Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals Facing MASSIVE Contract Decisions on Key Young Players

Starting point is 00:00:00 We spent a lot of time talking about how the Bengals have to get ready for the 2026 season, but now looking into the future, they've got a bunch of extensions that they have to prioritize. Let's break those down in today's episode. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. He's James Rapine. I'm Jake Lisco. And today we're talking extensions for the Cincinnati Bengals.

Starting point is 00:00:36 on the Lockdown Bengals podcast, and whether it's DJ Turner and Dax Hill or Chase Brown, Jordan Battle, going on down the list, maybe even Joe Burrow needs another contract extension in the near future. We're going to talk about the most important extensions for the Bengals to be considering going into training camp this year

Starting point is 00:00:54 and into the future, because they have until free agency next year to figure out if these guys are going to be part of this team going forward. Today's episode is brought to you by Fandul. New customers can bet $5 to get $150. in bonus bets. If your first bet wins, check it out at fandwell.com to get started. And James, we're going to start with the young players, the rookie contract players. That's probably where a majority or the entire conversation is between DJ Turner, Daxhill, Miles Murphy, after the fifth year option was declined, Jordan Battle, and Chase Brown.

Starting point is 00:01:28 You could even go further than that. Andre Yosevosh maybe sneaks into this conversation in some worlds in the future. There are a bunch of Bengals on expiring contracts who have been major contributors to this team in the last year, two, three years that the Bengals will be considering for extensions after they just spent the entire offseason loading up on veteran talent to help try to get them over the hump in 2026. But now that we're looking forward, it's a very obvious first couple of candidates. The guys we've been talking about the most of these cornerbacks. And the conversation for me probably starts there. Is that the same for you? Yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 00:02:08 I literally pulled up before we started the top cornerback contracts because guess what? That's where the Bengals top players, extension candidates, that's where they're thinking. That's where their mind is. And DJ Turner doesn't have to be at PayCorps Stadium for us to know that. The number switched to zero, the mindset, the way he carries himself, he's going to want to be one of the top paid cornerbacks in the NFL. And oh, by the way, Dax Hill wants to play outside for a reason, Jay. And part of that reason is one, comfort, two, because he thinks he can be his best there. And three, it's because that bank account can add another zero potentially.

Starting point is 00:02:44 And maybe not another zero, but you get my point. Millions and millions more. I can go into the bank account of the hills if he's outside. And that's it. I think that's where the priority is. And in the first things first, who do you think is better, DJ Turner or Dax Hill? Well, objectively, the Bengals used DJ Turner or Dax Hill. as the guy who was following number one receivers last year.

Starting point is 00:03:09 One, he really hit his stride. They said, hey, we trust you to be that dude. Maybe the matchup's going to be against D.K. Metcalfe. Maybe it's going to be one of these bigger, stronger, powerful guys. There's one thing. And then two, they didn't draft DeAngelo Pond, or one of these slot only guys. They went out and they got to Carrillo Davis, who projects to be an outside corner. And so first things first, by the way, represented by the same agent,

Starting point is 00:03:36 but DJ Turner, Dax Hill, I think one of these guys is certainly a priority for the Bengals to get done this offseason. And given how they used him on the field, feels like a DJ Turner extension is priority number one for the Cincinnati Bengals. He's cornerback number one. I agree with you that that's probably their first priority. And I think it probably should be their first priority based on the way that we saw him play last year and the ascension that we've seen from him in the last couple of years. and the on-field production. It is interesting that the conversation went to where does Dax Hill go if Ticario Davis is good and ready to go.

Starting point is 00:04:14 And the conversation about getting the best three corners on the field involves potentially moving Dax Hill back inside. And that was our initial reaction. And I think the reaction of everyone who saw the Bengals go draft a cornerback and prioritize the outside guy, even earlier if they had picked a corner in the second round, it would have been a guy that could have played outside. not have been DeAngelo Ponds.

Starting point is 00:04:37 And so we have this world where the Bengals very obviously see DJ Turner, who will be in his age 26th season this year as their first corner. And the guy that is probably going to get that extension priority first, but it comes down to how much money he's going to ask for. And that's going to be a big factor here. Dax Hill is already earning money this year. They picked up his fifth year option. So it's $12.6 million for Dax Hill this year.

Starting point is 00:05:05 were to go that route and extend Dax and prioritize him ahead of D.J. Because it kind of feels, and we can talk about this next, like they're only going to get one of these two deals done at this point in some ways. And I think they would like to get both done and we're hopeful that they get both done. But realistically, with the potential asking prices and their constraints and allocating resources to a position multiple times, despite what the Bengals did with T. Higgins and Jemar Chase, that's not in their DNA to pay multiple guys at the same. same position, extremely high contracts. And we know they value corners. So maybe there's a

Starting point is 00:05:39 world where they can get both of these done. But both players being 26 years old this year, there's no age to help you. It's just that there's a little bit more financial flexibility because Dax is already earning money in 2026. So if they wanted to consider the cap implications and make that be a tiebreaker, then potentially Dax gives them a little bit of bigger room there. But I don't think that's the way the Bengals are most NFL teams are making their decision. James, if they're considering one of these two corners are going to try to get the deal done with the best player they can. Yeah, I think that's it.

Starting point is 00:06:14 And it really feels like it starts with DJ. And part of it is what they prioritize, but not just that, what they drafted. Like, Ticario Davis and DJ Turner compliment each other really well if Davis hits a ceiling, just from like a stylistic standpoint opposite the other one. It doesn't mean it doesn't work with Baxil. He's extremely valuable. But the realization of one and not both has, I think it's here. And I think when you think of all of the things that Duke Tobin said when you talked

Starting point is 00:06:51 about finances and you just, obviously the Dexter Lawrence trade, but you just look at things, you look at the future cap, you look at their actions with Miles Murphy, who we'll talk about, the action of not picking up the fifth year option. and you think about it and you're like, okay, well, if you extend DJ Turner, his cap, it's going to be pretty big next year. It's not going to be tiny. Dax Hills, well, it's going to be pretty significant next year. It wouldn't be tiny. Like, I would just be surprised if they did both in allocate that much money. Because, again, it's very, it would be similar than in these guys, as good as they are. They are not Jammar and T. but are you investing 37 million AAV in these two guys?

Starting point is 00:07:34 Because if they play well, what do you think Dax is going to get? Dax is going to get $15 million plus on the open market. And his camp may laugh at the idea that I'm suggesting only 15, just to be clear. Cordale Flaught just got $15 million per year. For example, Cordale Flott, who? A lot of people just said who, and I didn't hear you, but a lot of people said who because they didn't know who that was. And so that's a, that's a good way to put it. Like I'm looking at these cornerback numbers and just the average per year,

Starting point is 00:08:03 there are so many guys. I mean, making 16 or more, you're right, Cordell Flot with the Titans. But Zion McCollum, DJ Reed, Jalen Watson, Christian Benford, and I'm going 15 million on up. Travarius Ward, I don't think he's that guy anymore. He's making a lot of money. Tyson Campbell got paid. There are just a lot of guys like that.

Starting point is 00:08:23 Marlon Humphrey used to be really good. Is he still? Would you rather have Daxil for the next four years than Marlon Humphrey. I think you could certainly have that debate. And Ravens fans will say that, see that and roll our eyes or hear that and roll our eyes. But that's, that's what we're talking about here for these guys. Alante Taylor at 19 million per. Some of these are crazy. I mean, the Titans are on this list twice and both are don't feel a little bit crazy. So some of this is bad team tax. But that is something that when you're looking at

Starting point is 00:08:48 contract doesn't matter for the next guy. It doesn't. And if you're the Bengals, do you want that Do you want 40 million AAB tied up in two guys? Because that's probably more realistic. I think I 35 to 37 is probably too low. I think so. I mean, if DJ Turner is going to try to crack the top 10, and AJ Terrell got 20, Denzo Ward's at 20, Patrick Sertan is at 24. I don't know that DJ Turner gets there, but Patrick Sartan also will have signed that

Starting point is 00:09:16 deal before DJ Turner. And so inflation occurs. J.C. Horn is at 25? DJ Turner probably sees himself in that world, right, in terms of being a number one corner. The Bengals probably don't. That could be where some of the friction occurs in terms of, has DJ Turner shown it over a long enough period of time?

Starting point is 00:09:36 Because if DJ is asking for, say, top five corner money, you're talking about a $25 million contract then for DJ Turner. And we know how the Bengals felt about, you know, Jesse Bates not having gone to a Pro Bowl, not being an all pro and all these things for the top safety money he was asking for. Not that that should matter. You should be trying to get out ahead of these things. You should be trying to get it done this offseason.

Starting point is 00:10:00 But that's why DJ Turner is one that I'd really be prioritizing now if I'm the Bengals. Because if he is who we think he is and he's deserving of this extension, he's going to go out there and have another great year. That price is only going to go up. We'll continue the conversation, wrapping up with the corners, discussing Miles Murphy's future and Chase Brown in the wake of a couple of of other running backs really getting paid here in the NFL. We'll continue the conversation with all those and more coming up next.

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Starting point is 00:11:32 That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Let them know that it's locked on Bengals sent you. Again, that is Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed, sponsored jobs. All right, Jake, let's continue the corner conversation. And to me, if I'm DJ-turned,

Starting point is 00:11:53 I look at Denzel Ward and he's making just over 20 million. He signed a five year, $100 million deal, total guarantees, 71 million, 44 million fully guaranteed. Is that the floor? I think some of it's fake for Denzel Ward. For sure, but is that the floor? Like, is that a floor type of? I don't know if that is a floor. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:12:21 Because when Denzel Ward signed that contract, he said, signed that contract when he was 25 he's ninth for a a v that's why i picked him right i was just looking at where he signed the contract so he signed the contract in 2022 he was still on his rookie deal yep and the cash payouts were bigger and so was it was after the 2020 season no it was before the 2022 season so the browns got to spread that up from the rookie contract into the future the big cash outlays are coming. There's a little bit in 2023. He made $23 million,

Starting point is 00:13:01 but the biggest cash outlays for the deal come in 2026 and 2027. But there's been quite a bit of inflation since then. If Denzo Ward were doing this deal today, then that number is much bigger. But I don't know if that's the floor for DJ Turner. I think it might be around there, but like Alante Taylor getting that deal might just make it the floor.

Starting point is 00:13:24 Like if Alante Taylor didn't get $19 million from the Tennessee Titans at 28 years old, maybe it's a little bit of a different conversation. That's why I said the bad team tax doesn't matter, right? Because DJ Turner can just point to it and say, hey, I'm better than Alante Taylor. Yep, and he is. And I'm younger than Alate Taylor.

Starting point is 00:13:40 So I should get more money than Alante Taylor. So maybe that does make Denzel award the floor. But at the same time, I do think it is interesting to look at the overall corner market and see where he fits in. Tariq Wollin just signed a $12 million per year deal. It was just a one-year deal, but a $12 million deal.

Starting point is 00:13:59 A bit of a reprovet kind of deal for him for the year he's coming off of. But from what DJ's done on the field, like on-field production and consistency, it's interesting to look at the over-the-cap valuation and the Spotrack market values for these guys because they look at comparables based on statistics and age. and the market value according to Spotrack is 14 million. The over the cap valuation is 16 million. And I don't think those are going to be quite right. But I do wonder how high DJ Turner gets and how the Bengals view it,

Starting point is 00:14:34 because they may view it more from that $16 to $18 million range. And DJ might be thinking 22 plus. And then you start to get into some of those debates and decisions. But AJ Terrell getting just $20 million, I think, would be the other one that I'd be looking at here. for the Bengals. And again, that deal was signed in, uh, 2024. So a couple of years ago. So there's been some inflation, but how much higher does DJ Turner go than AJ Terrell? Right. Isn't that another comparable point that you would talk about? And it's similar.

Starting point is 00:15:09 The part of why I mentioned Denzel is just because of like, you look at the size and all of those things. But yeah, Terrell would be a comp. And I think that there are going to be a lot of people that say, Are you crazy? 20 million for DJ? Like I think there will be some people that and it's like, yeah, that's what it's going to be. And I've had some conversations again without even talking to DJ. I would be stunned if he takes a deal that is at $20 million per year.

Starting point is 00:15:37 Like pretty surprised because of, imagine what his value is if he has to play this year out. And he's getting a raise. It's going to make over 3.6 million. You're going to get a little bit of a raise, hardless. But if you look at it that way, in your DJ, and they're hesitant on 20, and you go out there and you play well, you might be get a, get a four-year, $100 million deal, or you get tagged and you make a ton of money because the tag would be pretty significant. I just wanted to look at the guys that actually signed deals this off season. So Alante Taylor

Starting point is 00:16:09 at 19 million this year is just 6.4% of the cap. So that would be aligned with like what the Bengals paid Drake or Patrick back in 2017. And the cap has just gone up so much that it feels crazy. But Dre got 10 and a half per year in 2017. That was 6.3% of the cap. More recent comparables around this number would be Charverius Ward getting $13 million in 2022, the $18 million corners in 2025, Carlton Davis, Chavarious Ward, Paulson Adebo, and Byron Murphy.

Starting point is 00:16:44 So say you get to 7%, of the cap and we look at what that would be this year and then you do get to 20 million real quick. So even if the number is comparable to some of these lower paid corners from recent years, you have to look at the cap number. And that's why so often I reference the APY is a percentage of the cap this year because that's often more predictive. That's how we got close on the Jamar Chase contract and the T. Higgins contract projections.

Starting point is 00:17:12 the in just looking at the franchise tag projection 23.69 so basically uh 24 million dollars for 2027 is the projection how likely do you think it is that the bengals use a franchise tag on the corner this this upcoming off season next year if they don't get a deal done with either guy I would almost guarantee it as long as they play well right like it's a lot of money so they would have to play well, but yeah. But, but like, yeah, like, DJ Turner's a pro bowler. Let's say he has the same season as last year

Starting point is 00:17:46 in the back half through the whole year. You can't let him walk in free agency. There's no scenario where that's why you got to pay it out. Yeah, exactly. And I think you do. I think that he's shown enough. I think that number change, man, that often for the Bengals coincides with extensions.

Starting point is 00:18:07 And there's nothing they could have done with DJ. It's not like they could have gotten out. more in front of it. Now is the time to get in front of it. Yes. This is the time. Dax is going to be interesting, on the other hand, because he's had such a weird journey in the NFL.

Starting point is 00:18:21 I guarantee you there are teams that see his position differently across the NFL. If he gets to free agency, what position he's signed to play will be interesting. If he just plays another year and outside corner and he plays well again, then that'll make the decision for him. But he's had such a weird journey in the NFL that. I wonder what his ask would be. Like, where do you think Dax is asking if you're looking at, you know, the current list of corners? The Alante Taylor thing just continues to stand out to me as like kind of a mind-blowing contract that exists.

Starting point is 00:18:54 Yeah. Because it's so comparable to the Drake or Patrick contract that Bengals did all those years ago. I think, see, this is where it gets interesting and where you can make the argument that Dax is more likely. Because, one, you can move that cap number around a little bit this year. you're already banking 12 plus million in cap. So if you want to free up some cap, he could do it that way. Two, does he turn down three for 50?

Starting point is 00:19:18 Three for 45, three for 50. I get it. The Alante, I get all that. Does he do that? Like if you give him that and it's the first two years of it essentially are, and here's the problem, guaranteed, but it's structured in a way where he's going to see the first two years for sure. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:19:33 I think it's hard to turn that down if you're him. Maybe you do because you can get more. But how much more are you getting when you, you know you're going to be the number two to DJ. Like I do wonder, and that's where I would be is I would make him turn down three for 45 with legitimate guarantees. The Bengals won't do that with the guarantees, but maybe it's three for 45 with a real big signing bonus up front that makes it tough.

Starting point is 00:19:55 Like is he turning down, sign this and get $25 million over the next calendar year? Mm-hmm. It's tough to say no to. Put it that way. Yeah. And there's a world where they should be still exploring both. Yes. That world. That's the world right there for sure.

Starting point is 00:20:12 And then you have to think about these other guys that we're going to talk about to finish up, Miles Murphy, Jordan Battle, Chase Brown. Do those guys fit into the Bengals' long-term plans? Do they have to revisit any other veterans? And on top of that, they have to consider their external free agent budget, of course. In the future, Amarius Mims is coming up very soon. And they should be doing that one as soon as they can, at least based on what he did last year. We'll wrap up the conversation about Bengals extension candidates and how these guys fit together coming out next.

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Starting point is 00:21:39 Five bucks into $150 in bonus bets if your first bet wins. All you have to do is head to fandal.com to get started. That's fandel.com. Fandle, play your game. James, I do think the Amarius Mims conversation might be even bigger than some of the other guys we're going to talk about because he is ascending

Starting point is 00:22:00 and appeared to be ascending so rapidly last year that he could very well command a top of market contract and a very valuable position. That will be a guy that we're going to be talking about as the Bengals need to get him done as soon as possible. Like I said, that's one that seems like that's really going in that direction. We'll see what happens this year. They'll have this opportunity to make the choice next year as we're talking about it. But they really, I think, will want to prioritize that one and how that impacts the plans for guys like Chase Brown and Miles

Starting point is 00:22:33 Murphy and even Jordan Battle, I think is interesting because those guys are all players that have carved out a significant role on this team. Jordan Battle in line to start at safety again. Chase Brown became a bell cow last year. And we've seen what he can do with a full compliment of carries as a running back, one in his contributions in the passing game. Miles Murphy, obviously a guy that they, and I want to shout out the Bengals front office for this.

Starting point is 00:22:59 They did the proactive communication thing with him, right? He said that. They didn't just surprise him with the news. They told him, hey, this is strictly a financial decision. we'd still like to have you around. But can they make that happen financially next year with the other priorities they have with the corners, with the need to have a budget to patch holes in free agency as well? Do you see any of these guys, James, is likely to sign extensions with the Bengals as of today?

Starting point is 00:23:28 I think the Miles one's interesting because can you still do it now? And like, would he be willing to and could you do that? Are you going to play it out? should you play it out? You could argue, hey, we have first rounder, a guy in Catchas how we had a first round grade on. We've added to that room. We have Boya Mafet. We need to see more out of miles before we invest there. Like I get the logic and the thought process behind it. But if he's awesome, then he's getting that Mafé deal. And now you're instead of 15, you know, three for 45 potentially. Now it is, you know, it's vaults him into a different,

Starting point is 00:24:01 a different category when it comes to free agency. And talk about tags that you don't want to use. Well, that's one where he'd have to play out of his. mind to earn, right? And so it's tough. It's, it's tough to look at Miles and say, yeah, he's definitely going to sign an extension. I think the most realistic time would be this year. Now, if he goes out there and it's just like he was last year, which is just kind of good, not great, breakout, but it's five sacks, some pressures, solid against the run. Well, yeah, then you can pay him the three for 45, like you can do that if you want him. And then there's a real discussion, do you want them or not? But if he breaks out, boy, oh, boy, are you going to regret not

Starting point is 00:24:40 picking up that fifth year option? And that's what's tough about that. Chase Brown's interesting. He's so interesting, man, because I love his mindset. I love his mentality. I think some past comments of mine kind of throw off how I actually feel about Chase Brown. It is just tough to invest that kind of money after you're investing in running back or after you're investing in wide receiver, excuse me, quarterback. And then you mention Amarius Mims. Like, you have to. Like that is a have to do and you have to get ahead of it because that market will not slow down. And there's a larger Chase Brown conversation that we will have to have. But it's very, very simple.

Starting point is 00:25:18 Does he want to get paid? Well, of course he does. But does he want to get paid like A-Cham or is he willing to take less than that? Is he willing to take a reasonable deal? And reasonable to him may be not reasonable to me. And that's what's tough. Do I want Chase Brown on the Bengals next year? I love it.

Starting point is 00:25:34 but 12, 13, 14 million dollars per year, would you rather have Daxhill or Chase Brown? Like real talk, because you're having that discussion. Would you consider that and say, oh, I'd rather have Chase Brown? Well, I don't know. I don't know if I would say that. And that's what stuff is what does that get in the way of

Starting point is 00:25:53 because it will get in the way of something. And the reason we know it will get in the way of something is because we've seen it. When they make a move, there is a butterfly effect. It disrupts everything. I think Miles Murphy's option gets picked up if Dexter Lawrence isn't a Bengal right now. I do believe that because they make that splash trade for Dexter Lawrence. They're like, yeah, let's wait.

Starting point is 00:26:13 Let's hold off. We were able to get Cash's Howl in the draft. Let's hold off here. And so what's the ripple effect if you extend Chase Brown? I think that's it. Jordan Battle, not even really in the conversation for me. Maybe the Bengals, you invested in Brian Cook for a reason. I think he's solid.

Starting point is 00:26:29 But he needs to show more. It needs to take another step. I'm willing to roll those dice if on the Bengals. Maybe not. Maybe they get them on a real budget-friendly type deal. But if on them, I make him earn it, make him go out there and show that he is a dude worth extending and giving a long-term contract to. I'm with you on Jordan Battle. I wonder how the Bengals see it.

Starting point is 00:26:48 And that extends to some degree for Chase Brown. Like what I'm about to talk about it, it applies to both of them. They don't have succession plans of those positions. Where ostensibly, drafting cash is how signing Boye-Mafé, drafting Shamar Stewart last year, there's a succession plan. for Miles Murphy. Like, if they lose Murphy, they need to replace him, obviously, but they've invested so much both in terms of financial resources in Boya, Mape, and in draft picks in Shamar's and Cash's Howell that maybe they don't feel great about investing even more at that position,

Starting point is 00:27:19 which they clearly value, but you can invest too much in a position. Maybe there's another draft pick that goes into it instead of a financial resource because you have to balance the rookie contract investments versus the financial investments. But for Chase Brown and for Jordan Battle, there's no guy waiting in the wings right now. There's no fifth round running back pick this year that they can develop behind Chase Brown for the year. And maybe they're still waiting to see what Taj Brooks can do in that capacity. Maybe Taj Brooks gets a chance to earn a little bit more of a role this year. But comparing Taj Brooks rookie year to Chase Brown's rookie year, there's some pretty obvious differences.

Starting point is 00:28:01 especially towards the tail end, right? Like we started to see Chase Brown have a few breakout runs, big plays, and you're like, oh, this is the potential. Yeah. And we got to the point where when you go look at the statistical comparisons over at Spotrack for their market value tool, that you're comparing Chase Brown to Kenneth Walker statistically over the last two years. And Kenneth Walker obviously had a huge 2025 that led to him getting paid really well.

Starting point is 00:28:29 But if Chase Brown has a bigger 20, 26, like Kenneth Walker had a bigger 2025, then he will be compared more favorably to Kenneth Walker who just got paid, what, 14 and a half million from the chiefs? But out of these comparables, James Cook from Andrej Stevenson, Kenneth Walker, and Travis Etienne, or messed up Etchen pronunciation there? Achan. It's literally A-chan. He says it's the same as, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:58 Okay. I knew that it wasn't what we were. we thought it was. But anyway, Chase Brown played more than any of those guys in the last two years based on a snaps percentage. He's outgained all but James Cook in terms of rushing yards per game. He had more rushing touchdowns per game than all of them, but James Cook. And he's ahead of all of them in receptions per game, receiving yards per game. And so the receiving production, receiving touchdowns had to be part of this, but he's been productive in that aspect as well. I mean, those are things that could really drive his number up, especially.

Starting point is 00:29:31 if he has another year that takes a step and gets closer to that Kenneth Walker kind of 2024 to 2025 jump in chase brown's 2025 to 2026 would you take player for player they both make three million dollars a year which is what chase brown said to make would you take devon a chan or chase brown right now i have not watched enough a chan i think uh that his what what are your thoughts i mean you must have thoughts here i don't feel like i've watched enough of a chan because he plays for a terrible team that I don't pay much attention to and I don't play fantasy football to have a deep thought of that. I think there are levels. Yeah, I think there are levels to it. And there's just a different burst speed, like different offense. Like obviously Chase Brown

Starting point is 00:30:11 wouldn't catch as many passes if he wasn't with the Bengals, right? So it's really tough for that. And so is he awesome? He's awesome. But let's say Chase Brown goes out there and has 1,800 and Jemir Gibbs has 1,300. Well, Jemir Gibbs is the better player. I don't, I don't, I don't care. Like, and so there, there's, I, do I think Chase Brown's awesome? And do I want him here? Yes, but there's got to be a level. There's got to be, like, the same way people probably made faces earlier in the show when they heard us talk about 20 million for Dax Hill. I'm like, oh my God. Like, I guarantee you something. It's the same thing with Chase Brown, like 15 million for Chase Brown. Let's just throw that out there, which is less than A Chan. And you just made the case

Starting point is 00:30:52 numbers wise. He's ahead of those guys. Like, that's a lot. Now, the James Cook deal looked big, but it's pretty team friendly if you looked at it. I remember at the time thinking that. Now, I got to go back and I haven't looked at that one specifically since it got done, but it didn't seem that scary when I looked at it and looked how easily they could have gotten out from under it. It wouldn't be like an anchor for the bills. And so if you can do that, sure, because I believe in Chase Brown, but you just don't want to anchor yourself in to look at all the money we're paying on all these skill players, it's,

Starting point is 00:31:30 there's got to be a fine line. And by the way, you better believe Chase Brown knows he's not catching as many passes and other offenses. It's just not. He's not going to be as involved in some ways. Now, maybe he think he would run for 1,400 yards instead of 1,000 because he'd get more rushing attempts.

Starting point is 00:31:45 Maybe. But hopefully you can find a middle ground where it makes sense for all sides. If you can't, and you're talking about the A-chan money, I'm good. By the way, I'm good on A-chan at that money, too. It's just there's only a few guys that would be worth that and it would be the real special, special, special players that really changed the game.

Starting point is 00:32:04 I don't know if the Bengals can afford to pay a running back period right now with the way their team is put together the way they run their offense. This is a team that since Zach Taylor, Joe Burrow arrived to show them consistently how they value the running back position. And they see it as fungible. They see it as replaceable. They see it as we're going to throw a fifth round pick at it every now and then. And we're going to hope that those guys develop.

Starting point is 00:32:29 And sometimes they will and sometimes they won't. We saw them reduce the money that was going to be paid to Joe Mixing before they moved on from Joe Mixin. That is not the kind of running back that this offense has been looking for in the Joe Burroughs-Zack-Taylor era. Maybe they changed their tune on that to some degree because they could very well be in a spot next year where they're like, man, we don't have the talent at running back. We need to go spend a second round pick again. but they haven't in the past in this era of Bengals football. But paying a running back when you're also paying your quarterback two receivers and we'll see what Mike Keseki's future is.

Starting point is 00:33:06 They currently have funds allocated to Mike Kaseki. You're going to need to pay Amarius Mims. They're paying Orlando Brown. They're going to then have to figure out three interior spots. Maybe that's Connor Liu and Brian Parker, and that's two of them that are very cheap in the future. then you got a couple more years with Dylan Fairchild. Maybe that's how they make it work.

Starting point is 00:33:25 But you can't pay everybody at every single position. You can't pay every starter. You have to have some guys producing on rookie contracts. And running back is one of those positions where you can find that pretty often. And so that's why, to me, philosophically, the way this offense works, it's hard to justify spending significant money at that position. For sure. That's it.

Starting point is 00:33:48 And that's what's really tough. That's my struggle. Part of it at least. And especially if you have very good, right? If you can get him on good money, fine. I get it. You keep your good players. But like I have him ahead of Jordan Battle.

Starting point is 00:34:05 As of now, he's a better player than Miles Murphy. There's no doubt. But positional value matters, what you have allocated matters, what it looks like. Could they make it work? Absolutely. Should they? I think it depends. and ideally, is ideally do they do it this offseason if they're going to do it or do they do it next off season?

Starting point is 00:34:26 If they are like if we tell you, hey, they are definitely going to extend Chase Brown over the next 12 months. I think you always would rather do it sooner than later because if you wait until later, there will always be more contracts. And this is bad, bad team tax. Like HN was more productive than Chase Brown. So like getting paid more makes sense. But these are bad team taxes that are leading to some of these guys getting paid. that bad team tax doesn't matter for subsequent deals. It just drives up the price for everybody.

Starting point is 00:34:53 Yeah. Yeah. And that's it. And so hopefully they can find a way to make it work with multiple corners, not just one corner. And then we'll see where it goes from there. But yeah, I think there's a larger conversation with each of these. We didn't have a lot of time to hit on miles, hit on Chase enough.

Starting point is 00:35:12 But I still think there's more there because that running back market, I think he's going to want more than what Mixon got, for example, which was 12 million per and I just don't know if you're the Bengals, if that makes sense. And it could be tougher to replace them. Like I said, no succession plan there. We'll see with Taj Brooks this year. But like Samajai Piran ain't a succession plan. I love Somaget Piran, but like that's not what that is.

Starting point is 00:35:34 He's a great role player for the team. So I wonder how they'll treat these positions where they don't have the guys coming down the pipe or how comfortable they'll be knowing that they have to turn over a position in entirely because they're not going to want to be in that spot. But running back is just a very unique position in the NFL when you talk about how well you can get rookies to contribute, cheap rookies to contribute, mid to late round rookies to contribute. It's not foolproof, obviously.

Starting point is 00:36:01 And we've seen what happens when teams are bereft of running back talent. That's what leads to the chiefs going out and paying Kenneth Walker, for example, with Patrick Holmes coming out to ACL. I'm sure that's a factor there. So you don't want to go too far in that direction. but for the Bengals and where their investments are, very difficult to project an extension, I think, for Chase Brown right now. But yeah, getting any of these done sooner than later will save you money.

Starting point is 00:36:25 And like you said, James, I think there's more on the bone with a lot of these conversations. But after the corners, I think it gets very interesting to figure out where or if the Bengals will prioritize extensions for any of these players that are on expiring deals this year, or if they just look ahead and say, you know what, Amarius is the next big target? and that's what they need to prioritize next offseason. We'll have more time for these topics. As we get into the off season here, we've got another open practice from the Bengals this week that we'll get to probably hear from some more players

Starting point is 00:36:55 and those sorts of things that we'll have covered for you here on Lockdown Bengals as well. But until then, that's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Thanks for listening, Hootay, and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals Facing MASSIVE Contract Decisions on Key Young Players

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