Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - At 4-7, the Cincinnati Bengals are what their record is, and this failure goes all the way to the top

Starting point is 00:00:00 The 2024 Cincinnati Bengals are a disappointment, to put it mildly. We know who they are. We will break that down today. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. One of the Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast at 4 and 7 during the by week. The Bengals aren't where we thought they would be. And it is time to discuss.

Starting point is 00:00:35 The team they've shown us they are. I'm Jake Liscoe. He's James Rupin. We are Locked-on Bengals, part of the Lockdown podcast that we're covering your team every day. You can find this episode on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to those of you who already know that. And you're in every day. Or those of you who make us your first list and appreciate all of you who make us part of your routine

Starting point is 00:00:55 and welcome into the new listeners, new viewers. If you're looking for consistent Bengals content, well, you are in the right place here on Lockdown Bengals and you can subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode. Today's episode brought to you by Fandall where new customers can win a $5 bet. When you win your first $5 bet, you will get $150 in bonus bets. Check it out at fandle.com to get started. And James, before we dive into the painful reality of what the Cincinnati Bengals team is and how they got there and all of the changes that likely are needed at this point,

Starting point is 00:01:33 we need to start with another unfortunate injury for the Cincinnati Bengals. DJ Turner believed to have a fractured clavicle. That is what the initial fear was when he went down and was quickly ruled out with a clavicle injury last night. Ian Rappaport saying that he will seek a second opinion, but it's likely out for the season. And it's another blow to a secondary that, and a defense, really, on the whole, that couldn't really deal with another blow. No, they couldn't.

Starting point is 00:02:01 They couldn't. And he was their best corner as of right now. You know, you lose Dax Hill. DJ Turner was making some plays. And it was like, okay, well, Cam Taylor Britt has turned into a pumpkin using Jake Lisco's go-to. And so you need Turner to step up. And I thought he did. I thought he played pretty well on Sunday night.

Starting point is 00:02:20 And so for him to suffer this injury, it stinks. It stinks for him in year two when you start to look and see, all right, well, can DJ Turner be a long-term piece? that's what the next six games could have been about. And instead, there's going to be a question mark next to D.J. Turner, a question mark at best next to came Taylor Britt, I would say, this offseason. I mean, you're talking about three guys that are on rookie contracts that you were hoping would be big parts of your secondary. And so that is tough. It's tough to overcome.

Starting point is 00:02:54 And it's one of those things now where I instantly thought, man, you know who we talked about months ago? and certainly when Daxel went down, it's like, oh, would they be interested in Zavian Howard? We certainly talked about him before training camp too, but would they be interested in Zavian Howard? Then they bring him in last week,

Starting point is 00:03:13 and there's some conflicting stuff there on what exactly happened. Feels like they tried to get him on the practice squad, didn't work. I don't know that for sure. That's, again, my feel of things. But probably should have Kadauraura, because now you might have to revisit that or revisit someone.

Starting point is 00:03:30 You need to get someone in here. at cornerback. And that's just, it's one of the many, many weaknesses of this Bengals roster right now. And cornerback wasn't strong to begin with. You lose Daxil. Now you lose D.J. Turner for the season. It is a huge, huge weakness right now. Yeah, not only for this season, but as you mentioned, the rest of this season, we're very, very rapidly approaching, quote-unquote, evaluation mode, where we're trying to figure out which of these pieces can be part of the core going forward. And coming into the season, the expectation was DJ Turner and Dax Hill will have this battle to figure out who will be CB2 across from Camp Taylor Britt. And Cam Taylor Britt was expected to take a step.

Starting point is 00:04:12 And you go back to our offseason podcast, James. I was a little bit more skeptical than some others about Cam Taylor Britt and just like needing to see that consistency from Cam Taylor Britt to feel like the expectations were placed upon him and the feeling from the coaching staff like, yeah, this is a guy that we have a lot of confidence. and him taking that step and being a CB1. This season was supposed to be about those three guys, Dax Hill, DJ Turner, Cam Taylor, Britt, being your secondary of the future. And instead, the two guys that showed some flashes, those showed some signs, showed some promise are now hurt,

Starting point is 00:04:51 and the guy that was expected to take this big leap and lead that room has had a massive regression season where he's still making mental mistakes in week 11. And that leads to one of the Chargers touchdowns last night where he carries a crosser that he's supposed to pass off. And so it makes the rest of the season for this DB room difficult in terms of just trying to figure out what those long-term goals are with the corners. And you're going to get a long look at Josh Newton now. But even if Josh Newton becomes a starter and he played a solid game of football last night against the Chargers, they do still need depth. There will be not necessarily another move coming over the by week to have enough corners on the team for them to feel comfortable and to have enough depth. But it's tough because of the blow it is to the future where you were hoping to have a really good feel for which of these guys on rookie deals could be solid parts of this defense going forward.

Starting point is 00:05:54 And I think the sample size, you had some flashes from backs. You played 262 snaps this year. DJ Turner played almost double that or just under double that. Yeah, 508 snaps. Ideally, you get full seasons from those guys and you have a really good idea of what they are and how they fit going forward for you. Yeah, it's a big blow. And it's one of those things that goes into now the bigger picture conversation.

Starting point is 00:06:22 Because the Bengals' front office is probably going to say, all right, we have two second round picks on rookie deals, a first round pick that showed a lot of promise at corner going into the final year of his rookie deal. Two of them are coming off of injury. One is yelling at his cornerbacks coach on the sideline after that touchdown and then gets benched. So, obviously I'm talking about Kim Taylor Britt. So where do they go from here? Is it a coaching thing?

Starting point is 00:06:51 How does the front office feel about these guys? And I think let's go there next. It's time for the big picture conversation. We know who the 2024 Cincinnati Bengals are. They've showed us what does it mean for the franchise ownership, the coaching staff? We'll start that conversation and have that conversation coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Zbiotics. Pre-alcohol probiotic drink by Zbiotics is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic.

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Starting point is 00:09:24 Cincinnati Bengals team is or isn't. And they aren't a legitimate contender. I'm not sure they ever were. They've showed us that time and time and time again, including Sunday night. And I think there's a bunch of reasons for that.

Starting point is 00:09:44 But the top one, and I think where we should start, and Zach Taylor are not talking on Monday. But when you're one in six and one-score games. And the one-win wasn't really a one-score game. You were up two scores. James Winston comes in into garbage time and scores a touchdown.

Starting point is 00:10:00 It's one of those things where it's like, all right, well, yeah, there are player issues, but it's the Jamar Chase clip that went by all right. Ask, Zach, I'm not calling the plays. It's my job to play, basically, and I'm paraphrasing. But it's hard for me not to look at the coaching staff. And that includes Luanarumo. who's watched this secondary outside of Dax Hill, who was in Luz Doghouse, let's be honest here, last year, in this offseason,

Starting point is 00:10:30 regress the way it has. But let's start with Zach. Where are you, how do you feel about Zach Taylor? Because he's obviously under fire today. I think at this point, and this was, I said this in the post game yesterday, this is muddied by the way they finished the game and came out in the second half and fought back. because at halftime it felt very clear that like this team just wasn't prepared and they were just going to see their season go down in flames without a fight.

Starting point is 00:11:01 Then they did fight and so it became a little bit less clear to me, but the first half doesn't go away because the second half happened. And the last few drives of the game and Evan McPherson missing kicks isn't Zach Taylor's fault. But the consistent issue with this team is coming up short. And we've seen this before with Zach Taylor. We saw it go away for a couple of years when this team was good, when they had better players, sure. And now the issue is back, where they're coming up just short. And at times we look just totally unprepared at the beginning of games.

Starting point is 00:11:34 And that was the case against L.A. They just got outgunned in a bad way. So even if there are things that are working, and there probably are things that are working, objectively speaking. If you take a step back, there probably are things that are working well within the building, within the game plan from an X's perspective, from a game management perspective, from a preparation perspective, there are probably things that are going well. But it doesn't feel like they matter right now. It doesn't feel like they're very visible right now. And what instead it feels like is you have a coach just saying, I still believe in this team, because you can't really say anything else. But if you're thinking about making major coaching changes this offseason,

Starting point is 00:12:18 I think about the Eagles who have bounced back this year to their credit, but when the Eagles chose to retain their head coach and kind of clean house for the rest of things, they bring in Vic Fangio, which helps a lot and then a very experienced coach there. But like that doesn't feel like the direction to go. And so if you think that the buck stops here with the coaching staff at some point, and I think that that's a fair thing to say, it feels like you're trending toward cleaning house and feels like you're trending toward major

Starting point is 00:12:50 major changes happening in this off season if things keep going the way they've gone this year and you miss a playoffs with Joe Burrow playing at this level and Jamar Chase playing at this level and blah blah blah blah the stuff you've heard us talk about time and time again. Yeah, I think I agree with you. In fact, I think Philly still screwed up. I think Nick Siriani is a liability

Starting point is 00:13:17 And when you get in games like this, like there aren't going to be many games where the Chargers are outcoached because they have one of the best coaches. And when I think about, oh, well, Lou has to go. And there's going to be a lot of people that say that. And I'm not going to defend that. What I'm going to say is, all right, well, does that mean Zach can become an elite head coach in the NFL, a high-end head coach in the NFL if Lou is no longer here?

Starting point is 00:13:42 And I'll just let that, let's say Vic Fangio. Let's just say he just comes to Cincinnati. Will Zach Taylor be a head coach that you like against Jim Harbaugh? Or like against Bill Belichick, who's going to be back in the NFL? Or like against insert Mike Tomlin, you know, the high-end head coaches in the league that are considered that for a reason. Andy Reid, Zach Taylor's been pretty good against Andy Reid. But it's one of those things that the Bengals as an organization have to ask themselves, deep down. is that going to be the guy to go head to head against it and I know 2021 happened that's fine it happened

Starting point is 00:14:23 that isn't proof that he's an elite headcoat is not and if you're not elite at enough spots you get what you get with this bengal's team where it's like a couple of elite guys and then you get a couple of things wrong and now the margin for error is just so bad because you don't have enough that can cover it I think there are coaches on this planet that could have this defense playing much better than it is. Flaws and all. That would get more out of Cam Taylor Britt. I think that there are coaches that would get more out of this offense

Starting point is 00:14:57 and this offensive line. Flaws and all. And I don't mean necessarily more production points-wise, but we talked about this yesterday, Jake, the feel of it, how Joe has to do everything, how he's literally a power lifter playing quarterback because he's lifting up the entire team and roster.

Starting point is 00:15:13 And it's not just him. Obviously, Jamar Chase is doing that. too and T. Higgins when he's healthy. But it had Chase Brown a bit on Sunday night. But it just feels so hard. And so that's what I think this organization really needs to have a discussion about because I don't think it's just one guy. I don't think

Starting point is 00:15:30 firing Frank Pollack suddenly fixes this offensive line. I think there's a front office issue. I think there's an issue with how much they put on Joe, even though he's never going to say, don't do that. Of course he wants it. He wants that. He believes he's that great. But I think what we're finding out is man, oh man, they're asking him a lot. They're asking a lot out of him more than any other quarterback. And how sustainable is that in an NFL where you're going up against elite coaches and teams with more elite players

Starting point is 00:16:02 and teams with just more good players than you have? It's really, really, really, really tough. And so if Zach isn't elite, and I don't think anyone listening would say he is, I don't even know if the Bengals organization deep down would say that, right? Even if they like him, do you say, all right, well, it's time, even though he's got a couple of years left on his contract? I think that should be a real conversation, assuming the season continues to trend this way, that they don't win out, all of the things that seem extremely unlikely at this point. Yeah, that's the caveat that we still need to throw out there, I guess, is technically it's not over.

Starting point is 00:16:41 Technically, they're not eliminated right now. Yeah, they got to win out. You know, like, who. It's real hard what they have to do. And if they do it, then they'll deserve a lot of credit. And we will have to change our tune because they will have done something very difficult if they went out. But where they are right now is they're losing close games. They're losing to good teams.

Starting point is 00:17:07 And you're starting to see the cracks when you listen to the way players are talking. The other difficult thing about this, I'd say, James, is the front office doesn't change. And for all the issues that you could talk about from an execution perspective, from a regression perspective, from a player development perspective, from an in-game management perspective, where we continue to see plays getting in too late and then having to burn timeouts because they can't get the plays in on time on offense. Why do you think that is? That is so weird to me.

Starting point is 00:17:44 It's been a consistent issue for the entire Taylor tenure. So I assume that it is a Zach Taylor issue. Maybe I'm oversimplifying there. But the other thing I was going to say is like decisions about who to play, where to play them, all these things, it's impossible with this team to separate the coaching staff from the front office because we don't know exactly where that delineation is. We can certainly blame the front office for the way they've handled contracts

Starting point is 00:18:13 for the players they've chosen not to play, for their contract structure, for letting guys, that leads to guys like Jesse Bates leaving, or for the decisions in the defensive interior with D.J. Reader, Sheldon Rankins, the decisions at safety with Jesse Bates and then Nick Scott,

Starting point is 00:18:27 then Dax Hill and then, you know, Gino Stone, and the stream of resources they've tried to dedicate to replacing a player they drafted that was really good. And this goes to the front office, and that doesn't even speak to ownership, where I started to talk about contract structure

Starting point is 00:18:43 and guaranteed money in these things. And those are all parts of the problem, too. I think we will get there. Yeah. Real quick. One more thing on coaching, and then we can get to all of that. For a guy that has preached culture, and culture, culture, culture, we have the culture.

Starting point is 00:19:01 We have the right guys. And afterwards, what was it? We're not going to make any wild changes at 4 and 7. We believe in our process. And fine, fine. He believes in his process. it. I know fans hate that. I also understand Zach's logic of not shooting from the hip because bad organizations do shoot from the hip or bad coaches do like, oh yeah, let's fire Lou. I don't necessarily

Starting point is 00:19:22 think firing Lou right now is going to do anything. What does that do? So I get what Zach's logic is. And by the way, I mean in season. How does that help Zach win now? I'm not sure it does, right? But when your second biggest star is saying this after the game, I think that it's pretty noteworthy. I mentioned it earlier, but I was able to load it in mid-pod, so we might as well just play it for our viewers and listeners. We just got to find ways to finish. Everybody, I just knows you. What do you do?

Starting point is 00:19:50 How do I do it? I don't know. That's Zach. Ask the coaches. I don't ask me. That's not my job. To finish? I play football on the field.

Starting point is 00:19:57 I don't call plays for us, you know, so I can't really do nothing. Do you think that's part of the finishing factor is plays stuff? I don't know. As Zach, don't ask me. I think that's pretty telling, Jake. Yeah, Jamar is going to give you his honest opinion. And he's obviously upset after the game goes away it goes. It's been a frustrating season.

Starting point is 00:20:21 I'm sure he will have a conversation with Zach Taylor. I think these guys earnestly do like Zach Taylor, but that's where I start to talk about the crack starting to show. That's a prominent example right there. Up next, we'll dive into the front office. We'll discuss the, oh, it's going to be a, tough one. We'll discuss ownership as well coming up next. Listen up, renters. Ever feel like you're stuck in the loop of rent payments just watching your money vanish into thin air? It's time to turn that

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Starting point is 00:21:28 That's J-O-I-N-B-T dot com slash locked on NFL. JoinBilt.com slash locked on NFL. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you joinbilt.com slash locked on NFL to start earning points with your rent payments today. So while we can acknowledge, James, that there's a problem that appears to exist with the way this team finishes games that is consistent enough that there's no way to go,

Starting point is 00:21:56 but to say that there is potentially a coaching problem there. There's a problem with player development that is clear. There's a problem with getting the right guys on the field and the right places. There's a problem with this, that, and the other thing from a game management perspective, that is pretty clear. If the season continues the way it's going,

Starting point is 00:22:15 I think we fully agree at this point that there will be coaching changes needed, and I don't think that either of us are very interested in the approach of the Eagles took where they kept their head coach and changed everything else. But as I started to get to, how do you separate that in Cincinnati

Starting point is 00:22:35 from a front office that has its own issues from guaranteed money to draft picks to free agent decisions, the front office is just as much a part of this letdown season as anything else. And that's where it's difficult because you can't fire the Blackburns. Duke Tobin's job likely still secure. I mean, do we really think there's heat on anyone in that personnel department? And those two groups are still part of the problem. Well, sure.

Starting point is 00:23:07 Of course they are. Collias Campbell should be a Bengal. Right? And that's just one example. But this is the same franchise that talked themselves into Jackson Carman. This is the same franchise that that same offseason a month prior, as their star quarterback was rehabbing from an ACL and after a rookie season, had a chance to sign Kevin Zaitler and made him a very unsurious offer. So that's that's what we're talking about. And it's been that way. Like you look at these contracts, you know, the Gino Stones and the Sheldon Rankins and they can get out of all of them. And that's why they say they structure things the right way, which fine with those guys. But your structure burned your second best player.

Starting point is 00:24:01 It kept you from getting him locked up where you could spread that money out, spread those cap hits out. And that to me is hurting much more. I mean, did you hear Jamar after the game with Evan? Like, hey, they paid him, we paid him all that money to make the big kicks. Like that, not paying a star like Jamar and then watching him dominate the NFL. I mean, Durwin James said, you're best in the world, told him he's the best in the world after the game. Joe Danaman had the clip from the field. Like, that's, guys feel that.

Starting point is 00:24:34 That matters. And so it's not just getting it wrong. It's being weird about paying the most obvious people in the building. Jamar Chase is easily on pace to be the best receiver in Bengals history. Like easily clearing anyone that you could think. I'm a guy who wrote the history book covering them about the Bengals. There's no one that's getting close to Jamar, assuming he continues to do what he's done in the first four years of his career. So it's just, it's wild to me to think that with all of that, they went that route and had all the messups and the mistake.

Starting point is 00:25:16 I just, I think it's, and I think they'll get something done with Jamar, but that's not the point. The point is, is that clearly impacted this year and it could impact the final six games of the season because of a mentality, business decision standpoint of how these guys are approaching things. Yeah, that goes to the contract structure stuff and the guaranteed money stuff that we're talking about. And it's not just even Jamar, but that's the latest piece of evidence, the straw that broke the camel's back, perhaps, from a culture perspective, for all these guys that you got to buy in and you had these special locker rooms the last few years in Cincinnati, it's probably still a good locker room. I think these guys like each other.

Starting point is 00:25:55 I think there's good camaraderie in the locker room. But it is not what it was in previous years in that locker room right now in the years where they were really going well, that chemistry is not there. And perhaps it's just because they're losing. Maybe if their record is flipped and they win some of these one-score games, we're not talking about this at all. But right now that locker room is not what it was, despite a decent level of camaraderie.

Starting point is 00:26:17 And it's Jamar Chase not getting his contract. It's T. Higgins not getting his contract. It's Jesse Bates not getting his contract. It's this, that go through the list of guys lately that they've drafted and developed and have been leaders and awesome players for this team. that they haven't been able to get these deals done, that has an impact. It's cumulative.

Starting point is 00:26:37 People see this. They're not dumb. And those replacements, Nick Scott, Gino Stone, bringing Von Bell back, drafting Daxhill, even though I think it was the right pick.

Starting point is 00:26:51 You're like, oh, well, we don't, we're not going to resign Jesse, but we're going to do that. Well, we didn't resign DJ Reader, but we got Sheldon Rankins. How did those work?

Starting point is 00:27:00 Like, if you're going to do that, you have to get some of them right. You can't just go over. Like think about, say this out loud. We can't keep T. Higgins, but we're going to go get Jermaine Burton. Like, no, you still, like wide receiver is going to be such a need this off season. It's unlaw. So even if you pay Jamar, that might be need number one.

Starting point is 00:27:24 And that is, it's wild to think about, but my goodness, you don't think. think that 80's the future. I don't think that or 81's the future. You could say 80 as well, but I think Andrea Yosevosh is fine. He's a fourth receiver. But he's not a two. And so I, none of the replacements have been the right, the right decision, the right choice. Which leads to this issue where you have like this contract issue with the front office, not being able to keep some of these really good players that probably the personnel department wants to keep. And then the personnel department is tasked with replacing them and then they miss or perhaps they're hamstrung in free agency and can't get the guy maybe they wanted Xavier McKinney or whatever like name a free agent

Starting point is 00:28:07 safety like maybe that's good I don't think I think Gino was their guy it's possible it's also possible that they know what they're dealing with from a financial perspective you know what I mean and and so like that's where their sights are like I wonder I do wonder but regardless the decisions they've made just for the most part just haven't hit and they did a really good job of this for Joe Burroughs rookie contract and then since Joe Burroughs rookie contract the hit rate has been far too low

Starting point is 00:28:37 and all those free agents that propped up that Super Bowl run that AFC championship run are either gone or near the end of their contracts or different players now. Yep. And they're going to be gone. You think Mike Elton's in stripes next year? You think, you know,

Starting point is 00:28:54 like these guys that like he's just not going to be it's not going to happen and well and then there's questions around tray hendricksson who will probably revisit his interest in getting off the team unless he's paid and then there's bj hill and then there's what do they do with sam hubbard dealing with another injured season and trying to play through it and what about you know germane prep what what do they end up doing in the second like i mean the questions are just so the list is so long they've just gotten it wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong, wrong, so much more than they've gotten it right. And you can't do that. And if you do do that, then you better be willing to spend your way out of those mistakes and be aggressive to

Starting point is 00:29:35 address those mistakes and fix those mistakes. Like signing Callias Campbell, we keep coming back to that because it fits everything but age, right? But it would have helped them overcome a weakness that they really didn't fully address ever. And it would have been a cheap way to do it. Oh, but he's old. Who cares? And so that's what it is. This front office, it's too damn hard to be successful in this league when you're like, oh, well, you need to check all of these boxes always and also be able to fit the budget or also be able to fit the structure or also be able to, it's too many things. It's hard enough when you have unlimited money, unlimited resources, unlimited scouts, unlimited. And so if you're going to have one hand tied behind your back,

Starting point is 00:30:17 you better not limit, limited to guaranteed money wise. You better not limit things. You better not limit things with age when it's pretty clear that he could have contributed like it just makes it too hard and and that that's part of it too is there's just there's so many limitations is the wrong word but it's almost like self self imposed limitations that they have and those things have really impacted how they've structured this team how they've drafted how they've done things in free agency with their current guys and in that's what we're seeing is we're seeing the the team that we saw a few years ago. That was flawed, by the way, in 21.

Starting point is 00:30:57 But it's deteriorating. And a lot of the guys that they are paying aren't living up to those contracts. And whether it's because of a lack of development or a bad coaching fit or picking the wrong players or financial issues, you have top to bottom issues outside of even the players themselves who also have their own issues and need to be held accountable as well. But there's all these systemic issues with the sense. Cincinnati Bengals this year that have really come to a head in a year where Joe Burrow is still playing at an MVP level.

Starting point is 00:31:28 You hear it every broadcast. Yeah, Joe told us before the game that he thinks he's playing the best he's played in his career. And he's not wrong. He's playing incredible football. And that's why they're in these close games against these good teams. But everything around him, outside of some of the stars we've talked about, of course, to excuse them, is just so deeply flawed. There are all these issues that have really piled.

Starting point is 00:31:52 up and is a big part of why they've come up short and they haven't made these plays or they haven't had the depth they've needed at certain spots or whatever it is. And as a result, that's your four and seven Cincinnati Bengals who have shown us exactly who they are this season. Jake, real quick. So Money Mac was obviously something that was born on this pod. I think it's clearance rack Mac for for a while now. I've seen a lot of suggestions, but that's a good one. Yeah, clearance rack Mac. until further notice is the one that I think I'm going to roll with. But there's been a lot of good ones.

Starting point is 00:32:29 And maybe we can have a little fun with that at some point. But clearance rack, Mac is the one I've come up with. I'm not having fun. No, that could be fun, though. You got to find the little wins. If you don't laugh, you'll cry. That's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. We'll keep going with some of these difficult conversations throughout this

Starting point is 00:32:52 by week. And the season goes on. We go nowhere. Until next time, thanks for listening to this episode of Lockdown Bengals, Hoodeh. Have a good one.

Starting point is 00:33:03 Wow, you said Hootay. Clearance rack, Mac.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - At 4-7, the Cincinnati Bengals are what their record is, and this failure goes all the way to the top

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