Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals MYTHBUSTING: Dexter Lawrence Is Still a GAME-WRECKER

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Bengals traded a top 10 pick for a nose tackle, and some would have you believe that won't make a difference in Dexter Lawrence isn't even all that good. We think that's a myth. We're going to bust it. Let's go. You are Locked-on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. He's Joe Goodberry.

Starting point is 00:00:32 I'm Jake Liskow. we are your host of lockdown Bengals covering the Cincinnati Bengals for over a decade. And that makes us your best one-stop shop for all things Bengals here on the Lockdown podcast network. Today we're continuing the myth-busting series. And while we spent a lot of time on offense and past protection and Joe Burroughs, proclivity or lack thereof to take sacks and how he's improved in sack avoidance earlier this week, today we shift our focus to the defense.

Starting point is 00:01:00 Later on in the show, we'll discuss the comparison that. recently came up in a conversation between Mina Kimes and Nate Tice, where the allegation was issued that this defense is not as good as the Bengals playoff run defenses in 2021 and 2022. We'll find where that is true and where that may or may not be a myth, what our concerns are around the defense. That'll be a little bit later in the show because we think the talent level on this defense does rival 2021 and 2022 in many ways.

Starting point is 00:01:31 But we're going to start with one of the reasons that the talent level rivals those great playoff performances in particular under Luanna Rimo. And that is the acquisition of Dexter Lawrence. And the immediate response to the Dexter Lawrence trade from many in the national media, Joe, was a little bit surprising to me. This is a guy that is a one-of-one kind of player, but has seen a little bit of decline in terms of his productivity, his statistical productivity in the last couple of years. And so when analysts saw that the Bengals gave up a top 10 pick, in a weak draft, but a top 10 pick, nonetheless, for Dexter Lawrence, there was some hand-wringing. And since then, I think some people have seen the Bengals perspective and why they felt like this move made sense and is a good idea. But there are also those out there to think, ah, Dexter Lawrence is

Starting point is 00:02:18 declining. You don't know that you're going to get that dominant version of Dexter Lawrence. You give up a top-10 pick for it. And the stats maybe lie a little bit here as well, because Dexter Lawrence was still really good in a statistical down year for him in 2025, and the Bengals are expecting even better performances from Lawrence in 26. But when you heard some of those myths, Joe, and well, I'm calling them myths, some of those claims and the ideas that swirled around Dexter Lawrence, what were your thoughts? And we watched the film immediately.

Starting point is 00:02:50 What do you think the film shows there as well? Yeah, we did watch film right away. We have our YouTube channel. People can go see our reactions. to that and we put film on right away. I also have film on the first star media YouTube channel. So do you want to look at the film and see what he looked like in 2025 in previous years, see if there was a difference?

Starting point is 00:03:09 I will say right away, there was a slight difference. Yeah, he was amazing. He was one of the best defensive tackles we've ever seen from 22 to 24. But the idea that he needs to be that again for this defense to be top level or top half of the league defense, I think that's wrong. I think the idea that he is much worse, and Zach Taylor talked about this at his last press conference saying the film didn't match the production for them. Like the production, zero sacks, you're going to see that, right? And you're going to say, oh, he had a down year.

Starting point is 00:03:38 I get it. The difference between 24 and 25 is not that great. 10 sacks to zero sacks. We have cautioned for years now. You can't just look at that one number and say that's who he is or that's what he is. I've got some data here in 2025, Dexter Lerner, Lawrence based on PFF was still their 10th best graded defensive tackle in the entire league. He was fifth and pass rush grade. His 14% pass rush win rate was sixth. And this is

Starting point is 00:04:08 25. This is his down year, guys. His 19.7 through pass set win rate was sixth best among amongst all defensive tackles. This is all while playing 373 snaps at nose tackle, which is the most in the league. If that's a down year and he's still a top 10 defense, defensive tackle playing nose, which is rare and crazy. That's good. I don't think he has to be 24, 24, 22, 23, you know, 2023 Dexter Lawrence for this defense to get the value that he brings. He can be 2025 Dexter Lawrence.

Starting point is 00:04:43 We'd like more production and sacks at the end, but that's still a very, very good player. And I wonder how the Bengals will use him. Exactly. Because where his productivity started to dip was when the New York giant started playing him more at 3-tech. And you would think that that would actually benefit Lawrence's production. It's much harder to rack up pass-rushing numbers from that head-up or shade over-the-center alignment where you are very much in that nose tackle alignment.

Starting point is 00:05:14 But as he played more in the B-Gafts and as he played more even over the tackle at times, playing some tackle-4-I at times in that Giants defense, we saw the pass-rush numbers start to dip. And there's a couple things there. One, you also have the elbow in 24 that I think he thinks affected him in 2024. He says it didn't in 2025, but the more distance you put between an injury and a player being healthy, typically the more recovered, you see those players. You see that very obviously with ACLs, Achilles and more dynamic positions, cornerbacks. I'm thinking about specifically where a lot of times for corners, it takes two years for them to get back to the point they were at when they have an ACL injury. And I'm not saying that Lawrence is going to follow that path.

Starting point is 00:06:04 He didn't have an ACL. But the reason I started this whole topic was I wonder if the Bengals will put him back in more head-up, nose tackle alignments, and let him get back to where he was really dominant for the Giants in 2022, 2022, 2003, when he had the 70 and 65 pressure seasons because in those seasons, he had seven. 660 and 502 A gap snaps. Crazy. Tackle snaps. According to Pro Football Focus is charting,

Starting point is 00:06:32 compared to 332 and 373 in the last couple of years. And some of that is that he's playing a little bit fewer snaps. But in 2023, he had 502 nose tackle snaps and fewer snaps than he had in 2025 overall. He played 50 less snaps in 2023 than 2025. And he had an extra 130 snaps and nose tackle. The production difference in terms of his pressures, 65 versus 34, with over 100 more nose tackle snap. So I wonder where we see the Bengals use him.

Starting point is 00:07:06 We're going to see a lot of odd fronts from the Bengals this year. They're going to put three defensive tackles on the field in base situations. I wonder what that looks like on passing downs. I wonder what that looks like on mixed downs. But if I'm the Bengals, I'm looking at that. And I'm looking at the film and I'm wondering, can we get him at nose more? Would that be better for our defense when we have a Jonathan Allen, when we have a BJ Hill to go along with Shemar Stewart? Dexter Lawrence.

Starting point is 00:07:37 Shamar Stewart is kicking inside a lot on passing us. When you have those guys as well, wouldn't it make sense to let Dexter anchor the thing in the middle and use these more versatile or more pass rush specialists, smaller players, quicker players in that three. role. And that's not necessarily myth-busting. That's me asking a question. We'll see how he's used. But I do think that the film also backs up like you were talking about that Dex-L Lawrence is still really good last year. Just because the pressures weren't there doesn't mean that he's some shell of himself. I think another thing, and we don't know the answer here exactly, but really easy to speculate about the motivation factor for Lawrence 2025. Yeah, no doubt about that. And if you're a Bengals fan and you are hearing these narratives and the national media you're listening,

Starting point is 00:08:26 or maybe someone at the water cooler at work is like, yeah, but Lawrence had zero sacks last year. He had 10 in 2024. And that's on PFF numbers counting half sacks. But here's the last bit, the last bit of data. So I gave you the 2025 numbers. Now let's compare it to the 2024. If you don't want to be results based, okay, he had the eighth highest pass rush grade in 2024.

Starting point is 00:08:47 He was fifth in past rush grade in 2025. He was 13th in past. in pass rush win rate in 2024. He was sixth in 2025. He was sixth in true past set win rate in 2024. He was also sixth in 2025. A lot of his pass rush numbers, a lot of that data says he was as good,

Starting point is 00:09:06 if not better and ranked better, I could say, I should say, in 2025. It can't be results based all the time on things and just look at how many sacks. We want the sacks. Don't get me wrong. You can't have zero. That wouldn't be good in getting our total.

Starting point is 00:09:20 We want to get over 40. this year on the defense, right? It wouldn't help if your star player has zero. But he was individually on tape and you can see it on tape. That's why Zach said it, because you can see him. He just wasn't finishing. Remember, we kept saying that when we were watching the film ourselves. The wind was there, the pressure was there. He just couldn't break down at the same level. And maybe that's a difference. Maybe, you know, that's where you get to the production at the end. You need guys to finish at the end of these plays. But I think there was enough clips of him just absolutely dominating and wrecking the

Starting point is 00:09:50 other team. Elevates the talent level on this defense, which is part of why we think this defense should bounce back in a significant way this year. And we'll wrap up the Dexter Lawrence contributions, how he will help elevate that talent level as we start to think about how this defense stacks up to the last Bengals playoff defenses in 2021 and 2022. We'll do that coming up next. This episode of Lockdown Bengals is sponsored by Square.

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Starting point is 00:11:26 in one place, so you're ready for whatever's next. And right now, listeners can get $200 off of Square hardware when you sign up at square.com slash go slash locked on NFL. That's SQUA.R.com slash go slash locked on NFL. Get started with Square and build a setup that works the way you do. Jake, I think the next narrative that we're going to hear a ton. and you said you heard this on the Mina Kimes show, and I did, and I've heard it from others as well. We've heard this for years at this point, that the Bengals were really carried by that defense in 2021 and 2022, right?

Starting point is 00:12:03 And that defense was, I mean, we're not going to, the myth isn't that the defense was good in the playoffs. It was very good in the playoffs. The myth is that this defense, currently the 2026 defense, doesn't have the same talent. And to me, the first thing that jumps out to me, Jake, is that who believed the 2021 defense had enough talent going in? I don't think anyone did. And the first, like, we didn't have this idea of Lou Anirumo being this mad scientist until we got to that point. When we, I remember, I can't remember who it was, so forgive me. But I remember as the team was getting good at the end of the year and there was like playoff previews and game previews going into that Titans game, are this this Bengals team physical enough to handle this?

Starting point is 00:12:48 Right? Too finesse. Yeah. Yeah. Do they have any stars? This is a no stars defense, right? Do they have any household names on the defense? There were a ton of questions about this defense legitimately and rightfully.

Starting point is 00:13:03 We have a lot of data to back it up. But Jake, do you remember that feeling in 21 going in? And it's to me not much different than where we stand today. Yeah, I mean, going into 2021, there wasn't a lot of confidence in the team in general. The difference this year is that we've seen them do it with. this offense before. We've seen him do it with Joe Burrow before. We've seen them put together a defensive bounce back before. And so people, I think, are more willing to believe in the always-existent idea of defensive volatility year-to-year defenses are way more volatile than

Starting point is 00:13:35 offenses or not as consistent year over year. They're more prone to swings based on the quality of the opposition. The quality of the Bengals opponents this year should set up as well for a successful year on defense for the most part. They're not facing a ton of high flying offenses this year. And so that should help as well. But when you look at the talent level and the one last point on Dexter Lawrence that I want to bring up to segue into this conversation is what Zach was talking about in terms of what he can create for other players around him and what he can do in terms of not finishing, right? Plays we watch because we watch like all of Dexter Lawrence's pressures, all of his tackles for loss, like the highlight plays, right? And on a lot of those plays, the offensive

Starting point is 00:14:22 linemen or line men, one or two, that are trying to deal with him, sometimes look pretty helpless, right? Like, if he gets a one-on-one, you're getting pushed into your quarterback's lap. And when that happens, somebody else has to take advantage of that. But when he's double-teamed and he's occupying two guys, well, that's creating opportunities for others. That's something that Zach Taylor talked about when he was discussing Dexter Lawrence as well, was a number of pressures and sacks, the Dexter Lawrence's presence, just doing his job, doing the dirty work created for those around him.

Starting point is 00:14:52 And one of the big differences, especially when you compare to 2021, and the way we felt about that 2021 defense is the incredible depth that the Bengals have built on the defensive front. And it's a little bit different when you go back and look at 2022. But in 2021 in the playoffs, we were looking at this right before we started recording. The guys that led the way in past rushing stats for the Bengals

Starting point is 00:15:11 against the Kansas City Chiefs in the conference championship in 2021, one were BJ Hill with 40, Sam Hubbard with 32, DJ Reader with 32, Craig Hendrickson with 28, Big Gap, Wyatt Ray with 13. Can anyone remember Wyatt Ray other than his family? Zach Kerr, I vaguely remember Wyatt Ray, more than I remember Zach Kerr, who also played in the Super Bowl for the Bengals. He had nine past rushing staffs against the Chiefs of the Conference Championship. Damien Square at defensive tackle?

Starting point is 00:15:43 I did not remember that one. had nine pass rushing snaps in that conference championship game. Tyler Shelvin, Callig Karim had four apiece. And that was their defensive line. Because they lost Ogan, Joby, and Mike Daniels? Yeah, they had some injuries. Yeah. And injuries will happen.

Starting point is 00:16:01 But one of the reasons we're so bullish on this defense is, yeah, you've added Dexter Lawrence as this anchor, this piece around which you will sculpt your pass rush. But also, you're now four to five to six. six deep at defensive tackle. The depth incredibly improved there. And the pieces they can rotate at end, they need to find who the pass rush winner is going to be a defensive end.

Starting point is 00:16:26 Don't get me wrong. There is no Trey Hendrickson on this team. But they put Dexter Lawrence in the middle instead to create opportunities for these guys on the outside. And so again, four deep, we're in the preseason, four deep right now at the edge spot where they can rotate. They can bring guys in. waves and hopefully that improves their pressure packages but when you compare it to 2021 and those

Starting point is 00:16:52 units that were playing in the playoffs the talent level on that defensive front massively elevated and we also went and we looked at you know all the all the season long stats for 2021 and 2020 and we'll dig into those as well but that really stands out as a major difference the talent level on the defensive line and I think this also stands up when you talk about the 2022 team So much deeper. And even though there's O'Rei Hendrickson, now there's a Dexter Lawrence instead. And they have so many more pieces that they can throw together on that defensive front. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:24 And I think this extends to, you know, I would like to make one point on the D-line. Maybe there's not a Hendrickson. But like, Mafei is a better pass rush than Sam Hubbard, right? Hubbard was always a run defender hustle player. Okay, pass rusher. I think 21 was a decent year and 22 were decent for him. Those were his peaks. But I would expect Mafe to be better than that.

Starting point is 00:17:43 I think Murphy could be better than that. One small step forward for Murphy in a full season, he could be better in terms of pass rushing than Hubbard. I don't know if he's the same run defender. I'd like to see that. That'd be nice. Cassius Howell could be. I don't know if it's going to be a rookie,

Starting point is 00:17:57 Cassius Howell, but down the line and maybe just off of being an athlete right away, he could provide some flashes and pressure. And then Schmar Stewart, if he takes a step, could be an impactful rotational player. Don't know that I would say he's better in Hubbard, but I'd like to see what he turns into in the future. You want to add something? Just think about the amount of investment there.

Starting point is 00:18:16 You know, first round pick, first round pick, second round pick, which was your first pick in the draft and big free agent spent, which some called an overpay, which maybe is its own conversation on Boyam Offer. Yeah, I don't even. Maybe that's a future myth busting. I guess we may not know the answer for a while on that one. But then I go to the linebackers.

Starting point is 00:18:33 At that time going into 2021, we did not know second year Logan Wilson was going to be that dude, right? Like in the playoffs. And then he could have been Super Bowl MVP in an ultra- internet universe, right? Jermaine Pratt, we did not know going to year three, Jermaine Pratt was going to take that step and become playoff Pratt. Playoff P.

Starting point is 00:18:51 Yeah. We did not know that. Like, you need guys to step up and emerge in these pressure situations. It's why I'm not scared of those. It's why I like pressure situations because I want to see how these guys react. And I think they were in a ton of close games and backs against the wall situations all the way from week one in 2021 against the Vikings. You remember to get into the overtime.

Starting point is 00:19:12 They got to knock the ball out of Delvin Cook, recover it, make a play on fourth down on offense to get in field goal range. Like that set the tone. They were in shootouts and slug fest every game for the majority of that season that I think really created that they were okay in the fire in the playoffs when it did come. But we didn't know that it was going to be the case. And I would say right now the corner room compared to the 2021 corner room, I would take this.

Starting point is 00:19:40 I would take DJ and Dax. I don't know about the slot position. I would love to have a Mike Hilton here on this one. But on the boundary, we didn't know a Woosier was going to be that good. He was coming off a free agent contract where it was like, yeah, $7 million for year, decent. He's had issues for the Cowboys, but we didn't know he'd be that good. And he emerged.

Starting point is 00:19:59 And I think we're going to need players to emerge in this 2026 defense in the exact same way. We'll talk about the safety room and bring up some more data points when we come back after this. Running a business shouldn't feel like you're trying to connect a bunch of systems that were never designed to work together. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow none of them ever talk to each other. I think we all deal with this at work, whether you're the boss or the, you know, the peon working at the bottom. You're like, why aren't the two hands ever connecting and talking to each other? That's where Odu comes in. Odo is an all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your

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Starting point is 00:21:14 Try for free today at O-D-O-D-com slash locked-on. That's O-D-O-O-O-com slash locked-on. When you compare the cornerback rooms and the linebacker rooms, because we talked a lot about the defensive line. Yeah. I think there's a lot of parallels in the corner room. Yeah, you didn't know exactly what you're going to get from Cheeto, but we really liked that signing.

Starting point is 00:21:38 I was a fan of that signing. I thought that that was a guy that could bounce back. He had all the tools to do so. He's still playing, still playing solid football. fortunately for the Baltimore Ravens. But this year where in those seasons, you had a question at that outside corner spot. Cam Taylor-Ritt emerged in the playoffs for the Bengals

Starting point is 00:21:57 when he was a rookie, but Eli Apple also had to make plays for the Bengals in the playoffs. And this year, we had the question in the slot. So where we felt by the time you got to the playoffs in 21, pretty good about Jito, really good about Mike Hilton, you had questions about that other corner. and Eli Apple was playing a ton for the Bengals and he played fairly well for Eli Apple's standards especially

Starting point is 00:22:21 like the best football of his life probably came in those couple of years for the Cincinnati Bengals his professional life anyway. And the Bengals this year have that question in the slot. Historically, you would rather have that question in the slot. Not sure that's so true in the NFL at this point. There's not a whole lot of hiding that player.

Starting point is 00:22:41 There's some. You can help a little bit. You're going to put Cooper Cup wherever the weakness is. right. I mean, they did it. The Bengals do it with Jamar Chase. They will, if you're not going to follow him, the Bengals will find the matchup problem. They will take advantage of it. Joe Burrow will throw at the weak link. Good quarterbacks will do that with good receivers all the time. But the point is, is that both of these secondaries had a big question mark going into the season. The Bengals will need someone, like you said, Joe, to step up in the slot. When you look at the linebackers, you're right, like Jermain Pratt and Logan Wilson in that year, took

Starting point is 00:23:14 massive leaps in 2021. Jermaine Pratt in 2022, huge, huge step forward. But when you compare like the overall defense and our expectations, because say you expect the defense to be average this year, middle of the pack, it's just about the same as 2021. 2021 was a pretty average defense,

Starting point is 00:23:34 especially in the regular season. In the postseason, they got a little bit better. They were opportunistic at times, but go back to the regular season, week 17, Bengals beat the Chiefs, 3431, they gave up 28 points in the first half. And they gave up three in the second half. They cracked down in the second half.

Starting point is 00:23:52 They went and did it again against Patrick Mahomes in the playoffs that year. And so I think when comparing this year specifically to 2021, and we'll talk about 2022 as well, because 2022 is a big step forward. Yeah. But the big difference to me between our expectations for this team in the preseason of 2021 versus this year, is we don't really know if Al Golden is going to get to the point that Lou Adam Romo got to late in that year and in the playoffs where people that are everydayers have heard me mention this many, many times.

Starting point is 00:24:28 Lou Aniromo can cook up those quarterback-specific game plans to really stymie the Josh Allen's, the Patrick Mahomes of the world. It was really evident in the playoffs in 2022, the job that Luana Rumo's defense did against Josh Allen in that game. but we don't really know if Al Golden has that in him yet. So we can talk about the talent level, compare the talent level, and we'll talk about the 2022 defense as well here. But the defensive coordinator has to put it together.

Starting point is 00:24:56 It has to put these guys in the best positions, especially in these playoff games, these high-leverage games that could happen in December, in January. You need Al Golden to step to the plate as well. And that, I think, is maybe a bigger unknown than some of the players. You have the huge unknown with the linebackers. I think that's a huge one. Boy, A, Mafe, Samar Stewart, Miles Murphy.

Starting point is 00:25:20 There's going to be some questions around those guys as to just how good they will be this year. But no question bigger to me on this defense than the linebackers and Al Golden in 2026. Yeah, and that's extremely fair. Maybe another episode down the line is how many of these question marks or players we need to take a step, guys, we need to develop? How many have to do that? How many have to like can we flip a coin on 10 of them? And if five of them land, are we good? Is that because not everyone landed in 21 either, but the majority.

Starting point is 00:25:50 And in 25, the Bengals lost just about every coin flip. Yeah. Like we talked about this on a lockdown Bengals episode of probably around this time last year, James and I. These are coin flips to Bengals, he did half of them. And they did. Sometimes you don't. Yeah, Trey Wayne's is one.

Starting point is 00:26:07 They didn't get that coin flip, right? They, there are guys that aren't going to hit. and that's going to happen. Do you have enough options? Have you made enough of investments at those positions that somebody could hit? And will the coaches recognize it and put that guy in position to succeed? Can you hide his weaknesses? Like we didn't mention the safeties. I think the safeties in 21 were better. I think we expected them to be better than this group. But the Bengals had made investments there. So do they have enough options to turn if battle doesn't take a step, right? Can they put in Kyle Dugger? Like that's what you're looking for. And I think they've done enough. So if we're just

Starting point is 00:26:39 talking talent, defense one for one for what we expected for 21 going in versus now, I'd say comparable. If not, some areas I believe could be stronger if enough guys hit. But again, we don't want to go on that route yet. I don't know how much we believed in trade going into 2021 either. Like obviously, very quickly won us over, but probably the belief level is higher for Dexter Lawrence than it was for Trey Hendrickson. That's so like in terms of preseason expectations, wouldn't you say that preseason

Starting point is 00:27:08 expectations or higher for this defense than the 2021 defense? I was as you said that, I'm like, man, was Mafay that much different than what we were talking about and level of what we wanted out of Trey Hendrickson, right? I don't think we were thinking he's going to be a 15 sec 70 pressure guy consistently. Like we didn't know it goes four straight pro bowls, right? Like that was not the expectation. Yeah, we were worried about Trey regressing and sacks. We were worried about him being the, oh, yeah, we're looking at sacks too much where, you know,

Starting point is 00:27:35 we're saying don't look at sacks too much for guys like Dexter Lawrence. and we would say that also about Boy A Mafet. Exactly. And that's part of the reason why we look at these data points and look at them a little bit deeper because we were like, ah, there's, you know, just look at his 15 sacks on film portray. And there were like a lot of hustle sacks, a lot of created by other players, like you would say out of boy A Mafie. But yeah, that is a great point because this whole, this whole show today is be wary of results-based narratives, right? Because it's not, you've got to go deeper.

Starting point is 00:28:08 You got to look at it. Where do they stem from? Where did it start from? Where was the 2021 defense going in? And we're going long on this because I would like to touch on the 22 really got so much better. Like EPA-wise, maybe they began to believe in Lou. Lou pitched a awesome playoffs versus the Titans, number one-seat Titans that were physical to the Chiefs games, even in the Super Bowl. At one point in that Super Bowl, the Bengals had possession of the ball after a Nahuzier intercept.

Starting point is 00:28:35 in the third quarter and you're like, you're actually going to do this. And maybe that belief in buying into the system help propel them. Because it's not like to edit a bunch of players going into 2020 on the defensive side. They got better. They got more cohesive. That unit started to work at peak level. And they were fourth in EPA per play from like 15th in 2021 to fourth in 2022.

Starting point is 00:28:57 Kept that heater going into the playoffs, maybe not as strong, but really good still in 2022, especially against that Bill's team in the divisional round. And it's not so much always the players, you're right, your last point being on Lou. Ken Al Golden achieve that and get these guys to buy in the same way. Players really believe in in Lou at that point. Yeah, I mean, you saw the massive jump, like you said, from middle of the pack, I think it was 18th in 20, 21 and weighted EPA per play from running backs don't matter.

Starting point is 00:29:24 RB's DM, make sure you type that in the correct order, RBSDM.com. we have a garbage time filter here of 3%. So if you look at it at 0%, these are going to look a little bit different. But when you filter out garbage time where the game really isn't in the balance and you look at the weighted EPA per play, which again, more heavily weights

Starting point is 00:29:47 the most important plays in the game when the game is most in the balance, Bengals had the fourth best EPA per play in the league in 2022. That buy-in element, absolutely massive. the the that was year three no that was year two 21 was for lou in a room oh 23 was year three so no well because he was there with with Zach the whole way from 2019 yeah oh 19 20 21 20 yeah okay forgot about one of those years I was only thinking maybe about the Joe borough years remember we were

Starting point is 00:30:21 like fire loo after 2020 that's right it was fire lu halfway through 2021 to be honest yeah yeah yeah and then you get the bottom You get the right guys in the building. Hopefully Al Golden gets this done faster. There's more pressure on Al Golden to get this done faster. There are no more chances, I don't think, after this year. More experience, too? Strong playoff run.

Starting point is 00:30:44 Yeah, there's more experience, but not NFL experience necessarily. Certainly more defensive coordinating experience in general. More coaching experience where he's a head coach in college as well. But they need that buying this year. They need that similar linebacker league that the Bengals got from Jermann Pratt and Logan Wilson in 2021. They need that slot corner spot to get an Eli Apple level performance and be that kind of average baseline player in the slot.

Starting point is 00:31:09 They need Brian Cook in Jordan Battle to not be too far off. And I'm not expecting them to be Jesse Bates leading that safety room with Bob Bell. But they need to not be too far off and the improvements that we're expecting to see from the jump from Gino Stone to Brian Cook as a tackler. it's incredible how much this narrative does exist. And that is not a myth that exists in national media, the tackling difference between those two players. They need the buy-in.

Starting point is 00:31:37 They need that development from Al-Golden. They need that cohesion. And they need the defensive coordinator to feel like he has the right players. The players to feel like they trust what the defensive coordinator is putting them in position to do. And that's how you can get that leap. Now, I wouldn't expect this defense to be the 2022 Bengals. neither. I don't think we're getting there.

Starting point is 00:31:58 You need that proof a year, I think. Yeah, I think when Mina Khans and Nate Tice say, this isn't as good as those years, they're talking about that year. We won't argue with that. That they can be 2021. They can get there. That's on the cards for sure.

Starting point is 00:32:12 And then you get the Al Golden questions that tell you about where the ceiling will be, to me, for the unit. That's going to do it for this episode of the Locktown Bengals podcast, another myth-busting episode where there may be a few more questions that we have on this side of the ball. But a fun conversation, nonetheless, we'll probably circle back to the offense,

Starting point is 00:32:32 maybe some play action, maybe some under-center narratives around the Bengals. We have also asked our Lockdown Bengals Insiders at join subtext.com slash lockdown Bengals for their pet peeve narratives that they're hearing in the national media this week, and we'll see what else happens. Maybe Nick Wright will spout off again

Starting point is 00:32:48 and give us something to talk about a little bit later in the week. But until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. podcast, hootay and have a good.

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