather than Mike Hilton. So they're going to try to put them in base. They're going to try to run the ball. And you've got to be able to stop that. So how do you stop that? It's tough. I mean, without health, you've, I think you play Jenkins more first. And I think Lawrence Guy is an okay run stopper. Get that 4-3 base and get some movement, get some athleticism, get some better players on the field. I think that will matter. I think you got to. you're going to have to blitz them where if you couldn't pressure Jaden Daniels and he went 21 of 23, I mean, Lamar is at least as good, if not probably better as a passer right now in their careers. I don't think that's a hot take to say Lamar, two-time MVP is a good passer. So if you're not going to get pressure on him, that's going to be tough because he's going to do the exact same thing where it's not going to look good.

Starting point is 00:34:58 And that comes not just in the run game, but even if they are able to stop. stop the run, they have to be able to get pressure, manage pressure somehow, whether that's trying to get into, I think, 2021 when they just zero the heck out of them, something. They have to probably bring extra pieces to get pressure on him and just have a plan for if he scrambles. But I don't think they can try to cage him in and just trust that the collapsing pocket is what's going to stop Lamar Jackson, because I don't see that working for them. There is no collapsing pocket. We have not seen that in the last couple of weeks from this team. And we'll see perhaps they get BJ Hill back this week. Perhaps they get Miles Murphy back this week. And perhaps those pieces

Starting point is 00:35:39 can offer them some improved depth on the defensive line. But we will get those answers throughout the week. We will have those updates for you here on lockdown Bengals as we begin to look forward to this big, big week five, AFC North, first game of the year against the Baltimore Ravens. Until then, that's going to do it for this episode of Lockdown Bengals. Thanks to Mike for joining us. You can find him again at Bengals underscore Sands on Twitter where you will find links to all of his stuff. Always Game Day in Cincinnati Bengals talk writing as well.

Starting point is 00:36:13 And that's it. That wraps up our film episode. Until next time, thanks for listening. Ho-Day and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - All-22 Takeaways: Joe Burrow in midseason form, Amarius Mims' first start, Erick All and Chase Brown's expanded roles, and still looking for answers on defense

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